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Larry Stuart: Funerals 101 - Parts 3
23 Plays4 years ago
Welcome to the final part of The Glam Reaper’s three-part episode with Larry Stuart! The first two parts of this episode highlighted Larry’s thoughts on cremation, the crucial role of funeral directors, and the realities and challenges that funeral service providers face, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic.
This final episode of Funerals 101 with Larry Stuart highlights how policies, religious beliefs, and regulations in the industry can limit those who want to join the funeral community. They also talk about their thoughts on body disposal. Stay tuned as Jennifer and Larry unravel some of the myths and facts about cremation over the final part of this three-part series! Enjoy!
LITTLE NUGGETS OF GOLD:
- Regulations and policies affecting the funeral industry
- Different requirements on how to become a funeral director
- Limitations on state regulations in the industry
- The consultation services that Larry offers
- Larry’s stand on body disposal
- Myths and facts about cremation
- What happens to remains when a family doesn't collect them
Connect with Larry Stuart Jr.:
Website - http://www.larrystuartjr.com/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/larrystuartjr/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/LarryStuartJr
LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/pub/larry-stuart-jr/1a/a52/138
Instagram - @larrystuartjr
Raven Plume Consulting (formerly Cremation Strategies & Consulting)
Website - https://ravenplume.com/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RavenPlumeCons/
Instagram - @crematestrategy
Twitter - https://twitter.com/ravenplumecons
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/77610975
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper:
Facebook Page - Muldowney Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Facebook Page - Rainbow Bridge Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/rainbowbridgememorialsdotcom
Instagram - @muldowneymemorials & @jennifermuldowney
Twitter - @TheGlamReaper
Email us here: glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to The Glam Reaper Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Hi, my name is Jennifer Muldowney, aka The Glam Reaper, and this is The Glam Reaper Podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
We're on YouTube and we're in your ears.
00:00:11
Speaker
This show will focus on stories about love, life and loss, and we'll also have a massive input from the funeral world, since that's the world that I live in.
Welcoming Larry to the Show
00:00:20
Speaker
It is my absolute pleasure to welcome this episode's guest because he is one of my favoritest people in the entire funeral industry.
00:00:28
Speaker
And he's just a darling.
00:00:30
Speaker
Please welcome the incredible Larry.
00:00:37
Speaker
I don't want to sound like this is an almost paid for podcast by Larry because I agree with you again.
Challenges in Funeral Director Certification
00:00:46
Speaker
I agree that a certain amount of regulation is absolutely imperative for the safety of the public.
00:00:53
Speaker
But I also agree that there are such.
00:00:57
Speaker
too many barriers to entry.
00:00:59
Speaker
Like one of the things I've discussed with a funeral home recently is, for example, I would absolutely love to go and get myself certified as a funeral director that I could help sign off things or especially during COVID that I could have helped to provide assistance.
00:01:14
Speaker
However,
00:01:15
Speaker
I have no interest in embalming a body.
00:01:18
Speaker
I don't want to have anything to do with the anatomy part of the course.
00:01:22
Speaker
And so that's a whole section.
00:01:24
Speaker
But you can't do one without doing it all.
00:01:27
Speaker
And I think that's crazy because I feel like, for example, as an event planner coming into the industry 10 years ago,
00:01:35
Speaker
with no experience at the time and just wanting to get in here and, you know, roll up my sleeves and let's go.
00:01:42
Speaker
I couldn't do a whole lot of anything.
00:01:43
Speaker
I could in Ireland, but here I can't.
00:01:45
Speaker
There's so many strict regulations that I can't touch anything.
00:01:49
Speaker
I can't hold certain things.
00:01:52
Speaker
You can't sign anything.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yep.
00:01:55
Speaker
And, you know, it's sad because there are some states that allow the dual license.
00:02:00
Speaker
In fact, California, you just need to
00:02:03
Speaker
take a test.
00:02:04
Speaker
I don't think you even need to have a degree or, or anything.
00:02:07
Speaker
What the, I mean, it's not easy.
00:02:10
Speaker
I mean, they do make things, I mean, the crematory manager test to, um, open your own crematory in California is, I have one client, I think he failed it four times before he passed.
00:02:21
Speaker
He's a smart guy, but God, I hope he's not listening.
00:02:27
Speaker
Name and shame, name and shame.
00:02:29
Speaker
But, um, you're still at camp Frankie Campbell's doing, um,
00:02:33
Speaker
When you told me you did that, how many ever years ago, I thought this was, this is perfect for you.
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:40
Speaker
But it does tie your hands with a lot of stuff because the families, you're bonding with those families, but yet you got to bring someone in to, I don't know.
