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Yes Means Yes?: Making Consent Sexy and Safe
61 Plays6 months ago
In a society that often shames us for our sexual desires and discourages open discussions about sex, communicating consent becomes even more crucial. In this episode, we explore the vital role of consent in fostering healthy and fulfilling sexual relationships.
We begin by addressing the societal norms that make it difficult for many to openly express their sexual desires and the importance of overcoming this taboo. Understanding and communicating consent is not just about the act itself but about creating a culture where everyone feels comfortable and respected in expressing their wants and boundaries.
Setting boundaries isn’t confined to the bedroom. We delve into how establishing clear boundaries in all areas of life can lead to more fulfilling and respectful interactions. We also emphasize the importance of checking in with partners during sex to ensure that everyone involved feels safe, heard, and satisfied.
Drawing from kink culture, which has long practiced the art of negotiating sex, we highlight valuable lessons on how to communicate openly about desires, limits, and expectations. The principles of negotiation in kink can be applied to all sexual relationships to ensure mutual understanding and pleasure.
Join us for an enlightening discussion on how to transform the way we communicate about sex, consent, and boundaries, paving the way for healthier and more satisfying relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction to Consent
00:00:00
funwithsexpodcast
Hello and welcome to the Fun with Sex podcast. I'm Natalie. Hi and I'm her co-host John. And today we are going to talk about the topic on everyone's mind, consent. Consent is sexy and I think that there's an issue where people kind of have a misconstruction of like the fantasy of how they want sex to go yeah versus the reality of how we need sex to go to create a safe environment. And I think that's kind of the issue we're facing right now is, you know, people who aren't terrible people agree that we need consent, consent is important, but people just aren't really sure what that really looks like in practice. Yeah.
Subtlety in Consent Violations
00:00:44
funwithsexpodcast
And I think that like generally everybody would agree rape is bad. And like the general like idea of like, was somebody violates someone's consent where it's someone clearly says, no, I don't want to do this. And someone ignores it.
00:00:58
funwithsexpodcast
We all agree that that is bad, but also a lot of research shows that's not where most consent violations happen. It's not in those black and white cases. It comes in something in ways that are a lot more subtle. And I think the media has a lot to blame for that. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely a topic that I think a lot of survivors struggle with is they kind of are in these situations and because the media just portrays assault and consent violations, Um, in very particular ways, people kind of struggle not just to understand, okay, what happened to me was assault, but I think people also. Fail to understand what communicating consent actually looks like versus not communicating it at all. And what I mean, I like
Media's Role in Misconceptions
00:01:48
funwithsexpodcast
the media too. I mean that like the way that like the media portrays sexual situations, yeah like people blame porn a lot, but it's not just porn.
00:01:57
funwithsexpodcast
turn on like any reality TV show, turn on any romance show. No one is sitting down having a consent check in of like, Hey, before we have sex, X, Y, and Z, do you want to do this? What are you into? What are you not into? Or even like before someone leans in and kisses somebody, they go like, Hey, do you mind if I kiss you or Would it be sexy if we kiss right now? Media never portrays moments like that. And I think that we all do to seeing those scenes on TV, have this fantasy of our head that like, we're just supposed to know what to do at the right time. And I think that's the issue is the other side of it is romanticized. You know, we see it in every movie and TV show, especially the stuff geared towards women. It's like,
00:02:43
funwithsexpodcast
Oh, you want to be with this guy who's persistently asking you out even when you're like, ah no, I'm not interested and you're hesitant and everything. um And then when you actually get into scenarios where you're on a date and everything, like they just go in for the kiss. They don't ask you. They just go and do this. They just sweep you up. And not supposed to be seen as like this romantic thing that we're all supposed to be after. um And then the opposite of that is you have in today's society, a lot of people and even a lot of women who they just don't find the idea of consent sexy. They just they don't want a guy to ask for permission before they do something. They don't want to have to give consent every step of the way. And that's kind of why it's important to have these nuanced conversations about
00:03:39
funwithsexpodcast
what giving consent can actually look like and how to give and receive it in a way that is still very sexy for you.
