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00:00:01
When The Bleachers Collapse
94 Plays1 year ago
The "Pieces" talk about income and wealth inequality. Lance is as liberal as ever and Matt can't resist sprinkling in unecessarry interruptions and jokes. It's a classic POS Podcast.
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Transcript
High School Basketball Metaphor: The Divide in America
00:00:00
Speaker
Imagine a high school basketball gym full of fans. On one side of the gym there are the haves and on the other side the have-nots. The basketball teams playing on the court represent American interests.
00:00:14
Speaker
The haves team plays for interests like deregulation and lowering corporate taxes. The have-nots are often playing for basic rights like affordable health care. But sometimes they're confused about what their team is playing for.
00:00:28
Speaker
The referees represent our political system and the security guards standing near the entrance to the gym are there to keep the peace. The scoreboard shows the share of wealth each team has.
00:00:40
Speaker
The first thing you'll notice in this gym is the bleachers on the have-not side are packed. Our nation's middle class and poor greatly outnumber the wealthy. 90% of our population is jammed into the have-nots bleachers.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's so packed that people are having trouble finding a seat. And they're often hostile towards each other, even though they have common interests. But on the other side, the Havs bleachers are way less crowded.
00:01:08
Speaker
Only 10% of our nation's population is sitting there. The Havs have plenty of space to set up their fancy cushioned seats and casually enjoy posh snacks.
00:01:19
Speaker
People on the Havs side have loud and powerful megaphones and they cheer for their team or get the attention of the referees. When a game is played between the haves and have-nots, you quickly realize the game is rigged.
00:01:34
Speaker
The haves are really confident because they've paid off the referees and incentivized security guards to keep their bleachers safe. Referees seem to let the haves team get away with hard fouls. Hits to the face, tripping, holding are all acceptable for the haves team.
00:01:50
Speaker
The have-nots get called for everything though. No matter how trivial the foul, they're quick to get teed up and some even get ejected. Sometimes the have-nots will go on a little run, but the Havs fans will scream at the referees through their megaphones and get the game back under control.
00:02:10
Speaker
In a recent 2025 game, the Havs played the have-nots and the final score was a total blowout. Havs 70, have-nots 30. havenots thirty The next big game will be played in 2035, and the prediction is even worse.
00:02:26
Speaker
Haves 80, have-nots 20. Another massive blowout. In one decade, economists predict the top 10% of households will hold 80% of our country's wealth.
00:02:38
Speaker
What a lopsided game. How many more games will be played in America before the bleachers collapse for the Have-Nots fans and they storm the courts and run up into the Havs bleachers and beat some ass?
00:03:06
Speaker
don't get up dead as you don be dead as I'm going to get up in that ass. That's my intro for everything is following up on the song I created, right? Oh, doubling down on the talent.
00:03:22
Speaker
Got to double down. Those songs, du are the numbers the numbers are popping. You told me a little bit, huh? Oh, yeah. Big time. You think it's format? You think it's the name? You think it's your songs? What do you think it is?
Show Direction: Intellectual vs Casual Tone
00:03:34
Speaker
I think it's you, dude, and just all the rich, interesting things that come out of your mouth. Perspective, right? Yeah. Real perspective, knowledge and personal experience coming together to create a special thing that only I get to experience face to face, but you know they get it through their headphones, which is nice for them. You that, right? It was a matter of time.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah. I will say, like since you want to pussify the show and keep it all intellectual, and pseudo-intellectual. I don't get to talk about sports as much I'd like to. and I know you can just edit it out, so I'm just going to drop in sports things so that you can not edit it out. If you did, it'd take you like two weeks.
00:04:17
Speaker
So fuck you, Lance. All right. Jokic had 19 assists last night. Incoming quality go. I think people like that. You do want it to be more intellectual, huh? That's what that's what it gets you off a little more than just this this the bar talk.
00:04:33
Speaker
ah Yeah, it gets me off in terms of just thinking, and I think it makes for a better conversation. But no, do we have to... pretend to be intellectual. I think were the whole basis of the show is, dude, we don't know what we're talking about. Most people don't.
00:04:47
Speaker
Still okay to have an opinion. Still okay to do some research here and there and formulate an idea about something. So I think we're good, dude. I think it's good. Yeah. the Well, I got two questions, dude, on the scale of... Let's be sort of self-reflective. ah On a scale of one to 10, have you achieved what the the level of what we're out set out yet? You think we're there? Have we peaked?
00:05:11
Speaker
sort of that enlightened conversation about hard hitting topics with a little humor. You think out of one to 10, we're at like a nine? I don't know where we're at. I think we're better.
00:05:23
Speaker
i like the idea that there's a structured conversation. I try to push away from that each and every episode, but with the structure, I'm fucking shackled, bro. Yeah. You got to stay on point, which is, I think, beneficial for you. But, dude, I like it.
00:05:38
Speaker
I also like to frame the ideas at the outset and and make a little silly thing, a bombastic point of view so we can have a conversation. So that's fun. not put it all on me. You get out there sometimes.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yes. I wonder, you said we don't know what talking about. I kind of think, I feel like i just starting to know stuff simply by age. Like, I feel like I can have an enlightened conversation just because I'm so old that, but like, I probably experienced something one way or another, had a conversation from somebody else who's enlightened with all these years on earth that someone who's like 22 just, they couldn't access it. There's no possible way they could be as smart as us.
00:06:16
Speaker
All right. I hear you. that's a good point. I think it's just fun to express ourselves, Matt. Right. It's just fun to express ourselves. Where are we going today?
Progressive Views on U.S. Governance
00:06:27
Speaker
How about income inequality? How about wealth? Wealth inequality. hell yeah. This is going to be dirtier than sex dolls.
00:06:37
Speaker
So lot of people idolize the U.S. I have an idealistic viewpoint about how the the United States should function and how the government should represent the people overall. I'm not going to lie there.
00:06:50
Speaker
I like the idea of a progressive tax and ah rich people giving back to folks that are less fortunate in a bigger way than we currently are. and And I also like the idea that they can hit home runs and have extremely successful businesses. But when we get to the point of hoarding billions, hundreds and hundreds of millions, I don't see a justifiable reason for that.
