Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Open Mic #36 - Mr. McMahon with J Bone of "Coming Down the Aisle"
10 Plays2 months ago
Join The MVP and J Bone as they dive deep into the Netflix docuseries, Mr. McMahon!
In this special episode, they break down each installment of the series, exploring the life and legacy of Vince McMahon. From his early days to the scandals and controversies that have surrounded him, and there is No Chance In Hell they leave no stone unturned.
Is Vince McMahon the same ruthless character off-screen as he is on? Tune in to find out our thoughts and dive into the history, scandals, and legacy of one of wrestling's most controversial figures. 
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Who the hell told you tonight was...
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome everyone to a very special episode of Open Mic with the MVP Marco. I'm, of course, your host, the MVP Marco. And I call it a special show because I have a special guest with me. He's coming down the aisle right now. And his name is J-Bone.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm coming down the aisle. Let me tell you something. This is me, Jaybone, and I've got to come down that aisle. We're starting off hot, dear. Yeah, I know, right. So if you can't tell, this is a special episode because we are reviewing the Netflix series, Mr. McMahon. We're going to go through each episode. Obviously, we're not going to sit here for six hours doing it.
00:01:24
Speaker
We're gonna hit each episode, we're gonna give our thoughts on the series and then hopefully our thoughts on Mr. McMahon himself. Is he far from the character he portrayed on television or is it the same guy that he was just living his life out on TV, living his fantasies? We'll answer those questions definitely. I think he was pretty much living his fantasies but we'll get into that later on.
Panel Discussion Critique
00:01:53
Speaker
Jaybone What's it what are your thoughts on uh, so we'll we'll we'll jump into this so recently pairs Morgan
00:02:03
Speaker
you know, he did a panel with some former employees of Vitsikman, as well as Phil Mushnick, the arch nemesis of Vitsikman. And, you know, he, Peres Morgan is the only person I've seen do anything on this docu-series. Besides me and you, they're the only two-letter activists right now. So what were your thoughts on
00:02:26
Speaker
how he put that panel together, what their thoughts on it, because they talked about the docu-series and they're pretty much going to answer the same questions. They answer the same questions we're going to try to answer. Is Mr. McMahon who he is on TV or is he just a straight up guy and everyone loves him? What were your thoughts on Piers Morgan's attempt to jump into the into the ring, as they say?
00:02:50
Speaker
What a survivor series crew he had, huh? Maven, Vince Russo, Jonathan Coachman, and Charlie Caruso. Yeah, buddy.
00:03:00
Speaker
you know, for one thing, to be honest with you, he, you know, of course he had Vince Russo, who's there, you know, fairly early on, you know, you know, I guess he, you know, he, he had covered WWE as a journalist in the early nineties. He'd mentioned that. And then of course we know Vince bro, bro, let me tell you about the attitude error, bro.
00:03:23
Speaker
The attitude era is where everything was at bro. Okay. Uh, anyways, uh, we can get into that, but
00:03:36
Speaker
man, this was trash TV at its best. Yeah. It didn't seem like car crash TV. It wasn't serious at all. It didn't seem like it was like, yo, Morgan, he wasn't really a good mediator between the, it seemed like they were kind of not all, it seemed like they're all pandering almost.
McMahon's Persona and WWE Ownership
00:03:56
Speaker
So not like, I don't want to say pandering. It seemed like they were, you know, saying like, you know, Vince McMahon was a great guy, blah, blah, blah. But it's like,
00:04:03
Speaker
I mean, they worked with him. Obviously, we never worked on so he could have been a good boss to them and stuff like that. But I mean, judging from the series and what we're seeing now,
00:04:14
Speaker
I don't know. I don't I don't think I think it should. They could have been a little bit more honest. I think it seemed like they all wanted like they don't want to step on any toes or anything like that. Well, and I guess that's kind of the the issue, the crux of the situation with what Vince is going through right now is, you know, is the power he will wield it as as boss. And I mean, I guess even now, so people are still afraid to kind of talk about Vince McMahon.
00:04:41
Speaker
you know, you know, as far as, especially behind the scenes, because you never know what's going to happen in pro wrestling. And, you know, um, but I think, you know, of course we'll, we'll get into, I'm sure we'll get into all the scandals and whatnot, but I think Vince has probably done, um, for good. I mean, I mean, he sold off every piece of ownership that he had to the company, you know, so, um, he no longer
00:05:09
Speaker
holds any power at all. Like he's just a civilian. He's like, he owns the same amount of WWE as I do. That's, that's crazy to think about. That is very, that's, that is, that is actually, I didn't even thought of it that way. He's just a mark like the rest of us. Yeah. Yeah. Stupid mark. Uh, anyways,
00:05:35
Speaker
Uh, but I mean, this, this Piers Morgan thing was classic TV.
Interview Tactics and Criticism of Phil Mushnick
00:05:40
Speaker
You know, he sets everybody up with the, uh, what do you think of Phil Mushnick and the, the, the, the, they, they give their thoughts and, and then he goes, Oh, just like pro wrestling is you need a good run in. And he brings Phil Mushnick in.
00:05:57
Speaker
I think Maven in this thing accidentally kind of stooged it off a little bit by accident. Cause he was like, I did know that film was sick was going to be. Yeah. So, but, uh, there's no way like, you know, that Maven knew and the rest didn't, you know, but, uh, I mean, they, they gave their all honest opinions and feel much sick, feel more sick, man. He, he's like,
00:06:26
Speaker
he did not look good in this interview at all. He didn't know. He portrayed his old man yelling at the clouds. He's like looking at the screen. He's looking down at the screen. The old, I'm like yelling at Vince Russo, like dude, camera's up here, bro.
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah, he didn't he didn't fare too well. And I was kind of, you know, obviously, well, you know, sing his praises a little bit for this docuseries, because, you know, he's one of the first people to, you know, whether like they said, whether whether the accusations back then were, you know, false or true. He was the only one out there actually reporting on it. Right. And it seems like a lot of the things he was reporting on is, you know, now have come to light, which is
00:07:14
Speaker
You know, he was a little too early in his crusade against Vince McMahon. If he waited about 30, 40 years, he would have been right on the money pretty much. And I mean, you know, kudos to him for doing that for all those years, you know, trying to, you know, bring the light of, you know, what
00:07:39
Speaker
I mean, that's his job, right? I mean, his job is to sell papers, of course, as they talked about, but I mean, his job is also to, Hey, I got interesting story. I got to be a journalist. Now there's of course, some interesting things with Vince Russo said in here that was like, dude,
00:07:56
Speaker
bro, bro, you didn't go to the steroids symposium that he had. He kept saying that steroid symposium. Okay. All right. What is this? The, the, what did, I don't know, scientific inquirers or something. Anyway, he, but you know,
00:08:21
Speaker
I'm, I'm, I'm got mixed feelings about Phil much. Now in the documentary, he was portrayed pretty well. Yeah. Talk about that. You know, I, I feel like he was. Um, but, uh, you know, call him a dirt bag. Well, Vincent dirt bag. That is my man. But, uh, yeah, I mean, um,
00:08:44
Speaker
Phil mustic is somebody that, you know, was attacked pro wrestling for years. And I think wrestling fans are just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, who are the, who the hell you, you don't even watch the product, you know, really, uh, you know, you're not a fan, you know, why are you trying to do this? But I think Phil mustic was, uh, was attacked, I guess. I think it attacked wrongly at times, but I mean, again, that's what
00:09:14
Speaker
That's how McMahon and, um, your Cornette, you know, they, they, they attacked him live on Monday Night Raw a couple of times. I don't know if you remember that, you know, coordinate how you used to have those, uh, those segments, those like shoot segments, you know, and he would attack Phil Mushnick on there. Um,
00:09:36
Speaker
Uh, because of like some things that he would say about death of pro wrestlers, which I think he was trying to, trying to bring it to light. Yeah, which is like, like, like Brian Pillman. I remember it was like, was right after Brian Pillman's death, you know, and he would talk about that, but.
00:09:50
Speaker
Um, Phil must go. I think he was trying to, I think he was probably a fan of for wrestling. I, and I, and in fact, if you were actually looking at this interview, he w he is a fan of pro wrestling, especially like your seventies. You know, he talked about Bruno, how Bruno was a good man. Um, he like used things like work, like words, like work and all this stuff. So I think he's a fan of pro wrestling. I just think he was not a fan of what McMahon was doing. Yeah. Um,
00:10:18
Speaker
specifically, you know, especially although there's, there's a ton of scandals going on then in the late eighties, early nineties.
Exploration of McMahon's Early Life
00:10:25
Speaker
And I guess we could kind of start getting into that. Yeah, definitely. So, um, so the first episode, obviously, um, they titled it junior, which is basically, you know, cause he's Vincent command junior. Um, obviously it talks about, you know, his, uh, his father, you know, his early life with his father, um,
00:10:46
Speaker
you know, when young Vince McMahon, you know, set his eyes on the worldwide wrestling federation, as it was called back then.
00:10:58
Speaker
you know, and then obviously he, you know, the story about it from his father is like, actually, let's get into that a little bit. Cause I kind of want to, you know, talk about the relationship with his father and the way his father treated him. And we kind of talked about this a little bit off air before we did this, not off air before the show, but like Justin, you know, Justin talks, like you want to, you know, when you, usually when you're, it doesn't matter if you're a parent or whatever,
00:11:27
Speaker
you know, when you're you're you're a young lad or young lady in your, you know, in your family and you see things that aren't, you know, that you don't want to repeat. We'll say that your parents have done that you don't repeat. It's kind of like breaking the cycle. Right. And it seems like Vince Jr. Did not do that with with his, you know, his family.
00:11:52
Speaker
that we'll also get into. It seemed like he kept the same attitude as his father, kept with him. His father was very, it seemed like, I mean, Evie, I mean, the other thing, too, we get to express who is Vintick, man, is he's speaking on this documentary. So these are words that are coming out of his mouth, him talking about how his father was.
00:12:12
Speaker
the best dad was the most loving person in the world, kind of treat him as like a second class citizen in his home, grew up in a trailer, all that type of stuff. Did he say, I believe his stepfather raised him, right? Or something like that. Yes. Yeah. So he didn't know his dad until he was like 12 years old. Yeah, that's right.
00:12:37
Speaker
And, uh, or he never met his dad. I think he knew that, you know, the stepdad wasn't his dad, but he didn't meet him until he's 12 years old. And then it, I don't think they really got into how the meeting came about. I think I remember seeing some stuff like way back when, like, I think he was, you know, he was shipped off to a boarding school at one point, I believe. And I think his dad actually paid for it.
00:13:03
Speaker
Uh, because he was like a troubled kid, I guess, but they talk about, I guess one of the big, big things that, uh, you know, upbringing was really shocked me in this. I'd always heard that he was, um, sexually abused. He mentioned that they didn't bring that up yet.
00:13:22
Speaker
And I was, I thought maybe, okay, you know, you always assume, okay, it's the dad or whatever. This is mom, you know? Uh, so what's interesting is he had a, still had a close relationship with his mom. Yeah. Even until her passing, she just passed away like what, like two, three years ago, I believe. Um, not that long ago. Yeah. She was, she was really old too, but she passed away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was like, uh, like almost a hundred pushing a hundred. Yeah. But, um,
00:13:52
Speaker
I almost wanted, you know, this is kind of, I guess gets a little dark, but you know, if you saw the Jake, the snake stuff, Jake Roberts had dealt with something similar. Yeah. But it was, but it was, but it was his father that was pushing his stepmom on him, you know? Yeah. I wonder if that was like just the thing back then, you know, just a weird,
00:14:17
Speaker
weird, weird kink that men that age had. I don't know. Think of that. That's actually a good point. Yeah, that's right. Because I mean, to me, you know, if anybody, whether it's a parent or not, it doesn't matter who it is.
00:14:35
Speaker
if they have had, if they abused me, I'm not going to have a relationship with them, you know? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So he still he still had a relationship with her, you know, all these years. So, yeah, I don't know. It's a it's it's interesting situation, of course. So, yeah, it's one of those one of those things where it's like, obviously, you want to believe you want to believe people and stuff like that. But, you know, how much
00:15:02
Speaker
Was it something that he seen as abuse? Or was it, you know, I don't know. It's like, it's one of those things that's like, if you still, and I can't say that because some people do continue relationships with people that, you know, abuse them and stuff like that. Well, that's sure you had psychological things. So that can't happen. So what do they call that?
00:15:22
Speaker
I can't think right now. Anyways, I'm obviously not a psychologist. So that's okay. Yeah. There are situations where that happens that I didn't even like think of that. And it's a mom too. So it's like,
00:15:43
Speaker
I mean, you're gonna love your mom no matter what, especially if you're a son. They always talk about the love between a mother and son and how that can never be replicated and things like that. So a lot of deep rooted things when it comes to that situation. So yeah, I can definitely see.
00:16:00
Speaker
that side. But yeah, definitely a hard, you know, a hard, uh, you know, childhood for, for Vincent J. McMahon. Uh, no, his father was no judge. Okay. V K M baby. V K M. But, um, yeah, he, uh, you know,
00:16:19
Speaker
that's kind of lays the you know that first episode kind of lays the groundwork almost for you know everything else that you'll see throughout the series yeah um and almost you know when you learn about his upbringing and the stuff he went through yeah we kind of you know plays into you know all the things that happens later on in his life kind of maybe not having a childhood the greatest childhood and maybe living out his childhood later on a lot of
00:16:47
Speaker
people do that as well. Yeah, really deep, deep dive into like, how bad his childhood was. But, you know, he told story when he's on Pat McAfee's show, he didn't interview he talked about that, you know, getting into fights all the time, just being a bad kid. And like he said, sending sending him off to military school, you know, trying to set him straight. And I think that's where he got his
00:17:12
Speaker
I mean, obviously from the people that work with him and stuff like that, like his way of working, like his ways of working, you should say, the environment he set up in the corporate setting anyway, not the other stuff. Being properly dressed all the time, addressing him as Mr. Whatever. I've seen things where if it was a meeting, he walks into the room, everyone stands up until he sits down and then everyone else can sit down.
00:17:40
Speaker
another thing is uh his which surprised me with those text messages that we saw from in the uh in the uh in the lawsuit yeah the lawsuit but he was big on having what they call king's english speech like this very very proper speech but when you read those text messages like
00:18:01
Speaker
freaking 15 year old. It's not necessarily like the, the subject matter, of course, but it's like the way he would text, like, what do you do? Like, no, nothing. That's always like,
00:18:15
Speaker
It's weird. Like I said, it was like one of those things I get the corporate setting. It was all proper. Like I was saying, like, please certain, like women had to wear, you know, you know, business, like business, you know, like blazers and, you know, business skirts. Ben had to be suit and tie all the time. And then obviously with the sneezing stuff, sneezing, sun weakness. Yeah. So that type of stuff. And then, you know, I hate sneezing.
00:18:45
Speaker
And then, you know, you can't say he didn't, you know, I mean, he ran the business for what, 40 years. And you can't say it wasn't successful, whatever he was doing in that, you know, in the business side of things was, you know, almost genius in that sense. But then, you know, the behind the scenes stuff is what we're obviously going to be talking about when it comes to Mr. McMahon.
00:19:15
Speaker
But basically, just to shorten up the first episode, he meets his father. His father's kind of a dick to him, wants to be a part of the family business. And he's like, no, get the hell out of here. You're not going to do that. I think he had to do stupid shit. He was ring announcing and not giving him a full Nepo-type deal. You're going to work for this. And even on giving him the company,
00:19:45
Speaker
He had to buy the company. Yeah. So like, you know, his father never saying he loved them or never hugging him, that type of stuff. And that's, you know, it might seem kind of like, you know, stupid to talk about, but later on in life.
