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17. Mourning Doves- With Liza Peterson
92 Plays5 years ago
Liza Peterson shares her journey of grief and mourning after the death of both her parents, and how this major life transition and heart break has been one of the biggest catalysts for her own growth.
Get in touch with Liza: IG @lizapeterson8686
Music: www.rinaldisound.net
Production: Carlos Andres Londono
Get it touch with Kendra: www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Growth
00:00:00
Speaker
And that's another thing my parents taught me. Basically, when things are tough, Liza, that's when you grow. You know, if it's not tough, you don't grow. You know, like if it stays stagnant, if everything is hunky-dory and wonderful, there is no growth. And without growth, you're really not going to be happy and you're not going to develop as a person and you're not going to be able to be a contributing member of society and help other people.
About the Podcast and Guest Introduction
00:00:27
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:51
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:15
Speaker
Welcome to today's podcast. Today, I have my new friend, Liza Peterson on. I want to say a little bit of how it is that we connected. We've actually never met. Liza is friends with two of my former guests in this show, Valerie and Kim. She listened to their episodes and
00:01:43
Speaker
reconnect, you know, connected with me and we were able to talk and she loved to share her story. And so that's how we connected. So I'm so excited to have you on, Liza. I'm thrilled to be here. What a wonderful thing that you're doing here. It's really super, it was important when we initially connected, but even more so now with everything going on in the world.
00:02:08
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely.
Navigating Grief During Global Events
00:02:10
Speaker
There's always different layers of grief. And the moment that we're recording this is, of course, during the pandemic and at the same time, a lot of protests and a lot of people standing for justice in this country and actually in others as well. So a lot of change and transitions going on around the world. Absolutely.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah. So it's definitely, a lot of people probably experiencing grief through that process. But, um, yeah. So when Liza and I spoke a few weeks ago, just to kind of get to know each other and really see what it was we were going to share in this call, we connected in different levels too. We realized we're both theater majors. So if we end up talking a little, we actually did a little, uh, warmup with our voices just right before, did we not?
00:03:05
Speaker
Yes, toy boat, toy boat. We did toy boat because my tongue was kind of stuck in the Spanish mode because I'd just been speaking to my husband and I was like, wait, wait, I need to kind of reprogram my brain. I'm going to be speaking English now. I need to kind of reprogram my brain and my tongue so that I don't have as thick of an accent when I'm talking. So we were doing some warm up exercises before we started reparting.
Homeschooling and Local Life During the Pandemic
00:03:30
Speaker
a little behind the scenes truth. So Liza, tell us a little bit about you, where do you live, your kids, and such. Sure. I live in Chappaqua, New York, which is actually the town I grew up in, left for a while and moved back 10 years ago.
00:03:53
Speaker
I have four kids, uh, a daughter and three sons, uh, that range in age from six to 16. So we have a full house, full house, busy. And the last few months of being home, I had you homeschooled before this, or we did not homeschool before this, but these last three months of, I guess what they call now distance learning.
00:04:18
Speaker
This is learning, right? But that's a parent. I've been a lot. My older two are teenagers, so they're pretty self-sufficient. But the younger two are first and second grade. And those little boys have needed a lot of help. And it's definitely been challenging.
00:04:36
Speaker
I do have a teaching degree, but it's different when you're teaching other children as opposed to teaching your own. Oh, I know that so well. I used to own a children's gym. I remember when I had the kids there and I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm
00:04:53
Speaker
so good with kids. Oh, and I'm a mom, I'm going to be so good because I can get these kids to listen and all the kids at the gym. And then when I had my own kids, I was like, wait, why don't they listen to me? Like, why don't the kids when I worked at the gym would listen to me, but my own.
00:05:07
Speaker
on my own children. Well, it's, it's, they're very clear that you're not their teacher and your mom. I know it's so funny, but it definitely, it's like a shock. Like when you have come from the education back, like, you know, from being a teacher in some shape or form, and then you have to teach your own kids, right? It's a little bit like I'm a shock. Like you're like, wait, why, why? And I feel for those teachers, you know, cause I'm not actively teaching right now who are actively teaching as well as schooling their own children.
00:05:37
Speaker
One of my children who's in first grade, his teacher has four kids like me and they're even younger than my group. And I can't even imagine doing the distance learning while keeping her four children together.
00:05:52
Speaker
Wow, yeah, that's a big undertaking there for her, for sure. And so you have the four kids, they live in the East Coast, and you're back in the same town you grew up with. Now, what other city is the town? I don't think I can pronounce it. Chappaqua. Chappaqua. It's known pretty well because former President Clinton and Hillary Clinton live here in our town.
00:06:17
Speaker
Oh, it's in Westchester County, a little less than an hour outside of New York City.
00:06:23
Speaker
Okay.
Family Tragedies and Strength
00:06:24
Speaker
Okay. You see, but I did not, that's one little trivia question I did not know of, of, of Mr, you know, former president Clinton being from there. So now I know, and now I can't know that. So thank you. He's one of, there are two notables in chapel, Bob, but I would say a former president of Bill Clinton. And there's Liza Peterson, of course, and Liza from. Why thank you, Kendra.
