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The American Craftsman Podcast Ep. 51 | Solid Wood Vs. MDF
43 Plays4 years ago
On Episode 51 of The American Craftsman Podcast, hosted by Greene Street Joinery, we discuss why we choose solid wood over MDF.
10% off your order from Montana Brand Tools:
https://www.montanabrandtools.com/discount/AMERICANCRAFTSMAN
Beer of the Week (Magnify Brewing Staycation): https://www.magnifybrewing.com/our-beers
Tool of the Week: (Greene Street 8oz Glue Bottle Clip) https://www.greenestreetjoinery.com/product/8ozClip/4?cp=true&sa=true&sbp=false&q=false
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
Podcast Partnership Announcement
00:00:16
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a change
00:00:22
Speaker
The American Craftsman Podcast is proud to partner with Montana Brand Tools. The West was built by people with strength and great pride in their workmanship. It was a necessity that early settlers of Montana have a strong will, a resilient character, and great determination to tame the rugged landscape while adapting to its dramatic climate. That spirit made in the USA pride and craftsmanship is alive today, both in how Montana Brand Tools are manufactured and how they perform.
00:00:48
Speaker
Montana Brand Power Tool accessories are manufactured utilizing proprietary state-of-the-art CNC machining equipment and the highest quality materials available. Montana Brand tools are guaranteed for life to be free of defects in material and workmanship because we build these tools with pride and determination.
00:01:05
Speaker
Montana Brand Tools are manufactured by Rocky Mountain Twist, located in Ronin, Montana. Montana Brand's heritage comes from a long line of innovative power tool accessories.
Episode 51 Introduction
00:01:14
Speaker
Use coupon code American Craftsman for 10% off your order at MontanaBrandTools.com. Well, welcome episode 51. Yeah. The American Craftsman podcast. One away from a year. Yeah. Coming up episode 52, the one year anniversary. Yeah. My How Time Flies.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, and the unofficial two-year anniversary of Green Street, what do you know, is I guess today. Yeah. That's wild. Mm-hmm. We were probably working on one of those like myelin or something like that. Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
That wedding veil painted. Yes. Yes. That was the color. Twelve foot, twelve feet tall with a transom cabinet between. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's you know, what was that a Facebook reminder or just the photos? I got a thing. It's like you started a new job two years ago. That's wild. Owner operator at Green Street. Join me. Hey, the crickets back. I have so many crickets down here now. It's insane. Yeah. Sounds like they move closer.
00:02:23
Speaker
Well, you know, they want to get in on the action. Lou's going to come over and get rid of him. That's what I heard. You know, Lou, he was off on Friday golfing, of all things. Then he was off yesterday, Monday. Does he work anymore? Must be nice. Was he up in the Catskills?
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, we got a we got a pretty light one today guys. Yeah, we're gonna have a retrospective next week. Yeah
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, we just threw away all the old files. Yeah, I thought that was single, the old file. File, yeah. Everything was just compiled into one file. One folder, it was one folder. Yeah, 2019 to 2021. Hey, I'm looking for the EIN. Yeah, it's in the file. That was some system. Yeah.
00:03:35
Speaker
I have scraps of paper in there with measurements written on them. Oh, you know, I was wondering what the door, what size door, what was the size of the rail on the top left cabinet? Oh, it's in the file. Had we cut that plywood up, that's what I want to know.
00:03:54
Speaker
But the important stuff, like... Where's our EIN? Not to be found. Here's a receipt from RIVRA in Las Vegas. A paper receipt. Oh, God. Yeah. That was... I mean, it wasn't an eye opener because we knew it, but it was...
00:04:19
Speaker
It was quite a bit of reinforcement, wasn't it? When we went through our, our files. Yeah. Yeah. That was a, we straightened out our file folders a couple of weeks ago and it was, it was quite a show. Oh yeah. Yeah. What happened to the filing cabinet that left with the trailer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We pushed that thing into the trail. The entire filing cabinet full of basically nothing. Yeah. Oh man.
00:04:49
Speaker
Well, all this talking about DW is making me want a beer. Yeah. We got this week's beer in the week. We don't meet Coors Light. Definitely not. So this week we got a little beer called Staycation. Yeah, I like the sound of that. I could use a staycation. That's about the whole kind of cation we get. We don't even get one of those. That's called Sunday around here. Even then we're working.
00:05:19
Speaker
Get a little beer vision, 2.0. Staycation. So this is a beer by Magnify Brewing, which is a New Jersey brewery. Lemonade and iced tea sour. Now I have to admit that a couple weeks ago, I actually drank one of these.
00:05:40
Speaker
Brewed and canned in Fairfield, New Jersey by Magnify Brewing, LLC. Craft brewed in Fairfield, New Jersey. Sour ale brewed with lactose, lemon, and tea. 6% alcohol by volume. Let me see, I'm gonna get beer vision for the pour. This is where I wish I had my mouse. Whoop. Whoop. Here we go.
00:06:09
Speaker
I was thinking maybe we've got to come up with a new glass design for the second season. Yeah, that's not a bad idea. What about one of those glasses that are like the old fashioned kind of like conical, you know, and they flare up like a trumpet shape? Not like a champagne kind of glass. No, not like champagne, but because that's like a flute. Well, they have those like the 1920s kind of champagne glasses.
00:06:38
Speaker
Oh, so I'm thinking the one that kind of like comes up and then goes out like that And it has like a like a bowl at the bottom almost. Yeah. Yeah, like a tulip glass. Yeah. Yeah Like a snifter that flares out at the top. Yeah. Yeah, that's called a tulip glass. All right Well, oh we're still in beer vision
00:07:01
Speaker
We'll sleep at the wheel. There we go. Well, cheers. Yeah. Let's do the clink. Pour it nice and slow. Cheers to you guys. Yeah, I still got some. Yeah. Well, you were doing the camera and everything. That's interesting. Yeah. No slush punch.
00:07:30
Speaker
I mean, that's going to be hard to top. Yeah. It is good though. So maybe for our retrospective episode, we bring back our favorite beer, which is probably, because we have short memories too, is a slush punch. Yeah. I think there's one slush punch in there because I did drink one.
00:07:50
Speaker
Did it come as six? No, it came as four. Yeah. For the retrospective, we're going to have to drink all the beer that's in the fridge right now.
