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A Feast Fit for an Artpop Tart
141 Plays3 years ago
Get ready to FEAST on some Artpop Talk knowledge about radical hospitality and futurist cuisine! In this episode, we are wining and dining the tartlets with the bounty of still lives and the ornamentation of the dinner table. We will question how and where we share meals and who we get to share those meals with. Considering your place at the table as a viewer and participant in the holiday, stick around to listen to our discussion on “The Last Thanks” by artist Wendy Red Star.
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Transcript
Thanksgiving Traditions and Visual Culture
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. Gianna, are you getting hungry for that Thanksgiving feast?
00:00:11
Speaker
Greens, beans, potatoes, tomatoes and pigs in a blanket are coming my way and I could not be more excited. Well, before we get there, we are giving our brains a little feast with an art pop talk on the subject. Today, we will be looking at feasting throughout our visual culture and think about the positive and negative associations with the idea.
00:00:36
Speaker
We'll
Art and Cultural Satire: Redstar & Lippmann
00:00:36
Speaker
be looking at works in particular by Wendy Redstar, who uses what should be a familiar aesthetic to the art pop Tarte's kitsch, intended to satirize idealized views of American Indians. We will also be thinking about the action of cooking and the ornamentation of feasting and hospitality by looking at artists like Beth Lippmann, who looks to the bounty of still lives. Then we'll look to the futurist movement involving gastronomy.
00:01:03
Speaker
Let's all gather around the table and start shoveling this art pop talk down. What up, what up, what up? Hi!
00:01:14
Speaker
How's it going? It's good. It's good. Gianna, I have to tell you that last night Andrew and I watched Red Notice. Have you watched it? It just came out yesterday. Yes. I didn't hear anything about it. But Phoebe and I went out to dinner last night and came home. And he suggested that we watch that movie because it just popped up. But I didn't see till this morning. It is currently 8.20. It's very early for recording.
00:01:43
Speaker
And I saw that you had posted it on our story and I was cackling because I definitely noticed Venus in the corner. So you watched it? Yes. Yeah, I did. What did you think? Oh, this is good. This is good. I'm glad you watched it. Yeah. In the like beginning of it, I was really annoyed with the narrator's voice. I
Film Critique: "Red Notice"
00:02:08
Speaker
thought it was like a really bad choice. And then I was like, oh, I get it. It's like,
00:02:13
Speaker
like a commercial voice. So it, whatever, then it didn't bother me. But then I was like, this isn't very good. Or like this tone is kind of the tone that I would think, you know, an action comedy, Netflix movie.
00:02:32
Speaker
usually has. You know, Ryan Reynolds is playing a lovable douchebag like he always does. No surprise there. But then it did have a nice little twist. It did. So yeah, it wasn't like I've seen some other art heist movies, which have definitely not been good or like art thievery movies. There's a really old one with like,
00:02:58
Speaker
The dude from Hunger Games. What's his name? Josh Richardson? Oh yeah.
00:03:03
Speaker
Is that Hutchinson or Hutcher? Hutcherson, Josh Hutcherson. Josh Hutcherson, where he makes like a fraudulent art or makes like duplicates. Oh, I don't think I've seen that. That's a really bad one. I mean, don't watch it. But yeah, this had a nice twist. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like Lupin or anything. Let's be real. Yeah. Not bad for, you know, a little date night watch.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, no, I actually really ended up liking it. At first I was like a little bit skeptical. Also when they just open with Rome and there's just like random works of art like in this museum and Venus and then Venus is just like hanging out behind the rock in Rome.
00:03:48
Speaker
And she's just like primavera was nowhere to be found. There was no glass behind the artworks and I just like had a little bit of like a mini stroke whenever the first egg like you know exploded or whatever and there's like smoke everywhere. And I was like the unprotected artworks that are just Venus is just chilling you know in the background with like seemingly no protection over it like
00:04:13
Speaker
I just that would never like I know that none of these scenarios would ever happen but I was like the damage that is being done to these artworks like the fight scene that's happening in the museum I was like I also cackled is it I guess is it bad that I cackled really hard when the rock was hey sorry kid there's no food or drink in the gallery
00:04:38
Speaker
But I was like, I actually, I thought that was great. I thought that was great. Because I was like, that's the one piece of research that these people did about like the rules for our music.
00:04:50
Speaker
this movie, the bar, the commentary. I will say I guess the thing that was maybe the dorkiest part about it was this actual like egg concept. These three like eggs created for Cleopatra. Like it was the egg for me. I couldn't get on board with with like the way that it looked and everything.
