Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Leslie Chats with Marco Margheri on Europe’s Energy Anxiety, U.S. LNG Reliability, and the Future of the Transatlantic Deal
87 Plays23 days ago
At a moment of growing tension across the Atlantic, Europe is quietly questioning one of its most critical assumptions: can it rely on the United States as a long-term energy partner?
In this timely episode of Energy Vista, Leslie Palti-Guzman sits down with Marco Margheri, Chairman of the World Energy Council Italy and affiliated with ENI in Washington, DC, to unpack Europe’s deepening energy anxiety and what it reveals about a rapidly shifting global order.
This conversation goes beyond gas molecules. Leslie and Marco dig into:
- Why Europe’s post-war assumptions about codependence with Russia, China, and the U.S. are no longer viable
- The emerging role of oil and gas companies as strategic actors in an era of geopolitical volatility
- Why Italy’s energy diversification strategy offers lessons for the rest of Europe
- How the U.S.–China AI and energy race is reordering global priorities, faster than Europe may realize
Candid, thoughtful, and unscripted, this episode is a must-listen for anyone trying to understand where European energy security is heading and whether the transatlantic relationship can adapt.
🎙️ Recorded on January 22, 2026.
#EnergyVista #EnergySecurity #Geopolitics #LNG #TransatlanticRelations #Europe #USA #EnergyPolicy #Competitiveness #NuclearEnergy #MarketIntelligence #Trade #AI #Gas #LNG #Nuclear #China #EuropeanUnion #Italy #Russia
Follow and Read Me on my Substack Newsletter: 👉 https://lesliepaltiguzman.substack.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Energy Vista Podcast
00:00:06
lpaltiguzman
Welcome to Energy Vista, a podcast on energy issues, personal and professional trajectories, a podcast where we make experts great again and contribute actively to the public debate and policymaking around commodities, trade and geopolitics.
00:00:24
lpaltiguzman
I'm your host, Leslie Palti Guzman. Today is January 22, 2026 and time for a new energy episode.
Introduction of Marco Margheri
00:00:32
lpaltiguzman
I'm delighted to be joined by Marco Margheri, who is among different titles, Chairman of the World Energy Council in Italy. And he will discuss today under this hat, but he's also affiliated to ENI, ENI, in Washington DC.
00:00:50
lpaltiguzman
And knows all about Europe, US relations, public affairs, government policy, energy policy. So I'm very excited to have this discussion at a critical moment in transatlantic relations too.
US-Europe Energy Relations Advocacy
00:01:03
lpaltiguzman
and But before that, I wanted to mention that for years I've been advocating for the US not to shoot itself in the foot by aborting too soon its energy bonanza.
00:01:15
lpaltiguzman
With its rise as an energy power, and notably due to the Shell Gas Revolution, it has been a huge competitive advantage for the US at home for its economic growth and also abroad in its relations with ah trade partners.
00:01:33
lpaltiguzman
a huge diplomatical advantage. But now I'm a bit worried and that the US could shoot itself in the foot by undermining its relations with key energy partners, notably Europe.
00:01:47
lpaltiguzman
However, I'm still very optimistic because if we look at the facts and at the data, the US is still doing everything to encourage exports and has never, ever weaponized exports of LNG. g Yes, there is a use of economic coercion in terms of trade tariffs, but it hasn't impacted the energy flow.
00:02:11
lpaltiguzman
And also, let's face it, Europe needs US energy. It needs US Shell to LNG exports to have a functioning economy And we'll discuss that this a little bit more in the podcast. um But I'm wondering also, why is Europe freaking out so much these days? There is definitely the Greenland saga in the background. But even before that, Europe was worried and anxious about an over-dependence on US exports. And sometimes I'm wondering if if it's not over-exaggerated, overblown, and who does it benefit?
00:02:50
lpaltiguzman
Are there some voices who want Russian gas back? Are there some voices that want to create actually divisions between Europe and the US? um So all these are very interesting to me. And I'm i'm both European and American. So i'm very, you know, have long and supported transatlantic relations and advocated for strong transtic transatlantic relations because I think, you know, they are democratic countries that are inspiring the world.