Beer of the Week & Season 2 Plans
00:07:58
Speaker
I hope not. That's going to be a good show. There's probably about 35 beers in there of all varying quality. Well, no, the quality is good. I still have yingling and yingling in there from Hunter's birthday party. Oh, wow. Yeah. But aside from that,
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of beer. It's actually, it's getting to the point where I can't fit much more. I have to have some kind of party. I'm going to have to go somewhere and have a party here that I don't have to attend. Yeah. Or maybe like you agree to go somewhere over one of these weekends and just show upward about, you know, a mixed case of beer. Yeah. But I'm not going to be going to any, any events where it's going to be more than like four people.
00:08:47
Speaker
That's okay. You know, you show up with 24 mixed beers. Here you go. Hope you got room for these. This is your problem now. That's like Tupperware. I had Tupperware that I, you know, if I have to bring something to someone's house and I'll just, I'll leave it. Yeah. Like they're like, Oh here, let me, no, no, no, you can, that's yours or you can just throw it away.
00:09:13
Speaker
I brought that so I don't have to worry about taking it home. You can see when we have people come over and she wants to get rid of everything. She'll, you know, she's like, Hey, Jeff, does Hunter have eat carrots? Cause I bought three bags of carrots.
00:09:33
Speaker
Carrots? No, he's allergic. You gotta learn to cut that stuff off at the first inkling that there's some kind of take home at the end of it. Well, it's funny, everything that she always offers, I already have a home anyway. So luckily I don't even have to lie. She's like, you need any lemons? I'm like, I got lemons. I'm like, my wife does the same thing you do. She buys too much shit and then it rots before we can use it. That's right.
00:09:59
Speaker
Carrots I got probably got six bags of carrots in the fridge of varying varying ages That's my wife sees any visitor Because she's but she buys too much stuff she'll go to Costco, you know and she'll buy like the guacamole But those big things of guacamole they go brown and it comes in a three Yeah
00:10:35
Speaker
She's like, Hunter likes guacamole. I'm like, you got to have it. You didn't answer faster. You have to be quick. You're caught on the spot. She set me up with a whole laundry detergent, the whole thing. It was like three different products. Oh, yeah. She's quite evangelical about laundry. She catches you and dries you. Someday she goes, I smell dryer. She's like, yep. I put about six of them in there when I dry my clothes.
00:10:56
Speaker
She did, she pawned some waggle molly off on me a couple times.
00:11:04
Speaker
She's anti-dryer. By the bouncing like the eight-inch tall box. It means I don't have to fold my clothes so quick. That's some funny stuff. Anyway, we got Tool of the Week. All right. Now do a little bit of shameless plug-in this week. Good. My Tool of the Week this week is this...
00:11:36
Speaker
I don't know unnamed product here. We never named it. Yeah, but this is a green street invention. Let me you can't even see it. Let me switch over to tool cam. That's what we need. We need we need another camera and that'll be tool cam.
00:11:51
Speaker
Now, you imagined and designed that. I mean, you brought that up out of thin air. Yeah. So if you're not watching, I better say what it is. This is an eight ounce bottle of Titebond and this is a 3D printed belt clip.
00:12:08
Speaker
So you can put this on your on your pants pocket, on your belt, on your tool belt, on your apron, whatever. You know, you could hook it. I've hooked it to like the the skinny aluminum rung on the ladder, like on the backside of a stepladder. So you want to take a look at it. You see it on the on the YouTube video. But this is 3D printed. I mean, I have the printer running, you know, right next door, another side of the basement.
00:12:34
Speaker
So, you take off the top, it goes over the collar, you tighten it back down. It's purposely low profile, so it doesn't become an encumbrance because you want to try and keep this slim form factor. That's why you use this small bottle. Now, we also have them for the 16-ounce bottles, which is a different design altogether, but same sort of idea. That one's a little bit bigger because the bottle's just bigger anyway.
00:13:05
Speaker
So the nice thing about this is you're up on a ladder or you're working doing a lot of small repetitive glue ups. You just hook this thing onto whatever you got. I hook this to the front of my apron or my back pocket or if I'm wearing tool bags or tool belt, I'll hook it on that.
00:13:26
Speaker
and it keeps it off of your work surface, where A, it's gonna be in the way, and B, you know, you lose track of, as stupid as it sounds, you lose track of this thing. That's what I was gonna say, when you're doing like, even like something like Domino's, where, you know, you're putting it down, picking it up, putting it down, picking it up, how many times do you knock over the stupid bottle when you put it on your work surface, or forget if you put it on the left, on the right,
00:13:53
Speaker
I like having that muscle memory. That's what I was about to say. Yeah. Like, you know, you're doing a glue up and, uh, you're gluing up something over here and this time you put your glue on, then you put it down here and you're doing this. And then the next time you put it over here and your look, you know, it's, if it's here.
00:14:09
Speaker
It's just glue back here. Glue back right to the same spot. So, you know, do you keep your pencil in the same spot? Do you keep your tape measure in the same spot? We do. Yeah, I mean, I think most people most people do, especially people who wear tool belts. I mean, all that stuff. If you're doing production trim, this is like, yeah, this is great. You know, Frank from Carpenter 13, he's a big fan of these. We've sold a lot of them. So, you know, people seem to like them.
3D Printed Tool Belt Clip
00:14:37
Speaker
It's a
00:14:38
Speaker
It's one of those things that you don't realize can help you until you have it and start to integrate it. Right. Man, I've been on tool cam the whole time.
00:14:49
Speaker
It's one of those things that I always wanted to myself, like, how come nobody else thought of this before we did? Because it just seems like such a natural thing. Like, how come glue bottles don't have belt clips? Right. Tape measures got a belt clip. Exactly. And most people don't even clip it to a belt. They put it into a pouch. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, you can find this on our website, greenstreetjoinery.com.
00:15:13
Speaker
We have a bunch of other 3D printed stuff and we're actually we're gearing up to try and get this on Amazon because you know, we want to get it in front of a good amount of people. Yeah, as many people as possible. Yeah. So try one out and tell your friends. Yeah, yeah. And if you got a good name, let us know what it is. That's it, a naming contest. The Green Street Glue Clip.
