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You've Got Mail
30 Plays18 days ago
Strap in, girlies! Emma & Katie discuss the romcom "classic" You've Got Mail, and Katie has some...issues with Mr. Joe Fox in this one. We talk about the long history of this story, struggle with a barking (but adorable) dog, talk bookstores, debate what's worse: a murderer or a CEO? And Katie's Joe Fox impression sounds like Dracula.
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Transcript
Podcast Subscription and Listener Engagement
00:00:00
Speaker
ah My favorite thing from my friend's trip here to Connecticut was the fact that like I mentioned the podcast to them, and my friend Robert was like, wait, I thought you only did that one episode that you sent me. And I was like, no, you have to subscribe to it, Robert. Robert? There's a podcast episode every week. And I was like, and I know that you two are not listening because I can see.
00:00:28
Speaker
i could say
00:00:31
Speaker
And that goes for all of you listening. week We know. when you're We know. We're like
00:00:58
Speaker
seven months ago and we said I believe that the episode that aired that week we probably is when we promised that we would read them aloud if someone left a review oh yeah so we have two reviews one one from go get this cast that's the name of the person so I'm guessing they created an account just to do this so I'm assuming this is a friend or loved one of ours. Our number one fan is what I'm assuming. That's true. It could be our number one fan, which yeah I assumed was Charlie, but I did too. I think that he's our number one nemesis. That's true. That's true. Yeah. um March 13th, 2024. These ladies are hysterical. I could listen to them wax romantic, sad and camp all darn day.
00:01:47
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Thank you. That's very sweet. Thank you so much. I am stars. Another one, Brunch Time Movie Convo is the title of the review, which cuts off. And even when I click on it, it doesn't say what that is. This is by Demolition Donut.
00:02:08
Speaker
Love it. Katie and Emma are so much fun to listen to, witty and energetic, and also incredibly insightful and engaging. I have thoroughly enjoyed every ep, whether or not I've seen the rom-com du jour and their conversations have only made me more excited to complete my rom-com viewing canon. Five stars. Thank you so much.
00:02:25
Speaker
Thank you so much. Yeah, you don't have to be as effusive in your praise. As long as it's five stars, we'll read it ah no matter what. Yeah. Even if it's just, go get this donut, five stars. Yeah. We'll say, go get this donut, said five stars. Yeah, for sure. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no. no if they leave If they leave a review, we'll we'll read it out loud. So I lied.
00:02:50
Speaker
But it doesn't tell us who gives the ratings. It only tells us the name if they leave a review. So we can't do that. Yeah. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. This is an Apple podcast, at least. If you leave a review on Spotify or something, I don't even know how to check that. I don't. So we'll look into it. Yeah.
Exploring Connecticut: Fairs and Festivals
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah. But thank you so much. We're so glad that you guys are enjoying our wonderful podcast talking about rom-coms. And also, if you're still listening,
00:03:17
Speaker
the scary movies and go get your ghoul. That's true. Yeah. And we we did it more than once. Yeah. Yeah. Which episode did Robert think was the one off? Um, and anyone but you, because remember I kept quoting him and I was like, Robert, I'm quoting you in the anyone but you episode because you said, gave me the best review, which is anyone but you is anything but good. Yeah. and Yeah. Um,
00:03:45
Speaker
But they were here in New England. They had a grand time. We went to so many fairs and festivals. Yeah. We went to a harvest festival that was secretly. Is that where you sacrifice somebody in a big wooden person? Yes. OK. No, no. It's just where you celebrate apples. OK.
00:04:07
Speaker
um and We we also have those in the Midwest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah yeah yeah Well, they're from Texas. Oh, I see. So this is like very different from their home life. And ah the harvest festival was surprisingly Trumpy. And so we were not a fan. on And then we went to the garlic festival.
00:04:31
Speaker
The Garlic Festival, the Garlic Festival Valley. Yeah. Yep. Yep. The Garlic Festival. And um that was surprisingly not Trumpy and great. And we got so many jams and jellies and pestos and hot sauces and syrups. It was a grand, grand old time. And then we went to Salem and walked around and um got wildly drunk and I saw Did some karaoke. And how is Salem in October? Really chill they change cool? Oh, yeah. Super chill. Super chill. You can just walk in anywhere. There's no lines. Absolutely no. Parking was a breeze, I'm sure. Oh, such a breeze. It actually was because ah my friend Robert got us a hotel room that gave us a free parking spot. Oh, that's so important. yeah We just utilized that and then walked everywhere.
00:05:26
Speaker
but um
00:05:29
Speaker
We got so drunk like and poor Charlie bless bless his little cotton socks.
A Night Out in Salem
00:05:36
Speaker
He We were went hold on hold on Let's back up. Did you say bless his cotton socks? Yes What is what is that all about? It's a Charlie ism I don't know he says it and so then I started saying it and now I know how to Not say it. Yeah, British nonsense. so It's the British version of bless his heart. I Yeah, exactly. Bless his little cotton socks. Dear. But yeah, so we went to this one bar called All Souls, and it was one of two gay bars in Salem, and they were serving us, right? Pretty surprising. I mean, all the other gays. I guess it's a small town. It's a small town. Yeah, yeah. But they were serving, so they did like pints. Like I got a gin and tonic pint.
00:06:29
Speaker
Oh, a gin and tonic pint is for real. yeah Yeah, my friends were drinking vodka soda pints. And Charlie was only doing beer because they like vodka sodas. I don't know, I don't know. um But my friend Robert, I know, I know, at least gin and tonic has flavor. um But Charlie was drinking, like meeting us pint for pint, but he was drinking beer. So Robert, Walter and I were annihilated by the time we got to dinner.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah. free dinner pipe this was before We like four. um Yeah, we'll sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. yeah And then we went to dinner and um none of us except for Charlie remember what we ate.
00:07:15
Speaker
Let's say it's kind of a blur after that, I imagine. Yeah. And then we went around Salem taking pictures with all the statues where there was like lines of people during the day. And we we just we took all the pictures and then we went and we found a bar that was doing karaoke and I made a new friend. Uh huh. I don't remember her name. Yeah. But um she was very nice and kind and she kept buying birthday shots.
00:07:39
Speaker
i'm oh dear I decided that I've added Pink Pony Club into my karaoke rotation. It's a good one. It's a good one. um And then I sang Total Looks of the Heart. And then I put like eight other songs in, but but I think the guy thought I was harassing him. So he stopped giving me songs. You thought that you were harassing him or you were harassing him? I did espresso and it was bad. And then I stopped getting songs.
Morning Routines and Early Risers
00:08:08
Speaker
oh i'm sorry i know and it was before my good songs yeah but you were you were schwaisted i was very drunk yeah i was very very drunk and then charlie woke me up the next morning and with like a little chocolate mousse cake and ah a card and i was like how when did you leave the hotel and he's like it's one pm yeah No, it was like, it was like nine, but he was just like, well, some of us have lived a full day. My daddy used to say that. We would be like, be like Saturday. It's like 10 30 a.m. and like the the power saws going off in the garage. And he's like, what are y'all doing? I've had, I've been up since five. The day's half over. That's what my daddy used to say a lot. The day's half over. So he goes to bed at 10.
00:09:06
Speaker
and No, no, my dad just didn't sleep very much. like oh which Unfortunately, I've inherited, um I don't know about my sisters, I should talk to them. um i Yeah, this this morning, for example, so i do I worked in the morning because I switched to somebody. So I had to be at work at 8 a.m. this morning and I woke up at 4.45. Jesus! And couldn't go back to sleep. I mean, I will i did go to bed at 11, so like 11 to 4.45 is like, you know, that's almost six hours.
00:09:35
Speaker
it's like normal i'm amount of sleep. Do you think six hours is a normal amount of sleep? It is for me, yeah. Like I just wake up, i can I wake up and then I'm awake and I can't do anything about it. Caitlin, just go back to sleep a million times. Yeah. I don't know. Charlie and I could both sleep for like days.
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, bless my friends. It's good to have one of these. Yeah. Yeah, but we don't. My friends Robert and Waldron are like you and because they're teachers and they wake up at like six or seven no matter what time they went to bed. And so like they would get up and just be like hanging out, half bagels, showered, all that fun stuff. And I'd like roll out of bed at 11. Like, hey guys, I'm just going to take my time to be like, we are ready to go.
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah. I like to have a plan. Sometimes the plan is to get up late. And like i can I'll wake up. I can do my little little word games. I can fuck around on the internet for like three hours on my phone and and get out of bed at 10.30. But I've been awake since 7, for sure. Yeah.
You've Got Mail: A Rom-Com Analysis
00:10:40
Speaker
Amazing. I love that. Well, as we all know, waking up early notoriously featured in today's film.
00:10:49
Speaker
We've gone from famously to notoriously. To notoriously, yes. yeah That's right, guys. ah This is the podcast where Emma and Katie have secret pen pals on the internet.
