Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Does This Belong In A Museum?!
109 Plays4 years ago
This week's episode is about four celebrity home tours from Architectural Digest! We're looking at the art found in the homes of Kourtney Kardashian, Mark Ronson, Lance Armstrong, and Kendall Jenner. Do any of these art works actually belong in these homes? And what does art by celebrity artists look like or function as in a domestic space?
Recommended
Transcript
Catch-up and Merchandise Update
00:00:31
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to our Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. How's it going, Gianna? It's going good. I miss you. I know. I miss you too. Round two of recording, whilst parted. I see all of you back there. Yeah, he's so cute. He's just taking a little day nap. He looks so handsome.
00:00:55
Speaker
Thank you. I'll let him know. Okay, well. I do really miss him a lot. I miss you, but I also miss Ollivander. Yeah, I'm glad to know that people miss Ollivander. I don't mind it. He's a little schlanker.
00:01:09
Speaker
No, thank you. How was your week? It was good. I feel like I've been very productive. Work has been really good. I'm getting a lot of things done. And I sent out everyone's merch this week, which was awesome. A reminder, you can still definitely place your order for stickers and magnets. But those of you who have already placed an order,
00:01:35
Speaker
They went out this week, so be expecting those soon. Oh my gosh, I love it. So yes, if you didn't know the APT merch warehouse is Bianca's apartment, so thank you for getting all of those out. You're the best. No, of course. Thank you to everyone who placed an order. I'm so excited for you guys to have them.
00:01:58
Speaker
Gianna, I feel like I have a lot of things to talk to you about because I can't just talk to you randomly during the day anymore and come and bother you, you know? Oh, how I miss that. I'm sure.
Gianna's Viewing Experience and Discussion of Black is King
00:02:11
Speaker
So very importantly, I finished season two of Killing Eve, which is all that's on Hulu. So I have to wait for season three to come on Hulu. I'm obsessed. But I did watch Black is King.
00:02:25
Speaker
And I'm so excited for us to potentially dive into that, into more detail. Gianna, have you watched it yet? Oh, yes, for sure. So I finished watching it after we recorded our last episode, and I have a lot of thoughts.
00:02:42
Speaker
but Mood Forever is quite frankly a masterpiece. I don't even know how to eloquently just talk about it right now. So that episode is just hopefully not going to be a bunch of word vomit, but it is. The looks, the glam, the landscape, looking at the physical landscape and the bodies, all of these amazing, beautiful black and brown bodies in this landscape, in the glam.
00:03:12
Speaker
My favorite was Brown Skin Girl and The Power. Oh my gosh, I was just so obsessed and really glad to watch it. And I'm excited to talk about how all of this amazing masterwork in celebration
00:03:31
Speaker
of blackness stemming from something like the Lion King is fascinating. And of course, in there, there's all those art history references. I'm sure you noticed Gianna. Of course, I noticed of yours. But I think I'm also really excited to talk about
00:03:49
Speaker
the fashion within it, like her long time fashion designer was a huge part of putting together Black is King. I'm just really interested in all of these things that are merging together. I mean, we know, we know she's on this level. We know. Yeah, that's exactly it is I watched it expecting nothing less and then coming out of it being completely blown away. And so I watched that Thursday evening.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I finished it maybe at like eight o'clock or something like that and I wasn't ready for bed, but I couldn't handle any other type of stimulating material because nothing could top the experience that I just watched. So all I could do was rewatch her Coachella performance. And I just had an evening of Beyonce and I was totally fine with it. I'm really happy for you.
00:04:45
Speaker
And
Bianca's Emotional Night and CBS Features
00:04:46
Speaker
then on Friday, I think you'll be pleased to know that APTHQ was turned into Sad Girl Central Station because I watched A Star is Born. And after Beyonce Thursday night, it was really good to get out an ugly cry on Friday.
00:05:04
Speaker
Oh for sure. I very much feel that as a mood for this week. I'm freaking loving that Sad Girl Central like all aboard bitches like this is the vibe this week. The next sticker we need is a train. I'm just coming into Sad Girl Central Station.
00:05:24
Speaker
Hey, Sid Hammond, if you're listening, I'm gonna need you to get on. Yeah, get on that, babe. Thank you. She's like, oh my god, like I have nothing else better to do for you people. God damn it. Sid, I'm obsessed with you. Yeah, for sure. Did you watch CBS Sunday morning today? Oh, you know I did. Wow, love to see it.
00:05:48
Speaker
Well, I thought that there was a really, well, there were two really interesting stories, but one of them was about the presidential photographer under Gerald Ford and how he really captured a very different perspective of the presidency from other White House photographers. But then they also had another art story about Kara Walker.
00:06:11
Speaker
who is an artist that I've been thinking about a lot over the summer because of work things related to my museum and Kara Walker's art. But the Tate in London has a massive sculptural work of hers. Similar to the vein of kind of last week's content, I was thinking about how a sculpture is not really
00:06:33
Speaker
what I would think of when thinking about Kara Walker, I would first probably recall her silhouettes, but it's visually mimicking a monument to Queen Victoria that stands in front of Buckingham Palace. And then we're interviewing several historians about how in England,
00:06:52
Speaker
slave owners were paid reparations for the abolishment of slavery, which accounted to billions of dollars in today's currency. They interviewed a man who was then talking about how the government actually used a loan to pay these funds to slave owners
00:07:13
Speaker
which wasn't fully paid back until 2015.
Art Discussions: Kara Walker and Celebrity Ownership
00:07:18
Speaker
So black people in England up until 2015 were paying for those reparation funds back through their taxes. And all of this stemmed from a conversation about Kara Walker and her piece at the Tate.
