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Every Story Ever Special: August 2024
1.6k Plays4 months ago
Time to rank comics stories once again! This time, we're taking on lists that include the comic that made Chris who he is today.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Concept
00:00:00
Speaker
I said shut up. from our listeners of three comic book stories and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time. Hello everybody and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story Ever special for August 2024.
Birthday Month and Job Loss
00:00:40
Speaker
My name is Matt Wilson. Chris Simms is here with me. Hello. It's Chris's birthday month, so I hope you sent some comics that we like talking about. Or money. Or money, or both. ah Yeah. Or both. i ah We always talk about this at the end of Every Story, Ever Specials, but there also are most listened to shows by a lot. So why don't we do this at the beginning of this Every Story, Ever Special? We have a Patreon that you can contribute to.
00:01:14
Speaker
at patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax and you should Yes, you you very much should because ah if you don't listen to the ongoing war rocket Ajax show I recently lost my job right before my birthday for more details check that out ah but Yeah, so this is essentially my job now this and apocryphal's and maybe sailor business Yeah, so patreon dot.com slash for rocket Ajax is where you can contribute to the show and make sure that we do these specials every month and that they're two hours long. And that we do our regular Ajax show weekly, which you should listen to. It's a fun time. And that we do our other shows like movie fighters and snack situation and comics catch up. So just a thought, just something to keep in mind.
Comic Ranking Process
00:02:10
Speaker
Uh, listeners, what we do on this monthly special,
00:02:15
Speaker
is we take lists from our listeners that they send in, and we add the comics on this list to our giant, ever-expanding list of comics that we are ranking from best to worst. There are currently 1,560 entries on the Every Story Ever list. Chris, would you like to ah give some some of the the top highlights of the list?
00:02:44
Speaker
Sure thing, Matt. At the top of the list, of course, both I think our favorite comic and also objectively the best comic. ah For more on that difference, ah read thg-isb.com. Yes, a great post that Chris has has posted over there on. I'm working on a second one. Great. kind kind of Kind of turn it over in my head, but I don't want to to, I'll tell you what it is. I think you actually know what it is already, but I don't want the people to know yet.
Top and Bottom Comics Discussion
00:03:11
Speaker
I want to surprise them.
00:03:12
Speaker
But, number one, Spider-Man, if this be my destiny, the final chapter. ah Below that, Batman Year One, by Frank Miller and Dave Mazzuchelli. Pluto, by Naoki Arasawa, based on Osamu Tezuka. At number four, I still believe. believe. ah still believe ah Mr. Miracle, by Tom King and Ms. Sheridan's. I still believe it.
00:03:42
Speaker
Number five, Fantastic Four, The Coming of Galactus. Number six, Watchmen. Number seven, Aikwood, The Great Outdoor Fight. Number eight, All-Star Superman. Number nine, Berserk, The Golden Age. Which if we ever do another switch, that might replace Mr. Miracle.
00:04:01
Speaker
We might switch Mr. Miracle on that because I still think Mr. Miracle is good. Just swap those two. Yeah. And rounding out the top 10, we have Ed Hamilton and Kurt Swans, The Last Days of Superman. One of the, I mean, ah but according to this list, objectively the best Superman story. Yes, a comic that I have sitting on my bookshelf. ah I could look at it anytime I like.
00:04:25
Speaker
Uh, the bottom 10 going all the way down to, uh, number 1560 starting at number 1551, we have X-Men the Draco. That's, that's Chuck, the truck doing some rough, rough stuff. Yeah.
00:04:43
Speaker
Chuck Austin, not ah Chuck Dixon. Not Chuck Dixon. I think we refer to both of them as Chuck the Truck sometimes. Probably. Probably. I would say if in a battle of who I would want to hang out with, Chuck Austin in a walk handily.
Creators and Controversies
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker
ah at ah number 1552, Heroes in Crisis by Tom King, Mitch Jareds, Clayman, Trevor Harrison, Travis Moore, and Jorge Fornes. That's the biggest gap between two comics by the exact same creative team. By the exact same team, yes. Yeah. all Below that, Donald Duck, Hoodoo Voodoo, or Voodoo Hoodoo, excuse me. A racist comic.
00:05:32
Speaker
ah Number 1554, I don't even really want to say the title. the This is not the actual title, but Superman Native American Chief. That one's bad. From Action Comics 148, another racist comic. Yeah, Avengers 200. Is it 1555? Don't want to talk about it. No. 1556, Mr. A in its entirety by Steve Ditko. A long running series. We judged issues from 1967 to 2016. We sure did.
00:06:03
Speaker
and found them to be largely incomprehensible. And what we could comprehend, we disagreed with. Largely of the same level of quality. Uh, at 1557, Marville, that's a bad one. That's rough stuff. Uh, that might be the lowest ranked comic drawn by someone I love, which is Mark Bright. R.I.P. Mark Bright. Not his fault.
00:06:31
Speaker
Not his fault in any way. Yeah. At 1559, later, we have another we have another Frank Miller comic, which I do love Frank Miller's art, but like not of that era. like Mark Bright, solid as a rock all through his career. 1558, we have Doomsday Clock. That's the one where Mary Marvel sees Dr. Manhattan's ding-dang. Also drawn by a good artist, Gary Frank. Also drawn by, yeah, I like Gary Frank. I don't love Gary Frank.
00:06:59
Speaker
But I feel like I don't love Gary Frank largely because Gary Frank has drawn a lot of comics that are written badly. Fair. Uh, below that in the penultimate spot, Holy Terror by Frank Miller and Frank Miller. Uh, bad. Also incomprehensible. Yes. Like, you know what it's doing, but it gets to a point where it just stops being coherent. It becomes a caricature of itself, which is...
00:07:28
Speaker
Strange. ah And finally, as it has been since day one, and it will never be dethroned,
00:07:41
Speaker
Brad Meltzer, Rax Morales, Identity Crisis, number one through seven, the 20th anniversary edition is coming out soon. If you don't have it in hardcover already, wolf send a message to Detective Comics Comics by not buying that comic.
00:07:59
Speaker
they let's they love you they They love it for there, dude. They love it. Okay. Even though the arguably it's the reason they had to reboot their whole universe like three years later, four years later. I mean, honestly, I've talked about it before, ah Matt, you just have the the numbered list.
Mid-2000s Comic Landscape
00:08:22
Speaker
ah that the public has access to. right ah I have my spreadsheet of expanded data where I list the creators, issues, the year it was completed, the publisher, ah when we added it to this list and assorted notes that I've been trying to keep up with, um which I've been adding to that for like four years now, ever since 2020. And I can tell you,
00:08:51
Speaker
The mid-2000s, particularly 2004 to 2006, the fucking pits. How did any of us keep reading comics? That's a great question. I have asked that before. Our our good friend Evie, from the formerly of the late and limited Awesome Dubai Comics podcast, started reading comics in 2005, 2006. Unbelievable.
00:09:21
Speaker
It's a wonder. I mean, there were, like, good comics coming out at the time. Grant Morrison was still making writing comics, but... Yeah, but I mean... I mean, yeah, like, Morrison and Batman starts in 2006, and it's pretty good. Yeah. You know I care for it quite a bit, but woo, everything around it, bud.
Influential Batman Stories
00:09:46
Speaker
Bad news bears. That's what I say about that. Let's get out of that headspace and into this list from Robert Headley. Get out of that headspace. That's right. i was I was thinking about you, Billy Ocean, the whole time. Speaking of Mark Bright, M.D. Bright, the first story on Robert's list is Batman, volume one, number 425.
00:10:16
Speaker
by Jim Starlin and Doc Bright. The comic that made you who you are today. Yes.
00:10:28
Speaker
For listeners that don't know. I thought you were going to announce this title the title, which is Unintended Consequences. It is called Unintended Consequences, yes. Yes. For listeners that don't know. Oh, the unintended consequences was were making you who you are.
00:10:44
Speaker
No, the unintended consequences map was Commissioner Gordon getting kidnapped and put in the junkyard and then Philippe's dad getting crushed by a tower of cars. And famously, as you have written about many, many times, Batman yanks a car battery out of a junk car and throws it at a guy. Just fucking throws it at a man. It hits him in the in the midsection and goes katunk. And that dude like it's it set a standard for what happens in comic books and what happens in comic books and the list will bear this out. In my view, what happens in comic books is fools get wrecked.
00:11:49
Speaker
I remember meeting Jim Starlin at HeroesCon several years ago and b and like bringing him a copy of Batman 424 and Batman 425. And I told him, hey, this made me a comics fan, and it made me a comics writer. like this This is it for me. And he was like, I have no memory of writing this.
00:12:15
Speaker
And I was like, o you don't need to. Wow. Like, that's i mean Jim Starlin wrote a lot of comics, man. That's true. And his run on Batman, like, and obviously, people remember Death in the Family. But other than that, nobody really thinks about Jim Starlin's run on Batman except me. Is that true, though? Because There are definitely fans of Jason Todd. Yes. And Jason Todd fans and the character of Jason Todd ever since his return, there's this been constant there's been this constant wrestling with that time he killed a guy, which happens in Batman 424, which leads to my question.
00:13:05
Speaker
Should we consider 4.24 and 4.25 one story? 4.25 is definitely a sequel to 4.24. Yeah. I would rank them about the same. I do think they... I could go either way on this. I think there are issues with 4.24 that there are not with 4.25. All right, I'm happy with keeping them separate. That's fine. They are... We've we've already ranked Batman 4.24.
00:13:34
Speaker
um
00:13:37
Speaker
They are undeniably connected, though. Yeah, no, it is a it is a direct sequel. Yeah, because the the consequences of the title of this issue are, as Chris mentioned, the the guy that Jason Todd killed, I guess he slipped is what he says. um Philippe, his dad, in in revenge, in retaliation,
00:14:06
Speaker
Kidnaps Commissioner Jordan or Gordon Gordon Gordon and puts him in this this junkyard. Yes, and so There are panels from 424 in 425. Yes as presented as a flashback. Yeah. Yeah And and I think we talked we surely we talked about this with 424 but that did there is a a streak of fandom that Uses this and I don't think incorrectly but I was very surprised to find it out as an adult that there is a a streak of fandom that uses this to justify ah The idea that Jason Todd is a is a feminist essentially like Jason Todd cares about specifically women
00:15:00
Speaker
Because the reason he goes after Philippe is because Philippe abuses his girlfriend, and then they can't stop him because he has diplomatic immunity. Because this story, ultimately, when you get down to it, is basically Lethal Weapon 2.
