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37- Can Marissa Interest You In A Family Affair?
30 Plays15 days ago
Marissa Joy Leotaud, of Can We Interest You In Erotica? fame, returns to tell us about her dramatic, fun, and sexy debut novel, A Family Affair. She tells us about how the novel started with a teenage pregnancy, how it was nurtured through writing classes and The Book Project, through The Lighthouse Writing Center in Denver, and how it all came together.
We hear about developments in Marissa’s life since she quit her job to pursue a creative life, and get some big surprises! We talk about the power of having overwhelming delusional faith in yourself and your dreams.
In our conversation, we talk all about writing, including:
The writing process (writing over the course of ten years, editing a million times, all of it)
The ego death of navigating the traditional publishing world
The healing journey of self-publishing and the path to publication day
Her family’s response to the book
Other upcoming creative projects
For Patti and Charlotte’ s homework, we’re going to (of course!) read A Family Affair and have our own mini book club. Join us if you’d like, and send us your reactions!
Buy the A Family Affair: https://www.amazon.com/Family-Affair-Marissa-Joy-Leotaud/dp/B0GHPYLT23
Follow Marissa:
Instagram: @marissajoyfiction
TikTok: @marissajoyfiction
Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/marissajoyy
Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
You know that thing you love that your friends and family don't want to hear about anymore? Tell it to us, Patty and Charlotte. We want to learn all about your weird and wild obsessions or your perfectly normal hobbies that you've taken just a little too far.
00:00:15
Speaker
We want to dabble in your curious interests. Can we interest you in today's episode?
Marissa's Journey Update
00:00:36
Speaker
Hi, Patty. Hey, Charlotte. And hi, Marissa. Welcome back. Thank you for having me back. I feel like Mr. Cotter.
00:00:47
Speaker
yeah ah Welcome back. um Our first return. This is so exciting. Oh, that's exciting. I didn't know that. Yeah. um And I'll give a little intro for you. It's Marissa Leoto, who we had on our, one of our first few episodes, and she talked to us about erotica.
00:01:12
Speaker
And it was a great, a great story that you had about, you know, deciding to, to leave your job and pursue creative projects, like including writing and acting and all of those things.
00:01:31
Speaker
And now we're you're back. what are you going to talk to us about? oh my gosh, it's so it's so funny. I'm having a little deja vu because The last time I was here, I was like, I quit my job and I'm just doing what I want. Yeah. Oh, great. For like a couple weeks. Right.
00:01:55
Speaker
you Like hungry and have bills and all of that. And this feels very, I don't even know, ironic something. I don't know what the magic is here, but I'm sort of like in that same spot again. because I ended up going back to finance.
00:02:15
Speaker
um I think as soon as I left my job the last time, i was instantly thinking, like, what am I going to do to make money instead of, like, I'm not worrying about that for a little bit.
00:02:28
Speaker
So I did go back to finance, and I've been working in finance for, like, a year now. which is crazy. I'm like, when did I, it's been a long time since I've talked to you guys. It doesn't feel like.
00:02:39
Speaker
But now I'm like quitting my job again. And I was like, no, like I was right before. Like this is not, obviously I don't feel like I should just not work. I have no problems working, but the environment that I'm in it's finance, which is fine, but it's also like a call center, which is not fine. And and I'm leaving.
00:03:04
Speaker
i just gave my two weeks notice. Oh my God, congratulations. I feel like i and you're saying the same exact thing. um But I think I was actually, like, I think I was actually very anxious about it last time. And now I just feel relieved.
00:03:24
Speaker
And I feel like actually doing it with some faith, which was not an ingredient, a big ingredient last
New Year's Realization & Career Decisions
00:03:33
Speaker
time. um Yeah, I'll tell you a quick story. My friend, she told me about this challenge people were doing at the end of last year where you write down on like 12 different pieces of paper wishes that you have, things that you want to come true for the new year.
00:03:49
Speaker
And you basically, you're so you're supposed to do like once a day or once a week or something. i ended ended up doing it all at once because I didn't have, I ran out of time before the new year was starting. But you pick one you read it, and then you burn it.
00:04:03
Speaker
And then you say, you basically go through until you have one piece of paper left. All of the things you burn are for the universe to take care of. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to focus on it. The one that remains is your job. This is your one job for 2026. So I did this exercise like all on New Year's Eve. And the one piece of paper that was my responsibility was overwhelming delusional faith.
00:04:31
Speaker
my Faith is like the one thing I struggle with historically. um So it felt like a smack in the face from the universe. Like all you need to do is finally have some fucking faith and like let us take care of the rest, which is not my usual mindset at all. And I like taped up that piece of paper above my altar in my room and then I'd walk past it and I was like, haven't gotten to that yet because I'm still here trying to control everything.
00:05:01
Speaker
And I think with the job I was in, I was in a place where I was like doing my writing, doing acting, getting these great opportunities. Things are actually moving and shaking, but I'm not able to just like completely release control and have faith that everything will be fine. Also like dying at my job, crying every day. It's just so stressful.