00:11:07
Speaker
and they fall in love with their pen pals, only find out that their pen pals are their nemeses. Is that the duplicate of nemeses? I think it's nemeses. Our nemeses. And we look past all the flaws and the fact that they get gas lit us and we fall in love. That's right, guys. This is Go Get Your Girl. And I'm Emma. And I'm Katie. And today we're talking about the For some reason, rom-com classic, you've got me all from 1998, written by Nora Ephron and Delia Ephron, and directed by Nora Ephron. Rom-com auteur, Nora Ephron. This is the first movie directed by her that we have discussed on this show. Our very first episode was written by Nora, but not directed by her. oh her Yeah. her
00:12:07
Speaker
um Sleepless in Seattle and You've Got Mail were the two big 90s Nora Efron rom-coms but she has done a few other movies. And this is ah this is ah a huge classic for a lot of people and I am not one of those people. I was gonna say you're really distancing yourself from this movie, Katie.
00:12:30
Speaker
This is a lot of people's classics, you know, but I'm not one of those people. ah You know, some people might claim.
00:12:41
Speaker
um This is a classic in the Plaza household. I frickin' love this movie so much. And yes many people yes, rewatching it as an adult, taking away some of the glimmer from Tom Hakes being charming. There are some problems with his character. We will get into that. Yeah. um I do like to sometimes play the game in my head post-ROM-com, would this couple still be a couple? Or would this couple have broken up? And I don't know if they can be so like sustainable. Yeah. There's not a lot of sequels to ROM-coms.
00:13:25
Speaker
um you get you get a spiritual sequel to a rom-com. This is a, this is a this is ah it's not really a spiritual sequel either. It's more of just ah a repairing. yeah Like Sleepless in Seattle, which has also got some problems, was a huge hit and a big classic and it kind of ushered in the the whole, I mean Harry Metz Alley did a few years before, but Sleepless in Seattle also was such a phenomenon and created like a boom in rom-coms for everyone.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, repairing both the writer director and both stars of that movie was a was a big deal um yeah in 1998, which I, you know, don't remember. um and I'm sure you don't either because we are too young to have seen this movie in the theater. Exactly. But boy, oh boy, did I have it on VHS. Yeah. Yeah. um and And here's the thing. And here's one of the reasons why I probably don't have this.
00:14:21
Speaker
um this nostalgia for this movie is because I didn't see it when I was a kid. Oh, well that explains it. Yeah, I know. I saw Sleepless in Seattle when I was a kid on VHS or whatever. I rented that probably, I guess. And for whatever reason, I just never, it was probably like me, like email, really? Fuck off, I don't know why I watched that. I don't know what movie about email. 12 years old, fuck off with your email movie.
00:14:53
Speaker
Um, so, uh, yeah. The, um, I probably did say that actually. I was yeah pretty foul mouthed as a 12 year old. I don't lie. I don't, I do not doubt it. People start cursing. Like I feel like middle school is normal. time Middle school. Yeah. I remember being in middle school, dropping a book and saying, fuck. And then a teacher turning around and giving me the evil eye. Oh, that's it. You didn't get in trouble. No. Yeah.
00:15:24
Speaker
I got in trouble. Yeah, I got in trouble a lot and in school. um I have what's what's what's known as a disrespect for authority. And I haven't really gotten over that, actually. I mean, live your life. It was ingrained in you. There's a thing. there's like If somebody tells me what to do, I immediately don't want to do it, even if it's definitely the right thing to do. Like, there is this piece of me that's like,
00:15:53
Speaker
Don't tell me but what to do. What do you... Don't fucking tell me what to do. Charlie is very similar. He's very, very similar. if i ah If I tell him to do something, he'll be like, well well, now I'm not gonna do it. He's like, well, not with my loved ones. Tell me to do things. Anyway, this movie... Yes.
00:16:16
Speaker
It is based on a a long series of things, actually. So originally it was a ah play by Miklos Lazlo called Parfumari, which is a is Hungarian, but it sounds like it was in French or at least the title was in French because that means, you know, perfume store in French.
00:16:41
Speaker
And then it was turned into the movie in 1940, The Shop Around the Corner with Jimmy Stewart. And um what's her name? Laura McCall. No.
00:16:55
Speaker
I want to say Dorothy Asner, but that's not right. It's Margaret Sullivan. Yeah, Margaret Sullivan, Mary Stewart, 1940, rom-com, An Absolute Delight, a Christmas movie also, which is why i I think in the previous episode, I said, isn't this a Christmas movie? Because I was thinking of The Shop Around the Corner. Yeah. But this is a 365.
00:17:12
Speaker
12 months all through the year movie. Yeah. Although they don't do they do. Do they have a Christmas scene in this? We do. I'll also warn you. um We watched we had to move recording dates on this. So we I watched this a full seven days ago. So. Yep. Yep. We'll see how this goes. Who can tell what I remember?
00:17:32
Speaker
No, I know this movie like the back of my hand. um and i have I have more pages of notes for this than any movie since sleep since ah Harry Met Sally, though. Really? I have really one, two, three, four, five, six pages of notes. Jesus. Is it all criticizing Tom Hanks? No, it's not. There's a lot to love about this movie.
00:17:56
Speaker
There's some very cute things in this movie, which we will get to, yes. Yes. Oh, but yes, to answer your question, they do have a Christmas scene. There's the whole, like, it's sort of because a lot of time passing is shown through the shop around the corner's window display. That's right, yeah. You see, like, the Christmas display. Well, first you see, like, the back to school and then the Halloween and then the Thanksgiving and then the Christmas. She's putting out decorations a lot, yeah. Yeah, she does a lot with decorations. I mean, it is a question, a question to say, would the shop around the corner had survived? Would it have survived if she had just taken an ounce of her window display budget and put it towards something else? It's possible. If just turned it into discounts, because that's apparently what they're getting killed on is book sales. Yeah.
00:18:53
Speaker
This movie, and so yeah, so Shop Around in the Corner 1940, I think that movie has arguably aged better than this movie.
00:19:02
Speaker
There's also a Judy Garland version of the Shop Around the Corner. So they made a musical movie. Yes. Which I didn't write down because I'm stupid, called Hey. Hey.
00:19:18
Speaker
um I'm dog-singing, so if there's one of that in the good old summertime. Yep, in the good old summertime. Sorry, Judy Garland and Van Johnson. And I have not seen that much. I have. I saw it with Friend of the Pond, Madison Smith, at um the Gene Siskel Film Center a few years ago. Yeah. And I know. Well, it takes place and in Chicago, in like 1912 Chicago. Hey, what are you barking at?
00:19:52
Speaker
no Be nice. Sorry.
00:20:00
Speaker
This is gonna be fun for me to edit. Hey, it's just like, it sounds like you're the dog's therapist. What are you barking about? What is your trauma? Listen, I used to teach first grade and I have a bit of a soft touch, okay?
00:20:18
Speaker
I love it, I love it. um But yeah, in the good old summertime, I mean, during, I think there's a pretty famous gif of Judy Garland into her red dress doing, I don't care, I don't care. And that's from in the good old summertime. Oh, sure, I don't care. Yeah, I know that song. Yeah, yeah, that's from that. um Yeah, and then in 19, so that's 1949. And then in 1963, there was a Broadway musical called She Loves Me by Bock and Harnick.
00:20:49
Speaker
Which is, he brought me ice cream. And She Loves Me is a delight. um yeah Love She Loves Me. Super cute. I used to do an audition song from that. Baldwin didn't like that. on um and Got some opinions about She Loves Me.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah, and then they have that has that has been revived recently with yeah um noted, um terrible person Zachary Levi, for example. Yeah, but also RIP Gavin Creel. Oh, yeah, yeah, Gavin Creel did it, too. Yeah. Yeah, I love Gavin Creel.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, Baldwin, you don't like that. Baldwin also a big fan of the late Gavin Creel. Do we need to do something about this?
00:21:41
Speaker
He's just staring at me. You just want attention, don't you? Do you wanna come over here and I can pet you? Is that what you want? You fucking monster? Okay.
00:21:53
Speaker
Now you know what parenthood is like. Gonna cut this out. I love that. ah But yeah, she loves me absolute delight. um And then were there any other, then you've got mail? Yeah, then you've got mail.
00:22:09
Speaker
um And yeah, so this was 1998 it the story is basically a in the shop around the corner, they both work at the same store. And I assume that's true in Parle-Perfuméry as well. Yeah. And in the in the um summertime or in the late summer, the Judy Garland one, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. They are not competitors, and he does not own a bookstore. And the it will neither of them, yeah in both this movie, they both own their bookstores. But he is not a um
00:22:41
Speaker
a corporate crusader um as he is in in this movie. And like, it's 1998. So I guess we're trying to imagine a different time. Yes. Bookstores also, so this this movie concerns itself with two anachronisms, basically, two things that don't exist anymore. Yeah, books, major bookstores and AOL. yeah And I can't imagine how much money AOL must have paid it to to be featured in this movie. um Yeah, I don't know how that worked. I don't know if it was like, the title came first, because like,
00:23:22
Speaker
I guess in 1998, it was a good title. I like it. was Yeah, you've got me. It was the cultural zeitgeist. I mean, like, yeah, getting getting an email was a big deal in 1990. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a big deal. And I mean, like, Meg Ryan's boyfriend in this movie goes through this whole like monologue about how technology is a piece of shit boyfriend. Greg Kinnear about how email and computers and the internet is ruining society and how we should all go back to using typewriters. He's obsessed with this typewriter. It's ridiculous. Can you imagine Frank in 2024? His head would explode. His head would explode. He'd be like, I'm sorry, we all have computers in our pockets?