Creators' Memories and Influence
00:15:13
Speaker
And then she's so afraid of him that she kills herself. And when Robin finds that out, that's when he's like, ah like I'm going after that guy. I don't care if he's got diplomatic immunity. ah The worst part of that story is Batman being like,
00:15:29
Speaker
Nothing we can do, Robin. He's got diplomatic immunity. Which, you're Batman. You're already a thing that should not, that is illegal. and You are a vigilante. Like, that's the worst thing about 424, an issue that I also love.
00:15:51
Speaker
425 on its own doesn't have those issues. It also doesn't have like the interesting stuff about Jason Todd. When, you know, reading this and growing up, like I, my only thought about it was like, Philippe is, you know, a bad guy and Robin kills him. You know, Jason Todd kills him.
00:16:17
Speaker
which kind of means Jason can't be Robin anymore, which kind of means Jason Todd has to die, right? Like I hadn't even considered that other aspect of it. Uh, until it was told to me and I'm like, Oh, okay, that makes sense. And it's always been really interesting to me that my, you know, my vision of Jason Todd shaped by these two issues as a kid is like, Oh, he's the Robin who killed a guy. Whereas other people,
00:16:47
Speaker
read the same issues and came away from like with like, oh, rob you know Jason Todd's the Robin who cared about an abused woman so much that he went against Batman's orders. And I i think that's really interesting. None of that happens in this issue. No. This issue is Batman fucking up fools in a junkyard. It's it's Batman fucking up fools in a junkyard. It's one of those classic superhero accidental deaths.
00:17:17
Speaker
where Batman is on top of a big pile of cars in the junkyard and Philippe's dad, whose name is Jose, I think, ah his his dad is a huge idiot, fucking dumb, who just keeps shooting at this tower of cars that Batman is on top of until it tips over and falls on him.
00:17:45
Speaker
And so, like, what do you think was gonna happen, man? He very clearly could have stepped to the left or right. That also. oh And Batman even says, all he had to do was step back and pick me off when I landed. But I guess his thirst for vengeance blinds him to the danger. Yeah.
00:18:07
Speaker
Uh, and yeah, the funniest thing about this to me is that the sound effect of Batman throwing that carpet area at the dude is katunk and the sound of Philippe's dad getting crushed by this stack of cars is kartunk. Cartunk, yeah. Hilarious. I love it. To bits and pieces. Um, yeah, this issue rules.
00:18:31
Speaker
Uh, it's a good one. It's, I mean, it's, it's very straightforwardly. ah Batman fucking guys up story, but there is a little more to it than that There's there's some some interesting stuff going on in the background like Jason Todd learning the lesson that his actions have consequences. Yeah, the consequences of the title of the issue. Yeah, which does ring a little bit hollow. When you consider that Batman's actions also have consequences and like, you know, yeah, like a bunch of people died because Philippe's dad wanted revenge.
00:19:11
Speaker
Also, a bunch of people die every month in the pages of Batman. Jim Starlin also wrote fucking Ten Nights at the Beast, which I also love. ah But like, yeah, well, you know, do you want to balance out the ah the three 80s Uzi-wielding thugs who died, Batman, against the number of people the Joker has killed? Including me in like two months?
00:19:41
Speaker
Like it it is, it is on a, it's a it is a nebulous text, I will say. It still owns, cause it is Batman fucking up dudes in a junkyard for like 20 pages. Yeah.
00:20:04
Speaker
Well, give me a number. Give me a number. One. and No. not I wouldn't be here if this comic didn't exist. I understand and I believe you. it's No way, it's number one. We would not be having this conversation. We would not know each other. I don't know, maybe I would have gotten into like... I probably still would have gotten into like weird comedy. Probably, yeah. You and you and me and our, and our ah I think you should leave podcast.
00:20:38
Speaker
It would have started much much later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Dan flashes Dan flashes the podcast. Yeah. Yeah ah No, I like I Can't rank this because on a personal level to me It is the most important comic that's ever existed Sure. Sure. This this is this is the difference between Yes, this is the difference between best and favorite. Best and favorite, yeah. Yeah, for sure. This is the one, like look, Mark Bright, Doc Bright, A++. plus plus I love the way he draws Batman. Mark Bright, incredible artist. oh like Listen to us talk about ICON. Listen to us talk about the Snake Eyes trilogy. Listen to just us talk about this. oh Love Mark Bright. Jim Starlin.
00:21:36
Speaker
This is maybe his B-tier work as a creator, if we're being honest and objective. oh it is like i still this This is the most important comic that has ever been printed in my life. I cannot conceive of a life I would lead without this. Sure. And fairly so. Objectively, though.
00:22:05
Speaker
Is it better than the Joker's Five Way Revenge?
00:22:13
Speaker
I mean... Probably not? Probably not. Joker's Five Way Revenge has Batman fighting a shark in it. It does, yeah. Which I do also love. That's the number 128 on the list. I don't think it's... I don't think it's that good.
00:22:34
Speaker
objectively. Okay, boy, he throws the shit out of that car battery, though. He really does. He really does. And that that panel of the guy hearing Batman tear the battery out of the car, where he's just going, huh? Hilarious. This dude in his acid wash jeans. Classic video game guard patrolling. Huh? What was that noise? I e want that, like I want this page. I'm sure it would cost me because everyone knows I, like if they see me coming, they add a zero to the price tag, right? If only just one. Yeah. Batman and son. We talked about Grant's Batman run starting in 2006. Batman and son is at number 435. It's better than that. It's better than that. Okay. It's better than that.
00:23:32
Speaker
Okay. Then, then we know our, our region, our, our zone where we will be putting this. We have the floor, the ceiling. Batman, the man who laughs is at 362. It's better than that. Okay.
00:23:51
Speaker
to for Again, for me. Well, I mean, you know, we're we're merely chipping away at the. That's true. We are chipping away at the marble. Yeah. um I'm keep scrolling up and tell you what I think it might not be better than. Okay. Still scrolling up. i Okay, here's a here's a comic that is very special to me. Okay. That is probably higher than it should be to anybody else. Maximum Carnage. That's very low and exactly where it should be. um
00:24:28
Speaker
At 260 is Action Comics annual number three, the issue with President Superman. Right. I'm more than happy to put that, that above that. Okay. Anywhere. I mean, now I was looking, I was looking at like, I'm up here with like the entirety of the Denny O'Neill Dennis Cowan question. Okay.
00:24:54
Speaker
Is this better than Berserk, the black swordsman? is soon What my guts if if that if guts if guts his arm opened up and And a car battery came out at that demon lady There you go What my I was immediately drawn to was ah oh I was just looking at it now. I'm not um At 203 is Detective Comics 471 to 472. I am the Batman. I mean, that's pretty good. That's Englehart Rogers' joint. That's pretty good. Court of Owls is at 205. I think it's better than Court of Owls. Okay. I think I... I'm... So you say it's not as good as the Black Swordsman. I don't think... No, and I don't... I think it's probably got to go below like Craven's Last Hunt, which is at 193.
00:25:55
Speaker
I will put it right below Craven's last hunt. Okay, so above Hellboy Conqueror Worm. Yes. I do think it's better than that All-Star Batman ah arc with Two-Face that is smoky in the bandit with Batman and Two-Face. And just just for the sake of ah accuracy,
00:26:20
Speaker
The issue is not actually called unintended consequences. It's just consequences. Oh, it's just, it's just consequences. It's just consequences. Wow. Wow. There's something else. Uh, there's some other, I mean that the unintended consequences is one of those, uh, those titles like the road home yeah that people just love to, to trot out. So I know I'm thinking of something else, but yeah.
00:26:45
Speaker
Oh, I mean, I think it's also one of those things. There's just like, something gets stuck in your memory as a particular thing. And, and it's a that way forever. Yeah. Uh, anyway, this is the new number one 94. Happy birthday to me. Happy birthday to Chris. I think we found a good, uh, compromise position to put that in. Uh, imagine reading this shit right after you turned six.
00:27:15
Speaker
Oh, it would be the coolest thing you ever saw. I mean, it's like me reading about President Superman and fucking Wave Rider is there.
00:27:26
Speaker
It's the coolest shit you've ever seen. Yeah, man. All right, the next one on ah Robert's list is Spectacular Spider-Man number 200. This seems like a list for you and me. It is.
00:27:44
Speaker
But man, I do not have feelings about Spectacular Spider-Man 200, the way you do about Batman 4.25. I'll tell you that much. I mean, look, it is impossible to have to have feelings about any other comic other than President Superman about the the way I have about the most important comic in my life.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yes. Uh, this, this, uh, this, uh, Harry Osborn green goblin story. It's, uh, it's Harry Osborn dies. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's the issue with Harry Osborn ties. What'd he die of? Um, overexertion is what I would call it. He's sweating a lot of those. Yeah. He's sweating a lot. And he's like trying to fight off the goblin in him.
00:28:39
Speaker
ah Because he's trying to save ah Liz and little normie And he can't like control himself um As screen goblin he blows up the Osborne foundation, but then gets hold of his senses and saves Peter from inside. But part of it is like the force of the explosion, like causes him to pass out. But he basically just overexerts himself, he passes out, he goes to the hospital, and then he he died, or no, he doesn't even make it to the hospital, he dies in the ambulance on a dialogue-free page as Spider-Man, as Peter holds his hand. And like, it's effective. I'm not gonna say it's not effective.
00:29:27
Speaker
But like it is a very backwards looking story. Uh, it's, it's one where, where, uh, Harry as the goblin takes Mary Jane to the George Washington bridge isn to kill her. And you know, things don't go the way they did with Gwen Stacy.
00:29:56
Speaker
because Harry snaps out snaps out of it for a minute and it's like, oh, Mary Jane, I'd never hurt you. What am I doing? ah And he just takes her home. um But then like he's got her kidnapped at Peter and Mary Jane's apartment after that. And they have a big fight.
00:30:17
Speaker
ah
00:30:19
Speaker
it's Look, it's not a bad story. It's just not,
00:30:27
Speaker
the big knockdown drag out, cool story you want it to be. I think partially because it's so backwards looking. Yeah, it's, you can never, you can never top the original yeah when you're referencing it so closely.