00:05:23
Speaker
So anyway, I was like, it's time. i think it's time. I think it's time to listen to the piece of paper. and I put in my two weeks and I felt like nothing but relief. And that's it. I don't know what's happening next.
00:05:36
Speaker
because um Because you have overwhelming delusional faith that it's going to work out. Delusional faith. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. So I'm like, not much has changed. But i but a lot. but yeah Yeah. The mindset. and Yeah.
00:05:58
Speaker
That attitude is so important. Yeah. So, you know, see you next year and we'll see what job I'm putting then. Charlotte, don't you have a similar sounding? Yes. um Yes.
Personal Growth Goals
00:06:15
Speaker
goal When you you, when you said that I was thinking of my own um goal for 2026, which is to have, to have an almost delusional sense of confidence.
00:06:27
Speaker
basically. love yes that also we Yeah. Yeah. so it's gotta bring that word in delusional, but just almost, you know, it's like, I'm not lying to myself, but i I'm getting close.
00:06:46
Speaker
Well, and don't we need it to be delusional so that it's different? Like, okay, if all the things that we know can, should, whatever, are non-delusional, if we want it to be so different and so great, like, then it has to be delusional because it's just something that we haven't experienced yet.
00:07:08
Speaker
Like you have to do something you've never done to have something you've never had. Yeah, I've never ever been delusional about anything. I'm such a Virgo. I'm so like, well, let me just plan it. And then if I just control everything, it'll be fine.
00:07:25
Speaker
But I've seen time and time again that I can control everything and it is very much not fine. um Traditional routes can kill you, can screw you over, can drop you like a hot potato.
00:07:37
Speaker
So you might as well. yeah Well, and clearly that wasn't a job where it was just to pay the bills so that you could go after your real dreams. If if you're crying, if it's soul sucking, if it's. Right.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, I would say like I have no problem having a job. to that's gonna like your only point is to pay my bills so I can go do what I want to do. But it's very much a job where it's actually like has a great career trajectory.
00:08:11
Speaker
You kind of get in at the ground floor, do this terrible, awful job that everybody hates, but you do it to endure and get to where you want to be. But the final where you want to be is like being a financial advisor, which I don't actually have a passion to be. So if you do, then it's it's great. Just like you you're like in the gauntlet. You do this really hard work. You're with a group of people. You're all fighting together. There's actually great camaraderie there.
00:08:37
Speaker
um You're like fighting for this greater good. or you know your own personal good, the actual greater good of the stock market is a different story. ah But if that's not your goal in life, then you're just like going through hell for no reason. um And I was like, why am I, this is no. And I have a habit of like picking the hardest thing, doing the doing the hard thing. Like I have to make life hard for myself.
00:09:05
Speaker
for no no reason no reason it's black right because instead you can you can do the hard things towards the goal that you really actually want because that'll be hard too yeah you know not necessarily but I mean yeah I think most paths are hard even even having faith to be like I'm not going to worry about this is extremely difficult it's like extremely hard work so it's like you know choose your heart.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Think about that. Cause they say like, you know, whatever you put your attention towards is your life and is what you get good at. And I think about that when I'm like playing spelling bee on New York times at like ah in Sudoku, I'm like, I got so good at those.
00:09:54
Speaker
And why? I could have gotten good at something that I'm really wanting to get good at. So you're taking your attention and you're putting it to the place where the reward is something you actually want. Like if you were sticking with your job, you'd get the reward of being a financial advisor and then you'd be like, oh Okay, great. Okay. Thanks.
00:10:19
Speaker
I guess that's what I do now. That's my reward. And I don't want to. Well, so tell us with you what have you been doing? Because I know you're here specifically to talk about the the publishing side of things, but...
Creative Pursuits & Book Introduction
00:10:37
Speaker
yeah tell us what you're wanting to do about the book sure so I mean even with this you know wonderful job that I've been I've been still very busy with acting and writing um which has been great um I'm shooting my first feature right now which has been an extremely valuable experience um so fun female director mostly mostly female cast um
00:11:08
Speaker
um which has been really cool, which you don't get a lot on sets. So that's been great. And then I just shot a short where I play a woman who like takes her dying wife's brain and puts it in a mechanical spider, which was very, very fun to play.
00:11:28
Speaker
um And then on the writing side, i in this last year, I was I was focused on TV writing for a while. I wrote two pilots and But I am publishing my book.
00:11:44
Speaker
And by the time this airs, it will be out. Woo-hoo! Yay! What's the title? The title is A Family Affair Marissa Joy Liotto. I'm very excited about it. I'll tell you a quick synopsis. It's about two teenagers, a boy and a girl, who fall in love and have a baby, end up having two babies, and they surprisingly stay together.
