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The Wes-ard of Green Bay
98 Plays2 years ago
G'day! We have an exciting episode for you this week! We have Senior Writer for the Green Bay Packers Wes Hodkiewicz! We get Wes' opinion on the current roster, we touch on the Rodgers departure and Love taking over, this years rookie class and we also get Wes to share with us his Packers Mount Rushmore!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:12
Speaker
so
00:00:35
Speaker
G'day, everyone. Welcome to the Outback Packers podcast, the podcast where two mates from all the way across the world have a yarn talking Packers football and the green and gold. I'm Nick Gregory. As always, joined by my lovely co-host, Iowa Joe. Today, welcoming on special guest, senior writer for the Packers and the co-host of Packers Unscripted, Wes Hotkowiks.
00:00:54
Speaker
Wes, how are you? It's amazing to have you on. Both Joe and myself are extremely excited to finally talk to you and get to hear your thoughts on the team. But how are you doing? I'm doing great, guys. I appreciate you having me on. I always get a kick out of these type of podcasts in particular when you got, you know, two guys randomly in the United States, another guy out in Australia and the power of technology pulling us all together here. It's fantastic.
00:01:20
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, I have to say that on my vacation, I spent a lot of time stalking Wes just so I could get him to come on the podcast. So if he asks you where the beach is or where the check is, just kind of go along with it, OK? Wait, hold on a second. So I just
Packers Team Energy and Strategy
00:01:36
Speaker
thought that was just a happenstance running that we had in the atrium. And now you're mentioning that you're stalking it. Now it was good. It was cool. Actually, it really was in a way.
00:01:47
Speaker
which is weird because I hang around a lot of Wes. Hold up, one second. You got me there, Joe. I pulled my own headset out. I got so excited. My apologies. He kind of, he tried to run away already. But see, I hang out with a lot of Weses. I was actually waiting in the atrium for my good, my little brother, my good friend, Wes Hoida. Is that really his last name? Yeah, yeah. Wes Hoida. I'm Wes Hodquitz and that's Wes Hoida.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, I say it's amazing So I was actually waiting there for him to get off work so we could go hang out and You just I was like, I think that's Wes hot quiz
00:02:30
Speaker
I think that's Wes. And I think we've met one other time. And this was, I think early on when you started with the Packers, because I always go up to training camp. Oh, nice. So I think there's one other time, but I'm getting to the point where I don't even remember it anymore. Hopefully I wasn't a douchebag.
00:02:51
Speaker
No, you're not a damaski. So let's go. We love you, Rob. Yeah, yeah, I do. Rob's great. But yeah, it just so happened that I caught you right at the right time. So yeah, no doubt. Yeah. So here we are. That's my story and I'm going to stick to it for now. Ignore all those other messages, will you?
00:03:19
Speaker
So Wes, as someone who is obviously much closer to the team than I am and Joe as well, I just wanted to ask you kind of what's like the feeling around this team. Obviously you've been able to talk to the players and it could be one, like what's the kind of sentiment and you know, what's the energy you're getting from this team?
00:03:37
Speaker
It's a really positive energy, Nick. I feel like, you know, it's a really free flowing loose group now. Now, certainly it is the off season program. You know, there is no game that they're preparing for on Sunday, but in those nine weeks and the five practice, we're five practices we were able to watch. I think my biggest takeaway is just how much these young guys are enjoying the process. And this is a very young football team. I mean, I was running some numbers for the Q and a that we do on our website, our insider inbox column.
00:04:07
Speaker
you know, 43 of these players have been drafted to Green Bay on the 90 man off season roster. I mean, I think there was another 15 or so that have signed as college free agents with this team over the last two years. You look at the receiver position, I think there's like maybe, what is it?
00:04:24
Speaker
11 combined starts in the NFL among them. I mean, it is a young NFL team, but at the same time, I think with the way things have gone and the way I think some people maybe view the Packers in the post Aaron Rodgers era, I think there also is this feeling that there isn't a lot to lose. And if anything that I learned over these last nine weeks, the biggest thing is that this team believes in Jordan Love and
00:04:51
Speaker
I know there's been a lot out there about, okay, is he the guy? Is any of the guys he made splash plays? Jordan Love has all the tools. And I think when you talk to guys like Aaron Jones and Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs, the guys that are going to be the heart and soul of this football team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball this year, I think there's a lot of belief in this young man.
00:05:11
Speaker
It has nothing to do with Aaron Rodgers. The Aaron Rodgers era was great in Green Bay. It was a fantastic ride, a successful championship producing ride. But as we've always seen, guys, I mean, there comes a time where you make that move to the next guy. And I think when you look at Jordan Love getting three years to get acclimated to the NFL to catch up and understand what's going to be expected of him with this offense, I think everybody else is ready to jump on the train and see where it takes them.
00:05:39
Speaker
So and you know, I know you got to be careful with what you say and all that stuff because you don't, you know, we don't want to get you in trouble or anything. But do you think there is kind of a shift in philosophy now that Rogers is gone and they're going with the guy that's been groomed into this system? Or do you think it's still about the same? And, you know, they're just going to a younger guy who can, you know, relatively do similar stuff.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm with you, Joe, on that. And you are right. I mean, when you go from a guy that has been in the league as long as Aaron Rodgers was, right, the longest tenured player in Packers history from 2005 to 2022, and then you go to a guy that has started, what, a game and a half in the National Football League. I mean, that is going to be enough.