00:05:18
Speaker
But the Ed Sheeran cameo at the end was kind of funny. Oh, I was about to say that was my least favorite part. I can get behind three eggs. I cannot get behind Ed Sheeran showing up at the end. I was like, all right. Ed Sheeran really freaks me out. Like, I don't know what it is about him. I think he's probably lizard person. You know, I don't know. There's something about him. And also, like, who let him get away with this, like, new music, too? I just have a hot take about that. So I'm definitely not an Ed Sheeran stan, but I did think
00:05:49
Speaker
like this bratty girl having this like three eggs presented to her and then having Ed Sheeran pop up was kind of, it fit the tone of this little doggy movie. It did, it definitely did. No, I actually really liked it also. Andrew astutely pointed out that whenever they go into the tunnel, which I thought was a very, I liked that part the best when they go to Argentina and they find like the bunker. I guess, spoiler alert.
00:06:19
Speaker
this movie yet, if you really wanted to save it.
NFTs and Blockchain in Art
00:06:23
Speaker
But he pointed out that Ryan Reynolds is whistling the little Indiana Jones theme. And whenever you see him in his little hat, I was like, oh, that's very Indiana Jones. And of course, there always has to be Nazis involved in an artist movie. I feel like that was also very taken from Indy, which I didn't mind so much.
00:06:44
Speaker
The bunker was so cool and I wanted to I wanted more shots of like what was in the bunker. Like what missing artwork from real life.
00:06:52
Speaker
do we think is actually there? Anytime I see Gal Gadot in another movie though I did this paper about people who play superheroes have a hard time getting roles or are they convincing us other roles because we have such ownership in these like fandom spaces um and I like came to bat for like Gal Gadot so in order to support my thesis of this like shitty film history paper I wrote I'm like she is amazing she did such a good job which I honestly felt like
00:07:21
Speaker
It was cute to see her in a different kind of action film. She was in one with Jon Hamm. It was like an action spy movie. Meet the Joneses. Yeah, I like that. Yes, I know. Well, are you kidding me? Jon Hamm and Gal Gadot? That is the ultimate fantasy. Beautiful people. I mean, so. Yeah, you can bet your ass. I was looking for Meet the Joneses. I was so excited. She can do no wrong.
00:07:47
Speaker
She truly can't she is I mean like I just to state the obvious like just on me like truly like her no truly and I just I thought she was so cool and I loved her how her character was like this like Evil kind of art thief like I liked that like cuz I feel like with Lupin or other kind of like art high stories it's kind of like I don't know there's something about like the
00:08:15
Speaker
I don't know, maybe the bad guy in those movies that's super not likable, but she was just so cool. And I just loved her persona, this witty, temptress, outsmarting the guys at every step of the way. I just loved it. Yeah, she had a little bit of crazy in her. I know. But I'm like, what are you doing?
00:08:36
Speaker
Robbing the lube, like you're an archivist there. My worlds were colliding. That's exactly what I said. That is exactly what I said. As soon as you saw the lube, I was like, she already works there. I know. She already has an employee badge. Like, what are you talking about? Well, I'm glad you watched it. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I was very pleasantly surprised. Yeah, same.
00:09:02
Speaker
Good, good. We love a good Art Heist movie. Please, Netflix. Actually, you know what? We did ask, and Netflix, you know, brought us the content we deserve. Like, we asked for more Art Heist stuff, they gave us Lupin, and then, you know, we were like, please bring more, and they did. Yeah, obviously, Netflix is totally tapped into Art Pop Talk, and they're just out of it. I can call it this time. The higher exact set Netflix are just honing in on APT.
00:09:32
Speaker
More Gal Gadot artist movies. You ask and you shall receive. Thank you, Netflix. But I think it is time for a little bit of art news. What do you think? I love it.
00:09:52
Speaker
Alrighty fam, we have a quick little art news coming from the art newspaper this week. Looking forward to Art Basel in Miami, which will be taking place on December 2nd through the 4th.
00:10:06
Speaker
For the first time, Art Basel will host an interactive exhibition of NFTs as part of a new collaboration with the open source blockchain Tezos. So I was looking at Tezos's website to understand what that was, what the open source blockchain was. Basically, it's my understanding that it's a Bitcoin agency.
00:10:29
Speaker
And the website's language, Gianna, is out of control. I was trying to understand. They were like, who we are. And I was like, okay, who are you, Tezos? And I did not understand who they were whatsoever. Honestly, the more we talk about NFTs, the less I understand it. Yeah. Well, truly. But Tezos is not necessarily like an NFT maker. They are a Bitcoin house.
00:10:58
Speaker
So it's part of the reason why just like all the carbon emissions and like they're storing all of the like, are they like the warehouse with like the
00:11:10
Speaker
the actual physical pieces of technology are there and like burning a whole nose on there? I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure that's part of like the back end processes. But I was gonna say, yeah, I don't know much about Bitcoin. But I do know that it's really, really bad for the environment. Because the mining process takes so much energy. So anywho, at this exhibition, visitors can create an AI self portrait of themselves then minted as an NFT to go.
