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Understanding Solution-Focused Therapy - a conversation with clinical hypnotherapist Keira Smith image

Understanding Solution-Focused Therapy - a conversation with clinical hypnotherapist Keira Smith

Fit For My Age
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9 Plays16 days ago

Keira Smith is a clinical Hypnotherapist and founder of Positive Change Hypnotherapy

In this episode of the Abeceder podcast Fit For My Age Keira explains to host Michael Millward what solution-focused therapy is, and how the process works.

In a wide-ranging discussion Keira describes what we know about how the brain works and how different situations and triggers prompt different responses, and different behaviours.

One element of these responses is how they create the behaviours for how we manage our past. There shouldn’t necessarily be a problem, unless our way of managing our memories has a negative impact on how we deal with the present and our future.

The process of solution-focused therapy helps to retrain the brain so that people can create a new way of thing that helps them to build their own solution for their future and to adapt that solution as times change.

Ultimately, says Keira, solution-focused therapy is about rebuilding the confidence in individuals so that they can become advocates for themselves.

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Fit For My Age is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform, that really does make creating content so easy.

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Find out more about both Michael Millward and Keira Smith at Abeceder.co.uk.

Matchmaker.fm If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests or if like Laurence, you have something interesting to say Matchmaker.fm is where great hosts and great guests are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

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Transcript

Introduction to 'Fit For My Age' Podcast

00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to Fit for My Age, the health and well-being podcast from Abysida. I'm your host, Michael Millward.

What is Solution-Focused Therapy?

00:00:17
Speaker
Today, I'm going to be finding out about solution-focused therapy from Kira Smith. As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, fit for my age is made on Zencastr.
00:00:31
Speaker
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms. Zencastr really does make making podcasts so easy.
00:00:45
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using zencastr visit Zencaster, visit zencaster.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida. All the details are in the description.
00:00:58
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:10
Speaker
Very importantly on Fit For My Age, we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.

Meet Kira Smith, Solution-Focused Therapist

00:01:18
Speaker
Today, my guest, who I met on Matchmaker.fm, is Kira Smith.
00:01:25
Speaker
Kira is a solution-focused therapist who is based in Birmingham. Birmingham is a great place. I'm a regular guest lecturer at Birmingham University.
00:01:36
Speaker
When I visit Birmingham, I always make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels and holidays.
00:01:47
Speaker
You'll find a link in the description. Now that I've paid the rent, it is time to make this episode of Fit for My Age. Hello, Ciara. Hi, Michael. Thanks ever so much for having me on as a guest.
00:01:59
Speaker
Well, I'm looking forward to finding out about this ah solution focused therapy. How did you become a solution focused therapy?

Kira's Journey to Solution-Focused Therapy

00:02:08
Speaker
I've been through several different roles as different types of therapists. So I was initially a massage therapist.
00:02:16
Speaker
Then I became a personal trainer and a yoga teacher. And then after a decade of doing that, I decided I wanted to change. And that's when solution focused therapy, solution focused hypnotherapy fell into my lap kind of through various different channels.
00:02:34
Speaker
And it was the perfect thing that I was looking for at the time because It gave me a way to continue to care for people, but in a more productive, action-driven way than I had done before. Well, you are the first solution-focused therapist that I have met.
00:02:50
Speaker
I'd never heard of it before I started to do it. So that there we go. there are There's a big network of us, but it's not something that gets talked about. I'm interested or I'm intrigued by the solution focus part because I suspect that if I talk to any therapist, they're all going to say, oh, we're we're interested in there is a solution.
00:03:11
Speaker
What makes it solution focus so specifically?