00:07:33
Speaker
it was fascinating my I wish y'all could just see my eyes right now just shot out of my head this is absolutely bonkers this is why we need art this is like a good mm-hmm art moment the CBS Sunday morning also did an interview with the artist Bradley Hart I don't know if you saw
00:07:54
Speaker
He fills these like the bubbles from bubble wrap up with paint to make these very pixelated replicas of his own art and also famous paintings He seems like he does primarily like portraits. I thought that was cute. It was a cute story See ya Sunday morning just serving up all the art history content. They were serving so much art history content So Gianna, what are we gonna talk about this week? Oh my god
00:08:22
Speaker
You guys have no idea what you're about to hear. You have no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea. Oh my god, dead. Okay, please let us get through this intro. For today's Art Pop Talk,
00:08:46
Speaker
We are discussing celebrity ownership or collections of art. Because we have been covering a lot of exhibitions lately and speaking about the relationship between museums and collectors or foundations, it is a really good segue into thinking more critically about
00:09:05
Speaker
what it means when a celebrity is able to be a patron of other high profile or famous artists, how works and objects are being collected or obtained, and how they are being displayed. So basically, I went down a freaking hole this week and became completely obsessed with watching Architectural Digest open door celebrity home tours.
00:09:28
Speaker
One, I'm just genuinely interested in architecture and design, but it was this extra surprise for me to see these celebrities just casually name-dropping these very prolific and historic artists. It's fascinating to know what they own, and in most of these videos I watch, speaking about these objects or works of art is actually a pretty pivotal
00:09:51
Speaker
point of interest in these tours, which I think isn't anything that Architectural Digest planned. It's just something that ends up happening because these celebrities have this art and they want to show it off.
Celebrity Homes and COVID's Impact on Presentation
00:10:02
Speaker
Well, and as we'll talk about, some of it is very integral to the construction of the home. Yep, yep, absolutely. So these videos got me thinking because I was watching a couple of them with a friend of mine and I had a couple moments where I was like, holy crap, like, no way, I can't believe they have one of those works of art in their home.
00:10:23
Speaker
And my friend, who perhaps doesn't have both feet fully in the visual art world, just looked at me and was like, you know, who's that? Kind of looking at me like, what's the big deal? So it was good for me to take a step back and think about the general public who are watching these videos, mostly viewers who are probably just thinking, oh, yeah, isn't it normal for celebrities to have fancy art? Like, whatever. Who cares? We know this. Like, this is bougie.
00:10:51
Speaker
And yes, this has been common knowledge, of course, but I can say very confidently that we should care and it is a pretty big deal when, again, thinking critically about who the patron is, the irony sometimes of their own celebrity status, who is the artist, what is the work about, and again, how are they being displayed? And a lot of the time, the work, I think, anyways, is being bought for the name attached to it.
00:11:19
Speaker
it is an exotic or foreign object or is being used for aesthetic purposes, which can either be done, any of those examples be done appropriately or very problematically. I also think it's very interesting to watch
00:11:35
Speaker
in the midst of COVID, because although I also thoroughly enjoy home and interior design, and throughout this pandemic, I think there has been a lot more critical analysis of the home and looking into celebrities homes, but on TV lately.
00:11:56
Speaker
I feel like these homes are staged to look more humble. We're not actually getting the lavish home tour. In my view, we've been more often seeing kind of a humble room or a minimal setup in people's homes or even a rental home. For celebrities who, for example, normally live in New York, I don't think we're seeing their kind of
00:12:21
Speaker
fancy apartments or townhomes, I feel like we are exploring or audiences are being critical of how celebrities talk about their quote unquote at home experience. Yes, exactly. I agree. So I mean, what better time for us to just dive into this?
00:12:41
Speaker
So Gianna, whenever you approached me about this topic, I was watching these videos and some of them made me physically angry, but others, I was like, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this. Like I want everything that's in this person's home.
00:12:56
Speaker
So I felt like throughout watching these I had a lot of really conflicting emotions like that rational art historian that is like this is art and artists for everybody and anybody can purchase art and look at it and appreciate it and then on the other hand I'm like this isn't right this is wrong and I can't I can't watch this like you don't need to own this
00:13:17
Speaker
Okay, yes, I also felt very conflicted watching these videos because when I first called you, my reaction was like, this belongs in a museum. I'm gonna jump in a freaking snake pit. This belongs in a museum. Come at me. Indiana Jones is just the savior that we need for this week's episode when he's holding that artifact in the rain with his hat on.
00:13:46
Speaker
But I mean like Harrison Ford in general. I'd be fine with Harrison Ford being the spokesperson for the show.
00:13:55
Speaker
Oh my god. He would hate it. He would hate it so much. You know what? Maybe when like one day we write a book Harrison Ford can do our audio book because he has such a good voice. I think he would really love that. I don't think he would but we can ask him. Okay what is that's gonna be like our what 2022 goal? 2022? Yeah I think for sure. Gianna in two years we're gonna have Harrison Ford narrating our audio book.
00:14:24
Speaker
Okay, but the more I watch these videos, whether I always agreed with it, this is also giving us a very truthful insight into how art collecting works, which
00:14:39
Speaker
You know, it's kind of about keeping that money moving in the art world and keeping everything revolving. Again, whether we like it or not, we need art patrons. But today we are going to be thinking about, again, what it means more complex for these celebrities.
00:14:57
Speaker
this idea of their status as well to own these works and what it's like to get to see how the art is displayed in their homes and the significance again of their own celebrity. So this is also one of those situations where this is one of the things about the art world that we're going to feel conflicting about because it's a conflicting place here. Welcome.
00:15:21
Speaker
So for today, I'm going to keep the original sources of using these AD Open Tour videos for today's discussion because this will be a continuous theme or a continuous discussion on art and celebrity culture. But because these videos can provide you all as listeners with the whole picture and have these really great visuals for not only the art, but also the spaces or the homes they reside in, they will serve as a really great jumping off point for us today.
