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Love and Loss: A Mother's Story
130 Plays11 days ago
In this deeply moving episode, I sit down with my amazing friend, Jen Huber, a mother who faced every parent’s worst nightmare—the loss of her child, Emma to cancer. Through tears, honesty, and raw vulnerability, we talk about her journey of grief, love, and living authentically through it all. This conversation is a reminder that even in the darkest times, love endures. Whether you’ve experienced loss or want to better understand how to support someone who has, this episode is for you.
Warning: This episode includes sensitive content around the loss of a child to cancer, which may be triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised as the content may be distressing for some
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Transcript
Content warning and podcast introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
This episode includes sensitive content around the loss of a child to cancer which may be triggering to some of our listeners. Listener discretion is advised as the content may be distressing for some.
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Exhausted Sparrows Unite where I am here to encourage you to embrace your messiness and live your best authentic life. Today we're diving in deep into some often hidden emotions that accompany the journey of grief.
A conversation with Jennifer Huber on grief
00:00:39
Speaker
I am joined by my remarkable and close friend Jennifer Huber, who suffered a heartbreak that no parent should have to endure, the loss of her 15-year-old to cancer. Together, today, we're going to be talking about What does it mean to live authentically through an unimaginable loss, to be honest with ourselves and others, and to allow ourselves not to be okay? This conversation might be difficult, but it's one that so many need to hear, especially those that feel this pressure to put on a brave face. So, Jennifer, welcome. though my friend my I'm gonna start crying already, so we better get the tissues out. We have absolutely no tissues, but of course it's understandable.
Connecting the podcast to Sparrow's Nest charity
00:01:25
Speaker
I mean, you know, your your story is one of such insurmountable grief, but part of the reason that I brought you in here today is for those that don't know, the podcast is really based around our charity, and the charity is called Sparrow's Nest. And what we do here in the Hudson Valley, five counties in New York,
00:01:46
Speaker
is we feed families that are facing a cancer diagnosis. So my hands and my whole body is in the middle of this day in and day out. And I get to see how people look at grief and how or if they even process this grief and how they move forward. And part of the reason that I brought Jen in um is just because through all of it, you know you've been very honest in all of the messiness of it. yeah you know um I think a lot of people feel that you know we we have to just say, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, because that's that's kind of what we're taught. But I'd love for you to get into the story about your little girl and kind of give listeners you know some information about you know
00:02:40
Speaker
how things unfolded. Yeah, so first of all, thank you for inviting me on here to talk with you because you're one of my dear friends and it's the support system of people like you that help to kind of get people through these kinds of things. So I appreciate you giving me a voice today to share this stuff.
Emma's diagnosis and initial challenges
00:02:58
Speaker
um So yeah, like Krista shared, um we first met under unfortunate circumstances, you and I, because my daughter In August of 2016, she was diagnosed with a very rare form of a spindle, basically a spindle cell sarcoma, but at the time they had really no idea what it was. And she was, it was just prior to her 11th birthday, so she was in the summer in between 5th and 6th grade and, you know, we were getting ready to start middle school and then out of nowhere,
00:03:31
Speaker
life just changes like completely comes out of left field and just changes um and so she started with her her cancer was on her kidney was on her right kidney and so we went into treatment on the first day of what should have been her first day of middle school was her first day of chemo and her birthday was the same time and it was just you know You're just numb. You don't even know you know what to do and you just you kind of just go in it and everything is just overwhelming. um So she you know proceeded with pretty intense treatment. for She had seven cycles of chemo. She had 26 abdominal radiation treatments to her stomach.
00:04:11
Speaker
um We were in and out of the hospital constantly. You know, she would start a cycle of chemo and then, you know, you have like a little bit of time after you're done with your cycle of chemo to come back and try to re recruitup recoup and have your your counts kind of recoup. regenerate and if you get a fever you have to go back in the hospital and so that would happen with us every single time so it became our home away from home so we were there and of course sparrow's nest you know took us on as being one of the first families to feed you know feed a child that was that was ill and and you know you just start getting this tremendous support system of people that just kind of rally around you because you know we're just your normal people this type of stuff always happens to other people and Right. You always just think like, wow, that's so bad. I feel so awful for them. And you never think that something like this is going to happen to you and to your baby until it does, you know, and then as a parent, all you want to do is fix it for them. And no matter what you do, it's out of your control. You can, you know, you try to fix it and you try to do be there and love them through it. But ultimately it's none of it's really in your control.
