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Right Place, Right Thyme w/ Sharon Sherman
40 Plays1 year ago
This week we're joined by our friend Sharon Sherman of Thyme and Place Design. Tune in for more amazing insights from an interior design professional.
Find Sharon here: https://www.instagram.com/thymeandplacedesign
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Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:29
Speaker
The American Craftsmen Podcast is sponsored by Hayfla. Hayfla offers a wide range of products and solutions for the woodworking and furniture making industries. From hinges and drawer slides to connectors and dowels, sandpaper, shop carts, wood glue, and everything in between. Exclusive product lines such as looks LED lighting and Slido door hardware ensure that every project you create is built to last. Learn more at hayfla.com.
Meet Sharon Sherman - Interior Designer
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome back. Did James Brown get you there? I love James Brown. I do feel good. We love James Brown too. So we're joined today by our new friend, Sharon Sherman. Well, maybe not new. Sort of old. New meeting in person friends. Yeah, that's true. So what do you think of us?
00:01:14
Speaker
So far, so good. Far of our designer showcase series. Yeah. So you're, um, what the third interior designer we've had on. Well, I guess number three, I'll take three. I could have been one, but it's okay. Three is not bad. It's a good number. Universal number three. Yeah. What did my son say? He's five. He said, have you ever heard, uh, first is the worst. Second's the best. And third, I forget what he said. It was something I didn't recognize, but you know how kids are when they're five, they just come home from school with these, you know,
00:01:44
Speaker
The wisdom of children should never be overlooked. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, because they're completely unadulterated.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, they're not limited by what they perceive, what they understand.
Unique Perspectives from Children
00:01:56
Speaker
You know, it's all new. It's all there for their astonishment and their discovery. You know, unfortunately as adults, I think we lose some of that, which is really kind of sad. Yeah, that's one of the best parts about having a kid is they remind you of all these things that, you know, you've forgotten over, you know, I just turned 35. So over 35 years you forget all of these simple things and, you know,
00:02:21
Speaker
And then they become adult children. Yeah, that's a topic for another podcast. Yeah, that was like my mom. She's like, I can't believe you're 35. You know, I still remember the day you were born.
00:02:31
Speaker
I have a 30 year old, same thing. Yeah, same thing. Amazing, right? But it is, it's really nice to be here
Collaboration and Networking
00:02:38
Speaker
with you guys. And the fact that you were so close to where I am in New Jersey is even more exciting. We were talking about the fact that we met on Clubhouse, that crazy, momentary, exciting new format that was out, which I think is still probably running, but since I'm back to work quite as much, not on
00:02:58
Speaker
But I do believe that, you know, the universe conspires to bring people together as they should. And I think that was definitely a way to bring us together. And it just took a little while until it turned into something a little bit more. But I'm very excited about what we're going to be doing together. Yeah. It's definitely a long game, you know, in this industry, you know, you make connections and it takes a lot of time to
00:03:21
Speaker
to get linked up with someone and to finally collaborate on a project. Because everybody is so... I don't know, it's not set in their ways, but everyone has someone and we can only accomplish so many projects per year. So it's like to get into something new, it's really a big commitment and it could be a big jump.
Overcoming Fear in Career
00:03:39
Speaker
And it's fear. You know, I think I always say they're the strongest emotions, right? They're fear and love. So fear of trying something new, loving maybe who you are involved with currently, whether it sounds like a personal relationship here. But, um, you know, for me, it just was the next natural step. I'm like, there's a reason that I met these guys. And, um, I think it's, it's time for me to get over my fear of trying something new. And, um, I feel really good about it. I'm really excited about these projects that are coming up.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's great.
Journey into Interior Design
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do and, um, maybe the origins of, you know, how you got into design and 5,000 years ago in the galaxy for far, far away. I am actually, you know, they talk about being a cradle Catholic. I am a cradle interior designer. So that is what I went to school for. Cool. Um, it started, we grew up, I, we didn't have a lot of money and, um, a lot of the furnishings in our home.
00:04:38
Speaker
came from things that my mom would find on the side of the road that we would take home and lovingly restore. I think that's where my love for antiques came from and really restoring things and understanding how things are designed and how they're built and how they're put together. And that was probably the beginning of it. And then went to school, studied interior design, got a job working with a very well-known store that was very, very involved in high-end interior design.
00:05:08
Speaker
And I realized that this isn't quite what I wanted. And I was very bold, you know, back in the day, which was many, many years ago, um, you used to use the yellow pages to find a place to go to work. I brought that up before. So now I've dated myself. Thank you very much. And, um, I was flipping through the yellow pages saying, what am I going to do with this degree? And I had this great internship and I very boldly.
00:05:34
Speaker
Um, sent out 20 resumes to 20 different places, three of the people I knew. Um, and from that I got five interviews and one of them was the kitchen and bath design, um, showroom and they offered me a job and I, I took it and that was 1982. So I have been doing this really long time and then I was 40 and a client of mine said to me.
00:06:00
Speaker
If you don't go into your own business, you're going to look back when you're 60 and kick yourself in the tail. And he said it to me often enough. He did not offer any financial assistance. He just was offering me the thought that I should really do this on my own. And in 2002, I launched
00:06:16
Speaker
launched time and place design because it was time for me to get my own place. And that was how the company started. And, you know, 22 years now, I've been doing what I love, which is really kitchens, bathrooms, millwork, and then associated interior design.
00:06:35
Speaker
if it's the right client in the right situation because you know, furniture is lovely and fabrics are lovely, but my love is really the woodworking, like walking into your shop, smelling the sawdust, feeling the wood, knowing that it came from something that was alive and you know, just connecting with those materials for me is what's really profoundly important. So as they come into my client's homes,
00:07:02
Speaker
It really is taking that and bringing it into someone's home, which is their sanctuary, which is really their private escape from the world and bringing those natural materials in and helping those be in places that, let's face it, kitchens are really important.
00:07:18
Speaker
When you know about food and preparing food, that's a love language for a lot of people, nourishing their families and in other rooms of homes and bathrooms and even designing furniture. It's a very intimate thing to do is to build a piece of furniture that's going to be part of somebody's home.
00:07:37
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And something that serves the client, you know, we're working on like a sofa table right now for a client. And we've gone back and forth, you know, about four or five times already just refining, making small changes just to, you know, we're trying to make it perfect. And, you know, she's, she's has a long history of, you know, she found an interior designer to do her kitchen and everything.
00:08:01
Speaker
in a magazine who did it remotely from San Francisco back in the 80s. Wow. And she still has it like, you know, and that's what we talk about. It's like we want to design things that people keep for 30, 40, 50, 100 years. And that's important to me, you know, so many of my clients will call me back and they'll say,
00:08:20
Speaker
Charit, you remember when you did my kitchen, right? It was 20 plus years ago and we're selling the house and I just want you to know people come in and they're like, wow, you just redid the kitchen.
What Defines Luxury in Design?
00:08:30
Speaker
And that's really important to me. So we really describe our company as creating timeless luxury. And luxury for me is comfort. Luxury for me is personalization. Luxury for me is quality. Luxury for me as a respect for the products.