00:20:02
Speaker
it's going to show up somewhere. Right. You're not getting that love from, you know, from your, you know, dependent, especially obviously your mother's going to show you love if you're, if you're a boy. But you know, the father, you know, for a son, like, for the son is like, yo, that's the hero. That's the guy that you look up to.
00:20:18
Speaker
So you definitely want that admiration. You definitely want to get your hugs. I love you, son. You're doing a great job. None of that stuff from his father. It seemed like his father did not utter any kind words to him or any encouraging words at all to the young friends. I think that's just kind of the times as well, too, if you think about it.
00:20:41
Speaker
You know, I can see that. I think, I think like probably like our dad's maybe at least my dad was kind of like that too. He kind of, he had to warm up a little bit to the, the, I love yous and all that stuff. That's what I'm saying. Like I think our desk maybe really kind of broke that cycle a little bit. Yeah. Yep.
00:21:00
Speaker
Um, because you see, it was like, you don't hug your son. That's like a shot sign of weakness. You don't hope, you know, I think that was just in general, you know, that's just how men just stop crying, you know, that kind of stuff, you know? Uh, and I think, you know, I mean, of course, you know, we, I know we both do, we both work hard, but I think,
00:21:22
Speaker
Men in general, like they had a lot of pressure on them, uh, there in that time. Cause you know, a lot of times it was, you know, okay. The woman was, the home, the, the, the home taker took care of the home and the men took care of the, you know, did the work and brought the money home. Now it's different now where you have, you know, um, which in a good way is, you know, you have mom and dad working now and, um,
00:21:52
Speaker
You know, I think there were, there's a lot less, less pressure on men. Maybe, you know, I think that's maybe part of it. So I have to like, okay, I gotta, I gotta like kill it, you know, every day at work, you know, um, I would, I would think that's.
00:22:10
Speaker
very possible, but I think just like this men that air just didn't show affection. Like those just, this is not a thing, but I think like I said, our father's probably started, started the trend of breaking that a little bit, you know, cause I think, you know, my dad is a little the same as probably what you're talking about. But, um, again, I'm just speaking from my experience and I'm like, what, my dad's great. I mean, he,
00:22:36
Speaker
He, but he, he was like one of those that provided he's a provider. So he was always working, always working, trying to do what he can do. Yeah. You know, um, that's, that's kind of where I'm kind of going with that. Um, and maybe that was, it was kind of the same thing with, with Vince and with, uh, Vince senior and Vince junior. And then junior kind of took that like, Oh, this is how you have to be a dad.
Transformation of Wrestling Business
00:22:57
Speaker
Like you were alluded to earlier, we're breaking the cycle. And I think that's another thing from our generation, like breaking the cycles being, being a, uh,
00:23:07
Speaker
very common way of doing things nowadays, even like, like, you know, getting real personal here, but you know, like,
00:23:16
Speaker
Um, you know, my mom, you know, she would, she would always say like, Hey, we gotta, you know, I just want to break the cycle, you know, from issues that she's had and things like that. So, um, but yeah, I think it's, uh, I think that's a very common thing nowadays, but yeah, relationship is very interesting.
00:23:36
Speaker
I'm not saying borderline toxic. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, what he did to, I mean, he did, you know, in a sense, you know, just kind of to wrap up this episode, he did in a sense break the cycle of, you know, wrestling in general, like professional wrestling, the way it was ran instead of, you know, breaking the cycle with his family. It was like, now I'm going to break the cycle with how this is run. I'm going to,
00:24:03
Speaker
you know back then it was like it was territories every part of the country had their own promotion all stuff and they never you know intermingled they all had their own champions they all you know all that type of stuff they may you know you may have like reached out to one of the you know the other promotions champions and hey can you come over and you know have a match with you know one of our champions or one of our upstarts that type of thing but other than that it was no really no intermingling but they all the owners were all
00:24:32
Speaker
It was like a mafia, almost like a crime family. They all had their own territories, coming on this territory or something bad will happen. But Vince McMahon was like, no, I'm breaking that cycle.
00:24:45
Speaker
closed down all the territories. I'm going to completely take control of everything. Yeah. And, you know, that that obviously that ruffled feathers. I mean, if you listen to a lot of those, you know, even Jim Ross's podcast, he talked about those meetings of, you know, actually doing a mafia deed to Vincent Mann Jr. and getting rid of him because he was, you know, killed the territories.
00:25:09
Speaker
But then, you know, just to go on, you know, Vince McMahon Sr. ends up, you know, selling the company to Vince Jr., you know, basically telling him,
00:25:23
Speaker
don't do anything basically don't do anything stupid don't don't don't rock the boat yeah don't step on any toes you're the young guy you're the you're the young fresh guy in this business you know a lot of history here don't you know I've created this thing I've created relationships don't ruin it yeah yeah sure thing dad
00:25:41
Speaker
Um, i'll show you all right pops. Yeah, um, and then you know Just say yo, like I said end this episode again, uh, hulk hogan comes into play Who was you know working for vincent man? See we have to talk about hogan. I mean he's he's an integral part of this obviously, but he you know, he ends up getting fired vincent man. See if fires him because hulk hogan wants to do rocky three, you know thunder lips
00:26:08
Speaker
And he's like, no, no, we don't do that. You know, he, a wrestler, you don't, you know, you're not a Hollywood guy. You stay in. And I was like, no, you know, that was a work for me, brother. Even back then, um, it does it, he gets fired. And then, uh, you know, lo and behold, when, you know, Vince McMahon Jr. drops the, uh, one of the W's, it makes a WWF instead of WWF. He hires back.
00:26:36
Speaker
Hulk Hogan as his main attraction, which as he even said, he was like, God, look at this guy. Like he's like, he's a big, big, good looking guy. Like, how could you get rid of him? Like, this is, that's cause he did a movie. Who cares? I mean, we're going to be doing tons of movies. I'm going to let everybody do like, he already had that like vision in his head, like,
00:26:58
Speaker
I mean, which is a good, I mean, good and bad, like he didn't change the course of professional wrestling. Because he kind of killed, you know, what was before it, he kind of walked he, he kind of killed the tradition of professional wrestling in the sense with, you know, the territories and how it was ran and things like that. So
00:27:21
Speaker
But you know, we wouldn't have, we wouldn't be where we are today talking about it anyway. Um, anything else from episode one is really just like a history. Yeah. And one thing I want to say too, I've saw a lot of complaints about this documentary. Oh yeah. We already knew all this stuff. It's not for you. It's not for you guys. It's not for you. Marks. No, it's, it's for new people. And yeah, I think this documentary was more
00:27:48
Speaker
I mean, yes, it was about McMahon, of course, but you can't tell McMahon story without telling the history of WWE, which is not without him in it. And what are you actually talking about? Right. Right. So you should be so lucky. Like we've been wrestling long, long time wrestling fans that we've never seen Vince McMahon, like actually like really talk about anything pertaining to that business. Besides, I guess at the Pat McAfee and he really didn't say much about that.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, he did. But, uh, he also gets, well, of course we'll talk about it later on. We get, they get into Owen's death and just been wild. Never heard his thoughts on it, really.
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah. So let's get into, uh, the second episode, which is called heat. I don't know why I think I forget what the, maybe it's because of the scandals. Yeah. Scandal scandals is brewing here. Um, but yeah. So obviously, you know, WrestleMania one happens is they kind of skip Saturday night's main event. Obviously, you know, you know, wrestling being at the prime time on network television was huge. I was like, I mean, I mean, both WrestleMania one and that game changer. This is just like,
00:28:55
Speaker
If you think about it, cause wrestling was looked at as like roller derby, right? I kind of seemed like, okay. Yeah. Let's, or like a monster truck show, right? Like, uh, let's, you know, they're in town. Let's go check it out. Whatever. You know, just imagine like, I guess watch the trucks got, that's one bit decently big, but not as big as wrestling did. Now it's like really, they don't really hardly ever show it now. But, uh, you know, just, but just imagine monster trucks, Bradley was on.
00:29:25
Speaker
prime time television or roller derby was on prime 10. This is the equivalent of this wrestling. Just one in the net category. So yeah. So it's insane. Just like, like you said, just say even the thought of that back then.
00:29:39
Speaker
was like, Holy shit. This is like professional wrestling is on network television. Like millions of people are going to be watching this. Not, not on some like closed circuit television channel. This is, this is countrywide right now. So like I said, already changed it. You know, Vince McMahon, you know, making, making waves.
00:29:59
Speaker
you know kind of killed the business but kind of recreated it at the same time when it comes to that. You know obviously like we said WrestleMania 1 was a huge success for them, brought in Mr. T, had the Rockin' Wrestling thing going with Cyndi Lauper and Captain Lou and all that stuff so it was it was way in the uh like in the media and stuff like that um
00:30:21
Speaker
So it was it was kind of like back it's obviously now it's a lot more you know present and in everything but back then it was like how it is now it was like on MTV you know celebrities wanted to be a part of it um you know be it you know Hollywood you know the music industry everyone wanted to be you know a part of you know ww weapon WrestleMania at the time so
00:30:45
Speaker
I mean, big difference from when obviously his father was running it, you know, the Mid-South and all that stuff. Obviously he had the Andy Kaufman. That was kind of like that crossover. But that was Memphis. I wasn't anyone else. It was Jerry.
00:31:02
Speaker
that soap. It's sad. Yeah. So like that, since that, that since that time, that's the only like time you really see that kind of crossover. This is even bigger. So this is crossing over like to different genres of music, music and television, movie, television, because of Mr. T being a part of WrestleMania, the biggest like celebrity at the time, Mr. T.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah. From old to young, all of Mr. T. He was like freaking America's sweetheart back then. And he, you know, it's a man got a hold of him and, you know, put him on, uh, put on WrestleMania and rest his history. Um, this history for sure. What are your thoughts on, uh, what are your thoughts on that? Like the, you know, the, the, the, uh, you know, him taking over and then just like immediately go and go with left field with
00:31:52
Speaker
Well, I mean, again, like we talked about, I mean, I'm, of course I've been on the lifelong wrestling fans so far off heart of these stories. So, um, I think, you know, personally, I guess I don't have an issue with him, like necessarily, you know, killing the territories. I mean, and I guess we're going to get into my own personal views. I mean, you know, America's a free market. Yeah. Uh, you know, and so.
00:32:19
Speaker
You know, if you got an idea, you got a way to, to grow your business, do it, you know, uh, kind of like how he said in there. Now there was some shady things and we'll go back real quick.
00:32:33
Speaker
there's a dark side of the ring talking about, uh, talking about the black Saturday, whenever, uh, McMahon buys Georgia championship wrestling and he does it very, very not, uh, ethical, shall we say.
00:32:51
Speaker
Uh, it was a great episode actually. And this is that watching that, actually I learned a lot about this man through there. Of course, Vince is not in it, but, um, that that's a, it's a good little companion piece to, to this documentary. You know, yeah, definitely. Um, and they actually, so it was done by, of course, vice TV vice TV also did an unauthorized McMahon documentary about it. They put it out about a year and year ago, I believe. Yeah. But, um, you know, of course, you know, I've heard all these stories.
00:33:21
Speaker
Again, I don't necessarily have a problem with it because all these, all of these promoters, they all had the same opportunity as Vince. You know, maybe this had a little bit more power stroke and money being that it was New York, right? Yeah. But like you take like Vern Ganya, he was been, he, he controlled the, he really controlled the wrestling world. Yeah. For years.
00:33:47
Speaker
But he never crossed those lines, as they say, you know, he never put like Ric Flair in California and this, uh, you know, as AWA champion or, or, uh, anybody, Nick Bockwinkle or anything like that, you know? Uh, so they never, they never crossed those lines until, you know, um, or really ever. I mean, I guess until really Vince started doing this.
00:34:12
Speaker
So I don't really, I don't really have a problem with it. And in fact, it's what helped grow, grew the wrestling business to what it is today. And, and allowed wrestlers would have such a great.
00:34:25
Speaker
life, you know, was back up a great way to make a living. Should I say, yeah, yeah, maybe they didn't have a great life because of things they had to do, but, uh, to get there, but, uh, you know, they were afforded to make a good living because of this McMahon. That's about all the glowing words I'm going to have here, but, uh, you know, so I don't really have necessarily have an issue with it.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah. And then, you know, the, the other side of that too is during this time, obviously, you know, to put on these shows, obviously he's spending a lot of money to get these shows going, especially around like WrestleMania two, when they're doing multiple cities. Um, you know, they're doing, you know, they're doing two days, three days, not, not, not with WrestleMania, but just in general, just like, you know, wrestling, he made it so kind of like,
00:35:24
Speaker
made it such a boom period that they were just constantly going, which leads into later on when you get into the, you know, the, you know, the drugs of the, you know, the steroids and all that stuff and try to, you know, be that peak performer, kind of like leads into it when you're, when you're pushing these guys, as much as, you know, he was back then.
00:35:46
Speaker
And, you know, they all probably had their own merit in the sense where they're like, you know, this is you were trying to grow. We're trying to help grow this business. Let's just do it.
00:35:55
Speaker
They weren't, they weren't probably thinking about, you know, later on how they get, you know, their bodies in a breakdown or they're going to need this extra thing to keep them going. They're just thinking, man, this is huge. We get paid. This is something new. We get, we get to get this. We get, you know, we're a part of history. Let's, let's keep it. Let's, let's move it. Let's move forward. Um, and the, the, uh, did they ever, they didn't really get into how, did they get into how he got that network deal?
00:36:22
Speaker
Well, I know he was very first with Dick Ebersole who, um, was head of NBC sports at the time. And, uh, you know, they needed, um, they needed to put something on, uh, Dick Ebersole was also producer setting it alive as well too. So they needed to put something on one Saturday night live wasn't running as well. So that's why we became Saturday night's main event. So
00:36:49
Speaker
Um, they didn't bring up something too on here that a little people know about. So when they were doing those, uh, you know, like WrestleMania, WrestleMania one, um, and they were doing those, like, you know, you know, closed circuit, you know, so you could watch it. Um, kind of like not really pay-per-view yet. Um, boxing.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah. Boxing is pretty, boxing is where it is because of Vince McMahon pretty much. He's a little, they piggyback off of, right? Like, uh, no, no, you're right. Yeah. Do you, I don't know if you remember this. Was it Sugar Ray?
00:37:28
Speaker
Sugar Ray Leonard. Yeah, it hurts. Yeah. And Sugar Ray was at that fight that they kind of did like a almost like a back to back or like a they promoted it. They promoted that fight through. It was a WrestleMania one or two, I forget, or three. I think it was WrestleMania two. That's right. So like they seem
00:37:51
Speaker
We got to talk about this too, like as much as we got to probably shit on this man later on in this thing. He was responsible for a lot of things that you see now as far as pay-per-view.
00:38:01
Speaker
Um, big proponent and pay-per-view. He pretty much like, I'm not sure if he started pay-per-views, but he, I mean, he pretty much did, but the, the, the, he helped grow the business for sure. And then, you know, getting boxing into it. So now boxing is starting to do, you know, take on that model, um, that Vince McMahon's doing and, you know, putting on pay-per-views and stuff like that. Later on, you know, the WWE network pretty much started all this.
00:38:31
Speaker
Like streaming, I shouldn't say exclusive streaming, you know, like the Paramount pluses, right? So like when, when those companies take their own things to say, we're not going to license this to Netflix or anyone else. We're just going to build our own streaming service. And we own enough, you know, movie properties and things like that. And in IPs, we get us duos. Vince McMahon started that W network is the, like pretty much the first to be obviously network Netflix was around, but Netflix didn't own any of that stuff.
