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13. My Life As A Refugee: Persecution, Escape & Freedom! -With Mona Heern
74 Plays5 years ago
Mona Heern shares with us about her life growing up in Iran during the Revolution. How it was for her to experience the death of her dad when she was 10 years old, and how her family endured persecution and how then escaped Iran. Listen to her inspiring story!
Music: www.rinaldisound.net
Production: Carlos Andres Londono
Get in touch with Kendra: www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
Embracing Detachment and Friendship
00:00:03
Speaker
learning detachment to material things at such an early age. And I feel after that also learning detachment from people that you cherish those friendships, you cherish those experiences while you're physically with people, you know, in that moment, but also that our lives are not defined by constantly being with the same people.
Introduction to 'Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between'
00:00:31
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:55
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys.
Welcoming Mona Kashani Hearn
00:01:06
Speaker
I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:17
Speaker
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode. I am very excited to have my friend Mona Kashani Hearn. I knew her as Mona Kashani. Now she's Mona Hearn. But back in the day, we met in our college years, and I actually also know her husband because we're all college. Yeah, we're all
00:01:41
Speaker
living in LA during our college year. So I'm really excited to have her on. And Mona is a busy mom of two teachers at the university level. And right now, I'm sure she's wearing all those hats as many of us are during this time of being home. So I am so grateful that Mona, that you took the time to be on our episode today. So welcome, my dear. Thank you for having me.
00:02:10
Speaker
I am so excited that you're on. And one of the things too, aside from all those titles, I like to say that Mona is one of the most radiant souls I've met in my life. And I can say that completely honestly, just always with a smile on her face, just gleaming and her eyes always shine. So that is something for you guys that are just listening to her voice, just imagine just a radiant smile and
00:02:36
Speaker
you know, shimmering eyes because that's her soul speaking through. So just wanted to just throw that out there for everybody else. So Mona, thank you again, honey, for taking the time to talk
Mona's Childhood in Iran
00:02:49
Speaker
today. And we are going to jump
00:02:52
Speaker
right in to sharing a little bit about why it is I have you on this podcast to share your journey and all the beautiful, grateful moments that have come from the experiences you've had and how you've been able to then give back from those experience to others. So let's start a little bit with your upbringing. So you were born
00:03:19
Speaker
in Iran, correct?
Father's Arrest and Imprisonment
00:03:21
Speaker
Let's start there. Yeah, so I was born in a Baha'i family in Iran and as many people know, Baha'is are persecuted in Iran and till about the age of eight, I had this really perfect childhood and
00:03:41
Speaker
the revolution in Iran happened and I saw a lot of people struggling and a lot of people, especially Baha'is, you know, losing their jobs and their retirement and you always heard stories of Baha'is being arrested. However, my parents, like all parents around the world, always tried to create a very loving and peaceful environment at home for us. So although I knew that as a Baha'i, that Baha'is in Iran were
00:04:10
Speaker
being persecuted as a child it hadn't yet impacted my family and one day we went to visit my father's uncle in the city of Tehran which is the capital city and my dad just said you know I'm just gonna go quickly to work and he worked in Tehran and he went and he never came back and we waited for him and
00:04:35
Speaker
My mother went to his place of business looking for him and she found out that he was arrested because he was a Baha'i by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. However, for a very long period of times, for several of months, we didn't know if he was alive or where he was because we would go to different prisons and they just wouldn't give us any answers.
00:05:03
Speaker
So that was a really difficult time, those first couple of months, not knowing where he was. And then finally, I believe it was after seven months or so, we finally found out that he was being held in the notorious Evin prison.
00:05:23
Speaker
And after 10 months, they finally gave us visitations, you know, where they they would allow us once a month for 10 minutes to go to the prison to to visit him.
Tragic Loss and Persecution
00:05:38
Speaker
So once a month, 10 minutes. So after 10 months of not knowing where your father was, 10 months later, you finally are able to start visiting and you only would get 10 minutes once a month to see him.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, it's so interesting because someone can look at it and say, gosh, 10 minutes is so little, right? And, you know, we would go and we lived in a town about an hour from Tehran. So we would have to take the bus and take another bus because the prison is kind of
00:06:08
Speaker
out of town, you know, it's not easily accessible and we would go and there were many Baha'is there and we would, gosh, stand in line. Just as a child, it seemed to me forever, like maybe for half a day and they would have the Baha'is stand there forever and then
00:06:25
Speaker
you know, you would finally go in and as a nine-year-old by this time, it was just kind of scary because, you know, you have the 10 minutes, but you enter the visitation room and they have all the prisoners lined up behind, you know, glass, you know, glass windows and there is a phone and there are soldiers standing there with guns and
00:06:52
Speaker
10 minutes seems so short but also as a kid and as everybody was a little bit like paranoid of like what to say you're scared of saying the wrong thing so it was both short and long to some extent because it's like you can't really freely talk or you can't I couldn't go around and give my dad a hug so it would be always a one-day event of like trying to go
00:07:18
Speaker
to visit him but at the same time I had created this little calendar for myself of you know marking the days off and it was just like the most glorious occasion of getting ready and having the opportunity to go and visit him in prison. Wow this is an experience of a nine-year-old and this went on for how long?