00:15:51
Speaker
The celebrity homes and owned art we are talking about today will belong to Kendall Jenner, Lance Armstrong, Kourtney Kardashian, and Mark Ronson. Let's kick this discussion off by talking about Kourtney Kardashian
00:16:08
Speaker
and Mark Ronson. Courtney's video is maybe three or four minutes long, but I wanted to bring it up for you to watch because she has a copy of Damien Hurst's Crystal Skull that we talked about in the last episode about the pop power show at the OKC MOA. In her video, she says she loved collecting black and white photography along with Pez dispensers. Right, so
00:16:36
Speaker
This was really interesting for me because I think this is a great way to start thinking about what other people collect, right?
00:16:45
Speaker
We talked about this in our Bobby's discussion at the OSU MA, that collecting can be very personal and a very human experience. Now, the Hearst stood out to me in particular because last week we were talking about it in the pop art context, which views collecting and purchasing through a very critical lens. And this diamond encrusted skull, I thought,
00:17:14
Speaker
visually kind of encapsulated this example of the Kardashians in the art world that we always seem to kind of be coming back to, in that they are rich, they have money, and create and even expand and exemplify parts of popular culture, including very clearly the art world. But here, Kourtney is living
00:17:39
Speaker
this diamond encrusted lifestyle, but it's a life that will eventually end just like everybody else. And I think it's also connected to that kind of status of royalty. In this context, it was interesting to think about the reign that the Kardashians have on our American pop culture. And we don't have kings and queens, but we do have these kind of families that stand out to us so much. In the end, I mean,
00:18:09
Speaker
Maybe she's a diamond encrusted skull. You know, I don't know. Maybe that's a little morbid, but alas. Well, alas, if we have learned anything about Damien's work, I think that it's morbid as fuck.
00:18:24
Speaker
And that's kind of the point. But regardless, this is an analysis that I am actually quite living for. And another thing I thought was funny was Scott actually gave this as a gift to Courtney. And I just thought, you know, just to humor us for a minute, if hypothetically he was aware of this perspective. Scott is very much, I think he's very mischievous, so.
00:18:51
Speaker
I'm just saying this could have been the greatest and bougiest prank yet, which I like to think is actually what happened. On the Kardashian show, like the reality show, Scott and Khloe prank Kris into thinking that Khloe had exclusive access to this new, hot artist, and it's a name they made up.
00:19:13
Speaker
called Art Vandelay because they are tired of Chris art shaming them and thinking that she knows everything about the art market and the art scene. So they prank her and they make their own art. They even get an art appraisal on it and they get this other person in on it who works out like a gallery or something and they make a damn fool out of Chris to point out her own elitism and hypocrisy, which is the most iconic thing that's ever happened.
00:19:43
Speaker
I love that. I love that so much. It's so good. And just shout out to Miss Sammy, who also told me that I should look that episode up of the Kardashian. So I very much credit where credit is due. Thank you, Sammy. Now I gotta watch it. You're gonna love it. I'm so excited.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I think we should talk about Mark Ronson's tour, which I have to say was freaking hilarious. We opened the video and Mark has a very like Warholian attitude that for me came off as like very satirical. And I felt like he absolutely knew what he was doing with this kind of put on.
00:20:28
Speaker
attitude. And he says things throughout the video like I'm told this house is Spanish and I've probably eaten in my dining room maybe twice since I've lived here.
00:20:39
Speaker
And what killed me was his shelves of Grammys and his Oscar. And he said, it's like where I keep my sports trophies, but for music. So at first, this attitude was kind of arrogant and off-putting. And I got kind of annoyed because he was like, oh, you know, I'm told this house is Spanish. I was like, what do you mean you're told? You didn't look it up. But over the course of the video, I got the sense that this was actually his way of not being
00:21:08
Speaker
too braggy about the pieces of art and the things that he has in his home. He, yes, he's Mark Ronson. Of course he clearly has money and is able to do a lot of things, but he's accomplished and has a major amount of success and status.
Critiques and Praises of Celebrity Art Collections
00:21:25
Speaker
But to me, watching that video seemed like this attitude was really put on and it was an attempt to kind of block
00:21:33
Speaker
that sense of really arrogant privilege that, as we will talk about, I think can happen with these home tours. Looking back again to last week's episode, when we enter the house, Ronson says something like, now this piece here, I'm not actually, you know, not too sure of the artist's name. Then he's like, nah, just kidding. This is cute herring.
00:21:57
Speaker
I'm like, bro, you almost gave me a heart attack. I know, at first, Gianna, I was like, I got really mad. Right, just because you were right. When he initially opened the door, it was sarcasm from the get go, and it was this put on whatever. And I understand that throughout the AD tours, each of the people doing it have a little bit of a put on because they're trying to be funny, also make it entertaining, so it's like, I get it, but whatever. So then he goes on to say that in the 80s in New York,
00:22:26
Speaker
you know, that influence of music and hip hop and break dancing and herring's work is what surrounded Ronson in his young age. So this work very much means something personal to him. And I understand his reasonings for wanting to collect one of herring's sculptures. Right. And he actually talks about how he had this stand built for it so that he can display it not on the wall, but actually kind of as a sculptural piece on the
00:22:53
Speaker
Like standing from the floor. Yeah, which I actually liked because to me it added a very personal sense to it a much deeper Connection and its display and I thought I really felt like he wanted he wanted to talk about it You know, he wanted people to see it in a way that he saw it. Mm-hmm
00:23:13
Speaker
He also talked about a work he has from artist Dave Muller, who is an artist best known for his renderings of album cover spines and his cartoon features in The New Yorker. He kind of has this very humorous and satirical aspect to his work, but Ronson was talking about how Bruno Mars has a work by this artist.
