Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
28. Mindfulness Helped Me Focus On The Present- With Patricia de Piccioto
77 Plays5 years ago
Patricia de Picciotto, was born in Hong Kong from Lebanese parents, and raised in Geneva, Switzerland until she graduated from college with a BA in Marketing and Communication. She then spent a couple of years in London to study for my GIA (graduate gemologist) and worked in Jewelry. She later moved and lived in Sao Paulo, Brazil, for ten years, where she met my husband, had three kids and founded a jewelry line, Pasha Joias. She moved to New York a little over five years ago, where she became an art guide in the City.
Life changed drastically when her mother was diagnosed with cancer. She was able to travel back and forth to Brazil several times for months at a time to be by her side for her treatments and be there with her when she died after a two years battle with pancreatic cancer. Since then, Patricia is dedicated to normalizing grief and raise grief consciousness through her @neshamajourney project on Instagram and beyond.
Connect with Patricia: www.instagram.com/neshamajourney
Music: www.oneplanetmusic.com
Production: Carlos Andres Londono
Contact Kendra: www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
IG: www.instagram.com/griefgratitudepodcast
Recommended
Transcript
Life-Altering Health Challenges
00:00:02
Speaker
her immunity will not allow it. She would just not be able to handle any anesthesia. So in two minutes, your world just crumbles. You're like, whoa, how am I able to function after this news? And actually, there's something in your brain that either makes you fight, fight, or freeze. And I think I froze. And I had to freeze because I
00:00:29
Speaker
I had to call my husband, my sisters, my dad, you know, I had to make all these phone calls to tell them the news.
Navigating Grief During Life Changes
00:00:37
Speaker
And then I had to go back to the room and just space my mom looking totally normal.
00:00:53
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:09
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys.
Introduction by Host Kendra Rinaldi
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:32
Speaker
Well, welcome to today's podcast. Today will be just a little different. I usually record these podcasts using an audio format of recording. Today, we're doing this via Zoom because we know how to roll with the punches. Exactly.
00:01:55
Speaker
Right. That's how it is. So today we're doing via Zoom, so be a little different because I'm actually seeing the person I'm speaking. Usually I'm just listening. So anyway, I have the honor of inviting you all to listen to Patricia DiPiqui.
00:02:11
Speaker
Chiotos, am I saying it right? Patricia de Pichiotos story grief journey today and Patricia and I met through Instagram. She reached out and said she normally does these little shares people's stories on her Instagram page and then we just chatted another day and we're just kind of doing this interview now and then we'll hop on and
00:02:37
Speaker
do one on her Instagram, and so sharing our stories with the world. So Patricia, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. So glad that you're here. So tell us a little bit about you.
Patricia's Early Life and Journey
00:02:52
Speaker
I know that I already know a little bit, but I want the listeners to hear a little bit about you, where you grew up and where you live now.
00:03:01
Speaker
So I grew up in Geneva, Switzerland. My parents were both Lebanese. They left Lebanon at the end of the 70s. I was born in Hong Kong because my father was working there. And then they moved to Geneva, Switzerland.
00:03:16
Speaker
When you moved from Hong Kong to Geneva? I was a year old. Okay. So I don't really remember Hong Kong, but I have two older siblings and they do have vivid memories of the years they've spent there. But yeah, so Geneva was my hometown for 20 years. I went to school there. I went to college and then moved to London for a few years. And then I joined my mom to Brazil. She was remarried at that time.
00:03:43
Speaker
to someone in Brazil she had left when I was, I think, 19. And when I was 23, I thought, you know what, before going full on in the professional world, I might as well go to Brazil for six months or a year, learn a new language, a new culture, get some experience. So I moved there in 2005.
Family Life and Move to New York
00:04:07
Speaker
Luckily, like a month into, you know, moving to Brazil, I met my future husband. I found love in mysterious places. I was so happy because my plan was to spend like six months or a year
00:04:23
Speaker
And I ended up spending 10 years. So it was totally unpredictable. And I just stayed because I realized that, you know, they don't want to leave my mom. They don't want to leave my boyfriend. After a year, I was really fluent in Portuguese. I was able to read, to write. So then I started working in jewelry again. And
00:04:43
Speaker
I got married, had my three kids there, and then we moved to New York five years ago in 2015. So that's quite a big change. I tell people, I know the grief story we're going to share has to do with the passing of your mom, but the fact of even moving, there's grief and even those components of those moves. When you're starting your life all over again and leaving something behind.
00:05:08
Speaker
Which one of those transitions in your life do you feel was like one of those that was the hardest when you moved? I think the hardest was when I moved to Brazil because I really didn't speak a word of Portuguese. I found it very hard to find someone who could speak in English or in French. And I had to adapt to a whole new culture, whole new, you know, habits, traditions. So that was a big move.
00:05:36
Speaker
But on the other hand, I had my mom there. And I knew I didn't want to be so far away for so many years. I never expected to spend like a decade in Brazil, but I knew I wanted to spend sometimes with her there. But definitely it was hard to adapt. And then moving from Sao Paulo to New York, that was a decision that me and my husband really wanted to take. And we wanted to raise the kids there.
00:06:05
Speaker
day before literally the day before we hopped on the plane to move to New York, my mom's husband, my stepfather was diagnosed with cancer. So it was heartbreaking because that was really the day I'll always remember the day before we left. We left on a Wednesday night on a Tuesday afternoon. I had organized a party for my kids, like a farewell party for them. And my mother got this phone call and she's like, the doctor just called.