00:07:11
Speaker
Unless your goal is to you know fracture society over the long term and create an unbalanced version of dystopia and social unrest.
00:07:22
Speaker
That could be problematic. Now, here's here's some thought about it, and we can go from here. Something called the Gini coefficient essentially measures income inequality.
00:07:33
Speaker
I don't know if there's one for wealth inequality, but in the United States, it's at 0.41. And apparently, if you get to 0.5 or above 0.5. Armageddon. um my god but you get You start to get the the signs of social unrest and resentment and other things that would get the bleachers to collapse and get people to get in the streets and do some crazy shit.
00:07:54
Speaker
So we're at 0.41. Interestingly, Costa Rica is at 0.46%. But it's not a foolproof type of statistic and other other dynamics that would lead to chaos.
00:08:05
Speaker
And when the country's wealth isn't spread around in a way that society as a whole is satisfied with, you get, well, you get the Roman Empire, you get the French Revolution, you get all kinds of potential chaos. Civil unrest.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yes, civil unrest. So I'm not sounding an alarm saying we're getting there. I'm just saying if you look at wealth inequality specifically, even income inequality, there's something said about what's happening. And if it keeps going on, i mean, come on.
00:08:33
Speaker
And you could equate that if you look at a basketball game, sort of touches inequality on who gets to take the shots. yeah And if you look at... just kidding, bro. There you go. Not going to be that obvious. ah When you say... when you say I don't know what income equality is. So like, is that, is that um like, what's the other demographic that has to come along with it to express it?
00:08:55
Speaker
So like ah when you say income equality, I immediately think race. And I think it's a complaint on like a certain type or group of people that don't have access to like capital to make, or don't have access to education or whatever it is where they can't make money.
00:09:10
Speaker
Is that what we're talking about? Or like, what does that, that coefficient number mean? We're not talking about race specifically. Or gender. Yeah. Yeah. So just imagine, like, let's just use Walmart as a great example.
00:09:24
Speaker
Okay. So Walmart came in and the manager of the store makes a pretty good living. I think they pay them over 200 grand now, but they work their fucking ass off. and What but a nightmare job. That's 24-7, like...
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah. yeah We're talking about the top level manager. Some of them make you know up to $400,000, depending on the store. Anyway, so so they're doing well, but they're working hard and they have managers below them.
00:09:48
Speaker
And then money is funneled into the corporate structure for Walmart, shareholders, C-suite people, et cetera. They're doing very, very well. Very, very well. Now, the base level employees, how are they doing?
Economic Inequality in Corporate America
00:10:01
Speaker
Now, here's this extremely successful company and these people work there and they're making a pretty much terrible poverty level wage. That is a way for me to express income inequality.
00:10:11
Speaker
Here are these people contributing to this thing that's doing doing well and they can barely survive. Is that a fair scenario? And not putting it all just on Walmart, but as a society, is that what we want to see?
00:10:25
Speaker
Well, I'm going to say in my experience at Walmart, there's plenty of employees there that that probably deserve less than what they're making because they are mailing it in my friend, not the hardest working or most enlightened educated bunch all the time.
00:10:38
Speaker
But what comes first, right? That apathetic, fuck this job attitude or the pay? I'm not sure. But yeah, so but what's your solution? And then does it just immediately go, all right, all those people get bumped up to some meaningful salary that that you can make a nice American life with and then we're all paying a shitload of money? Or is it that simple?
00:11:01
Speaker
You are an economics guy, right? um like and Or or you're I think in income equality, in your socialistic view, you would be like $400,000, drop that guy to $300,000. He still makes a lot of money and then bump these $18 an hour people up to $35 an hour. Everybody wins.
00:11:18
Speaker
Is that right? no Not necessarily. I mean, I don't know how you jump in front of the marketplace like that or the the private marketplace, but she would you would as a society say, well, how do we what do we want to look like?
00:11:34
Speaker
And what do we value? And I think there's a good argument to say we need ah a more of a progressive tax system where wealthy people pay out a higher share And there is also an argument to be made about wealth tax.
00:11:49
Speaker
So if you're socking away hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars, or I don't know what the threshold is, but you've benefited from a society that has great infrastructure, you know has a culture of business, whatever, you've benefited from that. you know There's a point where you accumulating more money is a detriment to the overall economy.
00:12:11
Speaker
And so there's there's that argument. And I think you could redistribute. Now, how do you redistribute? Oh, that's a four-letter word in the US for a lot of people, right? Absolutely. But I think read this we do it all the time.
00:12:23
Speaker
We do it all the time. Wealth redistribution. It's a challenge if you if you start saying that in certain circles. Yeah, we do it all the time, but we often redistribute back to people who already have resources.
00:12:35
Speaker
I think it'd be better if we used money to ensure that at least the bulk of our society, and we're not talking about the snaggletooth slob at Walmart who has no motivation. i'm just talking the bulk of society can sustain a good life and contribute to the economy in in a meaningful way.
00:12:54
Speaker
think that's okay. I think that's the way to look at it. And I think smart people like Warren Buffett and others agree. Yeah, I guess, I mean, that's, You're right. It does get redistributed. And a lot of entrepreneurs have have done a lot to put their money back.
00:13:11
Speaker
they're reinvesting in other companies and and that kind of stuff. Like that's their obligation. Is that their obligation? It should be forced on them. If you're talking about people just hoarding money, there are a lot of people in like the private setting that just do it by reinvesting money, either in startups or whatever, or, you know, however, however the market works and you, but you think the system's kind of broken for some people.
00:13:36
Speaker
I think to expect that everybody can participate in the venture capital world and be a tech bro and and and benefit from one of those jobs is silly. Like society had needs a whole range of jobs to function.
00:13:48
Speaker
And so my question would be, do you want your bus driver, your teacher to really be on the edge of, I'm not gonna say survival because America is super privileged and we compare to other countries, but do you want them to be on the edge the fringe of middle class and kind of struggling to get by.