00:06:28
Speaker
It's gonna be an abrupt shift, right? So I think when you look at the scheme of Matt Lafleur's offense and him and Rogers
Special Teams and Rookie Impact
00:06:36
Speaker
made such a great partnership together, right? I mean, two MVPs, NFC championship appearances. But at the end of the day, the scheme, if you go back to the principle of it with Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVeigh,
00:06:48
Speaker
This offense has never been predicated on having a MVP quarterback carry all the water for everybody. No, it's on making life easier for the quarterback and using the full entree of options with your offense. And I feel like Jordan Love is going to get
00:07:05
Speaker
you know, free reign. I feel like he's going to have every opportunity to make this thing his own, but I do believe there's going to be things that Matt LaFleur and these offensive coaches can do to make his life easier, whether it's the pre-snap motions, whether it's the play action game, whether it's the resources they've invested in the middle of the field, right? With, you know, a guy like Luke Musgrave and, and Jaden Reed, these guys are, are playmakers that could potentially really help the Packers.
00:07:30
Speaker
you know, kind of infiltrate that area of the field, which has been a grind at times. So I feel like there's going to be certain aspects of the offense that probably will look different because you're switching to a 24 year old quarterback that that's first time starter. But at the same time, the system is the system. And I do feel like there's going to be the staples that we've seen the last three years with Matt LaFleur continued on now as we begin the Jordan love era.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I know I've run into the bad habit of saying, well, now we'll actually get to see what LeFlore's offense can do because, you know, really at the end of the day, we know Rogers was changing a lot at the line. So, you know, we don't, but then again, LeFlore gave him the go to, you know, if you see something different, you know, I'm going to rely on you on that. So I think that's why I've always said, when people ask me how this year's going to do is I don't know, but I'm excited because it's something completely different than
00:08:24
Speaker
Uh, what we're used to, but another kind of side question on that. Do you also think that had something to do with the draft this year? Because it seems like the, they never really put forth too much in bringing young tight ends into the system. They were always trying to bring in those older guys that Rogers was more to mesh with, but now they went out and drafted the two, you know,
00:08:51
Speaker
guys who look athletic as hell and should be able to produce well. Do you think that went into the draft this year?
00:09:00
Speaker
Well, I do to some extent, Joe, because I also look at this as we've known for several years here, the Packers are going to have to make a move at tight end. Did I expect it to be them doubling down in the same day of the draft? Not necessarily. I mean, I believe that one of the stats I pulled out was this is only like the second time in franchise history. Packers have actually drafted two tight ends in the same year. It's just not the way they've typically done business, whether it's Ron Wolf, Ted Thompson, or Brian Gudekunst as the GM.
00:09:30
Speaker
But at the same time, you know Robert Tungen's gone now Mercedes Lewis is still a free agent as much as I would love to see him back in Green Bay That is what it is And if you're going to go in a new direction, you need to be able to invest those resources. Yeah
00:09:48
Speaker
thing of it is, is that they found two really good prospects. I think Musgrave is a guy that if he's healthy last year, he's probably a guy that sneaks even closer to the first round, maybe into the first round. When you look at a 10-yard split that he had, 6'5", 253 pounds, people don't move that explosively at that level. And then in Tucker Craft, I mean, this guy's got everything in front of him. I mean, his redshirt sophomore year was as impressive as you're going to find, and certainly some injuries slowed him last year.
00:10:16
Speaker
I think this was the right time to make this move because it's going to take time, Joe. You're not just going to be able to throw in tight ends and just expect that, Hey, you got Travis Kelsey. It's going to be a process, but you need to be able to get those prospects in the pipeline. If you're truly going to be able to develop them and find that next phase of your offense. Well, I've got one more question and then I'll let Nick get into it.
00:10:40
Speaker
now to special teams, and we know that, you know, bringing in Rich Bisaccio, once he got started
Defensive Line and Run Defense
00:10:48
Speaker
and, you know, everything started to gel, it really turned around our special teams. Well, now we've had almost like a complete overhaul when it comes to it.
00:10:58
Speaker
Are they really trusting in Anders or is there like a contingency, you know, Mason's still out there. Could it come, you know, towards the end of training camp where, you know, maybe Anders needs a little bit more time. Let's bring Mason back in and because I know Brian Gudakun said that
00:11:17
Speaker
You know, not everything, you know, Mason didn't go into year last year completely healthy. So he thought that he still had some juice to go. It just, he wasn't completely healthy until towards the end. So what are you seeing on that end?
00:11:31
Speaker
Well, the one thing I, Mason probably doesn't want me to say this, but the one thing I learned from last year is that Mason Crosby probably doesn't need a training camp. I mean, the guy wasn't actually cleared from the PUP list until it was time for the regular season. And then was able to continue on his, his consecutive games played streak after a little bit of concern and nervousness there.
00:11:50
Speaker
Here's the thing i didn't i said this time and time again i didn't want to see mason cross be seventeen years into his nfl career competing against a rookie six round pick if you're going to drafter kicker. Allow that young man the opportunity the bandwidth to be able to turn that job.
00:12:09
Speaker
And if something happens down the road, maybe that's where you look at a Crosby or if Mason's gone, you have Robbie gold still out there. You still, you see it every year, not just the position green Bay's in, but all the time there's kickers that, you know, don't work out and then you go and find a veteran. You try to get through the season.
00:12:24
Speaker
That being said, Rich Pisacci has really sold on Anders Carlsen. And this is a guy that he worked with with his older brother Daniel. He's known Anders since he was a young man at Auburn. And watching this guy kick Joe, we didn't get to see him until minicamp during the practices, but he has a booming leg.
00:12:45
Speaker
And the last couple of years, the stats are what they are, but you got to think about what he was dealing with. Last year, he's kicking with a brace on his plant leg. That's not the natural thing for a kicker to have to do after he tore his ACL the previous year. I feel like they're going to roll with the punches with this young man and understand there's going to be good days. There's going to be bad days. You have to get through it.
00:13:07
Speaker
The biggest challenge for Carlson, I don't think is going to be even adjusting to the NFL. The guys kicked in front of a hundred thousand people on a weekly basis. It's going to be okay. If you get into November and December, how do you make that adjustment when you're kicking in those elements? Cause I'm telling you Green Bay, Wisconsin, Chicago, Illinois, it is not the same as kicking everywhere else in the NFL. It is a different beast. Mason mastered it. Did it that way for 15 years.
