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Real Believers
41 Plays7 months ago
Subscribing to a religion requires you to believe wild and crazy stuff.
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Transcript
Questioning the Bible's Authenticity
00:00:10
Speaker
Hit the go and I'm a manamowah Watch the baby manna ae wola Lipidonama Lipidonama Wow wow Lipidonama
00:00:46
Speaker
Matt, is the Bible authenticated and the most accurate archaeological document known to man? Should we believe it?
00:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, dude. 100%. End of show.
Religious Texts and Beliefs
00:01:01
Speaker
Non-believer. i just started but I just started reading the Ethiopian Bible and I i can't i can't get over it, dude. Like us us Western Christian people or even just generally people that are in some of the bigger religions, say Christian, Catholic, maybe Muslim.
00:01:22
Speaker
You look at some of these outliers, like maybe the Latter-day Saints are you or Buddhism or I don't know, like... I can't, Rastafarianism. I'm trying to think of like religions that you hear about where we all just write them off as fucking wacko crazy shit, right? It's like, oh, I mean, I've even heard people talk about Rastafarians, like they worship this Hale Selassie who lived it was an Ethiopian prince in the 20th century and like that's crazy shit.
00:01:48
Speaker
Well, I just started reading the Old Testament and I was like, this is ours, man. This is really bizarre. What, Revelations? and the I'm still in unlike Genesis because I'm still like Moses moses leading the Israelites out Egypt.
00:02:05
Speaker
just like... out of the out of egypt i'm just like we it's a like a leap I guess we'll call it a leap of faith because it's it's pretty crazy. But a lot of prominent religions were founded on that those texts, ju Judaism, Christianity, I'm sure that
God's Severity in the Old Testament
00:02:20
Speaker
maybe other ones. so And I'm like, it's hard to point fingers at any religion now that I'm starting to read this because you asked, is that the truth and the belief?
00:02:30
Speaker
I can't say it's not, but it's yeah it's crazy. It also could be the way it was interpreted, the way it was written. Sure. But It's like when you really read, like I don't know, I get maybe it was brought up, but I had this idea of like God and Jesus and religion as being this like kind thing. And when you read the Old Testament, God is Not kind.
00:02:51
Speaker
It's a real son of a bitch. Yeah. He's just like, this is the way it is. Do it. Cause I said so, but no, like redemption of like, be a good person. It'll be like, I'll reward you with kingdoms.
Cultural Perceptions of Religion
00:03:00
Speaker
I'll reward you with bounty.
00:03:01
Speaker
We almost like, that's actually kind of, don't know. It feels almost like materialistic in a old school way. Right. So that's kind of weird. I mean, I got it. It's, it's a pretty big book. So it's going to take me a while to read it, but it's, I don't know. I just was struck by the fact that like,
00:03:19
Speaker
all right, a lot of our beliefs are are grounded and some interesting stuff that if you were an outsider, you would look at it and be like, oh, well, you're you guys are the crazy people, not us. A Native American might be like, what do you mean?
00:03:31
Speaker
Worshipping the sun or whatever they do is a lot more logical than what you're doing. Right. Right. The hubris, though, the hubris of the American culture or the Western civilization culture, Christian culture, to call out other religions as savages, to call out other people as ignorant.
00:03:51
Speaker
to to operate with such exclusion. It's pretty interesting that you would choose to do that, especially and something built on faith. I don't quite get it. You know, and don't quite get how... think that's such a great word though, because you can hide anything under that.
00:04:08
Speaker
Right. You can hide almost anything. But the Bible itself, like it is filled with some interesting anecdotes, stories. A lot of people call them. the It's the word of God. It's factual. It's it's what you should understand and know.
00:04:22
Speaker
I will say right off the bat,
Literalism vs Evolution
00:04:24
Speaker
I have read bits and pieces. I don't really know shit about it. I just find it hard to believe that this book is the authenticated word of God. And so many people pretend to live their life in lockstep with the words of this book. You don't have to name names.
00:04:45
Speaker
You know anybody? You know anyone like that in your either friend group or anything that's like... I will say, though... That might be some of the ah genesis, some of the reason why you've got a lot of sort of like New Testament people that are more into like Jesus and the New Testament, because maybe maybe that's a more digestible version of God. This this wise, kind person that that taught you like virtue and and stuff like that. Then the Old Testament God that's kind of like, I feel like the Old Testament God's like an operations manager. It's just like, I got get this fucking thing going.
00:05:19
Speaker
So just fucking do it. So you got it. You need to reproduce. I need you to reproduce. And I need some rule out there and I can't have you all rallying against me. So help me, though, here. It's a good point. But help me here with some of the key concepts since you are a believer.
00:05:34
Speaker
First and foremost, Adam and Eve. God said, don't eat the apple. And that's when sin was born. Humans thereafter sinned. And it was Jesus Christ that was born and died on the cross and was resurrected, essentially ah erase all our sin. So I have that right.
00:05:53
Speaker
Adam and Eve were the first sinners. And then Jesus came. and gave us a ah way out. It's so funny because I just read it, but I'm like, it's so
Free Will and Human Behavior
00:06:01
Speaker
bizarre and like hard to, it's hard to like navigate through. I think that there was a snake, a serpent that said, dad, don't worry about it. eat it. The tree of knowledge.
00:06:08
Speaker
And she was like, she was like, this is going to make great standup comedy routines and B rooms around the world. You know, a woman, you know, man was a guy, you know, if it was a woman that people could, could do those, those counter teams.