00:06:49
Speaker
I've got more standout names from the town. That's awesome that you came back to where you grew up. And so we talked then a little bit beforehand again about what it is you wanted to share and you've had a very
00:07:08
Speaker
Well, I don't know how, trying, last year, trying would be, I don't know if that's the right word, difficult, life-changing, challenging, lots of words, challenging last year. And so let's start with that sharing about your dad, so we could start there. Sure. Well, actually three years ago, almost,
00:07:37
Speaker
2016, my father was diagnosed with a type of cancer called mantle cell lymphoma, which is a blood cancer.
00:07:49
Speaker
We found out that he had it just three weeks after my mother had retired from a job she had worked at for over 30 something years. And it was a very unexpected diagnosis. He was walking around, seeming very healthy, playing golf in Palm Springs with my mom. And shortly after his diagnosis, after
00:08:14
Speaker
a lot of treatment with like the top doctor, I think really in this world for this type of cancer. Sadly, nothing seemed to work. And from the time of diagnosis to the time he passed away, which was September of 2017, was only 18 months that we lost my dad. And, you know, that was really my first
00:08:38
Speaker
first, well, really my second loss, a major loss in the family. We had lost my mom's brother a couple of years before that to pancreatic cancer, but certainly as my parent, it was a little bit of a different type of loss.
00:08:57
Speaker
Can I ask you, I'm so sorry to interrupt you because you had, um, you just said your, your, your uncle had passed away and he's your mom's brother. So how did your, with your mom, then that meant that for her to really, really close people in her life, the brother and then husband passed away within a very short period of time. How, how was your, how did your mom?
00:09:22
Speaker
What did you see in your mom after your uncle passed away and how she dealt with her grief after he passed away? And then did that carry through a little bit of how she showed the grief after your dad passed? Yeah, absolutely. And you said something that was very evident to me as her daughter that my mom
00:09:43
Speaker
was her only sibling, her brother who passed. And then her husband did both pass away over a period of a couple of years. But what I saw in her, both when she lost her brother and when she lost my father, was the incredible, strong person that she was and her ability to be extremely resilient no matter what life threw her. And it threw her a lot.
00:10:12
Speaker
Though I'd be lying to say that she didn't have her challenging sad days because she did both when she lost her brother and of course losing my dad. She was always an inspiration to my brother and I in showing how despite life's challenges, you rise up and you find a way to move forward and still love the best life that you can. And
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, she was just tough, really tough, full of love and soul, but tough. She just, she amazed me really in both of those situations how she just marched on.
Humor and Spiritual Beliefs in Healing
00:10:52
Speaker
That's beautiful. Thank you. Sorry to make that parenthesis there, but I wanted to kind of just draw on that because again, that was one of the first ways of what you also having that example of how somebody grieves, even though it's now in your adult life, right? You're seeing your mom go through the loss of her, of her brother and then the loss of her husband. And again, I'm seeing that, you know, that, and then. Yeah. And both the cancer, my uncle had pancreatic cancer.
00:11:19
Speaker
And then my dad, you know, had mantle cell lymphoma, both, you know, rare and very well, pancreatic cancer, sadly, I think is more, more common. More common. Yeah, I know. We share that as well. We share that. Yeah. But I think mantle cell lymphoma. Yeah, is Yeah, that one I had not heard before. But both sadly, you know, lived my dad 18 years and 18 years to 18 months. And
00:11:43
Speaker
my uncle almost two years, which you know for pancreatic disease. It's a long time. Yes, that was a long time for that. And then the grieving process in both cases also starts the moment of diagnosis. So as a whole family, you guys have been grieving for quite a bit in that period of time too, with like your uncle's diagnosis to then his passing to then your dad's diagnosis to then his passing.
00:12:11
Speaker
So that process of grief was long to some extent. It was and you know that period of time it did feel like it was just like one bomb exploding in our family after another. It just you know as I said my mom was extremely tough but I do remember her just telling me after she went to that you know regular checkup at the doctor
00:12:35
Speaker
Cause we, she, my father and I all had the same internist and just saying, you know, well, Dr. Krieger, I lost my brother and now my husband, you know? So where, you know, basically where do I go from here?
00:12:51
Speaker
Wow, that is just a lot, a lot. Now, what were some of the ways that you all honored your dad's passing then? When he died, how did your honor his memory? What was the way that you did it as a family? Well, I would say the number one thing was through humor.
00:13:13
Speaker
because my father, and I'm looking at my parents' picture right now where I'm recording this, was incredibly funny, like cracking jokes all the time, like just really, really funny and very good at, when things were tough, ironically, still finding a way to smile, to laugh, to break, you know, the tension and,
00:13:42
Speaker
I remember my mom saying, well, if you don't laugh, you're going to cry. And of course, crying is not a problem. It's an important cathartic way. But so is laughing. So is laughing. Laughing changes your energy. And I think it affects your blood pressure. It affects the way that you look at things.
00:14:05
Speaker
I feel like right to the end of my dad's life and beyond in our toughest moments, my mom and I and my brother, we still found ways to laugh. And part of that was through memories of my dad, like just really funny things like
00:14:21
Speaker
He was a huge gadget guy. Like my mom would always say, you know, if one watch was good, your dad thought 20 was better. So, you know, we would go around the house sometimes and.
00:14:35
Speaker
she would just point out some army clock he got that after all his trying didn't even work, but he just thought it was the best find possible, because that's who he was. So we did a lot of that. A collector, kind of like a collector to some extent. Oh yeah, he was a pack rat. What were some of the things he liked to collect?