00:30:52
Speaker
Interestingly in that man had never fought anybody in a junkyard in a junkyard before yeah, yeah yeah um That's not true Batman had Batman fought the scarecrow in a junkyard he had he had fought people in so many junkyards he actually ah Alfred died in the junkyard ah Yeah, Alfred when when Alfred ah was killed off and became the outsider that happened in a junkyard Yes ah Interestingly, ah the issue I like more is Spectacular Spider-Man 250, so 50 issues later, also by J.M. Dematius, which is the big return of Norman as Green Goblin.
00:31:44
Speaker
in
00:31:47
Speaker
ah the That issue was kind of It's not, it's no great shakes. It's not like super well remembered, but I like it more than this one. Um, this one also, I hate to ding it for this, but I'm going to, it has that like late era Salba Sima, uh, spectacular Spider-Man art that I just do not like. I was wondering if Salba Sima came back to do that one.
00:32:23
Speaker
because it is kind of such a ah backwards looking. it It was part of a big run. It was part of a big Salba Simmer run on Spectacular Spider-Man that included Banjo.
00:32:34
Speaker
Boy, that story sucks. It really does. That story is a real lousy one. Yeah, somebody submit banjo for the list. Or have we ranked it already? I don't know. Well, I don't want to rank banjo. So let's do that. Oh, we have ranked banjo. We have ranked banjo. It's bad. Banjo, more like Bad Joe. Bad Joe, yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker
ah it's This story is pretty good. It's it's not the kind of Spider-Man story I would like to go back and read. it's It's one that feels like weirdly, like the writing is really trying hard and the art is just not helping it at all. There's a scene where Peter goes to a pizzeria to eat pizza and think about Harry. And the pizza is pink. and like That delicious pink pizza. That delicious strawberry ice cream pizza. Pepto bismol pizza. And it's just, it like I said, it does not help things.
00:33:45
Speaker
The Harry death scene is affecting, like it's it's not that it doesn't have a punch to it. It's just, it's really not the story I wanted it to be. You know what is, you know what is obviously heavily based on this but is better? Hit me.
00:34:14
Speaker
Sony's Marvel's Spider-Man 2. Yes. Yes. Like even the ending where like where ah Harry's last words are, you're my best friend. like that feels like I feel like they did that in Sony's Marvel's Spider-Man for the PlayStation 5 2.
00:34:37
Speaker
um I think you're right. and and Look, I appreciate, I like the the characterization of Harry here, where he nott never like goes fully evil. Yeah, i you like, Jim DiMaggio is pretty good at writing Spider-Man comics, I think Vida agreed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think there were better James DiMaggio stories than this one. um Even though this might be one of the best remembered, you know? The last panel of the photo of Peter and Harry is really good. Like, it packs an emotional punch.
00:35:09
Speaker
it It really does. Like, it's not, again, I think I've said this like four times now, it's not a bad story. Yeah. It's just, it's not quite the Harry dies as the Green Goblin story. You really, really want it to be.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah. So where, where do you want to put it? I think it's probably like in the one thousands, like, well, okay. I think it's better than blood is the harvest. Sorry, Clint.
00:35:58
Speaker
a So maybe it's in the upper nine hundreds. Let me see.
00:36:09
Speaker
i I think it's in the section of the list where it's like, these stories are pretty good, but kind of flawed.
00:36:23
Speaker
It's not like, I wouldn't put it above Haunting of Skull House, which is at 946. Wow. Okay. Walking Dead 193 is an absolute journey of a comic.
00:36:39
Speaker
I, again, the further we get, the more I love it. The more I think we should rank it higher. It's so good.
00:36:55
Speaker
Uh, all right. Here's where I'm going to, here's what I'm going to suggest. Between Vamparela lust for life from Vamparela number 20 and underworld unleashed.
00:37:09
Speaker
You know, those are both... Again, we've we've said it before, it's a top-heavy list. These are all stories I would like to read. Again. Sure. Like, I would... There ain't nothing wrong with these. Underworld Unleashes is another one of those stories where it's like, there's good stuff in it, it's just messy. Yeah. And that's kind of what I think about Spectacular Spider-Man 200. Killer Moth becoming a Mothman was not good. Yeah. But, you know...
00:37:37
Speaker
I'm going to propose that this is the new number 957. I am, uh, wait, below Vampirila Lost for Life. Okay. Yes. Yes. Uh, Spectacular Minus Spider Man number 200. Uh, the issue is actually called... Uh, Best of Enemies. Best of Enemies, which is totally forgettable, so let's just call it... Consequences. Harry Osborn dies.
00:38:10
Speaker
Okay. ah Unfortunately, I don't think there are that many great Harry Osborn stories in comics. I think a lot of Harry stories are better in concept than execution.
00:38:26
Speaker
it's It's... I feel like Harry... This, I think, might be a generational thing, right? This issue comes out in 1993. Yeah.
00:38:40
Speaker
So when we were kids, Harry was the Green Goblin, and then he was dead. And then there was no Green Goblin until, well, until I guess Phil Urich.
00:38:53
Speaker
oh Right. And then four years later, Norman came back. And then Norman comes back. and is fully Green Goblin again by 250. So 50 issues later, Norman is Green Goblin again. And like there's a Harry story in that ah Very Best of Spider-Man paperback that I read until the binding literally fell apart. But there's also like the death of Gwen Stacy. So like even as a child, like I knew Norman was a big deal and that Harry was just like the second one. Yeah, I mean, the two big Harry stories are he did a drug,
00:39:29
Speaker
And he became the Green Goblin and died. Yeah. And I don't think either of those is actually great. If I ask you who's Spider-Man's best friend, what's your answer?
00:39:44
Speaker
I mean, it's it's probably Harry Osborn, but... ah To me, it's Flash.
00:39:51
Speaker
i Yeah, Spider-Man's best friend, Peter's best friend, not so much. Peter's best friend is Flash. Once Flash grows up and realizes he was an asshole. Right. Flash's history has been so, so complicated. That's true. I don't know. I thought I was making a point about how maybe it was a, maybe you and I think of Flash's, but I guess that's wrong. I think of Flash in a lot of different ways because He's been taken down so many different paths over the years. But there was a period, yeah, where he was Spider-Man's best friend. That's true. ah Finally on Robert's list is Marvel Comics Presents, number 72 through 84. That's the weapon X story. We have ranked that. It's at number 301.
00:40:43
Speaker
ah Robert also sent us two backups that are both comic strips, so we can't rank them. Can I, can I tell you something funny? Yeah. Yesterday. Uh, yesterday, uh, we were driving to a birthday dinner and, um, the car in front of us, I pointed at it and I said, Oh, that's the last issue. And AC went, what? And I was like, that, that's the last issue. And I had to explain that the car in front of us had the license plate MTU 150.
00:41:17
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, it's the, Spider-Man and the X-Men Marvel team up 150. It's the last issue. Did not bother to explain that before I made my statement, but I thought it was very funny. That's good. It's really good. Our next list comes from the boss dog, Patrick O'Duffy. Love that guy. Who is submitting some ah Dennis O'Neil Batman stories. Patrick went out of his way to get me a nice birthday present this year.
00:41:51
Speaker
Very good. Pointed. That's pointed at everyone else. That's not that's that's pointed at that's pointed at Patrick as a thank you. And I'm very glad that he got but like a thank you for the nice birthday present. That's all. Okay. I mean, look, people can take from that whatever they want. Everybody else, you're on notice. I only meant it positively.
00:42:21
Speaker
ah First on Patrick's list is ah Shaman from Legends of the Dark Knight numbers 1 through 5 by Denny O'Neill and Ed Hannigan. You know, it's pretty good. I never liked it when I was a kid. Well, it wasn't for you, right? No, it was for mature readers. It was for it was for the the more sophisticated reader.
00:42:46
Speaker
I mean, I'll, I mean, I'll tell you what, ain't nobody gets fucked up in a judge yard in that one. That's true. you Maybe, deny maybe if this weird comic, that the first issue of a new Batman comic, the first time there had been like a new Batman comic since 1940.
00:43:07
Speaker
Like legit. Maybe if it had had Batman on it, on the cover. Shadow of the Bat came later. Shadow of the Bat came later. Okay. Shadow of the Bat came later, but like this was launched essentially in the popularity of Batman 89. Right. So literally, obviously there had been miniseries, obviously, but this was the first time there had been a new ongoing Batman comic in 49 years.
00:43:44
Speaker
New monthly. And they didn't put Batman on the cover. They didn't put Batman on the cover. And he doesn't actually appear as Batman for quite some time in the story. Yeah. i He puts on his best Batman costume on page 19 of issue one. Yeah. And it is a it is a little bit of an extra sized first issue to it is what is this 26 pages?
00:44:14
Speaker
Um, yeah, I never liked it when I was a kid. Legends of the Dark Knight was such a weird Batman book when it started because it was a monthly Batman comic that was nothing but sequels to Batman year one. Right. on Until like, until it started being like more contemporary because it was like involved in crossovers and such.
00:44:40
Speaker
it was just like the the whole deal of of Legends of the Dark Knight, as the title implies, it's comics set in Batman's past. So it was like, I think we literally see in in Legends of the Dark Knight, number one, I think that's supposed to be Batman's like so first or second night actually wearing that costume and going out and fighting crime and talking about how it's a lot different from when he did it.
00:45:09
Speaker
in, uh, in Batman Year One and got his ass kicked by those sex workers. Right. Cause it's a, it's a, it's notably the old costume. Like what he wears throughout this story is the old costume. Yeah. Um, without the yellow oval. That comes from the time it was, at the time the yellow oval was, was, you know, it, um,
00:45:37
Speaker
Speaking of Batman not being on the cover of the first issue, that is because of a gimmick on all of these covers. Yes, yes. The first issue is a native mask that is plays a prominent prominent role in the story. The second issue is Batman bursting through that. The third issue is Bruce bursting through the visage of Batman.
00:46:06
Speaker
The fourth issue is a skull coming through Bruce's head. And the fifth issue is Batman's whole body bursting through the skull. Yeah, like, taken as a series of images, it kicks ass, honestly. Like, it's pretty good. It's just, I like the gimmick. Why would you launch a new Batman comic and not put Batman on the cover?
00:46:36
Speaker
of the first issue. You said something, I think, on a recent regular Ajax about cocaine ideas. Yeah. Feels like a cocaine idea. Yeah. yeah ah I mean, i I'll tell you, I don't like Shaman as much as I like most Denny O'Neill Batman stories. And I certainly don't like it as much as I like Gothic, which is the second story arc, which is the Morrison story.