00:02:51
Speaker
politics it's all politics absolutely it's all politics yeah and it's it is there's i mean we could again do a whole other podcast on just the politics that are in the funeral community and even for me as somebody who who's over in the united states the states are not united that is one thing i know for sure they are the most ununited states of america a new name
00:03:15
Speaker
And it's been that way since 1776.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
COVID-19 and Regulatory Challenges in the Funeral Industry
00:03:19
Speaker
Beat your ass.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, that was one thing that I just couldn't, I found unfathomable, was that each state, funeral-wise, was so different, different requirements, that even during COVID, didn't they have to release some sort of a, like the state had to allow funeral directors from other states, they'd come to New York, wasn't that a thing?
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, they had to, I mean, there was no reciprocity for licensure.
00:03:46
Speaker
I even have a friend in Canada that was going to come as part of one of the disaster services, Kenyon, and the hoops he would have had to have jumped through, and then he just said, you know what, they've got enough people, I'm not even going to do it.
00:04:01
Speaker
And he's been to Haiti, he's been to he worked the UPS flight that went down in Bagram.
00:04:09
Speaker
He's done plane crashes in
00:04:11
Speaker
like the Arctic circle.
00:04:13
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:04:15
Speaker
I can give you this info for sure.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:18
Speaker
And you had an ER person as well, actually.
00:04:21
Speaker
An ER person.
00:04:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:22
Speaker
His wife is an ER nurse.
00:04:24
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:04:25
Speaker
So, uh, maybe.
00:04:25
Speaker
Did I already tell you about him?
00:04:28
Speaker
He told me about her, I think.
00:04:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:31
Speaker
Um, you know, he would be good too.
00:04:33
Speaker
And, um, he, he has a really good perspective.
00:04:39
Speaker
And he is a funeral director.
00:04:42
Speaker
So a lot of times we'll not clash because we're like brothers.
00:04:46
Speaker
So you know how that goes.
00:04:48
Speaker
He will have to stop and
The Importance of Perspective in Discussions
00:04:50
Speaker
think.
00:04:50
Speaker
And then he's like, and I just think that's kind of cool that, you know, we have to be able to listen no matter what all of this stuff that we're talking about.
00:05:02
Speaker
It's just this.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:05:05
Speaker
You might not agree with somebody.
00:05:07
Speaker
I mean, one of my, I'm such an argumentative person, but one of the things I've learned in the last 10 years is just, you know, if you feel like it's getting too frictional, I agree.
00:05:16
Speaker
Let's just agree to disagree because I feel like we're not going to, and that's okay.
00:05:20
Speaker
That's okay.
00:05:21
Speaker
Just move along.
00:05:21
Speaker
Nothing wrong with it at all.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:24
Speaker
And you know, I always say, as long as you listen to what I have to say and consider it.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
And you don't have to agree after that.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker
That's okay.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:32
Speaker
I mean, I've got weird ideas that people think I'm crazy and you know what?
00:05:37
Speaker
That's fine.
00:05:38
Speaker
You don't have to agree with me.
00:05:40
Speaker
It's true.
00:05:41
Speaker
Larry, you, so you consult with crematoriums and funeral directors on how to increase their cremation business or how to.
Consulting on Funeral Home Processes
00:05:52
Speaker
Well, it's, it's everything, everything from, I want to start a crematory.
00:05:59
Speaker
I have a funeral home, I want to start a crematory.
00:06:01
Speaker
I have a cemetery, I want to start a crematory.
00:06:04
Speaker
I don't want a crematory, but my cremation rate is 70%.
00:06:08
Speaker
I need you to help me with chain of custody so that my liability is reduced.
00:06:14
Speaker
I do this thing with the Cremation Association of North America.
00:06:17
Speaker
I'm a member benefit.
00:06:18
Speaker
You get a half an hour free with me, which, you know, it ends up being more than that.
00:06:22
Speaker
But to develop an iron... No, I definitely don't believe that.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:29
Speaker
But to develop an ironclad standard operating procedure, including ID protocols and chain of custody, because the minute someone accuses you of cremating the wrong person, and this is whether or not you have your own unit, you cannot prove whose ashes, whose cremated remains are in that container.
00:06:52
Speaker
There's no DNA left.
00:06:54
Speaker
There's no way to do it.
00:06:57
Speaker
So the only way is your policies, your procedures, the fact that you implemented them, the fact that you enforce them and the fact that you save the documentation and adapt when you need to adapt.
00:07:12
Speaker
That's probative in court, but that is so unheard of in our space from the
00:07:21
Speaker
Sixth generation funeral home.
00:07:23
Speaker
I mean, I had a client who said, oh, Larry, we don't need the ID.
00:07:26
Speaker
We know everybody who's in our care.
00:07:28
Speaker
We're a small town.
00:07:30
Speaker
And I just went, are you kidding me right now?