00:39:01
Speaker
They were licensed in all those movies. WWE Network was its own licensed streaming service where it owned all of its content. It was like the first person content streaming service. And then obviously later on, like I said, you get Dizzy Plus is doing it now, Peacock. I think MGM Studios started doing it. Paramount Pictures is doing it now.
00:39:28
Speaker
I mean, they probably would never give him credit for it, but he showed success in those things before they even happened. But we'll kind of go back to the 80s, travel back to the 80s and WrestleMania 2. So obviously, off of the Saturday Night Zamania event, WrestleMania 1, I kind of alluded to it. Even Hulk Hogan said it on there, they're working like,
00:39:54
Speaker
two days, two times a day, three times a day, maybe. Yeah. And then, you know, traveling over and doing another show that night, stuff like that. So they're working overtime, which leads to, you know, you get a lot of people working, you know, not really any benefits, you know, when you do that. So some people don't want to go down to the Baja. Yeah.
00:40:23
Speaker
like, you know what? We are working a lot. We do need some type of benefits or a more safe and productive way of working. Let's start a union. And that was Jesse Ventura was like, let's start a union. And this was before WrestleMania 2. He tried to get the guys together and start a union. But
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah, I guess his plans got extinguished very fast because a blonde haired fellow, a blonde tanned fellow. Started stroking that Fu Man shoes. Ran to the boss and said. That's not going to work for me, brother.
00:41:03
Speaker
You're just trying to start a huge brother that you should you should say something and guess what? What a piece of shit. It's a man came up there like I don't know anything about me. What are you talking about? People started fairing for their lives like that. They don't want to lose their jobs. So yeah, that was kind of a shit. He didn't even say why he did it, right? No, I know exactly why he did it.
00:41:25
Speaker
I mean, if you, if you start a union, that means you have to start giving equal pay. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, so brothers, brother's going to lose money. Come on now. Yeah. Me being that level headed, like, you know, not thinking of like myself anyway or that situation. Right. I'm not thinking that he's doing, Hey, I'm not sure if I paid with these guys. Exactly. That's exactly what was going on in his mind. Cause that's what was going to have to happen.
00:41:52
Speaker
So he wasn't going to get the big bucks anymore. Yeah, he wasn't. Yeah. He wouldn't be big dog anymore. And so that that's, that's why he did that, you know, and that's, that's why he's a piece of shit. Now I'll be honest. I'm not a huge fan of unions in general. This is my personal opinion, but
00:42:12
Speaker
I do think like, especially then wrestlers need some type of benefits package or something. Still to this day, it blows them on that they're contract employees, they're 1099 employees, meaning they do not receive a W2. They have to pay out their own taxes. Usually you have to do like a quarterly payment
00:42:34
Speaker
I mean, you could do it however you want it, but it's better if you do quarter payments, you know, you won't hit. So it's such a big bill at the end of the year, but, um,
00:42:45
Speaker
You know, these guys are not technically employees, but then you get into it. They're signed to deals where they can't exclusive deals where they can't say, of course, that's still happening to today, but they can't go work. You know, WCW and W a minute landing, whatever, you know, they have to work for WWF. And then like I said, still to this day where WWE employees can't go to AEW.
00:43:10
Speaker
I mean, maybe that is, it somewhat regards good for the business, but it was definitely good for the business, but it's good for the, maybe even good for the wrestlers in some parts in that. Like it was your contract goes out. Then they have this exposure of a new audience.
00:43:27
Speaker
And it's like, Oh, wow. Like tickets just ricochet. Well ricochets here, you know, um, uh, or, you know, uh, like we saw recently, Oh, water city machine guns are here, you know? Yeah. You know, you know, old faces and new places kind of thing, you know? But, but then after so long, you know, they get put into the system and it's like, okay, you know, there's any other guys. Right. So, but I mean,
00:43:58
Speaker
I just, I don't know. I don't like that. I hate that model. I'm not saying really a union would fix that, but some type of situation would have been better than what they were doing. So, you know, maybe back then, I mean, I guess probably the union would be the answer because unions were a little bit more organized and they were so political like they are now. Um, I think, I think unions were like, Hey, let's, they are for the,
00:44:26
Speaker
you know, the working man, you know, let's, I don't, I think unions are more like, okay, well we gotta be with our political allies, you know.
00:44:39
Speaker
And it's, it's a little frustrating to watch sometimes. That's why, that's why I don't like unions. But anyways, uh, but that's, that's WrestleMania two and Jesse Ventura. So yeah. Um, and then obviously with WrestleMania two, it was like I said, it was in three venues in New York, Illinois and California, which was kind of, you know, they thought he was back then he was even crazy to pull off, but.
00:45:02
Speaker
I mean, they did it with no, uh, with, I mean, I don't want to say with no hassle in hindsight. Um, I didn't, I don't think they'd, I mean, nowadays I don't think they, they probably could do that actually today, uh, with a popularity that it's in. I think they could fill up the real readers at once if they wanted to. Um, yeah, you know, it's, it's a good chance, but it'd be a little logistic nightmare still, I think. Yeah. Um, it's kind of amazing that they still.
00:45:34
Speaker
You know, the day that they, you really can't perform, you know, we're able to kind of get with the kid get done back then. So yeah. But yeah. And then obviously, you know, WrestleMania three comes along, you know, biggest WrestleMania. This is kind of like the make or break.
00:45:56
Speaker
Mania, whether it's gonna go on for four or five or, you know, so on and so forth. Because, you know, WrestleMania two was kind of, you know, it was successful, but it was, it had its flaws, like I said, three arenas at once and all that stuff. And, you know, they talk about on the episode how crazy it was to do that. A lot of the guys are kind of like beat up because they had to travel again and, you know, do another show and stuff like that.
00:46:24
Speaker
WrestleMania 3 comes, this is a make or break.
WWE Scandals and Legal Challenges
00:46:27
Speaker
Obviously, they get all the A-list celebrities for this. I think like, yo, what do you call it? Did Aretha Franklin? Did the-
00:46:39
Speaker
Alice Cooper was there. You know, obviously we can't we can't forget. We always got to say this. The reason why WrestleMania exists. Howard Finkel named it WrestleMania. They were going to call it like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to call something like Muscle Fesser. Do they grow beat down or something crazy shit like that? I don't remember the exact name that they've flown out, but.
00:47:02
Speaker
But Franco was like, let's call it WrestleMania. Yeah. So, yeah. Bob Euchre. I can't forget a long time. You know, WWF contributor. So, yeah, they brought out the big guns for WrestleMania three. It was successful. We know. Sorry. You know, slam the stinky giant, blah, blah, blah. That's where it's safe. Exactly.
00:47:27
Speaker
the guy like the rock does. So you do. Can you just hurry up and do your thing? When you say your prayers and you do the book, that shit is fucking hilarious. But anyway, shortly after that, um, you know,
00:47:47
Speaker
They talk about your WWF going down a little bit businesses it kind of crazy to think at the WrestleMania that we have some business starts to decline a little bit on his end. But then obviously, the drug scandals come into play. But one notable one that they brought up that I sort of knew about but didn't was the sex scandal,
00:48:14
Speaker
Um, scandal that, uh, you know, I think it was like, I think it's something like 88 to 90 or 92 or something like that. Um, uh, that was, you know, uh, Mel Phillips, they bring him up in the, in the episode. Um, he was a WWF rank announcer. Um, and he was accused of, uh, we'll say essaying. Um, there you go.
00:48:39
Speaker
I like that essay essay multiple ring boys essay. Yeah. I like that. I like Marco. You're such a professional. Obviously, you know, ring boys are the, you know, they were the, they were the crew. They would, you know, build the ring up because the rings and parts and stuff like that. You put the ropes on, put the, you know, the plywood down. So they would
00:49:02
Speaker
build the ring up. And at the end of the show, they would break the ring down. So that's what they would do. And there was rumblings and accusations of these boys. Like I said, they're all underage. They were in trouble because I think they were underage children actually working too. So that's even more of a problem anyway. But yeah, there was a bunch of
00:49:32
Speaker
your higher ups, they implemented as well as, like I said, the ring announcer for, you know, was, you know, you know, having their, having their proverbial way with the, with the ring boys. That was, and that was brought, I think, was that, was that the first one that was brought up by Phil Mushnick? Was that the, it has to be, I mean,
00:49:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the first scandal. I mean, because the steroid scandal doesn't happen really. So a couple years after this, so and, you know, and the only reason why the skin sterilization happens, of course, we haven't, we'll cut, we'll talk about is Dr. George Zorrian.
00:50:18
Speaker
who was the doctor for the Pennsylvania, um, state doctor. And he's the one, of course, like supposedly selling drugs to the wrestlers. But we'll talk about that in a little bit, but, uh, that's the only reason why that comes to light. But yeah. Uh, you know, and you know, they ended up selling on a court, uh, with one of the ring boys, I believe.
00:50:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Here's a couple of years later. Um, and then of course, as we just discussed on raw down more recently. Yes. Uh, you know, the, uh, that is coming back to light, you know, more specifically with, uh, now the lawsuit includes not only Vince McMahon, but Linda McMahon, yes. WWE and TKO. Um, and it's a,
00:51:14
Speaker
the the
00:51:29
Speaker
Of the rank boys or anything like that. I think there's only one That they did right that like back, right? I think it was right. I think it was tom or something like that. Yeah, tom. Yep. Yeah, um, and I think they They added yeah, they they added an interview into the documentary. I believe yeah. Yeah, they added tom Uh, well, they added blinda mcmahon because during that time it was her and vince that were you know, giving the direction to like yo, you know kind of discredit anything that tom was saying about
00:51:58
Speaker
you know, the abuse allegations and stuff like that. So I think that's why she's being brought into this recent one, because she was as much as, you know, a lot of people, I think they talk about that on The Darkest Days too, how much Linda was also, you know, a part of, she's a part of the business as well as her and Vince.
00:52:16
Speaker
you know, she talked about it, the business failed, they both failed, you know, that was, you know, they put all their money into it, all their, you know, life savings into the WWF and stuff like that. So she's as much, you know, as responsible for it as he is in that sense. But yeah, so that, that happens amongst, you know, like you said, I wasn't Mel, Mel Phillips.
00:52:41
Speaker
I don't think they mentioned that he was also one of the abusers in the donkey series. I think maybe. No, because that's what that's what Brett says. He was a pedophile. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they just looking at like the art of just like kind of looking up notes and stuff. Yeah. He was one of the he was one of the ones that was, you know, playing a part to that amongst other ones. They did name Pat Patterson to as well. RIP Pat Patterson. But he was brought into it.
00:53:10
Speaker
And there was a few other WWF at the time, executives, that were also, you know, you know, you know, bothering these kids, we'll say. Yes. Yeah, that was like, that was a shock to me. I didn't, I don't think I knew fully about that story at all. Like, I didn't know that was like an actual, like, thing I knew about the referee, the woman and stuff like that.
00:53:34
Speaker
that was directly involved with Vince McMahon. Um, and that's a, but I never do. I don't think I ever knew about this. These ring boys. Did you know about the ring boys? Yeah, I did. Um, I feel like maybe as like, so, so during this time as well too, it's hidden like the, the talk shows though. Like you're Sally, Jesse, Raphael's your field dog Hughes. And I feel like maybe one time as a kid, I didn't, I didn't understand it.
00:54:04
Speaker
But I feel like one time I was a kid, like I was like, Oh, they're talking WWF. Yeah. Yeah. And I think maybe I started watching it. I have like a fair, faint memory of it. And my mom was like, yeah, no, we're not watching that. That's not wrestling. They're not really talking wrestling here. I was like, okay. But I feel like I, like I, as a kid, like I,
00:54:30
Speaker
I remember it. And then of course it got brought up a lot. Um, you know, uh, during, especially during the something to wrestle with era, which I know that show still going on, but whenever it was really hot, you know, that show. Um, and then another thing that they talk about too, another scandal. There's, there's a lot of sex scandals. It's not just ring boys too. Yes.
00:54:55
Speaker
former WWF referee Rita Sharon Cheriton. That's right. She also, um, she files a lawsuit against Vince McMahon for an alleged rape that occurred, um, in a limousine. Um, and what was shocking to me right here where Vince kind of, I feel like this is where Vince kind of slips up right here.
00:55:22
Speaker
he doesn't necessarily say that there was, you know, uh, he, he, he, you know, he, he, of course he denies that there was any type of essay. He will say, um, but, uh, he doesn't deny that there wasn't a relationship there. No, he doesn't. Yeah, that's right. He doesn't. That really shocked me right there. And I feel like that's a,
00:55:52
Speaker
that's a potential slip up right there with Vince. Yeah. Um, because we're talking early eighties and we do know, you know, uh, of course fast, fast forward. This goes on there like Howard Stern and he admits, you know, this is like late in the late nineties when dressing is crazy that he admits that he had a, he's had extramarital affairs, things like that. And
00:56:20
Speaker
So we knew like that was the case, but I guess it's like, man, it's, this is, it's so important for this to talk about this because this is like the breeding ground. I feel like for what we see in 2023. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Yep.
00:56:37
Speaker
And if you look at, you could go back, go back and look at some of these claims, you know, that they're, they're defending themselves. Like Vince is defending himself against, it's like the exact wording that he has today. It's like this, I'm going to keep using this because this is what's, what's, what's working.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's like, it doesn't change the, like, if you see interviews, events in this documentary to what you see on Phil Donahue show 30 years ago, it's like almost the exact wording that he uses. So it's crazy. Yeah. Six to six to a story.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, that second episode, they did cover a lot. Like you said, they covered the steroid scandal, which obviously he
00:57:31
Speaker
ended up beating the allegations against steroid use. They also covered, like you said, they covered Rita Chatterton. And she was a guest on, this is like dating, everything.
00:57:49
Speaker
Aroldo. Aroldo, yeah. They did show like a clip of that. I've heard talking about the, you know, Vidzic Man, you know, essaying. Right. And then obviously, at the same time, like we said, we have the child abuse. So like, look, steroid scandals happening. It's starting up anyway. You know, the, you know,
00:58:13
Speaker
Rita Chatterton and her allegations, the ring boy allegations. And this is like obviously late 80s, going into the 90s and stuff like that. Jesse Lombardi Ventura also had a civil suit against Vince McMahon for, and it was like royalties for his commentary and stuff like that. I think that he won. He ended up winning against Vince McMahon. There was a lot of stuff happening to Vince in the WWE.
00:58:41
Speaker
back in the late 80s, early 90s, that people really don't talk about as much. Kind of gets glossed over. So I'm kind of glad this docu-series kind of brought that back up to light. Like, holy shit, there's kind of like a pattern of, you know, there's been a pattern with this company that's surrounded in controversy. They didn't bring up one of the things that I thought they would have brought up, Superfly Jimmy Snooka.
00:59:05
Speaker
Yeah But no well they they touched on it a little bit it was Tony Atlas brought up and so my wife was watching it and Very very very little but even they were they were talking about how they were Not
00:59:27
Speaker
very nice to women, shall we say? And, you know, they just kind of had their way, so to speak. And they touched on like a little bit with Snooka, like how, you know, we don't know what, what exactly transpired. And that, that I think, I think they kind of
00:59:49
Speaker
it was like maybe a minute or two that they talked about it. It wasn't very much, but yeah, I really got to look at the dark side of the room because that's something, but really it's a whole thing too. Like what, what's going to happen with that? Because I could guarantee you with all this stuff coming out right now,
01:00:08
Speaker
you know, right before Stukas passing, he was like going on trial. Yeah. And the whole big thing that they were trying to see if he was fit to go on trial. Yeah. Cause he was like nearing his death. Yeah. And of course then he ends up passing.
