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The Return of Wild Willy.
53 Plays2 years ago
Wild Willy is back. It's been a long time since episode 7 of season 1. We've been meaning to have Will back on for a long time considering all of the audio issues we had the first time he joined us. His episode is one of our most popular episodes of all time. Don't miss this one.
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Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:21
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show.
00:00:25
Speaker
I'm going to just go ahead and plug our sponsor now at the beginning of the show. I want to thank our sponsor, Hayfla. Hayfla offers a wide range of products and solutions for the woodworking and furniture making industries from hinges and drawer slides to connectors and dowels, sandpaper, wood glue, shop carts, and everything in between. Exclusive product lines such as looks, LED lighting, and Slido door hardware ensure that every project you create is built to last. Learn more at hayfla.com. Yeah. Check them out. They're up and running.
00:00:53
Speaker
back from their data breach. We actually were on like six or seven boxes from Hayflow this week.
Guest Reintroduction and Background
00:01:01
Speaker
Uh, we want to welcome back a guest from episode seven. Yeah, that's a long time ago. This is 25 a season three. Oh wow. Yeah. So we're 129 episodes in. Yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker
We have William Fagin. Fagin, yes. Fagin. It's actually Fagin. No, it's Will Fagin. William Robert Fagin II. William Robert Fagin? Yes. I'm Robert William. I'm named after my grandfather.
00:01:36
Speaker
Protestant minister. Oh, wow. And I have nothing to do with religion. So I guess, uh, how do we start? Yeah.
Living and Working Environment
00:01:49
Speaker
You want to tell us where you've been for the last, uh, two years? Yeah. I think, I mean, when I first was here, I think you had just moved to New Hope area and I'm still, I'm in Lambertville now. It's on the Jersey side of the Delaware river. Um, just, I'm really into it out there. I love it out there.
00:02:06
Speaker
it's a nice area it really is man it really is it's like the mix of farm to you know small town vibe with the artsy town there right on the river and there's a couple of those towns over there you ever go to golden nugget
00:02:22
Speaker
I do actually. One of my, that place is amazing. Yeah. I have like probably at least 10 things in my house from Golden Nugget, like early morning, Saturday morning. Big fleam walker, right? Yeah. I think we, we might've talked about on the podcast before, um, like when we went out to go see Steve, like Sunday with well known for having a lot of good, like all the, all the antique dealers going there.
Crafting Techniques and Workshop Experience
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, because you're, you know, right in that area, Lambertville, New Hope, it's. Yeah. And one of my buddies is like, has a store in town and he's kind of grown up going there, finding stuff, bringing it to the store, like refurbishing it or whatever. Objects, all that stuff.
00:03:05
Speaker
So, yeah, I've been out there, the shop's out there, it's in Percocie, PA, and I share a shop with an amazing company called Cider Press, Woodworks. Owner is Brad Sullivan, he's my homie. Yeah, it's really just an amazing place for me, honestly.
00:03:23
Speaker
Big shop? It's a huge shop. It's a big millwork shop. They do all the millwork for Soho House and Rockwell Group, and they make the furniture for Roman and Williams Guild, which is a major accomplishment for a woodworking company. Very big clients, very hip stuff that they build.
00:03:46
Speaker
It's a cool environment to be in on a daily basis, honestly, becoming quite good friends with a bunch of the people that work there and just, you know, seeing the ins and outs of their, the way that their world works compared to mine, compared to how they both work around the same way. Just like a very cool thing. And it's almost like I'm in, I'm in school or like, it's like a mentorship program or something like that. But like, we're all friends and we all kind of do the same thing. So we all like, we get to share war stories and,
00:04:13
Speaker
You know, it's cool to see how all their stuff gets built. They see how
TV Experience and Woodworking Projects
00:04:17
Speaker
my stuff gets built. I do things a little bit differently than them. They get, they have a lot of CNC work that goes into their product and I'm not quite there yet. So I'm doing a lot of handwork and carving and stuff that they don't get to do. So like some of the guys will come over and we'll talk about that. And so it's cool being surrounded by the 20, maybe 15 to 20 amazing crafts people all the time. Yeah. It's awesome.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, you get to, you know, draw from each other's experiences, but you're working on separate things too. So you're not, you're not exactly, you know, getting each other's way. Yeah. And there's no like ego bullshit going on. It's just like
00:04:56
Speaker
A lot of the older guys are really cool and have seen it all. One guy was telling me he had a lathe that was run by these straps and the motor was outside the building and I think they extended it so they could turn 20 foot long columns for one of the schools in Philly. I think it was Temple maybe. But just a lot of cool shit. I'm into the history obviously.
00:05:22
Speaker
kind of know that, but that's a rich environment. What's that? That's a rich environment. It's super rich. Yeah. And there's a lot of cool, just talented, just amazing dudes that, you know, talented at always, you know, um, the computer stuff that I'm not into at all, but I watch, you know, that's, you know, and that's another thing I do with Jeff here is that I send him my drawings and stuff, but like when we were doing the TV show, which also happened right before I was on the podcast, but I wasn't able to talk about it.
00:05:50
Speaker
We did the TV show and my buddy Chris bro is actually an amazing CNC programmer. What was the name of it for people? It's called Ellen's next design challenge on what? HBO max on HBO max still up there. It's pretty fun. But then you guys won. We did win. Yes, I was Mark grads assistant and we won
00:06:11
Speaker
And then he went on to L.A. and then he did a whole collection with another group of craftspeople over there. And I think they had like a week to make five to seven pieces, I believe it was. So can you imagine that? We've done that not willingly. Yeah, I've done it like two o'clock in the fucking morning. Like that Bankette.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah. What happened? Because you had to rebuild it? Yeah, that was that one. Oh yeah, you made that angle. We put it in the bank. Yeah, it looks right. A foot off of the wall. I was like, oh god. That was quite the sinking feeling. Those clients just referred us to a friend, too. Well, so there you go. I've actually had that happen, too, where I totally blew it on something that I made up for it. And then I got referred to like a major job through those people. So you know what?
00:06:59
Speaker
We're like, yeah, do you want like, you, you could just have this bank. Yeah. I don't know. You know, somebody, I know anybody that's got this angle. We gave it to our buddy Keith and he like, he, he has a 45 degree bay window, but it was smaller. So he like cut it in half and like joined it back together. Yeah. He did a pretty good job of it too. Yeah. As long as it's painted, you can hide it.
00:07:19
Speaker
Well, it was it was stained red oak, which actually probably easier. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of which, Keith, you got to add those pieces on that you've been procrastinating. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know all about procrastinating. Yeah. So what do you want to talk about? Well, I got a couple of questions. We don't have to do them. I mean, they're they're nothing spectacular.
00:07:46
Speaker
Honestly, we could talk about anything. We were just telling you how we did Amazon reviews last week. Yeah. I was, what was I thinking about talking about? You posted something about Thos Moser, Thomas Moser, I guess. Was it you comparing, like what you were, you're talking about what you wanted as a dream or a vision for
Vision for Woodworking Business
00:08:06
Speaker
yourself. Yeah. I was on a podcast called Maker Conversations.
00:08:11
Speaker
And actually we were talking about Viz. Viz was like the co-host for that episode. Okay. And Tiff is the host of the podcast. Yeah. And I think she asked something like, yeah, like what's the ultimate goal? Of where you see yourself like with this.
00:08:29
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And you know, I said that Rob and I, we've always talked about like what Thomas Moser has and how cool that is a big, a big company, but they're making really nice furniture. Everybody's got a good job. It's, you know, I look at their Instagram. I often kind of like.
00:08:46
Speaker
fuck off and look at it for like way too long because it's so I think that like honestly like kind of what like cider press is doing is sort of in that vein because they're making the custom furniture but they don't have like the expansive line of product like Thomas Moser for Thomas Moser and like man I heard a little inside a story from Mira Nakashima is like not down with the CNC work that they do there and
00:09:14
Speaker
You know, and she's like, I can't believe they're doing that. They're fucking, you know, she's kind of like, she's amazing. Obviously the prices for Moser, I feel are very fair. Yeah.
Debate on Technology in Woodworking
00:09:26
Speaker
So it's like, if you want people to be able to buy your furniture, you have to implement some sort of automation. I think it's the only way really.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah. You're going to sit there and carve out a chair seat. Where you're going to be only able to have like these older people who know how to do everything single task properly without, you know, fucking it up. And because the CNC machine, if they do, they do one sample and if that goes well, go, it's like the same thing. Yeah. Run it. And as long as that those suction cups suck the wood down, it's going to
00:09:57
Speaker
It's going to work out. They could just stack up chair seats, you know. Oh, you should see what I'm in. They're ready. Yeah. They have chair parts like in four racks of chair parts, right? You got to put together by like, you know, uh, what's his name? Global just got a BAC Rover.
00:10:12
Speaker
Wait, who's that again? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That company's crazy. I love them. You know, the guys in St. Louis, I've shown you their stuff before. Yeah. He's always like, Jett said it. He's like, I'm in Vietnam sourcing lumber. They made a fucking throne for an African king. Was it a king or a queen? A queen, a queen. Yeah, a queen. So we have a dude in Nigeria. He wants us to come out and teach a class. You're kidding me.
00:10:37
Speaker
but uh if you go on like the department of homeland security website it's like don't go to nigeria it's like a like an orange level forever so a lot of like the pirates going on yeah uh well they just had a an election and i think it was like super
00:10:54
Speaker
like a real bad situation. And the state where this guy's located is like under Sharia law. Oh, fuck no. Yeah. It's like, you know, my wife would definitely not let me go to Nigeria. Hey, we're peaceful woodworkers. Like, no. He's like, I was like, yeah, I'm like, I'm looking and it's like, it doesn't sound like we should really go to Nigeria. He's like, well, it's really it's dangerous everywhere. He's like, I see the news about America. I'm like, you got a point. But yeah, I do. I get goofy. That's true. He doesn't have a goofy.
00:11:26
Speaker
Is it here or is it still at the old shop? We were talking about the bench over there at Garrett Wade. That was on Spring Street in 6th. And Moser had a showroom on Varick. Oh, he did. I'm surprised he doesn't have one now. Yeah, I used to go over there on my lunch hour and just look in the window. Oh, dude, trust me. Yeah, like I said, I was just telling them a story earlier before we started here.
00:11:54
Speaker
But I went to like an auction house to drop something off for somebody and there was a Moser in the middle of the room and I saw it, it was like I had a halo around it and I walked up to it and just like, I love that shit, man. I mean, those forms are pretty much perfect. And, you know, it's like the San Maloof kind of vibe. All those classic American woodworkers. It's very refined. There's like the East Coast vibe. There's the West Coast vibe. There's like, you know, the Nakashima thing is very, very original to him. But then, you know, what happened to that?
00:12:24
Speaker
I like the yeah, this stuff that Moser's doing that's like Nakashima inspired like the eight Oh chair and what's the one I really like Yeah, it's like a stick chair But it's got like a more shapely seat. How do they call it? But I
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, I really like the stuff that they're doing. And like, honestly, if you go look at the prices, like have that New England vibe, too. It's like a shaker green, green, a little bit, you know, a little bit. The cabinetry is like the cabinetry.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they have what they even call like the mission line or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. A lot of stickly. That's the stuff. Yeah. Oh, man. And even the stickly stuff, you know, like, oh, weird. Yeah. Yeah. So hybrid. Yeah. With that big scoop from the bottom like that. Let me see. Where's this freaking chair? These, what are they called?