00:06:21
Speaker
right. But here's what I'll say. Do you think there wasn't Adam and Eve? I have no idea. i mean, I don't listen to that story and feel like that's Why I'm asking is like actual the logical idea, like there was there was a starting point which required two people to reproduce doesn't seem that ridiculous.
00:06:41
Speaker
I guess you would say we we evolved from what amoebas or bacteria and slowly evolved into man. And so Adam and Eve, but there probably still was like a first version of man. Could have been that.
00:06:52
Speaker
Sure. There could have been. I mean, I certainly don't look at that story as more probable and logical than evolution. And evolving from apes.
00:07:03
Speaker
and light bub You what I'm saying? Yeah, you're right. You're saying God intervened at the evolutionary process where he's like, oh, humanoid. Here's the brain that I've been waiting for. And now I will influence them with a lot of vague scripture and weird spiritual rules.
00:07:21
Speaker
Well, I guess what i'm saying is there's a place for probably like to believe in evolution and and not think that that's insane and crazy. And there must have been some sort of crazy force for this all to happen. Like I can get down with both sides of that.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's like, okay, was there Adam and Eve? There probably was. Like a man there was a man, there's um some sort of male, there's a first like male and female relationship at some point. What form that was, I can't really say.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah. But some point, there'd be that the the fact that two people had to be together reproduce must must be true.
Selfishness in Seeking Salvation
00:07:53
Speaker
Okay, I can get behind sort of a universal, by universal I mean the universe, some laws of nature.
00:08:02
Speaker
and there being a component of good and evil within that construct. I can get behind that, but the specific story, if they're sort of an anecdotal story about this more of universal law of nature, then then I'm okay.
00:08:17
Speaker
But if I really believe that at some point, these two people were put in an apple orchard with the serpent and that serves the foundation of all of man's sin,
00:08:28
Speaker
I'm not sure, dude. I'm not sure. So what about free will? what's What's that? Free will, this idea that God made you in his likeness, but you're here on earth exercising your own free will. And what's what's interesting about it is like in the absence of free will, things happen to us.
00:08:48
Speaker
We have unconscious thoughts. We have circumstances that lead us to become the people we are. And that and that it may be a murderer, may be other evil things based on the circumstance we live. But the other side of it is no, you were given free will to make the decisions and choices to like move towards eternal salvation.
00:09:06
Speaker
And lean more on the sort of scientific side of like, You have a lot of unconscious thought, a lot of shit in the world, dude, and a lot of fucking circumstances that leads you to become who you are, including genetics, biological stuff.
00:09:20
Speaker
And less on like, no, God and the devil are fighting over me every day to figure out what choices I make. Look around, dude. What the fuck are we doing every day that makes you feel like this is some spiritual exercise for our or some spiritual test drive for our eternal salvation?
00:09:37
Speaker
We fucking eat. We sleep. We go work some dumb fucking job. We shit. and sometimes Sometimes there's a little love. There's a little bit of like meaning meaning for a lot of people. But I mean, how are any of these motherfuckers in America who are just walking around eating, shitting, getting to heaven?
00:10:01
Speaker
I don't have an answer for you, but i even the idea of like doing stuff for the sake of eternal salvation seems like a selfish act.
Fairness in Religious Salvation
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah. like But be like i'm doing I'm not doing this to be nice. I'm doing this because...
00:10:16
Speaker
got the guts to do it. Like, I don't know. We've been trying since probably the beginning of ah where we are we are conscious to figure out why we're here. And that's that's that's why we have that business, religion.
00:10:31
Speaker
Agreed. And then it gets manipulated and used to to manipulate people, gets used to manipulate people, essentially. Yeah. And so you we can go and such down such deep rabbit holes with morality and whether that's just innate to us as a species. Where does it come from? Is it some natural law? And that's why most of us aren't psychotic because I don't know that we needed the Bible to tell us not to murder our kids or whatever.
00:10:58
Speaker
Well, I don't know. Yeah, like, oh, because it's a commandment, I shouldn't kill someone? Maybe they didn't need that? what you're saying? Well, right. You're like raising a knife and someone's like, stop. Stop your rage because of the book, the commandment.
00:11:10
Speaker
And you're like, ah, I always forget that one.
00:11:16
Speaker
Then you put the knife down. Yeah, but it's an attempt to explain the unexplainable. And so so it's just so bizarre because of that. cause there's like no good, I mean, no atheist can really, ever talked to someone who's like, we'll fucking die and we're in the dirt and that that's it.
00:11:32
Speaker
And it doesn't matter why we're here. And you're like, really? You don't you don't you don't ponder that at all? you know Yeah. Yeah. I don't relate to that either. The exercise of trying to see what's possible is it's compelling to me at least. But and There's some hypocrisy for sure in people's application of Bible truths, so-called truths.
00:11:55
Speaker
And that's a struggle for me, but also some of the concepts. So a couple more I'll ask you as a believer. I have a theory on where you're at, and I think we're all there, but I'll keep going. But just a couple more, and then I'm just curious. So so the but concept of sinning and and this idea that you really need to walk the path of Jesus.
00:12:17
Speaker
You just need to have a relationship with God and you know know that Jesus died for your sins. And you can make a shitload of mistakes. And in some cases, you can do some pretty evil shit.
00:12:28
Speaker
And as long, at least while you're here on earth, before you you know have to get to judge to God's judgment, you can certainly believe that you're on the path to heaven because you can absolve yourself of these sins because we know that all men are sinners.