00:07:44
Speaker
so this is what we did you know like on again as i said once a month we could go and visit my dad and then one day i remember it it was january and in the city of tahran gosh winters are really
00:08:01
Speaker
I really cold you know there's just snow everywhere and I just remember it was like a January day and it was super cold and we went for a visit so again you know same thing you had to take you know the bus and get there and stand in line in the snow for hours and hours and finally you know but we're excited you know all these people we are all standing in line outside and
00:08:26
Speaker
And my mom had the visitation card and we went, it was our turn, you know, so she gave this visitation card to this soldier and he kind of looked at it and you could see he was surprised, you know, and he said, what are you doing here? And my mom said, oh, we're here to, you know, to visit my husband.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I just never forget it. He just started laughing. And he said, gosh, I can't believe that no one told you, but your husband, yeah, we killed him a month ago. And that's how we found out that my dad, along with a number of other Baha'is,
00:09:09
Speaker
had previously been killed just because he was a member of the Baha'i faith, just because he has a different religion. And in those circumstances, we basically found out that he was killed and then someone went to the back and they gave us like a little bag with some of his clothes. And I remember his shoes were in there.
00:09:35
Speaker
And those circum and they gave us like an address and they said, you know go he's buried where all the Baha'is that we have killed are buried basically, so That's how we found out, you know that He had been killed and then it just You know, that was the moment after so he was all together in prison for about 19 months and
00:10:00
Speaker
19 months and then again you get there, travel, excited, writing it in your little calendar to go and see your father and you get there an hour and a half after bus rides to find out and to have this image stuck in your head of this guard's face and laughter at your family's
00:10:24
Speaker
at your family's visit to come and see your dad and to kind of tell you in your face that way and just hand you a bag of his things. I'm seeing that in my head and I can't even imagine like
00:10:37
Speaker
how that would impact that memory. Thank you for sharing that. That is a lot. So at that moment, and for those listeners, just make sure to find out a little bit more about this process. But yes, in the country of Iran, then and still now, several minority religions put an unquote, and you could explain it probably better than I can,
00:11:05
Speaker
Mona, but the Baha'is and other minority religions are not allowed to practice basically. So this has been happening for decades, well centuries, centuries really, but often on
00:11:20
Speaker
through centuries, correct? So during the revolution was one of the highest peak times in the Iranian history that a lot of these events like your father and many other Baha'is at that time were imprisoned and then also martyred or killed. And it's still going on, correct? It's still happening.
00:11:47
Speaker
Absolutely. I think persecution takes different forms. And when I lived in Iran,
Escape to Pakistan
00:11:53
Speaker
nearly every Baha'i that I knew was experiencing some form of persecution. In my case, my father was imprisoned and then eventually killed in other people's cases.
00:12:06
Speaker
they would lose their job or they would lose their retirement or they couldn't go to the university. So everybody that I knew, just because they're members of the Baha'i faith, they were experiencing difficulties and challenges in different formats.
00:12:24
Speaker
Mm hmm. And so then at that time, then you're you're about nine, or at that point, maybe it was at around nine still when you found out then that in that January that you found out that your father had died. How long after then did you your family leave Iran?
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, so for me, it was really interesting because like during this time, as I said, so my dad was in prison for about 19 months and then one of his brother, who was my uncle, he was also arrested and put in prison and he was in prison for five years.
00:12:58
Speaker
and then he was released and then they arrested him again for being a Baha'i and he was in prison for another five years. So, and despite all these challenges that were going on, the one place for me that I felt I could escape, you know, and a place that I could just like be myself, believe it or not was going to school, you know, and I just,
00:13:24
Speaker
loved going to school and all I had to worry about was a silly, you know, word problem or reading a story or writing an essay or drawing a picture and I just loved being, you know, in that setting and I've always loved school and I never forget it. So this is after, you know, we had found out that my father had
00:13:47
Speaker
passed away. I was in school and I remember the principal walked in and you could see she was just so sad and just really you know her eyes were red you could see you know she had been crying and this is also during the time that the Iran-Iraq War was going on so you always heard you know news of people you know
00:14:09
Speaker
teachers, family members or brothers, you know, getting killed during the war. So we didn't know what was going on, but she was, you know, obviously really sad. And she walked in and she asked, she said, who are the Baha'i kids in this class? And a number of us raised our hands and she just was so emotional. And she said, I am so sorry, but I have a letter here from the Iranian government that says that
00:14:37
Speaker
if you're a Baha'i, you cannot come to school anymore. That Baha'i children were basically denied access to education. Up to that point, it was just you can't go to the university. But at this point,
00:14:52
Speaker
They're like, you can't even go to the elementary school. And to me, that was just, I remember being taken into the principal's office and there is all these people trying to convince you that your parents are part of the wrong faith and you need to change your religion. And if you do, you can stay at school. And here by this time, I think I'm 10, I'm like trying to defend my faith.
00:15:19
Speaker
you know, in front of all these grownups. And at the end, you know, they wrote a letter and in the letter it said, you know, she has great citizenship, she has good grades, but because she's refusing to recant her pay, she can't stay at the school anymore. So I just remember walking home with this, you know, letter completely heartbroken that I couldn't go to school.
00:15:45
Speaker
That was your haven. That was your little haven. That was your part of kind of feeling connected. And then that's also ripped from under you. Wow, that is so much. So you're walking home and then you have this letter, heartbroken, you get home and what happens?
00:16:01
Speaker
So my mom, like all moms, you know, it's like in the Baha'i faith, you know, education is a law, you know, you're supposed to be educated. So she said, no problem, tomorrow we're going to go and register you at a different school. So she drove me across town and we went and registered in another school and I was there for about a week.