00:23:36
Speaker
And Mark loved it so much that he contacted the artist and Muller made Ronson a new work with Ronson's favorite albums on it. So I really appreciated this because Mark Ronson contacted an artist that he saw that he liked and essentially had something commissioned and personalized.
00:23:58
Speaker
While this is, again, a totally privileged thing that Ronson can do, I appreciate at the same time that he's investing in an artist and finding something in the visual arts that relates specifically to him and to his own personal and domestic space. People have things commissioned for their home all the time. No, they're not always by artists like David Muller, but the action behind it, I really appreciate it.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yes, I completely agree. And actually out of, you know, obviously I didn't watch all of the AD videos and paring down for what we were going to talk about today, but he was one of the only celebrities that maybe aside from I think like Mandy Moore had something commissioned.
00:24:43
Speaker
But it was a scarcity of getting these specifically commissioned works and contacting the artists. The next collection of work that I want to talk about that Mark Ronson has is at least five Roy Lichtenstein prints that live in his other
00:24:59
Speaker
less formal dining room area that's next to his kitchen. So Lichtenstein is also a parp artist whose work defines the premise of pop art through parody while being influenced by comic strips and consumer culture. There is a very kind of
00:25:16
Speaker
tongue-in-chee humor about Lichtenstein's work, which based off of Ronson's demeanor in the video, I get the vibe that he probably really likes that. There is only one highlighted print in the video, but you can see the other prints kind of scatter around in the background.
00:25:35
Speaker
I think maybe picked out around five. I'm not totally sure about that number but there's definitely more than one. So they're all pretty small in scale and they all use white, black, and yellow as a color scheme and they are all very graphic or abstracted and some show realism, some don't at all. The most interesting part is that they're all paired with this graphic yellow wallpaper with zebras on it
00:26:00
Speaker
which feels kind of random at first, but Ronson lets us know that the wallpaper has made several appearances in famous Hollywood movies by Woody Allen and Wes Anderson. So I think this room is actually quite spectacular. It's really stunning, actually. It is really beautiful because what I can infer is happening is not only making art a focal point in this room, which is, again, always appreciated,
00:26:29
Speaker
But as both Woody Allen and Roy Lichtenstein are pioneering Jewish artists from New York, and Ronson being a male Jewish artist from New York as well, I think he is also looking for a way to play into his own history, as well as show his affinity towards these artists. So I think Ronson, he also adds his own claim or stake in the space. He's so cute, honestly.
00:26:56
Speaker
He adds his own little installation and it's with old cassette tapes in it. I don't know. I can get on board with this room. It's quite a complex space which highlights the art in a very respectful way, I think. The only thing I wasn't thrilled about was the reference to Woody Allen.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's another case of separating the work of art in the set design and the set designers who probably worked on that space and separating the art from that big name, you know, problematic director. But yeah, the wallpaper, everything works. It seems weird. Like you have these Lichtenstein's paired with
00:27:40
Speaker
Zebra wallpaper, but it's really beautiful Well, he did he even said in like one of the graphic images that was more abstracted, you know He was saying there's no real Figurative or image in here But when you look at the zebras and you look at this piece they're mimicking each other and I was like, okay like I see you you're yeah working there through the motions and and
00:28:03
Speaker
You're actually thinking about this art in a really complex way for your own home. So there was thought put into it, which was good. Appreciated, yeah. Next on the agenda is Lance Armstrong's home in Aspen, Colorado. Buckle up, everyone, because this one is a doozy. This was so treacherous to watch.
00:28:31
Speaker
Honestly, it was painful. I was just here in my apartment alone and was getting physically angry. Yeah. Please continue listening. Lance Armstrong says that he started collecting art 20-ish years ago. His house is, what, like four stories or something like that? Well, he kept talking about throughout the video how in Aspen you're not allowed to build up
00:28:59
Speaker
so everybody has to build down so it seemed like there were about four stories but they weren't going up they were essentially going down underground right it's like you can only have like two stories or something so if you want more you have to build down and there is art everywhere he highlighted the most artworks out of any of the four videos he says something where he's like oh you know we're all in the kitchen everyone hangs out in the kitchen but there could be a thousand dollars just sitting in the living room and nobody would leave the kitchen well
00:29:28
Speaker
What I noticed about that is none of the other videos we watched talked about money. Yeah. None of the other celebrities talked about money, how much things cost. It was just from the get go. It was the whole time. It was the first things he talked about was, oh, his friends come over and you know, his friends must be so wealthy that $1,000 is just a drop in the bucket. I quote unquote, understand the point that
00:29:56
Speaker
people just like hanging out in the kitchen but the kitchen has potential to be that kind of centerpiece especially in this type of celebrity home but one of the first things he did was just talk about money and yeah immediately from there I was like okay it was just braggy from the get-go and I was not on board so we are still in the kitchen at this point and the camera pans up
00:30:21
Speaker
And there is a Kendi Wiley painting in this space. So then Lance proceeds to say, oh, you may know him. He is artist who was commissioned for the Obama portrait. And I'm over here just like, and so many other incredible things may I add.
00:30:40
Speaker
This is an absolutely stunning Ken and Wiley piece. It's in this kitchen again that's located way, way up to the top of the ceiling above the kitchen stove and oven, which from just a preservation standpoint is very, very not good. Just thinking about all the steam and the water going up in the air over time affecting this painting,
00:31:05
Speaker
is just giving me so much anxiety. And I even saw like the teapot like on the stove, like not going but just like thinking about the teapot going off. I just went through the roof, residual dust from your kitchen. I mean, flour flour gets into the air.
00:31:23
Speaker
Not to mention how uncomfortable I feel knowing that this portrait of a black man has to watch over you by freaking Lance Armstrong eats his damn breakfast. I mean, what is the conversation that's happening in the kitchen when he was just talking about this money aspect?
