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Good Will Bunting - Episode 13
54 Plays9 months ago
Me and one of my best friends talk life for 2 hours, Oscar names his first born son
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:02
Wes MacMillan
It also always freezes in the beginning.
00:00:07
Wes MacMillan
What's going on, everybody? And welcome back to Philosophony, the podcast where we have a good time exploring life's big questions. Today's guest is Oscar Bunting. How's it going, Oscar?
00:00:19
Oscar
I'm doing well. How are you?
00:00:22
Wes MacMillan
I'm glad to hear. um Oscar is one of my best friends. he's We're both from Massachusetts. We worked at a camp together.
Expectations and Happiness
00:00:31
Wes MacMillan
but
00:00:34
Wes MacMillan
Kind of the reason why I think he's going to be a good guest on the pod is we often like text almost daily on things like sometimes funny, but mostly just deep ass questions, which is kind of the whole theme of the pod.
00:00:47
Wes MacMillan
And the last thing that we were talking about is like expectations and like chasing perfection and just perfectionism and how that can affect your life.
00:00:59
Wes MacMillan
Any thoughts, Skr?
00:01:02
Oscar
um Yeah, I feel like... a you know, the expectations that you so set for yourself, um, on a daily basis and just like long-term, um, can have a large, uh, impact on like, you know, whether you're, uh, happy or unhappy because the reality that you experience, you, uh,
00:01:26
Oscar
you set yourself up for a situation where you base, um, you know, your feelings regarding the ah reality that comes in based off these expectations and based off past experience that, you know, like made you feel a certain way. Um, and yeah, whereas we would, we would all likely be better off, um, just, you know, experiencing reality, um, as it comes without any resistance.
00:01:57
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. And it's kind of one of those things, one of many where like, I know it's true in my head. And then one, I forget about it. And then two, it's just like, so much of it is unconscious.
00:02:08
Wes MacMillan
Like I'll go to get ice cream. i'm like, this is going to be the best fucking ice cream of my life. And then it's like, it's probably like an eight out of 10, but even that's a disappointment when you hype it up in your head.
00:02:15
Oscar
the
00:02:19
Oscar
Yeah, absolutely. um Yeah, expectations, man. So it's hard, though. It's it's a lot yeah easier said than done, what I would say.
Effects of Beverages on Well-being
00:02:37
Oscar
ah yeah.
00:02:37
Wes MacMillan
You still drink green tea?
00:02:38
Wes MacMillan
This is my first cup in like couple months.
00:02:43
Oscar
um Here and there. Here and there. I like when it's... um Sometimes I'll get iced green tea, and that is far. They serve it at some of the cafes here.
00:02:55
Oscar
um
00:02:55
Wes MacMillan
Okay.
00:02:55
Oscar
don't know. I just like the... ah but less Like having less caffeine than a coffee. Coffee is so much caffeine that it has a genuine like effect on my day.
00:03:08
Oscar
And it's usually not the greatest effect. But like...
00:03:13
Wes MacMillan
I used to drink it when I went to class and it would be like for so long I was like this is this is good for me but then I one day I realized like I just I drink it and I just get like so squirmy and I'm like I'm in class trying to pay attention and it makes it like million times harder because I'm just like full of energy and I just want to like get that
00:03:31
Oscar
It sucked. I don't know what percentage of green tea, kef like caffeine. It feels like it has like half, maybe like a third of the caffeine. And it's like, it's a great amount.
00:03:44
Oscar
But also like, don't know. What was the other tea you were talking about? Um, That helps with like, uh, fight first flight.
00:03:54
Wes MacMillan
yeah the i had this like ashwagandha tulsi tea both of those are like higher like herbs they used in like i don't know native america and like india for like thousands of years and they're kind of like furious like
00:04:07
Oscar
Hmm.
00:04:12
Wes MacMillan
i don't want i don't know if you call them drugs but it's like
00:04:18
Wes MacMillan
Like a lot of teas are like green tea, chamomile, and these are like more like serious herbs that really change who you are. So it's kind of wild to, they just like sell them at like CVS.
00:04:25
Oscar
Interesting.
00:04:30
Wes MacMillan
But yeah, I, my fight or flight used to be like off the charts.
00:04:30
Oscar
Yeah.
00:04:33
Wes MacMillan
Like I walk into a room and like every time it was like, boom, boom, boom, boomm boom boom. And like dry mouth, shaky hands. But I drank it for like, I don't even know, less than three weeks and that's just gone.
00:04:47
Wes MacMillan
Which is crazy out of like a tea.
00:04:50
Oscar
You stop drinking or you still drink it?
00:04:53
Wes MacMillan
I kind of stopped because I'm like, it's gone.
00:04:56
Oscar
It did its, it's, did its job.
00:04:59
Wes MacMillan
Yes, and but I was a little concerned on like how well it did its job.
00:05:05
Oscar
Really?
00:05:06
Wes MacMillan
Cause I've tried every trick in the book to try to get the fight or flight to chill. And I drank that for like a week and it's gone.
00:05:11
Oscar
Yeah.
Fight, Flight, or Freeze Responses
00:05:15
Wes MacMillan
And it's not like a medication from a doctor.
00:05:16
Oscar
So if.
00:05:18
Wes MacMillan
It's just something I got at the store. And that's why it's a little.
00:05:23
Oscar
You picked it up at a store. Or like Amazon.
00:05:27
Wes MacMillan
Like a whole.
00:05:27
Oscar
I think I'm going invest in this.
00:05:30
Wes MacMillan
You should, i mean, it's.
00:05:30
Oscar
But is it to the point where like, what if like a bank robbery went down with that? You think you would just be chilling? And you witness it
00:05:40
Wes MacMillan
That's also why I'm like, maybe I need a little fight or flight in me.
00:05:46
Wes MacMillan
Like I get in a car.
00:05:46
Oscar
it? But I feel like mine is off the charts.
00:05:47
Wes MacMillan
tonight But the stress And I saw a video of this and this guy, he's kind of like, he's skiing and an avalanche is like starting to happen.
00:06:01
Wes MacMillan
And like, that's the only time the fight or flight is actually supposed to happen. But now it's like, you talk to a girl, you think is kind of cute. And it's like,
00:06:12
Oscar
Yeah, but even then, what is the purpose when you're in the avalanche? like can you I don't know, like I'm not a skier, but can you escape it?
00:06:20
Wes MacMillan
It is like fight or flight.
00:06:21
Oscar
or is it just telling you that you're screwed?
00:06:24
Wes MacMillan
And it's more like, no, just not telling you you're screwed. It's like you see a cheetah and it's literally like scientifically your body is like, we're about to fucking die. Like, and it it's like legit putting your body in like sport mode.
00:06:42
Wes MacMillan
It's like, we're not even going to waste it.
00:06:43
Oscar
You become a champion.
00:06:46
Wes MacMillan
You're not even going to waste energy on like digestion, saliva. You're literally in like, you start to like shake because it's like the adrenaline just goes to like a hundred.
00:06:58
Oscar
But isn't the other like half of the deal if you like, you know, saw a lion come out of the woods at you, like you, would is there a chance you just freeze?
00:07:09
Oscar
Is that part of fight or flight?
00:07:11
Oscar
Or you, you always like take action.
00:07:11
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:07:14
Wes MacMillan
No, it's fight, flight, freeze.
00:07:15
Oscar
Would you fight the lion? Is that...
00:07:18
Wes MacMillan
Well, it's situational. Well, it's like, if, if you can try to run, i'd probably rather try to out run, but like, you're also not out running a lion.
00:07:29
Oscar
Probably not.
00:07:31
Oscar
Yeah, or like a bear. Like in the Revenant, like maybe he should have just ran. i forget how it went down. i feel like he had no chance to run.
00:07:31
Wes MacMillan
Mm-hmm.
00:07:43
Wes MacMillan
But like if a lion has you cornered, technically fighting is your best chance. And if you have a weapon, like if you can find like a mallet of sorts, then maybe.
00:07:54
Wes MacMillan
But it's literally like it's putting your body in sport mode. But in today's world, like we pretty much don't need it. Like we have the animals are either our pets or in zoos or like very far away, at least in America.
00:08:09
Wes MacMillan
And so we don't really need, like you go into a meeting and you're getting the fight or flight.
00:08:09
Oscar
yeah
00:08:13
Wes MacMillan
It doesn't help you at all there. And it doesn't, yeah. If it comes to like talking or like anything besides fighting a tiger, it's not, it's hurting you.
00:08:26
Wes MacMillan
It's hurting you a lot more than it's helping you. And I think a lot of people is is like way more active than it should be.
00:08:35
Oscar
I feel like mine is, but, um,
00:08:41
Oscar
Yeah, it's weird that
00:08:46
Oscar
don't know, in terms of like evolution, where we only meant to have fight or flight, like at that specific period of time where it was like, actually like yeah more of a normal possibility that you could get attacked by line.
00:09:00
Wes MacMillan
um
00:09:03
Wes MacMillan
going off the book what was untethered living untethered it's like there's nothing where it was like and this is it relates to the perfectionism thing it's like there's no like what was supposed to happen there's just like there's literally only what happened and it happened because of like shit like natural selection and like
00:09:08
Oscar
Yeah.
00:09:20
Oscar
right Yeah.
00:09:25
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Like it was just how we adapted over time. Like I think Pete, my, i had a therapist once that was like, we're all so anxious because like the people who saw the line and didn't get nervous, they got mauled immediately.
00:09:40
Wes MacMillan
So all people died and then we're.
00:09:42
Oscar
You probably like the monkeys before us.
00:09:46
Wes MacMillan
And so like only the nervous, only the nervous people survived.
00:09:48
Oscar
so Yeah.
00:09:51
Wes MacMillan
They're not even like nervous, but like, You know what I mean? Only the Nervous Nervous Nervous
00:09:56
Oscar
Yeah. yeah
00:09:59
Wes MacMillan
i like the
00:09:59
Oscar
So do you think there was a period of humans that was like pre-fighter flight? They didn't have it at all? And then it developed, right?
00:10:09
Wes MacMillan
probably and we're very pro-evolution on this pop
00:10:12
Oscar
it's It's honestly like an animalistic instinct, though. So maybe like when we were apes.
00:10:18
Wes MacMillan
Animals definitely have it.
00:10:18
Oscar
We had it.
00:10:20
Wes MacMillan
And yeah, like we were just monkeys, but like, we're just so not monkeys anymore. Like we're like, technically we're human or we're animals, I think, but we're just, we're not living in an animal world at all.
00:10:35
Wes MacMillan
Like it's so like civilized.
00:10:38
Oscar
Yeah. Yeah. I read yesterday that, um, the polar bear is like the only, ah one of the only animals that genuinely like sees humans as prey.
00:10:52
Oscar
I thought that was interesting.
00:10:54
Wes MacMillan
little terriff um i'll or It seems true.
00:10:54
Oscar
No idea if it's true. was on, uh, you know, Musk's Twitter, but where, uh,
00:11:05
Oscar
it feels true.
00:11:08
Wes MacMillan
i don't yeah I've never really felt like prey when another animal was looking at me.
00:11:15
Wes MacMillan
I've seen rats. I've seen birds. But every like serious animal I've seen is like behind bars at the zoo. And those things lose their minds.
00:11:31
Oscar
Yeah. You think like if you're ever a parent and you have a little baby, will you like, if there's like a hawk in the sky, would you be like, you know, on edge or like a bald eagle?
00:11:40
Wes MacMillan
Get away from the baby. I think...
00:11:45
Oscar
Like what? Cause they come and scoop up like little, little animals. Like, don't know.
00:11:49
Wes MacMillan
They little critters.
00:11:52
Oscar
And like little dogs.
00:11:55
Wes MacMillan
I don't think so, but it seems like parents are like just terrified about anything happening to their kids. You think that'll happen to you?
00:12:09
Wes MacMillan
Will you think that'll happen?
00:12:09
Oscar
Yeah, you got to learn how to
00:12:13
Oscar
It does seem like, you know, there's good reason behind it. But if you're a parent, you're, um you know, you become more like concerned about threats to your child than threats to your own personal self, which, yeah, there's good, you know, intention behind it.
00:12:30
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:12:33
Oscar
But Some parents definitely are, uh, you know, overprotective, um, and let like what, when we're in reality, I do feel like to an extent, like you have to let your kid experience the worlds as it comes to them. Um, and understand that.
00:12:56
Oscar
you know, shit happens and you you can't always um be some sort of like protective barrier against your child. Like as soon as they reach like a certain age, it must be difficult for parents to let go. Like, especially when kids like go to college, then you're like,
Parenting and Child Development
00:13:12
Oscar
you know, literally anything could happen to your child.
00:13:16
Oscar
So that must be difficult to kind of let go.
00:13:19
Wes MacMillan
But yeah, Jordan Peterson says exactly like what you're saying. It's like, let your kid skateboard. and That's it's the general message of what are you're saying, I think. Cause it's like, they need to like, look and like, but they need to like fall off a skateboard and see like, oh, like I gotta to be more careful rather than like, if everything they're about to fall, you catch them.
00:13:30
Oscar
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:40
Oscar
Right.
00:13:43
Wes MacMillan
You're just like keeping them a baby forever. Like they need to learn, to like live in the real world. Like you can, you can't protect them forever. So you might as well just like try to have like teach them and not even teach them to protect themselves. Just let them learn their own lessons.
00:14:01
Oscar
And I would bet like everything that the parents who do like, you know, using that, like let their kids skateboard, those are the kids who turn into adults and become like, just find like, at least like in the first part of life, like adult life, like greater success and like can respond to like adversity better.
00:14:24
Wes MacMillan
yeah i definitely agree because they have like at the very young age they learned the lesson of like i don't know what the lesson is and there's probably a bunch of different lessons one's like i gotta be careful around my skateboard two is like maybe they get sick maybe they're like i should wash my hands more I don't know if those are the best examples, but like, if you never let your kid live their lesson, you're just main, you're just keeping them an idiot.
00:14:51
Wes MacMillan
<unk>re They're just going to get like an older and older idiot.
00:14:52
Oscar
ah Yeah.
00:14:56
Wes MacMillan
And that's not what you want.
00:15:00
Oscar
Yeah.
00:15:03
Oscar
Talking about, yeah, parenthood is weird.
