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Episode 141 - ADHD and Trauma: Why We’re 400% More Likely to Get F*cked Up
42 Plays4 days ago
Welcome back to ADHDville, you beautiful bunch of distracted souls! We’re your ex-mayors, Martin and Paul, and this week we are diving headfirst into a topic that is equal parts heavy and... well, still heavy, but we’re making it funny anyway.
We’re talking about Trauma Responses. Buckle up, because the science dropped and it turns out we’re not just dramatic—we’re statistically screwed. New research says that folks with ADHD are 400% more likely to develop severe trauma responses than our neurotypical peers.
Four. Hundred. Percent.
That’s not a typo, that’s just our brains being overachievers.
In this episode, we break down why our ADHD brains are basically trauma magnets. We’re talking about the "Bi-Directional Loop of Doom" where our executive dysfunction makes trauma worse, and the trauma makes our ADHD worse. Fun, right?
We get into the nitty-gritty of those specific trauma responses we all know too well:
- Hypervigilance: You know, the superpower where you can tell how pissed off your partner is just by the way they close the fridge door.
- Disassociation: Ah yes, the classic "zoning out" that makes you forget you have a body for an hour.
- Fawning & People-Pleasing: Becoming a chameleon just to keep the peace, even if it means losing yourself in the process. (Spoiler: Martin has a lot to say about this one).
- Maladaptive Hyperfocus: Using a deep-dive research rabbit hole to avoid eating, sleeping, or dealing with your actual life.
Plus: a quiz about Eddies in history, a run-in with a Michelin sommelier, and the real reason Paul buys rosé based on font design.
If you’ve ever stood in a supermarket aisle for 20 minutes trying to pick a pasta sauce… this one’s for you.
🔔 Subscribe for fresh ADHD chaos every Tuesday.
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Transcript
Welcome Back to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
We're back in the room! Hang on, he says adjusting his screen. There you go. All right, cool. yeah Okay, we're there, we're there. We're there, we're there, we're there. Where what where are we, Martin? what where Where are... Where are we going? What are we doing? How are we doing it?
00:00:19
Speaker
Firstly, we're glad that you're here. Pull up a pew. Join us. um In our broad church, that is...
Understanding ADHDville
00:00:28
Speaker
ADHD floor. A.D.H.D.ville, yeah. It's a very broad church.
00:00:33
Speaker
So let's go to a place where the distractions, the landmarks, and the details are on the main road to welcome to A.D.H.D.ville. Meet the gang, because the book are here, are here, are here, boys to entertain, book to entertain, boys to
00:01:06
Speaker
with a p and i was diagnosed with the combined adhd and the day again dragging and kicking and screaming towards three years ago and i'm martin west and i'm and i was diagnosed with adhd in 2013 and i'm online uh undiagnosed autistic and we are the ex-mayors ADHD and we are hanging out at the King's Agitated Head pub in ADHDville sitting in the back where we are having a drink and taking care of business and this week the business is trauma response yes and we have a quiz ah we have a quiz Trauma response episode 141 would you Adam and Eve it
00:01:51
Speaker
would you adam to an e it no if it's a lot of episodes if someone has said can you do hand will you do 141 episodes i'm like nah mate maybe we probably said that's stretching it isn't it but no we're still stretching it like um yeah we're still we are stretching it like stretch um armstrong um Right.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, ah so I believe this is all... ah Let's jump in the tractor. Yeah.
ADHD and Trauma Susceptibility
00:02:26
Speaker
I think we're going to the spa aren't we, Martin?
00:02:29
Speaker
I think that's a good idea because as we're talking about trauma, I think we need to go somewhere. Right. Also because that's what you wrote on the script. That is exactly what I did, mate. Oh, my God.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yes. Yes.
00:02:54
Speaker
The exact opposite of trauma. need when You when you experience trauma, of what you need is like fridge full of cucumber slices.
00:03:07
Speaker
you know That's exactly like what you need. That's exactly what you need. And if you're feeling particularly traumatic, you can increase the the kind of the thickness of the slices. Oh, I see. Apparently that's how it works. Oh, so so depending on how much trauma you have, is yeah directly relational to the thickness of the cucumber. and that's So if you see someone with whole cucumbers in their eyes,
00:03:38
Speaker
two cucumbers yeah they've had a fucked up life they're probably looking they probably need a hug oh god yeah and the rest or not yeah ask ask if they want a hug because honestly if you're that level oh yes especially if you're autistic i think that's more of an autistic autistic trait isn't it what's that Hugs.
00:04:03
Speaker
Oh, no, I mean. Not liking them. it's It's honestly, it's it's across the board. um ADHD and autistic.
00:04:15
Speaker
I mean, well, I mean, it's eights it's a trauma response. So anything that has given you trauma will. Well, that's topical. I know, mate.
00:04:26
Speaker
Bang on topic, that is. Bang on. Bang on Topic. It's bang on topic also because um one of the reasons why we're doing this subject to today is because there's um a recent report that's come out, recent research.
00:04:43
Speaker
I don't know how many people it is. I don't even know where it was. But apparently it's significant enough that people are paying attention to it. um More specifically...
00:04:54
Speaker
What came out was that if you um are an individual, like Martin is an individual. Hey. I'm an individual, hello. um You are indeed an ADHD, an adult ADHD individual. You are roughly four times more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder or severe trauma responses following an adverse event compared to nero ne neurotypical peers.
00:05:29
Speaker
And that's a lot. That's a lot. You know, when you get, like, um research comes out and they say, oh, you know, it's like 1.75 times more likely. No, this is four times more likely. 400%, mate.