00:15:00
Speaker
Oh, he loves kitchen gadgets. He was a great cook. So he had, you know, not just one coffee maker, but he had like the espresso maker, the cappuccino maker, you know, the panini press, the quesadilla maker. I mean, even now as I'm going through, you know, their kitchen stuff, it's incredible. And I think my mom got rid of some of it. They have an incredible amount of, you would have thought he was like, you know, Wolfgang Puff or,
00:15:27
Speaker
god fieri or something maybe he thought he was yeah maybe he was we had a lot of those um
00:15:36
Speaker
you know, a lot of different, you know, pretty much anything you could think of, my dad had some version of it, you know, he loved like army type of watches. So he had that, he had a lot of like, you know, older kind of posts and pre-war stuff. You know, he loved to go to Costco and like pick up, you know, the latest gadget.
00:16:01
Speaker
Um, you know, so it was, it was something both that made him very lovable, but also like annoys my mom because it's like, yeah, you'd find a new gadget. How many watches can you, you know, could you know, ridiculous and neat. And my father, not so much. So she just was like, his name was Donnie Donald. She'd be like, Donnie, not for any, we don't need this stuff.
00:16:27
Speaker
Oh, man, wow. But I'm sure that some of those times, I'm sure she'd probably be grateful that he did have more than one of something, because if something did break, at least you knew you could find a second of that somewhere in the house. That's awesome. Now, what were some of the ways in which you grew up in terms of your spiritual background or beliefs around death?
00:16:52
Speaker
Well, I was raised Jewish, very, very reformed. But I did, at 13, have what he calls a bat mitzvah, which is considered in the Jewish religion a coming of age. And though I don't really think we talked that much about death until my uncle passed away, and at that point, you know, I was already an adult. You know, my parents just always felt like if you lived a good life, if you did your part,
00:17:22
Speaker
then, you know, wherever you went afterwards, you were rewarded. And, you know, in that type of thinking, they really just continue to raise my brother and I, you know, about paying it forward, about being a good person, about doing the best that you can. And in life, that's the only thing you can do is show up and do your best.
00:17:44
Speaker
So, you know, we didn't, as I said, we didn't really talk, even though it was Jewish, we didn't really talk that much about religious beliefs to my parents.
Family Involvement and Loss
00:17:54
Speaker
You didn't attend, growing up, you didn't attend synagogue or things like that. We did go and we did, I did do the bat mitzvah through the synagogue, which ironically is across the street from where I live now. But to me, if I was to think about the most important thing my parents would say in regards to Judaism was family.
00:18:12
Speaker
that like every occasion, whether it was Passover or Rosh Hashanah, which is the Jewish New Year, it was really for them about our family being together. That's huge in the Jewish community of what I've seen in a lot of my Jewish friends is that aspect of community and that cultural component of it. Every religion has certain things that become more cultural sometimes, right? Yes.
00:18:41
Speaker
And that aspect of family getting together, you know, for the Sabbath, is that correct on Saturday evenings? Is that right? Yeah, things like that. And so it's all about, you know, family and stuff. So that's, that's a beautiful thing to, to carry on.
00:19:03
Speaker
in your life. The family unit, and you guys were definitely really close. How far did your parents live from you? Did they also live in the same town? No. They moved from this town when I started NYU in college. They lived in Brookfield, Connecticut, which was about just 45 minutes from where I live now.
00:19:26
Speaker
They were close. Um, and they were here a lot, very active, um, parents and grandparents. Um, as I said, that if that theme has always run through my entire life for my family is being close to family. Yeah. And being there for each other and showing up for each other, no matter what, and being very tolerant.
00:19:50
Speaker
That's beautiful. And that's a beautiful legacy to leave behind to your kids. And then for them to continue is that aspect of family, of the family unit being so important. Yeah. And very vital right now with everything going on. Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Tolerance, respect for others and their point of view, even when you don't necessarily agree with them.
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah, so important. Now, when your mom then became a widow, when your dad passed away, then how often would you guys be able to see her? And how was that aspect of being able to be there for her and with her during that process of her own grief? And then we'll move to the second part of this grieving journey. Absolutely. I would say that I saw her more because
00:20:39
Speaker
prior, you know, right before, you know, prior to my dad's illness, she was obviously taking care of him and always with him. So, you know, we weren't able to see her that much. And then prior to my dad being sick, it was my father who was extremely involved coming down here because my mom was working full time. But when my dad died, we would see her a lot. She actually came here two days a week to help me with my kids like every week. And
00:21:06
Speaker
She spent a lot of time with us and a lot of time with my children, like helping me carpool them. And like, she made one night pizza night and one night fries night in McDonald's. Like- Wait, fries? Wait, fries night? And what else? Wait, no other, no- Does fries night? Well, we didn't just eat fries, Kendra. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Because if not, my kids would want to move over to your home. Yeah. If that's the case. If there's a fries night at your home. I tried to come up with something to like-
00:21:35
Speaker
help my husband and I like and make it special. So besides fries, but I think okay, okay. Thursday night was five night and she really took her, her grief and sadness and threw it into like spending more quality time with my children. And it was really beautiful because it was also at a time, especially my older kids were getting older.