00:13:28
Speaker
It doesn't say but I mean it's got the Windsor thing going on too. Yeah. Yeah with the spindles. It's just super when you sit in a proper Windsor like a King Windsor in your
Custom Furniture Design Projects
00:13:46
Speaker
back That's a better picture. Yeah, look at that. Yeah
00:13:53
Speaker
Wow, that's delicate. It's just super simple. You know, no, yeah, no stretchers. You know, they just have these curved brackets going from the, did you see the way they make them too? No, they have, there's a couple of little snippets of video where you can kind of check out how they get them glued in there and stuff. I'd like, Oh, so they, they go into a mortise. Yeah, it's a mortise. It's a rounded mortise. So it's obviously CNC maybe, but they do handwork to fit it.
00:14:21
Speaker
Just like the bevel on the top edge of the seat, but the curve is the only thing that is, you know, that's what makes that chair. Nice, you know, thin crest rail, but it's got like a triangular cross section. It's just nice stuff.
00:14:36
Speaker
they have like the eastward still using the really old machines because they do those full um what would you even call that top rail of the chair or the the crust rail oh where it's integrated into the arms you've seen the video of them doing the one kid is like sanding it with his huge piece of wood and he's like he's doing it so perfectly
00:15:00
Speaker
That's something I like about them is like on their social media, they highlight these individual people. They're like, this is Steve. He's been here for 40 years. 40 years. It's crazy. The fact that some of those designs haven't changed for that long is really what is surprising to me. And like this industry is interesting with that stuff.
00:15:21
Speaker
friends come and go like and everything. But with with furniture, there's just such classic things that never should go away. Yeah. And if you try to change them, it just looks like ash and it's like, you know, there's, you know, there's the rules and there's the.
00:15:37
Speaker
the rules of thirds and all that but Like the golden ratios and all that and it's like if you use those things if you'd like practice with that stuff And you realize it works every time you're like what the fuck is? Anybody else doing kind of thing right like why try anything else right? It always looks balanced. Mm-hmm. Yeah
00:15:57
Speaker
And some of the most classic stuff is all from that, you know, like the orders of column, like the column. Yeah, it's all based on this losing me. But yeah, like, you know, good furniture design originates from architectural design. Right. Yeah. We have a couple of those old books. We like that Italian book. Yeah. What the hell is that called? I can't remember because I have the English.
00:16:25
Speaker
Man, I forget. They got it in the office. Yeah. A timeless way of building was an amazing book. That has nothing to do with what you're talking about. But that was like one of the first books I read that got me into like craftsmanship. I don't think I've read that. I have a stack more than multiple stacks of books today. Freaking like three rows of a very large bookshelf full of like every
00:16:46
Speaker
This morning I'm looking and it's the two David Pi books that I have. I'm like, I should really read, get around to reading. Yeah, the Jim Tolpin by hand and I, that one I recommend to everybody. I think it's probably, as far as like inspirational, whenever I'm just like fucking off and I can't think about.
00:17:07
Speaker
You know, you go through those moments where it's like, what am I doing? I'll look at that and immediately be like, Oh, cool. Let's go with that. Or like, I have one of those. Let me go fuck with that thing.
00:17:19
Speaker
And I guess to talk about something, I think I was just thinking about this on the way into the door actually for whatever reason, but I was thinking about, I had this project over the summer where I had to make furniture for a house. A guy hired me to make an amazing dude bought this house out in Bucks County and he was like investing in the property and turning it into this amazing Airbnb. And he had all these like,
00:17:44
Speaker
you know he had the vision board and stuff and then we met and then I was like okay I want to make that piece like that and this like this and then I was like I really want to design like a really sling chair like and I'll just I'll call it the McCarthy chair because last name is McCarthy but I was like I want to design it for you but I want it to be like my design so you know whatever so I got to design that sling chair that I had just posted recently he picked the fabric I picked the you know everything else all the details and then
00:18:13
Speaker
I also got to do some chainsaw sculptures there, which I learned a lot from, learned how fucking difficult that craft is and how much time you're holding a chainsaw. I went out and bought a pop-up tent. I bought sandbags to hold the thing down. I was like, oh my God, I got to use a forklift to lift these. I did five
00:18:33
Speaker
five bar stools and I tried to make them as close to martini glass shapes as I could so I had like an inspiration image that I had in my head of like you know just going to these like classic cocktail bars that have like those really cute martini glasses yeah and then one had like a ball in the middle and one had like like what do you call it uh like ribs basically all the way through the box through the interior
00:19:00
Speaker
But yeah, got to do that, got to do some sculpture.
00:19:04
Speaker
got to make some like proper furniture, got to make a dining table, like all this stuff. And I'm like, you know what? This is almost like the perfect job. Like for me, you know, cause it's like these different aspects of the work where it's like, I kind of get bored. I'm like, I don't want to put, I don't like building cabinet boxes to be completely honest. I like how they look when they're done. I don't enjoy that process at all. And like, you know, I know how to use all the hardware and know how all that shit works and whatever. But as far as that goes, I'm like, you know what?
00:19:35
Speaker
this was that's what I mean you know what I mean and I got to just sorry another thing it got to uh he was he wanted like a funky cabinet handle so I was just like here how's this thing and I drew like it was like a sculptural cabinet handle with like a hole in the middle and like a like a shark teeth kind of vibe
00:19:52
Speaker
and that was like one of the first things I drew for him and I sent it to him and then I just made a sample and kind of like brought it over and I was like here feel this put it on the cabinet has a look he's like oh because Australian I don't want to try to do the accent he's an amazing dude and uh shout out to him he's cool
00:20:08
Speaker
But yeah that and like what else was I doing? I got to do this like sculptural bench for this chick who she's a designer and she does staging and stuff like that. So she's always buying vintage pieces and this thing had this metal base and then she came to me and was like how would you be able to like make this like
00:20:31
Speaker
wooden base for it. And we talked about the base and I was like, well, what if it looked like it was like walking? Like what if I actually made it have like human like animal like legs, like with calf muscles and shit? Was that like that retain? Yeah. Yeah. And she put the boucle seat over that. So it started out as a retain thing with a metal base. Then it became, and she changed that seat. Then I made the base and ended up in a fucking like an art gallery in Miami. I'm like, how's that happen? You know, and then that, and all these nice,
00:20:59
Speaker
pictures were taken of it. And it was like one of these things that I stared at for fucking months, literally. Like she kept it like this was like the longest I ever had something. And I was like, sorry, I I'm having the hardest time with this. And then it just came to me one day and it said, this is it. And I kind of roughed it out, hit it with like a two inch round over bit like a full not a two inch or one inch, but like the biggest one that you can fit in a router.
00:21:23
Speaker
And then I was like, Oh, that's the, that's how I got there. You know, and I would have never, I just almost was, I did it out of frustration because I wanted to see the finished form before I could, instead of carving it with the angle grinder for that long, getting all that shape that I was like, I found the shape on the bandsaw.
00:21:41
Speaker
Then I hit it with the thing and then I started chiseling out like little details, but I was like, that was like so spontaneous and kind of worked so perfectly that I didn't, I didn't even want to tell anybody how that happened. Yeah, that has like a sort of like a bizarre, like animal kind of feel to it. Yeah. And then once I got it close, I was like, okay, this is really, I can, I could feel it working out, you know? Let me see, I pulled up so Rob could see it. Yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's supposed to look like it's move it's supposed to look like it's alive sort of like the base at least and then oh Yeah, we're in the nice The block hell for Wi-Fi. Oh, yeah. Yeah this room the whole place is like oh
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah, so you can imagine what the first podcast we recorded here sounded like before we put any of this shit up. It was just like, bing. I just put that up on the duct work. I could hear everything reverberating off of the duct. Oh my God. It's not gonna load. Oh wait, here we go. Yeah, I remember when you first sent me a picture of this thing. I think you had just mocked up. Yeah, I was like, I was mocking things up for too long on that. And then I got away from it and then I got back into it.
00:22:56
Speaker
But yeah, sorry, Carly. I got it done now. I thought it was up here. Oh, here it is. Yeah, Carly's name is her Instagram is past live studio.
00:23:10
Speaker
Something I've always been amazed with is like the amount of work you put out. I feel like you put out for a one, one man show. Yeah. Yeah. At one point it was, you know, for, you know, for years it was max and I, and then, you know, I just constantly kind of just keep the ball rolling with the transformation. You know, this is like some bullshit that I would walk past that. You know what I mean? If that was on the sitting on the side of the road and trash pickup, it's definitely, it's
00:23:38
Speaker
hip in like the resale kind of community right now, but like she did a good job doing that one for sure. It's a cool kind of like cheese. Yes, it actually was super comfortable. Honestly, I laid in it obviously to test it out.
00:23:53
Speaker
But yeah, it looks like some kind of like, I don't know. And the word that I used for that was like, I saved off cuts of like slabs that way.
Sourcing and Experimentation with Wood
00:24:03
Speaker
I went, you know, go to like, I go to Bucks County Hardwoods, which is where
00:24:08
Speaker
Name dropping again, Nakashima is John's biggest client. He's been cutting for them since the late 70s, early 80s, I guess. Super legendary dude, John Curlew.
00:24:26
Speaker
But yeah, I went to him. I got all these like off cuts of like these figured walnut pieces. And then I was used then I was like, I'm going to use these for something one day. And then that's what I use for the legs of that. So when you got up close to the like the knee was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's got it's got like some real nice straight grain in there, too. Yeah. Yeah, it almost looks like I mean, it's definitely air dried, right? Yeah. Look at that.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah, they were like four inch chunks. And I was thinking about trying to do it on the lathe, like doing half of it on the lathe. And I had just gotten the lathe, but like that's the experimenting with lathe shit that I was just doing as well.
00:25:11
Speaker
People like, multiple people have asked me since they started seeing me like turning stuff, they're like, oh man, what classes did you take? This, that, the other thing? I'm like, you get a delay and you turn it on and then you like pull the tool to it until it feels comfortable. Then you start doing this shit. Like literally like first step is you sell the job. Yes, I did. That's what I did. I mean, I remember talking to you about it. I was like, yep, I got to make some tapered legs and I don't want to pay anybody to do it. So I'm going to buy my buddy's lathe for $250.
00:25:40
Speaker
Cause he was like, I just got a new lathe. Cause all those guys out there, they'd make bowls and you know, there's a bunch of dinners out there. That's how we got a lathe. What was it? We got Keith James bench or a, no, it was the walnut, the painted walnut TV thing. Ah, yeah. We needed these big like four inch round. I drew these like, it was like a, a square stock base with these,
00:26:08
Speaker
kind of like a Japanese kind of thing with the undercut and these four inch round walnut legs. And it was like, well, you know, maybe we could find four inch walnut dial somewhere. They're probably going to be ugly. Yeah. That's the thing. Once you find out that, like, the only way to make something round is with a lathe, like pretty much unless you want to. So we borrowed that little X caliber lathe from our buddy, Keith. Well, actually he gave it to us because he had two of them and we just
00:26:34
Speaker
The little one over here. Yeah, we just made the legs then we did a job with tapered legs, right? Those are 2d2 tables in there Rob turn those Everything I've been just having all these round ideas like you have the Danes table that like and talk about that as a tricky thing to make like fucking
00:27:02
Speaker
through mortise table legs that are round and then on the end they're they're capped but the way I the way I cap um I make that detail like the step in detail with the round over on the end so it's got like the cup and then you can brain match like screw holes and put two screws on one and actually I only did like one on the top and one on the top so you don't see the plug
00:27:24
Speaker
But like that was that was pressure fit from the lathe that was like my second month And that was I fucked one up and I was I got a real like you I was inching up on it and then I like dug in You see like a little line yeah, I just gotta just just yeah, and then you see it in the work like after you
00:27:46
Speaker
Yes, he's got a table and like so the leg comes down like let's say it's like whatever six inches wide and then it's a round stretcher that goes through it's a six inch it's a six inch leg like from the side view
00:28:02
Speaker
four inch hole with a four inch dowel and then the stretcher is a has a hole then this leg has a hole that the stretcher comes through that's also a two inch dowel but it's like a six foot two inch dowel so talk about a fucking bendy piece of wood like if you don't have a straight piece for that dowel for that uh stretcher it's oh yeah you almost want to like split it tell me about it i did
00:28:25
Speaker
actually I think I have four of those walnut four inch walnut legs in my bench. So yeah, that's the kind of thing. It's like you turn a couple extra and it's like, I want to get rid of these. Those were the ones that were slightly off. Like I had like a thing I would test the, they were three inch because we have a three inch fours in a bit. So I drilled the holes and then, uh,
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's like this one's a little bit loose like which are the what are the best eight of these 11 that I made I was watching YouTube the other night as I
00:28:56
Speaker
There was some dude, I don't know the name of a make something TV, maybe some shit. And I usually don't watch those kind of videos because they're a little too like DIY for me or like garage type woodworker bullshit. But Ryobi and and Harch brand too much of that and like them defending themselves and like whatever. So this dude was like I want to he wanted a sliding. He made it sliding table saw like this, like it was legit. Like it was like these.