00:31:43
Speaker
It just felt very much to me like this is my Kenny Wiley. Did you see it? And then they moved on and they started talking about how many refrigerators he had. Yeah, this was just a very WTF moment. Again, my biggest problem with introducing this piece the
00:32:02
Speaker
the portrait is gorgeous, but he literally says, you may know him, you may know him, you may know the artist as the man who did the Obama portrait. And there's no discussion about race and how that matters. And also with the Obama portrait, there's a huge complex conversation about having a black man paint the first black president
00:32:29
Speaker
And also the atypical manner that the portrait actually exists in. It's not a traditional type of presidential portrait. So to, I don't know, to bring that up and exactly just to name drop the president and Kehinde Wiley just seems like such a dismissal of the artist and the work and the point that Kehinde Wiley is constantly trying to make for his audiences. Yeah, I agree.
00:32:58
Speaker
So here we go. I had a lot of issues with Lance's home. Out of all the homes and celebrities, Lance absolutely had the most artwork in it, most of which didn't appear to apply to him.
00:33:14
Speaker
personally, but it's just that he could afford it. And quite frankly, he did feel very braggy about it. Not only do I have a lot of problems with the ways in which his works, you know, really the the Wiley are exhibited and thought about and obviously from Gianna's perspective taken care of how they're preserved.
00:33:33
Speaker
On his staircase, he has a sculpture by Jen Stark, who is a relatively young artist who he says he befriended. The work is very multicolored, very bright and sculptural again with this kind of what appears to be a hollow column in the center.
00:33:55
Speaker
There's a person behind the camera and asks, Lance, what do you see when you take a look in the hole? So Lance kind of bends over and looks down into this sculpture. And Lance replies with something like, Oh, nothing happens when you look into it. You know, and he says something about his kids screaming, like, hopefully, I don't hear my kids screaming or something like that. He says, like, hopefully,
00:34:18
Speaker
No one's eating chips in there or no one's eating chips around it or something. What? Yeah Yeah This is where again I got kind of conflicted because I am such a big proponent that art is Subjective and you don't always have to see something important in a work of art sometimes it's okay just to look at something because I
00:34:41
Speaker
visually you like it or you don't like it and that's a hundred thousand percent justified and okay just to appreciate something visually or sensory in a sensory manner but something about his attitude just really rubbed me the wrong way
00:35:00
Speaker
like he didn't actually like the piece but he just bought it because he could and in any of the works he didn't really talk about the art or why he has it or what it means to him but it's always about name recognition and his own personal friendship with the artist I mean I think in most of the art he talked about he's like this is a friend of mine this is you know we're friends he comes over they come over
00:35:26
Speaker
For example, he had a framed Ed Ruscha piece that was actually a birthday card sent to Lance from Ed. But it wasn't about Ed's work. Again, it was this gift that he received from
00:35:39
Speaker
Prolific artist and then he just talked about ice, you know his ice from this one a fancy ice maker Which like, you know that stuff like that is part of a home tour Like it's cool to show those kinds of things off and I get that but next to everything else it was just weird and then they he has a Tom Saks and
00:36:01
Speaker
Texas map, which reminded me a lot of Nick and Jake's Texas map that we talked about. And it's literally only because I'm familiar with Nick and Jake's work.
00:36:15
Speaker
they looked so similar. I mean, it's a map of Texas, but I couldn't help but think it just popped into my head. Like instead of inclusive gay histories, I'm just seeing like a regular white dude talk about how he's from Texas. And I just couldn't, which is hard to listen to.
00:36:33
Speaker
No, Bianca, I know. And it was also so funny because that was arguably the only artwork that we could say Lance felt some kind of actual personal connection to, just because he was simply from Texas, which is...
00:36:50
Speaker
whatever but the way he kept touching and running his hands all over this piece was giving me so much anxiety again because just because you own this doesn't give you free range to not treat it with care owning art is a great privilege but it's also a responsibility to preserve it not only for the artists but these are right now contemporary objects that will soon be historical works and that freaking means something
00:37:17
Speaker
With great power comes great responsibility. Okay, so moving on Lance Armstrong's house. It just was not it. Not at this. Last but certainly not least, Kendall Jenner's home and art collection is first off, I just do think that her home is stunning. I really liked it a lot. It's gorgeous. The arches. Yeah. And the color. It felt like a
00:37:45
Speaker
home which I appreciated because I personally it's just not my style I didn't love Courtney's home it's just yeah it's it's very personalized and that's totally fine but from my view I loved Kendall's home it was stunning it did it felt more warm and inviting and also her demeanor is very inviting and she's it seems like a place and
00:38:09
Speaker
through her speaking about it where she does seem to have a lot of people over on regular occasions. So I really like the majority of her style. Again, she seems like one of the more celebrities that spoke briefly but well about the art in their homes. And I think that was largely because these works of art are, yes, they arguably fit her aesthetic, but I do think that they are also large focal points in the house.
00:38:37
Speaker
So she also makes that a point she makes these artworks.
00:38:41
Speaker
that focal point in her home. Right, again, because your guests can be more inclined or would be able to have these discussions about the art instead of viewing them as just being separately decorative, which of course is extremely less problematic. So I think she really made it up. The works of art in her house were a more pivotal point of interest and talking point than any other home tour I have watched. For her, yeah.
00:39:09
Speaker
Absolutely, but the fact that she has installation art in her home will open up a conversation for us about who gets to fully experience this art. So we'll be talking about three works featured in her ad open door segment.
Kendall Jenner's Art Pieces: Meditation and Irony
00:39:25
Speaker
They are works created by James Turrell, Barbara Cougar, and Tracy Emin, three very big name contemporary artists. Let's start with the first piece she shows us in her home, which is right in the entryway space. So it's the first thing you see when you walk in, and it's an installation piece by James Turrell. True to his usual style. I mean, I just need a second to gather my composure because... Oh, yeah.
