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#95 - Scarlet Bahr | Talent Sourcing @ Personio
122 Plays1 month ago
Scarlet is a Sourcing Leader with 9 years of experience and recently built a Sourcing team for Luno including systems, processes, and scaling the team. Above all, she is essentially a ‘Sourcing Nerd’ with an immense passion for the industry and my job.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
02:00 - Applications of Talent Intelligence
15:30 - Complex Roles and Candidate Sourcing
25:00 - Effective Use of Historical Data in Sourcing
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scarletbahr/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: [email protected]
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Talent Intelligence
00:00:00
Speaker
Today's guest is called Bar.
00:00:06
Speaker
So in in in regards of the talent intelligence as in sourcing, I always found this the most interesting. um How did you saw a talent intelligence function operate? And what real life problems did they solve?
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah,
Applications of Talent Intelligence
00:00:29
Speaker
so and there's ah there's a lot of different applications of talent intelligence. So I think again, you have to understand kind of what's the need, like what what are you trying to to solve for? and And often it's kind of a lack of candidates or maybe and where to and even kind of more to down to more granular questions like where should we open this role? What job titles should we have, and you know, how should we advertise it, et cetera, et cetera. So um also things like salary and things like that, am also very helpful and to have ah have a good grasp of. So um where I've seen talent intelligence work really well is first of all, kind of and when you have like evergreen pipelines or particular skill sets or industries that you know you're always going to be interested in as a business.
00:01:21
Speaker
and mapping out the market in terms of, okay, where exactly does this all of this talent exist? we Where does it not exist right now? But it might exist in kind of two years time. So for example, you know, keeping track of different places where they might be nurturing talent and on your behalf, for example. And and then making that data and and understanding super accessible. Could that also be, let's say in that case, what you did?
00:01:48
Speaker
um Talent is maybe not with certain technologies in a certain region, but there are some companies to work with certain technologies and the assumption is that maybe in two to four years time, there is a certain amount of candidates that most probably have a certain knowledge and expertise um because the assumption is that over the time,
00:02:17
Speaker
they will work on certain or with working with certain technologies in a certain company, in a certain on a certain challenge, that then this gets a relevant candidate with the relevant experience that you could utilize in a certain team you will need to hire. Is that the case? Yeah. So
Monitoring Hiring Trends
00:02:36
Speaker
for for example, and I guess and for a solid example that I think might might help, this makes sense. and If you have a technology that you know that is of um particular interests of business and it's not super common in the market. and You can essentially ah through different methods like simply Googling or also having things set up like RSS feeds, having an understanding of who in the market is hiring that talent as well. So for example, if you have a company which all of a sudden is hiring for this specific tool or technology, and you know keeping an eye on them essentially and i'm watching them or junior and
00:03:15
Speaker
they're more junior staff and and also the people that they're bringing into the business to know that, okay, so maybe in, maybe not right now, but maybe in a year or a year and a half's time, we have a really great pool there. And and not losing that that information and and not losing that knowledge and is more challenging than it sounds and because you know recruitment moves really fast and retaining knowledge for it for a year or more is is not as straightforward, especially when you know we're living in environments typically where tools change, like maybe you're using notion and and then you're using something else. So andm keeping track of of that i and knowing that knowing where your pools are and where they are developing and can be really powerful. And also you can use things like and ah you can pull kind of all of the knowledge that people gain through speaking with candidates. So for instance, if you're speaking with a candidate and you hear about, you know, a company that, and for instance, isn't
00:04:13
Speaker
isn't paying bonuses or whatever the case is, and understanding how that can affect the the talent force kind of internally, knowing which are the kind of, you know, and which are the ideal kind of and ideal candidates or prospects within that company that that would be of most interest to you and and using that that knowledge to the to the best of of your abilities. so You're basically then starting with monitoring of companies and then you look into the company um on the team members and then maybe you already have some conversations with them, early conversations, just that there is a face to it and you have already um
00:04:49
Speaker
a contact right um and then just monitoring it. And then you have a list in terms of, let's say, a database where you know, okay, in a certain period of time, I will reach out with may way more specific intent to poach them or to hire them. Exactly.