00:15:03
Wes MacMillan
it's
00:15:06
Oscar
don't know if I'm ready.
00:15:08
Wes MacMillan
It's also, I, I have no experience.
00:15:11
Oscar
I don't need to be ready.
00:15:13
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:15:13
Oscar
Yeah.
00:15:14
Wes MacMillan
I don't think anyone is ever ready, but I also don't think that's the best thing because I like what I've learned in school is like when you're like eight ages like zero to seven, that's like your programming.
00:15:16
Oscar
No.
00:15:28
Wes MacMillan
And a lot of parents are like, we're not ready, but we'll probably never feel ready. And they just fuck up their shit.
00:15:38
Wes MacMillan
When the kid's fucked, we're not like fucked, but significantly like If you have bad programming, it takes so much work to like adjust that. You know what I mean?
00:15:49
Oscar
Yes, I believe it. um Yeah. So I guess the lesson is like, do your best to, ah you know, bring a child into, a a you know,
00:16:03
Oscar
Be prepared to, uh, it should come into a world where like it can actually like, yeah, be programmed well. And you're not just like, uh, like we're winging it.
00:16:17
Wes MacMillan
like because it is um something one of the better I don't know why I always start with like these grandiose entrances like one of the best things I've ever heard but like one good thing I've heard that you can't Brene Brown she said like you can't give something
00:16:17
Oscar
ah yes
00:16:37
Wes MacMillan
to your kid that like you don't have. So it's like if you're scared of dogs, it's pretty much monkey see monkey do, your kid's probably going be scared of dogs. And it's like if you don't handle stress well, kid's not going handle stress well.
00:16:50
Wes MacMillan
So you can't teach your kid something that like you haven't mastered. So that's why I think like the biggest thing is like you should just have your own shit like figured out. like You should be pretty stable.
00:17:02
Wes MacMillan
You shouldn't be like, oh, me and my boyfriend are like, Or me and my husband are like getting bored with our relationship. A baby will probably fix it because they're fucking that
00:17:12
Oscar
yeah Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Yes, that would be.
00:17:19
Wes MacMillan
I kind of get it because like so much, it seems like love is like the best thing on the planet. And if you have a baby, you're guaranteed, almost guaranteed, it seems to love that baby more than anything ever.
00:17:32
Wes MacMillan
So it's like guaranteed the best relationship you've ever had. You know what I mean?
00:17:36
Oscar
Right, right.
00:17:39
Wes MacMillan
And so if your life's like not doing that great, you're like, a baby would probably make my life a lot better. And maybe it would, but you're fucking that baby.
00:17:51
Oscar
It is definitely like, it's a D it's much deeper than like, you know, I'm having a shit day. So I'm gonna go get some, uh, some food that I like, like this kind of going on to, uh, living untethered.
00:18:08
Oscar
um
00:18:09
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:18:10
Oscar
But this is a much like bigger picture. Like, oh, like my life isn't going how I want it to really right now. So I'm going to bring a child into this world. I'm going to you know change the yeah the externalities and to try and influence like what's going on within me.
00:18:27
Wes MacMillan
yeah
00:18:27
Oscar
And at least... like you know I'm trying to figure it out, but this guy, Michael Singer, he says, Michael A. Singer, he says, you're doing something wrong if that's the case, and you need to fix what's inside before. like Essentially so that nothing external can really... like I don't know.
00:18:50
Oscar
<unk> It's a lot to take in with that book.
00:18:53
Wes MacMillan
I know that book fucked me for like multiple weeks. Like as I was finishing that book, I was literally like scared I was going to become a monk. I don't really remember why got to that point.
00:19:03
Oscar
ah
00:19:05
Wes MacMillan
But, oh, it was basically like everything in the book, as you were just saying, like everything external, like what you could call it a distraction. It's...
00:19:20
Wes MacMillan
I don't know the best way to put it. You could say it doesn't matter, but that's not really true. It's more like you can't fix your life externally. It's all internal. So it's like, I don't like how my life is going.
00:19:31
Oscar
Right.
00:19:34
Wes MacMillan
External let's bring a baby into it is not going to work. You have to like, see like, Oh, why don't I like my life? And it's normally like,
00:19:46
Wes MacMillan
It's also like, oh, I hate my job or I don't love my job. And it's not even necessarily like quit your job. It's like, why don't you like your job?
00:19:58
Wes MacMillan
It's seems to like all be an emotions
00:20:05
Wes MacMillan
and like past experiences and like
00:20:06
Oscar
Yeah.
00:20:09
Wes MacMillan
Another big part of the book, debatably the biggest part of the book. The book's called Living Untethered by Michael Singer, if anyone's listening. But fantastic book.
00:20:18
Oscar
Great book.
00:20:21
Wes MacMillan
But he says, and the short version is like, Oscar and I and you and this cup. And I actually talked about this on the very first episode of the podcast, which is interesting.
00:20:35
Wes MacMillan
And this like water bottle, like it's all made of just like atoms, the very same like atoms. And the only thing that's different is like what the protons or neutrons and like the nucleus.
00:20:47
Wes MacMillan
So it's like, no, it's not like we're humans are living in the universe.
00:20:47
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:20:53
Wes MacMillan
It's like humans are the universe. And we're literally like all of the elements on the periodic table, which we are made of, only exist because of like, they were produced when stars like exploded.
Gratitude and Life's Miraculous Nature
00:21:08
Wes MacMillan
And that's kind of highlights how it's like, oh, you look in the mirror and you're a little too chubby and you get sad. It's like, like you're made of stars.
00:21:19
Wes MacMillan
Why like, it kind of puts everything in perspective. Like, it's so amazing that you're even alive and you're like, sad, you're a little chubby.
00:21:25
Oscar
Yeah.
00:21:30
Oscar
Um, what, yeah. So one like part was, uh, it was kind of like talking about this idea of the low hanging fruit and how you can like develop spirituality, like just dealing like with things that you wouldn't actually consider, um, on a day to day basis, but like a huge, like, like thing people constantly complain about obviously is the weather and how complaining about the weather there's zero, um, benefits and it's a hundred percent, just like you're upset, you're resisting.
00:21:53
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:22:00
Wes MacMillan
yeah
00:22:02
Oscar
And then, so instead of like being upset that, um, it's cold out or it's cloudy out or whatever, appreciate that somehow there's, um, a star like, you know, light years or whatever, how the distance that it is away, the sun is from us.
00:22:22
Oscar
Um, and that somehow you can feel the heat, and the energy that that's producing. Um, And yeah, just appreciate that. Kind of like what you're saying.
00:22:33
Oscar
Like, it's just such a miracle that you feel the sun in the first place, even if it's 20 degrees out. Like, you know, you should be glad it's not negative 1000. Yeah.
00:22:47
Wes MacMillan
but so But it's it's very true. It's like, it's a little chilly when it's like,
00:22:51
Oscar
yeah
00:22:56
Wes MacMillan
ah Do you know like all the fucking shit that had to happen for you to like be alive? And like every other planet in like the universe and like, are there multiple universes?
00:23:07
Wes MacMillan
No, multiple galaxies. There's probably like billions of planets. And this is like the only one that has like life on it, that has the ability to sustain animals and humans as we know.
00:23:21
Wes MacMillan
And you're like, oh, it's a little chilly. It could be like a negative a thousand and you'd be dead instantly.
00:23:27
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:23:27
Wes MacMillan
And basically his point is like, you don't have the right, you have no right to be like, I don't like this because it's a little chilly and I wanted to go for like a run.
00:23:39
Wes MacMillan
It's like, there is ah there's like, we're on one planet and a whole solar system with like eight planets getting heated by a star.
00:23:53
Wes MacMillan
And then there's just like billions of those. And we're on the only one where you have the possibility to be alive and you're sad because you can't go on your fucking run.
00:24:06
Wes MacMillan
Like it's,
00:24:07
Oscar
Yeah.
00:24:10
Oscar
No, yeah.
00:24:11
Wes MacMillan
it really doesn't.
00:24:11
Oscar
And two the fact that to this day with all the... yeah you know, technology that we have that allows us to explore space. And we're still the only like, you know, definitive, like this planet can sustain life or has proven to sustain life, um, is wild, very wild.
00:24:36
Wes MacMillan
And it's, I talked about this little bit on the last episode, but it's all about like taking things personal. It's like, you don't like it's a little chilly because you wanted to go on a run. It's like the universe is not about you.
00:24:49
Wes MacMillan
It doesn't give a fuck about your run.
00:24:52
Oscar
Yes. Yeah, no, I saw you talking about that. um It's very true. um
00:24:58
Wes MacMillan
And it's, it's everything.
00:25:02
Wes MacMillan
Cause it's like a expectation that life is just going to like be set up like for you. But like the reality is like, you're not the center of the universe, which is a relief because it takes a lot of pressure off.
00:25:14
Oscar
Yeah.
00:25:18
Oscar
It really does.
00:25:22
Oscar
Um, one thing I was thinking about was like, you know, it like this idea in the book preaches like everything, nerd nothing's really personal. So then I was thinking about it.
00:25:34
Oscar
Um, and I was like, you know, what if at work or in class or something, um, you know, someone's like makes a comment or says something that like directly insults you.
00:25:48
Oscar
And that's like very personal, obviously, like for you, or at least when you experience that, like someone like says some shit about you and it's about you, they say it to you. That's like, okay, that, that felt personal.
00:26:01
Oscar
But like, I think the idea is that like, they're saying that out of some sort of like disturbance in their own, like,
00:26:01
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:26:12
Wes MacMillan
yeah
00:26:12
Oscar
you know, soul, you know? And so it really, it's actually not personal for you. It's, ah it's more so like personal for them and that you just like experience them have a disturbance in their mind and their reality that they were so like upset about something within that they lashed out and targeted you with it.
00:26:33
Oscar
And that's kind of like, you Cause I was thinking like, bro, some shit like definitely is, it feels personal when someone just like calls you like a name or it says some crazy insult to you.
00:26:33
Wes MacMillan
Bye.
00:26:47
Oscar
But I don't think it is. i think, yeah you know, everyone's just kind of you're experiencing the world. There's nothing you could do about the fact that they felt that way at that moment. You just experienced it and it's up to you to respond.
00:27:01
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, very good point. It's almost, you can make an argument that it's like never about you.
00:27:06
Oscar
Thank you.
00:27:06
Wes MacMillan
Because often like when someone like lashes out at you, it's probably like you said something 20 minutes ago that you didn't even give a second thought that made them feel insecure.
00:27:17
Wes MacMillan
And it's very like understandable why so when someone's like, nice shirt, idiot, like why that feels personal. But it's it's not. It's like they got caught up In their own bullshit.
00:27:32
Wes MacMillan
And now they're trying to like. Get revenge. And the whole. And you have a choice. Because you don't have to let it affect you. It's one another thing. It's easier said than done.
00:27:44
Wes MacMillan
But if you can remember that it's like. It's never about you. It's a lot easier.
00:27:49
Oscar
Yeah.
00:27:52
Oscar
Kind of like when ah Will Smith like slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars. like
00:27:59
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:27:59
Oscar
So neither side was really personal because Will Smith was so disturbed or like, you know, upset within himself that, you know, people were laughing at his wife and whatever, like he, his wife, whether he felt like it was him or his wife or whatever was the butt of the joke.
00:27:59
Wes MacMillan
Great example.
00:28:17
Oscar
um You know, he, he took that out on Chris Rock, but Chris Rock also like his job is to make, you know, he, he only gets like, At this point, it's accepted that like, if you want to be funny during one of those speeches, like you basically just pick people out of the audience, like famous people and make fun of them.
00:28:37
Oscar
But so like he and it wasn't out of hatred.
00:28:41
Wes MacMillan
No.
00:28:41
Oscar
So like, like an interaction like that, like someone says something, the other person responds by like hitting them like physical. At the end of the day, at least at the starting point, like it wasn't personal at all.
00:28:57
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, honestly, a fantastic example. Because it's not like Chris Rock is like, oh, I'm going to accept this job so I can flame the shit out of G.I. Jane.
00:29:06
Oscar
No, no.
00:29:08
Oscar
He's desperately like looking for material. He's like, oh, there's this bald chick in the audience. Let's make a joke about her.
00:29:08
Wes MacMillan
And well...
00:29:17
Oscar
She happens to be famous.
00:29:17
Wes MacMillan
and well
00:29:19
Wes MacMillan
It's so like clearly like I think it's like I'm not like even into like celebrities but and I honestly I don't even know if I knew this before Will slapped the shit out of him but like Will and Jane's relationship seems like so tenuous and that's what it was about like he's insecure in his relationship so he's trying to do everything he can like protect and like
00:29:38
Oscar
Yeah, right, right, right.
00:29:50
Wes MacMillan
Kind of like. It seems like he like is so in love with her. And she just doesn't give a fuck about him. And that's probably like. i don't. I'm not in their relationship.
00:30:02
Wes MacMillan
But like he was. And I know guys in relationships like this. Where it's like.
00:30:09
Wes MacMillan
She probably wouldn't like change her hairstyle for him and he would like die for her. So like, he was like, this is my moment to like defend her honor. And she probably didn't even want him to, but yeah.
00:30:23
Oscar
Yeah. ah No, I don't think so. Yeah. yeah I think it was also because it's like a medical condition that she has or something like that.
00:30:34
Oscar
you know, Crazy moment. The Oscars are tonight as well.
00:30:40
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. All right.
00:30:42
Oscar
So that's kind of what made me think of it. Yeah, the scares.
00:30:44
Wes MacMillan
The screws.
00:30:48
Oscar
A
00:30:50
Wes MacMillan
ah
00:30:51
Oscar
ah ri ah real pain is up for...
00:30:57
Oscar
Kieran Culkin is Best Supporting Actor nominated for that.
00:31:02
Wes MacMillan
Which one is me?
00:31:05
Oscar
you know The one with the depression.
00:31:09
Wes MacMillan
Okay.
00:31:09
Oscar
and Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best Supporting Actor. And then Jesse Eisenberg is, he wrote the movie, so he's nominated for Best Screenplay.
00:31:20
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, Oscar watched a movie, A Real Pain. i don't know what it's
Movie Characters and Life Approaches
00:31:24
Wes MacMillan
on. I streamed it illegally. Hulu?
