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57. Helping Others Rise and Heal- With Jenn Hepton
74 Plays4 years ago
Jennifer Hepton is a Conscious Life & Parenting Coach who works with women in their motherhood journey to move from a place of conditioning and overwhelm to mindfulness and consciousness. She is a pregnancy loss and grief awareness educator and supports women that have experienced infertility, pregnancy loss, pregnancy and parenting after loss and trauma.
Jenn uses her knowledge and training of trauma, neuroscience, neurobiology and mindfulness to support women in their healing so that they can reconnect to their inner healer, wisdom and voice. She is a certified conscious parenting coach with Dr. Shefali and supports families to move away from the
failed traditional paradigm of parenting to find ease, connection and joy.
Contact Jennifer Hepton http:// www.aconsciousmotherhood.com
Conscious parenting: https://www.instagram.com/aconsciousmotherhood/?hl=en
Pregnancy Loss Support: https://www.instagram.com/a_conscious_motherhood/?hl=en
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Music: http://www.rinaldisound.com
Logo: http://www.pamelawinningham.com
Production: Carlos Andres Londono
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You know, when we go through the trenches and the struggle and the grief, you move into this beautiful power and you recognize that power that you have and it is a journey and it takes time, but then therefore you can hold space for other women. And I really think that women holding space for other women are women
00:00:27
Speaker
you know, holding the fire or helping other women rise and heal is just the most beautiful experience ever. And it's going to save the world. Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:50
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:06
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:27
Speaker
Hello, and thank you so much for joining our podcast today.
Meet Jennifer Hepton
00:01:32
Speaker
Today, I'll be chatting with Jennifer Hepton. Jennifer, hello. Hello.
00:01:39
Speaker
And I'll be calling you Jen, as we already said, because Jennifer sounds like I'm your mom scolding you or your parents. Like, you're in trouble. Very serious. Very serious business. And it's Jennifer. Yeah, exactly. That's how I would feel when they would use my middle name, Kendra. And my middle name is Leah. And so when my parents would say Kendra Leah, you know, Kendra Leah. And plus in Spanish accent, it'd be like Kendra Leah. And then I knew I was in trouble. Yeah.
00:02:07
Speaker
Hide, hide. Yeah, exactly. So happy to have you, Jen. So I have here a little bit of your bio, but let's go over it. You can share a little bit yourself. So tell us a little bit about you, what you do, and then we'll kind of dive into some of the grief topics that we'll be talking about.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, sounds great. So yeah, so honored to be holding space with you and supporting you and normalizing this discussion. I think it's so incredibly important. So I am a conscious parenting coach, and I'm parenting after
Jennifer's Personal Journey
00:02:44
Speaker
loss. I'm also a pregnancy loss awareness advocate, writer, and speaker. And my kind of mission
00:02:55
Speaker
Or my purpose is to really normalize the discussion of pregnancy loss and pregnancy loss trauma and grief. And with my conscious parenting, I hold space for women in their healing, in their healing of grief, healing of generational trauma, emotional wounds,
00:03:22
Speaker
so that they can break the cycle and parent from a place of consciousness and mindfulness and really change their lives and the lives of their children because after 11 years of infertility and loss and grief
00:03:38
Speaker
now finally parenting my wonderful beautiful son I found myself with a lot of triggers from my grief from my childhood and I really wanted to create a life for myself and for him that wasn't about
00:03:58
Speaker
trauma that was about love and compassion and mindfulness. So that's what I'm doing right now and I'm currently living in Seattle, Washington, but you and I were talking about moving to the sunshine. So that might be in my near future.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, we were talking because some of the places you mentioned I've lived in and I've also lived in Seattle. So I'm like, well, if you want it more like that, then move here. If you want more like this, move here. Just kind of, yeah, a little more sunshine. And we were just talking before we started recording, your husband's from the UK. So just quickly, just let's talk about
Marriage and Career Transitions
00:04:38
Speaker
that. How did you guys meet then? He's from the UK. You live in Seattle and you are from, you are Canadian?
00:04:45
Speaker
Yes, I know, right? Tell us how you guys met and then let's go into the journey of your pregnancies and then your loss as well.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's a funny story how we met. So I used to be a school teacher, a primary school teacher. And I was teaching in Vancouver, Canada, where I was born and raised. And I wanted to move to the UK. I wanted to teach in the UK. I had a few friends wanting to move to the UK. So we went to a job fair. And I was interviewed by my now husband, who used to be a recruiter for teachers.
