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Labors of Love
172 Plays2 years ago
This week's episode is a special surprise, with the Boys of APT hosting a talk all about the labors of love. They think about love as both a philosophical and financial phenomenon.
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Transcript
00:00:07
Speaker
I was good. It's not so bad. Wow.
Introduction and Valentine's Surprise
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to our Pop Talk. I'm Bianca. And I'm Gianna. You know, Gianna, you sound a little odd. It feels like your voice might have gotten five notes deeper. I think it's this weird cumin-flavored Pop Talk I ate for lunch. You sound weird too. What do you think it is? Well, I think it's because today
00:00:46
Speaker
The art prop tarts are in for a very big surprise reveal. Today we have some very special guests, which technically is us. So it's the boys of APT, look at that. Oh my goodness, what an intro. What an intro.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yep, so you are here with Andrew and Theban, so welcome everybody. We're very happy to be here to grace the art pop talks with our wonderful singing, right? That's right. And in this Valentine's Day special episode, you get a treat of us. It's our labors of love for our wonderful partners, Gianna and Bianca. Exactly.
00:01:33
Speaker
So how are you doing, Theven? I'm good. It's been
Andrew and Theban's Cultural Insights
00:01:36
Speaker
a... I guess they talk about that too, right? They talk about the week. I'm doing well. It's been a long week. I have two midterms this week. Okay. And I have to record this as well. So it'll be fun. It'll be fun.
00:01:51
Speaker
it's gonna be great yeah well i hope it's not too much of an obligation you know as you're probably very busy with work and midterms and then this but um wonderful yeah so uh just appreciate you taking the time to be here of course for the fans of course i i hear john and bianca saying that
00:02:14
Speaker
To your voice. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm speaking on behalf of our The Martucci ladies Shall we dive into it? Um, yeah, so I guess just as a small introduction, you know, we are
00:02:31
Speaker
Here, again, the labors of love, it's that time of the year for love and romance. So we are here for a very special themed episode, specifically, I would say, related to Valentine's Day and all things love and romance. And we'll talk about it, I guess, from our perspectives, apparently. We will. And we totally hope to not bore the audience here because we have some pretty deep conversations we're gonna have.
00:03:01
Speaker
We will, we'll probably be very deep, yeah. You know, we come before you today with the esteemed honor of hosting Art Pop Talk. And I can assure you, we really have no idea what we're doing. Absolutely not. But we're going to give it the good old college try and be good boyfriends, or fiances, in your case, even. That's right.
00:03:25
Speaker
So I guess to begin, maybe we can talk about, you know, dating. I think dating is a very interesting situation, specifically in relation to with how we met Bianca and Gianna. You know, Theban, you come from a pretty unique background. Maybe you could share like, you know, some of your experiences with, you know, just love, romance, dating. Just, I'd be curious to hear your story or just,
00:03:54
Speaker
your perspectives from your background. Yeah, happy to get into it. So as most of you listening may or may not have known, I was born and raised in Malaysia, came over to America when I was 20. And for those of you who don't know Malaysia's history, there's three main races in Malaysia, the Malaysia, which constitute about 60 to 70% of the population, the Chinese about 20 to 25% of the population, and then the Indians, which are
00:04:23
Speaker
around five to eight percent of the population. And Islam is the country's official religion, although the rule of law is democratic with a hint, a spice of Islamic conservative laws, specifically for the Muslims, which are about 60 to 70 percent of Malaysia's population.
00:04:42
Speaker
With that comes the amalgamation of mainly these three races. And with that also comes more conservative religious Muslim ideology. When I grew up, Valentine's Day was becoming more and more taboo topic. It was labeled a Western idea that was infiltrating a developing country. For example, they will look down on Malay Muslims trying to enjoy the day with their significant other.
00:05:09
Speaker
It is certainly more common to see in urban settings than rural settings, the whole dating Valentine's Day thing. And rural areas have a pretty strong conservative majority that in some states, and this is a fun fact, they actually ban men and women to be in the same room in a movie theater. But that's a story for another day.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah well just interesting just all together I think thinking about you know experiences and like what that can look like in just different cultures and how those holidays are you know either acknowledged or not really acknowledged or just how
00:05:47
Speaker
just social norms really take place, I would say, you know, amongst different cultures. So I'm just very intrigued. I'm curious too, you know, thinking about like interracial couples. What did that sometimes look like? Great question. Not like we have this not planned, right? Interracial couples are pretty rare in Malaysia, obviously more common in recent generations. And like I said, just now in urban city areas like Kuala Lumpur,
00:06:17
Speaker
the capital of the country. It's funny, the country as a whole is becoming better, but you do find hints of ignorance here and there as a whole. It blew my mind when I found out Americans love to tan, for example. Oh, yeah. And because in Malaysia, you'd see it in TV ads and casting crews, how the widest or the fairest skin tone person would get the leading role.
00:06:41
Speaker
Yeah, and there's literally a skin-winding cream called Fair and Lovely that is famously used by the Indian community. The ad for Fair and Lovely goes, one gloomy day, a dark-skinned Indian woman, it's always a woman by the way, being rejected by her family, friends, and work. Then, one fine beautiful day, her mom introduces her to Fair and Lovely, and boom!
00:07:09
Speaker
She starts using this winding lotion and she becomes fairer in a couple of weeks. Guess what? After that, she goes out into the world, is welcomed by her family, friends, and meets a nice-looking Indian guy. Of course, he is super light-skinned. And they lived happily ever after. Imagine... That is... Go on. I don't love it. Yeah.