00:29:22
Speaker
Are they something linear glides off of Amazon? You've seen them? And then I saw that and I was like, you know what? I could make like a sick fixture for the top of the lathe with the router and then just have like the bushing in there with the three. No, sorry. Just make like a three quarter hole in the middle of this board and have it on these linear guides and then have that and just drop the router. And then you could do and then you could have one that was tilting, but you wouldn't that I don't even know why you would need to tilt it, but
00:29:50
Speaker
just to make dowels like really fast. Yeah. I saw a video and then figure out where to get it down to just recently. It was a Japanese guy. Yeah. Yeah. To make them consistent. Like, yeah. I mean, I've seen I've been watching, you know, I remember watching the first time I saw like a router being used with the lathe and unisols like, oh, my God. Yeah. Well, you just get a cyclone.
00:30:12
Speaker
Exactly. That's that machine that our buddy Corey invented. No, well, no, our buddy Corey, Odyssey CNC, he did like all those watch boxes and stuff. Right. And that drip. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. He invented, I mean, wow.
00:30:28
Speaker
I don't know if invented is the right word because the kind of thing existed already, like a fifth at fifth, fourth, whatever, an additional access to like a regular CNC is like the rotary access. So it's a rotary CNC. It's a lathe with a router on the top. Yeah, I believe that's a six. Yeah. So you, I mean, you can make anything on that. You could just like tapered legs. They can probably buzz those out. They make baseball bats like that.
00:30:54
Speaker
pattern lays, you can make it a pattern lathe really easily. Now that I've had the lathe and been explained how that works, it's like you take your tool and put it on a piece of plywood fixture and make a very nice pattern to follow and that's the pattern jig.
00:31:13
Speaker
Something I did was, uh, if you need to make one thing, you can do that. But if you need to make like 25 things, don't do that. But like, yeah, that's what people do. I put like a little stop on the tool so that when it hit the tool rest, as long as the tool rest was parallel to the work, it would get bigger. How big is your health? Why does your rest? Cause mine's like, it's like four inches. I put like a piece of wood on it. And then it's so hard to be good with that thing.
00:31:39
Speaker
the only thing I want to do with that lathe is just have someone make me like a nice like almost probably like 18 inch one because you when you can slide just back and forth exactly use your finger whichever finger yeah that was it my limited turning that was the first thing I recognized yeah and you got these nice long like all these like you know that's another thing and you got to start buying these lathe tools now that
00:32:07
Speaker
So you're using carbide or high-speed steel? I have all this hand-me-down shit, but I just sharpen it right before I use it and it's good. White oak, it wears down and way quicker than anything else, but yeah, and that's the thing. When I make that table, it's white oak, and then I'm making this other shit out of white oak, and it's like never giving myself a break trying to do anything easy.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah, Natway wants to tear out. Yeah. Oh yeah. It'll humble you. That would. Yeah. That would love fucking with people. We turned something in White Oak. I don't remember what.
00:32:43
Speaker
I don't remember either. Yeah. I was trying to make these napkin rings cause, uh, cloud of Mars. Yeah. She, her son works at 11 Madison. Yeah. So, um, we're trying to make this napkin ring. So I, I, I envision this sort of like, uh, what would you call that shape?
00:33:01
Speaker
Hourglass, maybe. Yeah. Well, not quite. It's like a like a court. Oh, like a kind of like a trumpet. But two of them like back to back to backwards parentheses. Yeah. OK. You know, like it's a visual whatever anyway. I got it.
00:33:17
Speaker
So I made one and then I'm like, all right, now I gotta drill the hole. So I put a Forzner bit and then I clamped it in a block, you know, wooden block clamp. And then like the second you make it through, the thing just caves in on itself. So it's like, I'm trying to figure out a way to be able to, I need a drill bit in the tailstock of the right. Maybe it's the way they'll grain. I mean, do you have to have end grain facing?
00:33:41
Speaker
Uh, well, we only have like a spur and, uh, and a center point. So you don't have like the bull turning. No, yeah. So you got to piss with the cock. You got drill the hole, like almost all the way through and then flip it over and then turn it.
00:34:01
Speaker
Well, yeah, but that lady that's got to have that center point. Oh, yeah, we got to have two. Can you like a three jaw or something? Yeah, I see. Make it like a bowl fixture. Yeah. And then, you know, how big does the end of that have to be? Eight fucking three inches screws like in these things. And they got this piece of a lot.
00:34:22
Speaker
And I'm working with like a two by two piece of walnut. I'm going to glue a giant block on the end. Just use some star bond. Could probably make like because it does have the holes that you can screw through. Right. Could make like a piece of plywood or something with some like cleats and then glue it in there. I don't know. I mean, it's a. Unless it's like.
00:34:44
Speaker
It's just a proof of concept thing. So it's like, how much time did they turn 11 Madison park? Isn't it vegan now? Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. So we, they were like known for their steak. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Most of those, uh, type of places are very meat and fish heavy. Um, yeah.
00:35:06
Speaker
We, uh, like when we first started the company, there was this guy who used to prior would go to Rob shop and ask him to like, Oh, can you like playing this down? Whatever. He didn't have any machines. He had a lot of like routers and that's what he did. You know, yeah, no, like joiner or planer. So he like shows up to the shop one day and he's like,
00:35:29
Speaker
I got to make these Gerd dons for this place 11 Madison and like it's totally out of my like ability and blah, blah, blah. He's like, will you guys do it? And we're like, Oh yeah, you know, I think maybe like some drawings or something. But we had questions and we're like,
00:35:48
Speaker
Basically, he wanted to have us make it and take all the credit. So he didn't want to introduce you to whoever it was. No, because we wanted to talk to the client. I wouldn't have been able to do it because I need to know. We told the fuck off. Now he works down the street. You have to have market control. What is it? Where does he work?
00:36:07
Speaker
there's a shop over there called timber. It's big CNC shop. They have the older guy. Um, they have like the big robot arms with the turntables and they got, they have a lot of stuff. I mean, I love machinery, but I actually prefer like a little, they do a lot for like Daniel Arsham sculpture. Oh, they have the robotic arm thing. Yeah. You know, Kith, they just did a whole big, like,
00:36:35
Speaker
They're these white oak benches, but they like, they like built them out of solid glue ups or something. And they're like curved with these like, you know, whatever, like a clothing rod.
CNC in Retail Furniture
00:36:50
Speaker
like Mortiston on the ends or something. Yeah, like it comes up over the top, but it's like 50 something feet long, like all the, and it's, yeah, crazy. They do a lot of interesting engineering. It's an interesting industry in that capacity. Cause like all of these big retail places are also spend, they get budgets for that stuff. It's like incredible.
00:37:15
Speaker
Like, so when you, when you have the facility to make that stuff, that's where, you know, you can really make some money, you know? Yeah, I mean, you know, that's a million dollar job, I'm sure. You're very, in this business, you're limited with how much money you can make, depending on what tools you have, how much space you have, and then who you know, and you know. Yeah, some people take some 15 years to get started, some people take some five fucking months to get started.
00:37:39
Speaker
I mean, we've already seen, you know, moving into the space, how much more we're able to do just going from 800 square feet to 5,000 square feet. That's incredible. I mean, it's like you're in the, in the small shop, you're taking one thing and then you're moving it over here and then you're moving, you're set up again. And then you're going to be like, that's going to cross cut eight feet on the table. So let me move the shaper. Yeah. Hold on. We got to, we got to move the kitchen. We're building to the other side of the shop now because like,
00:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, just much less downtime because there's always something you can do. And then you can wheel a cart over here and do that. It's like, oh yeah, let me just mock out the lumber for this other job while I'm waiting for this thing. And it'll just be here waiting. Honestly, I'll often work on two things at the same time, you know, because I have two tables, you know, worst tables.
00:38:28
Speaker
and like start a glue up for one or whatever, mill the wood for one, have it sitting there the way today, then like come over here, do some glue ups, go do this thing. Cause it's like, when you have room to put stuff, then you can be doing that. Yeah. Like we have a, I don't even know for some odd jobs going on in the shop right now. Right. Totally. Because you know, there's, I don't know if we're talking about the podcast or what, there's always downtime. You run into something and you're waiting on like the plywood didn't show up today that was supposed to show up.
00:38:57
Speaker
And when you work for yourself, sometimes that can just be like, what do we do now? Right. Like, you know, especially when you got another guy and you're usually like, that was the thing with when I, whenever it was like max and I, and that would happen. I go, all right, let's just go for a drive. Let's go to the lumber yard. Like, that's how I ended up like, I want to check out these different places. And I'd be like, ah, we got the morning to kill right now. We're waiting on delivery.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm paying him to fucking come hang out. Yeah. When that's all you know, because you're just used to, you know, only having the capacity to do so much, it doesn't seem like wasteful. Right. But then when like now I think back, I'm like, man, we wasted so much time. Like we had days where we would just like sit around for half the day because
00:39:38
Speaker
you know, lumber, we're waiting on the lumber delivery and we literally can't do anything else. All the clamps are done. All the clamps are used and the glue has got to drive for another hour. Like what do we do? Yeah.
00:39:50
Speaker
Yeah, I've been through days like that where all the clamps are out and you're just sort of like, all right, well, I guess the day's over. There was days in Brooklyn where I used all my clamps and I went to Home Depot, bought like six more, so I could throw more wooden clamps. I also used to leave stuff in the clamps for way longer than I do now for whatever reason, but.
00:40:08
Speaker
I used to think you had to put it in there for like 12 hours, but it's literally like two at this point Yeah, I like a good overnight. Yeah, I mean you I'll take them out of the clamps if I have to but I don't like to do anything I'm just saying if I'm cycling through stuff and I need the clamps. I'm like, I'll put the two-hour timer I'll go I'll combine like, you know, you have doors glued up and then you take two doors put them in a bigger set of clamps, you know
00:40:33
Speaker
You don't want to glue up a door with like a 60 inch clip. Yeah, when you do shelves, you take the nose and you bump it up. When you get to the point where you got the six foot clamp on like an 18 inch door because all the other clamps are gone and like the clamps are sticking up six feet. You go through all your favorites first. Yeah. We like those Dubuque clamps.
00:40:54
Speaker
My fucking this dude worked for me he bent like two of those really Yeah, cuz he cranked them so hard like yeah that much pressure I know And I brought him back and I was like you think they were like what happened I was like, uh, I don't know. I didn't do it, but this is pretty bad, huh? They're like, yeah, that's not supposed to happen, dude
00:41:18
Speaker
Those six foot ones will get quite a bit of a career. You got to like really switch them. Yeah. But they have so much more force than the Bessie clamps. It's funny, right? You know, if you have like a joint lock in that one spot better. Yeah. If you have like a joint that you're trying to close up and you and you're using a Bessie and then you grab one of those, it's like one half a turn. And the thing is just like squeezing out. Yeah. Like you could squeeze all the glue out of a joint with those things and they're nice and light.