00:16:23
Speaker
And then I guess that principle finally got the letter too. And, you know, and she came and then same thing. And, you know, in the Baha'i faith, we are told that truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues. So there is this idea that even, you know, as a Baha'i child, it never occurred to my mind, you know, I can lie, you know, because it's just not who Baha'is are, right? We believe in
00:16:48
Speaker
being truthful and so I think I was at that second school for about a week or so and then most of my education then happened at home and then later after some weeks and some other incidents that happened we decided to leave Iran and
Strength and Joy Amidst Hardship
00:17:13
Speaker
And at that time, Baha'is couldn't just get a passport. If you're a Baha'i, you can't just leave the country. So the only way to leave the country was to escape through the mountains, which was like this really difficult journey that took about five to seven days. And then we decided as a family to escape
00:17:39
Speaker
and to get to go as refugees to Pakistan. So it was my mom, my sister and I, she was five. By this time I'm 10. And I remember we lived in this beautiful home and I had a room full of toys and
00:17:58
Speaker
full of things, you know, that kids have, that things that we are attached to, you know, our artwork and our books and toys and all these things. And my mom said, you know, we are leaving today. And they have told us that we cannot bring anything. We can only bring a backpack with just like a pair of pajamas and just few things.
00:18:21
Speaker
And I just remember her saying, we couldn't even take a toy. So we had this house that we lived in with everything in it. You have the beds and the drapes and the toys and everything, the garden. And I just remember walking away from that home with absolutely taking nothing and just stepping away from everything.
00:18:49
Speaker
and stayed with a family member for a few days and just, as I said, embarked on this difficult journey on Camelback, you know, leaving the country.
00:19:05
Speaker
And we got to Pakistan. And of course, again, we are Baha'is. We don't have any paperwork. We don't have a passport. We don't have any, you know, you're escaping. You're to some extent illegal immigrants, right? And once we got there, we got arrested and were put in prison because, you know, they were like,
00:19:26
Speaker
you people try to enter the country and they kept saying their eyes and you know, we're trying to get refugee status and So that was like again You know here you feel like you're fleeing for freedom and then like you're sitting in a prison cell How long was that journey how long was the journey do you remember yeah, yeah, so the journey was about like I wouldn't say six days, you know and
00:19:56
Speaker
And then in the prison, how long? It was only a day. So we were so lucky because one of the Baha'is who was in that prison with us was begging one of the guards to allow us to make a phone call. And he kept saying, you're illegal. You tried to enter the country illegally. And we kept saying, you're Baha'is, we are refugees. And he was just begging them to allow
00:20:24
Speaker
him to make a phone call and he wouldn't, so this guard would refuse to do that, right? And then at night the guards changed and then this guy started doing the same thing, you know, begging the new guard, you know, allow me to make a phone call, you know? And he finally did and right away he called the Baha'i Center
00:20:45
Speaker
in Karachi, which is the largest town in Pakistan. And of course, as soon as the Baha'is found out, they went to the United Nations and they came. And I never forget it because the night that we arrived in Pakistan was no ruse, which is the Baha'i New Year.
Life in Germany and the U.S.
00:21:05
Speaker
And for those of us who come from the Persian background, it's the biggest celebration in Iran as well because it's New Year, right? So it's New Year and we're sitting in this prison and it's nighttime and my mom just like put us in our pajamas, you know, and we're sitting in this like dark room.
00:21:26
Speaker
and it's kind of late like around nine o'clock at night or maybe later and the door opened and there was this man standing there and he just said who are the Baha'is and we just heard the word Baha'i we kind of raised our hands
00:21:42
Speaker
And he said the Baha'i greeting Allahu Akbar. And he said, Allahu Akbar, let's get out of here. Which it means in, it's an Arabic saying and it means God is the most glorious is what that is saying. But that is how Baha'is greet each other. But just so that the English speaking English speaking population, which I'm English speaking myself, but just so we know what it is.
00:22:06
Speaker
That is amazing. But it's like when you would hear that word of the what is the who are Baha'is, would that little feeling of like the knot in your stomach still come to be like being that that was the same question when you were like in school and the principal coming in and asking who are the Baha'is and that being the time that you were then told you couldn't come back to school.
00:22:28
Speaker
When that when he entered do you remember there was a little bit of that feeling of the oh my gosh like what's gonna happen if we say we are like it must have been like such a big contrast of suddenly hearing good news right of like Allah upon how you know and getting you out of there like it that must have been like I'm just seeing those two contrasts of who are the Baha'is from what your teachers perspective and now sorry the principal's perspective back in Iran and now here and
00:22:56
Speaker
in the prison in Pakistan. It's just such a big contrast. Yeah, it was like, here we go again, and I'm like, oh, that's a good thing. Yes. How did your mom, and I want to hear a little bit more about your journey in Pakistan,
00:23:17
Speaker
how your life changed there, but what did your mom do for you and your sister to make this process of all these grieving things and transitions have some kind of, I don't know, I don't know if even the word normalcy or is even valid in this, but what do you remember it being a constant in that whole journey?
00:23:42
Speaker
You know, from the very beginning, the three of us, my mom, my sister and I, we were a tight unit. We were always close, of course, when my dad was around as well. But when my dad went to prison and everything, we all just became, I don't know how else to describe it, but our hearts were just cemented together.
00:24:03
Speaker
And my mom, for anyone who knows her, she's just such a fun person. It's just her personality. She has a great sense of humor. And she's just very lively and very social.
Healing Through Storytelling
00:24:17
Speaker
And in any setting, I'd like to just share one memory. I remember when my dad was in prison, we lived in a house that had three or four bedrooms.