00:08:45
Speaker
So that's creating that timeless luxury and using it in a way that I call creating soulful interiors, right? So that really have that connection because I think, you know, I go for walks in the morning and I just see furniture just cast off on the side of the road. That's not a really high quality. I mean, what I was able to collect with my mother when I was younger was it's a different quality of furniture. And yeah, we took some crazy old piece of maple furniture. I painted it, you know, black lacquer and put bright yellow lacquer drawer covers on it.
00:09:15
Speaker
Um, so I changed the changed it, but keeping things out of a landfill, I mean, you know, the construction industry and the furniture industry is a huge contributor to landfill waste. And, and I think it's really important that we are building things that are going to last and that stand the test of time. I'm not a trend follower. I do a lot of industry talks and they're always like, what's the latest trend? And I'm like, I can't really speak to what the latest trend is because I just know what's important to me. And it's not, Oh, this is the latest shade of whatever that you're going to put in. That's going to be out next year.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's important. They've already figured out what works, you know, they figured that out a thousand years ago. Yeah, we just need to interpret it, you know, into something that works for today. Yeah. You know, we have books back here. What is the what that Italian guy we did a whole our whole season two was about the 12 periods of American furniture.
00:10:06
Speaker
And we talked about, you know, the Genesis, you know, they were harkening back to the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans. And, you know, they had all the proportion and everything figured out then. Before books of architects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AI in Design - Friend or Foe?
00:10:20
Speaker
You know, there's a there's a big movement that's happening. I'm sure you guys are familiar with it called the science of design.
00:10:25
Speaker
And it's really talking about Don Ruggles as an architect and he's really done a lot of research into this and talking about how we perceive beauty and how you look at things and you look at classic architecture and you can just see those patterns that were created. Yes, absolutely, which is still so totally true today. And I think those are important, especially, you know,
00:10:48
Speaker
I'm a big naysayer of some AI work that's done because it's like anybody now can type anything into a computer with a couple of keys and have something pop up, which really is just taking parts of all these things that have already been created. And they're like, I'm creating products. And I'm like, no, you're really just plagiarizing what other people have done, but you're letting the computer take the blame for it. You know, I think that's the human aspect that has been lost. And I'm really hoping
00:11:15
Speaker
that that starts to come back into the world of design and into the world of furniture and interiors and homes.
00:11:22
Speaker
and clients know the difference. AI can only take you so far. You can tell AI, design me a 240 inch white oak wall unit with two windows equally spaced. Okay, it'll give you something, but then you start to look at all the nuances that need to be addressed. You need a human who really knows what they're doing to be able to problem solve and figure out all of these little things and how to make them work.
00:11:47
Speaker
and how it fits into someone's life and how they're going to use it and how they live. You can't prompt that to come back with something that is created for someone else.
Human Connection in Design
00:11:57
Speaker
And you know, I think it's a great tool. I think we can use it in certain ways. I just hope that the public and clients really understand that the human centric factor really needs to still be there.
00:12:09
Speaker
that we can create things and adapt things in ways that I'm not convinced AI can, although I'm a big sci-fi fan. And when you're saying a galaxy far, far away, in the future, could it be? Probably. I'm old enough that maybe I won't have to see it because it would make me very, very sad. But I think that that human stamp, like what you guys are doing every time you handle a piece of wood and every time you create something,
00:12:39
Speaker
That is not going to be done by a picture that's generated by a computer.
Reiki and Energy in Design
00:12:44
Speaker
And, you know, I mean, I, I, the other side of my business that not everyone knows, I have a wellness business is called timeless wellbeing and I do Reiki work. Oh, I go for Reiki. And that energy work is, you know, really important. It's that same connection. It's that universal energy that is coming through someone.
00:13:01
Speaker
and then going into someone else that you can't do it through a computer, you can't do it through a keyboard. I've never done Reiki. That was really cool. I do have a massage appointment on next Saturday. Like your massage in trade, many, many years ago, I helped someone out who does Reiki and she wants to give me Reiki for life.
00:13:29
Speaker
I would accept it, especially if it's a good practitioner. And it's really just tapping into that energy and tapering into that greater source energy that cannot be put into a machine. And I think that's what's super important.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, we believe in the same things as far as longevity and the human connectivity, the stuff we built for the church. You know, we've done a lot of work for St. Anthony's in Red Bank. We built confessionals and an altar rail. And the thought that the parishioners are going to be using this for many generations is it's
00:14:13
Speaker
It's pretty impactful.
Timeless Designs and Generational Impact
00:14:15
Speaker
You know, we like to put that same kind of thought into everything that we do. And clients will say to me, how did you know it was in my head? How did you know what I needed? How did you change the energy in my home? When people say things like that, too, you're like,
00:14:33
Speaker
You know, it's really interesting to know what I'm doing. And I do know what I'm doing. Um, we intuit a lot of things, but you know, that's really what design's about. It's changing the environment of the space that people live and changing it for the better. Obviously you don't want to change it for the worse. And, um, it's really interesting. I took a client who was buying furniture. I was getting counterstool spore and they wanted to be able to try out the counterstool. So like, okay, I called another client said, Hey, can we come over? She's like, sure.
00:15:01
Speaker
Bring one over. And these clients came in and they were sitting on the stools. And the client who was test sitting kept grabbing his hands on the countertop. And he is like, what is this? I said, this is a beautiful quartzite material. He goes, well, why doesn't my countertops feel like this? I said, well, I tried to explain this to you. You guys wanted something else, which is beautiful and works well. He goes, but it doesn't feel like this.
00:15:30
Speaker
I said, well, it's, you know, it's not, it's got natural quartz crystals in it. So it's, it's an energy, you know, conductor and amplifier. And he's like, I think we have to do another room in the house and put this in. So, um, maybe we're going to be able to work that in with the next wall unit that you're going to build for me. But people are starting to connect with it. And I think that's, that's important. You know, that's a really important, uh, thing that I think that will, will make a difference in the world of design.
00:15:58
Speaker
People tell their friends and family about their experiences and how you could have something put in and people say, oh yeah, it looks great. But when they tell you this made the room feel completely different, it's a whole other level of design and millwork when it's something that's palpable and not just like, oh yeah, it looks nice, looks like a picture I saw online.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's that different connection and those connections are, you know, that's what we can't do without human connections, right? Really super important.