00:12:16
Speaker
Now we see them in their mid to late 30s thriving. Their kids are about to be off to college. They're excited, or the husband's excited for freedom. The wife declares she's pregnant with a third.
00:12:30
Speaker
Oopsie baby all these years later. So the husband's kind of like, what the hell? I thought we were about to be free. he ends up having an affair with a neighbor who has a plethora of her own secrets and drama ensues. This is as far as I can go.
00:12:47
Speaker
Oh, I love it. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. um I'm excited about it because like as I've re-read it 5,000 times, I'm like, I really like this book. Not just because i wrote it. um This is a book i would I would go read. It's definitely very book club appropriate.
00:13:08
Speaker
Lots to discuss. I gave it to, um ironically, at my finance job, this group of women were like, let's start a book club. And I was like, I know a book we can read.
00:13:19
Speaker
And they loved it. they were like They were like, I was just thinking I was going to read it because, you know, you're my coworker and I want to be nice. But they were like, this was so good. oh that's awesome. That's a great compliment.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah, that really is such a compliment. Where can people buy it? Yes, it will be. Well, it's available on Amazon. um You can look up a family affair or my name Marissa Joy Leoto and you can find it and you can buy it and you can love it.
00:13:50
Speaker
And you can bring it to your book club. You can bring it to your book club. Definitely. It's definitely the discussion fodder. I have read some of it and it is, well, I mean, I read some of it a while back, but it it was so well written that I can only imagine that the more polished version is even better like than before. And I believe it was quite sexy, the part that I was reading.
00:14:20
Speaker
is Is a lot of it going to have some erotica elements? It definitely has erotica elements. I think that erotica is what got me into reading in the first place. Um, you know, post childhood reading, and that was just my biggest influence. And then I ended up writing this book that deals lot with like grief and loss and regret, a lot of regret, um, your past taunting you, staying with you. So a lot of heavy themes in there, sex throughout. So it's a nice balance. So you can cry and feel.
00:15:02
Speaker
Cry and feel all of the things. um yeah To me, it just feels like a natural part of reading. I think because I read so much erotica. It's like, well, obviously we're not going to allude to anything. We're going to get in there.
00:15:16
Speaker
um But yes, it is still a very sexy book. Okay, great. But yeah, I can't wait to read it. Sounds like some themes that are heavy, but really relevant to anything. Yeah, i think i I think it has a good balance. it's a lot of heavy It's a lot of heavy themes. It's a lot of dichotomy in the book because you have like the man who's having an affair It's like, this is bad. Your wife is at home. We're getting the wife's perspective.
00:15:49
Speaker
But then it also feels like this really sweet love story about these two people falling in love, even though it's extremely forbidden. The people who've read it so far, the feedback I've gotten was, I love everyone, and then I hate them, and I'm encouraging them, and then I'm like, what are you doing? Which is great, which is good for me to hear as a writer.
00:16:12
Speaker
Absolutely. Because that is, you don't like, yes, it's great to have a character that you just hate. But if you also can understand where they're coming from, it's just so much more complicated. And what a great topic as well, because even if you're not married or don't have children, you get to a certain point in life where there's what you thought was going to happen versus what is happening. And what do you do with that?
00:16:40
Speaker
point you know what decisions do you make and and yeah it's it's incredibly relatable and and complicated and fun yes yes I wanted all of that and I think you get all of that incredibly complicated relatable and fun and then you're like questioning the fun and judging the fun and enjoying the fun um Yeah, it's ah it's a lot of about what I thought my life would be versus what it is. And then even when you settle into or accept, okay, this is what it is, it gets upended anyway.
00:17:19
Speaker
It kind of ties back to what we were talking about before. Like, even if you're like, okay, I'll do this traditional route. I'll take the finance job. That can all blow up in your face. Anyway, you can get later. You can get whatever. So it's like,
00:17:35
Speaker
it It plays with, should I just go for what I want anyway? Should I just like give into hedonism and just go for it? Because failure is an option everywhere.
00:17:47
Speaker
hu But, everything you know, everything comes with consequences. So choose your home. And like, who is the person that you want to be? and like how, which is more important to you being that person or sometimes being happy. And now I'm just kind of guessing where the the novel's going. I'm gonna have to read it to see.
00:18:10
Speaker
Wow. But I, but that is a, that is a very poignant, yeah, observation. Can you tell us um how, like about your process of writing it?
Writing Journey & Editing Process
00:18:23
Speaker
Sure. um I started by getting pregnant as a teen. That was the heck um Honestly, it started, gosh, so long ago. Like, I will admit it's been years and years, over a decade of working on the novel. Of course, that included a lot of, like, put it in a drawer,
00:18:48
Speaker
Forget about it. Life is lifing hard. um And then you come you come back to it. But I started in like, I was like in grad school. I was pregnant with my youngest son.