The aggressive return of Emma's cancer
00:05:18
Speaker
So you just have to kind of.
00:05:21
Speaker
Endure, right? And sometimes enduring means, let me get through this next minute. Let me get through this next five seconds. Let me just rest for a minute and take a deep breath, you know, those kinds of things. so um So she went through her first round of cancer, and then we wrapped up things. And I want to say it was January, February of 2017. And naively, we thought, OK, she's done. This is over. This is behind us. And you know she went back to school, and we kind of got better. We sort of got a clear bill of health. And she was going for, you know when you have cancer, you have to go for repeatedly.
00:05:55
Speaker
get screened to check and make sure things are not recurring and stuff. So she would get you know those imaging and things done. And things were OK for a while. um And then she went back to school. And I'm i'm a school teacher myself. And I went back to so to school myself that following fall of 2017. And we started out the year and just thinking, OK, we're warriors. And we got this behind us. And then the unimaginable happened again. It was actually right around this time in 2017.
00:06:22
Speaker
um eight you know seven or eight years ago that the cancer came back and it went came back with a vengeance and went into her lungs and went to multiple spots in her lungs. So we were back at it again and she went back in and that was probably, I mean every cancer experience is challenging but that was probably the most scary and challenging at the time because we had already been through the unthinkable.
00:06:48
Speaker
So when you start a diagnosis with something and you've never experienced it and you don't know what to expect, you're kind of going into it blindly and it's scary, but you go into things blindly, you know, and the second time around, you know what to expect and it's terrifying, you know.
00:07:05
Speaker
So yeah, we all just rallied again and and she really fought hard and and and things were getting really, really tough for her. she Basically we didn't have an end to date of when this was supposed to wrap up because now it was just, let's just fight to keep her alive. Let's just keep, you know,
00:07:23
Speaker
survival going um and so basically we just kept fighting and fighting and then it led us into the following spring and in and out of the hospital I mean at one point we were in the hospital for three months straight she was having fevers that just would not give up. And so we were just, we lived there. We lived in the hospital. um And so, you know, of course, you were talking, mentioned stuff about grief. How do you not start to have anticipatory grief at that time of like, what's going to happen? Every single thing, is this going to be our last Christmas together? Is this going to be our last Easter together? and and
00:07:59
Speaker
You know as a parent who again trying to fix everything and make everything perfect you start spinning your wheels you start acting like that person in the circus that's like spinning all the plates in the air just to keep everything going and trying to make everything perfect for them because you don't know if it's going to be their last or your last time with them so you've got all those emotions going on on top of being a wife and being a mother to other children and you have a household at home that you have to keep going and I have a career that I had to put on hold. Thankfully I had a beautiful support system with my job as well and you know you're ah you're a momcologist too and you're also trying to take care of your own mental health and
00:08:38
Speaker
And, you know, there's just so many things that are involved with all of this. um But Emma continued to get really, really sick. And um we were almost on hospice. I wasn't accepting hospice coming in. They did send hospice to our house and they did meetings and stuff, but I wasn't in that mindset that I was ready to allow that at the time.
Hope through a genetic study and a targeted drug
00:08:57
Speaker
um and A few weeks after that, I want to say this was like May now of 2018, I enrolled her in a study up in Boston just as like a last-ditch effort to try to help and see whatever we but whatever we have to do to try to like help things and see what can be done. We had really no other options at this point. And that was basically a study that did genetic testing of the tumor cells and they were able to miraculously identify that she had this very rare fusion in her cancer.
00:09:27
Speaker
that many people in the world actually had. um So she was quite the unicorn in that regard. And being a child, since they were able to identify that she had this rare, it was like called an N-TREC-2 fusion, um they were able to match her with a targeted therapy drug that pretty much, once we put her on that drug,
00:09:46
Speaker
It was our miracle. like It was like literally like the skies opened up from God himself and handed us this miracle medication that made her better. It literally cleared up her lungs.
00:09:59
Speaker
She had multiple tumors like the size of fists in her lungs. I mean, they were big. um And so we started taking this medication that she qualified for because of this special um genetic testing that they had done and identified and it healed her and it made her better. And she was fine. The only thing was that she had to be on this medication to keep the cancer at bay. when It was almost like a firewall.