00:06:34
Speaker
We need to go there. He has something to say to Simone, which was her husband. So she left in the middle of the party and a few hours later she calls me and she's like, he needs to be hospitalized tomorrow. That's like an emergency surgery because they found a tumor. So the next day, literally the day of my departure, she spent the day in the hospital with her husband and she just left for a few hours to come say goodbye.
00:07:03
Speaker
And then went back to the hospital. So, you know, it was such a happy decision to move to New York. And all of a sudden there was this cloud over our heads because I didn't want to leave anymore. At that point, I'm like, okay, now that he's safe, now that my mom's going to be, you know, taking care of him.
00:07:20
Speaker
I can't leave, but we had to. And my kids were enrolled in school, you know, like we had rented the apartment, we had sold the apartment in Brazil, like there was no way back. So that was bittersweet because I always wanted to move to New York. You know, this is really something that we thought about and we've planned. And last minute, like literally
00:07:43
Speaker
in the last 24 hours this happened. Yeah, because then you're leaving your mom and your stepdad in this very vulnerable time. And so it's that torn in between kind of emotions for you, like you said, bittersweet.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think also when I left, when my mother left to Brazil, so I was 19, she was getting remarried. She was still young, you know, she was like enjoying life, but all of a sudden, you know, she had me for 10 years. She saw my kids, you know, growing up and it was even harder for her to say goodbye. It was much harder for her to say goodbye that time when I moved to, you know, to New York that when, you know,
00:08:25
Speaker
she went to Brazil and I stayed in Geneva. So all those good vibes, you know, were always, you know, as you say, you have to grieve something that you're leaving behind. And for me, it was not the hardest move because I really wanted to move, but leaving my mom in that situation, knowing that my stepfather was that sick, it was really scary.
00:08:49
Speaker
That is so true. We have to live those little smaller griefs in order to prepare us sometimes for these other major grief changes that happen in our life. And a lot of times, I feel we shelter either ourselves and even our kids from experiencing loss. I was reading something the other day regarding really allowing them to
00:09:18
Speaker
to, for example, if they lost their blankie. Like, I know when my kid lost his first blankie, I bought two extra ones, you know, like, as I was like, I don't want him to, like, lose his blankie again, you know? And I don't want him to go through that pain of, like, if he loses it, not to have it. And, you know, and this is, like, when they were little, but those little things that we even expose our children to, like, moves and things like that, as hard as they are,
00:09:45
Speaker
They do help for other aspects in life, which are much bigger transitions and that we know that are bound to happen, which in everybody's life, death is one of those, right? So the death of a loved one is one of those. But it feels resilience because all these moves that I went through in 30 years,
00:10:06
Speaker
I'm such a chameleon, I feel. If my husband tells me tomorrow, oh, we're moving to that place tomorrow, I think I'm so flexible, right? And my kids too, I think they would adapt easily. You know, it really builds up a certain
00:10:22
Speaker
Um, character character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Resilience is the right word and flexibility and flexibility too. Yeah. Those two words are perfect for this. You're absolutely right. Okay. So now your stepdad gets diagnosed. Your mom is there. You guys are here. Then
Facing Family Health Crises
00:10:43
Speaker
Tell us a little bit what happened. My stepfather got pretty sick and for three years from March, 2015 to July, 2018, he was sick. Like he never had a day where he was cancer free. So for those three years, my mom was her caretaker, but she didn't have us by her side. So it was really all about him all the time.
00:11:11
Speaker
And in December, 2017, that was his last surgery and they kind of close him up and say, there's nothing we can do. It's too far away. The metastasis are in his lung. There's really nothing, you know, nothing left. So December, 2017, that's when, you know, he had to take the decision of not pursuing any treatment or surgery and
00:11:37
Speaker
really surrender to the truth that he's not gonna cure from his cancer. So that was- Sorry to interrupt you. Where was the original tumor found? I think in his colon, in the beginning of this time. So colon and then it had metastasized to the lungs at that point, three years later.
00:12:03
Speaker
So at that point, you know, you have to surrender to the hurtful truth. And then a month later, so January, 2018.
00:12:15
Speaker
My mom, you know, she called me one day and she's like, you know, sorry to give those details. It's like the color of my urine is very dark. And she was always, she always needed a push to go to the doctor. I'm like, you have to go to the doctor, see if it's not an infection. You know, your infection can make you sick and you can have fever. You have to check it out. She went and she did check it out and there was zero infection. She was totally fine. They sent her back home. Three days later, she wakes up.
00:12:45
Speaker
yellow like her tone her skin for yellowish. She goes straight to the doctor again and he's like okay you're going for a PET scan so that was January 11 2018 and January 12 2018 he calls her back early in the morning with the result and he said we found a tumor in your pancreas
00:13:09
Speaker
Luckily, it looks small enough to have surgery. So we're going to schedule surgery for the next week. But imagine the shock of getting these news, like a month after the final diagnosis of my stepfather. And at that time in the winter, there's three hours difference between Brazil and New York. So my sisters are in Switzerland, so that's six hours ahead. And my mother is in Brazil, so that's three hours ahead. And then there's me sleeping.
00:13:37
Speaker
and everyone's calling me, everyone's calling me. And as soon as I woke up and I have to say, I will tell you about this, I still have like WhatsApp anxiety and phone anxiety. You know, I feel like if I don't check my phone, I'm gonna have like a bad news. Oh my gosh.