00:14:07
Speaker
And if it's okay, if we want to continue to funnel money money to the top, which it seems like we do, then I would just encourage everybody to double down on stocks. Just funnel money into stocks. If you don't if you're poor, you know you're going to have to figure that out.
00:14:20
Speaker
But you probably won't, which means we'll just continue to get a bigger gap between people with money and people without. But is that what you want? You want your bus
Valuing Essential Jobs and Improving Services
00:14:29
Speaker
driver to be struggling, Matt? You want him to be on fucking eating TV dinners, dude, and like living in a studio apartment in the ghetto? Yeah.
00:14:37
Speaker
I think the, well, the other people would immediately go, well, that's that's his decision. It's his choice. he couldve He could have done something else with himself like we all could have, right?
00:14:48
Speaker
Okay. I don't personally have a vendetta against bus drivers where I want them to struggle. I think it's, i think it's um this is the this is the problem. like There's a place for that job.
00:15:03
Speaker
It's like the question is like, is that where you want people to end up? Or is that a, you know, bus driver could be a good job for someone who's like the stepping stone to something else and they're whatever. And like, how do you look at it?
00:15:15
Speaker
So do you do you make that bus driver job the end job where somebody makes a good living and and that's what they do? Or you go, no, that's just, that's a job that they should use while they're going to night school or, I mean. So, but it's public infrastructure. It's public infrastructure. So you It's a necessary job for society to function.
00:15:33
Speaker
Well, we staff jobs like that and with that mindset all the time. But if you value that, we could use other examples, but if you value that public infrastructure, you do need, I think philosophically, you need a ah livable wage and somebody to do that profession without...
00:15:52
Speaker
long-standing insecurity throughout their life. Like can't afford lots of things, right? I just, I don't think that's a fair and just way. How we, so take the bus driver as the example, what's the, like, what what do we do? Like, do you just go, it's simple, just paying more money.
00:16:09
Speaker
Well, yeah, exactly. So you're looking at the economy as a whole, you're looking at what livable wages are versus inflation, and you are adjusting them. And that comes with, in that particular case, more taxes. That's what I was going to say. So then, yeah, tax is another four letter word for a lot of people. Right. I mean, obviously, philosophical differences between trickle down economics and and other approaches, supply side economics, as they say, we need people to create jobs. We need people to innovate. All I'm saying is I don't think what's at stake for you is like five hundred or fifty billion versus thirty two billion.
00:16:45
Speaker
I don't think you have a disincentive. Right. You hear so much. People say that, too. They just go, yeah, well, I don't like I don't need any more money. hmm. Yeah. Where is that line? It's for me, it's a lot less.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah. But right. But that the scary thing in the US is always about freedom and free markets and any other thing. ah The comment of wealth redistribution or the comment of like this person entitlement is a hot button topic.
00:17:14
Speaker
And like. so you So people would be worried to say this bus driver is entitled to any more money than what the market the market demands. It's like, all right, if you lowered it too much, nobody would be a bus driver. If you raised it too much, then you'd have like real tax implications and other and other things. So it's kind of hard to find that balance.
00:17:34
Speaker
Like that's ah that's a very interesting that's a really hard one to solve, the bus driver guy, because it's like an infrastructure job. It's like, that's it. But ah but yeah, that's ah that's a hard one right there.
00:17:46
Speaker
it's It's more of a value statement because you can go back to this. I call it like the personal responsibility myth. And you can start to go, well well, these people can work their way up.
00:17:57
Speaker
They can go to college. They can work their way up. And then we forget that society functions in such a way that we fundamentally need people to do these types of jobs. And if we modify society or change it and we you know replace it with AI or whatever, that's a different conversation. But like you typically need somebody to clean your hotel room. You need people to do lots of different things that help society function the way it does.
00:18:23
Speaker
And it's okay to set to value those jobs a little bit more is what I'm saying. It's like you're not like a liberal Marxist to say, gosh, it'd be good if the person doing dishes in a restaurant or washing dishes in a restaurant makes a livable wage.
00:18:40
Speaker
Wouldn't that be cool? Do I know how to get there like from a marketplace perspective and help like businesses be able to pay the pay that meaningfully? That's too complex because there's so many dynamics there. But I do know that you could redistribute money through services that, through taxes and things that everybody needs like healthcare, childcare.
00:19:03
Speaker
That's a great way to help lower income people. I mean, I would be in favor of that. Like it's not necessarily raise the income, but raise services that make their income not as fucked.
00:19:16
Speaker
All right, like, oh, okay, I gotta go be a bus driver and I gotta pay child support and that makes it impossible, right? So like. Yeah. I would hope that the super wealthy would not be so attached to accumulating, but where's the line again? You can't blame people for that. It's just a complex situation. I just know we're on a path for wealth inequality to continue to get worse, and I think income inequality as well, which I think they're two sides of the same coin, we're gonna fucked.
00:19:45
Speaker
i You mentioned Costa Rica. i think it's worse here, income inequality. There's like two different lives here. it's It's pretty crazy. Because just immediately go to like being outside of the country, the US s for so long, and you mentioned people at Walmart and their shitty wage.
00:20:04
Speaker
And I'm like, what are you fucking talking about? They're making 18 bucks an hour. Like that's like a dream salary for anyone and anywhere else in the world. And, but I realized the cost of living and stuff like that. But I, but I see, you know, that person here, the checkout person at Walmart is probably making six or 700 bucks a month.
00:20:21
Speaker
We have Walmart, there's one right down the street and they, it's It's just the lives are so different. Like they're on public transit, they're bringing their own lunch, they're living with their whole extended family in a tiny house.
00:20:33
Speaker
Like the way they do it is just way different. In the US you get into 18 an hour doesn't work because I need my car and I need my own place and I need, you know, and then you have all the other shit that comes along with it the insurances and all this crap and childcare because nobody lives close to their mom or grandma who can take care of their kid. And like, so the system,
00:20:54
Speaker
The system in the US can be a little harder for for that, which is I think what you mentioned with like the daycare and stuff. It's like you can earn way more money there and there's like no excuse not to work. You can just work your way out of situations in the US. If you have to work at Walmart and work at McDonald's at night, you could probably pull together like a decent amount of money.
