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65. Adjust And Reroute- With Rachel Engstrom
67 Plays4 years ago
Rachel Engstrom M.S.W., C.H.E.S has written a groundbreaking memoir/self-book on her experience as a young cancer wife then widow. With the increasing number of young women and men becoming widows/widowers due to not only cancer and serious illnesses, but also now Covid 19, this resource is needed more now than ever. Rachel shares her journey in a raw and honest way, while providing step by step resources to help you navigate your own journey. Never before has there been a combination of the personal grit of the healthcare journey, along with steps on how to navigate treatment, diagnosis, the ins and outs of hospital life, employment, finances, insurance, self care, grief and loss and much more.
In this interview, Rachel shares how her husband was 35 when he was diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia. On their 8th wedding anniversary, just a year and a half after his diagnosis, he was admitted to the hospital again. He had lots of treatments including bone marrow transplant. Then 2 days after Rachel’s 31st birthday, she had to hold him as he was taken off life support.
She also shares about how she had endometriosis, and just 6 months after her husband’s passing, she had to undergo surgery. Now, not only was she grieving the death of her husband, but also the idea of ever being able to birth a child.
Part of her grief journey was writing a blog about her process and then this became a way to help others. She also joined the Leukemia Society Team and Training, where she trained to run a half marathon to raise funds towards this organization. This became one of her biggest outlets as well as her support group with people that could relate to what she was going through. Currently she is running for the Woman of The Year for the state of Minnesota to raise money for the Leukemia Society.
You can find “Wife, Widow, Now What? How I Navigated the Cancer World and How You Can Too,” here
https://www.amazon.com/Wife-Widow-Now-What-Navigated/dp/B08KBV5DBL/ref=nodl_#immersive-view_1601477867868 ,
as well as follow her on social media here: https://m.facebook.com/wife.widow.now.what/
Here is the Website To donate https://pages.lls.org/mwoy/mn/MN21/
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest or for coaching: http://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
Music: http://www.rinaldisound.com
Logo: http://www.pamelawinningham.com
Production: Carlos Andres Londono
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Transcript
Impact of Checking In
00:00:01
Speaker
I think the most valuable thing someone can do is just be there and listen. It's free, doesn't cost anything, doesn't take much time. You know, one thing that I would do...
00:00:14
Speaker
You know, now we've been all stuck inside because of COVID, but it's really easy on the way home from work or while you're making dinner or whatever to just call someone and say, hey, how are you doing? And then, you know, just that 10 minute check in can make their life dramatically different if they were having a bad day.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello and welcome to grief, gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:43
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:59
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Meet Rachel Engstrom
00:01:22
Speaker
Welcome to today's episode. Today, I am chatting with Rachel Engstrom, and we will be going on a journey with her, learning about her grief journey and everything in between, as I call it, to the gray in between component and all the gratitude that comes from that. So welcome, Rachel, to the podcast. And I was just apologizing to Rachel because I wrote down
00:01:50
Speaker
the wrong time on my calendar. And she was patient enough to wait for me here on the on the app. So first off, thank you again, Rachel, for that. Oh, of course. Happy Friday. It's Friday. It's just a wonderful time that it's Friday. Well, thank you. OK, so tell us a little where do you live? Yes, I live in Minnesota just outside of the Twin Cities, outside of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
00:02:19
Speaker
I've lived here for 20 and a half years. I moved here, I'll be 39 next month. I moved here when I was 18 to go to school at the University of Minnesota, not knowing one person. And I ended up creating quite an amazing life here. Oh, that's wonderful.
Life Before Illness
00:02:35
Speaker
Now, so tell us then about your husband and then just the journey also of your family.
00:02:46
Speaker
of what you said. Sure, sure. So sophomore year of college first semester, I went to a birthday party of mutual friends of ours and I met this guy that was tall and cute and he was almost about seven years older than me. I thought, oh no way could I date him and we ended up dating and it was just wonderful. God totally had a plan and
00:03:13
Speaker
Three years later, when I was 22, right after I graduated from college, we got married and he worked nights. So I didn't get to see him a lot, um, Monday through Friday, but the time that we had was amazing. And, you know, I was just given this nice opportunity to have security in our marriage, who I was.
00:03:36
Speaker
Um, you know, my own life, work, friends, different things like that, while also being married, um, kind of doing my own thing and being very independent during the weeks when he was working.
Leukemia Diagnosis and Struggle
00:03:46
Speaker
And then when he was 35 and I was 28, um, he thought he had the flu one day and went to the doctor and three days later after different tests, we found out he had acute lymphoblastic leukemia. So.
00:04:02
Speaker
I had to learn very quickly how to navigate the cancer world, lots of trial and error. And within that, I learned so many different things, learned, you know, the different kinds of support that I needed. I didn't necessarily know the right kind of time, all those types of things. And then when he got much better, and then a year and a half after he was first diagnosed,
00:04:30
Speaker
We had to admit him again on actually that it was a Monday in the summer. It was on the day of our eighth wedding anniversary. We had to admit him to the hospital because he had relapsed. And after four grueling months of chemotherapy, the following January of 2013, he had a bone marrow transplant. And unfortunately, all of the chemo and radiation to prepare his body for that just
Loss and Restarting Life
00:04:58
Speaker
wrecked his kidneys and his bladder and his lungs and he was in the ICU twice and then ultimately his body just fell apart so when I was two days from turning 31 I was told I'm sorry and then on my 31st birthday so it was a Wednesday when I was told I was sorry April 17th and then on my birthday I turned 31 that Friday the 19th and they said you know we'll wait till Sunday and then on Sunday
00:05:27
Speaker
Um, you know, I'm just fresh 31 my entire adult life as I know it as being his wife. And then I had to hold him and sign the papers and take him off life support. And then I had to reboot my life and figure out who I am, you know.