00:22:03
Speaker
So they really could, you know, value that time with my mom. And you know, I knew it was like a good distraction. And it was a ginormous help to me because my dad was so helpful to me before he got sick. And then the 18 months that he was ill, I really was like a one man band. So it was really, really tough, but it really didn't, you know,
00:22:27
Speaker
I always say she could have really my mom and rightfully so while I did her grief and just stayed home and put her head in bed and put the covers over her face, but she really didn't do that very often and really threw herself into helping me and going back to what I just said earlier, which is to my parents, family was everything. And she adored my children as I know she did me and my brother.
Coping with Sudden Loss
00:22:52
Speaker
So she just put that energy towards us.
00:22:57
Speaker
What you just brought up was so interesting and it's something I have heard before in other grieving seminars or things like that, grief seminars regarding, of course, the diverse ways in which people grieve and the people that are doers, which it looks like your mom was a doer. Oh, she definitely was a doer. Yes.
00:23:19
Speaker
they thrive in doing. That's one of the ways that they still grieve, but by doing. For somebody that is a doer to all of a sudden be like, oh no, let me just stay home and
00:23:37
Speaker
cry all day under the covers is not their way of grieving. That was still her way of being able to still grieve even if she was doing something. Some people go back straight to work sometimes too and that actually even helps them. It's hard for them to just stop things completely.
00:23:59
Speaker
It's good to have those perspectives and to hear of the different ways people grieve so that it doesn't, especially in a family unit in which there's so different ways in which it could look like, right? It doesn't kind of catch somebody off guard as to, wait, why is she like busy, busy, busy? Maybe she's not really feeling the emotions. Like, you know what I mean? She was a doer. She was definitely like, if you wanted
00:24:29
Speaker
to get something done. Linda Warner was your girl. I mean, she just she didn't she didn't get around. And that's why there was always that dichotomy between her and my father that my father was a pack rat.
00:24:39
Speaker
bought every little gadget that was out there and she was very minimalist and like clean and neat and organized. Yeah. The contrast, the contrast. Yeah. And now that you're saying you're, you just, uh, right now that you said the word was that Linda Warner was. So, um, if you want to, um, explain now what, um, what happened then afterwards and you're in the, in last, last year.
00:25:10
Speaker
Well, I'll be totally frank, you know, just when I thought that our family had sustained enough for quite a while, or hopefully for a lifetime. Back in October, I was at home alone. My kids were in school when life was a little more normal. And I had received a text from one of my mom's neighbors that my mom had been in an accident.
00:25:35
Speaker
And they didn't have more information, but they gave me another neighbor to call. And it was also sent to my brother. And my brother, who's a school teacher, was in his classroom and he called the neighbor and eventually got led to one of the sergeants in the town of Brookville, Connecticut, where my mom lived. And relatively quickly, we had found out that my mother was hit by a car when she was walking and had passed away basically instantly.
00:26:05
Speaker
And, you know, my brother was told he was the one that had to tell me. And as I said, there was nobody here and it was instantaneous.
00:26:36
Speaker
I know that this being the most recent loss that you've had and how it happened is a very hard one to talk about. And right now when you mentioned of
00:26:54
Speaker
you being alone when you received the news. I know we briefly talked about that when the two of us talked and how it feels to be alone and receiving that news. And I could just feel the energy right in that moment in our conversation. Yeah, I think I explained to you that I remember exactly where it was in my kitchen when my brother called me and he simply just said, Mom is gone.
00:27:24
Speaker
And I do remember screaming and we live in a condominium complex. And I was like sure the whole neighborhood heard me. You know, and then you're just stunned. You just don't even, you don't even, you know, like kids were at school and the husband was at work in the city.
00:27:42
Speaker
You just, you don't even know what to do. Where to begin. Yeah. Like where to begin? Like, so where did you, did you call your husband at work at that moment? Of course the kids are at school. I was like, you're going to suddenly. I tried to reach my husband and I couldn't get ahold of him. I kept calling him and calling him and calling him. And it was strange cause he's usually pretty reachable. And then, um, at the time, one of my yoga teachers, uh, was just here and had left and I try Angela's name and I
00:28:11
Speaker
tried to get Angela and I couldn't get her so then I texted her and quickly told her what happened and then me the next thing I did was to call a family friend who's a hairdresser right in town who was super close to my mom at her shop and she ended up sending over her niece who I knew
00:28:29
Speaker
And who knew my mom, who was one of those people that was like really, really good in an emergency, Jessica. So Jessica just took control. Like she called the police, she called the hospital, like she, and then while she was doing that, Angela, thank God, came back with her two little doggies, you know, to be there for me. And then I kept calling my husband and it took a very long time to get in touch with him. It turned out after the fact he was walking like on his lunch hour,
00:28:58
Speaker
doing the right thing that's just not reachable. I think he had turned off his phone or something. So it took me a while to get in touch with him, but of course I eventually did and he came home, you know, as soon as he could being in the city.