00:41:46
Speaker
Well, the best news that you say, if you find Bessie, what are these? The F-clamp? Is that this one? The red one? But they're like a bar clamp.
00:41:58
Speaker
with the plastic heads? No, those are. Oh, those are cable, cable, cable ones with the metal with the case. Those, if you find the ones that are like they have like a 12 inch, sorry, 12 inch deep, um, really super
Tool Preferences and Inspirations
00:42:13
Speaker
beefy. They're like, we've got made in the eight inch ones. They made in Germany on those ones are the fucking shit. Those are like the persuaders. If you want to move something, like if you want to close something up, those things will.
00:42:25
Speaker
Actually, we got three now. That's right. Because one came on the sliding table saw and we bought it. Yeah, those are nice. Those are worth more than like that half of that sliding table saw. Those are like two hundred and ten dollars each or something. Yeah. I'd like some of those that have the like a T-shaped handle because then you can really crank down on them. That's that's the thing about the Bessie's too. Those handles suck. The wooden. Yeah. Even the rubber ones. Oh, the old ones. Yeah. The old one with the wood handle.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah, there's only like four that have plastic. Yeah, we have. Yeah, so they all have channel lock marks on them. I have a problem with lacquered wood handles on the tools. It'll give you blisters. Yeah, I was doing these fucking slotted screws the other night. You know, waxing, I'm doing the whole thing. Bought the specials. I bought a screwdriver. I thought I was going to have to grind it to be custom for the screw, but it actually fit perfectly. I put one piece of tape around the tip and it was like nice and tight.
00:43:22
Speaker
and that screwdriver had a lacquered wood handle and I bought it because it was a wood handle but it didn't feel low and I didn't know that it was lacquered and I have like the Douglas hammers that aren't lacquered and they feel so good and it's like drumsticks I've fucking grew up playing drums and I love you know that feel of wood and my hand has always been a thing so it's like
00:43:43
Speaker
When it's got lacquer on it, it just feels so foreign to me. And I'm like, I was like, I'm going to sand this thing. I really am. I'm just going to sand it because it's such a sick, it's a sick tool. Yeah. Filo makes nice stuff. That's my go to like driver bit is Filo. Oh, for real? Yeah. For everything. Phillips, Torx, whatever. Yeah. I like when KCTL, KCTL sends you a little, a little free bit. Oh yeah. A bit of thanks. Yeah.
00:44:10
Speaker
Actually, I have a Filo. It's like a ratchet set. It's a little yellow. The little mini one. Yeah, it's nice. A quarter inch. That's like my house. Yeah, at the house. A little handyman drawer. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got you go to your house. It's like a fucking handyman drawer. Somebody's got like some shit. You got like a. I have like a whole half a basement. Yeah. Now, no Lee Nielsen at the house.
00:44:35
Speaker
But I do have, you know, because I was a carpenter before I ever did this. So I have all of those. I mean, a lot of the tools are here, like all the Makita stuff. But right. Yeah. I mean, I have like, you know, because I've done such a freaking honestly like a plethora of different types of jobs over the years.
00:44:51
Speaker
That was like one time I bought this tool just for the job. And then I'm like, what am I doing with this? I have a 16 inch circular saw now. Okay, cool. Like, you know, Bigfoot, the Makita one, the bigger one. Oh, yeah. It's underpowered. Honestly, it's not that it's it's cool, but it loves. It's like, yeah, it's made for cutting like timber framing, like the duck fur or something like that. It's not going to cut. Definitely. If you've cut anything hard, it's a challenge.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, chainsaws are fun. That's one thing I don't have is a chainsaw.
00:45:29
Speaker
And that's another thing when you go to Bucks County Hardwoods, John's got a Husqvarna 1296, I think it is. And it's the six, he's got eight foot bar. This chainsaws the size of your torso and like he's, and you just want to hold it. Like you see it and you're like, dude, can I pick it up? Get a picture of me holding this. And he's like, you can't lift that you fucking pussy.
00:45:53
Speaker
me the chainsaw guy at maker camp. Oh yeah. Yeah. There was a guy like carving bears and stuff, but he had like, you know, every little thing beat up, like Dodge Ram pickup lifted with like, you know, and then like 80s hair metal blasting. And then at night, you know, at night, everybody
00:46:13
Speaker
he's got like some girl showed up and they're partying with him or something. He had like his wife who looked like a biker chick kind of, but he's got a shirt, it's like, I make liberals cry. Unreal. Like this guy is just like totally the, like living the stereotype. Fucking hey, and he had, did he have like a Punisher sticker on the chainsaw or something? Probably. Absolutely.
00:46:36
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah, like four different tires on the truck. Dude, really? How do you get that gig? Oh, man. I don't know. They're not selling the carvings. Rob tried to buy one. Yeah. I didn't want to sell it. He's like, Oh, man. Well, he brought one in like a last day. Like he's packing up. He like, he wanted like a last day deal, you know? And you weren't asking like anything crazy. No, no. You know, it was like a little bear. I thought, you know, something. What do you want? 400 bucks?
00:47:02
Speaker
Yeah. Was it good though? Was it like decent? I feel like they all look the same. It was okay. It wasn't something like you go, oh, I got me happy. Not like super realistic, like that kind of blocky. Yeah, okay. I call cartoonish-ish. Yeah, the punisher.
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's like, come on, like you're an exhibitor at this show. You're out here like, you know, punish or get roped into that shit, man. You know, yeah, that's a twisted, a twisted backwards interpretation. Yeah. Quite a bit going on out there right now. But that's OK.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, the story with the chainsaw makes me think of the time I was hanging out with these forest guys that were doing... Other forest service? Yeah, preservation work with the broad axes and stuff like that. So you're, you know, standing on the lawn. Oh, right, right, right, right. Like, what's his name? The guy who does that on...
00:48:16
Speaker
No, but he's like he seems like a close talker, you know
00:48:21
Speaker
He's definitely intense. He did a TED talk. He did a TED talk? Yeah. He did it, I think, at least five years ago, I believe. I watched it. He's an intense dude, but he's all about that thing. It's like his vibe is the education, keeping it bold. He had a show. Oh, yeah. That's what you just said. It's on YouTube. A lot of it's on YouTube. When I first got into woodworking, honestly, I watched that shit a lot. It was cool. And it made me see how there's a million different ways to do things the old way, whatever.
00:48:50
Speaker
Yeah, no, I do like his stuff, but he's like the kind of guy where like if you're like holding this remote, he'd be like holding it at the same time. He would like touching your hand. He'd caress you. He'd caress a bunchy while he was telling you how to use a table phone. You're getting a little into my personal space.
00:49:14
Speaker
I use those things for like, you know, 30 minutes and my shoulder was like burning, like nobody's business. And those guys would be up on that log for hours and hours.
00:49:33
Speaker
I mean, not by me, like in PA, it's like a jungle, like the Asplund, you know, this tree service Asplund. Oh, yeah. They're freaking like their tree service that's traded in the stock market. Really? Yeah. Oh, you know what? Publicly traded company.
00:49:48
Speaker
Bloody in Arkansas. He's got those guys like he built these cabins as Airbnbs. He's got those guys like are staying in his cabins right now. I guess they send them out from Louisiana or something. The family is originally from New Hope and that's how I know one of my buddies that's from there. He was telling me.
00:50:03
Speaker
But like I'm amazed by them. First of all, they have like the sickest trucks and they have a crane, you know, like the old bomber that had the Jaguar teeth. Oh, yeah. Mustang, the P41 Mustang. The P41 Mustang. They have a crane that has that painted on the front and they came around the corner like right out and I was like, damn, bro, you guys are killing it.
00:50:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. There's a lot of I mean, tree service stuff is like, it's very interesting as part of this part of our world. Yeah, there's a lot to learn about trees that you know, you ever work with like salvage wood where aren't like
00:50:40
Speaker
like where somebody cut down a tree and then like there's a there's this guy we bought that stupid edge standard from that's what he does like he's got it in with somebody in the state or something and when they go to they cut down trees like they call him and they're like we got a walnut tree and he goes and picks it up and
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know what kind of mill he has, but he's got a mill, he's got a kiln. Yeah. And I mean, speaking of John, that's like what he had a tree service and sold it. And he has like other people who have tree services and literally call him and like, I call him now my buddy's big Steve tattoo artist, shout out big Steve. He called me, sends me a picture, doesn't even call me, sends me a picture. He's like white oak in my front yard, Pico, the power company came, they cut down
00:51:26
Speaker
like Asplen comes later and then they pick up the chunks or whatever and like he went up to them he's like dude don't have don't send anybody like I got this and then he had the dude come with the truck and then they there's a few guys out there that have like the crane truck he milled it up he's got it sitting in his driveway he's like I want you to make me a kitchen when this thing is ready so that's fucking cool yeah
00:51:51
Speaker
I did a job in Rumson. It was like it was supposed to be a kitchen. It turned into like a 2500 square foot addition. And there were these huge like
00:52:02
Speaker
hundred foot tall black walnuts in the front and they cut them all down and they cut down a couple other trees like a poplar and maybe like a pin oak or something and they're grinding up other trees and then they know they pull up and all the walnut logs are like 20 feet long and they put them inside of a dump truck and drove away.
00:52:25
Speaker
But, you know, you also, yeah, you don't know what the tree looks like. No, you never know. That's like the people who buy. Some of the guys, they think they can tell. Yeah. They buy wood off like Facebook marketplace, like stuff that people milled and dried. Listen, I'm scared. I'm scared of that crap. If you go on Facebook right now, you'll see.
00:52:46
Speaker
Some scary shit like I was like $12 a board foot. Yeah, I'm like no that's what you pay when it's good right when it's not freaking when a professional grader is graded it right like when it's When I when I buy it I wanted to have some like seal on the end grain. Mm-hmm I want that white letter letters on the side that say FAS. Yes
00:53:09
Speaker
You know, there's a place for that kind of stuff you doing like river tables or something, but we actually had somebody reach out about a not a river table. The one table she sent me did have some epoxy in it. Stream table. It was black and it was like glass filling in a void. No, but.
00:53:27
Speaker
Talking about I'm just gonna say this cuz fucking Greg class in with his bullshit like Pretending he invented that like he got a glass in the middle. Yeah, and he got a copyright so he started reaching out to other people that were making them and was like and like
00:53:45
Speaker
Then he, you know, I don't know. It's not like I want to talk about how much of a problem I have with somebody, but never met the guy. I don't really care. But the way he talks about like his art and like how he just seems so ridiculous. He literally like takes up. He took it. I think he took a stump and he put it on a base and I think he sanded it. And then he tells a story about it. And he's got all these people in this mountain towns that are buying it because it's got like that
00:54:15
Speaker
whatever. There's a place for everything, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, unfortunately, there is a place for everything. We say it all the time. You know, we we work in a high end market, not the highest of the high end, but we work in a high end market. There's a reason why we've never been asked to make a river table because it's not for some people are
00:54:38
Speaker
buying them for fucking money though. I don't know who's spending the money. I've seen, I actually dig that ass. That was so funny. I forget where I was, but it was like a barbecue somewhere a couple of years ago. Oh yeah, what are you doing? I'm a woodworker. Oh yeah, my brother's coming. He's a woodworker. Have you seen river tables? He makes river tables. I was like, oh fuck, like let me know when he gets here.
00:55:06
Speaker
Here's a good one. We can top that story. There was a cherry tree that was like leaning over the old shop like a scam likely leaning over the old shop like super precarious and it was like dying. So we had tree service come and cut it down and the guys are out there and the one dude like comes in the shop.
00:55:25
Speaker
He's like, Oh, what are you guys doing? We're like building this. I don't know if you saw this big cherry with the Gothic panels. Right. That one was dope. He's like, Oh man, I got a buddy who's a woodworker. He makes cornhole boards. Here we go.
