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Episode 175: The Complete Folk Herbal with Rebecca Beyer
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Welcome back, Witches! This week, we’re joined by a very special guest—Rebecca Beyer! We’re chatting all about her upcoming book The Complete Folk Herbal, diving into the roots of Folk Herbalism, and celebrating the magic of the plants that connect us to the land and our ancestors. So get in, Loser, we’re talking herbs, history, and the healing power of the green world.
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Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio- The Witch
References:
Beyer, Rebecca. The Complete Folk Herbal (2025).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Giveaway
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you feel drawn to learn more about witchcraft and the occult, but feel lost on where to start? Then welcome to Get In Loser, where you're doing witchcraft, a podcast all about what it means to be a witch and where to get started on your journey.
00:00:11
Speaker
Join us as we navigate through various witchy topics and share what we've learned about the craft. So get in witches as we journey through the wild and wondrous world of folk herbalism with Rebecca Beyer and her upcoming book, The Complete Folk Herbal.
00:00:36
Speaker
So we are so excited to share something really special with you guys today.
00:00:50
Speaker
so we are so excited to share something really special with you guys today Rebecca Beyer and her team were kind enough to gift us with a copy of her brand new book, The Complete Folk Herbal, to give away to one lucky listener.
00:01:05
Speaker
If you follow us on social media, you might have already seen the announcement, but if not, make sure to head over to our Instagram to find out exactly how you can enter to win this absolutely incredible book.
00:01:16
Speaker
Seriously, this is one that you're going to want on your shelves. The Complete Folk Herbal is beautifully crafted, so thoughtfully written, and absolutely packed with herbal knowledge and folk wisdom.
00:01:27
Speaker
And if you just can't wait, we don't blame you. You can pre-order your copy right now. The official release date is tomorrow, October seven I honestly can't stress enough how much I've already fallen in love with this book. It's one that's going to become a staple in my own practice.
00:01:44
Speaker
So go check it out. Enter the giveaway and good luck, witches.
Rebecca Beyer's Background
00:01:48
Speaker
so hi, welcome. Yes. Welcome to the podcast. We love that you're... ah Well, I will just say, i was very nervous about this because we're both... We have all of your books. And so we reference them a lot too on the podcast. so being able to have somebody on the podcast that we respect so much and that we just, it feels, I don't know, like, well, amazing. But then also it's kind of like a a moment of like, oh, wow, like here we are. We've never thought that when we started this podcast, like four years ago, that we would have anybody who would want to be on the podcast. And then to have an author that we respect so much on the podcast, it just means so much. So thank you so much for being a part of this.
00:02:34
Speaker
We, I swear to you, I have Wild Witchcraft. I've had it for years and i reference it on the podcast. I recommend it when people are like, what's a good book for this? And I'm like, this one. Yeah.
00:02:45
Speaker
So we absolutely love that book. Thank you so much. It was really fun to write. I'm, I feel like I can relate to what you're sharing. I, when I wrote that book, I was like, no one's ever going to read this.
00:02:57
Speaker
It's fine. Nobody's ever going to listen to my thing or look at it or read it. It's really hard to believe in your creations. Yeah. So when I found this book, I was living in Illinois and there's a little shop in St. Louis called Forest and Meadow. And I was in there like shopping for some herbs and doing stuff. And I see this like book and I'm like, this is beautiful. And I just like, I was like, I have to have it purchased it. And I have used it like probably weekly. I pull this book off the shelf and I'm like, oh, I wanted to look at this one thing or I use it on the podcast left and right. Like it's literally one of my favorite references. So yeah.
00:03:33
Speaker
I'm so glad. Creating references is really important to me. So that's like oftentimes what I'm using to create my book, my different books. Well, and I guess you should probably introduce yourself. We didn't even get all of that. yeah Again, we are all over the place.
00:03:50
Speaker
well You're doing great. I am Rebecca Beyer. She, her. And I'm 38 years old. I live in Western North Carolina, and I'm the author of Wild Witchcraft, Mountain Magic, Fever Tree, Charms Against Fever in Appalachian, Folk Medicine and Magic, and my new book, The Complete Folk Herbal.
00:04:09
Speaker
That is a completely beautiful book, and everyone needs to buy it immediately. Yes. Coming out on the 7th, this is our publishing day, and perfect timing with the month of October. Mm-hmm.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah. So do you want to like talk about a little bit about what you do? And know you have like Blood and Spice Bush, right? Is your kind of like your persona online? And it's, is it a school from what I was looking at?
00:04:36
Speaker
Okay. Perfect. Yeah. I run, i started a blog in 2014 called Blood and Spice Bush on, you know, blogger blogspot.com. And I was really inspired by people like Marcus McCoy, who wrote the Bioregional Animism blog that's no longer out, and Sarah Ann Lawless, who also wrote a blog that's no longer out.
00:04:58
Speaker
And i felt really excited to write about and read about... how I as a European ancestor person living on this continent of North America or Turtle Island could feel at home in a magical practice that was grounded where I lived and also paid reverence to my personal ancestors.
00:05:20
Speaker
And so i I started this blog in an attempt to kind of document that. And for me, I'm a a botanist and I look at magic through the lens of plants. And I started writing about the Appalachian folk uses of different plants and then saying, okay, we're well, let's use an example, right? Like blackberry.
00:05:39
Speaker
ah Blackberry grows also in Europe and also grows in Asia and many other places. And what it where what is it used for in its home of origin? What was it used for an indigenous culture here?
00:05:50
Speaker
And how was it used in historical ways in Appalachia, where I live?
Blog and Folklore Focus
00:05:55
Speaker
And so I like to think of myself kind of like a folklorist researcher, figuring out the stories of the plants that I use in my magical practice, rather than intuiting or using personal gnosis, I personally have dedicated myself to the work of investigating the historical magical uses of plants and how I can revive that in my own life and the life of my students through my school, Blood and Spicebush School of Old Craft.
00:06:20
Speaker
I absolutely love that because i feel like we have lost a lot of that in herbalism today. We learn about what each plant does for the body and how you can use it, but we don't really learn about those histories like you're talking about, which I absolutely love.
00:06:36
Speaker
too. Yeah. And I feel like too, when it comes to the histories of certain things, whether that be plants or are really anything Something that we've noticed a lot on just in our own personal research is, oh, well, between different cultures, even though they were separated, a lot of cultures utilize the same type of plants for the same types of things.
00:07:03
Speaker
And so it was very interesting for us to realize that. And so I think especially now with magic and how you can make it your own and everybody's practice is unique and personal and and and should be.
00:07:16
Speaker
But it's nice to have that like understanding of this is historically what this plant was used for. This is what our ancestors used this plant for because you know it's one thing you know to be like, oh, you know you can use whatever color candle you want that speaks to you for X, Y, Z. But it's like, maybe we should be grounding our work in and something related to history and how what we, whether you know we're looking at a specific plant from this lens of, okay, you know this is what every book says we should use this plant for. Okay, but historically, what did our ancestors use it for? And how can we make that more magical in our usage? I think that is just beautiful.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, i really love how you said that. And I think, you know, we know that magic is a living tradition. And as a person who I'm a part of, I'm currently apprenticing to become a broker, or a Pennsylvania Dutch folk healer.