00:05:44
Speaker
on my own starting over totally did not plan this. And yeah, it was very, very difficult. Wow. Wow.
Relating to Grief and Uncertainty
00:05:54
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that I know it's hard and also for the listeners I know sometimes it's also hard to
00:06:01
Speaker
listen to these, you know, details and stories and journeys, but at the same time, I know that many can relate to the uncertainty and all these different tests that come because that's why they tune into this episode, you know, to these podcasts, right? Rachel, so he was only then 38 when he passed away. 37,
Health Challenges and Decisions
00:06:26
Speaker
yeah. He was 37 when he died.
00:06:28
Speaker
And you had been married for eight years, had you had any children? No, actually. Along the way of him being ill, the year before he became sick, I was actually diagnosed with endometriosis, where I had ovarian cysts, cysts all over my reproductive organs. So I had my own surgeries and different things, actually, the day of his transplant.
00:06:55
Speaker
three days before that I had my own surgery to scrape off adhesions off like 26 sites. So we're both there medicated in pain home in the hospital. And then, um, six months after he died, I just threw in the towel and actually had a hysterectomy because I was in so much pain. I could barely walk. So that was another type of grief as well as I had to give up the dream of having kids, let alone my husband. So no, I did not have the luxury of having children.
00:07:23
Speaker
No, and I ask that. And by the way, I know that that's one of those things that when people are going through that journey of, you know, marriage, sometimes that's not a choice. That's not something they choose, right? They don't choose to have children. And sometimes it's just not.
00:07:38
Speaker
in their cards, and in your case, it wasn't. I apologize that I asked, but at the same time- Oh, no, it's fine. ... because if not, you wouldn't have not shared that you had also gone through that grief journey of the hysterectomy and all that. Thank you for sharing that.
Support Resources During Illness
00:07:56
Speaker
Now, here you are, young widow, and having to have gone through that, what were then some of these resources that you said, not only, of course, during the process of his diagnosis and his treatment, you had some type of support. Share the type of support that was out there and which ones worked for you. And then we'll also share then after then when he passed away, what are some of these tools you've used?
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. So the tricky thing was I was only 28 and you have to keep in mind, this is 10 years ago. And even though that doesn't sound that long ago, the amount of resources out there have, I'd want to say like quadrupled. Um, there were support groups and different things like that, but running back and forth, I was blessed enough that my parents, um, that at the time had been married 48 years or something like that, 45 years.
00:08:53
Speaker
They took shifts taking care of him, living with us full time. They swapped and took shifts. But running back and forth to the hospital and working was pretty much all I could do. So I didn't really have the luxury of having much time for support. What I did do is I'm not sure if it's something many people are familiar with. Here in Minnesota, there's a local company. It is a global
00:09:18
Speaker
thing, but there's a website called caring bridge. It's like caring bridge all squeezed together.org. So on there, you can sign up and you can create a blog so then you can do updates for all the supporters and then they'll get emailed a newsletter. So that was a really big thing for me. So in the book that I wrote, why photo now, I actually have my caring bridge post, my Facebook post, all of it in chronological order with.
00:09:46
Speaker
how i did it all so like when i'm navigating insurance when i'm trying to figure out treatment diagnosis how to support myself how to support him you know emotionally things like that and then people wanted to help ways to actually tangible ways to tell people how to help i have all of that so i wrote like this love story toolkit for people to navigate a serious illness and grief and loss because when i was going through it
Community and Virtual Support
00:10:10
Speaker
I was just doing the best that I could, but I was seriously burning the candle at both ends because just working full time, you know, we get home from work and we're tired, right? But let alone having to go home, let the dog out, then run back to the hospital and do all of those things. It wasn't until I joined the leukemia lymphoma society's team and training program a year after his diagnosis, where I had no athletic ability to start besides, you know, walking my dog.
00:10:38
Speaker
I trained to walk a half marathon and within that I raised $1,500 for blood cancer and trained alongside twice a week, Wednesday nights, and then like seven in the morning for a couple hours every Saturday with people who had friends, family members, things like that that had also gone through cancer.
00:10:58
Speaker
So within that, I was given a forum of people who got it might not be the same situation, might not be a spouse, but they authentically just wanted to listen to me vent or cry or talk or things like that. So I think for me, that was my biggest outlet. I did really have supportive friends and things like that, but the biggest support that I found was the team and training, but also within doing those social media posts.
00:11:25
Speaker
you know, when people did a heart or said we're praying for you or thinking of you of those things like that, that was like a virtual hug. So I think that that was a really good way and that's a really good way people can connect these days as well. So those were the basis of the big kinds of supports I had during that time.
00:11:44
Speaker
that you did that. And now you, you, you touched on several things. You touched on the fact that you started to do the, um, that you started to do these, okay. Was it like five Kates a full marathon? It was a half marathon. So it was 13 miles I had to train for. That's amazing. And now you still keep doing those and raising money on the, for these, correct?