00:19:00
Speaker
i was sitting on a bench with my boyfriend at the time. And I was like, I think I want to write a book. And he was like, okay. So it was a lot of I would do temp jobs and I'm just like writing on legal pads on a lunch break or on a not lunch break. um I definitely never got to a point of this is my writing routine. This is my schedule, my system. I'm still looking for that. I'm like, maybe on book two, I'll figure that out. But I kind of doubt it.
00:19:34
Speaker
um I've gone through, it's just been so long with different phases. Like, Charlotte was there when we're sending accountability selfies to each other, like to make sure we got some writing done.
00:19:48
Speaker
So just depending on the stage i meant I'm in in life, it's like there would be, there were times of like, oh, I wrote for two hours today or i have five minutes and I'm going to take these five minutes or I haven't even thought about it in three weeks.
00:20:03
Speaker
I feel like every method I have tried and I think it does work. result in it taking a lot longer. But the amount of life that has been lived in that time, it's like, all I can do is give myself grace.
00:20:18
Speaker
I've had a son that was sick, who was like in and out of hospitals throughout this entire time. Like, I'm not going to stress myself about um having a perfect writing schedule.
00:20:31
Speaker
So it was basically like, finding five minutes here and there to get out this extremely shitty first draft. um And then taking a lot of classes. I will say the one thing that i that works for me, I'm a huge advocate for classes because they give me accountability. they get That's the only time I feel very structured because I have class next week. So I have a built-in deadline. I'm getting great feedback from genius people in class, wonderful instructors.
00:21:02
Speaker
i'm a big I'm a big fan of club class. I don't think, oh, this would not be done if I didn't take classes. So that's probably where i had the most structured was when I was in a program and taking classes to get it polished. And that, honestly, the book project that I was in that took me through like two to revisions, two drafts.
00:21:28
Speaker
at first it was all from a male perspective. And I had a teacher who was like, you are a black woman. The people who read your book will be black women and they're going to want to hear their voice. And I was like, okay, you're right. um So now it's from three different perspectives. Two are women. One is a man.
00:21:46
Speaker
i mean, it started, it was like all of the father's perspective. And then it was like the father and the son who doesn't have a perspective at all. Now he's just like, you know, a character in the background.
00:21:57
Speaker
um So I just thrive on people reading it, giving me feedback, because you can get so lost in your tunnel vision of what you think this is.
00:22:10
Speaker
And then when you're realizing like how it's being perceived, then you can really be like, okay, is that what I want or do I need to revise here? um So the process of writing was just like, it was very de sporadic and messy at first. And then it got more and more disciplined. to the point where I was like maybe I need writing software and I should a teacher told me once like you're in this huge word document get out of the document like take it in chunks break it up and then looking at it more as like it became the it became a puzzle that I was trying to put together more so than just I don't know this flow of random thoughts that I had down and then editing like I feel like editing took way longer than writing it
00:22:56
Speaker
But yeah, there was there's there was never a, here's my formula, because I've always envied people who have that, people who are like, This is what I do. I'm up at, I've heard like, if you want to be a writer as a mom, all you got to do is wake up early and just be up at 5 a.m. before the kids and have your people are so, I don't know, they like preach about it and it sounds great. And then it's 5 a.m. and I'm like, I'm so tired. I'm not. Good luck. yeah My brain is not going to produce what I actually want at 5 a.m.
00:23:30
Speaker
I feel like if you can do that, that's so awesome. my golden time is like 2 p.m. Like two to four, you got me locked in.
00:23:43
Speaker
I've always been, luckily enough, I'll have these jobs where I can kind of sneak away for an hour. It's a lot of, this book was written in conference rooms, um sneaking away on my lunch break and doing what I can.
00:23:58
Speaker
And then for many years, my big goals have been like, I need to finish this book and I want to lose weight. And then I'll always think, right, which is like, fuck off. um But you know, here we are women in America.
00:24:13
Speaker
But then I'm like, man, I love the writing because you can't undo what you did with the weight loss. You can throw all that progress. yeah Like, fine like easy. the Look, I just keep saying nobody's going to nobody's deleting this. This is great. So even if it's like I can't come back to it this week, I can't.
00:24:34
Speaker
Nothing is deleted. It's all still there. You can just keep going. and it takes as long as it takes. And that's OK. That is such a good point. Well, and what you said about it took the time that it took because you were living life, that is also in your book. So it made your book richer and something that it couldn't have been if you had finished it 10 years ago. 100%. There's so much of it that it's interesting looking back, like reading final drafts of it.
00:25:07
Speaker
A lot of it is like, oh God, I can tell how long ago I started this because the first time was so different. And there is some stuff that I tried not to change. Like I will, at this age that I'm at, I just want to scream at some characters like, girl, you don't have to deal with this. like But when I started at 25, 24 writing it, it's like, that's what you would have dealt with at 24 years old.
00:25:33
Speaker
So, okay, we'll leave it in. um But yeah, the perspective changes so much. And there are things that I have shifted because I'm like, no, we're not. That's that's too juvenile. We're not doing that. But yeah, the the living of life absolutely informed it as time goes on.