00:08:08
Speaker
I'm from Pennsylvania. Originally, that's where my family is all from. I'm German, and um Pennsylvania, German. Yeah. And so that's, you know, a specific cultural practice. And I also it fed into and informed Appalachian folk magic and medicine, which I also research and teach.
Magical Practices and Plant-Centered Journey
00:08:25
Speaker
And there's like soft boundaries around those things, right? Some things are not those things. And some things are those things. And then there's a lot of things that, you know, hoodoo shares with those things, or even like ceremonial magic shares with those things. There's Kabbalah in those things. There's a lot of like diverse practices present in all magical practices. And you you see the more you study them,
00:08:49
Speaker
even if they are like a closed practice, they're, they're informed by so many other things. And so as we add our own uses to plants, or we, and you know, do intuit something or slightly adjust a use or create one with our coven or our community, that is also valid. And I hope it doesn't come across that I'm saying, you know, don't intuit or add to your own lore because these are living traditions, you know? So I think it's really important to mention that, but you're right.
00:09:14
Speaker
Starting somewhere like with history is a good starting point or like, A foundation to build upon. Yeah. Do you want to talk about what is the green path and what like first set you wanted?
00:09:29
Speaker
The green path. Yeah, I'm sure I got that from someone else. I did not, you know, make up that term. me, you know, there's lots of like I mentioned earlier, there's so many different traditions in magic.
00:09:41
Speaker
And there's also a lot of different traditions in herbalism. And as a person who has one foot in each of those worlds, I find like the green path to me describes a plant centered magical path.
00:09:53
Speaker
I think poison path is a term coined by Dale Pendle, and like later, enhanced by Daniel Schulke, that describes, you know, focusing on the poisons or like the really augmenting plants in our witchcraft practice.
00:10:05
Speaker
But to me, the the green path is just, yeah, plant-centered practice. And I think you can walk the green path and with any of your other you know signifying words. Like you can be a ceremonial magician who walks the green path, or you can be a hoodoo practitioner that walks the green path, et cetera, et cetera.
00:10:23
Speaker
But yeah, to me, I was really called to it because I'm a nerd. Yeah. admit I was a big Ren Faire nerd and fantasy nerd as a kid. And I also was a really big historical reenactment nerd.
00:10:38
Speaker
And I worked in living history when I was ah teenager. And when I was 19, I started working at Howell Living History Farm in Lambertville, New Jersey, as an intern.
00:10:50
Speaker
And I drove horses and dressed in 1890s fashions and interpreted for, we were part of a state park. It was incredible. it was life changing. And I was like, I wanted to do this every day. Like, how can I live a life where I can garden every day? And yeah maybe you drive horses every day would be cool. I i can't do that every day, unfortunately.
00:11:10
Speaker
And I started, know, I actually was in college for medieval history and at Bard and I switched colleges and I started studying botany instead because I wanted to walk the green path. So it started in fantasy, it entered science, and it exited an ethnobotany, in history, and back to history again.
00:11:28
Speaker
So I absolutely love that. feel like, you know, all of us as kids, like, we grow up like, with these ideas of what things are. And then the older we get, we try to like, figure out how can I fit this into my life?
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah. and like, you basically you did that. Yeah, yeah. And I definitely, you know, I have a lot of people tell me, you know, oh, I could never do what you do or live like you do. And i'm like, I get it. I don't have children.
00:11:53
Speaker
I don't own a ah home. I have no savings. I, you I've chosen to learn skills and learn information and focus on that rather than building like financial security. And that's not an option for everyone. It's a privilege that I chose to do that.
00:12:08
Speaker
and Yeah. Yeah. It's been tough. You know, I don't have anything to catch me if I fall, but i am glad at 38, I look back and I'm like, I could have made different choices, but I'm so happy to be where I am.
00:12:21
Speaker
in my And that's okay. Even if I, if I maybe it should have made some different choices. I'm very happy with, with how it's turned out, but it is a sacrifice to focus on that stuff. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:38
Speaker
i Yeah, definitely. But at the same time, too, I'm just like, I wish that I had made like similar choices in life as far as like paths go. And like, because especially to with the things that we love or that we're passionate about when we're younger, you know, people, there's everybody always on the outside that's like,
00:12:57
Speaker
well, you're never going to make any money by doing X, y Z. You're never going to make any money by majoring in whatever. um This is just, this is a waste of money to put towards an education. And it's like, no, if you're passionate about something and you love it, you should, that's what you should be doing with it. Like it shouldn't be just, well, I'm going to actually major in this because I know I'll be able to get a job in that.
00:13:19
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, yes. I think that's that's beautiful. This is a little bit off topic,
Folk Herbalism and Western Medicine
00:13:25
Speaker
but whenever you are, but when it comes like movies or like literature or anything like that, that's that's more fiction. Do you ever watch things and you're like, okay, i'm I'm having a hard time getting into the show because I know the history of how.
00:13:41
Speaker
um like This is supposed to be.
00:13:47
Speaker
I am like, I am... I hate to like call myself neuro spicy, but I i probably am. i I have a photographic memory and I'm very annoying about, I can't remember like where my shoes are or what time I need to to go to an appointment the next day, even if I've looked at the phone 85 times at the calendar.
00:14:05
Speaker
But I can remember like every word to poems I memorized when I was 15 in school. And like every book that I read, I can remember a lot of the information. And i hate in movies, especially medieval movies, the costuming is always wrong. They mix 200 years together. Plants are always wrong. They film them in different continents.
00:14:25
Speaker
Like Cold Mountain, I live near Cold Mountain, was filmed in the Carpathian Mountains in Romania. Plants are completely wrong and you're like, oh my God. So I so love that you asked that. But I feel that way all the time. I try not to be that person that talks over the whole movie going, oh.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's hard to get into it though. Like that's, yeah, that's, I have only really felt that way one time because I'm not as, you know, I would have loved to like study more medieval history, especially I really love medieval history. Like whenever I was younger and um i didn't realize how off the costuming especially is whenever you're watching different movies that are supposed to be portrayed in a specific time period. And it's like,
00:15:10
Speaker
actually know like what the knights or whatever, whatever they're wearing. It's like, they didn't even have that material back then. Like, why did they put them in that? But yeah. So I've always, you know, every time I i think about that now and I'm just like, well, you know, it makes it difficult, but I still try and and we love the shows. But yeah.
00:15:31
Speaker
So sorry. That was a little off i question that was a great question i always feel like I have to just accept that things are going to be not correct all the time. But they should be. They should be. They should be. If there's a show or a movie on this specific topic, it wouldn't take that long of researching to realize this is how we dress.
00:15:56
Speaker
Think about how many books that we love that they turn into movies and we're like, that's not how it was written. Yeah. So I just feel like... As long as you separate it and you can enjoy it for what it is, I guess that's Oh, definitely. i feel like I remember reading that book, Ella Enchanted, when I was a kid. And i loved that book so much. And they made the movie. I was like, this has nothing to do with the book that I read. It's a whole different story. I was so mad.