00:13:53
Speaker
You know, but what you're saying, I'm sorry, and I want you to continue that, but what you're saying right now is something that people that go through a loved one that has gone through, that is going through something, you have that anxiety of the phone, which is a little different than when you hear just a sudden
00:14:12
Speaker
you know when somebody passes away suddenly so there's a different type of grief component that is in that in that slow process that even though you get to be in that process at the same time i felt like for myself being that we share the same thing my mom was passed away from pancreatic cancer is the
00:14:32
Speaker
feeling like you're holding your breath all the time not going when a call oh my gosh okay so you wake up and then I wake up so many missed calls so many so I need to go through the WhatsApp right because I have to open the app I have to see the messages like which messages are my opening first and actually the first one was for my sister and she's like call me we're trying to reach you out the doctor called my mom she has a tumor in her pancreas
00:14:59
Speaker
And I had to reread the message twice because I was so used at that point to get the news from my stepfather having tumors and this and that. Right. And I rewritten like my mom, however my mom is, is, you know, sick, like her husband is sick. She's not sick. So, you know, you have to,
00:15:18
Speaker
to like read and reread the message. And then I don't know, I started crying and then I called my husband and then I tried to call my sister, but I was crying. I didn't know how to call my mom. We were all in shock, in such a shock. That day I spent the day in bed. I couldn't do anything. My husband like canceled all these calls, everything. Cause we are far away. Imagine, so my sister's in Switzerland. I'm in New York. My mom is in Brazil getting these news.
00:15:44
Speaker
we're waiting on the doctor to schedule the surgery and it was only the next day that this you know the doctor was able to schedule the surgery and he's like okay you're you're you're getting prepped on wednesday i think you're getting the surgery on thursday and i flew that weekend and i just went to brazil for as long as it was needed i didn't even know how long she was going to stay in the hospital like how
00:16:08
Speaker
she would recover from the surgery, how she would go back home. But it's those moments where you just book a ticket and leave. There's nothing else, you know, you can do. And also I'm the only one of my siblings who speaks Portuguese. So I always had this responsibility of taking care of all the medical, you know, legal
00:16:30
Speaker
Are you the youngest? And decisions. I'm the youngest. Yeah. But you have to take the responsibility of being the oldest one. I was able to speak to the doctor when she spent those three weeks in the hospital. I was the one talking to the nurses. So I slept with her at the hospital because she needed anything. Like I was the only one who was able to talk to the nurses, talk to the doctor, you know, be the bridge between her and the medical staff. So,
00:16:59
Speaker
even when her husband was sick.
Taking Charge in Mother's Caregiving
00:17:01
Speaker
And I think I always had this responsibility of being the one in charge of my mom, none of my mom, but helping her in the decision and talking to, as I said, doctors, lawyer, insurance, I always have her with.
00:17:17
Speaker
But that's because you were also living, you had been living in Brazil, you created that other dynamic that was different than the one of your sisters just because of also you having been the one to move there. The language, the aspect that you kind of knew the ins and outs, you knew her husband probably better than your sisters because you lived in the same place. So you helped her with those decisions and now you're helping her with this. Did the kids stay, was it only you that flew in
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah. They stayed in the States. The three kids. And I'm like, I don't know when I'm coming back. I am coming back, but I really don't know when I'm coming back. Cause at that point we just knew that she had to go through a major surgery, but we didn't know how long she would stay in the ICU, how long she would stay in the hospital. You know, so.
00:18:06
Speaker
big question mark and there's always this thing my husband is from Sao Paulo so he really he needs to you know come and work from there he can so there's always this thing about like I'm leaving and if you have to join me then you know you'll come and just take the kids out of school and it actually happened when my mother passed when the doctors told us that it was the end I told my husband you have to come so you know we pulled the kids out of school and he came and he worked from
00:18:36
Speaker
from Brazil. What you're saying there is something that I feel a lot of people don't have sometimes that flexibility, right? No. So the blessing of one, the fact that you were able to travel, the blessing that your husband could work from anywhere so that that way you could be there at the moment. I know that. What a blessing.
00:19:02
Speaker
privilege and the blessing of being able to book a ticket every time, you know, my mother needed me. I also worked for myself at that point because I was doing art tours. So I had my own schedule. I was very flexible. I could, you know, really work the weeks I was in New York and then the weeks I needed to be in Sao Paulo. I wasn't working and the flexibility of my husband being able to work, you know, in both cities. So definitely.
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah, those are like the things. And it helped me because for two years between January 2018 and November 2019, I think I've spent 15 to 16 weeks each year in Brazil. Wow. The literally like quarter of the year. Now take us to the moment in which then your mom had her surgery.
00:19:51
Speaker
Your mom had the surgery. She had that removed. She then was fine. She did a few chemo treatments or like tell us because something happened. The tumor was removed and it was a huge success. And they were very happy of the way, you know, she was getting better, being able to stand up because like those surgery, you know, with a huge scar, it's even hard to
00:20:20
Speaker
put one step in front of the other. She was doing great. She came back home after three weeks. She was not independent at that time, but she could stand up. She could walk. She could do a few things on her own, you know? And she went through just a few chemo.
00:20:40
Speaker
not so many, you know, side effects. She didn't lose her hair at that time. She didn't have any nose yet. She was, she was okay. And then she was in remission for a few months. But those few months where she was, you know, chemo free and tumor free, that's when her husband got terminally ill. And that was between, you know, May and July.