The Approach of Solution-Focused Therapy

00:03:16
Speaker
Specifically, we don't talk about the problem and we don't talk about the past. And that is in a nutshell, what makes it different.
00:03:24
Speaker
I get several clients that come to me because they are sick of talking about the problem and they want to move on. And when I tell them we don't have to do that, they cry with joy that I'm going to have to sit and talk about an unpleasant experience or issues that they may have gone over and over and over in their heads or with somebody else before.
00:03:46
Speaker
So we use tools which are solution-focused, which are all about getting the brain into the best place possible, to make the best decisions going forward. You don't talk about the problem that people have.
00:04:01
Speaker
No. And that sort of fits in with the idea that the past is somewhere, that we went on holiday there once and we don't have to go back because there are so so many other better places that we could actually go and visit.
00:04:12
Speaker
Absolutely. There really are. a lot of people will say to me, Well, how do you solve a problem without talking about it? And the thing is, because we're a blend of talking therapy and deep relaxation or hypnotherapy, whatever you prefer to call it, we educate the client that trauma and whatever else it is that's causing the problem, that can all be processed during your sleep.
00:04:36
Speaker
We don't need to talk about it to get rid of it. Your brain can process all of that without us going back and revisiting it and reigniting it, basically. With people that I've known who've gone through therapy, they have told me that they spend an hour talking about the past and as if it's coming to terms with the past, this happened. And other people who've actually talking about the past has made it worse for them.
00:05:03
Speaker
Absolutely. Because it's bringing it all back up again. For a lot of people, it can be a two-part process. They might need to go back and talk about it for a period of time to, like you say, come to terms with it, understand it.
00:05:15
Speaker
But then, as I say, a lot of my clients have i've kind of gone through that phase and they want to move away from it. They don't want it to continue

Personal Impact of Solution-Focused Therapy on Kira

00:05:23
Speaker
to define them. So for me, the big reason why this has changed my life, um doing this job and having this therapy myself,
00:05:30
Speaker
is because I'd reached a point where I didn't know what to do. my As we term it, my stress bucket was so full that it was dominating my life. And I literally didn't know what to do. And at that point, a lot of my clients say, i feel like um I need to make this huge decision to get out of this huge rut that I'm in.
00:05:51
Speaker
And actually what we do is go let's just back up from there. Actually, let's start by making some really small choices. gaining control of the small things, and then we move on from there so you you don't have that huge pressure on you.
00:06:06
Speaker
It's very interesting because haven't been through this sort of therapy or anything, but one of things that just sort of clicked into my mind was that if you've been through a conventional, let's talk about the past type of therapy, yeah what you really need to do is is to learn how to create the new you.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. What is the future going to be like? Who am I going to be in the future? Yes. What person am i Yeah. Because if your today is where you feel defined by negative experiences of the past, yes it feels as if it is more difficult to define who you are going to be in the future when you've lived potentially for decades defining yourself by negative experiences. Absolutely. And your brain is kind of comfortable there because it knows where it is.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yes. So changing can be quite difficult because the brain goes, it might be awful, but we know the landscape here. And that's very much your primitive brain. The flight or flight one. That's it. The big basis of solution-focused hypnotherapy is education, is the client learning about how their brain works,
00:07:20
Speaker
so that they understand what's happening at times when their anxiety rises, they will go into the primitive brain.