00:12:42
Speaker
And so there's no real... standard There's no high standard for what it means to be a ah good person and get to heaven. it It's just like ah like I said, it's just a bunch of gluttonous shit show people who can all get there as long as they go, hey, Jesus died for my sins and I pray to God or whatever. This you know this is what I see today. pray to God or whatever.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, no, there's nothing there. there's nothing There's not a whole lot that one has to do. I think the, is it the Ten Commandments? that like Most of those are probably good. Even when i confront ah religious person with the idea that like okay well look at all the people using Christianity to profit on the backs of the poor or look at these insane hypocrisies then the answer is always per Adam and Eve men and men and women are sinners and Jesus Christ came God gave us Jesus Christ and he died for our sins when we accept Jesus Christ in our lives dude we're good
00:13:42
Speaker
ah yeah What do you want, a zero tolerance policy?
Deserving Salvation and Moral Standards
00:13:45
Speaker
like Well, it does seem like if you're if what's on the line is a subset of people going to the lake of fire and a subset of people going to eternal salvation, the greatest place ever that ever existed, you might have a cutoff there.
00:14:01
Speaker
When you start that, when when you check in, like because you can't you can't be judged on what you did when you're five years old or maybe even. That's a whole thing. Like God knows that you, you know, of the people who are ignorant or, you know, even God always knows, like you were in a, i don't know, a country like Guatemala, somewhere where you're a Muslim, you're Muslim, what pick a country, Iraq.
00:14:23
Speaker
And you you were never exposed to the Christian religion because the Christian religion is the true religion. And so I know people have said those people are fucked. they They can't get out of it. Right. These are some of the things I struggle with. But like these are ah ah effectively innocent people. They are essentially children in the sense that they really had no.
00:14:41
Speaker
Ain't no free will on where you were born. Yeah, no, right. No opportunity to really gravitate towards Christianity. Because to do so might, in some cases, be to to be killed by your own people. right Right. And vice versa, right? Like they, they would my bay whoever whatever group might be like, those Christians, they're going to whatever they believe in because they did they're not accepting their their God as as the truth, right? Okay. Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
Yeah, so you have no answers for me on the sinning. Okay, last one, and then I'll show you. Well, I think I don't see ah i don't see a way to – I don't know why we sin. i sin all the time. i mean, that sounds so stupid, but you know what i mean? Like I'm not a perfect person. i don't know what – I sin all the time. Like you can break it down to like I just put – What we consider sins now is so stupid. Like, I ate Skittles.
00:15:29
Speaker
I sinned. Or, you know, I don't know. um like Well, what would be... But why but you can't you can't have a zero sin policy. Otherwise, we should kill ourselves. Like, the second you you fuck up, it's like, it's over. I lost the match.
00:15:42
Speaker
So you need a way to... you need ah There has to be some redemption and a way to, like, get out of here. Like, fix your sins and fix your... Yes, because we we are a product of unconscious thought and genetic material that makes us...
00:15:54
Speaker
act and react unconsciously a lot. It's not just free will. And so you're not making every choice rationally. So how could you be held that be held against you? I think that, but I also would say, then why worry about it at all?
00:16:09
Speaker
The one requirement is to accept that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that you know God was the creator of everything. And if you happen to need to murder or do something bad, just keep that in mind.
00:16:22
Speaker
mean, I think you're selling it. That is kind of the thing is like, that's that takes the burden off of me so now I can live freely. But I don't think people use that to be like, now going to fucking kill. I think they do. People realize i have a chance.
00:16:35
Speaker
I can wake up be a better person tomorrow through that. That should be the way you think of it. Not like, Now I can go fuck people over and make pyramids schemes and fuck other people's wives. and i could do, and or vice versa, fuck other people's husbands.
00:16:49
Speaker
And, uh, and, and I don't think people, there are people doing that, but how many people like, all right, Now because of accepted Jesus, I can go be a real piece of shit. There's enough of them, right? There's a lot of them. But also, but more of like it's the standards seem pretty fucking low to have eternal salvation.
00:17:07
Speaker
And and i I wonder how that came to be. Because I think there were probably too many inconsistencies and too many hypocrisies and too many egregious. we Rewind that.
00:17:20
Speaker
Right. the The standard became of all that there is except Jesus. You're saying the the idea of all that there is except Jesus, my so my sins are absolved and ask for forgiveness. That standard is kind of ridiculous. ah Yeah, because I think it feels to me like, well, I would want to know if I'm going to bring you into heaven.
00:17:38
Speaker
You didn't murder. You didn't rape and take advantage of the poor. you You gave back. You basically walked the path of Jesus, if we're really talking about heaven. And maybe there's like another little stop off area where- I like that. No murder, no rape.
00:17:54
Speaker
yeah Come on in, bro. Right. did You did all the things that you would seem like that would meet the standard for someone who was, again, we're talking about eternal salvation, bro.
00:18:05
Speaker
We're not just talking about a weekend trip to Cancun. Eternal. So like if you did all, you fucked up and you were a fat, gluttonous, piece of shit pig and you're- All you did was just go to the rock and roll church ceremony and you said you accepted Jesus.
00:18:21
Speaker
Come on, man. That's all I'm saying. It's like the standards seem pretty low. Well, you would like to see that person rot in hell? Well, the only people rotting in hell are people with any sort of skepticism about what's in the Bible.