00:16:25
Speaker
yeah I didn't even know that was based on a book. I'll have to read that. It's honestly a good read. I would reread it. Yeah, i'll have yeah I will have to read that because i I love even just revisiting books that I read like when I was in elementary school or junior high that are like, oh yeah you know, like this is technically too young for me to read again. But like, because it's based in like,
00:16:47
Speaker
you know turn of the century Victorian era. I'm going to go ahead and read that. i can i read again totally Yeah. So I guess going back into the actual topic of conversation, how would you define folk herbalism?
00:17:04
Speaker
That's a great question. i think, you know, in academia, I have a master's degree in Appalachian Studies, which is like a super lucrative degree choice, by the way, if you're looking for something to make. um My family super proud of my choices. I...
00:17:20
Speaker
ah That joke is very tired. I'll tell you guys one more time. We're going freak out. um in When we're studying you know historical cultures or looking back in history, folk generally means knowledge that or craft that is transmitted orally and is not written down and that doesn't have a canon.
00:17:41
Speaker
It doesn't have like rules or doctrine. so to me, folk herbalism is something that should be simple, straightforward doesn't mean basic.
Understanding Herbal Energetics
00:17:51
Speaker
It should be clear, easy to communicate simply, and not you wouldn't have to write it down to transmit it effectively.
00:18:00
Speaker
How would you, I guess, like in the scope of what you practice, how would you insert folk herbalism into what we see today as like Western medicine or you know to the herbalism that most people practice today?
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think um my personal brand of folk herbalism definitely involves science. And to me, it's more about things that you do not need to know botany to understand.
00:18:30
Speaker
And when I teach people how to identify plants, I generally don't teach them botanical terms and I don't teach them. I try to make it so like a seven-year-old could do it effectively. And seven-year-olds are excellent botanists and they may not know all the terms, but they're very good pattern recognizers.
00:18:46
Speaker
So in the context of modern, you know, i study Western scientific herbalism also, and i study folk herbalism. And to me, folk herbalism can be so many different things because it doesn't have a doctrine or canon, right but it should be something. And it is something that is practical, straightforward, accessible, and effective.
00:19:10
Speaker
And i also think Western herbalism should be those things. And I think it is sometimes. And sometimes it isn't. yeah And um I'm a big proponent, obviously, of Western medicine also. i would be dead without it many times over.
00:19:23
Speaker
have cancer and I've gone through a couple other intense health issues in my life. And I see the synergy, the working togetherness of herbalism and Western medicine. And to me, that that can also be a part of folk herbalism is that multi-tiered approach to health.
00:19:40
Speaker
I love that because I feel like it just gets so lost today. like You know, you have people that practice just medicine in general and it's like you bring up herbs and they're like, ah no, like, no, no herbs. And then like you have herbalists that are like, no, no medicine. And you're like, but it needs to go together.
Misconceptions in Herbalism
00:20:00
Speaker
It drives me insane. i Yeah, insane. I'm just a little perturbed. i teach ah i teach a couple different courses and stuff. And some of them are more just like very folklore heavy, very history heavy. And some I teach more just like practical skills, like how to make a tincture, how to do this. we We're talking about solubility and chemistry and things like that.
00:20:21
Speaker
And I feel comfortable talking about those things. But at the end of the day, If my student doesn't know what the word solvent means, their tinctures are still going to work. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter the way we talk about it. I want them to understand the concepts.
00:20:34
Speaker
And that's what folk practitioners historically knew. They did not know the Latin names of plants, but they could tell you in six different ways how identify the plant safely. Right.
00:20:44
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. I do too. And I love that. like it's it's very you know As Tiffany was saying, it's refreshing to talk to somebody who understands that you know there is there is that need to work together between herbalism and science.
00:20:59
Speaker
And i feel like sometimes people don't understand too that when it comes to just herbalism itself, like you were saying, like a lot of what our you know ancestors did and what you know when we think about like folk or herbalists, I cannot say that word together.
00:21:17
Speaker
While they might not think that what they're doing is science, it 100% is. They might like not understand, okay well, there's a scientific term for this specific method of using this plant, but that doesn't make it any less science. Like it's still just as, just as powerful as if you were working with it in a lab. And yeah, I think that's wonderful. And especially in today's society where it's just, it feels like, especially medicine itself is very politicized and it feels like it's, people look at things very black and white whenever we should really be looking at how we can combine these things to make, you know,
00:21:55
Speaker
make ourselves better and be healthier. It's yeah, it's, it's really nice. I so agree. it's I think it's one of the greatest destroyers of our communities is black and white thinking or demagoguery.
00:22:09
Speaker
When we see an in-group and an out-group, we identify ourselves as the in-group, the good people, the right people. And we see others as the out-group, the evil people. We should destroy those people.
00:22:19
Speaker
yeah And like we get to this extreme languaging, like Western medicine is evil and bad. Herbalism is pure and good and can't hurt you. And of course, it's never like that. There's always nuance, even in moments that seem extremely black and white.
Favorite Herbs and Their Benefits
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's ah the gift of getting older too, is realizing more and more that there's more to the story always. Yes. There's always a gray area. Exactly.
00:22:43
Speaker
I wanted to ask too, is there a specific herb that you are more drawn to than others when it comes to just your daily practice? And like, do you feel like, cause I know like I've talked with Tiffany before because so she's the herbalist between us. um i would love to work more with plants. and I'm hoping that when we get back to the States, having a space where I can, you know, grow my own plants and stuff, that I'll be able to utilize more of that. It's just difficult over here with where we live. But I remember like asking Tiffany that question a few years ago. And she's just like, you know, one of the things that she had told me was like,
00:23:22
Speaker
Have you ever heard of like all of the different ways that you can use dandelion for instance? And so just understanding that just how perfect that little plant is, Is there a plant that you're just like, I'm always just drawn to this plant because of the amount of uses that you can utilize it for and how just perfect it is? Wow, that's a great question.
00:23:44
Speaker
i i like that that's a question beyond what's your favorite herb, right? And like, yeah, in permaculture, you know, they talk about stacking functions. And when you have something like dandelion, it it can treat you know, almost every body system, depending on what part of the plant you use.
00:23:59
Speaker
I would agree dandelion is a great representative. And um I think for me, I love nettle for that same purpose, because as a practitioner of Appalachian folk medicine and magic, i also am interested in crafts and creating things out of plants beyond medicine and food.
00:24:17
Speaker
And I love nettle because it also connects me from the land base I live in to the one of my ancestors in Denmark. where um I have like 5% of my ancestry is Danish.
00:24:28
Speaker
And in ah you know prehistoric Denmark, they made cloth out of nettle stems and it's a great fiber plant. And in Nepal today, you can still buy linen made from nettles.
00:24:39
Speaker
And it's also, you know the seeds are useful, the roots are useful. The leaf is of course, one of the most nutritious green foods we've ever studied scientifically. And it's also antihistamine. It's also you know has so many but medicinal uses.
00:24:53
Speaker
It's also nutritive and just nutritious. So I think of nettle, I feel like it's a cop out to say nettle because it's like everyone's favorite herb is
Herbalism in Urban Settings
00:25:01
Speaker
nettle. But i love if we're talking about it with like, in terms of stacking functions, dandelion and nettle are great companions because they have every part can be used.