00:05:46
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Yeah. he nice is yeah So even if they missed something, they list they me maybe as they're doing any research, because it it often depends on the numbers, 400% is not leaving, it's not there's not a lot of wiggle room in that, is there?
00:06:06
Speaker
No. No. Because because you you sent me a link and it had like, it was like a, It was like a a someone else's summary?
00:06:18
Speaker
Yes. of the Of the thing. Of the findings. Right. So i I searched around to try and find the the original Okay, the specific research.
00:06:32
Speaker
Research. um Which had a bit of trouble finally, but it looks like it was from 2016. And it's a sort of a... No, it's definitely from, it's really recent. It's like this it last for literally in the last three weeks it's come out.
00:06:48
Speaker
All right. Okay. Then I shall reverse... b be out of that um because I was having trouble finding it. Okay. So i was science so I'm just going off of the ah of the the summary.
00:07:07
Speaker
Okay. Okay.
Stress Response and Working Memory in ADHD
00:07:08
Speaker
So but top apparently of the reasons why we're 400% more likely to be affected by trauma is because the ADHD brain operates with an over, and I'm reading this because this is important to get right,
00:07:22
Speaker
it ah Our ADHD brain operates with an overactive stress response system and a smaller working memory capacity. So that when trauma hits, the ADHD brain has less cold cognitive buffer to process it, causing the trauma to manifest in highly specific behavioral responses.
00:07:49
Speaker
Okay. I think this is very interesting because it kind of um plays into the hands of Gabor Mate, who's who says he's not genetic at all.
00:08:01
Speaker
And it's purely ADHD is purely a trauma response. wait what Now, I think this proves that. to me it's both what what i think that if you are genetically um you know you uh genetically uh we've probably inherited it from our parents okay but if you also in parallel had trauma during your childhood
00:08:32
Speaker
you're much more likely to suffer severe effects of ADHD. No, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, like um from what I got out of it, and the reason why 400% higher is because you have ADHD and that makes your life struggle.
00:08:56
Speaker
Therefore you fail at things. Therefore there's more shame. and then that circles back and then, you know, that, you know, and then, yeah then, then, you know, like it starts to fuck you up and then you fuck up more and then you try harder and then you, you know, and then, and that cycle just causes that cycle just causes the trauma.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah. As you're saying, the the shame of not fitting in and trying to force yourself to fit in, you know, and the double shame of being inauthentic, you know.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah. so it's like For me, shame is such a massive part. I think, talking of trauma response, shame is a massive one.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yes.
Shame's Role in ADHD and Trauma Processing
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah. yeah yeah um It shouldn't ever be underestimated how important shame is. I think pretty much anyone who has ADHD. Right.
00:09:58
Speaker
because ah Because I think if you do have ADHD or your LDHD, I think you kind of like look at that, this this study and go, duh.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, like, yeah, of course, of course, like for us. Yeah, sure. We get it. And and and I feel like sometimes the the scientific the scientific community takes a while to kind of like.
00:10:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they're kind preaching to the converted for to us. I mean, the report isn't for us, is it really? Right, right, right. This research is not for us.
00:10:36
Speaker
You know, they're preaching to the converted. Right. So I guess... Yeah, duh. Yeah, this is what we're saying. But at least there is research being done and costing a lot of money, usually. Research is really expensive, generally. Right.
00:10:55
Speaker
yeah So it is being done. And... um 400%, like I said at at the beginning. That's a big thing. It's not like 1.3 or something.
00:11:06
Speaker
Right. There's no wiggle room at all. It's like yeah pretty freaking convincing. i would so I would suspect that autism is is as high.
00:11:18
Speaker
It might even be higher. um Yeah. than that my That's what my gut says. But um there'd be that that'd be in my gut.
00:11:31
Speaker
My gut says that, I mean, the this a there's a really good, it's actually a really good podcast called The Hidden 20%. it's It's a podcast about autism.
00:11:43
Speaker
The reasons why it's called the hidden 20% is that they think that the real number is about 20% of the population is neurodiverse, right?
00:11:57
Speaker
I think it's much higher. Mate, mate, I, like, honestly, if if I was an alien, I don't know, i no, no, let's just say that I i forgot all of the so so statistics and i and I didn't know any any of that.
00:12:17
Speaker
And someone said, from from my lived experience, what do you think the percentages between neurotypical and neurodivergent? And I would kind of go,
00:12:28
Speaker
ah' I don't know, mate, 50-50? Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. That's what it feels like to me. Totally. And what I think is, I think, I don't know whether it's because of my hypervigilance and I'm good at ah pattern recognition, blah, blah, blah, but I think that, A, in about 20 years, neurodiversity will be given 20 different names, maybe 30,
00:12:58
Speaker
or at least I hope it does, because it's mostly about language. It's about what we call it. you know And ADHD would be like history in about
Defining Neurodiversity
00:13:08
Speaker
20 years' time there as a description, right? Yeah. the Yeah. Because even me and you, we're really different.
00:13:16
Speaker
We've got a lot of similarities, but we're really different as well. Right. Because like as as as far as I can work out, you you can take... you know, like a whole bunch of people with various mental, you know, like just the the whole range of mental stuff, right? Like autism and, and you know, ah anxiety disorders and all of them, right?
00:13:45
Speaker
All of them. And it's just like, Everyone's different. They all have a slightly different pattern. And I kind of feel like, well, you know what?
00:13:55
Speaker
You know, like someone went, someone grouped a bunch over here and called it something. Then they grouped another bunch and called over here and called it something else. Exactly. And it's like, are these...