00:18:35
Speaker
Any, you know, the one, the so-called non-believers, those people are going to rot in hell. All of those people are rotting in hell, no matter what path they rock. Like Gandhi is currently rotting in hell. Gandhi is rotting in fucking hell right now. and According to a a group of people. And some fat fucking plantation owner in the South who went through all this you know traditional Christian biblical stuff. He's fucking living it up.
00:19:00
Speaker
Talk about JC. And parasa and paradise. God's paradise. So that's what getting at. Praise God. God.
Struggles with Religious Interpretations
00:19:10
Speaker
So those are things I'm confused about. And I want spirituality in my life. And I want like intense belief and like conviction. I want all that. But I get the idea what you're, the two things that really bother you are one, the absolute sort of absolute like interpretation of the Bible of like, this is the way it is. And there's no, like, there's no possible way it's different. That bothers you a little bit like this absolute interpretation and then the hypocrisy of it in a way.
00:19:39
Speaker
that's what really bothers you. Like someone's like, this is the way it is. And, um, it seems to lack humanity. Well, it seems like you have access to that. I don't have any access to that. Or at least I don't know. No one's, no one's really pushing it on me and no one's even discussing it with me to that. Like, I have met someone that in my wife's family that that was an absolute interpretation where it's like, you're a descendant of Abel. And so you're fucked or like even down to that level, old Testament interpretation.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I immediately go like, that's a crazy person. Then maybe not, but they're so, they're so fierce in their conviction. Like they're like, where are the crazy people to them?
00:20:20
Speaker
Like literally they're just like, they're begging you to to listen them because they're like, you're so fucked if you don't do this. They want you to be saved. Yes, I know. You're so fucked. And that is like, that's scary.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's scary. But in a way you're like, it's like, well, thank you. Yeah. because I know you believe that you're helping me, but it's like, But i but i I'm starting to, as I get older, as I approach 50, teaser, next week's episode, ah as I approach 50, I'm like, I can't really point finger those people anymore and just as crazy.
00:20:51
Speaker
Because the whole foundation of it is like, it's it's impossible that like, as I read the the Bible, i get you get like, I don't know, it's just it's it's hard for me to be like, that's fucking, what they're saying is crazier than any other thing now. That's how I feel, I'm almost like, it's just that they're absolute in it and they have no room for like, well, we might be wrong,
00:21:11
Speaker
that That's, i think, what gets you, and that's what gets me, where there's none of that, like, I'm only human, so that i might I might not be right. These people are like, I know this because I i am basically in the image of God, or God is speaking to me.
00:21:24
Speaker
ah that's like And this is the truth, something like that. Yeah. That chaps your ass. But tell me more about your belief in heaven and hell. Like, how did you come to, like, truly feel like those were real...
00:21:39
Speaker
You know, heaven and hell is like something was given to us. I think and what's funny about heaven and hell is like even nonbelievers were kind of in that. Like, that's just our thing. Good and bad. Good versus evil.
00:21:50
Speaker
And everybody had everyone has their idea of it, even if they say they don't and they don't look at as religious. But there is there is. i mean, first of all, you got it. You have that. Someone has to try to explain the afterlife.
00:22:01
Speaker
And that's what they came up with almost across the board. you know, like there's cultures that maybe maybe Vikings have a Valhalla or weird, you know, something that doesn't doesn't agree with like Christian faith or even like Muslim or Islamic faith, but like everybody's trying to explain the afterlife.
00:22:21
Speaker
So that's why you have those things, first of all. Yeah, it just seems like a ah poorly designed video game with one level because a lot of our life, you know, even historically, I think, you know, it seems rather insignificant.
00:22:35
Speaker
in terms of what we're able to do and what we do here on earth. and And a lot of people would disagree with that, but it seems rather insignificant to then somehow propel you into an eternal afterlife or eternal salvation or or to burn in the lake of fire for eternity.
00:22:54
Speaker
And so some people, the whole existence of their life is they were a librarian and they never married and they never had kids and they were in a kind and ate sushi on Sunday nights for whatever reason. They just had some no quirky little habits and and they really didn't do much of consequence, but.
00:23:13
Speaker
That's kind of a hot little librarian. Yeah. Like sushi kind gets out there a little bit. Right. And depending upon what she believed in her heart of hearts, she might burn for eternity. Let's get this out there. For fucking eternity in the lake of fire.
00:23:32
Speaker
And that seems... Real weird. and's so funny That's a funny imagery to think of. but You would never think of a librarian, like a person that's going to hell, but you imagine the librarian that's like, ah, fuck.
00:23:45
Speaker
But they they're most likely like really a bookworm. So they've probably read so much that they're probably not that faithful at some point because they're reading all this weird shit and they're like, yeah oh, you can't run, bitch.
00:23:57
Speaker
You're not in on aisle six of the library now. You non-believer. That's good. But an omnipresent, all-powerful God, wouldn't he make multiple levels? Like, so you could gain awareness and then, like, we're in another level. He made two levels, I think.
00:24:12
Speaker
Okay, but what's another level then? Educate me, but I would think you'd have, like, five levels. Heaven and then hell are the two levels. Oh, yeah. is Okay, but multiple levels of life experience. to So like by level five, you should be walking the path of Jesus, giving all of your resources to the poor and people who are suffering more than you.
00:24:31
Speaker
And if you don't do that, then we know now you belong in hell. I like the, yeah. I like the idea. Like it'd be nice if you kind of like, like review the game tape like Monday morning or Monday afternoon, yeah high school football, you can go.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah, that was, that was like, should have done little something there, but whatever. Right. You would go to heaven. They'd talk to you, Matt, and you'd say, look look, hey, this is part of my rules.
