Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
I Just Got Baptized And Now I Hate The Environment
20 Plays30 days ago
The "pieces" try to figure out why Christians don't seem to care very much about environmental issues.
Recommended
Transcript
Baptism and Climate Beliefs
00:00:14
Speaker
Just got baptized Now I got investin' oil and gas I just got baptized Now I think global warming is a scam I am a Christian, understand?
00:00:27
Speaker
The planet is on fire, I don't give a damn Bring on the rapture, bring on the rapture Mother Earth's my bitch, Mother Earth's my bitch
00:00:38
Speaker
Wait, I just, was that you or is that some you pulled off ah like a commercial
Song and Secular Influence
00:00:43
Speaker
hit? Was that your song?
00:00:49
Speaker
I actually pulled that from a secular radio station. Okay.
Politics, Religion, and Resistance
00:00:54
Speaker
Atheist. Atheist FM.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah. But it sums up the whole topic today quite nicely, I think. You keep trying to pull me back in, dude. To what? Politics, religion. Yeah.
00:01:11
Speaker
You really want me to care, huh? Really? You just want to think about wood all day? I don't think about wood that much, actually. yeah Yeah, but like I'm not getting too much exposure to evangelical Christians.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, well, I am sometimes. But look, let me frame this shit and we can just get right into it. Frame it, bro.
Environmentalism in Evangelical History
00:01:32
Speaker
So in the early 70s and throughout the eighty s the evangelical church embraced environmentalism.
00:01:38
Speaker
It was sort of a reasonable extension of man's stewardship over God's creation. God created earth, right? But something changed in the ninety s I think as climate change began to take hold and then Christians began to fear, number one, that people may start to worship creation instead of the creator.
00:01:57
Speaker
if that makes sense. And then number two, that climate change could change the world order and threaten Christian individualism and free will. In fact, I just listened to Peter Thiel, famous venture capitalist, Silicon Valley guy on a podcast with a guy
Environmental Activism and Religious Fears
00:02:17
Speaker
named Ross. I forget his last name, but he talks a lot about religion.
00:02:20
Speaker
Anyway, Peter Thiel was like pointing to Greta Thunberg, who's the fucking climate activist, as a potential antichrist in the future. So even today, this idea that environmentalism is a threat to Christianity still seems to be in people's heads.
00:02:37
Speaker
But anyway, in the 90s, prominent pastors began to talk some shit and about people who are pro-environment. The term tree hugger actually comes from ah the evangelical church.
00:02:49
Speaker
Really? Yeah, tree huggers is what they called. forget the pastor's name that that created that phrase. Not a bad phrase, kind of funny. And they sort of started a cultural assault on climate change, and the rest is motherfucking history.
00:03:06
Speaker
So the base issue, dude, is an absurdity, at least in Lance's mind, that evangelical Christians somehow think environmentalism is ah threat.
Environmentalism as Paganism
00:03:17
Speaker
don't fucking get it. It's a threat. Well, it's like a return to paganism, maybe, or some of the Indians sort of worship the Mother Earth and the and in nature.
00:03:30
Speaker
that that Is that it? Or is it just because ah it's just now this movement, like these these overall movements of of what the right is and what the left is and and the... And the religious movements usually align with that.
00:03:43
Speaker
It's like an extension of like free love and peace hippies. And then, and then those people are usually environmentalists. And then, you know, the battle line was set in the sixties and seventies, maybe. youre Yeah, that may be it. I mean, cause you said a few things there, the worship of nature is certainly a threat.
Christian Teachings and Environmental Stewardship
00:04:01
Speaker
And like, what, what could threaten Christianity as a whole or Christian free will as a whole, if, The people of Earth have to come together over climate change and begin to work together. You you might see ah new focus on Mother Earth that's threatening to kind of the message of Christianity, which is you need to have a relationship with God, an individual relationship with God, and God's Word in the Bible.
00:04:30
Speaker
and anything else, to your point, is a pagan belief. Even though solving problems doesn't necessarily equal paganism, right? So I always go back to stupid examples, but if a toddler took a shit in your backyard pool and you're an evangelical Christian, you picking the poop out of the pool does not equal... Worshiping the devil?
00:04:52
Speaker
because you're solving a problem, but that's better for your your environment. So I always look for the most fucking ridiculous example to not get my point across, but you get what I'm saying.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, there's that thread of like worshiping nature, but yeah, it seems like the message should go hand in hand of helping God's creatures. and and sustaining life, being a steward to the earth would would fall into God and Jesus' plans, right?
00:05:20
Speaker
You would think. But do you think it does? In what you've witnessed socially? Or you just don't fucking care because you're fucking mad? A little bit that, yeah.
Media and Perceptions of Climate Issues
00:05:33
Speaker
Well, what gets me going is like, and don't know, even with, I mean, stuff we talked about the last few weeks, it's like, it's just all news cycles. It's such nonsense. Like I haven't, you don't really hear anything about right now about Iran because, because people are worried about this big bail or something.