00:25:51
Speaker
And it was such a healing process. It all came from being a teen mom and the sort of trauma around that. And then writing this book from thinking of writing it to getting the proof copy in the mail, which when I got, I just broke down and bawled my eyes out like a baby.
00:26:12
Speaker
It was just like a hug to like 16 year old pregnant Marissa who had no fucking, no fucking clue of what was coming her way. It was just, it was like this ongoing therapy I was doing with myself for over a decade.
00:26:28
Speaker
whether I realized it or not. And then I'll read, I'll read parts of it now. Like I have the reading tomorrow and I'll read, I'm picking what parts I'm going to read. And some of it, I'm just like, Oh God, I can't read this because I'm going to cry. It's just this reminder of how far I've come, not just with the book, but in life, emotionally, spiritually, mentally.
00:26:51
Speaker
yeah It's, it's been a huge cathartic blessing. That's amazing. And I do think, yeah, I remember it in like my 20s being like, I want to be a writer, but being like, what the hell would I write about? And you have really like incorporated it all in. And like you said, it just makes, you know, it makes it richer. It makes it wiser.
00:27:12
Speaker
i I think. Yeah. It's interesting because when the book club at my job was reading it, A lot of the feedback I got was they're like, I could tell it's like I can tell certain lines.
00:27:24
Speaker
They're like, this isn't something that you just wrote. Like, this is something you lived. They're like, it's so it's so specific and alive. It's like this must have happened to her. And a lot of the lines that they point out, I'm like, yep, yep, yep. Like that happened. and i but That really did happen. The story in general is very much fictional, but so much specific lines, the heart, the mindset of a lot of people. It's just who I was as I was on this healing journey.
00:27:56
Speaker
Charlotte, I know in your writing, you've said that you love the editing process. Is that right? yeah I like to already have something on the page to work with. i don't do well with the blank page as not as well but maris how do you feel about that yeah how do you feel about the editing process you said that it was a lot of editing but oh my god a lot of editing a lot of rewriting I do.
00:28:28
Speaker
It's so funny because I'm like, it's, it's been so long since I was just writing and not editing. It's been so many years of editing. i think I had so much to get out that I was able, I didn't have a problem with the blank page. Yeah.
00:28:44
Speaker
I think I just had so much that I needed to get out. I feel like I had, i was lacking a voice so much. As a teenager in my 20s, it was just like no fucking agency.
00:28:56
Speaker
And I'm known in my family as like the loud one who does what she wants. And I'm like, I don't feel that way. I'm like, I feel slightly less repressed than you guys, but repressed all the So I think I just had so much...
00:29:11
Speaker
purging I need needed to do that I was able to purge on the page but then when it came to the editing then I then I felt like a writer when I was editing that feels like oh now I'm like a professional doing a thing um working on a project not just like spilling my guts. I do agree that it's, it can be easier to have something to work with.
00:29:39
Speaker
It also feels to me anyway, like less pressure. You don't have to like create this thing anymore. You just have to like tweak this thing or correct this thing.
00:29:50
Speaker
Those times when i I'm like, I have an hour to write today, that would give me a lot more anxiety than I have an hour to edit. An hour to edit is like, okay, well, let me just see what we got and then see what we're going to do. But an hour to write can feel like it's all on you, kid. It's all on you to create it right now with editing.
00:30:11
Speaker
You're like coming in into the job that's already started and it feels a lot less daunting. It just took me a lot longer.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that there's, there are so many rewrites in publishing a book too. So it's, the I mean, its it's hard to even count sometimes because you're rewriting certain parts over and over. hard to yeah When people say like, oh, this is the fifth draft. I'm like, how do you know that?
00:30:40
Speaker
but Counting as a new draft because it could be five, it could 500. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. If people read it in between, And then I do it again and then I count that as a draft. But in between those, it's like, okay, a bajillion times.
00:30:59
Speaker
A bajillion. So can you tell us about publishing the book? Like what's what's that? I mean, it sounds like it's
Facing Rejections & Self-Publishing
00:31:08
Speaker
pretty busy now. It's coming up like it your book release parties tomorrow, right?
00:31:14
Speaker
And then and that's the 20th. And then on the 21st is when it's releasing, right? It's releasing the 20th as well. May 20th. Oh, it's releasing. Oh, that's right. Don't worry. I've got i've got that on my calendar. go um Yeah, so publishing has been, oh my God, all of this has been like ah a journey in healing.
00:31:39
Speaker
um Publishing journey was basically an ego death when Charlotte and I were in a project together, the book project, where you Well, you know, you're supposed to write a draft of your book, but I like I came in with a draft and I just wrote 20 more.
00:31:58
Speaker
By the end, I I had we you get a couple published authors that will read your book, give you feedback. The last one that read mine was like, this is going to be on the shelves of Barnes and Noble. I'm not worried about you. This book is great.