00:15:38
Speaker
And it's green. Green Street Green. Yeah, that's no accident. This is on Type-On 1. I don't like Type-On 1. This is just for demonstration purposes. Don't judge me. It looks nice on a Type-On 3. Because you got green and green. I use Type-On 1. Actually, I like Type-On 2, I think, is my favorite. Yeah, the blue one. Yeah. But I'll use Type-On 1 in a pinch. Yeah, try it out.
00:16:05
Speaker
but we recycle the bottles. That's it. You know, we buy it in a bigger gallon jug and fill up the little bottles. And for us in the shop, most times we're using the 16 ounce. Um, but for me on like on job sites and stuff, that's a, that's a great size. Yeah. It's nice to bring out too. It's small. The cap close is nice. It doesn't, uh, doesn't get all cruddy. Yeah. And all in the shop, I have a bunch of that size and those I kind of keep as like, uh,
00:16:34
Speaker
like the nicer glue bottles. The 16 ounce ones come up doing panel glue up, some big, you know, tables, countertops, stuff like that, because obviously you need more glue. Yeah. But these are nice because if you use them for like, let's say you're gluing up moldings or something, it's more delicate, less messy, and you clean the tip and they go back and they stay clean and they have a good flow. So.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I kind of remember when this whole thing was imagined and came to fruition. Yeah, first it was a quick and thick cap.
00:17:10
Speaker
which we if you use type on quick and thick, we have replacement caps for that that are tethered. We have a combination. That's that same clip with a tethered cap to it. So it's like a two and one. And then, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I thought of this, but. I was just thinking of other things for glue bottles, I think. Yeah. We have some other stuff on there, too, a little brush holder, stuff like that.
00:17:37
Speaker
That's right. But that's that's the big boy. Yeah, that's the one that had the most traction. We can see why. Yeah, that is the most quick and thick. Yeah. The quick and thick is it's good, but I.
00:17:52
Speaker
I've only heard of a handful of them breaking, but 3D printing isn't really the best manufacturing process for something that goes, having a thin plunger that goes inside the bottle. So it's not something that we're, we're still selling them, but I don't want to push it because it's kind of like a beta, it's still like a beta test kind of product.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, because even their caps, which are probably injection molded, those tips, you know, leave them break off in there when they get stuck with glue. This is sour. It is, isn't it? It's like lemon juice sour. Yeah. I can taste the tea. Yeah. Like an Arnold Palmer. I love an Arnold Palmer. Yeah. Let's see, what's this eBay guy got to say? $30 per cent.
00:18:43
Speaker
We bought new Makita, labeled as new Makita batteries. But they came a little bit dinged up. Yeah, they looked like they were not new. Generally about $30 per set, so since you bought two sets, about $60 credit, or I could send another 5.0 new open box, or we have some 2.0 open box and could do two of those. No, we don't want 2.0s.
00:19:11
Speaker
They sell for $30 per set. But we paid $100 per set. I don't think I like that math. Maybe he's talking about that's what he would give us as a discount, as a rebate, refund. No, he said... Sorry to, uh...
00:19:40
Speaker
I guess this isn't boring. We bought Makita batteries off eBay, labeled as new, two pack of 5.0s for $110 or whatever it was, or $105 I think we paid. They came and they definitely looked like they weren't new. So this guy is saying, what happened to the message? Why is it showing this new message?
00:20:10
Speaker
I said, how much are the batteries we received going for? Generally about $30 per set. So since you bought two sets, about $60 credit, or I could send another 5.0 new open box, or we have some 2.0 open box and could do two of those. So he's saying the used batteries are selling for $30 a set. Cause he thinks he, cause we're saying he sent us used ones.
00:20:44
Speaker
unless he means that they sell for 75 a set. We'll find out. Send him a question. It only took, uh, this long to hear from him again a week or William and Hussey wheel, uh, rollers are out for delivery by the way. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to strip that thing down and get it all powder coated. Yeah.
00:21:09
Speaker
You know, sometimes it's like you don't there's not enough time for all this stuff. Yeah. You got to be a weekend warrior. I mean, the weekend comes. I need to like take a nap on like Saturday afternoon. I got to recharge. Yeah. Oh, I says, what are you going to do today? I'm like, I'm doing it right now on the couch. This is it. What are you going to make me do today?
00:21:39
Speaker
The best, you know what I like? And she'll say, she'll reel off about three or four things that she wants me to do. And I know it's going to take me about a half hour to an hour to do all those. But in her world, she's thinking that's an all day thing. So she'll go out and then I'll do the chores. So when she comes back, it seems like I worked all day. So yeah, text me when you're coming home and then that's when you start working.
00:22:07
Speaker
Man, I've been at it since you left. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we better get into these questions. All right. I got our first one here from Buddy Corey, one of our patrons, CT Woodwork on Instagram.
Shop Organization Tips
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, on Long Island. Yes, sir. What are some of your favorite shop organization tips? Oh, man. Those bins, for one. Yeah.
00:22:36
Speaker
I was gonna say like make sure everything has a home. Yeah That way you just put it back where where you got it. Yeah And for me I like to have everything away into like a cabinet or a drawer or something because Once you start filling up the walls
00:22:58
Speaker
You run out of places to lean things because you're always covering some parts and yeah, then you can't get to what's behind the material. If you have a giant shop, it's not as big of a deal because you'd have all kinds of tables to stack material, but we have long material. It has to lean up against the wall because the shop's only so big.
00:23:23
Speaker
So yeah, if you can get stuff into rolling cabinets and in your table saw station, stuff like that. I love that tool cabinet we just got. Yeah.
00:23:38
Speaker
because got all those shallow drawers. I'm a big fan of the shallow drawer. Yeah. Um, because I, I don't like the, the deep drawer things get the only one layer, one layer of stuff. Right. Right. Cause if you got to get to the bottom where you're pulling everything out,
00:23:58
Speaker
Right. Because we have that kind of deep drawer where we have like tools, like the socket set. I mean, it's not so bad because we don't get into that stuff too often, but it was all it's all piled up on. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck finding the half inch. You need a half inch open ended wrench. You got to look at all of them because not anymore. But that's no. Speaking of which, we got to empty out that drawer. Yeah. With all the hand tools and stuff. Yeah. Find some shit to put in there.
00:24:26
Speaker
But as I was saying, that little bin that we were talking about last week. The Schaller Corporation. Yeah, yeah. That thing's awesome because it turned that drawer into 24 separate little compartments. That was the size we chose. It could have been more or less, depending on the size of the bin.