00:03:19
lpaltiguzman
And i still believe that the us is a better place the world is a better place when the US is the policeman of the world and where freedom, enlightenment prevails. So many questions and I'm excited to discuss some of that today. Hi, Marco.
00:03:34
marco
Buongiorno. Thank you for having me.
00:03:35
lpaltiguzman
Good morning.
00:03:37
marco
Well, you're setting the very high standards for our conversation.
00:03:37
lpaltiguzman
Terrific.
00:03:40
lpaltiguzman
A bit more philosophical and deep, but um let's let's start a little bit more granular. And European energy security following the war of Russia against Ukraine,
00:03:55
lpaltiguzman
has profoundly changed um even before the Greenland saga, right? There were already discussion and uneasy discussions in Europe about replacing a dependence on Russian gas with a dependence on gas.
00:04:13
lpaltiguzman
Do you think right now, um you know, some of the assumptions that we had for the past three years have been broken? and in are there already discussions to rethink your European energy security?
00:04:29
marco
Well, in the in the picture that you've been drawing, i think there is the explanation of where ah in many European capitals and in Brussels, the sense of the debate stands.
Historical Energy Dependencies
00:04:44
marco
Europe was relying, every European has been trained in the idea that after World War II,
00:04:53
marco
the global order was an order of, especially in the quote-unquote West, interdependence. And that Europe could run the sense of codependency on multilayered strategies and on multilayered relationships in a very smooth way.
00:05:17
marco
And the codependence is where politically, with the United States of America and with the United States platform for global security.
00:05:30
marco
Energetically, with the web ah pipelines and historical energy relations that were formed even at the peak of the of the Cold War with the Russian Federation and that were the backbone of the Ostvende and of the Ostpolitik in key economies, especially in Germany.
00:05:52
marco
And also, I have to say that this vision has informed in the in the year 2000s and onwards, the sense of codependency with China and a a sense of ah safety when Europe was relying on Chinese manufacturing and industrial capacities, a sense of safety granted by the platform of global trade.
00:06:18
marco
Now, all of these all of these senses of codependency are challenged. They are challenged, obviously, by the Russian invasion of Ukraine that has broken the tie of codependency and that has proven that there were flaws in the dependence model that Europe had ultimately also economically thrived upon.
Challenges in European Energy Policy
00:06:41
marco
So this has exposed a number of hypocrisies and a number of actually ah conflicts, internal conflicts in in in many in many policies at the national levels, especially I would say in Germany, will we can come to that, but also at the European level.
00:06:57
lpaltiguzman
Thank you.
00:06:59
marco
And obviously it has challenged the main concept of of the European energy policy and the overall set of targets that we had. Then the second victim of of this new era was a sense of security of relying on Chinese manufacturing platforms forever and without consequences.
00:07:21
marco
We discovered that Europe had left to the to the Chinese producers entire supply chains that were absolutely essential to not only conquer our own targets, but conquer the future, obviously solar.
00:07:37
marco
But then the trigger was the trigger of awareness was when we saw German cars being overwhelmingly replaced by Chinese manufacturers.
00:07:47
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:07:49
marco
And that's, we're speaking, 14 million jobs in Europe, in the automotive industry alone. And now, and i'll and I'll stop here, but now the Greenland saga, as you as you mentioned, fits into a broader picture in which the sense of unbreakable bond in the transatlantic relationship is, i would say, challenged in a philosophical way when it gets put on an equal footing on all different transactional relationships. Europe is not used to treat the US and the friendship with the US as a transactional dimension, in a transactional dimension, as a tradable aspect.
00:08:37
marco
So I think there are costs
00:08:38
lpaltiguzman
so So Marco, yeah to clarify what you mentioned by layers and the different sectors of the transactions, you're you're saying that basically now the US and Europe have to look at their relations like with military lenses, with energy lenses, with the mineral lenses. um you know the So you're saying that they have like the whole relationship is is systemic basically. Like they have to look everything in as a whole or you can still transact by sectors, by layers.