00:05:28
Speaker
And so he interviewed me, and a lot of people joke that he interviewed me for a wife position, but I was just like, yeah. It was a teaching position, everybody, it was a teaching position. And so I moved to the UK. How was his disguise? He was pretending to be a recruiter, but he wasn't on the line. Yeah, right.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, looking for a Canadian, Canadian partner. And so I moved to the UK, we started dating, and we literally got engaged four months after we started dating, we just knew. And then we got married a year after that, we lived in the UK, then we moved to Vancouver, Canada, lived there for a bit. And we went back and forth with his work from London and Vancouver,
00:06:16
Speaker
gosh, for about 10 years or so. So we're very fortunate that we were able to spend time with his family in the UK and my family in Canada. And then the last move was into Seattle, Washington. And when we moved here, I couldn't teach because, well,
00:06:36
Speaker
I had to go back to university and take more courses. And at this point, I had already done my master's. I was just like, I really don't want to go back to university. So I became a yoga teacher and taught yoga until we got pregnant with our daughter, Lowy. So that's kind of... Lowy, I like her name. How do you write her name? Oh, so her full name is Marlowe June Hepton, but
00:07:06
Speaker
In the UK, they love shortening names. They love shortening your first name. We do that in Spanish a lot. Either we shorten it or we make it still be like cutesy and sometimes the nickname ends up being even longer than your actual name, but it has that kind of endearing component. You know what I mean? But it might be even longer.
00:07:32
Speaker
So, Loey, then from like the low part of Marlowe? Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we, yeah, her name is Loey. And yeah, and she was a very pivotal part and reason why I am now, you know,
00:07:51
Speaker
talking about grief and sharing my motherhood journey because it's a way of keeping her legacy alive, but also a way of, I guess, a way for me to parent her through talking about her story, our story, and also sharing our story so that other people can heal through it as well.
Societal Expectations and Personal Choices
00:08:15
Speaker
Let me ask you there, because how long had you guys been married when you did get pregnant? Because you mentioned 10 years, are you guys back and forth and moving? So how far into your marriage or being together did you guys get pregnant with her? Yeah, so before we were lucky enough to get pregnant with her, we
00:08:39
Speaker
So my husband and I didn't get married until I was 31, and I'm from a Portuguese family. And so they literally thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't get married by the time I was 22. And so they were really, really worried. So by the time I was 31 and got married, they thought, oh my God, hallelujah. OK, so now you need to have children right now.
00:09:00
Speaker
but i was like okay well mom and dad i i i literally just met like we know this is it but can we get to know each other's wife and husband as partners and so my husband and i said you know let's get to know each other and then when we're 35 i don't know why 35 was the magic number but when we're 35 let's think about are we serious about children yes let's try so at 35
00:09:26
Speaker
went to the doctors, she's like, oh yeah, you better start thinking about getting pregnant now because you're 35, you're considered old, and you know, telling me about all this. The geriatric, that's a geriatric pregnancy from there on, right? You're going to have to get... Oh my gosh. Yep. Yeah, exactly. When I heard that, I was like, seriously. Oh my God.
00:09:51
Speaker
It's the culture. Do you think that further down the line, it will still be considered that way? Do you think that things will change in the perception of 35 being geriatric? Like, am I saying it correctly? Yeah, you are. Yeah, geriatric. Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, I seriously hope so. I seriously hope so because even before, and I'm so passionate about this, even before you even try to start to become pregnant, which for a lot of us is not easy to do, you're already considered old.
00:10:30
Speaker
traumatic. It's already like there's a label on it. So I really hope the medical system and society and, and the changes that definitely there's so many things that they do need to change. But anyways, that's one of them. I can relate slightly to that, even though like mine was just a little different. My first pregnancy was a miscarriage. And so I remember the what you when you were talking before, before we started, well, no,
00:10:55
Speaker
When we started recording regarding normalizing the aspect of either infertility or pregnancy loss and so forth of just Can you get can you hear the background noise? Sorry, but no garbage. Okay. Good. Good. Good. It doesn't it didn't pick it up. The garbage truck is going back so
00:11:11
Speaker
I felt like when I started saying that I had a miscarriage, then all of a sudden I worked with kids at that time. And so all these moms were like, oh no, yeah, my first pregnancy was also a miscarriage. I'm like, what? I'm like, how come I didn't know this? Here I was thinking I was the only person experiencing this and there was something wrong with me because nobody would,
00:11:38
Speaker
talk about it beforehand so anyhow so but yeah but sorry that was like a little side note there okay so then you started that you went at 35 she's like yes you need to get yourself get started because you're old yeah basically yeah exactly
00:11:55
Speaker
And I'm glad that you brought that up about the miscarriage as well because it's something that we all feel so lonely about or feel alone or misunderstood.
Fertility Challenges and Decisions
00:12:07
Speaker
And then all of a sudden people share a little bit more when you share. And yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up. But yeah, so yeah, the doctor, bless her. She's just like, you better start trying if you're going to start trying now, blah, blah, blah.