00:07:34
Speaker
Well, we put a sticky note on all the cremation bodies.
00:07:40
Speaker
I'm not making that up.
00:07:42
Speaker
I believe it.
00:07:43
Speaker
I just don't think our listeners will.
00:07:45
Speaker
With all due respect, this firm hired me to fix all that.
00:07:49
Speaker
And they are a smooth running ship right now.
00:07:53
Speaker
Well, and here's the thing, in their defense,
00:07:58
Speaker
This was how it was done.
00:08:00
Speaker
We have to remember, it's a bit like we were saying earlier, it's a bit like the internet.
00:08:05
Speaker
When the internet first started, I mean, it was www.
00:08:09
Speaker
I mean, it was called the World Wide Web.
00:08:12
Speaker
It evolved so much.
00:08:15
Speaker
Now we've got to protect this legislation.
00:08:18
Speaker
I mean, I don't know how many terms and conditions I click sign yet.
00:08:21
Speaker
We don't read any of it.
00:08:23
Speaker
Don't read any of them.
00:08:24
Speaker
So absolutely, like every other industry, it's evolved.
00:08:29
Speaker
A sticky note and knowing you had Joe and John and Mary and Jim Bob and whatever in the back of your truck.
00:08:37
Speaker
It's from County Cork.
00:08:40
Speaker
But, you know, listen, I get it.
00:08:43
Speaker
Coming from a small island, I get it.
00:08:46
Speaker
I mean, I know I'm a dub from the city, but I know in rural Ireland, absolutely, they 100% knew because their turnover was probably maybe one body a week or, you know.
00:09:00
Speaker
So that's one of the biggest things and I really enjoy doing that because I get to problem solve and I get to
00:09:06
Speaker
enlightened.
00:09:07
Speaker
And a lot of times I've changed my opinion of what I think should happen based on the culture of the funeral home or the cemetery.
00:09:16
Speaker
I do a lot of air quality permitting, testifying, if you will, zoning.
00:09:23
Speaker
One of the hardest things is to convince community that crematory is not going to cause mercury poisoning and the emissions are not
00:09:32
Speaker
human remains and all this other stuff.
00:09:35
Speaker
So I do stuff like that.
Innovations in Body Disposal Technologies
00:09:38
Speaker
How do you feel about all of these new forms of disposal, body disposal?
00:09:45
Speaker
So, you know, how, like, obviously we've got Katrina in Seattle with her composting and we have the alkaline hydrolysis, which has about a hundred different names.
00:09:57
Speaker
I can never keep track.
00:09:58
Speaker
Biochremation, water cremation, all of the different ones.
00:10:01
Speaker
Obviously, you know, my background was with Eco Legacy, but what is your...
00:10:06
Speaker
opinion on cremation versus them or cremation evolving into them?
00:10:12
Speaker
Is it something you're open to?
00:10:13
Speaker
Do you just, or I'll let you.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:15
Speaker
And, and, you know, it's funny you mentioned Katrina.
00:10:18
Speaker
She wasn't the first to get licensed for the composting.
00:10:22
Speaker
I forget the guy's name, but I was on a, basically a panel discussion with him, with some folks at Worsham, Lily and Brian, and I can't remember who else.
00:10:34
Speaker
And we kind of gave him
00:10:36
Speaker
some advice and he actually got his license to operate and I don't know that Katrina is licensed yet.
00:10:43
Speaker
I hope she is.
00:10:45
Speaker
I have no problem with new technology of any form.
00:10:50
Speaker
As long as it's transparent, saying that alkaline hydrolysis is a gentle, it's water.
00:10:59
Speaker
Come on guys, there's chemicals involved.
00:11:02
Speaker
You've got to disclose that because
00:11:05
Speaker
A, it's ethically the right thing to do.
00:11:07
Speaker
And B, if you say it's just a gentle heated water bath and they find out that you've put lye and shook them up, you're going to get sued and you're going to lose.
00:11:21
Speaker
But I have no problem with the technologies.
00:11:25
Speaker
Echo Legacy, I thought, was brilliant.
00:11:27
Speaker
The issue bringing that here wasn't necessarily the method of disposition, but
00:11:33
Speaker
the fact that you had multiple bodies in one unit.
00:11:36
Speaker
So that would have been a hurdle, even though they're separate and there's no way you can mix them.
00:11:41
Speaker
The politics, right?
00:11:43
Speaker
It says in our bylaws that, you know, so I absolutely embrace anything new.
00:11:51
Speaker
And if it's a success, especially if the consumer isn't, if it's a top down innovation, it's much harder to get the consumers to understand it.
00:12:03
Speaker
As you know, it took alkaline hydrolysis so long.
00:12:08
Speaker
And there's still only 22 states, I think, 22 that allow it.