00:24:33
Speaker
During that time, we could only afford warming up one of the rooms. So we all moved into this one room. And the winters in Iran are just so cold and lots of snow. And there were other Baha'i children whose parents were in prison. And some of my favorite memories of my childhood is my mom organizing
00:24:57
Speaker
sleepovers where all these other children whose dads were in prison they would come and it would be like so many of us you know in one room in that tiny room all sleeping in the same bed watching movies playing games laughing and it's just and then my mom in the neighborhood that we lived
00:25:21
Speaker
In our entire neighborhood, she was the only woman who not only had a driver's license, but also had a car. This was like all the kids in the neighborhood. It's like a big deal. This is a big deal in that time for a woman to have a driver's license in that particular area. Was it just not something that a lot of women had?
00:25:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And for her to have her own car, it was like a big deal. Like I was like the cool kid in the neighborhood, despite the fact that I was a Baha'i. Oh my gosh, your mom knows how to drive and she has her own car. That's amazing.
00:25:58
Speaker
So during the time my dad was in prison, as I said, there were other families in the same booth as us, right? And I just remember she had this car and we would just go and pick up all these kids that go on picnics. I mean, again, it's just her personality. She's so social, so happy, so full of love and humor. And some of it sounds
00:26:24
Speaker
strange, but some of my most painful times are when my dad was in prison, but also because of what my mom was able to do for us. You know, it was creating a normal and creating joy amidst all this. I even remember when we were on this journey to Pakistan, you know, we were like walking or we were on camelback for like a week and nobody has bottles of water.
00:26:54
Speaker
You drank water whenever you saw a river, you know? And I had this, and for some reason, you know, as a 10-year-old, I kept telling my mom, you know, I remember I complained about it once, you know, in the journey, and she knew I loved, at that time as a child, for some reason I loved grape juice. And then she would make up all these stories. She's like, oh, when we get to Pakistan,
00:27:20
Speaker
they have the best grape juice in the world and she would like make up all these stories about like all the things that we're gonna do and we're gonna get once we get there so I don't know I felt like I just like laughing and daydreaming about all these things that is gonna happen once we're in freedom you know
00:27:46
Speaker
that is just so beautiful because again she just did the best and i mean in that scenario being here not only was she a widow but she was a widow with two children escaping a country on her own with these two children under 10 years old two under two two under two two under 10 and um
00:28:06
Speaker
going to a new country and a new experience and still being able to keep that positive outlook, that must have been a really impactful memory, of course, for you and also a learning to be able to even take on now as your role now as a mom as well. I'm sure that those life experiences have had an impact on how you even choose to parent your
00:28:34
Speaker
your kids too. In those hard moments, I'm sure you tell them that to look forward to some grape juice. That there's grape juice and just wait, there's grape juice in the other country or wherever it is, the little journeys. After this road trip, we get to some grape juice. So how long were you guys in Pakistan? How long was your family in Pakistan?
00:28:56
Speaker
So we were there for about three years, you know, when you're a refugee, you're kind of waiting for a country to take you in. Right. So we were there for about three years. And and after that, you know, after three years, we ended up in Germany and
00:29:13
Speaker
But, you know, we moved to Germany and it's like coming to a new country. Again, again. So here you go, not only that, but then you're going to a country that Pakistan
Inspiring Resilience in Students
00:29:26
Speaker
was another language. Then there for three years, you were able to go to school there when you were in Pakistan?
00:29:33
Speaker
For parts of the time, but really not much. But then the Baha'i community is often so service-oriented and so organized. And for me, I have moved so much in my life, but the one constant thing in my life has always been the Baha'i community.
00:29:58
Speaker
have to say, whenever we have moved, all you do is, you know, call the Baha'i National Center and you say, I have moved into this town in the middle of nowhere. Are there any Baha'is? And right, you know, they are like, yeah, there is like five of them or a hundred of them. Here is the number of someone you can call. And I have found that wherever we have moved, we have contacted that person. And right away, you have friends and you have kind of
00:30:28
Speaker
And that's how it was in Pakistan because it was amazing what the Baha'is in Pakistan did for the Iranian Baha'i refugees. I remember coming to the town of Islamabad, which is a capital city
00:30:43
Speaker
and they had turned the Baha'i Center into a place where not all but many Iranian Baha'i refugee families lived. So in every room you had two or three families living together.
00:30:59
Speaker
we all we're living at the Baha'i Center and you know and then they have the big you know room where all the activities are held and it was you had all these people who escaped and some of them were professors and teachers and one person would be teaching you know English classes another person would be teaching chess you know somebody else is teaching you know all sorts of classes so I felt during the time that I was there
00:31:28
Speaker
I got an education. It wasn't a formal education in terms of a school setting, but we were busy. We were busy in a good way. And it was, again, thinking of that time, there was a lot of hardship associated with it, but there was also so much love and so much joy.