00:24:47
Speaker
But you open that drawer now, and everything's just laid out in front of you. All the different size screws, the little weird couplings. And that's all stuff from two different locations that are now consolidated in a drawer where a lot of that stuff we had up on the wall on those little shelves. And same thing.
00:25:08
Speaker
the stuff on the top there was things stacked up. You need the thing on the bottom. You got to pull the shit down. Then you got something leaning against their long cutoffs and stuff. So yeah, it.
00:25:21
Speaker
It made a lot more organized and easy. Yeah. So I think we agree on these things. We like drawers. We like one layer. Even when you open the drawer, everything's got a spot. Not like your junk drawer in the kitchen. It's more like the utensil drawer in the kitchen where it's divided up into spots. Yeah, even like we have a drawer that has all the nailers, the nails.
00:25:49
Speaker
And in the back, there's just miscellaneous driver bits, but they're all standing up in their own little slot. All the individual nail sizes are in their own little bin. Speaking of which, we should look at the Shaler and see if they got some bins for those. Oh, yeah. Some mishmash at the wall and like a wooden thing and. Yeah. Staples.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah, we could definitely use some more of those. They're cheap. Freddie told me he's got 300 of them. He's like, I got 300 in blue. I'm like, you know what? That does not surprise me. Because, you know, he's in Massachusetts. So so he knows the shallow corporation. Yeah. Yeah. Sal just bought a bunch. He same thing as us. Consolidated a bunch of junk. Yeah. Into one drawer. And it feels good.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean organization is paramount in the shop. Alright, so we like drawers, we like bins, we like everything having a home. Those are all good tips. Yeah, I mean I think that's about
00:26:58
Speaker
And what about keeping things clean too? I mean, I, I like keeping the floor pretty clean. I don't like stepping on things. And yeah, I'm a, I kind of like let it get crazy and then clean up everything really well to not interrupt the flow, you know, the workflow. But once it starts becoming a noticeable thing, that's when you gotta, you just gotta stop and clean.
00:27:23
Speaker
You know, one of my pet peeves, like on the floors, like if there's like a little something and it's always on, you're working at a tool or a machine. You're stepping on it. You keep stepping on this little thing. Yeah. A little cut off of like a piece of face-free material. Yeah. I hate that. The edge banding, little edge banding, that stuff sucks.
00:27:45
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yeah, edge banding, all the stuff that sticks to the mats. I'll walk past it five or 10 times, and it's sort of like it's mocking me. Yeah, a little piece of double-sided tape if you're doing stuff with that. I got to pick it up eventually. So what else? What about long-term storage?
00:28:09
Speaker
We're probably not the guys to ask on that one because it's pretty much a clusterfuck. Yeah. We just keep cramming. We're like the guys. You're not as experienced at this as I am. But when you ride the subway as a commuter, it would be so jammed and you'd come to a stop and the doors open and you go, there's no way anybody else can get on this train.
00:28:37
Speaker
please nobody else get on and like three people will like wedge their way in in Japan they push in yeah and that's the way that's the way our long-term story it's like we're full up then we'll get something else I guess William and Hussey is gonna go in the shed and we'll just wedge it in yeah so if we just move this over here and put it on top of this thing and we can fit a whole Baker scaffold yeah
00:29:06
Speaker
And four bins of blankets. We won't take no for an answer. We're going to force this thing in there. Yeah, we should address that before wintertime ends. Both sheds. Yeah, I know. We need a new double shed. Yeah, that'd be nice.
00:29:33
Speaker
It would be nice. We had to eliminate the red shed. Yeah. Red sheds. Two of those metal ones side by side. I wonder, you probably cut a, cut a, the sidewall out. Oh yeah. And have a double. Double wide. Yeah. Hmm. That's a thought. Ah, but to dream. Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
So there you go. We're full of tips, aren't we? Yeah, you can say that. You want to read this next one? All right. Oh, this is apropos. Do you prefer to sand and pre-finish your pieces before assembling? How far do you sand before cutting your joinery? That's from Miles. He's a eat, drink wine guy on Instagram and also one of our loyal patrons.
00:30:30
Speaker
Well, we're actually we're going through going through this right now. So we're building this wall unit and it's all
00:30:40
Speaker
white oak and rifts on white oak plywood. The doors are Baltic birch with rifts on white oak veneer that we glued on. And the backs of the cabinet are like a, it's called Mist by Rubio Monoco. It's like for all intents and purposes, let's just call it clear. It's a clear finish and everything else is black. Yeah, black black. Yeah, intense black pre-color by Rubio Monoco.
00:31:10
Speaker
So there's no finishing that when it's assembled because, I mean, we're going to tape it off. It's a rub-on finish. It's just impossible. We did that Anand's job, which was the charcoal Rubio. Yeah, charcoal. Yeah, charcoal Rubio. And it had clear finished backs in maple.
00:31:36
Speaker
And we finished those prior to putting them in, and we still had issues. You really have to rub the Rubio completely off otherwise, especially with black. With this pre-color, it's not so much a problem because that stuff dries, unlike the oil.
00:31:55
Speaker
So yeah, what we did on this one is we finished all the insides. We finished the backs. We still have to top coat the insides with the oil plus 2C. But yeah, so we're pre-finishing the insides of everything on this job. Yeah, yeah. It's nice, too, because you get the flat finish. I guess that's the term.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, like trying to rub finish into the corners and stuff on the inside of a cabinet sucks. Yeah, like that cherry coffee armoire. That was difficult. Yeah. Because you got to move. Once you get down in the corner, you got to keep that move. And otherwise, you get that kind of built up, dark edge there.
00:32:43
Speaker
Yeah. And you don't want to flood the joint too much because then it might leak out or it's just, you know, you want to have a nice, just a nice even layer finish with a rubbed on kind of thing like that.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, so typically what do we
Pre-Finishing Wood Techniques
00:33:02
Speaker
do though? You know, if we're doing something, I guess we're transitioning to where we're learning to pre-finish before assembly. Yeah, I mean it kind of depends on the job.
00:33:13
Speaker
I like to try and pre-finish before assembly on everything if I can. Sometimes the workflow dictates. I mean sometimes you just can't because you're going to hold, maybe I'm going to hold you up by doing it that way or vice versa. So sometimes the work doesn't allow it.