00:12:19
Speaker
So we said, okay, let's start trying. Um, this was when we were living in Canada, but literally two months after that, we moved back to the UK. And so of course we're like, naively, we were like, well, we'll try, you know, we'll just, you know what, we'll get off the pill. We'll just try. Everyone gets pregnant when they get off the pill. So we'll just, you know, whatever happens happens, right? Just very like, whatever. Well,
00:12:44
Speaker
two years goes by and we're like okay there's something everyone else is getting pregnant and we're not getting pregnant like there's something not there's something that we need to look into so we did all the tasks he got his sperm checked i got my eggs checked and the
00:13:03
Speaker
Came back and Saying that I had unexplained infertility Which again is just what is what does that mean? That's not helping me out at all and that I wasn't ovulating every month. So we're like, okay So we need a little bit of assistance here. That's fine. We can do that. We're very lucky This point when we've back to Vancouver and we did a detox I was saying of chility holistic specialist and then we found out we were pregnant and
00:13:32
Speaker
And I was like, oh my gosh, we're pregnant. It was the most amazing feeling. Sadly, it was very short-lived because I served a spot. And of course, I call my mom. And mom's like, oh, it's natural. It's like, OK, I'm not going to worry. But then it started to get worse. Went to the doctor. The doctor's like, OK, we need to send you for an ultrasound. Went for an ultrasound. Found out we were pregnant with twins. And I also had a subchronic hemorrhage.
00:14:01
Speaker
and this is without this is before you started fertility treatments this is before i started ivy yeah this is the first time i got pregnant yeah so the first time i got pregnant was 2013 and with twins i know i was like oh my gosh we're done we're done this is it
00:14:19
Speaker
But sadly, it was a very challenging pregnancy and my life was in danger and it was a pregnancy that we had to terminate after speaking to numerous, numerous specialists. And we made the decision that I wish no woman would have to make.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's a horrible experience and actually interesting enough I'm writing that part for my book that I'm writing a book about my my motherhood journey and I'm writing that that that part of it now and it's
00:14:59
Speaker
It's a grief that is so unexplainable because it's a decision that you have to make of something you've wanted for so so long and within that decision is grief. And then when you go through the termination there's the grief after that.
00:15:18
Speaker
Nobody talks about that grief. Nobody talks about the anxiety and the trauma that's around that grief. And I, at that time, was ill-equipped or unaware of how to deal with that and had no support around that. And so I was very ashamed and embarrassed. And so it was just a grief of my identity, a grief of, there's just so many layers of grief at that point.
00:15:48
Speaker
And I moved into what I now know, but didn't at the time was PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And I was very much traumatized by that event. But as a woman with doctors telling me,
00:16:06
Speaker
oh you can try again in six weeks you can try again don't worry that's you know why don't you try again i thought okay i on the prize we want to get pregnant so i completely disassociated from that which at that time was my coping mechanism and i and and i have compassion for myself around that for sure but um so we went on with remote we went on trying to get pregnant and that's when i went to the fertility clinic um and did rui i rvf
00:16:36
Speaker
and had recurring miscarriages, unsuccessful. And then we... Can I pause you for a second for that part? So I've only experienced one miscarriage and it was traumatic. How did you cope after having had to make the decision of
00:17:00
Speaker
Can I use the word terminating? What would be the right word for the first pregnancy with the twins? Would that be the correct terminating the pregnancy? Yeah, and thank you for asking for clarifying. Yeah, it's terminating for medical reasons. For medical reasons? Yeah. I know, because it's so hard to... I don't even know how to call it.
00:17:25
Speaker
So when you had to make that hard decision and then you go through all these other miscarriages and you had developed PTSD then from the first, then how were you coping every single time of these unsuccessful pregnancies that then ended up being miscarriages? How did you cope then? Yeah, great question. I didn't cope. Well, I coped, but I coped in the very
00:17:56
Speaker
generational way. And what I mean by that is I just took on what how my parents coped with life, I just buried my emotions. And I just got back on the horse and do what I had to do. And so instead of being in that grief, being in that trauma,
00:18:12
Speaker
and giving myself space just to be. I didn't allow myself to be. I just kept going, kept researching, kept talking to doctors. There was one summer that we got pregnant and I had three weddings to go to and we miscarried.
00:18:30
Speaker
and I had to cancel the weddings because at that point I think that was my fourth miscarriage and I said to my husband I can't do this anymore like I seriously cannot do this anymore and I had to
00:18:49
Speaker
say to my friends you know i love you but i just i i've had a miscarriage and i just i can't i can't go to your wedding i can't see people and i think at that point the layered and the complex trauma and and and the grief over and over and over again just took its toll on my body just completely
00:19:10
Speaker
collapsed at that point and that's when I said I'm not doing this anymore I'm stopping I need to stop so at that point we we didn't try for a year or so and then and then we moved to Seattle Washington and I think that was kind of like almost a new start somewhere different a new adventure
00:19:37
Speaker
And when we settled in, I said to my husband, I'm like, I think I want to get tested again. I think I need to see a new doctor. You know, I think it's going to be different this time. So we did and we did the tests and they were, this was the, I've seen so many doctors through this process. And this one brilliant doctor who funny enough is from the UK, Manchester, he did all the tests and he basically said to me,
00:20:05
Speaker
Jen, I am so sorry about all the grief and all the loss that you've experienced, but you can't use your own eggs. You will need to have an egg donor in order for this to be successful.