00:12:06
Speaker
I actually, I haven't done that in several years, but right now I'm actually running for woman of the year for the state of Minnesota where I am trying to raise $60,000. I'm racing 10 weeks. I'm racing virtually not physical race against six other people to raise as much money as possible for blood cancer for the leukemia and the falls of society. So I'm still involved in the philanthropic part of trying to advocate for people. So there are less widows, there are less losses and things like that.
00:12:36
Speaker
That's wonderful. Thank you for doing that. That's a great way of bringing awareness. And now take us through the journey of your
Writing for Healing and Guidance
00:12:44
Speaker
book. So wife, widow, now what? Now what? Right? So it's like- Basically, you just kind of like just blah, blah. You just said it in the minute. So I was writing my book and you just kind of said it and I did not introduce you as author in this introduction. No, it's okay. It's okay.
00:13:02
Speaker
Mostly because I'm all like flustered that I was running late. So please tell us about your book and how is that process of writing this whole story, as you said, also like a toolkit really too as well.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. So the tough thing is when you're going through something, this catastrophic, um, even just like the illness, you're thinking like, okay, I don't want them to die. I, you know, I like, you're thinking one, I don't want them to die. Two, I need to get treatment. And three, like crap, I have to balance work and then money and da da da. So it's a toolkit based on.
Balancing Financial and Emotional Struggles
00:13:39
Speaker
how to navigate all of those things because I spent hours and hours and hours and I have my master's in social work, so I'm kind of a research nerd. So I knew how to do parts of that, but I had to look really hard because I mean, you know, insurance doesn't cover parking passes and gas and, you know, meals in the cafeteria, the hospital and all that kind of stuff. So I have, you know, how to navigate it, budget sheet, ways to think about stuff, ways, you know, friends and family can support you, things to ask.
00:14:08
Speaker
Because after he died, I just thought like, oh crap, it was so hard. You know, I'm talking about like a year after he died, I was more reflective on if I had to do this again, or if I had to connect with someone who's in this, whether it's the illness part or the widow part, where do you even start? Like,
00:14:26
Speaker
You know, just trying to balance children and you know, it's, it's still tough to today. It's in April next month, he will have been gone eight years, but it's still tough this day. I can't have my own children. But let alone when you think about people that are balancing their grief with having children with all of those things. In a way, I feel like it was easier for me because I didn't have to, I had the luxury of just being me. Um, you know, so there are the pluses and minuses there of not having children.
00:14:55
Speaker
But within that, I was thinking, I need to write all this down because there are so many different avenues, so many different facets of what your experience is like. But within that, you do, everybody has the financial part. Nobody really talks about that. They talk about treatment, they talk about the illness, but finances are a really big part of it. How to get this right kind of support, because people want to help when someone's sick,
00:15:24
Speaker
When someone dies they want to help but they don't really necessarily know how to help in the right way. I mean the worst and I'm sure you've talked about it on this but like one of the worst things people can say to a widow is like, I know how you feel my aunt died or my mom died or my sibling died and it's like,
00:15:39
Speaker
No, thanks, but that's not the same. I always say this, even if it's the same debt, even if it is, let's say I was a widow and I was saying, I can't say I know how you feel. I don't know. I can only say I can relate to what you're going through. It's like I can relate to it.
00:15:59
Speaker
I can't say I know because even if it was the same thing, you just know certain aspects of it, but you don't know the whole story of that individual, correct? It's hard, but what you're saying in terms of the financing component, all that part and the support, it's like
00:16:21
Speaker
That is something that you're so right like that's not something that everybody would have to go thinking about for example if it's like your.
00:16:31
Speaker
I don't know. Like if it's not like your spouse, like, and then you're also, you know, you, cause you then have also the financial responsibilities of your own now life that used to be too, right? Like all these, you know, it's so, so many layers. Okay. So go on. Sorry to interrupt you there. No, no, no. It's really true because I mean, the, the things that people really truly need when someone is ill or they die, you don't think about like,
Community Support Examples
00:16:59
Speaker
target cards or gasoline cards or, you know, those types of things because all the expenses really do add up. And it's one of those things where people don't know how to adequately help. So I list how to navigate all of it, the helpful, tangible things you can do. You know, we had neighbors that cut our grass. We had people that when, you know, one time we needed to go to hospital and they, we had a big snow storm and they helped shovel our cars out.
00:17:26
Speaker
Like things like that, when you have people aware of what's going on within your world and know the ways that they can be the most helpful, that makes your level of stress, your level of grief, all those kinds of things a little bit easier. It doesn't make it go away, but it makes it a little bit easier. And I think, you know, when people are, I help facilitate a couple, um, serious illness caregiver groups right now in my life.
Caregiver Challenges and Grief
00:17:54
Speaker
local organizations here and one you know I was bringing that up that I talked about that in my book and this woman was like yeah you know her husband's been really sick for five years and she's just like people want to help and I don't even know what to tell him because I'm just so tired so you know it's it's those types of things that when you're going through something so difficult you can't even think of what you need when you need it so I decided to write all this
00:18:19
Speaker
And along with that, I'm processing in the book, it's all in real time, which is pretty cool because you could see like one day I'm like, after he's died, I'm like, it's been three months and I can't believe how great I feel today and the next day I'm like, I can't stop crying. I love that because it just shows that roller coaster of emotions in real time. Yeah, and it is, it's up and down. And the thing about grief is like,
00:18:47
Speaker
It's like riding a roller coaster where you get on the ride, they put the bar down and you can't get out. It's going to go up the hill. It's going to go down the hill and you just have to ride it. You have to surrender to it. I agree. Cause if you don't, it's not, it's going to come out in other ways. Sometimes inappropriate times or, you know, you just have to go with it.