00:14:08
Speaker
They're helpful, yeah but will they change over time? Will we kind of go, oh, you know what? We have to unravel this because we yeah we've we've worked out something about the the the brain um and actually we should categorize them in a different way.
00:14:28
Speaker
And we'll talk about categorizing. the The general accepted categories is an American system that's only updated every 10 fucking years, right? Right, yeah.
00:14:42
Speaker
And not only that, it's a well-known given that the whole categorization system, okay, is only for insurance purposes.
00:14:53
Speaker
It's totally generated by health insurance so that they know how how and or if to give out insurance claims. Oh, right. Which is completely different to actual need.
00:15:06
Speaker
and reality. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. No, i I,
Common Trauma Responses in Neurodiverse Individuals
00:15:11
Speaker
yeah, that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. The whole DSM thing feels... Exactly.
00:15:17
Speaker
It feels like a sort of ah a first stab at something. Yeah. Well, being gay 20 years ago in the DSM was considered to be a disease.
00:15:30
Speaker
Right. Right. i Yeah. Psychological disease. So I have actually thought about this before and it's like, well, if it changed, would we have to change the name of the podcast? Oh, massively, yeah. ay It isn't ADHDville anymore.
00:15:47
Speaker
Oh, massively. Well, I mean, in one one way, i hope it doesn't, but in most most ways, I hope it does. Well, the thing about what came out of this in this um research was there was three or four typical trauma responses that they were, they talked about. Okay.
00:16:06
Speaker
One of them was chronic hypervigilance. Okay. Right. Which is the over activated fight or flight response. Okay. Yes. Even to the extent, the extent of, um, they remarked about how some people with ADHD or, and or autism can listen to someone's footsteps and,
00:16:28
Speaker
and take a judgment on how stressed they are. yeah Or how they're going to, you know what mean? And i I definitely have that. That's something I definitely have.
00:16:39
Speaker
Reading the room, all of these kind of things. So this to say it's pretty typical in a neurological in the neurodiversity community. Right.
00:16:50
Speaker
a yeah But yeah, it is, to be clear, it is not it is not part of ADHD. It's not part of autism. It's a trauma response. that's fallen out of those of those yeah those conditions, as well as all kinds of others. i mean like god It's not a definition of ADHD. It's a symptom of it.
00:17:13
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. It's like I can imagine if I had an alcoholic father, I didn't, but I would... i i would I would know what mental state he was in by some tiny, yeah, something like how he walked or yeah or what he, you know, or how he came home or how he closed the front door after after work. Like those small things would be, know, my nervous system would be like calibrated
00:17:49
Speaker
to these tiny little... I had a friend that actually had that exact experience with his father. right so his dad came home drunk from the pub at night he would be able to read he would know how serious the situation was going to how he's going to escalate judging on how heavy his footsteps were yeah nuts right that's nuts right yeah um so yeah the other things was um zoning out
Fawning: People-Pleasing and Identity Loss
00:18:22
Speaker
deep dissociation and zoning out as a trauma response
00:18:27
Speaker
I can put my hand up to this massively. I know, now I know it, since I got diagnosed with ADHD, and I can see various times in my life in the past when i I have, when things have got tough in a relationship or with my professional life, I start to disassociate.
00:18:53
Speaker
And it's a red flag. you know what i mean yeah it's a big red flag disassociation yeah i do all the time well not all the time but but mean like chunks of my day i'm disassociating yeah on my phone oh massively exactly um there's another one fawning and chronic rejection sensitivity Fawning is a trauma response where a person automatically develops to people-pleasing, over-appeasing, and abandoning their own boundaries to avoid conflict or abandonment.
00:19:35
Speaker
It's a massive one as well. Yeah, that would be me. Yeah. like I have been getting better over the years, but yeah, I mean, yeah absolutely. Yeah.
00:19:46
Speaker
I've got better at it, especially since I got diagnosed, definitely. Right. When I started giving less of a shit about other people's feelings.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a game changer. And game changer is not an expression I like to use very much because it's such an overused expression.
00:20:10
Speaker
Like exclamation marks. Exactly. Who's a fucking game changer? Fuck off, it's not a game changer. Anyway, this case it was, for me at least.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's really liberating to start caring a bit less about about pleasing other people. right Massively liberating. But it's it's weird because you know because you grow up and you like try and be the person that the other person wants you you to be, like what your mum wants you to be, what your dad wants you to be, what your brother or what the teacher wants you to be, what but your mates, what you want you you to be. So you end up like being all these different versions of yourself. Right. So you're fawning and you're people pleasing. And then as as like I didn't really realize the impact of that until someone would say, ah Martin, what do you want? I'm like, yeah, what do you want to want?
00:21:10
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know well what I want. That's really interesting. Ask someone else what want. Yeah, that's really interesting, Martin, because I remember once I was having some real problems at work dealing with dealing with some um um sort like an interpersonal you know problems with a colleague.
00:21:33
Speaker
and um And it was going on for weeks and weeks, not just like overthinking it massively. And then it got to the point, I remember exactly where I was, I was walking along the street in Rygate where i used to live and work.
00:21:49
Speaker
And I came up with that exact question to myself, Martin, Paul, what the fuck do you want? Mm-hmm. And that was really liberating, you know, that simplicity like, filtering out all the shit, like, Paul, what do you want?
00:22:06
Speaker
And I thought, I need to leave that agency. Right. Right.
00:22:13
Speaker
Yeah, i I find it quite difficult to know. i mean, even now I would have to process like if someone says, oh what do you want? Blah, blah, blah. And I will have to sit and unless I've previously thought it and come up with an answer. I'll have to sit and kind of go and work it out in my head. Like I'll get back to you. I'll have to think about what it is that I want.