00:07:33
Speaker
No, it's also I think you know in relation to fair skin I remember living in China for a little while and seeing you know the whitening lotions that are used because that's just kind of what is seen or what appears to be the preference or like what people prefer what what seems to be acceptable is to be a
00:07:54
Speaker
um fairer skin but also like i'm wondering does do you think that also comes like into context with some of eastern cultures or countries potentially trying to adapt that sort of western persona or idea yeah and and it's surprising they do it in china because i i didn't know china was that too although i did speak to you off script um before about how i told you some chinese aunties
00:08:23
Speaker
And back in Malaysia, we call everyone uncle and aunties, whoever are older than us. And so we have some Chinese aunties would wear like really long sleeve and Malaysia is super hot just because they want to cover their skin and they don't want to get darker. And it goes back to that same point you made. Just imagine a six year old dark skinned Indian girl.
00:08:42
Speaker
and watching that tv ad that i just talked to you about and that's real life by the way the problem i have with beauty is just right there you know like you said the juxtaposition between america and malaysia in terms of this is just grotesque the grass is always green on the other side right in america you see people wanting to tan in malaysia you see people wanting to get fair
00:09:05
Speaker
It's always inverted or just, yeah, reversed. Exactly. And, you know, I get our Darwinian instincts to seek out the most beautiful looking person in the room, but I think it is certainly damaging our path to lead
Dating Stories and Cultural Misunderstandings
00:09:18
Speaker
the good life. Good life. Oh, boy. Exactly. I'm going to jump right into the philosophy. We have all the time to talk about that.
00:09:27
Speaker
I know. But to be honest, in my utopia, people will be more like, oh my God, look at David Beckham. He's the kindest and most compassionate person out there. How hot is that? I love that you went to David Beckham. Just what a sex icon, right? He sure is. And he was definitely my Man Crush Mondays in Malaysia. Is that right? No. Were those allowed in Malaysia? Exactly.
00:09:58
Speaker
No, it truly is interesting. Yeah, and I think it's always just interesting to what is embedded in culture and what ends up becoming socialized and constructed for just more of the sociological development of cultures and what ends up being certain norms or traditions. So like thinking about
00:10:19
Speaker
you know, a lot of American mentality of just a lot of commercialization, luxury or just the ideas of spending or the cosmopolitan aspects to America and having, you know, that American dream that
00:10:35
Speaker
also might entail having a beach house or having a nice yacht and being amongst a sandy shore where everybody's getting tan and everybody is able to have their skin exposed. And it's very interesting that that's
00:11:06
Speaker
classroom, mostly white, 60% of America's white. And so you see that all around. And so what is now sexy is something that's exotic would be a different type of skin tone. And so people seek for that. It goes back to that grass is always greener, I feel like. And the same thing with Asia, though. In a lot of ways, Westerners are put on a pedestal, thanks to the genius.
00:11:16
Speaker
I guess people hold in high regard, at least here in the West, yeah.
00:11:33
Speaker
and successfulness of Hollywood and all the entertainment industry. But I think, you know, it definitely has a negative connotation to it in some ways.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's also just interesting to think about how those means like marketing as well as just advertisement and media permeates into people's perspectives and it really ends up you know being the way certain people will start to move into trends or imprint upon you know what is
00:12:05
Speaker
the acceptable way of moving towards something decent or what they believe is going to be an appropriate way of presenting themselves, or in your sense, the good life. We can have a whole episode just talking about that.
00:12:20
Speaker
the good i mean i'm sure we'll be back at some point um you know i well i appreciate you sharing a little bit of just your background um especially you know coming to the united states and seeing it from you know multiple facets i think it's really interesting to have that pluralism in that perspective i think it's important to be able to have um
00:12:44
Speaker
just a little bit larger or a broader stroke of what people might see in relationships and what might be the reality of them depending on where you're at, you know. I think in the U.S. it's we have a lot of freedoms and we have the ability to take agency with how we want to have relationship dynamics. It's fascinating to think about and just
00:13:09
Speaker
in a country like an asian country that's more conservative even the what might be a social taboo of having an interracial couple uh depending on where you're at yeah yeah no malaysia is definitely very backwards in that sense you know we're just talking about um in some ways just trying to be a little bit more liberal when it comes to relationship and and something like interracial is something
00:13:33
Speaker
it feels like you know we're thrown back to the 60s and the 70s where you know yeah interracial couples and but i you know i have hopes i'm always in a glass half full kind of guy i thought you're a stoic another i guess some some positive stoics here and there
00:13:51
Speaker
which I'm sure we'll get into. So Andrew, I am very curious. We talked about Valentine's Day in Malaysia and there's a lot of discussions to be had with dating and relationships. Do you, Andrew James, have any interesting or funny stories about those experiences or interactions?
00:14:11
Speaker
Oh no, now you're going to put me on spot. So are we talking about like dating stories, like funny dating stories? Yeah, Tinder stories, dating, normal dating stories. Am I allowed? Laid out. Bianca, I'm sorry, I'm sharing this story so far. It's not about her, don't worry.
00:14:34
Speaker
Well, you know, here's a funny story. So this was just before the pandemic actually. So it was early winter of what would have been, would it be 2020? Yeah, winter of 2020. So I was participating in online dating. So I think I had a Tinder and a Bumble at this point.
00:14:59
Speaker
And, you know, you get some matches here and there. You try and strike up the conversations. It's that classic, you know, see if the conversation is stimulating or if they don't ghost you. And then I did, I matched with somebody and we had a really good conversation. It was just great dialogue and we were all ready and set to meet.
00:15:24
Speaker
So this girl actually she drove to my apartment where I was so I was still in grad school at this point and I had an apartment that was just a little off campus and I
00:15:36
Speaker
she drove to the apartment so she was coming from like an hour and a half out of town and from there okay well first off like i was i was taking this girl like to a nice restaurant right like i was i was well you know i like i like to have an impression i like to make sure you know if i'm taking somebody out it's
00:15:59
Speaker
it's going to be meaningful or it's going to be a nice experience overall but I'm dressed in a nice button down like I have my nice like black slacks on I have I work at Clark's so I had my nice Clark shoes on I was ready to go like I look good
00:16:17
Speaker
and like she came out and like these like dirty white vans and like these like bell bottom jeans and a pink turtleneck and like that's I should not be like this is I don't mean to be condescending or rude to anybody's like image or like
00:16:37
Speaker
what they wear like that's totally somebody's choice and I have no objections to like how anybody wants to express themselves or how people want to present themselves I was just surprised because like I told this girl like yo we're gonna go like out to a nice place like I'm taking you out and it was just like okay like jeans and a turtleneck
00:17:02
Speaker
I should not be really critical of that. That's not fair of me. So we go to dinner and basically, you know, we're having a great conversation, very sweet person, like very genuine, really authentic. I had a lot of fun just talking to the person, but I just was not attracted to this person at all. At all. Your Darwinian instincts or your intellectual instincts?
00:17:32
Speaker
like intellectually very stimulating profound like the the person was really just very articulate and that was very stimulating but I guess my as you say Darwinians they were not about it so
00:17:54
Speaker
So then after dinner, we went back to my place and we were watching a movie and I wasn't really initiating anything. However, after the movie, this girl starts getting all snugged up and I'm like, I'm going to go to bed.
00:18:19
Speaker
And I set her up on a bed, like a pull out couch bed. And I feel terrible about it. Cause then like, I went to the other room thieving and then I got a text that was a gif saying like, come snuggle. Did you pretend you were asleep or did you, did you apply?
00:18:51
Speaker
oh my gosh it's awful and i feel so bad i just feel bad because i'm just like why didn't you leave like why didn't you go like after you know like i'm not trying to be rude but like i think that's just a pretty clear sign that like you know we we had our conversation we had the
00:19:13
Speaker
to get together but like this isn't moving forward and then she proceeded to stay the night on my futon till the next morning. That must be some like either a comfortable futon or she really really
00:19:30
Speaker
Wanted to sleep at your apartment. I Well, I think also maybe Given the travel commute if she was like an hour and a half out Maybe she would just stay but anyway Wow, what a story
00:19:54
Speaker
I suppose, I suppose. I still feel bad about it. I just like, I don't know if I was supposed to say something. I mean, like, then the next morning, she just laughed. She was like, thank you so much for a great like, I'm like,
00:20:10
Speaker
right i'm glad you thought it was great um so that was just a very interesting and peculiar date i suppose um but i am uh i'll ask you as well um what has your experiences been with dating um maybe specifically like virtual dating and you know communication and trying to um
00:20:36
Speaker
trying to get a date off of Tinder or Bumble. Do you have any of those funny dating app stories and matches? I sure do. Where do I start? I have one story. So in 2015 and back then,
00:20:54
Speaker
We had the OG dating app Tinder. I don't think we had Bumble, Hinge. They might be around. They might've been around, but it wasn't as good, I guess, for lack of a better words, as Tinder was. So yeah, so Tinder was the go-to app. And I matched with a girl in late 2015. And I came to America early January, 2015. So I was still trying to get used to the culture
00:21:24
Speaker
the accent had a weird Malaysian British accent well not British accent British English but Malaysian accent so we love that yeah not the cute British accent that people favor here but British English I guess it's overrated
00:21:42
Speaker
So anyway, we matched and we were finding a spot to go and my fancy dinner spot was Pei Wei. And for those of you Northeastern listeners who don't know what Pei Wei is, it's basically a knockoff PF Chang's.
00:22:01
Speaker
Now, real quick, did this person come in bell-bottom jeans and a pink turtleneck? Better. This person came with a joggers and a sweatshirt.
00:22:20
Speaker
It was pay way right and so but but before that she was asking me so are you gonna come and Pick me up or something and I was like, oh no, I was thinking we could just meet up there I have a bike and I don't think two people would fit on it
00:22:38
Speaker
I didn't have a car that time. Did she think that was a line or did she? No, no, I was just, I think she was disappointed. Definitely I did not get any brownie points there for owning a bike and not owning a car. I think the bike initiation would have been great. It would have been a great way to like, you know, it would be the litmus test. If this girl was willing to meet you as you cycled over to Payway,
00:23:05
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. You know, but at that time I was more of, you know, I needed to impress her versus Sheena to impress me kind of thing. And maybe it stems from a more traditional dating scene that I was used to back in Malaysia. Yeah. I hope I'm not opening a whole new can of worms that we can get into. But to continue the story, you know, so, you know, I was having this date. It's amazing. I assume it was sesame chicken.
00:23:33
Speaker
Knocking it out and pay way we end up talking and you know, it's a decent conversation as that's what she does And I think she was of course a basketball player This year's basketball player who's up that's our that's our motto
00:23:50
Speaker
Wait, what's the mascot mascot is a horse a brown? Okay So hooves up because well horseshoes yeah, I dated a horse girl Oh
00:24:07
Speaker
Nice. Well, you know, we have to ask the mascot as continuity from last week's episode. No, absolutely. And just to finish this off, because there's a good caveat here. So we end up talking and then all of a sudden she was like, oh, then I end up saying, you know, I'm from Malaysia, you know, Indian and all that. And she was like, oh, you're Indian?
00:24:32
Speaker
My uncle has a friend who is Indian. He's really close to him. And I was like, oh great. And I was absolutely curious, right? New guy, new country. What does she mean by this? And then she just paused. And then I was like, oh. In my head I was thinking, I guess me and your uncle would have a lot of comment. Anyway, that was my story.
00:24:56
Speaker
I have a multiracial friend, too. Right. Specifically Indian. Yeah. I know one other Indian person in Oklahoma. Well, not me. My uncle knows that Indian person. Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, boy. Well, us and dating stories. Hey, we've moved on to much better things and just much more compatible people, right? That's how I would phrase it.
00:25:26
Speaker
So Andrew, there is this lingering question in my head about philosophy, history, and valentines. And I was wondering if you could take us to this promise land
Historical and Philosophical Origins of Valentine's Day
00:25:41
Speaker
of explaining to us, really getting into the philosophical history. Andrew, kick us off.
00:25:52
Speaker
Okay, well there's a lot we can unpack here, Theban. Just out of curiosity, what do you know of Valentine's Day? I'm just curious. Yeah, besides that whole brief history of Malaysia and Valentine's Day, I know pretty much that Valentine's Day was from this
00:26:13
Speaker
Pope Satan Valentine's. And for whatever reason, he got famous and he was known for this day of love.
00:26:24
Speaker
It's all I know. Yeah, so there's a couple of different stories with Saint Valentine. I know that one of them at least is in relation to a, I believe like a Catholic priest or maybe a Pope. I think a priest, but... I guess you're right.
00:26:44
Speaker
My bad. No, no, not to worry. But I believe what he would do was he would marry couples in secret. And that was something that he was known as like, you know, a saint for romance or a saint for, you know, matrimony, I guess, from a more religious.
00:27:05
Speaker
terminology and then I think there was also another story of you know similar situation like a Catholic priest that would you know write words of the gospel prior to Christian texts really becoming a part of you know a canonical sort of religious order it was still during pagan times of
00:27:29
Speaker
The Roman Empire and he would sign like different items for like Gospels and different things, but he would sign it You know your Valentine it would be just these little notes of like scripture and such this could even be what? Potentially is an account from like a drunk art historian right now the way I might be interpreting this but that's you know obviously Valentine's Day is attributed to at least that individual Saint Valentine and
00:27:55
Speaker
depending on what the story is and who's interpreting it, there can be multiple perspectives and multiple analysis on what and who Valentine was. Similar to Saint Nick or Saint Patrick folklore or fantastical tales about these saints as they became more and more popularized.
00:28:16
Speaker
but in relation to the philosophical implications there's a couple of ways we could kind of look at this and I mean if you were thinking about more so love would you be interested in like knowing about like various perspectives of ancient philosophers and like what they thought about for love? It's like you know what I like to hear.
00:28:40
Speaker
Please enlighten us. Ooh, all right. Well, I'm thinking about Plato specifically and the idea of Eros. So Eros is a type of love that Plato describes in a bit of his philosophy. It's slightly more complex as it's inspired philosophy of love in a lot of different types of modern academia. But initially, Eros was known as a form of carnal love,
00:29:08
Speaker
almost like this real passionate or like feral desire or like a lust. Eros was really in the sense like this very impulsive, very compelling feeling when you were attracted to somebody or another person. So actually, they've been thinking about, you know, some of our terms that we've been using, maybe like a Darwinian instinct, you know?
00:29:30
Speaker
as it kind of moved into more modern interpretations, most I would say academics and theorists would say typically when we feel Eros love, it's through some sort of sexual attraction or that sort of harassment. Yet thinking about
00:29:47
Speaker
Plato's original context with this, that conception can be typically deep into something, I think, personally, I think a bit more complex. You know, Eros really helps the soul remember the inner beauty of its pure as the most ideal forms. And that's really what Eros was originally attributed to, was the idea of forms and aesthetics. So thinking about things,
00:30:13
Speaker
that are of an aesthetic nature and certain value judgments or when you are looking at actually this is really great for the art pop tarts because like when you're looking at a piece of art or when you're looking at a certain form or a certain picture in front of you the compulsion that you feel or the movement that you feel from it is what you know this type of arrows is the sensation or experience that you're being exposed to that's really you know i think
00:30:43
Speaker
the Eros sort of love or desire and sensation put into a McDonald's happy meal box real quick but that's kind of one of the ideas of Eros and also you know
00:30:58
Speaker
Eros when it comes to like lovers or loving somebody, it's, you know, trying to bring themselves like trying to bring yourself to the most ideal place of happiness, because you're finding an ideal form of beauty in both of your realities and both of your experiences connecting. So it's really such a beautiful concept. That's fascinating. It seems like Plato combines what's, I guess,
00:31:27
Speaker
we would use the Darwinian instinct with more of a something intellectual or something more. This is more than just X what I'm seeing as you know, on face value, right? And so that that's, that's a very interesting concept. Because I guess the concept of love is, is in a lot of ways, very philosophical. And it's hard to interpret. And it's very subjective. It's
00:31:55
Speaker
It's hard to put a definition around it. And I think that's really, when you think about love in that way, I think you're hitting the nail on the head with the idea that love is a certain sensation or the experience of a sensation
00:32:13
Speaker
Based upon the stimulation you're encountering, you know, and I think when you are trying to deconstruct that there's a lot of ways you can try and personify it or or try and cater it to a certain type of
00:32:31
Speaker
process or even a certain type of thinking and inclination of like either an emotional spiritual or just physical sort of impulse. But love is such a broad concept and it just takes so many different accounts.
00:32:49
Speaker
Like even oddly enough I'm thinking about like the theologian C.S. Lewis who wrote the Chronicles of Narnia and he talks about the way in the Bible, the Hebrew Bible, how love has four definitions, sometimes five definitions depending on what, you know, if you're a certain Hebrew scholar who's looking at the different translations of love.
00:33:13
Speaker
And this kind of makes me think of like agape love which is this type of selfless love something that is more of like a nurturing or Paternal type of instinct of this kind love is universal and it's attributed to so many kinds of loving relationships but it's more of this idea of like nurturing a certain connection and Nurturing a certain sensation because of like a real endearing servitude
00:33:41
Speaker
to a person that you care about. And that's kind of this idea of agape love. You're pouring out yourself in this service and this sort of appealing to want to be there for somebody. So that's kind of thinking about some of the more biblical or religious ideas of love and that sort of philosophical canon.
00:34:05
Speaker
Right. But I think also if we are to talk about Plato, we should talk about Aristotle, right? Oh, we've got to. We've got you. Oh, geez. So, um, with like Aristotle and Nicomachean ethics is really where you're going to see a lot of those ideas of relationships and the ideas of love and
00:34:27
Speaker
thinking about passion and thinking about friendship. So, philia, philia means love. The idea of philosophy is a love of Sophia, which is knowledge or insight or sophist, right? The sophist are the knowledge holders. So, philia, love, sophia, knowledge, love of knowledge, philosophy.
00:34:50
Speaker
just in case you wanted some etymology in this art pop tart. So with that, you know, fellia love is really kind of this relationship between lifelong friends.
00:35:09
Speaker
It could be in religious society, it could be in fellowship, it could just be in the bond that's created in these sort of mutual connection and even the discourse of this connection, but being in a shared experience.
00:35:25
Speaker
When Aristotle talks a lot about love or friendships in Nicomachean ethics, he's referring to the state or the polis, which is, you know, the central area within a city sort of environment. So a lot of his ideas were really trying to attribute to political life or the idea of like, let's say, even if you and I were senators for ancient Athens, but we were adamantly opposed to each other's views, we could still have a very interesting bond and friendship.
00:35:56
Speaker
So there's this sort of mutual affection and also mutual exchange of respect for one another. And together, you're willing to wait for one another. You're willing to be patient with one another and be invested in still having interest in somebody because you're always trying to put your best self forward for this genuine friend you have. So that's kind of some ways Filia works in Aristotle's definitions and such.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah,
Philosophies of Love: Metta and Authentic Love
00:36:25
Speaker
and these are all very interesting points. I guess I'm curious, have you heard of the Buddhist definition or way of love called Metta? Yeah. Okay, good. Are you like talking about the meditation practices of Metta or more so like the like reciting of Metta? Because I think there's a lot of ways where Metta comes into the practice of generosity or this sort of
00:36:52
Speaker
Patience and giving or just this sort of yielding to other folks is that what you're kind of relating to or yeah, it's really both of what you just said it's it's really a Sort of a meditation
00:37:08
Speaker
Really selflessness sort of love so I can I can sort of walk you through briefly on how the meditation work, right? So you you would start on the meditation just you know, closing your eyes instead of thinking about your regular Meditate mindful meditation that maybe some of the viewers have been exposed to as it has been famous in the last couple of years or so in America
00:37:30
Speaker
So you'd close your eyes and then you'd imagine someone that it's easy to feel love for. So it doesn't have to be your significant other. It could be, you know, your mom, your dad, the person down at the grocery store that you always say hi to. And then you just wish them well and wish them happy. And then you keep focusing on that notion and you just try your best not to get distracted from thoughts and you think about that. And then you graduate into thinking about someone
00:38:00
Speaker
who it's harder to love, someone you may have ill feelings to, maybe not right away, you know, someone who is super hard, you know, if you were in an abusive relationship, try not to go there, maybe start with something easier and then work your way there eventually.
00:38:17
Speaker
And then you you wish them well and wish them happy, you know, just truly feel that that's what you want them to to be well and happy, right? The complete yielding of your implicit biases towards people. And that's the beautiful part how it ends really, because you would think it's selfless. And, and once the last part of meta usually ends with yourself.
00:38:42
Speaker
take the last minute or three minutes, however long you're meditating, and now wish those things for yourself.
00:38:51
Speaker
You know, and that's where it should start. It should start from yourself. You have to love yourself first before you could radiate out to other people, right? And what it really gives is it gives you a peace of mind. And it's such a beautiful notion of love where we're really extending love's arms to every human being in this world. And it harps back on the notion of kindness and compassion should be shared with the world.
00:39:21
Speaker
But you have to start with yourself. I really feel like I resonate with that. It actually kind of reminds me of, I was telling you, I think I've told you before how when I was living in China, I was predominantly studying economics and finance, but every single weekend as a religious studies and philosophy major, I was in a monastery or a temple.
00:39:46
Speaker
and I was actually able to sit at a temple in Chengdu which is in the Sichuan province of China and we were with a yogi from Nepal and there was also the I guess one of the monks of the monastery leading the guided meditation or just meditation practice at that time
00:40:11
Speaker
But just talking to both of them, I was talking to the yogi and he was saying, you know, my religion is, I love you, you love me. I love you, you hate me, I still love you. And I think, you know, thinking about the way even religion kind of works in these ideas of sacrifice or sentiment and service, the idea of love in general,
00:40:37
Speaker
is this concept of almost this unconditional stance of acceptance and warmth towards your fellow, you know, your fellow neighbor and making sure that there's still a sort of yielding to even if you have certain frustrations and you're imprinted in some sort of negativity, you still come to these things in a very authentic and open
00:41:02
Speaker
Sort of demeanor when you're encountering any sort of person, you know, you don't come with it with any sort of bias You don't come with it with any preconceived notion you accept it in that sort of yielding state, right? Yeah, and and no absolutely and you would think it's oh you're trying to do good for others and that's to be honest, that's the point right but
00:41:25
Speaker
The goal really is to the irony is actually you're helping yourself You know, the buddha says holding on to anger is like holding on to hot coal at the end of the time at the end of the day You are the one who's you know end up getting hurt the most And and and that's absolutely true when you when you for example, you know You're driving in the car and all of a sudden someone comes in front of you, right? I catch myself doing that right and all of a sudden
00:41:51
Speaker
you know you your door fans are going a hundred miles an hour figuratively and sometimes literally and you know and and obviously like whoa this person just came in front of me and you go on to you know in your head and sometimes verbally just say
00:42:07
Speaker
how dare that person and then you go on and on. And it's important to recognize that and stop that process versus keep harboring on that same point and sort of making your whole day bad.
00:42:22
Speaker
Well, I think it's also interesting because you kind of are bringing it back to, I think, a little bit of the scientific aspects of it. We're animals at the very core. By our nature, we're animals. So we're very reactive. So as soon as a negative stimulus comes about, it's either that fight or flight sort of mentality.
00:42:45
Speaker
And in that, we have such an inclination to act upon that almost urge or impulse very quickly. And these types of practices or at least these types of ways of trying to nurture your mind as well as nurture your perspectives on love and compassion really make you have to deconstruct what you're getting upset about.
00:43:13
Speaker
Because as you're getting upset about somebody in traffic, you can start to deconstruct that and be like, well, why am I driving when this might be a 10-minute commute if I just walk there? Is it because I wanted to get parking and I could drive back? And there's so many other factors to it. And this is, in Buddhism, this is the idea of we have to extend out of all these different conditional apparatuses to really find that no-self and the idea that
00:43:39
Speaker
You know, we're getting frustrated at a person who came in front of you, but they also are trying to rush to the same place. And if you're getting frustrated, that means you're also trying to rush, right? Right. And we always have, you know, again, it's that Darwinian instinct of us that fight a flight that has made us survive till this very day, as in Homo sapiens, right? And those who actually react to those stressful situations end up, for lack of a better word, surviving.
00:44:07
Speaker
And so but it doesn't again I go back to it doesn't lead us to lead the good life because you know We end up harping on those things and we make our day worse. Yeah Did you have anything else you wanted to linger on the topic of love and philosophy?
00:44:24
Speaker
Well, I think we need to have some lady thinkers in this conversation too. So I did actually pull some quotes and I just kind of want to see what you think about some of these items as well. Let's do it. Judith Butler kind of talks about love is not a state, a feeling, a disposition, but an exchange, uneven.
00:44:45
Speaker
fraud with history, with ghosts, with longings that are more or less legible to those who try to see one another with their faulty vision. And I think this is really kind of honing in on that humbling pursuit to really trying to make sure we're looking at people in an authentic perspective and a very genuine and a very holistic process. Andrew, I'm not gonna lie, that all went over my head.
00:45:17
Speaker
Well, let's go to Simone de Beauvoir. It's been a long Friday. Or wait, Tuesday, right? Let's try this one, the next one. Simone de Beauvoir. So the best kind of love is authentic love. So love authentically involves respecting one another's freedom, being tender and caring, and supporting each other's independent projects.
00:45:42
Speaker
Beauvoir argues that lesbian relationships and friendships point to ways in which we can transcend the bounds of traditional loving roles and expectations and realize something closer to what might be her ideal concept of mature, reciprocal, non-sadistic, and non-misogynistic mutual respect.
00:46:09
Speaker
uh... by really extending out of these norms and uh... as i think we've had conversations about this you know as we become less confined to traditions because we just are becoming more sophisticated in our processes and the ways we can have the ability to interact with people there's almost i feel a certain moral obligation to be able to extend those realities
00:46:35
Speaker
to provide for the intersections of all types of love, right? Yeah, and really what brought me to attention was, Beauvoir was talking about lesbian relationships and friendships. I'm curious, is that because males are more prone to, you know,
00:46:54
Speaker
are Darwinian instincts compared to females? And is that why that was articulated? I think it could be that I think, you know, also, there is a long legacy in history of just the privilege men have, you know, just in society and in cultures that attribute to a lot of the just disparity that various aspects to constructions of rules and
00:47:22
Speaker
regulations and what we have in legislation right now, just thinking about lawmakers in Alabama. All of this comes into play and I think now that we have more sophisticated knowledge and insights into these perspectives,
00:47:39
Speaker
specifically in relation to a lot of gay and queer understandings and the theoretical frameworks and ideas that are coming out of those areas, we need to now account for the ways we can provide love in all of these facets. Absolutely. That's fascinating.
00:48:04
Speaker
Um, so, you know, we have some time, but, um, I was thinking maybe we can take a lead tool break. And when we come back, maybe we talk a little bit more of like the commercialization of Valentine's. What do you think? That sounds good. And here's where we queue.
00:48:54
Speaker
Well, welcome back everybody. So transitioning from our very deep and philosophical thoughts that Theban and I love to just banter about, we will go to Bianca and Gianna's relatives' houses and we'll be sitting on the couch for like three hours and everybody's like, you have to come in and socialize with everyone else. So we get in trouble for this a lot.
00:49:18
Speaker
not just that and I just feel bad sometimes the conversations we get into are super fascinating for me on my end at least and of course but it sounds very in some ways heated and people think like what's I think people think that what's happening with those guys there are they like
00:49:34
Speaker
Getting into an argument. No. No, it's this is the most passionate. This is the beautiful passionate intellectual argument that we get into It's the filia that we have for each other. It's the filia It's it's wanting to at least on my end It's just wanting to listen to a different side of the story and and wanting to get you the objective reality truth Of course objective reality truth is all we want here, right? So thieving, you know, you're a finance guy. Am I?
00:50:06
Speaker
So I have some finance stats and I just wanted to run those through with you and just see like if any surprise you I'm just curious I wanted to I just want to entertain myself of what you might think what some of these yeah, so Like after I go through these maybe we we can even talk about you know, like just the financials and commercialization of Valentine's.
Commercialization of Valentine's Day and Future of Dating
00:50:26
Speaker
Let's do it
00:50:27
Speaker
All right, so Theven, you know, according to WalletHub, people spend on average $164 on Valentine's Day. And this is a study from 2021. This equals a total spending of almost $22 billion. You know, Hallmark will offer approximately 100 or 491 different types of cards in their stores. That's so much printing. That's like just so much content.
00:50:57
Speaker
I feel like it's probably wasted. In addition to this, $23.9 billion is the total Valentine's Day spending projected for 2022. And this is moving the amount spent per person to $10 more. So we're looking at $175 per person celebrating.
00:51:26
Speaker
Um, another very interesting stat, and I'll be curious what you think about this. Um, men will spend almost twice as much as women will on average with Valentine's day. So, um, $235 is typically the average that men spend as compared to women who spend 119. Is that accurate for you? That seems, that seems like it, right? We would, we would want to think that America in some ways, what's that's harping on is, uh, you know, men were still in some sort of a traditional relationship.
00:51:56
Speaker
kind of phenomenon, although, you know, looking at how much women spend, I guess, you know, men spend almost twice what women spend on Valentine's Day. So that makes sense, but also to the, you know, the previous stat, $23.9 billion in spending just for Valentine's Day for one day event. One day. That makes sense, right? Because first of all, that's what's driving the American economy.
00:52:25
Speaker
It just feels like a lot for just one day and then stuff. It makes sense. I mean, it's what you would do on a good date night out, right? You were fancy slacks. I just want to pay away. But that is also because I only owned a bike.
00:52:43
Speaker
And so it'd be weird to wear like a fancy outfit and then ride on a bike to pay way. An interesting fact, specifically in relation to our sort of online dating history, 26% of marriages
00:53:04
Speaker
are now sharing the beginning of occurring from being online so i thought that was a really interesting fact now that they pulled from 2021 yeah i i thought that you know that's pretty that's accurate right and i think the world is only going to get more and more
00:53:22
Speaker
For lack of better words online dating, you know, it's gonna be a more prevalent thing how people meet and actually funny I have a quick story actually I had a girl that I dated on tinder and you know, it went well I thought Conversations were good and thought we were hitting it off when a couple of dates and then all of a sudden she said oh This this is not gonna go anywhere, right? I mean we met on tinder. Of course. It's not gonna go anywhere and
00:53:46
Speaker
And at that time, I didn't really have an answer. But now I'm like, that's pretty sad, right? You have a notion on how you're supposed to meet the significant other, you know, one beautiful fine day at this park when the birds are chirping and the sun is just barely hitting my face.
00:54:05
Speaker
I went to reach for something in the pond and all of a sudden this guy touched, grazed my hands and that's how we met. It's obviously not the case for anyone. It's interesting. It's almost like it's become the opposite. You know, people are very, at least from what I've seen, at least with Gen Z maybe, and I might be making a broad generalization here, but it just seems like, you know,
00:54:31
Speaker
meeting people in real life or meeting people at the bar or at a club just doesn't seem as feasible or realistic anymore. And that also can have many variables. That could be the pandemic, that could just be the way young adults are communicating these days. But yeah, it just seemed interesting to see that over 25% of marriages at this point
00:54:58
Speaker
are now beginning online is pretty, pretty significant. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder like, you know, we're, we're currently the youngsters and you know, when, once we get old, our generation gets old, all of a sudden I wonder if, you know, we will be like frowning upon people who met on the metaverse. Oh, you met in the metaverse. What? You know, during my day, we had this dating app and that was how people do it.
00:55:23
Speaker
It's always reaching for modernity, I suppose. Yeah. Well said. So Thieben, another really interesting fact, especially given the online dating items that we've kind of been talking about so far, between February 1st and February 14th, there is an overall 33% increase in online dating activity for such a small window, that two week window.
00:55:51
Speaker
That's fascinating. I wonder if that is due to people just feeling alone, FOMO. I'm sure a lot of people know what FOMO is. Is it FOMO or is it just, you know, people just want to have something to do that day. You know, I hope it's not that, right? People just want to have something to do that day so that they can show the world maybe themselves more deeply that they have something or someone to be with.
00:56:19
Speaker
I wonder if dating apps have any promotions during this time. I'm sure they do. I'm sure they'll leech on to this fantastic opportunity. Exactly. I'm sure. It makes sense though, right? If you're a business and that's what you do, you see that stat 33% increase, you're definitely one
00:56:38
Speaker
more traction in terms of more traction, you'll have, I'm assuming on a business perspective, you'll have more companies come in and market stuff like, you know, buy flowers, an online flower delivery app, you know, for example, you know, that would be such a marketing for a online dating app.
00:56:58
Speaker
For sure, for sure. Um, I think this is my final step. Um, so I'm sorry, I should've came, I should've came up more. So, um, this is actually very, very interesting and, um, we can kind of unpack this a little bit further. We can lead this into, I guess, a sort of wrap up conversation. Yeah. So, um, 58% of Americans say that romantic gestures are more important to them now than they were pre pandemic.
00:57:28
Speaker
Hmm. I'm interesting. What do you mean by romantic gestures?
00:57:34
Speaker
I guess that would probably mean maybe buying flowers or maybe gift giving, potentially providing either sentimental cards. I'm not sure exactly what that looks like, but I would suppose romantic gestures might even be the way you had the Airbnb when you went out to Arkansas. Yeah, so things like that I would suppose are maybe
00:58:00
Speaker
with this pre-pandemic or interim pandemic experience. Yeah, there is no post. Yeah, I don't know. That's that one stat that you have to add that.
00:58:14
Speaker
Not to say it doesn't make sense, but I'm more curious. Why do you think that is? Yeah, I'm curious if maybe people feel like the idea of pre-pandemic maybe getting into relationships or making connections was a little bit easier.
00:58:34
Speaker
As I was saying earlier, thinking about just communication now with young adults, it's not monolithic, but I was saying that it seems like most of that happens within virtual spaces. So when those virtual spaces and those interactions are happening in that forum, thinking about how isolatory that might have felt while being in the pandemic,
00:59:02
Speaker
it might be that a romantic gesture really does stimulate a romantic experience or relationship if you are either just beginning a relationship during this time or possibly just working through stuff because everybody almost has such a null or it's been so stagnant with any sort of
00:59:27
Speaker
stimulation or trips or activities happening during the pandemic that something like this may feel really fulfilling or provide a lot of experience and positivity when engaging with something like that. So I'm guessing that that's my that is my scientific hypothesis. Yeah, that makes sense to me after okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:59:51
Speaker
Well, even yeah, thank you so much for processing some of those stats next time when we talk I'll have some more stats for us to engage and we can start to dissect some of those things and see what we're thinking but I guess you know as we're wrapping up this episode I Was just curious. What are you actually gonna be doing for Valentine's Day and this weekend? Yeah, great question So
01:00:17
Speaker
Valentine's is on a Tuesday and my boss for Christmas gave me a $100 gift card to a really nice steak place. And so I guess and they have this thing called a Tomahawk Tuesday, I believe the last I checked. And it's something like, I don't know. We love indigenous terminology. Is that what it is? Oh, boy. No, I mean, it makes sense, Oklahoma.
01:00:42
Speaker
I hope it's accurate if the owner is, you know, indigenous in a way. So we're doing that. I didn't know. Thanks for bringing that to light. But so we're doing that. We're also celebrating our five years of dating. And Andrew, guess what date did we, you know, I guess officially, you know, said, well, yeah, officially start dating in American terms.
01:01:10
Speaker
Oh, man. So wait, like what date? Like, like, what is what else? February the 12th is when I was gonna say it was the Super Bowl. Correct. Close. Close. Oh, yeah.
01:01:26
Speaker
Was it the day before the Superbowl? I know the Superbowl is significant because Bianca always said that Lady Gaga was performing for the Superbowl and that was the first time she met you. Is that correct? That's right. It is actually the day, February the 12th, look this up folks, is Lincoln's birthday. Abraham Lincoln. My man Crush, my favorite president.
01:01:51
Speaker
Let that out let the world know you're hearing you know the audience is gonna be an uproar They're gonna be like don't have these two on What about you Andrew
01:02:07
Speaker
What are you doing? Yeah, I am very excited. I get to escape work a little bit. So, you know, being cooped up in the college at Emerson has been really good. I work at Emerson College for folks who don't know, and I work in residence life. So I manage a residence hall with about 500 something
01:02:32
Speaker
undergraduates which can be very fun but also very tiring at some time. So I was able to get a little bit of a getaway and we actually are hiking it up to Vermont and we're taking a nice lovely weekend trip up to Vermont in a little cabin which is kind of right in South Burlington
01:02:55
Speaker
And we're going to be doing Burlington. We have a brew tour scheduled. So we're doing four breweries and we get about like 16 different taste tests for all the different types of brews we're going to be having. We're going to the Teddy Bear Museum. We're going to be checking out the Ben and Jerry's factory and the Flavor Graveyard.
01:03:16
Speaker
So it should be a lot of fun. I'm hoping to meet my Man Crush Monday and my favorite, not president, Bernie Sanders. Dang, I didn't know you both were doing that. You are totally contributing to all these averages being really high.
01:03:38
Speaker
Oh, I most definitely am. I am definitely part of the percentile that have made the $10 increase, for sure. If I've heard anything about Vermont, it's nothing but a beautiful, breathtaking place.
01:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited. We're doing it kind of in the off season, but not totally off season because Vermont's kind of known to be like a snowy tourist destination too. So because of all the skiing, so we might be able to just like maybe see some of the ski resorts and see like some of the folks on the slopes. That'd be pretty cool. But yeah, I'm really excited. And then we may try and get to Montpellier as well, which is
01:04:25
Speaker
further down the highway which is the capital but i think it's relatively small so there's not too much i think to do there but we definitely want to at least get as much as we can done in vermont as possible we're so close to montreal too so i might i might bring my passport but you might you might see some truckers there
01:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, we most definitely would. We'll save that for another episode, huh? Yeah, for sure. Well, Theven, thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate doing this with you, and I hope we were at least
01:05:06
Speaker
somewhat entertaining. We don't have to be as entertaining as Gianna and Bianca, but hopefully everybody got to enjoy the episode. Yeah, I think so. You know, again, I go back to my biggest fear. We'll hit pause and we'll do some editing with the videos here and nothing will be heard. I'll be like, oh no!
01:05:27
Speaker
Oh, boy. Well, everyone, thank you for tuning in. Well, Bianca and Gianno will be back next week for you. Yeah. Take care. Bye, everyone. Bye. And stop, right?
01:05:53
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
01:06:24
Speaker
you