00:24:10
Speaker
I mean, I'm like with AI and crypto and the robots and the, I can't, he would not have survived. Well, I mean, here's the whole thing. Frank was a writer for The Village Voice. I'm sure he wouldn't have a job. I believe he was a writer for The New York Observer. Oh, sorry, The New York Observer. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, that nut from The Observer. It's a line from the movie. But he wouldn't have a job.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the village voice like is um sort of in a um like, I mean, they the village voice went out of business, but they still have like the website. Is that basically where the village voices at this point?
00:24:55
Speaker
I have no idea. Yeah. The New York Observer ceased publication in 2016 and became an online-only newspaper, The Observer. Yeah. So The New York Observer is still online. I believe The Village Voice still has their website. Yeah. Well, and you know Frank would absolutely refuse to write any of his articles on a computer. Yeah. The Village Voice came back in print in 2021 as a quarterly. So good for them. Oh, nice. Good for them. Let's bring back physical media. Yeah.
00:25:25
Speaker
um Well, my first note for this movie is this soundtrack slaps.
00:25:31
Speaker
I don't remember the soundtrack. It's been seven days.
00:25:39
Speaker
So 1998, I'm guessing it's like the Mahaman, 98 degrees. No, no, it's none of those things. Celine Dion. It's like all like 60s music. It's so sweet and nice and cozy. Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. So Harry Met Sally had standards like jazz pop standards from the 1950s and 40s. And so this is like 60s, like what, like like doo-wop stuff and girl- Yeah, there's a little bit of doo-wop, there's, oh God, who's that singer that did the title song for Russian Doll? There's a lot of his songs. I think, duh, duh, duh, duh. Oh, I never really have. I've never seen Russian Doll. You've never seen Russian Doll? I know, I'm sure I love it, yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. So basically, the plot, you look that up and I'll start the plot. OK. Basically, the plot is Meg Ryan owns this children's bookstore called The Shop Around the Corner. Cute. Yeah, cute. In the Upper West Side, Tom Hanks and his toxic lineage of terrible, womanizing men owns Barnes & Noble. Yeah, we get a danceable jump scare. Yeah, for God's sake, I know.
00:26:58
Speaker
um He owns Fox Books, which is Barnes and Noble, basically. Like it's a huge. F-O-X. Yes, exactly. They're bookstore superstores, which seems so quaint now. Can you imagine? I know.
00:27:15
Speaker
Like everybody, like our age loves Barnes and Noble. Imagining a time where Barnes and Noble is some kind of evil corporate giant is so alien to to my understanding because yeah I worked at Barnes and Noble for three years. um Horribly misrun, like mismanage company.
00:27:37
Speaker
thanks So bad. I worked there for three years. We had five CEOs in the three years that I was there. Jesus fucking Christ. I quit. And then six months later, every manager got fired without notice. They showed up to every manager in the entire nation, showed up to work, and they were like, you don't work here anymore. The only the the the the GMs, the the store managers and were the only ones who kept their jobs. All of the other managers got fired on one day. Insane. Yeah, it was crazy.
00:28:08
Speaker
Oh my God. But yeah, Barnes and Noble, it seems like it's having a slight comeback. They are like they they closed every every store in Chicago in like before 2020.
00:28:19
Speaker
And now they've reopened a couple of them as much smaller stores, which I think is smart. um So maybe they're doing okay. I'm rooting for Barnes and Noble. um As much as ah I am ah an anti-corporate person, I do love a Barnes and Noble. like I kind of grew up in a Barnes and Noble. When I was a kid, we would hang out at Barnes and Noble after school.
00:28:42
Speaker
Like all that Harry Potter midnight releases, that was like a big thing um in the early 2000s. And that memory is not polluted by anything. Of course, there's nothing wrong with it at all. We don't need to look into that at all. um But yeah, I mean, like it's a notorious place that people go to go poop.
00:29:07
Speaker
um especially in new york city oh yeah the the union square barnes and noble which i believe is still there um it's four floors uh and it is the only place the only free bathroom within a mile like if you are anywhere in the union square bathroom it's like okay so you want to go to barnes and noble so we can go to the bathroom yep yep there you go i desperately wanted to go to that barnes and noble because that's the filming location for that was the fox books Or maybe it's not that one. No, no. It was the Columbus Circle one, I think. The Columbus Circle. Whichever one I wanted to. There might have been one on the Upper West Side that they shot on, but it definitely wasn't the Union Square one. It's it's very distinct. Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, the the um you've got male one. I wanted to take Charlie too, but I accidentally took him in the wrong direction for like five blocks. And then Charlie said, absolutely not. Let's go to a different bookstore. It happens. um So it happens. And obviously, yes, you should go to independent bookstores and support them and everything. But like, sometimes a Barnes and Noble is nice.
00:30:11
Speaker
It just hits sometimes, you know? Which is like, what happens at the end of this movie, we'll get there. This is gonna be a long episode, y'all. Yeah, so Charlie actually brings up a very interesting point. Throughout this entire movie, we are sort of accosted with a lot of like 90s-isms, you know, from the AOL to um Yeah, to like Barnes and Noble being a big like corporate thing. And then also Starbucks. Starbucks is, some might say, the third main character of this movie.
00:30:47
Speaker
But Starbucks is very much featured in this film. And so every time there was a chart ah Starbucks, on the screen, Charlie was like, wait, hold on, let's take a minute here. So she has a huge problem with Fox Books, but she has no problem going to Starbucks, even though Starbucks probably put that one cafe that she had her first date at under, because Starbucks is basically the coffee version of Barnes and Noble. Except more evil.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yeah, except more evil. but um I don't think, I don't think Barnes and Noble operates any slaves in the, um like in South America or we're in the coffee growing regions. Yeah. Allegedly, allegedly. Quote unquote. and But yeah, Starbucks for a movie that is so about, you know, support local business otherwise my grind sad. It's absolutely not about that. It's not about that in the least. I mean, the thing about Starbucks, like, I mean, in in um Nora Efron has a bug in her butt about Starbucks, like she had it's in Sleepless in Seattle, where Tom Hanks, she loves to have these little like tight five stand up bits in her in her scripts. Like, it's yeah, it's a binary met Sally to
00:32:14
Speaker
In in um and Sleepless in Seattle, Tom Hanks is like complaining about mocha chinos, which is not a real thing. That's not a word. Why would you put chocolate in a cappuccino? That's not real. Wouldn't that just be a mocha? Yeah, just be a mocha. It's just called a mocha or a mocha latte. Starbucks. So if I went to Starbucks and was like, can I get a mocha chino? They would look at me like I was insane.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yes, yes, and I believe, and I don't think that that's ever been a thing. like i google I remember like Googling it um when he said, because he says it in this movie too, he calls it a mocha chino, which I guess would be a chocolate cappuccino, which is like why.
00:32:57
Speaker
um
00:33:00
Speaker
And I looked at like old Starbucks menus from the 90s, and they definitely don't say mocha chino, at least then, so I don't know. Maybe that's a pizza coffee thing, I don't know.
00:33:12
Speaker
Anyway, uh, so there's little bits like that in here too. It's like him complaining in the letters. It'll be like, okay, this is Nora Efron. Like Scott, a little standup bit, just like yeah throw the brick wall behind her for a second. Um, it's very, it's very transparent. It's very transparent. It's very eye rolling. Yeah. It's, it's kind of like an episode of Seinfeld where they they' like turned standup routines into a conversation. Yeah.
00:33:38
Speaker
Um, it's very nineties, I guess is the best way to say it. And in that way, I think in, in, in, it's, it's another way that this movie has aged poorly. Um, it is, it's a little, it's, it's, it's a little hard to watch, uh, things like that. Um, but yeah, just the thing is like, it's not like pro pro small bookstore. Like she at the end, like we're supposed to believe. Okay. Let's let's we're, we're getting ahead of ourselves.
00:34:06
Speaker
She owned a children's bookstore 35 minutes in. She owned the children's bookstore. Around the corner. Or the shop around the corner. The shop around the corner. And it's been there for a long time. Her mother yes owned the bookstore and she grew up there. There's no yeah talk of her father at any point and there's no talk of Tom Hanks' is mother except for like one fleeting line.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, they these these these these people are very surrounded like she has a very feminine energy. She interacts almost entirely with either women or Steve Zahn. Tom Hanks only interacts with men. Tom, the time except for Parker Posey, who is also masculine coded. Like she is a she's a she's a hard like jumpsuit ah jumpsuit jumpsuit.