Scarlett's Sourcing Journey
00:05:09
Speaker
Scarlett is a real sourcing heavyweight and did sourcing for um technology roles at Facebook for four years. um I moved to LUNO and now it is doing sourcing at Presonio and we really talked about how to spend time effectively as a source of what excellence in sourcing looks like and also how to really feel that complex roles where it's it seems and feels impossible to just fill the role.
00:05:38
Speaker
Then you can build trust and then you can spend less time communicating and more time just getting shit done. Then I went home and and thought about this sentence. We basically put it on the table. Hiring takes time. People are trained. How to objectively judge certain situations. It's very, very, very, very hard to change things. That was the learning. Entrepreneurs with empathy. To the people's side. Scarlett, great to meet you. I remember we had an organized a dinner in London and then um You got recommended to me as a person that I really need to talk to and now we are sitting here doing a podcast. Yes, great to great to meet you. I'm i'm sad. like I couldn't come to the dinner still. but yeah next time Next time, definitely. But maybe we start with a short introduction about yourself. Yes, yeah, absolutely. and So I am Scarlett. I'm currently a um
00:06:26
Speaker
senior sourcing partner at Personio, where I'm working ah mainly on our business roles, so anything from kind of finance, legal, people, all the way through to kind of and sales, and marketing, partnerships, pretty much any anything that comes under the the business remit I will get involved with.
00:06:47
Speaker
and Previous to that and I've been in recruitment in general since about 2014 so pretty much a decade now which is scary to think about. and I started my my time in agency and and and went on to a gaming company.
00:07:04
Speaker
um called Playtech, who create kind of some of the the kind of back-end software that that a lot of the gaming companies use. And um then I started, I guess, my ah sourcing focus career at Meta, or Facebook as it was at the time. They changed their name about a week after I left, and I still i haven't got used to calling them Meta.
00:07:24
Speaker
and and um And yeah, so there is really where I kind of learned my sourcing craft, I would say. Learned a lot about what great sourcing looks like, and went through a lot of changes with them because they were in kind of a hyper growth stage in in London while I was there. and Went through a lot of reorgs um and learned to kind of roll with the punches a little bit while while i was ah I was at Facebook and learned to adapt to change very quickly.
00:07:52
Speaker
and And then I eventually left Facebook after about four years and to join LUNO, which was a crypto company where i um ah where I built a sourcing team. So I tried to kind of take everything I'd learned and apply that into a very, very different environment, and which was definitely a bit of a baptism of fire, but I learned a lot and I had a great time doing it. and Until unfortunately, ah during the time of the the great redundancies that we saw across recruiting, and I had to leave LUNO.
00:08:22
Speaker
And um that's how I find myself at Presonio. Nice. Yeah. And I think also when we had this first call, we talked a lot about operational excellence in sourcing and you saw definitely different environments. um And maybe we can dive a bit into what different sourcing orgs you saw? For instance, maybe we can start with a regional aspect. um Do you think it makes sense or what are the differences between a central versus regional structure?
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So
Sourcing Structures: Centralized vs Decentralized
00:08:56
Speaker
and I suppose theres there's a few different sourcing structures and that that you can build or that kind of typically exist. and i've seen I've seen a lot of them. I've been part of ah a lot of different structures. um And I i think the the main difference would be to First of all, figure out what the aim of your your sourcing team is. right Is it to fill as many roles as quickly as possible? and you know Is it all about volume or is it to really find the best candidate for the role? Do you want to build like a ah best-in-class kind of sourcing function where you're really kind of finding the right talent? and I think different
00:09:32
Speaker
Different models have different advantages, but but essentially, at its essence, it's decentralized and and centralized um sourcing. so and And that typically can refer to sources either being and kind of deployed in the recruiting teams themselves, so reporting into the recruiting manager and kind of working within the kind of whatever verticals you have set up, so whether that's kind of business and tech or whether that's regional set ups.