00:13:32
Speaker
But that's going to be the biggest hurdles for honors to overcome. The track record's great, guys, with kickers that Packers have drafted with the exception of Brett Conway. They've gotten some really, really strong kickers over the last 30 years to the draft. You hope that Carlson could be the next one.
00:13:47
Speaker
You just had to bring up Conway, man. That just put a whole shiver down my spine. I can't say everybody's been a hit. There was Brett Conway. But other than that, I mean, finding Mason Crosby in the sixth round in 2007 and then being able to just have that same kicker for 325 consecutive games, including playoffs, that ain't natural. That ain't the way it works out. But Mason was durable enough and smart enough and really steady enough to be that guy and give the Packers that luxury for a decade and a half.
00:14:16
Speaker
And I've been kind of happy seeing that he's still, or at least his family is still involving themselves in Green Bay for now. So, but, um, so just kind of, is it, you're saying it's Anders. I don't want to get my, yes.
00:14:41
Speaker
No. I was talking to Colby Wood in the Packers fourth round pick, who actually was locker mates with Carlson at Auburn too. And he just calls him Durs. He doesn't even mess around with the front of it. He just calls him Durs. That's his whole time, his name. But yeah, seems like a really nice kid. 6'5", 219 pounds. I mean, he is a long levered kid.
00:15:03
Speaker
And now I'm going to get an opportunity so he can kick at this level. Yeah, I got to stand up. I got to stand next to him on one of my days up there. And I even felt short to him. So I'm still at one second, too. I'm pretty sure.
00:15:18
Speaker
Sweet. Well, so we've talked about obviously, obviously you mentioned, uh, must grab multiple times. We just finished talking about Anders, Colby wooden. There's so many rookies who are slotted to be starting or second string backup. So, you know, they're going to be playing, right? And that's the exciting thing about this team. Who do you think is someone who might surprise people, someone who is maybe a little bit under the radar or perhaps might be doing more than we are predicting or the consensus is expecting?
00:15:46
Speaker
Yeah, Carl Brooks is probably the guy that's the top on my list. And again, the Packers have had such a strong track record with these sort of unique body types at the defensive line position over the years. I think back to Mike Daniels coming out of Iowa, a guy that was a six foot one, 220 pound running back, two star recruit, doesn't have very many offers, goes to Iowa, gets a little bit more hype behind him, but then finally gets healthy in the NFL.
00:16:13
Speaker
and is a Pro Bowl type defensive tackle. I'm not saying Carl Brooks is going to do that right now, but I think when you look at what he accomplished at Bowling Green, there was this line that Elliott Wolf, I believe it was, you always talk about if you're, if you're drafting a guy in the later third, the third day of the draft, you're looking for attributes. You're looking for something that jumps off the page.
00:16:34
Speaker
and Karl Brooks stats as mostly an edge type at Bowling Green are incredible. Now, some people will say, well, that's the Mac. But I think if you look at how much he dominated the Mac, that gives this young guy a chance in addition
Player Growth and Packers Legacy
00:16:48
Speaker
to the fact that now the Packers are going to play on board a natural three technique defensive tackle in the NFL. And guys, I'm telling you, I mean, if there's one position you mentioned there's going to be young guys that play all over the place this year offensively, defensively and special teams.
00:17:02
Speaker
Packers need guys to step up on the defensive line. 1,400 defensive snaps were vacated this offseason with Dean Lowry going to Minnesota and Jaren Reed going to Seattle. The Packers need guys to fill those. A lot of that's going to fall on Devontae Wyatt. A lot of it is going to fall over on TJ Slayton. But there was one practice in OTAs where Wyatt didn't go. So Colby Woodin was the next guy up. Karl Brooks is the next guy up. Jonathan Ford, the seventh-round pick last year out of Miami is the next guy up.
00:17:32
Speaker
The Packers are that close from playing guys that have never played in the national football league before, and they need those guys to respond. So I look at a guy like Brooks as a rotational interior defensive lineman who right away off the back could potentially contribute for this defense. If he proves that he can get, he's worried of those snaps during training camp. Do you think that's a position that they could dive into the free agency pool to bring in a bet?
00:17:56
Speaker
They could Joe, but at the same time, I mean, it's been one of those spots too, where I just feel like I wrote about this early in the off season. The Packers want to improve their run defense, right? There's things that they need to shore up. I like the idea of just shuffling the deck.
00:18:13
Speaker
going with some prospects that you like and hoping that, you know, that works out. If it doesn't, you know, a couple of years ago, they went and signed snacks, Harold Harrison, you know, they've been able to go and, you know, find occasionally some guys that can come in. I'm trying to think quit and dial came in one year. I mean,
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah. The guy from Cleveland. Oh, what is his name? It's going to bother me. I'm going to think about this after the show. Oh, yeah. And I know exactly who you're talking about. I can't think of him either. Two years ago that came in during COVID, finished the year with a veteran. Sorry, boys. I'm usually better at that. But
00:18:46
Speaker
They have gone, they have gone and found the veteran guys that can help you finish out a season. So if they need to go that direction, that direction's always there. I think defensive lineman can often be found on a little bit more of the cheaper side of things, but they need to find new stalwarts on the defensive line. The only way you're going to do it is if you give these young guys a chance, it's going to start with slate and Wyatt. I'm very curious to see who finishes up the rotation after that. It's on the tip of my tongue, Billy.
00:19:15
Speaker
Billy win. Billy win. Thank you. See, I covered football. He was the guy who hadn't played for a couple of years, right? And he came back. He'd been beat up. Yeah. And then he ended up signing their practice squad at the end of 20. I believe it was COVID.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And he was a, he was a big prospect coming out of college when he was drafted. Yep. For sure. Had some experience with Mike Patton, but, but that's the thing, like you can go and find, you know, Harrison two years ago coming in and finishing the season with him. There are those types of guys sometimes available, but at the end of the day, you have Kenny Clark there.