00:24:59
Speaker
You got divorced or whatever. You need to work on that next time. I'm not going to put you in hell this time. You just need to work on these things. Yeah. Your board foot cost on slabs late summer, 2026, you were screwing people.
00:25:13
Speaker
You were absolutely screwing people because you had the wood.
Supernatural in Religion
00:25:17
Speaker
i Yeah, but have you ever met, ah like, probably not, but but I don't know what your access to devoutly religious poor people are. But obviously, where I live, there's plenty of them.
00:25:30
Speaker
And I will say, i can't imagine those people would go to hell. And so it's like, well, it shouldn't just be that religious people go to heaven. Like, you're kind of saying that's bullshit.
00:25:42
Speaker
There should be more to it than just accepting Jesus. But the life these people are... are living seems like they should probably go to heaven. Yeah. Like, but they're not like Jerry far Falwell or or like these, these people that are kind of like using religion to actually do weird shit and impress people. So these are just like poor people that have like working class jobs, walk to work, wake up at five in the morning, gracias a Dios, thank God. And they're living a very low impact, but like life there and they're not striving for material or maybe they are, but because of their lot, they're not striving for like mc mc material success or fame or anything like that.
00:26:22
Speaker
And I would be like, that's probably a good way to live. And it's, but it's a religion, devoutly religious way to live. I can't argue with that though. Yeah. You know? Right. Right. But I think in our culture, we'd be like, well, that's the you're like not.
00:26:34
Speaker
Oh, God, God gave you talents and you should strive for great success. And that's that's kind of like built in our form, like Christianity and using God's strength to become a great defensive back or slab salesman. You know, like we still use it, even the most devout Christians use it as a source of like.
00:26:52
Speaker
It gives me strength to get on with my life, which actually means driving towards success. Right? Right. Like, I know I'm going on a tangent here, but my point is like, I've seen people because i of access to see people are living in way below a level of life that we are here and they're, and they're pretty happy. And I just cannot imagine them not going to this place called heaven.
00:27:15
Speaker
Right. Right. it's ah and so It's a weird thing to think about. That wasn't what you asked me. You asked me of what I think about heaven and hell, right? No, that's okay, though. I expect you to skirt the answer here and there.
00:27:29
Speaker
Well, I want to say, you have another question for me? cause i just want Well, I have one more, and then we can get into some weird shit. want to do a 19-minute monologue, but let me, don't you go ahead and ask your question? Oh, my last question is, there is a there seems to be amongst the most fanatical believers a desire to prove the accuracy of the Bible, or you'll hear people will be like, you know, I was skeptical too, but I did the research and I found that God is real.
00:27:57
Speaker
And I tell you, I looked at multiple things. I read Einstein. I did all these things and I found out that God is real and God is great and God's for me. The absolute truth youre But i feel I still feel like you're that you're what really pisses you off is that absolute this is the way it is in it.
00:28:14
Speaker
like Because you obviously someone's obviously telling you, like, this is the way this is what has to be, and that's what pisses you off, right? Like people that are like, this is the way it is. There are those people, and they've come you know they're they just they truly believe they have a handle on absolute truth, and they claim it's faith, and that's great, and they feel comfortable and confident.
00:28:34
Speaker
I love that for people, by the way. i am I'm not there. I'm not there. I'm not i'm looking at whole host. You like people telling, like, I don't know how it gets presented to you.
00:28:45
Speaker
Because I know a lot of people that do, I don't know a lot of people, but I've experienced people that feel that way, but they're not out. They're not, the only way they would talk about is if you really engaged them on it. But then there's another level of people that are like, hey, by the way, you're not going to get saved if you don't do this and this. And this is true because of this.
00:29:02
Speaker
And i that usually happens with, I feel like, born-again people. Yeah. Yeah, I have that in my life. I have also the, I'll let you do what you want to do, but I'm gonna i'm going to display, you know, really overt religiosity to you.
00:29:16
Speaker
And then I have... I'm going to let you do what you're going to do, but um but by the way, it's wrong. and so Yeah. And then I have people that are highly educated and they look at the – they're highly educated and they're Christians and they're pastors, and they look at the Bible as a set of lessons to guide us to be better ah human beings.
00:29:38
Speaker
And use it to control trim. And so – Always. Always. But what I so kind of what we we get, we got into this. and I think this is the funny part of it is like, well, not that funny.
00:29:52
Speaker
Like when you you do you believe in Jesus, do you believe in God, you believe in heaven and hell. Those are the basic things. But when you if you really get down to it, even like Catholicism, we have.
Impact of Supernatural in Media
00:30:04
Speaker
Priests that perform exorcisms. That's crazy shit. That's like what what you might think is just a movie from the 70s. But you're like, nope, what we believe in. There's a guy like, you know, spitting out Latin and trying to get the devil out of somebody's possessed body.
00:30:19
Speaker
That sounds fucking nuts. Like someone sitting in the suburbs of St. Louis right now or in Denver and Englewood, let's say at a Catholic church. And it's just nice family of four. And they say they are father and they leave and go watch the Broncos.
00:30:30
Speaker
They don't realize that they're like, that's their religion. as well is like shit like that. And then you go, oh so we actually believe in like the supernatural and ghost and possession.