00:10:01
Speaker
and or you have a centralized sourcing model where all of the sources are part of one team together and and they um and then they're kind of and ah more of a dotted line and into the recruiting teams. and You can also have a hybrid of those, which I think is kind of more of ah what what I'm in at the moment, where you have kind of ah decentralized sourcing teams, but are kind of centralized in pockets. so You have kind of business and tech, for example, and you have sources deployed in those specific areas, but within kind of small centralized sourcing teams. So there's still, you get kind of some of the benefits of of each of those models. But really, I think and the benefit of ah of a decentralized model where sources are directly working in the, in the recruitment teams is that you would get, um,
00:10:55
Speaker
you know you would have the sources working a lot closer with ah with the with the teams themselves. um So they tend to kind of have a better relationship with with recruiters a lot of the time. and They feel kind of more part of the the overall team and and you can you can gain a lot of knowledge that way. I think a potential drawback of that is that you really need, or maybe a drawback or a positive is that you need a really, really strong leader in those instances.
00:11:23
Speaker
that understand sourcing really well and and kind of what great sourcing looks like. Because if you're a source of reporting directly into a recruiting manager, it's really important that they understand kind of how to... What do you think should... um what What should be the attributes of a really good sourcing leader? Because
Qualities of a Great Sourcing Leader
00:11:40
Speaker
I saw this position sometimes in companies, but more towards global businesses that have, I would say at least five to 10K of Headcount.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm but i'm probably ah potentially a bit biased here, but I think sourcing leaders are really, really powerful to help build great sourcing culture, to help kind of sources understand and you know all of the opportunities that are available to them kind of within within the role itself and and and develop them as well as as great sources rather than just kind of mini recruiters. and I think for it to be a great sourcing leader, you have to have a really deep understanding of sourcing itself. um you know Where can you add value because it's not always just simply kind of through the active sourcing, right? There's a lot of areas where sources can add value, whether that's through kind of talent intelligence or also kind of and understanding how to scale past yourself as ah as a singular saucer and how can you kind of help the recruiting team.
00:12:42
Speaker
pass just the candidates you find. So kind of being able to impart some of some of that knowledge is super helpful. and But also, and I think it and there's a lot of complexities when it comes to sourcing that haven't been figured out yet, because there's there's not a lot of sourcing functions. It's still, I would say, new-ish in recruiting to have a really great sourcing function. So there's things like how do you kind of assign roles to sources?
00:13:08
Speaker
how do you manage capacity? What kind of KPIs should sources be working towards? Because you know and for instance, how do you recognize what a great hire is and and and how do you reward ah quality as well as quantity, and which is often what sources are focused on, really, really great quality hires. So and I think there's a lot of complexities and to to leading sources, which is why I think like sourcing sourcing managers are really, really, ah really beneficial and super useful.
00:13:39
Speaker
and And I think they can take kind of a good sourcing function and and make it a great one when you have someone that really understands those complexities. In case you like my show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it. So in in in regards of the talent intelligence as in sourcing, I always found this the most interesting. um How did you So a talent intelligence function operate. And what real life problems did they solve?
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, so and there's ah there's a lot of different applications of talent intelligence. So I think again, you have to understand kind of what's the need, like what what are you trying to to solve for? and And often it's kind of a lack of candidates or maybe and where to, and even kind of more to down to more granular questions, like where should we open this role? What job title should we have? and You know, how should we advertise it?
00:14:42
Speaker
et cetera, et cetera. so um Also, things like salary and things like that, am also very helpful and to have ah have a good grasp of. so um Where I've seen talent intelligence work really well is, first of all, kind of and when you have like evergreen pipelines or particular skill sets or industries that you know you're always going to be interested in as a business.
00:15:06
Speaker
and mapping out the market in terms of, okay, where exactly does this all of this talent exist? Where does it not exist right now? But it might exist in kind of two years time. So for example, you know, keeping track of different places where they might be nurturing talent and on your behalf, for example. And then making that data and and understanding super accessible. Could that also be, let's say in that case, what you did?