00:16:32
Speaker
I mean, you guys love what you do, right? You can see it. You've come from different backgrounds. You've found something that you can really put your heart and soul into and you know it's going into somebody's home and a little bit of that heart and soul goes along with it. That's why I love antiques so much. It comes with the story of wherever this piece of furniture has been. And now you're part of the story of that furniture and it's part of your story. And that's what's so cool about it.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah. It's a shame we've talked about it before. Like there's no, not no, but there's like very little antique furniture being made right now. Like that will become an antique because it just, it doesn't last. Yeah. It's fast fashion. That's, you know, that's really a problem. Not intended to last. It's not intended till I read the planned obsolescence. Right. And yet I will say like my kids who are your age, my kids who are looking for things. I was visiting down in Charlotte and, um,
00:17:26
Speaker
My son's fiance is like, hey, you wanna go to an antique small? I'm like, sure. They had such a good time. I had a great time looking at everything. She's like, you know what all of this stuff is? I'm like, well, I'm a little passionate about it. They love finding these things that they can then take and then bring into their homes. Down in High Point Market, the antique section down there. It's gotta be the best. My God, it's like Nirvana. You just, you wander through and you just pass your hands over some of the things that are there and you're like,
00:17:56
Speaker
look what this has seen. Like his butt has been in that chair, you know, and where was the chair when they were sitting in it. And those are, you know, those are within beautiful parts of these old pieces of furniture. And that's why I think it's changing a little, you know, we're like, oh, nobody wants all the old stuff in my house. Well, they probably do if it's a, if it's a good quality and it's well made and well designed, you know, if it's something that is not well made and not designed, then no, probably nobody's going to want it. But I think it, I think there's hopeful,
00:18:25
Speaker
that there is a turn that's happening and that people are starting to appreciate some of these things again. And I know I'm very busy, so I'm going to assume that may be the case. You are obviously very busy, so for you it is the case. And I think it's just a mindset we have to adapt.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, even for like the mass produced stuff, you know, we would love, I mean, why isn't High Point the furniture capital of the world anymore? You know, it was all shipped overseas and actually, you know, a lot of this stuff is being made for a loss or at least it was in the very beginning. You know, the overseas markets intentionally brought the prices down to the point where they could just take the market share.
00:19:10
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I think there is an increasing demand for domestically made furniture that may cost a little bit more, but it will last.
00:19:20
Speaker
And it can be transmuted, right? You can change the finish, you can change the hardware, you can reupholster things. I'd love to see that start to come back into Vogue. For my clients, it is, because again, we're creating something that is timeless, although it's spelled a little bit different. T-H-Y-M-A less.
00:19:41
Speaker
More Herbie. More Herbie, a little kitchen related. But, you know, the problem has always been, oh, it's so expensive, it's so this. But if you're buying that one thing five times over its lifetime, instead of buying that one thing once, you know, I think people have a tough time
00:20:00
Speaker
looking at the long term of what it is and having things produced here. We have the ability to produce fabulous things, the craftsmanship, the thought that goes into it. You know, when you think of some of the great furniture styles, they are designers that were born here, crafted here, you know, making furniture pieces here. And same thing with design work, right? That's just beautiful. And I think we need to honor that American tradition that may have been just a little bit lost, but hopefully is coming back again.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I like those thoughts. I mean, these are topics we've discussed ourselves, you know, where is, you know, not just the industry headed, but, you know, we have to sort of cater to what our clients are asking for.
00:20:49
Speaker
And there are times where we say, not this again. But it's also working with the right clients, right? Having the right people find you. I have had people yell at me. I've had people hang up on me. I've had people say awful things to me because I'm at a different price point than they were expecting to spend. And
00:21:13
Speaker
You know, it's like, well, it's not the cheapest. You're not the cheapest. I'm like, no, I'm not the cheapest. There's a reason. And then I have some people call me back and say, we didn't use you when we're really sorry. And can you fix this now? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know. It's going to cost even more to fix it. Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
You know, I think the client, the consumer, I'm going to use the word consumer, right?
Consumer Misconceptions & Trade Critiques
00:21:43
Speaker
I think they've really been sold a sorry tale about what
00:21:48
Speaker
they should buy and what they should want. You know, that everything should have a discount, that everything should be on sale. And I always, I used to say to my kids like, wow, mom, look, this is 50% off. I'm like, no, it's not. It's really the price it should be, but they want you to think that you're getting a bargain so that you buy more. And, um, you know, there's becomes a tipping point. Really? Like how many, how many do you need? How many do you need? You start to run out of space for things.
00:22:15
Speaker
And again, my hope is that this next generation, your age generation, is starting to get it. And I think they're starting to make a difference. And I hope that continues.
00:22:27
Speaker
I don't know if you experienced the same thing, but for us, it's like clients have been programmed now to think that we're always trying to take advantage of them, that because our price is higher because of the way that we do things, that the reasoning behind that is because we're trying to take advantage of them. I mean, if we showed them the books, it's very clear that we're not. We're not getting rich.
00:22:53
Speaker
Exactly, right? So we're not getting rich, but the owners of these stores that are selling this really low end stuff, they're making a bundle. So what does that tell you, right? What does that really say? I think a lot of our trade
00:23:10
Speaker
So here's my perspective. I think of a lot of our trade associations have done a disservice to the professionals in the industry by instead of promoting what we do as a profession and the value that we bring to a project, or you can go get free design anywhere. It's $99.99 and you can have a drawing done that's completely done for your house.
00:23:34
Speaker
How is that? You know, what thought goes into that? And I think that kind of that aspect of everything can be done cheaper has has been ingrained in people. And it's really hard for those of us who are trying to explain what the difference is. But then by the same token,
00:23:53
Speaker
would those people ever really understand or want to understand? I think people have a mindset that, nope, what you're doing, you're just charging too much money for all this stuff. But when you start to break it down and you look at the details that go into each of these things. And here's a perfect example. We did a very large project for a client.
00:24:12
Speaker
and they were doing a powder room. And she said, no, no, no, I can do all this on my own. I don't really, you know, I don't need you guys to get involved. My contractor did the construction. She goes, I'm going to get, I'm going to order everything myself. And I'm like, okay.
00:24:26
Speaker
And I almost want to say, just make sure you don't get, and then I stopped myself and I said, nope, this is not for you. You were just told that your expertise is not needed. This is on you. This is on you. And I felt badly, but she was intent. So about two months went by and she called me up and she said,
00:24:46
Speaker
all of the fittings that we put into the bathroom are falling apart. And this is leaking and that can't get fixed. And what do I do? I'm like, you know, I can take the trims out, but I got to open the wall to do that. And that's what we ended up doing. We had to cut through a closet on the other side of the room to take all the valves out. We had to make all these changes. And she's like, I don't understand what happened. I said, well, you bought the cheapest possible thing that you can purchase.
00:25:16
Speaker
The longevity on it is not there. The parts that go inside to it are not there. The customer service obviously was not there because she was told too bad. And, you know, she got burned and I felt really badly for her. But I said, now make sure you tell this story, right? Because that's a story that needs to to get out there and say, yeah, we bought something that's not going to last. And I made the mistake. Yes, thank you for coming back and fixing it. But they're not going to believe it coming from me. And I think that's the difference.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's that Dunning-Kruger, you know, we run into that a lot with clients where you know this much about design or furniture, cabinetry, and they, you know, they fancy themselves on an equal playing field with us. And I think a lot of it has to do with the internet, right? Because you can learn, you can do anything. You can build a battleship by going on the internet and reading it and you can do it.
00:26:08
Speaker
Again, I just think that the idea of the expertise and the professionalism and the knowledge and the training kind of goes back to what I said earlier about AI, that anybody can do it and it doesn't really take that extra special ability. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that that's starting to reverse a little bit more.