00:10:22
Speaker
you know the medication was. And she was one of only several children worldwide that was on this. She was definitely one of these people that was paving the way of helping these doctors learn and understand what this but these types of drugs can do for people. And just she was kind of like the guinea pig, but of course we were all in because it was saving her life. 100%. We went from being, you know, she was so, so sick to thinking we were going to lose her to like three months later going for her imaging. And they're like, yeah, so the tumors that she had were like pretty much cut in half by this medication within several months. And then a few months more down the line, they were gone. They were completely like you couldn't even see them on the imaging. And so it was one of those things we were like, OK.
00:11:07
Speaker
She's just going to be on these these drugs for the rest of her life. You know, sometimes people have to take blood pressure medication or heart medication or whatever to kind of keep themselves healthy and stable. And that's what we said this was going to be the thing that she had to do. And of course we were willing to do it. So we would go up to Boston every month, we'd get her medication, we'd come back. She was able to resume normalcy, um go back to school, her hair grew back. youre Looking at her, you would think that she was just your typical teenager that had nothing else going on in her life. Meanwhile, she had you know stage four cancer are still. you know She never was completely in remission. um you know And then cancer doesn't play nice. And we were on this drug and we were having a lot of success with it. um And so it's mutated it It kind of twisted things around and things mutated. And then
00:11:57
Speaker
Again, the unimaginable happened.
Cancer's mutation and the search for new treatments
00:11:58
Speaker
She started having headaches and we were trying to figure out what's going on you know with these headaches and went down to the hospital and got some scans done and it had moved into her brain because it had mutated. so like it kind of the drug It outsmarted the drug, basically.
00:12:12
Speaker
So then it was like this constant race, let's, okay, let's find another drug. And her doctors were amazing, both up in Boston and down here in New York. um You know, they worked collaboratively as a team and they did everything, you know, we could to try to help and find another answer and find another option. And, you know, she went on different targeted therapy drugs to try to help. And some of them would work for periods of time. and then There would be increased activity again and we'd have to go back and we'd switch gears and um four years ago last weekend actually was one of the was the like the last time that we had we went up for scans. It was right right before Halloween of 2020.
00:12:49
Speaker
We went up to Boston to have her monthly, so you know, her scans and they called, usually they call me on the ride home when I'm driving back home and say, okay, things are good, we'll see you in a month. And I didn't get that phone call, that particular ride home. And I was like, okay, something is up. And I called her doctors as soon as we got home and they said, we need you back up here tomorrow because the drug's not working again and we need to take her off of this particular drug to kind of clear out her system so that we can start her on this other drug that we want to try with her next.
00:13:18
Speaker
And it's that wonky time in between when we took the firewall down that the cancer just completely got super aggressive. So I went from having, although you always know she's sick and there's stuff going on, she literally was making TikToks in the car on the ride up. I mean, she was a 15 year old kid. She was. I think we were watching the TikToks. on the car, on the right. and And just, you know, typical, you know, all right, we're at this again. This, you know, as scary as it is, it did become very habitual in a lot of ways because we were just, Emma always was one of those kids that, all right, something would happen. And then we'd figure out a way to make it better. And it was like, she was like that performer that would spin around and go, ta-da, okay, I'm fixed now. It's everything's better. So
00:14:01
Speaker
You always know in the back of your mind that something can go really, really bad and wrong, but we just didn't think that it was going to happen that weekend and the cancer just got super aggressive within a day, two days.
Emma's passing and her impact on family and community
00:14:14
Speaker
And we lost her. We lost her on November 2nd of 2020. I remember that phone call. That was my baby. I remember where I was. Yeah. Oh. I know. Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
So yeah yeah, I think part of the reason that um I wanted to speak to you today is because one, you're just so honest and open and real about it. But you were throughout the entire diagnosis. Something that I loved about you is you put it out there in your own words. You know, I think social media is just sometimes amazing.
00:14:49
Speaker
Absolutely. And sometimes completely dangerous. I totally agree. People take these stories for whatever reason and snowball all of these exaggerated things yeah that aren't even true. And then you've got this monster on your hands. And what I loved is that you took this and you said you are going to hear my voice and you are going to read what I am telling you is going on with my daughter. Right. i think you know At the time, too, like my emma and her father and I met in college. And we divorced when she was two years old. um So we came from a situation, in addition to Emma just being the personality that she was. She was like the mayor. Everywhere she went, she had such a dynamic personality. And you know people just adored her. And she'd walk into the room. And people just knew who she was. And she just brought this energy. So you know she had her own following, if you want to call it.