00:05:48
Speaker
Or is there still a war going on in Ukraine? Like these are all just like, or is climate change? No one's talking about it. It's like, It just seems like media bullshit. Not that climate change, but just these these these things that people latch on to and get pissed or support.
00:06:05
Speaker
and do you Do you think this is not a different thread, but do you think this is just an evangelical Christian thing? Or do you think there are people in like the Muslim Islamic community that are like that have these same issues where there's like a conservative side and a liberal side and and environmentalism doesn't fit with like their conservative values either?
00:06:25
Speaker
or like in Judaism or you know some of these other prominent religions. It's a question beyond my my research. think it's just that fucking preaching, annoying white Christian who's heavy handed and likes to tell everyone how they should live? And that's that's the real issue. It's like an American issue.
Prosperity Gospel vs. Environmentalism
00:06:45
Speaker
I think part of it's the intersection between passion around environmentalism in the culture and then this prosperity gospel.
00:06:56
Speaker
ah That Ornstein guy, who what's his name? show up Yeah, he's one of them. I don't know who started it. What's his face? This is where you should do more research, Baker.
00:07:08
Speaker
When Baker created his amusement park for Christians. I mean, that was a sign things were going astray. But look. Business man. I will concede that there are aspects of hardcore environmentalism that look to be challenging religion in the sense that they are becoming their own religions.
00:07:27
Speaker
ah You know, an activist like try to shut down fairly reasonable business projects because as a fucking couple groundhogs might get displaced. It starts to get a little haywire there.
00:07:38
Speaker
And that I think gives like Christians like ample ammunition to like talk shit about it. However, ah just don't get why that means you're gonna deny the reality that's happening right in front of your eyes.
00:07:51
Speaker
Why are more right-wing evangelical types, I'm gonna generalize, why are they holding so hard on to fucking stupid shit like coal? Why do they wanna counter their own self-interest and their own preservation? is In my song, i like I swear, some of these motherfuckers, dude, they crave the rapture.
00:08:10
Speaker
It's like, oh, the rapture, it's coming. It's fucking coming. Ooh, yep. And I swear to God, they love the planet burning up because they think they're going to get saved. that's It's kind of sick and twisted, dude. I don't fucking get that piece
Rapture Beliefs and Environmental Destruction
00:08:23
Speaker
of it. But to ignore climate science appears to be obvious as floods and tornadoes and fucking hurricanes come whipping through your red states and you're still like, eh.
00:08:33
Speaker
Fucking environmentalists are destroying this country. I don't get it. dude The idea, that's the weird thing about the the people that are really into rapture. it's like It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So in a way, they you have to have it happen.
00:08:49
Speaker
But there is there ever a message or a statement that's less, like, would be less representative of the words of Jesus as, I told you so? Like, do you want to be sitting in heaven going like, uh-huh, I told you so.
00:09:02
Speaker
rapture was coming. Ha ha. Like but that's really what they want, you know? So to, to, to sort of close the loop on their, on their beliefs, they need, they need, they need ah the world to end or they need something along the lines of like old Testament biblical scriptures, but that's just their interpretation of it, you know?
00:09:23
Speaker
So that they're ramming down your throat. Yeah. Yeah. So you, so maybe the climate change, they're like, all right, this is our, this is our path to righteousness. Right. Yeah, I'm going to fucking accelerate it and get the biggest truck I can possibly get and spew as much pollution in the air as possible. Yeah, I'm going to do that.
00:09:39
Speaker
It feels that that that's the perspective. now That's calling out a whole heck of a lot of people that probably all aren't on board with that. But I find it fascinating.
00:09:51
Speaker
And maybe life is just easier to be a Christian. mean, in some ways I admire it, but like when some tragic weather event, we've talked a lot of shit about Joplin, Missouri getting ransacked by tornadoes. It's just, oh, it's God's will.
00:10:03
Speaker
God has a plan. It's God's will. Well, maybe could also be some climate change impacts, you stupid fuck.
00:10:14
Speaker
Or whenever it gets cold, for like one day one's like, uh-huh, see, it's cold.
Climate Science Skepticism
00:10:20
Speaker
So the premise in the show is that Christians in today's modern culture have moved so far beyond reason that they seem...
00:10:28
Speaker
but parts here Yeah, nearly euphoric about coal production and fucking big trucks and small engine appliance. If you try to take away a fucking Christian's leaf blower, gas leaf blower and say, here, you should try electric, it's just so much easier.
00:10:46
Speaker
what, these goddamn environmentalists? Because of course they have to be Southern. But like, dude, try to take away gas appliances, it's like it becomes this fucking sermon. It comes a sermon in all the church.
00:10:58
Speaker
These environmentalists want to take away your free will. gas stoves now they want to take away the gas stoves and and so i don't get all that it seems totally totally absurd to commingle that with religion so i'm trying to understand it obviously i'm a piece of shit yeah let's talk about a piece of shit on this one what's your do you have a piece of shit or is it the the other side do you have a are you a pos on this one Well, I'm a piece of shit because I'm calling out an entire religion that, well, that encompasses millions and millions of people and they believe stuff with passion and that feels weird.