00:15:33
Speaker
um Talent is maybe not with certain technologies in a certain region, but there are some companies bring to work with certain technologies and the assumption is that maybe in two to four years time, there is a certain amount of candidates that most probably have a certain knowledge and expertise because the assumption is that over the time,
00:16:01
Speaker
they will work on certain, or with working with certain technologies in a certain company, in a certain on a certain challenge, that then this gets a relevant candidate with the relevant experience that you could utilize in a certain team you will need to hire. Is that the case? Yeah. So for for example, and I guess and for for a solid example that I think might might help, this makes sense. and If you have ah a technology that you know that is of um particular interests of business and it's not super common in the market. and You can essentially ah through different methods like simply Googling or also having things set up like RSS feeds, having an understanding of who in the market is hiring that talent as well. So for example, if you have a company which all of a sudden is hiring for this specific tool or technology, and you know keeping an eye on them essentially and i'm watching their more junior and
00:17:00
Speaker
you know, they're more junior staff and and also the people that they're bringing into the business to know that, okay, so maybe in, maybe not right now, but maybe in a year or a year and a half's time, we have a really great pool there and and not losing that that information and and not losing that knowledge. and is more challenging than it sounds and because you know recruitment moves really fast and retaining knowledge for it for a year or more is is not as straightforward, especially when you know we're living in environments typically where tools change, like maybe you're using Notion and and then you're using something else. So and keeping track of ah of that i and knowing that knowing where your pools are and where they are developing and can be really powerful.
00:17:42
Speaker
And also you can use things like, and ah you can pull kind of all of the knowledge that people gain through speaking with candidates. So for instance, if you're speaking with a candidate and you hear about, you know, a company that, and for instance, isn't isn't paying bonuses or whatever the case is. and Understanding how that can affect the the talent force kind of internally, knowing which are the kind of you know and which the ideal kind of and ideal candidates or prospects within that company that that would be of most interest to you, and and using that that knowledge to the to the best of of your abilities. So you're basically then starting with monitoring of companies and then you look into the company um on the team members and then maybe you already have some conversations with them, early conversations, just that there is a face to it and you have already and a contact, right? um And then just monitoring it. And then you have a list in terms of let's say a database where you know, okay, in a certain period of time, I will reach out with may way more specific intent to poach them or to hire them.
00:18:49
Speaker
Exactly. So you know we there's there's typically, for instance, kind of in different companies, there might be specific industries that are of you know but you know of more interest to you because they're more relevant to your and and you know to to the roles that you're trying to hire or the specific kind of skill sets, whether that's kind of SaaS or you know experience working with cryptocurrencies or you know blockchain whatever whatever the case is whatever the specific kind of um talent that you're looking for or having an understanding of where where they sit and what's happening within that kind of market and within those companies and knowing so having whether that's kind of
00:19:29
Speaker
a Slack channel or I actually think Slack channel is maybe the worst place to do this. So maybe that's a bad example because I think it's, you know, it's hard to retain information there. Or even, and you know, a chart on Notion where you can tag specific companies with So if any recruiter speaks to a candidate from X company and they find something out that's potentially useful for you know future and future negotiations or and future reach outs, they can just input the information there, tag that company, um and then everyone in the team has access to that knowledge to use their future. hey And then if you hear something, and you know say they're making redundancies or whatever the case is,
00:20:11
Speaker
You can go and have a look and have a look at all of the knowledge that your team has gained and on that company and you know your your kind of top ah top prospects within that company in one place.
00:20:22
Speaker
and that um That's also important that you are then retained in the business. right I saw that youre iran four years at you were around four years at Facebook. right so do this when you stay a certain extent of time, because I think you build the relationship with the candidates personally and not Facebook has it with the candidate. Of course, legally, maybe yes, but on a personal level, no. So that's also, I think, valuable that you you are retained and you're kept motivated and happy in a certain role, um that you can even utilize all the assets you build, right?
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess and that is that it's true and it's always been true with recruitment, right? that That you're always going to build personal relationships with candidates. I think the benefit of making those notes or making kind of those and that those findings kind of and available for everyone in the team is that essentially it in theory takes away some of that and some of that risk in terms of people leaving with that knowledge and and not having it kind of and accessible anywhere. So by building this kind of and
00:21:37
Speaker
I guess this ah this culture of kind of talent intelligence sharing, and you actually mitigate some of that risk of somebody leaving and taking away all of that information with them and and not having it retained in the business. So as much as obviously I would like to be retained, wherever I am, and I actually think that it it serves the opposite. So making sure that you' you build this culture within the whole team, recruiters and sources, and and anyone who's actively speaking with candidates or anyone who's actively kind of ah working in the market and has kind of ah an understanding of of what's happening in the market, making sure that that's documented somewhere and that's easily accessible to everyone takes away a lot of that risk. Hiring for
Strategies for Hiring Complex Roles
00:22:20
Speaker
highly complex roles. You did it. um
00:22:26
Speaker
How did you do it? What is different to, I would say, regular roles? So when you give us a bit more context and walk us through um hiring for highly complex roles, that would be super interesting.