00:15:42
Speaker
um But, you know, being in a family situation where she has a household with her father and then all of those people connected it to her on that side and then a household with, you know, I'm remarried and, you know, we have our household and, you know, all of the people in extended family plus all the friends from college and plus I'm, you know, i'm a I've been a public school teacher for 25 years. So all the families that I've known over the years in that community and this community. And so we had so, we were so, so blessed. with so much support, which is just, it was literally like the best way I could describe it is like, remember in the eighties when like the Care Bears would all stand together and you had like the Care Bear stare of people just like shooting their kindness and energy at you. Like that's what it felt like, you know? And so you have all this coming at you and you just want to make sure, because like you said, but social media is a wonderful thing, but sometimes the wrong things get put out there and
00:16:33
Speaker
things get misconstrued. And at one point there was somebody who thought that she needed a kidney transplant and somebody out of the kindness of their heart were willing to put out stuff on and social media that they were going to look for a kidney. And I was like, no, no, no, no, thank you so much. I appreciate your kindness, but that's not necessary enough. So I wanted to make sure that there was a space where accurate information and up-to-date information was being put out to our masses of people that just loved and supported us.
Jennifer's journey of sharing and healing
00:16:59
Speaker
So I did, I created a Facebook page for her. that within two or three days we had over a thousand followers. And that Facebook page is called Warrior Princess Emma. Just in case anybody's listening and I'm sure you're still letting people in. Yeah, it's still on there. You know, it's kind of obviously it's slowed down a lot. me Her father and I will just post kind of a memorial type of things for her from time to time. um It's not as active as as it was, you know, I would just because, you know, ah again, on the other side, too, when you're in it, when you're going through
00:17:29
Speaker
You know, ah to your child and you're helping them heal and you're sitting bedside with them and and you just, you know, sometimes you need a break. Although everybody has nothing but the best intentions, but people text you and people reach out to you. And sometimes it's the only thing they talk to you about too, you know, and you're just, I'm still human and I still want to know what's going on. and the You know, the TV show that happened the other night or those was kinds of things. So that was sort of like my way of putting the accurate information out to the masses. Everybody knew. And then if you reach out to us, then just like, tell me that you went to dinner last night or like, you just, you're yearning so much for the normalcy. So that was also my way of getting like the hard, tough stuff out and everybody could just know what needed to be said. And then I don't have to constantly.
00:18:16
Speaker
you know, respond to another text or those kinds of things. Well, it's mentally exhausting. Although people have the best intentions, you know, but it is, it's, it's mentally exhausting. So it was like, okay, let me just get this out there quick. Boom, boom, boom. All right. Now everybody knows what's going on. Latest update and now.
00:18:31
Speaker
Let's just focus on this and whatever, yeah. And your writing was always so... There was always a light to what you wrote. Even in the the darkest of information, there was always a light to the way that you were writing it, right? The hope, and you were always speaking of, you know, the healing, which um had to be therapeutic for you. Absolutely. Because I needed that mindset myself. You know, i how do I... Show her that I'm scared. Although I was, you know, but you have to like that your children look to you.
00:19:03
Speaker
Like to to judge, you know, they watch your reactions, they watch what you're doing and how you're responding to things. And so I was very mindful and careful about how I presented things because I didn't want to create more anxiety and fear for her because i already it was really scary. You know, so I had to be in that mindset of, I wouldn't say positivity because I don't know if I was a, you know, super Pollyanna positive person all the time, but um You know, I definitely leaned into my faith a lot and I would just use that to try to put out this positive message and bring this Energy that we were hoping for um That's all you could it's all you have that that I felt like I had control over sure, you know, yeah Yeah, and you know, I think um after Emma passed
00:19:48
Speaker
watching you on social media, walking this line where I appreciated though that you weren't fine and you were letting people know that you weren't fine because I think sometimes we have like this societal pressure right to push us to show a strength that we we don't even have. and And I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's it's because you know we think that's what's expected of us. and And if that's so, how sad is that? Oh my gosh, yeah. For sure. yeah Because you know you you you really don't have that strength in the middle of that heartbreak. And that should be OK. That should authentically be able to be what you should say.