00:55:38
Speaker
Oh my God. I'm like, I just hand carved those with a spokeshave. Like your buddy's cutting holes in plywood. It's like clocks and hey, nailing legs to the side. Oh, your, your, your buddy works at 11 Madison park. My buddy works at McDonald's. Yes, exactly. He's a chef at a line cook at Chili's. Yeah. You can have it your way. I fucking whatever. That was, that was a good one. And I mean, you just got the grin and bear it. You're like, Oh yeah, that's great.
00:56:10
Speaker
That was good. He's a woodworker too. Yeah. We always have to take the high road. Who was it? We had that guy that popped in the client last week. He said something about a river table. We're quick to say like, yeah, no, we're not into that. We're not set up for that here. Yeah.
00:56:27
Speaker
That's the way to put it. We're not set up for that. He's like, we have these teak. The brain isn't set up to take that. Oh, yes, yes. I meant these outdoor chairs that need to be refinished. Maybe we could start with that. I said, yeah, that's not something that we would do, but we could give you a phone number for somebody who can. We'll take them and then we'll sub it out to somebody. You don't even want that.
00:56:49
Speaker
He's like, yeah, I tried to do it. It's like a total nightmare. I'm like, exactly what makes you think that when you try to do it with the fucking hand sanding it like, come on. Oh, man. Yeah, we get a lot of well, not so much anymore. We used to get a lot of inquiries about refinishing furniture, which.
00:57:04
Speaker
I actually do as well because I don't think a lot of people do it. Nobody does it anymore. Yeah, I know one dude in Brooklyn who's kind of like older than me. I don't know how old he is. I'm 35. He's probably like 42 maybe, but he's really good. I'm just saying, I don't know anybody younger than him that does it.
00:57:24
Speaker
No. I mean, it's a dying art because nothing is made to last long enough to need to be refinished anyway. I've like refinished some chairs that were completely falling apart, like every style basically. And definitely learned a lot about how furniture goes together that way. Actually, before I built furniture, that is something that I can say. And they were like Danish. And then my ex-girlfriend was getting them reupholstered, you know, and they actually came out amazing. But like,
00:57:52
Speaker
rebuilt the chair, stained it black, then they got it upholstered, it looked amazing. But like, definitely learned how a lot of that stuff worked out, you know? We have to make a seat for a mid-century Danish piece. There's a place in Jersey City, Lenovo Design or something like that. They go, they are Danish, I guess.
00:58:12
Speaker
They go every year and they buy up all kinds of stuff like the lady died and they go buy the entire house furniture. They should go back to Jersey City. There's mid-century modern. Danish modern is the fucking shit. That's the best of it. That's the pinnacle. All of the Hans Wagner stuff.
00:58:28
Speaker
But yeah, so they send it back here Jersey City, they have a shop, they refinish it. They send it to our upholster Jim Jamal. He does the upholstery. So he's got a base. I would like to see this place. We should go. Yeah, apparently it's right down the street from Jim. Yeah. Really? They probably have like an incredible amount of stuff. It's like high boys like stacked shoulders. Fuck. I love that shit, man. Danish modern.
00:58:54
Speaker
Yeah, the names are. It's like, oh, you want the round chair? It's like there's 50 of them. You know, the walrus chair. It's got like the wings. It's a it's a poster, but with wooden armrests. And then. Oh, man, who's the fucking designer? Hans, not Wagner. No, it's not him. Damn it. Oh, man, I'm on a podcast. I can't remember anybody's name, but I'll send it to you and then maybe we can. But you know, I have this big screen right here.
00:59:28
Speaker
Look up Danish modern designers and it's all. Yeah, I'll pull it over to this. Hey Jamie. Yeah. There we go.
00:59:54
Speaker
We're in the internet. There's another dude, there's a dude in Lambertville who has, and this is where I corrected myself the other minute there because it was talking about mid-century modern, but Danish modern is the way to go. And this dude in Lambertville has one of the stores and he only collects. Is it that one? Oh yeah, I didn't realize you couldn't like that.
01:00:22
Speaker
Um, no, it's similar to that. Does it resemble a walrus? Um, the original one, maybe it's Pelican chair. What the fuck am I thinking? Yeah. That's it. Right there. Right there. In jewel. That's it. Pelican chair to the right. Yep. Oh yeah.
01:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, Finn Jewel, that's the dude. Oh, yeah, I know that name. His shit is dope. It's like totally. If you look at that book, you're going to get you're going to get some shapes in your head.
01:00:56
Speaker
Very cool forms and very. Yeah, when we did season two, you know, we did all the periods of America furniture when when we did the mid-century period. Right. And that's just so much website. What is this? Oh, they must have bought the frickin rights to that thing or something, because that's that's like the EAM stuff. You can get it on Herman Miller. But there's a bunch of other companies that bought the rights to. Yeah, it's wild how that worked out. Mario Bellini sofa.
01:01:26
Speaker
Look at this, a wild willy table. Oh, God. Yeah, that's what I mean. I've got to get away from that, because some of my stuff at first was looking that way, and then I had to change it, because now every single furniture manufacturer makes very similar things.
01:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of, I've seen a lot of people on Instagram biting your style, or at least what, you know, your style from a couple of years ago.
01:01:58
Speaker
That's what I started doing. I don't think it's even my style to say the least. I mean, I definitely want my pieces to be having their own voice and shit, but like, I can't claim having a style yet. I think I'm getting there. Yeah. And it, you know, definitely have an aesthetic that I like to work with. And I definitely think people see that. And I definitely want to continue to work in this aesthetic that I am working in. Cause I think I'm really getting it now.
01:02:24
Speaker
If your style's not evolving at 35, you get a problem. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I mean, that's my thing. It's like, I love it. You're like, I found it. You know, and that's what I'm talking about with the chainsaw stuff, mixing that with this and that.
01:02:39
Speaker
Um, cause like there could be like this super modern furniture that has a element of a carbonate and it makes it stand out compared to the other thing. And I remember, I don't know this guy, another name, uh, Michael Robbins. I really loved, you know, that guy.
01:02:54
Speaker
I don't think so. You could look him up too. I mean, Michael Robbins, BCMT co, you know, that guy up and he's in Kingston. These two guys are great. You know, they're kind of got the Moser thing going on. They got the simple lines, but they have like really chunky legs and some tapers from the base of the table up, like that are almost impossible to even make. I don't know how they did it. But then I found out the guy has a lathe that can handle six foot round.
01:03:26
Speaker
And even like you put the video out and I'm like are you like he's standing next to this table And he's got to be five six seven something like that the tables Sky over over him because it's on the fixture so it's like adding another foot and a half or whatever so I'm like Really and they like make they just have like a piece of uh It's not even fixed to the piece. I mean to the lathe or anything. It's just like they have a stand that holds the tool and it just keeps and he moves it over you know and
01:03:56
Speaker
So yeah, that's one of those where, you know, some real you can't do it unless you have that thing. Yeah. Some of these things you just got to have. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to go up to Boston and buy like the from that dude, Freddie Roman. Yeah. Restoration. What's his name on there? period crafts. period crafts. And yeah, what's up, Freddie? I have a whole bin of sash weights for you, Freddie. I know you're never coming back to New Jersey. I'm buying.
01:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, he seems to be always dealing with some kind of crazy shit. Yeah, he's a he's like a PM now. Yeah, which is great. Yeah, I've been watching his stuff.
01:04:45
Speaker
He has a really cool unit drill. Yeah. Like a radial drill press. But it's 70 degrees this way, 70 degrees this way, full tilt, full tilt, all the way around. So it's basically, it's a bridge port, but without like all the machinings. Right.
01:05:04
Speaker
So it's got potential to be a really useful thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean even just drilling legs into it. That's what I'm saying. Just for that stuff. Making it jig. Just having it go that. Because those angles, once you find them, you need to be able to find them over and over again. That's what's so sick about the CNC stuff. If you have this amazing drill press and you got it on that angle and you can set that every time, then that's great. But if you want to be consistent and fast, there's only one way to do it.
01:05:34
Speaker
Can't be fast and cheap without being fast. Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, you got to find ways to make the price, at least the cost. You need to find ways to decrease the cost of your products if you want to be able to sell them. Absolutely. Unless you'll only be working for fucking these higher end designers that only deal with the millionaires that only... And then they're putting 15% or more on top of you. They're doing all kinds of shit on top, dude. For real.
01:06:00
Speaker
15% of your lucky and that's okay. But you know as long as you're getting paid what you think you should be getting paid. I feel like that's fine. Yeah, I've heard about ridiculous up charges on stuff out in the Hamptons like like 100% like 1015 grand on top of what I not not me personally, but I've heard about it.
01:06:19
Speaker
And I'm sure it happened to me personally a few times without me knowing. Honestly, the best is when the first job with the client is through a designer and then they hire you independently. Cause you could just throw, you could just tack on all kinds of money. You're like, Oh wait, how much was that? Oh, it was probably like double that, right? Yeah.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, there was a client. They know there was a certain job that I did out in the Hamptons. Well, I work with Ken Folk, who's an amazing designer. He's a very kind of a celebrity in a way. He's like he's where he's like hangs out with Oprah and not Oprah. Sorry. Oh, my God. Is it another Oprah type? It's like somebody that you would be laughing at. Sally Jesse Raphael.
01:07:09
Speaker
Kelly Ripa. No, it's like the vice president. Michelle Obama. No.
01:07:16
Speaker
That's the first lady. Oh, Kamala Harris? Yeah, he's like homies with her. Like he meets her at the plane when she gets off. He's like, oh, hi, Ken. And he like flies around with like four fucking golden retrievers, but not like the gold ones, like white ones. Oh my God. He's crazy fucking out there and I love it. And the one spot we did out in East Hampton,
01:07:42
Speaker
had to sign NDA before you go. No pictures. I sent you the pictures of the dining table. That was a 17 and a half foot long dining table top because they had a three-piece top. They didn't like the seams. They needed the 17 and a half foot table for, I forget which Jewish holiday it was, but
01:08:02
Speaker
There's a big dinner for this holiday and they have this Passover probably. Pretty probably. Yeah. What month is that? Uh, what was that? Is that November or something? That doesn't line up, but maybe, um, Oh yeah. 17 and a half foot table.
01:08:23
Speaker
I just drew a, what is that? 14, 14, six, three piece, but that's not our idea. What, where'd you source that material for that? So that's the thing. They were like, the other one was mahogany, right? So I was like, Oh, that's good. And another reason I was like, I know that that those trees are the longest, they're fricking like 90 feet tall. And like, they're just long
Challenges with Large Furniture Projects
01:08:47
Speaker
and straight. The branch
01:08:48
Speaker
are at the top. There's like no knots in them either. So I got like 20 footers from McElvane, but John ordered it for me because he's got the hook up or whatever. But I was like, John, I need 18 feet. He's like, how long is the fuck? He's like, dude, what are you talking about?
01:09:05
Speaker
because nobody has ever done that ever there and he's like I don't even know where I'm gonna put it he's like I'm gonna have to put on the top rack and if anybody ever needs anything from the and I'm like that I'm gonna but I'm using all of it don't worry about it and then I and then I was like see how wide you can get them got fucking 14 inch wide but it's appealing a quarter yeah yeah yeah if you want big flat wood superior fucking crazy I'm gonna start making a try to make like a outdoor furniture collection I'm also feeling cuz like
01:09:34
Speaker
It looks good black too, you know, in like black. You'll get a piece that's 10 inches wide because that's all we give nine and 15, 16s on the jointer. One pass flat. Yeah, that's what it was long. Honestly, to make that table, I made most of it solo and it was 17 and a half feet long, but like I was able to do it because of the jointer and the carts and stuff and making sure I had the rolling, I have the rolling table at the end of the jointer. So when they set up, when you set that up like Ted, it's like stays flat for a long time, but
01:10:04
Speaker
Most of the time you would need a second person to like hold the thing down. Oh yeah. You get like a four foot piece of hard maple. It's got like a three inch crown in it. It's unreal. Yeah. Yeah. And then you mill it out and then it's like 10 minutes later. Two days. Yeah. Two days later. It's like, yeah, maple sucks.