00:21:12
Speaker
But then all the other things that go with it, some cities have shitty public transit, some shitties have... that That makes it harder. It's symbol of our values collectively when we look at the poorest people in our society and and we ask ourselves, is that okay? we if we look and If we go, why are they such losers?
00:21:31
Speaker
yeah Yeah, exactly. They're lazy. No, but we look at them and go, is that what we want? Yes, you're right. In Costa Rica, there are people who are living with their extended family and working jobs that pay way, way less.
00:21:47
Speaker
and they're figuring it out. We could do that here. Truly, a studio apartment in Denver is like $1,400. But we could say, oh, you just go live with your parents or go live with your family. do you know If that's what we we want is this bifurcated society where people are all like taking scraps and trying to get by, and then people are hoarding and able to do whatever they want. I believe like the top 10% of our country right now is is fueling like 50%, maybe even more of our consumer economy as the lower income folks struggle with inflation.
00:22:21
Speaker
that Is that a disparity wanna look at and we're okay with? I just know that, I think it's a hard sell up there, especially in the current political climate where things have kind of
Political Climate and Wealth Redistribution Conversations
00:22:32
Speaker
pushed right. Like some of those words,
00:22:34
Speaker
Which should just be like normal words immediately. Like you said, it doesn't mean you're Marxist left wing person, but that's that's how you'd be framed for even mentioning the word redistribution, wealth redistribution.
00:22:46
Speaker
I mean, i think enough that you have I think it's better to look at like, how do you improve things around why people are in these situations? Like, okay, maybe maybe we all acknowledge the the end the end for for most people probably shouldn't or isn't gonna be the cashier at Walmart.
00:23:03
Speaker
And so maybe if they made a little more money to make their lives easier, it's like, all right, what got them there and how do they get out of that? so So that job is not looked at as a ah negative thing. It's like, all right, it's okay. Everyone has to do this sometime in their life.
00:23:15
Speaker
You and I fucking were barbecue caterers or something. It's not like, and we had we had both graduated from college. Like, yeah. You know, sometimes you get you work those jobs and it's OK in the US because you can make a little money. But like we we both had the mentality that wasn't where we're going end up.
00:23:30
Speaker
Sure. And so there's like other things, kind of social things happening for people where they they don't know that that's they don't have to. they They should they can look for something else. But these other the infrastructure, like hold them back a little bit.
00:23:44
Speaker
I think, right? Like the stuff you mentioned, like daycare and all that stuff. It's like, you probably need to look at that kind of stuff. Still social, social programs, probably how people would look at them, but it's like, but if it's better for society, then it's better for society.
00:23:59
Speaker
like If they if to kind of rise the tide through these social programs, so then those people have more money, generating more tax revenue, generating more home buying, and they're fueling the economy that way too, instead of just putting the money up top and letting them make the decisions on how they're going to invest it and where to put it.
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I see what you're saying, but I think to suggest that the whole of society, given what um a complex economy needs in terms of services and and jobs and products, the whole of society can work their way through the education system and get one of those good jobs, one of those jobs that allows you to like live in a nice place and have a car.
00:24:41
Speaker
To suggest that everyone can do that is is impossible. Because you still, if you don't value the person that cleans the house or cleans the hotel room, if you don't value them enough to to allow them to make a living, you're basically saying a huge portion of society is going to constantly down and out.
00:25:01
Speaker
And if you're like, well, senorita, fucking go to night school, go get a second job. it just tends to sound cruel, you know, tends to sound little cruel.
00:25:16
Speaker
So who, who puts the bill on that? Well, I think overall, like the, the country itself has a ah gross domestic product that has, a huge amount of value in And I think there are, in a lot of ways, winners and losers in a capitalistic economy. It's a bit winner take all, but you basically have a good progressive tax. You make more, you pay more on a percentage basis.
00:25:41
Speaker
We have that right now, right? Not to the extent that would rebuild, help rebuild the middle class. I think it needs to be pushed a little higher, but not necessarily on income. We're talking about wealth. I think this is the this is probably where the argument really gets crazy. So people are allowed to just continue to accumulate wealth and some things aren't taxed like income. Income is actually taxed, I think, unfairly relative to other things like capital gains.
00:26:07
Speaker
And think there's an opportunity there with wealth. If you just look at how much super rich people's portfolios and their asset basis have grown over the last few decades. lot of them pay virtually no taxes because they know how protect it. that.
00:26:22
Speaker
And they know how to protect it. But yeah, um it just continues and continues as so many other people just struggle. Now, I think some people like that. I think that they philosophically they like the idea that they won.
00:26:38
Speaker
I'm getting that feeling a little bit with this Trump administration and Musk muskin some of the other billionaires he's surrounding himself with. You get that feeling. And then you're also starting to feel, even on the Republican side, a little bit of resentment.
00:26:51
Speaker
What do we want to represent as a country? Opportunity for all or... Winner take all. I got I mean, this is off topic, but I got to say one of my worst experiences now is watching Elon Musk speak.
00:27:04
Speaker
It's like painful. Just like, dude, you're a geek. You were always a geek. No offense to the geeks out there. yeah're He's a billionaire, like computer science guy just needs to shut up.
00:27:15
Speaker
Like, listen to him speak is just not when he's like being sort of scientific and analytical. But now, like the celebrities gotten to him. He's fucking wearing like sunglasses on stage and shit. It is like exactly you're not going to un-geek yourself, dude.
00:27:28
Speaker
We all have our our specialties in life. You're not funny. You're not like a des desire. You know, you're not like this desirable guy. I mean, maybe you are because you have a hundred billion dollars, but stop acting like it.
00:27:39
Speaker
Just shut the fuck up. if If you are actually doing something good was by by identifying waste in our government system, that's good. Just it and shut up. Yeah, don't say anything about it. But anyways, yeah, like, okay, that's it. But he's an interesting guy as far as and what we're talking about.
00:27:55
Speaker
Because I got to say, like, when I talk about any shit, i if I really went hard about, okay, these billionaires are avoiding taxes and shit, well, I would just be a hypocrite because we all...
