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Episode 133 - ADHD & Retirement: Time Blindness Meets the Longest Weekend of Your Life
49 Plays10 days ago
So… retirement.
For some people, it used to be a gold watch, a carriage clock, and finally some peace and quiet.
For the ADHD brain?
It’s time blindness on steroids, a sudden identity crisis, and way too many hours to overthink everything.
In this episode, we’re asking the big questions:
What happens when you stop doing the job that defined you?
Can you retire without losing your mind, or just losing your keys constantly?
And is it true that ADHDers are statistically more likely to die holding in a pee at a royal banquet? (Probably not. But we found some weird deaths anyway.)
From supermarket jobs to DoorDash, from burnt-out creative directors to 93-year-old painters doing their best work — we’re talking about retirement, semi-retirement, and the weird, unmasked, slightly creaky-kneed reality of getting older with ADHD.
Oh, and there’s a quiz about famous people who “retired from life” in spectacularly stupid ways.
So grab a cheese sandwich (no pickle, you absolute rebel), settle in, and let’s take the old tractor for a spin.
New episodes every Tuesday.
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ADHDville, the podcast where hosts Paul and Martin bring 40 years of friendship to your ears. As late-diagnosed adults, they explore the ADHD world with fun, games, and the occasional guest—no boring lectures, just a comfortable and hilarious conversation you’d have with old friends. A new episode drops every Tuesday to make your week brighter!
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Theme music was written by Freddie Philips and played by Martin West. All other music by Martin West.
Please remember: This is an entertainment podcast about ADHD and does not substitute for individualized advice from qualified health professionals.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
We're in. We're in. We're in. Back in the room. Jesus. Back in
Podcast Introduction & Preparation
00:00:03
Speaker
the room. You know what? Once again, I'm surprised about the start. Even though I hit the button that says record.
00:00:12
Speaker
Right. Which is usually, you know, we've done it 130 times yeah and've and i've once again caught myself out again okay with your own your own efficiency yeah yeah oh anyway all right let me just let me just get my my little script ready here we go okay all right okay Where are we going, Martin?
00:00:38
Speaker
Wait, what? No. I have to do the whole front end bit first. I know. Where are we going? Oh, I see. oh yes ah I was improvising.
00:00:51
Speaker
I was improvising. I thought we that that you jumped down in the script. It's like, where are we going? Oh, we're going to the to the coffee shop today. what I thought you were doing that bit. I know. It was shameful improvisation. Shameless.
00:01:09
Speaker
All right. Here we go. Here we go. let's let's Let's herd these podcast cats. Yes. and and So are we going, Martin? Well, let's go to place where the distractions are landmarks and the details are the main road.
Introduction of Hosts and Topic: Retirement
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome to ODA, Stephen.
00:01:27
Speaker
Sounds like a great idea. Let's go there. Let's go. episode
00:01:55
Speaker
and the D again dragging kicking and screaming Towards almost three years ago. And I'm Martin West and I was officially diagnosed with the combined ADHD poo-poo platter in 2013 and self-diagnosed autistic. And here we are, the co-mayors of ADHDville. Hello.
00:02:13
Speaker
Hanging out in the King's Agitated Head pub in ADHDville where we take care of business. Yes. So what is business today, Martin?
00:02:24
Speaker
Well, we see now we're going to be talking about what happens after the whole business thing,
Perceptions of Retirement Across Generations
00:02:29
Speaker
right? this yes is we're we we're we're we're We're going to be talking about that that thing, that thing called retirement.
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah. in ah in ah In a very loose way. Yeah. It sounds weird, doesn't it? It sounds like, oh that's surprising. It sounds like you may as well say, I'll go to that place where people go to die.
00:02:53
Speaker
Well, yeah. but it doesn't have to be like that. You know what? it's it's At some point in my life, I realized when I thought about getting old or being old or whatever, it was like I would look at my grandparents, right, for it for example, and I would kind of go oh, that's what it is.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yes. But actually... as I realised, it's just me, yeah the same person, ah just getting older, um but but still doing the same shit and doing the same stuff. Yeah.
00:03:29
Speaker
Well, it's become ah it's a modern phenomenon, isn't it? It's um already happening before, like, one generation before us. It's already been called, like, the silver generation, where it's the for the first time, people in their seventy s and even eighty s of kind of like doing stuff, unashamedly, like doing stuff.
00:03:52
Speaker
Like, you know, maybe even doing more stuff than they ever did before, you know. Right. I mean, um obviously my my mind goes to the yeah a couple of years ago there was lots of news stories about um sexually transmitted is diseases being rife in no way in in old...
00:04:15
Speaker
people's homes no way yes way okay it was apparently it's all going on in really yeah My son is working, he's been working in the last four months in a German old people's home.
00:04:34
Speaker
So I'd love to ask him. Absolutely. get get Get some inside tea. Get some gossip. All right. Well, ah lets let's jump in our in our very old but still reliable tractor.
00:04:48
Speaker
and Not yet retired tractor. Absolutely.
Retirement Lifestyle and Cultural Reflections
00:04:51
Speaker
um ah Where are we going? thought we'd go to the park bench. It's like a good place, Martin, to kind of, you know, to kind of reflect.
00:05:02
Speaker
Right. It's where all the old people go. Right. With their sandwiches and their thermos. Right. So let's head out there.
00:05:21
Speaker
Going to the park. Going to the park. A nice day. Nice day for a stroll around the park, isn't it? Well, do you know what? Our grandparents, do you know what they used to do? i mean, this may be a bit of a shocker to people that are not from the UK. But our grandparents, what did they do with their free time when they were retired? They were driving their Ford Anglia down to the coast...