00:29:11
Speaker
the fact that you reached out, that you knew you needed to have somebody with you and that the fact that then from there somebody called somebody else that was good with emergencies, like the whole tribe, you know, that whole aspect of it takes a village component and really you have that sense of community just with what you mentioned of all these different
00:29:35
Speaker
friends and and that that is just beautiful. I got chills just thinking of that support that you were able to reach out to. It's vital Kendra and I can tell you it's it's that that type of support over these last couple of years has meant everything to me and has been like how I've been able to survive because that yoga teacher Angela you know in addition to of course my wonderful family
00:30:05
Speaker
She was there when my dad was sick. She was on the phone with me when my dad was dying, when I had to go to the hospital to say goodbye to him. So it was really fitting in a way that I didn't know it, but she was with me doing yoga when my mom was killed, but we didn't know. We only put all the timelines together. We didn't know that at the time and she did come back and she stood there while I told every one of my kids what happened to. So that community has been vital.
00:30:30
Speaker
Now, how did that work that day in which, so how early in the day was that? And then by the time you picked up the kids, I'm sure they have different schedules of pickup times because of their ages. How did somebody else pick them up? Did you go pick them up? Did your husband go? How did that work out? I'm sorry. You know our brains as theater people. I need to see the movie in my head. So the questions I asked. If you remember any of it.
00:30:57
Speaker
around 10, 10 something in the morning. So it was very early, but I didn't find out until about 12 31 o'clock. And my older kids come home pretty early because smell school in the bus. Do they just come in this every everyone from the bus? Yeah. So my husband wasn't even home yet when my older kids came home. And that's why I was so grateful for Angela and Jessica was there as well. The one who really thought really quick on her feet.
00:31:25
Speaker
And we told the older kids first, and that was brutal.
00:31:33
Speaker
I can't, that's one of the things too, because you're navigating your own grief and then also having to find ways of guiding your children through theirs. And they've just gone through the passing of your dad, of their grandfather, and then somebody, this is not people that they would just see in the summers. Their grandparents were people that were part of their daily, weekly life to some extent.
00:32:02
Speaker
That's a huge, huge, huge. Oh, absolutely. And in fact, I can tell you that my mother was here the night before driving them around. So they had literally seen my mom the night before. So surreal. That is just like unreal. So I don't know. Oh, God. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Like the registering that you just saw them. What do you mean? Like in the process of especially because with the grandfather, they had seen the process of the illness, but with grandma.
00:32:31
Speaker
It was, it was like, we saw her the night before we went to school, we came home and she had passed away. I mean, like they, they knew something was up. They'll be older kids because, you know, they saw Angela's car. They saw Jessica's car. Um, my husband had reached out to my daughter. She was a dancer and she had danced that day and said something like he was coming home. And my daughter already had a feeling that something was bad because she didn't understand what my husband was coming home, but she didn't fully know. Um, my son Charlie was completely, you know,
00:33:00
Speaker
He had a beautiful relationship with my mom, as did my daughter. So, you know, I remember thinking in that moment, like, is it worst my receiving this news or is it worse for me to watch having to tell my children and their reaction? Like in that moment, I think I was stunned. So seeing their reactions was even more heartbreaking to me on that particular day. Yeah.
00:33:31
Speaker
And then, you know, not long after that, um, you know, my husband came home, thank God. And then the little ones came home and. You know, there being only first and second grade, um, you know, they understood to a degree and they were super close to my mom and they had seen her the night before, you know, they were very upset, but you know, age appropriately so, and not really, you know, I'd say the older one understood it a little more than the younger one, but it, you know, that was equally as painful to watch.
00:34:00
Speaker
Yes, no, that is just so much. Now what happened then after that, did your brother lived in Connecticut, in Long Island? So he was like two hours away. So, you know, again, it was really all kind of frantic, you know, I didn't know if I was going to have to go identify my mom, it seemed that way for a while. Then thankfully, they said I didn't have to do that.
00:34:27
Speaker
But then we left the kids with my friend Donna and Jessica and my husband and I, actually the older kids wanted to come with me. We had, again, something horrifically painful. I had to drive up to the police station by my mom's house and get her personal belongings that were on her at the time of the accident.
00:34:57
Speaker
And I can tell you that that was probably one of the most painful moments of this journey because the police station is by the rec department where every year the town of Brookfield would do an Easter egg hunt. And my parents and I would take our kids to that Easter egg hunt because though I was raised Jewish, I myself am Christian and I'm raising my children Christian. So my parents, as they were amazing, they embraced that.
00:35:26
Speaker
And so I, you know, I'm getting my mom's belongings as I'm coming out of this police station in total shock. And I just remember looking up at that field and that's when my husband saw me just lose it. Like I just, all I could see was the images of both of my wonderful parents on that field with my kids. And here I was walking out of the police station knowing that I had lost them both now. And it was brutal. You know, the police officer gave me her license, her cell phone,
00:35:55
Speaker
and the car key, which was beat to heck because she had it on in the accident. And then we drove towards her house because she had parked her car down at the bottom of this hill to then start walking. So we had to move her car back to her house. So my husband- And this is just the day after. This is the day after. The day it happened.
00:36:22
Speaker
Oh, the same day, the same day, the same day. Oh, that's so much. Yeah. Yeah. So my husband had to drive my mom's car up the hill while I stayed at her house with my older kids. And I can tell you also just walking into her house for the first time and just seeing her purse on the table, her clothes out that she was going to change into after her walk.