00:19:06
Speaker
I agree. I even did a post one time about that, exactly that. And even just with the roller coaster a lot, this goes back to the comment you made regarding somebody saying, I know how you feel. So I put this post of our family on a roller coaster ride and I forget which amusement park, I think Disneyland or something.
Understanding and Sharing Grief
00:19:27
Speaker
And you know the pictures they take when you're coming down that bit? Yeah. Okay.
00:19:31
Speaker
So, my husband had one expression, my daughter had a completely different one. My son had his eyes closed and I was like, with my arms up smiling and everybody different. And then I commented, it's like we were all on the same ride, yet our experience of it was different.
00:19:51
Speaker
So therefore, even in a family dynamic that you've lost the same person or relationship, in terms of how the parents deal with it, how your parents deal with it, they're missing the same person, but each one of everybody's experience is different.
00:20:12
Speaker
And that roller coaster, what you mentioned before, the bar is down, you're on it. You know that there's going to be ups and downs, but you do not necessarily always know when they're going to come. It's like being in a mountain and it's dark and you don't know. You don't know. Okay. I always say grief bites you in the butt. It's like a nasty bug. You don't know when it's coming. But I do have in my book, like anniversaries,
00:20:40
Speaker
holidays, birthdays, ways to prepare yourself and different ways to think about support and ways to ask for help because you do need to be adequately supported and you know you need to adapt and reroute
00:20:55
Speaker
the traditions that you had, you know, because create new ones. So I have recommendations of things to do. So it's not like, obviously there are gaping holes in certain things the first several years, but ways that you can go on with positivity because, you know, it's doable and I'm eight years out and I am wonderful, I am healed, but it took
00:21:15
Speaker
to get here. Now tell us then, what are some of those ways? How did you honor his first birthday that first year? How was that? And of course, I'm sure it's different maybe now every year in this coming birthday will be maybe different. Yeah. How did you honor?
00:21:32
Speaker
What's interesting is like I said when he died I was 31 when I turned 37 I actually had a panic attack and couldn't stop crying and it was like six years after he died and I couldn't realize what it was and Then I finally realized later in the day like I started panicking around like 9
Honoring and Reflecting on Relationships
00:21:48
Speaker
a.m. I realized maybe around like 4 I just I couldn't fathom or understand what was happening. I Was gonna surpass him in age. I
00:21:58
Speaker
So that was just so like, it's just not fair. This is awful. You know, things like that. So what I would do for his birthday and for the anniversary of his death is I would do things with people from, so in my book, Rachel 1.0 is when he's alive. Rachel 2.0 is literally like after he's died and I walk out the door of his hospital room because my life starts over. I'm a widow at that point.
00:22:22
Speaker
So I always planned this was like the, like this year on April 21st on his birthday, I'm working, it's eight years out. I'm good. Um, doesn't mean it won't be a little bit difficult maybe, but what I've done all the years leading up is for the, both of those things is I would spend time and do something fun with people from Rachel 1.0 that knew him.
00:22:47
Speaker
So mutual friends of ours, things like that. My sisters have come out a couple times because we all live in different states. The first year, because my birthday is two days before he died, I had a big party. Then we went to the zoo here with my sisters. So I just make sure that during those times that I've done something fun.
00:23:09
Speaker
Um, the first Christmas after he died, I was totally fine. I actually dated someone for six months. That was more like just light a cane on the wound. Um, kind of denying it all a little bit, but then, um, the second Christmas after he was gone.
00:23:27
Speaker
I went and had Christmas with my brother and his wife and their three kids and my sister and her husband and their daughter. And I just was not doing well. I was just trying to date all the time, fill an empty hole. I had bottomless hot chocolate with like amaretto in it, the liquor, like it was just denying it. So it's interesting how it just really is up and down and it's different and you can't pre-plan for it. I think the most important thing is to
00:23:55
Speaker
surround yourself with healthy relationships, healthy people.
Tools for Navigating Grief
00:23:59
Speaker
One difficult thing I did about a year or so after he died is I had a friend of 12 years that was my best friend and she, I think this is really relevant because we all unfortunately at some point have toxic people in our life.
00:24:13
Speaker
And this person that had been friends with my husband and a best friend of mine just became really judgmental, really like, you know, it's time for you to do this. It's time for you to get a different, different job. It's time for you to decide to be happy. And it's like, she had no idea what I was going through. She was newly engaged, like all these things. And I was just like, I can't have this in my life. You know, I need positive people. So I think the biggest thing is just.
00:24:39
Speaker
almost doing like a temperature check of your life throughout your grief process of where am I like how do I feel about it and what is what is it for me because you're right everyone's experience is so singular you have to figure out you know what works best for you and within my book I write it it's my story my life and then my recommendations of what I think would be really helpful for people because I
00:25:06
Speaker
I've cried thinking about how I wish I had a book like mine when I was going through it, but I'm writing it knowing everyone's experience is very different.