00:33:33
Speaker
And you have to make that sacrifice of, well, we're going to have to eat shit on the finishing because we just got to keep the job moving or get this done so that we can do this. When I first started, I didn't even understand the concept of pre-finishing before assembly. I would just build it and then look at it and go, oh, I got to finish it now, you know, kind of thing. But it's got a lot of merits.
00:34:04
Speaker
Especially for interiors. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why people use pre-finished plywood. Yeah. And physically, it's there's a lot of benefits to it. It just looks better. Yes. There's no sanding the inside. I'm sorry. There's no sanding the inside of a cabinet once it's put together. Unless you want to be in there with hand sandpaper. Right. Who's getting paid to do that? Yeah. Yeah. And so how far are we sand before joinery?
00:34:33
Speaker
That's another one of those things where it depends. Some joints want to be sanded after, some joints want to be sanded before. And it's different, you know, one joint you might want to say in the face before and the edge, you know, it all depends.
00:34:50
Speaker
The other thing is, everything's coming out of our milling stuff pretty clean. I mean, it's definitely got to be sanded, but it comes off the planer. It's clean.
00:35:06
Speaker
So if we're doing doors, we pretty much just go from the planer to joinery to assembly so that we can, you know, flatten any joints that need to be flattened and that sort of thing. Yeah. And that's like a deciding factor, too. Like a door, no matter how precise the joinery is, you got to flatten the joints. They're never going to be right. You might get one joint on a door. That's perfect out of four.
00:35:34
Speaker
So it doesn't make sense to sand those beforehand. Yeah. We might run them through the drum sander just to, you know, thickness everything, remove any little bit of snipe that there might be. So I guess that qualifies. But yeah, like if you're doing like we're doing, let's say, a half lap joint on you've got to build like an X for something or whatever, a door or whatever. The stuff is coming so clean out of the
00:36:05
Speaker
the planer that even if we sanded that like cut the joinery fit it then sanded it and then put it together it really shouldn't make that much of a difference in the fitment because we're we're only taking off you know thousandths of an inch in sanding
00:36:22
Speaker
Yeah. On a door like a typical door we do has a loose panel and a floating panel. I like to try and get those edges on the inside of the door. Oh, yeah. I even try and hit those with just a plane because it's faster and makes it flatter.
00:36:43
Speaker
And straighter sort of yeah, because you can't you don't want to sand where the rail butts into the style Right because any deviation you're gonna have a joint that doesn't close on so you can take a hand plane just like a whatever I'm using number four, but I guess a longer plane would be even better if you had a seven or an eight and
00:37:04
Speaker
and just one or two swipes just to get that chatter off from the jointer or the table saw marks depending on which side you use.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, because again, you're going to get in there and sand into every little corner. Yeah. I can't tell you how many times I have neglected to do that. And then you get, then you get cross grain scratches on the panel. Cause then the panels pre-finished, you put your door together, especially if it's the table. So you see those little tiny marks, you know, there's cherry, there might be some burn. Oh God. And you try and like get in there with your thumb.
00:37:40
Speaker
Try and get in there with like a card scraper and you scratch Yeah, that's one of those situations where just like thinking ahead a little bit Do you save that much time? Let's say you only save an hour which in the grand scheme of a job isn't that much and this is for like if you're doing like a lot of doors and
00:38:01
Speaker
it was still easier to just hit them with a plane before you put them together than it is to just like, everybody's always focused on the finish line, which is we got to get these doors assembled. But if you take a half hour now and prep all these pieces, then you're going to save an hour on the back end. So I'm all about that prep work where the goal isn't to just get to the finished product. It's how many things can I do now that I'm not going to have to do once this is off
00:38:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I always like to dry fit my doors. You know what I mean? And make see how everything's going together. So when I glue it up, I'm not faced with something like a joint that's a little bit too tight, you know, and you can't I don't like that if I got to like really hit it down in there with a little mallet means I'm squishing out all the glue one and that might crack that
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah spread open the Mortis mm-hmm yeah, so I always like to dry fit it quickly You know make sure I everything's gonna go together that kind of like pre glue Yeah, that's kind of how I do it like I I like to work on it on a table
00:39:14
Speaker
Assemble the door and then I just take it apart as it lays Put glue on the tenons put glue in the mortises and then just clamp it up Yeah, I dry assemble it in the clamps. Yes, then the clamps are already there. You're putting it back together within the clamps, right? Yeah, sometimes there's a little regularity Where it passed through the dado or something like that and the panels like to snug in that one spot or yeah Yeah, yeah, if you got a piece that's that's bowed. Mm-hmm
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah, so that's it. Well, of course, the panels got to be finished, you know. Yeah, at least the edges. Yeah, you got to go through. If you're doing panels, those have to be sanded as much as they're going to get sanded. And we like to finish them first so that there's no little dry marks if there's, as Seinfeld said, shrinkage.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah and you really I mean really we should be finishing the inside of the yeah I mean in a perfect world yes you want all the wood to be sealed but yeah I don't know if I know anybody who does that no well we definitely do the panels and
00:40:28
Speaker
Well, I guess I mean, I guess I do do that. Not on like we're building a kitchen. I don't do it. Well, like if if like on the Dutch door, all of those mortises, the grooves for those are all finished. Well, that was a special. I mean, that's an exterior. Yeah. Yeah. But even even on like say we built an interior door or something, I would do it because it's just for longevity. It's just a better
00:41:00
Speaker
You can't do it on 75 doors, but on a kitchen, you know, there's just not that much money in or time in it. And it's a smaller joint, too. You know, those bigger joints, the bigger pieces of wood. Yeah, you might have a panel that's three quarters of an inch thick. Yeah. All right. What do we got next? I got one here from Vince, one of our patrons, RobVinceP on Instagram. Any recommendations on benchtop mortisers?
00:41:28
Speaker
You know, back in the olden days when I was working in the basement, I had a jet benchtop mortiser and I could not recommend it. And in general, you know, those are all kind of like the same. Those are all kind of like the same machines that the jet and the Delta and
00:41:55
Speaker
the power tech. They're all those same Taiwanese machines. Now, I was just learning what tools were going to be in my repertoire, my quiver, so to speak. And I found there was
00:42:13
Speaker
Too much deflection for my liking in that that type of machine. And I and I didn't like like the way the hold down was where you had to move it along to to keep, you know, traveling to get, you know, the length of the mortise done. You had to manually move it. Yeah. Had a knob where it moved. No, you had to manually move it. That's the way all those things were really set up. Yeah.