00:36:49
Speaker
You know, it was just, it brought, that also got me because I was, I looked at my husband and I was like, she thought she was going back. She thought she was taking a walk. And that's the way it should have been. I was just even imagining even dishes, like, you know, like breakfast dishes or laundry. She had laundry, her bed was ripped. She had a laundry basket in her room with her clothes that, you know, she hadn't had a chance to put away. And it was surreal,
Honoring Memories and Signs from the Beyond
00:37:14
Speaker
Kendra. It just, Oh gosh, Liza.
00:37:19
Speaker
And thank you for sharing this. And I know that it's hard to share, but at the same time, I know that you know, because you would have not accepted to be doing this podcast, that it's also part of that process of grieving, that the more we share, it also helps us in our own grieving process. And you know that you're also helping others as they're listening to this.
00:37:49
Speaker
absolutely in their own journey. So I just I'm just so grateful to you to share this as hard as it is and going through all these details. I appreciate it. And I will tell you, you know, as you had asked me about my mom, as I had said to you, she was one of the toughest women I ever met. And she went through so much losing her brother and her husband.
00:38:17
Speaker
That in those moments, especially those initial moments, I just kept saying I'm Linda Warner's daughter. And if she was that tough and that strong and that resilient, then that lies within me as well. And that's, that's the only thing you could say in those special experts. I just kept trying to muster up my mother.
00:38:38
Speaker
Love that. I love, you're like, I'm just going to channel her. I'm her daughter. If she could do it, I can do it. You're like, I can do it. I can do this. The what? I figured she's having my DNA, right? I'm a combination. Absolutely. So whatever Hutzpah's we would say in the Jewish religion she had, but I had as well.
00:39:00
Speaker
I love that. I love that. Now, what were some of the ways that then you pay, you know, honored than your, your mom's passing then after that with your dad, then it was a lot of humor. All of you guys, you know, talking about what are some of the ways that you and your brother and the kids
00:39:18
Speaker
remember your mom, aside from all these things of her strength and her resilience and what are some of the ways you honor her memory. And I know it's still fresh and with everything now, not being able to travel. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she was also very funny, too. So, you know, we would remember a lot of her expressions. And, you know, I think a lot about things she said to me, and there's
00:39:45
Speaker
something actually that I was telling Val the other day, which was she always said to me that life is for the living. And she said it to me at the one year anniversary or about of my dad's passing in the Jewish religion, you do something called an unveiling, which is when you put the footstone into the grave and
00:40:08
Speaker
My mom, you know, had said to me, like, you know, well, this is the time to me and my brother, like, you don't stop grieving. You never stop grieving, but this is the time daddy would want you to continue on with your life. And that's when she said life is for the living. And I kept telling myself that and telling that to my kids and my brother Ross, and I would talk about that.
00:40:31
Speaker
Mom always said, life is for the living. And so my brother and I in particular would talk a lot about things our mom had told us. He shared with me some conversations that they had had over the last two years about where she was with everything that I wasn't necessarily privy to at the time because I think she figured I had four kids. My brother has two. And he's a guy, I don't know. She told him more stuff at that time. She didn't want to overwhelm me.
00:41:00
Speaker
We would talk a lot about those things. And what I noticed with my children, particularly my, well, all of them actually, but particularly my older kids would talk about naturally memories of being with my mom, particularly because she drove them around so much. Like, oh, they called her Nanny. Nanny would take a saxophone and then we'd go to ice cream. Or Nanny said this about this house or this landmark or got lost here, you know?
00:41:26
Speaker
As we would go back and forth to her house, I would slowly bring home pictures of each kid with my mom and my dad or both. And everybody wanted to put up pictures. Because pictures is a big thing in our family. Because when you get to the point of people passing, what I've realized is the memories. The memories. That they can like DVDs or video home movies.
00:41:54
Speaker
You get to still hear their voice, pictures, you know, those are the things that are the most meaningful. And those are the things that stay with you forever.
00:42:04
Speaker
especially because they trigger them. So it's not the actual picture itself, but it's the fact that that picture is holding that memory of that moment. And so it triggers that memory back again, and so you can relive it. So yeah, that's so important. You're so right about the Facebook memories when they come up. Oh my gosh. And when they come up unexpectedly, how's that happened to you in the past year?
00:42:34
Speaker
In fact, recently, a memory came up. And when I looked at the date, it was three years ago, I realized that at that time, I had both of my parents, my dad was still alive, and my mom was still alive. And I remember saying to one of my healer friends, like, I can't believe that three, you know, like three years ago, I still had both of them. And it really highlighted to me how much I've been through our family has been through in the last couple of years.
00:43:02
Speaker
in a very short period of time. Changes in a twinkle of an eye, right? Like it's just like so quickly it can change. Absolutely. So quickly. Now in that in this process because you talk very eloquently and it's you can know through your words of how much faith you have.
00:43:27
Speaker
So what are some of those things that you hold onto to help you in this grieving process? Of course, in your mom's mantra, basically, of life is for the living, saying that to yourself and to the kids just kind of lets you, allows you to basically put one foot forward every day in your life, right? What other
00:43:48
Speaker
things do you hold on to, to allow you to help you in this grieving process? Well, of course, as I've already said, you know, the importance of family, you know, staying close with my brother and he has two children and my father's brother is still alive with his wife. You know, so continuing on as a family, you know, to the best of our
00:44:13
Speaker
ability. And then, you know, you and I talked about this too. For me personally, it goes deeper. In the last couple of years since I lost my dad, I've always been a person of faith. You know, as I sort of quickly said, I changed my religion, started NYU, so I have a lot of faith. But
00:44:33
Speaker
That faith also became very spiritual when I started the practice of yoga around the time my dad was very sick. And within that, and it's something that I've also shared with Val recently, is really that deep spiritual connection of knowing that though my parents are not here in the physical sense, they are still within me and they're still with me.