00:47:04
Speaker
Which I still think is one of Morrison's worst ah Batman stories. It's it's still good. It's still Graham Morrison. But I do think it is it is one of his weaker works. I was actually having this conversation with ah with ah oh Ted Anderson not too long ago when we were hanging out having dinner. ah How it's interesting to go back and look at Arkham Asylum, a serious house on Sirius Earth.
00:47:34
Speaker
and Gothic and see Morrison kind of working out their ideas, like trying to make sense of Batman and going through what they always do, which is trying to make, like trying to figure out what is at the core of this character. And those are both stories where the core of the character is that Batman is the superhero who's human.
00:48:03
Speaker
So his reactions to everything in Arkham Asylum, a serious house on serious earth, feel very weird because they're very human reactions. Like that's the one where Batman sees something fucked up and he goes, Jesus Christ.
00:48:17
Speaker
like oh And then Ted pointed out that you get then to 97 in JLA and Morrison has to completely rework the way they think about Batman because now he's Okay, well then, if he's the guy who's human, why is he on this team? And that's where, like, Morris and Batman comes together, and it's because he is human, but he's the best human. Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know what the third arc in, uh, in Legends of the Art Night is, Matt?
00:48:54
Speaker
What is, what is the third arc? Pray. Pray. That's right. About that freak. So, oh, that is, yeah. About that nasty freak. ah Oh, what a weird comic. What a, what a weird, great story. Um, here's the thing about Shaman. So for for those listeners who don't know this story, it starts with a pre-Batman Bruce who looks a lot like Dick Grayson in Alaska, like hunting down a guy.
00:49:25
Speaker
from gotham who's like gone to alaska to escape and he he gets him in in a red as fuck way where he like sticks a uh one of those like climbing spikes through his leg a piton yeah uh through his leg and and like they fight down the side of a mountain the guy falls off the mountain and dies um accidentally and uh Bruce is really injured in this and like passes out in the snow and this tribe of native people find him and nurse him back to health. And there's like this multi page sequence of like native bat mythology stuff. And then he he's he sees this mask that book apparently becomes like
00:50:24
Speaker
important to him eventually becoming Batman. And then the story from there is there's a killer who's wearing that mask, but it is revealed that he's an imposter who stole the mask from this native tribe. but And so Batman has to get it back to like honor them, which, okay. On the one hand, that is not a terrible story about, you know,
00:50:52
Speaker
natives from the era, but there's still some like native culture fetishization happening. Why can't I not say that word? It's okay. Throughout the story that I think in hindsight is pretty not great.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah. And again, like very kind of thematically and tonally similar to what you would get from Morrison later with, uh, like, uh, the Miagani in, uh, in Return of Bruce Wayne and then like the stuff that's expanded on in, in other stuff like Court of Owls. Uh, which I think is ah a little bit easier to take when it's like,
00:51:43
Speaker
Vandal Savage and the Cavemen, and not like trying to be like, there is something that always gets me whenever you get like a superhero comic that's like, here's a little Native American, ah my like a little Native American legend and wisdom. Like it always, it, it ah like,
00:52:11
Speaker
it it doesn't seem authentic. Yeah. lost twelve times I mean, it's always through the lens of the white protagonist, right? So yeah. And through the lens of as, as, you know, I like him, uh, Danny O'Neill, a white man. Yeah. like But well like, you know, Batman needs the native people to save him and then they need him to save their like cultural artifacts.
00:52:41
Speaker
And, you know, it's not like Batman is presented here as like anything but on the side of this native tribe, right? yeah um he He wants to help them and and help preserve their culture and and hates that it's being perverted by this guy who's using the mask. But it in hindsight, again, it all kind of just looks a little, you know,
00:53:09
Speaker
White savory, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so let's rank this. We're, we're, I think it's, you know, pretty good, but like got some problems. I mean, like I said, I don't like it as much as I like Gothic, uh, which and we have at eight 26. So I think that would be my ceiling for it. Okay. Uh, pray. Is it six 37? I like that one better.
00:53:39
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i mean ah but that's way above Gothic. Gothic's at 826. Right. So somewhere below 826, wherever you think. ah Let's see. Blind justice is at 853 and I kind of like that better too. Okay. We talked about blind justice recently. Yeah.
00:54:03
Speaker
oh Let's see. Batman the Adventures continue hardware is at $8.79. Ten Nights at the Beast is at $9.12 and I look, I'm sorry, Ten Nights at the Beast fucks. That story kicks ass. It doesn't do anything else, but it does kick ass. We put Batman the Shadow at $9.29. I think that that's better.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah. Demon of Gothos Mansion is at $9.47. Yeah. um The Malay Penguin is at $9.59. I think we're getting closer. I think we're getting closer, but i'm i' I don't think this is going to break into the tries. I think it's it's a quad. ah You think this is a quad? Okay. Yeah. Let's see. Robin kills a guy. that was ah We put that at number 986.
00:54:55
Speaker
ah Gates of Gotham is at $10.17. That's probably better. I think that's but that's better, yeah. Gotham by Gaslight, I think, is overrated. It's at 1035. It's probably still better than this. buts your chestt Officer is at 1038. Officer Downe, pretty good. I mean, it's okay. um meant like i had to I had to adjust my sentence because I'm looking at this list that you and I made. It's clearly not pretty good.
00:55:26
Speaker
Gotham's most wanted is at 1049. And that's better. ah ah This is better than what we have at 1060, which is the mudpack, which is the story about all four Clay faces. Clay's face. Okay. Is it better than the goons crossover with Hellboy? That might be the most nothin' ass crossover. It pretty much, yeah. i I'd put it above, I'd put this above that. It's not bad, but it is the most nothin' ass crossover. Okay, we have the issues that introduce the Skrulls and Batgirl at 1055 and 1056. I don't think it's as good as either of those. Okay, I think it's better than- Right below the Skrulls. When Spike killed a rabbit, yes yeah, so. Legend of the Dark Knight.
00:56:14
Speaker
Numbers one through five, Shaman. Is it the new number 1057?
00:56:25
Speaker
Next on Patrick's list is Batman Birth of the Demon by Denny O'Neill and Norm Breyfogle. That shit's good. Have we not ranked that? I i don't think we have. Yes, we have. Oh, have we? Yeah, she's good.
00:56:46
Speaker
Man, RIP's a big norm. Yeah, ah yeah it's number 233 on the list, kid. Yeah, that's I mean, that's very good.
00:56:59
Speaker
ah Finally, number three on Patrick's list is Batman Sword of Azrael, numbers one through four by Denny O'Neill, Joe Quesada, and Kevin Nolan. That shit's okay. Boy, that shit's okay.
00:57:17
Speaker
Look, you talked about you talked about Legends of the Dark Knight being the first, I mean, this was technically a mini series. It's a mini, yeah. But you talked about Legends of the Dark Knight being like the first new Batman title in 40 some years. And like, that's so wild to think about given how many other Batman books there have been since. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean,
00:57:49
Speaker
I mean, we've had two Batman number ones since then. Well, yeah, I mean, but just like the number of other their bat Batman books. Yeah. Like other other titles but besides Batman. Other ongoing Batman titles, yeah. Yeah. ah Would you like me to name them all? but i I know you could, I know you could. ah But right now, I guess we're talking about sort of Ezreal, which. A thing that I think is really interesting,
00:58:20
Speaker
is the shift in the early 90s because of the speculator market that went from ah like the reason that there is no Wiz magazine number one, right? And the reason that like ah comics names changed so much. Right, there was not a Thor number one until 1998. Yeah.
00:58:49
Speaker
Uh, this idea that like, there was a time when newsstand readers didn't, didn't trust a new product. So they weren't going to pick up a new number one, which changes largely because you know, action comics number one sells for $100,000 or whatever. right And then that gets in to the idea and then we have a bunch of number ones. And then it becomes a thing where it's like, we need readers to know when they can start reading because attrition will inevitably kill any comic that doesn't have Batman in it and may kill them too.
00:59:41
Speaker
Right, the the reason for new number ones in 1993 was remarkably different for the for the reason for new number ones in 2024. The reason for new number ones in 1993 is because idiots like me,
01:00:00
Speaker
ahha 11-year-old idiots thought, oh, this is going to be worth money. Yeah, because it's the first appearance of gunfire. Because we were stupid. Yes.
01:00:20
Speaker
And look, sometimes, like, I mean, maybe that's why they didn't put Batman on the cover of Legends of Dark Knight number one. Because they were like, yeah, it's just ah just a new Batman story for mature readers, mature-ish readers. Right.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, maybe the thought was like, oh, if we put like a big heroic picture of Batman on the cover, kids are gonna buy this. And, bang, PAL comics aren't for kids anymore. Ugh.
01:00:54
Speaker
I'm getting the sense that we don't really want to talk about Batman's sort of asriel. I mean, look, okay, but two things. One, what do you think is, pound for pound,
01:01:06
Speaker
more prominent.
01:01:11
Speaker
Biff Powell comics aren't just for kids, or we've come a long way since Pac-Man. Wow. um I mean, I've seen more of Biff Powell comics aren't for kids anymore. But that's because I think I'm not reading. I've read a lot more kind of like,
01:01:32
Speaker
comics criticism than game, like that type of comics criticism than that type of games criticism, you know? On the latest episode of Apocryphal's, we covered a Christian comic that was published in 1993, and as part of my research for it, illuminator illuminator I went and found an article published contemporarily contemporaneously, uh, in Christianity Today and made Benito guess what the headline was.
01:02:05
Speaker
And it was, bangs out. Comics joined the fight for teens. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was new. Anyway, uh, I like sort of Asriel. I like Asriel as a concept. I like
01:02:23
Speaker
I feel like in a lot of ways, Sword of Azrael was 10 years ahead of its time. Because imagine like this story comes out in 1992 and like
01:02:42
Speaker
it's like It's like the Da Vinci Code. It's like the Knights Templar. It's it's it's right a weird superhero brainwashed by the Catholic Church. It's like... It's it's ah it's ah it's the Catholic Church with the numbers sanded off. It's the Order of Saint Dumas. it's the Yes, it's it a a a explicitly defined as a heretical ah sect of the Catholic Church that split off in the 13th century, and Dumas was not an actual canonized saint.