00:22:39
Speaker
But it's always those simple questions isn't it? It's like, who are you? Who am I? do I want? are the most challenging, you know, really the most challenging. Right. thing But um but the the thing about fawning and people-pleasing, the upside to that in my life has been, right, so um I go to an interview. i will be the person that that person wants for the interview.
00:23:07
Speaker
So I can get the job. I am in the job. They want me to be this person. I will be that person. And i will...
00:23:18
Speaker
get better jobs and go up through the ranks earn more money and win awards and get the big jobs and all of that, right?
00:23:29
Speaker
and in Like, it weirdly... can make you very successful until because you turn into a chameleon don't you until until yes and you just become the thing that the environment wants you to be at that time and yeah and if you're kind of like you know skilled or smart or whatever you can make it work for you and that's yeah fine-ish until it all goes away right until so until yeah no one asks you you know uh what wants you to be anything in in particular and then you're like oh who the fuck am i i've just been this other person for like the last 20 years and it's it's been a mixed bag and i've got you know i bought a house and cars and shit and awesome but like
00:24:23
Speaker
Who am i I've been to paradise, but I've never been to me. Jim Carrey's been a very really interesting example of this. He just said he became, there was, ah there was um the person that people saw, Jim Carrey, on films became Jim Carrey.
00:24:46
Speaker
And there was no blur between him and the real Jim Carrey. There was no difference between the the um the one in the movies and the one in real life.
00:24:57
Speaker
And he completely lost his shit. Yeah. He did a... What was that movie where he was the comedian? um Yeah. It's a great film.
00:25:07
Speaker
Right. So he had to, like... He methodacted method to be... He methodacted as a famous comedian, American comedian. Yeah. like And he was in the sitcom, American sitcom called Taxi.
00:25:26
Speaker
Right. Kaufman. Kaufman. Kaufman. Right. Exactly. And that movie... fucked him up.
00:25:36
Speaker
Fucked up Jim Carrey because he just became, he just he would just like rewired his whole brain to be that person. Well, on Netflix, there's the making of that film.
00:25:47
Speaker
Oh. And you can literally so watch him like in a ah total mess. Right. there you go. He was literally in the taxi on the way to the set every day. was almost like 24 hours day.
00:26:05
Speaker
in the character of kaufman right yeah so there you go that's that's so that fawning i mean that's it's easy it's easy it seems like an exaggerated example but you know people pleasing is that you do anything to avoid um rejection sensitive dysphoria you know you do anything to accept reject to to re to avoid the rejection by just pleasing people right to the point where you totally lose a sense of who the fuck you are right but my point is that is that it's not just like oh it's simple to say yeah just don't do it because actually it weirdly our society it it
00:26:58
Speaker
It likes you to do that. It wants it's it it it it's really it it it it it rewards you for it. well How many people live a lie?
00:27:10
Speaker
I mean, come on. Almost everyone. Almost everyone lives a lie, you know? right Yeah, but if you can be the thing that the people around you want you to be and you're bloody good at it,
00:27:24
Speaker
Especially at work, professionally. Yeah. It's like, woohoo, win, win, win. Yeah, totally. But at a cost. Yeah. At a cost. At a cost because, I mean, I've i've said several times in different episodes of the podcast, I had a breakdown, mental bla breakdown when it was about 12 years ago.
00:27:50
Speaker
And I just completely, because this there's ah this there's a limit to how far you can go with that way of living. And I reached the end of it. Right.
00:28:01
Speaker
Totally, to the point where, and well, you know this story, Martin, but and and anyone who doesn't listen to all of the episodes, that i I was in a ah pharmacy one time, um just on a normal, you know,
00:28:15
Speaker
um visit to a pharmacy and there was this column a structural column inside the pharmacy that had glass from floor to ceiling on it and i looked and i caught my reflection in the glass and i was an empty vessel oh zimey and i it scared the hell out of me right but at the same time however traumatic that was We're talking about trauma.
00:28:46
Speaker
However traumatic it was, it's the best thing ever happened to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, there is. Even trauma itself has everything, has an upside to it.
00:29:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, every cloud has a silver lining, as I Right, if if you can work your way through that, then you're a better person. but Yeah, well, the if is the key word there, isn't it?
Starting Fresh with ADHD and Trauma
00:29:17
Speaker
right if I know people that have never worked it out or not not even started. yeah They're too scared to to start. yeah I know plenty of people.
00:29:30
Speaker
matt And then not necessarily, you know ah ah quite often near neurotypical as well. yep Or maybe even more likely to be neurotypical.
00:29:43
Speaker
I think the neurodiverse community are just... We're slightly more open to the idea of starting from scratch, you know? Right. And re-evaluating their lives. But there are more people whose lives have gone off the rails right who who are neurodivergent. So whether they end up in in prison or whether they don't make it out at all. So I i would think that... Prison is full of...
00:30:12
Speaker
Right. Neurodiverse community. Right. that and that That we suffer the most yeah for that. Yeah.
00:30:24
Speaker
And substance abuses, et cetera. Okay. Another thing that came out of it was maladaptive hyperfocus and splintered executive functioning. What is that, I you ask? I'm about to tell you what that is. When trauma introduces a profound sense of helplessness, the ADHD mind will often try to claw back a sense of control by weaponizing its capacity to hyperfocus.