00:05:50
Speaker
Get the on the, what do you call it? looking Park looking out to the sea. Yeah. Probably haven't even exchanged a single word of conversation. Probably. Break open this the Tupperware.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah. Get out the sandwiches, the thermos flower. Sit there and eat them, not still not exchanging the word, finishing said sandwich and sandwich.
00:06:16
Speaker
Thermos flies and drive back home again. That was it. That was their like, you know, trip to the seaside. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Very limited sense of, you know, what they could do with their retirement.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I may ah let me think, ah my my my very autistic granddad who had cheese sandwiches every day for his entire working life, um I suspect here he also carried on having cheese sandwiches for every day of his entire retired life as well.
00:06:54
Speaker
um Right. but Cheese with the pickle or just cheese? Yeah. No, was just just straight up, I believe, it was just cheese. Cheese sandwich. If you were adding a pickle, that's like continental. That's like very European. That's very racy, very spicy. I don't want any of that. I don't want any of that in my sandwich.
00:07:14
Speaker
that What's really funny, though, is that that's so that's so British as well. A cheese sandwich. No one in Italy would have a cheese sandwich. That's like saying, oh, I'm going to have, I don't know, like in Italy, you'd never say, um oh let's have a glass of wine. You'd be specific. You'd say, oh I'll have a piece of, you wouldn't say cheese. You'd say, I'll have, what about a piece of gorgonzola? Or what about something other? otherwise it was A cheese sandwich. I mean, how plain can you get? Well, look, I mean, pauls back then. It's like saying a meat. It's like saying I'm going to have a a meat sandwich. Well, look, mate.
00:08:01
Speaker
You have to think back then there was only one cheese. It was cheddar and that was it. Yeah. And yeah, and yeah any other cheese was like, ooh, fancy, fancy.
00:08:12
Speaker
No. Right. Yeah. There wasn't even like red Leicester was like probably after cheddar, there was maybe you had the option of red Leicester in the late seventies, early eighties. Yeah. but Yeah. You're right. It was just cheddar. Yeah.
Changing Work Expectations and Retirement Identity
00:08:27
Speaker
Right. And if you're talking about a meat sandwich, it was ham, sliced ham. That was it. Right. That was the only thing. Or, no, wait, it could be, well, in our family, you would have, what's what's it what's it called?
00:08:43
Speaker
Oh, bloody hell. It came in a can. Spam? No. Corned beef. Corned beef. Corned beef sandwich. Mm-hmm.
00:08:56
Speaker
Very nice. You know what? In in Cuba, Mr. Thompson, when when we were there, I distinctly remember there was like a little street vendor and was a bit hungry, so I went over to kind of see what he had.
00:09:15
Speaker
he had He had ham and cheese roll. Right. Cheese roll. Right. Ham roll. and roll.
00:09:28
Speaker
No. He had he had all the all the possible combinations of that of a ham and cheese cheese roll. Oh, my God. Yeah. Even my dad, he used to have everything. If we went camping, everything was in a can.
00:09:48
Speaker
He would have eaten bri English breakfast in a can. Or um he would have, and he he sent me a text message ah only about two months ago, said he had a can of chunky chicken and rice.
00:10:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Chunky chicken rice from Marks and Spencer's. And he said it was wonderful. Dear Paul. Chunky chicken. ah Today. get Spaghetti Bolognese. My neighbor would eat at least two or three times a week spag it's spag behind spaghetti Bolognese in a tin two or three times a week.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, easy. Easy food. Easy food. um All right, let's get back to the subject of retirement. I was just going to say that my granddad went from being like a crane operator to to he retired and became a retired crater parade to a school janitor that was okay that was his thing um yeah like hong kong phooey uh yes exactly like hong kong phooey
00:11:03
Speaker
You know what i I did have on my desk, I had the, um my ah this was a thing that you used to happen, was that when you retired in the olden days, you used to get a gift.
00:11:17
Speaker
Sometimes it was a carriage clock and it was after the clock. Or, um yeah, or you get...
00:11:29
Speaker
A carriage clock, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. carriage clock. And I did have my mike my granddad's... He had like a watch a watch pocket and it was and it's just over here somewhere, but I can't find it, so I'm i'm not going to do that.
00:11:47
Speaker
but so i Yeah, go on. But, yeah. and then know so So, yeah. so i think I think just to kind of bring it – I was having a conversation with my gym trainer, my personal trainer called called David,
00:12:09
Speaker
um and we were talking about this, and the other. Yeah. And i for some reason, we got onto the subject of, like, he says, oh, I have a lot of writtent written retired people here. And he's like, ah he was asking me, if I'm ri retired, I'm like, something no, I'm kind of semi-retired. I'm still trying to do work, but, I mean, um and i would happily work full tough time, but um but, you know, I'm kind of, like, just scratching around at the moment. um And he was saying, yeah, I have lots of, you know, like,
00:12:45
Speaker
uh retired people and you know and they and they don't know what to do with their time and i was like well yeah well you have that but but the main thing is as far as was concerned is that is that the the big thing is is that if you've worked all your entire career say as a creative director as me Yeah. um or like Or an accountant or whatever. When you retire, you no longer do that thing and you don't know who you are any anymore.
00:13:18
Speaker
Right. I know that this is not necessarily... i know because you have more of a sort of a... ah You know, you're... You've been less like an office career job for like decades. Yes.
00:13:35
Speaker
You've been more floating around. But it's it's a good point. I've always... found it interesting how, you know, gore only going back one generation, like my father, and then for sure, my grandfather, all they had to do for all of their lives was be good at their job.
00:13:56
Speaker
That was it. That was at the beginning and the end of their definition of you know what it meant to be you know a human being on this planet.