00:21:06
Speaker
It was like a ping pong. It was like a ping pong match. It was like he was sick. She was taking care of him and she was really sick. He was taking care of her and then she's in remission and then he gets sick. And then he gets terminally ill. So as I said, since December, we're waiting on that moment to happen, you know? And we went to Brazil again many times, but in July, I think beginning of July and of June,
00:21:34
Speaker
he was really at that point where he can hardly breathe, he can hardly walk, and he didn't want to go to the hospital, he wanted to spend the last days at home. But the last week, my mother was telling me he's been falling. He's been falling. He cannot stand up. He stands up, he falls, but he doesn't want to help. So the situation in the last days, the last week, was very complicated.
00:22:01
Speaker
Same thing, like I took a plane, went to Brazil and I was like, okay, if you need help with him, I'm going to help you, you know, because if he's not accepting any help of anyone else, then, you know, someone needs to help my mom. And at that point I got there, he was very speaking, very breathing. And the doctor told my mom, you should, you should bring him to the hospital. But he didn't want to, you know, like he wanted to be home.
00:22:28
Speaker
And the last two days I told my, my mom, he wants it. He doesn't want it. We're taking him to the hospital. It's too big of a responsibility to have him in the last days at home and the pain and you know, cause you needed to be able to swallow. So how can you give more thin to someone who cannot swallow? So it was just too complicated. And you know, he went to the hospital and the last two days we were, you know, with him 21st
00:22:56
Speaker
yeah 24 hours a day until his last breath so i was with him and with my mom in the final moments and then i stayed another four weeks with my mom after his passing because she needed to go through you know the burial
Supporting Family in Final Moments
00:23:14
Speaker
the funeral the week of prayers that were jewish so we stayed shiva for a week and then just all the legal you know
00:23:22
Speaker
things you have to go through, lawyers, insurance, doctors, paperwork, all that stuff. So I stayed with her those five weeks, a week before his passing and then four weeks after. So I was really trying to, you know, to do as much as I could to help her at that point. That is so commendable. And just again, like, that is so beautiful that you were able to be there not only for his passing, but also for her.
00:23:51
Speaker
um now in those in those moments like while he was sick the conversation about what he like the conversation about death come up and about wishes in terms of what he wanted for example so no conversation with him nothing okay how about how about with your mom i was the one pushing my mama was like try to have this conversation because like he doesn't want to speak about it
00:24:17
Speaker
It's not even for denial. It was a mix of superstition, of culture, of just not being a person that opens up about fears and anxiety, and maybe a little bit of denial.
00:24:32
Speaker
Now how about something very strong about that in our culture and you know we're Jewish we're Middle Eastern and you don't talk too much about that because you know it might happen and you don't want to yeah you don't want to jinx it yeah it's like you were you're bringing it's as if you're bringing it about us but the reality is that we all are gonna die right
00:24:51
Speaker
so it's like it's that thing and that's the reason I know and we'll get to this part too of what what you're doing now in your own grieving process now but um of bringing these conversations more to talking when we are healthy about that and our wishes so that
00:25:08
Speaker
It doesn't become so taboo. People create a birth story, right? They want like a birth plan. You're like, oh, so when I have my child, I would like this and I want this midwife and I want this and I want my husband to be there and I want that. And then we're going to play music in the background. Okay. Maybe on that particular day, it doesn't go as planned.
00:25:28
Speaker
That's fine. But you had some idea of what you wanted your birth to be, but it is just so opposite to talk about how we want sickness. Like you don't even pronounce the word cancer. You just don't.
00:25:46
Speaker
tell other people that you're sick or try to hide it. You try to make it go away by hiding it, but it's just not going away. So I was pushing my mom to have the conversation. She was like, I'm not able to have this conversation, even for her. I'm not, I'm not even putting this on my stepfather because he didn't want to tell. She didn't want to, she didn't want to, you know, confront the reality that it can happen, you know, that it's really happening. So they were both kind of,
00:26:15
Speaker
Let's say in denial, but it was a mix of denial and superstition. Okay. Now he passes away. You stay there for four weeks, go back to New York and then tell us then what started happening then with your mom's health a little bit. And also in this time, I want to know too, what were you doing to cope with all these aspects of grief? Like you knew Simone Simon, Simon pretty well.
00:26:45
Speaker
Give me a second. My dog keeps on wanting to go. She wants to, she comes in, she comes out, she comes in, she comes out of the bedroom. She's like, so I just, the door was too close. She was just here when I was talking. Yeah. So, um, I was worried for my mom at that time. Like I, yes, I was grieving him.
00:27:11
Speaker
But also I was worried for my mom as a new widow with this, you know, cancer on her mind because she had to go through her scans every three months. So.
00:27:26
Speaker
I mean, we knew when the doctor told us, like, there's always a possibility that it can come back. It's such an aggressive cancer, you know, you're not fully in remission. You're just having, you know, a few months off to, you know, to try to cope with the other drama that is, I really feel like she got those few weeks, you know, off just to be able to cope with, with the loss. But,
00:27:51
Speaker
in November. So she came to New York. That was her last trip to New York. She came to New York in October and she had to go back to Brazil because her scan was scheduled for November 1st or November 2nd, 2018. She had the best time in New York that week. It was hard because as I said, she was a widow, but we were really trying to make her feel, you know,
00:28:17
Speaker
That's the thing you do when someone is grieving. You try to make them forget about the loss, try to make them feel better. You're just trying your best to be around the person and support her. She really had a great time, a great trip with the kids. Halloween, she got dressed up. I'll have those pictures forever of my mom's last Halloween.