00:30:53
Speaker
What does that look like? Well, I'm glad you asked. They may become obsessively consumed by a singular rigid project, a research rabbit hole, or a technical task to the complete exclusion of their basic physical needs, eating, sleeping, and hygiene.
00:31:11
Speaker
Right. Yeah, yeah. So that's like... Rabbit holes. That's like you can save the day, basically. It's that sort of Superman.
00:31:24
Speaker
I will swoop in and hyper-focus on something and everything will be absolutely fine yeah at the cost of everything else. Everything else. Yeah. or you go down the rabbit hole...
00:31:38
Speaker
And that rabbit hole, I mean, my rabbit holes could last sometimes months, right? If I was in a particular season with my with my job.
00:31:49
Speaker
You come out the other end, and I think there's some element of oh this hope it sorted itself out sorted itself out in the meantime, so don't have to deal with it when I come out the other end.
00:32:02
Speaker
right oh sense you mean like sort of avoiding ignore it hope it goes away that yeah ignoring tough stuff by hyper focusing on something else yeah yeah yeah i mean i am you i will put put my hand up to to that every day of the week yeah exactly so um what they're saying is that there's an there's a cumulative effect to all of these ways that we respond to trauma okay and they call it a structural loop what makes this so difficult is that the ADHD and trauma live in bi-directional loops okay the executive functioning deep deficits of ADHD make it harder to emotionally regulate and file away traumatic memories while the trauma itself actively worsens
00:33:01
Speaker
working memory and impulse control, making the baseline ADHD symptoms um feel significantly heavier. Right.
00:33:11
Speaker
ah but i was I was having this conversation the other day, which is like, yeah you you Yeah, you kind of get these traumas, right? And they build up over time.
00:33:23
Speaker
yeah and your And they're stored in your body generally and your and your in your nervous system.
00:33:36
Speaker
adapts itself to that. Yes.
Storing Trauma in the Body
00:33:40
Speaker
Yes. So that you're toxic it is. Right. It becomes a comfort blanket. Well, yeah yeah. I mean, you just kind of like your entire person. It becomes about.
00:33:52
Speaker
your trauma and and and trying to work, you know, trying to live a life with it, right? And your brain and your logical thinking are completely separate, right? there is So it's like, so i can I can think about having trauma and go, oh, yes, I do have trauma. i've had I have a narcissistic...
00:34:17
Speaker
who caused me all kinds of trauma but just knowing it doesn't isn't enough help no it's just like you need the language don't you need the language well it's you have to train your nervous system yeah into, you know, into kind of calming down when it gets believe it's are triggered and and you have to like change your entire life so that yeah so that actually you can function better. But just knowing your traumas. No, no, totally. It just doesn't solve anything.
00:34:56
Speaker
Well, much. There's ah another two aspects I think you need. are potentially shed loads of energy to sort it out. Yeah. i A lot of energy. You have to sleep well. of Exactly.
00:35:09
Speaker
You also need a lot of courage. Eat well. Because it's much easier it's much easier just to ignore it. Right. Exercise. And all these things, sleeping, eating, exercise, I was the saying, they get they they get sacrificed yeah oh ah early doors for other things. yeah and Or you have trouble sleeping, which a lot of people do.
00:35:34
Speaker
ah You know, and trouble having eating issues and will only like certain foods. yeah And they're not necessarily good for you particularly. so i was thinking also about mental energy as well. It's like when, if maybe tomorrow or one day I decide, okay, I'm going to go back into therapy.
00:35:55
Speaker
that requires a hell of a lot of mental energy. Right. You know, that every time you have an appointment, you're thinking, of well, if you think like I do, I want to make the most of the money that I'm spending. So I go in there with a plan, you know, and of what I want to say or what I don't want to say. um And I found that exhausting. When you stop, it's quite sort liberating, I found.
00:36:24
Speaker
But, okay, I can not think about that for a bit. Right. Because I can stop analyzing it. Right. Because that mental energy has to come from somewhere and it will come from sleep and food and exercise and all those other things. Right.
00:36:41
Speaker
And or and adapting your life so that you you you don't get worn down all the time by it, by it, by it, by things. Right. So. Yeah.
00:36:56
Speaker
yeah But there's a lot of people that don't do it. I'm convinced a lot of people don't do it because they are basically shit scared to start it. Well, not only that, not only that, because they may have a sense of, and I think I probably, add because when you start thinking about it, you go, oh, shit, you literally have to change things.
00:37:18
Speaker
everything everything yeah you have to start again almost yeah that's scary right your entire life i mean not only is it scary but it takes a lot of yeah thinking because it's like well okay So I have to have sleep. Right. Okay. Well, I'm getting really bad sleep. Why am I not getting bad sleep? Oh, because I go to bed really late. Why am I not going to bed really late? Oh, because of this, that, and the other. Oh, maybe I have to change X, Y, Z. Let's try that. Oh, that didn't work.
00:37:47
Speaker
Let me try this. maybe Maybe it's the food. Maybe I'm, maybe I have to change the food. Maybe i have to do this. So even, even going into it with like all the good intentions, it's requires a healthy,
00:38:02
Speaker
Plus, you're in a relationship if you're a relationship, or you have a family, young especially a young family to deal with, that's hard. That's yeah really hard. Because it's like i always say to people,
00:38:16
Speaker
Look, depression is a very, very um um egocentric place to be.
Depression's Impact on Relationships
00:38:24
Speaker
Selfish. It's a very selfish thing.
00:38:26
Speaker
Because it has to be. what pick pick because Because it just is. i mean It just is. You can't you you haven't got any... capacity to sort out anyone's anyone else's problems. and And that isn't a character fraud. I'm not saying that as ah as a... It's just how it is. It's just... it but Yeah, it's it's it's you. Which can be really hard on your partner or your family, you know.