00:31:25
Oscar
Hulu. Yeah.
00:31:29
Wes MacMillan
It's on Hulu if anyone wants to watch it, if anyone's listening. But main the main takeaway I got is that there's two guys in the movie, and one is kind of like a people pleaser.
00:31:42
Oscar
Thank you.
00:31:45
Wes MacMillan
And I feel like... feel like At least I could see myself in both of them. i kind of saw myself more in the quieter, people-pleaser one.
00:31:56
Wes MacMillan
But there's a people-pleaser guy who's just like... He's very polite. He doesn't like... He's kind of he's the kind of guy who's like not going to disagree with you even if he disagrees with you.
00:32:07
Wes MacMillan
Because he's trying to just like... It seems like he's walking on eggshells to get everyone to like him. And then there's another guy who just...
00:32:12
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:32:17
Wes MacMillan
He's just raw. He's himself. He doesn't really give much thought about what other people think. And on like several, and they go on this trip and then several times throughout the trip, like the second guy, he like causes a scene where like the whole group is kind of like mad at him.
00:32:36
Wes MacMillan
And you get to like, In my mind, at least, I was like, oh, they probably like the polite one who never, like, disagrees with them and has never caused any problems, like, way more.
00:32:49
Wes MacMillan
But then as they're leaving, they're saying goodbye, and they they're saying goodbye to the second guy who caused a bunch of scenes and kind of, like...
00:33:00
Wes MacMillan
He made the trip a lot more difficult. And they're like, everyone like goes and gives him a hug. And they're like, we really hope you're going to be okay. Like it was really great getting to know you. And then they see the first guy and they're like, see ya.
00:33:13
Oscar
Yeah, peace out, Jude. Exactly.
00:33:16
Wes MacMillan
And it's.
00:33:16
Oscar
Exactly. But he also made the trip much more memorable for them.
00:33:22
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:33:23
Oscar
But the like the part where he didn't even bother to wake up Jesse Eisenberg and they just kept going through their train stop. And then so they circle back around and everyone's just been waiting. They're like sleeping on the ground ah outside of the train.
00:33:37
Oscar
like That would be like... If I was ever on it like ah you know a trip like that and some people did that, I'd be like, bro, like come on. i I don't know. i
00:33:50
Wes MacMillan
i I think it it hammers home the lesson, which is when you don't like when you're not yourself and you like hide yourself from people, you don't even like give them the opportunity to even know you.
00:33:50
Oscar
But...
00:34:03
Wes MacMillan
And that's why like you're kind of like invisible.
00:34:10
Wes MacMillan
Because when he wasn't there, no one even fucking noticed. Because his whole thing is kind of like trying to blend in and trying to get people to not like you.
00:34:21
Wes MacMillan
But when you're like that, it's like no one yeah you no one will dislike you, but like no one even knows you, which is just so sad and lonely. and like not worth it and i think most people are guilty of like people pleasing like biting their tongue because they don't want to like cause an argument but it's like you're high like
00:34:32
Oscar
Right. Right.
00:34:48
Oscar
If you try and please everyone, you'll please no one. It's essentially...
00:34:52
Wes MacMillan
yeah And you're trying ah you're trying to be what other what you you're trying to be what you think other people want you to be, when in reality, other people just want you to be yourself.
00:34:54
Oscar
Like, yeah.
00:35:02
Oscar
Exactly.
00:35:05
Wes MacMillan
That's kind of like, that's a big thing ah feel like these days.
00:35:12
Oscar
he was the Yeah. Culkin's character was... karen calkins character was For better or for worse, he was just himself. um I thought, yeah.
00:35:23
Wes MacMillan
and i I imagine like you could go through life being either of those guys and it's just so clear like which one I'd rather be at least.
00:35:35
Wes MacMillan
But there is, you could make like the first guy does like fit into society a lot better. Like he has a wife, he has a kid, he has a good job I think.
00:35:47
Wes MacMillan
And then the second guy it almost feels like he just doesn't fit into the world. you know what I mean?
00:35:56
Oscar
Yeah. And this kind of ties into living untethered because like ah what could really help Kieran Culkin's character is that, you know, he he needs to recognize that despite all of his, he's just a guy who he feels everything, right. He's, he's raw. Like you said, he, did everything that happens, he feels it. And like, you can see that everything, like he's feeling everything.
00:36:20
Oscar
Um, but he needs to recognize that like, um, you can, there are still like, like external, like responsibilities is except as essentially what Michael Singer called them where like, if you're like, you know, one of the spirituality, like points he talked about was being,
00:36:42
Oscar
like noticing that you are the noticer of your, your thoughts and your emotions and whatever. But like it, say you get fired for, this is the example you use. So you get fired from your job.
00:36:55
Oscar
Like you can still like handle that, like spiritually, like very well, just notice that you're upset about that and deal with that, like in a positive way, but still recognize like,
00:37:08
Oscar
oh, like I still have a responsibility. I like i need to get a new job now. And like you can't just... Like being the person who watches your thoughts is not just an excuse. Like kind of how like Kieran Culkin, he stays, right? They say goodbye, whatever they do the hug.
00:37:24
Oscar
And then he just stays at the airport. Like, ah which makes me think like, did anything really change?
00:37:26
Wes MacMillan
Mm-hmm.
00:37:29
Oscar
Like he, okay. So he just like, don't know if he lives at the airport. He just hangs out there. um Whatever. But like, he has a responsibility to, to you know, but to live a life that is a,
00:37:45
Oscar
You know, I don't know. It's hard to describe. yeah it can't It's an excuse for like, it shouldn't be an excuse to just like coast and like live like a sort of a lazy, like unfulfilling life.
00:38:01
Wes MacMillan
Well, yeah, at the end of the movie, the second guy who everyone loved, who was like him, wasn't afraid to be himself, but he stirred the pot a couple times, like the trip's over and the first guy, the people pleaser, he goes home to his wife and family and his job.
00:38:17
Wes MacMillan
And the second guy, he just kind of sits at the airport and you can kind of tell that he's like very depressed.
00:38:22
Oscar
Right.
00:38:24
Wes MacMillan
And in the beginning of the movie, he was very depressed. And it kind of shows like we were talking about, it's like, If you're depressed, like a trip to Europe, isn't going to like solve your depression. Like that's an internal problem.
00:38:39
Wes MacMillan
A trip to Europe is a distraction and distractions can be helpful.
00:38:40
Oscar
right
00:38:45
Wes MacMillan
And it's also tough because depression is like,
00:38:50
Wes MacMillan
we don't like a lot of people are depressed and there's not like, there's no quick fix. Like it's something you kind of have to deal with.
00:39:00
Wes MacMillan
So.
00:39:04
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, that's why it's like makes it so hard because even if you like go inside, it's like incredibly complicated. Another point in the movie, and I want to talk about the noticing and like the awareness part after, but the first guy, the people pleaser, Michael Cera or Singer?
00:39:23
Wes MacMillan
No.
00:39:25
Oscar
Which oh Jesse Eisenberg, yeah.
00:39:25
Wes MacMillan
Eisenberg. Jesse Eisenberg. He's
00:39:28
Oscar
It does kind of look like Michael Cera.
00:39:32
Wes MacMillan
he's at, he's at the table and this is like kind of the most, like he lets people in the whole trip. Um, so the second guy, the one who's not afraid to be himself, he like kind of has a scene and he like loses it and he like goes to the bathroom and he's like, I'm sorry about him.
00:39:50
Wes MacMillan
He's like, I meditate, I jog, I like do everything for my stress and I'm still in pain, but I'm
00:39:53
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:39:58
Wes MacMillan
It seems like everyone is in and pain and I'm not special. So I just don't talk about it. And I feel like that's kind of true, but I don't know if it's, I feel like that's the attitude for a lot of people.
00:40:12
Wes MacMillan
It's either like I'm hurting in some way and I don't know what to do or like I'm hurting in some way, but everyone's hurting. So like, fuck it, keep it pushing.
00:40:24
Wes MacMillan
But I don't, And maybe that's life, like everyone goes through stuff, but it does seem a little bit like like a depressing outlook that those are the two options, if you know what I mean.
00:40:39
Oscar
Yeah, the...
00:40:43
Oscar
Eckhart Tolle like talks about like this idea of like your pain body, which is like essentially like your accumulation of, uh, your past experiences your past, like things that have caused you pain, kind of like being like a trailing, like cloud behind you that you walk with.
00:41:02
Oscar
Um, And Michael Singer, like, it was interesting because he said, like, the thing about the weather and how, like, you get zero. You to get nothing out of complaining about the weather. Like, it exists.
00:41:13
Oscar
So, and then if you complain about it, like, the weather is still shit and now you're just upset about it. He said the same exact thing about the weather goes for your past. But it's just essentially, like, your past, like, it is whatever it is.
00:41:28
Oscar
But, like, You know, as long as you look forward and you don't like let your pain body or, uh, you know, whatever, like have any direct, like, or any influence at all on the current life that you're living, that's sort of the path to, uh, to spirituality.
00:41:47
Wes MacMillan
And it's definitely true The mind and body are very connect. Like, I don't even think it's like a shadow. I think it's legit, like stored in your
Physicality of Mental Health
00:41:54
Wes MacMillan
body. There's some stat where it's like, if someone who's depressed gets a massage, like 75% of their symptoms or like 75% of the time, it gets rid of 75% of like the depression symptoms, which is fucking insane.
00:41:55
Oscar
Yeah.
00:42:09
Wes MacMillan
It's like.
00:42:10
Oscar
Yeah.
00:42:10
Wes MacMillan
you are in a bad place mentally and someone goes and rubs your back and your shoulders and you're a little tushy an hour.
00:42:17
Oscar
Yeah.
00:42:17
Wes MacMillan
and And after your depression is one fourth of what it was.
00:42:20
Oscar
yeah
00:42:24
Wes MacMillan
So if you were like at at a 10 out of 10 pain, now you're at like a two or a three. That's insane.
00:42:33
Oscar
yeah
00:42:35
Wes MacMillan
And it's literally,
00:42:35
Oscar
Damn, i didn't this I didn't know massages were like that. I mean, I knew they were obviously good for you, but...
00:42:42
Wes MacMillan
but it's temporary.
00:42:42
Oscar
and the
00:42:44
Wes MacMillan
And like the pain, like it might like get you a release, but if, until you deal with those like emotions, I think it's going to like keep manifesting in your body, which is like, like it's so complicated and everything is so connected and it's very cool, but it's also like, how the hell am I supposed to navigate this?
00:42:45
Oscar
Right.
00:43:02
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:43:10
Oscar
massages are expensive as shit I wish they weren't unless you want like a you know whatever, like a good, like, miss so like, I don't know.
00:43:21
Wes MacMillan
I know.
00:43:23
Oscar
Um, elements massage in Andover was like, dude, it was like a hundred bucks for like 45 minutes, something, maybe an hour, a hundred, a hundred dollars.
00:43:25
Wes MacMillan
It's like a hundred bucks. Oh
00:43:34
Oscar
And then you walk out and they're like, Oh, like, do you want a tip? Like the masseuse, the custom is, is 20%.
00:43:38
Wes MacMillan
my God.
00:43:40
Oscar
So then it's one 20. And it's like, I don't, yeah, it's expensive. If you want like a real good one, and
00:43:52
Wes MacMillan
I know that is it's wildly expensive. And sometimes it's covered by insurance. I do like I milk the shit out of my parents insurance. When I turned like 26 and I get kicked off, I'm going to be devastated.
00:44:07
Oscar
Yeah, that'll be.
00:44:07
Wes MacMillan
Cause I like, cause right now I can like pretty much get a massage for free as long as they meet their deductible, which they always do.
00:44:11
Oscar
i
00:44:16
Oscar
Really?
00:44:17
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:44:19
Oscar
ah
00:44:19
Wes MacMillan
That's kind of like insurance works. And I like that.
00:44:22
Oscar
United health, right? Dude.
00:44:24
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, I literally, that guy bought the CEO, that's the insurance I have.
00:44:29
Oscar
but Yeah. Luigi was tripping. I was about to say, doesn't know about the massage game, the deductibles.
00:44:32
Wes MacMillan
or
00:44:37
Wes MacMillan
I'm not going to publicly support Luigi, but I think this, like the insurance game is making money off like people trying to like be okay.
00:44:40
Oscar
No.
00:44:48
Wes MacMillan
Health wise.
00:44:52
Wes MacMillan
It's a little. Not a mean type shit.
00:44:56
Oscar
Yes.
00:44:57
Wes MacMillan
But I don't even want to go down that rabbit hole. Luigi's a good guy.
00:45:01
Oscar
No.
00:45:01
Wes MacMillan
I mean,
00:45:03
Oscar
ahpi Yeah. Massages. i I don't, this begs the question, like is spirituality and, you know, feeling good. Is that, is that pay to play ah in the way that, you know, golf is or.
00:45:21
Oscar
i
00:45:22
Wes MacMillan
i mean I think like,
00:45:22
Oscar
why is it like sauna? You want a sauna, dude? All right, so get a gym membership or install one in your house for $10,000. It's he's like
00:45:31
Wes MacMillan
yeah it is very much like spiritually, spirituality should be like nothing about money. But like, if you're like homeless and like have major health problems, like And this's this is a big thing in therapy. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
00:45:51
Wes MacMillan
It's like you you cannot even like look at spirituality until you have like food, water, shelter, space.
00:45:51
Oscar
Yeah.
00:45:57
Wes MacMillan
And you can't have that stuff unless you have money.
00:45:59
Oscar
No.
00:46:00
Wes MacMillan
You can't have money unless you have like a good job. So if you don't have a good job,
00:46:08
Wes MacMillan
you can't be spiritual. I'm sorry.
00:46:14
Oscar
Or just like, yeah.
00:46:16
Wes MacMillan
Even like there's a Buddhist temple,
00:46:17
Oscar
Maybe just a show.
00:46:20
Oscar
Yeah.
00:46:21
Wes MacMillan
there's a Buddhist temple like two minute walk from me.
00:46:22
Oscar
Yeah.
00:46:25
Wes MacMillan
And it's, I was like, that's sick. I want to check that out. Like I like a lot of Buddhist ideas. And there was like, yeah, like show up to the first session, and it's free.