00:25:12
Speaker
for a diversity of purposes. They are a food and a medicine, and they're also low reactivity with most Western medicines. So I think they are really ideal plants to grow or work with or be able to identify safely.
00:25:27
Speaker
I love that because I feel like most people that maybe haven't studied herbalism or botany or, you know, really even looked into any anything about plants, they look at both of those plants as a pest, a nuisance, a weed to get rid of. They don't want it in their gardens. And me, I'm like, let the flowers go.
00:25:48
Speaker
My husband knows he can't mow the dandelions. He can't spray the dandelions. They are there to stay. i love that. Yeah. And I, I didn't realize until much later in life, ah much too old, but you know what, you can teach an old dog new tricks.
00:26:09
Speaker
um How important and i I will say, like, Tiffany has definitely taught me a lot of things related to herbalism, and just based on, you know, her studies and whatnot. And then just looking at in especially Western cultures, how, you know, in America now we've kind of leaned towards more of like our, depending on where you live, you may be in an HOA and you might have to have like your grass cut a specific way. And there's so many rules and regulations that keep you from having like a wild garden where everything can grow and thrive together. And it's just, it's a little sad because I feel like
00:26:49
Speaker
For some people who you know maybe are just learning about different paths and different ways of living, that they this something might not be super, I guess, accessible to them depending on where they live or how they live. If they have a house somewhere where they they can't have a full free range like garden in their front yard with just whatever wildflowers or plants are going to grow.
00:27:15
Speaker
But yeah, I didn't even know about nettle until we were living in England and we had stinging nettle in our backyard. And I was telling Tiffany about it because I'd never heard of it before. And she was like, well, you could actually use it. And I'm like, but I told you, I just like walked through it and it was yeah awful. but But I had never even heard of it before. And I'm just like, wow, how did I not even know up until I was like 33 about this plant that had so many amazing qualities to it, but I only knew it because I walked through it and I felt miserable afterwards. And then I'm like, I remember Tiffany, you're the also the one who told me about the other plant that usually grows beside it. That's more, I can't even remember what it's called, but you could use the leaves of that plant to help treat the stinging of the nettle.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I'm just like, wow, i it's amazing how the world, the earth I mean, Mother just gives you everything that you need um when it comes to some of these plants. But yeah. i Nettle is also one of my favorite, like coming out of winter, going into spring, like nettle tonics or teas or what tinctures, like whatever.
Teaching Herbalism to the Next Generation
00:28:29
Speaker
i like, I feel like that just like, I don't know what it is about it. Like it's the perfect herb for that time of year too. I mean, it's great for every time of year, but it's the perfect spring tonic. Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
I totally agree. And I, you know, it's so interesting what you said about you're like, oh, I, I'm 33 and I didn't know about the stinging nettle. You know, a lot of times when I teach my older adult students who may be in their sixties or seventies, they cry during class or have a lot of grief come up and they're like, I feel robbed.
00:29:00
Speaker
I feel like I'm so upset. There's a lot of grief there. Why don't I know this stuff? Don't I have a right? I'm a human animal. Like, how do I not know about the world around me?
00:29:13
Speaker
And it's so hard not to judge yourself or feel mad at yourself, but it's not your fault. It's very intentionally. done And you mentioned earlier, like people live in HOAs or they live in apartments. They don't own property. Property is privatized.
00:29:27
Speaker
It is illegal to forage in most public spaces. um it's a felony in some places to forage even very sustainably invasive plants. yeah And you know when the loss with the loss of the commons, which living in England, you might be more familiar with the history of commons, where people were allowed to even build little houses or farm or gather on common property. When that was abolished and property was privatized, it was intentional. You know you then you have to pay rent to landlords.
00:29:55
Speaker
You have to be extracted from to extract your living. yeah And we see that in America too, when black folks were, you know, emancipated, they, ah that coincided with the enclosure of property.
00:30:09
Speaker
So they could no longer, they could not, while they were freed from slavery on paper, they would essentially need to become enslaved again through work, you know, ah for improper pay and be it continue to be exploited.
00:30:21
Speaker
So we see this again and again on every continent with the enclosure of land and the and the thievery of the knowledge of herbs and And foraging and and gardening, growing our own food, herbal medicine.
00:30:33
Speaker
And it's I really try to avoid ah conspiracy theories or they are out to get you. But it it is like hard to know to look at that and not say this is a pointed effort.
00:30:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm. at making people dependent on a state or a government who then gives them things like food, shelter, and access to those things through their labor at very little exchange rate. It's not your fault that you didn't know the state of nettles. You should have been shown that by a beloved grandparent. you know It's like the right that's what would have been done
Herbalism as Art and Science
00:31:08
Speaker
originally. So I'm sorry. I feel your pain there. i want to give you empathy on that.
00:31:12
Speaker
So i think a question i would have, because this is something i feel like I run into a lot. How do you navigate teaching people that when you're using herbs or even medicine in general, because I feel like we don't do this there either, that we need to look at like the whole body and what's the root of the cause versus like, here's an herb to treat the symptom. Here's an herb to treat this symptom. Here's an herb, because I feel like that's like the pattern that we've gotten into now.
00:31:43
Speaker
So how, how do you explain to people and navigate that? That's a great question. And I think a lot of that comes to one of my teachers, Jim McDonald talks a lot about energetics and herbalism.
00:31:55
Speaker
And when I was first learning about herbalism, I started really studying it in 2007, I would say, i did not resonate with the idea of energetics. And I didn't like it.
00:32:06
Speaker
Because I didn't get it. And it wasn't until like the past five years, I feel like I've finally And I won't claim that I get it because I think it's a lifelong learning. For sure. But it's like saying, you know, this herb is good for cold, damp constitutions. Like that's what energetics is. You're like, this herb is warming and drying.
00:32:23
Speaker
So it's good for cold, damp. When we look at herbs in the folk lens, which is what energetics is, it's shorthand to describe their uses. ah that involves two words. you know You don't have to know, oh, this isn't antitussive. It doesn't helps you not cough. And you know this this one moves phlegm or this one does that. All you need to say is it's warming and drying.
00:32:43
Speaker
And it gives you so much information, like Ella Campaign or something like that. And so when we look at the energetics of herbs, we can start by default looking at a holistic view of the illness that we're looking at.
00:32:56
Speaker
For example, I had a chronic illness that led me to herbalism. When I was 19, I got mononucleosis ah severely. I got a severe long-term case of Epstein-Barr virus.
00:33:09
Speaker
And i had no idea what was wrong with me. I literally thought I had cancer. I was like, wasn't until later that actually would be true. But that's not ah luckily I'm fine now we're doing good. But I had a, a unproductive hacking cough.
Inside 'The Complete Folk Herbal'
00:33:23
Speaker
Anytime I exerted myself, I was exhausted. I would fall asleep while sitting up at any still moment. I would fall asleep while driving almost like an narcoleptically. And i was so frightened. I felt so sick, so deeply sick and unwell.