00:38:51
Speaker
Right, because you've got your traumas, right, that you have and you're bringing these things into to a a ah you a relationship. and And not only do you have to like work on yourself, but yeah you're also your interaction with your partner because that they have their own staff.
00:39:12
Speaker
that they're working on perhaps, hopefully. Massively. And you've got the the dynamics between you two as as a whole other thing.
00:39:24
Speaker
Like, it's almost easier if you're single to go through it than it is to be like, it's harder. If you're really honest with your partner and your family just before you go into therapy, right?
00:39:40
Speaker
Especially is if you know that it's particularly something critical, like manic depression or something like that. The honest thing to say before you meet with your new psychologist is to say to your partner and your family, look, I'm going to be really fucking selfish for the next 18 months.
00:39:59
Speaker
Right. You know? And I'm sorry that that's going to happen, but that's just that us how it's going to be. Right. Which is not easy.
00:40:10
Speaker
i mean, it's easy to say, but not easy to do because because your entire life thus far, you've got kids or ah or a partner whatever, has been structured around you having a role.
00:40:25
Speaker
Right. Playing this role within it. And then you're saying, I'm not going to do that any anymore. Then everyone's like, what the fuck? So you're forcing them to change.
00:40:36
Speaker
Right. And they usually don't want to. So they'll fight you. so that you don't change even though you're going I'm going to be selfish and do this for me they'll be going oh hell no you won't yeah and they will fight you so now not only are you fighting yourself to to to kind of like you know but you have to fight your closest your nearest and dearest as well and often that's like you know what I can't I just can't do all of that
00:41:12
Speaker
Or the other thing that can happen is when I had my kind of like mental breakdown, I left my wife and therefore my my son was going through the trauma that he had of his parents splitting up.
00:41:28
Speaker
And I found it really difficult to be there for him at that point when he really needed a fucking adult, you know, yeah help him. And all he could see was like he saw me on a couple of the times when I was just in ah in a meltdown.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, no, I totally get you. So you've got all, no like so you you know, I am the the same and you end up with... Now you've got more trauma that you're adding on because now you're not there for your kid. And now you've got all the guilt.
00:42:00
Speaker
So that comes with it. So you're just now piling more stuff on. And then you've got your partner going, what the fuck are you doing? And it's like, oh, God, I've let you down as well. like, oh, jeez. Yeah, yeah. So trauma and more shame.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and Also, the worst kind of shame. You know, and there's a like people that, you know, kids that are, you know, the most innocent in right in or in all of this. And as part of you and your trauma, you're now potentially giving trauma to, know, your partners, your ex-partner now, or, you know, like, your kids.
00:42:39
Speaker
yeah You you're now spreading that fucking bullshit. around yeah yeah yeah in your attempt to try and sort yourself out. Oh, i do anyway. Yeah. It's it's anyway so yeah it's ah it's it's um it's a biggie,
ADHD Meltdown and Recovery
00:42:56
Speaker
isn't it? i mean, I kind of knew this subject was going to be a big one because, you know, trauma response is, um oh, ah one last anecdote, well, from my part anyway, one last anecdote. I remember the last time I had a meltdown
00:43:13
Speaker
And it was mentioned in another podcast ah when related to this you new research. This kind of thing was mentioned. I'll tell you what happened to me.
00:43:26
Speaker
The last time I had a meltdown, I got really anxious and nervous. And I started shouting and I was like like punching the wall and blah, blah, blah.
00:43:41
Speaker
And then... out of nowhere, I just completely snapped out of it really fast. Right. And they said that is a classic ADHD response to trauma.
00:43:54
Speaker
All right. And I felt shaming out. and I was thinking, kid what was that about? Was that all false? Was I making it all up? No, was because it was this kind of object permanence thing, you know,
00:44:07
Speaker
in In that one second, it wasn't a problem anymore. I just snapped out of it. Right. And you look back and go, what the hell was that all about? Yeah. and then you so I mean, that creates its own shame loop.
00:44:21
Speaker
like Yeah. Like, that was stupid. i was thinking, what did my partner think? it' just like suddenly seeing Paul snap out of it in one second, going from a meltdown to being completely okay.
00:44:35
Speaker
in a nanosecond. I was thinking, it what the fuck is that about? Weird. Very weird. But they they gave, they said it was quite a common thing in ADHD and autism.
00:44:48
Speaker
e yeah i Does that happen to you? Does that land? No, I tend to like i i tend to be a lot slower. I have to kind of come down by steps. I don't snap out of it.
00:45:04
Speaker
I just ramp down. Okay. Over time. Over time. Okay. Wow. That was a deep dive.
00:45:16
Speaker
It was a deep dive. e Alright, where the fuck am I in the in the in the script? Alright, so ah do we... i Is there any other... No, I'm i'm pretty i'm pretty much there.
00:45:32
Speaker
Alright. On the trauma response. Oh, good lord. Alright, well, let's go to our ratings and i see what we feel about this.
00:45:44
Speaker
Balance of time. Balance of time. Right, trauma and trauma responses. it a dopamine hit or is it a burnout thing? Oh, live with this one's easy, actually, isn't it?
00:45:58
Speaker
Dopamine zero, burnout 10. There you go. There we go. I think... Is there are a good side to it? No. Yes. well i ah Okay, look.
00:46:11
Speaker
I'm going to be the play devil's advocate, I guess. I've just thought of one. I've just thought of a positive. Go on, then. I know so all facets of my personality.