00:39:55
Speaker
Are you kidding me? I mean who freaking has a James Turrell light installation in their home? I'm just really just bitter here if I'm being honest. I'm bitter because I'm really jealous and it's pink. It's it's so beautiful. James Turrell's work overall is just stunning but honestly I was jealous. Oh I was so jealous. I would put a pink James Turrell work in my home and not feel bad about it.
00:40:24
Speaker
I'm a bitter woman over here. Okay, anyways, James Turrell, just truly amazing, but he's an American artist known for exploration of light and space in isolated, contained or environmental settings. He uses photographic techniques that allow light to have an actual physical presence in the room that is occupying. So here, light is being used as a medium or material,
00:40:50
Speaker
and also as the actual subject, which is quite interesting. So using this holography to manipulate these light formations, Terrell creates these colored installations that appear to possess mass and take up space, and again, a variety of spaces and shapes and forms. Beginning in the 70s, he became known for an ongoing series called Sky Space, where he created these enclosed spaces around the world, but leaving
00:41:20
Speaker
the sky accessible through an aperture in the roof. So in these works, Terrell isn't manipulating the forms and the light directly, but instead leaving it up to the natural world so we can observe these changes in the light.
00:41:36
Speaker
minute by minute, day to day, season to season. So this has also been known and has been described as a religious experience for a lot of people. He does a lot of work if maybe I'm mistaken, but with churches, he's actually created light installations for religious spaces in particular.
00:41:58
Speaker
And again, in a variety of spaces around the world, too, some of them you can go visit and set up by appointment. Some of them are in complex areas. So some of them actually, they exist, but they are open to the public. But anyhow, so Kendall's piece is called Scorpius. And actually, I saw that Betches did a review on her house store.
00:42:22
Speaker
I know that Betches has a very sarcastic tone to the writing, but they did not seem to like the vibe, which is fine. Like whatever, you don't like her house. Like that's not your vibe. Cool beans. But I bring this article up and it's called the weirdest things in Kendall Jenner's house, because I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about Terrell's work and possibly Kendall's reasoning for owning it.
00:42:50
Speaker
The article reads, quote, Kendall says that he makes these pieces to meditate in front of, but I have my doubts that Kendall is really spending much time meditating in her foyer. This piece is called Scorpius. Kendall Jenner is Scorpio. Groundbreaking.
00:43:07
Speaker
period. Okay, so I think first it's important to again think more critically about what meditation and art can mean and how meditation can be carried out in a variety of forms and can be performed by the viewer. So here's where we can start this analysis. Let's see what the artist has to say about it, shall we?
00:43:33
Speaker
So in regards to these works, Terrell says, my work is more about your scene than it is my scene. Although it is a product of my scene, I'm also interested in the sense of presence of the space. That is the space where you feel a presence, almost an entity, that physical feeling and power that space can give.
00:43:55
Speaker
My work has no object, no image and no focus. With no object, no image and no focus, what are you looking at? You are looking at you looking. What is important to me is to create an experience of wordless thought.
00:44:13
Speaker
This man is everything. That idea, that experience of wordless thought, I think is actually a great descriptor for what meditation can be. Is Kendall Jenner sitting in front of this light form every day and practicing what betches idea of traditional meditation practices? Perhaps not. But that is also not the point.
00:44:37
Speaker
Many other works of art, including this one, are causing you to practice mindfulness and self-reflection. Whether you are conscious about it or not, it is happening. I was very unimpressed with this dismissal of Kendall's ownership over this piece because
00:44:53
Speaker
doing so in my opinion they didn't just make her seem trivial but they also made the work itself seem trivial as well yeah I mean it's just simply not the case because get ready for my big academic FU because
00:45:10
Speaker
James Turrell is concerned with and is including us in a conversation about the American landscape, the global landscape, astrology, and most importantly, perceptual psychology, which is specifically addressing the preconsciousness in the aspects of the human cognitive system or perception. It is a great privilege that Kendall is able to own this piece and to get to experience it every day in her own space.
00:45:36
Speaker
But it is actually in a way fulfilling the needs of Trell's work when thinking about perceptual psychology, because this is a study that is particularly concerned with the mental processes one goes through and uses on a daily basis.
00:45:54
Speaker
Gianna, I have to say, when I read this and was talking to you about this, I was fucking cackling like an old crone. And I was just like, bitch, this is what I live for. This conversation got me so happy, even if we're talking with or about someone or an article produced by someone like Betches.
00:46:20
Speaker
This is important. We should be having these conversations and Gianna I totally agree with that immediate dismissal of someone just because they are wealthy and privileged and Have the appearance of doing and owning whatever they want. So I
00:46:37
Speaker
First of all, literally go off bitch because everything you said was just on point. And here's the thing, 1000% yes, it is a great privilege for any celebrity to own something like a James Terrell. But second of all, if any piece out of all the pieces that we've talked about that was supposed to be in a home or fits
00:47:01
Speaker
in a domestic space, it is the freaking James Turrell because just as you said, he is an artist that specifically lends his work to the personal and to architecture, to any type of architecture. Also, the work looks stunning in her home like that. I mean, damn, I think it fits this space actually very well. I do too.
00:47:24
Speaker
It fits her personal architecture, all the rounded forms, the arches, the piece itself is round. It fucking works. I just think it works. This is the work that I have the least problem with anyone owning because she talked about it in a way that made her feel good. And you know what? Maybe she's lying. Maybe she's fucking bullshitting everyone about her meditation that she does, but you know what? That doesn't bother me because
00:47:52
Speaker
the work itself is fulfilling that type of conversation that it needs to. And you know what? Us as art historians and people who study art talk about things that we never see. Do you know what I mean? We talk about shit all the time that nobody will ever see. There are places in the world that I'm just never going to be able to go, but I can talk about it and it's fine, but Kendall Jenner can't talk about something that makes her
00:48:22
Speaker
happy because you don't think she meditates in front of it? I'm not saying that any of this is without its problems, but there's always going to be that complex relationship with something.