00:12:13
Speaker
Again, back to politics.
00:12:15
Speaker
There's nothing, I mean, if it's a safe technology and if it's transparent and it doesn't hurt the earth and it does what it needs to do, I'm all for it.
00:12:26
Speaker
I actually am starting a cremation program
00:12:31
Speaker
equipment company that I don't want to really talk about this too much, but it's not going to be powered by fossil fuels.
00:12:42
Speaker
So there'll be no hydrocarbons cremating the body and there will be flame.
00:12:48
Speaker
It's a combustion situation, but not burning hydrocarbons and can be sustainable sources of power that would create a negative carbon footprint.
00:13:02
Speaker
So that within the next six months to a year may be a reality in the U S and you know, I'm all for better ways to do things.
Future of Cremation Technologies
00:13:13
Speaker
So that was a really long answer to your question.
00:13:18
Speaker
And I apologize, but I really did want to explain where I'm coming from because, you know, at first I thought you can't call that cremation, but yeah, you can.
00:13:28
Speaker
Hmm.
00:13:30
Speaker
And when you said, is that what it's going to evolve into?
00:13:33
Speaker
I absolutely know that the technology, as it increases in efficiency, 20 years from now, God only knows how we're going to be disposing of bodies.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:47
Speaker
And it does, you know, a bit like burial.
00:13:49
Speaker
We're running out of burial space.
00:13:51
Speaker
The population, you know, we've got to go somewhere.
00:13:55
Speaker
And so the more environmentally friendly way we can do that, I guess, the better.
00:14:00
Speaker
And just for Joe Public, when a body is cremated, because one of the things that I found fascinating was that, like, so New York doesn't have a crematorium within Manhattan.
00:14:13
Speaker
It's illegal.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, for pollution reasons.
00:14:16
Speaker
And yet London, who I would always consider New York and London quite similar in terms of city style, has a crematorium.
00:14:25
Speaker
The City of London crematory.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:29
Speaker
And so the idea that Joe Public out there could be breathing in the dead.
00:14:35
Speaker
But that's not true.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:37
Speaker
OK, so talk a bit about that, because that can be a fear mongering thing.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah, and it definitely is and I won't get too technical because chemistry is involved and I hate chemistry and a lot of people hate chemistry But when the body is on fire if you will process called combustion is happening where it's being broken down the body the cells in the body are being destroyed basically and when you burn something you create gases and
00:15:13
Speaker
smoke and flame and lots and lots of gas because everything gets vaporized.
00:15:21
Speaker
In cremation, those gases we call the products of combustion, and we actually re-combust those gases again in a second chamber within that unit at a hotter temperature even.
00:15:36
Speaker
And what happens in that chamber is everything is diluted down to the atomic level.
00:15:42
Speaker
molecules say a hydrocarbon say methane natural gas is CH4.
00:15:49
Speaker
Well, those molecules split and you have carbon and four hydrogens.
00:15:54
Speaker
What we bring into the game is air, oxygen.
00:15:59
Speaker
You need oxygen for combustion and you also need it for perfect combustion.
00:16:04
Speaker
And what perfect combustion is basically the carbon hooks up with two oxygens in this second chamber and the hydrogen
00:16:13
Speaker
Two hydrogens hook up with an oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapor.
00:16:19
Speaker
Nitrogen is just nitrogen.
00:16:21
Speaker
It goes out of the stack.
00:16:22
Speaker
We breathe it in every day.
00:16:23
Speaker
It's not harmful.
00:16:25
Speaker
Our air is mostly nitrogen.
00:16:29
Speaker
So when stuff comes out of the stack and you can see it and it's black, smoke, all that is is carbon.
00:16:38
Speaker
It's not the dead.
00:16:40
Speaker
It used to be.
00:16:41
Speaker
but it's been transformed into nothing but an element off of the periodic chart of elements.
00:16:50
Speaker
Right.
00:16:52
Speaker
So, you know, I get really not offended, but I get upset when I see articles like there was one out of Southern California.
00:17:00
Speaker
I won't say what city Cortez where the fire chief actually told the media that
00:17:09
Speaker
yes, I can confirm that billowing black smoke is human remains.
00:17:14
Speaker
And the community went absolutely apeshit.
00:17:18
Speaker
And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:17:24
Speaker
I love this phrase from a colleague of mine here in Tulsa.
00:17:27
Speaker
He says, that's your ass talking because your mouth knows better.
00:17:31
Speaker
I hope that answers your question without getting too technical, but this is a clean technology thing.
00:17:38
Speaker
We're not even regulated by the federal government.
00:17:41
Speaker
And the only reason that states regulate it is because of the myths about it.
00:17:46
Speaker
Incinerators cause pollution, but this type of incinerator is not, it's only designed for human and animal remains.