00:14:07
Speaker
Now with our generation onwards, you have to be... It's it's not it was't not good enough anymore just to be good at your job. You've got to be a good brother, a good uncle, a good son, a good father, a good lover, a good friend. And it's like a lot of men that get to that. I think this is where men especially get to a point when they have a um midlife crisis. It's like, it's like oh, I've only been good a good architect or whatever until this point. And now thinking it's not enough.
00:14:48
Speaker
But I've never really taken care of any other part of me, you know? Right. And it's like, oh, is that it? I thought it was just enough to be a good architect or whatever all my life. And now thinking I feel strangely empty.
Planning Retirement with ADHD Challenges
00:15:06
Speaker
Oh, well, you know what? It's funny because I saw a documentary a while ago about an architect. and that and And it was at at at the end of his career and the and the interviewer said something like, you know, like, well, you've you've spent so much time, you know, a designing amazing buildings. Do you kind of feel like who you neglected? every Right, there you go. and Everything else.
00:15:35
Speaker
and yet And he was like, yeah, and I'm completely fine with that. Yeah, because in that what it was so of a certain age, I suppose. Yeah, it was like, yeah, no, I i should ah chose to design buildings and i'm and um yeah and i'm and I'm happy that I spent my life doing it at the expense of everything else.
00:15:58
Speaker
I mean, apart from being a generational thing, it's a cop-out. It's a cop-out. Women are much better at it. Women are much better at taking care of being the sister, the mother, the lover, the mother, you know. you know They're much better at taking care, especially friends.
00:16:19
Speaker
Even in the ADHD autism community, much better than we are. So, um yeah, no, it's interesting, isn't it? yes so Yeah, i mean I mean, I struggled through that. So when I when i stopped being a creative director, so that was like when when ah lockdown happened in COVID and then right um i I lost my job. And then then for that then after that, I was never employed full time. And then I went through a whole thing of like, I don't know who I am now.
00:16:54
Speaker
Who am I? Who am I? I had to kind like do a lot of that. Yeah. I think men, i mean, we concentrate a bit, a lot on on men, but I think men as a definition, you know, of a gen of gender, a gender definition at moment, are in having a crisis, Martin.
00:17:18
Speaker
Right. they don't They don't know really. you know From one generation to another, in very little time, a lot more is expected of men than that it was in the past. you know Expectations were pretty low in terms men just being good at the job. and It's like, you know finish their job, turn up, rock up at home, and dinner was on the table.
00:17:40
Speaker
I know. their pipe and go to bed. you know know ya Yeah, for sure. um ah I think that the other thing that strikes me about ADHD, especially in time blindness and retirement is we are not good generally about planning for a retirement that could be decades away Right. right And you're not necessarily like thinking, OK, well, i have to set up some systems. i have to set up a like ah a retirement account. I have to like, and you know, because but but because it's like so far away that it doesn't exist. like
00:18:25
Speaker
Right. like the Object permanence, isn't it? It's the opposite of object object permanence. Right, this this whole, the yeah, that it's it's it's a it's a time blindness. It it it doesn't exist.
00:18:38
Speaker
yeah um And you don't plan for it. If it's not now, doesn't exist. Right. And if you live in a country where you don't have a good or an adequate, you know, like state um healthcare care system, America doesn't.
Support Systems and Capitalism's Youth Focus
00:18:55
Speaker
um It means that, that you know, i I'm pretty sure that dirts ADHD people will find themselves like in a bit of a hole know when they're massively yeah and they kind of come into the 60s and like oh shit also but also support v like for i'll give you an example the italian government give a lot of support to um for example in in order of um of in order of um focus okay if you're a young female in italy there are loads of um you get loads of support you know if you want to start up a new business and you're a young woman you're pretty much the kind like first up you know terms of um you know getting some kind of help
00:19:49
Speaker
from the government, you know, that with the if you want to get extra training and blah, blah. Great. Excellent. If you're a young male, um you kind that's the next thing up.
00:20:00
Speaker
OK. And so on and so forth. But until you get to being a male and you're 59 like me, you get nothing. nothing you've got nothing it's like you you're like you know this like you're in a kind of um in a kind of a little tunnel it's like holy shit and you're feeling like i don't know there's nothing here i i could see for example martin in the uk there's more support There's more support maybe for people of our age who are looking to get retrained in something, getting some help, you know, maybe, um you know, you can get some, what's the word? you get Training? there's re Retrained? Retraining and all kinds of things, grants, maybe for starting a new business, you know. oh okay. Okay.
00:20:57
Speaker
oh There are all kinds of, some kind of helping hand. There's nothing in Italy. Nothing at all. yeah In America, what's it like in the kind of, if you are, because we're supposed to work until we're in our 70s, right?
00:21:10
Speaker
Right. We're supposed to, you know, if you're unlucky, you've not had, you know, you may be economically, you can't afford to retire until you're 70 or 72, whatever. Right.
00:21:24
Speaker
What's it like in the States? ah It's not great. Not great. Again, you know, like a capitalist so a capitalist a society will always, um you know, like focus its effort on, you know, like building, you know, like on the younger people.
00:21:42
Speaker
people and and men especially and, you know, starting businesses as you as you say. But, you know, but but when you fall out of the kind of like, you know, making money period of your life and you go into like a taking money, then they are less interested in you.
00:22:02
Speaker
um I mean, you know, when when I say taking money, it's money that... I have already put into the system actually through my my my taxes and payroll and all of that stuff. that'm I'm just taking that out.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We were talking, Martin, last week or two weeks ago about, you know, maybe getting a job, you know, we talked about getting a job in a supermarket. It's the first thing that came to mind.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yes. And in fact, um Alexandra, um as as yeah She started working in the supermarket. And I'm coming around to the idea of getting some kind of job, even if it's to just to get me out there, you know, getting me out of the house, getting, you know, because that's it's not healthy to stay, you know, kind of like staying too long in front of a computer at home.