00:26:29
Speaker
I believe it is. As I said, I'm really booked with work, so I know people are coming. And people come to hear me talk. I mean, I speak all over the country, and I just came back from Las Vegas. I was at the International Service Event, and I did three presentations, and I did a show floor tour.
00:26:47
Speaker
And at my tour, so it was all about kitchen and bath products. And this is a great little show. It really is, especially for things that are really geared toward surfaces. So it's flooring, it's countertop material, it's tile. They have got, they show you how countertops are made. I mean, all these things that nobody understands, you know, kind of what goes into it. So I had 25 people, they said to me, your tour is sold out. And I'm like, well, I was pretty impressed, right? So I have the gathering all these people and like, okay, what does everybody do?
00:27:17
Speaker
exploring countertops. I said, why in the world do you want to tour with me? And they said, we really want to hear what you have to say about these products and what you, in your expertise, in your experience, why you would choose these products. And I was like,
00:27:34
Speaker
That's honoring me. I was blown away. I was so humbled by that. But the thought that people are looking for that expertise, even within the industry, people are looking for that expertise. And it was a good feeling. And we had a great time. And plus I'm also networking. Cause I gave a talk also on the secret sauce of networking. And so I was like, wait, you need to talk to her because they're trying to do this. And so those two went off and they got something going. And then this other person I'm like, so now those connections are all starting to bubble.
00:28:04
Speaker
And that's really part of the collective consciousness, right? So the more that you talk about this, the more it gets out into the air, right? They always say, if you think it, you speak it, you'll see it. And I think that's what's really most
The Podcast as an Idea Exchange
00:28:16
Speaker
important. The more we talk about it, and the more we put these ideas out there, the more it will generate more like ideas.
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. It's part of the reason we do the podcast, you know, we're putting out our ideas and, you know, we get other ideas back and it does, it sort of, um, manifests itself a lot of times. You know, I, I really want to go back to the days when Norm was the sexiest man alive. Do you remember that? Do you remember those days? I, when I was, I was a young designer working for this company and, um,
00:28:50
Speaker
the craftsmen that were doing the installations, they were all the old time guys, right? That, and when I started, there were no such thing as air nailers. These guys were still using a nail, a hammer to put up molding. Jeff's done that. Yeah. And I remember, and it's a good that you do it so that you learn. Cause I remember when we got that air nailer, they would all plot their jobs out. So they would all get to the moldings on a different day so they could have that compressor, right? But they worshiped.
00:29:16
Speaker
everything that was going on in that show and how there was an honor to those homes. Fortunately, where I am, there are a lot of those homes and people are trying to honor that. And the project you're going to be working on for me, right? It's in an old turn of the 20th century home that has got craggy walls and saggy floors and plaster and all, but they really want to honor that home. And they're also young. They're a fairly young family.
00:29:45
Speaker
And I think that's really, that's what I was talking about. Like if you say it, you'll see it, it'll happen. That's what's starting to come back again. And I see that this old house is actually doing internship programs now and they're bringing people into the trades, which is really, really cool.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah. Back when I started that show meant a lot, you know, it was one of the few sources of information outside of books. Yeah. And, um, uh, I've mentioned this before on the podcast. I met Norm on a job. I did you.
00:30:18
Speaker
I was volunteering with the Sierra Club for the Forest Service. We were doing this preservation work and they came out to film. And the thing is, he's nicer and more skilled and more humble than
00:30:38
Speaker
than you could even imagine. He was everything and more. They say don't meet your heroes, but in this case, I was just blown away. Yeah. And we need more
Learning from Craftsmen
00:30:52
Speaker
of that. I mean, I learned a lot about building and construction, watching that show, plumbing and HVAC. What did I know about any of that? Watching that. I learned a lot from the guys that worked at the
00:31:06
Speaker
job where I was working at the time is, you know, what did I know, you know, designers aren't taught any of this. And I always say that any interior designer that wants to go into any form of the kitchen and math world needs to learn this stuff. And I, I have a lot of designers that I coach, they'll call me and say, you know, I'm trying to put design a hood, what do I need to know? And I'm like, how can they not teach you any of this stuff in design school? What are you guys learning? And there's not really a lot of places that you can, you can learn all of these things. And then in my
00:31:36
Speaker
my younger days at this other job, I worked new construction. So I actually had nine multifamily housing projects going. And at the time I really learned from the job supers that were on the job site. Yes, it was a trial by fire. Yes, I lived through the Me Too movement when I was in my early 20s.
00:31:55
Speaker
But I learned a lot from them. I respected them. I gained their respect because I was willing to learn and I could speak intelligently to how things needed to be done and needed to be built. And if I didn't know, I wasn't afraid to ask. I think that's another thing that's missing a little bit today. Nobody wants to have to learn. I'll let somebody else take care of that. And that's one of the things I wrote about ties like this is the perfect place to go.
00:32:17
Speaker
If you really want to increase your knowledge and expertise and be of value to both your construction team and your client, because you are, I'm the center of everything goes on in my projects, right? Because if what's behind the walls isn't right, then my work in front of the walls isn't going to look the way it should. And my clients aren't really going to be served well.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah, just that constant, anyone can do it, but having the desire to learn, that's really the important part is wanting to know all of these things and then actually doing it. Yeah, and I think I brought a lot of that to the tour and I didn't lose anybody. I started with 25 people, I ended with 25 people, I thought that was a big deal. And I think those things are kind of important. Even John, who's down in South Carolina, right? I keep threatening to bring him up here to New Jersey.
00:33:07
Speaker
You know, he is out there teaching people and he's got a bunch of friends as well. I know that show every once in a while in his Instagram posts. Um, and I know you guys are connected to him. And I think that, you know, it's people starting to watch it again. You know, there's, they're learning from it. And, um, I think it's important. Yeah. So you have K biz coming up in, uh, four, four weeks from today, three week. Yeah. Just, just about, uh, what do you have going on?
00:33:37
Speaker
Well, so I have a couple of things. So Signature Kitchen Suite. I mean, have you heard of the appliance company, Signature Kitchen Suite? Oh yeah. Yeah. So they, I just finished the kitchen with their product. They're doing a great job. I was just invited to be part of their design collective. Nice. So we've got some things that are going on in the Signature Kitchen Suite booth. They are having a special event at the New American Home, which I go to every time I can go to KBIS because that's really interesting to see what's going on in that world.
00:34:06
Speaker
I am giving a talk on Wednesday morning called Creating Style with Tile. And it is bridging the gap between quiet luxury, which is what I like to say my style is, and my friend Rachel Moriarty from Rachel Moriarty Interiors in San Diego. She is bold maximalism. So it's bridging that gap with tile. It's two hour workshops. So that's going to be fun. Hopefully I'm going to hone my skills with my chief architect program a little bit more. And I had a
00:34:36
Speaker
an editorial advisory board, KBB magazine. I am on their editorial advisory board. So we're going to have a meeting and kind of talk about some of the issues that are going on in the world of kitchen and bath. Plus getting around to all the booths, seeing the builder show, seeing all the attractive things that are going on. It's a monster. It's so big. Our legs were like destroyed. It's a million square feet. Yeah. You have to plan really, really, really well.