01:10:23
Speaker
Yeah, that was a fun one to deliver. I mean, we put that in the Sprinter and drove it out there in the windy area. On the BQE? Yeah, all the way out. Oh, you have commercial blades? The LIE.
01:10:36
Speaker
PA, you have truck plates, so it's basically the same. So you can't drive on the Bell Parkway? No, you cannot. That's the issue with us going out there. I did it illegally once and got pulled over. I had no idea what was going on. No, sorry, I didn't get pulled over. I was driving, I was going like 90 on that one. What is it again? Bell Parkway, yeah. And then I got off the exit.
01:10:58
Speaker
and the cop saw me getting off the exit and he's like he rolls and he's like put on the window and i'm like what he's like how long were you on there for since since fucking like since fucking queen's dog like so yeah that's funny
01:11:14
Speaker
Yeah. We were the first time we went out there. So we, we built these vanities and was that all we, yeah, I think that's, we built the vanities before we ever went out to the job. So we, we loaded up, we left at like five o'clock in the morning. We're getting over the, the Verrazano bridge and it's like, all right, get on the Bell Parkway. And I forget one of us like, wait a minute, we can't get on the Bell Parkway. And also, I mean, the reason is because there's those overpasses that are like nine and a half feet high.
01:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, we could probably fit under them. But you know, the sprinter sprinters can do it. But like those smaller box trucks, you're like inches from you know why they did that. Rob knows the reason. Yeah. So they couldn't steal shit from the airport. No, it was I think it was Robert Moses. They specifically didn't want the poor people and the black people going out to the beaches. So they made them too low. So they made those. Yeah. Yeah. So they made those overpasses stone and low.
01:12:12
Speaker
He was known for a lot of that, you know, he put the highways right through the fucking ghetto. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was unabashed about it. No, I know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he wasn't very.
01:12:25
Speaker
He was kind of like that Erez Trump. Yeah, but being from that area, it wouldn't be totally uncommon to see somebody get off the Varsano and like a truck and not realize it and like lose the top of their truck. And you see those videos, dude, I've seen it. Yeah.
01:12:46
Speaker
What did I see? I mean, there's no like big like it's like totally apparent. There's nothing. It's like if. And there's parkways and expressways all over New York that you can't get on. No, my buddy. Yeah, I think Max told me the story back in the day because he used to be a P.A. on these like movie shoots and stuff or just film shoots. And he was some kid told him a story that he was in a truck. And that happened. Someone's calling me.
01:13:15
Speaker
The cool thing about the LIE is that HOV lane is two or more and commercial vehicles can drive in
Designing for High-Budget Clients
01:13:23
Speaker
it. So on the way back, like I got into the HOV lane and just like, yeah, put on the cruise control and just went like it was nice. Yeah, it's cool out there. It's cool how much money is out there and how people, you know, can some of these homes I've seen designed are just so cool.
01:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, they've got like, you know, the the quotient for taste is a little higher out there. Oh, absolutely. And it's like and it's really the idea that they have the money to give to this designer that they trust and like becoming one of those designers has gets those jobs is like the fucking. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And everybody's trying to do it like every designer wants to get those gigs because they get the biggest fucking budget.
01:14:07
Speaker
and they can buy all the wildest furniture and get all the stuff custom made and then they accept what to put their name on it and it's like imagine having three of those gigs that you did in one year on a website and then it's like boom boom boom boom boom from there. Yeah it's another one of those you know you can only do this thing if you have this thing right you don't have the budget you then you're then you're going to be buying the stuff from restoration hardware right so yeah and you can make that stuff look good for the most part but like
01:14:37
Speaker
And some people, that's what, and you know, I posted that shit of that sample yesterday and we were talking about it. And a bunch of people reached out to me and were like, oh man, that's ridiculous. Like I would flip out and stuff. And I was like, yeah, but you can't. Cause like, this is, this is the job. What's that going to get you? I'm like, this is the job that I, this is the industry. I mean, sorry, the market that you want to stay in.
01:15:03
Speaker
There is no those are the requests that you got and like you got to be able to fulfill Some requests and you got to be able to show the details properly and you have to be able to just Execute shit that like is simple and just has to be perfect and beautiful, you know
01:15:21
Speaker
And another thing about you can't do it until you do it or you can't do it until you have it is like you don't get kitchen jobs until when you do a kitchen, right? Like you can't really get a kitchen job unless you show somebody a kitchen that you've done a kitchen. We do know somebody that does that though. There's some really good salesman. What was the name of that company with the benchmark?
01:15:49
Speaker
Yeah, Rob did a kitchen and then like help the client find a guy do like the tile and we're like at Home Depot one day the dudes got Rob's kitchen on his van. I don't know. Full wrap, full custom cherry kitchen, cloud lift. Get out of here. With a figured maple paddle. I mean it was a pretty nice thing. Oh my god. I guess what I just said, I kind of take back what I just said about you need to do a kitchen.
01:16:18
Speaker
You're not gonna do a high-end kitchen as your first job if that's the case because like Unless I don't know. I mean I've been I've been recently asked to do a kitchen I'm excited about because I haven't done one and I do want to do one That's like in my kind of style like you guys have a style and yeah, yeah
01:16:35
Speaker
We've done literally we've done one kitchen. Yeah. And we didn't really get to have fun with it. Yeah. A designer came in. Yeah, it was kind of like the details were that great. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is unfortunate. But, you know, this is a white painted inset shaker. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, that's the thing. Again, you know, that stuff is harder than people think as well. Like getting the color, I mean, getting the paint and doing all that stuff. And like, there's a lot of prep work that goes into those doors and all that shit, man.
01:17:05
Speaker
Oh yeah, get everything lined up right. I mean, full on balance, cabinet sizes. Getting the doors and the drawer faces, you know, so everybody looks in harmony.
Safety and Humor in Woodworking
01:17:21
Speaker
You can't really do it without it looking in harmony because it looks like absolute ass. You can see it from a mile away. Yeah, it either looks like a custom kitchen or it looks like a
01:17:31
Speaker
handyman special yeah like a you know you got i mean you can feel it you can feel it when you when you close the door and it doesn't soft close and it fucking has that rattle in the fucking panel oh yeah we got a couple doors you don't have any snap hinges
01:17:56
Speaker
Oh, we might have to get some of those little plungers. Yeah, that was some shit. And this is funny. I was thinking about this for whatever whatever reason. It was this dude on on Instagram years ago was Australian guy. And I and I still don't know if he was messing with us or not, but he was.
01:18:12
Speaker
he claimed that if you threw a board on the ground before you joined it that it like took tension out and he started this like fucking thing like for weeks like people were also posting about it and like try to debunk him and stuff and I think he was just trolling everyone and it was in the beginning of Instagram before everybody took it super seriously and shit and I was like this guy's trolling I mean how did how is he how is he going this hardcore because he was going in like he was he was kind of passionate about it and I was like dude
01:18:40
Speaker
Are you really just playing a game? And then it came back up like somewhere. And I was like, that's so funny. Somebody was talking about it. I was like, I wonder if they think like, how are you going to tell me that you throw something on the ground, like all the tension is going to come out of it right now? Boom. It's baked into the fibers of the wood. Yeah. It's like that drill thing you see where it's like you tighten it down. You've got to back it off one click and that locks the bit in. It was it was like a total ruse. Everybody was like, they're like, whoa, like it actually.
01:19:12
Speaker
You might end up like I can't believe I didn't know that the people were like calling the wall and they're like your drills out like we don't see anything here about You know about that being a feature It there's probably a name for that where people pretend, you know, they think they believe something Yeah, it was like the backronym an acronym that's created like on you know, I
01:19:38
Speaker
that back in the old days, when I was a musician, we'd be driving around on the road in a van and people, this is in the eighties. And so you're in traffic and people looking at you and they go, who are you guys? And I'm like, you never heard of us. You never heard, no, come on, tell us who you are. And then we tell them and like,
01:19:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, I heard of you guys. Like, no, you didn't hear of us. That's a hit song, you guys. Yeah. So then we used to, you know, when you spent so much time. Right. You start messing with people. You start messing. Yeah. Can you have a few bars? You know, and they're like, Oh yeah. It goes like that. It's like, yeah, that's it. That's us. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:21
Speaker
People believe anything, I guess. Man, what was I going to say? That's like the false recall, you know, like, yeah, it happens. They're like, yeah, they're like the car flipped over.
Memory and Stress in Crafting
01:20:31
Speaker
And and then it's like the the human memory is totally flawed. It's like, oh, it's insane. I mean, like, you know, especially if you experience trauma during the thing, like you're going to fucking like remember it in a completely different way that it actually happened. Whatever. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah, that's funny.
01:20:49
Speaker
But yeah, I mean talking about that fucking video of that woman, she's cutting a circle on a table saw and she puts her hand in front. The blade is spinning towards you. She puts her left hand up there. She has a saw stop. Thank fucking God.
01:21:10
Speaker
That's all I thought when I saw that I was watching this and pure like when it happened when I first watched that I just stopped and I looked around I was like, oh man, like dude No, because this one I didn't want I wanted to watch it because I was like this is gonna be bad But I get like that black screen where it's like we're covered. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what is it? No, honestly, sometimes that stuff I sort of got I get like I get like a little thing here. I'm like no
01:21:37
Speaker
like my heart I mean my like stomach comes up a little bit but uh but this this chick's doing this circle and I think my comment to you was like why the fuck is anybody cutting a circle like this please um there's so many ways to do it with a router it's so much fucking better it's just a band saw yeah I mean like and if you don't have like any way to make it perfect draw a perfect circle
01:22:01
Speaker
Cut really close to your line and then sand it off like yeah, you're gonna have a better circle. It's gonna be safer Yeah, this her hand gets sucked into the blade. Thank God. It was all stop because in that case if your hand goes in there in that and you're don't have a zero clearance or some shit and You know
01:22:26
Speaker
You gotta remember what we're dealing with here. We're dealing with like... All of it was so, so, so bad. And her comment on it was so far from where it should have been. She was like,
01:22:41
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I guess I should be careful next time kind of a thing or like, I never thought this would happen to me. And I'm like, like, fuck, like that's like, I don't even know how to describe that. I put up the, you know, I put up a video of me cutting freehand on the table saw and I kind of did it just to stir the pot. One hand.
01:23:01
Speaker
Two handed, you know, just like a regular all hands behind the blade and like all these people like that's so dangerous. What do you mean with no fence? Yeah, no fence. Just like cutting a V out of like a piece of ply to hold the paint gun.
01:23:16
Speaker
I was just like going zing and zing. Yeah. Yeah. What the fuck? I'm like, this is safe, actually safer than any like normal cut on the table saw because my hands were behind the blade. Really hard to kick back to. Right. Yeah. Because all of the work is on the side that's going to push down. Right. Exactly. Like the saw is actually pushing the workpiece down onto the table. Really can't go anywhere, especially if you're holding onto it and you have a little bit of a feel for it.
01:23:40
Speaker
Like scribing like that is honestly the best way to say it. Oh, yeah. I mean, when I was like a trim carpenter, that's that's how you scribe. You tip the blade over to 22 and a half. Yeah. And you freehand the table. So take the garb off and like have it like that for the whole day. And that's actually kind of fun. You know, it's like almost like you're just wrong. You're just taking that line off.
01:24:03
Speaker
I think we're back. I'm not sure where, where we left off. I don't know if this continues recording when it's full. I don't know. Anyway, my desk was full and we stopped recording for a little bit. It couldn't have been long because the screen went black and that's what it popped up. Yeah. Hopefully we finished the conversation.