00:11:40
Speaker
Another word I had to learn while reading this art news was minting. Minting and NFT is how your digital art becomes a part of the blockchain, which is a public ledger that is unchangeable and tamper-proof. So similar to the way that metal coins like our coinage are minted and then added into circulation,
00:12:07
Speaker
NFTs are also tokens that get minted once they are created. So your digital artwork is represented as an NFT, which can then be purchased and traded in the market, and it's digitally tracked as it is resold or collected again in the future. Your digital artwork is represented as an NFT, so it can then be purchased and traded in the market and digitally tracked at its
00:12:36
Speaker
as it is resold or collected again in the future. So this exhibition at Art Basel is titled Humans and Machines, NFTs in the Ever-Changing World of Art. This will feature a number of works from generative and NFT artists. The German artist Mario Klingermann has also designed an algorithm embedded into the exhibition space.
00:12:59
Speaker
with which visitors can interact to create their own abstract self-portraits that are again minted onto the Tezos blockchain in particular. So that's also kind of another interesting collaborative kind of component of this exhibition with that
00:13:17
Speaker
big tech company that I thought was interesting. The artist said, quote, while the body of work may be created by the machine, a self-portrait is a deeply human thing. So I hope this probes question around human nature and perception and all that expresses itself with automated systems. Along with the exhibition, there will be talks, a kind of series featuring prominent artists in the NFT world that will cover technical, philosophical,
00:13:46
Speaker
and artistic implications and possibilities created by blockchain-based art. And then according to a Tezos press release, the exhibition, quote, aims to raise awareness of the new dynamic that both NFTs and the ever-evolving world of generative art bring to the art world. So Gianna, what do we think about this exhibition at Art Basel?
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I think aside from just like the concept, I think it's really interesting that they were
00:14:20
Speaker
able to pull together this idea really fast. Because I feel like NFTs in the art world have been kind of a new thing. And it wasn't that long ago where we were talking about art news and how this gentleman and this artist just sold his digital piece at auction. And it was the largest amount a piece had gone for involving NFTs. So I also think
00:14:50
Speaker
It is important and meeting that moment is important. However, I am kind of impressed they were able to pull it off that fast. Because to me, when I think of something like Art Basel, like it's something that is planned, like highly, highly, you know. In advance. Yes, in advance. So yeah, I'm interested. I'm also a little bit scared.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see what comes of this, again, collaboration with a big tech company. I don't think it's necessarily like inherently a bad thing. Obviously, it's kind of promotional in that sense. But, you know, I want to see with the, you know, this evolvement of the art world, what opportunities big tech will create for art and artists and museums and, you know,
00:15:46
Speaker
people and items of that nature. I'm curious about maybe the artworks that we'll get that might be critiquing the NFTs of it all too and critiquing the way that this like digital currency is kind of like also consuming the art world. So that should be interesting too. Yeah, it'll be nice to kind of follow up with Art Basel. So again, Art Basel is happening December 2nd through 4th. So we'll have to do an update.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah. All righty. Well, are we ready for today's art pop talk, Gianna? Um, indeed. Definitely ready. For
Historical Art References in Glass Works
00:16:27
Speaker
today's art pop talk, we are looking at the art of feasting. We'll be thinking about the visual history of this concept, the art forms that it takes, and the positive and negative associations it has.
00:16:45
Speaker
And we'll be looking at the work of artists such as Wendy Redstar and Beth Litman for some examples. SiGiana, do you want to start us off? Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:57
Speaker
I would first like to kind of start this conversation about where feasting takes place and that kind of history, ornamentation and decoration of it all, which is typically a table, right? I think this conversation lends itself well to a lot of prior topics that we have addressed.
00:17:16
Speaker
You can think of something like a dining table or a dinner party in the feminist sense like we've talked about for Judy the ornamentation of the body and all these different aspects of like classic still lives or portraiture as well.
00:17:32
Speaker
So I would like to kick things off with the artist Beth Lippmann. Her art reminds us of where we came from, the subjectivity of history and the need for harmony with the larger world. So she is primarily a glass artist and is renowned for her sculptural compositions, which recreates the bounty and visual substance or richness of Renaissance and Baroque still life paintings.
00:17:59
Speaker
also particularly 17th century Dutch scenes. Lippmann takes elements from these paintings, these static compositions, expressive light, an opulent decoration, and translates the scene into 3D glass installations or works.
00:18:17
Speaker
Her objects, like those in the paintings, are chosen for their connotations. Overturned goblets and broken glasses symbolize human frailty and mortality. Such 16th or 17th century Dutch paintings are attested to the owner's wealth or the intellectual engagement that comes with that symbolization or those paintings.