00:48:38
Speaker
It's filling her space with light and instigating a conversation with her audiences, with us, with anyone who watched this video about slow looking. I think that's another thing that bothers me is in the art world or in museum studies, slow looking has really, I think,
00:48:59
Speaker
come to the forefront of museum educational conversations. And slow looking is also a type of meditative process if you want to call it that. But I also think that we need to use that term, that phrase slow looking in comparison maybe with this meditative process that
00:49:21
Speaker
Jenna is talking about, but she is clearly feeling contemplative and thinking about Terrell. And her even thinking about that even a little bit makes me happy. And so I'm okay with it. Yeah, I mean, I 1000% agree with everything that you're saying.
00:49:41
Speaker
And look, again, Gianna and I are not saying that Kendall is perfect. We are not saying that in any way, but there are so many perspectives and things to consider about figures like that. And that's just the complex nature of their status. Yeah, agreed. So let's move on to the next piece, which lives in one of her walkways with those open arches that Bianca was talking about. And it's pretty central to that front living room or living space.
00:50:11
Speaker
My jaw dropped to the floor when Kendall was showing us this work. There are two large scale prints that go together to form one meaning, which in color, a very bright vivid color is a woman's mouth and tongue in each frame with the word good and then the word vibe on the second piece. So together they make good vibes overlaid on top. And they are created by the one and only Barbara Kruger.
00:50:39
Speaker
Bianca, we need to take a shot every time we say stunning because we've said stunning so much today, but they are freaking stunning.
00:50:48
Speaker
I'm not too sure if we have mentioned Barbara Cougar yet on an episode. I think I may have briefly spoken about her when talking about the influences of my Eat Me, Read Me, Know Me installation, but she is one of the mothers of feminist art. Her work, which is largely collage and photography-based, confronts ideas about consumerism, society, and gender politics.
00:51:12
Speaker
From a technical viewpoint, Kruger uses text and that text is very pivotal throughout her career in addressing this relationship between the human condition and also power dynamics within our society. But the piece that Kendall owns is a bit unusual from Kruger's more well-known style because it differs from her usual color palette that is simple, mostly black and white images with red framed letters.
00:51:39
Speaker
Here, instead, we have a very, again, vivid use of color, but she continues to mimic the stylization of advertisements and manipulating what I'm assuming to be a found image. Historically speaking, she finds her references in the consumer world and uses them for art purposes. Bianca, I don't know if you thought about this, but with the color, it very much looks like a Marilyn Minter work with the close-up mouth.
00:52:07
Speaker
As a third-party observer with no real particular interest in the matter, I'm not quite sure that Barbara and Kendall make a good match.
00:52:18
Speaker
This is not because I have, again, anything against Kendall Jenner, and it's not because I don't think Kendall is unaware of the significance of Kruger's work and mission as an activist and an artist. It is simply because I find it highly ironic that Kendall's profession is, of course, being a high profile model and female pop culture figure, a person that influences consumer purchasing within the fashion industry.
00:52:45
Speaker
I agree. Now, if these works didn't have the text good vibes on them, I might also purchase something similar for my own decorative purposes. I'm just not sure that I'm really a good vibes kind of gal. But the pieces themselves are stunning, as Gianna said, stunning. Yeah, I think we're more like a sad girl central kind of vibe.
00:53:14
Speaker
I want to commission Barbara Krueger for a sad girl central station piece. For me, Gianna, you're exactly right because she really talked so eloquently about the pieces.
00:53:29
Speaker
And again, I'm not doubting Kendall's attachment and admiration for the works. And for Barbara, Kendall says this was the first big acquisition that she made, buying them at Art Basel a few years ago and saying that she's a huge fan of Barbara Kruger's work. I think for me, just knowing Barbara's work more intimately and being more, or I know her work as being more confrontational with her text and word choice,
00:53:59
Speaker
I feel therefore hesitant to accept Barbara using good vibes in a kind of genuine good vibes type of manner. I feel that in comparison to her other images, to me, this is then influenced as being a satirical approach to contemporary consumption and also contemporary graphic design, the very industry that, as you said, Kendall is a part of.
00:54:28
Speaker
I do really like the piece, and I'm with you. I'm not a good vibes kind of gal either, but I do love the color and the aesthetics of it. I really enjoy this kind of analysis of it, because I think it really wraps together what our goal is about talking about the art world, but then this irony that exists within celebrity culture. But hey, if she likes it, she's putting it in a place.
00:54:58
Speaker
that makes it accessible for conversation and that's what I'm really asking for here. And she might, like we said, she might be pointing out her own hypocrisy of it and that's also good as well. So moving into the last piece on this audible tour of Kendall's home and for today, we are moving into the bedroom. We can find this really cute nook lounge area
00:55:26
Speaker
yet again with another installation piece that also uses light. And this is by the artist Tracey Emin, who was part of the Young British Artist Movement that we talked about with Damien Hirst.
00:55:39
Speaker
So this is one of Emin's neon works where she emulates her own handwriting to create signs or messages that address her own sanity, heartache, love or personal relationships through language that is direct, humorous, sarcastic or aggressive. So this particular sculpture in Kendall's bedroom is from 1999 and reads,
00:56:03
Speaker
22 centimeters circumference to diameter 4.5, glad to hear you're a happy girl. In the video, Kendall says, I'm pretty sure the measurements are an ex-boyfriend of Tracey Emin's penis size. And then the message at the bottom is to his new girlfriend, glad to hear you're a happy girl, because he has a really big penis, I believe.