00:28:40
Speaker
she went back and we were sure but we were really sure that she was just going back for routine scan and she was planning to go to Switzerland, so after the trip in New York she was planning to go to Switzerland to see my sisters for the winter season for the winter break so we really thought and we had that hope that the scan was just a routine scan and then the scan result came back and the tumor came back
00:29:07
Speaker
So I had to leave again. I went to Sao Paulo, talked to the doctor, what's the next step? What are we doing?
Difficult Treatment Decisions
00:29:14
Speaker
She was just a widow, and now she had to deal with cancer all over again. And also the chemo he was offering that time had the side effect of hair loss. And that was the first time she was even thinking about hair loss. Because I don't know, somehow it makes it more
00:29:36
Speaker
real you know like you see it every day and I remember on that trip in November we went to get her a week so that was also tough but I went with her and we chose the week and you know she tried it on and did the highlight change the color and then she started her chemo and then she went through chemo from November to June three different types of chemo and
00:30:06
Speaker
Even if the tumor in her pancreas was shrinking in June, on June 26, 2019, she got the result of one of the scans because it was every two, three months, and they say she had metastasis in her liver. And at that point, it's just, you know, the news that you don't want to get because you can still keep your hope up, you know, when it's about the tumor, but then metastasis in the liver, that's
00:30:36
Speaker
That's just bad news. And I remember that day. It was June 26. I was dropping my kids to sleep away camp. So I was near the buses. The kids were in the buses. I was able to say goodbye to the kids. They were in the bus, each one in a bus. So I was trying to wave to one, to wave to the other. Then the phone rang and it was my mom.
00:30:56
Speaker
And she told me, I have this metastasis in the liver. So I started crying. I remember there's a dad that came and he's like, don't worry, your kids will be crying. So people thought I was crying after, but my sunglasses, people thought I was crying because my kids were leaving and I just got this news. And then I totally forgot about the kids. I'm like, I don't even know that my kids are on the bus. That's it, they're gone, they're up to camp. I was just focused on the news and it was,
00:31:25
Speaker
such a shock because once again, you know, you always keep your hopes up and you're, you know, you want a good result from the scan. You want the tumor to shrink. You want to have the hope that even if she has to live with this, with this treatment, it's going to last a little longer. But when you have this news, you know, it's how much hope can you have? But we, you know, we still try.
00:31:53
Speaker
And at that point, her doctor and another doctor in New York told her about this treatment, which was really something that was not common. And it was experimental. And she was like, okay, I'm going for this. It was impossible for her in June.
00:32:15
Speaker
to take the decision that her husband took, like a year and a half before. Like, okay, there's no more treatment. Like, I'm not trying anything anymore. I'm just going to wait. It wasn't in her character to accept it. Like, she was really going to fight. So we spoke to the doctor in Brazil, the doctor in New York, and they were like, okay, let's try. That's really the last hope, but it could work, you know? So once again, we're all hopeful and
00:32:45
Speaker
you know, waiting for this treatment. So the treatment had to be shipped, I think, from the States to Brazil. It was not available in Brazil. So we got that treatment. I went to Brazil. It was August. And she was OK for the first days after the treatment. And then she got a major infection on top because her immunity was so low because of that treatment. And she got this major infection on top of her treatment, on top of her immunity that was super low. And that's it.
00:33:15
Speaker
went downhill from that moment on. And she spent a month in the hospital, which was, you know, that was the turning point. Like she was fine, even with chemo, even with all the news, you know, she was still with a normal appearance. She had her week, but she looked great. She was hopeful. She wanted to leave. At that point, after a month in the hospital, she was a different person. She had lost so much weight. She had lost, you know,
00:33:45
Speaker
autonomy. She had no more strength. She had no more appetite. So that's what that was when you know we really looked at her like a sick person for those year and a half when she was you know battling with cancer. She was normal like we knew she was having chemo but she looked normal she lived normally she she was fine but at that point on that's it that was downhill and then it was
00:34:14
Speaker
That was September then. So August, sorry, August through September that she was in the hospital. Yeah. August to September. Then she came back home for a little bit. Were you in Brazil still? Were you still in Brazil? At that point, I'm like, I'm, I think I'm more in Brazil than in New York. Like, okay. I'm basically in Brazil and.
00:34:34
Speaker
I had to come back for back to school for the kids, but then I left the next week and then I came back and then I left for Yom Kippur. I was in Brazil and my kids were able to come because they had a break in October. My mom was at home at that time. I think the doctor sent her home for a few weeks, but she could barely, you know, she could barely walk. She still needed help for everything.
00:35:01
Speaker
And then I remember my sister was in Brazil and she left on a Sunday night, Sunday, October 27th, Monday, October 28th. My mom is really not feeling well. And the doctor tell her, come to the hospital right now. And they made us, she had another scan and they saw water in her lung.
00:35:27
Speaker
And at that point, my sister is in a plane because it's an overnight flight. It's still early morning for me. So one more, you know, situation where I wake up and my mom is going to the hospital in emergency.