00:20:18
Speaker
Well, I'm so in awe of what you just said because it's very rare that you hear, well, I don't know, maybe it's just me, that you hear that empathetic component in a science environment. So true. You know what I mean? That bedside manner of that empathy component sometimes is not
00:20:38
Speaker
there because it's, you know, you're kind of going through the motions. You have a lot of patients. I say you, I don't know whoever, I'm not a patient. You know, they have a lot of patients. And so it's kind of like, okay, but what you just expressed the fact that he acknowledged your grief and then told you then the other spot. That's beautiful. And I'm sure that there's more than one doc. I'm just saying, I'm just kind of maybe doing a generalization that sometimes happens in
00:21:06
Speaker
a little bit of lack of empathy in certain circumstances. Okay, so you had that, and then what were you hearing? You can't use your eggs. What was the next step after that? Yeah. And you know, going back to your comment though, it's so true. There were so many
00:21:29
Speaker
Oh my gosh, there were so many medical doctors that I had seen through this journey that were not nice, that didn't hold safe space, that I did not like to be around, but I trusted them because they were the medical doctors. And it wasn't until this doctor
00:21:47
Speaker
said what he said that I actually could feel myself like exhaling like oh someone understands or I feel safe okay like okay this feels so much better like it's so important but so many people bypass that and it's
00:22:07
Speaker
not right. So yeah, so he spoke about the egg donor. And it was the second time someone brought it up, but he brought it up in a manner that was very considerate, and acknowledged my emotions around it. And so we went through the grief of not using, you know, my own egg or having any genetic connection,
Pregnancy and Loss of Lowy
00:22:30
Speaker
to like we want a healthy baby. We want a healthy, healthy baby that is number one. So we went through the egg donor process. We did IVF.
00:22:40
Speaker
And that's when I was pregnant with my daughter, Lowy. And again, it was a high-risk pregnancy. So I was bed rest, had to quit teaching yoga. But this- Was it still based on the same condition that you had for when you had the twins, when you were pregnant with the twins? Yeah, I had a subchronic hemorrhage again. And this time, I was on blood thinners.
00:23:07
Speaker
because I developed the blood clot when we had to terminate our twins. So there are a few health concerns but still had to go ahead to be pregnant. So yes, so it's kind of the same. So bed rest. But the one thing I decided with this pregnancy that was different from the twins pregnancy was that I was going to try to be as present and try to be
00:23:33
Speaker
in the moment as much as possible regardless of what the outcome might be and just try to spend as much time as I could with my daughter and so I did that as well as I could because being pregnant after loss is hard it's like holding your breath for nine months it's so hard it's so full of anxiety and triggers and so we do our best so yeah so I consciously made the decision to
00:24:01
Speaker
be as mindful and be as present as I could with Lowy and I'm so glad I did that because at 39 weeks and five days I had to go into hospital thinking I was going to deliver but sadly when I went in they couldn't find her heartbeat and so they pronounced her dead and I still had to deliver her and so
00:24:32
Speaker
I got the courage and the strength because that's what we do. And I delivered her on May 28, 2017, and she was pronounced dead at the same time. And the experience I had with our twins
00:24:58
Speaker
And an odd way really helped me with the time I had with her because I advocated for myself this time. And I said to the nurses who were absolutely amazing at the University of Washington Hospital, I'd like to spend some time with her. So they put us in a room away from everybody else. We got to spend three days with her. We took pictures. We just stayed with her. And we grieved in that way.
00:25:28
Speaker
And then when we said goodbye, we went home. And then that's when the deep, acute pain and grief really set in. When you go home without your baby, it's, you know, you, it's so traumatic and the grief is so, so, so deep and
00:25:55
Speaker
You know, my husband and I were able to see her, hold her, and my parents and my brother came down from Vancouver, Canada. But then, of course, when you're sharing that news with people, no one else met her. And so it's kind of, no one has memories with her. And so when you're sharing that grief or when people are reaching out, you really feel this sense of anger almost because
00:26:26
Speaker
You want people to understand that she existed and that we need to mourn this.
00:26:35
Speaker
not having her meet people or not having people meet her, but also the grief of like her future is no longer here, her going to school or even her first steps or, um, or anything. And so there's this just layers and layers and layers of grief because you don't really have memories to hold on to. Um,
00:27:03
Speaker
And so it's just, it was hard. I found that really, really, really, really hard.
00:27:12
Speaker
And the memories you do have are sad ones because when you write, because they're still traumatic as you, you could probably remember some of the memories of her kicking or, you know, in your, in your, in your belly. But then once she was born, it already, there's already that
00:27:33
Speaker
already grief the moment she was born because she wasn't. So yeah, that must be really hard not to have that. So how did you then
00:27:49
Speaker
What did you wrap yourself with in that time of grief? What helped you during that time and you and your husband? And by the way, what is your husband's name? Nick. Nick. What did you and Nick do during that time then to help you navigate your grief?