00:11:35
Speaker
i think you got, it yeah. yeah That's probably your POS is grouping. Cause there's a lot of different types of Christians. No, there are not. They all hate the gays and they all hate the environment.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yep. That's what just kind of goes hand in hand.
00:11:52
Speaker
What's your POS? That I don't care once again. That is mine. but i but i But I'll say I don't – I mean, I've said it before. If I'm doing anything right in this life, which is almost nothing,
00:12:03
Speaker
is I live a pretty
Hypocrisy Among Environmentalists
00:12:05
Speaker
low impact life on the environment. I can say that. And when I'm making some money, I try to give back. Literally to the environment. hu No, do you actually care?
00:12:16
Speaker
Like, is there ah is there a unconscious or is it conscious where you're forcing yourself to care? Like what social pressures are leaning on you to care about the environment? i mean, I think you gotta, it has to come from within.
00:12:27
Speaker
And so I don't, I can't like, the the the the reality is like, what but why Why I don't care about anything is is the the intense hypocrisy that's rampant. and like Even environmentalists are fucking flying around the world and using their phones and doing all that shit that's terrible for the environment.
00:12:46
Speaker
You know, like if you're sitting up posting shit about the environment on Instagram, you're doing it through a modern medium that has a, you know, a phone that has a half-life of a billion years and a battery that requires probably slave labor to get it. And like, you everything you're doing is just as bad as somebody getting a getting a expedition, a Ford expedition, and driving around with their fucking Leonard Skinner flags hanging out the back and and being like, take my...
00:13:11
Speaker
truck steering wheel from my cold dead hands. It's like, at least that guy's, but that guy, you know, the hypocrisy there is like, you know, all the crap that people are worried about. Oh yeah. Like, I don't know. Emphysema and pollution, you know, they're living in that crap. Like nobody wants to live in a, in a trashy,
00:13:30
Speaker
polluted thing and like so both sides it's like stop acting like you don't care like you don't care about the environment and stop acting like what you're you're so righteous and what you're doing literally unless you're walking around and like and and doing some sort of sustainable farming to get all your food and shit the modern world requires you to have a negative impact on the on the environment and you're part of so don't act like you're not so so the reason why i don't care about that in politics is like just the rampant hypocrisy Because now people can share their opinions and that's the worst thing. People are always like, it's great. People can share their opinions and communicate. like, and most people shouldn't share their opinions.
00:14:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, okay. Besides you and me, bro. Besides the two pieces of shit. But look, dude, hypocrisy is embedded in nearly all of human behavior. So I don't know how you get around that, but what we fail to do. You look within is is like, i so I'm trying to be green.
00:14:21
Speaker
I mean, i green's a stupid thing, but I'm trying to not... I'm trying to, not trying i guess, like have a net zero equation, you know? Sort of either give back what you take or take as little as possible.
00:14:32
Speaker
Which really comes down to not being... Sorry. But it comes down to not being excessively materialistic and... consumer oriented. My hypocrisy is like, because I live in another country to go back and see my family or go to where my work is, i have to fly.
00:14:46
Speaker
So all the progress I made of being like net zero using minimal amount of energy. We are in a clean grid here. But like so my so my flying you know, probably, probably Fox Fox me up. Okay.
00:14:58
Speaker
Well, Matt looks within, but you forget, dude. I got one more thing. Yeah. Oh no, I don't give a fuck. No, you keep going, but I have another thing. Cause I know, but it's a question for you, but go ahead. You listen to me.
00:15:09
Speaker
ah Listen, no, you look within man, but you, you have to recognize you have been influenced by the modern environmentalist movement. One that recognizes climate change, one that seeks to minimize pollution, preserve,
00:15:22
Speaker
ah The forest, especially where you live. I mean, you you are influenced by that, which changes but your standards for how you go about life. I'm influenced both in both ways, I have to say, because I've heard some other information that makes me question some of the environmental stuff.
00:15:38
Speaker
Right, like electric cars and the batteries and stuff like that. Or that the, you for example, trash in the U.S., if the U.S. didn't, a guy went to the the mines, friend a good friend of mine, smart dude, very Catholic, by the way, but he said, he learned at that school that the U.S. has, they didn't do anything about waste management. They have 300 years worth of capacity right now, already like laid out to handle waste management meant and in a way that doesn't affect the environment besides where it's where it's buried.
00:16:05
Speaker
So like I hear that's that stuff and I'm like, hmm. What are the environmentalists telling us? Well, i don't they're not they're not up in arms about trash as much, as far as I know, but whatever. I get that.
00:16:16
Speaker
I will concede. This is number two. is my second concession. The idealism embodied in environmentalism doesn't always translate into the reality of everyday life.
Christian Farmers and Environmental Stewardship
00:16:29
Speaker
and and And what's ironic is it's probably safe to say that more Christian right winger type people are running and managing our nation's ranches and our and farms. That's probably accurate. they're They're interacting with the environment every day while some fucking city dweller woke pussy in San Francisco is telling them to lower their carbon footprint when they're driving the hogs to the slaughterhouse.