00:17:55
Speaker
Right.
00:17:56
Speaker
And organic stuff turns into other stuff during combustion.
00:18:04
Speaker
So carbon dioxide and water, the inorganic stuff,
00:18:08
Speaker
is dust at the end, and that actually will settle into that secondary chamber so it does not go out of the stack.
00:18:17
Speaker
A fireplace puts out more particles than, I mean, a fireplace could put out about half a pound an hour of dust.
00:18:26
Speaker
Wow.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yeah, a wood-burning fireplace.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:30
Speaker
And a crematory, nothing, hardly.
00:18:33
Speaker
Like.02, I think, is a good emissions factor for that.
00:18:38
Speaker
Right.
00:18:39
Speaker
And then the remains that are left after the body has been disintegrated completely, you're left with what looks like sort of dust, bone
Cultural Perceptions of Cremated Remains
00:18:50
Speaker
fragment.
00:18:50
Speaker
And some people I've noticed are quite shocked sometimes when they have the larger bone particles.
00:18:56
Speaker
And then I know from our own cremation jewellery line,
00:18:59
Speaker
And I know even from we did a podcast with Parting Stone with Justin and we were talking about sort of the different colours that when you reintroduce heat to remains, whether a solidified remain is in his rocks or my glass jewellery, that it adds its own colours, which I find beautiful and fascinating.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah, me too.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah, but maybe could you talk a bit more about the remains and the myth or not that you can bury them and they can turn into a tree.
00:19:30
Speaker
Okay, that's wonderful.
00:19:33
Speaker
I love that.
00:19:34
Speaker
I didn't know where you were going until you said tree.
00:19:36
Speaker
I will touch on the cremated remains coloring and parting stone, brilliant.
00:19:42
Speaker
I'm on his board.
00:19:44
Speaker
I love Justin.
00:19:45
Speaker
I have a call with him tomorrow.
00:19:47
Speaker
Ah, tell him if I like.
00:19:48
Speaker
I will.
00:19:50
Speaker
It's just such a lovely idea because you can have permanent memorialization and not be in an urn.
00:19:58
Speaker
You could put them in the garden or give them away.
00:20:01
Speaker
It's just, I love it.
00:20:02
Speaker
I'm not here to advertise for him, but it's a worthy thing.
00:20:06
Speaker
Anyway, the biggest common color is green.
00:20:11
Speaker
You see a hint of green on the cremated remains.
00:20:15
Speaker
That's clearly the one to
00:20:19
Speaker
75% Irish that everybody is.
00:20:21
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:23
Speaker
Of course.
00:20:24
Speaker
I tell that joke every time I present a training class.
00:20:29
Speaker
You know what that means?
00:20:30
Speaker
They're Irish.
00:20:31
Speaker
Well, because I swear to God, and this is totally unrelated, but you know how I feel about this, but every single American I ever meet tells me there's some part of Irish lineage, right?
00:20:42
Speaker
So I just turned around and I'm like, seriously, for the tiny island of Ireland, did we just go at it like rabbits and procreate the entire world?
00:20:49
Speaker
I mean, it feels like it.
00:20:51
Speaker
Everyone wants to be Irish.
00:20:53
Speaker
That's it right there.
00:20:55
Speaker
It's showing up.
00:20:58
Speaker
It's all about the lucky charms.
00:21:04
Speaker
Cremated remains are not skeleton.
00:21:08
Speaker
They're not bone fragments.
00:21:12
Speaker
Scientifically, they're calcium, they're phosphates, sulfates, and hard metals.
00:21:18
Speaker
Beryllium, manganese, all that stuff, all those elements on the periodic table that we can't pronounce that are part of our bodies that will not vaporize any further because they're elemental.
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, you can't take a carbon atom and turn it into something else unless you split that atom and you know what happens then getting into nuclear fission.
00:21:41
Speaker
So we're going to have 40 podcasts by the time it's done.
00:21:48
Speaker
Emotionally, that set of remains is still the person.
00:21:55
Speaker
So there's a dichotomy scientifically.
00:21:57
Speaker
It's nothing but calcium, but emotionally to the family,
00:22:00
Speaker
That's my mother.
00:22:01
Speaker
That's dad.
00:22:02
Speaker
That's cousin Jim Bob.
00:22:05
Speaker
So we have to take that into consideration as we're transporting, as we're returning, as that's a person to the family, even though we know it's not.
00:22:18
Speaker
Some cultures, for Joe Public, we don't take them out and put them in an urn in the United States.
00:22:26
Speaker
Every state has a law.
00:22:28
Speaker
that says they have to be reduced to an ash type consistency.
00:22:35
Speaker
I don't know why that is.