00:09:15
marco
Well, we are now in the point in time in which the US administration, I would say the US as a country, it precedes this administration, but obviously with this administration is putting on the table big questions of rebalancing.
00:09:30
marco
The US has a new role in pivoting to Asia. And this was since President Obama. The the the leading from behind speech was in 2010 in Al-Aqsa, Cairo.
00:09:42
marco
And we are 16 years down the line. But today, obviously, President Trump is facing Europe. with fundamental questions, and he's asking for a transactional approach that Europe is not prepared to fully adopt yet. So this is clearly creating a set of issues. But if we look
US-Europe Energy Ties
00:10:01
marco
into the actual, if we look into the box, we see that ah political ties are still incredibly strong. We still have NATO, and and and and actually Davos really was ultimately a rekindling
00:10:16
marco
of the value of NATO in this alliance, ah economically, the ties between the two sides of the Atlantic couldn't be stronger. Politically, and and and I would say in in a societal way, they couldn't be stronger.
00:10:32
marco
So i to your point, we live in an era where we need to strike good deals and we need to understand how relationships will grow.
00:10:43
marco
ah Energy is a backbone of this future relationship. Europe is the first market of US LNG, and the US is the first LNG supplier today and for the the foreseeable future.
00:10:55
lpaltiguzman
Yeah, I think data to this point, I mean, Europe increased its imports of LNG in 2025 by 25%, I think, compared to last year, ah reaching like more than 100 million tons of LNG imports.
00:10:56
marco
no
00:11:09
lpaltiguzman
And it represents, so ah yeah, US LNG represents 56% of LNG imports
00:11:19
marco
So it's it's it's massive. So I have to say there is ah a moment of rebalancing. There is a moment of reconstructing a new order.
00:11:29
marco
But the underlined business ties, societal ties are there. And they cannot simply be forgotten in in the political conversation.
00:11:39
marco
And and and we're...
00:11:39
lpaltiguzman
yeah do you think Do you think there is sometimes an over-exaggeration on how unreliable the US can be as an energy partner?
00:11:41
marco
Please.
00:11:49
lpaltiguzman
And um like for me, I really don't equate the Russia gas weaponization with US s economic leverage in energy trade. did do do What do you think of this?
00:12:04
marco
Well, the US, as we know it for decades, ah is a system where business is business and government is government.
00:12:17
marco
And that also applies to the energy sector, even if this administration is clearly providing more and more attention to the political framing of energy deals.
00:12:29
marco
but actually deals in the US are struck business to business. Whereas when we go to other places of the world, obviously there is a government to government deal, And that government to government deal has across the board a government to business ah conversation that that that that clearly goes on. Let's think of how national oil companies, also active in the gas sector, are structured in key suppliers in key suppliers of Europe. So the concept of reliability still hinges on the US as a whole, as a system, being the platform
00:13:10
marco
for dollars as the main currency used in transactions in the world, as the platform for the rule of
Need for Stable Energy Framework
00:13:19
marco
law and contractual sanctity, as the platform for ah regulatory and political stability.
00:13:19
lpaltiguzman
Thank you.
00:13:27
marco
and And in one way, I believe it is legitimate for Europe after the shock of having to reckon with its own mistakes and with its own overlooking dependence on Russia as a big issue, now that Europe pivots away, there is a legitimate sense that we have to create a long-term framework where the US and Europe in the energy sector are connected and are connected in a solid and stable and predictable way.
00:13:59
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:13:59
marco
I'll give you an example.
00:14:01
marco
and a great personality that is that that that we should have listened more to in Europe, I believe, that is Ambassador Dick Morningstar, who toured Europe as ambassador to the European Union and his special envoy for energy to promote energy independence and diversification, etc., etc. he ah He also championed the EU-US Energy Council.
00:14:28
marco
The u US s Energy Council was born at a point in time in which Europe and the US s were together on the buyer side of the table, really.
00:14:38
marco
And we're discussing the bigger picture.
00:14:38
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hm.