01:00:25
Speaker
But I wonder if they're going to still some way try to look at this investigation and put that on Vince in some way, not criminally, but civilly, like in like, like with the families. Yeah. That's, that's something, that's something that can be possible that you have to take into consideration. Vince is in a world.
01:00:45
Speaker
pain coming off you I mean especially with you know if you watch that um dark side of the ring episode it's his superfly jimmy snookers episode and then you know the stuff that he allegedly did for superfly so you know covering up you know his girlfriend's death and all that stuff and you know paying people off and you know covering pretty much for superfly in that in that uh that time when that happened and stuff like that so a lot a lot of shady
01:01:15
Speaker
shady business and stuff like that. And I mean, they could if they want to just if they really want to do it, they'll do it. If it's especially the federal, if it's a federal investigation, they can pin whatever they want on it. If they have enough evidence for it anyway, they could definitely do that. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't. They really want to stick it to them. But
01:01:37
Speaker
I think that actually, I mean, obviously at the end of that episode, Hulk Hogan leaves, um, cause you know, the steroid trial happens. Hulk Hogan has to testify. Um, he ends up, you know, swerving the, uh, the, the, the, what do you call it? The, um, prosecution. Yeah. Uh, I've been saying, uh, yeah, I never had it. Whatever. You basically just, you know, let's McMahon go free pretty much. Well, yeah, he says one thing to him in the,
01:02:03
Speaker
Before on in the book before interview. He says like, you know, I'll yeah say everything that you need to hear They were ready to drop the leg with him. Yeah, he was a smoking gun He was the you see, you know the guy that was gonna you know Finally put the you know, the nail the coffin for our Vincent man. He comes out and says Well, no, you never gave it to me. I never uh, anything I did on my own accord and all this stuff So that was kind of like even though they weren't seeing eye to eye Hogan and uh
01:02:32
Speaker
at the time, it was kind of like a nod to like, you know, I'm doing this for you and I'm heading to WCW pretty much. That, that whole relationship is so interesting to me. Really it is like, man, to be a fly on the wall, just on the, on all their conversations from 84 to 94, you know? And then when he comes back and all that stuff, you know, like,
01:02:55
Speaker
Uh, man, you know, you know, his nickname was for Hogan is monster, right? You know, cause that's what he was. Monster. That's what I need you to monster. Yeah. Terry, big, big, big Terry. I don't know. Right. I want to go with the name of one of his, uh, probably, it probably was probably, it was 99
Montreal Screwjob and Its Implications
01:03:16
Speaker
.9% sure. One of his. He asked to have an Andre one too.
01:03:25
Speaker
yeah but he probably didn't name him like he said monster is probably one of them named after hogan the giant was probably one of them or some shit like that
01:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's a sick man. But anyway, that finishes that episode. He had one that was flaccid, it was The Dead Man. That would have been funny dude if you had some boy like that. Holy shit. So let's skip on over to, you know, episode three, which is called The Screwjob. Obviously, everyone knows
01:03:56
Speaker
They don't be made out. I mean, they didn't really, you know, say anything that was, you know, breaking the news or noteworthy. Obviously, you know, he beats the trial. And, you know, Hogan kind of, I forgot, actually, you know, read these notes.
01:04:12
Speaker
He did state, he did kind of throw every other wrestler under the bus. The Hogan was like, they do say everyone does steroids, but I do them, but Vince would have a game to me. I got it myself. So that's how Vince got off in that sense. But obviously, the new generation kicks in because Hogan's gone.
01:04:33
Speaker
You're watching man's on his way out the door almost. So all the older generation guys are moving on. So obviously Vince is looking for the new where, you know, more, you know, you're going to come into a clean image. Now you gotta, you can't go to another steroid guy, a big muscular dude, like a WBF, the, you know, the word world bodybuilder Federation. They showed those
01:04:54
Speaker
those clips of those dudes I did, I go for and they're and they're doing like tricks and stuff like routines. I was like, oh, my God, what is that? So bad. But, yeah, so, you know, they're looking for a cleaner image. And who better to, you know, to to bring your company into the gold, you know, the golden, you know, golden goose clean image, which is Mr. Brett, the hip man heart.
01:05:21
Speaker
former tag team member of our foundation. He's on a solo career now. You know, if your kids are watching me on Saturday morning, they're probably doing all right.
01:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah. Looks to Bret Hart to be that, you know, beacon of hope like that. Like you gotta be, you gotta be that main, you know, squeaky clean, no steroids, you know, go look at guy, you know, great champion, all that type of stuff. So he uses Bret Hart to kind of get back into the, into the good graces. But they're actually during this time, I mean, WWL still, I'm doing really that great as far as like, you know, you know,
01:06:00
Speaker
you know, sales and stuff like that. And in money, WCW is kind of, you know, tracking, tracking upward with, you know, the acquisition of Hulk Hogan, you know, Scott Hall and Kevin Asheville soon leave.
01:06:17
Speaker
you know, you know, WWF or Vince McMahon's looking to, you know, create some new stars and stuff like that. So they, you know, they usher in the, the, uh, the workman's era where this is different fucking people that are working like the, you know, Duke, the dumpster and fucking race car Holly and fucking T L Hopper, T L Hopper, baby.
01:06:40
Speaker
Uh, which he was also dirty. Yeah. He was known as dirty white boy in Memphis. Yeah, hilarious. Uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah. So WCW is obviously, uh, with Ted Turner, you know, the story, they hate each other. Vince McMahon, the two rich guys that, you know, hate each other and, you know, they went into full head into, into the wrestling, wrestling business as wrestling business as a Ted Turner would say. And you know,
01:07:08
Speaker
kind of kicked the shit out of Vince McMahon in the process. In ratings, obviously, you know, Ross starts up. You know, they hired Eric Bischoff, WCW does. He's a producer for, he's a network producer for, was it for, what company was it for? No, but was he, wasn't he like a, wasn't he like a, like a, just a TV executive?
01:07:37
Speaker
No, he was just a, he was just an announcer. He was C list of the announcer. I think he was, did he be, did he get a job as a, like after that, did he get a job as like a network guy or no? No, no. He's, I know we did sales and shit. I know he talked about that, like him doing sales.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah. He had the, he had the, the, the ninja star game or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And he, and he tries to, um, well, he sells it to Vern gone. You're like, he's trying to get some ad space and Vern, I guess, like somebody says, well, why don't you come work for me? Yeah. And so he does, he does, uh, the sales syndication for, uh, for AWA. So he's doing
01:08:20
Speaker
He's trying to sell like the, the, the programming syndication force, AWA to, you know, and then he becomes the announcer. And then of course, AWA folds. He tries to, he actually does a tryout with WWF.
01:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. And then they, yeah, he's, that's actually, you can see that. Yeah. And then of course, then he ends up getting a job with WCW as like the C list. He's like on WCW pro or something like that. Like one o'clock in the morning. I think he was, I think he had the time he, I think he didn't mention on his podcast. He was doing like, yo behind the scenes, like TV production or some shit like television production for, I think that was all with AWA. Okay. So yeah. So he had that background. I think when he came into power for WCW,
01:09:04
Speaker
You know, that's what really put them in the forefront was his vision of television production for WCW Monday Nitro, the way it was presented.
01:09:16
Speaker
really, here's my, here's my personal opinion on Eric Bischoff. I think he was such a great salesman that he sold his way to that job. Yeah, that, that, that too. I don't doubt that he didn't have like some like production background, but he never was like,
01:09:37
Speaker
He never went to college for, he was more like, yo, he had the vision and the people around have to do the, yeah. So, so that that's, I think because he was such a great salesman as well as how he got that job with WCW.
01:09:51
Speaker
Um, you know, the executive producer role. So they do keep them on a short leash. They don't talk about this in documentary, but I know they keep them on a short leash at first. And then, you know, as he's, you know, like you said, as his vision starts growing and he starts getting more and more power, they start, you know, loosening the rain, so to speak with him. But, um, yeah, uh, uh, you know, it's, it's very interesting.
01:10:21
Speaker
Eric Bischoff, as much as I despise him nowadays for some of his takes.
01:10:30
Speaker
we don't have, he's very, he's still very important to the history of wrestling. Um, because he, because of his vision, you know, you know, was it fully like ideas that he came up with the cusp, you know, like, Oh, like the NWO, the whole NWO thing is a storyline based on what was going on in Japan. He just took it and he just took it and made it better basically. Um, and, but without that,
01:10:59
Speaker
you don't have attitude error. You don't need like, it's, it's like a domino effect, you know? Um, if you don't have Eric Bischoff, there's no telling where progressing ends up at, you know,
01:11:11
Speaker
Yeah. And then as much as I hate to give him credit on that, it's one of those weird things. It's like, you know, at the round that time, like 92, 93, you got ECW as well. Eastern championship wrestling and Eastern started, you know, starting up and, you know, you're making a name and stuff like that and get like a lot of older wrestlers and stuff like that. You know, Terry Funk and all those dudes. Um,
01:11:39
Speaker
And then you could say like, he may have taken a lot of stuff from ECW too, as far as, you know, they were all taken from ECW pretty much. They all, they all were WWF was yeah. They, they took the WCW took the illusion doors from, Oh man. Yeah. They, they did have like that connection with, you know, with, uh, with,
01:12:00
Speaker
Uh, yeah, triple a and, you know, and with, uh, you know, new Japan and all that stuff. And, you know, so they had those connections, but yeah, as far as the new lucha doors go, yeah, that they definitely, you know, famous stereo psychosis. They were all in ECW. And then, you know, which by the way, we need, we need a good psychosis figure. Oh yeah. Definitely. Let's get, let's, let's make that happen. Steve.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yeah. So this episode, obviously, you know, it goes through the, you know, the curtain call, you know, with, you know, when, uh, you know, Kevin Ashton, Scott Hall were leaving. He had the, uh, you know, the big hugging session between him, Triple H, Sean Michaels at the end of that show, the click. And then obviously they say that killed kayfabe and all that stuff. So, so
01:12:46
Speaker
This is the part where I have to explain what they did before you get into it Did they talk about did Vincent man didn't really talk of this episode that much only really what the? Came up they had his thoughts on yeah But other this stuff like the WCW stuff the you're right all they didn't really get his Take on he probably give a shit
01:13:15
Speaker
Uh, so, you know, my wife was watching it with me. And so I'm having to explain, like, so when we talk about, like, you know, this is not for us, you know, yeah, it's for the masses, for the masses. So my, my, my wife is a part of the mass is probably, well, she doesn't know this stuff. So I'm explaining what K favors. I'm just trying to do like, I just get her to realize what's happening. And so she's like, well, what if this is a workout? Like,
01:13:43
Speaker
Uh, like she like starts kind of spiraling with it. I don't like, I mean, that's a good point. You know, that's what we do. When you're a wrestling fan, everything's a word. I thought that was funny, but, uh, you know, it was, it's, uh, this is a particular interesting episode for me to
01:14:03
Speaker
watch with her because she's like understanding the whole screw job situation and just was it a work. Yeah. It wasn't fake. So people, I mean, I think it was so real dude. I don't think it was fucking fake at all. Um, but I mean,
01:14:18
Speaker
there's really not much to talk. I mean, we could definitely talk about the, uh, the comments and stuff from Vincent, Brad Hart on that. But yeah, I mean, the current call happens. Triple H gets the fucking shit out of the stick. Um, pretty much. Um, luckily one, uh, six POC or one, two, three kid was not in attendance because he probably would have been the one
01:14:38
Speaker
to get that. I think I think he would have been the scapegoat. Yeah. Um, if he was in that, that session, I don't know. I forget why he wasn't there. Was he injured? He was injured. Yeah. He was injured. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, he wasn't injured. He just got busted with a wellness policy violation.
01:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. So he wasn't yeah, I think I still think like if he was And one thing one thing people have heard because i've heard this from shawl waltman and I shawl waltman is A great human being by the way if you ever get a chance to meet him. He's awesome And I and I believe what he says One thing they don't talk about and then people don't talk about in general shawl waltman has brought this up shawl waltman was a catalyst that got scott hall and kevin ash to start seeking
01:15:26
Speaker
those deals with WCW because Sean Waltman was the, his agent was, uh, Barry, um, Horowitz. No, not very hard. I can't think of his name right now. Barry something anyways, but he was kind of known to be dealing like to making, you know, big deals with wrestlers and stuff like that. Um, and he's the one that starts seeking out that deal for him with WCW.
01:15:54
Speaker
And I think maybe Bischoff says, you know, well, okay, if I could get show all my, can I get maybe some other guys? That's what they start kind of probing. So I think what we kind of thinks that, you know, this whole, the whole wellness violation was also really a punishment for seeking all these deals. That was his way of having a punishment. So, uh, I, you know, I find it pretty interesting.
01:16:22
Speaker
So what was really the catalyst of everything kind of funny. Yeah, it's kind of funny that he
01:16:30
Speaker
And then sick man anyway, you know did this to the territories back in the 80s, but then when it's done to him so That's another thing about my wife brings up. She's like, well, okay, so he's sitting back and like okay, so he did all this in the 80s and now it's getting done to him like so What are you gonna do? You know, so
01:16:54
Speaker
The problem, the problem with WCW and like, we can get into all that. So it can be a whole nother product for us, but one of the big problems with WCW is they don't create new stars except for Bill Goldberg, of course. Yeah, that's pretty much it. They try it. Goldberg, Jericho, and you got Goldberg, Jericho, Mysterio, Booker T and pretty much. Yeah. And page diamond Dallas page. Those are the guys that they created. Yeah. Maybe like I said, they try with David flair and stuff like that.
01:17:21
Speaker
Uh, they tried with, uh, the master P and the no limit soldier. Oh, don't, don't even pick up my boy master P like the demon. They tried to as well. The kiss demon. What was his name? Um, yeah. Yeah. They'll deal toward work. How was his name? Uh, the, uh, border combat characters, uh, mortise and glacier. Yeah. Glacier. Oh, I saw something recently. Mortis.
01:17:48
Speaker
actually had a tryout match. Yeah. Yeah. That pop up recently. I was like, whoa. Yeah. This. Oh yeah. If anyone doesn't know WWE on their YouTube channel has a, like a WWE vault channel where you could watch, like they just, they started to upload like shit that you've never seen before. Like you didn't know existed. You're like, holy shit. But yeah, I'm glad they started to do that type of stuff.
01:18:11
Speaker
I see that floating around a lot on that video. He did have a triode. I mean, obviously he didn't. He wasn't in it, but he wasn't straight enough, I believe. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Who's better than Canyon? It was sick. I was a fan of Canyon, but anyway,
01:18:38
Speaker
uh yeah current call happens blah blah blah all that shit wcw is killing wwf um then you know everyone's leaving you know um someone you know we talked about at the beginning bread heart being that you know that beacon that main champion for wwf that clean slate
01:18:56
Speaker
Um, you know, he's kind of getting, you know, he's getting frustrated. He wants more money. He's getting ready to leave. And, um, you know, if you're a wrestling fan, you know, the Montreal screw job and everything that happened, you know, he wanted to, well, the story's convoluted in a sense where, you know, we don't know if, you know, he said he was going to drop it the next night on Monday Night Raw. Vince McMahon didn't trust him.
01:19:22
Speaker
He thought he was just going to take the title and, you know, run with it and show up on WCW with it. I don't think Bret Hart would have done that. I think he, you know, I mean, I don't know him personally, but he seems like he's a man of his word. And I don't think he would have ran to WCW and you know, you know, he seemed, I mean, if you, you know, Bret Hart, you're a fan of Bret Hart, you know, he's professional wrestling fucking by the book.