00:42:41
Speaker
I even bought, um, one of those milling vices and tried to like, you know, married into my bench. It, it, I still have the milling vice, which was, you know, fine.
00:42:59
Speaker
Excuse me. But the weakness was still in the benchtop mortiser. You know, it was just as I felt like as I brought it down, it wasn't accurate enough for me. Not repeatable. No, I didn't. I didn't think it was. I didn't think it was like that's when I bought the Domino.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, now I have zero experience with mortising machines. So I really have much to offer. Yeah, I'd say that, you know, you're probably going to get what you pay for. So you're going to buy one, make sure it's a good one.
00:43:35
Speaker
That, that's, that's what it was. Especially for like, you want to do mortise and tenons, so it's got to be good. Otherwise, don't just do something else. Exactly. I said, this isn't going to cut it. And I know Vince got it. He's got a Domozilla, so.
00:43:50
Speaker
All right. And I was looking at back when I bought my Domino, it was about 800 bucks for the whole kit. There are probably quite a bit more now. I don't know. It might be like 1100 now. Yeah. So I was looking at, do I invest in like a real mortiser? It takes up a lot of room. Is this going to be like
00:44:17
Speaker
such a dedicated operation in my little shop that I'm going to invest this sort of like table saw kind of money in space into like a real mortiser. Freestanding. Yeah. So I said, no, I'm going to look for a different avenue. And that's when I went with the domino and, you know, the loose mortise and tenon. Yeah, you can't get the same aesthetic, unfortunately. But and people who do exposed dominoes, please just stop.
00:44:48
Speaker
should be illegal it really should that's that's not right I've seen like some content creators do it on like drawer boxes no no no the Domino is a hidden joy gonna do the exposed biscuit
00:45:09
Speaker
Oh man. Um, you know what joint I really like is like the bridal joint, like that full on all the way through 10 is nice, but it's not an easy joint. It's a long. Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
Um, that's when I bought that, that jig, that Delta sliding jig. Um, but you, you gotta be really careful when you're cutting those joints. So there's absolutely no deflection or angle. Otherwise you get a sloppy looking joint and it defeats the whole purpose. Yeah. Yeah. I do like a bridal joint.
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and then you pin it. Yeah. Those are nice, but, uh, you gotta get paid for that. You know, back in the early days, I hadn't discovered that dynamic yet.
00:46:05
Speaker
Well, we still sometimes, right? Right. It's like, you know, it would look great here. There was nobody telling me, you know, Rob, you're going to add four days to this job. I mean, even like the doors on this built in, I mean, really because it's made him out of plywood, like the rest of the thing, right? We said, uh, you know, we'll spend $300 on a piece of a near.
00:46:23
Speaker
but because it's 16 inch it's a full 16 inch thick veneer yeah whereas veneer plywood is what like a 64th if you're lucky 128 128 so half of that um so it's nicer it's yeah you know you bang into it's not going to be uh
00:46:42
Speaker
Right. Problem. And, you know, it was laid up by these guys in Illinois. They cut the veneers. They laid them up. Right. So, you know, could we have done that? Yeah. But this one we decided to buy for 300 bucks. Could we have done it? Probably not. No, not not as well as they did it. No, no. I mean, that's what they do. Right. So put it on paper backing. And UPS dropped it off the door.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yeah. Love that UPS. Yeah. I mean, FedEx, we, we have other. Yeah. Order Rubio Monaco yesterday. Uh, uh,
00:47:21
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe, maybe about this time, two, three o'clock in the afternoon. Well, we had it at a 11 30. Yeah. And it enabled us to put that finish on the backs and everything before the podcast that we can, you know, continue fabricating tomorrow. So, I mean, we paid $52 in shipping, but, but still from Texas to New Jersey in 24, not even 24 hours.
00:47:47
Speaker
This is where I'm glad we agree, and we're maybe different from other people. We paid the $52 in shipping because it actually earned us money by being able to do that today. So it sounds like we paid $52, but in the big scheme of things, we made money. We made money. Yeah, because we got done today. Right. Well, we wouldn't be able to get done
00:48:13
Speaker
Let's say we paid $30 shipping, we got it at the end of the day tomorrow. Well then, today was shot, tomorrow's shot, and then Friday we're puttin' finish on. That finish has to dry. So then Monday we're gonna start, Monday will be where we'll be tomorrow. Right. It holds up the progression of the job. Yeah. Because again, we're finishing before assembly on this one.
00:48:38
Speaker
So that's good. Yeah. What the hell were we talking about?
Benchtop Mortisers Discussion
00:48:43
Speaker
I think we're talking about. You know what happened to my benchtop more, sir? Uh, Craigslist.
00:48:52
Speaker
I gave it away. It was one of those things like I would sell stuff on Craigslist and some like somebody was like much more of a newbie than I was would come. Oh man. And I would pull like one of those things like my wife does. They would be like come to buy something go. Hey you want this here take this. That's like Keith. We couldn't get Keith to take our damn miter saw. So we pawned it off on Manny.
00:49:20
Speaker
All right. If this one starts off with a compliment, beautiful job on your last project. Uh, that's from Peter who's a ruster Holt's woodworking on Instagram. Wow. Uh, solid slab fronts versus veneered MDF warping.
00:49:41
Speaker
So yeah. So Peter's talking about the, uh, the, um, our most recent like post on Instagram. It's that credenza, the wine cabinet, the mirror wall. So the, uh, those doors on, and there's two drawers, those doors, they're all solid quarter white oak. Um, so he, that's what he's referring to. You know, why did we go with solid, uh, versus, you know, a, a veneered chic good?
00:50:09
Speaker
Well, I mean, appearance is the first thing. It's just nicer. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are used to set we're set up to work with solid woods. Yeah, we just prefer, you know, making things with solid wood when budget allows.