00:20:34
Speaker
And I think everybody grieves differently. 100%. There's no right or wrong way to grieve, you know, because you're pulling different experiences. You're pulling, you know, whether you have a religious background or you don't, or just like, you know, I had grandparents that passed away in my life, but I was a young child, you know, my,
00:20:53
Speaker
I didn't have somebody that is this profoundly connected to me other than my daughter. you just You know what I mean? That was the first major, very, very profound loss that I had outside of my grandparents when I was like 13 and then my, you know, every loss hurts and every everything's a little different, but it it's, you know, you you pull from all of your experiences and you pull from your support system and the people around you and and it's okay to grieve differently, you know, and so you can't judge other people for, you know, I had, there's other parents that around the same time that I lost Emma, you know, these warrior parents that sit bedside with their children, they are the toughest people you ever want to meet in your life. I mean, you, there's some pretty amazing people out there. And we, there's a group of us in particular that kind of lost our kids all around the same time. And, and
00:21:43
Speaker
We all reach out to each other and support one another, but they grieve very differently than I do. And, you know, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I do put stuff out there, you know, and sometimes, you know, you get little comments. Why are you so public with certain things? or in And part of me, the reason for my reason for doing some of that is I feel like if I'm able to help one other person through our story or hear how we handle this or how we handle that or what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling about this, if it gets to one person's ears that are struggling with something, then it gives a little purpose.
00:22:20
Speaker
for some of this stuff that i because I'm still trying to figure out why did this happen. I've had my moments where I'm yelling and screaming at God and crying on the floor and and just screaming the way any parent who's lost a child would. But then you know when you see that just by sharing my raw situation or how authentic I was with this or that,
00:22:41
Speaker
and it helped this person or it helped that person or hearing about Emma's story and how it gave them an idea to do this or do that that they didn't think of before. It brings a purpose to all of this for me and it does it helps me to heal, to try to help other people a little bit through it. Sure.
00:22:56
Speaker
And you know, you've experienced it. It's different when someone who has an experience that grief tries to help compared to somebody that does. There's a completely different connection with you and a parent whose child is now diagnosed with cancer than anything I say. Yeah. You know, and I get to meet and love all of you, but you know, I'm still not in the middle of it. You don't know unless you know. You don't know unless you know. It's true.
00:23:25
Speaker
So, you know, you also, right, have to give yourself permission not to have any expectations of yourself, right? Not to have any timelines on yourself. Like there's, there's a lot of that that you have to go through and you have to be able to let control of, especially if you like control, which both of us like to have some kind of control. um'm a teacher of hypotheically So how, how does that look when, when you, when you really had to say,
00:23:51
Speaker
Sometimes it looks really messy and other times it's okay. You know, it's, it's a day that sometimes you have to wake up and say, okay, you have to make that choice for yourself. I'm going to allow myself to be messy today. And sometimes I'm going to pull it together and I have to, you know, there's other things I have to do. And you know, so it's really a moment by moment choice sometimes. And it's allowed, it's okay to allow yourself the grace to be messy when you need to be messy. Well, let's talk about Grace now. So how did you navigate the process of living life without her, right? Like, how were you able to
00:24:32
Speaker
continue living and being in the moment and giving yourself grace for everything you were feeling, right? Because there's anger, there's guilt. I mean, I can't even imagine how many different emotions there are, but how do you give yourself grace through something this traumatic? So there's there's a few things. um You have to show up for yourself out of line. Like you have to put in the work.
00:24:59
Speaker
um I would be lying if I didn't say that I needed a lot of help. you know i had there I went to a therapist, a grief trauma therapist for a period of about six or seven months, and then that kind of plateaus. it's good know Everybody's a different timeline. I've worked with a life coach. I do Reiki. I do yoga. I do i meditate. I lean into my family.