Understanding Anxiety and Brain Responses

00:07:28
Speaker
The primitive brain goes back to old patterns of behavior.
00:07:32
Speaker
It goes for quick fixes, for instance, alcohol, drugs. gambling, junk food. Chocolate bars. Absolutely. And that can be stress from any area of life, ah Michael. It's so different for all of us, you know, what stresses us.
00:07:48
Speaker
But as soon as we start to become more anxious, we go into that primitive brain. That primitive brain is where it's like, we don't want you to go out the house. We don't want you to do anything out of the ordinary because it might kill you.
00:08:00
Speaker
And that's where stress becomes The absolute killer of any progress. That's when safety behaviors start to appear. And when I say safety behaviors, I mean things like migraines, IBS.
00:08:13
Speaker
IBS is irritable bowel syndrome. So what you're saying is that our mind or brain is conditioned to responding to the past. Yeah. That danger may no longer exist, but it can take a long time for our brain to become convinced that it's safe. Absolutely. When you start thinking, well, I will do this type of activity or that type of activity, you can come up with excuses to justify, well, I want to do it, but of course I can't. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:08:41
Speaker
there won't be a car park space for me or the bus timetable doesn't fit. yeah Or yeah when you run out of those types of excuses, or maybe alongside those types of excuses, I've got a cold or I've got a migraine or I've got whatever. You're making me think about someone who has a bit of a reputation within our friendship type group of having migraines. When there is something on, when we've all organized something, it's like, oh, I can't go.
00:09:06
Speaker
I've got a migraine. And you go like, again? What happens is their anxiety will start to rise. And what the body will do in response to that anxiety rising is going, I'm going to give you something so bad that you can't leave the house so that you're safe.
00:09:21
Speaker
It's the body's way of keeping you safe, basically. So when we're in that primitive brain, the only three emotions that we experience are anger that makes us big and strong to fight off other the people.
00:09:33
Speaker
ah anxiety, it pumps all the blood to our limbs and gets us ready to run away. And depression, it shuts us down and makes us kind of wait until everything's safe and gone away.