01:03:11
Speaker
Uh, but it's, you know, like the cool thing about Jean-Paul Vallée, the cool thing about Azrael is like, he doesn't know that he's Azrael, like he doesn't know that he's got all this stuff in his brain, that he's a sleeper agent for this, for the Catholic Church. Like, right. The Catholic Church, wink, wink, which, you know,
01:03:38
Speaker
That's, I mean, that's fucking the vision in the Da Vinci Code, right? Like that's Paul Bettany. Well, I think, well, yes, yes, you're right. You're right. I think it is a hit. I think it is both ahead of its time and very, very much of its time. Because if this had been a book published in 2004 instead of, or 2002 instead of 1992,
01:04:06
Speaker
this story would have been presented in a very different way. Yeah, probably. I mean, like, also it's got a hero with a cool costume that's mostly spikes and his right hand can shoot a flaming sword out of his gauntlet like Wolverine except the Angel Michael, you know? Like, it is it's very much of its time. But like, I think there's a lot to say for how kind of just on the edge of the zeitgeist, Danielle was. I mean, even to the point of Joe Cassata drawing it, like this was right before Cassata was the superstar artist. I mean, the art in this book is beautiful. um It's great. I love it. Like Joe Cassata, his public opinion of him has varied greatly over the years because
01:05:02
Speaker
He became a Marvel executive. And that was what he was for a long time. And it still is. I mean, he became a Marvel executive and dragged that company out of bankruptcy. I mean, yes. Yes. Do not ever deny that Joe Quesada was, like, pivotal in making Marvel profitable again. Yeah. But That dude was a superstar artist and well deserved.
01:05:39
Speaker
Like that guy could draw the hell out of some comics. Yeah, man. Two years earlier, this would have been drawn by Todd McFarlane. Yeah. And two years later, I don't think there was anybody working at DC in 1994 who would have like been of that status.
01:06:03
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Arguably not. ah But, like, that Asriel costume's good. and And that's all, that's all Cassata. Cassata designed both the Asriel costume and the Asriel Batman armor. Which I also think is low-key a very cool costume. Just not necessarily for Batman. Yeah. It's just, like, the the the way the... Uh...
01:06:33
Speaker
So so the the villain of the book is this guy, um Carlton Leha, who believes himself to be possessed by a demon. And he's... Talk about that thing from a comic from 1994 or 1993. He's a large naked man with a skull on his chest and a gun. Yes.
01:07:02
Speaker
I mean, what what else do you want? Matt, like you can pretty clearly tell that's a bad guy. That's a bad guy. Yeah. he's His face is kind of painted up. ah That's his deal. Yeah. Like, again, I think it's it's weirdly of it's ahead of its time. And also weirdly, very, very much of its time. Because this is a comic that does not take a second to breathe.
01:07:31
Speaker
No, which I do like about it.
01:07:37
Speaker
Like, page one of this comic is Asriel, not John Paul Valley, but his dad, like, like, listing off the iniquities of a dude that he's about to murder with a flaming sword, like, hell yeah, cut out the boring stuff. And it also sets up that the Batman Asriel conflict, which is the conflicts so many characters have had with Batman for so long, where it's like, you won't kill, but I will. Yeah, but with the kind of added wrinkle that Jean-Paul Vallée Jr. doesn't want to do that. Yeah, he he's a sleeper agent. is He's been programmed to do it, yeah. He's got all this weird shit in his head that was put there that like, Jean-Paul Vallée
01:08:28
Speaker
is just a dude who wants to like get his degree, right? Like he's just some young dude who is in Gotham city. And then his dad shows up in a suit of medieval armor and is like, guess what? You're Azrael. And then as soon as you know, he's in Switzerland finding out about the order of Saint Dumas. Yeah. He's got a bunch of Florida to Lee on his outfit and uh,
01:08:59
Speaker
throughout Great Hair. Yeah. I wonder if I never read a page of the Asriel ongoing series, which was written by Denny O'Neill for 100 issues.
01:09:17
Speaker
And I think only not canceled. Because Denny O'Neill was like editing that book.
01:09:26
Speaker
i Like that's, talking about a comic, that comic got its name changed a couple times. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. Uh, became, became Asriel agent of the bat. I remember that for sure. Halfway through the run. Denny O'Neill writes the whole thing. And like, I wonder if it's worth reading. Cause I would love to see like,
01:09:51
Speaker
Daniel Neal, you know, Daniel Neal, the kind of the architect of of world traveling James Bond Batman, right? Doing like weird Merovingian dynasty shit. Like, I wonder if that is what happens. Folks, I put it to you. Should I read Asriel? I'm unemployed.
01:10:13
Speaker
all 100 issues of Asriel. Matt, I've done dumber things. it' just Fair. Fair. I've done dumber things with longer series. Well, let's rank Batman Sword of Asriel, which... I've done Sword of Asriel, like, it's pretty, it's okay. It's pretty good. I think, I think we can come down on it being a fun read. I think it's like,
01:10:39
Speaker
kind of interestingly disposable for such an important book about an at least at the time an important character isn but uh but a fun read at least yeah asriel i think is a cool idea i don't i don't know if he i don't know if he would him being so tied into Batman from the start, because like, he's obviously introduced here so that he, like, Denny O'Neill knows where this guy's going, at least for the next couple of years, right? Oh, yeah. He knows this dude is going to be the interim Batman. The plan that for him to replace Batman had to have been here already. Yeah. Yeah. Like, not, not
01:11:36
Speaker
Permanently, I'm I'm sure they knew but like they knew that's where this guy was gonna go which is why you get all this stuff like It's an internal struggle between him and his programming and Jean Paul doesn't really like want to kill people but you know, he's got this he's just's got this thing in him I Think maybe if he hadn't been so tied to Batman.
01:12:02
Speaker
Asriel would be a better character. He'd be one of those, like, C-list DC characters from the mid-90s that you and I love. He'd be Aztec. Uh-huh. He'd be Catholic Aztec.
01:12:17
Speaker
Aztec real. Aztec real. Boy, Aztec and Azriel, that's the buddy comedy that Detective Comics Comics needs. But yeah, I mean, like, I think kind of the worst part of it is that it's tied to Batman.
01:12:34
Speaker
But that's you know also inevitable. Right. ah where do you Where are you looking? We wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't. we would be We would be having a very different conversation about Catholic Aztec. Right, right. We'd be like, oh, remember that wild book that everybody forgot about? Remember when DC tried to get ah a guy with a flaming sword and a bunch of Florida lee over? Yeah, exactly.
01:13:03
Speaker
If he hadn't been replacement Batman, we certainly would be talking about it in a totally different way. Yeah. Uh, I don't think again, I don't think sort of as real is breaking the 1000 barrier. Okay. Because like, well, I don't know. It's, it's better than Batman judge, direct judgment on Gotham. That's at 995. Okay.
01:13:34
Speaker
I don't think it's better than Batman versus Predator, which is at $9.92.
01:13:41
Speaker
That's, do you know what? That's fair. That's fair. A better book than it's given credit for. A better book than it's given credit for. That's the Dave Givens, Andy Kubert one, not the, not the Chuck Dixon one. Yeah. Uh, uh, Batman, Spider-Man, I would put it, I could put it above Batman, Spider-Man though. Has there ever been a better tagline for a movie, then Predator 2. He's in town with a few days to kill. That's a good one. I mean, i it's been made fun of a lot, but the the Alien vs Predator tagline of whoever wins, we lose. That's a's a great tagline. That's a great tagline. It's great. ah Are we putting it right under Batman Predator? ah Yes.
01:14:32
Speaker
Cause I think it's better than that Batman Spider-Man crossover. Okay. All right. So Batman sort of Asriel is the new 993 from 1992 through 1993. It went into early 1993.
01:15:00
Speaker
Uh, since we didn't rank birth of the demon because we'd already ranked it, Patrick did give us a backup, which is red water crimson death from the brave and the bold number 93 by Denny O'Neill and Neil Adams. That's a lot of Denny O'Neill. Yeah, they're all Denny O'Neill.
01:15:23
Speaker
I do not recognize this one by title, so I am gonna have to look and see what it is. It said 93? 93. I mean, look, it's a non-Bob Haney. I'm brave in the bold, so it's obviously not that good.
01:15:40
Speaker
Oh, this is me this is the weird-ass Batman House of Mystery crossover. Uh-huh.
01:15:51
Speaker
Yeah, man. This is the bastard child of the Denny O'Neill, Neil Adams, Batman. ah Run. Collabs. Yeah. Yeah, i I know I've read this. I've read all of these, but I don't remember anything about it other than it being weird. Yeah. ah You know what I think is very funny that I'm noticing in this?
01:16:22
Speaker
How many people have been like, you you know how we're going to zig when they zag? You know how we're going to change things up. We're going to, you know, we're going to make things different. We're going to put Bruce Wayne in a tan suit to scandal. yeah Fox news is going to go off on this for a week. Uh, I just like,
01:16:46
Speaker
You know, he had kind of like a brown brownish tan suit on Batman the Animated Series. Oh yeah, he had that he had that stone-ground mustard suit on B-TAS. The shirt was like a mustard shirt. Yeah. And then like he had like a darker brown jacket and like khaki pants. I'll tell you what's great about that. That's how Bruce Wayne should dress.
01:17:11
Speaker
Cause when they, when they did the redesign for the, the new Batman and Robin adventures. Cause apparently, and apparently, apparently Bruce Timm specifically hated it, hated Bruce Wayne's suit from BTS. So when they did, yeah, when they did the new Batman and Robin adventures, he gave him my black suit. Yeah. with it That's red. to No disrespect to Bruce Timm. You know, I enjoy the work of Bruce Timm. That's fucking dumb.
01:17:44
Speaker
Because you know what that makes him look like? Batman. That's true. Bruce Wayne should consciously dress the opposite of Batman. Bruce Wayne should be out here in like floral shirts and a white suit wearing weird hats. Yeah. Like Bruce Wayne should ah should consciously look as little like Batman as possible while still being societally acceptable. What I think is very funny is that in Batman Cape Crusader, he has a tan suit again. Yes. Yes. That's what Bruce wears in Batman cri Cape Crusader. like it He probably, I mean, he might have just not liked that it was like a double-breasted suit with pleated pants.
01:18:37
Speaker
Possibly, possibly. it's it's It's a better color in the Cape Crusader. It's like a beige kind of suit. It's still double-breasted, but it looks better. Yeah. Look, I'm sorry. Bruce Wayne should be out here dressing like Richard Branson. And you know I'm right. You know I'm right.