00:25:23
Speaker
Again, like I said, I have a beautiful support system that not everybody has, and so I'm so grateful for that. I have a soon-to-be five-year-old little boy. I have to show up for him. You're so busy. You are so busy. I'm a full-time teacher. I've been teaching for 25 years. I have to get out of bed and go to work and be there for my little people that I teach. So there's things that you know you have to do, and you have to just do it you know And if you don't have those things, then maybe you create some things, right? that can That can be a distraction that can get you out of the house, that can get you moving. Sometimes there's healthy distractions and sometimes there's not. And so people fall into those pitfalls too. You know you start spending money over spending money or you know sometimes turn to people turn to alcohol or other things. you know So like I can't speak to other people's experiences. I can speak to mine. you know but
00:26:18
Speaker
um It's a daily choice to just, all right, how am I going to show up for myself today? Um, if that means I'm ridiculously busy, but I'm going to carve an hour out on a Wednesday night and go to my yoga class, because that's what I need. Then that's what you have to do. Or, you know, I'm, I got a gazillion things going on, but I'm going to take a walk with my dogs down to the stream in the back of my house and just sit and breathe for a few minutes. It's just being.
00:26:45
Speaker
you know you have to show up for yourself. That's the best advice I can give because when you don't, after a certain period of time, it just builds and builds and builds and then you explode and you take it out on the people around you and then it's just...
00:26:59
Speaker
It's more ugly than it needs to be. Sure. It's not healthy for you. You're already in such a ah ah sad place. you know And you're just trying to pull yourself out every day. So I think part of it, too, for me, too, I have a particular belief system about where my daughter is right now. And and we're and and i you know everybody pulls from there. Again, like I said before, everybody pulls from their experiences with stuff.
00:27:27
Speaker
I am confident that she is okay and that she's fine. And I know I'm going to start crying, but like for me as her mom, as much as I miss her and I want her me here more than anything in the world, she was dealing with something that was so hard and so painful and so traumatic for her. And it was hurting her. And I know for a fact she's in a place right now where she's safe from all of that. So as her mom, I and taking my own selfishness of wanting her here and I'm feeling okay. I wouldn't say, you know, I mean, that's hard, Jen. That's so hard to like know that she's okay. I'm not okay. Right. She's okay. So I have, you know, I, I know she's safe and protected from all that. I was trying to keep her safe and protected from. So,
00:28:21
Speaker
And you also know that you will be able to see her again one day whole. Absolutely and I feel her around me and you know all those things you know we can we can get deep about that stuff too but I mean you know I just I feel her energy with us. I know she's probably here in this room with it cause she's, you were one of her favorite people. I mean, she and I, yes, I made her potato salad just in case she showed up today. Um, but yeah, you know, that's, that's, that's really what it is. Right. yeah And I lead, you know, the times were in, it's hard, you know, the holidays are coming and you know, my little boy, he's at an age now where he knows he he was 10 months old when she passed away. And and so he was so little and,
00:29:00
Speaker
He knows he has a big sister, but he's like, you know, he's like at that age where he doesn't understand death and like, well, where is she? Like, she says we have a big, beautiful picture of her on the wall. And I'm like, ah you know, Mommy, are you? Yeah, I'm a little sad. I'm missing Emma today. Well, she's right there. You know, he points to her picture because he just doesn't get it. He's like so literal.
00:29:17
Speaker
you know So we're at that point where we're leaning into the holidays. We just had a birthday for her and you know pediatric cancer awareness month is a lot in the fall. you know So you just you just take it in stride and and sometimes you do get that grief burnout after all of it. So again, what do you have to do? You have to separate yourself and carve out that time to just, okay.
00:29:39
Speaker
to take a breath. low down So before we wrap it up, you know, like you said earlier, people grieve differently. There are people that are just angry and there are people that are in acceptance and and they're all different places. i've been over to What would you suggest for the people on the outside, right? Because I hear of some people that completely stay away because they think, oh my goodness, they have so much going on. but You know, I will talk to families that will say, that's not what we need. And then there are some people that are continuously in your face, which also may not be what you need. But what should somebody on the outside do? What would be good advice since everybody is different? Yeah. I mean, I guess you have to just, and this goes for anything. You have to like teach people how to treat you.