00:44:56
Speaker
I have seen some definite signs over these last couple of years that, you know, for my dad and then, you know, more recently with my mom, that it's like, they're still there, you know, like softly on my shoulder and my soul, like they're still there. They're, you know, I long and miss them in the physical sense, like crazy. And nothing, nothing takes the place of that. But that spiritual connection is there. And the more, you know, that I,
00:45:23
Speaker
kind of do the work spiritually, yoga, all the things I've tried to do, you know, dance singing to connect that has really helped me.
00:45:34
Speaker
know that though they've left the earth in the physical sense they're here and you know there's also like my mom always used to joke my fourth child which I think she was like in awe that I had a fourth child my little boy Thomas looks like my mom like in a boy in a as a boy and she would always say everybody says Thomas looks like me well Thomas I look in Thomas's eyes and I do see
Growth and Gratitude Amidst Grief
00:45:58
Speaker
my mom
00:45:58
Speaker
And one of my dad's friends just recently commented on Facebook on one of my posts and said, you have your dad's smile. And, you know, again, that warmed my heart because.
00:46:12
Speaker
that's still there, right? That's like a nod from my dad that he's still here through Thomas, right? My mom is still here. And then your smile, right? You said your dad's friend was saying that you have your dad's smile, yes? Yes, yes. And you know what, it brought me back actually to the day before actually my dad passed away. But when I went to say goodbye to him,
00:46:38
Speaker
It made me think about the nurse that I saw that day. She gave me like a really big hug and she said, you know, it's nice to meet Eliza. I'm so sorry that I'm meeting you under these circumstances. And she looked me in the face and she said, you look just like your father.
00:46:53
Speaker
So when this friend in the last couple of days said I had my dad smile, you know, it reminded me of that very difficult and cherished moment to hear that like in the last moments of his life that this nurse who took care of him at the end of his life noticed right away that I looked like my dad. So
00:47:10
Speaker
It's just an extension of knowing that that eternal love is still there. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And then just like you said, seeing your mom in Thomas's eyes and just a reminder that they're with you. And, and again, like if you've seen, you know, felt or seen signs through these years that have just brought you comfort, of course, all that helps in that healing process and just makes you still feel connected to them.
00:47:39
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think I told you about the morning dose. I thought that I told you about that. No, no, no. Okay. You did tell me about the morning dose. Okay. No, and anyway, you didn't tell the audience. I know sometimes we forget. I'm like, who did I tell that? Did I tell you? You know, obviously with, um,
00:47:58
Speaker
you know, Mother's Day, Father's Day is coming up and my dad would have just had a birthday. I've been thinking so much and missing my parents. And one day my husband came in and he was like, you know, there's a nest that's forming outside our condo. And I was like, Oh, really? And he said, there are two birds that are in that nest. And he said, they look very unusual. And he looked them up. And he said, they're called morning doves.
00:48:22
Speaker
And, you know, morning, not morning in the morning, but morning. And he looked it up. And if you look it up, it's very much like a sign of people who've passed, of showing you they're still there, of strength, of love. And I was like, it's my parents. People may think I'm crazy, but it's my parents. It's my parents like giving me a nod, telling me that they are still there, that they are still present with our family, with our kids.
00:48:49
Speaker
They're just showing up a different way. Yeah, it's just signs of in nature that just make you feel connected in that moment, whether it's that we want to interpret it that way, or it is them giving us those little messages. I am truly a believer in that, how much nature plays a part in our healing.
00:49:11
Speaker
as well and in our grieving, you know, journey and our morning journey in the morning, like the morning doves. You just have to be open to it, you know, because I always think like in my life, they've probably been signs, but if I wasn't paying attention, I missed it.
00:49:27
Speaker
Yeah, we have to be open. Now, what are some of the things that you feel that have been the most impactful in your growth? Or what are some of the ways in which you've grown in this past year? Or let's include the couple of years, too. I guess it would be three years, including from your uncle's passing to then your dad's. Well, while you're at my uncle, but for my father, yes, it would
00:49:54
Speaker
or your dad from your dad. Okay. So in these years, how what is and what are things that you actually feel grateful for in this process? As hard as it's been? Yeah, you know, it's so interesting, because initially, when I saw grief and gratitude, I was like, how do you put those two together? Like, how can you have both? But as time has gone on, I've realized that
00:50:23
Speaker
The more you loved a person when they passed, the bigger the grief and the bigger the grief and the bigger the love, the bigger the gratitude is because, you know, it's, it's almost impossible for me to think about my wonderful parents within my grief and my sorrow of missing them and not feel gratitude because they were amazing. I literally could not have asked for better parents who showed up for me, who nurtured me.