00:28:09
Speaker
um such a lovely question um i think we basically held on to each other very very tightly um we didn't know what every we didn't know what each moment would bring us and we didn't know what each day would bring us and
Coping with Grief
00:28:26
Speaker
um every first all any all firsts were very difficult like my first shower my first bath my first cup of tea um and we found it really really hard being in the house because we had bought this house while i was pregnant you know creating this home for her
00:28:47
Speaker
And now we were there without her. And so we'd walk past her nursery and see her crib. And I think what we did was we just really held space for each other. We also did see a grief therapist that specialized in, you know,
00:29:06
Speaker
pregnancy loss and we made sure that we both saw our own therapist which was extremely helpful and that's when I was diagnosed with PTSD and I was able to to you know with that awareness and with that knowledge I was able to really show myself a lot more compassion than I was showing myself understanding why my brain wasn't working
00:29:33
Speaker
why I was feeling so tired all the time you know the shock of it all so um you know the first three four months I don't even remember like as I'm you know writing this book I'm thinking my goodness would be interesting what I do remember but I I don't I just remember a lot of sleeping a lot of crying
00:29:58
Speaker
a lot of TV watching and it was a lot of just surviving as best as we could. I was scared to go out in public just in case I saw somebody, even though I need... Especially people that don't know, right? Exactly. Because if you went all the way to 39 weeks, you had a baby shower.
00:30:17
Speaker
You had those kind of events, you had publicly posted probably at that time you had Facebook or social media, you probably had posted the announcements of pregnancy, those kinds of things. How far along in this pregnancy did you post? Because I'm assuming it might've changed a lot.
00:30:36
Speaker
based on your previous experiences. How far into this pregnancy with Lowy did you share you were pregnant? Oh my gosh. I love this question because when I was pregnant with the twins, I waited for the 12 week mark. I was like, I'm going to wait until 12 weeks to tell people.
00:30:51
Speaker
And then when we got to 12 weeks, we didn't even know if the pregnancy was viable. So there's a lot of people that didn't even know I was pregnant. So with Lowy, I made the conscious decision to be like, okay, I don't know where this is going to go or how this is going to turn out, but I'm going to celebrate every moment I have. So I told people the day I got pregnant, the day I did the transfer, I was telling people,
00:31:15
Speaker
And of course a lot of family members are like, you shouldn't be telling people, you shouldn't tell people, you never know what's going to happen. Like you're going to change it. Exactly. Exactly. So superstitious. And I was like, you know what, I don't think telling people is going to change anything, but what it will do is give me a support system if anything does happen. Yeah. So I agree. I told everybody at that point. Yeah. Early, early, early on.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yes, and so then you're here then not even wanting to go out because you might run into people then that might have not known the story and having to share that she had passed. What word do you like to use around her as well? Sorry, I asked these things because I'd like to be, do you like to say past, transition, died? What is a word that you like to refer?
00:32:04
Speaker
I love that because it's part of normalizing the discussion. So at first I was like, she passed, but she died. For me personally, and I know for everybody it's so different and it's part of our journey and it's part of what we can, it's part of our love affair with who we've lost or who has died. But for me, I move
00:32:32
Speaker
from the word death and transition. Now I move away from past. But I still say it because I grew up. Yeah. Others, right? And sometimes we say it because then you're saying it. So for you, it's not only reliving it and making it real every time you're sharing. You know, when they're saying, oh my gosh, you know, you run into somebody at the store. Oh, where's the baby?
00:32:57
Speaker
Then you're like, uh, and then you're having to say, she died. Not only are you experiencing grief again, but you're also presenting it to the person that you're sharing it to. And that's one of the things I realized even just with miscarriage was that I had to hold space for the person that was hearing it for the first time.
00:33:18
Speaker
You know what I mean? Even if I had been already dealing with the grief, did you feel that way as well as you were sharing your grief journey, you know, after Lois? Yeah, definitely. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because you're holding space for yourself and then you're sharing the news, so you're reliving it. And then you may be triggering something in that person.
00:33:49
Speaker
And then they feel uncomfortable and they don't know what to say and because society is like, you know pain discomfort grief We don't talk about that Hide it. Let's fix it fix it So then they start to get very uncomfortable and I really have to say it's okay to be uncomfortable Like it's an uncomfortable situation, but
Finding Hope through Surrogacy
00:34:07
Speaker
it's okay. It's like it's okay Because some people would be like, oh, maybe it's for the best. I was like Really
00:34:19
Speaker
I know. I know. Oh my gosh. You could probably add all that in your book. All the little things that were said that were like the cliche things that were like, oh, that was another step. Oh, another one. Yeah, I try not to remember them. Yeah. There were many. And I can understand because people are uncomfortable and they want to fix. They want you to feel better. So I get it. I get it. But at the same time, that's grief.