00:32:12
Speaker
Next. And I was like, okay, great. um And I was, I mean, i like I said before, I'm a Virgo. Everything must be right. I was a straight A student, like used to praise and you did it and you're the best, blah, blah, blah. And if you work hard, you get results, right? If you work hard, you get results. It's very streamlined. Daughter of immigrants. So the story of like, we came here, we had five cents in our pockets. We worked hard. And now look at what we have.
00:32:42
Speaker
That's the formula. Very straightforward. um Which I think is like, you know, millennial trauma. But then i so i started querying to agents. I got some, I got really great feedback. I met with one agent who was like,
00:32:59
Speaker
I didn't even think you'd want to meet with me because I thought you'd have so many options. And I was like, what? No, like you can be my agent. um But, and at this time my book wasn't done. So they're reading like the first 50 pages or something.
00:33:15
Speaker
So I finally finished the book. i query all of those wonderful agents who were like, Oh my God, send it to me. um Sent it out to everyone.
00:33:27
Speaker
rejection rejection, rejection, rejection, which we all know is the name of the game. And i was like, look at me, I got my first rejection, I got my first five rejections, like it's like a badge of honor, because it means you're doing the thing. It means you're done. If you can query a book, that means you wrote a book. um So it was great.
00:33:46
Speaker
And then at 20, 25 rejections, 30 rejections, it was just a huge slap in the face for me. And I was like, I'm supposed to be reveling in this and I'm not. Like I'm fucking pissed and not just pissed, but like confused. Like I like everybody told me I did it right. And now I guess I didn't. um And then I heard so much of like, it's not you, the industry is whatever, and it can be perfect and it still doesn't happen.
00:34:16
Speaker
And just the opposite of all those teachings I was told growing up. um Like you can do the thing, you can work hard and then nothing. um And i had no experience with that up until this point. So it was just like an extremely difficult lesson for me to learn that I don't know. And then I felt guilty about it. I'm like, I feel like people know this and I shouldn't have been expecting to just like get an agent, be published, done. Um,
00:34:47
Speaker
But it was a hard, it was a very hard lesson for me to learn. And it, another reason why it all took so long, it was, it could, it was maybe like a year of like, when I finally stopped querying, because I just couldn't take it anymore. Like I would get, I would get rejections like a year later. And I'm like, I don't even remember you. Why would you reject to me a year later? You could have just not responded to me. ah It was like a year of sitting with that.
00:35:14
Speaker
Okay, that's not happening the way I thought it was going to happen. And then just having to not not even thinking about what do I do now? What comes next? But it was just like a year of like paralysis of, oh, that's not happening.
00:35:30
Speaker
And having to even accept that that is true, that that is the case. And then eventually I got to the point of, okay, fuck it. I'm going to just do it.
00:35:41
Speaker
Because i know many writers, I know many amazing writers who have written multiple novels that have not been published and they just keep going. And I'm like, oh, I want to be that dedicated in the way I'm not there yet.
00:35:56
Speaker
And i I think because this book meant so much to me with so much of like my shit that just came out in in this book, I felt like this isn't a book that i want to put in a drawer and just, you know, start again. i admire the mindset of people who can do that. i feel like there's a lot of writer things that I'm just not good at.
00:36:20
Speaker
Putting things in drawers, I'm not good at. And a writing schedule, I'm not good at. I'm going to take 15 years and I'm going to get it out there. So eventually I was like, okay, okay. Like I surrender. I'm going to self-publish. And I think the process of self-publishing has been another healing journey of where does your validation come from? What makes what makes you worthy?
00:36:48
Speaker
Is it just external validation? If there are no bells and whistles, if there are no Penguin Random House isn't knocking down your door, then what does your book mean to you?
00:37:00
Speaker
So just having to sit with those realizations and Like, and what do I, who am I as a writer? And honestly, the first time somebody read my book, like once I had it, I had, i got author copies. i gave it to some people and someone like sat and read my physical book.
00:37:23
Speaker
And ah the woman was like, I read it in a week. I just ate it up and it was amazing. I felt like in that moment, I felt like,
00:37:36
Speaker
I don't need anything else. Like, I don't need anything else. when when i got the When I got the book for the first time and I bawled like a baby when I got it in the mail, I felt so fucking proud of myself, which is not a word I use often, to put it lightly.
00:37:52
Speaker
i felt so proud of myself. So when I was like, oh my God, it's done? It was like, I have reached the mountaintop. And then to have someone tell me that they read it in a week and like devoured it.
00:38:03
Speaker
I was like, I don't, we're done. We've, I don't need, i don't need anybody else's validation. um I wasn't even going to have a book. I wasn't going to have a book launch, but the guy who's hosting it, an author named Stephen Dunn, who is a genius, he was like, no, you should do that. You should have a book launch. I'm going to host it. and I was just like, okay. Okay.