00:25:16
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like you give the tools that have worked for you. You give some recommendations of things that have worked for you. And if 10 people read it out of 10 people that out of the thousands that read it that those, you know, pick maybe this one works for me or this one and some other ones, it's going to be completely different what they take from it.
00:25:41
Speaker
It's still a win because there's still somebody that's life is being changed just because of that. Somebody will be related. That's how I feel with this podcast. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Everybody's sharing a story differently, and they're going to listen to one episode that's going to relate exactly to what it is that they are going through, or what they needed to hear. Yeah. So that's wonderful.
00:26:06
Speaker
Now, with all that, that's not the word like I was going to say. I admire the fact that you are able to be truthful to yourself, to know that you were just in that aspect of denial for so long and just kind of like what you said, just covering the wound here and some dynamics.
00:26:31
Speaker
So at what point do you feel it was more like, okay, really? No, I can't keep on doing this. I need to really feel these emotions as they're coming. Well, I was dating this guy and I haven't talked to him in, I don't know, like seven years, but like, God love them. Like I would be like crying about my dead husband. And then I'd be like, do you want to make out? And he'd be like, no. And I think it was like those types of things that like it, it sobered me up to.
Embracing Emotions and Humor
00:27:01
Speaker
What I'm doing isn't realistic. What I'm doing is it was like the bandaid was falling off a little bit. Like it's just air was getting into the wound of almost like I was being mirrored. Um, and one of the things that I made myself do, I don't remember how earlier it was at what point, but I do remember making myself see, watch myself cry in the mirror and just going through the pain, going through that and just knowing
00:27:31
Speaker
and realizing like, it's okay, it's okay to go through this, it's okay for it to be ugly, it's okay, just go with it, just flow with it, go with it, don't let it, you know, I think when we deny ourselves of feeling that experience, it's gonna pop up later. This sounds really gross, but I wrote this in my book that like,
00:27:59
Speaker
Hiding your emotions or holding in your emotions is like holding in when you have to poop. Eventually your stomach's going to hurt really bad and you're not going to feel well, right? So it's going to bubble to the surface. It's going to, something's going to happen and you don't want to snap it people or be revengeful or, you know,
00:28:16
Speaker
I have a chapter in my book called Bitter Betty because I was getting really bitter and I actually took like six months off of social media because I just couldn't stand seeing happily married couples. I couldn't stand seeing everyone's pretty babies and things like that. And I think that we all just have to realize and give ourselves grace because
00:28:35
Speaker
It's tough and it's ugly and most likely you're not going to have close people in your life that have gone through what you're going through. And you just need to give yourself the grace to know that, you know what, it's okay. And I'm going to mess up. I'm going to fall on my face, but it can get better.
00:28:50
Speaker
That is that is so true. So this is one thing for sure. We know that this book does have some elements of humor in it, as you described. And humor is such a huge part in that process of healing, too. So because it's kind of like a release, it's because it is heavy, you know, it is heavy and humor can be so healing. Laughing can be so healing. You know, what were some of the ways in which you used either
00:29:19
Speaker
Humor or laughter or were there certain people in your life that you're like I'm needing I'm needing right now to call this sister because this sister is the one that makes me laugh and that's what I need right now or I'm needing to call this friend because this is the friend that listens to me drink Did you have a pinpoint of people that you would reach out depending on? Oh, yeah for sure for sure You know at one of my sisters the one who's two years older and I write this in the book. So I
00:29:48
Speaker
I don't feel like I don't I mean you can probably tell by now I don't hold anything book any back anything back and like literally I'm an open book I wrote my story for the world and it was really traumatic there was a lot of PTSD and pain going into this book but I wrote it for other people so it was worth it but it was very painful to write but one sister would be like why do you keep dating like why are you continuing to like put yourself out there you're just keep getting
Friendships and Changing Relationships
00:30:16
Speaker
hurt and
00:30:16
Speaker
why don't you be, you know, just spend some time by yourself. And it was like, I was working three part time jobs, trying to pay for my house. Like what you were saying earlier, you think you're going to have somebody else help you with your, you know, pay for things and all of that. And it was like, I'm by myself all the time. Like, you know, so I would talk to the one sister that would be like, Oh my gosh, you're ridiculous. Of course this happened to you. And then the other one would be the one that I just talked about would be like, I'm so sorry. You know, I wish I could make it different. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh.
00:30:44
Speaker
But I, you know, you have different people in your life and it's kind of, you know, like I was trying to explain to a child in my life the other day, you know, it's okay to have different relationships with your mom and your dad and I have different ones with my parents. I'm equally close with both of them, but you know, you talk to them about different things and it's the same thing with friends and it's certainly the same thing with grief is you go through who is safe.
00:31:10
Speaker
who you don't have to filter with and things like that. So I definitely did have that. And then the year after he died as well, I did another half marathon and had another new group of friends and still to this day, one of the people from that, one of my coaches, she's 22 years older than me. And I don't know that I would have met her outside of this and we're going for a walk tomorrow. We go for a walk every couple of weeks. So it's, you know, just,
00:31:38
Speaker
putting yourself out there and doing things to surround yourselves with people. And the really tricky thing is, and it's made me cry a few times talking about it, is you do lose friends, especially as a 31 year old widow, you lose friends after the catastrophic illness, after the big hurrah, the memorial service funeral, whatnot. People go back to their lives and you're left trying to figure out, I've had a grenade blow up my life, what do I do now?