01:19:04
Speaker
ah He shouldn't be wearing a black suit and have his frowny face and his severe-ass eyebrows on. Because who would not look? Go look at a picture of Bruce Wayne from the B-Test redesign from the new Batman and Robin Avengers. Look at that dude and imagine seeing that guy with you living in Gotham City and not thinking, that guy's probably Batman. um
01:19:29
Speaker
but Bruce Wayne should always be wearing a leather jacket. I mean, Matt, you think you think superheroes should always wear jackets. That's true. That's true. but our next I think you should be aware I'm one of those big fur coats from like the 20s. Were you about to introduce our next comic because we did not rank this one? I thought you said you couldn't. I don't i don't remember anything about it.
01:19:59
Speaker
Well, then I i assume you could. Yeah. I will, you know, I will read this one and we will get back to it. Okay. Uh, our next list is from, um, Steve Lee, who has some gaps. These are gap fillers for stories that we already have stuff surrounding them in the list, but these are, we'll fill the gaps, uh, things we haven't ranked yet within,
01:20:28
Speaker
Books we've ranked a lot of. Okay. Starting with JLA 24 to 26, the Ultra Marine Corps by Grant Morrison and Howard Porter. Oh, I'm pretty sure Mark Miller is credited on that one too. As like co writer? Yeah. ah Let me verify. I don't know. I think he is.
01:20:55
Speaker
Cause there's some dialogue in there that I think is really Miller-ish. In that way the it particular story. Yeah. Interesting. Cause I mean, is it the going theory about every like co-credited Morrison Miller thing that Morrison wrote all of it? Well, my, my version of that theory is they're all Morrison plots.
01:21:26
Speaker
Right. Miller did dialogue. Did some dialogue. And that I think is true for a lot of Miller early solo work. Because you can tell from a lot of it, like if you go back and look at like Miller comics from like Mark Miller comics from ah early in his career, you'll see dialogue and you're like, that's Mark Miller as hell. But there are comics that ah Miller is the sole credited writer on that are such Grant Morrison plots. Like his entire run on Superman Adventures. ah Miller is not credited in these. Interesting. Also, ah not all drawn by Howard Porter, ah Mark Pajarillo,
01:22:21
Speaker
is the artist on issue 26. Okay. ah I like the ultramarine core. I think the ultramarine core were a good idea. ah It is very much this is like the first version of of the Justice League versus the authority. Right. Except it's except it's also like the third version of the Justice League and the Global Guardians, because that's what the Ultramarine Core were and then end up becoming at the end of this story. They become the Global Guardians. Right. And everybody forgets that Montevideo was destroyed and suburbia.
01:23:14
Speaker
like Like, Montevideo is destroyed. And that's a major city. Like, that is a world city. Oh, yeah. Yeah. ah And then no one ever mentions that again. Superbia is not mentioned again until JLA classified by Morrison and Ed McGinnis. Well, wait, isn't the Montevideo thing like a key part of DC One Million? It is. Like, it gets destroyed by ah Vandal Savage in DC One Million. And then it's like,
01:23:46
Speaker
radioactive, and so when the Ultramarine Core finally like leaves, they ah they build suburbia, the city of superheroes, and put it there. They're going to be run right the Global Guardians and be like the JLA for the rest of the world. um Which is a fun idea that nobody ever does anything with. like The night like Cyril, the knight, shows up on the last page of this story. And then, like, never, like, the knight and squire are in this comic and do not come back until Morrison brings them back like 10 years later. Yeah. You go look, go look at, go look at the, the,
01:24:38
Speaker
Antipin Ultimate page of JLA number 26. You will see ceil Cyril and Beryl Hutchinson right there. Yeah, they're right there. Like Knight looks exactly like Knight. Like he would many years later. ah the Squire had a slightly different design. but Yeah, Squire's not wearing her domino mask, which is a ah shame because that the domino mask is great look. But yeah, Jack O'Lantern's there. These dudes do not come back Again, Morrison walking through life dropping, dropping diamonds.
01:25:18
Speaker
ah Then no one, that people just sweep into the gutter. Yeah. Anyway, I like the story. It's, I think it's, I think it says a lot that this, we needed to fill this in because in a lot of ways it is like,
01:25:35
Speaker
one of the least remembered and also like kind of, I don't want to say it's like a weak part of the run, because it's good. It's just not quite, it's not quite up. It's good, but it's not quite where the rest of the run is, I think. Yeah. And I think it it suffers by comparison to the next 10 years after this where everybody wanted to do, including Morrison, like Superman fights the authority. but Like an idea that would have diminishing returns if it hadn't already been diminished in concept. Yeah.
01:26:27
Speaker
But it's good. like the I don't know if Porter designed all these characters, but the design of the the designs of the characters in the Ultramarine Core, especially Warmaker One, with his like big glowing red circle on his face. His his gun face, yeah yeah. It's very cool. like they're I think those are cool character designs. I have nothing on which to base this.
01:27:03
Speaker
I do suspect that these are Morrison designs. Really? Yeah. Morrison, you know, like is a, you know, like a a fair, certainly better than me artist. Like, uh, if you go and look at stuff like, uh, like if you have the final crisis hardcover, like there's his designs for the super young team are in there. Like he designed or they designed all of those characters.
01:27:29
Speaker
Right. ah So i I feel like the fact that Knight looks the same makes me feel like that's a mor like's like that's from the Morris and Notebook, right? It's entirely possible. I don't know. I might be giving Howard Porter not enough credit. ah I think the designs of Warmaker One and ah Pulsate in particular are Really good. Yeah. ah Yeah, I think they're cool. I like 4D too. Yeah, 4D's also good, yeah. Yeah. ah And then Flow is just chemo. Pretty much, yeah. For Metal Man, yeah. But I do like Warmaker 1's big old gun face. Oh, i think yeah, I think Warmaker 1's the most striking design of all of them. Yeah, he's like a parody of a
01:28:29
Speaker
Like a, like a, I mean, a life health character, you know, like he's a parody of like cable or, or yeah chapel. Are any of those dudes, but like good enough that it doesn't just read like parody. Right. Yeah. I like him. Well, what's funny is that, um, like this is the authority the year before the authority. Yeah.
01:28:57
Speaker
But it's but that's it's very clearly what it is, right? like They are the militarized superheroes who were willing to kill. like there's a There's a bit in this where ah Warmaker One is like, you know, I'm gonna kill you, Superman. I have a tactical atomic bullet. And yes, yes, it was the year before the authority, but it was after Stormwatch.
01:29:24
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. So who who was cribbing off who? Or or who who's commenting on who? Yeah. Yeah. ah That is true. Stormwatch did exist. So so it it could be a reaction to that for sure. I believe Apollo and Midnighter were already around at this point. Yeah. Yeah. um it Yeah, it's a good story. I just don't think it's quite up there with the other JLA stuff.
01:29:54
Speaker
Uh, we may have already ranked. So yeah, no, I like, I think it is not the strongest part of JLA, but it's certainly good. Uh, okay. Let me, let me read you some other JLA stuff we have here. World war three is at 247. That's better. Yeah. New world orders at 303. That's better.
01:30:23
Speaker
Prometheus Unbound is at 348. JLA number 5 is at 355.
01:30:34
Speaker
Rock of Ages is at 368. Tower of Battles at 400. Crisis times 5. Crisis times 5 is at 592. It's about as good as Crisis times 5. Okay.
01:30:49
Speaker
ah The next story after that is American Dreams, which is at 612. I like it more than I like American Dreams. American Dreams is... ah is I like American Dreams, though. Okay. I mean, obviously. I think it goes between those two. Okay. um Well, that's 592 and 612.
01:31:19
Speaker
Uh, let's see. Interestingly, Stormwatch is in there at $5.99. I mean, when a Stormwatch is, you know, it's it's pretty good. I know we don't want to talk about it, but it's pretty good. Yeah. Marvel Boy is at $600. I mean, Marvel Boy is probably better than- Marvel Boy is better. Marvel Boy has Hexis the Living Corporation. Yeah. Uh.
01:31:45
Speaker
There's a couple of flash stories at six oh five and six oh six. so Actually the flash stories. Another one at six oh eight. I think it's better than chain lightning. I honestly do not think it is better than Kate Beaton's hunks for Christmas. So the new number six oh eight. Yeah. All right. J.L.A.
01:32:09
Speaker
What ultra marine core. Let's call it the ultra marine core.
01:32:17
Speaker
Is it the new number 608 and I'll, I'll put in parentheses numbers 24 through 26. There's a lot of story for three issues. It is JLA that they would cram some stories that like that Adam string stories, like two issues is wild. Yeah.
01:32:39
Speaker
Next on Steve's list is the Janus directive from Suicide Squad, issues 27 through 30, Checkmate, issues 15 to 18, Manhunter, issue 14, Firestorm, issue 86, and Captain Adam, issue 30. It is all by, well, it's by John Ostrander, Kim Yale, and Paul Kupferberg. It's the shady government agency crossover.
01:33:07
Speaker
Yes. Of the 80s. Matt, can I be, um, can I get real with you for a second? Let's hear it. When I reread the John Ostrander, Kibbe Hale, Luke McDonald run, one suicide squad, the Ostrander run, when I reread it, not the first time, but when I reread it,
01:33:30
Speaker
Boy, do I skip the Janus Directive.
01:33:35
Speaker
Boy, do I skip it, cause like you were like, all right, you know, Suicide Squad, that's that's Johnny O, Manhunter, also John Ostrander, Checkmate, also John Ostrander.
Checkmate and Peacemaker Design Debate
01:33:45
Speaker
Ooh, Firestorm and Captain Adam. Those are not, those are those are like Paul Coverberg books. I mean, Checkmate was too.
01:33:58
Speaker
Oh, I thought Austin was writing Checkmate at that point, but yeah, like. Kupferberg was on Checkmate at this point too. Yeah. Not ah not terrible. Not unreadable.
01:34:19
Speaker
ah biscuit Biscuit has to disagree. No, biscuit Biscuit's out here like, yeah, you tell him.
01:34:28
Speaker
Uh, not, not terrible, but also exactly. Yeah.
01:34:42
Speaker
Oh man, there's a design of peacemaker in this where his ma his helmet is his full face mask. That's weird. That looks weird.
01:34:54
Speaker
I believe this just came out in paperback, if you want to read it all. Oh, yeah, I um i think i've I've read the Suicide Squad issues, but none of the rest of it. Yeah, and you kind of don't miss anything. Yeah.