00:23:00
Speaker
Right. know I mean, yeah, because i've I've, did I say this last week? But i'm I've signed up to do a DoorDash service, which is like... Oh, you mentioned it, yeah. well all Right. So um so um I will probably be picking that back up after my current...
00:23:20
Speaker
job And, you know, and and i I was talking to you a little bit just before biff before I hit the big red record button. yeah But, um yeah, I picked up a job last week for a big phone manufacturer to do work at the Olympic Games in l L.A.
00:23:42
Speaker
And it's a big client, big event, big agencies, and all of that stuff, right, which is which was my bread and butter.
00:23:53
Speaker
That was my little sweet spot. That's what I used to do. And I haven't done that for a while, and and and i and I'm really struggling to get my my brain is now refusing to work in that way anymore. Mm-hmm.
00:24:15
Speaker
Like I'm happy to do smaller stuff, you know, just kind of like, you know, projects that I get, right, that I just mine and i and and I do the project and then I send it off.
00:24:30
Speaker
That's fine. It's the big agencies, lots of moving parts, many people, hundred page decks with everyone kind of like throwing things in.
Career Transitions and Burnout Recovery
00:24:41
Speaker
yeah it's It's all um a mad panic. no you know like There's no real structure. I'm...
00:24:48
Speaker
i'm i'm I'm an external person, a freelance person and trying to kind of contribute to this chaos. So it isn't mine. It's not my – it isn't my circus. I don't own it. I'm just like trying to fucking juggle balls over here in the corner. Good analogy.
00:25:08
Speaker
Good analogy. Thank you. um am my And my brain is going, nope. Not interesting. You're standing in the corner like Coco the Clown. And you right you're like relevant in the 70s. Right. And now... Your little performances.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. And now it's just fucking useless. It's a different sector now, though, I think. if For me, it's easier for me to to think of it as like what the industry that I worked in isn't the same one anymore.
00:25:39
Speaker
It doesn't exist anymore. bad work It's its hold is barely hanging on to the kind of agency environment that I used to know. you know right but to me, it's much more process orientated now.
00:25:55
Speaker
Right. I mean, i yeah, I think that the lesson I'm learning is is once you come out of, you know, if you've had a kind of a job or career and you burnt out, right, and then you healed,
00:26:11
Speaker
Yeah. You can't go back. No. To the thing that burnt you out. Yeah. ay I mean, I was like, i was i was in a right state this this did this this morning. i was like, I'm just going to quit. I'm just going to quit this thing because because i can't.
00:26:29
Speaker
i can't do that work anymore i mean i can do the work individually as as i said like if if someone say i need a brochure i need a a branding thing done yeah absolutely but those big huge global jobs i know what you mean i i applied a couple of times for jobs like as being creative director of a big agency, you know, in the last few months.
00:26:58
Speaker
And I applied for the job because, ah you know, but really, I don't want it. If I'm honest, I don't want that job at all. I don't. If they say that suddenly came up to me, they called me. It's like, holy crap, Paul, we've just got your CV.
00:27:14
Speaker
Holy crap. You're just perfect for us. Can you start tomorrow? I'd be like, oh, shit. but actually i don't know if i want the job i'm really sorry okay well let's pay you another 20 000 more yeah exactly and no that's your eyes are bleeding i know it totally yeah it's not the same business anymore i found
00:27:48
Speaker
Um, I, it's, I don't know. It's hard to describe really. Yeah. But it's, yeah, ah the only way I've found to, to define the problem I have is just like, Paul, just give it up. It's not the same business anymore.
00:28:06
Speaker
You know, the dynamics have changed. It's more process orientated.
AI's Impact on the Creative Industry
00:28:10
Speaker
Um, less fucks are given about the actual quality of the work, you know, In in my in the ninety s you know when there was a sweet spot with agency work, you know going up to the you know you late 90s, when there was a sweet spot, it was all about the quality of the ideas.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yep. The process was a fairly small element of it. Now it's 90% And, oh, if there's a good idea, oh that that's just a bonus.
00:28:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I know. literally pulling up AI going, copy and paste the brief into AI. right ai you are the the the the the creative director.
00:28:57
Speaker
um um Answer this brief. Okay, cool. I like this bit. I like this bit. like this bit. Right, let's put that into a deck. Yeah. um It's fucking shit. um Yeah, but the problem is, well, are just to on the AI bit,
00:29:14
Speaker
it They say that graphic is what the advertising world and communication is one of the most one of the one of the professions most at risk from AI.
00:29:26
Speaker
Personally, I think it's exactly because of this problem that it's become so process-orientated that if a if someone comes up with an algorithm, you know, with an AI solution... for doing that job now, then we've only got ourselves to blame because we we we became a slave to anc a kind of a process, you know? yeah mean thus If you've sold your soul to to to the process, then if you get replaced by it,
00:29:53
Speaker
then we've only got ourselves to blame, I think. That's my thinking. No, I mean, you know well, I wouldn't say it's it's we've only got our ourselves to blame, but, you know, for sure. I mean, it's, you know, it's ah and know but buck bo because what happens is, for for example, I'm required to do a month's work in in a week.
00:30:17
Speaker
on my own without a copywriter, without an art director, without a graphic designer, right? So I'm now time starved beyond time starved and I'm now going, well, the only way through this is right beside I have to have AI there to kind of just yeah just get me through some of that conceptual thing.
00:30:41
Speaker
I did something recently as well from a big pharma company farmer brand based in Brussels. And I was given three days to come up with with something that would normally I'd be given a week to do.
00:30:56
Speaker
And completely, no no not 100% working by myself, because the the campaign was in Dutch and French. So they were doing most of the copywriting.