00:30:42
Speaker
And you're like, oh, by the way, the conversation isn't just heaven and hell and God and Jesus. Like, do you believe in all this other shit? Because you're actually, your faith actually does, you know? And like, there's people in the Vatican, that's all they do is exorcisms.
00:30:55
Speaker
Let me set your hit head spinning, dude, because those those types of things are actually, Some of the more compelling things for me because they're scary as shit.
00:31:06
Speaker
And like when you look at just the grandiosity of the universe, like I don't know if there are beings, call them demons, or there are crazy forces in this vast universe that can embody person and make them go fucking batshit.
00:31:23
Speaker
And that possibility is pretty scary to me. It's super scary. Give me a summary where you're at. um Not in a religious way, but where you at, like ghosts, supernatural, you UFOs, if you want to get there. But where are you at?
00:31:35
Speaker
All I know is anytime in a movie, Anytime a movie has a scene where there's an exorcism, I fucking get real tense and scared. I'm such a post, dude, when it comes to scary movies.
00:31:48
Speaker
Well, that kind of scary. And then The Conjuring, just anything where somebody's overtaken by some unexplainable force is really scary to me. When you see, and we have a lot of homeless people that kind of walk through this area because there's a public transportation depot, but they're really, yeah, they're really fucked up.
00:32:07
Speaker
And it's scary. They look like the background dancers in the thriller video or something like... Yeah, they're really messed up. And you wonder, what's that? I mean, you could even tie in aliens and things like that. Weird stuff that we just don't understand or know whether they exist.
00:32:22
Speaker
And I could be scared. Do you think those things actually... If they actually happen all the time, like maybe what are, like maybe, i don't know how many generations ago, but maybe like, it's like stuff seemed like a real, like maybe in the 1700s and before people were like, this is what, this is what, I don't know, like a wind storm is or something is whatever the way they use describe stuff.
00:32:44
Speaker
You think it'd be, we'd be better people but if this shit was real. Like, let's just say there were demons. close by and and you you fuck up and that is and a real threat, we'd be a little we'd be a little better humans. We'd be like, yeah i don't want to fuck with that. ah Yeah, I do, man.
00:33:02
Speaker
I think that's an interesting question. I think obviously we can go back. The further you go back in history, the less we were able to sort of explain. We now have more explanations. So it does feel like the and the level or the number of miracles happening or the number of weird things happening in today's world are less. I can't validate that, but I would suspect.
00:33:22
Speaker
But if there were shapeshifters and vampires and demons embodying people, I would live a straight life if that meant keeping them away. You bet.
00:33:34
Speaker
Instead your life debauchery. I'd fucking devote my life to the poor, to like helping people. Yeah, i would be I would be so fucking, I mean, i already am scared, terrified of ah stuff like that that I would just be like, I think it would ruin me if I had an experience with it. I would be so terrified.
00:33:54
Speaker
i would I would just be, like, ah if I saw a ghost, I'm actually staying in a pretty big house right now by myself. And i i have my I'm still like a little, let's turn the lights on at night type guy. I'm still like, eh, this is kind of weird.
00:34:10
Speaker
Luckily, because of this stupid job, I'm so tired at night, I'm not really thinking about it. but like And now when after my separation, I'm sleeping in my like hat my apartment by myself at night. And I'm like, I don't know. i still I still get a little jittery about that kind of shit. And I've never had any experience with it.
00:34:26
Speaker
um've never I know people are like, I saw a ghost, I experienced a ghost, I experienced this or that. I've never had any experience with it. Yeah, I haven't either. like to talk about because I know it's like I'm bringing it upon myself.
00:34:37
Speaker
I know. I haven't either, dude. But I will still get scared at the 1970s movie with Linda Blair, The Exorcist, even though the technology and the sci-fi stuff. that the the effects are total shit, I'm still like, oh my God. wow Oh my God. they they like They did such a great job of like creating the suspense without random shit where you're like, but what did they want to make that? I don't know. and I mean, I don't even know. you couldn't i couldn't tell you one movie was in the theater in the last three months, but do they make horror movies like
Skepticism of the Supernatural
00:35:05
Speaker
that anymore? Or just in general?
00:35:06
Speaker
The Conjuring kind of goes along the lines of sort of typical demons in it. but that's a movie or series it's a series but the one of them fucked me up for a good month where the reason it fucked me up is is that they they sort of tell this storyline where the demons if you are you know on the verge of sort of mental illness or you're struggling mentally and you're feeling out of sorts that's the the door for the demon to come and take over and we can all feel that way and so after that movie like
00:35:38
Speaker
I was really pondering like how my mental health, how my stability was and whether this, and they fucking visual of this crazy bitch, dude, it just got to me. And it was a different time in my life too.
00:35:49
Speaker
But that fucked me up. This conversation I was in the other night, i was telling you before the show was like, I didn't catch me in the conversation, but a friend of mine was talking about, um there was like a priest in the Vatican that that took care of all the real hard ass like exorcisms. And so all like people would be,
00:36:07
Speaker
whatever you believe in, but they were like levitating and doing all this crazy shit. And this guy's MO was like, fuck you, devil. You're not gonna scare me. like He can't he was just like it was like Mr. T. He was just like, nope, I don't give a fuck. I'm standing here.
00:36:22
Speaker
And that was his thing. But like another friend of mine was just like, dude, what are you talking about? You know none of that happened, right? Just like, yeah there's no possess, there's no devil, there's no exorcism.