00:32:04
Speaker
And it's not that people don't care, but they're going back to their lives, their families, their spouses, things like that. So you do kind of have to realize, even though it's painful and it hurts and it's not fair, that you're going to have your relationships change in your life as well. But ultimately, you know, I feel like God puts people in your life for a reason. And unfortunately, friends sometimes, you know, when you have a job and you have a coworker and you're like friends at work, and then you leave that job and you're like, Oh, well, we don't really talk anymore.
00:32:34
Speaker
It's kind of the same thing with people throughout grief is you're gonna lose some people, but you're also gonna gain people in this new season of your life that can adequately meet you where you're at. And that was a really big gift I didn't expect.
00:32:49
Speaker
I'm like, let's just dissect some of these different points because you mentioned several layers. One was that aspect, of course, of the grief component, the secondary grief that comes from all these relationships changing.
00:33:08
Speaker
You mentioned that good friend of many years that you knew that it was just not a healthy relationship. That was one type. But then also these other friendships that maybe they were your friends when you guys would go out as couples and then all of a sudden it's like, well, how do you go out with these friends or they no longer contact you because it's a couple date night or whatever.
00:33:35
Speaker
And then also just the people, like you mentioned, sometimes people get busy and also too, sometimes people just do not know how to interact anymore because they don't know what to say. They're uncomfortable with their own mortality. I don't know if that makes sense what I'm saying. I think. Yeah, I think the biggest thing, like I get what you're getting at, Kendra, is I had
00:34:01
Speaker
One of the closest friends in my life. That's like a sister. She and I were close before, but I was actually hurt that she didn't reach out and I've told her this and I was hurt that she didn't reach out to me that much, but it turns out she didn't know what to say. And she didn't want to say the wrong thing. So she just didn't do very much. And what's tricky is, especially when you, I think not the losing a parent or losing a sibling or something like that is not traumatic.
00:34:28
Speaker
I think the most traumatic things in the world are losing your child and losing your spouse. But when you lose the people that were in your life, in your house every day, people don't know what to say. They really don't know what to say. So they'd rather not say anything in hopes of not offending you than saying something and saying it wrong. And that's the toughest part is when you have something awful happen, like we, you know,
00:34:55
Speaker
Whenever my parents, my parents are some of the youngest of four. So I'll be 39. I have a sister who's 41, one who's 51 and a brother who's 53. And I'm just scared.
00:35:06
Speaker
enormously because my dad's going to be 82. And although he's really healthy, like a 65 year old, like he man, um, my mom's going to be 75. I'm very scared ourselves by knowing who T man is. We're dating ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's like, because I'm like, I'm still a baby. I'm only 39 and my dad's going to be 82 to me. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I want him to be around forever. This is not fair. Not that he has healthy shoes or anything, but it's still,
00:35:36
Speaker
Frightens me, but at the same time When you're a widow like I was you find a lot of your time reassuring other people Which is really annoying because when people are like, oh, I'm so sorry You you find yourself being like it's okay. I'm okay You know, he was sick a really long time da da da da da and it's just a weird dynamic to be in so when people don't know what to say and they don't know how to support you and
00:36:03
Speaker
It's almost like you have to say and I did get to the point and I talk about this in my book like you have to get to the point where you're like, please text me, please check on me, please do this. And I actually have alarms set on my phone to check in with friends and certain people.
00:36:20
Speaker
once a week or a couple times a week, depending on who that person is, because our lives are so busy, we just forget, right?
Immediate Support Actions
00:36:28
Speaker
That's such a great tip. I love that tip. I've just like checked in with, because they sometimes come to mind, like I normally, I'm like, if somebody's name comes to my mind, I write away, like send them to, hey, just thought of you. Even if it's just that, like, you know, because there's a reason why that person's name is popping to your head, I feel. But then the fact of actually putting little reminders, what a great tip.
00:36:50
Speaker
What a great tip. Yeah, because I mean, when I actually put on Facebook, I talk about talk about this in my book. So I had like, you know, regular Rachel Facebook, but then I also made a healing blog a couple weeks after he died after the service, because it was like, I needed to write poetry, I have everything, it's all in the book. And it's cool, because I just, I'm very impressed with myself and my ability to document all of it back then, because it's neat, you can see it all in real life.
00:37:19
Speaker
or in real time, but I did say at some point, like I feel really stupid saying this, but I need people to check in with me. I need you to text me. And I had someone come over and take me for a walk. And when I say that, I mean like a dog, like I left my dog in my house and she was like, Rachel, put on your shoes. We need to go outside because we need to be able to just be vulnerable. And it's not easy, especially when you've been the person taking care of someone else and you bend the rock.
00:37:46
Speaker
When it's your time, you're like, I'm fine. I'm just going to sit here. And, you know, I've told people like, when your spouse dies, you don't eat salad. You want cake. You want pasta. You want pizza. So, you know, you don't necessarily make the healthiest decisions. You want comfort, which is fine. But at a certain point, you do have to pull yourself up and take care of yourself. And part of that is actually asking for help.
00:38:11
Speaker
And I think that that's a really big thing I try to convey in my book that I knew I wasn't good at some of these things. Cause I've had people say, wow, I read your book and you were great at self care. And it's like, in hindsight, I knew I should have done that. So that's what I'm trying to promote. Like take care of yourself, even if it's a cup of tea and, you know, posting on Facebook today, I'm having a really hard day and then letting people comment and fill your bucket. That's really important.