01:24:22
Speaker
Well, in case it wasn't there, there was a woman who dragged her hand in the table. So I think I was a SawStop and please, please, please remember that we're using very, very dangerous things. I can. Yeah. I mean, you got to think about it like it can take your life. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like, oh, you might just lose a couple of fingers. Like it could, you could literally die, especially if you're by yourself in your shop. Yeah. And if you know the artist Tom Sacks, have you heard of him?
01:24:48
Speaker
He's a cool dude, but he had this video out. It's called Ode to plywood. It's on YouTube. It's like 15 minutes or so. But it's like him in his studio in New York, like Bat Lake in the early 2000s. And he like, he picks up a sheet of plywood and he's like a piece of dog fur vertical grain plot plywood is 55.6 pounds and it like eight by four and blah, blah, and talks about all his nerdy shit. And then like, he goes to cut it on the table saw and he's like,
01:25:17
Speaker
If you're cutting plywood on the table saw and you're thinking about anything other than cutting plywood on the table saw, then shut off the table saw or go home. That's what I've always kind of said about everything. If you're not going to be fucking fully there for that little moment that you have to be,
01:25:34
Speaker
and you're upset about something or you need to cool off, like, maybe don't try that thing that you thought you were going to do. I don't know. You know, I'm just so used to doing it in any type of headspace that like it doesn't matter to me.
Mobile Woodworking Setups
01:25:45
Speaker
But like, I think beginners, if you're fucking. You had to be doing it for a while to really get the feel of all that stuff.
01:25:54
Speaker
I used to lock the door when I worked by myself, when I started in my shop behind the house there. Oh, really? Because my wife would come walking in. Oh, to distract. Yeah. You know, and I had my back to the door the way this table saw was set up. Yeah. No, I used to lock the door. Oh, my God. I had a I. Yeah. My dog fucking at the shop, dude, like knocked into my knees or whatever I was doing. I was routing something, you know, and I'm like tilting over.
01:26:25
Speaker
in a, not an awkward position, but if a dog smacks into your leg, it's to become an awkward position. Yeah, you're not expecting it. No. And then I looked down and he's covered and saw this. Like he loves to let the shit like shoot into his eyeballs. I guess German shepherds are nuts. Yeah.
01:26:44
Speaker
Did we talk about, oh yeah, maybe we missed, unless we missed it. We were talking about the trim carpenter thing. Oh yeah. That's where you were going. Yeah. Right. Like in let you, you were saying, unless you had that experience as a trim carpenter. Right. And talking about experiences from this thing that leads to this thing. It's like also with this theme where you can't do it unless you have it kind of thing.
01:27:07
Speaker
You don't get ideas about shit until you've actually really gone through the paces of a lot of different stuff. A lot of different stuff, like categories of work, styles of work, different materials, just all these methods.
01:27:25
Speaker
Yeah, you're not going to hit it out of the park on your first table, you know, unless you just copy some shit that totally exists already and you know it's going to work. You either got lucky or you're some kind of savant. Right.
01:27:37
Speaker
And we're talking about when this dude would come to your shop to Millwood. I had all festival in Brooklyn. I didn't have any big machines. I bought the smallest versions of those machines. And that's what I was working with. And I wouldn't want to show anyone my shop. I didn't want a big designer to come to my shop because I was almost embarrassed by my lack of machinery.
01:28:04
Speaker
Even though I was getting the jobs done perfectly, I mean, not perfectly all the time, but like for the most part, I was doing the best job I could with what I had and, you know, gained the reputation that way. But I was able to basically take my entire shop if I needed to and move it to a job site and then bring it back in the same day. And the only bigger machines I had was like Laguna 18 inch bandsaw that, you know, that doesn't need to go anywhere. And one of those big 20 inch disc Sanders that didn't need to go anywhere.
01:28:34
Speaker
So there was one time where we were on site for like a month and a half and no one went to the shop for that whole lot. Like I didn't even go in it. Like everything I owned was on site. Yeah. Like you were like joining stuff with a TS 75. Pretty much. Yeah. Every like I was making full on like nice tables that are still being used everywhere all over the place that I use the T 75 to joint them every single board. Well, sharp blade.
01:29:03
Speaker
Pretty much got a new panther every time or, or it got a sharpened obviously, but like, uh, yeah, I would keep like fresh blades for that thing. Cause we used it for almost everything and like had two of them at one point. Um, no, I got, you know, one of them broke, got sent back, bought another one because I had to make something. That's how I have a bunch of doubles of tools now.
01:29:29
Speaker
But yeah, I don't know. I was making something the other day, that prototype for that chair for that flat pack collection. I had five routers out, five bits.
01:29:41
Speaker
Just one person, you know, like I had a couple of trim routers. I had the two plunge routers and I'm just like, yeah, that's kind of like what woodworking a lot of it is is routers. Like, yeah, you can do almost everything with a router. We try and steer away from the routers, but really just not a fan. We use them mostly for that. We're just like, you know, edge treatments, but
01:30:05
Speaker
I just, I don't know. There's some about, I don't like the mess it makes. I got it. Yeah. That's, I'm not saying that they're not, not good to use or, or, uh, yeah, for
Routers vs Shapers
01:30:15
Speaker
sure. But it's just, we just try and not use them if we don't have to use the shaper. Right. I mean, that's a big fucking dust collection. Yeah. Power feeders are dope. Shapers are the coolest thing ever. Come in and spit it out on the other side. Those like making those Steve shell.
01:30:32
Speaker
like Cooper table legs. Yep. Nine degree angle. Got a MT toolco. Shout out to him. Got a shaper cutter. I got shaper cut, nine degree shaper cutters made and I added a light, you know, I was like, let me get a little bit extra. Just so that glows for the glow, that glue closes up.
01:30:52
Speaker
those are dope they work perfectly yeah yeah we have to get a head for the shaper that can take the knives we have we get hussy knives from him when the hussy is an archaic tool it really sucks to use i kind of only wanted one because it's a william and hussy and i just like love the logo but like in the market you got room in the van huh you got room in the van we go i do have room in the van but i don't want it now
01:31:15
Speaker
I want a different one the feed rollers never go down far enough to write Yeah, he's a beast with the hooking on it with that thing he's got the curves
01:31:30
Speaker
like he's like the curved door master just constantly curved top doors really figured out and I was amazed by something he did and I want to talk about he shrunk that thing did you see what he did he made the door
01:31:48
Speaker
whatever his curved lamination, it shrunk. So when he brought it to the job, it was fucking, it was like two inches small or whatever. I didn't try on each side. And he was like, Oh fuck, like what do I do? You know? And I was like, I was watching him. I'm like, what are you going to do here, dude? Like, cause like, I didn't even say anything, but I was kind of like, I'm like, I'm watching him. Cause I know he knows what to do.
01:32:10
Speaker
He got parking in front of the job that day. That's why it happened. Yeah, it's like you can't have like oh right exactly There was an open spot right there and then everything he forgot the door, you know But you know the doors too small. I'm like, how's he gonna do this? He made He fucking plunge routed the curve on the inside on the back Like deep grooves basically curved out the entire sorry. I keep hitting this thing
01:32:39
Speaker
um, curved out the entire back and stretched it out and then put it back on the jam. Yeah. And I was like, yo, that was fucking magical. Yeah, man. He, he's good, man. Yeah. And he just moved into a new shop. Uh, yeah, maybe six months before us, his old shop was insane. Yeah. Like literally like he had like six and a half ceilings or something tall for that place. Yeah.
01:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. Tim, when are you coming out? Because I know you want to come on the show. Oh yeah. I'm sure he's got some stories. We did. We had them on the first season. Yeah. I think it was episode 26.
01:33:16
Speaker
What's his background like? Was he like a framer dude and then he turned into this guy? I think yeah, that's how he originally got in. Yeah, that's me too, but. He was like, you know, going back a couple years. He seems like the dude that like, they're like, can you make this? And he's like, yeah, definitely. And then he's like, me, where I do. I'm like, ah. He's like, now we gotta figure this out. Wait, I do, but I don't.
01:33:36
Speaker
It was like the one, like going back like a couple years, like one day he's like literally like lifting a house. Like he's underneath the house, jacking up a house. Then he's like building like some crazy door. Yeah, he's doing like the f***ing coped windows and stuff. I'm like, dude, I'm like, you do everything. Did you do that by hand too? Or like? Yeah, man, he's the man. Who else is the man? F*** me. That more school.
01:34:05
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. We've been a couple of jobs for Zach. Nothing's nothing's hit yet, but we'll see. It takes a while sometimes. Yeah. He's a busy boy.
01:34:20
Speaker
Yeah. A Jersey City grind. So I asked him about the parking space thing. Yeah, yeah. Because I was so confused because he kept posting these videos of people getting towed who pulled behind his van and I was like, how's this work, dude? Like, is there a sign there that says like the park behind Zach that more than you get towed?
01:34:37
Speaker
I'm like, who do you know? And then he's like, no, I pay for two spots in it.
Logistics of Urban Woodworking
01:34:43
Speaker
And like if someone parks behind me, I can't get anything out of my van. So I call I call them and they come in like they're not they they're supposed to tell it. I don't know. I don't know how they how they and then I said, how are they supposed to know that though, dude? And then I don't think I got much of an answer. So we'll have to clear that up. We'll have to clear that up another time. So he pays for two spots on the street. Yeah. Right in front of the job site. OK.
01:35:06
Speaker
Like on that park mobile though, you know, where you just punch in your... Right. I don't know how it works. Jersey City is an interesting place for parking. I'm like, compared to like, honestly, even compared to just like Brooklyn and Manhattan, it's like harder to find a spot.
01:35:22
Speaker
Oh, my God. We did a job on Maxwell Place in Jersey City. We had to pay everybody, Manny, to sit in the van because no parking. The building had no parking. Oh, dude, I fucking I used to keep like a like a garbage can in my truck and I would just put it over.
01:35:45
Speaker
It's like not paying like those like it used to be you can have a parking ticket for like a couple weeks and if you didn't pay it they don't now I think it's like six to ten days and then they start to
01:35:59
Speaker
Accumulate. Yeah. The penalties did an install for the shop where we used to work in Midtown and it was like, it was like $85 to park for the day. Yeah. And that's what's a $12 spot or whatever. And if you pay like more, it costs more. I really should be getting a discount. I know I did the fucking math. I was, I had a job on like a 31st on the East side and third, I think.
01:36:24
Speaker
and parked in front every time and it was commercial parking zone. And it's like 1295 an hour or whatever. But then if you do four hours, it's like 55. It's some crazy shit. And then I would just do it because I was like for the convenience of it. And I was like, you know, running the show and jumping back and forth in the car, running, grabbing this, doing this, making sure people had the material. And then I'd end up at the job until 9 PM doing other shit. And then
01:36:54
Speaker
Go out there. There'd be a somehow there'd be a ticket on my car even after I'm paying for the parking side You know I'd forget fucking ad like Then look at my bank account and be like I spent a thousand fucking dollars like in two weeks on that shit something like that
01:37:10
Speaker
And you don't think about that when you're first pricing jobs. I mean, I've missed so much stuff when I first started pricing stuff. Now I really pay attention to it. But like, yeah, if we have to like, if you contact us and you're in in the city, you're getting the fuck you price because it's it's such a hassle that unless like we really needed the job, there's no reason for us to like give you the regular price because it's just, you know, the toll is alone. Just going when we went to Brooklyn to pick up the thing, it was like
01:37:40
Speaker
50 fucking 50 bucks. Yeah We only went a mile into well, honestly for me It's sick because I all the work I get is in Tribeca West Village or you know here and there I go to Brooklyn is very rare at this point and The West Village is right there right out of the tunnel and Tribeca is even one one turn out of the tunnel I got a job is literally the first turn out of the tunnel wasn't a you know, massive apartment building right there, but I
01:38:07
Speaker
Those are those feel for me because like driving around it's like I take 78 out
01:38:14
Speaker
And it's like an hour and a half home. So either just you get there like right after rush hour. And if it's a close, and if it's in Tribeca, you don't have to like go deal with all that other city bullshit. Cause Tribeca is like a little village kind of feel, but yeah, that's been great having those types of gigs. Cause that's where all the money is
Challenges and Rewards in Woodworking
01:38:34
Speaker
anyway. Yeah. Yeah. When you're paying, you know, $8,000 a month in rent, then the prices don't sound so bad.