00:30:26
Speaker
You know, basically and it's like that with anything and it's like that certainly with grief. So you have to, you know, I've had days where I've gone to work and I'm having a rough morning and I've had one, you know, some of my colleagues come in and they want to talk to me about this or that. And I've had to say, look, I'm sorry, I can't do this today. Maybe, you know, touch it and people respect that. But again, it's just teaching people how you want to be treated and how you know People don't know unless you teach them. I love that. That's the teacher in me, I guess. you know But I love that, right? Because every day is different. And so some days you're going to say, can please, friends, can we get together and release that? I need somebody to make me laugh or somebody, you know let's go for a walk. And other times you do want to just be alone. you know and so But people don't know unless you tell them. Sure. And and and just say, you know this is one of those days where I need a little extra more support. and And other times, maybe not so much. Or maybe you are going to be the support for the other person that
00:31:18
Speaker
You know, I've had a lot of people reach out to completely different circumstances than mine, you know, but have lost loved ones. Um, and so they reach out to me cause they think I'm like the guru or something with some of this stuff, which I'm like, you know, I wouldn't say guru, but you know what I mean? Like I walked it, you know? And so I, I tried to, to kind of just be, hold space for them, you know, and listen, nobody wants advice sometimes either, you know, they just want you to be there.
00:31:44
Speaker
So, you know, if somebody doesn't actually say that if you're listening now and you are, you know, you have a loved one that is going through, through grief and you don't exactly know what they need, maybe the best thing to do is ask them. Yeah. And you may have to ask them five times a day. I mean, people would do that even when I'm sick. What can I do to help you? I don't know. I don't know, but just, you know, pray for us. Do what you know. So in one day, is what you need one day is very different than what you might need another day. So.
00:32:12
Speaker
Um, again, I think it's most important to know for yourself to allow yourself that space to figure it out when you need to. Um, you know, there's no right or wrong. Like I said before, there's no right or wrong way to grieve. There really isn't. It's so, so different from every, for everybody and everybody's circumstance. And the person that they're grieving over is, is so different from one person to the next. And you know, it's, it's.
00:32:37
Speaker
It's not a fun club to be in at all, you know? It's not a fun club. No. And do you notice now, do you have a PTSD?
Adjusting to life after loss
00:32:47
Speaker
You know, I i mean, i I feel that I hear this over and over again that you are just trying to survive it. You are not even in it. You are just trying to look ahead to survive it. And then when it's over, there is this this huge like weight that that falls on you because of all you've been through where you just you couldn't have all the emotions you wanted to let out well it's it's interesting you said that earlier when I mentioned like it's like when you're in it and you have all these people surrounding you kind of like the Care Bears all shooting their energy at you and you know
00:33:20
Speaker
And then, you know and in my case, my daughter passed. And then you still have this the the circus of energy all around you during the few weeks after that you know you have you have the wake and the funeral and da, da, da, da. And then all of a sudden, it all just stops. Because and not that anybody's intentionally trying to not be there, but people resume their lives. They go back to life and everything just stops.
00:33:41
Speaker
And when you're in a cancer situation, it's not just you know lose it like with any loss, people lose somebody and then you go through that and then you have that silence afterwards. But when you're fighting cancer, you it's a different level of busyness because you're constantly running to doctors and you have you know so many, like I said before, I've always felt like that circus performer spinning all the plates in the air and keeping everything going. And then Emma passed away and it's It was a strange thing and a a lot of therapy for me to be okay with saying that it was like taking a platter that I was spinning in the air and then just putting it down and I finally was allowed to let it land. You know, because it always would kind of be like one of those planes that would fly and it would touch the ground a little bit and then something would happen to kick us back up in the air again when Emma was sick. um And then finally everything just landed.
00:34:29
Speaker
And it was the most strange feeling um because for over we fought cancer for four and a half years, so close to four and a half years, to now I don't have to go to Boston anymore. I don't have a doctor's appointment. I don't have to rush. her I mean, it was just like an eeriness to it. um So I forgot where I was going with telling this part of the story, but it' it's just...
00:34:50
Speaker
knowing that you're not alone, I guess, when those things happen. that and And it's always like if I have a friend of mine that I know, like a girlfriend of mine recently lost her father and you know everybody's obviously helping and supportive right around. I waited like three or four weeks and then I sent her the card. I said, now this is the time I know now that you need to hear from somebody because I felt that way too. yeah you know Because people go back to their lives as and that's what happens. you know It's not for any bad reason other than people just do that. you know so It's the people, you would reach out to me and text me from time. you know it's It's really appreciated those those types of things. So I would encourage people to to do that and be mindful of that too, if you know a friend or you know somebody who's going through a loss. Those chickens are helpful. Absolutely. And just you know with the charity, that was something that I noticed years ago. I was like, wait a second.