00:38:40
Speaker
That is very important what you're saying because it's sometimes like one is the actual person saying, I need help. But also when as a friend of somebody that's going through something hard or as a relative, you can literally just show up or call them and say like, listen, I do not know what to say, or I do not know what to do. Tell me what you need. I'm here.
00:39:05
Speaker
because just because of fear of not knowing what to say and stopping you, it's okay to also be vulnerable on the other end and being like, listen, I really have no words. I do not know what the right words are, but I just want you to know I'm here and I'm thinking of you and let me know how I can help. That's important too. Yeah, I think the most valuable thing someone can do is just be there and listen, it's free.
Simple Support Methods
00:39:33
Speaker
doesn't cost anything, doesn't take much time. One thing that I would do, now we've been all stuck inside because of COVID, but it's really easy on the way home from work or while you're making dinner or whatever to just call someone and say, hey, how are you doing? And then just that 10 minute check-in can make their life dramatically different if they were having a bad day. It's so important.
00:40:01
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And it doesn't take too long, you know, it's just to check in. It doesn't, and you could just say, Hey, this is just a quick, quick call. I'm in the middle of making dinner. I just wanted to see how you're doing now. What are some of these other tools? So aside from, you know, your support, uh, reaching out, um, you said you are now in, um, support you and the leukemia support group. Did you said that correct?
00:40:29
Speaker
Well, what I do is there's actually a local men's group here. It's a caregiver group that I do like a trivia night and I facilitated one of their like, clashes, support things. So for me, I really distanced myself from the cancer world for years because it was just too close. I couldn't do it. So an example I like to use is no matter how ugly your journey is, which mine got really ugly, no matter how difficult it is.
Finding Value in Adversity
00:40:59
Speaker
Think about when people used to go and mine in the Yukon, like in Alaska and Canada, back in the 1800s, they were not wearing their Gorex, you know, under armor jackets, right? They were wearing like blazers and, you know, hats and not things covering them well or good boots, but they would go up in the middle of nowhere, person behind person, behind person, climbing with their little axes in winter storms, hoping to get a couple little nuggets of gold, right? So they could bring that back and be
00:41:29
Speaker
rich. In your circumstance, no matter how hard it is, it's not going to make it easier. It's not going to make it prettier. It's not going to make any of it more fair. But just know I truly believe from the bottom of my heart and soul that everything that you're going through, you're going to get a couple nuggets of gold.
00:41:50
Speaker
that are being mined right now and you don't even know it. They're going to give you skills to be able to help yourself or help someone else in the future. I had no idea I was going to write a book. I had no idea. I mean, my career and whatnot is advocating for other people, but I was like, no way. No way, dude. I don't want anything to do with cancer. I can't do it. It's too close. Like I have friends that have sick children.
00:42:14
Speaker
with leukemia and lymphoma and things like that. And I didn't even want to look at the stories. I didn't want to look at the updates. I didn't want to look at the pictures because it was just too sad, too close. And now I'm like, Hey, here's this little girl today. I'm like, here's Cecilia. She's four and she's had leukemia, you know, twice. Let's help her. Let's have a better world where these things don't happen. And within your tough circumstances, more than likely you're going to get some skills that will make your life abundantly clear later.
00:42:43
Speaker
of, oh my gosh, this happened. Whether it's a coworker or a neighbor or a friend's spouse or whatnot, you can be like, I've been there. I get it. I'm so sorry. And for someone to be able to authentically say I've been there and I'm so sorry, and I'm here to listen is the greatest thing that can happen. So just know no matter what your grief is right now,
00:43:11
Speaker
you're going to be able to connect with someone and just blow someone's mind and change their world. And I, you know, we're all just going through really difficult stuff and really difficult times, but there are ways to have writer days. And a lot of it has to do with, are we surrounding ourselves with positive? You know, there's so many like sad and terrible TV shows, movies, music,
00:43:36
Speaker
people in the world, if you can surround yourself with positivity, you know, cut out those things that are negative as much
Navigating Toxic Relationships
00:43:43
Speaker
as you can. I actually have a very toxic person in my life that I can't get rid of, that's in my life for many circumstances, but it's how I choose to react to that, how I choose to support myself, having supportive people in my life, a therapist to talk to, all those different things. Just know that those tough things aren't fair, but you're
00:44:06
Speaker
getting things that are gonna just blow your mind and be blessings in the future. They really will. And it's not anything I would have ever expected. Even being a positive person and then, you know, being slightly pessimistic through the grief and whatnot. I never expected I would be this positive person talking about how I went from, you know, licking the bottom of the barrel and being in despair that my life blew up. And now I'm like, you know what? It's been eight years and I loved him and he was amazing.
00:44:34
Speaker
but I'm okay and I'm here to tell you that I'm okay and I wrote this book to tell you how I did it with ideas of how you can get through it too.
00:44:43
Speaker
Oh, wow. That is just like that. We should just like wrap it right now with a bow. That was a perfect way to kind of segue into closing. But I want to ask you, what is the Rachel 2.0? How is Rachel 2.0, as you mentioned, different than the Rachel 1.0? I'm like 1.0. I've always been like my mom would always tell me God puts a hand over your mouth sometimes so you don't just say everything that you're thinking.