00:46:32
Oscar
Membership.
00:46:35
Wes MacMillan
But like most people leave like 30 bucks every time they come. What the fuck? Like, you is there nothing that's like free?
00:46:43
Oscar
That's tough.
00:46:50
Oscar
yeah
00:46:53
Wes MacMillan
Like a Buddhist.
00:46:53
Oscar
30 bucks every time.
00:46:56
Wes MacMillan
I like, I'm in school. I'm poor.
00:46:59
Oscar
Yeah. At least I like, you know, the Catholic church, you just got toss like a nickel into the little basket. It's not that bad. yeah
00:47:10
Wes MacMillan
And you don't really have to, but it's so funny.
00:47:12
Oscar
No, you don't have to eat it.
00:47:14
Wes MacMillan
That is like one of the most interesting dynamics on the planet of like, just like you're sitting next to like 10 people and just a basket is like slowly moved in front of you.
00:47:25
Wes MacMillan
And you don't have to put in money, but if you don't like people will be like, you fucking serious.
00:47:32
Oscar
Yeah. I mean, is god is God pay to play? Everything's kind of, ah it's tough.
00:47:41
Wes MacMillan
Is God pay to play? And that's, I'm like, and i I'm like, I consider myself a spiritual person. Like it's a big part of my life, but I like almost refuse to go into like organized religion. Cause it's, it's pay to play.
00:48:01
Wes MacMillan
And it's also like, I don't want like the group think, you know what I mean?
00:48:08
Oscar
Yeah.
00:48:08
Wes MacMillan
Like a lot of people are spiritual and then they join.
00:48:10
Oscar
Well, people take comfort in that.
00:48:10
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. and
00:48:12
Oscar
Right, right.
00:48:13
Wes MacMillan
And they stop like really thinking about it and they just like accept the belief of that religion. When I'm more so, I'm like, there is a there's a bit of truth in all religion. And also all religions point to like the answer is inside you.
00:48:28
Wes MacMillan
You know who else did? Michael fucking Singer, living together.
00:48:31
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
00:48:34
Wes MacMillan
Every single religion, if you boil it down to the like the message, it's like the kingdom is inside you. which is exactly what Michael Singer is saying in Living Untethered. It's like you can't fix your life externally. You can only fix it internally.
00:48:52
Wes MacMillan
And just another thing is, fuck, it's everything is so connected, but it's like,
00:49:01
Wes MacMillan
it's not even like your life needs to be fixed. It's like the way you think about your life needs to be fixed. And that's why you can't fix it externally.
00:49:09
Oscar
Yeah.
00:49:16
Oscar
Yeah, absolutely.
00:49:16
Wes MacMillan
And i everyone who's in, I won't say everyone, but there is problem there's a problem with organized religion where they all think they're like a hundred percent.
00:49:18
Oscar
Yeah.
00:49:26
Wes MacMillan
Right. And they're just like, don't like each other when the message of most of them boils down to the same thing.
00:49:39
Oscar
Yeah.
00:49:40
Wes MacMillan
And another big, go ahead.
00:49:41
Oscar
Because religion is like... don't know. we at Conflicts in the world. like I feel like the ah you know Israel versus Palestine. like That all comes back to religion.
00:49:59
Oscar
I think.
00:50:01
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, I think they're fighting over like the Holy Land.
00:50:04
Oscar
And the amount of you know blood that has been shed in the name of...
00:50:04
Wes MacMillan
I'm honest.
00:50:10
Oscar
religion. But then again, like, it definitely has gotten to the point where they're not fighting over religion, they're fighting over something. I don't know, something.
00:50:20
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. I think it started over religion, but apparently they've been beefing for like decades, if not centuries.
00:50:31
Oscar
Yeah, blah. Yeah. Yes. Long time. So a lot of is based on the past, which like, you know,
00:50:39
Wes MacMillan
and yeah the connection here is fucking beautiful but it's like also like I notice it's all I'm I believe it a hundred percent it's what we were talking about earlier it's like when someone insults you it's more like a disturbance in them and it's like i I noticed when I first moved here there was a kid it's like and I could just tell that like everything out of his mouth was just like it felt like very
00:50:50
Oscar
Thank you.
00:51:09
Wes MacMillan
It felt like he was acting, like he was pretending to be something he wasn't. And I could have just been like, laugh like he had some funny jokes. I could have laughed at him. But instead it like drove me up a wall that I could just tell that this kid was like trying to be something he was not.
00:51:27
Wes MacMillan
And they it's always like, if that's the case, it's because I don't like when I pretend to be something I'm not.
00:51:28
Oscar
Right.
00:51:35
Wes MacMillan
It's like, it's always about you and it's never about you. If that makes sense.
00:51:44
Oscar
Yeah.
00:51:45
Wes MacMillan
Even me, me not liking him, it wasn't about him, it was about me
00:51:45
Oscar
Cause like,
00:51:52
Oscar
Exactly. And say you're having in like, for whatever reason, like some shit happens and you're having a bad day. And then like, uh, your roommate or your friend does something that like slightly annoys you or just like, is a, is a minor inconvenience to you.
00:52:12
Oscar
And you like,
00:52:12
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:52:14
Oscar
you know, respond very strongly. where Whereas if you were having a better like day, you wouldn't, you just been like, ah whatever. But you respond like strongly and angry, angrily.
00:52:25
Oscar
And then like you go home and then like, you kind of got to sit with that. Like, at least for me, like I I'm like, I'm thinking so much in my head, like, Oh, like I was so mean to my friend or I was so like, I was like such a piece of shit to my roommate today that completely like outweighs anything that like led up to it being like, you know, a bad day for you.
00:52:49
Oscar
Then you actually like took action based upon the bad day and like, you feel guilty about it. to the point where like you wake up the next day and you feel like you need to like sort of reconcile and like make, make good with that person.
00:53:03
Wes MacMillan
Thank you.
00:53:04
Oscar
Because like, And the connection is that that person, like
Empathy and Personal Challenges
00:53:08
Oscar
your roommate or your friend who you did that to, they probably took it personally. Like, oh, they don't like me. When in reality, they don't see everything. they see They don't see the bad day that you having.
00:53:18
Oscar
They also don't see, like, the the afterwards where you feel so bad about it. And you're like, oh, like, why did I say that? Why did I do that? They don't see that either. They they could think, like...
00:53:30
Oscar
Like they don't even give a shit about me. They they all were mean to me. Like, yeah. and So that's interesting. Like, and just something that like is so like present and everyday life. I see that shit every day.
00:53:43
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, it's and I'm there's a couple of people in my life who say like everybody's getting their like ass kicked by something and you just like have no idea what other people are going through.
00:53:54
Oscar
Definitely true.
00:53:54
Wes MacMillan
you
00:53:56
Wes MacMillan
You just get like blips and you think it's about you, but it's never about you.
00:54:03
Oscar
Yeah. Yes.
00:54:05
Wes MacMillan
It's so it boils down to like everyone has a life like just as complicated as yours. Like even like the people you walk down the street and you never see them again, like that's,
00:54:20
Wes MacMillan
as they're like passing by, like, I don't know. It's just like, imagine like walking by someone and you don't even like,
00:54:30
Wes MacMillan
you just don't even like think about it. But like that person, you know nothing about their life, but it's, they have like a whole life that you know nothing about. It's like just as complicated as your life.
00:54:42
Wes MacMillan
And you have like no idea, you never think about it.
00:54:47
Oscar
I saw there was a quote that was like, everyone has a million problems in their life or a million things to complain about. And then, but once you get a health problem, then you only have one problem.
00:55:01
Oscar
I thought that was interesting.
00:55:01
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
00:55:03
Wes MacMillan
I literally I thought of that before the podcast because I have bronchitis right now. And the one and similar quote is like, healthy man wants a million things. A sick man only wants one thing to get better.
00:55:15
Oscar
Yes, yes.
00:55:20
Wes MacMillan
But I don't know how true it is, to be honest, because I like I still and no. It is true because, because I had the flu and when I had the flu, all I wanted was to be done with the flu, but the bronchitis just isn't that bad. Like I can still live my life, but when you're really sick, you only want one thing to be better.
00:55:38
Oscar
What is that? So what is the, what does bronchitis even entail? I've i've never had it. What are your, yeah,
00:55:44
Wes MacMillan
A lot of congestion, my voice, like my voice, it's a little and more normal today, but it's been very horsesh for the past couple days.
00:55:51
Oscar
yeah, yeah. yeah
00:55:53
Wes MacMillan
It's still a little horsesh. And I like, I went on a hike and normally like I'm in, I go on a fair amount of hikes and it wasn't even a hard hike.
00:55:56
Oscar
Right.
00:56:05
Wes MacMillan
And I went on like, yeah. And I would like, normally i would just be like walking and I was kind of like gassed. Like my lungs are at like 70% health is how I'd explain it.
00:56:19
Oscar
Yeah, that's not, yeah, not what you want.
00:56:23
Oscar
Tough.
00:56:23
Wes MacMillan
But the show goes on.
00:56:27
Oscar
Lupe said that, Lupe, if you ask him.
00:56:29
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. and yeah, technically the thing This is a little, technically like the best thing you can do for bronchitis is like not talk.
00:56:40
Wes MacMillan
And I'm doing a podcast. And I also like, I've been listening to music. It's been, it's become very clear to me how like, like I'll play a song I like, and I just, I can't like not like sing and like get into it. new it Like I can't hold back.
00:56:55
Wes MacMillan
It's like, I have to turn it off or I'm going ham.
00:57:00
Oscar
In the car for me is a big one. Um,
00:57:06
Oscar
Are you like a music in the shower guy? Cause I, I see argument where like your chat year, when you take a shower, like it's a good place to just be in your own head. Nothing's like influencing your thoughts or whatever.
00:57:17
Oscar
But then like when you're in the shower and you got the speaker bumping, like there are good vibes to be had there.
00:57:26
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, I go back and forth on a daily basis because I sort of always want to be listening to music and i'm like, should I be silent sometimes?
00:57:34
Oscar
Right.
00:57:36
Wes MacMillan
And I don't think, do you think constant stimulation is good?
00:57:44
Oscar
Probably not. What do you mean? Because everything's always stimulation, right?
00:57:50
Wes MacMillan
I think there's, there's levels, there's levels to it. My mom, my mom often says that referencing the Kendrick song, there's levels to it.
00:57:56
Oscar
Yeah.
00:58:01
Wes MacMillan
You and I know, but,
00:58:10
Wes MacMillan
but, um,
00:58:11
Oscar
Does she say it like that?
00:58:13
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. i She's very funny. It took me like decades to figure out like my mom is extremely funny. Because usually like when I was younger, i was like, mom, you're just annoying. But now it's like the truth has come out.
00:58:28
Wes MacMillan
But what I wanted, the point was like, I know, I know multiple people are like, and know, yeah, multiple people, probably a good way to put it.
00:58:29
Oscar
Yeah.
00:58:39
Wes MacMillan
But like, they can't even go to sleep without like playing something.
00:58:43
Oscar
Yeah.
00:58:48
Oscar
And like, to like an air in an air pod, right? Or a earbud or just out loud.
00:58:52
Wes MacMillan
And that's like,
00:58:54
Oscar
I kind of like, no, I, I could, i could, but I just like, like, you know, following it. I like enjoy listening to a podcast or sometimes music or at the very least, like i almost always have like a fan blasting.
00:59:11
Oscar
It's more of enjoyment. Like I'm pretty sure I could fall asleep fine without anything.
00:59:17
Wes MacMillan
and it probably
00:59:20
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, as long as it's not like I can't be with my thoughts or else I'm in trouble. Like that's when I think it's bad.
00:59:27
Oscar
yeah
00:59:28
Wes MacMillan
Like if you're just disrupting yourself 24-7 for like your whole life.
00:59:29
Oscar
yeah
00:59:33
Oscar
ah
00:59:36
Wes MacMillan
That's what, ah and I, my mind, I mean, i think have ups and downs. But like on most days, I'm pretty comfortable with my mind, which is, like it i get definitely did not used to be that way.
00:59:50
Wes MacMillan
And that's where I've been doing a lot of the like inner work. And it's so vague. and i like like Inner work, I feel like if I were to like describe it, it's like figuring out like how your past is affecting you, I guess. like Ways to do it is like journaling, therapy, meditation,
01:00:12
Oscar
me
01:00:14
Wes MacMillan
shit like that.
01:00:14
Oscar
Exercise. Yeah.
01:00:17
Wes MacMillan
Exercise is a little less about...
01:00:17
Oscar
Kind of.
01:00:20
Wes MacMillan
like the inner stuff. Like it's more of like a release than like actually dealing with it.
01:00:23
Oscar
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:24
Wes MacMillan
But I also think it's extremely necessary.
01:00:28
Oscar
Yeah.
01:00:31
Oscar
ah exercises to go.
01:00:35
Wes MacMillan
Cause I, yeah, sometimes like I've been doing a lot of this inner work for like a while and sometimes it feels like you get nowhere, but like my mind used to be like a nightmare and still on a bad day it is. But for the most part,
01:00:49
Wes MacMillan
It's not like that anymore, which is like a game changer. Like you should be able to sit alone if you thought it'd be okay.
01:00:52
Oscar
Yeah.
01:00:56
Oscar
Definitely. Definitely.
01:01:00
Oscar
Um, I like work is also like, I think it's just my, no, like, you know, there are a lot of jobs where like when the, you know, the restaurant is so busy that I like, don't even have time to think about anything else other than like doing my job well, like to serve customers.
01:01:19
Wes MacMillan
you
01:01:20
Oscar
Like that is also like in a similar way that exercises, it's like, you know, running is nice. Cause like, Well, I don't know if that's true.
01:01:32
Oscar
I was going to say you because you're only really thinking about running in that moment. But that's like, you know, but like they just thinking about like work, like what ah say you're like, you know, working on like a ah like an investment, like or a trading floor, like like ah the Wolf of Wall Street or something. And if you're so into it that you don't even think about anything else, I think that's actually a good thing.
01:01:58
Wes MacMillan
I think it's enjoyable and it's probably like a good release but and I don't know if it's like a pessimistic view but does that mean you're just like always just trying to get away from your mind
01:02:12
Oscar
Yeah.