Reluctance to Discuss Consent
00:03:48
funwithsexpodcast
And like that's something that's happened to me where sublimatedly 90% of women that I've had sexual relationships with have been very receptive to consent conversations and they have been very appreciative. But I stopped and checked in and I asked them like, Hey, do you mind if I kiss you? Do you mind if I do this in bed, what do you like? But there is like a small minority of women that I have done things with and a larger minority of men who didn't want to have conversations about consent, who found it unsexy to say like, hey, are you into this or can I do this to you?
00:04:22
funwithsexpodcast
They want you to just go for it. And for me personally, I take that as a huge red flag, whether men or women, if they don't want to have a conversation about consent and their boundaries, because if you can't protect yourself, how else are you going to protect me and my boundaries? Yeah, and I think it's also kind of the, i like, it just showcases that they don't understand the subject of consent because you hear these people say, oh, well, it's not sexy for me if every step of the way I have to keep telling him, yes, yes, yes. And it's like, okay, well, universal consent is also a thing.
00:04:58
funwithsexpodcast
You can c say to your partner like, Hey, you know, we've been on this many dates. We've had sex this many times. I'm comfortable with you just doing whatever. I want you to just do whatever to me in the bedroom and still communicate like my hard boundaries. That's like, I don't want to do anal or whatever it is, but you can still have that type of moment. If that's what you really crave. It's just about giving consent ahead of time and in a different way. And that's like the biggest irony that I found with it is that like the people who are mostly in my experience, the people who have been like, Hey, I don't want to have conversations about consent are also the same people who have the strictest boundaries that they just don't want to communicate.
Internalized Shame and Communication
00:05:42
funwithsexpodcast
And I think what happens is that these people have a deep internalized sexual shame.
00:05:47
funwithsexpodcast
where they don't have a problem with communicating consent, they find it unsexy to talk about sex because they're so ashamed about the things that they desire and that they're having sex in the first place. That having to admit that they want to have sex and have to admit that this is what they're doing causes them to leave out the mood because they have that deep shame. Because like you were talking about before, the people who are ironically the best at talking about consent and My experience and some literature break backs us up as people in king culture the people who who are half the widest breadth of like You can hit me slap me spit on me scratch me Do all three of whatever you want to do to me, but here's my boundary Here's my red line because they've broken through that shame of not wanting to talk about sex they're willing to sit down and have an entire negotiation about things that they're in and and and not into and
Lessons from Kink Culture
00:06:40
funwithsexpodcast
Yeah. And that was, you know, I just made a TikTok on it because when it comes to kink, I think people who have a negative perception about kink, it's kind of when they're thinking about kink without consent, when it's like, no, in the kink community, oh my God, you get consent for everything. Before you're going into a scene, you negotiate everything. You talk about every single detail. what do you not or not like? And you can that can all happen before the scene. If you're somebody where you know you're like, hey, the way it works for me so I can feel safe as I do need you to ask every step of the way and I need you to read my nonverbal cues, that's all well and good. You can totally do that. But you can also have a situation too where you negotiate everything beforehand and you don't
00:07:31
funwithsexpodcast
You know, again, in a practical sense, I think when people think about conversations of consent, they almost think of like the school health class video that's like, yes, you can touch me here. Thank you. I will touch you here. It doesn't have to be robotic. I mean, it can be sexy. Like, you know, it's during foreplay and you're having dirty talk and go like, Yeah, what really turns me on is when you pull my hair when we're in doggy, I really want you to do that. Please do that to me. Oh, you want me to do that to you? Okay, do you want me to do this and stuff like that? And like, I think ironically, like,
00:08:11
funwithsexpodcast
That's something that the vanilla community needs to learn from the k community is to have negotiations and like negotiations is not like a business negotiation in kink road. It's just a conversation where both people layout everything that they're in and not into. and things that they're willing to try and things that they're not willing to try, especially for like casual sex, you need to you really need to take that time to have those conversations if this is the first time you're hooking up with somebody, or it's a one off thing. yeah I mean, like people like you and me and partners who ah even casual partners who have been hooking up
00:08:45
funwithsexpodcast
for a long time and have known each other's boundaries. you don't You've got houses already built of trust and consent where you don't need to check in all the time.