00:34:57
Speaker
A dress suit, I guess, is what I'm saying. Dress suit, yeah. She wears, she's the Miranda. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And um and Dave Chappelle and Dabney Coleman, his father, and some old man who plays his grandfather. like That is his whole sphere. So we've immediately got that kind of dichotomy that keeps getting repeated over and over in this movie also.
00:35:21
Speaker
Um, so you are inclined to, to pull for Meg Ryan because, you know, independent bookstore family run, she has an attachment to her mother.
00:35:31
Speaker
Tom Hanks is a is a corporate, who they they laugh about putting stores out of business in yeah an early scene. In one of the very first scenes that you see, um it is, number one, that he asks what the fabric that he got his couch recovered or that he got his pills recovered called, and his dad goes, it's called money. And then immediately they go into how they got another bookstore, independent bookstore out of business.
00:36:00
Speaker
And you're just like, who the fuck are these people? This is our hero in this movie. Yep. But he has he grows, he learns to love. Sort of.
00:36:23
Speaker
So when we start the movie, they are already emotionally cheating on their partners, we should also say. This is a cheating rom-com. We've covered a few of these now. Not not ever my favorite genre. um She has a boyfriend who is the literal worst. ah grade to Great community. His name is Frank. And he is so annoying.
00:36:44
Speaker
um he yeah He has typewriter, like which is funny because Tom Hanks in real life collects typewriters. Oh, yeah. That's one of the fun facts. Yeah, he collects typewriters. um He's got two exactly the same that he's keeping in Meg Ryan's apartment for some reason. Yeah, they do not won't live together. He has three, they don't live together. But he has two of the same. And then he's got another one at his apartment. So he has three of the same typewriter. And he also wrote an article about it, as well as an article about the the Rosenbergs.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yes, the Rosenbergs, yeah yeah. He is kind of painted as this like insufferable leftist, which is kind of annoying um because he's right in a lot of ways, but he's just annoying about it. And I feel like that's another like Nora Ephron um like annoyance thing. um And anytime like people like people on the left are are mocked in a movie, I have to like wonder about the politics of the person who who wrote it.
00:37:47
Speaker
And I understand 1998 was a different time, but like, come on. Like, what, what, what you doing here? Yeah. Um, so yes, they are, they're sneaking around, sending each other emails and they met in a chat room.
00:38:03
Speaker
but Yeah, in an over 30s chat room. She she has this whole monologue about it. She's like, I went in as a joke, and we just started talking. And we send each other emails. And she's like, she's so transparent about it with like, her co workers.
00:38:19
Speaker
And her co-worker slash, I assume, business partner who runs the accounting runs the accounts for store, who's like a surrogate mother for her. yeah They're all rooting for her to cheat on Frank. Yeah, because nobody can stand Frank. Nobody likes Frank!
00:38:39
Speaker
um Yes, so that is Jean Stapleton, um the the mom from All in the Family, as as Birdie, the the woman who used to work that has worked there since her mom owned the store. She's always kind of been like, she's the manager, I guess.
00:38:56
Speaker
yes She does the books and all of that. and Because Meg Ryan just flits around. Yeah, and does window displays. Doesn't seem to do anything except for window displays. Yeah. Also, they're going out of sale business whenever, I mean, spoiler, we've already mentioned the store goes under. But like, and whenever they're like,
00:39:19
Speaker
having their their clothes out blowout sale. They're just like giving shit away. Like left right and center. They're like, you want this box of tissues? Here's this box of tissues. You want this chair if it's not hammered down, you got it. Yeah. Um, it's a Yeah, it's because like the movie is structured to make you think that that's not going to happen. And it's very surprising. When you see this for the first time, it's like, oh, he he did put her out of business. He did. He doesn't have a change of heart. Like he puts her out of business. um Okay, we're we're still ahead of ourselves. And it's been 41 minutes.
00:39:56
Speaker
So that's Meg Ryan. And they're sending each other these emails that are, so oh, and Tom Hanks has a girlfriend, Parker Posey. It doesn't seem to be as serious with her as Meg Ryan's relationship with Greg Kinnear, but it is still a relationship. Like they don't live together. um And she is kind of fine. Like she's not she's not awful. I think that maybe we're supposed to think that she's awful, but she's not really.
00:40:24
Speaker
No. She's like, she's just maybe somebody I wouldn't be friends with. But she's doesn't. She's by no means a bad person. And um honestly, like, tries to get Meg Ryan a job after. Yeah. Which Meg Ryan turns down for for what reason exactly? Like, she doesn't. She doesn't want a stable job that makes you money. she No, no, no, no. She wants to just live in her fancy ass Upper West Side apartment for $0. Yeah.
00:40:54
Speaker
it very much the Sex in the City sort of mentality of what it's like to live in New York. They all live in beautiful homes, which is believable for Tom Hanks because he is a billionaire or a millionaire um he and he has a boat. But um it was just very hard to for me to believe that Meg Ryan would have this gorgeous walk up in like Brownstone on the Upper West Side. um the On the Upper West Side, yeah. She owns a little itty bitty bookstore. Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
And there is a little bit of talk, I think like Steve Zahn talks about how his apartment is rent controlled at one point because they're talking about their apartments and Meg Ryan, there's no there's no comment about Meg Ryan's. Huge. Giant. I imagine two bedroom apartment. Yeah. With a piano? With a piano.
00:41:50
Speaker
And here's the thing, this is, I think this is another Nora Ephron being out of touch thing. And this is, this is very, this becomes true of Nancy Meyers as well. The other like, you know, rom-com auteur of the more of the 2000s with, uh, with Nancy Meyers. They like, they are rich people. They are rich intellectual professional writers who have made millions by writing, which is very uncommon.
00:42:15
Speaker
And they can only kind of write about people that have the same experiences that they do, um which makes it hard to watch as somebody who's poor.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not living like ah a kind of charmed existence with a fake job and no yeah worries other than, then romance. And I understand like, you know, in a rom com screenplay, the romance has to be the most important thing. So yes, having a bunch of other issues in your life, um distracts from that, I guess, in the screenplay. And so they want to be rich.
00:42:54
Speaker
they have to be they have to at least not have to worry about it but this movie is about economics in a lot of ways yeah like it's about struggling yeah like oh my god everything's gonna change in like five years yeah they have no idea box books is gonna go under it's gonna be a like a whole thing um i mean amazon existed in 1998 also like yeah but it wasn't the conglomerate that it is today No, but it was starting to push Barnes and Noble like into bad territory, for sure. Yeah. Even then. I did make a note of like this movie made me think that this is what adulthood looked like. And when I got to be an adult, I learned that it's not this pretty. And I was highly disappointed.
00:43:42
Speaker
That's true. That's what happens with all of these movies, like all of us who, especially women, grew up watching these movies, like, expecting certain things, because it's like, it's like when you're in middle school, watching movies about high school, because most yeah movies about high school, and especially books about high school, are targeted to middle schoolers, not to high schoolers. It's aspirational, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the publishing world, at least.
00:44:06
Speaker
And I assume in the children's market in movies as well, you want your protagonist to be a couple of years older than your target audience, not the same age. Yeah. No. So it's, um and that that gets like, it gets written into our genes a little bit um because you absolutely expect that. I mean, like I moved to New York right after college, like expecting a lot of things. Yeah, expecting a brownstone and a job at the shop around the corner. Oh, here's another reason why Kathleen Kelly is, you know, her store went under.
00:44:45
Speaker
What's her name? Who's the best friend in every movie? Who's Heather Burns. Her part-time employee i works there part-time. And then she's talking about how she's gonna lose her apartment because she doesn't have, she won't have this part-time job anymore and she'll have to move to Brooklyn. So she is recording. The worst thing in the world. She goes, I have to move to Brooklyn. brooklyn Oh, to Brooklyn? Super cool expensive Brooklyn.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Get in now. In five years, you're gonna be making bank on your apartment. He says. Right, but like, we are led to believe that she only works part time. She doesn't say anything about being in school. She doesn't say anything else. And she affords a Manhattan apartment. Yeah, on a part time salary.
00:45:39
Speaker
um This is another example, we've talked about it before on the show, about the protagonist must have the best friend who is a decade or plus younger than them. Meg Ryan is 36 years old, Heather Burns is 23, Tom Hanks is 42, and Dave Chappelle is 24. Jesus, Dave Chappelle was so young! Yeah, yeah. Woof. Boy oh boy. Some other ages. um How old was Brinkley?
00:46:10
Speaker
I don't know how old Brinkley was, but he's dead now. Brinkley was the dog, was Tom Higgs's dog. Parker Posey was 29, Greg Kinnear is 35.
00:46:21
Speaker
um Yeah, that's all the ages I have. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's so interesting. um Yeah, this movie, I think, definitely sets up a lot of, it almost is a fantasy book, fantasy book, a fantasy film now.