00:28:07
Speaker
are looking for ways to to avoid these these fucking taxes because why would you pay it if you don't have to? Because that that five grand that I try to fight to get back on my refund, i don't I don't look at it as like, oh, this five grand could could help so a person get out of their their shitty low-paying job through a social program or better infrastructure. I just look at it as 5,000 bucks that I need right now for my family.
00:28:33
Speaker
And like, yeah, so i I don't know, like if I let's just say slabs blew up and I was a billionaire, would I be like, all right, now I don't want to protect that money because whatever, i I should just give up a half a billion dollars because I don't need it.
00:28:49
Speaker
That's what we're asking them to do, right? Or you would ask them to do. um Not necessarily. I think, no. Again, it's a complex topic in terms of how you- We clear cut the world, dude. I would be a billionaire.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah, clear cut ah But you see what I'm saying? It's like, all right, we all get into that. Oh, those guys are fucking protecting their money while we're all like calling our accountant and be like, oh, did you you make sure you deducted the mortgage interest?
00:29:17
Speaker
you know We're all doing the same thing in a way. Yeah, but what what's hit our culture, though, dude, is if you look at where shortages like police officers, teachers, we've said to ourselves now as a culture, the only meaningful pursuit, the only noble pursuit these
Societal Values in Times of Crisis
00:29:35
Speaker
days is to fucking start a company and aspire to be a billionaire.
00:29:41
Speaker
And we worship these fucking guys. We used to have a high esteem for people that were in the military and just even enlisted, not officers. We had high respect for police officers, teachers, fucking firefighters, public servants. And I've got some rants on that coming up later.
00:29:59
Speaker
But like if you... Teaser. Yeah, teaser, baby. But like, dude, do we value those? or Or is it now we're just like, yeah, let's let's just... uned you Throw our uneducated people into that those things.
00:30:11
Speaker
whatever Yeah, or just you know watch wages, um which they have, right? Like in many teachers, like they can qualify for fucking food stamps. Is that what you want? That's how you value society. That's how we want to structure it. And then we want all this school choice so that super rich people can go to the ultra-private.
00:30:30
Speaker
school and not invest in public school. So it's a, there's no one solution. I just think we're seeing it ah divergence here where more and more of what society needs isn't valued. There was a moment there during the pandemic where people were like, wow, what heroes? Oh, those EMTs are such heroes.
00:30:50
Speaker
Those first responders, they're amazing. Or after 9-11. And then yet when you see the fight over taxes for many of these things, uh we don't value that we value the venture capital showering affection on the now is just some dumb asses three post facebook posts emt good job and then back to their sorry lives they're paid painfully low like an emt for the trauma that they witnessed and the things that they have to come in contact So I don't know the exact answer or the set of jobs that we're valuing or devaluing, but it does feel overall we've begun to worship more billionaires, I guess. Like this is the structure of our society.
00:31:32
Speaker
i think I wonder if that'll come back as as some of the other jobs aren't available because of just efficiencies, not only of AI, but like now a lot of people know that they can staff. Like back office accounting, for example, it's easier just to staff it overseas. It's all the same shit. And like, so yeah the Americans are pricing themselves out of being relevant because they're really not doing that much like a bookkeeper. So like, and so these other jobs might come back and it's like, all right, the only thing I can do is be a policeman or a fireman or EMT or a teacher.
00:32:03
Speaker
Those are, those are things that might be untouchable by AI and outsourcing. And so maybe, maybe some of that will come back. Well, but it's not even like, oh, it's the only only thing I can do. It's like those are those used to be, I think.
00:32:17
Speaker
I'm just saying that's where it has to start, maybe. like yeah i get Yeah, that's a catalyst, right? Yeah. But she's just like, look at when did them like an enlisted military job become such a piece of shit job from a pay perspective?
00:32:29
Speaker
It just seems so stupid to me. And now you've got this just the symbolism of Elon Musk going and cutting these government jobs, basically the labor part of government spending.
00:32:41
Speaker
It's pretty hilarious. Just the symbolism alone. It's interesting, like they've been in power for a few weeks. And it's like, yeah, are you that ah you add up to speed where you can just simply make these like with these broad sweeps and terminating departments and jobs? like You know enough about it to make those decisions.
00:33:00
Speaker
Doesn't seem like in a few weeks you would know that. um Some of the stuff they're broadcasting, him and Trump, is that there's, like for the Social Security program example, they found million people that are over 130 years old that are receiving money or, you know, I don't know what the stat is with something like that.
00:33:15
Speaker
Like, oh, we ah we would all agree that kind of shit should go away if if that's true, right? But yeah I don't know. I mean, there's like down here, there's it's a little more social and social like socialistic, like universal health care or health care provided by the government, I would say not necessarily universal.
00:33:33
Speaker
Like there's people that are getting paid to like hold doors open and shit and they and they get scaled into a salary structure where they get like every year they get a little bonus. And by the end, their pensions are and people bitch about that all the time.
00:33:45
Speaker
these like these pensions, and but it's like, oh, it's a job. like People look his job creation too. I don't know what to think about that kind of shit. Like, ah like, you know, you go to the fucking USPS and the level of service and just shit that they can't do is like impressive.
00:34:01
Speaker
You're like, yes, this government department is not working. Like it's not competitive with anything. And you're like, okay, what do you do with that? And that that's the antithesis of of what you're saying. Those kind of things are what, what give people like cold feet to some of this crap.
00:34:16
Speaker
It's like, Well, sure. Government's ability to run organizations is in some cases not there. And then you you get the ah golden handcuffs mindset for some of these people. Like, um I'm just going to do the minimum.
00:34:32
Speaker
That's a culture thing, too, that could be fixed. But that yeah, that's got to be fixed for some of what you're talking about i think, a little bit But this idea, like, and here's the the personal responsibility argument, and I'm sure there's merit to it. I just um just haven't seen it.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's like, if you give people basic resources like universal health care, is all motivation dried up in Costa Rica? like Like no one will do anything because they know the health care is they care. Yeah. Like if you gave people and there was a lot of talk about this universal basic income, if you gave people a basic income, would they just stop there and just live on the joys of making 12,000 a year in their universal basic income and and all motivation dries up? A small percentage of people, yes.