00:31:52
Speaker
associated with that time period because you're with these people who are all sharing the same experience you know and we're all in this together waiting for a country to take us in and there will be like a goodbye party every so often you know someone
00:32:07
Speaker
to somebody that had left. Who had to leave that they had, you know, they were going to Ireland or Brazil or wherever, you know, they were accepted. That must have been bittersweet. That must have been bittersweet too, because you were excited for these friends that you had made to now have a home. But it was also probably sad to see some of these friends go too, because you were that close
00:32:29
Speaker
during those three years of people being here and kind of using each other for support, that must have also been hard, right? Like a little bit, like bittersweet.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like all my life what I have found is it has my life has been a life of detachment loving to learning to enjoy the moment, you know, but also not being attached to that moment and knowing that there is always a You know, I always look at moving Moving is hard no matter what, you know, you have to start all over again sometimes we need to start a new career or a new job and
00:33:08
Speaker
But at the same time you meet so many new people that you didn't know before and they enrich your life and it creates beautiful experiences So I feel you know how I was sharing I had to like at an age of 10 just like leave this house We lived in with everything in it without taking anything, you know and learning detachment to material things at such an early age And I feel after that also learning
00:33:35
Speaker
detachment from people that you cherish those friendships, you cherish those experiences while you're physically with people, you know, in that moment, but also that our lives are not defined by constantly being with the same people.
00:33:52
Speaker
That is just so powerful what you're saying right now, because especially right now in which as we're recording this, we're still in quarantine throughout the world and due to the pandemic. But that aspect of not being attached to actually being present in actually physical presence with people, because those friendships can also even remain even in the distance. You have to do that every single time you've moved.
00:34:20
Speaker
Throughout your life that some of these friendships have continued just have changed, right? But also some of them have just served their purpose in the moment of time that they were Meant to be during the time that you lived in the same place and maybe you don't continue talking about it But you're not talking to these people but you're still Grateful for that experience. So that is that is a huge learning and being that you were talking about that experience I'm going back to
00:34:48
Speaker
being again in Pakistan and learning all these things that it was not formal school, but the lessons that you learned in that environment.
00:34:56
Speaker
are like way bigger than anything else we can take in life of learning how to add or multiply because they're life lessons of detachment and of looking for joy and heart, you know, looking for the beauty in life and enjoying the moment as it comes as well. So thank you for sharing that.
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah, we moved to Germany. And again, like, it was interesting to come from three years of living with so many people, you know, and in like a community setting. And suddenly we moved into this like tiny town in northern Germany.
00:35:43
Speaker
And having, you know, to learn a new language and all of that, you know, it was hard. But again, there was a Baha'i community and you kind of wrote through those experiences. And then later on in life, I had the wonderful opportunity to get a student visa and move to the United States to study. And that's where you and I met each other. Yes, we met.
00:36:13
Speaker
Los Angeles, Santa Monica College, woo woo woo, and then move on to CSUN. In terms of that, of the moving and the language, how did you adapt to those parts of learning a language
00:36:32
Speaker
You know when you moved to from Pakistan to Germany from Germany to the States Did you already know English in Germany before you because when I met you you could you spoke fluent English already? So was it something you learned at school in Germany?
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah, so in Germany, I think from elementary school or so, kids learn English. And then I believe that once you get to middle school, they also add French to it. So I came and
00:37:03
Speaker
truthfully because I was like my sister started first grade so her process was a little bit easier you know to kind of learn the language and my you know whereas like in my case it was like oh my gosh like it I had to learn the language and be able to keep up with all these academic you know subjects and
00:37:26
Speaker
So I feel I learned so much of my language from the kids in the neighborhood, you know, just making friends. And so for the longest time, I talked like a teenager, you know, and use the same terminology. The lingo, the lingo. Yeah, the lingo. And then like, I would have. You were cool. You were cool then. And then like, I would have like older German Baha'is saying, Mona, we don't talk like that, you know.
00:37:54
Speaker
So they would kind of like say, you know, that's the language people use on the street not in you know, so It was a process but yeah, I learned English in You know at school and then you know coming to the States
00:38:12
Speaker
You know, just again, you just pick it up. You know how it is. You know, we have the same experience, you know? Yeah, we came as, you know, in our late teens, but we also like the same. I learned English and, you know, growing up, my dad did speak English. So language was not the, you know, something I had to learn when I came, but even still, I still have an accent, you know, it doesn't matter how long I've known English. I still have an accent and it, but.
00:38:36
Speaker
But anyway, now you came to the States, you came with a student visa and then you stayed. You stayed and then your mom was still in Germany at that time.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah, so they were in Germany and then my grandparents however, I remember you lived with your grandma and I live with my grandparents when we met and So my grandparents were in California and then after a couple of years they moved also to California so it was really nice to you know to be together and
00:39:09
Speaker
And it was just so wonderful. I can't describe the experience like being in college here and suddenly like, and I had decided to become a teacher. So to, you know, to study and it was always emotional because I have family members and friends who are still in Iran and always thinking, gosh, here I'm in a university setting and I have the freedom to study.
00:39:39
Speaker
I have the freedom to become a teacher and get a job as a teacher. Often these things that other people might take for granted. For me, I always have this idea that, man, this would not be possible if we had stayed in Iran. I wouldn't be allowed to be a teacher. I wouldn't be allowed to go to the university and fulfill my potential.
00:40:00
Speaker
So that just was something that I always think about and I'm really grateful for.
Cultural and Spiritual Connections
00:40:09
Speaker
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. In that experience as a teacher now, you've been able to implement all these life learnings in that role now as an educator. We had a little bit of a conversation prior.
00:40:27
Speaker
to start deciding to record this podcast. And I'd love for you to share what happened in Salt Lake City when you guys lived there in that setting, what we were talking about of the theater teacher and all that kind of stuff. So go ahead, take it on. Take it on. Share that anecdote. I love it.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah, so you knew me. So anyone who knew me before 2005 was a significant year for me. But any friend that I ever had, so my whole experience in LA, people who knew me and in Germany, anytime I would talk about my father and the experience of what happened,
00:41:13
Speaker
I would tell the story. I would share my life story with friends. However, I couldn't stop. I would talk about my father's and just tears would come down. I could never mention his name or talk about him without tears just coming down my face. And there were times I would be frustrated about it. I'm like, why can't I not control these tears?