00:19:53
Speaker
a guy that is a two-time pro bowler now that the Packers are trying to find more ways to sort of take some of the burden off his shoulders. I'm really excited to see what Wyatt Slayton and the rest of those young guys can do, trying to be the ones that step up into those spots that Lowry and Reid vacated. I'm trying to do this diplomatic, so like I said, we don't get you in trouble for anything.
00:20:17
Speaker
Was there any real reason given for why Devontae Wyatt really didn't see snaps last year? Well, I think really it comes down to just finding an opportunity for him. I mean, the Packers do play more base defense now with, with Joe Barry because, you know, they have that, I forget what they call it the, um,
00:20:37
Speaker
penny look where it's the three defensive lineman, two edges and one inside backer. They do a lot of that now. And then you got the nickel defensive coverage behind it. So they do work in a lot of defensive lineman, but fact of the matter is guys, as long as I've been covering this team, we've talked every year about lessening snaps on Kenny Clark.
00:20:54
Speaker
dollars to donuts, I promise you, by the end of the season, if he's healthy, Danny Clark's gonna end up playing 80% of the defensive snaps. It's just the way it always works out, right? Dean Lowry always got a full, a full helping of snaps. And then obviously you brought in Jaron Reed. That's probably where a lot of those snaps potentially for why it could have gone.
00:21:12
Speaker
That being said, he ended up playing a position that until the last month of the season, stayed healthy for the Packers all year long. All these other spots, Packers are having to go get Justin Hollands. They're having to try to find guys to fill in because of injuries. Defensive line, the Packers were pretty healthy from beginning to end.
00:21:28
Speaker
Once Dean went down with that calf injury, that's where Wyatt got his opportunities. I thought those last two games look really good. It's going to be about consistency for him, right? I think he has every athletic attribute you want in defensive linemen. It's showing that he can apply it. He can get the pad level down. He can beat gap sound. He can know his assignments. That's where it's going to be for Wyatt.
00:21:48
Speaker
And he had a really interesting conversation. I've enjoyed talking with him, you know, the little bit that we've had an opportunity to talk with him so far during his
Conclusion and Reflections
00:21:55
Speaker
pro career. He's had some good talks with Kenny Clark, understanding what it means to be a defensive lineman in the NFL and how you have to transition into becoming a big, more stable and consistent contributor for the defense. Packers are counting on that this year. I feel like if he stays healthy.
00:22:11
Speaker
The opportunities are going to be endless for this young guy and hopefully he's able to capture them because I do believe there is a lot of talent there. It's just one of those situations kind of like Rashawn Gary, you know, four years ago with Sederia Smith and Preston Smith. I just don't think there were a ton of opportunities for him to go out and really be in every down type D lineman.
00:22:29
Speaker
Well, I was just curious because I mean, as everybody knows the office or not the offense, the defense was really kind of getting gouged with the run. And it seemed like there needed to be, you know, maybe a change up here, you know, try a different, and it just seemed like every opportunity, you know, why it was kind of getting passed over. So I didn't know if there was like a, you know, maybe there was, he wasn't putting the work in like he should have been or,
00:22:57
Speaker
No, I don't think it was that. Cause I mean, again, the guy did everything right in terms of what we saw, you know, obviously what happens behind closed doors, we could never be too sure about, but I thought he had the right mindset. He had the right mentality. He didn't hang his head at all. He understood that. Okay. Early on in the season, my role is going to be to play 10, 12 snaps a game. And then when the opportunity came late in the year, you saw the strip sack, you saw some of the tackles for loss, and I thought he started to show a little bit more of himself.
00:23:20
Speaker
I think the big thing for the Packers is even when some of those issues were happening, Joe, they, they wanted to go with their veterans. They wanted to go with the guys that, that they were building the defense around. And, and that was Reed. That was lower. And that was Kenny along with the pieces that circulated around them for that run defense. So, uh, the, the big marker for, for why it is going to be this training camp. It's going to probably be some of the preseason games. It's going to be showing that he did take that jump at the end of last season can carry over some of that momentum now into 2023.
00:23:50
Speaker
I've got two other guys I want to know your opinion on, and then Nick can go on to what he wants to talk to. I think you said you were going to give it to Nick a couple minutes ago, and then you were like, I'm going to take this right back again. That's one question. It's the same thing that happened with The Dayline last year. It's a seniority.
00:24:10
Speaker
I got you. I got you. But well, I always let Nick lead. And then I seem to always, you know, go after that. So I like it. If you caught last week's episode, it was really weird because Nick wasn't there. So I had to lead and it just awkward.
00:24:29
Speaker
But anyway, obviously I got to ask, I'm an Iowa guy. I've, you know, matter of fact, I was just in Iowa city today for a doctor's appointment. So I got to know, everybody seems to be in love with this guy right now, but you know, they're always going to have questions. I keep hearing the same thing. You know, Oh, well, you know, he never started in college and such and such, but what they fail to remember is Kirk Farance plays the seniority thing. If you've been here longer, you're going to, you know, if you're a upperclassman, you're going to start.
00:25:00
Speaker
Do you think with Roshan being down, you know Preston getting a little bit older JJ or Kingsley or whatever he's going by now Is he slated to you know, just kind of sit back and learn or do you think he's gonna be thrown out there to start because of what they've got at the position and
00:25:25
Speaker
The start word is difficult because I don't know exactly how that's going to play out. We saw it mostly with Justin Hollins and also within Ibarre being the one that we're operating out opposite of Preston Smith during the off-season program. But I'll tell you what, Joe, Lucas Van Ness is going to play. And he's going to be a guy that I think is going to get more opportunities than Rashawn did in 2019.