01:35:11
Speaker
Like, and honestly, as much as I like Cobra, and I do like Cobra, heat Cobra, talking about taglines, Cobra got like the best cover blurb, which is that one that says, the deadliest man alive is Cobra because he wants to rule the world. Is that all it takes?
Skipping the Janus Directive?
01:35:37
Speaker
That's all it takes. Because there's like a lot of people in this universe who want that. Yeah. Everybody according to that one song. Yeah. but And that song was about the DC universe. That song was about oh New Earth. Yeah.
01:35:50
Speaker
Post-crisis DCU? Yeah, like you kind of don't, like you can just skip it. You can skip the Janus Directive and be okay.
01:36:01
Speaker
So what is the part of our list that is skip it? I mean, that's the thing. It's not bad.
01:36:15
Speaker
right like It's not but it's bad, but like it's it's we it's bookended by shit that owns. That's the problem, right? like it's It's not bad, but it's like it's an interruption.
01:36:30
Speaker
of something a lot better. Yeah, like right after this we get that personal files ah issue that's all about Amanda Waller, then ah fucking Shade the Changing Man shows up, and then they go to fucking Apocalypse, and there's that cover to number 34 where it's fucking granny goodness fighting Amanda Waller. That's right. Oh yeah, that issue is that issue is great. Yeah, and Dr. Light dies.
01:37:00
Speaker
Yes. That shit slaps. So it's like this crossover that runs through all the, you know, shady government agency books, which are also all like generally, you know, pretty good. Even, you know, even the Paul Koeberberg ones, Paul Koeberberg not my not my personal favorite, but you know, Paul Koeberberg very much the the Len Kaminski of his day. Might've also been Len Kaminski's day. I think if those are about the same day, but yeah. Yeah. ah Like, it's fine. But, you know, it's, you can skip it. You can skip it. And I would actually like encourage you to do so. Yeah.
01:37:51
Speaker
So I mean, Speaking of Lincoln Minsky, fate is at 1419 on the list. I don't know if it needs to go that low. Okay, okay. Well, I i having only read some of this crossover, I think I i will have to defer to your judgment on on where to rank. So much work, Matt. This is so much work. My apologies.
01:38:20
Speaker
I do feel like I'm looking at this and like at 1321 we have Revenge of the Red Hood which is the worst part of ah the Morrison Batman run in a fucking walk because it's the one that Philip Tan draws. That's right. And it just like whatever good ideas it had about Jason Todd and and being the Silver Age Jason Todd and and Red Hood getting a sidekick ah There was gonna be like the the Red Hood of Robbins Like all of that is lost in the fact that it is an unreadably shittily drawn book. Yeah, yeah ah So I think it's probably like I would read the Janus directive before I would read that again And it's probably not as bad as identity disk But I mean
01:39:19
Speaker
Is it better than Danger Girl? I don't know, because the Janus Directive is a story.
01:39:29
Speaker
And so it's hard to tell. Would you would you rather read it than Danger Girl? Read? Yes. Look at? I don't know. Great point. You know what, I would read the Janus Directive before I read the Kreece Girl War, so that solves that.
01:39:47
Speaker
Okay. ah But honestly, even though I would read it again before I would read ah Age of Apocalypse, I do think Age of Apocalypse is a better story. It's just much longer. So I'm gonna put it right at the new 1312. All right, this so the new number 1312 is... So a below Apocalypse versus Dracula. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I meant to put it... ah Yes. Uh, above apocalypse versus Dracula below age of apocalypse 1312. Oh yes. I was making it 1313. Okay. That's the spookiest entry on the list. Uh, the Janus directive and I'll put in parentheses suicide squad checkmate.
01:40:41
Speaker
what is it What were the other books of the crossover? Firestorm, Captain Adam, and Captain Adam. o That's a lot to ask of me. it's all matt Look, I say this is someone who's done it. Reading any issues of Firestorm is a lot to ask of anyone. Or Captain Adam. i don't i don't don't don't Don't make me do that. Definitely go read that issue where ah death shows up.
01:41:09
Speaker
where DC com dc Comics' is Vertigo's death shows up. ah Third on Steve's list is a comic we have ranked in this very episode, Batman issue 425, Consequences. The people gotta know. so we will take it We will take one ah alternate from Steve, which is G.I. Joe, a real American hero, issues 26 to 27, Snake Eyes, The Origin.
GI Joe's Snake Eyes Origin
01:41:40
Speaker
Uh, yeah, bud. Yeah. You know what his origin is? Uh, he, uh, his family died in a car crash. Yes. Yes. And his face got all messed up. Yeah. But do you know, you know who was driving the other car? Wait, I forgot who was driving the other car. Fucking Cobra Commander! Oh, that's right. That's right.
01:42:07
Speaker
Because every, GI Joe, the most neatly tied book, everything is, uh, I love this issue primarily because page one is Destro petting a dog.
01:42:25
Speaker
Cause Destro, he's a lot of things. He's an arms dealer, terrorists he's He's a member of the land of Gentry.
01:42:35
Speaker
but he ain't gonna fuck with a dog like Cobra Commander does.
01:42:41
Speaker
Destro gonna be nice to dogs. that's the That's your difference. you' You're established to difference. Because when is it that Cobra Commander kicks the dog? Is it it in 25? No, it's in, I think the first time he does it is in 50 and I think he does it again in 100. Okay, so this is foreshadowing. He definitely does it in 100.
01:43:03
Speaker
Larry knew, I mean, no, he didn't. Cause he said, no, he didn't. But Larry knew that Cobra, he was going to have Cobra commander kick a dog later. So he, he had Destro pet a dog here. If, if Larry does, if Larry is being honest and does not actually plan anything, then Larry must have the best memory for his own writing.
01:43:30
Speaker
because he is able to retroactively connect things in a way that requires him to remember everything he's done. And I think that's incredible. Right. Right. ah Yeah, Snake Eyes, um you know Zor'jin, he got his face all fucked up. and And also he became a ninja. And also he was a commando. But that's two different action figures.
01:43:56
Speaker
the The way that the the way that this story presents it is that, but Snake Eyes is being told the story of his origin. And how his like his face got all fucked up. and And then his family died in a car crash. And then it's just like, then you went to Japan. Yeah. Yeah, man. He had to find out about the fucking hard master and the soft master.
01:44:26
Speaker
He did. I also like that Snake Eyes first appears in this issue in the classic. The the costume that no one can see through, which is a trench coat and a hat. And he is also wearing sunglasses. He's also wearing his full Snake Eyes costume. Full face mask with goggles. The goggles are under sunglasses.
01:44:57
Speaker
but I mean, this is something we saw repeatedly in the Mark Ruynwald Captain America run where somebody in full costume will then also put on a hat and a trench coat. Yeah. Captain America did it. fucking Fucking crossbones did it while wearing his mask. But yeah, like, is this my favorite part of, of of the government issue, Joe? No. Is it the best Snake Eyes story? No, it's the Snake Eyes trilogy. Doc Bright drew it. Does it still kick a lot of ass? Yeah. It's still pretty good.
01:45:44
Speaker
I mean- I will say this. It is concurrent to, or there's another story, yeah like a B story.
01:45:55
Speaker
in these issues, where Destro, Cobra Commander, Baroness, and Zartan are lost in the swamp in Florida. And that stuff is is not the is definitely not the best stuff with those characters. No. But it is always nice to see, I mean, look, that's the crew. That is the crew. That's the gang. I will i will read about those four doing anything.
01:46:25
Speaker
yeah They fall in fucking quicksand. That's great.
01:46:32
Speaker
um There's a pretty good Snake Eyes storm shadow fight on top of a elevated train yeah throughout this. It's pretty pretty good. It's pretty dope. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It is, I would say, I mean, it's kind of like, you know, kind of like an average you know, for G.I. Joe's first 50 issues, which is still pretty good. G.I. Joe is a good comic. I mean, hell yeah, it is. Yeah. But I mean, you know, four issues before this is one of the best comics ever printed. So, yeah, like, you know, that the like G.I. Joe 21 comes out and it's kind of like the best thing that's ever happened.
01:47:22
Speaker
So, it's not that good. But I mean, it's pretty good. I like the Origin of Snake Eyes. There are other versions of everything that happens in this that are better, but this is still pretty good.
01:47:39
Speaker
I would say, like, again, like, I'm looking at, like, the high 900s. It's probably, like, I mean, it's probably on par with Gravity, Volume 1.
01:47:48
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. Okay. I like Titan scissors, paper, stone, the Adam Warren book. I like that better. Uh, I mean, at 99 we have the Heathcliff, Heathcliff strip where he writes poop butt on the wall and that's fucking funny. We're not, we're not, we're not, we're not having that conversation again. We don't have to have conversation, Matt. I just said a fact.
01:48:13
Speaker
but I'm backing away from the microphone. I can tell. I can hear it. It's okay. You can back away from the truth. The truth will be here when you get back. Unbelievable. Uh, so you would say this is better than that. I would. I would. I would not. I don't know that I would say it's better than Gambit versus Bishop. Nuff said though. All right. You know what? I will, I will see this one. I will say it goes at the new nine eighty nine 89. All right.
01:48:48
Speaker
So GI Joe.
01:48:52
Speaker
ah What is it? Numbers 25 and 26 and 27. 26 and 27, yeah. The Origin of Snake Eyes. By lethal Larry Hama. And Frank Streer. It promises to give a reason why Snake Eyes doesn't talk. so so It absolutely doesn't.
01:49:15
Speaker
It absolutely doesn't. Yeah.
01:49:21
Speaker
Yeah. that Like Larry might've intended to do that when he, when he was like, yeah, here's what this issue's about. Here's the blurb. Here's the blurb of to in 26 or 27. The reason snake, cause the, the, the literally the blurb of 26 at the end of 26 is next why snake eyes doesn't talk.
01:49:43
Speaker
or once the guy doesn't speak, and then 27 does not. Oh,
01:49:52
Speaker
oh Larry. Oh, Larry. I mean, it's because I mean, just look at him. He's, he likes it quiet. I feel like it was just like, Oh, yeah his face got all fucked up. So he probably doesn't talk. I mean, they do like, that is kind of the Like the implication, like if we are supposed to believe that this issue tells us why Snake Eyes doesn't talk, the line, hit Snake Eyes square in the face like a boxcar full of Roman candles, that's a very evocative sentence. Thank you, Scarlett.