00:41:41
Speaker
And I was so proud of him. I was so proud of him giving his life for what he believed in, for him for being steadfast. He could have recanted his faith, and he was steadfast, and he was strong, and he was brave. And I was so proud of him. But at the same time, whenever I would tell others about my experience of losing him, I would get very emotional. And I couldn't control these tears.
00:42:11
Speaker
And anybody, again, who knew me and has heard my story, they will say, yeah, I remember you telling the story to me and you were very emotional about it. And I think often people don't know what to do when people cry, right? It makes us feel uncomfortable. You're like, gosh, how do I make this person laugh? How do I fix it? How do I fix it?
00:42:39
Speaker
Do I give this person a hug? Don't give them a hug. Do I make them laugh? Or some people want to psychoanalyze you in that moment. Why are you crying? So it's always awkward. And it was to the point that I didn't want to share my experiences and losing my father with many people because I felt that moment would make me emotional, right?
00:43:09
Speaker
So then my husband and I, we moved to Salt Lake and I started working at a charter school where all the students were on probation. They had committed crimes and they had gone through the juvenile system and they couldn't go back to regular schools and they would be
Tears as Symbols of Love
00:43:26
Speaker
sent to us. And they all had, you know,
00:43:28
Speaker
a probation officer that would show up at the school to do drug tests, and it was like this school of all kinds of kids from different gangs and addictions and problems, and they each had, gosh, experienced so much in their life.
00:43:47
Speaker
And as it was a small charter school, they had one teacher per subject. And I was the English and German teacher. And we had a teacher for math and science, and one was for art and drama. And this art teacher was always trying to get the students to express themselves, because that's what artists do. You can't just do art without some form of expression.
00:44:16
Speaker
And it was just such a tough environment. And the people who were running the schools, they were just really tough people. And we would always, all of us, try to find ways of how do we connect to these kids? How can we really gain their trust? Because they had been so moved around from home to home. So many of them came from the foster care system, or many of them were in the foster care system.
00:44:45
Speaker
so how do you establish trust not that they are with us and really make a connection and it just was tough you know like discipline and classroom management in any school setting is hard but in that particular school it was just to the next level right and one of the teachers in the classroom in the school that was teaching the drama classes
00:45:10
Speaker
She and I, you know, one day we're talking and she was asking me questions about my life. And then she, you know, I, you know, naturally shared my story of losing my father. And as usual, you know, I'm telling her about my dad and I just like tears come down and she was like, Mona, that's it. This is the answer. You need to share your story with our students. We need to share it with the kids. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to cry in front of them.
00:45:41
Speaker
I need to be strong and this is not going to work. I know if I tell my story, I'm going to get emotional and that's the last thing I need for them to see an emotional teacher.
00:45:57
Speaker
I'm like in this setting it's not gonna work but she's just such a wonderful and sweet person and you know for about a week or so she kept encouraging me she's like you know I just think if you open up they will open up and it will just you know she's this lovely drama teacher and she's like it's gonna impact the whole school and she kept encouraging me and finally I gave into it
00:46:23
Speaker
And we have this big room of all these kids, again, who have gone through some serious difficulties, gosh, in their life and continue to experience them and come from difficult circumstances and have broken the law. And so I joined her class and I shared my story.
00:46:50
Speaker
And as usual, you know, I'm talking about my dad and just, you know, I can't control it. Just tears come down. Right. And and then when I finished the story, something happened that in my life, it hadn't happened before. I had shared my story with many people and 90 percent of the time when you hear a story like that,
00:47:14
Speaker
People feel bad for you, you know, they're like gosh, I'm so sorry that happened to you or you know There is always sympathy right and or some people you know get uncomfortable because you just shared something and you shed some tears and they don't know how to deal with it and when I shared the story with this group of students from such tough backgrounds and
00:47:38
Speaker
when it was over and clearly you know i was um emotional uh sharing the story and these tough tough kids you know they came to me one by one in their own way and they were just like gosh like mona
00:47:56
Speaker
we thought we had it bad this is like amazing and you're so strong and you're so brave and I can't believe you went through that and you turned out normal and you know in their own words you know and and they're like and you have a car and you're a teacher and I had like a beat-up Toyota Corolla and I was
00:48:19
Speaker
I was teaching at this school, you know, but to them, you know, I had accomplished something in life despite the experiences. You gave them hope. You gave them hope of what was possible, right?
00:48:31
Speaker
You think that's what it was? Like the perspective of them like, wow, somebody that's gone through such hardship could go through that and still have a beat up Toyota car at the end and be a professor. Wow, I have a chance to also be a teacher. I have a chance to also turning my life around and making this hardship into something new. Do you not think that that was something that they felt was a little bit of that hope?
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. But what was also what they did for me, I had never, up to that point in my life, I had never associated my experience with strength or with bravery. And it was always like, you know, oh, you per thing. I didn't look at myself. Yeah, most people that I had shared it with was a sense of pity. Yeah.
00:49:28
Speaker
Whereas like with these kids, they looked at it and they were like, wow, like her and you're you're strong and you're amazing. And then something very beautiful happened. And that was during lunch hours and during after school and between classes, because I had I became so vulnerable and I had shared my story with them.