00:35:14
Speaker
A very, very small percentage of people probably, but many many others might use it to go to school, use it to advance their lives. i was i would ah That would have been so great, dude, when you and I were young trying to do like a creative thing.
00:35:27
Speaker
It would have been awesome. and i But i don't I don't feel like I would have just fucking slept all day. i would have been like, all right, now I can really charge. i wouldn't I wouldn't have had to waste eight hours a day thinking about something that I didn't care about.
00:35:39
Speaker
Exactly. So... I just think we're – don't know what the shift will be, but we don't value labor as much as we used to, and I know there was some backlash here recently where labor was – getting out in front and making some things happen in different companies. and different companies But we value capital in such a sick, twisted, worshipping type way that I don't see any scenario. And I know we've come to this conclusion in several episodes.
00:36:09
Speaker
I don't see any scenario where we're not headed for like some Roman Empire collapse type bullshit, some French Revolution. People are fucking coming to the doors of the wealthy with pitchforks ready to fuck some people up.
00:36:20
Speaker
I wonder if if this sweeping immigration law and changes like that, what the what the effect will be as well. Seems impossible and idiotic to like if you get rid of a a huge part of the labor force.
00:36:34
Speaker
the But on the flip side, would would lazy white pussies actually start to work? Would they go outside and work? Would they do any of these things that like what illegal immigrants are providing?
00:36:45
Speaker
um I doubt it. So I don't think you can get rid of that workforce. But if you did, maybe you get back to sort of the mid century, like where you had whatever Italian immigrants or Irish people or bricklayers and all the shit that people used to do was jobs. Like what were middle middle class jobs back then?
00:37:01
Speaker
Right? Yeah. The policeman and all this, all this type of stuff, construction workers, farmers. like that we've lost all that and that's but that's kind of what you're saying because you can't you you now the the price of labor has been forced down so you probably it'd be hard to make a good living with a family at some of these jobs now maybe Right. We don't value it. And to suggest that why any white person is going to step up for the wages that are being paid to immigrants is hilarious. It's a big ha ha ha ha. Yeah, right.
00:37:34
Speaker
So do you say it's good to get rid of the illegal workforce? I think at this point, you've you kind of baked them into society the way it's structured. I think it's great to protect your borders, but you know this country, given its aging population, may need to consider... Nationalizing the legal ones or the people that aren't criminals, I think. Well, or just creating some paperwork for temporary, better temporary, what you call citizenship, so that we bring both low-skilled and high-skilled labor in.
00:38:04
Speaker
uh we agree on that i was just saying that the other night dude like yeah it's because i was talking to somebody who's actually an engineer for boston scientific from from costa rica and he was able to get a visa because he's this really educated dude and he worked with them here and i'm like i was saying it actually should be easy as easier as a mexican roofer to go the us as you because he's it's pretty important Because nobody's going to send that fair-skinned white boy up on the roof when it's 95 degrees in summer in Tulsa or some shit, and they're going to cry.
00:38:35
Speaker
Right. Javier will bang out 22 hours and be like, I'm going to go to my night shift now. fucking pussies. I know. there's no There's no supply of, and not just white people, just people that have lived here and absorbed the idealism of the American dream. There's no supply of workers of those types of people, whatever color they are, to go do roofing and farm work and a lot of stuff that immigrants are coming over the borders to do.
00:39:01
Speaker
So that's it's obvious. I don't know what we're arguing about in that sense. Now, maybe and We're going to replace many of those things with robots and AI, and that'll change the dynamic. Probably will at some point, but... Are we going to get back into sex workers again?
00:39:15
Speaker
Like last week, replacing them with robots? With dolls, yeah. But devaluing labor in such a way that we... This idea that people should have a livable wage is preposterous, and like they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. If society... If the country's winning...
00:39:34
Speaker
And we have been growing and we're not bringing everyone up. And um by bringing everyone up doesn't mean they have an iPhone. means they can pay rent and they can, you know, exist in society in a way that we all find acceptable.
00:39:47
Speaker
If they can't do that, dude, but this country fucking sucks. You think we're on this bad path because... The wealth distribution will be so fucked up. Like there's going to be a small percentage.
00:39:59
Speaker
We're already there, but a small percentage of people with who, who control all the money. And there, and there's going to be so many people living right around the poverty level that there'll be some sort of internal revolt eventually.
00:40:15
Speaker
I think you'll see civil unrest. I think you'll see just a complete distrust of all government institutions.
Inequality, Climate Change, and Potential Unrest
00:40:21
Speaker
And then when you, again, the symbolism of Elon Musk taking a hatchet to to government jobs is pretty hilarious, right? It's right on point to this particular conversation. but You're just going to see people um build up extreme resentment.
00:40:35
Speaker
And then if you look at climate change, we'll just throw up more complexity, right? As climate change hits some of these lower income states, by the way, Mississippi is one of the highest risk of all, very poor state.
00:40:46
Speaker
When you see that people can't move, there's no mobility. ah That's a sign of more and more people. Because of the ah obesity problems in Mississippi. I think it actually has the highest obesity rates anywhere in the country. It does too, yeah. But they can't move.
00:41:03
Speaker
That's the start of... what Okay, that's why that's the point where I always go, wait, what? Because I'm looking at as a foreigner now. why Why can't they? What do you mean? It's just like naive to go, well, they can fuck. I know that you just specifically said the old thing of just pull your bootstrap, pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
00:41:21
Speaker
You can figure a way out. Why is that not true? Or is it, it's true, but it's nearly impossible or like, you know what i mean? Like, okay. If I go, well, you could, even if you live in the hood, Mississippi, you don't know your parents, your dad's in jail.
00:41:35
Speaker
you could just go the education system, work hard and and just whatever, take on debt or get a scholarship and get ah get a decent paying job eventually. Everybody can do that regardless of race.