00:22:36
Speaker
Obviously you're not going to want to scatter something that looks like a femur in your favorite jogging trail because CSI 9-1-1.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:49
Speaker
But many cultures, especially, um, some Asian cultures do not want them to be pulverized.
00:22:57
Speaker
They want them back.
00:22:58
Speaker
They want to search through them.
00:23:00
Speaker
I went to Japan with NFDA, the National Funeral Service Delegation.
00:23:07
Speaker
And the last thing that we saw was the crematorium.
00:23:11
Speaker
And for those that don't know me, I'm six foot nine.
00:23:14
Speaker
I weigh 300 and some pounds.
00:23:17
Speaker
I'm a big boy.
00:23:18
Speaker
And a Japanese tour bus is not my friend.
00:23:22
Speaker
So by the time we got to the crematorium, I was mad.
00:23:26
Speaker
It's been five days of Japanese tour bus in and out, in and out.
00:23:31
Speaker
I needed a drink.
00:23:32
Speaker
I needed food.
00:23:34
Speaker
We walked into this crematorium and there's probably, I don't know, 20 units and they're all gilded, beautiful.
00:23:43
Speaker
And I see this stainless steel bar cart with chopsticks on it.
00:23:47
Speaker
And I thought, hot diggity dog.
00:23:50
Speaker
We're getting heavy apps, martinis, hopefully.
00:23:53
Speaker
Oh no.
00:23:55
Speaker
They put the cremated remains on these carts and use the chopsticks to sort through to find the hyoid bone, which is good luck.
00:24:07
Speaker
Mortifying, right?
00:24:09
Speaker
Wow.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:11
Speaker
So even worse, in Vietnam, they want as much of the skeleton as possible.
00:24:19
Speaker
So they remove some places, mostly in the north is what I've been told,
00:24:25
Speaker
Some places will remove the bones as they finish.
00:24:29
Speaker
And they're put in a rectangular ceramic urn in order.
00:24:35
Speaker
So the head's at the top.
00:24:37
Speaker
There's rib bones.
00:24:39
Speaker
The arms, you can tell.
00:24:41
Speaker
And it's all contorted so it fits into a box like this big.
00:24:44
Speaker
I can send you a picture.
00:24:46
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:24:47
Speaker
For the YouTube, this would be incredible.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, just remind me.
00:24:51
Speaker
I'll send it for sure.
00:24:52
Speaker
Mortifying.
00:24:54
Speaker
They take out the bones that are done and wait for the rest.
00:24:59
Speaker
And it's typical.
00:25:03
Speaker
Those of the public that think, you know, we're archaic and, you know,
00:25:11
Speaker
We should compost and do nothing else.
00:25:13
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with that technology.
00:25:15
Speaker
We do it pretty good.
00:25:17
Speaker
Or well, I should say.
00:25:20
Speaker
To be honest, that just goes to show, case in point, that there are just so many different options out there.
00:25:26
Speaker
And, you know, you could get a Japanese family come to a funeral home in the United States of America tomorrow and request that.
00:25:34
Speaker
And, you know, who are we as a community to say, no, that's wrong.
00:25:37
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:25:38
Speaker
So it's fascinating.
00:25:40
Speaker
I love hearing about different... God, I thought I knew a lot, but there's still so much more.
00:25:45
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:25:46
Speaker
Me too.
00:25:47
Speaker
Me too.
00:25:47
Speaker
And I'm twice your age.
00:25:49
Speaker
Well, not twice.
00:25:50
Speaker
I'm a little older than you.
00:25:56
Speaker
Did they at least give you a martini to digest?
00:26:02
Speaker
No.
00:26:04
Speaker
We had to wait until we got back to the hotel, which kind of stopped.
00:26:07
Speaker
But...
00:26:08
Speaker
It was a phenomenal trip.
Learning from Cultural Funeral Practices in New York
00:26:10
Speaker
They went to a flower factory, a funeral flower arranger, and some of the families will spend $20,000, $30,000 on a floral arrangement.
00:26:21
Speaker
Wow.
00:26:22
Speaker
On just one?
00:26:24
Speaker
One.
00:26:26
Speaker
Massive.
00:26:27
Speaker
These things are massive.
00:26:29
Speaker
Wow.
00:26:31
Speaker
I may have a picture, too, of that.
00:26:32
Speaker
That's incredible.
00:26:34
Speaker
I can send it.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it blows me away and you know, it goes, you know, we can talk about that value proposition, you know, the implied value, you know, a lot of it is well, Blanche down the street had it.
00:26:47
Speaker
So, you know, my mom's going to have it, you know, keeping up with the Joneses.
00:26:52
Speaker
Oh, and I'm where I'm at right now is absolutely all of that.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:58
Speaker
I want what he had.
00:27:00
Speaker
I want what she has.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:01
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:27:02
Speaker
But I also, the one thing that does fascinate me about living in New York City now and working in the funeral community is the variety.