01:02:14
Wes MacMillan
Because literally it's like you you said, like being so busy that you can't even like think about anything else. Like that's the piece. And that's like kind of what we're chasing.
01:02:24
Oscar
yeah
01:02:26
Wes MacMillan
Which is like, I feel like everyone's in the same boat, but that's a little like weird. And two, like one thing me and Oscar were texting about, don't even know how this started.
01:02:38
Wes MacMillan
But we were talking about space and it's like there are no problems on Neptune and Earth feels like filled with problems.
01:02:48
Oscar
Which begs the question, what is what is a problem?
01:02:53
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:02:53
Oscar
Is it inherently... It is inherently human-related. ah problem.
01:03:00
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. And
01:03:02
Oscar
Because like if there were no humans on Earth, that asteroid who that everyone... There was a 3% chance that it was going to hit. That wouldn't be a problem. no like There's no humans here to like make it a problem.
01:03:14
Wes MacMillan
And it's really something what that Eckhart Tolle talked about. And I think you were the first person to tell me this is like, when you die, it's not even sad because like you're dead.
01:03:26
Oscar
Right.
01:03:27
Wes MacMillan
And so much of our life.
01:03:28
Oscar
And that's like worst case scenario.
01:03:28
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:03:30
Oscar
Like you could actually know you're dead and you're suddenly like just chilling in heaven.
01:03:31
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:03:36
Oscar
Yeah.
01:03:38
Wes MacMillan
And it's like people around you will be sad, but that's also not a problem. That's just like an emotion.
01:03:52
Oscar
Yeah. You know what it was in like, dude, I swear last night we talked about like dreams kind of, but I was dream. I forget. Like, obviously I just forget completely what I was dreaming about, but I dreamed about something and I didn't like enjoy like what was happening or something like that.
01:04:10
Oscar
And i was conscious enough to know it was a dream and wake up in that. It was like the middle of the night, but I woke up in that moment, which made me think like, do we, yes, we do know we're dreaming, but we're like just fine with, we're most of the time we're just fine with it.
01:04:29
Oscar
don't know if that makes sense.
01:04:29
Wes MacMillan
I feel ah feel like I don't know most of the time when I'm dreaming.
01:04:37
Oscar
It was just a recognition that like, oh, like, i don't like what's going on. I'm just gonna end this and wake up. Well, that I actually didn't realize like, it was like, oh, I can do that.
01:04:37
Wes MacMillan
But I also...
01:04:43
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:04:48
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. But you got my wheels turning with like the what is a problem. Because it relates to the quote that it's like
01:04:56
Oscar
Yeah.
01:04:59
Wes MacMillan
like thinking is the root of all suffering it's like yeah what is a problem because it seems like our definition of a problem is like things could be different and it relates to the Michael Singer book it's like that's not a fucking problem
Desires and Internal Peace
01:05:19
Wes MacMillan
and it's like things just like are the way they are like we
01:05:23
Oscar
Yeah, the Buddha said desire. Desire is the root of all suffering.
01:05:28
Wes MacMillan
And things could always be different. You know what I mean?
01:05:32
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:05:34
Wes MacMillan
ah good example that I was talking to my uncle and it's like one business example is like the whole like mind for like, uh, mindset of like inventing ah new product is like solve a problem.
01:05:50
Wes MacMillan
And the invention, like the Roomba was like, saw like you having to vacuum your own house is like a problem.
01:05:59
Oscar
Yeah, it's terrible.
01:05:59
Wes MacMillan
And then put this robot that does it for you. Like, that's not a problem. Like you having to vacuum your own house. Like when like, you're going to have to do stuff you don't like in life.
01:06:16
Wes MacMillan
And like things could be,
01:06:16
Oscar
So how would you like rephrase it though? Like what is and it? What is the room? But like, it's, it is like, it's it's eliminating and in no it's because i was going to say It's eliminating an inconvenience, but it's not an inconvenience if you enjoy vacuuming or you you don't have the desire not to vacuum.
01:06:39
Oscar
No, no.
01:06:39
Wes MacMillan
definitely and but it's
01:06:41
Oscar
But you also like to have the desire to have a clean house. So that's like, I'm going to vacuum.
01:06:47
Wes MacMillan
I know and if you go down like the desire like living without desire it's not really there's a good word for it I don't think I'm gonna get it it's like it's not realistic I guess there's a better word but
01:07:06
Wes MacMillan
Like living without wanting anything, then would you just like stand still forever?
01:07:09
Oscar
It's not like plausible.
01:07:12
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Because like if you want nothing for the rest of your life, you'd probably just like sit down for the rest of your life. It's like, oh, I don't i don't want food.
01:07:25
Wes MacMillan
I'm not going to eat.
01:07:28
Oscar
Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:28
Wes MacMillan
And that's why it's been like so complicated.
01:07:34
Wes MacMillan
But the
01:07:35
Oscar
Yeah. Desire is normal.
01:07:38
Wes MacMillan
And they say and like attachment is the problem.
01:07:38
Oscar
But.
01:07:43
Oscar
yeah
01:07:47
Wes MacMillan
But yeah I think the whole problem and problem with our society, and this is like me assigning a problem that probably doesn't exist because it's like me saying things could be different and when the whole problem is like other people saying things could be different.
01:08:04
Wes MacMillan
Like your problems even exist.
01:08:09
Oscar
like what Yeah, right. Without humans existing, even if it just got all the way up to humans and or like gorillas and stopped there, there would be no problems.
01:08:21
Oscar
So it's humans. But...
01:08:27
Wes MacMillan
ah matt Yeah, the definition of a problem is A matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.
01:08:39
Wes MacMillan
So that's, yeah, if you relate it back to the living.
01:08:41
Oscar
i unwant Yeah, um unwanted is really the key.
01:08:42
Wes MacMillan
on
01:08:46
Wes MacMillan
It's like you see something you don't like and you change it or like you feel like it needs to be changed and the internal work would be like, why do I feel like that needs to be changed?
01:09:01
Wes MacMillan
Because, yeah, things could always be different.
01:09:10
Oscar
And I think, like, if you got to the point where Michael Singer is talking about where he constantly... actually liked how he talked about the heart. is i At least in the...
01:09:21
Oscar
A New Earth, which I read by Eckhart, he didn't really talk about, like, the heart too much.
01:09:24
Wes MacMillan
Hmm.
01:09:26
Oscar
And which and Michael Singer completely... you know, dove into it, which was interesting. And he even like he drew an illustration of like a pipe and it was like your whatever they're they're your Sam scratch or something like that.
01:09:40
Wes MacMillan
this car.
01:09:40
Oscar
You have blockages and yeah, some some screw. And like, if you're able to truly get rid of all the blockages, then all like your energy and your heart just flows kind of like, I guess the idea is just like out, like upwards through you and there's nothing, um, blocking it.
01:10:02
Oscar
But it was also like, you know, if you're in a relationship or you're attaching something, um like to your idea of love, then that's a blockage. That's going to direct the energy like outwards, like to the other person or like to whatever this thing is, that's making you feel like you're, you're in love. The blockage will kind of redirect it.
01:10:27
Oscar
And then the other blockage is just a blocks love entirely.
01:10:28
Wes MacMillan
I
01:10:30
Oscar
So that you can't even like experience it. But I thought that was interesting. Um, yeah.
01:10:37
Wes MacMillan
talked about that. I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't know if you were going like buy in that idea because it felt when I first read it, it felt a little like woo woo, but it's, I think it's very true.
01:10:49
Wes MacMillan
Tempted to say it's very true, true, but I won't. But I'm like, I've, cause he talks about it.
01:10:52
Oscar
isn
01:10:57
Wes MacMillan
It's like, if you feel an emotion and you can like truly like let yourself feel it, like he talks about how you literally have this burning sensation in your heart as the emotion is like processing.
01:11:09
Wes MacMillan
And I've felt that like multiple times and it's like very real. But it's like so hard. Like I was, I had a couple weeks where I was like, I was knocking out emotions left and right.
01:11:23
Wes MacMillan
And now i don't know what happened and my heart, I think it's closed again.
01:11:30
Oscar
Like the Grinch.
01:11:30
Wes MacMillan
And it could be, could be considered ah chakra.
01:11:32
Oscar
Yeah.
01:11:35
Wes MacMillan
I'm a, I'm kind of a believer in chakras and that's just like one, i think.
01:11:43
Wes MacMillan
And all those blockages and like samskara are like, they're all like emotions that you haven't let yourself process.
01:11:43
Oscar
yeah
01:11:51
Wes MacMillan
Because we tend to see like sadness, anger, fear, guilt, shame as like negative emotions. And we don't really let ourselves feel them. And they're just like clogging up our system.
01:12:01
Oscar
the
01:12:05
Wes MacMillan
Whereas if you let yourself like like process all those, I think you would feel like astronomically better.
01:12:14
Oscar
I mean, it seems as though like there's potential to just... live every moment of your life just, you know, and with yourself, like your, identity your, you know, your spirit just being like a great place to be.
01:12:31
Oscar
Like he talks about like the you in there, like the, whatever your, your awareness, like it's, there's potential to just have it always be good, like, or in a good place, no matter what.
01:12:44
Wes MacMillan
That's what i If I like had a belief on... Like, heaven an external. Like, heaven and hell has never made like any...
01:12:56
Wes MacMillan
it just never felt like right to me or like that could ever be an option that like you're on this for a hundred years.
01:12:59
Oscar
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:13:03
Wes MacMillan
And like, if you don't like do everything right, then you're in hell forever. That just like, it never sat right with me. But if based on like the book and like everything else I've learned in spirituality, it's like, if you can like feel good, like get yourself where it's like,
01:13:23
Wes MacMillan
your body feels like heaven, then you'll literally like, there's that song i sent you by it's on one of the weekend albums, but it's like an interlude with like Gary.
01:13:34
Oscar
Yeah, yeah.
01:13:36
Wes MacMillan
And it's like, you gotta be heaven to see heaven. And that's kind of what I believe, but it's so fucking complicated. Like I've been trying to do this spiritual shit for a couple years and I've made a lot of progress, but like, fuck.
01:13:49
Wes MacMillan
It is like wildly complicated. Especially because like. God is pay to play.
01:14:01
Oscar
Yeah. Like, you can see, like, even in people who, like, who, like, and people's eyes, like, have really, like, made it in life.
01:14:03
Wes MacMillan
Because I.
01:14:13
Oscar
Like, Trump is an obvious example. Like, he's accomplished a ton of shit. Like, he's he's been elected president twice. And, like, he you would think, like, how much left really is there for him to do on Earth?
01:14:20
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:14:25
Oscar
But he doesn't, like, you you don't look at Trump and you're like, oh, this guy is spiritually, like, he's always, like, ah doing awesome. He's always great. Like he's, there are things like externalities that affect him and you could see he's visibly like, you know, upset and he lets stuff get to him and stuff like that.
01:14:44
Oscar
And just like other, I'm sure there are so many examples of people like that who in, you know, their society's view, like the American dream, like they've, they've they've made it their career, their, whatever their life is a success.
01:14:57
Oscar
You know, they, they, they don't strike me as, you know, I don't know. Someone someone like like the ideal person we're describing, which is interesting.
01:15:09
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, it's completely different. Those people are like people who are really good at the game of life and spirituality is like...
01:15:15
Oscar
Yeah.
01:15:20
Oscar
Like they did, like they won Monopoly, essentially. Like you could come in last place in Monopoly and you could still be like, damn, that was like a fun time.
01:15:23
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:15:27
Oscar
That was a great game. Yeah.
01:15:30
Wes MacMillan
It's kind of like, yeah, it's like a game of Monopoly where it's like they they won, but life is really like... At least what I'm trying to be is like happy whether or not I'm winning or losing. Because then that's more in your control than the dice and like how the game plays out.
01:15:53
Wes MacMillan
You know what I mean?
01:15:53
Oscar
Yeah, definitely.
01:15:56
Wes MacMillan
One thing I heard recently ah that was like very very interesting to me. It's like the Bible is like... It's not like... ah set of rules it's some people consider it to be like a set of stories and it's like kind of like the goal of it was to be like a guide to spiritual enlightenment and there's been quotes of people saying like jesus didn't want you to be christian he wanted you to be like him and like go down the path he went down
01:16:29
Wes MacMillan
and
01:16:29
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:16:30
Wes MacMillan
no one does that. i I'm like, I'm not saying no one does that, but there's a lot of people who are Christians and they're like, these are the rules. Like, this is how I live my life. And I don't know if that's what Jesus intended, but I think Jesus and like Buddha, like those are the goats at like art at like what I'm trying to do, which feels weird, but like,
01:16:57
Wes MacMillan
the like he The way Jesus, and I honestly, i haven't read too much of his work, but he like he talks about like just like once you, like I think he cleared out damn near all his samskara and inner blockages, and he just felt so good.
01:17:13
Wes MacMillan
And he legit, he's like, I want to help other people like feel good.
01:17:16
Oscar
a
01:17:19
Wes MacMillan
And I feel like it was just a little misinterpreted. I feel like almost no one sees the Bible as like a book to spiritual enlightenment. Because you like enlightenment's the goal of Buddhism.
01:17:32
Oscar
That's the thing. I was... um
01:17:35
Oscar
I didn't know what to expect going into like Eckhart Tolle, the new earth. I knew it was about spirituality, spiritual enlightenment, enlightenment, whatever.
01:17:46
Oscar
Then like, I would say like Jesus was like um the most like quoted person in the whole book. I was like, damn, like Jesus Christ.
01:17:55
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:17:56
Oscar
Like he, that guy's like,
01:17:57
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:18:00
Oscar
Like that's, that's Jesus. But, um, I didn't know he was spitting like that.
01:18:03
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:18:06
Oscar
Another person I'd put in that realm is Shakespeare. Did not know Shakespeare had it like that. Um, if he even existed, I know there are conspiracies. Um,
01:18:18
Oscar
But yeah, Jesus and Shakespeare quotes popping up all over the book.
01:18:19
Wes MacMillan
yeah
01:18:22
Oscar
Like Michael Singer quotes Jesus and, you know, he talks about like, I didn't know like yoga, yogic. That's like, that was a, that was a people, but that was interesting too.