00:34:47
Speaker
it's still time it's so great you know i was having this conversation this weekend with a friend she was saying you know for those of us on the on the the one for those of us telling somebody condolences because it's really hard and we may say the wrong thing but so therefore
00:35:05
Speaker
at the same time, there should also be this very kind of understanding on the receiving end of somebody, you know, like, okay, let me put it this way, like, so somebody's telling me and they tell me the wrong thing. But the intention is that they
00:35:20
Speaker
The intention's there, right? They really just want to show their support, but they just said the wrong thing. Instead of me getting upset, again, holding space for that person too, because they are doing their best they can with the vocabulary they know around the topic of death and condolences and whatever comes around that area. Because again, since it's something we don't talk about very often, a lot of us are lacking
00:35:46
Speaker
the words we don't know what does it's like a new it's like a language that we do not know how to communicate oh my god a thousand percent a thousand percent that's why like you know you're doing the podcast and and and us sharing our stories and and talking i think is just so incredibly important because you're right people just don't have the language
00:36:08
Speaker
to talk about grief and death. And we all experience it, but it's when it happens, it's just like, oh, you know, people are speechless. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I know. And they try their best. They try their best. Yeah.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yes, so yeah so I guess we have it's what goes both ways right so we on the receiving end we have to be compassionate to for the person that's really trying their hardest to just be there for you and they may say the wrong thing, but just be.
00:36:39
Speaker
you know, understanding that they're doing their best with what they what they know. And the same for I still mess up. I even as much as grief I've experienced in my own life, I will still say the wrong thing. But my intention is always right. But the words may not. Yeah, the intention. We can't forget our intentions. Yeah.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yes. Okay. So I'm sorry for all these little side notes here, but they're all like little different important topics to talk about. So this whole blur, these three months of like, yeah, blurryness, I don't know fog. How did that fog start getting to be lifted after?
00:37:22
Speaker
And what did you do? Oh, hello. I can hear your dog. I have a dog too, but she's like, is there somebody at the door? Or is it just like? No, there's nobody at the door, but they probably need to. I mean, if you need to check anything. She's fine. She's a bit of a barker. Yeah, I've got two beagles. So one barks and one doesn't bark. So it's very interesting. So when did we see, when did we start? Gosh.
00:37:50
Speaker
I think it was probably when we decided to sell the house. We made the decision to sell the house and to move and rent an apartment. We didn't know
00:38:08
Speaker
what life was going to give us, we didn't know what we were going to do. And so, but we did know that we wanted to sell the house. So that kind of, I guess, gave me a reason or purpose, like, okay, I'm moving on, I'm doing something. So it was something very tangible that we were doing. And we sold the house very quickly. And we rented an apartment in downtown Bellevue, which is near Seattle.
00:38:32
Speaker
And we call it our grief den because we lived there for about a year. And I think that's when we started to really feel the lifting happening, the fog starting to disappear a little bit and we start to do more things. We start to go out for dinner and we started to go for hikes and just really, really slowly start to reintroduce different things.
00:38:59
Speaker
into our lives. We, you know, traveled. We went to London. We saw our friends in Singapore. So it was slowly, but I mean, still that first year or so was still really, really, really challenging.
00:39:14
Speaker
And then we thought, this can't be it. This cannot be the end of our journey. And so when we sold our house, we luckily financially put us in that position to look into surrogacy.
00:39:31
Speaker
And so we started looking into surrogacy and I think that also helped lift the fog even more. And I hope again, because you had some pain to purpose hope. And then when Lloyd died, I also
00:39:52
Speaker
you know promised her that i would share our story and so i became a life and grief coach and was held was holding space for other women who experienced infertility and pregnancy loss so again giving that purpose um and that space to for myself to heal and to also
00:40:14
Speaker
connect with other people as well, which is so important for our own personal healing. And so there was a few things that happened. And then when we were pregnant with our surrogate, then I started to move into that hope space a little bit more.
Parenting After Loss
00:40:33
Speaker
And
00:40:35
Speaker
How did you find my gosh, that could be a whole other conversation to just finding the right person to carry your child like that must be like a very interesting journey to very interesting. We had to use an egg donor again. And then we had to we spoke to three different surrogates. And we finally found our beautiful tummy mummy and she's
00:41:03
Speaker
Tell me mommy. Oh my gosh, this is the first time I can read this term. Oh, so beautiful. She's lovely. She's an absolute angel. I know Loewe brought us brought us together. And yeah, and then so we yeah, so I did. So still, you know,
00:41:24
Speaker
grieving always grieving but um but moving into that space of hope and then when our son when our son uh was born i was it that's his name milo what's your son's name
00:41:40
Speaker
My daughter is Mila. Oh, that's awesome.
Transformation through Conscious Parenting
00:41:44
Speaker
My daughter is just the A to the A, so my letter different. Yeah, that's so cool.
00:41:57
Speaker
That was pretty amazing. I first had a panic attack because it was my first time in a delivery room since Lowy's death. And that was how many months later or years? Two years.