00:33:39
Speaker
And finally, I went to a, had gone to six doctors. None of them had a single answer. I went to my nurse at my college at University of Vermont. and She was like, honey, let's test you for mono.
00:33:50
Speaker
my God. And of course I had it extreme amount of antibodies for mono and my spleen and liver were enlarged and I was really sick. And I went, a friend recommended to me that there was an herbalist in Burlington, Vermont named Laura Brown, who has since passed, but she was an amazing woman.
00:34:07
Speaker
And she gave me three herbs and in three days, my cough had stopped after six months of dealing with it. And that was when I realized she didn't treat my mono. You know what i mean?
00:34:17
Speaker
didn't say, oh, you have mono. Let's treat the mono with, you know, this herb. She looked at the type of cough I had. What's it like? Does phlegm come up? When we ask people questions about their whole body and their whole mind and even their whole feeling soul, whether you believe in the soul, the feeling body, we can kind of build a picture of how they tend to be and pick herbs that will correspond with those tendencies.
00:34:46
Speaker
And I think, you know, I'm not a great herbalist. I teach people about the history of plants and how to identify them and make their own medicine. I would like to work towards more clinical scientific practice. That's what I'm continuing to learn myself at this stage of my life.
00:35:00
Speaker
And I hope to be able to one day be effective at that holistic feeling of the herbs and understanding what is largely a scientific process made shorthand with these ideas of energetics.
00:35:13
Speaker
And um I tried to include in my newest book, what are those words? What are the ah and energetics of the herb to give you that mental shorthand of what is what is this action in the body going to happen when I take this herb?
00:35:25
Speaker
I like this book is so well laid out. I was just like flipping through it. Like, oh, my God, everything is there. Everything is perfect. And I love that. Like you do give all the information. But then you also say, here's a little bit of background of this herb.
00:35:40
Speaker
Here's some like things that you can do with it. Here's a recipe. And I love that you just like walk us through it throughout the whole book. It's so funny because unfortunately I've been working on this book for two and a half years and I had to do the editing after I lost my business to Helene last year.
00:35:56
Speaker
And I was, I'm positive that I have made so many mistakes in this book and i wasn't able to, I was so just in such a bad place mentally. I felt so lost and it was nice to have the book to kind of cling to as I was working through it. But I think I have a lot of fear that I've made mistakes. And we, I remember like, it's okay. We can rewrite it.
00:36:17
Speaker
We can do another edition. It's okay. so world And I laugh because on the iron weed chapter, if you look at it, there's a picture of a rose. oh no and I have no idea. I don't even know how that drawing got in there, but it's like, I just laugh. Cause I'm like, we can do our best to be exacting. And at the same time, like this book to me is representation of my very human being.
00:36:41
Speaker
So I crack up whenever I see that rose and I've been showing it to everybody. i'm like, look at the Iron Way chapter. It's got a picture rose. Oh my gosh. I didn't even touch that. But it is a beautiful book and like it's so well like laid out.
00:36:55
Speaker
I love it. Thank you so much. I'm really excited to see if it will be useful to people. That's my hope with it. Yeah. I think so. mean Yeah, I feel like so. i i feel because So I've always been the kind of person who I love the idea of plants. I love i love working with herbs in my kitchen and doing... you know i haven't really forayed much into utilizing herbs and plants outside of just ingesting them um for my own like ah food and whatnot. But I always...
00:37:30
Speaker
like lean to, you know, oh, Tiffany, like what she's doing and hearing how she works with plants and and makes medicine out of them. And I'm just like, I love this. But this book specifically, because I feel like a lot of books related to herbalism can be very overwhelming if you don't already have an understanding or background.
00:37:53
Speaker
And coming to this with, I feel like a pretty novice experience when it comes to working with plants, it, I mean, it's, it's perfect because I feel like as someone who's a beginner, it this was not difficult to follow in any sort of way. And it felt like this was, it gives you the information as well as like the, the very beginning, like I've marked up so much. um i I love marking up my books and like making them my own, but like,
00:38:23
Speaker
Just, I mean, just the information, even when it comes to like foraging and stuff that I didn't even know until I'm just like, oh my gosh, like, cause I'm sitting here thinking, oh, you know, if, if I move somewhere, you know, and, and I can't have a garden, I can forage. Well, and then, you know, hearing about, well, actually you might not depending on where you live, but then understanding how, you know, Hey, so if you are foraging where you can forage, like, here's how you can do it in a way that's more, i guess, safe for the environment and safe for, for everybody to utilize that and not just humans, but like other animals and whatnot as well. And, and so having like this book, I feel like is going to become my just herbal Bible when it comes to being able to work with plants, because as much as, you know, I don't know, it's just, it's perfect. It's perfect. So even with
00:39:18
Speaker
like what you were saying with the mistakes. Oh, no, it's perfect. Like this has been my favorite herbalism book that I have. Like I keep it beside my bed because I'm just like, I'll just open up to like a specific plant and just start reading about it too. And just be like, okay, you know, like this, I didn't know I could do this with honeysuckle. Like this is amazing. This is one of my favorite things, but I just thought honeysuckle, you know, it just depends on um where it's growing and then it just smells good and it tastes delicious. I didn't know like any of the other things that you could do at Honey Cycle.
00:39:50
Speaker
Oh, it's such a great plant. I love It's Lana Serra Japonica. So it's actually native to where you are right now in Japan. which is Yeah. whole condition It is. Although I've never seen it here, but
00:40:03
Speaker
yeah, I love it though. Thank you. Yeah. i I really love making reference books because like I'm obsessed with information hoarding, like a little squirrel and A friend of mine was like, you know, you're addicted to working. And I was like, I'm not addicted to working because I like to write books. It's because I like to keep all my, I want it for me too. Like I want put everything in a way that I can reference it easily when I'm teaching or like, you know, use it when I'm writing other pieces. Cause I love to write about plants. It's one of my greatest joys of my life. And it's, yeah, it's very fun for me. It's like organized information.
00:40:37
Speaker
Not everyone's cup tea, but it's mine for sure. It's ours. Yeah. Oh, great. Good. Lovely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, with just the, our listeners as well, because we'll get questions a lot about, you know, what are your favorite, like for somebody just starting out, what are your favorite books or blogs or what podcasts do we listen to? Where do we get all of our information? and so having just a set, like, I feel like every magical practitioner, just in general, like ah a set of like, these are
00:41:11
Speaker
my Bibles in a sense of like, this is where I get my information from. This is what's helped me and having, i mean, we probably have way too many books and I don't see anything wrong with that, but like having like a handful of like, you know, I know for instance, whenever we do move back to the States, this isn't going in my household goods. This is going in my suitcase because I know that I could utilize this every day.
00:41:38
Speaker
And so having, a place where like for anybody who's practicing, especially if you're starting out because depending on what path you follow, it can be overwhelming the amount of information out there having ah specific, okay, area of expertise. You want to focus on plants. You want to focus on herbs.