00:50:29
Speaker
right. Um, the edge banding is, is, you know, it never really comes off to me like along that, that cross grain section. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's because we are, I will go to that
00:50:48
Speaker
Yeah, because the client, we told the client, you know, that we're like, yeah, look, you see how the grain carries through? Like, this was all one board. She's like, I didn't even notice. I'm like, how could you, how would you not notice that? Oh, wow. These line up, three doors line up the grain perfectly. This six by three foot slab of wood was one continuous thing. Yeah, that we sliced into six individual pieces and then reassembled into three doors.
00:51:17
Speaker
The, the cool, I mean her reaction was what I've experienced throughout my whole time. Nobody notices it, but once you tell them, they tell everybody, right? When people come over, they're going to go and look what they did here. Yeah. And they're going to say, wow.
00:51:36
Speaker
And what happens is they start looking at their other stuff, their other furniture, sideways. That's the truth. The more they know about the furniture that we've made them, the better it is for continued work.
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah, so the edges especially, but just the field. You know, we get to choose the wood and how it looks as opposed to... Yeah, it's repairable. You know, the kid throws a matchbox car at it, gets a dent. We could sand it out and refinish it. A piece of plywood, it's done for. And then, you know, let's say you grain match with sheet stock or veneer. You laid up veneer in the shop.
00:52:25
Speaker
The gray match is gone. There's no more gray match. We could take those back to the shop and plane a 16th off the face of all of them and put them back on if we wanted to. I think it's faster.
00:52:38
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's the thing. We're set up for that. And we're so the shop set up for in our skills are really set up for that. You know, we we process hardwood so fast, like today we're just sort of like.
00:52:56
Speaker
Uh, you know, this one in the wind, like walking through those things. Oh, let's mill these things up and we just do it. Yeah. Um, whereas we don't have to, you know, we don't have to think about it. Whereas the other stuff we kind of have to finesse it a little bit more. Yeah. Like edge banning is a slow process. Even with the contour. Oh, like if we had an automatic edge bander, it'd be faster. And then, you know, you're talking about a whole nother piece of tool. Um,
00:53:24
Speaker
You know, the thing is, this is quarter song white oak. So not really worried too much about warping and movement and stuff like that. Like we wouldn't be doing this this exact way. There's no battens or anything on those. If it was maple or, you know, something flat song, flat song oak or whatever, we would be doing it a different way. Right. You know, whether that's
00:53:50
Speaker
with veneer or stavecore or putting batons on the back or whatever.
00:53:58
Speaker
you know, we wouldn't do it this exact way, but you know, a quarter sawn oak, it's pretty, pretty stable. Yeah. Yeah. And the design called for slab. Um, if it's more of like, um, you know, traditional design, we would work breadboard ends into it or something like that so that it's, uh, yeah, or just a framing panel. Yeah. So we're not worried about warping really. No.
00:54:27
Speaker
Well, you know, it also goes to how we handle the wood to when we're milling it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, plywood award. Yeah. MDF, not so much, but I just, I don't want to give them an MDF tour. Yeah. Part of it is, um, I don't know. What would you call that? That, that we have a sort of, uh, because
00:54:55
Speaker
You know, the client doesn't necessarily look down on that sort of construction or the material choices. Right. They're worried about the final aesthetic from here to there. Right.
00:55:13
Speaker
And I see, I think we see it more as well, you know, it takes more skill, knowledge, experience to do it this way and have it last, not just last long enough for a photo. Yeah, more labor, more material cost, which like we bid this, rebid this, I think we talked about this last week, the concierge desk.
00:55:50
Speaker
A lot of people complain about how it's hard to make money as a cabinet maker, but if we were doing all the things that other people are doing, we'd be raking in the money. I know. You know, we don't get the job because we cost more because we're trying to give a better product. If we lowered what, you know, I don't want to say lowered our standards, but if we changed the way that we did things, then we would lower our prices significantly and we'd be able to, you know, we'd be so busy, we wouldn't even know what the hell to do with ourselves.
00:56:04
Speaker
and like to see what that person was giving for the price versus what we were giving for the price.
00:56:20
Speaker
Right, there's plywood drawer boxes with no joinery is what he was pricing. While we were solid maple with dovetail joinery. Yeah. And that was just one of the things. Our original quote had all sorts of more time-consuming elements in it. Frame inset, five-piece walnut doors with a batch panel.
00:56:54
Speaker
The client's going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the problem is the client doesn't know. That's where I was trying to go. The client doesn't know.
Maintaining Craftsmanship Standards
00:57:02
Speaker
The client doesn't care that we're a couple thousand more and you're going to get a solid walnut door versus a MDF with a walnut veneer. They don't know nor care that what we're giving them is worth
00:57:18
Speaker
Yeah. The thing is in a commercial application, especially, oh yeah, come back in five years and see what it looks like. You know, where that there, there'll be elements of that MDF door and plywood drawer and all that stuff. There'll be elements of that job that are just trash because it just won't withstand the, the daily use. Yeah.
00:57:47
Speaker
Yeah, some janky side mount slides. But it looks great from across the room the day you put it in. Yeah. And that's the battle. So we're content, I think, you know, doing what we do.
00:58:12
Speaker
All right, where are we now in our questions? We've got our last question here from Miles again, Eat, Drink, Wine Guy, one of our patrons.
Choosing Finishes: Polyurethane vs. Tung Oil
00:58:22
Speaker
Do you use polyurethane if you need a more durable finish or is tongue oil still your go-to? Well, we did use some poly on that commercial countertop, didn't we?
00:58:35
Speaker
Yes, we built for the job of a Newark a was a 12 foot long.
00:58:44
Speaker
Yeah, 12 by about 24. I don't think it was two feet. I think it was like a foot and a half or something like that, wasn't it? No, the desks were 18. I think it was 24. I think you're right, yeah. 12 foot by two foot countertop that was going to be in a window with a lot of seating in front of it and stuff. And we actually went with polyurethane on that. I mean, it's definitely not the best finish, but for us and our shop,
00:59:12
Speaker
We don't have a spray booth. And there's 2K polys and all these other sprayable finishes, but we're just not really set up for that. And for us, that was the best choice. Yeah, one of the best choices for a durable finish. Oil-based polyurethane, not water-based.