00:16:55
Speaker
But but you ate you ate pork, right? I'll eat some pork, dude. But the absurdity and outright resistance, and maybe this is what you're calling out in the hypocrisy, the complete resistance to any environmental messaging among Christians is absolutely perplexing.
00:17:11
Speaker
Yeah, and that, like, Woody, I don't really see that. I even see people that might they maybe are skeptical of climate change, but they're like, well, fine, I'll recycle if it's offered. But they're not, like, passionate about it, which is fine.
00:17:23
Speaker
But how many, like, do you see that a lot? People are just like, it's all bullshit. Well, nobody goes about the day their day looking for constant conflict. No, but you just see... They do, seems like, sometimes, right? Well...
00:17:38
Speaker
There were people that were obvious event evangelicals where I've lived that they were the only people that didn't recycle. yes And I've seen that. and And look, you can talk shit about recycling and you know we were lied to about the ability to recycle plastics.
00:17:56
Speaker
But most people view it as a good step in becoming more environmentally aware. And they're just outright resistant Fuck that. not putting cardboard in this fucking extra bin.
00:18:07
Speaker
And what is that about? That can't be a coincidence or something in you know Lance's anecdote magical world. I've seen the pushback on recycling is that either one, they're not actually doing it. And two, it's it's not very efficient. So it doesn't it doesn't help.
00:18:23
Speaker
Why are more Republicans resistant to buy electric vehicles? Because they know about the perils of batteries? No. Because there's a resistance to the idea that there's ah there's a wokeness in clean energy there's a wokeness in fucking wind solar ev cars for whatever reason i think it stems from the christian community preaching about some fucking threat to christianity from environmentalism really i do and this is uh this like from the articles we read this is a was an actual like mindset change in that world right
00:19:08
Speaker
Like, that wasn't always that way in that community.
Dominion vs. Protection Debate
00:19:13
Speaker
Well, all I referenced was about a 50-year span where early in the 60s, 70s, 80s, I think, there was an emphasis on stewardship.
00:19:22
Speaker
And then it switched. And here's where I can run wild is... This whole idea of man has dominion over animals and earth. Like I'll take that to its absurd end and and talks talk a bunch of shit about how right-wingers don't give a fuck about the dolphins and all this stuff. But then again, i have to counter that with the fact that they're probably running most of our ranches and farms.
00:19:50
Speaker
Slaughtering. No, but they're they're they're interacting with the environment in a way that you know helps humanity more broadly. They're probably also a lot of fucking fishermen, are working class, right-wing, Christian-oriented people.
00:20:02
Speaker
so So I can get the resistance of like like these idealistic idiots.
00:20:08
Speaker
These idealistic idiots. I think most of the world is just trying to justify their own existence and decisions, but there are a few people on the fringe that that can't really, not on the fringe now, but.
00:20:19
Speaker
People that have a hard time like operating in normal society, so they gravitate towards these weird cults and shit, and then they go all in because they can't do it any other way. They'd be like off the rails, so then they'd receive that message.
00:20:32
Speaker
Most people are just like, hey, I recycle, or i don't recycle, but I don't... yeah like Everybody justifies their own existence and their decisions.
00:20:41
Speaker
Like, with the environment, with everything else. I mean, I just did it myself, but I can't. your show, man. but do Go ahead. No. So what I was going ask earlier is like what I think it's hard. I was talking about this last night with someone.
00:20:58
Speaker
And like, can you sit there? This is what's hard for me, actually. ah Can you sit there and point to something in your life where you're like this climate change and this is like actually affecting my life?
00:21:11
Speaker
I think for some people it might not be quite as like, you know, driven by this message from some crazy preacher. It's also, it's like, I don't see it. There's still winter. There's still summer. There's still like, or like every time it gets also the, you know, every time I don't like on the environmental side, the environmental side, every time it gets like a hundred degrees, everyone's like climate change.
00:21:32
Speaker
And then every time it's like cold, the non-environmental, like there's no fucking global warming. It's three degrees outside Milwaukee. like But has can you say, yeah, there's something in my life, it's affected me.
00:21:45
Speaker
ah Climate change specifically? Yeah. Or environmental issues. Well, I think, yeah, if you run into one of these people, they're they're most likely, besides like God's divine will for them or whatever the hell they're going to talk about, they're probably going to be like, well, I don't, there's no climate change not affecting me.
00:22:01
Speaker
So how how do you know it's real? What would you say? Well, what I say is, I mean, it's just like, first I'd have to create a ah foundation question of like, do you believe in science?
00:22:12
Speaker
Because if you don't at all believe in science or you believe in scientific expertise, I mean, not worth the effort. we just don't have any fucking conversation. But assuming you do, I think you can point to obvious measurements of ice melt and sea level rise.
00:22:28
Speaker
And you can point to obvious increases in temperature across the world, even if You don't notice that one degree or that extra two degrees or that new record that seems to temperature record that seems to come up every fucking year.
00:22:43
Speaker
that doesn't like impact you because you have AC, it definitely gets into the psychology of like, what the fuck are we doing? How long are we going to do this? How long are we going to continue to consume at this level in an unsustainable way? And so I would say if you believe in science, there's a psychological burden that affects you every single day.