00:36:33
Speaker
None of that shit happened. It's like, can you can you prove it right now? And then this this person had, it had led into another conversation a little bit about what we're talking about, but she claimed that she had saw, she was in a room with a,
00:36:45
Speaker
it was like her first day in the dorm in Colorado or something, and she saw a guy like throw his face or something like that. Like she saw his face move across the room in like a series of like steps, almost like ah when you see like the 70s slow motion or something where you see like the but the images like moving across the screen or something like that.
00:37:02
Speaker
And then another person, another her husband actually was like, I saw guys like, skin like come off his face and can see into a skeleton when was sitting there eating with him for like a second. And it was somebody who was like a two-faced person and he couldn't be trusted.
00:37:16
Speaker
And me and myself and the and my friend and myself were like, dude, none of that happened. And we were both like, we would doubt every part of our own selves, our eyes, our vision or something, the lighting before we would ever come to the conclusion that something like that happened.
00:37:31
Speaker
But even the fact that two people in the same room were both like, yeah, it happened to me. i was like, what the fuck? And then I drove home and i to sleep in a dark ass house by myself. And I was like, wish we didn't have that conversation.
00:37:42
Speaker
But I was i was like,
Existential Questions and Faith
00:37:44
Speaker
for it's crazy because for some people it's so, like they're so sure that it happened that you believe them. That they saw a ghost or they saw something like, there's plenty of people like, yeah.
00:37:56
Speaker
It's really hard because... ah you know, that stuff probably didn't happen in the physical world. But then when you just start thinking about science and black holes and time and space and all these phenomenon that we barely understand, and then you start thinking about how scary it would be to lose control of your mind, like deep psychosis.
00:38:16
Speaker
Think about somebody transitioning into a state of schizophrenia, like it just comes on in your early 20s, or transitioning into a state of Alzheimer's, ah some dementia, and like,
00:38:28
Speaker
to lose control. It's real to them, right? It's it's so real. like And who knows is that maybe that is a product of the devil. like you That's what I'm saying. Like paying for the sins of like your ancestors past or something or you did something evil.
00:38:42
Speaker
The psychosis and mental health stuff is what really freaks me out. And I don't know. And that's why I see when somebody's going crazy, yeah, bring in the religious guy that thinks he has to figure out.
00:38:53
Speaker
It's so weird though because you so you have to discount that person. It's like, you know, it's like the, there's plenty of movies. Like the theme is like someone pleading with everyone that this is real. Like I think Terminator might be like that.
00:39:05
Speaker
The original Terminator, this is a real thing. And everyone's just like, you're fucking crazy. Or, you know, there's plenty of people out there that are claiming that they're Jesus. Well, there might be, it might happen eventually that the real Jesus right comes around and everyone's gonna be like, all right, buddy, here's ah here's a fiver, bro.
00:39:22
Speaker
Go get, go get some, ah go down to the gas station and get some coffee. but But those are real. But then to take a step further, like I'm reading that this is what I'm intrigued with. And I could see how people like people you're saying that like our people go up.
00:39:36
Speaker
Remember when AIDS started happening the 80s? Everyone's like, that's God because of their sins of whatever. sodo island They do that all the time. Do it right now. Yeah. If you're reading the Old Testament, it'll be like, God sent seven years of famine to these sinners, or God ruined the town because of sin.
00:39:52
Speaker
I could see how some person that gets all in would would make that jump. Like, if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, and they're just like, yeah, well, it makes sense. That's how God is, right?
00:40:03
Speaker
It's like you give them a virus. so But it's weird because the Bible, I now can understand, just from the little reading I did, I can now understand how people can interpret that way. How like you get your schizophrenia or your year AIDS or your famine in some country where there's a lot of Muslims is just God's wrath.
00:40:23
Speaker
It's a wrath, yeah. There are really like three ways, I think, to address the unexplainable. We're having a three-way. herpes Let me repeat that because people will just be laughing still.
00:40:35
Speaker
But they're there are three ways to like address the unexplainable, I think. like There's the way where you subscribe to a religion that has all the answers for you. And and i hear everything that happens in your life, you can kind of use that to justify it.
00:40:49
Speaker
Then there's the guys that are intellectualize everything and they're going to chi truly have... a process, whether it's science or- ah and in there a rational A rational thinking person would say, yeah.
00:41:01
Speaker
And they're going to dig in and they're going to know all the details of the Bible and all the religions. They're going details of science and what we know and don't know. And they're going to be able to like really explain what's what. And then there's the third, which I fall in is like,
00:41:13
Speaker
I don't know how much we know as a species. um I gather it's very, very little in the grand scheme of the universe. And so I have to open up the door for unexplainable things that I'm open to the idea that demons are flying around.
00:41:28
Speaker
I'm open to lots of different ideas just because who the fuck knows? It's like you're on you not knowing is is the only bastion of hope for you having any faith that something might be there or something in a weird way, huh?
00:41:43
Speaker
I mean, to say you know, though, seems laughable. Seems absurd. You know, I had a... I don't know if I ever told you but... So I got... I was... I went to confirmation.
00:41:54
Speaker
yeah think it was that you become an adult in the Catholic Church. And we went on a retreat with a priest. And I know everyone thinks the story's going to end, but it's not that juicy. I didn't get molested or anything like that.
00:42:05
Speaker
Darn it. But I... At least that not my conscious memory. Maybe I suppressed it, dude. But... um So i we I don't remember what what it was, but we all had these one-on-one conversations with them.