00:46:39
Speaker
I mean, a lot of rom coms are, but this one specifically is is outside of reality in a lot of ways that a lot of other movies we watch on this show are not. Yeah, because you know how you read fantasy novels, and it's like the villain becomes the hot lover, and then you're just like, oh, it's fine. We're just going to ignore all the terrible shit and murder that he does. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then there's a whole genre of rom-coms about billionaires and about corporate writers and that kind of thing. And mafia.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, I've never been into that shit. I hate that shit. You and I both read a terrible retelling of Captain Hook called Hooked. And that is an excellent example where he's like, I'm not a good person. I'm not a good person. I'm going to go murder, but let's make out. And that's better than being a corporate. Don't say it.
00:47:38
Speaker
and just like so You think that being a murderous Captain Hook mafia guy is better than being Joe Fox? Well, you know, you've got like, he's got some reasons why he killed those people. Not a hard life. I mean, if you look at Joe Fox's lineage of ah male role models, you can see why he is the way he is. Yeah.
00:48:04
Speaker
And he he he thinks he's being charming when he's gaslighting. And that's another thing. Like, I don't think he is charming in this. um I don't think that his little emails are charming. I don't think his little witticisms about fucking Starbucks are are charming. I'd like to point out something. So like, in this movie, Tom Hanks has like a a tight five stand up routine about Starbucks. Yes.
00:48:29
Speaker
and about how people go to Starbucks because they can't order things. And like this is just straight up stand up material from from Nora Evron that she's put into the movie. Not much longer after this movie, honestly. like I think 2011 is when um the movie Role Models came out, which is Paul Rudd and Sean William Scott and a couple of kids. And what's her name? Elizabeth Banks.
00:48:56
Speaker
Which is a cute it's a cute movie. I'm not really a rom-com Maybe we could probably cover it on this show if we wanted to but in that movie Paul Rudd has almost exactly the same thing He's at a Starbucks and he has a breakdown where he's yelling at the Starbucks people. It's another little comedy thing But in that movie that whole scene is about how he sucks like that scene is about this guy fucking sucks and he has to chill and get over himself. And in it like a decade earlier in this movie, it is considered to be charming and cute that he's yeah he's an asshole about Starbucks. I just think that's funny. The same points are made for very different reasons. Yeah, and they're both very charming actors. It's just too complicated. Paul Rudd and Tom Hanks? Yeah.
00:49:48
Speaker
I mean, some would say that like Paul Rudd is the is the inheritor of the Tom Hanks legacy. Like he is. He does have that same kind of super charming. Everyone loves him kind of kind of vibe. Yeah. I can't think of anybody else off the top of my head that I would I would put there ah for that generation to have after Tom Hanks. Yeah. I mean, Paul Rudd is not nearly as popular as Tom Hanks and did not have the career that Tom Hanks had.
00:50:16
Speaker
but he's certainly got the same vibe. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And public persona as well. Like generally considered to be a sweet guy that everybody likes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So funny. That's one page of my notes, by the way.
00:50:32
Speaker
One of six pages of my notes. Jesus fucking Christ. OK, so I do have to say one of my notes is these Godfather references, because at one point in Tom Hanks' emails, he makes all these Godfather references. Several Godfather references. Several Godfather references. And I will say that to this day, those quotes that he says are my, it's my only knowledge of the Godfather.
00:51:01
Speaker
And here's the thing, i've I've seen The Godfather and you haven't. We've talked about this on the on the show before, actually. Yeah. Where we talked about doing like a mini series on boy movies. Oh, yeah. Where we watch like The Godfather and Dummy Darko. Dummy Darko and Fight Club. Yeah, yeah.
00:51:22
Speaker
I've seen the Godfather and I did not get any of those references. I don't know. Seriously? Are they even in the Godfather? I mean, I'm sure they probably are. Leave the guns, take the cannoli. I remember that. But most of the stuff, the main thing that he keeps repeating, which I don't remember. Go to the mattresses. Go to the mattresses. I don't remember that at all. You got to go to the mattresses. I don't know what that means. She even says it to Greg Kinnear and he goes, she goes, do you know what that means? He goes, yes, from the Godfather.
00:51:48
Speaker
What does that mean? Because they don't explain it. It means like to go to war. You have to go to war. Why is that a mattress? It's explained. In the in this movie, it's not. Well, you have to go to the mattresses, Katie. What does that mean? Why is it a mattress? A mattress is where you sleep. You know, to go to war.
00:52:14
Speaker
I'm gonna Google, should I Google it or should we just leave it a mystery? I mean, that's up to you. Go to the mattresses. Go to the mattresses. Wiktionary, the free dictionary from Mario Puzo's gangster novel, The Godfather. Those involved in such a conflict might be expected to stay in hideouts where they would sleep on mattresses rather than beds. Got it. There you go. Yeah, that definitely was not explained. I have no idea what that meant.
00:52:43
Speaker
I was gonna say, do you think that it's like the bigger con of this movie is that Tom Hanks just sort of took his character to heart so hard that he not only wanted to gaslight Kathleen Kelly, he not only wanted to gaslight her, but he wanted to gaslight us, the American people, into thinking that there was the saying in The Godfather that was never in The Godfather.
00:53:10
Speaker
No, I believe it was in The Godfather. I just don't know didn't know what it meant. I mean, he did gaslight America into thinking Tom Fox was a good person. yeah but Joe his name's Joe Fox. What the fuck ever? Just call me Joe. Oh God, we haven't even gotten to the meeting. um Okay, what if Meg Ryan's vests? Hell yeah. 100% behind Meg Ryan's vests. All of her outfits are so 1996, 1998. Yes. Very much so. But in a way that's kind of cute now? I mean, I just remember being so confused because in the final scene when she's walking down the street with Joe and they're talking about how she's going to go meet
00:53:56
Speaker
um NYC 152, her pen pal. um Finally go meet him. um And then Tom Hakes like hits on her and she gets all sad. And then she goes, well, I got to go get changed. Goodbye, Joe. I just remember being so confused because she went from one cardigan outfit to a second cardigan outfit. And I was like, I don't see the difference.
00:54:20
Speaker
I mean, one was for Joe and one was for NYC 152. So.
00:54:27
Speaker
a different vibe. Also, can we talk about the moment when they're just like talking about what NYC 152 might mean? And she's like coming up with some of the cringiest things. She's like 152 people that say that he looks like Clark Gable.
00:54:44
Speaker
Awful, awful. Which we of course see in the first in like one of the opening shots like that he's NYC 152 and then it cuts to his address which is 152 which first of all like basic OPSEC.
00:54:56
Speaker
John Fox? What was it? Joe! It's Joe Fox! Just call me Joe. Basic OPSEC, Joe Fox. Do not put your address in your in your screen name. It was the early days. It was the early days of AOL. It's when those were still available. Also, I got a pet peeve in this movie. The yeah um the beginning of this movie where they they play like the warner the Warner Brothers thing comes up and it's like making internet noises. That's not the modem sound. They're not making the correct modem sound.
00:55:30
Speaker
Like the modem sound is like, bing, bang, bang, bang. Like, come on. We know. It's Harry Nilsson is who they feature a lot. It's Harry Nilsson. Oh, Harry Nilsson, yeah, yeah, yeah. um but that But that sound, and they show that like the 3D rendering is like. Yeah, that's that's not the modem sound, y'all. Like, come on, you could have done it. Maybe it's what it sounds like inside the computer.
00:55:59
Speaker
Oh, okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Maybe this all happened in cyberspace. Maybe this is the prequel to The Matrix. I mean, it did come out the year before The Matrix.
00:56:11
Speaker
um So she's supposed to be 30 because she says on her birthday, she went to the over 30 room as a joke. who um She's actually 37 years old, but yeah I think she can pull off 30. Good for her. Yeah. Good job, Megran. She's talking to Heather Burns, who's basically a child. yeah and At one point, she's even got pigtails. She does. Yeah. Who immediately talks to her about cyber sex, which I'm glad someone mentioned it because that was like,
00:56:42
Speaker
I mean, I guess it's still a thing. They just don't call it that anymore. Now we just call it sexting. Sexting? Yeah. We call it sexting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's essentially the same thing. It's just, I guess you used to do it on email?
00:56:58
Speaker
Surely not, surely they, I mean, they had AIM, like they were talking to, they talked to each other on on inst Instant Messenger later in the movie. That's true, that's true. I was gonna say, if it's just- Nobody would, I mean, I guess like, but here's the thing, so like in like Victorian times and stuff, I'm sure that they they wrote, they were like sexy letters to each other. Yeah. So I'm sure they did it that way when they could, but because that's what they had. So it'd be like, you know, I'm doing this and then like, I await your letter.
00:57:26
Speaker
right? Because then you'd have to like wait. So like, wait, okay, whoa, this is like blowing my mind. So and with sexy Victorian letters, you would have to wait to like get a whole stack to like really get to like the meat of the like horniness. So like, you'd have to wait a while.