00:27:08
Speaker
It's such a melting pot.
00:27:09
Speaker
It's such a melting pot.
00:27:11
Speaker
I mean, I'm a celebrant as well.
00:27:12
Speaker
And I've been, I have officiated services for Japanese, for Chinese, where I've had to learn their customs.
00:27:20
Speaker
What would they like me to do?
00:27:22
Speaker
I'll never forget.
00:27:22
Speaker
There was one service and they handed me a bell and some Chinese money.
00:27:26
Speaker
and a pot and I was like I don't know what exactly I'm supposed to do with this.
00:27:32
Speaker
They didn't tell me what to do so you know I could have gotten on Google and looked it up and you know but to me the way I operate is have a conversation with the family so I you know I went up to them and I said what exactly would you like me to do and here was the shocking and beautiful thing about it was they weren't sure themselves they just knew it was a part of what they needed to have
00:27:55
Speaker
that it represented funerals in there and they didn't know.
00:27:58
Speaker
So I said, okay, well then let's figure this out together.
00:28:01
Speaker
How would you like, what would your ideal scenario be?
00:28:03
Speaker
And I put forward suggestions and they put forward suggestions and, you know, then I dung the bell out, you know, and it was very interesting.
00:28:12
Speaker
You know, awesome.
00:28:14
Speaker
I love the celebrant movement.
00:28:16
Speaker
I too am a certified celebrant and the whole premise of just like you said, that family meeting is what Glenda said.
00:28:25
Speaker
one of the founders of the celebrate movement says all you're doing is listening and asking questions and molding your service to incorporate what they want, which I would even say what they need.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:41
Speaker
And I love that story.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, and it really is, it's just about being there for them.
00:28:46
Speaker
And what, to me, that's what funeral directors should be doing as well.
00:28:51
Speaker
You know, is, is that's what everybody in that industry should be doing is just there to serve as the family and find out, dig a little bit deeper, find out what they want and go from there, you know?
00:29:03
Speaker
Just before, because I know we're wrapping it up and I want to keep you on forever, poor Larry.
00:29:08
Speaker
Not at all.
00:29:09
Speaker
I read an article this morning about a place in California, actually, Boyle Heights Cemetery.
Ethical Implications of Unclaimed Cremated Remains
00:29:15
Speaker
I'm just looking at my notes to see what the name is.
00:29:17
Speaker
It was a classic case, and I just want to know what your thoughts are on it, where they had 1,500 people who died in, I think, the year 2017.
00:29:26
Speaker
They had all their remains and they weren't being picked up by family and they had a three-year death.
00:29:30
Speaker
deadline that you know they weren't picked up that they were going to put them into a mass grave at the cremated remains and have a service for them what is I know my thoughts on it as a memorial planner but what are your thoughts on a having a deadline like three years you know from a funeral and a business perspective and be maybe what are your thoughts on families and them leaving remains there and the ethical question of that and maybe
00:30:00
Speaker
what your thought would be, Tim?
00:30:01
Speaker
Well, this is a great question because it's something especially for Joe Public because they would never think about this being an issue.
00:30:09
Speaker
I do not have a funeral home, so I do not have abandoned cremated remains.
00:30:14
Speaker
I never and still don't fully understand the bitch about storing them.
00:30:22
Speaker
You know what?
00:30:22
Speaker
It's a cabinet.
00:30:24
Speaker
It's a fireproof cabinet.
00:30:26
Speaker
If you're going to get two cabinets, get two cabinets.
00:30:30
Speaker
If the law says you can scatter them after a year, as long as you've sent out three registered letters, you know what?
00:30:37
Speaker
That's not what we do.
00:30:39
Speaker
We do what we do for the families.
00:30:41
Speaker
And if they're not ready to get them, even if they'll never be ready to get them, you can't scatter them because they will never have that option again.
00:30:52
Speaker
Burying them, fine.
00:30:54
Speaker
I don't understand why they can't sit, you know, sitting in a vault versus sitting in a fireplace
00:31:00
Speaker
proof cabinet in your funeral home, it's our obligation to look after those remains.
00:31:06
Speaker
So do I have a bit of a different perspective about it?
00:31:10
Speaker
Probably.
00:31:11
Speaker
When I train or instruct or teach, I always recommend, even if the law says you can scatter, never scatter because that's when the family's going to come back and say, we're ready now.
00:31:25
Speaker
Or I was in prison for 20 years.
00:31:27
Speaker
I need to get my mother.
00:31:29
Speaker
And
00:31:30
Speaker
you're going to get sued.
00:31:31
Speaker
Even if the law stands on your side, the juries are going to, I don't want to say convict, but they're going to find for the grieving person over the, especially if you're a corporate place, I've done expert witness stuff for a CI.