01:19:49
Speaker
like perfects his craft like in rank outside the ring like like he's he is wrestling he is professional wrestling like you know and if you get if i'm gonna believe one person and say like they tell me hey i thought i would never do that to this title i would never disgrace this title i will i will clearly i will drop it to you i will drop it the next night i just don't want to do it in my hometown can we can we you know can we just shake on that or whatever obviously that didn't happen
01:20:19
Speaker
Vince McMahon takes matters into his own hands, does a Montreal screw job. Um, doesn't want it. Obviously Brett, I was like, I don't want to do it in Montreal. Please don't make me do it there. I'll do it the next night. No problem.
01:20:31
Speaker
Why do you think you, why do you think Vince McMahon did not trust him? Was it because of everyone jumping ship to WCW kind of like fucking scared that, you know, it was going to happen. But why wouldn't he trust because he, he, he would, I mean, he, I think he saw what was going on. He saw the right on the wall and it was like, this is what I did 20 years ago or whatever it was. Uh, I guess it was like 15 years ago, but yeah, at the time, uh, you know, and it's like,
01:21:01
Speaker
I can't let that happen. You know, and, but I mean, just imagine, of course, you know, then you also have, let's go, let's go before all of this happens. Uh, year prior Medusa shows up on, uh, WCW television with the women WWF women's title, throws it into the trash can. And, you know, uh, you know, and Eric, you know, again, I have to give him credit. Like he has great ideas at the time of, especially of.
01:21:32
Speaker
you know, like, Oh, don't, you don't have to watch that stuff because you got, you know, Sean Michaels does a karate kick to, to, to beat gold dust. So you don't even have to watch that tonight. Just stay tuned to nitro, you know, and things like that. So, uh, you know, it's, it's a, it's a genius idea.
01:21:51
Speaker
Uh, you know, to, you know, figure out what's going on, you know, to tell people what's going on. So they stick and watch a nitro. Uh, and of course, you know, you know, of course the start of the NWO all that stuff, but I think, you know, Vince is scared, you know, I mean, and I think he had a good reason to be, uh, you know, I, over the years as I've, as I've,
01:22:20
Speaker
you know, when, I guess whenever the first heard about the screw job, I'm like, yeah, screw Brett, you know, you're, you're leaving. Get out of here. You know, yeah, fine. You know, you know, you're leaving, you know, that's, that's, you know, that's not how you do things. You know, you hear that narrative, but then you, when you hear Brett's point of view of things and I think the biggest thing that documentary that sit down between Sean and Brett,
01:22:46
Speaker
than they did what, uh, maybe like 15 years ago or something. Yeah. Yeah. With, uh, Jim Ross leading it, you hear things and it's like, man, I think, uh, my, my, my, um, my attitude has changed on the situation and where it's like, I think Brett was right in this situation. You know, uh, and I guess that'll be a never ending battle.
01:23:14
Speaker
But Brad has to look out for himself at the end of the day, especially when you have in your contract, you have creative control. I mean, he could have sued Vince for breach of contract right there. He could have. Yeah. And that, that goes to show you another side of his character that he didn't do that. He's not a bad, like it seems like he's not a bad dude. Like, why would you not trust him?
01:23:39
Speaker
That's why, that's why I appreciate Brett, especially nowadays. No matter if people are always so bitter and I've talked about this all the time, but man, he tells it like it is. And you need that. We need that now. Yeah. You need that. Like, because people are so, such full of shit that they're looking out for themselves. But Brett is just a standup guy and he's going to tell it as he sees it. It may be, it may not be correct.
01:24:05
Speaker
but he's definitely not lying, you know, it's correct to him and that's what matters, you know, in the situation. So I think there will always be heat between him and Brett of Vincent Brett. Yeah. Um, especially, I guess, you know, we can get into, I guess the whole heart.
01:24:26
Speaker
tragedies as well. So yeah, I mean, he obviously, you know, after the Montreal screw job, they have that. Oh, yeah, we can get it to the attitude here too. I'm sorry. He knocks him out. He, you know, he, he, you know, Vince McMahon goes back there after ballsy enough of Vince McMahon to go back and, you know,
01:24:43
Speaker
try to apologize, I guess, or the fucking would do that. And that's the thing about that. This is one thing that I was surprised about is you always heard of like Vince saying like, Oh, I gave him a shot. It gave him a shot. Yeah. You know, but apparently that's not how it went down. And, and, and I'd always heard that, but yeah, I always heard like Brett was like in the shower and, uh, you know, he was like, Hey, what are you doing with this? Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah. Well, well, I think, you know, Brett was in the shower and he was just trying to talk to Brett. Yeah. Brett was like, if you don't get the out of here by the time I'm done with this, kicking your ass. And that never happened, I guess. And, and so, yeah, he never, he never left. And
01:25:31
Speaker
Yes. Apparently, Brett dries off, puts a towel around his waist and they go to blows. Yeah. They start to scuffle a little bit. He said they've locked up. Like he said, they, on the documentary said they walked up sort of like how you wouldn't wrestle it. He said, he fucking snuck uppercut in there. It was just perfect. Um, one of the things we did.
01:25:52
Speaker
didn't point out was that that earlier list that we see that we that we talked about that who was going to be on the documentary. It said Undertaker wasn't on it. He was on it on the whole thing. Yeah. And he gave his sentiments on that. He said he he was against it, dude. He hated the fact that they did that to Brett, dude. Like he was, you know,
01:26:15
Speaker
that shouldn't have been done. And when he would, they knew what it was when they were so like, you know, clear the, you know, Vince is coming clear the locker rooms. So they're clear like, I guess obviously they're all share a locker room. So like when Sean's they're all getting changed and shit like that. When they say, Hey, clear the locker room. I think they all know it's hit the bricks pal. It's like, yo, Vince is coming in. He's, he's going to talk to Brett. I think they all do like,
01:26:41
Speaker
Scuffle was going to happen. Something was going to happen to some physical altercation. And I don't think they wanted, I think the wrestlers knew like to stay out of it. Just like, just let it happen. Just so they would show that the famous team from a wrestling with shadows where it's you, you, you're going to live with this at the time. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah. That, and then also we're Brett's he's like undoing his boots and he's like, he's asked Sean, he goes, did you have anything to do with that Sean?
01:27:09
Speaker
And you can hear Sean, I swear to God, I didn't, I didn't hear it. I had no clue. It's just like, I don't know if he did that triple say he knew, I think. Oh, he 100% knew because triple H is the one that says he's famously for saying, you know, if, if he doesn't want to do business, then fuck him. We'll do business for him. Yeah, that's right. And they've always, they've always said that line that always use it. They've used that in like,
01:27:39
Speaker
I think video games before and, you know, comic books and, you know, things like that. Like, you know, we're triple H just saying, you know, they're like retelling the screw job. Yeah. Those kinds of forms. Cause I've seen it before in different aspects and it's a pretty famous line at this point. And so, yeah, triple H is definitely new.
01:28:00
Speaker
Oh, I wonder if that was a way for him to get back into Vince's good graces after the whole like, well, sick thing and all that stuff. And I think obviously, you know, the generation X is going to start pretty much forming. He wins the king of the ring that, that, in that after the year that he was supposed to win. Right. Right. But before, before the screw job, the screw job occurs in November.
01:28:27
Speaker
And he wins it in June. He also has, you know, that, that get few with Mick Foley mankind. And then, and of course, you know, then degeneration X happens. Yeah. I think, um,
01:28:40
Speaker
I mean, I think it definitely helped for sure. Cause then if you look going into the spring after WrestleMania 14 and he starts running DX, but he's given the ball, you know, like he says, uh, in the, in that promo. So, uh, I think, you know, do you think Sean? Oh yeah. Sean, Sean, a hundred percent new. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it was a thing where like Sean had to know because he he's the one that had to put the surf sheet on. That's true.
01:29:13
Speaker
I think, I think Sean knew of course, Earl Hoeppner knew, I think Gerald Briscoe knew Pat Patterson knew Vince knew of course triple H and Sean. I think that's, those are the only people that knew what was going on. I don't even think Pritchard knew I'm undertaker. Didn't know Foley. I know Foley Foley almost quit.
01:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, they were all pretty much on Bret Hart's side. He almost quit. I mean, the sentiment was like, that's not how the business is supposed to be run. Like you're supposed to at least come to an agreement, you know, especially with something like that. It's like you had this guy carrying a title, being your, you know, face of the company for so long and you just got to treat him like that because he, you know, you gave him the blessing to go
01:30:04
Speaker
to WCW, but in your mind, you're like, you have this weird thing where it's like, Oh my God, he's going to fucking take the title with him and deface it or some shit like that. But I honestly think Brett would have, like you said, I would, I'll drop it the next night on raw and then you'll never see me again. Like I think he would have, I don't think he would have taken the title to fucking WCW. I don't think he, he, he, I don't want to, I don't want to say like,
01:30:31
Speaker
Even even Vince McMahon once said like Bret Hart was a true was the true like WWF champion. Like he looked. He looked at Bret Hart as like that's what a champion looks like.
01:30:44
Speaker
Do you remember, do you remember him saying that or no? Yeah. He's like, he's like, when he looked at Bret Hart, they're like, that's what he's seen as a champion. Like, like, you know, clean cut, you know, right. Wore the belt as, as it was like an actual, not a prop. Like it was an actual championship that he was there to represent. And I think, I think Brett has
01:31:05
Speaker
more to do with growing the business internationally than I would say than the Hulk Hogan did. You're probably right about that. You know, I mean, like those fans in Europe and even into like, like, like I know they wrestle a lot in South Africa, wrestle a good bit in Australia. Like they're starting to expand over there. Yeah. But like those European tours, like Brett was over. Yeah. Huge. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. You got to think it's family, obviously the family name.
01:31:35
Speaker
A lot of wrestlers from all over the world fought in stampede wrestling too. So like, yeah, no, you're probably right. He probably was like a big part of that, you know, international appeal for the WWF at the time. But yeah, so I mean, screw job happens, obviously, controversy continues for a more, this is more internal controversy, not so much external controversy.
McMahon's Character vs. Businessman
01:31:58
Speaker
Right.
01:31:59
Speaker
But, but it's important to talk about because it's, is he, you know, like, like the poster says, is he a mad man? He's pulling the strings. You know, for me, if we're going to grade it so far, um,
01:32:13
Speaker
Every episode up until episode four, which is, I mean, this is the attitude episode, which we're going to talk about now. It's him. It's not Mr. McMahon. It's him acting on his own accordance. Right now he is Vince McMahon, the business owner making decisions for his company. The attitude is where we're going to start going, okay,
01:32:38
Speaker
Is it Mr. McMahon, the character or is it, but up until now it's, it's I'm saving my fucking company. Well, and it's because of the screw job. The screw job is the birth of the Vince McMahon character, the TV pretty much. Yeah. You know, I mean, he's, he's making appearances a little bit here and there as, as like the owner. Like you remember before that, but too much before prior to this, that's when stone cold
01:33:02
Speaker
hits the stunner on him for the first time. And he's like the owner of the company. They actually say, Oh, he's the owner of the company. But then then the screw job happens and you're like, Whoa. And then it's Brett screws, Brett interview and the birth of attitude. So I think he's still, I think on that episode too, before we close that out, he did say he still, you know, holds that same sentiment. It's basically just like, you know,
01:33:31
Speaker
I had to do what was best for, you know, the business, like my business, like, and Brett Hart was like, obviously, that was the best thing he's ever done in his career was this fucking dog, Vince McMahon out pretty much. That's the best punch he's ever thrown.
01:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, you know, obviously, super proud of it. But I guess that that leads us into the attitude error, which is episode four attitude. We don't have to dive much into this because you know, the story, blah, blah. I mean, they do talk extensively, extensively about, you know, the women.
01:34:07
Speaker
how they're treated, like mimicking what's happening at the time of the 90s, the Jerry Springer show, like you said, Sally Jessie Raphael, Ricky Lake, all those type of like, you know, talk show like trash television. They kind of taken that and putting it on.
01:34:24
Speaker
You know, WWF, uh, with the, you know, you're trying to get your intelligence salted that shit, which I have your intelligence. Yeah. So I guess, well, it started to get a little bit more edgy. Uh, obviously it's so cold, you know, flipping the bird and swearing and stuff on TV, you know, the rock.
01:34:42
Speaker
you get the nation domination, you know, pushing like the, you know, the racial angle. So they're pretty much like doing every they're reflecting. That's what wrestling does, right? It reflects. I mean, it reflects what's happening in the world. But obviously, you're not. It's not going political. It's not going religious. It's just taking those kind of like scenarios and throwing them in into the into the mix there. Back in the attitude era, they're literally taking
01:35:06
Speaker
said from the you know from the uh from the headlines and put it into wrestling so you knew what they were talking about it wasn't like there was no like guessing on what it was right you know the valve venus yeah like yeah we kind of skipped it but uh with the you know with with the gulf the gulf war yeah yeah yeah episode was it two i think it was two yeah yeah they talked about that with you know hulk ogan versus sergeant slaughter and the iraqi sympathizer and
01:35:34
Speaker
So they're kind of mimicking, but then that was seen as Sabu was like, what the fuck you doing? This is a real thing. Real people are dying. How are you translating this? So again, that goes to Vince McMahon's, you know, I'll say like, I don't. Maybe I'll get some heat for this. I don't really have a problem with that, honestly, like.
01:35:54
Speaker
what's the difference of you making a movie about, you know, um, about some, some type of warfare going on, you know, uh, between, you know, what's the, what's the difference between that, you know, a movie, I'm trying to think of a movie that would be that you would have, but I mean, you know, you can even go like, look at like movie world trade center, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, you, you know, it's telling real events what's happening, you know, but, uh,
01:36:23
Speaker
you know, it's still a movie. It's still adding drama to it. Um, yeah, I think that's what, what, what people have an issue with and with, uh, pro wrestling is like, when they see that they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, we can't do like real stuff. We got to do fake stuff. So
01:36:46
Speaker
um over the head to it was a crisp what episode is it crisp it was i think it's the last episode okay yeah okay yeah so yeah so i thought it was i was like did they skip it but no all right so yeah fourth episode they talk about the attitude hour they talk about how you know the ladies are treated during the attitude hour and stuff like that you know trish radis is on there she talks about you know
01:37:10
Speaker
Pretty much they did what they had to do. They talk about Sable. That's another scandal that pops up as well. Sable ends up leaving the company and then suing the company for allegations of abuse within the company and stuff like that. I think she won.
01:37:30
Speaker
They'll see. Uh, yeah. Uh, yes. They settled out or something like that. They settled out. And then, of course, you would come back. They come back to work for them, which is going crazy on its own, right? But, um, yeah. I mean, this is where they start. You know, the next episode is when they start talking about the family business and how the family gets involved. Shane, Stephanie, Linda. But before we leave Attitude, the Attitude episode, because we really don't have to dive deep into it.
01:37:56
Speaker
Main one, we get to actually hear from the horse's mouth about one incident, obviously on May 23rd, 1999, over the edge. Owen Hart, descending from the rafters and having a mishap on the way down. We actually get to hear from Vince McMahon, his thoughts on it.
01:38:23
Speaker
Yeah. Not the, not, not the, uh, not, not the best look. This is where the, this is where the gas lighting starts right here for
Owen Hart's Tragic Accident
01:38:32
Speaker
me. You know, Vince McMahon's gas light and everybody. Um, yeah, you know, and for me personally, like this whole incident, uh, you know, it, it affects me a little personally because over the edge, 1999, my birthday is May 24th.