00:57:50
Speaker
Well, here's the thing about, um at least in London, I don't know about New York or any place else, but in the um in Victorian London, there were as many as six ah post like visits a day. So you could write a letter in the morning, have it sent off, and be responded to hours later. Oh, fantastic, JK. So you would only have to wait two hours before getting turned on again. It depends on if they were home.
00:58:15
Speaker
you know
00:58:21
Speaker
Oh my God, oh my God. Anyways, back to the movie. um Yeah, Steve Zahn, the only non-toxic male in this entire i know cinematic universe. And you're led to believe that he's still a little cringy. i yes I mean, I thought he was gay until he started talking about a girlfriend, so. Maybe he's bi. Whatever. Bisexuals don't exist, let's be real.
00:58:49
Speaker
i This is not the stance of this podcast. I'm just going to say like the most. yeah I mean, people are already mad at me for hating this movie, so I might as well throw a few things out. I am bisexual. People who listen to this podcast know that, and we don't need to get into it. Yeah, don't worry about it, but you know who isn't bisexual? You you know who isn't bisexual?
00:59:15
Speaker
Joe Fox. Joe Fox.
00:59:20
Speaker
F-O-X. OK. So yeah. So he's got little kids yeah that aren't his. Nope. It's his aunt and and yeah his um his brother. Brother. Brother. brother yeah Yeah. Because the little girl is his grandfather's daughter. Gross. Jesus Christ. Yep. And the little boy is the um is his dad's wife. I guess they're married. Yeah. yeah yeah His dad, his dad's son. um Yeah. yeah um And so he takes them for the day and like, it's supposed to like, oh, he's good with kids. like Yeah. And then they go to the Upper West Side, like Halloween fair. Yeah. And they go to the bookstore and they Meg Ryan meets them and he doesn't say who he is. But we as the audience know that they are the ones that have been writing these emails to each other.
01:00:15
Speaker
Exactly. Where, like like, I know that Nora Efron is like a funny writer and like someone who, but like these emails are so boring and dull. by Who gives a shit about Brinkley, Tom Hanks? Brinkley. This brings me to the first of Emma's Fun Facts. Emma's Fun Facts. For several years on the Warner Brothers website, you could access and read all of the emails from You've Got Mail. Oh, okay. Yeah. Was it like an AOL channel, like the Warner Brothers channel on AOL?
01:00:57
Speaker
This is like on their website. Do you remember AOL? Do you have like? Oh, yeah. OK, yeah, yeah. Remember like you're getting the disk of like, you know, 5000 minutes or whatever. And then we would we would put it in because we want to aim so bad. But my parents didn't have aim. They didn't have AOL. And so they get so mad when we would load it because they'd be like, well, now we have to take this off the computer and I don't want this. It's expensive.
01:01:23
Speaker
It was expensive, like i don't know I don't know how much it was, but yeah, like dial up. um Yeah, my parents had dial up until I was in high school. yeah I had to beg them for years to switch to cable internet um as it was called then, now it's just called internet. Just the internet. Yeah. What a time. um yeah yeah Definitely remember AOL, definitely remember chat rooms, definitely remember being in inappropriate chat rooms I was not supposed to. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Do I remember that? And that would always be like a little bit of a dare to be like, hey, can you go in and like see what if he asks you what you're wearing and then that would happen and then you'd immediately be like, ah, Jesus can see me.
01:02:15
Speaker
talking to strange men in chat rooms, um pretending to be an adult. And this person is also probably like a 13 year old boy as well. Yes, so exactly. You know, it's part of the millennial experience. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't like Pride and Prejudice, Emma. I know. But you know what? He grows to love it. Does he? He quotes it.
01:02:44
Speaker
Several times. He doesn't say he likes it. He says he's read it. He quotes it. And they are talking about how he's like, and she was too prideful or maybe too prejudiced to understand Mr. Darcy. And are you trying to compare yourself to Fitz William Darcy, you absolute piece of shit? Get his name out of your mouth. Get his name out of your whole mouth. I don't.
01:03:13
Speaker
why I will not buy that they that that is the reason like no it's because he's a terrible person who put her out of business and then gas lights are about it for half a year for like we're not even there we're not even there it doesn't matter I feel like the audience has seen this movie. This is something that, ah so so she convinces her idiot or asshole boyfriend to write a piece about her book in ah her her bookstore in the New York Observer. yeah He calls it a lone read waving boldly in the corrupt sands of
01:03:57
Speaker
of concrete, of com commerce, a lone reed waving boldly in the corrupt sands of commerce. um That's a reason to break up with him right there. He's not even a good writer. um No, he sucks and he's bad. Yeah.
01:04:14
Speaker
And then she- But it does, it gives like momentary popularity, like everybody is there, like they're like, we're gonna, and they all, like everybody goes to convenience. Like they say we're gonna support you and then they don't, which is realistic. It's realistic, yeah. Like that children's book author who's just like, I promise I'm not gonna go do my reading to Fox Books, you guys get the exclusive. And then what does she do? She has a fucking Christmas reading of Fox Books. Yeah.
01:04:43
Speaker
um see Oh God, here we go. and so like this This is such like a rich New Yorkers idea of a dilemma. The idea that she can't write because she has a job. like she's She's like, I don't know, I kind of always wanted to write children's books. like The bookstore was my mom's dream and it's not really my dream. They're trying to like soft launch the idea that going out of business is a good thing for her.
01:05:11
Speaker
because that's literally what happens. The idea, like what what Nora wants you to take away from this is that it's a good thing that he put her out of business because she was operating the store from a sense of responsibility and not from a sense of love. And what she really wanted to do is write. And because he put her out of business, that gives her the time to write. As if you can't write and have a job at the same time, which is something that only rich people think. yeah Like that is- You can only do one thing at a time.
01:05:41
Speaker
Yeah. Which is not true. It's, and and and like, ah fuck you for suggesting it. Like, come on, like we have to live here. Like we have to get the boot off of our throat before we can um like achieve our, goal it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Yeah. Oh my God. I'm not angry. Aren't you?
01:06:06
Speaker
I feel like there's cute things in the movie too. Yeah, name one thing that you thought was cute, Katie. Steve Zahn screams, I'm going to the nut shop where it's fun. That was really cute.
01:06:25
Speaker
I'm going to start saying that.
01:06:29
Speaker
I'm going to the nut shop where it's fun or the moment at the Thanksgiving the Thanksgiving like party that they go to when Meg Ryan finds out who that he's Joe Fox and ah
01:06:47
Speaker
And Frank comes up and she goes, this is Joe Fox. And Frank goes, oh, well, how do you sleep at night? And Parker Posey comes in. And she's like, I have this excellent over-the-counter drug. You just take out just take a half. Don't take the whole thing. You go to sleep, not even the tiniest hangover. Good for her. Yeah. um Again, she's she doesn't suck. Like, I think we're supposed to think she sucks, but she kind of doesn't suck. um and And to be fair, like,
01:07:16
Speaker
If I was introduced to a person that I hated, like I don't know if I would have the courage to to like call him out to their face. And Strygh can hear, absolutely does, so good for him.
01:07:27
Speaker
That's the one good thing Grant Kinnear does in this movie. Until he then, like, facial cheats on Meg Ryan on national television. Or sorry, local television. Yeah, with Jane Addams interviews him and they like, I fuck each other on public action. They I fuck each other so hard. So hard. And he doesn't even try to deny it. Like, he like goes, oh no. What's going on? What is happening? He goes, you think? You think?
01:07:59
Speaker
Um, which again, like I actually think their breakup scene is pretty good in this, uh, in this movie where they, it's a very mature adult conversation about like, Hey, you know, like, I think this is, we don't really love each other and they're both like, okay, cool. That is, yeah, I think that's probably the most like mature thing that happens in this movie.
01:08:24
Speaker
Um, oh, okay. So here's the, here's the worst thing Tom Hanks does. I mean, aside from put her out of business, I was going to say the worst thing he does in the worst thing he does in person, they go to say bars, a grocery store, um, and the upper West side that is, you know, very famous in stores.
01:08:44
Speaker
Sara Ramirez is the checkout girl. Yep, one of the many Broadway star cameos in this movie. Yeah, three years from getting huge and spam a lot. Yeah. It's a cash-only line. Meg Ryan does not have any cash on her. She only has the credit card. Everyone is very reasonably upset that she's wasted all of their time. She acts like Sara Ramirez owes her Using the credit card even though the register is not set up for it Tom Hanks comes in like he owns the fucking joint It says to this it says to this possibly minimum wage. I don't know what say bars pays Maybe maybe maybe let's let's assume. It's a little bit higher than minimum wage worker zip zip Fuck you so hard dude. Oh my god. Oh Do not zip-zipping me. Say happy Christmas. Okay, now now you're supposed to say it back. Say happy Christmas back. Yeah, exactly. Happy Christmas back? Yes. He's so fucking rude to this worker. And also he like saves her or whatever. And I'm like, imagine a world where a woman went into a store and treated someone that way.