00:35:03
Speaker
and try to tackle one hall at a time and be strategic in where you're going and what you're seeing. But you can, you really can see everything if you're careful about the way you go about it.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, when we went, it was I think 2019, right before COVID. So yeah, 2019. And we did, what was it? The full three days. So we did K-Biz the first two days. And then on the last day, we finally made it into IBS. And it was like, we like burned through it in 20 minutes. Cause we were, you're just burnt out by that point. Yeah, you are burnt out. I think you have to go with a mission, like know what you want to see. If you're looking for specific products, you know, fine. Okay. I'm going to focus on finding these four products.
00:35:45
Speaker
Because there's so many new things that are out there. There's always the big guys that have the loudest, the loudest noise, the biggest music, the biggest booth. But even like I found when I was out in Vegas this last time, I found this great company Protect All Flooring. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is beautiful. I'm gonna be able to use this on a project. I hadn't heard from them before. And they had a booth that was the size of this desk. But I try to look for the smaller companies that can be impactful and make a difference and appreciate the business.
00:36:13
Speaker
Yeah, we tell all of our outside sales reps, some are better than others. Rich, who you met is great from Hayfla. He's the best out of all of them that we have. But we tell him, it's like, we need you to educate us just on what you have. When you get something new, tell us about it. Because if we don't know you have it, we can't buy it from you.
00:36:33
Speaker
And if you're a small company, so look, I worked for a company that at the time was one of the 50 top remodelers in the country. They had that designation. So we would go to something like KBIS. We would blow in there with our whole team and we were VIPs. So we were totally toured through all of the booths.
Challenges of Solo Practitioners
00:36:51
Speaker
The companies were wine and dine and entertain us. When I left, that all went away.
00:36:57
Speaker
And I'm still the same designer. I'm still working in the business, but all of a sudden I'm not with this name brand company anymore. So what does that mean? I couldn't get people to talk to me. Plus I was a woman. So here I am a solopreneur female designer going to these things and they look at me and like, I'd ask a question and all the other people standing. And I'm like, really? So I very quickly learned, you know, that
00:37:23
Speaker
I was on my own and I really had to change the way I went about finding new products. And if I had a question and it was a sales rep and I ask a question, they didn't know how to answer it. They would literally just turn and walk away from me. And I'm like, what are you doing? You know, this is terrible. So it's different. And that's why, yeah, you need really good sales reps. I have one sales rep who is phenomenal. And I wish he could rep every single thing that I, you know, that I purchased, which I know I can't.
00:37:51
Speaker
because other people, I saw things and I'll call the company with a question and go, who were you?
00:37:55
Speaker
I'm like, well, I'm the person that gave you $200,000 for the business last year. They're like, huh? So I think that's tough for smaller businesses. You need a good rep and I really value my reps. I mean, they're so important. We just lost a good one. Our machinery rep, he got out of the business, but he was irreplaceable. I agree. I mean, I'm going to miss him, not just professionally. I'm going to miss him personally.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, he was a real, had a serious shop, you know, doing a lot of work, like they had like 80 employees or something. Wow. Big, real big. You can't replace someone who has that field experience, you know, with someone who doesn't have any.
00:38:48
Speaker
And that's what I started to value in myself. Because I'm like, what have I got to offer? And I look at it, I've been in this business for 40 years. When at it's actually a little longer than that, 82, 42 years, oh my God. I have seen it, you know? And I've had younger designers look at me and go, well, what do you know?
00:39:11
Speaker
How can you possibly know what's current and what's happening? And I'm like, really? It's interesting. And I've come to realize I do have that experience. I have probably seen it somewhere along the way. I've had to overcome that obstacle. I've had to solve that problem. I've seen the business change. I've been through four downturns in the economy. I'm still here.
00:39:34
Speaker
Like I have walked every single step in your shoes. I have experienced every triumph, every defeat that you have experienced and I've survived. And not everybody can say that, right? There's so many people that have gone out of business or not in the business anymore. And I think that says something about who I am and what I've learned and what I have to bring to you. That's one of the reasons I started doing a lot of these talks because I can help other people like not make the same mistakes when I wasn't getting any help.
00:40:03
Speaker
And that's been a big part of it. That's really going to be my legacy to the industry is what I can do to help the next generation coming through. They just have to be willing to listen. Yeah. It's the school of hard knocks. You know, they're the hardest learned lessons, but they're the best lessons. You have to mess up or run into these issues in order to learn and get into that next, you know,
00:40:26
Speaker
These last two talks I gave them and I had 200 people in the room and they stayed. And afterward, they're asking me questions. I'm like, this is great. So people really, it's turning. I really do want to believe that the tide is turning and that we really are looking to make those business connections. And there is a secret sauce of networking and there are ways to manage difficult clients and there are ways to forge new bonds and friendships and business connections that will help all of us if we just have that mindset.
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah, and rather than having this adversarial sort of situation where it's, you're against the other designers and we're against the other, no, we should all be working together and collaborating and sharing. If I find a new way to make a cabinet faster, I should be telling everyone I know. Yeah. And I think, you know, our differences are really what makes us better. That's why Rachel and I doing this, you know, bridge in the gap between quiet luxury and bold maximalism. What is the bridge there? You know, would somebody that really likes my style hire her? Would somebody that likes her style hire me?
00:41:24
Speaker
You know, but there is a way in between and you can collaborate together. I've done that with a couple of designers. I'm like, this is so far out of my realm of what I would like to do. Would you like to do this together? Like, yeah, you know, and then we both benefit. You just have to take the ego off the table. Once you can, once you can brush that aside, know that you're both really good at what you do and you have different gifts, just bring your, your, your time and your talent to the table and let's see what we can do together.
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, there's plenty to go around. Yeah, we have other cabinet shops on the podcast. Yeah. People do exactly the same thing we do. We're friends. We promote each other. You're going to get better by helping each other. Yeah, we always say, you know, rising tide raises all ships. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. If we can get clients to value cabinet makers as a whole more, it's good for everyone. Right.
00:42:17
Speaker
I shouldn't be against the success of another cabinet maker. I should be completely for it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't want to see any cabinet shop close. Well, that's putting out the right energy, right? If you're putting out, you know, Karma, I love her. She, uh, she has her ways, you know, and I do think if you're, you know, if you don't have the right intentions, she's going to come back around, slap you in the back of the head and I've seen it multiple times.
00:42:43
Speaker
We always take the high road. Yeah. Yeah. That was like Michelle Obama, right? They go, they go low. We go high. Yeah. But I really do think that that is, that is the right approach. It is. Even just for your own emotions and everything, you know, when you at the end of the day can lay your head on the pillow and say, you know, I did the right thing. That's it.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely important. Integrity is everything. Yeah. And one of the things I talk about is you can't do business on a handshake. I've signed multimillion dollar contracts on a handshake and you can't do that anymore. And isn't that sad?