01:38:54
Speaker
And one thing that my mom asked, all right, what do you want for your birthday? Of course. 13 about to return 13 year old, Bratted wrestling fan. I'm like, I want, you know, and you know, getting pay reviews was special back then. Like we didn't get them. I was like, can I, can we, can I get this wrestling pay review? Like, like I wanted that as my present wrestling gift. I mean, uh, one of my birthday gifts.
01:39:17
Speaker
So we did any, it was a whole ordeal. If you remember that paper views, you have to go to get the box, rent the box, and then you got to bring it home and you got to hook it up. And then you got to, then you pay for the thing. And then you go bring the box back on Monday. You know, it was, it was a whole big thing, you know? Um, uh, so we did it and you know, we're watching it and
01:39:43
Speaker
you know, they do, they show just like how they do it. You know, they, they do the cutaway and, you know, I'm just sitting there and, you know, remember just playing with my wrestling figures, you know, it's kind of mimicking what's going on, trying to build my cards, you know, whatever what's going on. And, uh, yeah. And, you know, they, you know, they, I remember everything, like it was like kind of a weird thing and they, they show the, the,
01:40:09
Speaker
The thing with Godfather and, um, and of course blueberries are slash Owen heart. And then they don't show the match and then it just goes to the next match. And he was like, well, what's going on here? And then that's, that's whenever, of course, the, you know, unfortunately Jim Ross has to announce. Yeah. Poor Jim Ross, man. Like,
01:40:34
Speaker
Yeah. Lola runs over. He's besides, uh, uh, Oh, right. And then, and then Jerry, the King Lola comes into the, yeah. Cause Lola runs over there to help the situation. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
01:40:51
Speaker
Now, one thing that apparently that they talk about is that it said that the wrestlers had to wrestle with like, there was like a blood stain on there. Yeah. So that that's, that's where, this is where, yeah, this is where the controversy comes in. Cause you know, this day and obviously, you know, the Sunday night heat was before over the edge gang grow was out there. Did the blood spot, you know, he doesn't used to do the blood spot. He drinks the blood. Does it triple H? Yeah. And then, and then they have the blood blood, blood bath as well.
01:41:22
Speaker
So I don't know. But one thing that did happen, I know for sure is some of the two by fours or four by fours that they have underneath there. Uh, some of them broke on impact and they didn't talk about this. Yeah. And if you watch because I, I, I did,
01:41:50
Speaker
When the Denver came out, I did go back and watch it. And I kind of kicked myself for tuning. Cause it was like, I was like, I didn't finish it, but all the way through, but, um, I've never gone back and watch it since then though. But if you watched in that corner, they never do any spots because they there's a, there's a gap in the, in the, in the flooring, you know, it's broken. So that, that, I mean, yeah, there may, the blood spot may be kind of.
01:42:21
Speaker
overhyped in some regard, but maybe there was maybe, maybe people were focused on the wrong spot. Maybe there was a spot in the ring. I don't know. I'd have to go back and look. I don't really want to, but, uh, I'd have to really like look and see, uh, maybe it's a different spot that people are talking about the one to put the, they, they show the, the, like the Hardy's touching the mat when after they get blood bath on. Yeah. Um, so I don't know.
01:42:51
Speaker
Regardless, I mean, you still had a man die in the ring. And the other thing too is, I mean, there was a clip that they show a clip about the rock walking through that. Um, you know, I mean, his match was over and he goes, he's like holding his shoulder or something like that. And he goes to like rest on it. But then he goes like kind of like pulls away real quick. Like he almost like, like he puts his hand on that red spot.
01:43:17
Speaker
I'm not sure if you remember that but he's like I don't leave in the ring and he goes like this and he just kind of like jumps away real quick brings his arm back up and it kind of like walks off I think there was blood there dude I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'll be I'll just say it I don't think it was I mean there's probably blood baths up there but I think I think I think
01:43:37
Speaker
I think his blood was in the ring. Yeah. You don't hit that hard from that height. And there's no blood that comes out. Right. Right. Because I've heard of, of how, you know, like Jeff Jared, God, God bless Jeff Jared, you know, and you know, he had to see all that, you know, as he was best friend, go through all that. But, you know, he saw, he saw what, what Owen looked like. And yeah, he,
01:44:02
Speaker
There was something, there had to be something in there. Yeah. Even so, even though there's absolutely nothing. Again, you had one of your, your, your teammates, one of your friends, you know, yeah, that died in the ring like that. You know, it's just, yeah. Like I said, you get so, I mean, like I said about it, I don't know. I don't study any type of, you know, you know,
01:44:26
Speaker
like falls and deaths and you know, I'm not a, I'm not that type of person, but I would imagine if you fall from that height and you hit that hard, there has to be bloodshed. I mean, you can fall and hit your head on the ground and get a cut and your head will bleed. Like imagine falling from that height and doing that. So I think there was blood, uh, which leads me to the next comments from everybody saying it wasn't obviously Bruce Richards on there saying,
01:44:52
Speaker
That was blood from earlier. That wasn't any of Owen's blood. Chris Richard. Should we just jump to the Vince McMahon comments? Yes. What are your thoughts on what he said about him continuing the show? It's just cold-hearted. It's cold-hearted. How he would be in that situation if it happened to him. It's cold-hearted, man.
01:45:22
Speaker
You can't, you can't say what you would do in one situation in hindsight, especially in hindsight and be like, well, if it was me, let's just do it. You have, you have to have some shred of empathy. You know, it just, I think this, this, this is where you start seeing this blending of the, the Mr. McMahon character into who the real person is.
01:45:51
Speaker
He's just cold, heartless, doesn't have empathy, you know? And of course you hear your other stories where he's helped other people out, you know? Yeah, of course. Yeah. He's a figure and all that. Yeah. Yeah. But this is, this is where the blending of the two occur for me. And, um,
01:46:14
Speaker
And even to this day, as he's talking about what's happening, you know, then he's, he talks about that, you know, it's a, it was an accident, um, that the, uh, the rigging company messed up and, you know, they had faulty equipment and they, they sue the, the,
01:46:32
Speaker
which I didn't know this, that they sued the company and they won years later. Of course, Martha Hart sues WWF, WWE at the time, um, as well too. And of course she wins, but she has, uh, some, some things to say as well. Martha Hart does. Yeah, she does. Uh, she talks about the Netflix, Mr. McMahon documentary portrays the death of my husband, Owen Hart as a mere accident. It allows,
01:47:00
Speaker
It also allows the disgraced former owner and CEO of World Wrestling Entertainment, Vince McMahon, to claim that Owen's death wasn't our fault. Nothing could be further from the truth. The real truth is that on May 3rd, 1999, out of desire to cut costs and achieve a quick release effect that a rigging expert specifically warned against, WWE hired unqualified riggers to arrange a stunt in which Owen was to repel from the rafters.
01:47:27
Speaker
During the rest, a resting event, as a result, the rigors use in incorrect equipment that caused Owen to fall to his death. It was pure negligence that killed my husband. Uh, you know, so it's, she's, she's saying like, she's still fighting for, for Owen, which I appreciate. And I have, I take a lot of offense to the fact that people
01:47:53
Speaker
just kind of go after a little bit, especially now, you know, that she's, you know, with AEW and you know, AEW is using the rights. So I mean, yes, is it what we want to, you know, we want to remember Owen as in his WWF days. Most of us never really knew him in the new Japan days. I get that. But man, at least we get like something of Owen nowadays, you know, because for as long as it was nothing.
01:48:22
Speaker
Yeah. And, and I, I especially love that, you know, Nick now that they're using the Owen Hart cup as a way to further storylines, you know, you know, the winner goes receives a title match at all in now. And I think that's very important, but
01:48:40
Speaker
At least we get something of Owen nowadays. In that situation too, it sucks because his career was in WWE. I'm not saying he can't be highlighted anywhere else, but
01:48:57
Speaker
It's kind of hard to do that when all the footage of him isn't WWE. Most of his works are in WWE. Obviously he was a new Japan and stampede, but his way he kind of like broke through was WWE. Right. And it kind of sinks that will, I mean, we may never get the, he may never get that, uh, the kind of adulation that he should be getting, you know,
01:49:22
Speaker
the reverence he should get for, you know, his, you know, work in the WWE and stuff like that. So, but yeah, I mean, as far as it's like, man, you know, saying like, I w that was me, I'm, you know, the show should still go on. Yeah. I mean, you, yeah, you're Vince McMahon. I believe he, I believe that for, you know, when he said that, I believe he would, you know, put that in, Hey, if something happens to me, the show goes on. Don't stop it. Um, but the other side of that too, is I don't think.
01:49:53
Speaker
Uh, you know, even when he said he was Brett Howard was like, it was my, if it was, it was Shane, he would have went on. He would have continued it. Right. And I think we know that for a fact because he almost stops the match against Kurt angle. Yeah. That, that real bloodbath match with Kurt, Kurt angle, he almost stops that match. Yeah, exactly.
01:50:16
Speaker
So it's like, I mean, you could say, you know, if it was me, I would, I would continue it, but yeah, he wouldn't imagine a lot of kids to go. Imagine work where you work. Okay. Imagine where you work.
01:50:28
Speaker
wherever you work. And imagine, you know, your general manager or wherever you work at, you know, there's, there's, there's an unfortunate death where you work at. Okay. And he tells everybody, okay, just don't look over here. Just don't go over here. Just keep working though. Like that wouldn't fly today. I don't, I don't even think that would fly in 1999, but it just flew into the radar. I guess, you know,
01:50:59
Speaker
Uh, I don't know. Uh, it's, it's just kind of disgusting. Um, portion, but, um, yeah.
WWE's Business Decisions and Challenges
01:51:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like I said, just, you know, his sentiments on it, like, you know, show must go on that type of thing. You heard it straight from the guy's mouth. I mean, you kind of, before that you just heard like, you know, that's how Vince would want it. Show must go on. But now.
01:51:23
Speaker
you actually get to hear him kind of say it. Like, you know, you heard it straight from him. He was continuing that show no matter what. He didn't give a shit. Which, you know, goes through his, you know, again, is it a character judging from that decision? No.
01:51:44
Speaker
ruthless businessman in real life. That's what he pretty much seems like. Um, and then I'll think of the, is it the next episode where they talk about, um, no Shane and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They talk about Shane and this is the next episode episode five. Um, that's called family business. And they talk about, you know, they go public with the New York socket change. You have to go through that. Um, they ended up buying WCW.
01:52:13
Speaker
Eventually XFL debuts, uh, very rather quickly and then goes away rather quickly. Um, they lose the, they have a, um, Hey loss or they don't have a lawsuit, but the WWF world wildlife fund, you know, files a lawsuit against the WWF or a wrestling Federation for the use of the acronym. They don't fight it. They lose. So now they, you know, they drop the F and go with the WWE.
01:52:40
Speaker
get the F out, baby. Yeah, get the F out. So they have the promotion, get the F out and all that stuff. Obviously, the ruthless aggression era is happening. They're looking for new stars and stuff like that. And obviously, you know, the rocks kind of on his way out, some colds on his way out. So they're looking for that, like, you know, new stars, John Cena, blah, blah, blah. But
01:53:02
Speaker
Brought me to this episode, it was mainly about Shane and his relationship with Vince McMahon. And this brings us back to episode one with Vince and his father and the way Vince's father treated him. Basically just like a second-class citizen, you get to earn my love.
01:53:20
Speaker
and not really earning love, just earning, I don't know, space to be around him, I guess. I don't know. This episode kind of highlights the, from my own interpretation, is the amount of stuff that Shane would go through to get just a
01:53:46
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you from his dad. Pretty much like something, just some type of adulation from his dad. You know, it takes it through like all the stuff, all the depth of finding things that Shane's done throughout his career in ring. Um, and it still, I mean, I think what was the, what was the final time that he actually hugged him? Was it after the, the undertake a match, right? Take a match, a hell of a cell match of Russell media. So he's,
01:54:12
Speaker
You know, by that time, two kids, family, man, the three kids, actually three kids, family, man, all that stuff finally gets a hug from his dad. But before that, nothing, no. No adulation, no signs of giving that company up to him. That was the other thing. Right. It was like Mr. Miller was not giving that company to anybody but himself. He was going to sell it to somebody. He wasn't not. He was not handing it. Well, he's basically going to do the same thing as his father, not hand it out. Like you got to buy it for me.
01:54:40
Speaker
So this is a quote for Paul Heyman from here. This is all you need to say right here.
01:54:48
Speaker
Uh, during, uh, so Heyman stated that during a situation that occurred after disagreement, agreement over a creative idea and WWE events turned to Shane. And he said, not while I'm alive. Then all of a sudden Vince, he was eating something took his utensil and handed to Shane. And he says right there points his chest. Yeah. If you want, if you want this so bad, do something. Cause that's what you have to do to make that decision. And if you don't, then I know you're not named enough to do it. And I have to take that into consideration as well.
01:55:18
Speaker
If not, you could buy me out the way my, the way I bought out my father. And if I don't get out of your way, then get rid of me the way I would have done to my father when he wasn't doing things my way at all. Wow. See that's it. And then we bring it back to, like I said, break of the cycle. Like he was, you know, he,
01:55:39
Speaker
His mentality, we talk about our fathers and they're kind of getting into that, not being as cold as their parents were. I'm not sure if my grandfather wasn't alive when I was born, but maybe that was the case. And with Vince,
01:56:00
Speaker
just taking that same moniker as his father and applying it still, not trying to change any, it seemed, from what it seems like anyway, not trying to change the love for his, he probably loved his, I don't want to say he doesn't, he didn't love his kids, he probably loved his kids, but he didn't show it in the way that they needed, from what it seemed like anyway.
01:56:20
Speaker
And like you said, that thing that you just quoted right there with him saying, I know if you don't do it, you're not man enough to do it. So right there, he already made the decision, you're not cut for this. You're not going to be anywhere near this company at all. Maybe a sister will be like that, but then you find out later that
01:56:43
Speaker
She was almost there, but then things happen as far as, you know, allegations, things behind the scenes and she steps down and we'll talk about that too. But yeah, I just find it just a crazy dynamic. Just Shane being that like, you know, I just want my dad to appreciate me and nothing happens. That's like, that's almost sad. If you think about it as like a son, I mean, obviously we're sons.
01:57:07
Speaker
And just to think like, yo, your dad not acknowledging you at all, as far as like, you're doing all this crazy shit. You're jumping off of stuff. You're fucking, you're bleeding. You're taking chair shots to the head. You're doing all this, you're doing all this wild and crazy stuff. And then you, nothing, no, no sign of like any like, Hey son, you're doing great. Like he does it when he has two, three kids of his own.
01:57:33
Speaker
uh already gray haired three kids of his own wife his own family then he finally gives him a hug it's like what the fuck dude it's like dude your old kid like especially like especially him like he wanted to be like he said he i wanted to be like my dad i wanted to be just like he was my hero like all that type of stuff
01:57:57
Speaker
Uh, which every, you know, a lot of all sons are like, you want to be like your dad. You want to take, you know, things from heaven, you know, apply them to your life when you get older. Right. But Shane was, Shane was probably the first one to break the fucking cycle, dude. If you think about it, I know I'm not wanted. I'm going to go do my own thing. Right. The UFC thing. Yeah. We should buy the UFC. It's going to be huge. Ah, fuck that shit. I'm not doing that. It's not like wrestling. Like if these guys get injured, they're done.