00:18:39
Speaker
So foods depicted had symbolic significance, often related to biblical text, how the objects were arranged, the ways in which they were consumed, and how that consumption conveyed a message about the fleeting nature of time.
00:18:52
Speaker
So I wanted to consider her piece Banketch, which essentially means banquet from 2003. And it's a 20 foot long oak table laid with 400 blown and lampwork glass objects. This piece captures a visual sumptuousness and excess of a feast like the one depicted in a 17th century Dutch still life painting called Banketch.
00:19:15
Speaker
Like these elaborate scenes, Lippmann's half-eaten morsels overturned goblets and snuffed candles symbolically depict the impermeance of life. By rendering the scene in transparent glass and skillfully blending the various components, Lippmann demands that the piece be seen as a whole and not as this assemblage of individual objects. So to quote her, the glass creates a tangible third dimension,
00:19:41
Speaker
capturing the painting's polished quality. Its transparency suggests an ideal form, the essence of the object.
00:19:50
Speaker
So again I do think that this image and Bianca and I are looking at one right now is a good example of this hyper kind of ornamentation considering a contemporary piece hearkening back to these historic still lives. When I think of something like a decorated table this is something that that's on like a formal long dining room table.
00:20:15
Speaker
I also think this idea of bounty, plentifulness, this ephemeral, evolving and universal quality that is sharing a meal and also tying in ornamentation to that. So even though food and sharing a meal are universal, it does look different from person to person. So I guess I just wanted to give us a jumping off point to also talk about hospitality.
00:20:43
Speaker
when it comes to sharing a meal and gives us like a tangible location for where a meal takes place also in terms of politics and of culture as well. So now that we have maybe this like place or this history about where food kind of takes place and how it's been presented to us but also I mean how it's been documented just visually
00:21:07
Speaker
Uh, we're going to kind of jump very far into the future starting in the 1930s. And not only will food be documented differently, but we'll also get into kind of the more performative aspects of food as well. In December 28, 1930, Turin newspaper published a full page manifesto of futurist cuisine from founder Filippo Tommaso Marinetti.
00:21:33
Speaker
which we have talked about him before. So starting in 1909, aiming to revolutionize art, literature, music, theater, dance, and particularly food, rejecting the styles of the past to dynamically embrace modern life.
00:21:49
Speaker
So yay to futurism. Remember our lovely futurism conversation. But the futurists delivered a jolt to all the particular and intellectual activities that up to this point had governed the cultural, civil, and political scene. So gastronomy is a practice of art,
00:22:11
Speaker
of choosing cooking and eating good food, needed essentially this good shake or reawakening in its spirit in the eyes of Futurists. Futurists cuisine, expressly defined by Marinetti as a true, quote, revolution of cuisine, was described in a manual filled with recipes, menus and suggestions.
00:22:34
Speaker
At the time, people may do with little and the food industry, except for a few brands, remained at the artisanal level. If we're looking at the futurist gastronomy manifesto today, we can see that some of Marinetti's suggestions indeed found application. Some examples include using additives or preservatives added to the food or using technological tools in the kitchen.
00:23:02
Speaker
to mince, to pulverize food. The recipes that then seem so revolutionary were in some cases a preview of what Italian style nouvelle cuisine could be. And nouvelle cuisine is this approach to cooking and food preparation in particular French culture. So it's kind of this like fusion of food. The forerunner chef
00:23:25
Speaker
of Futurist cuisine was the Frenchman Jules Mencave who joined Futurism in 1914. Bored with the quote traditional method of monotonous mixtures to the point of stupidity and proposed quote bringing together elements separated by biases that have no true foundation. Filet of mutton and shrimp sauce
00:23:48
Speaker
Prime veal and absinthe, banana Gruyere, herring and strawberry gelatin. Sounds gross.
00:23:56
Speaker
Marinetti waged a famous and unpopular war against, quote, starchy foods like pasta, saying that it's this ball or relic that Italians put in their stomachs like convicts or archaeologists, which, like, this fucking guy, am I right? This fucking guy is such a loser. He's not Italian. Like, get out. In addition to condemning pasta and absolving rice, the manifesto predicted the abolition of the knife and fork
00:24:24
Speaker
and traditional condiments. And I also encourage music, poetry, and perfume to be paired with meals as well.
00:24:33
Speaker
So futurists also tried to Italianize a few terms of foreign origin. So essentially they just gave different types of drink and food different names. So an example is a cocktail became the pola bibitta, which I guess means multi drink, and there's a lot of other ones.