00:42:19
Speaker
And for some reason, i had the idea that like there's like purgatory or something where you're like your soul doesn't go into heaven. I can't remember why. you might know. but like I had the idea that like if a person commits suicide, that that's... Because you you hear a lot of ghost-related stories, I feel like, are people that have seen people that had killed themselves, and they're like stuck.
00:42:43
Speaker
It's like their soul or something is stuck, and they become a ghost in in the in this world, and they can't move on. Yeah. know if you've heard people say that, but it seems like a lot of ghost stories are tied to that. Yeah. Well, that's just because you're busy playing sports and being a meathead.
00:42:59
Speaker
You're right. So I asked the priest, I said, I feel like suicide, we have a time when we're going to die and we don't make that decision.
00:43:13
Speaker
and we try we can pro we can We think we can prolong it by being healthy or whatever, but that's not... It probably is true a little bit, but like whatever. We might die. When you take your own life, you're you're take you're making decision you're not supposed to make, and then you get... It's like your wires get crossed. You get stuck in this in-between world.
00:43:30
Speaker
And I asked the priest that, and I don't remember what he said. But anyways, I just want...
00:43:41
Speaker
No, but when he... he He couldn't answer it. He was like, he just got into like, I mean, the guy was actually ah an enlightened dude. It wasn't just like an old priest that was like, see yeah yeah say three Hail Marys and fucking run along.
00:43:53
Speaker
But he's kind of like, he basically said something like, we we a lot of times it's like people like when people are grieving, things happen to them that makes them want to explain something. And so maybe this idea that they're seeing a loved one that killed themselves or something or someone close, it's like a grieving mechanism or something like that.
00:44:11
Speaker
Well, I was like, that's the logic. Could be, right? Yeah, sure. And he was kind of like, he didn't buy into my, I thought it was fucking brilliant at the time. Like I thought I had like solved a mystery.
00:44:22
Speaker
I thought he was going to be like, maybe you should join the force. You're clearly a virgin. Why don't you how he join the church? Sit right next to me.
00:44:33
Speaker
yeah But that idea isn't any more wacky than anything else in the Bible. Seems actually quite... Thoughtful. I think it's, I still believe it.
Cultural Identity and Divine Selection
00:44:45
Speaker
And maybe not just straight up suicide because a lot of horrible, like things that you wouldn't wish on anyone has to happen for someone to get there. But like, I still feel there's probably, there's so much, whether it's like just in the real world, there's so much like on unresolved business for the people, the survivors, the people that when they die that are just, you know, you left with a bunch of people are like, why did this happen? What could I have done?
00:45:10
Speaker
That person probably in in that second, I can't imagine if you're if you're going to do that to yourself and you might have doubts all the way up until the moment you're dead. So there's like so much unresolved shit. And so, you know I think in ah and that way, it's it's it's true, what of my theory, but the idea like where that your soul goes, if you believe in souls, you know who knows?
00:45:30
Speaker
ah it's It does seem like if there was there were ghosts, that they're in between two realms. and so so It's like something happened that they didn't fully move on to the next realm.
00:45:43
Speaker
and i don't Do you want to experience that or not? You want to go through life and never experiencing anything like that? I go back and forth. Only the good, the good goes.
00:45:56
Speaker
Right. I'm not trying to get tortured. Well, if you have my theory sounds, it doesn't sound, it sounds terrible. Like someone's tra up trapped for eternity. Sounds awful, but like in a weird space that they can't like, but we do have, have you ever been visited by somebody like in a dream or something that passed on that was close to you?
00:46:16
Speaker
I mean, I don't, I don't know what I call it. a visit. I just maybe had dreamed about somebody. yeah I don't know if I have. I've had people that I believe and trust that told me like my, you know, my dad came to me and said things are going to be all right or I'm sorry or whatever.
00:46:31
Speaker
I even had a friend, a friend who in Costa Rica that like can talk to to dead people and he's gone to people's houses and been like, your mom's got something to tell you.
00:46:44
Speaker
And he's like, he doesn't like to talk about it because he's like, because some people are just like, yeah, okay, bro. you're You're crazy. But he's like, listen, I'm not trying to scare you, but I was at your house and your mom feels like this needs to happen or something like that.
00:46:59
Speaker
It's like, it's crazy. Yeah. But it's like the most normal dude ever. So that shit happens. And I'm like, even that freaks me out. I mean, his his thing is like, it's a very he's a very warm, positive person.
00:47:13
Speaker
But I would break down, dude. if if he would if he told if If that happened to me, I don't know what I would do. I'd have like a nervous breakdown. He was like, Matt, you're, I don't know, there's a presence in your apartment and they wanted you to know. I would be like, ah, I gotta go.
00:47:27
Speaker
yeah I'm out. Right. right yeah I think, I think we all, the lack of control is something i I would imagine humans since the beginning of human history have struggled with.
00:47:41
Speaker
We've needed to find an explanation. We need to remove that uncertainty and you need like some sort of anchoring and like, and Religion serves that. I respect that about it. Some strength, something. Yeah, i yep and all these other weird things that can happen, like to to try to explain them, I i get it.
00:47:59
Speaker
I totally get it, dude. But what I want to ask you to end the show is really, of all the people in the world, what race and what country does God really want to succeed
00:48:15
Speaker
I'm sitting in it, bro. Who are the chosen people? I'm sitting in a suburb, white area, in the United States of America. Wow, wow.
00:48:45
Speaker
You don't need no words to make a good song. You don't need no real words.