01:18:36
Wes MacMillan
And the funny, I don't know if it's funny, interesting, whatever, but I have like a friend who's very spiritual. And he's like, if something came up, but he was like, you don't want to be Jesus, do you? And I'm like, he's kind of the goat.
01:18:52
Wes MacMillan
Like, if you're truly a spiritual person, him and like the Buddha, Like we, and talk about like, you literally measure time based on when Jesus was born.
01:18:59
Oscar
ah Yeah. yeah
01:19:05
Wes MacMillan
It's before Christ and after Christ. Like, and it's like, but you don't want to be and you.
01:19:09
Oscar
That is
01:19:11
Wes MacMillan
know I'm like, he is talk about legacy talk. And like he said, he felt better than like, It seemed like so real and like, think about the impact he had. I don't think that would have happened if he was like faking it.
01:19:25
Wes MacMillan
Like this dude figured out some shit and he felt amazing. But like in today's world, it's like, but you don't want do that. Do you like, wouldn't you rather be like Trump, like president, successful businessman? It's like, I'd rather be Jesus.
01:19:44
Wes MacMillan
It's a little scary.
01:19:46
Oscar
ah Like, if you were to ask, like, you know, someone who's like, I don't know, like Hindu or whatever, just a random religion, like, oh, what year is it?
01:19:57
Oscar
Like, bang, like, that's a mic drop for Jesus 2025.
01:20:03
Wes MacMillan
One point Jesus.
01:20:03
Oscar
Like, you they can't avoid that. But, ah you know, of course, all religions are great, but...
01:20:10
Wes MacMillan
i
01:20:14
Oscar
That is interesting that I never thought about that legacy. Braun could never get up.
01:20:18
Wes MacMillan
and
01:20:21
Wes MacMillan
Another thing I heard was like, and think it was who, who was it? Fuck. I think it was like Nietzsche. It was one of the bigger philosophers. It was like, i'm I'm scared for like the world with religion and like without religion.
01:20:32
Oscar
Yeah.
01:20:40
Wes MacMillan
Because like Christianity, that they were like, I'm right. If you don't believe in Jesus, like get the fuck out. And they, I feel like Jesus wouldn't have supported what they did.
01:20:51
Wes MacMillan
You know what I mean
01:20:54
Oscar
Yeah.
01:20:55
Wes MacMillan
Because they literally were like, if you're not Christian, get the fuck out. And like Jesus was all about like love, love everyone. Like that dude was, Jesus was washing.
01:21:04
Oscar
Yeah. He would never say something like that. I don't know know him, but that doesn't sound like something Jesus would say. If I know my guy. Yeah.
01:21:16
Oscar
that
01:21:17
Wes MacMillan
And i he was literally like washing other people's feet. Like this dude had no ego.
01:21:25
Oscar
Yeah. yeah he
01:21:28
Wes MacMillan
He was,
01:21:29
Oscar
He was one of the boys. Yeah.
01:21:31
Wes MacMillan
He was literally all love and forgiveness. And other people are like, we love Jesus so much that if you don't rock with him, get the fuck out.
01:21:43
Oscar
yeah
01:21:46
Oscar
To this day.
01:21:48
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:21:48
Oscar
this day. You know, people... Christians like will be like, oh, you're not my religion. Like, I don't like that. I'm therefore going to like, you know, dislike you to some extent, just because you're not like agreeing with what I believe.
01:22:04
Oscar
I'm going to like dislike you or I'm going you know, make you make sure that we're separated. We're different. And definitely wasn't Jesus's intention.
01:22:17
Wes MacMillan
One of my teachers, he used to be, he grew up like a Jehovah's witness and he played this video of a Jehovah's witness.
01:22:21
Oscar
Yeah.
01:22:24
Wes MacMillan
And like someone in the church, like touched his daughter and like the daughter took him that like priest guy or elder to court one.
01:22:36
Wes MacMillan
And this dude like stopped talking to his daughter because she was like kicked out of Jehovah's witness. And he was like, I'm team Jehovah.
01:22:44
Oscar
yeah Really?
01:22:48
Wes MacMillan
Like it's so, it's so
01:22:51
Oscar
Yeah, tough look for the Jehovah's.
01:22:58
Wes MacMillan
It's so complicated, but it's it's... A part of me is like, how did we get here? You know what I mean?
01:23:09
Oscar
yeah
01:23:09
Wes MacMillan
Like to take the most loving dude ever and just do such like hateful things, basically like with his name as your intention.
01:23:20
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:23:23
Wes MacMillan
And it's not like, I mean, I don't, Jesus jesus Buddha seven game series, i don't know. But like ah part of Jesus' like legacy is that people like, we're like, if you don't rock with them, like we're going to war.
01:23:43
Wes MacMillan
And that's like a big part of like why we measure time. It wasn't like everyone universally agreed. The Christians were like, this is how it's going to be. And we have guns.
01:23:54
Oscar
Yeah. Yes, exactly.
01:23:58
Wes MacMillan
And I don't want to rag on all the Christians.
01:23:59
Oscar
Yeah.
01:24:01
Wes MacMillan
Like there's definitely been people in other religions who have done some heinous shit in the name of religion, like Boston bombing. boston bombing
01:24:10
Oscar
Right. Right.
01:24:12
Wes MacMillan
and Jesus.
01:24:13
Oscar
No, it's all encapsulating. every everyone Everyone's hands are dirty.
01:24:21
Oscar
and
01:24:22
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. like
01:24:27
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. i just, I'm sure it makes sense in some way, but just like, like he was all about love and don't know.
01:24:40
Wes MacMillan
like crashing planes into buildings isn while people are in them and there's people in the plane.
01:24:48
Oscar
Yeah.
01:24:50
Oscar
Yeah. It's sad. But, um, don't know. I wanted to ask.
01:24:57
Wes MacMillan
mr um are you go
01:25:00
Oscar
ah let's see.
01:25:06
Oscar
Oh, what was the place where the woman told you you were goaded?
Books and Spiritual Insights
01:25:12
Oscar
They had this book displayed or the predecessor to this book.
01:25:17
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, and if anyone is listening and wants to like, is interested in the spiritual stuff, the book, um you could probably,
01:25:24
Oscar
and well
01:25:27
Oscar
promotion not getting paid for that
01:25:29
Wes MacMillan
Living Untethered by Michael Singer.
01:25:34
Wes MacMillan
i'd start there. Or you should honestly read the prequel, um The Untethered Soul. And it's, I'm not going to lie. Like if you read this book, you will never be the same.
01:25:46
Wes MacMillan
At least I was never the same. Like you'll never look at life the same.
01:25:50
Oscar
which one the one I just read ah the next one
01:25:54
Wes MacMillan
Kind of both.
01:25:56
Oscar
Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:59
Wes MacMillan
And a big part of it.
01:26:02
Wes MacMillan
were we talking about right before that?
01:26:05
Oscar
The place where the woman said you were goaded.
01:26:08
Wes MacMillan
Oh yeah, I went to a psychic and i'd never been psychic.
01:26:13
Oscar
Wait, what are the chances, though, that she says everyone's goaded?
01:26:18
Wes MacMillan
I have no idea.
01:26:19
Oscar
<unk> Not to rain on your parade, but...
01:26:22
Wes MacMillan
No, but it, I walked in there and I, it was like, I think it was the, the deal was like $2 per minute. And I think a lot of people like 30 minutes, I was like, I want to do five minutes.
01:26:36
Wes MacMillan
And she was clearly like a little annoyed at that because I would only be paying like 10 bucks.
01:26:42
Oscar
it's kind of expensive, though.
01:26:42
Wes MacMillan
But,
01:26:43
Oscar
Yeah.
01:26:46
Wes MacMillan
but like, I feel like you can tell me a lot in five minutes and 10 bucks really ain't shit.
01:26:51
Oscar
Yeah, yeah, yes, agree.
01:26:53
Wes MacMillan
I sat down and she was like, what's up? And I was like, I don't, I don't know. I've never done this before.
01:26:58
Oscar
Get to it, lady. Yeah.
01:27:00
Wes MacMillan
yeah Like, can she's like, what do you want to know? i was like, I don't know. Like my future. And she like, it was like, your future is just created by like the present moment and like how you think.
01:27:13
Wes MacMillan
And I was like, honestly, I agree with that. And then like after that moment, it was like, we both kind of agreed. And I was like, I don't know. So yeah, I don't really know why I'm here. I just thought it would be cool.
01:27:26
Wes MacMillan
And then she did like some cards and we ended up talking for five minutes and she did. i picked the cards and she, she kind of hit the, like she didn't, she knew me for less than five minutes.
01:27:41
Wes MacMillan
And she said one, like you're like, I can tell you're a very overly cautious person, which is true.
01:27:41
Oscar
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:27:49
Wes MacMillan
And then it also, She was like, did you break up with someone? And I was like, yeah. And like, that was just like, I was giving her nothing. And like, I am a overly cautious person. I walk in, I'm like, let's see what this is about.
01:28:05
Wes MacMillan
And she told me, I really didn't give her much. And she like sensed those things pretty quickly, which I thought was pretty cool. And she's also like this.
01:28:12
Oscar
Yeah.
01:28:13
Wes MacMillan
And then, and then she's like, So it was something we got to like, somehow she's like, you, you wonder about the meaning of life, don't you? And I was like, who is this lady?
01:28:24
Oscar
and
01:28:25
Wes MacMillan
so i was like, yeah.
01:28:25
Oscar
She said that I'm prompted.
01:28:30
Wes MacMillan
I think like something like hinted at it, but like, it was definitely a stretch. And once again, hammer on nail for like the third time.
01:28:39
Oscar
Yeah, yeah, respect.
01:28:40
Wes MacMillan
And I was like, yeah. How the fuck did you know that lady But she, and then she's like, well, what, what do you think it is? I was like, I don't know. I think we're the universe experiencing itself.
01:28:52
Wes MacMillan
And that's when she was like, she looked at me different after I said that she was like, don't I think she thought I was like some punk kid when I walked in. And then she was nah, this, this kid's a real deal.
01:29:01
Oscar
Yeah. Fire. Right.
01:29:07
Wes MacMillan
as um and Like I was only in there for like five, 10 minutes. And as I was leaving, she was like, I think you're like going to do great things on this planet. And was like, someone else had already told me, like, obviously a great thing here who wouldn't want to hear that.
01:29:23
Oscar
Yeah.
01:29:23
Wes MacMillan
And I was like, I was looking for more like practical advice, but she was like, she was like, you're going to meet people on your journey.
01:29:28
Oscar
Yeah.
01:29:31
Wes MacMillan
Just like trust the process, which I like, I was like, fuck, fuck that. Fuck you. But it's also like, I feel like that is the answer. yeah.
01:29:42
Oscar
Yeah.
01:29:44
Wes MacMillan
I also had this meditation teacher that my grandma, my grandma had like a meditation teacher back in the day. And he got me a meditation teacher.
01:29:55
Wes MacMillan
and like, we worked together for like a couple hours. And she's like, there's like very few people that are like on this path, like as young as you are.
01:30:06
Wes MacMillan
And that's what I think it is more than like, you're gonna do great things.
01:30:06
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:30:09
Wes MacMillan
It's just like, you're starting early and you have like the potential to do great things.
01:30:13
Oscar
Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:16
Wes MacMillan
Cause when you start early, you kind of have the potential to go farther.
01:30:22
Oscar
Definitely.
01:30:26
Wes MacMillan
But the best best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
01:30:26
Oscar
Yeah.
01:30:29
Wes MacMillan
Second best time is right now.
01:30:33
Oscar
That's a bar.
01:30:38
Wes MacMillan
And yeah, fuck it. Let's get into it. The one of the, um my my biggest takeaway from the Michael Singer book was like, the can we do the thought experiment to just answer the questions that I ask you?
01:30:52
Wes MacMillan
They're basic. And it does it in the book. So i was like, if I say, who are you, what would you say?
01:30:58
Oscar
Oscar.
01:31:00
Wes MacMillan
And then Michael Singer would be like, no, that's your name. Who are you?
01:31:07
Oscar
um
01:31:11
Oscar
You know, senior at a UMass Amherst finance student, 22 years old.
01:31:17
Wes MacMillan
And Michael Singer would say, no, that's your age, your major, and where you go to school. Who are you?
01:31:26
Oscar
Then would be like but guy a good guy who tried his best.
01:31:40
Wes MacMillan
And even then, even then he would say like that one thing you think about yourself and the outcome you perceive like, and it boils down to like,
01:31:41
Oscar
but
01:31:54
Wes MacMillan
you are legit like you're not your body and another way he illustrates this point like a lot of us we get so caught up in the fact that like thinking like we're just our bodies but like this hand is a part of my body if i cut off my hand am i still who i am yeah
01:32:11
Oscar
You're still entirely you, 100%. That
01:32:14
Wes MacMillan
and i could cut off my arms my legs um my pecker and i would still i would still be me so it's like
01:32:24
Oscar
that would be tough. That would be like 99%.
01:32:30
Wes MacMillan
you'd be like are you still you i'd be like barely
01:32:35
Wes MacMillan
mother
01:32:37
Oscar
Yeah.
01:32:38
Wes MacMillan
must Another point he makes is like, and I do this, I kind of stopped doing it. But when I was reading the book, I did this for like two weeks straight. Like I'd go every time I go to my bathroom and I'm washing my hands, when I do wash my hands and I'm being a good boy, I'd look in the mirror and I'd be like, he says to do this. He's like, are you in there?
01:32:59
Wes MacMillan
And the kind of instinct is like, yeah. So it's like, you're not your body, you're in your body. And like we were saying before, it's like, you're not your name.
01:33:06
Oscar
yeah
01:33:08
Wes MacMillan
You're not like anything external. You're literally like the awareness of your emotions.
01:33:18
Wes MacMillan
You're like the awareness of your emotions, like the witness of your thoughts.
01:33:18
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:33:23
Wes MacMillan
And then, it's kind of like you're playing this game, like, and then you're also aware of the external world, which is like a lot of things, but it boils down to like those three things.
01:33:36
Wes MacMillan
And that's like all you are.
01:33:41
Wes MacMillan
And that combined with like, I'm made out of the same stuff of this mug. I'm not in the universe. I am the universe. It's like, i it's just so clear to me with those two points that I, I am the universe.