00:24:56
Speaker
So some of these concepts that are laid out in this kind of culinary manifesto are interesting, and I already mentioned a couple of them, but going back to the table,
00:25:10
Speaker
One of the rules is that there needs to be an original harmony of the table. There needs to be crystalware, there needs to be glassware, there needs to be decoration. And it also needs to match the flavors and the colors of the dishes, right? All of that has to have a balance to it. The dishes also need to be utterly original as well, no basic plates here. There needs to be this measured use of poetry and music.
00:25:39
Speaker
as unexpected ingredients to awaken flavors of your given dish. Another interesting thing is that there should also be no religious or political talks at the table either. All those things kind of need to wait till after your meal, which I think is kind of interesting. I think maybe in the sense of the futurist movement, that is maybe a way to kind of equalize a dinner experience.
00:26:09
Speaker
So moving a little bit forward, the Smithsonian did a good job of encapsulating food in art now evolving through time. So if we kind of get past futurism, kind of how they did pave a way for flexis and these other things, we can look at these other moments in time. So really quickly, during the pop art era, food became a social metaphor. Our OG boy of APT, Wayne Tebode, painted rows of pies and cakes in bright pastel colors,
00:26:39
Speaker
that brought to mind advertisements and children's toys. Presented like displays at a diner rather than this private life, this private dinner table that we've been looking at. His arrangements reflect an itinerant society in which sumptuous desserts signify American abundance.
00:26:57
Speaker
At around the same time, artists begin using real food as an art material. Writer Sharon Butler uses the sardonic Swiss German artist Dieter Roth, also known as Dieter Roe, who in the 70s made a piece titled, Staple Cheese, a Race.
00:27:14
Speaker
a pun of the steeple chase that comprise 37 suitcases filled with cheese and other cheeses pressed onto the walls with the intention that they would drip or race towards the floor. A few days after the exhibition opening in Los Angeles, the exhibition gave off an unbearable stench
00:27:35
Speaker
the gallery became overrun with maggots and flies and the public health inspector threatened to close it down. The artist declared that the insects were in fact his intended audience. And so I think we can move a little bit faster and not cover this as much as these are things we have talked about but this lends itself to flexis and feminism in the 70s. Things again we have talked about. We have Judy giving us this feast with the dinner party so
00:28:03
Speaker
There is this long history. And then again, we continue to see this combination of conceptual ideas of ornamentation and presentation and how that comes with the idea of consuming. So Bianca, how are we feeling about this history? How are we feeling about, unfortunately, Futurists giving us so much?
00:28:25
Speaker
I have to say this is, I'm gonna use our favorite phrase, wildly fascinating. I hate Marinetti with the passion, the fact that he was trying to abolish pasta just
00:28:38
Speaker
hurts, hurts deep.
Italian Futurism and Cuisine
00:28:40
Speaker
However, I do think that the accompaniment of like music and poetry and this added element that he's, you know, kind of prescribing with Emil is really interesting. I like this idea of the Italian Futurist cookbook. I don't like that it's like Italian Futurist, but I think that of course we have this like
00:29:02
Speaker
you know, convoluted sense of cooking where he's renaming things like a multi-drink, a sin, which is called a between the two and, you know, desserts were for standing up. It's just like, you know, he's being arrogant with cooking and sometimes I think that there are these two sides of cooking, right? We kind of have this elevated status. We have this richness of food and I think that's, you know,
00:29:28
Speaker
the indulgence and abundance of food, the idea of gluttony, which we'll get into in a little bit, is certainly present. But I also think that there's something about food that is really humble. And again, maybe we're jumping ahead getting into those positive and negative associations of feasting.
00:29:48
Speaker
I really like what you're talking about here, Gianna, with especially Beth Littman, thinking about that adornment of the table and how that relates to Marinetti and this idea of food presentation and your dishware and where we even get this idea to decorate your table.
00:30:05
Speaker
It's all really really cool. I do think it is interesting however that you're bringing up this idea of food being this humbling experience when in ways I think Marinetti is doing the exact opposite. I mean thinking about Italian futurism also working to like Italianize other types of food and being punny with it but then also
00:30:28
Speaker
thinking of something like pasta which from like humble beginnings has turned like so much these days into like modern types of food and how we kind of reinvent pasta. How we can think about ratatouille. I think that with meals there are there's a certain elevation but there there always is something
00:30:51
Speaker
that food can trace back to that is humble in nature. And I think you see that so well and in Ratatouille, you know, when she says that this is a peasant dish, but you know, it turns into this kind of elevated experience. Well, and a lot of different forms of like pasta dishes were used as a means not to waste food.
00:31:09
Speaker
And so I don't know, I think that's really interesting too. We have these kind of makings of trying to make a dinner table more democratic, but then also you're elevating food in such a way that you're critiquing peasant food.