Dealing with Final Prognosis
00:35:43
Speaker
It's like 7.30 in New York. My sister is not reachable because she's in a plane. And once again, I rush and I leave that same night and she just spent the rest of the time and
00:35:56
Speaker
in the hospital until she passed. Were you able to be there when she passed away? From that day on, I was with her. Were you there the day she passed away? Yes. I was sleeping in the hospital. So I was there. And that was October 28th when she was hospitalized again. October 31st, the doctor sees me in the hallway and I was still wearing my PJ because I was sleeping in the hospital and I was like, bear food.
00:36:26
Speaker
in my pj and he wanted to come in the room and i'm like she's sleeping can you you know is it important and he's like no actually i wanted to talk to you and just like this you know i will never forget that scene it's like in a movie just like this in front of the door like it looked like an er episode you know he just announced me
00:36:49
Speaker
We've got the results. There's nothing else they can do. She's way too weak now. The infection has spread. The metastasis has spread. She cannot undergo any treatment or surgery. Her immunity will not allow it. She would just not be able to handle any anesthesia. So in two minutes, your world just crumbles. You're like, whoa, how am I able to
00:37:20
Speaker
function after this news. And actually there's something in your brain that, you know, either make you fight, fight or freeze. And I think I froze and I had to freeze because I had to call my husband, my sisters, my dad, you know, I had to make all these phone calls to tell them the news. And then I had to go back to the room and just space my mom looking totally normal because I asked the doctor and I'm like, you're the doctor. You're telling her I'm not, I'm not going through this. I'm not telling her.
00:37:50
Speaker
that it's over and he's like okay I'll come back tomorrow and I'll tell her the news so for 24 hours I was acting as if nothing had happened you know I was I was just waiting for the doctor to announce it to my mom because I didn't have you know the courage and I don't think it was my you know my responsibility to announce her I mean
00:38:16
Speaker
My responsibility was to support her, but to tell her this, I think he needed to do it. So the next day he comes with a psychology and my mom requests that I'm present. And I'm like, I know what, you know, I know what he's going to say and I don't want to be here, but she wants me here. So I will never forget just today is October 31st and November 1st.
00:38:42
Speaker
It was just, you know, the minute where your world shifts and a new reality start to, you know, sink in because you need to prepare. And I think this is where the anticipatory grief starts. You need to prepare yourself for a world without her.
00:39:03
Speaker
But actually nothing prepares you because I was, you know, at that point I was trying to, you know, Google life after loss, mother loss, breathe. I was on Amazon, you know, trying to buy books and I was, you know, looking for podcasts, but actually nothing really prepares you for that.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, because even if you read things, nobody's experience is going to be exactly what you're living. It's the absence. It's like you can't prepare yourself, but you're still here. It's the absence. It's not being able to see her, to talk to her, to
00:39:44
Speaker
Even the last days where she was not responsive from Tuesday to Friday, I was still in the room 24-7 and I was in the hospital. She was still there. She was unconscious, but she was there. So even those days where I was not able to interact with her,
00:40:15
Speaker
When you were talking about the October 31st and then November 1st, I was thinking of how you had just described her being in New York just a year before for Halloween and all those pictures and those moments. So here's a whole year later that it looks completely different, same month, same year, very
00:40:20
Speaker
I was still able to
00:40:35
Speaker
opposite emotions going on. Crazy. That's exactly what I thought. It's crazy what can happen in a year. And then the doctor, you ruined Halloween for me. Every year, for me, October 31st is the day that the doctor announced me that my mom was going to die.
00:40:55
Speaker
And it is- I couldn't think about it for a week anymore, you know? Right, but it's also because it's so recent that still relating to that is what your mind goes to. But I can say that eventually it may kind of start shifting. For my family, my dad's birthday is December 20th. My sister passed away December 17th. Her burial was December 20th.
00:41:19
Speaker
So for many years, my dad would be like, why were we celebrating? Today is the day she was buried. You're like, we're like, she didn't die today. This is your birthday, too. You know, yes, she was buried on your birth. You know, so it does weigh for, you know, sometimes those kind of things when they happen. But it will dissipate a little bit as you start experiencing more October 31st that end up filling you with joy.
00:41:49
Speaker
um and and then that that memory will just become a little bit more faint in the background of the of the of the doctor telling you the the final something something special happened the next day because I was on instagram and then I saw
00:42:07
Speaker
a very very very good childhood friend of mine had moved to Mexico and that it was November 1st so it was Dia de los Mortos and she had just recently lost her aunt to cancer her aunt was not Mexican she was not Mexican but because she was living there she's like you know what I'm just gonna honor you know my aunt on this day and you know I
00:42:31
Speaker
texted her and I'm like you know it's really you have no idea how impactful was your post because as I said now October 31st and November 1st were the bad news you know the end of the world news and now maybe eventually as you said I'll be able to shift it and be a day of remembrance
00:42:54
Speaker
of my mom and of her passing. So I don't know if it's going to happen this year, but my friend was able to shift and celebrate her on that day. Yeah. It's having grace and patience. Give me one second. My daughter just started clarinet lesson. Hold on.
00:43:21
Speaker
um this is one thing I forgot I forgot that I my daughter now that they're in school um can you hear the clarinet no did you hear okay I hope the microphone doesn't pick it up but the the computer microphone so now it's like I could hear it in the background like oh no because now that they're in school she now has clarinet during her band class but at home you know so
00:43:43
Speaker
So you have to hear everything, yeah. Yes, but now I have to know, okay, what time is it? So that I know, okay, now I'll know. I can't plan recording during her band class. But I can't hear anything. Okay, good, good. So what I was going to say is that, yeah, having grace and patience with ourselves and those processes, that it doesn't just happen overnight, you know, it doesn't.