00:25:49
Speaker
I, I, this is my, what is it? My 12th or 13th training camp. Now speaking just from a physical perspective, this kid is one of the most incredibly built professional football players I've covered. When they say the Hercules moniker, sometimes, you know, people have these monikers and they come in and you're like, okay, all right. You know, it's like, no, man, Lucas van S's Hercules.
00:26:15
Speaker
the arm length, when I saw his first bio, like when the Packers drafted him, we got like the NFL draft report. And I saw it, you know, six foot five, 272 pounds, 81 inch wing span. And the guy's 21 years old. I'm like.
00:26:31
Speaker
this guy's a freak and and he plays to that way. Now, we didn't see him in pads, right? We gotta see these guys in pads. We gotta, you know, get it to be football again but in terms of being able to check all the boxes in terms of what he projects as, if you would have told me, Joe and you're like, okay, Wes, here's
00:26:48
Speaker
The 13 draft picks, here's the eight or so undrafted free agents they signed. Tell me which one of these kids was the 13th overall pick without knowing anything else. It's Lucas Van Ness. And I feel like we'll see where things are at with Rashawn. I have given up on trying to figure out, hey, when is a guy going to come back from an ACL? When is he going to be available? When he's going to be off PUP? I don't know.
00:27:13
Speaker
But I do know that Lucas Van Ness is going to be a part of this thing this season because of just how many ways they can utilize them. You go back to how they did it at Iowa. He played interior defensive line his first, you know, redshirt freshman year. And then he's an edge rusher for most of his, his redshirt sophomore year. And as you mentioned the Kurt Farrens thing.
00:27:32
Speaker
It was interesting talking to Kelvin Bell, the Iowa's defensive line coach about this because you guys got to understand and you know, the spread of anyone, but people that are Packer fans, you'd understand Iowa, they don't just play the seniority game because it, it just works out really well on a, you know, a resume.
00:27:47
Speaker
They do it because that's the way they have to do it. They have to convince kids to come to Iowa, develop and get their opportunity. He was behind what? Two redshirt seniors. And they wanted to give those young men that opportunity after investing everything they did in Iowa's football program.
00:28:04
Speaker
he didn't bat an eye at that. And I think this guy now with proving what he did at Iowa and how much of a team player he was for the Hawkeyes, I think he's going to come in the door and he's going to be willing to do whatever the Packers ask him to, especially off the bat when you're not really sure when you're going to have Rashawn Gary back on the field.
00:28:20
Speaker
And then the other guy I'd like to get your opinion on, you kind of mentioned him a little bit earlier, but he's kind of my sleeper pick. Obviously, you know, I love the Van Ness pick. I'm not going to... That's my guy. He's the first jersey I've bought in like five years. So, you know, that's my guy. I got to support it.
00:28:40
Speaker
But my sleeper this year, because after he was drafted, I heard a lot of great things. And when I went and watched some of his film and that, I think he could have went higher. But obviously, I don't know the reasons why he didn't. But that's Carrington Valentine out of Kentucky.
00:28:58
Speaker
You know, I've heard that he could be somebody who could step in day one if need be. But obviously that's not a need the Packers have right now. But I got somebody who could slot in there. So but what are you hearing or seeing out of him? Obviously, you know, because it's only OTAs. But no, it's I love Carrington Valentine. I see everything that Mel Kuyper saw in him. I see everything that the Packers liked in him.
00:29:27
Speaker
This guy is arguably, I think, the youngest guy on the roster. And whatever his reasons were for leaving a year early, those are his reasons. And when you only have a couple picks or one pick, whatever it was, teams aren't going to maybe give you the love that other guys would get if they had six, seven interceptions their last year at college. But what I like about Valentine is, OK, so Jair Alexander and Rasul Douglas were not at the OTAs.
00:29:53
Speaker
What did that mean? That meant that Valentine, Corey Ballantine, obviously, Keshaw Nixon in the slot, Ke'Andre Thomas, all these corners were working against the Packers top receivers. Valentine didn't care. He was competitively defending against Romeo Dobbs, got a pass deflection against him. And I believe it was one of the move the ball periods. He is a confident young man.
00:30:22
Speaker
And remember how I was saying, you know, you look for attributes with young guys in addition to liking his frame and how he projects as a cornerback. It is the fact that this is a guy that did leave school early, who I don't know how much he plays this year, but in a way, it's almost like you look at it as this is sort of like his senior year of college, right? So.
00:30:42
Speaker
I just, there's so much to like about him. And as much as you're right, the Packers don't need any starting corner backs right now. You eventually hope that you get Eric Stokes back, but you know, there were some real questions there for the Packers. If for Sewell Douglas doesn't just pop back in at perimeter corner last year after Stokes goes down, they got lucky that there were no other injuries, but there could have been.
00:31:02
Speaker
some question marks there if any more guys went down. I just think Valentine is a guy at a wide open court. You have those three starting cornerbacks and hopefully here you're going to get Stokes back. But there's still an opportunity there at five or six. And I think Valentine is going to be put himself right in that conversation once we get into the preseason and training camp because I bet he plays a lot.
00:31:23
Speaker
All right, Nick, you can have it now. Thank you, Joe. The last question I just want to ask you before we get to the mountain Rushmore section of the show, you know, we've talked all about the rookies today and, you know, the guys who are getting in their first NFL action. Something I always want to ask you about is who do you think is looking to make a big second year jump?
00:31:47
Speaker
Obviously you have Christian Watson, who's kind of my guy, and a few key contributors who are going to be stepping up, like Romeo Dobbs even. Who is someone who you think is going to take even a leadership role or a larger presence on this team?
00:32:02
Speaker
Well, I mean, the answer probably is Wyatt. When you look at what he did his first year to what the Packers are going to be asking him the second year. But I do want to talk about Watson in particular, because what I saw from him this spring was a very confident, but yet humble. He wasn't being cocky, but just the guy that I think realized in those last eight weeks of last season that I can do this and I can do this at a high level. And I feel like he carried that swagger with him into the offseason program.