00:59:35
Speaker
Right. So yeah, I guess it doesn't certainly doesn't have a home in the shop. Like a permanent was like a one off kind of thing. But, um,
00:59:45
Speaker
again, commercial lobby. Um, so it's like a public space. Yeah. Like in a home, in a home, it's less of a concern because there's a homeowner who is going to have some upkeep like this. You know, we knew it was going to, what kind of people are going to be working in this wash chemicals. Yeah. Yeah. Like people spilling coffee on it and you know,
01:00:11
Speaker
Not many people working to like keep an eye on, you know what I mean? I could just see these things slipping through the cracks and this thing getting, you know, totally ruined and it ultimately probably falling on my shoulders. And we've seen pieces
01:00:31
Speaker
after they've been abused. We've gone back and repaired them. So mistreated, those things can go downhill fast. Yeah. And you don't want to call back. So I think it was a good choice. We did like four coats of oil-based poly. Yeah. Yeah. It looks nice. Yeah. I mean, poly is a... It looks good on certain woods.
01:01:08
Speaker
But in general, we're not going to go with that. No, no. I mean, what were some other alternative finishes we've used as far as durability? Can you remember anything else? You know, we used the pre-catalyzed lacquer on that Manny sprayed the whole year wall with, you know, a black lacquer. Yeah, that looks nice.
01:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, this is some nice dark black walnut, right?
01:01:39
Speaker
I mean, we really stick to like the tongue oil and the Rubio. We did the Gleam, horrible Gleam 2.0 on the Dutch door. What did we use on those phone booths? Was it just? It was just Rubio. Just Rubio. Yeah. Yeah, those will probably hold up better up there. Yeah, that's not going to be in the direct sunlight like that.
01:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, those came out pretty good. And now we use that Rubio, what they call, uh, was it exterior Rubio on the, on the coffee thing, hybrid wood protector.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah. I got that cream now. Wood cream. Rubio wood cream. Vertical surfaces only. I don't understand that. Yeah. It must be not that, not that protective. I guess. I mean, if you, if you can't put like a glass down on it or something like that, cause they say it's what, hydrophobic or hydroscopic, hydrophobic, hydrophobic. Um, but, uh,
01:02:42
Speaker
I guess, like, look at our table there. That's from last week, I think. I don't know if that's tongue oil or if that's... Well, you see those rings right there? Yeah, well, that's actual beer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't come down here and clean the bug, guys. So there
Patron Shoutout & Conclusion
01:02:59
Speaker
you go. There you have it. Yeah. Well, we'll rattle off the question of the week, which we'll do in the Patreon. That's from our buddy Manny. Two Manny mistakes on Instagram, one of our Patrons. Follow your own current or ride the wave.
01:03:12
Speaker
in philosophical. I was gonna say poetic poetic in a sense. Yeah, it gives us something to ponder. It's like a fall out boy lyric.
01:03:27
Speaker
That's some inside humor there. Manny's favorite band for the record. Ultimate fan. If you're looking for it to gift Manny, two Manny mistakes, anything from Fall Out Boy. Two Woodpeckers. Yeah, t-shirts, bandanas. Maybe like a journal. Oh yeah. Pins. Pins, yeah. For like a denim jacket. Yeah, patches, stickers.
01:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, what else what other kind of paraphernalia would those guys have? Like one of those like weird like conductor kind of hats. Oh, yeah. What about like like those plastic Halloween masks? With elastic strap on the back, like, you know, a kiss would have. You know, they would have like the makeup and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't think make those for fall out, fall out, fall out boy makeup kits. Hmm.
01:04:27
Speaker
So there you go. When's Manny's birthday? I think it's coming up. Yeah, so listeners.
01:04:35
Speaker
See what you can do for Manny. Too many mistakes. Concert tickets, that's an option. They might be coming close to New Jersey soon. Near you. Backstage passes. You know, it could be like, let's say you were like a DIY kind of person, which maybe many of our listeners are, you could print out
01:05:01
Speaker
the lyrics to a Fallout Boys song with like, you know, raved into a charcuterie. Yeah. Or, you know, with what's that called when you write with calligraphy? Like a wall hanger thing. Yeah. Needle point. Yeah. Like do a needle point that you hang on the wall. Right. Right. Sugar. We're going down swinging. Is that one of their songs? Oh my God.
01:05:29
Speaker
No wonder he loves them. I mean, if it's the bill as the ultimate fan. Oh, God, he's going to kill us. We'll stop poking fun. We let's thank the patrons and we'll talk about the beer. We got our gold tier patrons, Jerry Green and David Murphy, Manny Sirianni, Dustin Fair, Adam Potash, David Shoemaker, Colin Lye, Keith Drennan and Corey Ty. Thanks, guys.
01:05:58
Speaker
Thank you very much. Well, I just polished off my glass. Yeah, what'd you think? I liked it. It was a little sour, but once you get used to it, it's pretty enjoyable. It's no, what is that, slush punch? Yeah.
01:06:19
Speaker
But this is a pretty broad category for me where they infuse like a fruit kind of thing. I don't know if technically all those beers fit into the same category. Not really, but yeah, I can kind of taste the tea as an aftertaste like I'm
01:06:42
Speaker
It's definitely more lemonade than tea. And lemonade is even sort of a stretch because it's not sweet. No, it's lemon. It's sour. Sour lemon. It's like imagine you had like like iced tea that have been sitting and the ice melted and you squeezed about like six lemons in there. Yeah. I mean, it does say sour ale. Yeah.
01:07:06
Speaker
I'm a big fan of sours. You know, because usually they're sort of clean and refreshing. This was good. Yeah. I would definitely like some more tea. Maybe dial back the lemon just a hair.
01:07:22
Speaker
That would be interesting to be in on like a tasting panel like that where you could say, give me, you know, about 50% less lemon and 25% more tea from a beer as it takes weeks to make. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, this is probably like three guys.
01:07:40
Speaker
It's like us, they're like coming in. Yeah, that table looks great. You think you can lower by about three inches? James, that trestled? Give us five minutes. That is still... Yeah, no problem.
01:07:56
Speaker
right up. So for all you, what did we call them? Gold tier patrons coming up. We'll have our after after show with our question of the week. Yeah. For Manny.
01:08:13
Speaker
All right, so we're going to bid farewell for this next to last episode, penultimate episode of the year. Season one, yeah. We're going to be with season two in two weeks. Tune in for our retrospective next week. Yeah, we're going to have to think long and hard. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Take care. Have a good 52.
01:08:48
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a change