00:31:08
Speaker
But still, you know, the rest of it was up to me. Mm-hmm. And it was a bit of wrapping the headlights. Yeah. So anyway, so that's, that's the kind of the practical part of kind of what we're talking about.
Keeping Minds Engaged Post-Retirement
00:31:23
Speaker
But there's also the philosophical part that I wanted to touch on as well. um In terms of, okay, so you've, um let's say you're like us and you're late diagnosed or in our case, very late diagnosed ADHD and ADHD.
00:31:41
Speaker
self-diagnosed autistic, right? What do you do with those busy minds? You know, that suddenly you don't have a job and you've got way too much free time for those busy minds.
00:31:56
Speaker
What do you do with it? ah you You start a podcast, mate. Oh, right. Okay. Okay. do you saying you want to do a daily podcast? Is that you're saying? God. Is that what you're saying? that what you're seeing? That's what you're seeing, man. that Where are you going with this?
00:32:13
Speaker
ah and So what, have you got something in your mind, Martin, in your mind? your mind. for what you're going to do Well, I mean, it is basically what I do do.
00:32:24
Speaker
so are you doing it already? i don't have a particular issue about what am I going to do because it's just all the same shit that I already do. So, you know.
00:32:36
Speaker
I just do creative stuff. I write music. I go out in the garden and plant plants and talk to my friends um online and and, yeah, you know, do the housework.
00:32:48
Speaker
it's so heavy It's all the same stuff. Right. But did you, i mean, I remember thinking years ago, thinking, oh, I'm going to travel the world when I retire. I'm less like that now.
00:33:02
Speaker
right i'm the less inclined to kind of like i do want to go to india at some point okay yeah that's a thing that's a thing and maybe i've got another trip to cuba in you know in my you know that i'd like to do right um or africa or all three but apart from that Apart from those continents. Apart from that. and that kind Because there's a thing here. I did a bit of research on this. There's a, call it the 2026 perspective.
00:33:38
Speaker
Okay. People that are in their later years, maybe retirement or semi-retirement, Living within limits on purpose. Okay, what does that mean? Okay, they're calling it orientation over optimization. So it's basically what they're talking about. So when you get to retirement age or semi-retirement, we're spreading ourselves out less thinly. and maybe pointing or focusing on something.
Positive Perspectives on Aging and Accomplishments
00:34:08
Speaker
So for you, for example, it could be, okay, I'm going to write some short stories yeah or I'm going to write some music. And all of a sudden you have the luxury of being able to be really focused on something that you never had that the luxury of doing in but in the past.
00:34:25
Speaker
Right. you know what I Yeah, yeah. I've got some examples here of that. Okay. kind of a more Something I found yesterday, there's ah an artist in New York called Joan Semel.
00:34:40
Speaker
She's got a ah um and a studio in so in Soho in New York. She's 93. She's saying she's doing the best work of her life at the moment.
00:34:51
Speaker
She does like self-portraits, you know, celebrating almost like celebratory approach to her ageing, you know, but sort of basically um nude paintings of herself, her new self, which is amazing. I thought that's really, really cool.
00:35:10
Speaker
But also, historically, Giuseppe Verdi, okay, composer, composer, he He composed some of his best work when he was... He he composed Othello when he was 74.
00:35:24
Speaker
And when he was 80, he composed Full Staff, which is like one of his most famous pieces of work. Or there's another one here, Martin.
00:35:36
Speaker
Peter Roger. Okay. He wrote Roger's Thesaurus when he was 73. Oh, yeah. He decided what the world needs is a thesaurus. And he wrote the first thesaurus when he was 73.
00:35:51
Speaker
Blimey.
00:35:53
Speaker
Or, this guy here, ah famous Japanese tracker, um he reached the mount he he reached the summit of Mount Everest at the age of 80.
00:36:06
Speaker
And he still leads expeditions up Everest in his 90s, Martin. Bastard. I mean, that's phenomenal. It is phenomenal.
00:36:17
Speaker
i i I do tend to look down on people who climb who climb Everest, however. I know what you mean. Selfish bastards.
00:36:28
Speaker
i share I share your opinion. Yeah. I share your opinion, yeah. ah But sure. Yeah. Getting out there doing things. it's Right.
Generational Views on Work and Retirement
00:36:42
Speaker
Oh, blimey. So mean it sounds like you've you've got projects on the go, Martin. You've got various irons in the fire. Yeah. yeah You're not going to be slacking in your retirement.
00:36:55
Speaker
No. I mean, yeah I mean, i'm i'm I'm just, as I said, I'm just trying to like, ah need to kind of still need to find work. really um so it's just kind of like okay let's see see what what can suit me because you know as i've just this discovered this week i can't go back to doing what i used to do so yeah it's like okay right then that's off the table i can't work full time in an in an office at an ad agency or a company like like that i
00:37:28
Speaker
my my My brain doesn't work that way anymore. So, right. What am I going to do? For me, Martin, even working on a computer with a certain intensely for a whole day, found that my eyes bleed.
00:37:46
Speaker
Right. Do you know what I mean? I get my my eyes get really tired. And, you know, if I've got like, OK, I've got a deadline and I to work solid day in front of the computer.
00:37:58
Speaker
I've come out the other end at the end of the day. I was like, holy crap. You're really feeling it. h Yeah.
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah. so you know, yeah. So that's my red retirement will just be like. so I don't know, I think it's like a Gen X thing maybe. Yeah, but totally. but but But that kind of like i i idea of of not like working and then stopping and then just playing golf, that isn't that isn't how i I think about the world. I just kind of like just do work because I like working and I you know and i i like bringing in some money and I like doing things.
Unmasking ADHD Traits with Age
00:38:44
Speaker
projects and I'll just carry on doing that until I can can't ah afford a computer or software or or my or my or my eyes bleed too much or what or my so my hand becomes too arthritic to move a mouse around and I'll be like okay fine all right But I really like this this this artist, um her example, Joan Semel in New York.