00:14:42
marco
Now, the US, EU-US Energy Council does not have a business component, which instead is obviously an essential backbone of energy discussions that will be that will be held in the future.
00:14:58
marco
And let me add one element here. We're speaking of a common passion for natural gas and LNG and how markets work. But Europe is also trying to focus a lot on other energy sources that can compound the role of of natural gas and LNG.
00:15:18
marco
Take nuclear, for example.
00:15:20
lpaltiguzman
Yeah, of course. i mean, diversification is the word of the game these days.
00:15:24
marco
Correct.
00:15:24
lpaltiguzman
a
00:15:25
marco
So where does the U.S.
00:15:26
lpaltiguzman
Diversification of energy sources, all kinds, and also diversification of gas and oil supplies from different sources.
00:15:27
marco
speak to?
00:15:33
marco
So the the question is, where does ah the US fit in that technology picture? And I believe that if we look into all the key technologies that the energy system in Europe will rely upon, there is ah transatlantic technologies energy technology space that needs to find its own way beyond the the trade disagreements and divergence.
00:16:01
marco
And so...
00:16:01
lpaltiguzman
Actually, I was wondering if ah the nuclear lobby in Europe, I mean, it benefits the nuclear lobby in Europe to push for this narrative of kind of the US is unreliable and kind of overreacting to each rhetoric from the White House to show how you know it's important for Europe to accelerate its strategic autonomy, energy sovereignty, and and try to decouple long-term from the US on this energy energy interdependence.
Nuclear Energy and Transatlantic Cooperation
00:16:37
marco
Well, let me say, i don't want to downplay how important it is that our American friends um and partners understand that Europe exists, that the European Union exists.
00:16:53
marco
And it's not a treaty that is being constructed by chance or on specific matters. That there is a fabric, a European fabric, that is in the interest of the transatlantic relationship to to preserve.
00:17:12
marco
And I'll give you an energy example. There is a clear role of the European conversation and for European capitals to drive a new nuclear renaissance, be it in large in larges scale nuclear, but also, and most importantly, on the priorities that America and the US government, including this US government, especially in the new Energy Dominance Council initiatives has had.
00:17:42
marco
And I'm speaking infrastructure and I'm speaking
00:17:42
lpaltiguzman
you
00:17:45
marco
SMRs and I'm speaking fusion when when it will come on stream commercially. All of these things
00:17:52
lpaltiguzman
And it's a huge opportunity for transatlantic cooperation because Europeans have expertise. There are still European companies, not only in France, for instance.
00:18:02
lpaltiguzman
I mean, because at the end of the day, Russia is the largest exporter of nuclear plants, I think, and China is building the most plants right now. So, you know, there there is huge opportunity for the transatlantic allies to kind of compete with with them.
00:18:20
marco
Agreed, and and and and honestly, again, it's in the interest of the transatlantic relationship itself to have a coordinated view from Europe. if let let me Let me say this.
00:18:33
marco
If there was a coordinated view from Europe today, ah the energy policy of Germany would still encompass nuclear.
00:18:42
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:18:42
marco
and that is that is definitely key aspect. Now, to your point, it is true that in many European capitals, I wouldn't say it's i wouldn't know whether it's one lobby or another, but there is this sense of angst, this sense of skepticism, vis-a-vis the new world.
00:19:03
marco
And there is also the need to recognize the role of gas in a way that was ideologically sort of put under the carpet ah at the European level.
00:19:15
marco
So all of a sudden, we really have to have a multi-step reckoning.
00:19:15
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:19:19
marco
We have to be we have an awakening on the the severing the ties with Russia. We have an awakening on the role of gas that will stay even if demand is is clearly staying is sluggish over the past years. We clearly have a role of gas for the foreseeable future and we need to nurture strategic long-term relationships with gas producers, starting from the US energy.
00:19:48
lpaltiguzman
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:49
marco
And there are crucial areas in the energy technology business where we need to project European manufacturing capabilities.
00:19:49
lpaltiguzman
Hmm.