01:10:06
Speaker
like That's, it's impossible. Like he behaves this way because he's a man and he gets away with it because he's a man. And we're expected to think it's charming. That's crazy. But there's this moment. Katie, Katie, Katie, Katie, Katie. Hear me out, right? Okay. So there's this moment that every time I watch this movie, I swoon. And it's towards the end um when he's having a conversation with his dad on the boat and they're going through like all the women that his dad has been through.
01:10:36
Speaker
And ah his dad goes, Oh, what you want me to find the one most perfect, most wonderful person that in my life, I've never met that person. Have you and then it goes to Tom Hanks and you can see the like light bulb go up. And then he's like, I have and it's Kathleen Kelly. And she has to like and then it goes. Hey, yeah.
01:11:04
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know what you're trying to sing, but it sounds like rocks.
01:11:18
Speaker
And then it's like him going to Kathleen's house with the flowers and like how charming and how lovely he is. And they have this beautiful moment. We've jumped forward about an hour. Yeah.
01:11:33
Speaker
Yes, like there are there are things that that work a little bit more better in a more traditional rom-comy way later on.
01:11:44
Speaker
But I have the feeling that the things that this movie finds charming and endearing are not to me. And I don't think they should be to you either, dear listener, not you Emma, but you listener.
01:12:04
Speaker
um this There's quotes here, I can't read my own handwriting. um Oh, and then when he finds out. Okay, so here's the main problem with this movie. ah The number one problem with this movie is that they've been writing these emails to each other. They know each other in person at this point. They supposedly hate each other. They are still writing the emails and then he finds out that it's her yeah and doesn't tell her.
01:12:31
Speaker
and manipulates and uses the information that he gleaned from these emails to get closer to her and to make himself more charming and interesting because of that relationship. In the movie's defense, in the movie's defense, that from the beginning of the path, am I?
01:12:59
Speaker
to the shop around the corner, to She Loves Me, that is the through line. That is the through, is that Joe Fox is a manipulative D-back. Yes, in the shop around the corner, he does find out, but he finds out the the ah but amount of time that passes between him finding out and them getting together is like 12 hours in the shop around the corner.
01:13:29
Speaker
And in this, it's six months? I mean, he had to really let it marinate. And he was busy running Barnes and Noble. I mean, Fox Books. so Also, in the shop around the corner, it is presented as a flaw that he did that. Like, she gets she gets mad at him that he did that in the shop around the corner, right? Am I imagining that? I know that Judy Garland does and in the summertime. I've never seen the shop around the corner.
01:13:55
Speaker
Okay, yeah, it's been a couple of years. We watched it a couple of Christmases ago, most recently, and I don't remember, but I think that's true. I think she does. That is supposed to be, that's like the third act problem in that rom-com. In this, it's not it's not. It's not, it's not, it's not commented on at all. It's not men, it's not, like she's not mad in the least that he did this. um Second question, what the fuck are they singing at Christmas? They're like singing around the piano. Oh, you don't know that song?
01:14:31
Speaker
the horn it's it's like it's a like um you know a stand-around the piano type of song i remember hearing it from this children's movie that I cannot tell you the name of but it it's like all about a mystery you have to solve like it's almost like a murder mystery for kids um and this and there's like little all every thing in the mansion is like personified and you have to like solve this mystery and they sing the song um so that's where I had first heard it and so like I know that that's that's a thing and
01:15:12
Speaker
It's called the Orchestra Song, it says. ah and just I just Googled it, yeah. The Orchestra Song. but Or the Instrument Song, it's also called, yeah. The clarinet, the clarinet goes diddly diddly diddly diddly debt. Kids Movie. Let's see if I can find out. There you go.
01:15:31
Speaker
oh
01:15:36
Speaker
I do not know. I'm sure I will think of it later on, but like I can. Oh man, I wish that I knew it was like one of those weird sort of off brand.
01:15:47
Speaker
like late 80s, early 90s, straight to VHS children's movies. I saw a lot of them that just sort of like stick with me. There's also one that I bring up all the time that nobody else has seen, um which is about this girl who her parents died. She goes to live with her grandmother and um she's got a dollhouse and um basically her Like I think like her aunt or someone ah was like notoriously murdered when her mom was younger and the dolls move at night and they're just play acting out the murder and she's assaulted. Sounds familiar. I don't know. It's like it's like the dollhouse murders. Yeah, the dollhouse murders sounds familiar. Yeah.
01:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a book that then they turn into a um yeah movie. Yeah, I read that. I read that as a kid, for sure. Yeah, oh, thank God. There was a moment that I thought I was going insane. Yeah, that I recognized the cover. Yeah, yeah. But like I always remember that. But like this was like in that same sort of like genre um of like just the like weird, dark kid, but also for kids.
01:17:02
Speaker
Ooh. The clarinet, the clarinet. Now that's gonna be stuck in my song. Thanks, Katie. Supposed to be memorizing the Twas the Night Before Christmas, and now I'm gonna be singing this song. Twas the Night Before Christmas, and all through the house, and that creature was wearing that even in a mouse. It's like set to a song, so it's. Oh. It goes, so um, and it's like to a backup track that you have to like time it out to, and it's like, so we're gonna do, you're gonna be my echo when I say ho, ho, ho. You say ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho.
01:17:32
Speaker
Ho, ho, ho. Yeah, good job. um And then we go, Twas the night before Christmas. And all through the house. No! What did we just go over? Twas the night before Christmas.
01:17:50
Speaker
I was like, are you gonna rap it?
Holiday Humor and Song Discussion
01:17:53
Speaker
It's like semi-wrapped. I was doing it until I was like, why are you doing a weird remix of Twiz the night before Christmas? I was like, this is for the show. Do you all have backwards baseball caps and big cocks are entered next year? Yo, yo. Was it all Christmas and all through the house? Not a creature was stirring
01:18:19
Speaker
I was joking.
01:18:24
Speaker
Oh, that's so cringe. In hopes that St. Nicholas would soon be there. Cross your fingers and hope wish. Cross your fingers and wish hope. Oh, God. I'm getting paid a lot of money. It's for kids. It's for kids. It's for kids. It's for kids. They're going to love it. I woke Baldwin up laughing. Sorry, Baldwin. He's glaring at me again.
01:18:50
Speaker
So any other highlights? So many highlights. um Joni Mitchell's song, River, the fact that that song is sad is not an interesting statement. that's not That's not a new thing. Like the fuck are you talking about? She has this whole bit where she's like, if you listen to River by Joni Mitchell, it's actually a sad song. It's sad. No, it's sad. It's always sad. The piano know ballad about wanting to, at which you had a river so you could skate away from your life is sad.
01:19:25
Speaker
So fucking profound Kathleen Kelly, Jesus. Kathleen. Oh boy, that we can skip some of this, I suppose. I was going to say save it for, you know, the Patreon.
01:19:42
Speaker
i you get to Get a Katie rant. president say We'll just do like, yes, Katie rants. Katie talks about you've got mail.
01:19:54
Speaker
So yeah, so the store goes out of business. She does nothing. She does- She does nothing. Good for her, I guess. Yeah, must be nice. Must be nice, Kathleen Kelly. Yeah, I don't know what happens to Bertie and- Well, Bertie's fine. Bertie says that she- Heather Burns. Oh yeah, we're not- Oh, you're right. She says she has money from Europe, but I don't know what happens to Heather Burns. But she's more new.
01:20:23
Speaker
has to move to Brooklyn. Can you imagine anything worse? And Steve Zahn, what happens to... Oh no, Steve Zahn ends up working at Fox Books. Yeah. And he like runs the children's department. Because she goes there she goes there to Fox Books and like sees that it's kind of nice, which is yeah disgusting. There's this whole scene where it's like, oh, it's not so bad. It's kind of nice. And like I get the idea that like it's a bookstore and it's about people who love books.
01:20:49
Speaker
And, and like, and Christmas Cena is there. And he's a Christmas Cena jump scare. Yeah, where she's like, What is this book? And he's like, Oh, I have no idea, but I can look it up. And Meg Ryan, because you know, she owned a children's bookstore knows off the top of her head the author of these books.
01:21:07
Speaker
and recommends them and this stuff to her. And then later they say that Steve Zahn started working there and has like turned the children's department around with his, you know, knowledge and stuff, which is like, again, I worked at a Martin's and Noble and the people who worked there, we knew a lot about books like we did. Yeah, like people who love books want to work there. Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you want to work in a bookstore if you love books? Yeah. Um, but yeah.
01:21:31
Speaker
um What was he going to say before? Oh, yeah, Bertie's fine because Bertie had ah an affair with. um Generally, Seymour Franco. Yeah, what the fuck? And that's one of them. And that's what I've written right here. It's like he's right about politics, though. Like they get into this argument where he's like, I couldn't I don't know if I like you could be in a relationship with somebody if who didn't share the same politics. Yeah, absolutely. Because they're important.
01:22:01
Speaker
And maybe in 1998, these things weren't considered as important or things weren't as life or death as they are now. But um I'm pretty sure the fascist dictatorship of Francisco Franco was pretty important. The fuck are you talking about? Yeah. And all she said, you know, he he he ran on Spain and like the country.