00:41:46
Speaker
I'm fine with that philosophy. I think everybody's fine with that. Is that still accessible? I think it's like, is that, is it accessible? Sure. It's accessible, but like this is our society still needs what we would call low income workers. We need those jobs to be done.
00:42:01
Speaker
I see. And so what I would ask is like, is say there's this, um, Latino person in Mississippi that inherited an old house that's in a floodplain from their, from their grandparents.
00:42:12
Speaker
okay It's the only asset they have. It's just been flooded and they work on the front desk of a hotel and make 18 bucks an hour, 17 bucks an hour. Like that person doesn't just abandon that asset that still probably is more, even though it's been flooded more than anything they could ever acquire.
00:42:31
Speaker
And that job to like, even if the house is going to flood 10 more times in the next 20 years to to shoot off to New York City and work their way up to NYU and become a fucking professor. they're not I mean, a broker. Yeah, that's going to happen.
00:42:47
Speaker
I just think a lot of people are are stuck in their working jobs that are that are tough. This sounds super, super liberal. I just don't see that that as a possibility for everybody in this society. but Okay. so But in that situation, that you want that person to be a career front desk person because it's and we respect that job and we treat them with respect the same as we would a Wall Street broker, professional athlete, Christian Braun, who's popping 17 a game now playing defense.
00:43:14
Speaker
hustling. We respect them like a Christian Braun on the nuggets because we need that person. We don't need, that person doesn't need to have upward mobility. We need a good front desk person. Well, they don't have to aspire for anything more. They they certainly could and and life would be better for them. But do would you want the hotel front desk person to be ah total mess and not be able to have a family and not be able to like survive you know or or designate every job as a gig work is gig work or temporary job?
00:43:44
Speaker
And kind of say, hey, this is not meant to last, dude. So I don't know why you're still here, 40-year-old Pakistani. I'm not Why are you still here doing Uber? What the fuck, dude? We told you this is temporary. You should be working to your us bro you're master's.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, you should be starting a company. it's it's It's hilarious to me, right? so So then we're left with, I don't know what percentage of people are working all these jobs that we need. but they don't make ah livable wages. So if you if you're okay with that, then let's keep doing what we're doing.
00:44:14
Speaker
Just have them all pile into an apartment with their extended family and and other immigrants and fuck them. and That's just the way it is, bro. That's way it yeah. Okay, that the front desk worker, they're working for Marriott and making $17 an hour. we we We're just going to assume that Marriott's got billions of fucking dollars and they could make that person's life a lot better without affecting their bottom line that much at all.
00:44:39
Speaker
Is that like a solution that works and that for that one? I think that could be part of it. And I know there's ah there's a lot of complexity and minimum wage stuff. I don't know if we're smart enough to get into that, but like, I think also having services or societal needs paid for, healthcare, childcare, community college,
00:45:00
Speaker
Things like that that allow people to advance themselves but also sustain themselves is is probably, i don't know, a less complex way to address it. You remember back when Obamacare was getting in, there was a thing about a public option?
00:45:13
Speaker
And I remember just going, fucking give the public option. Who cares? You don't have to use it. We still private health insurance. Just even, okay, the clinics aren't as great as these private hospitals. Like, who cares?
00:45:24
Speaker
Have a public option. Who fucking cares? Like, it means nothing. Just do it. I think there's some baseline stuff that we don't have to get into this. redistribution or okay, is it are we a socialistic left-wing society? No.
00:45:37
Speaker
It's just like, oh, no, we have, there's a government service that you can go to that's affordable. You want to go sit and wait in line? Fine. it's But it's there. and And you- Oh, it's called Medicaid. Yeah, but that's Medicaid. It's not free. You have to qual have to qualify for it and be poor enough to qualify for it.
00:45:54
Speaker
But that's what I'm getting at. Well, okay. Your daughter, it like she's she's fresh into the workforce right now. like Could she qualify for Medicaid, someone who's in their teens, early 20s, and doesn't make that much money?
00:46:06
Speaker
No, she's above because she's she makes. She's a above. twenty Well, because she works with kids. So I think she makes like 21 an hour. 21 an hour is too. Yeah.
00:46:16
Speaker
So like some of that stuff, it's like, all right, she should qualify for something like that.
Healthcare Accessibility Debate
00:46:20
Speaker
It's like, okay, you don't have to be starving the death to death to get to need that basic service, seems like.
00:46:29
Speaker
21 hour to for her to fit health insurance into that mix is probably a huge piece of her monthly, like what she can afford. Right. And rent is huge.
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah. And then it's like, you're just falling, falling behind. yeah Yeah, so I just think the question is, and we should all think about it, is like, how much distance do you want between your top 10% and your lowest 10%?
00:46:56
Speaker
Do you want it to be 50 million miles away in terms of wealth and income? Or do you want to shrink it to maybe like 5 million miles away?
00:47:06
Speaker
i don't yeah I don't know if you can look at it like that. I don't think it's, it can't, you can't, it's never going to be close. But it's like, how what's the most what's the system that produces the most amount of, I don't know what the word, comfortable and joyful lives? What's the most what's the system that produces the most of that?
00:47:27
Speaker
The quality like Denmark, Finland, Sweden, those countries. Well, the billionaires, he he has a right to his money. It's fine. And maybe you take more money. i'm just saying we still want people to be to be able to become billionaires. right We still want some free markets. on yeah Exactly. Of course. I'm just saying, can you can you provide some services that help your lowest 10%, your lowest 20% live in society with some dignity?
00:47:54
Speaker
With dignity. I look at it. Yeah, I look at it that way. Like, in like, okay, there's always going to be that wealth gap. But like, what's the most amount of people that can can have like a comfortable life? And that front desk person, like what's what's the way that that 17 or 18 goes the far an hour goes the farthest for them to be like, all right,
00:48:13
Speaker
i don't I'm not trying to be fucking Elon Musk, but i do i am a good front desk agent. It's my job and I'm going to stay there and do it well. And and this this system provides me the opportunity to do that without living a life of complete stress on the brink of disaster.
00:48:29
Speaker
That would be like the solution. i don't think that would cost the the system that much to do it that way. It seems like a no brainer. No, it wouldn't. I think we have this fantasy that the wealthy, all of their money is this productive capital.