00:39:12
Speaker
She's 93. And she's she's saying, she's as far as she's concerned, she's doing the best work of her life. Yeah. And I love that. I love that idea. yeah There is hope.
00:39:25
Speaker
Especially from an ADHD point of view, you probably had a point, I hope, that in you know if you've been diagnos if you've been diagnosed late in life, you know in my case when I was 56, by the time you get to retirement age, you're pretty much 100% unmasked.
00:39:49
Speaker
And that's a whole lot of energy that you're not using up, masking, which is great, right? Well, yeah, because the the the problem is is that is that we don't have as much energy to counter the ADHD stuff. Right. So we have less and less energy. we we we get burnt out more and more easily. And we're forced to sort ah to kind room drop masks because, we as you say, we we we don't have the energy for it. yeah So, it i mean, I kind of see it as more of a sort of less, oh, you know, it's going to be a freeing thing and more like, yeah, we just have to offload all this stuff.
00:40:31
Speaker
energy-sucking shit that we do. We have to. otherwise Otherwise, we'll end up inig in a grave because because if because if we if we're trying to... Getting ill.
00:40:45
Speaker
Getting ill, probably. Yeah. yeah right yeah mean Some people link to it. If you ah if you believe what Gabor Mateo says, you know these those that kind of energy, negative energy, terms a masking,
00:41:01
Speaker
can cause cancer either but even right or you know all kinds of things you know they're in at their roots you know all of these diseases are created by the uh the way we've with our lifestyle right you know and you know the environment that we've been living with and what we grew up you know experiencing even as children Exactly. And all of that trauma you hold in your body, it's stored there. Massively. And if you don't deal with it, yeah you'll have less energy as you get older and you ri retire. yeah and and And it will just kind of like it will just it would just break you down in the end. So so so it's like at some point you have to kind of go, right, I have to offload all this shit. I have to kind of get rid of that energy crap. i have to deal with myself. i have to heal because, because, you know, if you get into old, old, old aging, you've done nothing.
Emotional Challenges of Retirement and Life Goals
00:41:59
Speaker
know, that's, that's why you have this thing of like this famous thing of when people, especially men, when they retire, they will famously die.
00:42:10
Speaker
like right within like five years after being retired they just go yeah a because they've done nothing that they've done nothing except do the job exactly an accountant or whatever which links back to what i was saying before it's just a personal opinion if i think um as i said before The the um midlife crisis that men go through is part of that process, you know, of like, you know, lacking identity other than just what they were good at as a job.
00:42:47
Speaker
It's a profession. I think I think then having little else to fulfill their lives with. I think when I last looked, the the whole midlife crisis had moved younger and there was actually like several. Totally. There's like several midlife crises now. It isn't just like one when you're like 45 or whatever. Yeah. Crises, I think is the plural. yeah Yeah. Crises.
00:43:15
Speaker
there's There's like a series of them now. Right. Because why life's so complicated. Anyway. It's complicated. Have you got any any any other closing thoughts that yes that you want to get out? ah ah I'll leave you with this one, maybe. I was... When I um had a... um I started some sessions with a psychologist.
00:43:43
Speaker
When was it? About or seven or eight years ago. And the first appointment i had with her, she said, Paul, what what are you trying to, what objective do you have you know with them starting to have these sessions together? And I said, um when I retire, I want to retire with some sense of peace and composure.
00:44:07
Speaker
All right. Good goal. It's a good goal, isn't it Yeah, yeah, And how's it going? yeah how It's going all right, actually. It's going all right. All right. Yeah.
00:44:19
Speaker
That's good. Yeah, I've worked hard on it. Because that's what I want. I don't want to get to my worst nightmare is to you get to um into your retirement i age and and have a lot of
00:44:38
Speaker
things that are not fulfilled or too many things that you'd wish you'd done and wish you' things you'd think she'd taken care of care of and, and hadn't, you know, that makes sense.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like no one is, is on their deathbed thinking, man, I wish I'd done some more PowerPoint presentations and, Right. then There's a great book by a woman. It's become a massive bestseller. she was um She worked in retirement home as a nurse in in Australia.
00:45:12
Speaker
I think it was in Sydney. And she wrote a book um as a kind of, um she accumulated a lot of stories of patients that she had that died in the retirement home where she worked. ah based on regrets that people had in their time of dying, right?
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah. Fascinating book, a really insightful thing. And guess what? Yeah, people have a lot of um um things that they regretted.
00:45:46
Speaker
yeah so I hope to reduce, personally, the amount of regrets. That would be my age. That would be aim. I remember there was a documentary about the the ho the poet laureate, who's the, the queen's personal poet. Right.
00:46:06
Speaker
Okay. um And he, i think this was like towards the end of his life or something. And, and there was an interview with him and there, and he was like, so do you have any, any regrets? And he was like, I, I wish I'd had more sex.
00:46:29
Speaker
Brilliant. Brilliant. So there we go. Right. Well, recently I said um um there's a psychologist that really like, British, well, it's half British, half Swiss, called Alain de Botton.
00:46:45
Speaker
He's written a lot of books. Check him out. He's amazing. he's He was talking about... um regrets. And he said anyone that says that they have no regrets or that we shouldn't have regrets it' an absolute is absolute nonsense. He said being human is having regrets. If you don't have regrets, there's a strong probability that you're erring towards being a narcissist.
00:47:15
Speaker
Because it's a completely natural human thing to have regrets. Right. yeah And that we should, because it means that you're reflecting on how you've behaved. Right.
00:47:28
Speaker
Unless it's actually a part of the process and you had a regret and you went through a process and you healed and you and you forgave yourself. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not that you, it's not deciding whether you have or don't have regrets. It's how you deal with them.