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah. We've talked about it before. We had a, we did a, um, commercial job up in Newark for a new residential building and got stiffed on final and had to, you know, um, file a lien. And it was, it was a process. Yeah. And you, you know, you're, you wonder why, you wonder why there seems to this idea of, Oh, you know, if I don't pay them, I'm going to get something out of this. And it's,
00:43:48
Speaker
again, takes time, but it will come back around. Oh, yeah. It will come back. Well, funny enough. So that was, you know, say two years ago, about a year ago, 10 months ago. Big envelope of papers, you know, two inches thick show up in the mail like, oh, crap, what's this? We're being served. Turns out
00:44:12
Speaker
County Essex never discharged the lien. So we were actually being shown as, you know, lien holders as, as ownership of this building. He was being sued by someone else that he didn't pay. And the sum of that was about 20 fold what he owed us. So. Yeah. It's a sick karma. She's, you know, she's on the side of the righteous. I do believe that. Yes.
00:44:36
Speaker
Something we always ask interior designers when they come on, because the listenership is largely other cabinet makers, furniture makers.
Finding the Right Collaborators
00:44:46
Speaker
What do you look for when you're looking to find someone new to work with? What good advice can you offer the listeners out there to help them? I told you my little story about somebody that I went to vet, right?
00:45:02
Speaker
I think everybody's expectation of quality is a little bit different. And I think it is important on both sides, the design side and on the fabricator side. Know what your tolerance levels are and know who your ideal client is. So I know what my tolerance level is.
00:45:21
Speaker
my intolerance level is probably a little bit higher. So I know that I'm going to look for certain details in the way cabinets are put together. I'm going to, and I did it in your shop, right? First thing I walked in, there's a beautiful piece of maple there and I'm kind of running my hand down the side of the panel to say, how is this, and I know it's not finished, but how does this feel now when the door is finished? What's going on around that detail? Am I going to run my fingers across chatter or is it going to be silky smooth?
00:45:51
Speaker
And that is what I'm looking for. So there's a level of quality in the craftsmanship that's going to be super important. The level of quality in the finish is going to be very important. How you present your drawings to me, because obviously I sent you autocad drawings, which were not
00:46:10
Speaker
They were pretty detailed. I mean, I'm not going to do shop drawings for you to build your cabinets from, but I'm going to give you a drawing that's going to show you what I'm expecting. And I'm going to expect that in return. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw your three D's. So that's going to be on the technical aspect of it.
00:46:32
Speaker
But I'm also looking for somebody that is going to have some integrity and honesty and similar ethics and values that I have, because that's who I want to work with, because I know that we are going to complement each other and that we're both going to be better for each other. So, you know, for me to get into business with somebody, it's like my talk about my work husband, my brother from another mother, you know, when I first met him, I was looking for a really good contractor to work with because I had worked with a couple who were
00:47:02
Speaker
really not good. And I just got a really good feeling from him and I love the client and I just said to him, I think we might be able to be really successful together. And it's been 18 years.
00:47:15
Speaker
and we bounce ideas off of each other. When I'm having a bad day, I can whine at him. He whines at me. We can talk through our problems. We talk every day. We have a job meeting every day, and it may just be only five minutes, but here's what's going on. We cover each other when we're away.
00:47:33
Speaker
And that is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a partnership in the business acumen that we're doing. I don't have to be on the paper business partners with you. My contractor and I are not. We run two completely separate businesses, but we support each other. I would never throw him under the bus. He would never throw me under the bus. If there's a problem, we try to solve it. Fortunately, I can help solve things and he'll see things and he'll fix them.
00:47:59
Speaker
And we both have a complete understanding that everything that we do is really for the solution and the final project that we're bringing to the client. So that's really important. Don't point out to me that I did something wrong because I can probably find four things that you did wrong that I didn't really mention, but I'm willing to accept. And I think don't point the finger blame. Stand up if you make a mistake, admit you made a mistake.
00:48:26
Speaker
Find it as it's going through, let's solve it before it turns into a major problem because it's so much smaller when it's here than when it's a finished product. So I think that's probably what I look for the most in someone that I go to work with.
00:48:39
Speaker
Well, hopefully that's sinking in for the listeners because Lindsay from Lindsay Marie Price Designs, who was on a couple of weeks ago, almost verbatim, it's the same thing. It's about teamwork, being solution oriented. When something happens, being forthcoming about it, how are we going to solve this issue? Because like you said, the issue starts out like this before the client know, the client doesn't have to know 99% of these things.
00:49:08
Speaker
The client should never know 99% of those things. So it's all about, you know, how are we going to get, give the client what they're expecting and what they deserve and come up with the solutions, you know, that it's going to take to get there. Yeah. And it may, you know, on the designer's part, it may require educating the fabricators a little bit at what they're really trying to achieve. On the fabricators part, it may be to say, you really can't build it this way, but you can build it this way. It'll have the same look.
00:49:37
Speaker
But if, you know, can we do this instead? Like I said to you with the shelves, I don't need two inch thick solid shelves. I can do a regular shelf with a nice beamed front edge. You're like, Oh, okay. Like talk through those solutions and talk through the different things that are going to make a difference in the way a product is constructed.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's the same thing. You know, a lot of cabinet makers and designers feel like they need to have this adversarial relationship where it's them against us. Well, it's ego. You have to always remember it's ego, and if somebody doesn't know something, they're much more likely to become defensive. And I think that's the problem.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah, there's a video going around and I won't get into what happens in the video, but the guy says, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance. Most people, if whatever something happens, I'm not going to think that you did it because you're trying to give us a hard time. It's just, you didn't know about, I'm not explaining this very well.
00:50:37
Speaker
No, I know exactly what you mean. You're not doing it on purpose. You're just doing it because you're unaware. Right. So just to say. And but you also by the same token of somebody says, hey, you can do it this way. Like I, I wanted to have something built a certain way. And I'm like, well, can't you just do this? And, you know, my guy finally said to me, no, because I need a saw that's like a 36 inch blade on it. I'm like, Oh, okay. I get it now. So you'd rather have it done this way. Yes. All right. Let's figure out a way to do it. Right.
00:51:03
Speaker
and then put the pieces together. So I think I know how it goes together, but by the same token, if I'm designing a specific detail on something, I'm like, well, why are you doing that? Well, because it's a reproduction of a detail that's already in the house and I'm trying to get that look so it seamlessly integrates into everything that's going on.
00:51:21
Speaker
Ah, okay, now I understand. Yeah, communication is, you know, key. We run into a little bit of that with budget. You know, we like to know the budget because there are ways we can alter how we're going to approach the design, the fabrication, the material choice. Like I said to you, if we don't use that, we're going to do this finish. Do we need that wood? You're like, oh no, you really don't. And that, you know, that will affect things. And as long as I can get that look,
00:51:49
Speaker
And it's going to, maybe we can do it for a little bit less. The client's going to be thrilled, right? I'll still make my money. You'll make your money and everybody's going to be happy. I think it's when you try to make too much money. That's where it becomes a little more difficult. And I try to be upfront with my clients. I'm like, look, you know, for me, cabinets for this, you know, cost this much money. And if they're like, well, I really want to do that, but I only want to spend this much. I'm like, then I'm not the one for you to do it.