00:31:26
Speaker
Um, so anyways, yeah, I, I agree though. You know, obviously super interesting stuff. So continuing, I guess, to think about dinner tables in terms of being hospitable or being democratic. I came across a book that was published in conjunction with an exhibition called feast radical hospitality and contemporary art.
00:31:48
Speaker
Quote, feast offers the first survey of the artist orchestrated meal since the 1930s. The act of sharing food and drink has been used to advance aesthetics, goals, and foster critical engagement with the culture of the moment. The meal here is used as a means to shift perspectives and spark encounters that aren't always possible in a fast moving and segmented society.
00:32:14
Speaker
So the book covers a lot of what we just spoke about however there are some artists that were featured in their 2012 exhibition that I thought could be good to talk about as well in terms of feasting food and shared experiences. So in this exhibition there is an art collective featured created by two artists David Allen Burns and Austin Youngs.
00:32:35
Speaker
And it's called Fallen Fruit that I thought was really interesting because this show, or in the show, we have our girl, Elsa Knowles, we have Marina, we have Ule, and then we have performance artists that have used food. But this group, I guess it is a little bit performative in nature, which I'll get into, but this group uses it more
00:33:00
Speaker
indirectly, perhaps uses performance indirectly, they are not the ones performing it, but they're really using a vast landscape for other people to participate. So to quote fallen fruit,
00:33:12
Speaker
We make our installations and plant fruit trees in public spaces for everyone to share. We invite you to experience your city as a fruitful place to radically shift public participation and the function of urban spaces and to explore the meaning of community through creating and sharing new and abundant resources like fruit trees.
Fallen Fruit: Community and Art
00:33:33
Speaker
So Fallen Fruit is an art project that began in Los Angeles by creating maps of public fruit, the fruit tree growing on and over public property. The work of Fallen Fruit includes photographic portraits, experimental documentary videos, and site-specific installation works.
00:33:51
Speaker
Using fruit and public spaces and public archives as a material for interrogating the familiar, fallen fruit investigates interstitial urban spaces, bodies of knowledge, and new forms of citizenship aim to reconfigure the relationship of sharing and exploring understanding of what is considered both public and private. From their work, the artists have learned that fruit is symbolic,
00:34:16
Speaker
and that it can be many things. It's a subject and an object at the same time in its aesthetic.
00:34:22
Speaker
much of the work they create is linked to the idea of place and generalization of knowledge and it echoes a sense of connectedness with something very primal, our capacity to share the world with others. So I also liked this example and using them in terms of fruit because that's something that's been familiar to us here on the podcast to also talk about. So we already knew
00:34:47
Speaker
that fruit is something that is super, super loaded. But talking about it in terms of sharing this bounty, I think is super interesting. And of course, mainly what we have been talking about, even in the sense of the Futurist Manifesto, is creating and curating this experience that you have control over. We have this documentation
00:35:11
Speaker
of dining experiences of still lifes in traditional forms of art and painting. So we've talked about that. But what does it mean for food to be publicly shared? And I think it's this idea of the invitation. You are invited. So I have an image here that we're looking at, and I will share this for our resources. But it's essentially a map. And that's kind of the visual record that I have of this piece.
00:35:41
Speaker
when this art collective documents its work, it kind of takes writing in a lot of different mediums through film, through photographs, but also this idea of the map as well as a public space. So Bianca, I'm curious what you think of this collective. Yeah, this is really cool. I like the idea also that in terms of documentation, we have this map, I think that
00:36:10
Speaker
Like the artists are pointing out, food is so tied with community, it's so tied with location and region and geography. And especially when you're dealing with agriculture and where we get our food from. I think that's also another really interesting
00:36:26
Speaker
thing that we need to put into perspective as well. So I hope that the map does kind of bring that in or hone in on this idea of your food doesn't just come to you in a grocery store, you know, your food just doesn't come to you like ready to go wrapped in plastic. There are people and workers and land and animals and plants that
00:36:45
Speaker
all are behind where you get this food and then it comes together in this very communal aspect at your table. So got me thinking too about kind of memories of my own community which was a little bit fun for me. You know I have this like very recent memory and I'm sure it will happen again because I can't take Ann and Maria anywhere because if she walks past like a fig tree which is you know there's not an abundance of them in Oklahoma but she'll start like
00:37:11
Speaker
munching on somebody else's victory and um we were walking by this restaurant that had a fig plant and you know at first i'm like mom what are you doing like get out of this bush like stop eating this this fig but i'm like no man like you do you like
00:37:26
Speaker
eat this fig. It's a restaurant. It's this idea of a food experience. Are they really going to get mad if you eat this fig? Also, when Theban and I were in Arkansas, too, and we were in the national park, there was a lot of pecan trees. Literally, on my little hiking trail, I was just munching on these pecans.