00:44:06
Speaker
For some people their journey is a little bit quicker and some it's harder. So just having grace. So your mom passed away. I want to know more if you can share with the listeners or viewers, whichever method we share this, what are some of the things you've done in this process
00:44:26
Speaker
of your grieving process because it hasn't even been a year yet, Patricia. So you starting the Instagram account was one of those things. So tell us a little bit about that aspect of your grief. So when my mother passed away, I was in a meditation group that I used to see every week. That helped me a lot because I started meditating when
00:44:49
Speaker
my mother was sick and when my stepfather was getting really sick like that was the point I think around May 2018 where I had so much so much anxiety because I was like whoa my mom is sick he's getting sicker and sicker that means she's gonna be a widow very soon you know how do I handle this with the distance and being in New York it helped me so much I had to really
00:45:13
Speaker
you know, stop thinking about the future. Like the mindfulness really helped me to focus on the present. At that point, I realized that there's nothing you can plan, you know, like one day I was like planning for my birthday. The following morning, I know that my mom has a tumor in her pancreas. Same for, you know, you're hopeful that this surgery, you know,
00:45:40
Speaker
is gonna cure her and then two days later, oh no, but the result came back and it has spread. So at that point I realized there's nothing I can claim. So mindfulness helped me to just focus on the present. I couldn't, you know, let my mind go too far in the future. Like how it's gonna be life without her, how it's gonna be, you know, my kid's graduation without her, how it's gonna be my 50th birthday with her, whatever, you know,
00:46:08
Speaker
So mindfulness reading on a daily basis, just like gratitude exercises and meditation have helped me just focus on the day or maybe the week, but not, you know, not more than this because otherwise your mind and your fears can take you in such a dark place. Cause also when you lose someone, you kind of face your own mortality, right? Absolutely. Yeah.
00:46:32
Speaker
Do I really want to think about something that happened to me? Who's going to take care of my kids? I don't want to go there. And it can happen. But I don't want to go there. So all the mindfulness that I do is really to try to bring me back to right now, to the present, or to just this period of my life, not too far away. This helped me a lot. But I think I've just respected myself at the beginning. I came back to New York.
00:46:59
Speaker
I remember there was a lunch that I organized at synagogue in memory of my mom and at the very last second I'm like, I'm not going. I told my husband, you go with the kids. I'm not able to face 40, 50, 60 people.
00:47:14
Speaker
You know, hearing one more, I'm sorry, my condolences, I just cannot do it. So I think at the beginning, I was very respectful of my space, you know, only allowing myself to see the few very intimate friends I wanted to see and not putting myself in the situation where you have to smile or you have to listen to small talk. And actually this lasted for a long time.
00:47:38
Speaker
I think the first time I was able to go back to school, to my kids' school was end of January or February, you know, maybe two, three months after my mother packed because I didn't want to see people. I didn't want to go through small talks. I didn't want to hear about their, you know, Christmas break or their favorite break. I just didn't want that. So I was very good at respecting my pace, my space, myself, and then COVID started. And that's like a whole other story because I was
00:48:08
Speaker
happy to be home but like really like when it started I was like oh my god this is a blessing in disguise you know without obviously knowing about the proportion it was going to take and all the depth but I'm like oh finally I can like not go to work and be home and not have to go to school and not have to say no to all the lunch dinners and social and professional you know obligations you have so I'm just home with myself with my family and I needed that but then it starts being very long
00:48:38
Speaker
Because not only you're alone and you're isolated and my family is 10,000 miles away and I cannot travel because of the travel bans, but also COVID is on everyone's mind. So there's nothing else people are talking about. So you're slowly, but surely forgotten, you know, and no one, you know, people just stop checking on you. They stop asking about you, about your grief. And it really became a very isolated place for me.
00:49:07
Speaker
And I ended up joining a group online on Facebook. So at first it was great, you know, was able to, you know, to connect with other motherless daughters or, you know, people who went through
00:49:22
Speaker
similar losses, you know, apparent loss, father loss or mother loss, then it became overwhelming. The group had 50,000 people, there were just too many tragedy and losses, and it was hard for me to deal with my grief and with so many people's grief.
00:49:40
Speaker
so i just started this page and at the beginning for like a month i was posting but it wasn't even public it was just like me and my instagram your own way yeah it's kind of like your as it was your journal like your journal i just wanted to post about my mom i wanted to advance uh i was posting in that online group on facebook but
00:50:01
Speaker
it was just too much. There were just too many people. So like, I'm just going to post there. And also want to separate myself from my professional Instagram. And I didn't want to see what was happening in other people's life. I didn't want to see what was happening in the museums. Anyway, everyone was on lockdown. So I wanted like a new start with accounts that I would follow that would be
00:50:24
Speaker
only about grief. Like this is what I needed at that point. I needed to connect with people. I needed to share my story. I needed to find an online support because I was not getting a physical support. And a few weeks later, I was like, okay, let's, you know, let me try to make the account public. And I did. And I even announced on my other Instagram, my professional one that I was, you know, taking a time off. Anyway, I'm not able to work for,
00:50:54
Speaker
maybe another year now.
00:50:57
Speaker
So I was going to focus on the online grief community and it really started like this, you know, like posting about my mom, you know, putting some quotes. I never planned about, you know, having lives or talking to other people, but it happened naturally because naturally you DM someone, then you chat with someone, then you realize that, oh, that person loves her mom two days before me. Oh, this happened, that happened.