00:52:12
Speaker
And we have to be willing to say that. We have to be willing to say, because as soon as you say to somebody, oh, well, I can try to do it for less, you're going to hate the job. You're going to hate the job. It's not going to turn out the way you want. It's definitely not going to turn out the way you want. It's not going to turn out what the client wants.
00:52:28
Speaker
And there's nothing worse than having that unhappy client who's going to be very happy to tell everybody that they're not happy. I want everybody singing my praises. The client's never going to blame themselves. Even if it is there, they made their own bed. I recently went to another client, someone was going to sit on chairs again, and my client
00:52:49
Speaker
Ended up wanting to face. We had certain cabinets picked out and they're like, you know, we just don't want to think we want to spend that much money. We want to do something less expensive. And I said, well, you have to understand what you're giving up. And I went through the whole list. They're like, no, for that much money, which was 2% of the project. It's not not a lot of money.
00:53:06
Speaker
Nope, we're not spending the money. So now everything is in and done. And the clients actually said to my client who was coming to sit test, you know, Sharon told us we really should have used these cabinets and we insisted and we really made a mistake, but don't tell her. So of course, as soon as we left, my client was like, you're never gonna believe what they said. That's a good client.
00:53:28
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, I think that's when it comes to budget, like you just have to, you have to know what you're getting and be upfront. And I warn them, like I do these cabinets and laundry rooms. They're like, no, we're not spending the money. Now they're like, we're going to be here another 20 years. We should have spent the money. It averages out to about $500 a year.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
Educating Clients on Quality vs. Price
00:53:47
Speaker
Value is something that people, they look at price, not value, which is, it's hard to. It's our job to change that though. It's our job to educate anybody who's listening, right? You're hearing these things. This is what we're hearing. This is what people are saying. And you just have to get comfortable with being able to communicate that to whomever you're working with. Yeah. You know, don't be afraid. And somebody may say to you, you know what, then I'm not working with you. Don't.
00:54:13
Speaker
don't mourn the door that just closed because you're probably going to miss the next door of opportunity that's going to open. And that's a really hard lesson. I teach designers this, a good designer friend of mine, she said, I listened to one of your talks when you said you can fire a client. And I'm like, well, it's not just firing clients, just understanding that might not be the right client for you. She goes, that's right. That is what you said. He goes, well, I realized that it was not the right client for me. And I, you know, I politely
00:54:40
Speaker
excuse myself in the project. And I left thinking, what am I going to do now? I have this huge hole in my schedule. She said the next day, somebody called and said, we're ready to move forward. So I said, there you go. That's really the law of cause and effect. And that's what you just have to remember. Fear and love, right? Two strongest emotions. I'm afraid that I'm going to lose this project, but here comes the project that you're going to love. And that could, that could change your career.
00:55:09
Speaker
Yeah. And you may have been too busy to take that on, you know, within the other project. We always say it's like, you know, when you get slow, it's like you always get to this point where it's like, it looks like it's going to get dark. And then somebody calls, you know, if you do good work, it always, it always comes in, you know. Energy, energy will take care of you. Karma will take care of you as long as you're on the right side.
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah. Should we take a moment to thank one of our sponsors? Oh yeah. My God. Thanks for remembering. When you need the right saw blade for the job, put your trust in Ridge carbide tools. That's right. For over 50 years, Ridge carbide has been producing industrial saw blades designed with exact specifications for the cutting results you expect. Before you buy, give Ridge carbide a call and they'll help you determine the right tool that meets your needs and your budget.
00:56:03
Speaker
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00:56:20
Speaker
We also want to thank our sponsor, Unida. You can use the code joinery, J-O-I-N-E-R-Y 15 at sandpaper.com and save 15%. We just stocked up on a bunch of the half inch. Are they half inch?
00:56:36
Speaker
No, it may be eight millimeter sponges in the the firm density in 180 and 320. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. A bunch of just three by four sandpaper. And we have some some dust adapters coming for the three by four sander and our Dynabraid sander as well. So don't overlook that prep work. That's how you get a good finish. Yeah. And Sharon just told us how important it is. So say 15 percent.
00:57:04
Speaker
You don't want any jagged cut edges on any of the woodworking in your home.
00:57:09
Speaker
Oh, forget about that. The scuffing that goes on in between coats. Yeah. It's putting the finish on is the fast part. It's all that sanding, you know, all the prep. It's kind of like putting makeup on, you know, it's all the way you finish it. I might have to try that. Oh boy. Yeah. You know, we get like a light and we have like a raking light. When you're sanding, you can see all these little, that's when you really see the imperfections. And I can see it.
00:57:39
Speaker
I can see it. I can see a quarter inch out of level and 10 feet and people are like, how do you see that? I'm like, I can see it. Yeah. Well, we know that this is one inch out on 20. Yeah. But I've already told you that. That's not bad. Did a closet in Midtown that was an inch and a half out in six feet.
00:57:59
Speaker
Well, that's really easy to hide in a pre-war building. Especially when you have to build the cabinets inside of the room because you can't get them up the stairs or around the corner.
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's when you stand all your material on top of the elevator car and take it up. I've done that. Yeah, we did a job in Hoboken. Yeah, Maxwell Place. Yes. It was one of those new Toll Brothers buildings for another designer. We built this like 11 foot long white floating media console, you know, real contemporary, short and really long. And
00:58:35
Speaker
finished it and then said, oh my God, this is going to hope open a never even yeah, never even low staircase thought of it. It just fit into the elevator into the freight elevator diagonally, you know, from one corner to the other.
00:58:51
Speaker
When I first started working, I was talking about multifamily housing units. So Willow Avenue, all the way down the first 10 blocks, I did all of those apartments and Maxwell House was still a coffee factory. That's how long ago that was. And now I did work in that building. It's really interesting to see what Hoboken's become.
00:59:07
Speaker
I didn't even know that's why it was Maxwell Place. It's Maxwell's Coffee. There's a Coco Lopez building there. It was all the coconut factory. I didn't know that either. There was a carborundum factory. And where was it? Woodbridge or Old Bridge, which is Sam, right? I mean, New Jersey was and still is a hotbed of industry.
00:59:28
Speaker
There's a lot of things that go on here. It's a pretty cool state. You know, for a little teeny place, it's got a lot. We get a lot of clock Taylor ham. I'm a firm believer. It's pork roll. See, I grew up, you know, sort of near Trenton in West Windsor. That's where that's, you know, the Genesis of work role is Trenton.
00:59:47
Speaker
Well, if you ever go to Disney and you go on the Safari boat ride, that's going to be a big question. If you are a roller, Taylor ham. Yes, it is. Are you Jersey bread and born? I was born in Patterson, New Jersey and raised in Shark River Hills. So yes, I am.
01:00:04
Speaker
Shark River Hills is, I know it's slightly south of here. So if you go to Belmar and you stand in the Belmar Basin and you look across that bay on the other side at the end of the Shark River, that's where Shark River Hills is. Okay. Is that where that big antenna is?
01:00:22
Speaker
who I'm talking about. Not sure if I know where the antenna is, but I do know where Shark River Hills is. What is that? We've talked about this before. We drive by it sometimes coming back. It was, you know, it has some famous, let's see, it did something, the first something. Yes, you are correct. I used to ride my bicycle up there. Marconi, Marconi's next hand. Oh, that's right. There you go. Yeah.