01:50:32
Speaker
oh
01:50:35
Speaker
Like, I mean, yeah, I guess that's why.
01:50:40
Speaker
Because I mean, this is kind of the first time that we know Snake Eyes' face is all fucked up. Yeah, yeah. I think. We don't see it till the Snake Eyes trilogy. That's right, yeah. Mark Bright's like, I'm gonna draw, I'm gonna show everybody why his face is all fucked up. I'm gonna draw the whole thing.
01:51:02
Speaker
All right, I don't think we have time for an entire list, but we'll get through what we can from this list, in this list from Jolene. All right. Which starts with Robin, volume two, annual two, looking sharp. ah I have not read it. Hmm, interesting. that that see that's That's Chuck D. That's Chuckie D? That's Chuck D, yeah.
01:51:31
Speaker
Let's see, volume robin or Robin Volume 2 would be the, what? but that's The both from 1993? Yeah. Okay.
01:51:45
Speaker
There's the 91 mini-series, then there's Robin 2, and then there's Robin 3, Cry of the Huntress. Wait. is this This isn't part of the Bloodlines crossover, is it? This isn't Earthplague. I don't know, Matt, is it?
01:52:02
Speaker
I mean, that's Chucky D. I mean, yeah. Oh, this is the first appearance of Razor Sharp?
01:52:11
Speaker
look Yeah, looking sharp, this is it. Razor Sharp, what if Wolverine's whole arms were knives? Yeah, and what if um it Razor shop Sharp and Robin fought an alien from the movie Alien?
01:52:26
Speaker
We might have to start chronicling how many times comic book characters fight an alien from the movie Alien. Because that is all that is. Chris Claremont and Dave Cocklow over here looking at this thing going, uh, maybe, maybe file those serial numbers off a little harder.
01:52:47
Speaker
ah Oh, buddy, that is just an alien from the movie Alien. Lord have mercy.
01:53:03
Speaker
Oh, buddy. Uh, yeah, i've I've not read this one. I'm afraid. I have not read this one either. Uh, so I'm afraid we'll have to, uh, disqualify it, but God almighty. Is that just a, Kieran Dwyer drew this, by the way.
01:53:23
Speaker
Yeah, and Kieran Dwyer drew an alien from the movie Alien. Kieran Dwyer good, though. No, I mean, look, this comic looks pretty good. Yeah. it's I mean, it's Kieran Dwyer um and Jose Luis Garcia Lopez.
01:53:40
Speaker
doing it This is, yeah, this is conceivably what ah Kieran Dwyer left Captain America for. This might be the best looking version of just an alien in comic that wasn't in a comic. I mean, yeah actually it's better than in many licensed alien comics. I would know it's kind of an alien that, that's faces like a little bit predator, but just a little bit. It it honestly looks kind of like a, uh, an apostle from, from berserk. It does. But that's just because everything in berserk looks like a dick.
01:54:25
Speaker
You gotta point there. You gotta point there. There is a statue, that statue of Skull Knight, that is $3,000 that you and me were looking at. like That has like one of the apostles who is just a dick with eyes. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah. Yeah, you know that guy. um Okay, so this this this ah Bloodline's alien parasite, Venev,
01:54:55
Speaker
was not created by Chuck Dixon and Kieran Dwyer. um it It first appeared in Lobo annual volume two, number one. um It is a key part of the Bloodlines crossover.
01:55:06
Speaker
o
01:55:09
Speaker
Do all the Bloodlines parasites look like aliens from the movie Alien? I don't remember what the one from Hitman looks like. But I mean,
01:55:22
Speaker
I mean, they do like, you know, inject you with the the the bloodlines use. So they definitely function like the aliens from the movie Alien. They don't. They some of them are very different looking. I just remember them all looking very insectoid. They do have kind of insectoid appearances. Yes.
01:55:44
Speaker
ah Yeah, I have not read this one. And I think I'm good. i can julia Come back and tell me actually if you come back and you tell me honestly Hey razor-sharp is good. Actually, I'll read this But you got a really look inside ah Yeah, but this yes, I Think razor-sharp joins the cyber rats After the events of this issue. yeah Oh well get ready
01:56:18
Speaker
The next one on Jolene's list is Showcase 94, numbers three through four. Cyber Rats, what's your 20? Uh, yeah. I have not read that one either. Matt, we might get through this whole list. This, oh, number three has a Mike Manuel cover. That looks good. It's a Blue Beetle and the Cyber Rats. Uh-huh.
01:56:46
Speaker
It's by Alan Grant and Tim Sayles. So the interior art is also really good. ah But yeah, it's a separate. What issue is this? It's issues three and four of Showcase 94. Showcase 94.
01:57:05
Speaker
That's that's a good year Showcase. Scarface gets an origin story in that year. Is that Joker story? Oh, this is a backup. This is a backup in, oh God, okay, this is a backup in Showcase 94 by Chuck Dixon and Jim Ballant. Ah, Jolene. And it's all about the cyber rats. You know what I want to see is, oh wait, ah Showcase 94, number three, it's Chuck Dixon and Howard Porter.
01:57:44
Speaker
i'm No, no, no. Is it Jim Ballon number four? It's in number three, the backup, Razor Sharp and the Cyborats. Oh no, Razor Sharp was created by Chuck Dixon and Jim Ballon. It is Chuck Dixon and Howard Porter. You're right. You're right. It is Chuck Dixon. I was looking at different credits. I see now, but wait a second. Kieran Dwyer drew that annual. Razor Sharp must have appeared in the Core Bloodlines book.
01:58:14
Speaker
Yeah, that must have, uh, the cyber rats were created by Chuck Dixon and Kieran Dwyer. Mmm. Jolene. It's, you know what, Jolene, I respect the hustle. I gotta respect the attempts.
01:58:35
Speaker
Uh, so I guess it's not, it's technically not a backup because Showcase just had two stories in it. Three stories, because there's a Blue Beetle one too. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. There's a like, it it is a, uh, there's an Allen great tip sale story that is about Arkham asylum. She's got a lot of good stuff. The, um, the, the second part of the cyber rat stories ends with coming soon. Cyber rats, the mini series, all three issues of it. Uh,
01:59:12
Speaker
Yeah, I guess i guess that that that actually yeah that actually did happen. ah Another Chuck Dixon creation. Do you think Chuck Dixon was like, so the cyber rats, they're all going to be hackers and razor sharp, her arms turn into knives.
Cyber Rats and Future Reading Plans
01:59:37
Speaker
So she's going to be like the literal hacker.
01:59:41
Speaker
It's like poetry. It rhymes. It rhymes. Yeah. Uh, another one we can't rank on Jolene's list is Catwoman volume two, number 25, the crooked house. Uh-huh. Yet another Jim Ballant Catwoman story. Now, Jolene also got me a birthday present and a a copy of a Catwoman, the cat file did arrive at my home at my home address. but Where your children sleep. Where, where, where my child biscuit sleeps.
02:00:11
Speaker
yeah ah Julian, I will read Catwoman the Catfile by Chuck Dixon, Jim Ballant, and Bob Smith if this campaign of terror stops. Well, we did write we finally ranked an issue of Jim Ballant Catwoman. Catwoman 1 million? Yeah. Catwoman 1 million. And I believe it has settled things, but We're doing lists from over a year ago still. So that's the issue. I see. ah So we can't rank any of those three. There was a backup from Jolene that's blood pack one through four. Jeepers Christmas, Jolene. Even we have limits.
02:01:01
Speaker
ah Can we break a blood pack one through four when we come back next time?
02:01:10
Speaker
You're asking me if I want to read blood pack one through four over the next month. You haven't read it. No, I've not read blood pack. Okay. Nor have I. So we're just going to start a clean slate with a fresh list on our September, every story ever special. I mean, look, look, I'll do it. If you, if you do it, I'll read blood pack. We would have to do it as a catch up. It's got, it's got mola Superman in it.
02:01:40
Speaker
we we would all We would have to do it as a catch-up, but we all already have catch-up plans to read the shadow. So lay down your burden. We will be back in September with another Every Story Ever special. ah Thank you for listening, everybody. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Yeah. Blood Pack has Mongrel, Sparks, Nightblade, Geist, Ballistic, and Razor Sharp in it. You know it, baby.
02:02:07
Speaker
Okay, I might have to revise. That's a, that's a, so that's a killer lineup. Okay. Think about whether you want to set aside the shadow for a bit to read blood pack one through four. Matt, I got no job.
02:02:22
Speaker
so ah Look, I'm not doing two catch ups. I'm either going to read some of that shadow run that from the late eighties that we've talked about.
02:02:34
Speaker
Oh, we're going to read blood pack one through four. Blood pack number four has the word cancellation on the cover. I think we've decided that we're reading blood pack one through four. Look, you don't have to. I'm going to read it.
02:02:52
Speaker
I think we've, just for catch up, in September, we are changing plans and reading Blood Pack 1 through 4. Alright, hey Jillian, I hope you're happy.
02:03:05
Speaker
I mean look, if like if nothing else, 4 issues is a lot ah easier to read than 18. That's true. ah but We'll do the shadow series sometime. But plans, plans have changed. Cancellation.
02:03:22
Speaker
If you would like to send us in every story on our list you could do it in our email address Which is war rocket podcast at gmail dot.com that is also where you can send ah Any other kind of message that you want a listener question or let us know that you want to sponsor the show We're on blue sky at war rocket Ajax not be sky not social. We're on tumblr at war rocket podcast dot tumblr dot com You can ah also
02:03:51
Speaker
Go to our website, which is warrocketajax.com to find every episode of the show we've ever done. And warrocketwiki.com is the fan run repository for all the information you could ever want about this show, War Rocket Ajax. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to all my stuff, my other podcasts and the books I've written and the comics I've written. Chris, where can people find you?
02:04:14
Speaker
Uh, people can find links to the things I do and some other stuff by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. I've wrote a thing for it. Gonna write a second thing. It's gonna be even weirder. Go there. Go there. You can also find stuff that I've done on patreon dot.com slash warwreckedhx if you give us five dollars a month or more. That's right. Uh, so if you can, you should.
02:04:43
Speaker
See you in September, everybody, but the number with another Every Story Ever special, and I guess we're gonna read Blood Pack one through four. Yeah, we are.
02:04:54
Speaker
Bye, everybody. See you next time. Blood Pack out.