00:45:13
Speaker
But I am very, I've been like outgoing and loud and funny my whole life, but I just have this new, I realized like maybe six months a year after he died, like I just don't care what other people think about me. And it's so hard because we're in this Instagram and Facebook and everything just to be authentically yourself and own your experience and own what it is. And I think that knowing, oh my gosh, my life blew up and
00:45:42
Speaker
You know, what was tricky is I didn't want to be connected. I hated high school. I lived in a town of 40,000 people. And for me, that was small. And I moved here to the Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and wanted diversity and ethnicities and different languages and all kinds of stuff. So I left this small town and, you know, of my class of like 250, 300 people, I talked to maybe 10 of them in the last 20 years. And then when my book was coming out, I Facebook friended all of these people.
00:46:12
Speaker
And when I am humbly coming to them and asking for their money for blood cancer to help people within my letter, I wrote, and we didn't have reunions or things, you know, cause of COVID I wrote, there's a reason you haven't heard from me in 20 years. And part of it was shame and not that I was ashamed of my past, but I don't have children. I don't have a happy story. I didn't have a happily ever after.
00:46:41
Speaker
And it's really hard to relate to other people that have not had a significant loss like that. But now I'm like, you know what?
Advocacy and Awareness
00:46:48
Speaker
I'm here. I'm saying I went through this. I'm okay. And I want to make sure if it's your child, if it's your spouse, if it's your parent, they have the adequate support they need through the leukemia lymphoma society. And what's really cool is LLS is also doing groundbreaking research that now is being used for other forms of cancer. So it's not just blood cancer. And it's like every three minutes, someone is diagnosed with blood cancer. One out of five people are going to get cancer in their lifetime. Um, you know, kids that have cancer,
00:47:17
Speaker
um, are going to grow up and 80% of them have with the current treatments, they're in remission, but they're 80% of them are going to have chronic conditions later in their lives. Like that's not okay. My 36 year old husband, when he was 36, his hip started to collapse because of all the treatments and things that he had that cured the cancer, rotted out his hip. Like that's not okay. We've got a lot of work to do, but humbly coming to people and saying, you have not heard from me.
00:47:46
Speaker
That's very, that took a lot of courage and I just had to put myself out there. And I think had I not been through the trauma of the adventure of what I've been on, I don't think I would be authentically just putting it all out there. And I have eight more weeks of this campaign to raise $50,000 and I'm just like, I continue messaging people and sending them because if they're gonna go on the journey that I am on, I want them to feel adequately supported
00:48:16
Speaker
And it wasn't until after my husband died that I thought, I just, I don't care. This is my experience. I have to help other people because I never want anyone to feel as alone as I did.
00:48:32
Speaker
I think that sometimes, like what you just said, like sometimes we go through something so hard because like you were saying earlier, we will be that person that helps somebody else that's going through that. I see that in just your energy. I feel that in your energy of how much you want to help others that are going through this, the book, these organizations that you're part of, all this.
00:48:58
Speaker
you know, raising funds and so forth for the research. It just, sometimes, yeah, there's got to be these warriors out there. You mentioned your dad was like key man. Well, I think you're Shira. Thank you. I try.
00:49:16
Speaker
Shira, do you remember that? Oh my gosh, yeah, I loved her. I had someone calling at work the other day and her name was Shira. Did she say for the power of grace? Something like that, yeah.
Cultural References and Book Promotion
00:49:32
Speaker
I would watch it in Spanish, so he-man would say like, por el poder de grés cola.
00:49:41
Speaker
So I'm like thinking of that now. So yes, thank you for being that warrior here of being able to bring attention to all these different issues. Now, we will be then posting the link to your website and all these other informations on these show notes. But if you want to just like say it just in case. Yeah. So you can find Wife Widow, Now What?, the actual book itself.
00:50:09
Speaker
on Amazon. You can buy it in paperback or you can actually fill out the budget sheet and different things like that in paperback. And then you can also do eversion and click on the hyperlinks for the different resources and things. Either way, it's just exclusively on Amazon. And then you can find me, wife would own now on Instagram or Facebook and you can ask me questions or whatever you'd like. I'm happy to help.
00:50:36
Speaker
Thank you. And then I also have on my social media until May 21st, I'm trying to raise as much money as possible in honor of my late husband and for those that I love and know right now that are battling blood cancer as well.
00:50:50
Speaker
And this is the one that's a 60,000. This is the one that's a 60,000. Perfect. So through May 20. Yeah. And the thing is like we've all been. I launched this before that. It normally takes me about four weeks or so to launch each episode. So I want to make sure I do that. Yeah. And the tricky thing is we're all sick of wearing masks and hand sanitizers and being stuck at home. But cancer patients have that every day for years.
00:51:19
Speaker
So we just need to now more than ever is the time where we have the luxury to do something good for other people.
00:51:27
Speaker
puts things in perspective, right? Like when you know that it's like, yeah, we're complaining about this, but there's others that do this all that have to do this. Wonderful. Anything else you wanted to say any other last? I know you've said several, you've had a lot of those nuggets of gold in this conversation, as you were mentioned before. Yeah, just that I am so sorry for everyone going through grief experiences, but it's things
00:51:55
Speaker
I really do truly believe that despite how horrible you may be feeling or what you're going through, I did it and I strongly believe other people can do it as well and things will be okay. Thank you. Thank you so much for those words.
00:52:20
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:52:48
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.