Everyday Consent Awareness
00:08:53
funwithsexpodcast
But if this is your first or your second time where you're trying something drastically new with the person, you do need to have those awkward conversations in order to have a good experience. And the thing that like I hate when people complain of about consent is that these questions last like two seconds, three seconds. It's not going to take up the vast majority of the sexual experience. And it's just crazy because when it comes to like conversations about consent and boundaries, people don't have issues with it in any other regard besides sexually. Because like think about it. like You walk into a friend's house. Oh, shoes on or shoes off? Oh, OK, shoes off. Walk a little further. Maybe you're carrying something in. Oh, can I just put these in your fridge? you know You ask for consent. You figure out what their boundaries are as you're navigating into this person's space and everything.
00:09:41
funwithsexpodcast
So how come when we're navigating someone's body, it's supposed to be like, um he should read my mind that I want him to finger me right now, but also he should know to do it at this exact rhythm and to not do it like this, like just communicate that. And I think that like again, it goes to the two things that we talked about before. One, the media and society has produced this unrealistic idea that everyone should know how to have sex at all times in a way that everybody enjoys without giving us sex ed growing up and giving us the tools to be able to make those like assumptions.
Communication Failures in Swinger Story
00:10:20
funwithsexpodcast
And two is because people are ashamed to admit that they want certain things in bed. People are ashamed to admit that, like hey, I want my dick sucked a certain way, or I want my pussy ate a certain way.
00:10:30
funwithsexpodcast
And like, fun story time. I mean remember the couple, the young couple at the Swinger's Club in Miami, yeah where we came to a Swinger's Club with a group of friends ah that we've all played with before. We knew all their boundaries. And there was a new couple that was a little bit younger than us that was judging us. and we were going over our nonverbal cues our stoplight method of consent our check-in process with the entire group but it was mainly for them and then they just ignored the entire process they kept having sex with each other while we were trying to talk about consent and then what happened well i mean first of all they were already like unicorn hunting which kind of became more apparent after the fact but
00:11:13
funwithsexpodcast
You know, they were interested in me and I explained like, Hey, I'm going to a room with all these people. So like, are you guys open to an orgy? They said, yes. When we ask about consent and boundaries, they say they have no boundaries. So then throughout the orgy, I approached them and I'm like, Hey, um, you know, to the guy, are you interested in doing penetration? and And he goes, yes, just with a condom. And then the girl goes, um, no. And I'm like, okay, that is like a big thing to not have like already figured out before getting into a sex club. So I back off because I'm like, something's going on here. I'm not gonna get involved. So then I go to her later on in the day and I'm like, what are you comfortable with? And she's like, um, maybe kissing.
00:12:09
funwithsexpodcast
So I just backed off because I was like, you clearly had zero conversations about your boundaries. You clearly don't know how to communicate your boundaries. And yeah. Which was like, we'll be fine if like,
Enhancing Experiences with Consent
00:12:22
funwithsexpodcast
during the consent talk, they were like, hey, we don't know what we're into. We're down to explore and we're bound to like, figure out our boundaries as we go. yeah It was just insulting that we had a con, we had a moment where everybody wasn't playing to have these conversations and they decided not to do it. And then they're the, ironically, the people who have the strictest boundaries in the room. And I think that's normally the case from like, again, my experience,
00:12:48
funwithsexpodcast
go to like somebody who's very kinky they'll sit you down and be like hey we're not even gonna like flirting the act for consent we're gonna have this very scientific meticulous conversation about what i'm into what i'm not into and then they're like the only thing i'm not into is you stabbing me with a knife yeah and i think that like where am i going with this I think what you're saying is that you know there is a spectrum to this. you There's different ways you can go about it and you can find a way that's most comfortable yeah for you um and your partner as well. And it's a learning experience. you know if its
00:13:36
funwithsexpodcast
your first time kind of trying to have a more consent-focused conversation, it may feel awkward the first time. But I assure you, the sex you have is gonna keep getting better and better if it's with the same partner. And if you're doing casual hookups, it's still going to continue to get better because you're going to know not only how to communicate what you're into, what you're not into, what you're interested in trying, but you're also going to learn early on how to spot those red flags in people. So when you bring up to like speaking from like
00:14:12
funwithsexpodcast
my experience when I was doing casual hookups with guys, if you bring a guy home and you're like, okay, so you know let's talk about like what are you interested in doing tonight? What are you comfortable with? This is what I'm comfortable with. And if they kind of respond to that in any sort of negative way, you know that this isn't a safe person to hook up with because somebody who's a safe person Yeah, maybe they would feel a little awkward because no one's flat out asked them before in this casual hookup culture about like their boundaries, but they wouldn't respond like Ignoring it or classically and that's like That's a good beige or red flag tester as if you sit somebody down and say hey I want to talk about consent before we get into the bedroom and things are hot and steamy and you may ignore me or
00:15:07
funwithsexpodcast
We have a lot of emotions and passions going along and things may not register to our brains. And if this person is like trying to bypass the conversation that you're going to have to protect yourself and to protect them, then maybe that's not a person that you want to have sex with. And like, don't get me wrong, we're going to go over later, there are sexy ways to ask for consent. during the moment and sexy ways to do check-in during the moment.