00:41:58
Speaker
this is a perfect book to utilize as a tool to be able to start you on that path. Definitely. And i you know I wrote this book. This book actually doesn't have anything
Starting Your Herbalism Journey
00:42:09
Speaker
to do with magic. This book is for everyone, even if they are you know Jewish or Christian or Islamic or Buddhist. If you're not a witch, I hope this book feels accessible.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah. Sometimes people will reach out to me and I teach a couple of classes that are just about medicine making. They're not about witchcraft. And they'll reach out and go i look to your website and a little worried. Are going to make me do it? And I'm like, I'm not going to do it.
00:42:35
Speaker
Right. Yeah. but I'm not going to make you do anything. And I wanted to write this, this book, I feel like goes well with wild witchcraft. If you are witch, or it's a good book for your meemaw.
00:42:47
Speaker
Like you can give it to your grandma or your grandpa. i'll Hopefully be very offensive to them. um Because I really tried to write it in a way that it would be useful for everyone, whether they are witch or not. And if you are witch, the history section should hopefully be very interesting to you.
00:43:04
Speaker
Yeah. For the the folklore and the history. And I think as witches, we look at a lot of like books about witchcraft, when in fact we should be reading more anthropology books and history books and books of mythology. Those are the books that really have you know the meat of many of our practices.
00:43:22
Speaker
me I agree. And there are some books too, where say if it's related to a specific topic that has a lot of history and mythology as a background, it's all dependent on that author taking what they know of that history and framing it in a specific way. So if you're all you're doing is focusing on, oh, well, i I really like this author because of X, Y, Z, and I know that they are um they're writing from this very specific lens related to witchcraft in this book, and they're referencing history. Well, no, you need to take a step back, go look at the history yourself and the mythology, because the way that they perceive that history and mythology could be different than
00:44:08
Speaker
than what it actually was, or, I mean, it's everybody's perspective. And so, yeah, I having this as, you know, just something in your toolkit, whether you are following a magical path or not, I think is, is perfect.
00:44:24
Speaker
It's wonderful. I also think that this book is perfect for anyone who does practice, but maybe you're not open about it and you don't share that you practice. This book is the perfect one to have out because nobody's going to know.
00:44:39
Speaker
that's so real I didn't even think about that. really and And it's true. It's like, you know, there's so much. I appreciate what you said about looking at the primary sources of history. We are so familiar with Margaret Murray and Charles Frazier and all of these historic, you know, turn of century armchair historians who kind of fudged us in the witchcraft history.
00:44:59
Speaker
community because we have a lot of fake lore, lot fake lore. And now we have TikTok, which has produced modern witch fake lore for all of our different. And as an Appalachian practitioner, I cannot tell you how much BS I hear espoused as Appalachian folk magic online. And I'm just like, what? And this is a practice that does not have canon and it doesn't have a Bible, but it does have thick things that are it and that are definitely not it. And it's so sad to see, um yes, this is a living practice, but these living practices are getting diluted and deformed through improper, um,
00:45:41
Speaker
passages of information. And like, I was not raised in this. I was, I brought, was brought into it as an adult. It's not part of my, my family does not practice anything to do with what I do as an adult.
00:45:52
Speaker
And i am, you know, I was not raised in Appalachia. I was raised all over the place. And, It's so interesting to look at like the, the ideas of authenticity, the ideas of um what is and isn't true. It goes back to what we were saying about ah black and white thinking. Right. And I think my hope is to, in my, in this book, I actually tried to dig into some of the fake, like what do we call the urban legends?
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah. But it's spelled H-E-R-B. Paul Bergner made that term up. He's a an herbalist from Colorado that I really enjoy. and it's just like that that is so pervasive in both of our worlds of herbalism and witchcraft.
00:46:33
Speaker
And I think it's something that um we need to be softer and harder on depending on, you know, how you look at it. Yeah. That's something I feel like Sam and i kind of strive to do on this podcast when we do cover herbs or do like an herbal episode is we try to say, here's all the research that we found.
00:46:54
Speaker
These are some of the craziest things that we read about. These are some of the, like, these are the best things that we found. This is how you can use the herb. This is, you know, the history of it.
00:47:04
Speaker
But we also tell people like, you really need to be careful about what you're practicing, doing your own research, cross referencing and making sure that what you're doing is the correct thing. Because working with herbs, some people, you know, they'll just read one thing online and go, Oh, I'm going to take this thing. And you know, you can make yourself extremely sick.
00:47:25
Speaker
You could poison yourself. There's so many things that could happen or go wrong if you're not making sure that you are doing that research, putting in the work, cross-referencing your research to make sure that what you're you know doing it is correct or okay or safe.
00:47:42
Speaker
It's just something that we've always like harped on. So I just i love that like you are just like, here, here it is. Yeah. Seriously, I feel, you know, i I'm an herbal school dropout and i um I do have a degree in plant science, but I was not, I'm not part of like a particular herb teacher's lineage, which I have a lot of grief about. And I was not taught these things.
00:48:05
Speaker
My parents don't know how to identify plants. That's not, my grandparents don't know how to identify plants. That's been gone for many generations from my family. And I, it does feel like you've both mentioned just the huge amount of information there is to learn about um our magical traditions we'd like to be a part of or that we're creating or, you know, ah
Integrating Herbalism into Personal Practice
00:48:26
Speaker
herbal practice. It's just humongous. It's a huge thing to face.
00:48:29
Speaker
And my hope, you know, I, like I said, I don't have children. These books are my children. This is what I will leave when I am no longer on this plane. And I just hope that they're like a small handhold,
00:48:41
Speaker
So just help figure out, is there a little boundary I can sit inside of and say, okay, I can learn this amount about herbs and I will know something, you know, just to make it feel more doable. Cause yeah, it is an eternal work. It's an eternal life's work.
00:48:56
Speaker
I agree. I think that these books, especially like it is while, like you said, you don't have children to pass the information down to this is your, this is a legacy that you're passing down to a whole, like multiple generations of people who are interested in plants, regardless of how they're wanting to use them. so I think that's wonderful.
00:49:16
Speaker
It's a little scary, but it's really, it's amazing. and I have teenagers write to me sometimes and it's like, so i'm just going to cry even talking about it. They're so sweet. all Like I said, i so I have some young people write to me and they're like, especially about wild witchcraft.
00:49:30
Speaker
And they're like, when I read about your life being raised in like, you know, I was raised on a farm for a large portion of my childhood, but that's not really, that didn't give me those skills. It gave it inspired the love of nature for sure.
00:49:42
Speaker
But they're like, you know, I live in an apartment and I, you know, I have nowhere to grow things. And I feel like I could have a magical life just like you because you were able to do this. And I'm just like, ugh.
00:49:54
Speaker
It just reminds me too, like you can choose to live the life that you want, but there will be like sacrifices, consequences, unforeseen things.
00:50:05
Speaker
And you can do that for sure. You can make your life magical no matter where you are. how you live, what access to resources you have, like you can do that. And i i I do hope that these books make people feel like, oh, I can do this.
00:50:18
Speaker
I'm sweet enough. i I am like, welcome to do this. When I love that you said that, because I feel, i mean, Sam, you know, we say that all the time, like meet yourself where you're at. If you are in an apartment, you know, maybe have one or two herbs that you grow with a little grow light. Or if you have like a terrace on your apartment, grow them and ah out there. If you have a whole yard, utilize it you know, but meet yourself where you're at.