Impermanence and Life's Meaning
01:33:54
Wes MacMillan
like experiencing itself. I'm just like aware of the universe.
01:34:03
Oscar
Yeah, human awareness.
01:34:06
Wes MacMillan
And something that really ruffles my feathers is like, he's because technically it's like, nothing could be bad really, unless you perceive it to be bad.
01:34:22
Wes MacMillan
like you're aware of sadness. You're not like, say you get like punched in the arm. It's like, you're just aware of that. It's not even really like that happened to you because you're not your body, which is a nice thought, but it also like, it hurts when you get punched in the arm. That's kind of the balance I struggle with.
01:34:47
Oscar
Yeah.
01:34:53
Oscar
I guess like, yeah.
01:34:58
Wes MacMillan
Cause at times.
01:34:58
Oscar
But even if you got your arm like sawed off with a chainsaw, like it would hurt in the moment.
01:34:58
Wes MacMillan
like
01:35:03
Oscar
But eventually with some healing, like you get back to a place where you're not in any physical pain at all.
01:35:11
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. And one of his points is like, And again, it's it's kind of like tab it's kind of a taboo attitude for like the society we live in. But it's like, if you fully just like let go and like lived in the present moment, even if like you were like getting in a car crash, like that would be and incredible, like can very amazing experience.
01:35:22
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:35:36
Wes MacMillan
But the reason you're like, that sucked is because like my car is fucked. And like, this is going to wreck my day.
01:35:47
Wes MacMillan
And that's why want some, I wanted to talk to you about is like the concept of like ownership. It's like a lot of, um, you know, this happens to me. I don't know if it happens to you, but like, I'll wear a shirt for a while and then I get kind of like sick of it.
01:36:03
Wes MacMillan
And I'm like, I need a new shirt.
01:36:06
Oscar
Yeah, sure.
01:36:07
Wes MacMillan
It's like, and I, I like, I consider this my shirt, but it's, Like I handed a dude, actually caught this at a hockey game, so it's not a good example, but my other shirts, like I handed a dude or a woman a piece of paper and they gave me the shirt.
01:36:17
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:36:22
Wes MacMillan
Like, do I really own the shirt?
01:36:23
Oscar
Mm-hmm.
01:36:24
Wes MacMillan
And it's the same thing with like your house. Like you gave someone some paper or you wired them some thing that's the equivalent of paper,
01:36:36
Wes MacMillan
And like, they're letting you live there, but it's like, you don't, do you own that? Do you even like own your body are you just in your body? And the, one of the best examples is like your lawn, like you can give someone some paper and they give you like a plot of land and they're like, by law, that is your land. It's like, is that really your land?
01:36:58
Wes MacMillan
no
01:37:01
Oscar
Because you can give someone your kidney.
01:37:01
Wes MacMillan
And it's easy.
01:37:06
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:37:08
Oscar
So do you really?
01:37:08
Wes MacMillan
That showed really your kidney.
01:37:09
Oscar
You definitely don't own it. Yeah.
01:37:12
Wes MacMillan
Like you're just using that thing. It doesn't really mean it's yours. And the reason this is so, feel like I'm talking like Trump with my hand gestures, but the reason that's so important is because like,
01:37:21
Oscar
Yeah.
01:37:26
Wes MacMillan
If you get in a car accident and it's not your car, like you would be like, damn, that was like a kind of a cool experience as long as you're okay. And also if like someone like throw, like you're walking down the street and someone like throws mustard at you and it goes all over your shirt.
01:37:43
Wes MacMillan
Like if it, if you were just like, this is a shirt that I have on, like I could just take it off or it kind of looks cool with the mustard on it.
01:37:43
Oscar
Yeah.
01:37:51
Wes MacMillan
Like that would be like a kind of a cool experience. But instead you're like, oh man, my shirt is ruined. It's like, if you didn't think that was your shirt, you wouldn't be happy right now.
01:38:01
Oscar
Yeah, it definitely and it intensifies the, you know, the resistance to to to reality.
01:38:11
Oscar
Definitely.
01:38:11
Wes MacMillan
A hundred percent.
01:38:13
Wes MacMillan
And that it's like, it kind of like makes you feel like everything is about you. Like, this is my shirt. This is my mug. Like I, the other, a couple, like about a month ago, I dropped my mug and I was like devastated.
01:38:27
Wes MacMillan
was like, that's a fucking mug. But like
01:38:31
Oscar
Yeah, think right.
01:38:31
Wes MacMillan
yeah just like, neighbour mu that I was sad because that was my favorite mug.
01:38:34
Oscar
Right.
01:38:38
Wes MacMillan
But like,
01:38:41
Wes MacMillan
If that wasn't my mug and it dropped, i would have been like, whoa, that was kind of cool. And like, if you,
01:38:45
Oscar
I think that like yeah.
01:38:51
Wes MacMillan
if you never like assigned ownership to like anything, everything would just be pretty cool.
01:39:04
Wes MacMillan
And where it gets a little tricky and debatable is like, would you say like this, like, is this my body?
01:39:15
Oscar
No, I think that like any like ownership ownership true ownership is something that You can take with you when you die And like, there's ah like, don't know, obviously know what the chances are, but there's a chance that maybe you can take your awareness with you when you die.
01:39:35
Oscar
Like even like your physical body, like you aren't bringing that like to the afterlife. Like it's just, you know, it's chilling in the grave and like, obviously your possessions.
01:39:44
Wes MacMillan
But awareness,
01:39:47
Wes MacMillan
awareness isn't something you have. It's legit like what you are.
01:39:54
Wes MacMillan
It's not something you take with you. It's you.
01:40:04
Wes MacMillan
And even like when and I was looking in the mirror, it's like you in there.
01:40:04
Oscar
Yeah.
01:40:07
Wes MacMillan
And then I always kind of like smile and like, yeah, it's like, I'm not the body. Like this body isn't mine. Like yeah I'm just in it. i'm yeah I'm using it right now.
01:40:20
Wes MacMillan
And that's why, like, if you look in the mirror, like then what you would care way less if you were a little chubby, if you were like, oh, I hate my body. Like, or you could be like, oh, the body I'm in is a little chubby.
01:40:32
Wes MacMillan
Who gives a fuck? Cause it's like, it's, it doesn't, I don't have to think about it in my body.
01:40:33
Oscar
That's a good point. That's a very good point.
01:40:38
Wes MacMillan
Nothing is really like mine. Like I, I'm just like, you're using stuff sometimes. And even like with something like love, it's like, I don't think you can really take anything with you. Like, that's just like clinging. That's like attachment.
01:40:54
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Like shit just like happens and it can be amazing, but it, it goes.
01:40:54
Oscar
Yeah.
01:40:59
Wes MacMillan
And that's kind of what makes it beautiful. That sounds like a little, i don't know, soft, but like by definition, like, like debt, I don't, I don't think I have to go that far, but it's like,
01:41:06
Oscar
Thanks.
01:41:20
Wes MacMillan
If you, I'm going to go that far. Death is like what gives life meaning because like if you never died, like you could just lay in bed and be like, I'll do shit tomorrow. But the very fact that you have limited time is what gives our time value.
01:41:37
Oscar
But you're the one who sent me like Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about that. And like, you know, like the, you said, like the only reason anyone ever cares about, like when you give someone flowers, the only reason they're worth anything is because one day, like soon they're going to wilt away and they're going to die.
01:41:43
Wes MacMillan
Probably.
01:41:56
Oscar
Like if, if you give someone a flower and just like a plastic flower that lasts forever, there's no value in that. There's no beauty in that. But if you give someone a rose, that is that it's like peak, like,
01:42:07
Oscar
you know like oh this is so cool ah like there's a beautiful rose you know two weeks in two weeks it's just gonna look like shit and that was kind of like a metaphor for like exactly what you said like death is what gives life its meaning like no one wants to live forever you would never ever want to live forever because there would be no there would be no life
01:42:15
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:42:29
Wes MacMillan
And we, and it's, easy again, easier said than done, but I feel like all we do is like try to like come up with this perfect society and try to like,
01:42:42
Wes MacMillan
Like if you gave me a flower and I loved it, I'd like try to keep it alive as long as I can, which is like not really the problem, but like I'm probably going to be devastated because inevitably it's going to die.
01:42:55
Wes MacMillan
Whereas like if you remember like that everything is temporary, like you'll be a little less like disappointed.
01:43:06
Oscar
Yeah, truly everything is temporary.
01:43:10
Wes MacMillan
And my friend, my friend, he graduated JMU with me. He's like, I like my job, but I don't know if I can do this forever. It's like, you're not going to be alive forever.
01:43:22
Oscar
Yeah, right. That's not an option.
01:43:26
Wes MacMillan
And yeah it's like, even...
01:43:27
Oscar
And no one genuinely like no one is like that's just like I guess in in that case, it's like expectations that you're setting either for yourself or like other people are setting expectations for that person where he feels like any sort of like,
01:43:45
Oscar
I don't ever want to be in a situation in life where I feel like I even need to be at a job for like a year. Like I want to be able to feel like I can leave this job.
01:43:56
Oscar
it gets different when you have a family and like you have kids to support, but like, you know, you can leave a job if it's truly affecting your internal like self, like you can walk away and you can know, like Tony said, like, like don't let anyone ever tell you that you don't have options.
01:44:16
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Another thing is like, you got like limited time on this earth.
01:44:26
Wes MacMillan
I think this is from Goodwill hunting where, you probably, you know, the movie I'm assuming, but like, well, well, it's like so scared of like committing to anything.
01:44:33
Oscar
Yeah.
01:44:38
Wes MacMillan
Cause he doesn't want to get hurt. And then, um robin williams the therapist think his name's like sean sean's like like what's the matter with you you're so scared of everything if you're scared of everything forever you're not gonna like you're not you're not gonna live life and then will's like what do you know like your wife's dead he's like at least i played a hand which is like the scene's a little bit better than that but like
01:44:46
Oscar
yeah
01:45:06
Oscar
true
01:45:08
Wes MacMillan
Everyone you know and love is like gonna die. and also...
01:45:12
Oscar
that's ultimately what like in the or whatever the scene is where like him and his girlfriend get in that big fight and then like sort of split up like that is driven by his you know lack of willingness to commit to her willingness to like be vulnerable and his like clearly like he's in love with her he feels like emotions and she's the difference is just like she's Not, ah you know, scared.
01:45:39
Oscar
she's not She's willing to be vulnerable with him.
01:45:40
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:45:41
Oscar
She's willing to let like her heart be broken over him. If it means that he knows that she loves her. But he's like... and but Obviously, he talks... so He opens up about his background and everything.
01:45:54
Oscar
like The reason he's not willing to... Like that whole situation happens because he just can't like be vulnerable and it's programmed him in him not to be. It's a reason he doesn't like, it's a movie obviously, but it's deep. Like it's the reason he doesn't have like, he's an Einstein and he doesn't have like a top paying job.
01:46:14
Oscar
But he he doesn't want to be vulnerable. He doesn't want to let people tell him that he can't like, that he's not smart enough. He knows how smart he is. So he'll just do that. He'll be a janitor.
01:46:25
Wes MacMillan
You were talking about Will's willingness, which I thought was funny. But um also, like, this ties together so fucking beautifully.
01:46:30
Oscar
Yes.
01:46:34
Wes MacMillan
Like, we were just talking about, like, keeping your heart open. And, like, that's kind of what life's all about. It's like, you're going to get hurt, but do you want to live? Because if, like, if you're, like, playing, if you, like,
01:46:52
Wes MacMillan
If you're too a like too afraid of getting hurt, you're not going to experience anything.
01:47:00
Oscar
Yeah. Yes.
01:47:02
Wes MacMillan
And it ties back to the real pain too, where it's like, if you're too afraid of like people not liking you, no one is going to know you.
01:47:02
Oscar
Yeah.
01:47:14
Oscar
yeah
01:47:17
Wes MacMillan
You got to be like willing. like Pain is a part of life essentially. And you gotta to be like everyone when they get their heart broken like even go through a breakup. It's like, I don't know how I'm ever going to do that again. And I, I've been there and like, it's, and it's easier said than done, but it's like,
01:47:44
Wes MacMillan
are you going to like closed off for the rest of your life? Is that your plan?
01:47:49
Oscar
Right.
01:47:50
Wes MacMillan
Shit plan.
01:47:58
Wes MacMillan
There's definitely a good quote that talks about what we're talking about.
01:48:19
Wes MacMillan
There is one, I can feel it.
01:48:22
Oscar
Thanks.
01:48:34
Wes MacMillan
I don't know.
01:48:42
Wes MacMillan
There's one that's like to get something you never got, you got to do something you've never done that doesn't really fit.
01:48:50
Wes MacMillan
Exactly.
01:48:54
Oscar
I like the quote about like everything like worth having in life is on the other side of fear.
01:49:02
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, that's probably that's a great one. And that kind of exact,
01:49:04
Oscar
And this is a great one. I honestly never thought of Good Will Hunting that like, but like that is essentially what the movie is about. Like it applies to both his love life and his professional life or just like his, his work life, whatever.
01:49:22
Wes MacMillan
and it, I literally just did a class project on that, which was, I was really like, like the first time where i was doing a project in school where I was like, genuinely like, this is cool.
01:49:22
Oscar
Damn good movie.
01:49:35
Wes MacMillan
But like we did a case study of him and like he was an orphan. He got cigs put out on him when he was a kid. Like he's obviously he's and he his parents abandoned him.
01:49:41
Oscar
Right.
01:49:46
Wes MacMillan
Like it makes so much sense why he's afraid to like trust people and he's afraid to like get hurt. because he got hurt really bad. But if you're not willing to get hurt, you're going to get nothing.
01:50:00
Wes MacMillan
And like you said, it applies to his career.
01:50:00
Oscar
Yeah.
01:50:02
Wes MacMillan
He's a genius. And yet he's working in construction and he he meets probably the love of his life.
01:50:06
Oscar
Yeah.
01:50:10
Wes MacMillan
And he walks away. Cause he's like, she's like,
01:50:12
Oscar
I don't want to get hurt.
01:50:16
Wes MacMillan
and you got to get past that, which again, easier said than done, but like, Yeah, I think everything worthwhile in life is on the other side of fear is pretty much...
01:50:31
Wes MacMillan
That's what it boils down to. You gotta... If you can't you can't push past fear...