00:38:26
Speaker
um Because I did still struggle with like, Like I have those moments of, and and I have done it. I don't need anything else. But I did still feel like, well, it's self-published. It's not traditionally published. So there's no need for like a big celebration. It just turned into this like personal, it's just for me. And I did it for me.
00:38:47
Speaker
and he was kind of like, no, we're not, we're not doing that. We're gonna, we're gonna do the thing and make a flyer because it's happening. So that I, even that I still feel like, yeah, okay, please nobody look at me. But anyway, it's been it's been a humbling journey. um But then a really like fun and exciting, and it it feels nice to like celebrate yourself and celebrate something that you've done that is very hard to do.
00:39:12
Speaker
The actual process of, like I'm releasing it on Amazon, that actual process was very easy, which is hilarious because it takes time 25 years to write the book. And then when it's like, here's this formatting software, we're going to make it look like a book, upload it to KDP. Like the whole thing took a week. And I was like, Oh my God, that was so easy.
00:39:38
Speaker
because the way I was like okay so for the next six months I'm gonna be formatting and then it's like that's an afternoon um so that was actually very quick and very quick and painless to physically get it published like working with a cover designer and it's like ah some dude I found on Fiverr and it he made an amazing cover I actually really love the cover all of that stuff was very straightforward quick and painless so And how great that you have other artists and and writers in your community like that you can kind of have as mentors on how to what you should be doing and also championing, oh my God, let's try a different word, um supporting you in this process as well. For another writer, an author to say, no, you're going to have.
00:40:36
Speaker
A book launch party and I'm hosting it. It's like, that's really, that's lovely. And I feel like especially as publishing houses are shrinking and do-it-yourself thing. as with so many things, you know, like YouTubers and podcasters, like everybody that's just kind of making art on their own is really flourishing. And um so that's, that's cool that you've already experienced kind of like your first go at it.
00:41:08
Speaker
For sure. And I think it's definitely, it definitely has affected like, my life in acting and um film writing because, oh my God, acting is just, it's like, I won't say it's 20 times
Acting Industry & Independent Projects
00:41:25
Speaker
worse. It's just as bad um of like trying to knock down doors and external validation is a part of the game. Like you, you need someone to say yes. Historically, traditionally, you need someone to say yes to you and you can be
00:41:39
Speaker
brilliant and you can get a no and you will get a no five million times that's just what it is but self-publishing this book I'm thinking about my mind is already like what's the next project we're doing a pilot that I wrote I want to adapt it into a vertical so not it was going to be a web series but verticals are basically like the you see them on like Instagram or whatever now and they are like those super cheesy they're almost like soap operas but they like start playing and then you're like shit I'm I've i've been watching this for too long and you can't stop it you thought I was poor but I'm really rich and now you will regret it like she he spells
00:42:25
Speaker
but people are like starting to watch their content in very short forms so my thought is to make one of those but not a cheesy soap opera. I like to make an actual comedy, but basically in like reels, like the length of a reel is one episode. And then you can just like keep watching, keep going. But at this point, it's like I still submit to things. I'm still trying to like get out in the world, but very much the focus is on also what are you just making on your own?
00:42:54
Speaker
what are you doing yourself? Because you can go crazy. You can go crazy waiting for someone to give you permission. And it's true. you're in it We're in a day and age where you can just go do the thing.
00:43:08
Speaker
So it feels much better to be like, I did the thing and here are the things that I did. I got them out of my body. I don't know. I think for me, that's very important. Like I need it to be out and done and there. And then I don't really care. I'm not really worried about how successful it is, what it does. like The point is to just get it out of my body. And now it is out. I have done my part. Whatever happens next is not my business, to be honest.
00:43:37
Speaker
I can only imagine it must be just freeing and like light to feel like, i i did this thing. It's exactly how I want it And now I let the world do with it what they will you know it's yours yeah read it not read it comment bring it to their book clubs whatever put it on your coffee table no who cares yeah like i yeah feel like what i needed from this process i have gotten i have gotten i feel fulfilled at this point i'm the rest is like
00:44:17
Speaker
Still unwritten. I was just kidding. So speaking of um read it has anyone in your family read it yet? and Okay. or Or and thinking about like have you shared it with your eldest or your
Family Reactions to the Book
00:44:39
Speaker
children at all? Great question. You know, because this is something that's kind of inspired by yeah relationship with them in a way.
00:44:48
Speaker
Great question. so no. um Very, very interesting things happening in my family right now. My my dad, I know he will he will buy the book. He will read the book.
00:45:04
Speaker
um My mom, unfortunately, she's dealing with some memory loss right now. So it's not it she's not going to be able to like retain a whole novel.