00:50:47
Speaker
And don't like, we tell people all the time too, like you don't have to go out and buy every herb, like pick one or two that you just really love and you want to learn about them. And And you know do all that research on those two.
00:50:58
Speaker
You don't have to have a whole apothecary cabinet like you can definitely, no matter your situation, you can bring a little bit of that plant magic into your life. It's just, you have to figure out what is that balance and where am I at? What can I manage?
00:51:13
Speaker
Beautifully said. Could not agree more. agree. And not comparing yourself to other people's magical practices. Because I feel like, especially in the age of social media, what we see online as not always reality for a lot of people. And so if you if your only reference is social media because you don't have anyone local to you that practices the things that you believe in, then it's very easy to look at that and think, oh, well, I'm not enough because I don't have all of these things.
00:51:48
Speaker
So that makes me less of. And it's like, no, like this like goes against like if you're wanting to, regardless of if if you're following a magical practice or if you're just trying to live in a way where you're growing your own food and you're wanting to be um more intuitive with how you're working with plants on a daily basis, like if you you think about it, I mean, we think about consumerism, that if we follow this path of just straight consumerism that goes against everything else that
00:52:21
Speaker
I guess would be at like the heart of herbalism and the heart of magical most magical practices because it should be use what you have. Don't compare yourself to other people and do what works best for you.
00:52:36
Speaker
And but magic and and and and I'm assuming you know with herbalism as well, that's going to look differently for everybody. um Nobody's going to have the same practice.
Community and Ethical Foraging
00:52:45
Speaker
so Definitely.
00:52:47
Speaker
Definitely. So um going back to the book specifically, whenever you talk about ethnobotany and What do you mean by that for those of our listeners who you know maybe don't understand?
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's a branch of botany, ethno meaning human. It's a study of how people have used plants over time. So the history of plants and you've both said like the stories of plants and that's really what it is.
00:53:16
Speaker
It puts the plant in context. Where does this plant originate? How did it get here? What is it used for? Why is it important to people and why is it still important to people?
00:53:27
Speaker
pe That makes it seem so simple. I really try to keep it so simple. If I can't simply define it, then I don't know it. and know i That's perfect.
00:53:38
Speaker
I love that. So I guess something that I saw on here that I was interested in asking you, what are some common misconceptions about herbalism that you've come across? us really I don't think anyone's ever asked me that.
00:53:54
Speaker
I think it's that people, well, that it doesn't work. That's the main conception is that it's magical thinking. People often do not take enough of herbs for long enough for them to work.
00:54:06
Speaker
Dosing is is important. There's so many ideas and theories about dosing. I'm a guy that takes a lot of an herb. ah And that's how it works for me. But everybody's bodies different. Some herbalists do just a couple drop doses of tinctures and have great success with that.
00:54:22
Speaker
But yeah, I think the main conception is that it doesn't work and that it is a woo woo. I get hippie a lot. That's hippie stuff. yeah It's funny is to me because I'm like, do you know where aspirin comes from? like Yeah. Do you know where aspirin comes from? um we ah We may be able to synthesize most of these things in labs now, but to me, the joy of herbalism and the reason it works is because often it's free.
00:54:48
Speaker
And that's what is really nice about it. If you're able to grow or forage your own plants, herbalism is accessible. It works. It's safe-ish. And just like Advil is safe-ish and Tylenol is safe-ish. Oh, no. Yeah. I know. why I'm so special.
00:55:06
Speaker
I think my mom took extra strength. Yeah. but my mom take i take a lot of it yeah Extra strength style can also make you like this. don't I'm just like so tired of this stuff. And this also is also, these are things we hear too.
00:55:24
Speaker
Yeah. and either It doesn't work or it's very dangerous. us Yeah. I hear both. Do you guys hear those things as well? Yes. um I also, when i first started my herbalism journey, i like without anyone even knowing that, you know, my husband and I,
00:55:43
Speaker
We're pagan or, you know, some sometimes I practice little witchcraft. Nobody knew that. And they're like, oh, you're an herbalist, so you practice witchcraft. So you work with the devil. Somebody actually said that to me and I'm like, plants?
00:55:58
Speaker
but Yeah. Plants are demonic now? ah Right. Yeah. I didn't know that. Like, weird do you not have a salad from time to time? like Have you ever used a salad?
00:56:10
Speaker
Oh, God. The shit. ah That is hilarious. Oh my gosh. I've never gotten that. I have gotten a lot of death threats over the years, though, for writing about plants and and witchcraft online. And it's, you know, I feel like I have a pretty neutral ah presence online in terms of, you know, I'm political, obviously, but I...
00:56:31
Speaker
I'm not a big guy to pick a fight. You know what i mean? It's not usually me that's going roll into your comment section and be like, I'm going school you. like That's just not what I'm here to do in my life. But the messages I get sometimes from people are disturbing and they go that same vein. I'm sorry you've also received that.
00:56:50
Speaker
ah kind of energy of assumption. And it is sad too, because yeah, who practices herbalism, right? And so then who's being associated with demonic energies and witchcraft? It's like poor people, people of color. And then queer people, like these are the people who historically have done a lot of herbalism, but men too, of course. And maybe this one are not neurotypical or you know things like that. So i think I think of Tommy Bass, like my favorite Southern folk herbalist. He never married he was like friends with everybody he was a little weird you know it's like well that that um you you can't think go up to tommy bass and say are you in league with the devil treating all these people from every race in alabama for free yeah no like that's that energy is like oh so bad it's just weird it's weird i it's like what's the intention of that question what were they trying to to say like yeah
00:57:46
Speaker
That's gross. Yeah, you caught me out. i actually am in league with the devil. but oh yeah cool thing oh Wild. Yeah. as well When it comes to foraging specifically, how would you recommend to us and our listeners to practice safe and ethically and like sustainably?
00:58:13
Speaker
Hmm. It's definitely like beyond a podcast, right? But it's also not as complicated at the same time. Both those things are true. I think the best way to start foraging is to join a local meetup group or or get together with some real humans, if you can, who are already doing it. i don't think I would have ever had the guts to put a wild plant in my mouth without another person next to me saying, it is okay to put this plant in your yeah and it is not with the rise of ai foraging books which have already hurt people because they're they're wrong yeah um we have to just be extra careful and figuring out who's teaching the class how long have they been teaching can i talk to a friend who's taken a class with them do they have a good reputation are they kind like even things like that like i've learned from a lot of plant teachers over the years who are very mean and it's
00:59:05
Speaker
That also doesn't really welcome you to foraging, you know what I mean? So that's from being right or wrong. Like, is this a good energy exchange of learning? But we have a lot of you know free plant walks and things in my town and outside of Asheville, North Carolina. And there's um classes at the Arboretum. There's classes through a company that I used to work for called No Taste Like Home, which is just foraging classes.
00:59:28
Speaker
And I think there's more and more opportunities. There's also great online classes that are a good substitute. I took um Adam Harriton. He's one of my favorite foragers from Pittsburgh, from where I was born.
00:59:40
Speaker
And he has a mushroom class and a trees class online that are excellent. Oh, wow. Very well filmed and very, very thorough. There's lots of online classes, I would say, that are like a close second to in-person learning.