Therapy Structure: 12 Sessions to Resolution

00:09:45
Speaker
Within that, that's when those migraines, IBS, all of those things start to appear.
00:09:52
Speaker
The range of issues and problems gets bigger with every sentence that we have. When I look at your website, the whole premise ah of this solution focused therapy is that it doesn't go on forever.
00:10:04
Speaker
We're here to find a solution and you'll find the solution within 12 weeks of therapy. So that essentially 12 sessions. Absolutely. It's about people learning. about themselves really, Michael, is how I can best describe it. So we use several different tools with them.
00:10:21
Speaker
As I say, we don't give advice. We use tools to help them understand themselves. So the more they get into that intellectual brain, the more they continue to do the exercises that we give them. We ask them for 30 minutes of their time a day. 23 minutes of that is lying down, listening to a relaxation.
00:10:40
Speaker
Why is it exercise? It's an exercise, not exercise, an exercise. Oh, right. But it's the two the two things that we ask them to do every day. One of them is that.
00:10:51
Speaker
That is to allow their brain to relax, to start to feel safe, to start to rest, and the brainwaves to start to slow down. And the other one is to write down what's been good.
00:11:03
Speaker
Not a gratitude journal, not what you think you should be grateful for, or what's been different, or what's been better, or what's actually good for you.
00:11:14
Speaker
They are both designed to get your brain working better, so that people can start to make the decision about what they actually want in their life.
00:11:25
Speaker
They start to notice what's getting in their way. That's why it's a shorter term therapy, because People are learning their own tools, how to manage their own stress, their own life.
00:11:37
Speaker
So that after six sessions or 12 sessions, when they go away, that learning can continue and they can continue to manage their own stress, happiness, life.
00:11:50
Speaker
And they've learned those skills for themselves. It sounds like a large part of what you do through this solution-focused therapy is to get the brain to slow down. Absolutely, Michael. You've hit the nail on the head because a ah relaxed brain that's going at a slower pace works so much better than a stressed brain. it It can make the best possible decisions for you, which then lead to less stress, which then leads again to more good decisions.
00:12:22
Speaker
We do get to the point where the pace of life is always being switched on. Absolutely. The impression I'm getting is that it's like that inside your brain yeah is getting your brain to realize, I don't need to deal with this. I don't need to deal with that.
00:12:36
Speaker
That is insignificant. but These are the things that are really important. Yes. Getting to that point of identifying this is what's important. Yeah, that isn't important. But the things that aren't important probably take up more space in your brain than they actually really deserve.
00:12:54
Speaker
Absolutely. And I had had a lady come to me because she's got herself in a pickle with work, day to day stuff, like you said, all this day to day clutter. And the big thing that she said to me was these sessions have made me see that I have a choice.
00:13:09
Speaker
I have a choice about whether at work I go into the staff room where people are gossiping. I have to interrupt you there because I was thinking these things that clutter our brain yeah are the negative things. And the word that was in my head was gossip.
00:13:24
Speaker
Gossip is definitely big one that a lot of clients talk to me about, particularly people who come with workplace stress. Huge, huge one. But so much of our media is dedicated to gossip. And the number of people that seem to have built careers on just gossiping about themselves and other people. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:45
Speaker
It's hardly surprising that in our own everyday lives, instead of seeing that as something that is manufactured, yeah we adopt the same types of behaviours, regardless of how destructive they can be.
00:13:58
Speaker
There's a huge amount of cultural pressure. One of the biggest things that my clients comment on is the sessions, giving them the confidence to go against the grain and go, but this really isn't nice.
00:14:11
Speaker
And it really, really stresses me, makes me feel miserable and and gaining that confidence to sort slowly edge away from those toxic parts of their life really are stopping them from being happy.
00:14:25
Speaker
Reminds me of something that was said to me when I was working in Hong Kong. the The good guys hang out with the good guys and the bad guys hang out with whoever they can. Yeah. Whoever will have them, essentially. Absolutely.
00:14:38
Speaker
Very often, I think one of the things that happens with our brains is that just because people ah appear to be having fun, We want to hang out with them, but actually yeah they can have a very negative negative impact on on us. Hugely. We can get ourselves into all sorts of situations that are really, really unpleasant. And I absolutely include myself. This is one of the biggest things for me before I started training to do this job.
00:15:06
Speaker
And once I started training to do the job, I just thought, oh my, I need to dismantle quite a lot of relationships in my life because I'd put myself in the position of the sort of the rescuer, the person that everybody comes to to ask for advice, et cetera, et cetera.
00:15:25
Speaker
Right. What part am I playing in all of this? What do I need to do to start to edge away from this? Because you can end up feeling very trapped. It's a big thing I hear from my clients. In fact, a lady who's come to see me at the moment has just decided to to actually end her relationship with her mum.
00:15:44
Speaker
I'm not giving advice for anybody. Everyone must do what is right for them. But for for her, it's given her the confidence to take control of her life, but in a positive way of controlling herself rather than trying to control others.
00:15:58
Speaker
what you have to get people to do is to treat themselves as an individual. Yes, very much, Michael. Absolutely. Never mind what's good for other people, what's good for you. So I see quite a lot of people with neurodiversity, a lot of people with ADHD, because they maybe have found out later in life that they have ADHD and they've all their life felt like a square peg trying to be forced into a round hole.
00:16:26
Speaker
you know, stop fidgeting, stop doing this, stop doing that. And they actually start to learn about this is what I need for my own needs because my needs are not the same as everybody else's.
00:16:38
Speaker
I need different things and that's okay. And it lets them off the hook. People are like, oh, what relief that I don't feel I need to follow these rules anymore.
00:16:50
Speaker
I can do what's right for me. And of course that tip that takes time because other people question you. Why are you doing that? you shouldn't do that, is' bad for you, or them building up the confidence to say, well, actually, this is right for me.
00:17:02
Speaker
In many ways, life is about fitting in. Yeah, that kept us safe when we were cave people. As human beings, we are social beings. We want to fit in with other people. What's the part of this solution-focused process that enables someone to build the confidence to be themselves?
00:17:20
Speaker
A really wonderful young girl of 17 that came to me. She said, I'm becoming more of an advocate for myself. I have to say, becoming an advocate for yourself is a brilliant expression. no it's It's so good, isn't it? 17 year old girl. She was beautiful character. She was just Lovely. And I've stolen that phrase and it's incredible. I'm going to say that you passed it on to me. Please use it freely. Everybody uses it. I will. So lovely.
00:17:47
Speaker
So we we talk to our clients about the stress bucket. The stress bucket is a really easy way for people to imagine, envisage their own mental health and