01:00:50
Speaker
Because we talked about going there. That is on the other side. So you were really no longer in Shark River Hills when you did that. You had stepped out into another area. But yes, that's the Marconi Tower that's over there. Yeah. It's funny. I've lived in New Jersey now for 22 years, which
01:01:10
Speaker
is like 20 years longer than I've ever lived anywhere. And I still don't feel like I'm from New, like I don't say I'm from New Jersey, which is ridiculous. Yeah. I spent some time in Florida. Um, came back here though, but, um, yeah, I think that might be wall township. Is that wall township? And there's a, um, a museum now across the street, which was previously, I'm not sure what the building was, but, um,
01:01:40
Speaker
We're getting into a little New Jersey history here. We've gone off the rails many times. Basically weekly. You're going to have to come up to Wyckoff and visit me up there at Time and Place Design in Wyckoff, New Jersey. You have a brick and mortar up there.
01:01:59
Speaker
I do have a design studio. It's probably the size of the space that we're sitting in right now, but that's, I had a big showroom. I actually had six people working for me at one point. And then I just thought this is, it's, it's, it's managing way more than I want to manage. Just kind of reduce the size of my business footprint a little bit, not my business and change the way I'm doing things a little bit.
01:02:22
Speaker
and moved upstairs, so I still have my samples, so I meet with clients there, so I have my finishes and my hardware and my door samples. But, you know, the business has changed. You don't really need a showroom that, sorry, showroom owners, you don't really need a showroom that has live action
01:02:39
Speaker
displays anywhere because the displays constantly change. And you know, most people know what they're looking for. So as long as they can see the quality of the product and my clients are really good. I bring one client to another client's house all the time. There's, I always say, I'm going to start a Facebook page. It's going to be the time place design, you know, project family, and that will all be able to get together. And a lot of them do, they all know each other because friends recommend friends. But that's, that's where my little place up there.
01:03:03
Speaker
And you can find me, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm Sharon L. Sherman on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram at Time and Place Design. I'm on Facebook, Time and Place Design. So I'm in a couple of different places. I love to hear from people. So I hope that your listeners will reach out and let me know what they're working on.
01:03:20
Speaker
Look, that's how I met you guys, right? This is what this is all about. Talking just like this, except now we're in the same room before we weren't. And I think this is a great way to get to know one another and expand business possibilities. Cause you never know when you're going to be somewhere and I say, Hey, you know, I met someone through whatever, like on my tour, right? It was connecting people. And I think that's, that's the really important part of what discussions like this are all about, right? It's expanding your business universe. Yeah.
01:03:48
Speaker
Yeah. We love networking. Um, we have some, uh, they're friends of ours now that we do a bunch of business with them down in new doors. Um, you got our finishes from them. Um, and, uh, it's Jim Jamal. Yeah. I mean, maybe we'll get John to come up from Charleston and do some stuff with us up here. He was doing training in, I think it was summit.
01:04:15
Speaker
in the summertime, but the timing just wasn't, you know, it was like, I'm going to be at this place tonight at eight o'clock. I'm like, it's Thursday. My wife's working. I got myself like, it's just not going to work. You should organize a party somewhere. Yeah. We did do a meetup for the podcast at a local brewery a couple of years ago, but just make sure they're gluten free and then I'll come. Oh yeah. They might have one. All right.
01:04:38
Speaker
We've been meaning to do an open house here, but as you can see. There's a unique charm to this space. I'm not so sure that I would change a thing. That's 70s vibe. Hey, 70s is popular. Brown is big right now, and you guys are totally right in the center of that lane. Oh, we're swimming in brown. So I think you'll be great. Especially the plaid. If you push those clipboards to the side, it's really light color. You can see that. They've been there for a long time.
01:05:05
Speaker
This is like a time capsule. I think it's great. Yeah. I mean, these curtains are, they're quite a specimen. I think it's great. I love it. You know, I don't need it to be a sleek, fancy place that I'm coming to. I'm looking for the products that are coming out of it. And the equipment that you have here is beautiful, although everything does have a little bit of a haze from the, from the sawdust in there. Oh yeah. Oh, we just ran a bunch of stuff through the shape for today.
01:05:33
Speaker
And that's probably why I sound the way I do, just a little bit raspy, but that's part of the fun. I love the coffee maker kind of hanging off the wall there and that's all the charm.
01:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, we built a couple of nightstands. Actually, they went down to Naples, Florida. And, you know, we always make extra parts. So they were on, they were on, no, they were floating. Oh, actually, they went out to Aspen. So I had all these extra parts. So I said, oh, put it together. We can put the coffee maker on it. Not thinking about dimensions or anything, just that we had it.
01:06:09
Speaker
So I put it together and then come to find out that it's like too small for that particular Nespresso machine. Hey, it works. It's got an interesting angle. It's a little zhuzh to the side and I think it works, but you know what? It serves a purpose and I think it's great. And I love the bulletin board, which is non-existent, but you have chocolate. So I think that's, what more do you need? Yeah, you want one? No, thank you.
01:06:36
Speaker
So do you have any final words of wisdom for the listeners before we sign off? Final words of wisdom. You know, there's a very famous quote and I use it a lot in my presentations and it says, always be yourself because everyone else is already taken.
Staying True to Professional Values
01:06:53
Speaker
And I think that really speaks to what you were saying about we can be working in the same industry, working nearby each other. We all bring something unique to the table to celebrate the things that you do that are unique. And don't let anybody just detour you off your path. If you know that you're going in the right direction, your feet are on that path and you're going someplace
01:07:18
Speaker
Don't let a naysayer come along and say, Oh, you can't do this or you can't do that. Or, you know, you can't collaborate or you can't cooperate. You know what? They're not the advice that you need. So always be yourself and don't be detoured off your path because you're headed in the right direction as long as your heart tells you so. That's great. Yeah. Be authentic.
01:07:41
Speaker
Although to me authentic has gone the way of the word moist, but I'll go with that. That's pretty good. Like bespoke and artisan also. Curated. Yeah, now it's a little bit of a red flag.
01:07:58
Speaker
This has been awesome. Thank you so much for inviting me to have this conversation. I can't wait to hear it, to listen to it. Yeah, and it won't be the last. Friday at 5 a.m., every Friday at 5 a.m. And I am normally awake Friday at 5 a.m. That's when I'm doing emails, so I will be able to listen. Another early riser. Hey, early bird catches the worm, Ben Franklin. Yeah, that's right. But the second mouse gets the cheese. There you go. Who moved that cheese? Yeah.
01:08:23
Speaker
Well, thanks. Thank you. We'll have to have you on again. I'd love to come back. Yeah. Hopefully it'll be post project and we can discuss how everything went. Ooh, I'd love it. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of projects. So maybe we can discuss a few of them and see how it all goes. Yeah. This would be great. Thank you guys. All right. Thank you. We'll talk to everybody next week. Take care.
01:08:44
Speaker
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01:09:22
Speaker
you