00:45:16
Speaker
um which I'm like, that's okay. the favor you know i um But even with my dad, like I, I am going to go see my parents next month. And I,
00:45:30
Speaker
I want to bring the book to my dad. Like, I don't want him to obviously buy it. I'm going to give him a copy. um But I think there will definitely be a conversation about like, okay, so here are some things in the book that might sound familiar to you. Let's have that conversation. um Our, you know, I come from a Caribbean family. Like these conversations aren't usually had. um But one thing I have learned about my dad through the years, is like, He has my back no matter what.
00:46:01
Speaker
He's he would be willing to have this conversation with me. um So I kind of look forward to it. I think it'll be good. i think it'll be good. um My oldest son has schizophrenia.
00:46:16
Speaker
So I don't see, because of the whatever the type he has, the way it presents itself, I don't see him sitting and reading this novel or a novel. um Ironically, he writes like nobody's business. If you want like a writing inspiration, just watch him live his life. he's He's filling notebooks every day. He's writing every day, all day, which I think is so cute and so wonderful.
00:46:43
Speaker
admirable. um So he hasn't read it. My youngest son, who he's almost 16, I gave him a copy. And because of all the sex in it, I said, you're not allowed to read it until you're in a job. That's a great way to get him to want to read it then. You're not allowed to read this. Even though you started with erotica at that age, but maybe not your mom's erotica. Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
Right. Not your mom's erotica. Exactly. um but no, I mean, i'm I've always been very open with both of my children. i was just having this conversation. Like, I feel like it's all well and good to be open with your kids when they're younger. And you're like, we can say penis and we can say vagina and it's okay.
00:47:31
Speaker
But now that my youngest, he's almost 16, he has a girlfriend. I feel like Certain things are coming. Now, all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, my God, no, i want to lock you in a closet. And I don't want you to know anything or do anything.
00:47:46
Speaker
Yeah. It's different now. And, you know, he's not going to want to read ah erotica, his mom. His mom wrote. Like, he's coming to the reading because I'm making him. I'm like, you have to support me. You come to the reading.
00:48:00
Speaker
he's He doesn't want to because he's like, I'm going to have to talk to people. They're going to ask me questions. I don't want yes Which I get it as a teenager. You're just like too many, too many of my mom's friends in my face is like the worst situation.
00:48:14
Speaker
But I was like trying to pick like the passages I'm going to read. And there are certain things I'm like, don't read that. Don't read that. I can't wait to be there. and I mean, it's something I've always thought about when you write things that are personal and other people are going to be involved in that, obviously in life. How do you navigate that? And I was in a class once or a workshop or something where someone actually asked that question. Like, do you censor yourself? Do you not put everything in there if it's going to like affect other people? And the writer, which I thought was good feedback, was like,
00:48:47
Speaker
this is my book. I'm going to write what I want, but I will have a conversation with people like before it comes out or before they read it So it's not just like a complete blindside. And I don't think there's nothing in my book that's like, here's 12 ways my parents ruined me. um not Right. And again, because it's a fiction, it's like, yes, it's based on your real life, but this isn't you airing it out as truth.
00:49:14
Speaker
Totally, totally. There's different sets of parents in the novel, which i did intentionally because it's just like, it's the good, the bad and the ugly. I feel like there's, I won't even say the three main characters. Well, yeah, the three main characters, the husband, the wife, the mistress, all three of them feel like parts of me, not one character. There's one person who gets pregnant as a teenager in the book, but not It's not like I relate to just her. I related mostly to the husband and everything was in it was his perspective for a long time.
00:49:50
Speaker
But it's like everything is just, everything is bits and pieces. nothing is Nothing is for face value, this person or this is me or this is my mom or this is my dad. There's nothing like that in there. Everything is just an amalgamation.
00:50:07
Speaker
That is so cool. I'm really excited to read it. And I think Charlotte and i as our self-assigned homework, are going to read it. So we're also going to encourage any of our listeners to purchase the book on Amazon. So it's A Family Affair by Marissa Joy Leoto.
00:50:26
Speaker
And yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited i exciting and congratulations. Thank you. I'm excited too. Yeah, I think the last time that I read it was when there was still the son's perspective. So it's, I'm sure changed ton. Really? so Yeah. So I cannot wait to see what you've done with it since then.
00:50:51
Speaker
oh that's really exciting to hear. I did not know that. That's, i think my God, so long ago. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Time has really gone by. Yes.
00:51:04
Speaker
And good luck with your next transition with with the job. Good luck with the last two weeks here. yeah And we can't wait to see what's next.
00:51:15
Speaker
Overwhelming delusional faith. Yeah. Maybe next year we will check in with you again. We just do like a yearly check in. and see the evolution of your life what job do you have when are you quitting you guys will both be in full delusion you know with your delusional confidence and overwhelming delusional faith it's like yes I can't wait yeah delulu queens well everybody stay interesting and stay interested
00:51:46
Speaker
by Bye. Thanks for listening to today's episode. Please subscribe, comment, and like the podcast. Follow us on Blue Sky Social at CanWeInterestYouIn. Send us an email at CanWeInterestYouIn at gmail.com. And join us next time.