01:50:34
Oscar
Definitely true.
Mindfulness and Living in the Moment
01:50:39
Wes MacMillan
Steve Harvey is a quote, and I think I misquote it, but I kind of like my altered version better. It's like, if you never leave your comfort zone, that's where you will die.
01:50:47
Oscar
Rocks.
01:50:49
Wes MacMillan
And also... Very important. If you never leave your comfort zone, it just keeps getting smaller and smaller until you're afraid to like go outside.
01:51:04
Wes MacMillan
Is that what you want?
01:51:11
Wes MacMillan
real And it's definitely something I've talked about a lot on this pod, but it's like facing your fear
01:51:22
Wes MacMillan
It's everything.
01:51:25
Oscar
Yeah, it's important. I hope the listeners catch on.
01:51:31
Wes MacMillan
There, one, one of my episodes,
01:51:32
Oscar
You could really change some lives.
01:51:36
Wes MacMillan
that is kind of the message. And I think it was one of my, one of the first couple episodes, it was literally called like fear is my biggest op. And I got like some,
01:51:43
Oscar
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:51:45
Wes MacMillan
Henry Rome from camp, he texted me. He's like, dude, that was that was fucking awesome. And that's what I talked about like the whole time in that pod.
01:51:54
Oscar
I
01:51:55
Wes MacMillan
And one thing I like is like it doesn't need to like help... If this like thing just like helps a couple kids from camp, then like fuck it. like That's still meaningful.
01:52:05
Oscar
i agree.
01:52:09
Oscar
Find your best.
01:52:12
Wes MacMillan
it does Yeah, it doesn't need to be like some... Like, it's essentially, it's mission already accomplished. Because, like, if it if it helped anyone, it's worthwhile. And I like doing it. I had a blast having this conversation.
01:52:27
Oscar
Me as well. going to walk away from this feeling like, I don't know, a little bit more enlightened.
01:52:35
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. One thing, one thing I'd like to talk, and especially with this spiritual shit, it is 100%,
01:52:36
Oscar
Just one step forward.
01:52:45
Wes MacMillan
Three steps forward, two steps back is what it feels like sometimes. But you are making progress. And I remember your texting is probably a couple of weeks ago where it's like you get to the point where you feel just like incredibly in the moment and you feel almost like.
01:53:02
Wes MacMillan
All right.
01:53:03
Oscar
Yeah, when you get that, like, like a natural high that lasts, like, a couple hours.
01:53:07
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:53:11
Wes MacMillan
And I never used to have.
01:53:12
Oscar
Definitely get that.
01:53:13
Wes MacMillan
And that is huge progress.
01:53:16
Oscar
It was, like, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
01:53:24
Wes MacMillan
And one thing for the listeners, we're not being incredibly specific, but like sometimes I'll just like be walking home from class and like... Sometimes you're walking home from class and you're like thinking about like what you got to do and what you're going have for dinner and what you...
01:53:41
Wes MacMillan
um if you have any homework but sometimes i walk home from class and there's some like nice architecture and I wonder if that plays a factor but sometimes I'm just like I'm completely in the moment I'm just like walking and looking at buildings and like in awe at buildings which sounds like crazy in today's world but like Maybe today's world is crazy because like walk, like I got genuinely, I'm walking home, looking at buildings and I'm like a hundred percent content because everything's made of like fucking stardust.
01:54:15
Wes MacMillan
Like that's amazing.
01:54:16
Oscar
Right. Definitely.
01:54:18
Wes MacMillan
And I think like being in the moment, this is not an original idea at all. Eckhart Tolle, like this is his shit. But like the power of now, like the best thing you can hope for and debatably heaven is just being in the moment all the time.
01:54:44
Wes MacMillan
And Jesus taught, I really hope it's true.
01:54:45
Oscar
yeah
01:54:47
Wes MacMillan
It's kind of hard to believe believe for me a little bit that it's like, they say like you can feel better than any drug could make you feel.
01:54:58
Wes MacMillan
And you could feel like that all the time.
01:55:01
Oscar
Wait, where did you, is what was going ask. Where do you read about my, I told some other kids this, but I was like, I don't really. Someone just told me that Matthew McConaughey, like stopped doing all drugs because he said he like, didn't want to disturb how good he felt naturally.
01:55:15
Wes MacMillan
It was in it. Yeah, it was in it. He's like, I like my own company so much now.
01:55:17
Oscar
and
01:55:18
Wes MacMillan
I don't want to alter it.
01:55:18
Oscar
In his book?
01:55:20
Wes MacMillan
It's in his book, Green Lights. I've listened to it twice. It's a fantastic book.
01:55:26
Oscar
I gotta listen to that. Or read it.
01:55:30
Wes MacMillan
Man, he's one of my, yeah, I've said this to you before, but if I had to pick an idol, he's probably, he's up there. But yeah, like, and I think Jesus and Buddha, like, got pretty far down this path where it's like, they felt,
01:55:48
Wes MacMillan
like all the time better than any like drug or alcohol could make them feel. And so like we, so many people in America like work all week just to like drink on the weekend with their friends.
01:56:00
Wes MacMillan
You could feel like that all the time, but yet it's like, Oh, you don't want to go down that path.
01:56:02
Oscar
Definitely.
01:56:05
Wes MacMillan
Do you? It's like, what the fuck? Like, why wouldn't I?
01:56:11
Oscar
I, yeah, 100% agree.
01:56:12
Wes MacMillan
Like, why wouldn't but all the time?
01:56:20
Oscar
It's normal to be excited to drink and whatever. Drinking is fun. But like if you're like sitting in work on a Tuesday, like, oh, like I just can't wait until these next like three days of time are over so that I can hit the bar at five o'clock on a Friday. Something's wrong.
01:56:39
Oscar
Something is wrong. You got to fix that.
01:56:41
Wes MacMillan
You're a like, you're wishing away your life. Like you're, you're like, basically like, I hope that I wish the next three days, like go by quick.
01:56:53
Wes MacMillan
And like, basically you'd probably like, if you're in that position, you'd probably be like, I wish I could just fast forward. And it's like that you're fast forward through your life.
01:57:00
Oscar
Yeah.
01:57:02
Wes MacMillan
And there's a movie click by Adam Sandler. It's kind of like a children's movie.
01:57:05
Oscar
I've seen Click. Yeah.
01:57:07
Wes MacMillan
But it it made me sob when he was, he's like in the rain and like his family, he like he's in the rain. He's like sick. He you like made, he's offered this remote where he can like fast forward time.
01:57:20
Oscar
Hmm.
01:57:21
Wes MacMillan
This is fucking awesome. And then he basically fast forward his whole life. And then his family like, Like he kind of loses his family because he sees them as like a distraction from like his he's always going to work to get this promotion that he thinks will make him happy.
01:57:35
Oscar
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:57:39
Wes MacMillan
But it's like what's happy is your family and like what's right in front of you and you're wasting
01:57:51
Oscar
It's true. ah Yeah. One of the three pillars that Eckhart talked about, or was like enthusiasm, joy, and acceptance. But like, just like having general, like enthusiasm about your life, whatever, like it may be like, Oh, like,
01:58:09
Oscar
like say you're sitting in work on that Tuesday, like instead of like praying that the week goes by fast so you can drink, like maybe think like, Oh, like, i don't know. I, what am I doing? Like you get out of work at some point. So that Tuesday night, like, what are you going to do?
01:58:25
Oscar
you going to watch a movie? Are you going to like get dinner with someone? Are you going to like, you know, get some work done that you had been like, that you want to get done. Like any like enthusiasm about like the future is sort of how you get, you know, how you get rolling.
01:58:51
Wes MacMillan
yeah
01:58:55
Oscar
I may name my kid Will. And then he'd be Will Bunting. And that's damn close.
01:59:00
Wes MacMillan
ah
01:59:01
Oscar
Because he could be a...
Conclusion and Reflections
01:59:03
Wes MacMillan
That would be awesome. Good Will Bunton.
01:59:06
Oscar
I don't know. I'm like not like against the name. Will's not a bad name.
01:59:09
Wes MacMillan
and like name Will a lot.
01:59:11
Oscar
Yeah. so and It would kind of be up to him whether he behaves well or not. Good Will. Good Will Bunting.
01:59:20
Wes MacMillan
All right.
01:59:21
Oscar
Yeah.
01:59:26
Oscar
That would be a legacy to be born under.
01:59:26
Wes MacMillan
We're at two hours.
01:59:27
Wes MacMillan
And
01:59:28
Oscar
Yeah.
01:59:31
Wes MacMillan
and we can wrap here, but I'd definitely love to have you on again.
01:59:34
Oscar
Absolutely.
01:59:35
Wes MacMillan
good talk.
01:59:35
Oscar
Great time.
01:59:36
Wes MacMillan
Cause I don't, I don't have that many, like I have a good amount of guests lined up, but I'm going to run out pretty quickly. So I think we're going to do part two skis pretty soon.
01:59:47
Oscar
Would you ever think of like doing like, can you do on this platform like three people or more?
01:59:54
Wes MacMillan
Yeah.
01:59:55
Oscar
Do you think about that or you like the one-on-one?
01:59:56
Wes MacMillan
I kind of like, I think I like the one-on-one. I definitely try ah three people.
02:00:03
Oscar
Yeah.
02:00:05
Wes MacMillan
I just, it's a little like one-on-one conversations are easier to me because it's
02:00:08
Oscar
It would definitely be more lighthearted or like, like in a good way, like, I don't know, not surface level, but like three people, like you just like, yeah, I know what you mean.
02:00:23
Wes MacMillan
Cause like when it's two people, it's like the other person starts to talk, stops talking, you start, but three people conversations, like one person starts talking. It's like, who's going to go next?
02:00:34
Wes MacMillan
You know what i mean? It can feel, like especially in the beginning. Cause like even the beginning of this, it always feels like weird. Cause like you're on camera, which I'm just, I don't know if I'll ever get used to until you catch a groove, but we caught a fucking groove.
02:00:50
Oscar
Definitely. Definitely call it the green.
02:00:54
Wes MacMillan
Yeah, I like, I think I like the one on one. But I mean, yeah, definitely be down to try like me, you Rome.
02:01:02
Oscar
Yeah, yeah. ah yeah, I'm definitely down to come on again. Good time.
02:01:09
Wes MacMillan
also have that your friend Luke said he'd come on. I think that'd be a good chat.
02:01:16
Oscar
He mentioned that you booked him or he just said like,
02:01:21
Wes MacMillan
Well, I said, would you be down to come on sometime? And then i was like, can you do tomorrow? And he was like, no. So now, and then nothing else. But I have,
02:01:30
Oscar
how long ago? That was a little, lot that was like over winter break, right?
02:01:34
Wes MacMillan
i also, i took like the whole month of January off. Oh, we're coming back.
02:01:38
Oscar
I bet he'd come on.
02:01:40
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. and So and my friend, my boy, Matt from school, he's going to come on and his friend, it's the funniest girl I've ever met.
02:01:42
Oscar
Yeah, dude.
02:01:46
Oscar
Yep.
02:01:50
Wes MacMillan
So we're going to have her on. It'll be cool.
02:01:52
Oscar
Really?
02:01:54
Oscar
That's high praise.
02:01:54
Wes MacMillan
She, yeah.
02:01:56
Wes MacMillan
yeah And it's like, it's not, I don't at least top two. I think she's
02:02:04
Wes MacMillan
Definitely like, right, I don't even need to talk about this. She's like, some people are funny because like, we just, they say wild shit, but this girl is like very like into like, she knows what she's doing and her jokes are like fucking, like, I feel like we're intentionally funny.
02:02:19
Wes MacMillan
And then there's like people that are just like weird.
02:02:19
Oscar
yeah
02:02:21
Wes MacMillan
And that's a version of funny. And she's not just like weird.
02:02:25
Oscar
yeah yes yes absolutely
02:02:28
Wes MacMillan
Okay. Oscar, I've asked this a couple of times, so fuck it, why not? We'll end off by saying, is there anything you wish you could tell your younger self?
02:02:40
Oscar
um
02:03:04
Oscar
Honestly, just like
02:03:11
Oscar
Something along the lines of like, keep going, because like, things things will turn out all right. And like, don't know, I feel like who I am today is a testament of...
02:03:26
Oscar
the hard work that my, uh, younger self put in and just like the trust, um, and willingness to like put myself out there in terms of friendships, in terms of, uh, opportunities that I sought, um, with camp and stuff like that and going to the school that I did, um, the high school. And then just like that, kind of like keep going. Cause like,
02:03:54
Oscar
Even at the points where there was a ton of ah pressure on myself, at least it felt that way. Or when things like seemed, there were points in high school where i was like, why am I working this hard? Like, will anything ever come out of this?
02:04:09
Oscar
but In some respects, nothing has come out of it, but I'm believing that one day it will. And regardless, like things have been great. So I'm not complaining at all.
02:04:21
Oscar
And I'm very glad that like my past worked out to the way to get me to the point that I am. um So, yeah, just keep going. Because. Sitting here currently in the present, like, you know, you look around, and you recognize like.
02:04:39
Oscar
Things are pretty good.
02:04:41
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Hard work pays off. And it's also ah one thing I, one saying I love is like hard work pays off, like not always in the way you think it's going to, but it always pays off. Like say you're like study really hard to pass a test and you flunk it like that, that work you put in, like that builds like a work ethic.
02:05:02
Wes MacMillan
Like it never goes, it never goes without paying off.
02:05:03
Oscar
Definitely.
02:05:08
Wes MacMillan
All right Thank you for coming on Oscar. Uh, listeners, thank you for listening. Rate it five stars, million stars, thumbs up, comment, subscribe.
02:05:19
Oscar
On what?
02:05:20
Wes MacMillan
Uh,
02:05:20
Oscar
on On Apple. You have it on Apple Podcasts, right?
02:05:24
Wes MacMillan
this is on Apple, Spotify, YouTube.
02:05:28
Oscar
Word.
02:05:31
Oscar
Awesome.
02:05:31
Wes MacMillan
And yeah, Skerr will be on again.
02:05:35
Oscar
Yep.
02:05:37
Wes MacMillan
Yeah. Thanks for listening. right.
02:05:40
Oscar
Peace out, everyone.