00:23:01
Speaker
Psychological burden. It's not necessary. It could be a physical burden for some people. I mean, there's definitely more heat stroke happening. Yeah, I think people need, not need that, but people probably need that, like, tangible effect.
00:23:15
Speaker
So what point... But they'll still doubt it, right?
Divine Punishment vs. Scientific Phenomena
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think, honestly, at what point would the Christians get on board is, you know, when tornadoes are ripping through their town like 11 months of the year. But then at that point, it's just like, the rapture, yay, yay, it's all ending, and i I'm going to be saved.
00:23:33
Speaker
Or they might even, this sounds like I'm making a joke, but they might pin it on like a group like, it's because the trans movement in the U.S., God's punishment or something like that, right? ah Yeah, the gays. Too many gays.
00:23:44
Speaker
Potentially, right? God's punishment. I mean, it's so such an interesting... That's why religion is so amazing. you can so It's so Because you can just simply go, well, you have have faith.
00:23:55
Speaker
You can't believe it, you can't see it it's not tangible, you have to have faith. It's built on this blind faith that you need. And then the other thing is like, you can just be like, yeah, it's punishment. it's It's, you know? It's like.
00:24:07
Speaker
It's so powerful. And like, it allows you to, I think in some ways, turn your head from the things that are most important in your own life. And then also, i think it protects you in a good way too sometimes.
00:24:21
Speaker
it's ah It's a tricky situation. It's a tricky thing, I think, to be really, really religious because in some ways, like, it's so anti-progress. And in other ways, like, with this religion, you can get through some real tragedy because the belief system is sturdy.
00:24:37
Speaker
yeah And it's probably helped humanity for for centuries to survive. So I have a hard time talking shit about it, you know, throughout the whole episode. You're finding the way, bro. Well... Good for you.
00:24:51
Speaker
i think you I think you probably have been affected more than a lot of people with a religious message close to you that you don't you don't necessarily agree with or value. So think you have like stronger opinions about it than maybe some people that's been like the exposed. You know, in my religion, the Catholicism wasn't wasn't how I should view the environment or the world or anything like that. You know, it's pretty watered down, sort of be kind, love Jesus type type stuff.
00:25:22
Speaker
It wasn't like, it wasn't a political message or, you know. Yeah. Which I think is, it's grown in terms of of politics and like really adding. like mindset and stuff. Well, just adding cultural um hot points onto the list of things you interpret in the Bible to like support.
00:25:41
Speaker
And I think environmentalists, is one environmentalism has been one of those cultural hot points that for whatever reason, evangelicals have ah railed against. I don't have, I don't even have anyone in my family super environmentalist either, I don't think. I mean, I would say my parents are fine.
00:25:56
Speaker
My dad's more right, so he thinks some of it's all bullshit. Sometime in the 90s, one of our neighbors who worked for like waste management system basically told them that they, when they have those recycling days whatever, they pick the shit up and throw it all in the same place. It's just like image.
00:26:10
Speaker
Ever since then, he's been like, that's all nonsense. That was the message he heard, but i had nothing to do with like funneled through the church or anything. yeah i Right. Right. That's the issue though. There is a lot of that crap, like because it's become now even like to say this is green package, green or raise green or it's, it's such a marketing capitalism thing that a lot of it's bullshit too.
00:26:33
Speaker
You know, like that's one of the problems. Like you don't, instead of trying to recycle plastic bottles, somebody should just fucking stop making plastic bottles, right? Agree, agree. I think that to your dad's anecdote and to just perhaps the inability of us to like believe some of this, I think it's fundamentally about a loss of control because the Christians I think will fear the this notion of some charismatic environmentalist taking control of the world and demanding that everybody do this thing to protect the earth.
00:27:11
Speaker
You could see the future going that direction where we're just gonna flat out have to adhere to some new guidelines about how to live. And to them, that's like the embodiment of the antichrist. Because why would God put humans on a path of self-destruction?
00:27:27
Speaker
There are things in the culture, I think we're all influenced by religion, that make it easier for us to be like, oh, that's a bunch of bullshit. do you believe Do you think there's any validity in some of that?
00:27:39
Speaker
Well, like the idea, like if you believe in a higher power, then why why would we, you know, why would they put us on this path to destruction? Or why would be the sort of what they consider the advancement of mankind be so bad for the for what we need to survive?
00:27:52
Speaker
It's like kind of weird.
Exploitation Justified by Dominion
00:27:54
Speaker
Why are we in such a goddamn hurry to kill ourselves but just for the sake of advancing what we could say, advancing society? you know You think that would be the Christian take on it?
00:28:05
Speaker
Well, thought that's what you just said. That's how i understood it. I know. I think the Christian take is that environmentalism creates a new center of or a new focus of worship.
00:28:16
Speaker
take Takes away from the worship of God. such that Yes, exactly. Such that the power structure becomes whoever has the most charismatic message on how to protect the planet.