00:19:57
marco
My own country, Italy, is the second largest manufacturing company in Europe. We absolutely have the skills, the the competencies, the technologies to play a major role in the new energy technology landscape, including nuclear.
00:20:16
marco
it is sounder and better and more fulfilling if there is a coordinated European approach. And I believe, again, this is also in the interest of Washington.
00:20:23
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:20:26
lpaltiguzman
Yeah. Sometimes it makes me think a little bit like the Cold War, except that now, you know, there are two big powers, the US and China, and Europe is trying to find a third way, not aligned necessarily.
00:20:38
lpaltiguzman
um But it's a tough, you know, road to navigate um because the US is increasingly, I think, requesting full alignment.
00:20:49
lpaltiguzman
um You know, you're with us or you're against us in a way. um But I wanted to we mention a little bit the oil and gas companies and, yeah.
00:20:58
marco
but Let me make you a quick point on on on the question of China. Now, there are areas where China has built a capacity that is serving the world.
00:21:10
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:21:11
marco
i I am not sure it would really be a sensible ah but policy to start redesigning, the reinventing the wheel.
Competition with China in Energy Technology
00:21:23
marco
on solar panels, the the degree to which China has established global leadership is hard to beat if we want to maximize the the effectiveness of this technology.
00:21:23
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:21:36
lpaltiguzman
Yeah. And that's why the US is focusing on other energies where they can have still have the competitive advantage and the full control of the supply chain.
00:21:45
marco
I think when we move to the supply chains of the future or to fast-evolving supply chains. And I also add batteries in this spectrum because obviously batteries have been growing immensely and Chinese capacity is significant. but we're also seeing an incredible set of technology advantages there that can still be built.
00:22:07
marco
So there is an exponential curve on on on the improvement of of battery technologies.
00:22:07
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:22:11
marco
There, Europe and the US cannot give it for granted that they don't have a role to play.
00:22:16
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:22:18
marco
Take Pax Silica, the new the new AI and digital transition framework that the US is bringing forward from critical minerals through refining down to, let's say it's a well-to-wheel approach.
00:22:33
marco
Europe needs, and European countries are already there. They're not the only ones. But I believe that the European single market, the European the industrial and technology platform has to play these things in a coordinated way.
00:22:49
lpaltiguzman
Yeah. You know, like I feel sometimes that for the US, what is like a top priority these days is um the AI race with China, securing energy resources, minerals to feed this race, basically.
00:23:08
lpaltiguzman
And I don't think it has completely sinked in in Europe, like this sense of priority. um And, you know, like the Venezuela episode, which in part has been driven also to acquire some of ah the resources you know but Part of it, I think that the White House now is also using and embracing the energy companies as really strategic tools for its energy dominance agenda.
00:23:40
lpaltiguzman
And yes, it's still private companies. There is no US state owned company, but increasingly they are viewed as an extension of US diplomacy.
00:23:53
lpaltiguzman
And, you know, ENI in Italy, for instance, has also had a critical role to play after the war in Ukraine, has have you know contributed to the diversification of supply for Italy, for instance. Do you increasingly see new role for oil and gas company in this kind of more volatile geopolitical world?
Italy's Energy Diversification
00:24:15
marco
Well, lety let me separate two answers to to this. I'll start from the latter part of your of your reflections. Italy...
00:24:27
marco
moved fast in 2022, thanks to the initiative of the government, which was enabled by ENI, which is, as you mentioned, the company have the honour to serve here in in the US. But it leveraged on and on a stack of existing relationships that were built in North Africa and in Sub-Saharan Africa, and obviously also also in in the US, ultimately.
00:24:51
marco
So there was an approach that was prepared Let me remind ourselves that Italy did have the infrastructure in place and actually moved fast on adding some LNG capacity.
00:25:04
marco
But it did have the Southern Corridor that was the last diversification route built in Italy. It had connections with Vibia, it had connections with Algeria via Tunisia.
00:25:12
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:25:16
marco
It had already some LNG facilities connecting Italy with global markets. it The same cannot be said for the critical platform of Germany.