00:47:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You know. All right. Nice one. Nice. Okay. Now I'm just look like looking looking looking down down down down the thing. What are we doing? Oh, yeah. So now we are going to be going to rate.
00:48:04
Speaker
great Rate? Rate retirement. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. All right. Is it a W or is it a B? I don't see.
00:48:15
Speaker
rich the retirement take the time but is it is it is it a dopamine hit or is it a burnout thing oh jesus christ wow what a provocation ah you know what i mean like the the the thing is for me it could be a dopamine hit like in theory in theory if you've if you've managed to somehow sort yourself out and you're fairly and you're comfortable you have time that
00:48:47
Speaker
If you've sorted out a lot of your regrets, yeah and you've had enough sex. ah Yeah, and you've got some money and you've got a support system around you. Right. Then, you know, ah pension or whatever, then yeah then fine. You know what?
00:49:05
Speaker
it It could be a really sort of amazing time. Yeah. So i'm I'm going to say in an ideal world, dopamine hit could be like could be like a an eight.
00:49:19
Speaker
I'm going to give it a ah high eight. Yeah. Yeah. Because we have to be realistic, don't we? Because you get up, already get up, if you're like me, you get up in the morning and your knees don't work as as they, you know, they maybe take 10 minutes before your knees start loosening up a bit. Oh, blimey. And you're straightening your back out a bit, you know. ahha Things are a little bit more.
00:49:45
Speaker
So we have to be honest. It's not all, you know, it's not all kind of rosy. I'm going to agree with you, Martin. I'm going for a round 8.25. Oh, wow.
00:49:59
Speaker
Rounding it rounding up a bit. round Rounding up. Nice. And then but burnout. See, this is this is where it could be like a – you see, this is this is like a full 10. I'm going to give it like a 10.2 because it's like it could be – On the worst side of it, like you've spent your life high and you've done nothing ah with yourself and then you retire and then you just fall over.
00:50:27
Speaker
Right. You just, that's it. You're right you potentially you potentially, right. Worst case scenario. Right. right It could, it like, if you don't deal with anything, then it's going to creep up on you.
00:50:42
Speaker
If you've ignored shit, you know, I can think of people that I can't name, but um that I know very well that um they haven't dealt with stuff. You know, they've buried their head in their sand.
00:50:57
Speaker
You know, they haven't had the courage to deal with important things. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And they've become a bit bitter and twisted in their old age. And there are a lot of people like that. Right.
00:51:09
Speaker
Yeah. Especially men. Especially men, I think. Especially men. ah Yeah, I mean. um So potential burnout is high for me. Well, what's it for you, Martin? What's your potential burnout score? Oh, it was like 10.1, because as far as I'm concerned, dead death is the ultimate burnout. Oh. Because it's like...
00:51:31
Speaker
you yeah are not thinking like that, because we all have to die, Martin. We all do. Sorry to break it to you. We all have to die. okay. Mine isn't that... that um Mine is completely the other end of the spectrum, Martin. All right. I'm going to give it ah i'm goingnna round it up to 3.75.
00:51:55
Speaker
three point seven five all right. Very low for you. Very interesting scores there. Very interesting scores. Interesting. Provocative, I'd say. Exactly. All right. Well, with that little thought, we're just going to quickly jump into the...
Misconceptions About ADHD and Life Expectancy
00:52:11
Speaker
We're going to make our way over to um to Alexandra's Haunted Inn,
00:52:22
Speaker
where she's left a rather lovely note, but um but in the... And Rutherford. And bang on. The timing is perfect after the last points we were making. Yeah, yeah. So we're going to kind of keep this short. So we're what did you pull out, Paul? We pulled out, Martin. Alexandra is saying, looking forward to the next the next episode, which is this one.
00:52:45
Speaker
and she kind of preempted what the discussion might be about. She says she thinks she'll die before retirement. No, come on, don't do that. No,
00:52:57
Speaker
That's the ultimate burnout, isn't it? She didn't even reach, didn't even get to it. That's what I'm saying, mate. That's why I gave her a 10. And because she's not the only one.
00:53:09
Speaker
i've I've talked to a few people. And when you get to like the retirement, they go, yeah, I'm not going to get that far. Like, like, you know, like, so if you've got chronic ill illnesses and you know how, like, if if you have like undiagnosed ADHD or autism, it will take years off your life.
00:53:31
Speaker
um And you've got these other health problems. You know, there's quite quite a lot of our crowd kind of go, yeah, mate. Yeah. I'm not sure that I'm actually going to get there. Right. Right.
00:53:43
Speaker
By the way, I was listening to a podcast recently from a specialist, ADHD and autism um psychologist.
00:53:54
Speaker
Right. um Psychiatrist, not psychologist, psychiatrist. So she's got like over 30 years experience specifically on this. And she said that um she addressed very specifically this idea that these numbers that come out occasionally, they're completely...
00:54:13
Speaker
um misrepresented, misrepresented about people with ADHD or autism having a lower life expectancy expectancy. Right. She looked into it and was absolute nonsense.
00:54:27
Speaker
Is it really? It's completely misrepresented figures based on some research that's been done and it was just taken completely out of context. um and Okay. At the best, she said, at best, very inaccurate. All right. Not yet any research that actually, real research that backs it up.
00:54:51
Speaker
Okay, I'm going have to spend next week looking into that yeah and see whether she has a point or not. All right, so ah it is now time for...
00:55:12
Speaker
Oh, wait a minute, Martin. What? We didn't have the banjo for the ratings. Yeah, we did. it's Yeah. Did we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did I miss it?
00:55:22
Speaker
ya Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blimey. Okay. You will just have to wait till next next week um to hear again. All right. So we're i'm looking at the time. got five minutes.