00:48:44
Speaker
And that they're just constantly creating jobs. And they're not. They're sitting on it. They're sitting on it. They're earning dividends. They're earning um interest. And they're piling it up. It's not productive at at at some point.
00:48:57
Speaker
Sometimes it is. Broad strokes, Lance. Broad strokes. There's some good people out there. There are definitely some good people. think Shark Tank is ultimately the solution? It's like get five five billionaires together and just start investing in...
00:49:10
Speaker
and is that Do you think that's a good or bad thing? This is different. Like you said, but we can't so solve solve all solutions with investment banking, but like would you go, all right, those guys are actually, they're they're trying to make money for themselves, but they're actually doing a service to society.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah, dude, it's like a three-legged stool. You need innovation. You need business creation. By the way, that was my nickname in high school, bro. Three-legged stool. Because your balls hung as low as your Peter?
00:49:38
Speaker
Because I had the balls of an 80-year-old Gravity had already gotten it. kidding. Because your schlong hit the ground like your legs, like your feet. That wasn't it. Go ahead.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah, dude. But you need innovation, business creation. You need infrastructure, government infrastructure that allows that all to happen. And you need you need labor. And you need the labor force to be healthy.
00:49:59
Speaker
Which, by the way, think's speaking of the front desk worker, some people just aren't capable, man. They're dealing with so many like disabilities. They're not capable of moving beyond certain jobs.
00:50:10
Speaker
And we could have a society where it's like we take out the trash, dude. Let's just take out the fucking trash. That's like, don't know, let's just walk down through the city and murder homeless people.
00:50:21
Speaker
We used to, like, there were times where it's like if you came out of the womb... ah disabled they killed you yeah they killed you yeah we could do that fuck let's just do it because doesn't affect me bro uh we could have that hardcore winner take all thing which i think we've gravitated towards more maybe we're fine with that shit uh yeah i don't know if it's that hard but i do you'll get pushed back like everyone has their their destiny and like let them have it maybe not kill retards at birth but but uh People will be like, ah that lady, whatever. i think I think it's just the idea that like it's survival the fittest in the US and some people fail and some people succeed, but the game is there.
Corruption and Economic Navigation Advice
00:51:02
Speaker
like You get in a country like Costa Rica, and or and I'm sure this is nowhere near as bad as other countries, but the game is definitely rigged here. like There are certain families that have access to... like They'll get lice. That's one of my issues why I stopped the cannabis deal. there was a There's an old...
00:51:19
Speaker
real piece of shit guy who who was the president. He was the president of Costa Rica. I think he won a Nobel Peace Prize, but horrible dude. Has all these like sexual misconduct accusations. but his and he got Somehow he's in in with one of the... judge He appointed a judge, so he's basically untouchable.
00:51:37
Speaker
But he gets access to everything immediately. I don't i know there's corruption in the U.S., s but i I don't feel like it's as corrupt as some of the other places in the U.S. s Where you talk about, if you go, well there's income equality because the game's rigged.
00:51:49
Speaker
maybe a little bit but i i don't know if that's quite i guess i'll put this question to you do you think with income equality or sort of like access to to be able for up upward momentum do you think we've improved as a country in the last like 50 years and i wonder if i asked a uh mexican latino or a black person african-american like if i asked them that if they would go yeah there's been improvements they'd be like nope still like like No, I think there's been material improvement. I think there's been social acceptance that's improved greatly if you're of a different race.
00:52:25
Speaker
So the culture has advanced to be more open in general. it's like on a It's on a downside at the moment, but
00:52:35
Speaker
yeah yes, I think the overall opportunity has improved. I think it's the message, like letting people know that is bet is really important.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, opportunities improved. and And I think, though, what happens, though, is as the standard for lifestyle increases, if you continue to increase that standard and you show it and it's what people aspire to and then you're leaving out an ever-increasing number of people that kind of left out of that as a possibility or the jobs that they do aren't valued in that way, I think that's where you have a problem.
00:53:12
Speaker
So all ah all this suggestion is is to say to prevent the – bleachers to from collapsing is to allow the entirety of society to benefit along with our growth rate a little bit more, just a little bit more.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:29
Speaker
So to close, dude, and this time, like, let's close because sometimes I'll say to close and then it's like 10 more minutes. What we should do is you you go i you go. We're going to close. You go first, Matt. Okay. No, you go last.
00:53:41
Speaker
So here's what I'm going to tell my kids with respect to this. Again, I'll repeat. And I've said it before. They need to win the game of money. And that because we worship capital in this society, you have to invest.
00:53:54
Speaker
You have to invest. don't care what you do for a living. don't care how much you make. A portion of it should go to to what I think will continue to be successful. Your career, I'm not so sure. I don't have a lot of faith whether going have a great career anymore.
00:54:09
Speaker
But I do know that companies are going to earn shitloads of money. And society going to be structured for them to be successful. So you better get on board and get a piece of that shit. Equity investment.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yep. Mine is, so you came out, you went you went fucking Che Guevara of the whole the whole ah whole podcast today and and you come out with this right wing make money, save money, and invest money message. No, no, I'm saying. I'm going the other way.
00:54:38
Speaker
I'm saying we could solve it, but I don't think we will. So just fucking invest. you You're basically telling your kids play in the game that's that's out there and and do it. You got to do it. Otherwise, you'll be fine.
00:54:52
Speaker
I think just my my message is... is These this is not this is ah not necessarily going to save our society. But like when you look at these people that you might consider you were taught as a kid that that's not the end. That's not what you want to be when you go up the front desk worker, the cop, the whatever customer service agent.
00:55:14
Speaker
Be nice to them. Fucking thank them. Treat them with respect. Like they're not, they're no worse people than these idiot entrepreneurs that made a lot of money that, that a lot of times got very lucky. Uh, and, but also piggybacked on the backs of society that we all established by paying taxes, infrastructure, minimum wage laws, workforce, all that shit, uh, or, or our consumer spending is helping them get rich.
00:55:41
Speaker
So treat these other people with respect. That might be a good place to start. Well said.