00:25:29
marco
And the same cannot be said when it when you look down from from Brussels to a coordinated vision for Europe. We have plenty of LNG capacity, of Riga's capacity in Spain that was completely bottlenecked by the lack of interconnections with with France and could not really provide the solution of where it was needed.
00:25:43
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:25:51
marco
So
00:25:51
lpaltiguzman
yeah And as a reminder for a listener, I think Italy used to be one of the largest buyer of Russian gas and in Europe.
00:25:58
marco
that is correct. and we could And we could do minus 50 the first year, minus 80 the second year, and minus practically everything and the the third year. And let me also be specific here. We really replaced those long-term molecules with a long-term strategy and outlook.
00:26:19
marco
so Today, I believe Italy is, frankly speaking, presenting a good example of how you can deal with this and and how you can think to ah to a robust and strategic vision for energy policies.
00:26:35
marco
And Italy has been, i think, overlooked in its efforts historically to diversify its relationships.
00:26:43
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:26:43
marco
But but let me build on this to...
00:26:46
lpaltiguzman
and And if I can mention something here, ah is that interestingly, Italy has diversified a lot with North Africa and the rest of Africa.
00:26:46
marco
ah to
00:26:55
lpaltiguzman
So Algeria, Libya, Egypt, even some um exploration, I think, around Cyprus. So East Med, and then in Africa, Angola, Mozambique,
00:27:10
lpaltiguzman
and
00:27:10
marco
Congo. Congo.
00:27:11
lpaltiguzman
Congo. And interestingly, not the most in US shell gas in terms of gas resources. Or I mean, is it because of the geography? North Africa, Africa is closer to Europe, um you know easy to ship um the molecules.
00:27:28
lpaltiguzman
How do you think of, or it's, as you mentioned, like strategic historical relationships that have helped?
00:27:35
marco
Well, historical relationships clearly were there and they were long term. In the case of Italy, they are embedded in the actually in the DNA of of key companies starting from many, of course.
00:27:40
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:27:50
marco
And there are there is a set of reciprocal knowledge. There is a set of technology at plate crucial role in establishing operational excellence that was particularly valuable in those contexts where Annie had already thrived.
00:28:10
marco
So I believe there that this comes from a historical background and that the the shape of the of the industry, let's say the strategic strategic outlook of the industries was was different. So I believe that explains. But you also ah mentioned and I think it's a very interesting and important point, how the role of the energy industry is, i wouldn't say novel, but it's enhanced with
Energy Companies in Geopolitics
00:28:43
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:28:44
marco
with the Trump administration.
00:28:45
marco
And I would say, number one, you have got great energy competencies in the administration. And when I say energy, I mean the sector. i'm not I don't mean specific clusters of the sector.
00:29:00
marco
There is an all out understanding that energy needs to work as a system and that the politics, policies and the agency to operate on the ground, to really to download this in in real actions, a need to cooperate and work together.
00:29:17
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:29:24
marco
So there is a role, I believe, for energy companies on and a number of those years and there is I think an understanding of how also, let's say, in in legacy energies and in new technologies, are the the public hand and the private hand really have to communicate better.
00:29:44
marco
I believe that Brussels is a progressively taking stock of how ah the public hand and the private hand in the past have not communicated well enough.
00:29:59
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:29:59
marco
And it's not only with energy companies, again, the automotive sector. Imagine we had to go we had to go to the near drama to repeal the the the target of way of wiping out an industrial capacity of Europe, which was internal combustion engines, and really instead adopt a technology-neutral decarbonisation approach where you can have biofuels and e-fuels and all areas where Europe is also very strong to you know plug into that back backbone and ensure that it has a a role in in in the energy transition. I believe this is ah this was a...
00:30:47
marco
This was a mistake in the in the European construction. and I think on both sides of the Atlantic, a better dialogue can can only be can only be positive in terms of setting the right targets and setting the right policies.
00:30:56
lpaltiguzman
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:00
lpaltiguzman
Yeah, I totally agree. And I've seen it it in a certain way for shipping, like looking at the decarbonization of fuels used for shipping. It cannot be done without taking into consideration the the just the ship and what's feasible in terms of technology today, tomorrow, and how fast. um And there are so many dimensions of the puzzle. So I think Brussels is really good at giving the directions.