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I i think and this is actually my my favorite thing about sourcing, right? i'm Looking at a role and thinking that potentially it's impossible and finding the exact perfect candidate is is like my dream situation. and i've I've worked on complex roles for the majority of my career. The place that I really kind of first found my niche was working with and but all the way back in my agency days, working with National Air Traffic Services or some really, really niche aeronautical technologies where you know I'd be tracking down people that wrote e-books in order to ask them if they knew anyone about different pieces of technology and that kind of thing. That's the type of thing that gets me really excited about sourcing.
00:23:25
Speaker
And at Facebook, we had a lot of those really complex roles, often with language requirements and and extensive travel requirements also. So things like you needed partner facing engineers who also had telecommunications experience that would be working extensively throughout kind of rural parts of Africa, ah but would also have to speak French, for example, and or German.
00:23:48
Speaker
and because they are working with kind of our European telecommunications partners. So and really super complex roles and that required both technical skills and also ah partner facing skills, which is is a challenge within itself, even when you take away all all of the other requirements. So I think my typical approach, and and I think most people would have heard this before, is to obviously go and look for that exact person, right? So you start with, maybe there's only 20 in the world, right? But you start there.
00:24:19
Speaker
Um, and you, you try and kind of, even if it's just building a relationship with those people so that, um, rather than going straight for the, straight for the kills, as you might do with, with other, and with other roles where you're just reaching saying, Hey, I have this role. Like, do you want to chat about it? Um, having a bit of a softer approach, um, and just talking to them in general, maybe about their, um, their career aspirations, you know, um, uh, looking at other places they've worked and who they may have worked with and trying to you know get some referrals from them also.
00:24:50
Speaker
and understand kind of ah digging in and really understanding their skill set and where they learned it and then you have an opening and in terms of finding out who else might have learned those things as well alongside them.
00:25:03
Speaker
and But yeah, a lot of it is is ah is about playing about a lot with Booleans and really, really having to have a ah good understanding of of how your Booleans are performing. And and um rather than getting lost in the sourcing, having a really good kind of and clear understanding of where your quality candidates are coming from and how you're finding them is really powerful in in that situation but kids and because it means that you can then replicate or then you can have some understanding of of rather than just sourcing and it's really easy to get lost in sourcing and build on your searches. and then I think that's also a critical point um ah also in terms of expectations towards the business.
00:25:48
Speaker
X role versus let's say a regular role. what can you do but How can you manage the expectations in terms of how many hires can you do in terms of this complexity and also what might be the time to hire, what expectations you set, how do you utilize data or how do you report? This would be also interesting on how to deal with that. Yeah. yeah So
Importance of Communication in Sourcing
00:26:10
Speaker
I think is ah ah everything as a source is about and super, super clear communication. Like if you think you've communicated something enough, just do it one more time. Basically is is my motto. So I liked nobody to be in any doubt about ah what I expect from the search. And then as I go along, exactly how it's going versus expectations. And then also at the end, I also think it's really important to to kind of summarize that and and document that.
00:26:37
Speaker
the how the search went somewhere. So the next time you're not starting from scratch. and So for me, I think it's ah before you start the search, I always like to present a little bit kind of about the market, what candidates exist, where they are, can we reach them, kind of what's the ah what's the average tenure of those people and how many of them might be might be ready for a move, et cetera.
00:26:59
Speaker
If you can have that information, that's always really, really helpful. and Also, and understanding of diversity within the market is always helpful if if you can gain an understanding there to see to see what the possibilities are. and and you know Say, for example, if the market is 15% diverse only, then you know that you'll maybe have to put more of ah more of a focus there in your searching.