00:37:46
Speaker
I remember this public park this really really tiny park in Edmond I remember going there as a kid and I remember it had a bunch of pecans and I would want to go to this park because mom and I would like munch on pecans together and so I thought that was also kind of fun for me to kind of think about like public spaces and this my like natural food source in suburbia and
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah, but also what can your community provide for you in terms of nourishment? I think there's also something too where we forget that there's a lot of accessibility problems when it comes to food and our communities can create those spaces, those natural spaces where fallen fruit is for the public, where it is for anybody, where it's accessible because our
00:38:44
Speaker
So in thinking about our time that we have for today, Gianna and I wanted to think about gluttony and how gluttony has been depicted in art. And I don't know that we have enough time to go in depth before we get into Wendy Redstar. So I'll just say that we will link some of those articles that we found for you in our resources page. A lot of those images, you know, come about through Dionysus and Bacchus.
00:39:05
Speaker
Our world provides that for us.
00:39:13
Speaker
thinking about gluttony and you know the intake of wine of course. And then we also get a lot of Dutch painting which I was thinking about with Peter Breugel the Elder of course. Paul Cadmus has a more contemporary work about the seven deadly sins including gluttony, some work from Frans Hals going back to Dutch painting.
00:39:33
Speaker
That might also link, if you're more curious, back to Beth Lippmann as well and kind of thinking about those paintings that she's referencing in her more contemporary sculpture. But for time, we are going to take a lethal break and whenever we come back, Gianna is going to talk about Wendy Redstar.
00:40:19
Speaker
Hello
Wendy Redstar's Cultural Critique
00:40:20
Speaker
everybody and welcome back and let's get ready to talk about Wendy Redstar. Redstar, now based in Portland, Oregon, grew up on the Absaloka Crow reservation in Montana. She earned a BFA from Montana University in 2004 and an MFA in sculpture from the University of California, Los Angeles in 2006.
00:40:42
Speaker
the same year she created the Four Seasons. The images play off historical dioramas depicting the artists surrounded by kitsch trappistries, plastic flowers, artificial leaves, inflatable animals, intended to satirize idealized views of American Indians as one with nature.
00:41:01
Speaker
So the Four Seasons art that she has created this series I think is a good jumping off point when especially talking about the kitsch of it all. Because this is the time where we now are getting into the subject of Thanksgiving specifically keeping up with our November theme. So
00:41:20
Speaker
I want to consider her piece, The Last Thanks, which I found described as quote, flanked by skeletons wearing paper feather headdresses. The photograph calls to mind the stereotypes perpetuated in elementary school each November. The Thanksgiving meal has been replaced with processed foods, included bologna, craft singles, wonder bread,
00:41:43
Speaker
and oatmeal cream pies representing the food Red Star ate when visiting her grandmother as a child. The image is complex in its use of humor laced with religious iconography and allusions to tragedy that befell Native Americans after the first Thanksgiving in America.
00:42:03
Speaker
So the artist Red Star describes her work with quote, the look pulls people in, but as you look closer, you can see the image deteriorate. And if you are more privy to native history, you can see it right away. As one examines the last thanks, it is evident that Leonardo da Vinci's famous painting, The Last Supper, sparks Wendy Red Star's inspiration for this photograph. Red Star is even posed similarly as Jesus Christ.
00:42:31
Speaker
So she does use her own body in this photograph as well. With the obvious comparison to Da Vinci's famous piece, Red Star's artwork, quote, successfully forces the viewer to critique colonialism and religion with every examination of the image. So this is actually a piece one of our friends and art pop tarts had brought to our attention before. And I studied this in my Native American art history class
00:42:59
Speaker
in regards to contemporary art so this is a very like revered photograph in native contemporary art and there are a lot of different copies of it with it being a photograph so I've chances are if I don't know you might have the opportunity to see this piece is what I'm saying. One of the things I wanted to say about this piece is my first examination of it
00:43:21
Speaker
seems like with the commercialized kind of Americanized food, right? Full of preservatives. When you think of like Wonder Bread, I feel like it's this like total like critique, like slam on like what America is, right? But it was interesting to learn about the description of the food choice and how she actually does have a connection to it too. So Bianca, any thoughts about this piece, about the inflatables? I thought in particular,
00:43:51
Speaker
you know, when I see these kind of like paper, colorful, like headdresses being worn, I was really happy to see it be described as this critique of how in elementary school we dress up as pilgrims and Indians. And I think that really comes through. That's how I thought of it as well. This statement, she has this quote where she says, the look pulls people in, but as you look closer, you can see the image deteriorate.