00:46:26
Speaker
Because I've lived out so much trauma in so many different ways. I know pretty much the my boundaries. Right. All right. That's the positive, isn't it? That that is, absolutely.
00:46:40
Speaker
So so i would say dopamine, I'd say trauma responses. Oh, God. this is the I mean, this is where take me with a pinch of salt, with a fistful of salt here, right? Right.
00:46:53
Speaker
Trauma responses are ways that make you deal with your and your anxiety, right? About yeah like various... Okay. and well it's It's a response. yeah It's what you do in in response to the so the traumas that you have.
00:47:12
Speaker
And you get a reward... from it. yeah So it's like in my in my example, my traumas have brought along a great deal of success in my life and nice things and money and all sorts of, you know, I've traveled the world, right? And it's mostly on the… And the seven seas… Right. And and my my sense of humor is a direct result of my trauma.
00:47:49
Speaker
So, yeah, and your true and your sense of humour sucks. It does. It's awful. My first psychologist said, Paul, you've had all of this trauma, but...
00:48:04
Speaker
That trauma has given you certain level of success, she said. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. So I'm saying that... Oh, God, yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
You know what? i and know i'm able to say I'm going to say i'mnna say burnout 10, right?
Trauma's Dual Role in Personal Growth
00:48:23
Speaker
It will get you. It will get you if you don't get you deal with it. It will get you. But the dopamine hit is is pretty good. I'd say it's like an eight.
00:48:34
Speaker
Right. Right. So now I'm changing my mind. Well done, Martin. Very good job. think there's quite a lot to add I've always been saying for the last three years, my sensitivity is my best friend and my worst enemy.
00:48:50
Speaker
Right. But I wouldn't be as sensitive as sensitive as I am had I not experienced so much trauma. Right. Exactly. So did my anden by sensitivity is my best friend.
00:49:04
Speaker
There is definitely an upside, but I would say... Fair enough, mate, fair enough. I would say caveat all of that, because if you don't deal with your trauma, you are in trouble.
00:49:16
Speaker
You will be in trouble. So, um yeah. Even if ignorance ignorance's bliss, mate, you know there's a lot people that are really good at pretending that nothing ever bad has ever happened. There's no regrets...
00:49:34
Speaker
and And it's completely bullshit. And sometimes i really envy them, but mostly I don't. I know. Jesus. It was it was like oh my my is like listening to my mum on her deathbed, right?
00:49:49
Speaker
My mum, who is a complete narcissist, would say, I've had a pretty good life. Yeah.
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's just been really, really good. You know, and I'm thinking, no, you were a fucking nightmare. You just caught shit all over the place.
00:50:11
Speaker
You didn't, you had to like a, well that's a classic narcissist isn't it cause trauma left right and center that's the classic last narcissist because they cannot ever bear to um face up to their their um um yeah their reality and their reality right yeah he buried all right buried right well okay excellent stuff in the tractor
00:50:49
Speaker
make her way over to and she's left a note and uh yes martin and it was rather rather long It's a
Listener Interactions and Feedback
00:51:02
Speaker
word. Well, I'll shorten it.
00:51:04
Speaker
She said she screamed with joy when she saw the title of the episode. Love it, she said. So if you go back to the last episode, it's about um ah composure. Ah, that's about Room 101. Room 101, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:51:20
Speaker
um And so she said she she sch was, I like this. She said she wants to put her co co-worker in Room 101. So, yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? she's Sounds like she's having a nightmare with a yeah with one of her co-workers.
00:51:40
Speaker
This sounds horrendous. right coach yeah She says that she wants to slap her. Right. So I've pulled up ah the ah the Room 101.
00:51:52
Speaker
to judge and I've basically copied and pasted um ah what Alexandra said about her co-worker and we'll see whether it whether we can put her co-worker into room 101 or not and it comes back as yes You can put your coworker in Room 101. It says the reason is not not because you hate her, and not because you wanted to slap her. The court strongly dis discourages workplace assault, no matter how tempting the fantasy may be, but because there is a special category of colleague whose superpower is turning ordinary interactions into unpleasant experiences.
00:52:39
Speaker
so yeah apparently apparently alexandra said she even said it out loud that she wanted to slap her that's a nightmare well i know it's now so she's she's now banished so uh you can feel good about about about that that's good but the para The power of being um the co-mayors of ADHD, we can do these things. Right.
00:53:06
Speaker
So ah if you've got any comments about this ah epi episode or any of our other episodes, ah get into ah YouTube youtube um or where you get your podcasts and make some comments and we'll...
00:53:21
Speaker
And what will we do, Paul? we might we might We might read them out on a future podcast. Oh, marvellous. All right, let's crack on and go to the quiz. It's a quiz.
00:53:35
Speaker
It's a quiz. It's a quiz where Paul and I like the echo effect that you put on your voice then. It makes you sound really I'm like mysterious and professional.
00:53:47
Speaker
um national ah So Paul and I, um we we ask each, we we take take turns to ask each other like ah sort of two truths and a life format kind of thing. yes And it's the first to 10 and we are currently at five each.
00:54:04
Speaker
So it's even Stevens going into this round. Small square. And it's your turn to ask the questions. And the theme is, um strangely much, the theme is um trauma.
00:54:17
Speaker
Okay. manage Trauma management. Hello, Eddie. Oh, is he in the background? Oh, yeah. He's in the background. Yeah. He looks very wobbly. Yeah.
00:54:28
Speaker
he He's his his's old. Bless him. Okay. Anyway, so, Martin. Yeah. I'm going to... We're going to talk about three different famous people that so um demonstrated ah trauma in different ways.