00:27:23
Speaker
and so um So yeah, so it's about super clear communication and being really upfront um so and understanding the data in order to communicate that elsewhere. and I think I've actually shared with you a um a sheet that is an older example of a sheet that I used to keep on a weekly basis. And and here you can you can see that I've used and historical information and and in some places pure guesses, because we don't always have historical information, right, on exactly how many, and how many pre-screens, how many team leads, how many, and I actually can't remember the terminology that I used to use, so how many pre-screens, how many business screens, how many full loops as we called them would lead to a certain
00:28:10
Speaker
and you know filling filling the role, and having an accepted offer. And I would track, as as I go along in any searches, exactly where I am against those numbers, against those predicted numbers, and and make sure that I'm on track. Because you know as a source, you have to be quite tight on your ah on your timings and and make sure that you're not, say for example, doing kind of 100 reach outs for a role that actually you might only need to do 24. So having an understanding of that data can help you in for like, you know, advise the hiring team on exactly how long it might take and and also and and what they what the candidates might look like, what the market looks like in general. and But it also helps you understand how much time it's going to take you so that you know how many other roles you can work on at the same time and and helps you manage your capacity as well.
00:29:01
Speaker
ah definitely In case you have any feedback or anything you want to share with me, please send me an email on thomas at peoplewise.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. And in case you really enjoyed the show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it. And um first you mentioned also, you can get lost in sourcing. So give us some tips um on how to spend your time effectively as a saucer.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, so
Effective Time Management in Sourcing
00:29:32
Speaker
I think it all starts again with that ah without understanding of your own capacity. I'm a big believer in managing my life, my working life through kind of screens. I think screens are always going to be really the bottleneck as a saucer. Like you can spend unlimited time sourcing really, ah you know, you can spend all week sourcing but really your bottleneck is always going to be the amount of candidates that you can screen in a week. So I always like to linchpin everything I'm doing around and how many screens is that going to take me because then I know if I'm working on four roles each of them are going to take you know 20 screens. I know exactly how many weeks it's going to take me to fill those roles. and Obviously then you can start having conversations about and
00:30:20
Speaker
you know Maybe if they want the role to feel quicker, maybe you need recruiter support or you know another sources jump in and do some of those screens or whatever the case is. Let's let's say a regular role that um gets the attention of a source is usually already a bit and more hard to fill or specific role usually, right? So for that type of roles, how many screens do you on average maybe calculate and in order to make it higher? You said, let's say roughly 20. And how much time?
00:30:48
Speaker
um And reach out, do you plan in order to get to that 20 screens? And yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah. So I would always, always have a look at historical data if it exists. So I would always try and have a look at what's been done previously to to help me with those numbers. Cause often actually you will find it quite different across roles. It won't always be the same. Say if you're working you know on some of those ah you know technical partner facing roles, it would be very, very different to, for example, some of the sales but you know, pure sales roles I'm working on now. So I think it's really important to always let historical data guide you where you have it. I understand that that's not always the case. so and but and But that would be my first port call. do Do we have an understanding of what's happened in the past? and Or, you know, if I've done it in the past, great, I can use that. and So
00:31:40
Speaker
I would look at things like reach out response rates, how many were positive, how many were neutral, kind of and how many screens came from a certain amount of reach outs in the past if if that data was available. if not look at general response rates to have an understanding of like how many I might need to do. But I think it's also really important to understand that even when you do all that research, none of it is ever going to be set in stone. So it's about staying, really, really staying on top of that. So say if you had estimated, okay, I need to do 50 reach outs to do 20 screens to, you know, then ah have however many ah team lead interviews.
00:32:14
Speaker
if you're If you start doing it and two weeks later you look back and the numbers aren't adding up, then it's about looking in and understanding, okay, so... like where are candidates falling out or am I getting really poor response rates? Is it my reach out? and is it um Is it the fact that actually I'm reaching out to the wrong people, like I'm speaking to people but parts of my screen because I'm i'm reaching out to the wrong type of talent? So not only can that those numbers and having an understanding or or an estimation of what your pipeline should look like help you educate the hiring manager and also manage your own capacity, but it also helps you flag when things are are going
00:32:48
Speaker
ah when and things are maybe not going right or when you have an area that you need to go back and have a look at and and refine. and So all of that all of that together I think is super helpful for for any saucer and that's why I think kind of having having that um estimation at the beginning um is is super important before we start working on any more.
00:33:09
Speaker
ah Definitely. um I think that would also be a final word because a word we are at the end of the time already. Mr. Scarlett, thank you so much. We could talk um for another half an hour and maybe we can do another episode around it. um I really, really got a lot of out of it and thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much. Yeah, I really enjoyed it and that that went super quick. ah Definitely. Thanks. All right. Take care. Bye.