00:28:27
Speaker
And so then then all of a sudden you lose your individualism and your the free will, perhaps, that God has given you to have dominion over Earth. You're now being told, nope, we can no longer eat lobster or whatever the fuck.
00:28:42
Speaker
Whatever the and new environmental rules are, that's a threat to the Christian freedom. And I'm even taking it further, which is I'll echo. Yeah, boy. These fucking. Push it.
00:28:54
Speaker
Idiots that I listened to the podcast, Ross and fucking Peter Thiel. You just think of we getting to a dire place with climate change and and and people are needing to migrate.
00:29:04
Speaker
You could see somebody taking over as a world leader to get our our planet under control. And that person being viewed by Christians as the antichrist, because this person is just gonna make them worship pagan earth.
00:29:17
Speaker
i think I find that to be absurd. it's It's like what's coming together, though, is like that religious right with this this thing that Americans are even the left are always bitching about is like freedoms and freedom.
00:29:30
Speaker
That's all we hear about in the U.S. is freedom. Everything is an attack on your freedom. So making the environmental thing like an attack on their freedom, right, which is like anti-spiritual or spirituality or something. And they're they're they're they're trying to say that. oh you're So you're taking away my freedom to do what I want.
00:29:50
Speaker
But look, dude, if this earthly life is like the one true test for a human being to enter the gates of heaven for all eternity, then please, somebody tell me why God would support an interpretation of man's dominion over nature that is so fucking care careless and exploitative.
00:30:13
Speaker
why How are those two aligned? just think that God wants us to be able to and admit when we're wrong. There's a couple of things like you would think at some point something like, oh, yeah, we might have.
00:30:25
Speaker
We thought plastic was good. was a great way to store stuff. We kind of fucked that one up. Maybe we should chill out. And like nobody ever will roll back a little bit and be like, yeah, that's probably a bad idea.
00:30:38
Speaker
Whether we thought it was or not.
Religious Beliefs Shaping Policies
00:30:40
Speaker
do you Do you think God wants his children to move towards more sustainable, renewable energy and shit like that? Yeah, i just well I just think the...
00:30:50
Speaker
I can't imagine like some, they're they're sort of the message for some of these religious people seems exactly to fly in the face of what, like it doesn't correlate to what you would think the teachings of Jesus would be.
00:31:04
Speaker
Sort of like, I know everything and i i can't be I can't be influenced by anything and I can't admit that I'm wrong and I can't have compassion for the earth and I have to defend certain things that I believe are right at all all costs. Like that doesn't seem like a religious message.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I would hope a lot of ah lot of Christians probably aren't aren't like what you're saying. I would hope that a lot of them are like, well, that's not why I'm in the religion, but that's becoming, like when it starts to get interwoven into politics and and and stuff and in the word freedom in the US, that's when it gets to be this really un-Jesus-like message.
00:31:42
Speaker
yeah and like i mean it make like i always say too, like, If you don't believe in climate change or the environment, that's fine. just Just in case, just do it. It's like, just do it. Well, you know what It's not that hard for you recycle that might the may or may not help help the earth and just do it, you know, or or whatever.
00:32:01
Speaker
Isn't that your take on religion too? Oh, what? Like just worship God just in case? just in case, fucking go to church few times? Well, I think that I generally find people that have some belief in faith are happier. So that's why think people should do that.
00:32:14
Speaker
I think it's like obvious. You don't find too many like really happy, like atheists or skeptics. They're just like too combative and lifeless. Oh, I'm a skeptic. I'm not an atheist. ah I'm a skeptic who has some faith in the mystery of the world, but... They'll just base everything, every fucking thing in your would you say I'm fucking angry?
00:32:35
Speaker
A little bit, yeah. feel You think you're angry? You think I'm unhappy? I think you're probably pretty happy. Well, you're not too far gone, I think is what it is.
00:32:46
Speaker
There was a study about liberalism and how those people are less happy because they don't have the answers and they're seeking the answers and they're trying to understand where the right fucking has the answers in their good book and they're fucking viable.
00:32:59
Speaker
But we fuck everything up here, like in the U.S., s like I think when I talk about that and what you read like the blue zone and all that crap is like the idea that like there is a higher power pushing us through here and like everything's not as bad or good as it seems.
00:33:13
Speaker
And some like the belief that it's in someone else's hands maybe is what what gives people relieves them a lot of stress. But of course, in the US and and everywhere, I'm sure, but like we have to we have to frame it into a message. We have to ram down people's throats.
00:33:26
Speaker
And it's never a happy message. It's always like, you're not going to get saved. You're doing bad. You're wrong. You're not doing what I want. you're not doing what god my God wants. it' like That's not serving anyone. So shut the fuck up.
00:33:38
Speaker
you're You're only turning people away from God, not bringing them to them. So like... that that is ah But that is a fucking American thing to be a missionary, to go out and preach and tell people what they should think and what they should do.
00:33:51
Speaker
I mean, it was not just American. It was, you know, many churches
Missionary Zeal and Environmental Advocacy
00:33:55
Speaker
have done that over the years. But, like, I just say, yeah, I mean, you but you can't get swept up into it. So on either way, against it or for you can't waste your energy on those people, even if they're close you in your life.