Checking In During Intimacy
00:15:30
funwithsexpodcast
But the safest thing for everybody involved is when you're still clothed on, when you're still not in the place of your in the act of sex to have these conversations beforehand, because then when you get into the bedroom, everybody should be on the same page. And it creates a far safer environment. And it creates a environment that is
00:15:51
funwithsexpodcast
less likely to have coercion. Because if people know the boundaries going into the bedroom, they're less likely to test it. Yes, there will be people who are assholes who will still test your boundaries after you laid them out flat. But for a lot of people, they don't have that ambiguity to try to like move the needle. They won't try it. Also, if you are one of those people who like set your boundaries firm, but less people are willing to test your boundaries. Yeah, definitely. I think that like we should go over like how to ask for consent in the bedroom because I think that like a lot of people are thinking like, well, this is really good information, but like I still don't know tips and trades of like how to do this. And ah to start off of outside the bedroom, I think that like a thing that I learned is one, it gets easier. The more that you have these conversations, the more that you're willing to admit to other people and to admit to yourself.
00:16:43
funwithsexpodcast
about the things that you like in bed, the less shame you have about it. And two, a good tip for a lot of people, especially if like you're someone who's not very confrontational is have your consent conversation, but don't make eye contact. Pretend that you're talking to no one or you're talking to yourself and this person just happens to be overhearing it. It makes it feels a lot less confrontational. Yeah. And I think if you are someone, especially if you have trauma or you've been in situations where people make you feel really negatively for trying to bring up your boundaries and what you do and don't wanna do and tries to coerce or pressure you. um you know I think doing this talk beforehand will help you get better at you know maybe spotting some red flags to understand if this person is safe or not safe. um But yeah, you just have to remember that somebody's negative reaction to you
00:17:41
funwithsexpodcast
presenting what they can and can't do to your body is it says way more about them than it does you. And this is the sad truth. If you're someone where you severely struggle with having these conversations to protect yourself during casual sex with strangers, Maybe you're not someone who should be having casual sex with strangers. If you haven't reached a point in your sexual maturity where you can't set your boundaries and to protect yourself, then maybe only have sex with people after you form a connection, a comfortability enough where you can feel comfortable to budds set those boundaries and that you know that this person will be receptive of these conversations.
00:18:18
funwithsexpodcast
Cause like not everybody has the confidence or the skills to bring somebody home no matter what gender that they are on a random night and say that like, Hey, this is what I'm okay with. if This is what I'm not okay with. And if like, you're not okay with that too fucking bad. Yeah.
Maintaining Consent in Spontaneity
00:18:36
funwithsexpodcast
And like moving, one, reinforcing what Natalie says, the best thing you can do is have these conversations for everybody outside the bedroom. But like the reality is sometimes I've been in situations, you're making out in a bar, you're making out in the Uber, then you're making out all the way into the house and you don't have the opportunity to stop and say like, Hey, let's do this. Or like, that's not even, crosses your mind before you're already in the act of having sex.