01:58:27
Speaker
right he was right essentially they should have bought it because look at fucking ufc now imagine if he would have bought it how much more money he would have yeah it probably i mean if you were to let shane do it and not him take over i think it would have been a thing but yeah you know pay me for it or like getting put up the money for it it's like
01:58:51
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I can't I can't blame Vince for saying I get it. Yeah, I get it. I get it. You know, I guess, you know, for that that that portion, like, yeah, I'm not going to just give you something, but let's do the XFL and fucking that'll. Yes, yes, yes.
01:59:08
Speaker
where did that go? That money could have went to the fucking UFC purchase and you would have been fine. You would have been all set. One thing they don't talk about too. Vince was also close to at this time to buying the Minnesota Vikings as well. Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. Yeah. What was the reason why he did it? Uh, he may have gotten outfitted or something that maybe possibly, I don't know, but, um,
01:59:37
Speaker
I don't exactly know the details, but I think that was more of a catalyst of starting the XFL. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. And he's not even a football guy, which is weird to me, but you know, that's the part, the problem with the XFL too. I think
01:59:53
Speaker
He brought too much entertainment into the, to the sport. I guess, you know, the Minnesota Vikings and we make movies. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, but yeah, I mean, it's not, I mean, other than that, obviously you have a, you know, Stephanie also is in this episode and you know, they talk about, you know,
02:00:14
Speaker
her coming up and how she's kind of like, everyone that's on that episode, how she's kind of like a female version of Vince McMahon in a sense where she's built for the business. She's kind of cutthroat like he is in that sense. Not saying anything bad about Shane, but
02:00:35
Speaker
She seemed to be the heir to the throne, essentially, if if he was going to, you know, step down. But I mean, I don't think he was ever going to give the company to anybody. I think he was going to sell it. He was going to sell it either way, whether it be a family member or someone on the outside. He was not handing it over to anybody. I mean, I don't know about all. I've never met the guy, but I believe he would not just hand the company here. Here you go. No.
02:01:05
Speaker
I feel like you would have to buy it off of them. Right. And that's true. That's basically, that's basically what happened. You know, like triple agent, Stephanie, if they want to take over WWE, they would have had to come up with the money to buy it. Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, the way I think too over the last five years, maybe even 10 years, I think that's how I think.
02:01:25
Speaker
all wrestling fans kind of thought how, how it went down is over by dead body is basically how it, how it happened. You know, we thought, well, I guess we thought maybe Vince would still be involved and obviously he's not. Um, but, uh, do you want to get to the next episode?
02:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it last last episode finished the finished Rob Obviously we'll you know poor Shane McMahon we you know poor Stephanie in that sense. You're never gonna get the company It looks like anyway company goes public Obviously Shane McMahon leaves and pursues his own stuff. I'm not sure exactly what he did. I'm not too entirely sure but um
02:02:09
Speaker
They get into the finish, which is the last episode where they talk about obviously Donald Trump and him coming into the play. But they bring up somebody that hasn't been brought up since he did a bad deed, we'll say.
02:02:24
Speaker
Chris Benoit is a pretty much a focal point of this episode, which is obviously they talk about CTE as well.
CTE Impact on Wrestling
02:02:34
Speaker
One of our favorite superstars does not believe in it, which is which had a lot of people upset about. But I believe in it. Guy wasn't doing the job, Brad.
02:02:47
Speaker
He said that's what he said. He was like, if you got CTE or you had brain damage. I actually kind of see, I see stone gold's point actually in some regard. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if you're a boxer, yes. If you're a football player, yes. A hundred percent chance of probably getting CTE. If you're a wrestler, you probably shouldn't because the way it like it's, you know, it's choreographed. So like you shouldn't technically get, you know,
02:03:13
Speaker
those types of injuries, head injuries. So he is kind of right. But at the same time, I'm saying, I just don't believe in it. It's like, no, this studies. Yeah. Well, but I mean, you have, you have a lot of people to deny. I think, I think wrestling, you know, for, for Steve Austin's sake, you know, wrestling was starting to change a little bit where you're getting this more realism.
02:03:40
Speaker
Yeah. In the entering action, not to say that what SoCo did was, you know, it wasn't taking some crazy ass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that, but, but like, like instead of like taking the chair shots, you will, you have the chair shots, but on top of that, you have these more death defying moves.
02:04:00
Speaker
like the head, but off the top ropes, like the, um, there's, I remember there's one match and him and Jericho, he's doing the suicide dive and he, and he has that, that, uh, I don't know if it was a chair for was maybe it might've been a trashcan lid. I think it was trashcan lid, but it looked vicious. It just goes head first. Boom. Yeah.
02:04:23
Speaker
you know, suicide dives, you're taking more high risk. Uh, there's more high risk and you know, obviously stone cold is not a high risk guy. You know, he's not going to climb the top ropes, you know? Uh, so I think in that regard, like you look at, you know, back in my day, you know, kind of thing, uh, not trying to characterize stone cold as a boomer, so to speak, but, um, but you know, in, in stone colds, their weight, the way he was taught,
02:04:52
Speaker
You don't hurt the guy. And I think wrestling is still like that, you know, but, but you don't do these death defying moves that, that can maybe get you into a situation, but now there's more on the line. Now we got, okay. We've seen everything now. We got to do something different. Yeah.
02:05:10
Speaker
And that's when you have what, what Crispin wall gives and he does. And, you know, there's a lot of, I guess, lower that he idolized diamond dynamite kid. Yeah. Uh, who of course did this and did these moves. And I don't know, you know, as far as, yeah, can you fully blame CT? Yeah. I mean, obviously I think you can, but I think there's a part of this too. I mean, in summer guard.
02:05:39
Speaker
small part, very small part. Maybe the man was just kind of loony, you know? Yeah. And so, I mean, that's, you know, you got to take that into account, right? Yeah. So, cause I mean, look how many people who've had and had CTE, have they gone kill this, killed their family and killed themselves? Well,
02:06:04
Speaker
OK, my bad. Not his family, but I mean, his friends, he did. He killed. Yeah. Yeah, my bad. OK, I forgot about him. I'm laughing about that, but it's not. I mean, it's it's one of those things where like.
02:06:21
Speaker
It's a obviously CTE is a, you know, you have to, you know, I'm not sure how many concussions you have to have in order to get CTE, but that's where it comes from. It's basically like multiple concussions, multiple brain or head injuries can lead to CTE. It doesn't, you don't automatically get it right away. It has to be like compiled over. I'm not sure how many like years or, you know, whatever, however it is, but the amount of, you know, head trauma you get, um,
02:06:52
Speaker
can lead to CTE. There's x-rays and stuff like that that they have for multiple people from a normal brain to what a CTE brain looks like. I'm obviously not a doctor at all, but you can definitely tell visually
02:07:11
Speaker
There is a change from your, you know, your doable brain to a, you know, a concussion DTE brain. It's, it's, yeah, it's crazy. So, I mean, you can't tell me like doing that head, but night in and night out. Cause I mean, that was a regular move of his and he may have done it a couple of times a night. Yeah. You can't tell me to hit chair shots of the head. At some point he did damage to his brain.
02:07:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Over that amount of time, like it's, it's not going to happen right away, but over how many years of doing, you know, no matter how good he is. And I do, I do think he was a professional. I think he, you know, made it very believable. I think, you know, I think he he's definitely had this not happened. He would have been, you know,
02:08:00
Speaker
going down as one of the all time greats, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Um, he was like a technician in the ring. I was, I was a fan of his, you know, um, obviously not, you know, this, the stole stuff is not gonna, uh, really make me, uh, miss him much, should I say, but, um, but I,
02:08:25
Speaker
it goes more to, I think corporate responsibility. And this is where Vince, you know, he wants to be this corporate guy and it goes back also to this, the Jesse Ventura stuff. You got to take care of your people. Yeah. You know, you got it. You got to be able to, to, to have, have a human resource department that can say, Hey, I'm not doing so well. I need to take some time off.
02:08:53
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I need to have this, you know, if you're going to make me an employee, make me an employee, you know, but, uh, or make me, make me only work here, you know, at least give me some benefits. Yeah. When you have this corporate structure, all that corporate structure, all that stuff is very important.
02:09:11
Speaker
structure because you have to take care of people. And I think that's what WWE wasn't doing, which was the big shift into what we're kind of seeing now where they are taking care of people a lot better.
02:09:28
Speaker
And that comes down to leadership. It comes down to Vincent Van, not making the decision to go that route. I mean, he's as much to blame as, you know, when a company gets in trouble, they name the CEO. The CEO either like steps down or, you know, whatever that whatever the case may be, but it all comes down to him. He's a decision maker. And if he's not making those decisions to take care of his people,
02:09:51
Speaker
Um, obviously there's set up. I meant to say this earlier, but when we were talking like, you know, the union stuff, they're all contractors essentially set up as a site. And they're still like that today. Yeah. Which is, I mean, obviously I'm assuming now, maybe they,
02:10:06
Speaker
You know, with the new regime in place, there's a lot, there's a little bit of a different, you know, I know I remember seeing punk saying recently that there's a way to take time off if you need to, like, you just go on, like, like any other job, you go on a computer, you sign in and you. You got a Cronus, you go on your Cronus, go in your work, your workforce. You can obviously, you can tell like right now too, we'll kind of bring it a little bit forward. What will you see in punk and drew McIntyre? You haven't seen them since.
02:10:36
Speaker
Bad blood. Yeah. Good point. Head injuries. They can't be on TV. They can't be wrestling right now. Oh brother. They both took some crazy head shots. Now they have to take time off. They have to do the protocol. So like that's how it should have been back then. But
02:10:52
Speaker
I mean, in a lot of obviously, if you watch a lot of shoot interviews and stuff like that, for, you know, guys and gals that work for Vince McMahon, it was, it was nonstop. It was, you know, I'm injured. No, we have a, we have a tour coming up. He can't take any time off. He had to be on that tour. So it was, it was very taxing and, you know, not to give, you know, not to give Chris, but Marty leeway or anything like that. But, um, just to give you an idea of like, you know,
02:11:21
Speaker
what they're going through, definitely check out, watch any shoot interview when they talk about travel and working for the WWE in the amount of shows they had to do.
02:11:32
Speaker
And you can make your own conclusions to it. And obviously, they had Chris Nowinski on there, Harvard graduate Chris Nowinski, which is like one of the leading, I mean, he is the leading, one of the leading people with CTE, experts in CTE. Like you said, they end up bringing him back. When that happened, I think that's when the culture started.
02:11:58
Speaker
of like, you know, these head injuries are actually happening. They, you know, they had him come, you know, come in and do presentations about, you know, DTE and head injuries and, and being, you know, they should be checked after a match. They started wearing guardian caps.
02:12:12
Speaker
Yeah. Like you, you might have a great match, but Hey, what's it, what's it, what's a few, like, you know, 10 to 15 minutes of you sitting down with like one of the on-field doctors and checking out your eyesight and making sure you can, you know, how many fingers am I holding up that type of stuff? Like what, what was stopping that? They had to like wait until someone murdered their whole family to, to put that like kind of policy in place. It's crazy. It is crazy. And this is where gas lighting still occurs.
02:12:42
Speaker
So then there's a story that gets brought up too, which is ridiculous. So, you know, I were both at a WrestleMania 30 and we talked about this many times. Of course, this is the event where Undertaker, the streak has broken, right? Yes.
02:13:01
Speaker
Oh yes, we did. We did. This is the same episode or no? Yes. Yes. This is the same episode. So this is where the, cause they're talking about CTE and things like that. And you know, this is where they put their interview and undertaker and you know, he says, uh,
02:13:17
Speaker
you know, well, well, actually back up, you know, they said, you know, Vince could get given the interview and he's saying, you know, yeah. Um, you know, we, we told Mark, Mark Callaway undertaker, uh, that, you know, we, we made that decision, you know, the day off that, you know, Brock was going to go over. So we tell Mark and then, and then it cuts the undertaker, how he's, he's talking about, you know, in the match, you can five minutes into it. He,
02:13:40
Speaker
You know, he bumps his head and, and, you know, or something. And he, uh, gets, you know, concussion and he blacks out. He doesn't remember anything. And then he collapses when he gets in the, in the, uh, into a gorilla. Uh, and, uh, you know, Vince, of course, goes to the, uh, he actually stops what he's doing. Goes, you know, stops the show or not stops the show, stops what he's doing. He goes to the hospital.
02:14:07
Speaker
Um, and this is very interesting to me because Vince, the gaslight master says, Oh no, that wasn't, uh, it wasn't anything because of any type of injury. He had, I think he was in such shock that he would lose that he just forgot everything. So he remembers everything up until
02:14:34
Speaker
the supposed head injury, right? The alleged head injury or whatever the spot that occurred, but forgets everything else, including his own name in the hospital. Come on, Vince. We're not fucking stupid, buddy. That's that's that's the delusional Vince McMahon that we've seen that we saw that we've seen since the last 10 years. Yeah. And he, where he just thinks I'll just bullshit my way through this whole thing.
02:15:04
Speaker
And so we can, I can sell it. And that's basically where we're kind of at now. Right. I think so.
Loyalty to Vince McMahon and Federal Investigation
02:15:14
Speaker
Do you think, do you think I could take a heard that at all? That what he, uh, what, what Vince McMahon said about, oh, he was in such shock that he, uh, yeah, he was, he was a concussed, he wasn't, I don't know. I guess this is one,
02:15:34
Speaker
I guess, I don't, you know, a lot of people kind of been not, not because of the Trump stuff, but a lot of people kind of coming up after their taker here recently, because he's just like, I guess he's telling his way of the story. And oh, no, that's not how it went down. I don't know. The internet's going to be the internet, but I guess one issue that I have with taker
02:15:56
Speaker
is man, he is just so tied to whatever the company's doing or whatever Vince McMahon is doing. Like he's got such blind loyalty. And I guess if you're looking through this and like, how can you just have like blind loyalty to a man like this? I think, I think he's like, he looks at it and is just like, you know, that's Vince being Vince. Yeah. It's one of those, you know, father figures that a lot of people say that he was a father figure, father figure, pal.
02:16:25
Speaker
Yeah. Probably figured to everyone else except for, you know, Shane. Yeah. Not to say he wasn't a father to Shane, but what, you know, from Shane's like interviews and stuff like that on that, on this docu-series, seemed like he wasn't like, you know, he's always trying to vie for that, you know, love, but other people, the company was getting that love that he was waiting for.
02:16:55
Speaker
which is kind of crazy to think, yeah, the, the, uh, the unwielding loyalty to Vince McMahon. It's weird. It is. It is very strange. It is, uh, I mean, even, even, even Chris Stratus on there was like, you know, talking her shit. She wasn't really, you could, you could, you could, uh, appreciate a person, what they've done for you, but you don't have to be loyal to him, you know? Yeah.
02:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. Those things are mutually exclusive. Yeah. I mean, you're not, I mean, you're not going to be like so good. I mean, I'm not sure what's so cold and Vince's relationship is, but I mean, they didn't have the greatest relationship like behind the scenes. It seemed right towards the end of his star power and stuff like that. So I mean, the, the far, the, like I said, the father figure stuff is kind of,
02:17:45
Speaker
Like it kind of, it's off putting a little bit. Um, but obviously towards the end of this episode, they get into the, I mean, we've talked about it every all the time on raw down, uh, the Janelle Grant lawsuit against Vincent Kennedy McMahon with, uh, you know, sexual misconduct and trafficking is what.
02:18:09
Speaker
the allegations are. Um, and now it's a federal case. So, you know, it's in the, uh, it's in the government's hands right now. So that's serious. It's not an, it's not just some woman trying to, you know, trying to get some money, trying to come up on a, on a bag. What did they say? No, it's the federal government has other, uh, evidence of, uh, of his wrongdoing. They, they have paused her lawsuit and they are taking over. So
02:18:37
Speaker
That's when you know it's something serious. They actually have evidence. The federal government does not step in unless they actually have evidence on you and they're trying to find more. Yeah, so they get into that. He's not really interviewed as much. They do interview Bruce Prichard after the fact.