01:22:27
Speaker
yeah He like there's this guy. I don't know. He like ran Germany in the yeah in the 40s 30s and 40s. Yeah The relationship didn't work out because he was too busy running this but again Greg paneer Greg here is kind of painted as a reactionary because of his reaction to that like he's like Franco like she was
Bookstores and Political Humor
01:22:50
Speaker
she dated generally some of Franco the fascist dictator and Meg Ryan's like you're overreacting and No. What does it say about Birdie's politics? Do we think that Birdie was a Nazi? Clearly. Yes. I mean, she must have been. She must have been. Any other rants? Three more pages of notes.
01:23:14
Speaker
um Oh no, this is all caps. He still doesn't tell her, yeah. There's a whole bit. Yeah, he goes, so you're talking about that sweet scene where he brings her flowers and she's been sick and he goes there, sits on her bed against her will. Yeah, i should well no, because they they have a moment. Strange man comes into your apartment and comes and sits on your bed while you're in it. And they have a moment. Okay, he still doesn't tell her at this point. What a great opportunity for him to tell her and he doesn't tell her.
01:23:46
Speaker
Well, she's sick. His throat hurts. I don't have any water.
01:23:59
Speaker
You know, and i just that line at the end um where she he he shows up and it's um ah somewhere, the cover of Somewhere Over the Rainbow, and you just hear Tom Hanks going, Brinkley! Brinkley!
01:24:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And then she sees him. They have, because they kind of have a relationship. They become friends. Yes. They hang out together and they talk about things and like, yep. There's another start quote I have where she says, you know, cause he, the whole thing he's telling her, it's not, bit it's not personal. It's business. It's not personal. It's business.
01:24:32
Speaker
which is such bullshit. And she does very slightly call them out. She says it was personal to me. It was personal to a lot of people. Of course it is. It's your life. It's your business. Yeah, but sure. But in this case, your business is your life. It's her mom's store. It's her family is tied up in that. And they make that so emotional for her. And the fact that they still follow through on both him getting her out of business and then falling in love. And then falling in love is just so hard for me to swallow. What I really would love, what I love would love is if we could have a remake of this, if we could do a mini series, like a limited series, you know, like how they did with like one day and all of that, but like- I think it needs to be longer. It's already two hours long. But no, no, we can go into the depth of sort of Joe Fox sort of turning his life around and learning that capitalism is bad. And then maybe they started bookstore together or they run like an online business or they start a zine. I don't know. Start a zine.
01:25:42
Speaker
I mean, yeah, i mean that's kind of like the first time I watched this movie, i that's what I expected to happen. like I thought that that she was going to like work for him and turn like the store around and make it like um a smaller, more welcoming place or something.
01:25:58
Speaker
or that they were going to coexist. Because here's the thing, they do it coexist. They do coexist. There are many. There's women and Women and Children First is a children's and women's bookstore that has been in Chicago for 60 years or something. And the Barnes and Nobles didn't put it out of business in the 80s or 90s or whatever. And there's many of small bookstores like that that managed to survive both that and now Amazon, which Barnes and Noble barely survived Amazon.
01:26:23
Speaker
yeah And to a certain degree, Amazon coming putting Barnes and Noble's out of business helped smaller bookstores because yeah they actually can compete against Amazon where Barnes and Noble couldn't, you know? Because specialization and ah locality can can are the things that Amazon doesn't have.
01:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, and it's just nice to go to like ah and a little bookstore and absolutely yeah peruse the racks and like find out what someone else's like recommendation is and like shout out. hold thumb Shout out ah women and children first in Chicago. Shout out the last chapter, a romance yeah bookstore in Chicago, chapter ripped bodice. There's the ripped bodice is in New York.
01:27:07
Speaker
Right. And LA, yeah, they have two locations. And also I went to a lovely bookstore last week called the Hickory Stick Bookstore, which is in Washington Depot, Connecticut. It is and an adorman adorable, charming little bookstore. Highly recommend. Yeah. And and there's lots of all over the world. all Your town probably has a small bookstore that you should be looking at instead of at Fox Books. Yes.
01:27:35
Speaker
Mine doesn't. My closest one is Hickory Stick. We're saying how far is Hickory Stick from here? 25 minutes. Okay. See, that's not bad. It's not bad. It would take me 25 minutes to get to the last chapter or women and children or first from my house. That's very true. Very true. So 25 minutes. There we go. One of those would be walking, but still 25 minutes. Boy, oh boy. All right. He doesn't get the metaphor for both sides now.
01:28:03
Speaker
I mean, he says he doesn't he, he's fucking with her. Because yeah this is an example of how he uses the information he got from the emails. He said he doesn't like Joni Mitchell. And then He says he doesn't understand the metaphor of both sides now. A very famous, fairly transparent song about seeing things differently as you get older and experience both both heartbreak and loss and grief in your life. Things that he probably has never experienced because he's a rich billionaire piece of shit.
01:28:38
Speaker
It says he doesn't understand. He's like, they what? I don't understand. Both sides now. What? theyve they client The What's the news? What the both sides now? The ice cream? I don't understand. it like ah And then she finds out he doesn't tell, still doesn't tell her. And she finds out because he kind of, because he asks her out and is like, I like
You've Got Mail: Plot Twists and Casting
01:29:00
Speaker
you. And she's like, I like you too, but I like NY152. And I have to figure out if there's something there. And he's like, oh, interesting. And then he kind of like calls his dog and lets it slip that it's him in a kind of yeah reveal. And she says,
01:29:18
Speaker
I wanted it to be you. I wanted it to be you so bad. Why? What the fuck do you mean you wanted it to be him? Because they've fallen in love, Katie. They've fallen in love. This movie is an excellent example of let's just, you know, sensory overload onto people.
01:29:44
Speaker
with a great soundtrack. It looks pretty. It's about rich people. There's funny jokes in there. So that by the time we get to like the like practicality of this romance, everybody's blacked out. Nobody remembers. Nobody remembers anything about how this shouldn't work. And you just root for the couple no matter what. Here's the thing. Tom Hanks.
01:30:07
Speaker
sells this more than anybody else could have. Nobody else would have been able to pull this part off and make it charming and make you want them to be together. I mean, I didn't want them to be together at the end of this movie because I was angry. But I understand. But you also wanted them to be together. That most people, it's a rom-com. It's what you do. I understand that most people are going to feel that no matter what.
01:30:35
Speaker
Can you imagine casting somebody else in this? Who else could it have been? like i mean In the 90s? No clue. yeah like No clue. The only person that I think might have potentially maybe been able to do it is, um oh frick, what's his name? From Friends. Matthew Perry? Matthew Perry.
01:31:04
Speaker
I don't know. i think I think he's a lot less likable than Tom Hanks. like he's he's so i mean like He had some rom-coms, which we'll probably get to eventually. But like yeah he's got that his persona is so much more detached and sarcastic. And like he doesn't have that warmth. That's true. You have to cast America's Sweetheart.
01:31:23
Speaker
Yeah, you got to cast like a cardigan guy. like You have to but have somebody who's non-threatening, who's soft angles. like Yeah, who literally ends up in several years playing Mr. Rogers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He literally plays Mr. Rogers. I would like the people of the podcast listening public to know that I have been smiling and laughing throughout this, and I'm not actually mad. I'm not mad at you, Emma, and I'm not mad at you, dear listener.
01:31:53
Speaker
Yep. I'm only a little mad at the movie. Yep. It's still fun to watch and I enjoyed it. Oh, good. I'm so glad. And on that note, what are we watching next week, Katie? Oh, fuck. I don't know.
01:32:09
Speaker
Hold on.
01:32:15
Speaker
Wait, wait, are we still in November? We're still in November, right? Yes. Oh, sorry. I just received a text from Charlie that says, I have a call in 13 minutes, so I need your witch's cackle to be lowered. Oh, dear.
01:32:31
Speaker
I'm going to keep cackling. Let's see. What shall we do? um Let's do something. Oh, what was that? God damn it. I thought that I had one.
01:32:49
Speaker
Um, we're going to cut all this out. the li to play Um, what the fuck? Yes. Okay. Here it
Introduction to 'Dan in Real Life'
01:33:02
Speaker
is. Um, this is a Thanksgiving rom-com. I love a Thanksgiving rom-com. Yeah. It's called Dan in real life. Oh, you know, I've always wanted to see this and I've never seen it.
01:33:16
Speaker
I saw it in theaters and I remember liking it, but that's all I remember about it. It's ah Steve Carell. All right, all right, all right. Thank you for listening to Go Get Your Girl. If you like us, tell your friends and please rate interview us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It helps out a lot and we would really appreciate it. Thanks to Andrew Milliken and Nick Spoboda for our theme music and Elena Henderson for our artwork.
01:33:47
Speaker
You can follow me on social media at Emily and pizza and me at Katie of the lake. Until next time, we're just two girls standing in front of the internet asking it to love us. Good night. Good night.