00:54:49
Speaker
Okay. Okay? All right. And you have to um decipher... from their trauma experience, how it um um how it ah how it was borne out, what kind of trauma did they display.
00:55:08
Speaker
Okay. How would you categorize it? Anyway. Okay. It will be clear as we go through All right. So we start with the first one. Frida Kahlo Martin, Frida Kahlo, famous miss Mexican artist, okay? she channel She channeled her immense physical pain and emotional trauma from her relationship with Diego Rivera into raw visceral paintings, Martin.
00:55:36
Speaker
aha In psychodynamic terms, transforming traumatic pain into culturally available art is known as Which defence mechanism?
00:55:48
Speaker
ah okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I'm tracking. A, fawning. Okay, what it, a fawning thing? All right. B, sublimation. All right.
00:56:03
Speaker
C, disassociation. Or D, fight. There's four categories, I'm cheating. What? fawning, sublimation, disassociation or fight.
00:56:20
Speaker
So she channeled her immense physical pain into a creative channel. Oh, okay. Eddie's been really quiet for 140 episodes. That's the first time I've heard him bark. I know he's barking. Hang on, hang on. First time I've heard him bark, ever. I know, I know. I'm just going to let him out the door.
00:56:50
Speaker
Oh no, he's coming back around. I would say, i'm going to say fight. It is a fight risk risk response. I can understand why you said that, but you're wrong.
00:57:04
Speaker
It's supplementation. This adaptive defense mechanism converts unmanageable traumatic or instinctual impulses into socially productive and creative outlets.
00:57:16
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Next one. Next one. Marilyn Monroe, Martin. Marilyn Monroe, okay. They're all women, actually, just so you know.
00:57:31
Speaker
Many biographers note that Marilyn Monroe frequently altered her vocal register to a breathy, childlike whisper.
00:57:43
Speaker
It's a famous word, right? Happy birthday you. yeah Okay. and And adopted a highly compliant non-threatening persona when dealing with abusive studio executives.
00:57:56
Speaker
yeah In complex trauma theory, this unconscious shifting of our identity to minimize danger is called yeah oh okay somatization,
00:58:07
Speaker
okay hysterical fight, depersonalization, right or D, trauma-induced fawning.
00:58:22
Speaker
It definitely feels like trauma-induced fawning, surely. Correct.
00:58:30
Speaker
It says, modifying one's voice, stature, and desires to appear completely non-threatening softens the aggressions of dominant figures.
00:58:45
Speaker
He's quite aware. Nice. All right. So next question. Next question. Joan of Arc. This is an interesting one. Uh-huh.
00:58:57
Speaker
Historical accounts of Joan of Arc describe her as entering states of profound, unbothered calm. A bit like you, Martin.
00:59:08
Speaker
And experienced vivid auditory and visual visions during brutal military seizures or intense hostile inter interrogations. Yes.
00:59:20
Speaker
From modern trauma perspective, what psychological buffer does this suggest? Okay. A, somatic hyperarousal. Okay.
00:59:31
Speaker
so B, behavioral fawning. No. C, active analytical flight.
00:59:43
Speaker
No. Or D, compartmentalized disassociation. Last one. Bravo! Yes. Exactly. says, the mind detaches from immediate terrifying environmental data by shifting consciousness into a safer internal or spiritual landscape.
01:00:05
Speaker
Yep. I thought this was interesting. A bit easy, but interesting. There are like so many different ways that people manage their trauma.
01:00:17
Speaker
I thought it was quite interesting. That puts me at six and you at five. um So I am one ahead going into next week.
01:00:28
Speaker
um So speaking of next next next week, next week's episode, let's talk about that. um Yes. So I thought let's talk about that it's my turn.
01:00:41
Speaker
It's my turn, mister. um I thought as we were heading into the summer at full speed, and those days are getting hot, I thought we were talking about ADHD and the vacation paradox. Now, the vacation paradox is like you're stressed, you go on vacation or or a holiday if you're a Brit, um and you' and you're still stressed.
01:01:10
Speaker
Yes. all throughout yeah Or even more stressed. Yeah. Like vacations can stress you. And then you come back and you're like, God, i need a vacation from my vacation. Yeah.
01:01:25
Speaker
Okay, good one. So we're going to talk about that and maybe I'll i'll i'll come up with a couple of ah things that that we can all do just to try and chill out. God, the wind's blowing in the... Blimey, that was... Separate holidays. Yeah.
01:01:41
Speaker
All right. So... said I'm looking forward to ah to that. So that just leaves me to say ADHD VOL is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us as the least traumatic podcast ever.
01:02:04
Speaker
in the world. Yeah, why not? Why not? And feel free could to correspond at will in the comments. But wait, there's more. If you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces from Sally Forst and YouTubes and the TikToks.
01:02:20
Speaker
Or Sally Fields. And you can pick up a quill and email us at adhdpill at gmail.com. But in the meantime, be fucking kind to yourself. and I just see you fellow ADHDers fairly well with Gladys of Art.
01:02:36
Speaker
There. Especially Eddie. That's that. Yeah, yeah. Eddie 16 June the 17th. So, roughly. June 17th, 2026. and on june the seventeenth so play whenever you're ah june the seventeenth twenty
01:02:53
Speaker
There we go. All right. Lovely. I've got to carry on doing some jet washing now.
01:03:05
Speaker
Jet washing? OK. You know those jet washing machines with the yeah powered water? The driveway. I'm doing the area around the pool. OK. So, yeah. Nice.
01:03:18
Speaker
I like jet washing.