00:34:07
Speaker
so You can't do a podcast about it. That's what you're saying. No, you can't. But I think you're going to be, if you if you continue to worry about that, you will truly be a piece of, no, just kidding. You can't have like, you can't let it take up too much of your time.
00:34:24
Speaker
Oh God, no. I think it's funny and stupid. but Although you also don't want the world to to keep crumbling around you either, right? Right. So if there's a whole huge subset of the planet that's like, this is all bullshit.
00:34:38
Speaker
This is all bullshit. it's like it's like they yeah It's like they believe that God was pissed off when the first solar panel panel got installed. Fuck that.
00:34:49
Speaker
Fuck renewables. it It's it's an ah at an absurd level.
Resistance to New Technologies
00:34:54
Speaker
It's like, oh, humans, we figured out the modern sewer system. Fuck that. Let's go back to pissing and shitting in the streets. There's an absurdity that I have a hard time figuring out. like why are you Why is it so hard for you to realize that coal is done?
00:35:13
Speaker
We're going to move past fucking coal. We're gonna eventually going to move past oil and gas because we're smarter. And these new things, these new things, Christian, I know they weren't described in the Bible.
00:35:26
Speaker
These new things, you motherfuckers, are going to be better for you and everyone else. There is a transition period where you might have to find a new job, all of us, but dude,
00:35:37
Speaker
Keep going to church on Sunday. Everything will be fine. You'll just be in a healthier and but environment. It's less the believers and it's more the fucking preachers. These mouthpieces that somehow they are latching onto these largely political messages And for some reason, environmentalism equals liberalism.
00:35:57
Speaker
I don't get
Politics and Environmental Divisions
00:35:58
Speaker
it. I want to take the Bible and use it to slap some fucking people in the face. Yeah. Big, big issue there, right? put Politicizing everything is, is, is like really gonna, is really like a way to stop any progress.
00:36:15
Speaker
like politicizing. It's like, it's not really a political issue, but it's become political issue, right? Yeah. Let me ask you something here real quick. How do you feel about animals? Like truly, when you when you look at an animal and maybe something even insignificant, like a squirrel, do you honestly think you're more important?
00:36:36
Speaker
It depends on the animal. mean, the squirrel, I'm going to say yes. Okay. Why? But why? Is that a religious thing that you came to? Yeah. is it because you you're raising kids or because you have a bigger brain? Like really, what what's the... No, I don't know. but Where does that come from?
00:36:55
Speaker
Well, I don't... Self-interest, survival? Well, if you just break it down to like, would you save a squirrel or yourself? You would save sirp yourself. Well, right. That gets into more self-interest and self-preservation. But like i when when you look around at maybe some of the decisions you might make,
00:37:13
Speaker
it say a squirrel was running down, um, eating some of your raspberries in the bush or something. And, you know, you didn't use the raspberries, just something, you know, would you take out a pellet gun and kill, kill that fucking thing just cause you're, you're man. And God said you has to, you have dominion.
00:37:32
Speaker
AR 15. Yeah. yeah To the dump. No, i mean, I don't even like killing insects to be honest with you. Okay. Why though? I mean, I don't This is like living creatures.
Ethics of Valuing Life
00:37:43
Speaker
oh i don't kill I don't kill anything alive just for the sake of killing it. Yeah. like I don't know. It's life. But I eat fish. I eat meat. I eat plants. They're all living things.
00:37:56
Speaker
I don't like mouse mice in my house. I'll kill them.
00:38:01
Speaker
Do you like mice or rats? ah You wouldn't be like, but you wouldn't be like ah it's okay. Rats are living things. You can hang out here. No, not in my house because then you know we're getting into so that same concept of self-preservation.
00:38:15
Speaker
like they you They might bring disease in or shit like that. Yeah, exactly. um That's the tricky part. but But like I think that when people look around, i don't i don't know. when i see ah so we can use some of it Why do they think the environmentalists use more of the majestic animals to try to – help people become and more more environmentally conscious.
00:38:36
Speaker
It's because like we can so look at something like a tiger, a white tiger, a fucking whale and go, gosh, we just, we don't want those to disappear. Right. And of course they all are disappearing because of our fucking behavior.
00:38:50
Speaker
But at some point, and I tell you, I'm there where I look at humans and the most disgusting of all the creatures on earth is our fat fucking asses.
00:39:00
Speaker
Our constant consuming, eating, sucking down every fucking thing in our pathway, fat fucking asses. We are the most disgusting creature on earth. I'm assuming like you would, people that are like that, you value the animal more than those people.
00:39:17
Speaker
mean, it's a harsh thing to say, but. Dude, I'll take a scorpion. ah worst The worst human is worse than the best squirrel, probably. Well, just that humans can have so much negative impact.