00:50:52
Speaker
who were there for me every step of the way, who taught my brother and I what we needed to know, that did good in the world, that left people better than when they left them. In all aspects of their lives, both of them are really what I would call people who paid it forward. And in knowing that, I do feel even in all this sorrow and grief and difficult, difficult challenges that myself and my family have had over the last couple of years, I do have gratitude because not everybody
00:51:21
Speaker
had a Linda and Don Warner in their life, who was their parent, who loved them, who did. My father equally was amazing. He did everything for me, for my kids, for everybody. He just was a, what people would say, your dad was just a really good guy. And my mom too, you know, she talked about smile. She had a beautiful smile. And, you know, it's through this process, honestly, that I feel that I have grown the most as a human being, you know, all of this grief has brought me to the practice of yoga.
00:51:51
Speaker
And yoga has taught me so much about myself and about life and a lot of these healing arts like Reiki. I love Reiki. In fact, I got certified for a couple levels of Reiki so I could help others and myself with it. But I really feel in my soul that a lot of the things that have gone on with me internally within my own life would not have necessarily happened if these tragedies hadn't happened to me. And those are the moments where you grow. For somebody else, it may not be losing somebody,
00:52:19
Speaker
But when things are challenging, and that's another thing my parents taught me. Basically, when things are tough, that's when you grow. If it's not tough, you don't grow. If it stays stagnant, if everything's hunky-dory and wonderful, there is no growth. And without growth, you're really not going to be happy, and you're not going to develop as a person, and you're not going to be able to be a contributing member of society and help other people.
00:52:47
Speaker
You know, it's just like we've been gratitude, you know, that they do go hand in hand. They're so different. So are these experiences, you know, coming out of those experiences, realizing that I have grown so much as a person, you know, probably more in the last three years than I did a lot of the years of my adult life.
00:53:08
Speaker
I tell you, Kondra, I often think to myself, I hope my parents are seeing this because they did a really good job. Well, that's the thing, you have to be proud of you, you. You know what I mean? It's like, yes, you're like, you're hoping we're always kind of seeking as a child. Like, I hope my parents are proud of me. You know what I mean? I hope they're proud of whom
00:53:30
Speaker
who I've become because at the same time... You and I are both parents, right? So I feel like we could do it on the other side too, which is like parents. Yes, I absolutely believe that. We want our children, right? I want to speak for you, but I'm assuming you want your children to grow up and be happy and healthy and give citizens. Yes, members of society, yes, and paying it forward. And like what you just said, the fact that you decided to
00:53:54
Speaker
Choose to share the story here as a way of paying it forward, just like what they taught you. And we started this podcast talking about that. It's huge. You're already following their legacy because legacy is all about what we've learned and what continues to carry on. And then you teaching your kids also how to live their lives. And as an example of, you know, by you being you, right, and following
00:54:22
Speaker
all these learnings that you've had through your grief process, and then the person you're becoming paying it forward, that creates a ripple effect on how your children will be, and therefore, and they're on. So that legacy lives on. So your parents' legacy keeps on going. Yeah, and absolutely. And it's tested my kids. As you've said, they've had a lot of hits recently, too.
00:54:45
Speaker
I feel like these ups and downs in life definitely forever change you and test you as an individual. But ultimately, if you let yourself evolve and learn from the experiences and get support where you need it, because we all need it, you can't but not grow.
00:55:02
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's back again, even how we started this conversation. We talked about the difficult times we're experiencing in the world. My dad would say,
00:55:18
Speaker
Darn it. What is that? That kind of a little like old expression like that. How could we not grow from this as a humanity too? It's like when you go through hard things, you have to grow. If you're not, then it really went for a waste. All that hardship was a waste. Yeah. You don't ever want to think and it doesn't have to always be as difficult as what I've been through with losing parents and you've been through
00:55:46
Speaker
But if any life challenge, you can either, like I said, go against it and not grow from it, not do good from it, not change, not evolve, or you can say, this is difficult, this is terrible at times, this is painful, but man, I'm gonna use this to grow. I'm gonna use this to do better. I'm gonna use this to help other people.
Podcast Reflections and Gratitude
00:56:06
Speaker
So when they're sitting, if they're sitting where I am, maybe I'll say something or do something that will potentially change the course of their experience.
00:56:16
Speaker
Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Thank you so much, Liza. Thank you. This was just so beautiful. Getting to know you because of this, I would not know you had it not been for this podcast because this podcast did connect us. Absolutely. Had you not listened to it of the interview of Val and you would have not reached out and now we're connected.
00:56:43
Speaker
Yeah, and here we are connected through this and now it's again a ripple effect of change and I appreciate you so much and the time and you sharing so many pieces of information. I was actually like taking notes of some of these little, you know, life is for the living. You don't think I'm like, wow, this is a good one.
00:57:06
Speaker
Honors my parents and honors my mom, you know who said that to me when my dad passed and that would be like the one other thing I would say is having seen my mom go through that grieving process and having that been be so recent and then losing her.
00:57:22
Speaker
It was able to look at how she handled it and try to emulate it, you know, try to be her daughter, not put pressure on myself, but to know how she handled it. She did move forward. She did tell herself life is for the living. She did get up every day and just do the best she could and continue to contribute despite, you know, great loss and tragedy.
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah, you learn from example. She really taught you by example. So that is beautiful. They both did, yes. Thank you so much again, Liza. Thank you, Kendra. This is such a pleasure, and I'm honored to do this for you. Thank you so much. Thank you again. No problem. Take good care.
00:58:07
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:58:36
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.