00:44:18
Speaker
And I think that that is really poignant because just visually, when you look at this image, it looks like something familiar. It looks like something that's set up as a Western piece of art history, referencing, you know, Da Vinci's Last Supper. But the colors, the table, the kind of gingham tablecloth that the piece is using.
00:44:41
Speaker
It looks inviting at the outset, of course. And I think that that's something that's really powerful because it invites viewers who may not normally self critique to take a closer look and critique themselves and their traditions. And absolutely these, I mean, it's horrific that in school, you know, Gianna and I definitely had to do that in elementary school, every Thanksgiving, you know, as a kid, you are taught that this is
00:45:10
Speaker
This is okay. This is normalized. This is what Thanksgiving is. Well, and I remember my first experience of doing that. I kind of feel like we've even talked about this on the podcast before, but my earliest memory of, of doing the first Thanksgiving was in fact kindergarten and it's kindergarten kind of crazy that I remember it, but I remember rolling out a big, um, you know, sheet of craft paper in the hallway and, you know, drawing like a dinner plate on it and, you know, pilgrims sit on this side.
00:45:40
Speaker
Indians sit on the side. Right, quote unquote. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I also think it's interesting that this kind of like inflatable turkey in the background is the only figure wearing the quote unquote pilgrim hat, you know? Well, I think the other other interesting thing about this piece in terms of we have this reference to like early childhood education and our experience in America with with learning about
00:46:08
Speaker
and not learning about colonialism, right? Right. Is that we are given access to this side of the table, the Native American side on the table. We are the person and the viewer on the other side. Which is really interesting. Like you as a viewer have an active role in this piece, which is part of the reason why the photograph is so compelling. Yeah. Ooh, Gianna, that's really interesting thinking about this idea of kind of
00:46:37
Speaker
sides and your place at the table, your seat at the table and how you're going to participate moving forward. That is super interesting. I think there's something clever about the aesthetics too, like the checkerboard tablecloth. Again, these kind of like homey American foods too, even though she has a connection to them, I think it's also kind of
00:47:04
Speaker
giving me this idea of a picnic as well. And I think there's something kind of that we think is like wholesome about a picnic or there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with a picnic. Well, we also think of a picnic as being like white apple pie American families. Like a picnic is an activity that anyone can participate in. And we think of Wonder Bread as being this, oh, this like Americanized food. Well, yeah, but you got to think about
00:47:34
Speaker
Americans overall, it's, there is an association with white people eating their Wonder Bread sandwiches. You know, that's kind of what we get in my big fat Greek wedding, but there's something also kind of within, you know, different regions of America and different people of America who participate and what food is accessible.
00:47:55
Speaker
Like what food is affordable? That's another interesting thing about the items that she has on the table. Well also more importantly too, again on the flip side, what foods are accessible to also Native American people today too? Especially on certain reservations like the markups of certain foods and access to certain foods is also
00:48:18
Speaker
a topic and a point that I think is being addressed here, too. You know, I think the subtle triptych in the background with the landscape is also part of that gesture towards this quintessential example of what a supper is in that religious connotation, too. And then I think just kind of true to her Four Seasons series and work that really kind of helped put her on the map with the turkey inflatable in the background, too.
00:48:48
Speaker
You know, it's kind of like a marker in her work. And that's part of, I guess, just how I view it, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, Gianna, thank you so much for everything you did for this episode. It was so interesting. I feel like I got to learn so much from you today.
Upcoming Episodes Preview
00:49:05
Speaker
It was awesome.
00:49:08
Speaker
Happy to help out, you know, doing my job as, you know, the co-host of APT. You're doing a great job. You're doing a great job. Oh, why thank you. My goodness, we are not going to talk to the art pop turds for a while. I know we're going to be off for a week, so we hope that
00:49:27
Speaker
Everyone enjoys next week with your lovely Thanksgiving. Hopefully you are being conscientious as well about your place and your Thanksgiving traditions. So a reminder, yes, no episode next week, because we will be feasting with our fam's vagina. Do you know what's gonna happen after we return from Thanksgiving break? I do. I do indeed. Are you so excited? I'm so excited.
00:49:57
Speaker
In two weeks, we will return on November 30th with APT fashion expert, Jewel Poro, for your recap of House of Gucci. So make sure that you're all maxed up, get that booster shot, get your tasty little tartlet booties over to your local theater for a Gaga extravaganza. And don't forget, you can follow us on all the platforms at artpoptalk, email us at artpoptalk on gmail.com,
00:50:25
Speaker
If you like this content, head over to our Buy Me a Coffee account. Donate to the podcast. Buy us a little coffee so that we can keep going. And with that, we will talk to you in two weeks, our little tartlets. Yay. Bye, everyone. Bye. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner, and photography is by Adrian Turner.
00:50:55
Speaker
and our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.