00:55:35
Speaker
All right, so ah this is the quiz portion of the of of ah of of the show where Paul and I um ah have have a quiz off, um and we um and currently Paul is in the lead three to zero I am sucking ass and it's my turn to do the quiz.
00:55:56
Speaker
um yeah itll It'll be two truths and and a lie. Let's see with three questions. Let's see how you do. Now, the theme of this week was like I thought the the the ultimate retirement was kind of was to die so i've i've so i've i've done a quiz about about about how famous people have have have retired from life okay all right how they have died all right okay
00:56:36
Speaker
i i was I was trying to find something fun. Retire from life, okay. Yeah. All right, so here we go. Question one. Harry Houdini, you know, the famous master escape artist, illusionist. Yes, yes.
00:56:53
Speaker
Which one of these? So which one of these is is a liar? So A, he died after a student repeatedly punched him in the stomach to test his strength.
00:57:07
Speaker
Right, okay. Or is it b he drowned during a failed underwater escape stunt in front of a live audience? Right.
00:57:17
Speaker
Or C, he kept performing for days after the incident before finally collapsing. So so so did he die from being punched in the stomach? or Did he dry die from the underwater escape stunt went wrong? Or did he keep performing for days after the incident and then finally died?
00:57:46
Speaker
Oh, the obvious answer is two. Right. a thing Wasn't it a famous thing? But maybe it's not true. i think um I'm erring on the side that is that's how people think that he died. It's some kind of thing ah with the the thing, the falls, a famous thing that he did in Canada. What's it called? The falls in Canada.
00:58:18
Speaker
Oh, you're you're you're you're thinking of of going over the the vi ah the bloody fools in Canada. Yes, fools. Those fools in Canada, isn't it?
00:58:33
Speaker
Well, it's it's on the border. So one side is is really yeah is Canada and the other side is okay it's American. Viagra Falls. Viagra Falls, is that?
00:58:46
Speaker
Viagra Falls, yeah. I think it's the first one, Martin. going to choose the first one. Someone was... Punching him in the stomach. And you'll be completely right. So um he so he he he he he didn't drown in the stunt that he was doing. he was He was punched internally, leading to a ruptured appendix.
00:59:10
Speaker
Silly man. Silly man. That's so male. Test my spin. That's so male, isn't it Yeah. Punching appendix. Oh, that's a bad way to go.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, um all right. So, um okay, so Tycho Brahe, I don't know. um He was a brilliant Renaissance as astronomer with a gold nose.
00:59:38
Speaker
With a golden nose. Yeah. Yeah. So here's his's a story. So which one is a is a lie? So let's... ah So A, he died after refusing to leave a royal banquet to go to the bathroom.
00:59:53
Speaker
Yes. i.e. he was holding on to his pee for way too long. Okay. ah his his His bladder rupture was blamed on strict court etiquette.
01:00:08
Speaker
Manners literally killed him. We'll see he died when one of his wild chemistry experiments exploded. I'm going for the first one again.
01:00:21
Speaker
Bladder explosion. holding up to his pace. Yes, and that would be absolutely correct.
01:00:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A very awkward death. Wow. wow But yeah, he wouldn't excuse, but he was dying, dying for a piss, and he ofs he didn't leave. All right.
01:00:47
Speaker
Okay. This one you may know. Isadora Duncan, the revolutionary modern dancer who basically reinvented how people move on on on stage.
01:01:00
Speaker
Yes, yes. Which one is the lie. Did she? A, um she died when her long scarf caught in a car wheel. Oh, I think that's true.
01:01:14
Speaker
She was riding in an open-top sports car when um and ah died in ah in a crash, or she died mid-performance when her costume failed on on on stage.
01:01:29
Speaker
I think it's the first one again, Martin. I believe it is true. You are three for three. So there we go. So that's four to you.
01:01:40
Speaker
Wow. and And I continue to remain scoreless.
01:01:49
Speaker
Wowzers. Okay. I know. know. All right. so we're All right. So that's the quiz. So now. a quiz. It's a quiz.
01:02:01
Speaker
what's zi what's um next What's the next episode, Martin?
Teaser for Next Episode & Podcast Wrap-Up
01:02:05
Speaker
You'll like this, Paul. You'll like this. I picked it out specially. Yeah, yeah. Right, i was I was back and forth, back and forth. But what we are going to do is ADHD and tattoos.
01:02:19
Speaker
a Oh, um Exactly. Because quite a lot of neurodivergent people do have tattoos that's like one thing one of the things that is quite um yeah yeah yeah that ADHD and autistic people like to do and you have lots and I have none so I kind of thought like that was that was like a sort of and and ah two ends of the of the of the yeah it's like a two point point points of view interesting okay cool like it
01:02:59
Speaker
Yeah, OK, I'm glad. Interesting. Nice. Okey doke. like the sound of that. So that just leaves me to say ADHDville is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all purveyors of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us. Not, not, ah not old and retired. Not retired.
01:03:21
Speaker
Not dead, dead yet. Yeah, and and feel free to correspond at will in the comments. But wait, there's more if you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces than say, Sally Forth, the YouTubes and the TikToks. And you can also pick up a quill and email us at adhdvill at gmail.com. But in the meantime, be fucking kind to yourself.
01:03:43
Speaker
And I beseech you fellow ADHDers, fare thee well with gladness of heart.
01:03:54
Speaker
That's that. There we go. One minute four. Okay, that's pretty good. Yeah, we kind raced at the ending. Rattled through, some would say.
01:04:10
Speaker
Pretty much caught up. Yeah, after this, I've got to go back and carry on doing that bloody job. Oh, blimey.
01:04:20
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I haven't quit yet.
01:04:25
Speaker
Bye.