00:31:25
lpaltiguzman
But sometimes it doesn't always match with the market um and and the technology available.
00:31:31
marco
You know, I'm old enough to have been in Brussels when the the emissions trading scheme was was starting. And I do remember that the initial learning phases were actually marred by the design of the of the policy set itself, because you had the emission trading scheme that was the backbone of decarbonisation, but then you had piled it up with specific technologies, specific directions, set of targets that were conflicting.
00:32:05
marco
That was the beginning of the mistaken approach.
00:32:09
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:32:09
marco
setting a clear target for making the energy transition in in Europe ah functional is a good thing. But then mandating the ways that markets should should work was ill-conceived.
00:32:25
marco
And it it it would be ill-conceived in any scenario. So today we are in a position, i believe, in which the European policymakers are realizing this.
00:32:37
marco
ah I think it was a little overlooked because it's a little nitty-gritty-ish for those who love the European process. But when we went to the discussions on the CSDDD and the discussion on simplification, what was he c incredibly interesting is that the European Parliament, which is typically the most stubborn European institutions when it comes to dragging one's feet on and on opening to private sector views, it was the European Parliament to be, quote unquote, harsher than the Commission, in slashing, in asking for slashing those areas in the CSDDD that would not work.
00:32:51
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
00:33:20
marco
And I think it's a maybe a little, but it's an important signal that something in the mood in Europe is changing out of fear, out of uncertainty, out of maybe too much anxiety in some cases, but I believe that a strong reaction.
00:33:29
lpaltiguzman
Yeah.
Europe's Focus on Competitiveness vs. Green Activism
00:33:37
marco
I'm i'm a good reader of the Draghi report and
00:33:40
lpaltiguzman
I was going to say, I think one of the maybe key drivers for this new front pragmatism in Europe could be like this new priority of competitiveness.
00:33:53
lpaltiguzman
Like I think it finally reached the top policymakers in Europe that that should be the priority and potentially even above green activism and decarbonization. And I mean, that you know, if you don't have a functioning economy, there is nothing left for you to to try to make it greener.
00:34:13
marco
I had an interesting conversation, and friendly, apologies, I will not name the names, but with a very, very senior leader of the European Union.
00:34:25
marco
And they came here and had a number of chats in in town and then had dinner. And the first thing that I was asked is, how come Washington seems to be the capital in the world where the Draghi report was read with with more attention?
00:34:43
marco
And my point was, well, maybe reread it and, you know, maybe just act on it because there is a big issue. If you look into European experts, and again, I'm very sensitive to manufacturing. I'm very sensitive to how the products that we can imagine on on technology, on on mechanical excellence, on steel and specialty steels, on specialty chemicals, and obviously coming from Italy in everything that that appeals to global taste. Well, um this needs to remain one of our strengths. And in the European Union, they're now sluggish, whereas in in in the US, exports have been
00:35:30
marco
significantly growing. we need to take We need to take stock of the lesson that the U.S.
00:35:32
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:35:36
marco
has given us on driving growth. I believe that the U.S. should absolutely continue understanding that global growth is underpinned by playing a cohesive role in the world and not a divergent role in
00:35:56
lpaltiguzman
Well, it's also a very good message, Marco, what you're saying that Europe is taking stock. Europe is gradually changing and understanding, you know, the big priorities such as competitiveness. And because I think, you know, right now in Washington,
00:36:12
lpaltiguzman
Washington still care about Europe, but it has a certain idea of Europe or a certain idea of where Europe should head. And so I think you know this um this narrative that you know Europe is taking action, i think should the should make its way to to the White House.
00:36:33
marco
And I believe that Europe, you know, I'll give you one example where it's particularly evident that if the transatlantic communication works, we're stronger, both of us, and if it doesn't, we're weaker.