00:42:16
Speaker
Yeah. But it was, it rewrote the experience for me. So being in the room and seeing him being born rewrote that experience for me. And I can, it's priceless, absolutely priceless. So he's 22 months now. And, you know, parenting after loss is what I'm in, what I'm doing right now. That's why I'm, I can't
00:42:42
Speaker
Yeah, and that's why I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's why I'm I'm I'm a conscious parenting coach because Whoo those Where do I start?
00:42:58
Speaker
I'll guide you here because you go take a breath for a second because you just, not only did you just share a lot, but you also share again, reliving these memories and emotions and everything that comes up. And a lot of times too, like in this podcast, sometimes we go into the journey of what happened itself in the grief. Sometimes we just go straight into the tools. It just depends on the conversation and on the person and how it goes.
00:43:28
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that and I don't know for some people it's healing to reshare because it's again kind of
00:43:40
Speaker
honoring what they've gone through and where they are now. I hope that that was that for you. Thank you once again for sharing that aspect of your journey. With the conscious parenting, how did you first off, how old was Milo when you decided to become a conscious parenting coach? Let's go. How about there? How about we go from there? That's great. Thank you very much.
00:44:12
Speaker
I did, I did. I was like, we took a couple of steps. And the deep breath began, you're like, wait, let me take a breath for the next, the next wind. I know, it's like motherhood, yeah, it's motherhood journey, it's complex. So as soon as he was born, I knew that something was not right. My mental health was not
00:44:40
Speaker
good. I was getting re-traumatized. I had didn't, I mean, all new moms, right? Exhaustion. And I wasn't feeling as close to him as I wanted to feel. And I started to really feel quite depressed because this is something I had worked or dreamt about for so long. And then he's finally here. And I'm
00:45:07
Speaker
having a very, very challenging time. And it was one night where I just spoke to Loi and I was like, Loi, I need your help. I need your guidance. There's something that's missing in my healing. There's something that I need. And then
00:45:26
Speaker
Dr. Shafali came up. Um, I think it was a book, The Conscious Parent. And I thought, Oh, what is this? And I bought it on audio and I'm like, Oh my God, this is exactly what's going on. My ego is being triggered. My past trauma is being triggered. And this beautiful little boy has no idea. He's just full of life and love. And he's just so beautiful. And I was just like, Oh, I don't want to taint him with my
00:45:56
Speaker
Crap So I just got started get curious I followed her on Instagram and then I started reading her books and then I saw that she had a coaching Institute and I looked into that a bit more and I was like, this is it I'm like I became a grief coach a life coach and NLP practitioner hypnosis practitioner a drama Trauma informed coach and I was like, this is it. This is it. This is the one thing I needed in my life. This is it so
00:46:26
Speaker
I signed up. I love it because because you become it's like what what better way of learning the areas you're going through yourself than just learning to be someone that helps somebody else navigate it because so all these different parts of your life you're like no not only am I gonna
00:46:46
Speaker
have a grief coach. I'm going to be a grief coach. Not only am I going to have a conscious parenting coach tell me what, you know, how I should, no, I'm going to become one. So there's the teacher in you, the teacher in you came back. Thanks for recognizing that. Yeah, I totally, yeah, I didn't. Yeah, it's true. I just, I have like the constant educator, the constant learner.
00:47:09
Speaker
And so I took her course and it changed my life. It was hard. It was like PhD level, which I wouldn't expect anything less from Dr. Shafali, but she just helped me so much and she helped such beautiful space for healing and transformation and
00:47:31
Speaker
It changed my life, changed my relationship with my son, changed my relationship with my husband and relationship with my parents. And I was able to create better boundaries for myself. I was understanding my triggers, my trauma.
00:47:46
Speaker
how to hold space for him, how to take care of myself, which is like super important. And so that that was really kind of like, okay, this is it, this is this is this, it's all kind of come together. And it's helped me in such, in such an amazing way. And I love and I love helping other women through this too, because when you
00:48:11
Speaker
hold space and you see them create the awareness and the consciousness around that and implement it and therefore change their lives and their children's lives. It's like this is what my group journey has done for me. It's given me that sense of empowerment, that sense of
00:48:41
Speaker
You know, when we go through the trenches and the struggle and the grief, you move into this beautiful power and you recognize that power that you have. And it is a journey and it takes time, but then therefore you can hold space for other women. And I really think that women holding space for other women or women
00:49:07
Speaker
you know, holding the fire or helping other women rise and heal is just the most beautiful experience ever. And it's going to save the world. So I'm just so honored that I'm able to do that. And it's because of the grief. It's because of my daughter and her incredibly strong spirit wherever she is. So yeah.