The Stress Bucket Metaphor

00:17:56
Speaker
capacity. So you literally think of a bucket in your head and in that bucket goes any kind of stress or anything we're dealing with. And I don't just mean trauma and grief. I mean, negative thoughts. so what stresses us is our thoughts.
00:18:12
Speaker
It's after the way we think about the events, which stresses. So when when we think negative thoughts, they get converted into anxiety. And that all goes into this stress bucket.
00:18:23
Speaker
So it's a very easy way. And a lot of my friends use it because they can say, my bucket is full. I can't take any more. The bucket is full. when I help people start to empty that bucket and also start to be aware of what's going in it.
00:18:38
Speaker
So that's another key thing of, watching how much you're putting in it or letting other people put in it. Once that bucket starts to empty, as you can imagine, a bucket emptying, you have a huge amount more capacity and you spend a lot more time in that intellectual brain where you make better decisions.
00:18:56
Speaker
And as that happens, people naturally start to become more confident in their own choices. So they feel they don't have to go around checking with everybody as much. They feel I've made this choice and actually ah because I'm in my intellectual brain at this point, I feel okay about it.
00:19:15
Speaker
It's the primitive brain that questions all those choices. You won't be part of the tribe anymore. safety behaviours really once we're not in that fight flight brain as much we can start to make the decisions based on ourselves and that's when that self-advocacy comes back in yeah when you said you're not part of this tribe anymore yeah sometimes the tribes that we're in are the convenient tribes absolutely yeah It's the people we went to school with. It's the people we work with. It's the people that live closest to us rather than the tribe of the people who are most interesting to us or who do the things that we are interested in. absolutely And those people may be more difficult to find, especially if you don't live in a big city.
00:19:58
Speaker
Definitely. But it is worth spending the time to find the people who are interested in what you're interested in. Yeah. You want to do what you want to do, because ultimately you will end up living

Building Connections and Routines

00:20:10
Speaker
fuller life. Oh, absolutely, Michael. Feeling deeper connections, feeling people understand you, feeling safer to you.
00:20:17
Speaker
talk about your own needs and ah vulnerabilities. You're so right. really is. And it can be a really scary time. You know, I've myself gone through that whole dismantling process of my life.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's a scary time. That's why we focus with our clients on making nice, small, manageable steps. that Their brain feels safe to take that next tiny step and then it can get used to being there And then it can move on to the next step. Because like you say, doing all of these things, it's an effort. takes energy to to go out and actually find the life that you want to find. So what our sessions do is let people off the hook, that it doesn't need to be a big step to make a big change. Actually, to make a big change, let's start really small. So for instance, one of my clients, in one of the exercises we do, which is called the miracle question, which is,
00:21:14
Speaker
where we we look for that tiny next step. Her action that she picked to do was I'm going to fill up my water bottle at 10pm tonight and I'm going to put it in the fridge so that when I get up tomorrow ah in the morning of my chaotic busy day,
00:21:32
Speaker
that water bottle is ready for me to take out the fridge and go out the door. And it starts my day really easily and well. And it's an action that she has, I still see her from time to time.
00:21:45
Speaker
She does it every single day of her life because it's manageable, but it really makes a difference. And when she went off to university, it really helped with the homesickness because it gave her a little hook.
00:22:00
Speaker
into her previous life. So it's those tiny, incredibly manageable steps. It's not too alarming to the brain. It's something achievable. And you immediately feel success.
00:22:13
Speaker
I've achieved it. I've done it. Because a lot of people that come to me have tried to do things so many times, but the step has been too large. And it's meant they failed. And that's gone in the stress bucket again, made much more difficult.