00:32:30
Speaker
guys, I remember our last availability, you know, the locker room clean out day Watson already had his goal put down for this off season. He wanted to put himself in a better physical position and not have to deal with the soft tissue stuff, or at least give himself a better chance at avoiding some of those type of injuries. And he came back in incredible physical condition. And when you have a guy that's six foot five, 208 pounds runs a four, three, six has the vertical that he does.
00:32:57
Speaker
He is just an athletic marvel in terms of what is in his body. And you add in the work ethic to that. I just feel like the sky's the limit for him. And he has no problem standing in front of a camera and just being a leader, even though he's still really young at the position. I think him and Romeo Dobbs together
00:33:19
Speaker
they, they forged a friendship, they forged a partnership. And in a lot of ways it does. It reminds me of what you saw with Greg Jennings and James Jones and Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb and all these other, you want to have those guys that you can bounce off of each other and also have those complimentary skillsets. Right. So I just, when you see Watson do what he did those last eight weeks, you just, so many things have to work out and they have to all, you know,
00:33:44
Speaker
You have to avoid injuries you have to avoid you know quarterback changes you gotta hope that everybody stays healthy around you but the way he finished last year really just makes me very curious about what a 17 game season could look like for that young man because I thought Everything about him in that month of November straight, you know really scream superstar
00:34:07
Speaker
That's the next boy. He's the first Jersey that I bought. It's a smart Jersey. Yeah. And it's number nine. It's cool. But I mean, like I just.
00:34:21
Speaker
There are certain guys that you think about. OK, so the Packers didn't necessarily draft him with the pick that they got from Devonta Adams, but everybody knew the game last year, right? Yeah, you signed Sammy Watkins. Yes, you have Alan coming back. But the guy that they traded two first round picks for the guy that they moved up to take a 34 was Christian Watson. And whether he was a first round pick or not, I'm sure they'll make up something about that someday. But the fact of the matter was is that he was seen as the big prospect for this offense.
00:34:51
Speaker
And I felt like after some initial turbulence there, it allowed him to kind of find his footing there in the second half. And it was a story I wrote on our website this past week. If there was anything that he could take away from that season, it's managing disappointment, adversity and setback in its managing success and triumph. And I felt like whether he was rising or falling or somewhere in between Watson proved that he can be a pro and he's a guy that is not going to just kind of wilt under expectations. He's going to thrive and look for his next opportunity.
00:35:23
Speaker
Love to hear it. Love to hear it. Awesome. Yeah, that's so great to hear. Your perspective of being so close to these guys and being able to talk to them and the story about the locker room clean day, that's so amazing to hear. The last thing I want to do here with you, before we finish up,
00:35:43
Speaker
Joe's kind of been wondering about your Green Bay Mount Rushmore. Obviously, I've never been. I imagine you guys have a much better idea what that's about. But for what I know, it's kind of, you know, the foremost important influential players, team figures of all time for the Green Bay Packers. Who belongs on your Mount Rushmore?
00:36:04
Speaker
It was a tough question. And it's one of those things where it's like, I wish I had two Mount Rushmores. I wish you had one that was just personnel and you just had players. But I'm not going to cop out of that. I'm going to take the four. But to me, it goes with Curly Lambo.
00:36:18
Speaker
For better for worse, I know there were good and bad with Curly Lambo, but the fact of the matter is the shirt I'm wearing, the house that I live in, the job that I have, none of that's not possible, if not for Curly Lambo. And in addition to being a Hall of Famer, a guy that helped build the foundations of this league, he also was the one that had the foresight to keep this organization going. The ways that they had to do it, whatever it was, stock sales, burning buildings, everything, right? I mean, Curly Lambo was the guy that set that foundation.
00:36:48
Speaker
I love to, you put me in a tight spot because I wanted to put both Vince Lombardi and Bob Harlan on that Mount Rushmore, but I can't do it because then now suddenly I have one actual player left. So, but I am going to still do Lombardi just because he was the guy that I think when you look at, when I think of the agreement Packers, 105 years or whatever it's been now of hit franchise history.
00:37:12
Speaker
It's about what people allowed this place to keep going, what people allowed this place to thrive. And Lombardi is the one that brought the respect factor back. And if you don't get Phil and Lombardi there at the end of the fifties, is there a Green Bay Packers in 1970? Is there a Green Bay Packers in 1980? Lombardi is the one that in addition to, you know,
00:37:31
Speaker
You know, the personnel decisions that were made, the players that were drafted, the foundation that was put in place, Lombardi put all those pieces to work. From there, it gets really tricky.
00:37:44
Speaker
I'm going to go, well, first and foremost, I put Aaron Rodgers on that list because he represents to me the current generation, the Super Bowl 45 team, the team that has been a perennial winner throughout his tenure as the quarterback, a four-time MVP, a guy that has accomplished all these different things. He is the face of the 21st century of the Green Bay Packers, and I feel like you have to give him that respect.
00:38:10
Speaker
Where it gets difficult for me is figuring out who represents most that 1996 era. Brett Favre is there, obviously, but I want to give some credit to Reggie White and I think that's why I'm picking him as my fourth guy. Because as somebody said in our insider inbox column that really, it really resonated with me. Reggie White represented hope. After 29 years of ineptitude,
00:38:35
Speaker
Yes, Brett Farrar was there. Yes, Ron Wolf was there. Yes, the foundation was being built, Mike Holmgren. But Reggie White is the guy at the dawn of the free agent era that said, you know what? I'm a future Hall of Famer already. I'm going to go to Green Bay. And that decision, I think, was the confident boost that they needed. So you can agree with it. You can disagree with it. But I guess if you ask me and you put me on the spot with those questions, I'm going Lambo, going Lombardi, I'm going White, and I'm going Aaron Rodgers.