00:59:54
Speaker
I don't know about you, but I feel like mushrooms are so like I want to be the person that goes out and forages a mushroom. but it's scary. They're terrifying. Yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
Yeah. They can be scary. But you know, only 10 mushrooms in our, well, where I live, there's only 10 that will kill you and there's 10,000 Yeah. So they're not as dead as you can.
01:00:16
Speaker
Right? Someone will make you wish you were dead. but you mushrooms there's tons of mushroom clubs and um different people doing stuff like that and yeah the more people you can get together with in person I was trained mushroom foraging in person by a mycologist and it's there's tons of mushroom classes nowadays so yeah more and more accessible I have a few friends that do it and I'm just like I am terrified of that too you eat it first I'm like I will get mine from a reputable source right out and then I will work with them there
01:00:54
Speaker
Totally valid. We don't have to learn everything too. That's why a community. You don't have to part of everything. You're allowed to, yeah. Your friend is a forager that does mushrooms. so Wonderful. You know more plants? We can share. That's the point in the community, right? Yeah.
01:01:07
Speaker
I love that. Oh my gosh, same. I think as well, just even like the classes that you mentioned for foraging and whatnot, I think that's amazing advice for everyone because even just...
01:01:23
Speaker
As somebody who is wanting to start out being more intentional with how I use plants and what I grow and whatnot, that is going to be one of the first things that I do when we move to Washington, because I'm sure that there's probably a lot of,
01:01:37
Speaker
groups like that as well. Or I'm a hopeful, fingers crossed that there's a lot of foraging groups and stuff because I think everybody should do it. I mean, even if it's just to familiar yourself with what is on the land, what is growing on the land that you live on currently and how can you utilize that?
01:01:56
Speaker
Definitely. And one of my favorite teachers lives in Washington. Her name is Corinne Boyer. She's also written a ton of books on plant magic, and she runs an herb school there. Oh, my She's a wonderful teacher. know, right?
01:02:08
Speaker
that down yeah she's amazing she's wonderful I'm gonna be looking that up later on because that is yeah that's perfect I wish I would have done that when we moved here to Okinawa because there are so many different kinds of plants there are a lot of things here on this island who can't that can kill you regardless of like whether that be a plant or like a an animal or certain insects and stuff have, there's a lot of spicy animals and stuff here that it's very scary.
01:02:45
Speaker
It's like, oh, don't touch that. That will kill you. And it's like, it's a worm. do you mean? It's on my back patio. um But only I think having that here, I'm sure they they have it. But if, especially for any English speaking people, because we there's a lot of outside of just the American military population here, there's a lot of different groups of people here from all different walks of life. And a lot of people who live in Okinawa, they do speak English. So having, um although I mean,
01:03:18
Speaker
We really should be you know trying to speak the native language, but having an introductory lesson to this area and what is native to this area Yeah. Now I'm just like, man, I wish three years ago when we moved here, I would have looked into that because I'm sure that there is a lot of that here, but it's just knowing where to look to find that.
01:03:40
Speaker
But yeah. Yeah. i feel like you can find it almost everywhere. And you know there's groups like Meetup and things like that still to this day that and Facebook groups that you can find a lot of information on. so One thing to kind of close out the conversation that I was thinking of adding was what is one step that we can all take today that could set us on our own either green path or just herbal path?
01:04:06
Speaker
I think one step you could do is learn the history of where you live. who are the first people? Are they still there? Is there anything you can do to support them or like meet, help meet their needs? Like for me, I live on Cherokee land.
01:04:21
Speaker
And so I think a lot about what I can do to support the continuance and thriving of the Cherokee nation. And i think about the people, who know, who were enslaved here, what part of West Africa, where they brought here from.
01:04:35
Speaker
yeah, You know, how can I be in good relationship with the people who made it possible for me to know these plants? And also, yeah learning the plants of your own ancestors, what plants were important to them.
01:04:47
Speaker
this it can give you that little boundary. I think having boundaries is important. There's a bajillion plants in the world. So having a little circle to start in and then see where you want to branch out, like a little spider web, you know.
01:05:00
Speaker
and love that. Yeah, that is ah that's amazing. i I love that too. And especially giving, you know for a lot of us, we don't necessarily often live in the same place where our ancestors came from or you know we're living someplace else where you know, we this might not be home for us, but this is where we find ourselves now giving, paying respect to the land and the people that came before, I think is so important. And understanding that history um is very important as well. I love that.
01:05:37
Speaker
And that's something that was taught to me as well. You know, like, when you're in relationship with the land, it's with everyone, right? It's not just the plants you like, it's not your neighbors you like, it's everyone. And it's, you know, the reason the the meanest letters I get about wild witchcraft are people saying you hate white people. This book is full of white guilt. And I'm like, I hate that that's what you're taking from this. Cause I want it to be an invitation to knowing yourself better and loving yourself more and loving, you know, knowing real history shouldn't feel like punishment. You can feel sad. You should feel upset about it. You have empathy and that's good if you feel sad, but it's not your personal fault and no one is saying that.
01:06:19
Speaker
And I think we get so caught up in that. And we see that now with what's happening in our country where they're trying to remove us feeling uncomfortable because we don't know how to compartmentalize. My ancestors did really horrible things to other people.
01:06:32
Speaker
So did other people's ancestors. A lot of ours did. yeah it doesn't mean that we're unworthy beings. It also means we have a responsibility. If we want to benefit from the things that our ancestors did that are hurtful, the bare minimum we can do is at least know the truth about it.
01:06:48
Speaker
yeah And it does like, I don't want it to be guilt. It really should be an invitation saying, thank the gods. I know the truth that I'm living in
Closing Thoughts and Next Episode Teaser
01:06:57
Speaker
truth. And there's so many things you can choose to do depending on your ability around those truths.
01:07:03
Speaker
But at the end of the day, that's what I hope is that it's an invitation. And, you know, when you start learning your ancestral herbalism's it should feel like a celebration. It's a coming home. You're welcome fully into something, you know? And that is really special for us who are like orphans culturally. so Yeah.
01:07:23
Speaker
I love that. That was so beautifully said. Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for having me today. today It's been an absolute pleasure both of you. You have such wonderful energy. ah so do you.
01:07:34
Speaker
Is there anything else you want to share about the book? Nothing is complete, but it's nice to have that boundary of knowledge. And that's, you know, the book is called The Complete Folk Herbal, just like John Gerrard's, you know, 16th century classic, but it is not complete and nothing ever is.
01:07:51
Speaker
And yeah, I'll leave you with that. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us. This has been wonderful.
01:08:02
Speaker
Thank you so much. thanks Thanks to both of you. It was pleasure to meet such well-traveled and interesting people.
01:08:19
Speaker
That's a wrap on this episode of Get In Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft. We hope you had as much fun as we did. If you love this episode, we'd be eternally grateful if you left us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
01:08:31
Speaker
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01:08:50
Speaker
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01:09:03
Speaker
Join us next week as we journey into the realm of necromancy. Until next time, stay magical, stay curious, and as always, blessed be witches.