00:56:25
Speaker
So there you have it. That is a direct message of the piece. Love to see it. But we need to go a step further and acknowledging the sculpture when it is isolated, but also in relationship to Emin's other neon romantic series. When you look at this piece and the rest of the series, it's clear that privacy is not present.
00:56:47
Speaker
Speaking about sexual encounters, again, heartbreak or childhood trauma and other things that people commonly avoid talking about is very present throughout this body of work. Because intimacy and personality are so apparent in her work and in regards to this piece in particular, I also find it fascinating that it exists in Kendall's bedroom, which is an intimate space rather than a living room, which is more of a communal space.
00:57:17
Speaker
right? I think that really the the bedroom seems like the right place to put it. I love this piece. And I think for Kendall, it it clearly fits her overall aesthetic, it clearly visually works with the other pieces in the house. And I think that is important to remember as we're looking at these home tours.
00:57:36
Speaker
These pieces that they collect are also part of interior design. We have to remember the context that they're in. They're not in a museum. We're not grouping works by era or by artist or by style. So I don't have a problem with
00:57:51
Speaker
Like Kendall owning this work at all. I think for her, it's something that clearly makes her happy. And you could see when she's talking about it, she has this kind of joy and finds joy in talking about something like that. Heartbreak and relationships maybe also seem like a fitting topic for someone like Kendall. And in other words,
00:58:08
Speaker
I'm not put off or confused by why she would own a piece like this one. Yeah, I agree. And also, like you just said, you know, it makes her happy and newsflash art doesn't have to be so freaking serious all the time. Although this sculpture could be read as using humor to mask pain.
00:58:29
Speaker
whatever Kendall is feeling from this piece, that's her own. So to end this tour of Kendall's house and recapping our discussion and thinking about what it means for her to have this collection and how we feel about how these objects are being displayed, for myself, I actually really respect the way that the objects are presented. I feel like it was very critical, very thought provoking, very meaningful installment of these pieces.
00:58:59
Speaker
I also feel like in her home, they seem to be taken care of. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes. I also, again, I think when you have these objects that are focal points, not only does that bring into what we've already discussed, but in regards to someone like Lance Armstrong's house where it's not that it was overwhelmingly cluttered,
00:59:22
Speaker
But you know what I mean? It's like when you have that like Banksy that just somehow exists on your staircase. That's something you're just passing by Every day. Yeah, if we think of a house like our gallery space and use these Curatorial approaches that we've discussed in the past this space where these works occupy make conceptual sense to me and relationship to Kendall's house and
00:59:46
Speaker
The only fail in my opinion, and forgive me for mentioning this and moving on so quickly because this is a very separate discussion, was the use of sacred or religious iconography for aesthetic or decorative purposes. They didn't highlight it too much in the video. And looking at some of other images of her house, I picked up on it.
01:00:08
Speaker
I know that Kendall practices mindfulness and meditation, which is absolutely wonderful. And this is a, you know, large part of Buddhism. But if she herself does not identify fully as being a Buddhist, I would ask her to think more critically
01:00:23
Speaker
about what these decorations are actually doing and are they appropriate to be used in her house. Lastly, we wanted to mention that Kendall has a creative space or an art room which she uses frequently herself and also includes and welcomes other people into quite frequently as well.
01:00:41
Speaker
Art seems to be something that really brings her a great amount of joy and is just an activity that she enjoys to partake in in her own intimate space and she has her own intimate relationship with creating art.
01:00:56
Speaker
So even though she's able to go to things like Art Basel, like Bianca mentioned, and connect with celebrity artists, I did get a genuine feeling of appreciation from her, unlike some of the other people we talked about today.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, I just felt like she seemed really happy in her little art room and she seemed very excited to show everyone that she had this space and I thought she was very Sweet and talking about you know, I don't feel like I am the best creator in the world But it's something that I enjoy doing and I think for for us or for me personally that's always like a mission I'm trying to
01:01:38
Speaker
Complete is just having people appreciate what art is and and how it functions and how it's made and I just I felt very Happy to see that from her and and yeah, I just I really appreciated it
01:01:55
Speaker
I did too, and I thought she was so cute when they were showing the painting that she was making, and it was a little like camp scene. I thought it was sweet.
Reflecting on Art Display and Ownership Responsibility
01:02:03
Speaker
We hope you found this discussion relevant and inclusive in regards to today's pop culture. We know that we've been talking a lot about traditional museum environments, but we promise that
01:02:17
Speaker
That knowledge is essential in creating other conversations like the one that we had for today. So going back to my original comment of suggesting we know the elite or the wealthy own art, you know, what's the big deal? I hope in comparing these private collections you now understand
01:02:36
Speaker
which patrons, celebrities, or collectors are giving that work the proper care and respect it deserves from both a preservation conceptual or genuine human interest standpoint. Bianca and I
01:02:50
Speaker
own art. You as a listener might own art or one day you will have some kind of original artwork in your home. Whether you are able to acquire a work of art by a well-known artist or a local artist, please use today's discussion to think more about how you want to display or install that piece of artwork because it does matter.
01:03:16
Speaker
As always, we are never exempt from the issues or the conversations that we have on ArtPopTalk. And we want to urge you that if you're looking for more information on how to navigate these concepts that we talked about today, do not forget that you can always head over to our resources page where all of this information will be. And as always, please contact Bianca and I at artpoptalk at gmail.com because we would love to have a conversation with you about it.
01:03:44
Speaker
Gianna, I had so much fun today. Thank you so much for watching Architectural Digest videos, and I'm really excited to also keep watching them and just keep talking about this and more things. I had a lot of fun today, thank you. Oh, I did too, for sure. As soon as the episode started, I was like, this is my favorite and it hasn't even happened yet. Well, with that, I think we will talk to you on Tuesday. Bye, everyone.
01:04:40
Speaker
you