00:49:53
Speaker
these kids one by one they came and they just totally opened up and shared their experiences with me and it was just this beautiful exchange and I cannot tell you how it impacted the dynamics of the school and they opened up even
00:50:13
Speaker
to each other and suddenly you saw kids who come from different gangs and the backgrounds they're suddenly getting along you know and they see each other's humanity and it just it was it was powerful to see that for the first time for me to say oh my gosh this experience was not just something that happened to me and you know I overcame it
00:50:37
Speaker
but it had a bigger impact by sharing it by sharing my story and opening up my heart and being vulnerable it allowed these kids to be vulnerable and it just like cemented that connection and it was
00:50:53
Speaker
To the point because we would always get new students, you know who would be bringing from the detention center They would be bring you know They would come to the school and the moment they would walk in so many of these kids would be so protective of me They would go and grab the kid and they're like you better not mess up in her classroom you better be respectful to her and it was just like
00:51:16
Speaker
really yeah it was just because you know we had that connection and this particular teacher who really opened the way um was so sweet she said you know what um i see the impact your story had on the students of this school could you share it
00:51:36
Speaker
At my children's school they go to a regular public school, you know in a middle-class neighborhood If I arrange it could you share it and I was like, oh my gosh, here we go again You know, I don't know I feel comfortable with these kids now and she kind of went ahead and arranged it and I had the opportunity to go to this big, you know high school and share my story and I
00:52:02
Speaker
After that, I had got so many of the students, you know, staying behind and asking questions and opening, you know Themselves up about what they had experienced and then something very unique happened. The principal of that school went and told other principals that you know, we just had this speaker and the kids responded so well to this and that just opened up this opportunity and I did since 2005 and
00:52:32
Speaker
I have been invited in just so many school assemblies with 400, 500, sometimes the hundreds and hundreds of students that come to these school assemblies to hear my story. And more I started sharing my story, more I started opening myself up. It became amazing because it had this healing power
00:53:01
Speaker
on me that every time I would tell the story and I would talk about my dad and how amazing he was and what he went through every time I would get less emotional and now I'm at a point where I love him and I miss him so much but I can share his story over and over and over again without shedding even one tear you know so it was the experience of
00:53:28
Speaker
continuing it's something that I do continuing to going and speaking at these school assemblies really helped the healing process to seeing you know wow here this experience happened to me and it has this impact and every school that I go to I at least have like you know
00:53:47
Speaker
so many students staying after to just talk to me. And oftentimes, principals are like, you know, it's okay if you miss part of your next class. It's okay, you know, if you miss next year. Yeah, because the importance of it. Yeah, because they come and they they all want to be heard. And it's usually the kids who stay behind are the ones who also have lost someone in their life.
00:54:14
Speaker
And I have so many kids that I've had. They're like, gosh, my father was in prison too. And my father was innocent. He hadn't committed any crimes in his life and was innocent because he was a Baha'i. He was in prison. And some of their family members who are in prison, they had committed crimes. But that doesn't matter because the experience of losing a brother or a father or a mother
00:54:44
Speaker
Who is incarcerated is the same, you know for the for the child who is going through that process It doesn't matter whether they are guilty or not Child still can't see that parent and and they're still living without that parent in their life So regardless of the reason that they're in prison that yeah, so they can relate to that and
00:55:06
Speaker
Absolutely. And so it just became this amazing opportunity where like I've had entire districts, you know, calling me and I would just go from school to school and share the story and staying behind and having these conversations and
00:55:23
Speaker
What I have found is that so many children and so many young people in general really yearn to talk to people who are older than them such as myself or others about their experiences with death because in our culture we tend to avoid talking about things that upset us
00:55:51
Speaker
and death is upsetting to a lot of people. So it's somewhat of a taboo culture, right? And a lot of these kids that they carry all of that pain and struggle in their hearts and they don't want to upset the mom or the dad or
00:56:13
Speaker
whoever is left behind by talking about it and we want to push things under the rug. And for a lot of what was interesting to me from going to these school assemblies, a lot of the kids that I have conversations with who are in junior high and high school, their biggest challenge was that when
00:56:34
Speaker
whether it's their father or mother or close family member, when they passed away, how it changed the dynamic of their family and their family structure, where they suddenly had to grow up and get a second job and help out with their siblings.
00:56:53
Speaker
all of those pressures that we don't tend to talk about when we talk about death. So it really has created an opportunity to, in a very honest and truthful way, having conversations about this issue with young people.
00:57:15
Speaker
Everything you said, everything you said is the reason that I am so passionate about talking about this subject and the reason I created this platform as a podcast is exactly because of what you said. Not only just the topic of death, but just in general grief and what you just said about all the dynamics that change
00:57:38
Speaker
in a family any time that somebody's not there, whether it is for divorce, or as you said, somebody in prison, or if you move to another country, another city, all these changes. Sorry, it's thunder in Texas. I'm like, if you hear, it's a thunder in the background.
00:57:58
Speaker
So it is so important to have these type of conversations, like you said, and to make it normal to be able to talk about it. Because change is part of life. Death is part of life. And if we don't talk about it and if we don't talk about our fears around it or anything regarding that, then we're suppressing all these emotions
00:58:27
Speaker
that could create worse effects in our life than if we just express it and just talk about it. So thank you. And for the fact that you were able to shift in that 2005 all because of this art teacher wanting you to share your story to get her students motivated and how that one little
00:58:49
Speaker
thing became this ripple effect of change in not only that community but all the other cities that you've lived there from because you've moved quite a bit even after Salt Lake City. So you've moved to other cities and created this ripple effect in all these communities. And that kind of shows the beauty again about how something that happened to you at such a young age that was so horrible.