00:19:04
funwithsexpodcast
And then at that point, check-ins and asking for permission before you do something is imperative. So like if you're planning on going down with somebody, saying something simple is like, hey, do you like to be ate out or would you like for me to taste you? That could still be in the flow of the sex. The person can respond yes or with a head nod or say something sexy back and you never have to stop the flow of sex. Yeah, you can really I mean, you can really just make it into dirty talk. What do you want me to do? You really want me to touch you here? You want me to bend you over? Do you want me to put it in? Do you really want that? And, you know, it's kind of I get dirty talk can feel awkward for people and asking for consent can feel awkward. But if you just kind of try to like
00:19:56
funwithsexpodcast
Let go of that idea that you're going to seem silly and just really try to go for it and kind of let your sexual side out while also simultaneously figuring out what this person does and doesn't want. That can make for a really enjoyable scene. I mean, it's very hard to just be like, do you like this? And that's a way to ask for consent and do a quick check in to give the person an opportunity to opt out of sex. while staying in the mood and staying in the flow of things. Cause like me asking Natalie, do you like this Natalie responding? Yes, takes less than two seconds. But now I know that like Natalie's boundaries are protected. I'm protected knowing that I'm not going to hurt anybody and we can continue having sex. Yeah. I think another thing that like people really need to learn how to do is nonverbal cues because the reality is that like our, our understanding of consent has changed a lot in the last six years.
00:20:53
funwithsexpodcast
If you asked our parents, they were taught that no means no. And then the next generation was taught. Yes means yes. And now we're starting to understand that yes, sometimes also
Understanding Nonverbal Consent
00:21:05
funwithsexpodcast
means no. Yes, sometimes means maybe. Um, and sometimes maybe means no, maybe sometimes means I need to think about it. And like, nonverbal cues is a great way to gauge all those responses. If someone says yes, but they say it very unenthusiastically, they're not pushing back into you. They don't seem like they want to be there. They're not kissing you. They may have said yes because they felt coerced to or felt pressured to. And then as when you being a good person takes a step back and say like, Hey, do you want to do this? Or Hey, do you need a glass of water? Hey, would you just like to talk or cuddle?
00:21:47
funwithsexpodcast
Yeah, things like somebody not making eye contact. If you're pushing into them, they're kind of pulling back. They're not also touching you as you're trying to touch them. You know, you go in for a kiss, they kind of lean away. You see them maybe doing some fidgeting behaviors like playing with their hair or picking up their skin. And it's not to say that like, these things don't mean other things. Cause like some people are just anxious people, but you can't just assume that. Just take that as something may be going in here. I need to like really check in and just really in a very like empathetic tone, just reaffirm like, are you sure you want to do this and offer something else? We don't have to do this. We can go watch a movie or we can, you know,
00:22:42
funwithsexpodcast
Maybe you don't want to give hat. You don't have to give hat. Do you want to make out? Do you want to just cuddle? I think it's super important to like understand that there are people like Natalie said who are anxious. There's also a lot of people who suffer from sexual shame where they do want to be here, but they have a guilt about what they're doing. And that's why giving people the opportunity to opt out of sex or to opt in and keep going is essential. And that's why check-ins are so important to to consent.
Consent as an Ongoing Journey
00:23:11
funwithsexpodcast
The way that like I like envision is you're right in a train. A train has multiple stops. You can take the train all the way to the end or you can get off at all these multiple stops. The train gives you the opportunity to stop and get off. And that's what sex is supposed to look like. And that's what consent looks like. Consent is not just saying yes at the start for one blanket. You can do whatever for however long. It is also the responsibility of both parties to give everyone the opportunity to get off the train.
00:23:41
funwithsexpodcast
Yeah. And I think that the other thing that is super, super important is that if you do, if somebody does decide to opt out the train, don't make them feel bad about it. Even if you're disappointed, if you make somebody feel awkward or bad, they may opt into sex just for wanting to please the other person or to make things less awkward. But in reality, all you're doing is like hurting that person. and never And if it's a long-term partner that may create a cycle where then in the future, they don't want to disappoint you. So they just always agree to do sexual things when they don't really want to. And like we we can have an entire podcast episode about this later.
Challenges and Conclusion
00:24:25
funwithsexpodcast
What I will say is that like I think we can get to a society where everybody has enthusiastic consent.
00:24:33
funwithsexpodcast
The reality is that, especially in the United States with purity culture, it's really hard to gauge enthusiastic consent because there are a lot of people who do want to have sex, who are so ashamed and socialized not to want to have sex, that even if they want to do it, it's hard for them to enthusiastically show it, which is why the other person Actually, why both people need to do check-ins to make sure that the person still wants to be there because it's very hard to gauge I don't want to be here I'm anxious about having sex with also versus I'm also ashamed to be having sex and I'm in my head Yeah, all right. Well, this is today's episode of the fun with sex podcast. I hope you have a good day