00:36:48
marco
And it's the relationship with third countries. Now, clearly, now that the global order, I will not dig into these two high-level conversations for me. But now that the global order is in reshaping, you clearly have the two global ambitions of the U.S. s and that of China, but you also have the emergence of crucial players.
00:37:16
marco
You mentioned AI. How can you think to AI in the future without thinking to what the Gulf is doing? And actually, to your previous ah point on on the role of IOCs, but oil and gas companies. Well, let's look into what the energy companies in the Gulf are doing spectacularly to foster new technologies, the energy transition, but also investments in the broader picture of the of the new digital plus energy future.
00:37:49
marco
Well, Europe clearly has a set of relationships, a set of ties, a projection towards the MENA region, that was second to none.
00:38:02
marco
And that was also underpinning the sense that ah NATO and the US s providing the security platform through Europe and with Europe was also granting the US a better projection in those environments.
US-Europe Cooperation in Africa
00:38:18
marco
Now, if we diverge, what remains of, for example, the projects of reshaping supply chains for critical minerals from sub-Saharan Africa.
00:38:18
lpaltiguzman
Mm-hmm.
00:38:29
marco
If transatlantic partners do not work together, we have the good example of the Lobito corridor, maybe the only a project that has transitioned from previous administration into a priority of this administration.
00:38:44
marco
But if we don't work together on those corridors, IMEC, P-TECH, which has been
00:38:50
lpaltiguzman
I was going to say, i make yeah. Okay.
00:38:52
marco
which has been a great priority of this administration. If we don't work together there, these projects lose relevance to third parties. We need to work together on Africa, we need to work together on the Middle East. and and And I believe that this is something that has to happen with more pragmatism on the European side, but also has to happen with with keep with keeping hold of the transatlantic relationship here in DC.
00:39:24
lpaltiguzman
Good. Well, I hope you're right about Europe changing. And thank you for on this optimistic note. I'm just going to ask you one last more personal question.
00:39:38
lpaltiguzman
How do you feel these days as a you ah European in Washington DC? Have you seen the change? how How do you think the what's the mood?
00:39:49
marco
ah it's ah It's a complicated question to answer because, number one, apologies for putting myself at the beginning of this answer, but I'm Italian and I'm a pro-European Italian.
00:40:03
marco
I believe that believing in Europe has granted my own country with great opportunities. So, first of all, being Italian in DC today, is a great thing.
00:40:15
marco
there is This is continued through different views of the world, through different administrations, through different policy lines, but there is a great appreciation of ah Italy from the personal dimensions to obviously the lifestyle, ah to more the role that Italy plays as now significantly and impressively a beacon of stability in Europe, something that as a kid I was not really used to to imagine.
00:40:33
lpaltiguzman
yeah
00:40:46
lpaltiguzman
And your prime minister is well seen right now.
00:40:49
marco
yeah and And I believe that Italy can be absolutely instrumental in also channeling this idea that Europe as a whole is a fabric that is not there to be unraveled and and and and and dismantled.
Value of the European Union and Transatlantic Ties
00:41:06
lpaltiguzman
her
00:41:07
marco
and And here, I believe that there is a conception in many in in in in the Washington arena that still lacks understanding of the European Union. The European Union is a very complicated institution. We all know that.
00:41:25
lpaltiguzman
Sometimes slow but eventually get things done.
00:41:25
marco
oh
00:41:28
marco
and And ultimately, what the European Union has done really bears value to build the future. It has brought people together, leaving them different, leaving them in with an individual dimension, but also keeping them together on the fundamental choice of the future, of having a future that is so liistic that is that that is a future built on togetherness instead of a future built on divergence, as it had been the case for centuries. So I think that that part of the conversation really needs reviving and and and revamping in DC.
Podcast Conclusion
00:42:11
lpaltiguzman
Great. Well, thank you so much, Marco. And we'll discuss more. There are so many other topics I wanted to tackle, but we already did a lot. Thank you so much.
00:42:20
marco
So enough. Thank you, Leslie.
00:42:30
lpaltiguzman
This episode was recorded on January 22, 2025. This is Leslie Peltie-Guzman saying good day and good luck.