02:18:58
Speaker
I think he's the only one that shows up on that. I think everyone else is before because they, you know, they do this like last, you know, kind of like round up thing saying, is Vince McMahon a character or is he the real person? And like, you know, each person's like, they have to take like, you know, you know, he's you know, it's one of the I think they all pretty much said it's one of the same. You know, he is that on screen character. I think they all pretty much alluded to it or even said it. I don't think anyone said he wasn't that character.
02:19:27
Speaker
I think they all pretty much like anyone that was interviewed Stone Cold, Trish, except for Bruce Prichard, Trish. Bruce Prichard is just, yeah. So they interview him after the allegations and yeah, he was not, he was not a big fan of the docu-series after that. No, no. Like again, I understand being appreciative of somebody that gives you an opportunity. Yeah.
02:19:56
Speaker
But you don't have to, I've had terrible bosses in my day. He's not with the company anymore. So you just suck up to him at all. I've had terrible bosses that have given me opportunities and that have helped me get to where I'm at. But I hated the way they treated me. Yeah. And.
02:20:15
Speaker
I don't, I'm not, I'll never be loyal to them. You know, I can appreciate what, what the bosses have done for me, you know, because without them, I probably wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I'm at, but that doesn't mean I'm loyal to them. You know, you know, and that goes for anything in life. You don't have to be loyal to somebody because they give you an opportunity. Exactly. It's, it's what you do with that opportunity. Yep.
02:20:41
Speaker
and you have to take what you've done and give yourself a pat on the back. Especially Undertaker, you take Undertaker. Yes, Vince had the idea of the character of the Undertaker, but it was Mark Callaway that made the Undertaker the Undertaker. If you give that character to
02:21:08
Speaker
Kevin Nash, let's say, okay. You know, because he's a big guy, you know, those around there at that time, if you give it to Kevin Nash, he doesn't make it the undertaker. It's like, whoa, this is kind of weird, you know? And that character ends up becoming with something we laugh at becomes, you know, gobbledygooker or something like that, you know?
02:21:30
Speaker
Uh, but Mark Callaway took it serious and he was like, okay, this is my opportunity. And yes, Vince gave you that opportunity, but it doesn't mean you have to be loyal to him necessarily. Yeah, exactly. Did you, did you hear what he said to you, said about you at WrestleMania 30? Right. Right. You were just in shock that you lost. Like, come on, dude. Like,
02:21:51
Speaker
Not that, not to say that's the way he thinks about. A low McFly. Yeah, pretty much. Not to say that's his sentiment towards Undertaker and obviously they have a, you know, from the last ride docu-series. They do have a, you know, it seems like they have a very close relationship. Well, they had that, uh,
02:22:11
Speaker
I think it was a USC fight that was in Saudi Arabia. This was before the allegation. Yeah. They were together. Yeah. They were together. Yeah. And it was weird because Vince was like using the cane to walk. Yeah. He's a dead health at one point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, but, uh, uh,
02:22:31
Speaker
I don't know. They did ask him if he would ever retire. And he said, no, like if you, that's like, you know, if you retire, you die. So like, that was, that was his sentiment. Like if he ever retired, he would like, you know, people that retire, they start to break down and, you know, that's when everything kicks in. So maybe that, maybe that was his sentiment. That's why he never wanted to leave, you know, wrestling. He always wanted to work and move because he felt like he was going to die if he stopped working. But
02:23:02
Speaker
Um, I think, uh, you know, I mean, we said episode six, uh, which was named the finish. I don't think we, uh, I don't think I said that again, but I mean, it was, it literally is the finish. It's the, uh, it's pretty much like the, you know, they, you know, like I said, there's no really, not really, everyone was interviewed on this one. I think Bruce Pritchard, I think was the only one that was interviewed after the allegations.
02:23:28
Speaker
and he you know said you know about you know you guys suck pretty much like this documentary yeah i laughed at that part in like better terms why are you even talking to him then you know yeah um
02:23:45
Speaker
But yeah, obviously we know you know we know the allegations are out there against you know Vince Vince McMahon from Janelle Grant. We know the federal case a new case that just popped up was the rank boys. That's the new lawsuit that is filed against Vince and Kennedy Kennedy McMahon so
02:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's uh, I think that's a bad, the McMahon docu-series in a nutshell. Like I said, we're not going to go, we're not going to go through like every single aspect. And they just hit on the points of how, you know, is he, is he Mr. McMahon, the character, or is he, you know, is he that person in real life? And I mean, my own interpretation is
02:24:25
Speaker
I think what you see is what you get personally. That's my two cents. Not to be click-baity or try to be that person just trying to say anything crazy. I just think, like you said, J-Bone, you can do good things for people. That doesn't mean you're a good person at all.
02:24:48
Speaker
That could be, you know, the bad outweighs the good and vice versa. Right. So I think in this case, the bad outweighs the good in this sense. I think he did a lot of good for, I think he did a lot of good for a little amount of people. Yeah.
02:25:05
Speaker
And he did a lot of bad to a lot of people. So that's what I, that's what I think. I think, uh, not that, you know, I'm not a judge jury and executioner guy. I just think he's the same. I don't think Mr. McMahon is a character. I think, you know, like I said, the attitude, everything he did all there was him just living out.
02:25:24
Speaker
whatever fantasies he had. Like I said, we don't have to get into the Tristratus and make it out with everybody and all that type of stuff. I mean, he lived out his fantasies on TV. I mean, he knew he, he's a smart guy. Wouldn't like, if we all are for all kinds of man, a genius and what he's done with the wrestling business, you don't think he's a genius in the sense where, Hey,
02:25:48
Speaker
I'm a sick bastard. You know what? I want to show my perversions on TV and I could do that because it's my show and people will just think it's, it's a show. Right. That's not me in real life, but I could just live it out and do what I want to do.
02:26:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think overall, I think the documentary was fair. Actually, you know, we, because we had that statement before the document came out, like, Oh, there's editing tricks and things like that. He was trying to stop it. Don't forget about that. He said before it came out, I think it was, I think it was fair. And honestly, I don't think it necessarily for me, he didn't paint a bad, bad light.
02:26:26
Speaker
But again, I know about all of these things. So like, yeah, a lot of these things were shocking to me, I guess. There's a couple of things, but so it's like, yeah, I mean, yeah, I knew he was going into it. He's not a good person, you know? Yeah. So I don't think I had like any
02:26:48
Speaker
issues or reservations. I think like I said, I think it was fair overall. So yeah, I don't think it was a hit piece. Like everyone thinks it was, um, he was in it. If it was a hit piece, he wouldn't have been in it. They wouldn't have had his words at all in it. It would have been other people talking about him.
02:27:05
Speaker
And, and you know, like, so one guy that helped produce this was David Shoemaker from mass man show. Yes. And I think that like, he's like one of the most fair podcasters out there. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Like he, cause he taught, he literally, like he talks good things about AW bad things about AW, good things about WWE bad things about WWE. Like he's
02:27:27
Speaker
He's one that definitely calls it down the line. Yeah. That was another funny thing that, uh, Pritchard said, he's like, yeah, you got guys like Meltzer and shoe maker. Like
02:27:37
Speaker
the shoe maker. Yeah. I mean, you can't, you can't put Meltzer and shoemaker in the same box. I'm sorry. Um, yeah, that was it. That was actually pretty much the, uh, you know, honorable mention. Definitely. Uh, Dave Meltzer was actually really good on this docu-series. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
02:28:03
Speaker
And they reached out. I mean, you know, Dave Meltzer being on a docu-series about Visic Man with Visic Man, actually, too, which is kind of surreal as well. Like, would you ever see that? But they were friends at one point. I think they said that in the at the beginning, like in the early in the docu-series in the 80s and stuff like that. They, you know,
02:28:26
Speaker
He would write, obviously write stories about the WWF and be a part of that whole thing. And obviously they, you know, separated, they went, you know, separated ways and stuff like that. But, you know, you gotta give credit where credit is due as far as, you know, Dave Meltzer is concerned. I know he gets a lot of black nowadays because, you know,
02:28:46
Speaker
he does a lot of fanboying when it comes to AEW and all that stuff. But I mean, and he, like we talked about before, he prefers, he has a certain style of wrestling that he likes, right? And he, that AEW's given that, New Japan's given that. I mean, WWE might be doing it. He did give, you know,
02:29:07
Speaker
Uh, a five star recently to, to a WWE match. Was it true? I mean, he's, he's done it previously too with a Cody Cody and said AJ, uh, he did too as well. Yeah. Yeah. Cody and AJ. That's right. He started to warm up a little bit. Uh, but
02:29:26
Speaker
I mean, you have to admit through the products change and, and then, you know, yes, that's something. And when we watch rubble or wrestling oriented with the new product, we watch current day wrestling. It's definitely, and we always talk about it, right? You need reason number dot, dot, dot, dot. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's not in it, but yeah. Motor center machine guns debut a smack. That's one of the reasons right there. Oh, they're so tiny. Yeah.
02:29:55
Speaker
not to uh yeah not to you know you know knock on that at all but yeah i mean that would have been one of the there would have been something else if uh if you gave you but yeah i thought like i said i thought the docu-series is good like i said we do a lot of this stuff except for like me like i said i didn't really know about the ring boy um
02:30:14
Speaker
thing. Um, I heard rumors about it, but that they kind of actually brought it up on there. I said, Phil Mushnick wasn't bad on that docu-series as well. He was pretty bad with Piers Morgan. Yeah. He, he was a lot better. He looked a lot better on this, on the docu-series than he did with Piers Morgan. He looked very unorganized and wasn't ready for the, uh, wasn't ready for that. Cause he had to go back and forth with two, which
02:30:41
Speaker
bro, bro, bro. You weren't at the steroid symposium. I was there. You, I was there bro. No, no, no. I will call you bro. If I want to bro. That's funny. Um, yeah. So I mean, yeah, he has a, he has an enemy, a forever enemy and Phil Bush neck. No, that's never going to change. Um,
02:31:05
Speaker
But yeah, like I said, definitely a great documentary. Definitely check it out. It's still up. Um, obviously it's more, it's relevant now because of the new allegations that popped up with the, with the, um, the ring boys. Um, I'm assuming there's going to be more allegations that pop up as to how it is with these types of things, whether or not people want them, you know, in the public or not. Let's look at things as possible. You never know.
02:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, the second thing might pop up. I mean, you know, obviously with a lot of these, you know, a lot of these major companies and CEOs, you're starting to see step down. Yeah, that just happened recently. So it seems disconnected, but for some reason to me, it seems all connected because they're all being accused of the same thing, which is trafficking.
02:32:01
Speaker
uh which is kind of crazy which i think it's gonna i don't know i can't say that it might take down a lot of people that you know and love so just be prepared to uh be very upset be prepared to uh maybe delete a lot of your music catalog maybe get ready to delete uh a lot of your movies you purchase maybe or
02:32:23
Speaker
Cause we're bad boys for life. Yeah. Maybe get rid of your Blu-ray collection. Cause there may be some, you know, movie stars in there, but yeah, I think it's, it's not going to stop as it's going to be continuous. And it's good. It's good. We need to, as a society, we can't accept this anymore. Yeah. Just think that a lot, it took this long when, you know, you had, you know, a lot of child stars.
02:32:46
Speaker
um yeah and a lot of different people talking about this since i mean oh my god since i was like you know i mean since the 80s i mean maybe since the 90s i would say there's a lot of that stuff going you know a lot of people like talking about it but really not anything happens to it um but you know
02:33:06
Speaker
with the internet and social media and the way we get news and the way we get fed information, nothing stays hidden for long. Especially if there are people that were around back then, back in the 70s and 80s that are around these people and are part of these situations, then they still have access to social media or that type of stuff. There's still
Conclusion and Future Podcast Plans
02:33:29
Speaker
sores gonna get out soon.
02:33:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, this is just one of the many stories that are, that's happening right now. And obviously with Vince McMahon, like you said, we talked about Sean Combs, AKA Diddy. He's pretty much going through the same exact federal investigation, same exact reason as well. So that Johnson and Johnson. Yeah. It's crazy, man. It's a crazy times. And, uh, it's good. I'm glad we're here to report on it.
02:33:58
Speaker
We're the, we're the only ones besides, uh, uh, Piers Morgan, that'll actually documentary or events. I mean, I'm not sure if people just don't care about it or I don't know. It's weird. You don't really hear about it. Like it's like, no one's given feedback on anything. Uh, people stand like kind of quiet on it.
02:34:21
Speaker
But we're here to do it. We're here to report it, talk about it. See if Vince is a piece of shit or not. I gave my two cents. I think he's the same person. I don't think Vince McMahon is a character. I think Vince McMahon is who he is. He just got to live it out in front of everybody without anyone batting an eye to it and thinking it's all a part of the team. And it's just crazy times and shit like that. It's attitude error. Anything goes. Right.
02:34:49
Speaker
It was just a perfect time. The perfect storm. We'll say we have to do that stuff. Um, but yeah, any final thoughts for you on the, uh, Vince McMahon docu-series? So that's all I pretty much got. That's all I got.
02:35:04
Speaker
All right. Thank you all for joining us. I think this might be a two-parter. It might split us into two because it's a long answer. All right. Hell yeah. But yeah, definitely. Well, I'll do a two-parter maybe on this, the Mr. McMahon.
02:35:20
Speaker
So look out for, I think, obviously, hopefully I'm going to probably just release it this week. I know some other interviews, but I think this needs to be out out there in the in the open. Hopefully, hopefully when we get flagged by the Phelps is they listen to the episode and they they condone everything we say. Sorry, Sheena. Actually, I was on my best behavior. I didn't actually. We didn't go too crazy at all. I mean, we didn't.
02:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, we gave our sense. We didn't give we didn't get vulgar loot or anything like that I did I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't have any adult beverages. Yeah, I think we're pretty I think we're pretty clean with our With our takes on this. Yeah, so I think I think I think we'll let it slide okay, but uh Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely checked us out when it uh when it appears and uh You know
02:36:12
Speaker
That's it. I think that's a, and he, do you want to do any plugs in there or whatever? Well, check us out. Roll down every Tuesday, uh, to Patreon, uh, the number of town.com could check out me and Marco every Tuesday night. Um, you know, we, we, you know, we've dive into this kind of stuff every week. Yeah. You know, we've featured WWE stuff. Uh, we're the, we're the WWE show of the, of the world of the AWS marks. So yes.
02:36:43
Speaker
So yeah, come check us out at the, the terminal tab.com. Cause it is time to get raw and it's time to get down. And it's time for the number one source of all things WWE. But yeah, that's it. Like I said, yeah, this is basically just this, this episode is pretty much like a long form version of what we pretty much talk about week to week. Cause there's always
02:37:04
Speaker
Vince McMahon story that pops up pretty much every time we do the show. Whether or not we talk about it or not, sometimes at miniscule. This past week, obviously we talked about the the the Frank boys and stuff like that. So that was more current. So I figured, you know what, let's do this episode.
02:37:24
Speaker
Hope you enjoyed it. Obviously, definitely check me out, MVPMarco everywhere on social media, except for TikTok, it's MVPMarco underscore. Check out the Chick Foley show, chickfuly.com, where you get all the links to everything, to the show, to the Patreon. Definitely sign up for that. Check out Chick Foley show on X slash Twitter.
02:37:47
Speaker
to follow along as well if that's pretty much it i will uh i will catch you guys i'll catch your ass down the road hell yeah later