00:31:47
Speaker
I mean, it's like a new cash cap funeral service because that emotional part of it turns into an ethical thing and ethics aren't the law.
00:31:58
Speaker
but they're becoming more effective of the law.
00:32:02
Speaker
So again, another long, long answer to a question.
00:32:08
Speaker
Um, I just think if it were me, I would keep them.
00:32:12
Speaker
And Paula masters calls it the, the cabinet of misfit cremated remains, you know, like the Island of misfit toys.
00:32:21
Speaker
It sounds like something from Harry Potter.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
It's actually from, uh,
00:32:27
Speaker
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, the movie.
00:32:29
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:32:30
Speaker
I'll have to watch that.
00:32:31
Speaker
With the heatizer and the, oh, tangential guy I am.
00:32:39
Speaker
Does it really hurt that you have a cabinet of cremated remains there waiting in case?
00:32:44
Speaker
I know everyone says, oh, it's the liability, the liability.
00:32:47
Speaker
Come on.
00:32:49
Speaker
It is interesting.
00:32:50
Speaker
I think there's less if you have more control over it.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:32:54
Speaker
I do think it is interesting.
00:32:56
Speaker
And just on that, I actually, as we've already made clear, I'm not a registered funeral director.
00:33:03
Speaker
And so there's certain things, limitations that I can and can't do.
00:33:08
Speaker
And I, as a memorial planner, have traveled to different states with remains.
00:33:15
Speaker
of that I'm holding a celebration of life.
00:33:17
Speaker
So I've been asked and it's a very rewarding experience, but a very daunting one because you are holding onto somebody's lifeline.
00:33:25
Speaker
You know, their absolute loved one is.
00:33:27
Speaker
So I treat it as if it was my own.
00:33:29
Speaker
Equally, I was fascinated with the chain of events that
00:33:33
Speaker
you know, the family had to bestow upon me that I am legally allowed to take these remains from a funeral home and transport them.
00:33:43
Speaker
And so that, you know, again, I guess we're down to politics and, you know, and it does definitely make sense because you could
00:33:51
Speaker
have anybody coming in to pick up remains then and what happens there.
00:33:55
Speaker
So it is interesting about I guess we're nearly back to people being afraid to speak up or to do something different because they might get their hands slapped by the law by the else or whatever.
00:34:06
Speaker
But in this particular cemetery, I thought 1500 was quite a lot of remains.
00:34:11
Speaker
So when you think about that, I mean, and if that's just for one year, that is an awful lot of remains to keep housing year on year.
00:34:20
Speaker
It's shocking to me and sad to me that the families, you know, that's nearly the, I guess, the human side of this as well, that they don't.
00:34:29
Speaker
They didn't pick up their loved one.
00:34:30
Speaker
And that could be for multiple reasons, as you just said.
00:34:33
Speaker
Right.
00:34:33
Speaker
Just incapacitated in that moment that it's, you know, who knows?
00:34:39
Speaker
We really don't know.
00:34:40
Speaker
You know, and this is back to the conversation we had earlier where it's until you know both sides.
00:34:45
Speaker
There's always three sides to a story, you know, one, two and the actual truth.
00:34:50
Speaker
But it is, yeah, I probably would agree with you on that, that I would, as a funeral home, try and hold on to them for as long as I could.
00:34:59
Speaker
And yeah, burying them, but I mean, just scattering them in a mass grave.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:04
Speaker
I'd definitely say no scattering.
00:35:06
Speaker
If you can recover them and you don't want to keep them in the building, to me, that's a happy medium, if you will.
00:35:16
Speaker
As long as you can recover them,
00:35:18
Speaker
for, you know, and you may have 1500 and only two of them will end up getting returned in your lifetime, but that's two happy families that paid you, you know what they did.
00:35:31
Speaker
So, yeah, absolutely.
00:35:33
Speaker
All right.
00:35:33
Speaker
Well, uh, we'll end on that note.
00:35:36
Speaker
Uh, thank you so much, Larry, for it was nothing but fun.
00:35:41
Speaker
I hope, I hope I did okay for your, uh,
00:35:46
Speaker
No, that was an hour and a half, which is amazing.
00:35:55
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening to the Glam Reaper podcast.
00:35:58
Speaker
It has been something I've been working on and muddling with for over two years now.
00:36:02
Speaker
So I appreciate your time to listen in.
00:36:04
Speaker
Every episode will have a new guest we hope you will find interesting as they tell their own story.
00:36:10
Speaker
So stay tuned for the next episode or have a look through the Glam Reaper episode collection.
00:36:16
Speaker
Find your nugget of gold as we talk all things life, love and loss with a dash from the funeral world.
00:36:24
Speaker
Until next time.