00:59:17
Speaker
can bring all these beautiful gifts at the same time of gifts to these communities and to these young children and adults too, because you also talk in a university level as well sometimes. Do you give talks at university levels as well?
00:59:33
Speaker
Yeah, to rotary clubs, to a variety of settings. I remember a refugee friend.
00:59:49
Speaker
asked me she said you know you always she's like most refugees she's like I always see you talking about your experiences of you know losing your father and becoming a refugee and most refugees just want to forget that part of their life they just want to move on you know and
01:00:07
Speaker
And she was like, why do you keep doing this? Why do you want to relive it? As if reliving something, people want to save themselves from reliving that experience. And for me, this has, again, been so part of the healing process of sharing the story and learning from everyone else who stays behind. And one thing that I have found as a parent, we want our children to be resilient. We want them to be strong.
01:00:36
Speaker
And oftentimes we live in a culture where we do everything for our kids. It's just the way things are. We drive them to their games and they don't have to walk to anything. And we prepare their food. And it's like, how do you, in this culture of comfort, how do you raise resilient kids? And I have found so many of the principles have shared with me that
01:01:04
Speaker
you know, afterwards when they reflect with the students and the teachers of what was important about them to hear the story or having me come, they often say that the kids felt for the first time that you could go through really hard times and still survive.
01:01:23
Speaker
and still be okay. So I feel it's important for us to expose our children to people who have experienced hardships in their life, whatever that hardship is. Because then they can see examples of people who have gone through really difficult times and they have been able to overcome it. And if someone else can do it, we can do it too.
01:01:49
Speaker
And for my own kids, you know, obviously I come from like a high background, but I think it's, I love, I know it sounds strange, but I love talking with my children about life after death, you know, and
01:02:05
Speaker
And I feel to the best of my ability, I try to give them this, I don't want them to ever be scared or fearful of a family member passing away. And for them to look at, we often give this analogy of, in the Baha'i writings, it says that the world that we live in is like a cage, right? And the bird is our soul and that,
01:02:33
Speaker
the true life of the soul is in the next world when we pass and so to some extent we are in this beautiful golden cage and as beautiful as it is the bird is going to be much happier you know when it can fly
01:02:49
Speaker
Yeah it's free from all the challenges of this world and so as sad as we are that it's okay to miss people because we miss them and we miss their you know having their physical presence here but also there is that balance we miss them but also we are happy for them because they are relieved of the pain and the struggles
01:03:11
Speaker
that they had in this world and I often I know I shared this with you with my kids when they go to school or they have to go on a field trip or there is certain places I can't be with them, right? And sometimes I get emotional because as parents we want to protect our kids and we are like we want to be with them all the time and to protect them from bullies or from whatever challenges they might be experiencing
01:03:40
Speaker
and but there is in life there is situations where you can't be there and uh those are the moments where i have like like really sweet honest conversations with my dad who has passed away it's like listen i can't be there but i don't know what you're doing but i need you to be there with my kids drop everything yeah just drop everything and go with me with my kids right now exactly it's like you know the end um
01:04:07
Speaker
And you know and I just think it's important to Tell the kids that you know to talk about grief and it really make them feel comfortable that
01:04:18
Speaker
Everyone processes grief in a different way and it's okay, you know and And that I love in the Baha'i writings Abdul Baha said that tears are the pearls of the heart, you know I had never heard that quote. I shared the one of the cage in my first Episode ever of the that I created but I had never can you say that again? I
01:04:44
Speaker
Abdu'l-Baha says tears are the pearls of the heart.
01:04:49
Speaker
And for the longest time, I would always be mad at myself. Oh, gosh, why can't I not share the story of my dad without crying? And I remember this very sweet Baha'i in Salt Lake City. She said, you know, Mona, it's OK to cry because they're the pearls of the heart. They kind of tell the story that sometimes our words fail us to share those stories. But our tears are there too.
01:05:20
Speaker
To express. To express that, yeah. To express the love that we feel for our loved ones. Wow, Mona, I've just taken so many, so many pieces of what you've said, and especially being a mom of all these little nuggets of inspiration, of guidance, of how to be able to have these conversations with my kids, and even though I have them often,
01:05:46
Speaker
just even the fact of actually asking my love. I had never done that. I've never asked my mom or my sister to go and be with them during certain times. And I'm going to take that one. I'm going to make sure to use that one whenever I can't be present for them either. But I appreciate it so much. And the amount of
01:06:10
Speaker
gifts you've been able to give back all because you were able to also be vulnerable with your story in your journey and And that that is just a life lesson for all of us to be able to take on that our stories are really just Something that somebody else can learn from as well. So thank you again for sharing and I Can't wait to re-listen to this. It's amazing. Thank you, Mona
01:06:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you for having me Kendra and for doing this podcast because I feel more we talk about these issues and about death in general, it will open others, people's heart and help, you know, heal their pain in the process.
01:06:52
Speaker
absolutely that is exactly why i created it if any and again you don't have to believe everything we've said in terms of your own religious backgrounds but if any little bits of this just bring some kind of solace to your own heart and your own journey and your own grief process
01:07:08
Speaker
Take it. That's what I say. It's like if you don't have the tools, just borrow somebody else's tools that have helped them go through these hardships and moments in their life and just borrow them until you have some that work for you. So thank you again, Mona.
01:07:29
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:07:58
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.