00:51:26
Speaker
And organically, you're starting to listen to other people's stories, and it's healing for me to listen to them, but it's also healing for them to share. And at that point, I realized that sharing your story is not for, you know, the recognition on social media or for gratification. It's really to help someone else. And it started with a podcast that I had done with a therapist. She wanted to, you know, to interview me about grief and loss.
00:51:56
Speaker
And then I had such a feedback, even from, you know, a friend of mine who never went through us, but they were like, Oh, this is so eyeopening to know how to deal with someone who's grieving. So then with that same therapist, I, you know, we ended up scheduling a line to have the, you know, the feedback from, from the podcast and to answer more questions. And it just started. And then I was like, you know what, I want to listen to your story and listen to your story. And I was just,
00:52:25
Speaker
reaching out to accounts that were so helpful for me, but then also people started reaching out to me. I'd like to talk about the loss of my dad. I'd like to talk about the loss of...
Sharing Grief Stories to Connect
00:52:40
Speaker
I was just open to hear about any losses. I think that every loss is unique, every group is unique, but there is a common thread. Somehow you'll always be able to understand
00:52:54
Speaker
what the other one is going through. Even though you're not doing for the same loss, you do understand, you know, the pain and also the fact that grief is forever. And you're not going to judge that person because that person is still in pain after like 12 years, 18 years, 24 years. And now I've done, I think over 25 or 26 lives. I've been doing, you know, many podcasts.
00:53:18
Speaker
And I just needed that it's therapy for me to talk about my mom every day. Like I want to talk about my mom every day, but I have no one with who I can talk about her. If it's not my Instagram, exactly. I'm here, but on my every day's life, you know, I see people, they don't ask me like, how are you? How are you feeling? Like, you know, so definitely it was, it started as a therapy. It started as a need to talk about my mom. Then it's.
00:53:46
Speaker
ended up being a way to share my story and then to listen to other people's story and then just give a platform. So listeners, you know, who might not have the gut to talk about their grief or who might not want to have an Instagram just for this, they're still able to listen or to read those quotes and it makes, you know, it just makes them feel better.
00:54:09
Speaker
And when I realized I was helping even one person and then two person and three person, and I was getting the feedback, I just kept going. And now it's been three months and I don't know where it's going, but then I continue sharing stories because it's helping people around us.
00:54:25
Speaker
And that's what it's about. And I mean, that's how we connected. It was you reaching out and seeing if I could share my story in your account and then vice versa. And I think that you are so righty, but even if it's one person that feels accompaniment in that process and doesn't feel alone, I mean, I say that in the intro of this podcast. I created this podcast so that people that are going through grief
00:54:50
Speaker
can feel like they're not the only ones going through that, that they can relate to somebody else's grief. And like you said, it's not that we can completely, fully say, oh, I know exactly what you're going through. No, I have a glimpse of what you're going through because I went through something similar. My mom passed away from pancreatic cancer. Your mom passed away from pancreatic cancer. I know what it is to
00:55:15
Speaker
not be able to like turn off the phone at night because you don't know when you're going to get a call, you know, waiting to scan results and seeing the person getting so sick at the end. That's what I'm saying. Every loss is unique, but there is a common thread and we can still, you know, understand and have compassion for each other. And it's this empathy that lacks from people who haven't been through loss and they really try to understand, but they don't.
00:55:45
Speaker
That's why very early on people maybe stop checking on you or there's, they stop, you know, asking about your grief process or how you're feeling. And it's really that lonely place that made me want to have this platform. Well, the great thing is that you did something that you knew you needed for your own grief journey and that in that process you realized that it was able to help others.
00:56:12
Speaker
And so that's the gratitude component and the growth that comes from that because then you found this other community of people in your grief journey that you would have not found otherwise had you not been going through something yourself. So it just opened up your circle of friendship and community to be a little bit different. And again, when we're grateful for certain things, it doesn't mean we wish
00:56:39
Speaker
that we're happy that we lost ourselves. That's not what it means when we find gratitude. It's just being grateful for the fact that we are able to wake up every day, that still remembering our loved ones in our heart and being able to share their story in one way or another and also being able to help others that are going through their journey.
00:57:02
Speaker
So before we finish off, Patricia, let people know how it is that they can find you on Instagram so that they can... So my Instagram is NeshamaJourney, so it's N-E-S-H-A-M-A Journey. And Neshama meets soul in Hebrew. And after my mother passed, I realized that we could still have a connection between our souls.
00:57:27
Speaker
We're on, you know, on our own journey. I'm sure her soul has her own journey now in the afterlife. And my soul journey is still here in this realm, but there's still a connection and there will always be a connection. So the back about the side.
00:57:45
Speaker
I love that and I will put it on the show notes too. I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for sharing your story. One thing, what is your mom's name? Shelly. Shelly. Shelly.
00:58:02
Speaker
How do you know Shelly? S-H-E-L-L-Y. Shelly. Oh yeah, Shelly. Yeah, Shelly. Okay, Shelly. Shelly, okay. Just because I know we talk about our momma and then we forget the name. There was a name, so Shelly. Thank you for Shelly also for
00:58:17
Speaker
bringing you to this world as well and the person that you are and that even though she's passed on, she gave you certain tools even in the time that she was alive to be able to give you that gift of being able to breathe and touch grace as well and give to others. So thank you to her as well. Thank you so much, Kendra. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
00:58:49
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:59:17
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.