00:39:10
Speaker
But for me, Joe, before you do, though, for me, it's all about understanding that there isn't a billion dollar owner behind this thing, right? Right. The Green Bay Packers at every interval over the last hundred years have needed to win. You don't have to win every year, but you need to be able to have that type of success to keep fans coming out, to keep the stadium upgraded, to be able to do all that. And when I look at those four and you can take any different qualification you want to create a Mount Rushmore and you won't be wrong.
00:39:30
Speaker
Man, I don't know if I want to go after that.
00:39:39
Speaker
But to me, I think all four of those guys represent pretty much every championship the Green Bay Packers have ever won. And you're right. I mean, when I was trying to create my Rushmore, I was like, you know, there's so many easy picks, but then there's so many that
00:39:58
Speaker
Deserve it, but you know, how do you top which one are so I when you realize for you subtract by four quite Pretty quick four goes away really fast. Yeah, you know when you're trying to figure out So when I did mine I did of course I put Vince Lombardi on there I was thinking about me and I can never pronounce the guy's last name But Wes you probably know him a little bit or know the name a little bit The guy that hired Vince Oh
00:40:28
Speaker
It's like all Z. Oh, Dom, all knee check. Yeah. There you go. I was thinking about that because without him taking the chance on Vince, then we probably might not have been in that situation. But obviously I went with Vince Lombardi, you know, the trophies named after him, you know, like you said, that's what people recognize when they, when they think of the Packers, you know,
00:40:52
Speaker
hell i've got a button up here if i wanted to hit it it's what the hell's going on out there you know so i mean he's quotable he was innovative he was you know both loved and hated by his own players that you know it it was hard not to and you know it makes you wonder had he caught you know went to the doctor sooner and all that stuff if he might have
00:41:20
Speaker
stuck around a little bit longer or how his legacy might've went that way, but that's a whole another story for another day. Then I went Don Hudson because really Don Hudson like innovated the wide receiver position. And I don't think there's ever been a wide receiver since that's won two MVPs. I don't think there's been a receiver since it's won at least one MVP. Yeah, there probably won't be another one, I bet.
00:41:49
Speaker
And I know it's a completely different time and a completely different area, but that's still an amazing thing. And, you know, this is also a guy that was playing more than just wide receiver. He was playing defensive back. He was kicking, you know, he did all this other stuff. So.
00:42:06
Speaker
And he's always been the guy that if I could go back in time to watch a game, that would be, you know, a lot of people, Oh, I'd love to go see the ice bowl, or I'd love to go see this, or I'd love to go see Don Hudson play because that guy was what basically what we have now in a Christian Watson, but in a time period when there were no other Christian, there were no gyre, Alexander's just running through everybody.
00:42:34
Speaker
And, and so that, that, that'd be another one. I went with Reggie to Reggie. I know it's such the easy thing to say, Brett Farves, what got you into, you know, Packer football, Brett Farves. But Reggie on my end was the guy that got me into more of the Packer football. Now I have family up in Wisconsin, so I kind of grew up in the culture anyway.
00:42:56
Speaker
But what really got me going was Reggie because he was that soft spoken type of guy off the field. But then when you got him on the field, he was a terror. I mean, there was just a flip of the switch and he was gone. And I mean, I even, that was the first Jersey I ever owned was Reggie white. The night that they retired his Jersey, I retired in my Jersey and had never, I never wore it ever again.
00:43:23
Speaker
So kind of a personal reason, but then again, because like you said, Wes, that, you know, he was the guy that when free agency kicked, you know, the famous story from Mike Holmgren, you know, Reggie said that God had let me know where to go. And Mike Holmgren called him and said, Reggie, this is God come to Green Bay. So, you know,
00:43:46
Speaker
So they needed that spark. They needed that. They did. And even now, Green Bay has a hard time with some of these free agents not wanting to go there. So it just really was that push. And then the last guy I got is Ron Wolf because Ron Wolf is the guy that brought the Packers back into the winning tradition. Now you could put Bob Harlan there. You know, you could probably substitute one or the other because, you know, Bob Harlan, another Iowa guy, Des Moines.
00:44:12
Speaker
you know, all that good stuff. But between the two of them, they brought the winning culture back to green Bay. If it wasn't for Ron taking the chance to read, you know, go for Reggie to, you know, trade a first round pick for Brett far to bring in free agents like Keith Jackson and Andre rise in and Seth Joyner and all these guys who knows how
00:44:36
Speaker
you know, how much longer the Packers would be in obscurity. So, you know, I think that in itself would have to put Ron Wolf or like I said, you could flip flop him and Bob Harlan either way, because without Bob, Ron's not going to get hired and Ron's not going to go on. You know, obviously, Ron's got to OK stuff through Bob Harlan. So without Bob saying, you know, yeah, that's good. Go for it. You know,
00:45:02
Speaker
We could still be, we could be the next Detroit right now. And that's a scary thought. The best part I always like about the Bob Harlan story, in addition to being just an amazing man and everything he did for the atrium and keeping the team here in Green Bay. But it's the fact that he hired a GM that obviously Ron Wolf did a lot with the Raiders, but
00:45:23
Speaker
you know, had a nightmarish run with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, right? A situation that probably nobody would have been able to succeed in. He he hires Wolf and then he trades, you know, Wolf goes and trades a first round pick for a guy that had thrown two passes and they both went to the opposing team the previous season. I mean, if that I've always joked. I mean, can you imagine if Twitter was around when the Packers pull off that trade? They'd been trading a first round pick for Brett Favre. Why isn't it a conditional seventh?
00:45:51
Speaker
You know, but he believed in his guy. He always did. He believed with him before that draft too. And that's what you got to do at every point when you talk about great GMs, great coaches, and also great players. You have to take a chance at some point and both of those guys did that.
00:46:07
Speaker
Well, Nick, we're running low on time, so why don't you go ahead and give us your... Three quick seconds. Luckily, you guys have made it a bit easy for me because we share a lot of the same guys. Lombardi, I think, for me, is probably the most obvious one. As someone who's a bit younger, I am like a bit biased, you know, with Curly Lambo. That's like, you know, I probably should have included him on there as well. You're very correct, Wes.