Commitment to Personal Change in Therapy

00:22:28
Speaker
I can see why this works for some people, perhaps the majority of people that engage with this type of solution focused therapy. Yeah. But how do people prepare for it? what Can anybody just start or is that you have to be in a particular state of mind or particular point in your own journey to make this successful and why people not successful?
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah. Sometimes things haven't got bad enough, Michael. It's like, People say to me, I've had your number for 18 months, but so taking that step of paying the money, talk meeting someone new, sometimes, not all the time, sometimes be so painful that there's no other option. So sometimes that happens.
00:23:14
Speaker
Reasons why people might not succeed is they might just not quite be ready. So maybe they do need to go and talk to a psychotherapist or a counsellor a little bit more about what their issues are and understand them a bit better. Maybe that would be right for them at that point.
00:23:33
Speaker
It is really important when people come to me that they're making a commitment to themselves. It's not to me, doesn't make any difference to me. that They understand that it's a process.
00:23:45
Speaker
And through that process, those goals and those things they want to achieve will probably change. Their needs will probably change. And in the process of trying to achieve the goal they've set, a whole host of other things might get solved and changed.
00:24:01
Speaker
So reasons why people don't succeed is if they come to me and they're not prepared to do the two things I'm asking them to do every day. because they're essential but for getting the brain in the right position.
00:24:15
Speaker
And if they're just not ready, maybe, like I say, things haven't got bad enough or they need to go somewhere else first. But essentially, if they are ready, this is six to 12 weeks of therapy which is focused on finding a solution, way forward yeah rather than other therapies that might be focused on coming to terms with the past.
00:24:39
Speaker
this is focused on the solution that is going to make the future a better place definitely if you're not ready for it you're not ready for it there's no shame in that it's just you have to have dressed at the issues of the past first yeah yeah um you know maybe they haven't but maybe they don't want to and maybe it's you know they're just like i just want to crack on the way you Yeah, maybe sometimes people think that, well, it happened, forget about it, I want to move forward.
00:25:09
Speaker
But sometimes, whilst that might be what you really want to do, there can be parts of your brain which are saying, no, we just need to put this to bed properly before we can move forward. Yeah.
00:25:21
Speaker
Absolutely. Like you say, you've got to assess where you are. The brain doesn't know the difference between imagination and reality. So when we're talking about something distressing, it will stress us because our brain will produce stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol yes so we have to be aware that about when that has got to a point where that's actually unbearable and that actually going on and that can that can also be like you were talking about earlier the people around us you know that might not necessarily be us talking about the past all the time
00:25:57
Speaker
The key thing is that everybody is different and yeah we have to work with the people that we care about to make sure that everybody is working towards the same common goal, regardless of what role it is that they play in that.
00:26:11
Speaker
But the other thing is, think that if you are going to go down this route, then you have to commit to it like everything else. If you want the success, you have to put the work in. absolutely. and You have to do the work in the way, you know, oh, well, they told me to do it this way. Well, I think I can do it better a different way.
00:26:27
Speaker
Do the training before you start making those decisions. Yeah, because in the type of therapy that I do, we don't give advice. We educate and we give a couple of tools. It's less prescriptive, you know, so you still have quite a lot of free reign in it within a structure.
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah, but you're providing the information that enables people to make the the right decisions for themselves rather than following a particular prescribed, you must do this, followed by this, followed by this. It's like, here is the information.
00:27:00
Speaker
How does that fit with what it is that you want to achieve? absolutely What do you need to do in order to apply that information to your individual situation? What will you be doing going further forward? Absolutely, absolutely. It's been very interesting.
00:27:15
Speaker
Thank you very much for helping me make this episode of Fit for My Age. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and in this episode of Fit for My Age, I have been having a conversation with Keira Smith, a solution-focused therapist.
00:27:32
Speaker
There is a link in the description to abbasida.co.uk where you'll find out more information about both of us. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Kira.
00:27:45
Speaker
If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests or if like Kira you have something very interesting to say matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made.
00:27:58
Speaker
There is a link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. At Fit for My Age our aim is proactive positive aging knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health that is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test York tests provide an assessment of 39 different health markers including cholesterol, diabetes, vitamin D, vitamin B12, liver function, iron deficiency, inflammation and a full blood count The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace
00:28:38
Speaker
Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UKAS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory. You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure personal wellness hub account.
00:28:56
Speaker
There is a link and discount code in the description. If you are listening to Fit for My Age on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:29:08
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:29:25
Speaker
That description is well worth reading. If you've liked this episode of Fit For My Age, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:29:40
Speaker
Remember the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of Fit For My Age, thank you for listening and goodbye.