00:35:42
Speaker
You know, it's not all rainbows and unicorns with diagnosis and sometimes this is the way it ends. And then I was like, and now we're just going to stop feeding them. oh yeah So I was like, we can't do that, which is my board was like, well, what does that mean? And I'm like, well, food coming for another year. We have to feed them for another year because like that is exactly what happens. This loneliness settles in because there is so much busyness and now there's so much quiet. It's such a shift in energy. It's it's it's like, whoa, you're so, so in it and so much, and then it just ends, you know and so many levels. you know The person is no longer there. The energy is no longer coming at you. with a The busyness, and there the stress too, it's an insurmountable amount of stress that you're under. but
00:36:27
Speaker
it's You're just used to living like that. It's like fight or flight mode.
Honoring Emma's legacy and closing thoughts
00:36:30
Speaker
like You're just used to living like that and then all of a sudden that stops too so you don't know what to do with yourself. right you know um so yeah It's an interesting journey, that's for sure. But doing these kinds of things, you know my husband sometimes would even get mad at and be, why do you go and do the races? why you know I've done two races with you. you know Why do you put yourself in these situations where you're talking because I still have this desire, even though my daughter's not physically here anymore, you don't change your desire to want to be a mother to them and mother them and and do things for them. So this is my way of still doing things for Emma and showing up for her and and using our so experience to sort of help other people. and and
00:37:13
Speaker
you know, bring attention to some of these things that people don't see or realize behind the closed doors. And it's how her legacy lives on. Absolutely. You know, of course, you don't want this heartbreak to create this legacy. Never wish it upon my worst enemy. Never. But Jen, you're just ah just speaking to people is.
00:37:33
Speaker
So amazing, people that are in the situation, because not everybody can do this. Not everybody can go through losing a loved one from a diagnosis, a sickness, whatever it is, and then get out there in the middle of it to help other people, right? Because of course there's triggers and there's different things. And that's okay if they can't, because some people might look to you and be like, oh, like feel bad about themselves that they're not. And for me, this is just part of my personality. i am and I'm a nurturer, I'm a teacher and, you know, by nature and I just, I want to use this, I want to give purpose to this, because I'm still figuring out the purpose the grand scheme of the purpose for all of it. I have plenty of purposes, like I keep i keep saying to Jen, I'm like, Jen, and she's like, not yet. So so in my head, i yeah. Chris has got big plans for me. I have big plans for Jen, but um I'm not quite there for some of them yet, but i'm slowly she's slowly getting me on board, doing these kinds of things. I mean, this is completely out of my comfort zone to do something like this. you wouldn't
00:38:29
Speaker
think it, i would but it is, you know, so like this is it's all. It's just another way that God puts us all together. to you know like We don't see exactly what this today is about, but this is gonna go far. And this is going to end up on somebody's radio station as they're driving somewhere that is in the middle of anguish and despair and loss, or maybe not even loss, but just in the middle of a very traumatic experience that they're trying to get through. And this is going to offer them something
00:39:03
Speaker
It's going to offer them them hope, right? I hope so. I mean, i I truly believe, you know, like God works through people, you know, and so like if this experience that I've gone through and Emma's gone through and me sharing her her story and I'm in our grief and if it's God's way of kind of working through us and this to sort of land in the ears of somebody who really needs to hear this, then that's That's part of why we do it, right? Mm-hmm. And that's exactly what's going to happen today. It is. I hope so. Somebody is going to hear this that needs to hear it. They are. And I'm not going to cry. Yeah, I know. We did really good. I'm proud of us. I can't even look at you. I know that we should have had a screen.
00:39:43
Speaker
I hope today's conversation helps you to feel encouraged, to show up authentically, even through the hardest of times. Remember, it is okay to let others know that you're not okay. absolutely In fact, it's necessary. It connects us and it reminds us that we're never truly alone.
00:40:01
Speaker
It's okay to not be okay. It is okay. Thank you, Jen, for bravely no coming in today, honestly. Sharing your story and your heart. If you're out there now and you're feeling lost, we want you to give yourself permission to be exactly where you are. Just, yep. Be exactly where you are. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for having me, my dear friend. I love you, my friend. Here's to giving ourself the grace to grow and the courage to be real. And to remember, we are all in this together.
00:40:28
Speaker
So be kind, until next time.