00:46:35
Speaker
Hey. It all works. Yeah. There's no wrong answers. Sure. Very true. Except, yeah. Yeah. Well, unless you put like Brett Conway or, you know, somebody like that on there, Joe Johnston or something. Seven-string receiver. Good basketball player.
00:47:01
Speaker
Yeah. And then, you know, obviously Fav slash Reggie Wyatt, you know, the, the like revitalization of the Packers for me, you know, like one of the biggest reasons why I continue to follow the team is obviously the fact that it's, it doesn't have an owner, like you said, Wes, but the, the.
00:47:16
Speaker
a continued culture and like sort of institutional nature of what Ron Wolf established in the 90s is something I think is just so special because I mean, how many teams really have a like their own like tree of coaches that still follow almost exact same kind of philosophy and can consistently perform at a high level? I mean, like, you know, last week, the last week I was on, I covered, you know, Gudukon's tenure. And obviously, you know, he's
00:47:43
Speaker
he's comes from, comes from that tree. And the fact that he was able to flip this roster in, you know, two, three years to arguably the best roster in the league. It's just like that. It's just so amazing that we still continue to get these guys from within the organization. And it's one of the, one of the reasons why I trust the Packers to be a good team in general. You know, that's why I feel safe going into this new era because I know they're going to be making smart decisions. And yeah, the only one I had who wasn't on your, on your, your guys list was a Charles Woodson.
00:48:13
Speaker
I just think his whole entire involvement with the team is the perfect encapsulation of what Green Bay's culture is. I mean, you know, he's a guy who came in and he didn't want to be there, you know, the very infamous like sort of like attitude issues and, you know, kind of arguing with the coaches and things like that. And by the time that he was done, you know,
00:48:33
Speaker
He was beloved by the fan base. He loved Green Bay, still does. And he's still involved with the team. You know, it's so funny how that kind of flips around. And, you know, as a guy, I think we kind of missed in the past couple of years, someone who can really emotionally rally and yeah, like who can push the defense to be better versions of themselves. You know, I think you'd have a hard time not
00:48:57
Speaker
running through a brick wall for that guy who are on the same team. I just think, yeah, that's something I have a special place in my heart. And also, he has my favorite Josie number ever. So that's definitely a few points there. Somebody asked us in our inbox column about what are the most iconic numbers that aren't retired, but you equate them with players. So certainly, I said Leroy Butler right away. But I'll tell you what, man, when you think of the modern era Packers football 21, Charles Woodson, I think that,
00:49:24
Speaker
I think of it in the same way as I think of 36 with Leroy. I mean, that when I see someone wearing, you know, respect to Eric Stokes, but when I see somebody wearing 21 now, I think that's Charles Woodson's number here in that.
00:49:39
Speaker
Those are some big shoes to fill and it's kind of good that they do retire some numbers. Could you imagine trying to give somebody 92 or somebody number four or, you know, 15 or do it. We, we, but we almost had like a crazed, like media like thing with Sean Clifford being an Aaron Rodgers locker. Like, could you imagine like they're passing out 12? I mean, my God, I can't even, yeah, you know,
00:50:07
Speaker
Like I said, I used to go to a lot of the training camps and anytime one of the UDFAs had come out with number five, you know, it was, oh, that's so wrong. You know, that's warning. They, why is he wearing, isn't that retired now? The thing I think that people don't realize is when you have 90 players on the roster, yes, you can do some doubling up with numbers, but there's only, there's only 99 numbers. Well now there's a hundred because you can wear zero, but they haven't passed it out yet. Like I think people sometimes realize like,
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, you're going to have to occasionally use a five during training camp to get through things. But it is what it is. Well, I keep joking that soon. It's going to end up being like a B C and just a little tiny one hundred and one hundred and one. It says, oh, one. And there's like a tiny one in the front of it. Yeah, I can see that five to the second power.
00:51:03
Speaker
But that's all I got. What else do you got, Nick? No, that's all. Um, yeah. I think Nick's got class. I'm about to get, about to get in detention. I just want to say again, from both Joy and myself, thanks so much for coming on. It's been a joy to run the show with you here and you pick your brain for all this information that otherwise would never have access to.
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. We can get you back sometime, maybe in training camp or something, not during season, because I know that's your busy time, but maybe during the training camp so we can get it, get a bird's eye view of what's going on up there.
00:51:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'd love to jump on again. And, uh, yeah, maybe, maybe we'll catch it a little bit earlier on the central time zone. And fortunately, I think I was able to mostly I'm an old guy now, boys. So it's like, I was able to mostly stay with you, but it's like, sometimes I get a little tired, go to bed earlier, but yeah, I think, I think it turned out all right. Shut up. Awesome. I'm older than both of you. Winter comes for us all, my friend.
00:52:11
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Again, I thank you and it was really great that you actually, I know some guys just kind of ignored when people say, hey, I've got a podcast, will you come on? But I really appreciate you.
00:52:26
Speaker
I'm happy to join you. One thing I always find interesting about those people, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I'm in the communications business. If people don't want to talk to me, whether it's in the locker room or phone calls, I can't do my job. I always find that interesting when journalists or people are like, I won't do your podcast even though literally everything that I do is predicated on, excuse me sir, will you talk to me for four minutes? I really need to talk to you.
00:52:51
Speaker
It's like, if you're not going to be able to pay that forward, you probably need to get into a different line of work. But yeah, no, I'm very happy to join you guys. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, awesome. Well, as always, guys, you can find us on Twitter. You can find myself at Nicholas grgr. You find Joe at Iowa underscore Joe 86. Of course, Wes at Wes hod and the podcast at app back underscore Packers until next time. See you later.
00:53:26
Speaker
you