Jennifer's Memoir and Community Support
00:49:36
Speaker
That's so beautiful. It's like acknowledging the fact that going through the trenches is what got you to where you are, and honoring that journey, because had you not gone through it, you wouldn't be who you are right now, and being able to mentor others and keep
00:49:58
Speaker
educating others that will be going through similar journeys as you have been gone through. So that is wonderful. Now tell us a little then now as we wrap up our conversation, unless there's something else I have not asked, please make sure to jump in and say if there's something I have not asked and that you want to finish with any thoughts. But I do want you to talk a lot about your book and what
00:50:25
Speaker
kind of made you kind of feel that this was the next level now of your journey to now write this book and where this process is now of your writing. Yeah, thank you. So when Louis died, I think it was maybe six months afterwards,
00:50:49
Speaker
I was having these very vivid dreams of writing a book. And I'm 100% it's her by giving me this much to write our story to write our story. But I had to push it aside because I just didn't feel ready. And I just didn't. Yeah, I was scared. I was just scared to write it. And then with Milo and now conscious parenting,
00:51:21
Speaker
I don't know if it's an urge or force or power to that supporting me and holding space for me to write this. The more women I've spoken to, the more women I've coached, the more women that I share my story with and they share their story with, I just know that in story, we heal and in that connection, we heal and when I
00:51:38
Speaker
I feel this incredible
00:51:49
Speaker
created a conscious motherhood, I really felt that the story of motherhood needs to be told in all its diversity and its all its complexities and to be normalized and
00:52:12
Speaker
And I also wanted to share my love story with my twins and with Loewy and also with my son Milo and hold space for women to heal.
00:52:25
Speaker
and to know that they're not alone. And when I do share my story, it's very complex and very layered, but there's always this common thread of hope, of resilience. And that's something I definitely want to share. So it's a memoir
00:52:48
Speaker
where I share, you know, my being pregnant with my twins, the infertility, the pregnancy after loss, stillbirth, grief, but also how I moved from the conditioning and the wounds and the trauma into more of finding freedom and joy and
00:53:17
Speaker
mindfulness as well. So it's one of those things where I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And then eventually I was like, okay, I can't push this nudge. It's so strong. Like I have to write it now. Yeah. Have to do it. Yeah. If not, you won't sleep at night. If not, you won't. Totally. Oh my God. That's so funny. I woke up at five this morning going, I got to write something down. I need, I have got, I've got something came into my mind. I've got to write it down.
00:53:42
Speaker
Wouldn't it be awesome that like as we were dreaming and all the thoughts or like even when we're in the shower that somehow like we had like something plugged into our head that could just bring all these thoughts down and ideas because sometimes then you wake up and you're like, wait, I lost it. I know. Stay down on the ground.
00:54:01
Speaker
I know, I know, I know. It's like you got a download and you're like, oh, and then you think, okay, you know what? I'm going to remember that when I wake up. And then when you wake up, you're like, it's gone. So tell us more about a Conscious Motherhood website and other services you offer as well, all the different coaching and so forth. And I'll make sure to include your website and any other links you want me to share in the show notes. So please share that with the listeners, please.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, of course. I'd love to. So A Conscious Motherhood is a community. So we have a website, I have a website that shares my blogs, my one-to-one coaching, and I will be
00:54:44
Speaker
hosting a group coaching program in the spring, which I'm really looking forward to around conscious parenting. And I also have a online community on Teachable, which has courses or online experiences, I like to call them, to support women who have experienced baby loss and grief through pregnancy loss.
00:55:10
Speaker
And I have a few free courses on there and other courses that are, I don't charge a lot for my courses because I want as many people to, I want to help as many people as I can. And then of course I've got two Instagram accounts. I've got the Instagram account for conscious parenting.
00:55:30
Speaker
Um, and then I have a conscious motherhood Instagram account for holding space for those who are experiencing infertility and pregnancy loss. Um, and I know those will be in the show notes. So that's, that's about it right now. And then, um, I'm hoping to finish my book this, I'm hoping to finish my book, uh, before Lowy's birthday in May.
00:55:58
Speaker
And then we'll see where it takes us if I'll get published or self-publish the book, but working towards all that. It's very exciting. Oh, that's wonderful. So, and scary, of course. Everything's scary. I always tell my kids to be exciting, exciting, excitement, and like,
00:56:19
Speaker
Scared or like anxiety like they're just so similar those two emotions, you know, they really are very totally Just really I just say to say you're excited and like I tell them like I'm nervous and I'm like, no, no No, you're not nervous. You're just excited. Like just like it's the same things happening in your body as when you're yeah So then
00:56:45
Speaker
She would be turning four then four. Well, you see, it's like, yeah, another birth here with her story now in this book. And as you said, and you've mentioned her so much in this podcast and in this conversation, she's been by your side throughout all this journey and helping you and inspiring you to help others as well.
00:57:12
Speaker
Thank you for sharing your story and her story and Milo's story and the twin story and also honoring Nick as well in this journey. So thank you once again.
00:57:26
Speaker
Well, thank you. Thank you for allowing me to share my story. And it was so, you know, grief is like we said in the beginning, right? It can be such a heavy topic. But when we can have conversations where we can like laugh once in a while or joke once in a while, it really is
00:57:45
Speaker
honoring our journey and where we are too. And then hopefully we'll help other people as well. So I thank you very much for holding straight. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you.
00:58:02
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:58:30
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.