01:38:43
Speaker
Like, what do you mean this cabinet's 20 grand? It's like, well, it's like too much rent. Well, what do you think before, before we run out of more disc space, should probably wrap it up. Let's do any questions. Yeah. Let's see what we got. They were, um, they weren't really anything groundbreaking. We got from Tommy Apple.
01:39:11
Speaker
Is that his real name? These are Instagram names. How many miles a week do you need to drive? How many miles a week do you need drive?
01:39:20
Speaker
Do I need drive? I need drive miles a week. I don't pay attention to it. Honestly, sometimes I fill up my van like three times in a week. Honestly. Yeah, I was talking. I was just, I was, oh man. Yeah. You were telling me how many miles are on your van. I bought mine with a, I think we have 5,000. I bought mine with like 168 and it's got two 18 on it now. And I put like 3000 of those on it since like December. We'll have it for two years in, in August.
01:39:50
Speaker
I was going back and forth to the city for like a full month and then, you know, I've taken on a few road trips and I just, I do, my shop's 30 minutes away, but it's like, in the, in the speed limit, it's like 55 the whole time. So it's like, that's at least, I think 22 miles, 24 miles. So it's a good, no, it's not that much, sorry. It's probably 16, 17, but it's a good, and I take the long way. It's a nice little commute. I drive through the fricking, drive through the farms and stuff on the way.
01:40:17
Speaker
drive along the river and then you go up the mountain and then it's just like pastures and shit. So it's pretty, it's idyllic. Here's one from Andres Massey Millwork. Yeah, yeah.
01:40:30
Speaker
How many times a day do you just sit in the van and scream? Oh man, I've been going to therapy twice a week so now I'm good. I've been talking it out honestly but I recommend that for everyone if they're having any issues. Yeah. But yeah, I used to flip out quite a bit honestly because it was stressful. A lot of shit is stressful for me and I didn't handle it well and I've found ways to and yeah.
01:40:58
Speaker
I think I didn't process a lot of things properly and I also I do have ADD and that definitely affects the way that you just you know accept certain things that are happening you know and you can and it'll make you kind of
01:41:15
Speaker
It'll make you kind of avoid things that are very important in your life. I got a wife with full fledged ADD. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and like, I have that pretty bad and like, I take Adderall now. I wasn't for, I just started and it's helped me incredibly amazing. But, um, yeah, I don't scream.
01:41:36
Speaker
in the event. We got one here from Steve Cooperstein. Hi Steve. Digital 3D drawings or did he draw by hand and then execute the project?
01:41:50
Speaker
I am drawing by hand and I'm giving it to Jeff Kruger. But yeah, a lot of my ideas are very much in my head. I can most of the time make something without making a drawing. When I'm making something for a client, obviously my standard operation is sell the job with the drawing sort of as that.
01:42:15
Speaker
part of that. Most of the time people ask for it, and even if they don't, I want them to know exactly what it's going to look like from my perspective. And if they want to change anything about it, I will hopefully lead them in the right direction of something that I would kind of
01:42:31
Speaker
Approve us, but I'm gonna cover your ass, you know, hopefully this is what you're getting Yeah, you can't really you can't really come back on some of the you know Especially with the renderings now like, you know, some of these things are people still ask. They're like hey, man You got any one of the any of those shit in the closet somewhere I could buy like that's a fucking rendering brother like you know, like you can't tell I mean some people I
01:42:52
Speaker
They don't think about it as that. This thing gets like screaming hot. It's like if I'm working with it on my lap. Yeah, they're working over. And this I mean, it doesn't have a lot of RAM. I have to get it. I have to get an upgrade. But yeah.
01:43:05
Speaker
Yeah, so that's it. Yeah, I don't I don't know how to do any of the CAD stuff, but I definitely want to learn as pretty Soon enough, you know, so it's not too bad with the new company I want to be able to draw stuff and be able to have it Programmed and stuff like that. Well, like I told you, you know The stuff that I draw for you is definitely more outside of the box than the stuff that we typically draw So it's pushed cubes. Yeah.
Encouragement and Risk-taking
01:43:29
Speaker
Yeah ours is very rectilinear
01:43:30
Speaker
that bunk bed was fun you know yeah that you know like and you kind of so I had to figure you know kind of like what I kind of told you what it was gonna be and I drew it and like this totally shitty way totally fucking drew the worst thing I was almost embarrassed to send it to you but it was you talk to another furniture maker cuz I'm still in the blanks you know I mean right and I'm like well it's six four hot top tall and this is the footprint and this is the depth and like
01:43:56
Speaker
You totally just bring it to a place where I'm like, yep, perfect. Or no, not at all. Or, you know, most of the time we're definitely never at the no, not at all stage. But it's like doing a bid. A lot of times you just got to throw some and see if it sticks and then just to see what about you is that you also you kind of like you kind of like send it without asking too many questions. And I think that's kind of like a good thing about woodworking is
01:44:18
Speaker
Really kinda like building the confidence is saying okay i'm just going for this. And then you have to kinda. Get it there without knowing and that's why we're saying yes these things that were not really sure how to make because we know we have the ability and the like you know the driver whatever the ambition.
01:44:36
Speaker
But it's also like becomes this vision that you have that you want to say, OK, I made that for whatever reason, or I've been thinking about making that or whatever, bringing something to life. It's the only way to get better is to do things that you haven't done. Absolutely. I got one here from Matt Vis, IKAG Vis. Favorite use for the lamello?
01:45:01
Speaker
I just started using it to design well to design with incorporation Incorporating it into the flat pack furniture line that I'm designing which I have been thinking about using them because I've always seen a little melon I just I just started owning one in like December and
01:45:19
Speaker
Honestly, which is fucking wild because I wish I bought it at least two years ago because of everything I could have assembled with it to make it my life easier. If you just posted more on Instagram, you get one for free. I doubt that. Is that right?
01:45:35
Speaker
I know they asked Tommy Farrick to be their international sales rep. They asked him if he wanted to drop everything woodworking and be their guy because he's so passionate about pretty much everything, but the lamello he fucking loves. We met the guy. He doesn't like us too much. He definitely doesn't like me because I got into it with him in the DMs. About what?
01:46:00
Speaker
You know, they just post like guy like putting on like an end panel. It's like just screw it in from the inside. I'm like, nobody's doing this. No real, no real cabinet maker. Woodworkers doing this. I'm like show. Yeah. You know, it's like some sort of bullshit. It really is total.
01:46:16
Speaker
He's like, well, you know, we like to show all the good ideas. I'm like, well, this is all you're showing is. Anyway, don't know. It becomes like a tool. Fuck show. But this is a good one. I think probably to close on. Is there a market? This is from beer circles. Yeah. Is there a market for small furniture makers that haven't been published a lot? And then maybe you can give some advice. Market for small furniture maker. Is he asking
01:46:42
Speaker
for the small furniture maker? Is there a market for small furniture makers that haven't been published a lot? Is there a niche that these people can fit into?
01:47:18
Speaker
I really think so.
01:47:19
Speaker
at that time. And now I'm really starting to make what I want to make. Yeah. And that's almost a feeling that I never thought I would have, you know, I never knew what a goal was with this, but now I'm starting to see like a full on vision for it. Like we know what we were talking about first was where do you see yourself kind of thing. And to be completely honest, I see myself in a very similar place, but with this new furniture line happening, I want to totally explore and see where that can go.
01:47:48
Speaker
And there's different markets within the market and there's different styles within each of those markets and there's different price points within each of those markets. And if you're a good local furniture maker who can do it for the price that you can do it for.
01:48:03
Speaker
You're going to get a gig, you know? And if you're getting really good, then your prices go up. And if you're getting better clients and then, you know, and if you're freaking sought after and you have a six month waiting list, that's the goal. You know what I mean? Then you get to pick what you make. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're just chilling, really, because then you work for yourself. It's a great fucking living. It's super gratifying. I mean, it's fun. You know, I have fun every day and.
01:48:28
Speaker
I totally like honestly like it's a lifestyle thing it's all it's everything it's like super fun for me I swear to god it's just like every day I'm challenged and I definitely like love the feeling of like accomplishing the thing that's in front of you and you built it and it's like standing upright and you're like okay that wasn't there yesterday and now it's there and like it's exactly what's supposed to be
01:48:53
Speaker
You know, so who's ever thinking about dropping the saw, pick it up because it's like, don't do it for money either. Like if you're not making money, that doesn't mean shit. I didn't make money. You know, we're still sometimes not making money, but like, you know, we're fucking relationships help too. Yeah, definitely. You know, nurture relationships, like make connections with people you fuck with and like designers that are cool. And if you have an aesthetic, people are going to see it. And if you have a vibe,
01:49:24
Speaker
And if you're a cool person, you're going to get in the room, you know, you got to be socially intelligent. You got to be like, that's a good point. And you got to go all in. You know, if you're going to half ass it, there's nothing going to work out, you know, like the quote I posted, which, you know, hey, posting quotes, my sister does it too much. Sorry, Steph. But I love you.
01:49:46
Speaker
I posted, if you're not thinking about it in the shower, then you probably shouldn't be doing it or something like that. And that's like the David Goggins kind of shit. Yeah, the best of the worst. That's where the fear strikes. Right. Right. The anxiety or the cool idea that's happening? I didn't think about this part of the job. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the other morning when I came in. Oh my God, I've done that too many times.
01:50:07
Speaker
packed the track. So, and then Jeff says, Oh, I already packed it. We both didn't have it packed the night before. When you're both, you both look at, yo, yeah, that used to happen with max quite a bit where we would both kind of like write our own list in our head. And then we'd get in the van and be like, what did I forget? You know, cause I knew I forgot something and he would have to be like on it a little bit more than me. Cause like,
01:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, leading up to install. So I got all the ideas. I got all the fucking like plan in my head how it's going to be executed. And if that's not like your wheelhouse, then you're going to be having you're going to have to be worrying about some other shit. Yeah. Making sure that it's all there. I'll have the reminder going. It's like at 7 a.m., remind me to pack the ladder and then it and then it's packed the ladder and the track saw it packed the ladder and the track saw in the caulk. And it just grows, you know, it's like make sure you have caulk in the like driver's side door.
01:50:56
Speaker
panel and then make sure you have some under the seat because I think you might lose that. Oh man. So what do you think? Got any closing words for the listeners out there? I don't know. Thanks for having me again. Definitely a pleasure. Love what you guys do. Totally. Keep it real. I'm loving the Jersey vibes out here. This is a very interesting town. Oh yeah. Kingsburg. I got that fucking
01:51:27
Speaker
They had a grand reopening, I think recently, that place. No, we haven't been there. There's a Mexican spot over here. That's real good. Rico Taco. Rico Taco. Yeah. Next time we're going to go there. Menu's all in Spanish. Yeah, man. Keep doing your thing. Like don't let anybody tell you anything. You know what I mean? Like if you want to do it, it's all to you.
01:51:51
Speaker
Good advice. I like that. Well, you know, we appreciate everybody listening. We'll talk to you next week. Take care. Later. As always, Rob and I, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you next week. If you want to help support the podcast, you can leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You can join our Patreon or you can use one of our affiliate links in the podcast description for vesting finishes. Again, we appreciate your support. Thanks for tuning in.
01:52:36
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain