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Toxic Scribing w/ Clinton Dorsey
4 Plays10 months ago
Our buddy Clinton Dorsey of Dorsey Trim and Millwork joins us this week on the show.
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Introductions
00:00:28
Speaker
The American Craftsman podcast is sponsored by Hayfla. Hayfla offers a wide range of products and solutions for the woodworking and furniture making industries. From hinges and drawer slides to connectors and dowels, sandpaper, shop carts, wood glue and everything in between. Exclusive product lines such as Lux LED lighting and Slido door hardware ensure that every project you create is built to last. Learn more at hayfla.com. I keep forgetting about the James Brown that I stuck in there.
00:00:58
Speaker
Welcome back to the show. Yeah. Joined by our buddy Clinton today. Clinton Dorsey, is it Dorsey Millworks? Yeah, Dorsey Truman Millwork. Dorsey Truman Millwork.
Journey into Carpentry
00:01:09
Speaker
I guess we should, we should give it to you to introduce yourself and tell everybody, you know, about, you know, who you are, what you do, and then we can talk about whatever.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm Clinton Dorsey. I'm from Ridgewood, New Jersey, Bergen County, about 15 minutes from the GW Bridge. I own Dorsey Truman Millwork. I've owned it for five years. Started out kind of just doing any kind of finished carpentry. One thing led to another. More people started asking for cabinets. Now I'm sitting on a 3000 square foot cabinet shop.
00:01:50
Speaker
where we fabricate mostly face frame, inset cabinets, some overlay. Um, yeah. And actually I just kinda
00:02:05
Speaker
I guess you could say merged with someone, um, where I'll be giving up the admin end of the business, which I'm more than thrilled. Yeah. And I'm just going to be embracing my roots as a just carpenter, woodworker, a lot of, a lot of good advantages. Um, I'll be working in the field a little bit more, which is definitely something I've missed over the last few years of just,
00:02:34
Speaker
every day in the shop and not even really doing our own installs that much anymore. So which is totally fun, which is totally fine with me, but yeah, there's something about just nailing some cedar shakes on the scaffolding that I definitely miss. And yeah, maybe I'll get back to that a little bit.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's like every trim carpenter's dream is to get into the shop and then, you know, then you get into the shop and then you miss or you reminisce about the days of being on site, which I still do from time to time, but now I don't like leaving the shop.
Shop vs. Field Work
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah. We always say that, uh, we always like in a phrase in our shop is the grass is always greener. You spend like two months in the shop and then you're like, Oh man, I really want to get in the field and maybe like the first day or two is good. Then the third day it might be zero degrees outside and you're lugging the tools down the white stairs in the basement and try, you know, it's a finished house. Try not to ding the walls and you're like, get me back into the shop, you know? Yeah.
00:03:33
Speaker
I mean, I've been going to White Opal, this salon, and it's been nice. It hasn't been laborious as an install because space is totally raw. It's, you park right next to the door. So if you leave something in the van, you just walk out the door and get it. And- Yeah, there's nobody else working there. Yeah. So I've got this fantasy version of the install going right now in my head. Yeah. I think back to like the-
00:04:03
Speaker
two months ago in Hoboken. Oh, brutal, yeah. It's crazy. Those were rough. Parking 10 blocks away from, you know, double park in front of the apartment building, unload all your shit, then drive 12 blocks to park.
City Installations Challenges
00:04:19
Speaker
Going up into the elevator, five trips. Oh, man. Working in somebody's house, you know, moving all their furniture out of the way. Yeah. You guys ever work in the city?
00:04:29
Speaker
Like in Manhattan or? No, we got a job that we're bidding right now in Brooklyn. Yeah. But we looked at the streets like a pretty wide street. It looks like there's decent parking. Brooklyn wise. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, never like if you reach out to us and it's in Manhattan or even Brooklyn, like
00:04:53
Speaker
each install, like each day of install, it's like, got to tackle on like 1200 bucks or something because you got to drive all the way up there. You got to park. You're bound to get a ticket. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. We, one of my first things I did when I started my own company, one of the guys that, uh, which we can get into later, later, how I started my own company. But one of the guys that told me, you know, I got a ton of work, you know, we'll split jobs and it worked pretty well, but
00:05:23
Speaker
He got a call from someone in the city to do 56,000 feet of base. And one of those, like, you know, the apartments, they were like townhouses almost. So we were like, all right, give us, you don't have to pay us for one day. We'll come in, we'll assess the situation, see how it is. So we, you know, we had a, got like a little Honda Odyssey, build it up with a couple chop saws and whatever we needed.
00:05:50
Speaker
Holy cow, man. That was the worst. We, we picked, we picked up and left it maybe two or three hours after the base was 12 feet styrofoam. And it wasn't, you know, like the, it wasn't square, meaning the bottom might've been three quarters and the back had like a five ACE piece on the top and a three ACE piece on the bottom.
00:06:14
Speaker
because they needed to like run conduit behind it. Uh, so there's no, you need some special fence. So every single thing, yeah, you had to set up a special fence or, you know, compound bevel miter cut it every single piece 12 feet. They wanted it scribe to the floor. Meanwhile, it was like, also it was like the Serengeti. I mean, there's people, there's hundreds of people running in and out of this place. There's like kitchen installers,
00:06:43
Speaker
It was the elevator. You got to wait your turn. There's like a big, and we just couldn't. We were on like the third floor. So we just trucked all this stuff up the floor. We worked for like legitimately like three hours and just said, this is, there's no way. This would be like a million dollars. They probably found some guy to do it for like next to nothing. Yeah, absolutely. Out of his pickup truck. Not even, he's taking the train.
00:07:10
Speaker
They had one in there that was done already. And that was like the show room show samples, you know, whoever did it, did a pretty good job. Like it was cut to the floor and everything, but, and it wasn't like some, like there was no, you know, you got four walls in here. Like this was, there were closets in and out, you know, bump outs everywhere. Yeah. We got to run some pipes here. Put a little chase in the wall. It was insane. Yeah. I don't like going to the city.
00:07:38
Speaker
I'm not into the whole scribe to the floor thing. Um, I like the look of shoe molding. Like everybody on Instagram hates it. I think it's a Northeast thing. Like, uh, if you go into all these historical homes, they all have shoe molding. Oh yeah. So all that, all the custom homes that I worked on when I was a trim carpenter, he did shoe molding on everything. Instagram is definitely like,
00:07:59
Speaker
made my job a little bit harder with the, oh, you got to scribe this like fascia to the ceiling and not add another piece. Like the ceiling's a little, like we did one job where I was like, you're going to notice everything now that you put this piece of scribe
Impact of Social Media on Woodworking
00:08:13
Speaker
molding up to the ceiling. Of course there's like a giant, no, no, no, it's a new house. It's frame, right? Yeah. Right. Like there was a giant hump in the wall. We're scribing it to the ceiling and you just see a big,
00:08:25
Speaker
That's the problem is everybody wants everything built in and scribed in and half of the, like if you have a level five finish on the walls, okay, good, then it's going to look nice. But when you're dealing with just regular Joe Schmoe or even, you know, these hot quote unquote high end builders, you're just making it look worse because you're now, you have all this, these perfect straight lines of cabinetry that are tying into stuff that's not. So we just did this mud room. Um,
00:08:52
Speaker
I wonder if we had any of that here when you were here. No, probably not. Cause that was, that was a while back. We talked about it on the podcast, but Clinton bought the old edge standard that we had. Um, love that tool. We use it for that. We we've given it like a thousand names. Actually we have some belts that we found. So yeah, actually I'm gonna set a reminder. It's the best pencil sharpener.
00:09:16
Speaker
in the shop. It sharpens like a shank. Remind me in 90 minutes to get the sanding belts. What the hell was I saying? Oh, so we built this, we did this built in and
00:09:31
Speaker
originally, you know, they were supposed to build this mud room, like whatever, let's say 120 inches was supposed to be the overall length. So we had like inch and a half fillers, which standard like, you know, that we're going to terminate into the walls, but it was never supposed to go to the ceiling. Like I put in the thing, crown molding will finish approximately two inches from ceiling just because of that reason, you know, especially crown molding when it has like a quarter inch fillet in the front. Half the time it's fucking gone. Um,
00:10:00
Speaker
So they ended up making the mud room like 128 inches long. So the client, you know, texts me and, um, and says, Oh yeah, it turned out, the room turned out bigger than we thought. So I'm like, all right, so we'll just put finished end panels on it, you know, so it'll just be like sitting, you know, and have like four inches on either side.
00:10:23
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, that's fine. So we go, we install it. And then like two days later, I get a text like, well, my wife and the builder, you know, they don't, they think it looks like something that we just bought, which we've gotten this fucking line so many times. We're like, it just looks like, you know, if it's not built in, it looks like something that you just bought at the store. I'm like, what story buying this? You know what I mean? Ray Moore and Flanagan. Clearly it's not from a store, Bob's. Yeah. So we ended up having to make,
00:10:51
Speaker
these four and a half inch wide fillers for both sides and then like a fascia. So now they're going to run the house crown around it. Um, yeah. So even like when you try and avoid having to do that now, that's what they're, you know, so I guarantee you that the fascia is going to be like the reveal is going to be all cockeyed because the ceiling's not going to be level.
Balancing Client Expectations
00:11:11
Speaker
And then I was going to say, you know, the kitchen that's on the side of that guy's van,
00:11:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah. There was like a three inch from one, from like the tall cabinet on one side and the other side of the L of the kitchen. It was like a three inch difference.
00:11:31
Speaker
up and the, you know, the other cabinets like down where it should be, you know, like, you know, four inches off the ceiling. And it's like, cause he was asking me the same thing, you know, can you run them up to the ceiling? I'm like, look at this. Yeah. It's like, this already looks bad. It's going to look worse when we, you know, it's four inch, you know, three and a half inches of difference.
00:11:53
Speaker
And then you can get into the nightmare of rolling the crown, which is just, oh man, I spent a lot of, a lot of sleepless nights on rolling the crown. And I used to have some builders that would call me and be like, the ceiling is so messed up. Can you come and like try and do what you can with the crown? And you got to like play in the back. I always, this is an, oh, I always cut crown on the flat, which is a hot, hot controversial topic, but I always found it faster.
00:12:22
Speaker
But then that one, you got a cut on the nested, which, you know, you can roll it, but only to a certain extent where it starts to look, you can't twist it so much, especially with these kitchens. A lot of times they come in because these are always like.
00:12:37
Speaker
fabu wood or they come in hard maple, which you can't roll it. I was going to say, yeah, usually it's maple and you get it a lot like on the return on the upper where, you know, where it's returning back to the wall. So you've only got, you know, from the, to the long point, say 18 inches. You can't fucking roll 18 inches. Not a chance. Yeah. Yeah. It's brutal. And I definitely felt victim to like the, when I first started to like the Instagram, like, no, this has to be scribed. And like, I used to build these cabinets with like,
00:13:07
Speaker
eight foot cabinets with like a three inch style that has to be scribed down. And like, that's such a pain in the ass. Just like, just put a filler. Like it's what's the difference? You know, no one, you know, we, we like to put like a little detail on the end of our filler, like where if cabinets are going together to make it look more like a design almost, you know, sometimes we'll put like a little wrap, like a, so it's like step back a little bit.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah, there's just like a one 16th by one 16th groove. So there's like a little line there. It almost looks like some people like that little rat, like a little chamfer. You know, sometimes we do that. I think it looks a little better than just square, square. Yeah. Well, we like that, you know, adding intentional, you know, details so that it looks like this is on purpose.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah. One thing that I really love that someone told me was that he used to call it the museum scene. So like we usually do face frames. So, you know, we do like a quarter inch offset from our carcass to a face frame. Then you have the three quarters that leaves you with about like a half an inch for the end panel. And then we would, you know, you just overbuilt, you know, you scribe to the wall a little bit, but the end panel that faces the face frame has a.
00:14:23
Speaker
one eighth by one eighth deep groove. So it's just, you know, your three quarter face frame, then you got a one eighth by one eighth deep gap. And then you got your end panel and that changed a lot. It looks a lot better. And then you don't have to worry about getting, you know, if your face frame is
00:14:40
Speaker
Right. You don't have to get that one. Yeah. Nine 30 seconds instead of one eight or instead of one quarter, you're going to have, you see that so much on the, on the end panel, but you don't see it at that one eighth by one eighth is there. Yeah. Yeah. We all know that wood moves and you know, so if it looks perfect in the shop odds are six months from now in the client's home, it's not going to look perfect anyway. Yeah. It's crazy how much.
00:15:05
Speaker
even from the shop to the install sometimes. There's so many variables. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we're not working on like dead level surfaces here. Like you can mock up cabinets all you want in the shop, but unless you're doing it on some sort of platform, that's like, you know, it'd be nice to have like some like 10 by 20 platform that was like dead level in, in both directions. You know, one, one kid I know I talked to a lot who's a cabinet maker and Philly, they have a platform just like that where they,
00:15:33
Speaker
mock everything up. But still in the field, it's not. I'm sure it's different. Yeah. It's interesting because you go from that to the home or the site. I'm not sure what advantage that gives you. Yeah, because the site is imperfect for sure. Instagram had really created sort of a toxic thing with this whole scribing thing, I feel. Oh, yeah. And my outlook was always like,
00:16:02
Speaker
anybody can do this. It just takes a little bit of time. But here's the thing, we were talking about it before with like, you know, inset doors. Do you build them big and then scribe them to the opening or just build them exact, you know, build them to the opening and maybe make a little tweak if you have to. The clients are always beating us down on price as it is. So it's like, you think I'm going to spend
00:16:27
Speaker
an hour on one scribe out of your fucking mind. If you want to pay more, that's fine. But we're already giving you more than you're paying for. Exactly. So if it needs to have a 3-32nd gap and get caught, I'm fine with that.
00:16:42
Speaker
I have no problem admitting that. It doesn't need to be a razor-tight scribe every single time. If you can do it and it's effective, if you can do it effectively in a time frame that makes sense, that's good. But you're not going to catch me there all day scribing these perfect. And if it's going to stone, we're going to figure out a way that we don't have to scribe something to stone. Really, the stone should be cut.
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And it's just, it seems like it's just like an ego thing eventually where you're just like, no, I got to get this perfect for myself. Yeah. And then that's why my installs take so long because I just can't, a lot of times I'm just like, no, we got to scribe it again. Like just. That's why I hate installs. Yeah. Because I'm so stressed about making it perfect. Yeah, exactly. You could give it to an installer and they're done like in half the time and come back. Yeah, I guess I see why, but, but the client is. Yeah. Yeah. It's that flabbergasted. This looks so good. You know,
00:17:38
Speaker
It's like that little topper on the bench at Opal. I was like, I asked Jeff, how should I put this in? Like, should I use adhesive? He's like, no, just shoot it in. And the client's like, wow, this looks great. I started to just.
Woodwork Finishing Techniques
00:17:55
Speaker
People be there with the Lamello, Tenso, snappin' it in. $10 in connectors and an extra at 90 minutes. Easy. Those Lamellas here. That's another thing that's getting all crazy with the Lamellas. Took me all like five minutes to put in.
00:18:13
Speaker
Save the time for the things that matter. Exactly. And this is a commercial space. The client is never going to see six nail holes that are filled with wax in the top. And even if they did, from here to here, you can't see it. You'd have to be on top of it examining. Looking straight down. Yeah. And that wax actually looked pretty good. I was surprised because you know the pattern, but
00:18:37
Speaker
And it's going to be all jacked up in a month anyway, because customers in there are going to be whacking it with. They're putting up all three up. You're not even going to see that thing. Oh, they are. Yeah, I didn't know they were doing it in there. Yeah, that's what they told me anyway. Mudroom like we know.
00:18:52
Speaker
You could put a mudroom in that's finished and then one month, all these shoes are over there. These kids are just knocking into it. Yeah. The house cleaners are going to come crash the vacuum into the baseboard and all the heel mocks. Yeah. Oh, forget it. Yeah. It's crazy that, but yeah, I definitely fell victim to that for a while. And now I've just, I realize that it's just, it's just an ego thing. You know, it's not worth it. And
00:19:21
Speaker
It's just for yourself almost, it seems like. Yeah. The client's expectation is so much lower. Yeah. And it's not like we're, you know, people might hear that and they're like, Oh, these guys are ripping off the clients. Like, well, no, you know, until people are ready to pay what it takes to do this work, why should we be giving it away for free? You know what I mean? Yeah. That's a good point. You have to give them what's proportional to what they paid. So, um, first and foremost, people want the design that they want and the materials that they want.
00:19:50
Speaker
That takes precedence. So you want us to paint this? That's a time consuming and expensive process. So you're going to have to sacrifice somewhere else unless you're willing to spend more money. You can't get everything. You can't get the price that you want, the finished, and have everything be 100% dead nuts perfect on install. There has to be somewhere where you're making up that time. Are you guys still doing your own finishing?
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah, we actually we got into painting and it's we're having issues with bubbles still. I don't know what it is. It's tough. It's a real.
00:20:28
Speaker
I remember I thought like, Oh, I'll just spray this cabinet. And it came out just so horribly. I guess that's why people do this on the side or yeah, not on the side, but exclusively. Yeah. Yeah. You use a finisher, right? Yeah. Yeah. I've go from a couple of different ones, but I got one main guy now Academy, you know? Yeah. This guy's pretty good. And he takes the time to, I know some finishers, you give them a piece and they don't even sand it or anything. They just spray it. But this guy really takes his time and
00:20:58
Speaker
until he's meticulous and wants, he wants it to look as good as you want it to look, you know, which is huge. Some of these people just spray and pray, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's I was, we had Jackie from timber. She's the finisher over there. It's a shop down the street.
00:21:14
Speaker
She was here yesterday. I asked her to come by and help me out trying to figure out this finish with this new turbine and everything. And how was I going with this? I was telling her like I'm at the point where
00:21:29
Speaker
I know too much, but I don't know enough. You know, it's like in the beginning, I sprayed a bunch of stuff and got pretty good results. And it was just like, like total luck, you know, it was a fluke. And then I learned a little bit more. And now I think I know too much. So like I have there's I'm introducing too many variables because I'm like, I got to tweak this. I got to tweak that. I got to do this this way. And it's like, you know, you always hit that middle point where you haven't reached the point of knowing, but you know too much to like just
00:21:59
Speaker
get dumb luck and be able to do it. And do you do it because you like to do it or is it the price? Because it's pretty affordable to get, I mean, like if I sit down and break the numbers, like there's no way I'm going to get one to pay my guys to spray it. Two, to get it good enough. And three, like if I just send it to the guy, like at the set price and if something goes sideways, it says problem.
00:22:27
Speaker
That, and it's just, it's better and it's cheaper. Like, because for me to spray it, I don't, it's going to take way longer and it's not going to come out as good, but you do it. But I would, I've always dreamed of keeping it in house because one, for the timing, two, you're always going to get a, if you spray your own stuff, but it's kind of like the install, you know, like at what point are you just over complicating the process?
00:22:55
Speaker
Sometimes it would be good to have almost like a objective person spray it or install it because they're not spending an excess amount of time on something that doesn't matter, you know? Yeah, I think it's a combination of factors. I mean, we've looked to try and find finishers in the past and haven't been able to find them. That's a real problem because there's not a...
00:23:17
Speaker
Especially like around here, like maybe up by you there might, it might be a little bit easier, but like this is like a wasteland for shops, you know, for that kind of thing. Finding somebody with the facilities to do it. Yeah. Like we could probably find someone to do it on site. Like if we install stuff in the raw and, but I think that's just like sort of a flawed system. You know what I mean? Like nothing's getting back primed. Yeah. That's a real hot topic. Um,
00:23:42
Speaker
We do a lot, a mix of both painted onsite and pre, and you know, pre sprayed. Um, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Um, I personally like to get it sprayed before it's,
00:24:01
Speaker
It's less steps. You don't have to go back to do the hardware. You don't have to come back after they paint the doors to adjust them. You know, there's a lot of things that clients don't want to be inconvenienced like that either. Like, you know, we've, we've run that by clients before. Like, Oh yeah. Like we probably have it like, you know, finished on site. It's like,
00:24:18
Speaker
You know a good paint job takes multiple days because you're in their priming you gotta let it go you know and then all the sanding all the dust i mean the amount of dust that's created just between primer and top coat in the shop is insane.
00:24:33
Speaker
So you offered, yeah, you'd really have to find somebody that you trust. And then, you know, you want to spray high quality wood coatings. Like you don't want somebody on site spraying fricking whatever latex paint on your stuff. And another factor for us is always like, now we got to either have somebody pick all this stuff up or we got to bring it somewhere to them. And then like, what if you forget a part or you got to remake a part?
00:25:03
Speaker
with that. That's why it was good that my one finisher is pretty close.
00:25:08
Speaker
He used to be a lot closer to my old shop, but this is still 20 minutes away, which adds up a lot. But I'm, I'm forgetting parts all the time. Thankfully he lives close to where I live. So if I forget something, I'll put it in the van. I'll just drop it off in the morning. Um, it's like, you got to not damage any of that stuff and all those trips. So now it's going from here to there, back to here, then to the house. And it's like, it's a lot of trips to not like mess something up. It would be great to keep it in house and
00:25:36
Speaker
I wish I had the talent to spray, but I do like it. And it's something now that I'm like determined that I'm going to figure out. Yeah. I've sprayed a few things for myself or just done if it's raw, you know, stain grade, but, um, that's definitely something I'd be looking forward to in the future to at least hire someone that has the talent to do that. And you could kind of absorb his knowledge and
00:26:02
Speaker
And what do you guys do? Do you close off the shop? You have a booth somewhere? I remember you had that, uh, yeah, we have, we have a booth now.
Shop Maintenance and Health Concerns
00:26:10
Speaker
Um, so like until you get to like that final top coat, I feel like you can kind of be, you know, you don't want to be making like insane amounts of dust and stuff, but like you can be fairly, um,
00:26:25
Speaker
whatever conservative with the amount of work that's going on in the shop. But then it's like that last coat and we're using water based stuff. So like it dries in like 10 minutes. Yeah. So it's like, if you have like 10 minute window, like you can get, get something sprayed and put it on the rack and 10 minutes later, it's, it's impervious to dust. Yeah. Just hit it before lunch or something. Yeah.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely something I'll be looking at. And you guys have a lot better dust collection than I do. My dust collection is really lacking. We just got the individual dust collectors on machines, but our table saw is just spewing dust out.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, it depends on what you're doing. It'll come off the top. You don't have any, you know, overall I'm on it on any of our machines. Yeah. I was cutting that particle board this morning to, uh, we're sending back the mom port laser. Everybody is finally leaving the shop today between 10 and.
00:27:18
Speaker
between 10 a.m. and 16 p.m. is what they said. Straight from the Chinese email. 16 p.m. That cracked me up. Or maybe it said 16 a.m. I forget. It was 16 something. Big time window. Yeah. So yeah, that's leaving. But we forgot to put the honeycomb in there. So I was ripping this three quarter particle board that came as dunnage. And yeah, it was throwing like an insane amount of dust off the top. You ever look at the overarm table saw ones?
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah. They're just kind of like in the way. Yeah. They're pretty expensive too. I couldn't, I saw like a, you know, pretty nice one. I think it was like $400. Yeah. It sounds like a lot, but at Tom's he had that Excalibur one, the yellow, which is a pretty common one, this big yellow one. And it's like, if I had a dollar for every time I had to take that off for whatever cut I was doing, you know,
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, I have this thing like I want to see my hand all the way through. Yeah, exactly. On our slider, we have that, you know, the shroud. And I'm, you know, my one guy is like super dust minded. He's always putting that thing as close to it as possible. And I'm just lifting it up, putting it on the side, you know.
00:28:33
Speaker
That's hard when you work with two different styles. I should wear a respirator all the time, but you guys wear masks?
00:28:41
Speaker
No, like when I'm spraying or like if I'm doing something that, like if I have to do a lot of something that's generating like a lot of dust, I'll put it on sometimes. But like I, I'm, thankfully I feel, I'm feeling better today than I did yesterday, but like, so Rob had to rabbit all these white oak frames that are over there on Friday. And it was making, like it made a lot of dust. There was dust everywhere, huge. And like I was getting a sinus infection from it, like starting on whatever Monday.
00:29:11
Speaker
white oak and red oak is really I found red oak makes me cedar for me is the worst like a cedar will give me a sinus infection if I'm working with it just a tiny bit cedar I was okay it's weird how some people are different with the woods but cedar never really bothered me but the white oak
00:29:29
Speaker
Definitely makes me, it makes me itch too sometimes. Walnut dust bothers me. Yeah. Walnut. It's like spicy on my skin. Like the dust is actually, I feel like burning my skin. Yeah. We just did a walnut island and I love that wood. I love working with it. Yeah. It's nice to work with. I like the look of white oak, but I hate working with it. Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, the splintering is just out of control. How many little, yeah, splinters on the edge did you have to fix? A lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could sand a lot of them down, but there's some where I'll put a little filler in there. Like with this undulating, undulating edges because you had to feather this one, you know? Yeah, it's, it's rough. And a couple like, there were like three or four where I had to like glue in a piece and
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a very nice wood. No, especially unforgiving. You don't want a process like that. And like we were just talking about, you know, the color and quality is very inconsistent because the demand is so high and the supply is so low. So was it on the RT? I forget. I was reading something or listening to something they were talking about, you know, so you have the
00:30:45
Speaker
the veneer buyers are willing to pay the most for white oak. Yeah, they're one, right? Then you have the stave makers for the barrels for number two, they'll pay the second most. And then the third is for lumber. So it's like, we're getting the third best. Yeah, I've heard that too. But yeah, my white oak quality is just... It's really dropped, hasn't it? It's not even like quality. That's like an overstatement for what we're getting. What are you paying like a board foot for flat song?
00:31:15
Speaker
sheep, I think like five bucks maybe. Yeah. Is that in the rough or is it dressed in the rough?
Lumber Quality and Sourcing
00:31:20
Speaker
I think I don't even buy dressed. I just can't. Yeah. Yeah. I've never been able to make it work. And that's like, that's like fourth quality. It's like if it surfaced already, that's like even worse than the rough song.
00:31:32
Speaker
I don't know who's surfacing that stuff. Well, they're just sending it through a double cider, so it comes out clean, but it's still like this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I guess we used to buy S2S for face frames.
00:31:49
Speaker
And even eventually we were like, this is just, it's even if it gets attached to a box, like some of them are, the twist is something you can't fix. Yeah. That was my first lesson as a, as a beginner. SLR is nice. So you get one straight edge. But if you're, if you're making like a lot of short parts, it ends up being a lot of waste because they might cut like a three inch crown out of this thing.
00:32:13
Speaker
And like, if you chop that up into 24 inch pieces, you wouldn't have had to lose all that, you know, but, you know, it's a sacrifice of time or money. So I love rough lumber. It's like unwrapping a present, you know, you get to see what's under. Well, I mean, sometimes it's hard because you need a certain look. And like with this walnut one, I had a
00:32:34
Speaker
I had a, you know, just discard 30 board feet of it because the color was so different. And, uh, which I think that's right where you need it to be. We got a dark stains. I don't even think it would have mattered honestly, but you don't want to take the chance on it in a kitchen island. You know, you get one spot that's yellow from the walnut, but I'll make a side project out of it or something. Um, yeah, the wood, the white oak quality is, and I,
00:33:01
Speaker
It just seems like everyone wants white oak. It seems like the Instagram or designer trends just make everything out of white oak. Yeah, they don't want riffs on white oak and they don't realize it's like, all right, well, it's going to be like $11 a board foot cost. Yeah. So I mean, they don't really understand the logistics of cutting it out of the tree. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I do love the riffs on there, but that's even that it's hard to source to where you guys getting it.
00:33:29
Speaker
So we were buying from O'Shea Lumber in Glenrock, Pennsylvania. So our buddy Brian from RT Machine, where we got the band, they started their own podcast and they had Keith on from Lewis Lumber, which is local to them, like Bloomsburg kind of area, Pennsylvania. So we actually...
00:33:52
Speaker
So when we went out to Hughesville to be on their podcast, we went to Lewis Lumber Products first, which was like, what, 10, 15 minutes away? And Keith took us around. They have a full architectural mill workshop. They got wine egg molders and double-sided planers and wide belt sanders, freaking bandsaw. That was like 18 feet tall with like a six inch wide blade on it. So we started buying from them.
00:34:23
Speaker
They deliver? Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's like a thousand dollar minimum for delivery out here. That goes so fast. Yeah. Yeah. So we actually, we only ordered twice from them so far because we haven't been doing a lot of hardwood, but we got a couple hundred board feet of soft maple for painted stuff a while back, which was cheap. It was like,
00:34:44
Speaker
$3 a board foot and really nice. Yeah, it was like basically like hard maple. Not a lot of brown at all. I mean, it was really like, yeah, it looked like hard maple. And we just recently got 300 board feet of that five quarter flat song white oak, which was like, I think 585 a board foot.
00:35:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's not bad. Especially I deliver it and it's, I saw it was pretty nice quality. Yeah. Yeah. And they own some of the, um, what do they call it? Like the, the, I want to say orchard for some reason. Um, forest. Yeah. Like they have like a name for it. Plantation. Yeah. I don't know. Something like that. Where they cut their own wood. Yeah. You know, so they own the mill, they own the, they own some of the trees, the mill, everything. So.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah. It's something cause sourcing the riffs on white oak can be really hard for, but I'll have to check that place out. I use Monteith sometimes. Yeah. God. We got flat saw on white oak this week on special for 12 95. It's pricey, but I don't know anywhere else. Yeah. Well now you do. And that's far from you. It is. That's right. That's right here. Yeah. That's like 20 minutes from us. But I've definitely had to make the trip out there.
00:36:01
Speaker
Um, there's a place by me boards and beams, which makes my teeth look cheap. Oh, they said, I thought they closed for some reason. No, I think they're there. Didn't they get flooded from like the, they they're in that spot. What is that? The Pacific river or something like it makes sense that they would, but, uh,
00:36:20
Speaker
I mean, I haven't been there. One of my guys just went there for a side project to get some pieces. Um, so it's open, but their prices, that's a racket. Yeah. Their prices are insane. Well, you got like Atlantic plywood sells lumber. And like I said, you've had the same issues with Atlantic. I tried calling and they just didn't seem like they wanted any more my business. So.
00:36:41
Speaker
The guy like didn't even have anything to say for himself when I because I finally got a hold of somebody. I called like right at like eight o'clock. I'm like, oh, I'm like, I'm shocked. I even got somebody. I'm like, I keep getting the voicemail and nobody's even calling me back. And I'm like, can you like give me the info for our outside sales rep? I was like, because somebody had told me that our our sales rep left and is working for rugby now. And he's like, oh, yeah, that's actually a position we're still trying to fill. So we don't even have a sales rep.
00:37:11
Speaker
Nobody wants this. I know guys that have been trying to open accounts and they can't even open an account with Atlantic.
00:37:17
Speaker
I don't know what's going on, but this is, I mean, I tried to open an account there like four years ago. I got the same story from people in Massachusetts, in Maine. Yeah. Cause they're all over, right? Yeah. Yeah. Rugby's all over. You know, they got a lot of shot. A lot of. Yeah. It's, it's not like, uh, not like the, uh, relationship we have with, uh, some of our other vendors. Yeah. Yeah. FES has been great. You know, big, I don't know if you buy from FES, but they're now, but I've heard, I've gotten a lot of recommendations from them. Great plywood distributor.
00:37:46
Speaker
You know, I've had we've had issues lately with Wilson are, you know, like nothing's ever in stock. We pick pick something out in the sample chain, which is supposed to be the quote unquote. These are what you stock and they never have it. And they're like, well, it'll be in like January 15th. I'm like.
00:38:01
Speaker
We're not, we're never planning that far ahead. Like I wish that, you know, I need this like yesterday, you know? Like don't you understand cashflow? Like, you know, we're getting paid by the client to start the job. I'm ordering material now. It's not like I'm ordering material now for a job. That's, um, and maybe that's our own fault, but
00:38:21
Speaker
start to store all that stuff. And nobody, nobody's ever contacting us that far out. Unfortunately, I wish they would like, Hey, we got to finish this job in 10 months. It's like, no, we got to be done in eight weeks. Yeah, exactly. I always get those. Oh, can you, you know, now I've been answering the
Craftsman Business Management
00:38:38
Speaker
phone. Like what's your timeline? Word.
00:38:39
Speaker
three and a half months out, 90% of the people like, I need this in like two weeks. Yeah. We're the last in the chain. You know, they go through the, their own discovery process. Then maybe they bring it in a design or an architect, they get everything all ironed out and then they go, okay, let's get somebody to execute. Yeah. Yep. And I think we're just waiting around to build their thing. Yeah. And that's one of the
00:39:04
Speaker
one thing that I'm very excited to not have to really deal with anymore that I'm going to work for someone that that's on someone else's plate now. I'm just in the shop or in the field like I, I guess I was meant to be, you know? Yeah. It doesn't. Well, like you say, the grass is always greener. It always makes me think back to the restaurant days when, you know, you're a line cook and you're,
00:39:28
Speaker
or a prep cook and you're thinking, oh man, if I'm working on the line and then your line cook, oh man, I wish I was, you know, like when I was a chef, I was like, some days they're going, man, I wish you could just go chop onions again. Yeah. Now you're going to be making stuff and something's going to happen. You say, oh, this dickhead in the office. How can we figure out the measurements? Yeah, of course the grass is greener, but just, I wasn't making it money wise. I just never had the, like I have,
00:39:58
Speaker
you know, upwards of 300 books on carpentry and cabinet making and carving. And I can read, I could sit down and read them. I have like 15 business books. I can't get like two pages through them. I'm just not, I don't have that in me to
00:40:14
Speaker
sit down and crunch numbers and analyze how the bill went. Yeah. And you're always trying to put out a fire in the shop, you know? Exactly. Yeah. So it's like, where do you put your focus? Yeah. Like our friend Corey out in Long Island.
00:40:29
Speaker
I was just listening to that on the way here. Yeah. Oh, that episode. Yeah, that was a good one. He said, you know, he, he's went to school for all this and interned and he, he always says, you know, he wished he spent more time in the office and then on that end of things as he was learning. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went to school, I went to TCNJ for finance and I, I mean, I dropped out, but I do have an associates in business and business administration and.
00:40:53
Speaker
That didn't do me any fucking good. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a different part of your brain, I think. Yeah. And I never went like, when I started, I was never like, ah, I guess at points, I was like, I want to open my own business, be a big builder. But then the more I started working, the more I was like, I don't want to leave this. I don't want to, I know what builders do. They put out fires everywhere. They sit behind a desk and.
00:41:20
Speaker
One thing led to another and someone said, Hey, I got a ton of work. I'll support you while you open your own company. And I was like, all right. And it was, you know, you go from making, I think I was making $19 an hour to getting, you get all this money and you're like, Oh, sweet. I'm loaded. But you know, you got to save it for a rainy day. You never know. It's not, it's not like when you're working for someone, you get a paycheck every Friday or whatever day it is. And
00:41:49
Speaker
And you're always trying to tool up, you know, you're like, how do we make this better? How do we make this easier? And then you got to, you know, you're, you're always wanting to invest in new equipment. I got a tool addiction, or at least I did when I had, you know, especially when I first started like, Oh, I need to buy this. I need to buy that. I got.
00:42:09
Speaker
15 different drills. And that was before I even had a cabinet. I mean, now they're useful, but before I even had a cabinet shop, just because I was like, oh, I got to try the new Makita. You know, I got to try the new, the one key Milwaukee. And yeah, but it's, and I like carving.
Tool Safety and Preferences
00:42:25
Speaker
I'm not very good at it, but the carving chisels.
00:42:28
Speaker
Let me get one of those for 70 bucks. Let me get this one for 50, you know, and it's little ones, but they add up so fast, you know? Yeah. And it's like, you can, you, you need specific ones to do specific things. I need a nine sweep for this. Oh, let me buy that. You know, what kind of blades are you using for like on your saws and stuff? Cheap ones. Um, the only one that we use expensive, I guess our slider, you know, our slider one has,
00:42:58
Speaker
I don't remember the name of it, but it's Couple Hundred, I think. What are you guys using? Well, we're going to have to tell you about our sponsor, Ridge Carbide. When you need the right saw blade for the job, put your trust in Ridge Carbide tools. That's right. For over 50 years, Ridge Carbide has been producing industrial saw blades designed with exact specifications for the cutting results you expect. Before you buy, call Ridge Carbide and they'll help you determine the right tool that meets your needs and your budget.
00:43:24
Speaker
And after the sale, Ridge Carbide provides sharpening services for all your saw blades, data sets, router bits, and jointer planer knives. Located in Kansas, Ridge Carbide Tools provides high quality products with outstanding customer service at a fair price. What are you cutting? So we use
00:43:43
Speaker
We mainly use Everlast, which is actually like the parent company of Ridge Carbide, which is like their more industrial line. But we have Ridge Carbide, a bunch of Ridge Carbide blades too. They're great. And they're really, they're not that expensive. No. And you get them sharpened. Oh yeah. Yeah. I never did any of that stuff. I just buy the blade and
00:44:05
Speaker
Discard it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, the expensive ones, I'll get re-sharpened to like the CMT 10 inch. Yeah. I don't like. I'm not sending it back to even the nice, the new, nice new CMT that's like made in Italy that that's not orange. Yeah. Which I hate. It's like if the blade is painted, it's like automatically it screams to me like this blade is bullshit. Yeah. John gave, he actually lent one to us.
00:44:33
Speaker
And I hated that blade. Yeah. It was so loud and it threw so much dust off the top of the blade. I think I used a CMT that was not orange also. I don't, I mean, maybe it was like a chrome finish almost. It wasn't like flat. And I almost cut myself on one. Is it because I will first of all, I'm an idiot. I was using that on like a DeWalt 10 inch job site. Oh yeah. It's like barely spin up that blade. They have like too much power. The only times I've ever almost cut myself, especially when doing trim,
00:45:03
Speaker
You go to a trim job and everyone has these 12 inch DeWalt saws and I like doing shoe molding with those things. But when I started, that's all we use. You could cut your sandwich in half of that thing or a fine piece of trim. And those things are like, they have like too much power, you know, which is good for some, it's like a framing saw, you know? Yeah. They block when you, when you fold the chair so much and the table saw is kind of the same thing. And I was cutting a door.
00:45:31
Speaker
And it didn't have it was getting class, so it didn't have like the middle panel to sturdy it, I guess. And it just picked up and flew back and door shattered into parts. I shot a piece of brass out of the saw stuff like two weeks ago. Yeah, I was that saw stop. Oh, it's great. Great. Yeah, I heard mixed things. But yeah, like they're I'd say runs out soon, right?
00:45:55
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I don't know. There's been, I know Bosch tried to, they got sued. Yep. There's, uh, there's new stuff out of Europe where they have like a shaper and stuff that actually stops. I don't know. I forget what it's called, but yeah. So we've tried, that's an industrial series SawStop. They have the professional series, which, um, we tried and I would not recommend that saw.
00:46:18
Speaker
But the industrial is really, there's so many people who are real butthurt about the whole sawstop thing, which I don't see why. It's like this machismo, like I'm not going to cut myself. I don't need that. It's just, you know, they think that it's all about the safety thing and not about the saw. That saw is better built than the Unisaw. The Unisaw has been the gold standard of cabinet saws for how long? I like it a lot more than the Unisaw.
00:46:48
Speaker
I'm going to have to try one because I think I've heard a professional one. That's probably the one I'm getting the results on. Yeah, that's not the same as the industrial one is five horsepower. This is the three. You can get them up to 10, I think. Really? Yeah. I know they have a seven and a half. I think they might have a 10. Those are three phase machines. Did it ever catch yourself or?
00:47:10
Speaker
No, we've we've set it off twice. Once I was cutting aluminum and there's a bypass mode where you can cut cut conductive. And it was like early in the morning. I was trying to get this bullshit done for like to deliver that morning. Oh, yeah. And I just didn't put it in bypass. And so I set it off that. And then we had scary. Yeah, it's it's it's like a shotgun.
00:47:32
Speaker
And then another time I was just cutting like cherry or something and it went off. And so I reached out to SawStop and they had me send the break in and they're able to like read the data as to like what set it off. And there was like some kind of interference that happened with something and it's just set it off.
00:47:52
Speaker
No, I would love to get one because you can cut your hand at any time, you know, yeah, close calls. It's just a nice machine. Check it out. Yeah. Like if you're in the market for a new cabinet saw, I don't see any reason to not get it. Like it's, it's a great saw. Like take the safety feature out and it's still a great saw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get obviously the benefit of the safety feature. And I saw you guys have the,
00:48:20
Speaker
Like the slide attachment. How's that? That's great. Yeah. For like cutting door parts and stuff. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. That's, that's a couple thousand itself, right? I think that was like, like a thousand or 1200 something like that. That's not bad. It pays for itself really fast. All in. It was like 5,500, I think for the, you know, we have the 52 inch fence with the 52 inch table and, um, yeah, that's what I saw.
00:48:48
Speaker
Yeah. But you mentioned the Powermatic. I bought a Powermatic planer and we send it back. It was, it just wasn't. That's what we have over there. Yeah. The PM15. Some snipe. I mean, it's gotta be sweet. It's just like a regular old. It's not, you know, I used to think when I like first started, Powermatic was like, Oh man, Powermatic, this is like the gold standard, Powermatic, the gold standard. It's just regular, crappy and tight on these tools.
00:49:15
Speaker
We, we could not, we would, we would join a piece dead straight. We were checking with Japanese lines. We brought it to the planer warped and it wasn't, Oh, you know, like it released tension. You know, we got all the excuses in the books from we called, you know, Oh, you're just taking off too much. Like, no, this is not, we had our DeWalt, you know, our old DeWalt planer and we could run the same piece through and would come out straight and the powermatic.
00:49:42
Speaker
Oh, you don't have enough enough, uh, outs out feed support. That's not how that works. We have exactly the amount of outfit support that it comes with. Yes. And, uh, I sent it back, you know, they took it back thankfully, but we got a Laguna now. It's pretty good. Works pretty well.
00:50:01
Speaker
Is it that sheer tech or whatever? I think so. It's got the helical head. Yeah. Yeah. It's fast. I really like and it comes out pretty straight. Very little. Snipe, you know, obviously always going to be snipe, but.
00:50:17
Speaker
I wish we still had the old planner. Which ones you used to have? We had a real time. A York 20 inch, which is just like the same grizzly Shop Fox pattern. And so we bought a Oliver 20 inch.
00:50:34
Speaker
Helical had a planer and the five horsepower shaper and the planer was like a total lemon. We ended up having to send it back. Yeah. And it was like in the middle of COVID and we had to just buy what we could get. So we went to Woodcraft and bought it. I think that's where I got it. Yeah. 15 inch paramedic. That's where I got mine. It was down in South Jersey.
00:50:56
Speaker
uh we went to downington pennsylvania okay yeah i went to the one in i think it was south jersey and they had a pause the one that just opened it was pretty it's very new where's that rockler it might be a rock yeah that might be what it is uh where the hell is that not hillsborough something like that though yeah
00:51:16
Speaker
But yeah, you ever seen those Japanese ones that they're like a true. Yeah. Super surfacer. Yeah. Super service here. Those things are sweet. I think I just saw someone on Instagram, got one, someone that I follow or something, but yeah, it's like this big blade like this. That's, that's an angle.
00:51:35
Speaker
I love that stuff. I always watch like last night I was watching some Japanese guy car. They work so differently. Yeah. It's crazy. This guy was carving something. He's got it on his everything. He's sitting down. He's got it on his leg and he's just banging the chisel like, and it's hitting his leg.
00:51:52
Speaker
I'm like, what the heck is going on here? You know, like- Yeah, the socks with the toe. I was watching something this morning, this guy, you know, cutting a beam with a hand saw and he's, you know. It's great. I would love to go there. You know, quote unquote socks. Yeah. You ever watch Ishi Tani furniture?
00:52:10
Speaker
Now on YouTube, he's got to check him out. He's a more modern Japanese woodworker. Yeah. He's got a lot of older Japanese tools, like machines from like probably I don't know, maybe like the 80s, 90s, you know, when like Hitachi was making like industrial machines and stuff. His stuff's really good. Yeah, I love the old. I used to have a C-10 F-A-S F-S-H. The old Hitachi chops off. Oh, man. That thing was was a beauty. I could cut anything and it was always
00:52:40
Speaker
You know, pretty straight and pretty, pretty true in demand right now. Yeah. Freddie Roman period craftsman posted, I think yesterday, a listing that he found somebody was selling one for 1200 bucks. Wow. It's worth it. I mean, I, uh, we have a Capex, which is another, you know, controversy in and of itself, but it works really well for me, but we had to do a lot of work to it. And those are like, I bought it used. So it was like 1200, but.
00:53:06
Speaker
We bought the KSC 60, the cordless one. How is it? It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to try it out. Yeah. It's perfect for the job. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to like Bobo can, you know, it's on its own self-contained cart. The wings go onto the thing. You just roll it into the elevator, bring it upstairs. We got the Makita one that has the two batteries. The 10 inch one. No, it's seven and a quarter or seven and a half. We looked at that. Yeah.
00:53:35
Speaker
It only bevels one way, which is kind of, yeah, can be kind of annoying. That was like ways to circumvent it. Yeah. One of the deal breakers for us. Yeah. People love them a wall or they did. I don't really follow tools as much as I used to because now everyone just says everything's great. Yeah.
00:53:53
Speaker
but I would like to try the Milwaukee saying it's seven and a quarter that bevels both ways. I can't see it being very good for finished stuff, but sometimes you just got to make a square cut. You know, there's something about Milwaukee that I just don't trust for some reason. I don't know. I mean, it's based in nothing, but now it's, they're so bulky and we have the 15 gauge cordless nailer and we just have like an adapter to take Makita batteries because we have all Makita cordless stuff. Um,
00:54:21
Speaker
And it works pretty good. We have the 16 or the 18 gauge cordless Milwaukee and the things like it. It's like carrying a bowling ball in your hand, but yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, like holding like a skill saw, you know, like an actual, like a skill 77 or whatever. It's, it weighs like 15 pounds. All I care about is it firing. I used to have a Porter cable when they first came out of the cordless one.
00:54:45
Speaker
That thing was heavy too, but it stopped when they use the pinwheel. I think it's a mechanism that, you know, how password uses the.
00:54:52
Speaker
gas, they use the pinwheel. So yeah, but I like it. I mean, especially for, you know, quick install. I got a nail on this end panel, you know, we have the Makita 23 gauge, which everybody flames on the internet and say it's terrible. The one that I bought years ago works great. Never had an issue with it. It'll shoot in the maple and the oak. I've noticed there's a lot of one tool could be just built better for some reason. Like,
00:55:22
Speaker
It's like everybody probably bought it at Home Depot. I didn't get mine at Home Depot. I bought it from CPO outlets or something. Sometimes it depends where you buy it because not all tools are made the same. Yeah. I mean that are, that are the same. Yeah, exactly. And we have that Grex GC1850 18 gauge, which that came out. I used to use some of those when I worked for the trim company. Yeah, that came out probably
00:55:50
Speaker
eight years ago now. I was going to say eight, 10 years ago. So the first one that I had, I bought it when it first came out. Cause like they announced it and I was like, Oh man, I was like, this is sweet. I'm like, I'm buying this. I remember it was like right around Christmas time. I spent like 500 bucks or whatever on that. And, uh, I had a lot of problems with that. Really? I put that and I sent it back and they sent me a new one. No problems.
00:56:11
Speaker
I've always had problems with GREX. The 23 gauge is, I think it's the hardest nail gun to find. What do you get? What do you use for just a cordless one? We have, uh, in the shop, we have an old Porter cable that only goes up to an inch, but it works. I have a Hitachi that goes up to like an inch and three eighths at home. Um, I should just bring the here. It's just sending my garage. Um, and that, that always worked pretty good.
00:56:35
Speaker
I have a Senco. I think it shoots up to like two inch pins. Yeah. But we really don't use the pin nailer. I hate, I hate pin nailer. Yeah. It's, it's not great, but there's times, especially when I was doing a lot of trim, you need it, you know, we use a 21 gauge when I was in the, when I did trim a lot and Kadex used to make their old model. I think I found it on Amazon when there were five left.
00:57:01
Speaker
And I got one. It's not, they made like a new model and it's way worse, but that thing shoots well. It's a good gun. I've been interested in those. Everlast. I remember when they first came around, they got, I don't know the brand. Yeah. They, uh, they were, I think they might've been the first people to come out with a 21 gauge. Um, but they kind of felt, you know, they fell out of a notoriety or whatever, I guess. So you're a Taiwanese brand. Yeah.
00:57:26
Speaker
I've heard that the ones in Japan are sweet like the Makita's that you can buy over there because I use a lot of the safety we always I don't know what you guys do but we always
00:57:38
Speaker
you know, find a way to bypass the state, like our guns, if you just shoot the nail, it comes out. Oh, the Capex. Oh yeah. That top. Yeah. First thing I did was tape that. And then the, I don't know about the other Capex, but this has like a thumb thing on the, you know, you have the top thing and then the trigger, there's like a thumb thing. I ripped it out. We ripped it off and we shimmed the blade too, which is not bad. I don't, I, um, I like having a blade guard on a miter saw the problem. When I went to the company, all their blades were shimmed and
00:58:09
Speaker
I think it's, I actually think it's safer if you learn how to cut with it on like that, but it's not worth the investment of like, if we have a new guy, I'm like, you gotta put the blade down, you know? Yeah. It's just like one momentary lapse of concentration could be bad. Whereas if the blade guard was there, it might be all right. I haven't come with a blade guard and it's gotta be like five, six years now.
00:58:32
Speaker
Remember that saw at Alberino? I was going to say that. Yeah. So we used to, when we were working for the old shop, we worked with this commercial, like GC. We, you know, we were doing cabinet work for him. And so he had his crew, quote unquote. So there's just basically this one guy, the PM, and he had this Ryobi
00:58:53
Speaker
12 inch chop saw with no guard. Like it wasn't even pinned back. It was just gone, but it also opened up like a 180 degree, like a full 90 degrees. So you just had this 12 inch blade that was just, and it was always on the floor. So it was just like right at like, you know, stomach height where I'm just like disemboweled. Like you ever see those battle bots? Yeah. That's exactly what came to mind. I love watching that show. I wish they would just cut out so much of the,
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah. They would just show they're actually battling the box. But now it's like, that's why I have to record it straight to the discovery. I love following those. Jamie likes that. Hunter likes to watch it with him. Yeah. How'd you guys get into this?
00:59:37
Speaker
Uh, well, you were a chef. I want to talk about that. Yeah. Well, I started in the restaurant industry too. Like I was, you know, I was like a waiter bartender. I did like some little bit of management and then, uh, Sandy hit and the place I was working was like totally destroyed basically. So I just picked up like part-time work back in 2012. And then that was it. It was like, and were you like green?
Career Transitions
01:00:02
Speaker
Did you like, Oh yeah. No, I had never picked up a hammer.
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I had a similar similarly green entrance into it. Just, you know, I was a chef, as I told you, and then I thought I got to do something. I'm getting old. I got it. I need insurance. I need all these things. So it's hard to work in the kitchen, right? I've heard it can be. I mean, I really enjoyed it.
01:00:28
Speaker
I always felt it's so similar to carpentry. There's a lot of parallels. We talk about it all the time. I've always was like, if I came back in another life, I would love to be a chef. Yeah. So I taught high school and I moved out to New Jersey and was just waiting for my, you know, my job to turn up. And I just started doing, you know, little projects. And I thought, you know, maybe I could do this while I'm waiting for a real job to happen. And
01:00:58
Speaker
You know, I just learned by, uh, you know, watching new Yankee workshop and making like more mistakes than cause this is all pre internet. Yeah. So, um, you know, a couple of library books here and there and try and expand your repertoire each job. And next thing you know. Yeah. The first, I guess, carpenter job, I dropped out of college.
01:01:25
Speaker
Just cause I got more into the nitty gritty of finance and I was like, I can't imagine myself doing this my whole life. This is terrible. Yeah. Some people are inside folks, you know, like I, I tried working behind a desk and it didn't suit me. And I wanted to do, I was just like, let me try carpentry. And my mom was like, you're not going to like it. And I was like, all right. And I, you know, I called the local guy that my parents use and he didn't have any, uh, availability.
01:01:53
Speaker
I always loved the ocean and boats. So I actually got a job right around here in Belmar, but the guy had bought water. So we were building docks. And I remember the one, the one of the first days, the guy was like, organize the two by fours, you know, separate them. And I was like, I'm so great. I mean, I don't even, my dad, I remember the day before my dad taught me like, all right, here's how you cut with my dad's pretty.
01:02:15
Speaker
It's not very handy, but he knows at least how to use, compared to, you know, kids, I guess, he's pretty handy, I guess, taught me how to use like a skill saw, hammer and a nail. And granted I'm like 22, this isn't like, I'm like five years old. And he's like, all right, organize the two by fours, the five quarter. And I'm like, I just froze. I'm like, I don't know what any of this is. This is just wood to me. But we were building the docks and I was like, man, I love this.
01:02:42
Speaker
This is so much better. Like I felt accomplished at the end of the day. I remember I got home. I was, I've never been that tired in my life and I'd done landscaping, but like I was using my brain a little bit more compared to when I was just weed whacking. And, uh, like a month later, the guy that I originally reached out to you called me back and was like, I got a lot of work. If you want to come work for me, I was like, all right. And, uh, yeah, yeah. And, uh,
01:03:08
Speaker
had a lot of couple of really good mentors in terms of, you know, carpentry and more cap. You know, I didn't really do that much cabinetry until I opened my own business because just more people, you know, can you build me a bookcase? Like, yeah, I could do that. And then, oh, can you build me a kitchen? You know, a couple of years later and it's like, well, which is why I wish sometimes I worked for. Just because I think I can build anything, but like,
01:03:35
Speaker
So many people just know faster ways and more efficient ways to do it. Like when I came back here, we only use the hay full of legs now. I can't believe I ever made a cabinet. It's just, it's so much better, so much faster. You use less plywood.
01:03:50
Speaker
And you can go up and down, like being able to go down is so important. And you were just like, I'm not going to take the cabinet down and scribe the bottom of it. And you could change out the legs, you know, if you really need to, you could put that shorter leg on there. You know, sometimes you get into these houses and the floor is totally jacked. Yeah. Especially like in the city, you know, I worked, worked a
01:04:12
Speaker
did a closet install in the city in the old shop. And on six feet, the floor was out an inch and a half. Like, yeah, it's crazy. Even at Opal, that short run of shallow cabinets, it's like an inch and a half difference from one side to the other. God, it's like less than. Yeah, that's six feet. It is because when I took the notes and I brought them back and I was cutting the toe, I was like, is this right? Because it was like such a dramatic thing. And I was like, oh, well, is this what I wrote down?
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. We use the, uh, a lot of times we use the one of their smaller ones, but we just, if we need to build it down, we'll just put a, you know, four by four block of whatever, you know, maybe two, three quarters, an inch, half inch. They make them up to like eight inches. We use them on these banquettes that we built. Yeah. We use.
01:05:00
Speaker
Seven inch wire, you know, someone's really big for this job that we're on now. They're pretty strong. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can stand up a pantry cabin onto the legs and they won't break. Oh, we've broken a lot of them, but the heifel ones. Yeah. Really? I mean, granted these cabinets were like 10 feet tall. Yeah. And.
01:05:19
Speaker
One of the things that I, the only thing I don't care for is they don't inch and a quarter is not long enough to screw an inch and five aces too long. And we don't really, I never really have inch and a half. Now I do because of the hateful legs, but we didn't have inch and a half legs.
01:05:36
Speaker
but now we have, I mean, inch and a half screws, but now we use, we stock inch and a half for just that purpose,
Installation Techniques
01:05:42
Speaker
really. An inch and a half, like if you overdrive the, so you gotta be like right on. And the plastic is, you know, on the plates, it's like, it will, you will overdrive it. And actually on an island, we just sent, you know, someone else was installing, it was like, what do you think about just drill, instead of putting the block on the floor, he just screwed the legs into the ground. The turning part, things not moving, you know?
01:06:05
Speaker
And I was like, that's a good idea. Yeah. And then you just sit it on top. Yeah. Use like a little washer on top of the, no, no, like the legs were on the cabinet already. Right. And you know, the turn, you know, the part that turns on the bottom, he got it all, you know, level square, plumb, whatever. And then just took like a walk, you know, just fasten that leg to the ground. And I was like,
01:06:25
Speaker
That's a much easier process than screwing some two by fours around. I was like, that's, that's a great idea. Yeah. You could even do it in tile. I get, well, if you could get the drill bit back, you might have to do it before, but I hate screwing into tile. It's brutal.
01:06:41
Speaker
Yeah. I don't, I just don't like screwing into anything that I don't know what's behind there. That's another reason I hate installs. It's like, Oh yeah. The day is going to come where you hit something inside the wall. It doesn't matter how careful you are. It's going to happen. It's happened to everybody. I've had a few things, nothing like, uh, I was in a house once and we were, some kid was making like a cover for where all the baseboard heater, you know, the, I mean, not the baseboard, the, uh, floor heat comes through and he's making a,
01:07:10
Speaker
a box for it and he's putting little nailers in so it can just be screwed in, removed, puts a two and a half inch nail through the floor under, you know, it's in a beautiful house in Franklin lakes and underneath there's a Walnut inlaid floor and waters is pouring through the ceiling. That's why we have insurance. Yep. Yeah. It's, it's so easy to just take your mind off something and just nail it, you know, pocket doors. They're always shoot a two inch nail through there. Door gets stuck.
01:07:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. So what do you got on the bench over there? And, uh, um, we're working on a bunch of projects for a house in Hallworth. Um, I think we had talked about that. Uh, that's one that we bid too. Yeah. Yeah. That was so long ago. Yeah. That was a long time ago. Yeah. No, that one's in there. Um, I got like,
01:08:11
Speaker
eight projects left before I go, but eight units. There's like three projects, a couple of them have a different, couple of different units before I'm hoping to start over there, end of January, a new job. And really looking forward to that, getting a... So you're closing up your shop and going to work. Are you going to be a partner or are you just an employee? No, just an employee. Yeah. So you're going to be like the shop foreman. Yeah. My foreman's coming with me. Nice.
01:08:39
Speaker
So, just continuing what we're doing now, but over there, get a much more steady paycheck. Less stress. Hopefully, yeah. I mean, I'm always the guy that's going to be waking up in the middle of the night. I was going to say, if you stress, you stress. Yeah. But I've been in that spot where I was waking up in the middle of the night and compared to that, you know,
01:09:02
Speaker
If that's a 10, owning your own business is like a hundred thousand, you know, because I got to make payroll. I got to get this guy, you know, at least over there. I know I'm getting my, and I don't mind working. You know, you guys work 70 hours a week. You know, I work sometimes. Yeah. I said to you, I worked three 30 in the morning the other day. It was just.
01:09:26
Speaker
Sometimes you just got to get it done, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like,
Project Management Challenges
01:09:30
Speaker
you know, client doesn't care. Yeah. They don't care what it takes for you to get it done. They just want, they just want it done. And the problem is like, you know, I could be like, well, fuck the client, but there's another client and another two clients, another three clients down the line that are going to get screwed. So I can't screw all these people. It's like, you just got to buckle down and get it out. It's like, you know,
01:09:51
Speaker
It is what it is. It's yeah, it's the nature of the business. Yeah, it is deadlines are part of it. Yeah And I like I don't mind doing that if I'm making a decent amount of money But I'm paying myself like a couple hundred dollars a week, you know, like I'm literally like a slave labor
01:10:07
Speaker
you know like yeah yeah I wouldn't be able to do like this is it wouldn't be legal if I didn't own this business yeah yeah everybody thinks it's it's oh that's more like candy canes yeah people just instantly think you're the owner and you're making like so much money and
01:10:25
Speaker
Or, yeah, you got to do some time material and you're like, oh, yeah, it's, you know, this much an hour and they think you're making that an hour. No, not even like a fraction of that. Yeah. I mean, just the shop, I'm sure your guys is paying a lot. You know, the overhead is pretty. Yeah. Pretty devastating. So how far out are you guys?
01:10:44
Speaker
Uh, right now, not very, we've never been like really that far out. I think at the most we were like six months out at one point. Um, but that's from giving correct prices. Cause sometimes I just, I'll be like, like four months ago, I sent out 10 bids and like 12 came back and it was just like, yeah, we'll do it. And we're going to add on this other stuff. Yeah, exactly. And I just must've underbid.
01:11:14
Speaker
But we're always faced with the challenge of, oh man, especially once we got the new shop where we're just taking on a bunch of new, bigger projects that are taking longer than we think.
01:11:24
Speaker
But why do you think you're, do you think you priced correctly? I think, you know, since moving, we're still getting like a foothold on, you know, like when we left the other shop, that's when we were the furthest out, you know, and there's only so much work that you can do in a shop that size. So it's, you know, it's easy to get six months out in a small shop because you can only do one job at a time. And it's like now we were here and it's like at one point we had like 12 jobs running at once.
01:11:56
Speaker
But just because we can take on more work now, it's like now we're back to where like we're not as far out. But I think eventually, you know, it'll get there. But what's your guys work process? Do you each have your own project? You're working on one together? Kind of. I mean, it works out, I think, kind of a lot like that, where it's like one person takes ownership of one job.
01:12:17
Speaker
You guys are both owners, right? Yeah. But we'll do specific tasks. Like I'll break down the lumber a lot. Jeff does a lot of the drawing. Yeah. You know, he's doing all the finishing. I try to do all the prep work. That's good. You guys have a good system. Yeah, it's good to compartmentalize. How long have you guys worked together? It's been four years in September. We worked together before that, too, for like a year and a half. Yeah, it's real important knowing, you know, my form and I worked together for
01:12:46
Speaker
same amount of time, but I know what he's really good at. He knows what I'm better at. Yeah. Yeah. Like if something comes in and it's like, okay, we're going to need all these parts. Well, then I already are in my head. I'm going to go break down the lumber. I'm going to go. Um, yeah, it helps. Yeah. It's just, you know, you get into,
01:13:06
Speaker
A pace of, you know, a system of a job. And it's like you just want to repeat, you know, these things.
Manufacturing and Commercial Projects
01:13:11
Speaker
That's like with the boxes, you know, it's like so we do those salt boxes there behind you. I think we might have been if we were doing them last time you're here. But I think you were just getting the laser. You just had gotten it, I think. Yeah, now it's going back. You just got it for that.
01:13:26
Speaker
They lent it to you, I guess. Well, they know. So they sent us that and we were supposed to like make, you know, a bunch of Instagram posts, YouTube videos. And the thing never worked. It's a piece of joy. So it's going to some poor sap in South Dakota or something today. I thought it was going back to China, like to the company. But I actually, I messaged the guy because they sent me like the bill of lading and I saw the guy's name. And actually we had talked on Instagram before and I was like, it looks like we're sending you a laser today. Um,
01:13:55
Speaker
But yeah, so like we've done that now three times and there's all these steps, you know, and it's like what we did in the beginning, we're just sticking with that because I learned how to do this one thing and he learned how to do this one thing. Why are we going to now mix it up? And now he's got to learn what I did and I got to learn what he did. It's not worth it. You know?
01:14:18
Speaker
How many of those you guys make? A lot, right? We made 1,000 the first time, then we made 500 and we just made 650. Yeah. And there was extras on all those too. So then like, we probably made like 2,300 or something. Oh, wow. Yeah. You learn.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. You know, your, your part in your part. Yeah. Cause that'll really shorten the time down. Yeah. Yeah. And it's good for you mentally too. So you can gauge what's going on. Yeah. You guys got any cool projects in the work or you just pumping out, what do you guys mainly do? Cause you're like furniture and
01:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, we've been doing like a bunch of like commercial stuff lately show like reception desks or no, like more just like like we're doing a salon build out. We're doing a coffee place like a banquet and some other stuff for that, like all melamine, high pressure laminate kind of stuff like working with that stuff.
01:15:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's not bad. You know, it's like anything. You know, I don't want to do that exclusively. Only that, like it's nice to do that because it's easy and there's no finishing. Yeah, that's that's one thing I love. But then if you do that for the whole year, it's like you're going to get sick of it. So now we got this white oak job. It's got a lot of, you know, there's a couple hundred board feet of white oak in that. So it's nice to do well for those white outdoors one inch. Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:43
Speaker
they look super peepy like even more than one inch for some reason the proportions on all that actually i'll pull up the drawing so you can see what what do you use to draw this is fusion 360 i've heard of it
01:15:58
Speaker
So we're working on, we've got this in the shop right now, a little window seeds, white oak. Oh, that's all white oak. Yeah. The top. And then this is, this will all be painted, um, you know, maple face frame, uh, how we're finding MDF doors. This is the commercial like little bar thing and the bank. Uh, it's like a 24 foot long bank cut. And that's all melamine. Yeah. It's um, an Edgar pattern. Is it hinged?
01:16:25
Speaker
Nope. It's just going to be just, yeah. I hate those. Like, I know there's just not, I have never found like a, we just use cabinet door hinges. So do I, you know, just put a little return down. And then that's exactly what we do. That's it. I still don't like it. Yeah. It's just a, because there's a lot of weight, you know, there's so much weight on the hinge. There's a lot of. Remember that big old bench we built this thing. Yeah. What are you doing for the top? This is, I don't even know what the hell these clients they're, you know,
01:16:54
Speaker
They don't have a budget and they, you know, they only respond to emails like every 10 days. So this project's going to nowhere. But yeah, so this is what we're working on right now. So really beefy proportions. It's six cabinets altogether.
01:17:13
Speaker
Cause I think I saw the doors, but they don't have that. Yeah, not yet. So the, this is just plan for those. I think it was this cabinet. Yeah. So these are just one inch by quarter inch. And I'm thinking probably do a half lap right here. Okay. Um, just because it's going to be easier than trying to put this in and cut this and cut this and cut this because that, you know, you're bound to not have, yeah.
01:17:35
Speaker
Nice tight fitting there. And these are really nice too. I didn't draw the insides, but these will all be on wheels. And this is, this is like covering up an AC thing. Okay. So there's these two HVAC units. Um, because the lady like, can't really get to the window with the cabinets there. So she wants to be able to just like pull them out. That's really, now you design this for them? Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:00
Speaker
charge for that? Not enough. Not really like directly, but, and then we got this mirror wall that goes, it's actually actually on this side, but I just drew it this way. Um, this is all just white Oak. She has these mirrors there already. She just wants something to go on top. Oh, there we go.
Design Software and Techniques
01:18:20
Speaker
That's neat. Yeah.
01:18:23
Speaker
Now, like when you build something like this, does that hit the wall on the right and left side? I made it so that they don't. OK, so I left like an inch here, figure that or whatever, inch and a quarter. So I got like a three quarter overhang on the stone, made these different heights so that they don't interfere with each other here. You know, because the stone is never going to be. Everything's got to be.
01:18:44
Speaker
Well, that helped, you know? Yeah. Because I'm thinking for the install, like, you know, no, they're just going to, they're not even going to be fixed anything. Well, unless, uh, yeah, they are, they're going to be screwed to the wall because there's ST8 on it.
01:18:57
Speaker
How do you like a fusion? I've only have experience in Sketchup and Mosaic. Yeah, we have Mosaic. Fusion's nice because you can draw, you know, this is another thing. It's like a basement. This is, again, it's all melamine. Yeah. Just because, you know, people, the budgets. What are you doing to that corner over there? This.
01:19:19
Speaker
Yeah. What's that corner look like? So they wanted this open, which I really didn't want to do. So I figured this will be Domino's little mellow. And then I drew these which have like a little bit of a taper to them. Like you can see a little bit better there. So this is just split in half. And then I figured same thing, like maybe a Domino from here into the back of that and from here into the back of that. But you know, it's going to be on the thing like,
01:19:48
Speaker
that the shelves might deflect. Yeah. This is like a big span. It's like 50 some odd inches screwing from the back 63. Yeah. So that'll help. It'll be a three quarter inch bag and they're only like 11 and a quarter inches deep. I think. What do you guys do for backs? Applied rabbits. I like applied. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:08
Speaker
I definitely adds more rigidity, but I just, I noticed on the installs, like if you got a big bump in the wall, you're so screwed. Yeah. And you start with one, you know, you start with the wrong cabinet and you realize the bumps, you can look a little bit, but, but apply, you know, we like, we used to do dados. Waste of time. Um, then now if we do, when we do the rabbits, which we just set up the dado plate on the dado stack on the saw and run them.
01:20:38
Speaker
We like that. That works pretty well, but applied is really nice. I just like, when I see this, I get worried. Oh man, what's a wall look like, you know? Yeah. So we, that's why we just like cap everything with a frigging end panel. Yeah. That's got a panel there and a panel on the inside. And you know, you leave those pretty long. Oh yeah.
01:21:02
Speaker
That's nice. You have the edge bander because some other bullshit that we're. Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing. We got that edge bander and it opened up. You got to put it to work. Yeah. I mean, it's got to pay for itself. You know, 1300, it's got to make 1300 bucks a month.
Outsourcing Production
01:21:18
Speaker
Wow.
01:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, it will you just got to get the jobs, right? Yeah, right and you can't get the jobs without the edge banner So yeah, it's we got a little moxie. Well, yeah that just you know, it applies it but it doesn't cut it and we use the festival Yeah Yeah, it's just such a time. I mean it comes out. All right, but it's just I
01:21:38
Speaker
We had the Moxiwa flex, CBC flex. It's like the small edge banner that, you know, it comes with like this little table that you sit it in, but we had, we had a lot of issues with it. Ours works well. Yeah. And we have our sliders Moxiwa networks. I mean, it's.
01:21:54
Speaker
You can't expect it to work like an Alton door for, you know, it's, it's $10,000 expectations or everything. It cuts within a 30 second, a square for a big sheet. You know, like, yeah, it works. You know, we worked in shops where no cabinet left the shop square, but you make it work on site, especially with overlay. It doesn't really. Yeah. Yeah. I hate overlay cabinets. You guys like them or, um, I've always had issues with those. They've grown on me. They're growing on me. I didn't go like a, you know,
01:22:24
Speaker
We just did a nice walnut vanity and it was all overlay and it looks maybe nicer than an inset one. It all depends on the design and you know, cause there's that way to do it where it's just covering up openings and there's a way to make it looks inset and it's easier to build an inset, but
01:22:46
Speaker
Just always with things not being square or, you know, the plywood, especially we got a deep overlay cabinet, you know, 24 inch rip. And then your plywood is how you fixing that. You know, it's just.
01:22:59
Speaker
I always liked, you know, we learned on face frames and I'm old school like that where I love the face frame, but. That's how I learned as well. It took me a while to wrap my head. I know it was funny because everybody said, yeah, it's so much easier. I was like trying to do this math in my head, especially uppers where there's no, you know, uppers where there's no
01:23:26
Speaker
What am I trying to say here? There's no underneath cabinet. So if you have like a kitchen upper, like the uppers, you kind of like split the atom to get like a decent transition on the bottom and add the piece. You got to make the bottom full. Yeah, exactly. Or edge band the bottoms and sides. Yep. How they're good. We always just put a, you know, let's just say we want a 32 inch door. We'll make the cabinet.
01:23:51
Speaker
31 and a hat or 31. Then we put a one inch just piece on the bottom. Like a light rail kind of light rail. Yeah. The door covers it. Okay. So the door will be, you know, 30 and three quarters for the gaps. And then underneath that we'll put a, a scab just to cover the joinery or whatever's under there. But still it's just then the end panel has to go down. It's just such a nightmare. I like trying to sell face frame. It's a little more work, but
01:24:21
Speaker
It's another situation for us where it's like, people just don't want to pay, you know? They want a look. They don't care if it's inset or if it's overlaid, but they want, they don't even know the difference. They want this look for this price. It's like, well, here's what you get. Here's what you can afford with that budget. The drawer box was our first big pill to swallow.
01:24:40
Speaker
Well, we were making them, yeah. Duct tailed. Yeah. Yeah. Three quarter inch hard maple through dovetail. Hand cut or are you using? No, using a router jig, you know, um, what? The color jig. Did it work well? Oh yeah. Made beautiful drawers and we were like not using glue ups, you know, using full clear sides. Oh man. People, they don't care if it's finger jointed birch.
01:25:08
Speaker
edge bend, the size, pocket screws. We were like, this is a drawer box. And you know, like the drawer box manufacturers would tell us, people don't care. And we were like, no, they do. They do. And then of course, come learn. How much are we spending each time on the drawer box? You know, I mean, had to charge the client, like, you know, upwards, like 500 bucks a drawer. Yeah. Holy moly. Yeah. I can do like 20 boxes in about a week.
01:25:34
Speaker
Yeah, I start to finish milling it, finished, you know, sanded, you know, that's a lot. You know, I remember I was doing some all hand cut not because I was like pure and cutting them by hand. I just didn't have the jig or anything.
01:25:54
Speaker
And each side takes like 30, 40, 50 minutes, you know, depending on, and these are small too. These are like five inch drawer boxes. Like this would take forever. Yeah, cut, the jig is fast. Cutting the dovetails was probably the fastest part of it. But then you have to assemble it, you have to cut the bottom, you have to, you know. And you got to set up for each side, you know. So if you have a four inch drawer, an eight inch drawer, a 12 inch drawer, you got every set up. Oh yeah.
01:26:22
Speaker
Where are you guys buying them now? Or are you still making them? No, you're not making them. Either from Hayfla or NJ drawers. We use NJ drawers. They're fast. You get that big, that giant dude comes in with it. Yeah, I love that guy. There's like 20 boxes on his shoulder. I actually went to their shop on Monday or Tuesday. It was a cool shop there. And it's just like they got, you know, those big racks and they're like,
01:26:49
Speaker
4-inch drawers, 4-inch, 5-inch, 6-inch, all the, you know, stocked ones. They're pretty good and they're, and they're fast. Yep. The Hayfla drawers are nice too though. Do they finish the, I know a lot of, I know some of that has a big problem with they don't finish the
01:27:07
Speaker
the joints, like the. Like they finish it before assembly. Yep. Yeah. You can, it's, have it finished. You can, it's the same with NJ George. You could pay extra to have it finished after. Yeah. Yeah. Which depending on the job is worth it. You know, like for the Hampton's job, that's what we did is we had, you know,
01:27:26
Speaker
But there's nothing like cutting dovetails. I love it. It's getting that, you know, nothing else. It's like carving, you know, nothing. You're just doing that. Nothing else matters. At first, using those drawer boxes, the bought ones made me feel a little. Yeah, you definitely. Yeah. We started buying our doors a year ago and that was a tough pill to swallow. But now it's like, oh boy, who do you use for doors? There's a local guy by me that has a CNC wood tech and
01:27:53
Speaker
He makes, you know, one piece. Plum Creek is you got to hit up our boys down at new doors. Yeah, they're good. They're cheap. This guy works out to be about $20 a square foot. We don't say cheap. We say inexpensive, inexpensive. Is he using the good wire house or double refined MDF? I don't know. He uses plum Creek, whatever that is. I don't know what that is. Yeah. You have to, you have to do anything to the edges before you finish them. Yeah. Oh,
01:28:20
Speaker
Uh, new doors. Like you have to like, well, we always, we always order them big. So we have to cut them, sand them. Yeah. Well, if you're getting them from him, you don't have to order them big because he's going to see, see to those exact. Yeah. But our fate, I can't trust our face rate, especially like you got to remember we're having other people. If I was making every, you know, if I was making every, not even me, you know, like,
01:28:47
Speaker
I can mess up too, but if it's like 30 seconds off or I screw it in, you know, then I'm now my openings. What, again, it's all in my head is a little bit bigger. Yeah. But now we always order them big and cut them. Oh man. That seems crazy. Yeah. I need, might as well just, I don't know. I don't know. It's still remarkably cheaper. Yeah. I don't know what his stores are pretty inexpensive. Yeah. Yeah. Inexpensive. Yeah. We've got a new door. Yeah. And check it out.
01:29:18
Speaker
Here's one down to your left too. Under the tape. By your left foot. Yeah.
01:29:36
Speaker
So that top one's painted, the bottom one's primed. Do they all come primed or can you get them raw? Not that it matters, but you could, but they have a, they have a flat line CNC spray system. So they just can't beat that. And you can see the odds on the back of that one. It's new and new. Yeah. So like they're like, you don't have to do anything to the edges or anything. You just prime them and they're all rounded and everything. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. They come just like that.
01:30:04
Speaker
can't beat that, no? No. Yeah. So that's $20 a square foot primed and they'll paint them for you if you want. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever custom color you want. Wow. I have to look into this. They're nice. I'm telling you. Yeah. Good guys. Yeah. What do you guys use on that? This is what is this a one eighth round over on the side? Um, I always use 16. I think it's, yeah, it's maybe like a three 32nd kind of somewhere in between. Yeah. They run them through like a brush sander to do that. Yeah.
01:30:33
Speaker
Yeah. Some of those shops are crazy. It just make one thing. It's cool to see the, uh, the niche machinery that they have just to do all that stuff. And that's why they're so much cheaper than you making them. You know, they just got to do everything. Yeah. And what do they say? Processes. Processes. Yeah. Systems. Yeah. Yeah. Systems. Yeah. No, but that's definitely some, I got to start ordering them the exact size because
01:31:00
Speaker
And they're like, you order them today, like you'll, you'll have them. Well, today's Thursday. They're like two days. Like where are they based out of? They're down in like a West Berlin, Voorhees kind of area. Okay. Um, and they just ship like FedEx. So just show and yeah, they just show up in two days. I'm going to open an account today then. They have the same system as NJ drawers. It's like all Moxie. So if you're used to like ordering through that, it's exactly the same. I do like NJ drawers ordering system to some of these other ones I use, like, uh,
01:31:30
Speaker
He was a couple like meridian meridian is brutal. It's like every time. I know. And you gotta like send a quote. Who's your salesman, Carl? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Does he bring you baked goods? He's never come to me. Oh wow. I think he was supposed to. I was supposed to set something up now that I'm leaving.
01:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He's a nice guy. And Katie, Katie was Katie. Yeah, but it's not Katie anymore. It's now somebody else. I did some with that paper. That must have been recent because I was calling her a few months ago. Yeah. Nicole is the new. Yeah. They're like doing some like read the shuffle on the deck. Yeah. Something like that. Their ordering system is so confusing. Like to get a shaker door, you got to
01:32:13
Speaker
Like I said, split the atom. Yeah. You've got to add a profile and subtract. MRP 10 with a 516 edge and I'm like, can we just get a shaker door, please? Yeah. I love the NJ drawers one. That's all moxie. Is that the program that they use? Yeah. It must be like the e-commerce like a host or whatever.
01:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, those are great. That would be great for new doors. Their site's good, too. Like, let's say you're doing an estimate. You can plug in all your stuff and it'll give you the price right up front. That's horrible. With Meridian, too. Yeah, it's like three days. Yeah. They're pretty expensive, too. We ordered some doors from them. They were really nice. The MDF doors.
01:32:54
Speaker
I even looked at them for ordering face frames. You guys ever order face frames? No. I looked into it, but that was just, I didn't find it worth it. You know, wasn't as cheap as I thought it was going to be. They go together so fast. Yeah. What takes the most time is milling up inch and a half by whatever material, you know? Yeah, of course. Yeah. But, uh,
01:33:14
Speaker
Yeah. I always try to look to see what I could sub out and some things make sense and some things don't. I had a guy that I was like, he was almost like a mentor. He ran like a hundred person shop in Manhattan. It was union and this dude's done like $10 million.
01:33:32
Speaker
whole Hilton's and everything. But that guy, like they did everything. So order face frames, order. And they, but like, it's just such a different scale, you know? Yeah. And they always use poplar, you know, like I hate poplar. Poplar paints so bad. And it's just, everything's wrong. Like it's never not, yeah, I guess you could find a nice piece, but
01:33:55
Speaker
It's expensive, too. Like Poplar is like the same price as Maple. Yeah. And I hate Maple, too. But you ever use Beach? No, but I want to impress her.
01:34:06
Speaker
Yeah. Beach is good. I know a couple of guys, we've never used it, but I know a couple of guys that use that for painting stuff. Really? Yeah. Comes in the same dimension. You can get rough beach. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering where. Um, yeah, I don't know where they're getting it. One guy is up in Massachusetts. The other guy is Justin De Palma down South Jersey, I think. Yeah, I think it follows Instagram. I don't know where he's getting his lumber from. Maybe like, um, um, Acclevane or something.
01:34:37
Speaker
Yeah, we did a mahogany door. I think they painted it. Mahogany is nice too. It's not that expensive either. What do you guys pay for mahogany? I think it's like... What was that African mahogany that you bought recently? That's a little more expensive, right? Or Sapele? Yeah, Sapele who paid like six.
01:34:54
Speaker
Yeah. I think I'm right around there. Yeah. CPO we've never used, but I think that's probably about the same. Yeah. I think the African was a little more cause that was just like a local place, like maybe eight times aboard foot or something. But it was, it was a quarter and it was at a local lumber yard. Yeah. I like using the hot or Sapele. It works. And it's like dead flat, dead straight. You get a 10 H Y board that's 16 feet long and it's one pass on the joiner and it's flat.
01:35:20
Speaker
but it will move. It's weird, it's flat, but then you face it and plane it and then you come back and it's like, what the hell? We had a piece that would just like, it just like kept moving and it contorted into some wild shape.
01:35:36
Speaker
Yeah. You ever just get a board that won't get straight? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So it's weird. Like why? No matter how many times you run it on a jointer. Yeah. It's just not. Yeah. They say like whatever shape the tree was in, like it just wants to go back to that. So if it was on like a hill or something, I mean, it's just like a bad piece of lumber that never should have been milled into. Yeah. But they don't, you know, they don't care. What other woods you guys like working with?
Material Preferences
01:36:01
Speaker
For me, cherry is top dog. That's the best. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, I'm not a finisher, but I always found it hard to get like, it always seems blotchy. Yeah. You got to just use the oil. Yeah. And a lot of times the blotches is like figure, you know? Yeah. Like it's some shitoyance that just looks, you know, just looks blotchy sometimes, but yeah. Cherry is your favorite. What about you? I would go there too. Yeah.
01:36:27
Speaker
I saw you guys did some cherry stuff that was really nice, right? Yeah, we've done a lot of cherry. We always push cherry. It's so cheap. It is, right? It's so cheap. How much is that a board foot? Oh God, three bucks less. Yeah. Yeah. One of my guys did a side project with cherry and it was really cheap. And it, you know, it looks so good. Yeah. I'll have to start using more cherry. Push it a little more. I like it.
01:36:55
Speaker
Yeah. I like how it works with other woods too. Like yeah, well it's like a nice maple and as accent woods. Yep. Yeah. We're mostly cherry walnut white oak. That's the top three. When I carve, I use a lot of basswood. Yeah. I wonder how that would be to paint. Yeah. I don't know. It's so soft. You look at it. It'll be dented. Yeah.
01:37:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's fun to carve with that stuff. It's so like, it's the queen of the carving. Oh yeah. Yeah. What? Tupelo is another big one, right? I think that is the same. It's like, it's, I think it might be from the same tree. I'm not sure. They call it something. They call it lime wood in England. Okay. I've heard that. I never knew that that's what I think they're from the same. I don't understand like the,
01:37:49
Speaker
the science behind which tree it is, but I think they're like the same tree. Yeah. Cause I watch a guy that makes like fishing lures. Oh yeah. And he uses a lot of times he's using fishing a lot. Uh, not as much as I used to, but
Fishing and Travel Stories
01:38:03
Speaker
yeah. Try to get out there. Yeah. I used to go a lot too. I love fishing. Well, when you own a business, it's time for anything. I got a plan. We're going in hopefully March, but uh,
01:38:16
Speaker
We got some big bluefin out here right now. Yeah. Yeah. I really want to go to the Azores. I'm trying to try to be down, but we're looking at flights and it's, it's like every layover is like 10 hours, you know, fly direct. Where do you fly Spain or? I think all them go to Portugal. Portugal. Yeah. Cause it's, it's a Portuguese island. Yeah. I'd love to do like a Patagonia or something like that. Man. I just went, I mean, I went to Brazil.
01:38:43
Speaker
last or in May. It's Chris. That's a wild place. It's a crit. It's so beautiful. Like just that earth is so red and I can't, I couldn't under explain it until you see it, but it's like, there's just something different about it. You know, it's, I never been anywhere remotely that far away. I didn't realize how far away it was. I looked at the plane and it was 10 hours. Like Jesus, it was five hours till we got to Brazil.
01:39:10
Speaker
Brazil's huge. Brazil is enormous. Yeah. We flew into Sao Paulo and drove like four hours into the country. It was windy roads and up and down, ears popping all over and like you see the ocean every once in a while on your right. It was beautiful. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. In Patagonia, they have these sea run brown trout that are like this big. I love to go there. I love to see Cape Horn. I've heard that it's
01:39:36
Speaker
you know, a wild place. And I love those old sailing stories. You know, that's how you get around the cake. That's like, uh, yeah, we're going to, we're hopefully we'll go catch, maybe we'll just go to Florida or something. But I used to do a lot more fishing. We caught a in Bermuda, 350 pound blue Marlin. I'll show you the picture of, yeah, that's big. Yeah. It's the biggest fish I ever caught by far. We were on our, it was, first of all, it was like nine years ago. The boat was,
01:40:06
Speaker
It was me, my mom, my dad, my brother, we were on a cruise. I went to Bermuda and stopped there for three days. So it was almost like a hotel in Bermuda. And the boat was $2,100. No food. They gave you some drinks.
01:40:22
Speaker
But, uh, we caught tons of fish and on the way in, you know, they're trolling. They got the things out and all of a sudden you just see this thing jump out of the water and the guys freak out because they're, they're more excited to catch us fish than we are because they said they can use it for bait for like six months and eat it. Yeah. You know, they said you can have it, but we were on a cruise. They were like, we can bring it to a local place to eat it. I don't think that many people eat blue Marlin anyway.
01:40:50
Speaker
We can have it stuff for you or like, no, you guys can, you know, we just want the experience. And we took turns reeling it in, me and my dad and my brother, and you can only do it for like a minute or two. We were sore for, I mean, it took us like 45 minutes to an hour, but we were sore for like, yeah, it's short. Sometimes you go hours and hours. If you were by yourself, yeah, I love that book. I'm a bit, I like Hemingway.
01:41:13
Speaker
Um, if you were by yourself, it would take, I mean, even just that fish, I think it would've take triple the time because anytime you got tired, you go, all right, you're up, you know? But if you were just doing it by yourself, you end up getting spooled. Yeah. You see it come in and this thing, this thing, it was, the body was like seven feet, but from like tip to tip was eight foot, 11 inches. It was a monster. Yeah.
01:41:37
Speaker
Once in a lifetime. Yeah. All those bill fish are crazy. Yeah. You guys ever catch anything bigger? Uh, biggest fish I ever caught was a striper that was probably like getting close to like the like 45 pound mark probably.
01:41:54
Speaker
But I caught a, I caught a 12 pound fluke, which is like, that's my lifetime. Yeah. That's my best. Yeah. Like literally 32, 32 inches. Yeah. Uh, like 32 inch fluke is freaking huge. That's my, um, so there's a Naval pier out here called Earl. It's a three mile pier that goes out into the Raritan Bay. Yeah. I think we talked about this.
01:42:19
Speaker
Yeah. So we were we were fishing right in front of the pier and it was actually a tournament day. We weren't in the tournament. We were talking about going into it. We caught an eight pounder that day first. My buddy's girlfriend caught an eight pounder and we go over. My, my other buddy was on his uncle's boat and he's like, Oh, he's like, we're over in front of Earl. He's like, people are catching fish over here. So we shot over there and we're on a drift. Navy boat comes out, gets on the thing. You know, they got 50 caliber machine guns on the deck and everything.
01:42:48
Speaker
We're like, everybody's got to move 200 yards towards New York, you know, cause people are getting too close to the pier. So we set up on a new drift and it's deep right there. It was probably, we were fishing probably like 60 feet, which is deep for, well, I mean, it depends on where you're fishing, but that's pretty deep because it's a big channel.
01:43:03
Speaker
Uh, and I have like a six ounce cannonball sinker with like one of those big gulp grubs. Like, I mean, the bait's like 12 inches long. And, you know, jigging as you're drifting. I'm like, Oh man, I got bottom. Yeah. Oh boy. And, you know, cause these big fish, they're like sucked to the bottom when you hook them.
01:43:23
Speaker
and pulled it up and was just like, my mind was blown. People are coming up to the boat. Cause this tournament was like, you know, the pot was like five grand or something. People like wanted to buy, they wanted to buy the fish. Yeah. Yeah. Those are, you know, those tournaments are serious, but I, some people hate fluking. I love it. You just put it in a labato, lift it up and down.
01:43:48
Speaker
That's fishing. I mean, just getting out there. Yeah. I never caught a fish. No, no, we got to get you out. I've been fishing. We go to Pulaski, New York on the salmon river. Yeah. So we went up the last two Aprils for steelhead. Um, that's a lot of fun. That's a cool place. What is that?
01:44:07
Speaker
So it's like an hour north of Syracuse. It's one of the Lake Ontario tributaries. What's Steelhead? Steelhead is like, they're originally from the west coast. They're like sea run rainbows. Okay. So these don't go into the ocean. They go into Lake Ontario, but you know, they get big like 20, 20 pounds. Wow. Yeah.
01:44:28
Speaker
Yeah. It's so much fun. Just, it's nice up there. That's the thing. I mean, I, I, I look at fish in the same way. I looked at golf, you know, you just, you're out in nature and, you know, if you, if I cat a fish, you know, that'd be a bonus. You guys golf at all? No, no, I mean, I've gone out with friends, you know, but you, you can't, you know, you're a drag if you don't know how to play. You're just holding people behind.
01:44:55
Speaker
So, so nobody wants to take you, but I used to just love going out the few times I did, you know, you're in the car, it's, you know, you're having a good day, it's warm, you drink a beer. But, and then they get mad if you get like a lucky shot.
01:45:12
Speaker
Yeah. I always said it's like, uh, going to the casino and playing blackjack. You know, it's like, if you don't know what you're doing, like people scream at you. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like dude, we're at the $5 table. If you're so serious, go over there. Like this is where I'm supposed to be playing because I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah. That's funny.
01:45:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just try and be unobtrusive, you know, like, like when I'm fishing, you know, I tried to, you know, not to like screw up any like fishermen. Yeah. Cross over somebody's line, you know, especially it's, you know, we're up there fly fishing, which is, Oh yeah. I never tried that. It's fun. Yeah. It's, uh, it's hard. Like people get hooked on it. Yeah. Like we don't care. We go up there. We don't catch any fish, but like, if I had spinning gear, I'd probably catch a fish. Yeah.
01:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I would like to try it. And you'll see people catch it like that one guy was he called like 10 fish. Yeah. And, you know, river fishing, like you got to know the river, you know, you got to read the river. We need a guide next time. Yeah, it's expensive. My old man goes up to like Saskatchewan. I take like puddle jumpers up to a place that's got no cell service. It's only open three months of the year. It's so expensive and you get
01:46:29
Speaker
like an indigenous person as your guide. And they know that they're catching like 40, 50 fish a day. Well, like pike, like, and maybe some wall. Yeah. They're huge. Like 50. He's got a couple of pictures, you know, and he says, just, you drop it in, you catch them all day long. All I are weird looking. Yeah. Like weird eyes. I think it's mainly pike. Yeah. But, uh, he loves it. He goes like, he tries to go every year. Yeah. Pike are crazy. Yeah. Freshwater barracuda. Yeah. Did Eric go to Patagonia?
01:47:00
Speaker
Who's Eric? You know, the mudroom, mudroom Eric. Oh, what was that? Just that one guy up in North Jersey where we did that basement. Yeah, he did. Eric went fly fishing somewhere else in the US, like Wyoming or something. Yeah, I remember he went somewhere.
Historical and Cultural Discussions
01:47:19
Speaker
Yeah, he and his wife went remote. Maybe Idaho, I forget. Yeah, actually, I'll take the video for you, but
01:47:30
Speaker
Because my foreman is the one, he married a Brazilian woman and they had a wedding here in and down in Brazil. And we went, but afterwards they went to, you know, somewhere like not in the Amazon jungle. Cause it's, we were like, Oh, how far is the Amazon jungle? It's like 15 hours away from where we were. But, uh, they went somewhere like in a jungle.
01:47:49
Speaker
And he found a guy that was a wood carver in the shop there. And they're like, these guys are working with like, they're making beautiful things with like nothing. These guys have like a few chisels. No shoes. Yeah. And then he's got like, he was carving the last supper and it was beautiful. He showed me the picture and they went to a town that literally looks like it's in Germany. Oh yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like German Belgium architecture. Yeah. I've seen that stuff on TV. Yeah. I couldn't believe when he sent that to us.
01:48:18
Speaker
Yeah, there was a big exodus in the 40s to South America. After the war, right? Even probably a lot of people before the war, during, before, after. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of Nazi stuff down there too. Yeah. Well, there was like a big, there was a push, the Nazis were pushing to have like an invasion of the US through South and Central America. Fourth Reich. Yeah. Was it Argentina? Was that the big? Argentina, I think it's a big one. Yeah.
01:48:45
Speaker
That's where a lot of people claim that Hitler escaped Argentina. They had the TV shows on it. Finding Hitler. Yeah. It's made for TV. It's like Oak Island. Next week we're going to find Hitler. Yeah. Next week we're going to find that treasure. That's another thing. After this commercial break. Oak Island. They're all going to find something this year. It's the same thing with wrestling.
01:49:06
Speaker
I had to stop watching. I watched a couple of seasons of Oak Island. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. This is a toxic relationship. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's cool to see like the process of how they look for treasure. Yeah. Because. But you could condense. Let's say there's 10 seasons. You could condense it all down to like three episodes. Yeah. It could be like a like a made for TV or like a miniseries, you know. Yeah. But no, they're just milking that. Yeah. So I tape it. Yeah. And I'll watch it like on Saturday or something. Fast forward through it.
01:49:36
Speaker
The thing that I constantly think of is this thing must be like a real cash cow because it must be the technology and stuff that they've brought in. Yeah, it's crazy. And and the machinery is it's massive like it's gotta be millions of dollars. Millions and just to pay all those people to be there. Yeah, they must be making millions and millions on that thing.
01:49:58
Speaker
Yeah. Like they could have found the treasure and it still wouldn't be as worth as much as the TV show. They probably just like put that treasure off to the side. They're like, it's here, but we're going to do over here. Now that's the smart thing to do. I like watching those ones in Florida. My parents used to have a house, like in one of the keys.
01:50:24
Speaker
And I don't know if you know anything about the keys, but there's like a famous treasure hunt over there that found part of the Atosha maybe. And, uh, my mom's got a coin from it and it was, one of her friends was like the photographer on one of the boat, you know, cause they knew people down there, but
01:50:41
Speaker
Apparently those Lagina guys like found a shipwreck in Florida recently and then like the Florida government like seized it from them. They're like, that's our treasure now. Yeah, that's a whole other can of worms. I know if you find it, it's like 10 years. If you can, you got a battle in court.
01:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, I always wondered like what happens when you like find it and then so you lay in a claim, but it's out in the middle of the ocean. How can you monitor who's going out there? And once the state government knows about it, they're probably watching you. Oh, yeah. They want that trip, you know. Yes.
01:51:17
Speaker
I mean, it's like if you find like a big envelope of money on the street, like they're not gonna let you keep that. If you tell the police that you found an envelope with $50,000 in it, they're gonna be like, yeah, we're gonna hold on to that for you. We'll try and find who's that is. Yeah. Oh, man.
01:51:34
Speaker
Yeah, that stuff's cool. One day when I retire, I love to... You ever see those videos of the guys with the metal detectors? Yeah, I get sucked into those. My wife showed me those and I'm just like, scroll, scroll, scroll. We're building some cabinets for the historical society in this town, Kingsbury. Oh yeah?
01:51:51
Speaker
And the president, Kevin, is a big metal detector guy. Really? And right out here, you know, he's found Spanish, what are they called? Galleons? No, Galleon is a ship. The Bloom? I was going to say the Bloom, but it's something else. There's a cool name for it. I don't know what it is. Piece of something or? What? Like a piece of a Spanish coin.
01:52:19
Speaker
That's what it was in Florida, right? Yeah. What are Spanish gold coins called? Um, maybe just the balloon. I don't know. I thought there was a name for it. It's good. Oh, is what this is. But he's found, you know, Spanish coins, uh, all kinds of stuff. I mean, Henry Hudson came, apparently he like landed here. Um,
01:52:48
Speaker
Cause, uh, what did they call this half moon Bay or something? No, no, that's half one. Yeah. Oh, half moon was the name of the ship. Henry Hudson ship, I think was half moon. But yeah, he landed here and then went up for them. These two display cabinets. So they're going to display glass, you know, like old kind of old-fashioned. The white Oak with like this like shellac kind of colored. Yeah. Yeah. Like a real RNG.
01:53:13
Speaker
I heard those jobs don't pay that well, is that true? Yeah, no, we're doing it for like a song. And then they were like, all right, so yeah, like when you're done, like you sign this thing, then the town will pay you. I'm like, that's not how this is going to work. It doesn't, not just building this on. Yeah. That's how they do it for everybody. I'm like, not us. Like you can find somebody else to build these. You know, we're, we're already doing you a favor. Yeah.
01:53:36
Speaker
Yeah, I took a carving class and the guy said like churches are the worst with you guys. Church has got money. Yeah. Depends on the church. Yeah. You guys did some work. Wow. That was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. We did like upwards of like a hundred thousand dollars in that one church. Wow. Yeah. My best, one of my best childhood friends, a priest, and he always says, Oh, once I get
01:53:57
Speaker
little higher in the church. We're going to, is it a Catholic church? Yeah. They got, they got dough. It's because it's the donors. Yeah. They can't get it from the diocese. Like the diocese has control of the purse brings it all amounts to the, to the local church and, and who attends. It's a very wealthy local church too. There you go. I mean, he's going to get moved, but eventually
01:54:20
Speaker
But yeah, it's like, oh, we need this alter rail. And then they've, you know, they're like, Hey, uh, you know, they brought whoever they're like, you know, we need like 25 grand for this. Yeah. Did you guys ever, uh, carve anything over there? Or was it, we had some stuff, CNC'd like these like medallions, the, uh, I've gotten some stuff CNC carved. It was okay.
01:54:42
Speaker
Yeah, this stuff was pretty good. I think we way overpaid for it in the end of the day, but we didn't really know anybody who could have done it. Yeah. We just had some guy in Washington state or something. Yeah, it's so much cheaper than I've tried to like calculate carving stuff. I don't know how people make it. I mean, you have to pay for it just because you want it hand carved. Yeah, because you got to be like from Eastern Europe. Yeah. Malaysia. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Those are like the more like hacky kind of guys. I feel like I was just watching a video on these guys from Bali.
01:55:11
Speaker
It's like a tradition over there to call the team stuff. Yeah, it's crazy
01:55:16
Speaker
Yeah, when I was a caterer in San Francisco, there was always a big group that would spend like January and February in Bali. Really? Yeah. Cause you know, we work like insane hours through the holidays and then they take off like for two months and go to Bali and live up, you know, like, you know, white man royalty over there. It's like, yeah, you go to like Thailand or something. It costs like nothing to like,
01:55:44
Speaker
I've never been over there. I've never been. I've never been to Europe. I've been. The one thing I remember is that you see stuff that's so old that we don't see here. It's like ordinary things like you walk into a pub from like 1500.
01:56:06
Speaker
and the ceiling, regular sized people like me have to duck. Yeah, I just want to see some of that stuff. Anything here like pre-1650 we destroyed and put a town on top of it.
01:56:23
Speaker
You know, because even stuff here that's like a hundred years old is kind of considerable. Where there you'll walk and it's just like regular stuff that's still in use. Yeah. You got to go to like New England and then like maybe like, uh, colonial limbs. Yeah. Anything that's in 1700s. It's like an attraction. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's just, we're there. It's just the thing. Yeah.
01:56:48
Speaker
Yeah. I'd love to see that one day. One day I'll get a Europe trip out just to check out the architecture. I love seeing how other people build stuff, especially like Japan or where they don't have, they just have different skills and everything. Yeah. Yeah. I saw this thing on the thatch roofs that they do over there. You know, it's like this, just this dwindling amount of people who can repair them. Yeah. Yeah. The roofs are a big thing.
01:57:16
Speaker
I play this game, Geoguesser, you ever play it? No, but I've seen some videos. Oh, it's riveting. It's crazy, some of these people. Well, yeah, you learn like what they call the meta. So, you know, like, oh, this car's only used in like Honduras, you know, but it's, it's.
01:57:33
Speaker
as a carpenter or woodworker. You know what this is? No. You get like a picture, like a random, you know, you like, I guess you kind of like hit a button and like a random picture will come up and you got to figure out where it is. Oh, like you just drop a pin on a map. Yeah. That's cool. And I always play against someone. So you're reversing like whoever, if you're a hundred miles off and here are 200 miles off, you get a certain score based on time. Is time a factor too or no? So you can go, the way I play is,
01:58:03
Speaker
once the other person guesses, you have 15 seconds. So, you know, technically, I guess it could go on for as long as you keep your phone open, but most of the time, you put it in within a minute or two, sometimes even faster. But as in like a design and carpenter, it's so, there's no like slate, there's no shingle roofs outside of the United States, basically. Like everything is, I don't even, like they don't put shingles on.
01:58:31
Speaker
Yeah. They're metal or metal. Yeah. Stone slate. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you mean like asphalt shingles? Yeah. Asphalt. I should say, yeah. Just regular asphalt shingles. I hate those. They just think they're so ugly. Yeah. But they're just, it's like vinyl sliding. It has its purpose, you know? It's cheap and it lasts pretty long. We did a couple
01:58:57
Speaker
I've done some cedar roofs. Those are fun as like a, you get to use your hand plane, which is rare. Like the world's easiest wood to play. Yeah. Even like the dullest of hand planes will just like kind of like, I can only imagine what my hand plane looked like then. Cause I didn't know anything about sharpening. Not that I know much now, but at least a little more than then, but it would just slice through that. Oh yeah. Like a little buck bros, like the buck bros. Yeah. Yeah.
01:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean like a full house you put cedar shingles on. One of the first things I did for my parents, they own a garden center. I made them like a little potting shed where they make stuff. So it was like a 10 by 12. Okay. The roof. That's a good place to start. Over-engineered the crap out of it. Put sleepers on it, you know, playing the ridge so each one's interlocking.
01:59:50
Speaker
There's no, you know, but it was just fun to do. When I worked with the, uh, I worked with a remodeler builder for four years. And over the time we did some of that, uh, a plastic slate people are using now. It looks like slate, but it's plastic. That thing can be a real pain in the neck to do.
02:00:11
Speaker
Yeah, slate roofs are expensive. The house I grew up in had a slate roof. And back in like 1993, like had like a freak tornado come by and actually knocked this big tree into the house and damaged part of the roof. And rather than like repairing that in slate, the insurance company just paid to put a
02:00:30
Speaker
asphalt roof on the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, if you want a slate roof, like you're talking like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah. Yeah. This is from the 1800s, like original. Yeah. Yeah. And it's easy. I fell off a slate roof once and thank God it was only like we were working on it, replacing like a fascia. And I could walk on it and it just started like it looked like it was going to rain and this thing got it was a slip inside. I walked one step right down.
02:00:59
Speaker
Just thank God. It was only like a five foot drop. Nothing bad. Nothing bad happened at all. But you fell on from one roof system on to like another. It was. It was it was on a hill. It's like guest house. Yeah. So like at one point it was really high. But if you went down, it was just like the next grade. It was a retaining wall. The next grade.
02:01:23
Speaker
But yeah, that thing is easy to fall off of. Yeah. Father Mike, the guy who used to run the church, St. Mary's, they reassigned him out in Pennington and his place had all this slate roofing. Yeah. And it's beautiful. Yeah. He was telling me about how
02:01:41
Speaker
you know, this piece needs a newer thing there. So they're like, you know, it's like a phone thing. Like we're talking about. I don't think it's easy to just replace like one piece. No, there's so we, we took one time we, you know, our, I worked with the builder, they wanted to save the slate, which was, they ended up throwing up always. These people want to save stuff. 99% of the time they throw them out. But we were like meticulously trying to take these,
02:02:09
Speaker
these slights off and they're so like brittle. You just try and lift it up. It cracks. Is there like one nail holding it in? Is that? They pre-drill two little holes and you're supposed to use copper nails. That's what allegedly, I'm sure I'm going to get feedback that no, you can use this kind of nail, but I always told you use copper nails.
02:02:32
Speaker
And we would even save the copper nails and we would keep them all in this, you know, coffee cans. Yes. No, we would sell them. You could sell the copper. Um, that's a good way to kill a tree. Apparently you put a couple of copper nails into it. Really? Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah. Like a shitty neighbor. Yeah. It's like hammer a couple of copper nails into the tree. Yeah. But yeah. And the slate just cracked so brittle and you know, just, but it's beautiful when you I've seen the guys like what they have like this kind of like,
02:03:08
Speaker
Ryan Edgar roofing or something. And it's like all slayers. It's insane how cool it is. Yeah. I love watching that stuff. Specialized skills like you were talking about earlier, even just to the little things where you see people that hang drywall all day. There's little guy carrying like a five by 10 sheet hanging in himself and screwing it in. It is. It's amazing. I mean, yeah, that's the one cool thing about the internet. Yeah. That's like,
02:03:22
Speaker
thing that they put on the roof and then they have like the hatchet kind of thing and they like score it.
02:03:34
Speaker
I can get lost on there. Yeah, it opens up the world of all this this excellence you know like that you can see now bad about myself. Yeah, I'm trying not to do that right now it's like but just these this.
02:03:52
Speaker
I like to revel in more of like the ordinary stuff, like the sheetrocker, you know, like the guy who's taping. And we're like an electrician, like put in an outlet and they have like like a like a Indy car, like pit crew, how they just have all these emotions down. Like, yeah, it's it's cool every day for years, you know, and just people, you know, who've perfected their craft. Yeah, I love watching that. There's someone that's a true master at something.
02:04:22
Speaker
Yeah. And there's nothing like repetition to the best teacher. It's like they did away with it, you know, sort of in school, like, you know, the road learning, but that's, that's kind of, I think how we're, we're wired. Yeah, I think so. I've never gotten someone that came from, you ever have meet someone that like went to carpentry school or anything?
02:04:47
Speaker
I think Corey, I had this thing. I had a PM that had a construction management or whatever degree. Yeah. I was talking more like you ever hear like, there's a school in Boston that's really. Yeah. Like I wonder how those guys come out, you know.
02:05:05
Speaker
I've heard that they come out with a chip on their shoulder. Yeah. Like specifically the North Bennett guys. Yeah. Because they're like, Oh, this is not how we do it. You know, they're like, you know, they're, they think that they're here. That's what I would imagine. Get into a real shop. You know, when I was a chef and a caterer. Yeah.
02:05:26
Speaker
I had a lot of people working for me, sort of underneath me that were CIA grads and Johnson and Wales grads. And I'm just starting as a dishwasher when I'm 12. I imagine it's very similar, right? But it's the same exact thing. It's like, look man, you don't stand over one saucepan and wait till that's
02:05:53
Speaker
going on. And somebody's screaming at you and you're in a tent and you're trying to cook with a sterno. We're not at per se, you don't have two dishes that you're responsible for. You've got to cook the whole menu. So it's the same as we were talking about. It's the parallels of the industries. It's the same thing. You're talking about that restaurant per se.
02:06:16
Speaker
You've been there. I heard it's delicious. I know it's really expensive. Yeah. That's uh, that was that guy's name. I forget the chef over there.
02:06:27
Speaker
He was a good buddies with Anthony Bourdain. I love that guy. He used to watch a lot of the shows. Yeah. Yeah. He was good. I think he was like a, I don't want to call him a hack chef, but he like next to like real chefs, like he wasn't really like a great chef, but like, you know, the personality and the show. And like, I think all the intention behind the show was really good. Yeah. We wasn't a chef for that long. Like, I feel like he,
02:06:55
Speaker
God, I think I listened to something where he just was like, I wrote a book, I sent it in and two months later and like never cooked again, basically. It came up on, is it good? It came up on my Spotify. I pay for the premium, but. Oh, they have audio books on it. They got audio books. Not a lot of them, but a lot of them are.
02:07:13
Speaker
But one of them, and they suggest new ones for me, and one of them was kitchen confidential. I'm gonna toss that on. Yeah, it was good. Yeah. I've read that years ago. What does he talk about working in the kitchens? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a world unto itself. Yeah. You never read that? No. Yeah, you should read that. It's good. Especially I think before TV made it sort of a thing, like popularized it, like working in kitchens was,
02:07:42
Speaker
Yeah. It was, you know, there's a thing, you know. Yeah. It was like, yeah. Like being a tattoo artist back in the day. Right. Right. Like almost an outlaw. Right. Like I was a bike messenger in San Francisco and it was, it's like this deep subculture. Um, and it's, it's hard to explain, like, you know, cause you're talking about like when
02:08:05
Speaker
Things had to be like i had this piece of paper had to get it to another office eleven a.m like me i put in
Client Expectations and Internet Influence
02:08:13
Speaker
my bag and ride my bicycle over there through the city so i guess the fax machine kind of yeah the fax machine did do some dance but a lot of it was a
02:08:27
Speaker
You know, it was a, it was a culture of, uh, like in the office too, you know, the way people wanted it and to like a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean, some things had to be hand stamped. It has to be the same document signed, you know, so we worked for a lot of graphics companies in San Francisco, a lot of like Pacific bell stuff, inter office. Yeah. Getting stuff, uh, approved, you know, physical copies approved. Yeah. And then brought back it, but, um, yeah, this, this.
02:08:57
Speaker
We talk about this all the time. There's good and bad and popularization and media and everything. But I think it was cooler before everybody knew about every little thing too. How do you think the internet's affecting our business? That's a great question. Well, it's made marketing exponentially easier, I'd say. But it also, I think it has
02:09:29
Speaker
the, it's like the, like I was talking about with the paints, like the clients know too much now, but they don't know anything. Yeah. You know, like they think that they know it's like the Dunning crew thing. Like they think that they know something, but they really don't know shit. And that's the worst. Yeah. They're like, well, I saw on Pinterest or I saw on Instagram, you know, that's like, we have this guy who keeps sending us, he wants like a, first he wants this like 70 inch wide bookcase that's on like a track.
02:09:56
Speaker
Oh boy. That's like covering like a doorway. I'm like, okay, it's going to be like this much. And he's like, well, that's, you know, I was like, or if we use prefinished material, like 25% less, he's like, well, even at 25% less, that's still way over our budget. What if we do it so it swings like a door? I'm like,
02:10:13
Speaker
Same thing, probably hard. I was going to say that sounds hard. But he's sending like these YouTube videos. He's like, well, I saw this on YouTube. And that one video, like it's it's like this pine, like nailed together from the outside. He's got like a big piano hinge. I've definitely dealt with that.
02:10:33
Speaker
Like, yeah, you're talking to the wrong guys. Like, I'm sure you could find someone to do that for you and you're not going to be happy in the end. But I don't want to get onto this. So I told Julia or admin, I was like, just email this guy and just let him down easy. And what do you think about the TV shows and stuff like that?
02:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think they I feel like if I was if we were builders, it would be more of the TV shows because they make it seem like you get these projects finished so fast. Oh, you know, we could do this in 100 day makeover, you know, like can't do anything. There's no close up photography on those. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
02:11:11
Speaker
It's all looking good from, from, you know, 15 feet out. You know, I'll watch him with my wife just to mindlessly zone out. But the only one that's I like this old house. That's the only one that I really like. You see Zach Detmore is doing a, yeah, I'm excited to watch. I told him that we had, we'd like to have him on the podcast and he said, yeah, yeah, I'm just going to figure out a time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to watch that season. They did one in New Jersey after the hurricane that I watched.
02:11:39
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I think it was like three different houses. One was built in somewhere, maybe in Pennsylvania. One was just a true Renault and I forget what the other one was. I remember the one down by the beach. Yeah. I worked in a couple of the houses. I worked a lot in the, even when I first started in 2014, they were still fixing up a ton of them over here. It was wild to see what the, you cut your teeth on that stuff. Yeah. That's how it started. Yeah. It was like,
02:12:10
Speaker
cutting out drywall at two feet, putting it back in. The amount of signs for builders that just became anyone was a builder at that point. People were stealing HIC numbers off of other people's trucks. That's terrible. I think a lot of empires were made
02:12:30
Speaker
on the backs of, you know, Sandy. For sure. Yeah. I know, especially like, you know, Point Pleasant or that, you know, that block Island and LBI just crazy. The amount of guys that came about, but the internet, yeah. And what like, I always hear about these people like, Oh, getting to the trades, getting to the trades, getting the trades. I don't always know if that's the best idea as someone that's in it. You know,
Barter Agreement Issues
02:12:55
Speaker
I mean, I love what I do, but like,
02:12:57
Speaker
We're in the worst sector of the trades. I think, you know, this is like the, you're going to work the hardest and make the least as a, as a carpenter or cabinet maker slash furniture maker. Yeah. It's not like being a plumber. Yeah. Like those guys got it so easy. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC guys. Do that. Have such a cushy. If you're listening, I'm sorry.
02:13:19
Speaker
It's true. It is. It's so true. And, and they can price like for the job and they think it's like, yeah. Yeah. Like our electrician who did the, he's not our electrician, the electrician who did the work here. So we did a barter with the, we might've told you a little bit about this. Yeah. That like went south and like his wife got him. She's like, he took on this job, this dangerous job. I'm like,
02:13:46
Speaker
What the fuck are you talking about? Dangerous. Turn the panel off. Yeah. Like we had to like cut the pieces for like we got like thousands of cuts into your thing. One of those cuts is cumulatively more dangerous than this entire electric chair. What was dangerous about doing the electric here? I didn't know when south.
02:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think we've, this mic sounds weird. I was facing the wrong way. I think we touched on it briefly in the past, but basically, we thought we had an understanding that we were bartering labor. So it was like, we bought all the electrical material.
02:14:27
Speaker
about $13,000 worth of electro material in this job. And we paid his helper. So we thought that, you know, he was covering his time on that, and that we would do the closet for him, he would pay for the material, and then we would do the labor. And that was two guys versus one guy. So he had probably about
02:14:52
Speaker
50 to 60 hours into this job. And that's being generous. I think it was closer to the 50.
02:15:01
Speaker
Um, we have in his job, we now, so you call it a closet. Yeah. Yeah. I fast forward it a little bit. So he finished essentially the whole job and then we're like, all right, yeah, come on, come in with your wife and we'll, you know, we'll look at the drawings that I made. And cause I had made drawings and before, you know, before the, all the electric work was done.
02:15:24
Speaker
And we're like talking and they're like, so like, what kind of material would you use? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, we could use this and it would probably be like about this much. And we could use that and it'd probably be like about that much. And he's like, well, like, what do you mean? Like we're good, right? Like you got this. Like, you know, I did the electric now you're going to do the closet. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know, you pay for the material. We're going to, he's like,
02:15:45
Speaker
That's not what we talked about. And he tried to get like all tough. And, you know, meanwhile, it's like could have fucking buried you in the back and nobody would ever know. That sounds like that doesn't sound like a comfortable situation. Yeah. It was really, it was pretty tense. He's like, oh, you know, it was like go wait in the car. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, I've been fake tough guy. Yeah.
02:16:09
Speaker
So, you know, being the bigger man, we're like, you know, we're just we're going to we're going to use import birch plywood. We're going to shoot it with white paint, you know, you know, whatever. We'll just get it done and just move on with our lives. We have probably.
02:16:25
Speaker
300 hours. That was going to be my guess. What kind of clock? It must be some hell of a clock. It's 30th floor. So everything got to be built in small pieces. It's his attic. It's so it's, and it's a hip. We finished his attic. Yeah. Whatever you call that. Yeah. So it's like a room. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, there was so much scope creep because it was like, they'd be like, Oh, well that
02:16:48
Speaker
What about this? And it's like, that's not, it's not on the drawing. Like we never talked about it. There's like, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. I mean, it conned us. Like he said, all right, we're going to, let's, instead of this, let's just put these benches in and we'll forget about this. So we go, all right, that's cool. So we put, built the benches, but then we had to do everything else. And then we built the railing, you know, these like railing things. You finally out of that though.
02:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, it took us until it was a couple months. Yeah. And then she's like, all right. Yeah. So now you just got like the paneling going up the stairs. I'm like, no, I'm like, we never even talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, I don't understand why you're getting so angry.
02:17:33
Speaker
You have no fucking idea. Like this is like a hundred thousand dollar closet. Yeah. Like your husband was here for like 50 hours and he was, he was out because he had some thing going on and, uh, yeah, he wasn't working anyway. So it was like, yeah, that's brutal. Yeah. It's hard to barter. That's why.
02:17:54
Speaker
But we learned a big, big lesson, not just about bartering, but, you know, if we would have written it up the way we write up a job, but we had our backs to the wall in a way. That's when you make bad decisions. We signed the lease, we had to get the electric done.
02:18:14
Speaker
I know when we moved into our shop, it was just whatever it takes. I'll pay you. You know, the first one we got was for 50 grand. It's like, we ain't got 50 grand. We didn't have that 50 grand. We just paid them for the materials and he was terrible at ordering. Like we have, we still have stuff short on all this other stuff and then extra on all this other stuff. Yeah.
02:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. He was, he was the worst. He was the worst. A lot of sketchy people you can get involved with. Oh
Wrap-up and Farewell
02:18:50
Speaker
man. It's one experience. Yeah. I'm glad you guys are out of it. I'm sure the closet looks nice. Yeah. I hope it falls apart.
02:19:00
Speaker
That imported bird stuff is so cheap. I love that. Or like a cheap job. Like $38. Yeah. They're just giving it away. They'll pay you to come pick it up. There's like plastic inside of it. Yeah. We screw hole. You could screw like, well, some, one of the times we were doing it and we had a, we drilled all our hinge holes. Like 90% of them that.
02:19:23
Speaker
had to put dabbles in all the spots. Yeah. Yeah. 38 bucks. It's almost worth it, you know? Yeah. Like, you know that, like, white twine they have at Home Depot that's made out of, like, plastic? It's like, that's inside of the plywood. Like, I don't know if there's just, like, bundles of wood and they're just, like, throwing shit into some kind of machine. Even my maple has some of that white twine in it. Really? I don't know what it is. It's royal, so it's not
02:19:47
Speaker
the worst quality, you know, it's a hundred bucks a sheet. Yeah. Yeah. It might be like what you're talking about. Stuff's bundled together. Yeah. I think it might help bond something. That's mine. Yeah. That's kind of what I was thinking. Strands. Yeah. Like a mesh. Yeah. It's like string almost. Yeah. Yeah. Because like I've had it like, uh, sticking out and like, try to like break it off or something like it won't break. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy.
02:20:15
Speaker
Well, we're getting pretty deep into time here. How do you want to wrap this thing up? Well, we do have one more. Oh, yeah. We have one more spot. Good catch. I've got to thank our sponsor Unida and Exand. So we've been, as you know, we've been using that three by four and we got to actually the stuff here to set the other one up because we have one that's a non vacuum, which we're going to convert to a vacuum. But
02:20:41
Speaker
I've been using that a bunch. We did some more painted stuff last week. So I've been breaking that in and we got some of the film tech, the 320 grit film tech sandpaper from UNITA. And it's nice. I'm pretty sure it's silicon carbide. And I sanded a lot of stuff and I went through like, I think three, two or three, you know, I'm on my third sheet of 320.
02:21:04
Speaker
And it lasts a long time. It cleans up nice because, you know, even when you're you're sanding primer, like you do get nibs of paint on the thing. It cleans off really well. And I've been real happy with it. So that's cool. Yeah, that's a good plug. You know, Corey just picked one up to give it a shot.
02:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sanding doors, the 3x4 sander is like the greatest thing ever. Yeah. I can't believe I never had one. Even just like flat stuff, just sanding anything that's like primed or painted because you can like sand it but not burn through it. It's nice. What grit you use? 320. 320. Yeah.
02:21:44
Speaker
Yeah. I'll give it a shot. New doors. New doors. Yeah. You need it. Yeah. The blades. Yeah. Ridge carbide. Yeah. I got a lot of research to do. Thanks for having me on guys. Yeah. You got to tell everybody where they can find you on social media and everything.
02:22:02
Speaker
Uh, it's Dorsey trim millwork on Instagram. That's pretty much it. How do you spell that? D O R S E Y trim and millwork. Thanks guys. Thanks for listening. Everybody take care out there. We'll see you next week with, uh, I think we have anybody lined up. No, maybe we'll find somebody. Yeah. Maybe, uh, Brian from RT. Yeah. He's supposed to be in the neighborhood. All right. Talk to you guys next week.
02:22:31
Speaker
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02:23:09
Speaker
you