00:39:29
Speaker
yeah Which is why I rail on the size of- It's choice, too. Well, yeah. I mean, some of it's set by cultural standards, but like the single family home is is devastating to the environment. What about people are like, we out here starving, and you and you be you talking about a squirrel? and we like some people are This is even like a righteous sort of privileged thing to be like,
00:39:51
Speaker
You know, to be like, oh, fucking squirrel. I think that's the other thing a lot of people are not just like but the good old boy who's like, my fucking truck and my boat. There's also people that like, I'm fucking out here on the streets trying to survive, and you're talking about a fucking squirrel.
00:40:06
Speaker
like Yeah, dude. I'm getting kind of tired of the whole shtick of like, It's a privileged point of view to have ideas about what should get better. Like sitting there going, oh, white man shouldn't talk about the spotted owl because fucking brown people are starving in food deserts in South Chicago or whatever.
00:40:26
Speaker
I'm just done with that fucking argument. Do I empathize with the situation they're in? Of course. I obviously think there are systemic problems. Dude, isn't there a politician pushing for free grocery stores? and ah The dude from New York. He's a democratic socialist. He's Democrat?
00:40:43
Speaker
I'm playing, boy. Yeah, he's he's... Like, yeah I mean, that's probably got people freaking.
00:40:54
Speaker
Like... oh Right. Trump Trump is looking for a reason to deport him ah or they're looking for a reason to investigate him as a communist under some of the old laws in the McCarthy era, I think.
00:41:06
Speaker
ah So, yeah, dude people are freaking out. But I think like that seems so extreme. It's like it's like know your audience or it's like. The US is based, everything is based on freedom and like it's based on freedom and the ability to to to make money and make capitalism thrive.
00:41:24
Speaker
So that that idea is probably not gonna work, but maybe it'll move the needle to some something. But like, I think environmentalists, they need to operate the same way. Like, I mean, if you if you like Tesla is a profitable company, all now it makes sense.
00:41:37
Speaker
Now the rights embrace that company. Like if you're gonna do this stuff, shouldn't be a religious message or an anti-religious message. or anti-capitalism, it's just gotta work within the framework of of that society that you guys have up there.
00:41:52
Speaker
I don't know how you how you get the evangelist Christians to embrace it, but it seems like it has to come through money. you know Well, yeah, that's where all the lines are drawn. And I mean, do you think it's fair for a company like Coca-Cola to come in and buy water rights and in a town and use that to bottle up all their fucking water just because they have the capitalistic power?
00:42:13
Speaker
Yes. Christians do. Christians do. Well, I don't know. I mean, they're making, I mean, it's like i'm I'm buying wood. I mean, I don't, maybe I'm i'm doing the same thing they are and it's really a smaller scale.
00:42:26
Speaker
Well, like how how should Coca-Cola make their product? They're going to need billions and billions of gallons of water to make it, right? Just stop making it first off. But no, no, those lines. That's never going to happen, right? So it's not realistic to be like, you're the biggest brand in the world. You're the only brand in the world that uses its same name everywhere.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, but we're defining those lines all the time. And as we gain new information about the impacts to the environment and perhaps... and You should adjust.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think you should adjust. I should i think regulation should lean more onto protecting what actually makes us able to exist versus next year's GDP numbers. I mean, that's obvious to me.
00:43:09
Speaker
I mean, yeah, they should have. what's What's great about Coca-Cola is like, have you seen, you can buy like Mexican or like outside the U.S. Coca-Cola that uses like real, real, real stuff.
00:43:20
Speaker
Actually, even like real sugar. You're like, why don't you just do that everywhere? Just use real stuff. Why do you have a U.S. version that's just like full of chemicals? The big thing about Coca-Cola I keep hearing about is how if you pour it on your car to like take paint off your car.
00:43:34
Speaker
yeah I don't drink that shit. Just stop doing that. You could probably have it. You can make the same Coca-Cola. Let's get all that shit out of there. and Everything will be fine. But ah I mean, they always make it like Coca-Cola is in some town or like eight black people. And they're they're like, there's ah a pipe of water going towards the black people's house. Coca-Cola comes in and like but ah puts like an elbow joint in the pipe and runs it to their thing. And those people just die. Yeah, that's right.
00:44:01
Speaker
This is a giant corporation. They need water. They're just taking water like everyone else. People make these things where it's like, all right, there's like eight board members of Coca-Cola. It's like, where's the highest highest highest denseity density population of minorities?
00:44:15
Speaker
Let's go get their water. well It's not really like that. It did, but there were there were people that were. It's like a little black kid that looks like buckwheat and he's about to take a glass of water and Coca-Cola CEO comes in and swipes it out of his hand.
00:44:30
Speaker
It's like, pour some chemicals in there and make it brown. We need that. Okay. Funny jokes, but you do know in history that many people who couldn't represent themselves or didn't have choices were destroyed, got cancer, got lead poisoning, got all sorts of ah issues because of corporations.
00:44:48
Speaker
But- That message I just said, though, is what some tree hugger, as we you know with we put out there on Instagram, and then everyone would like, are you talking about, dude? Yeah. Yeah. I think fundamentally what I don't get, I get why the country leans towards sort of the capitalistic mission over the environmental mission nine times out of ten because we're short-term thinkers.
00:45:11
Speaker
What I don't get is why the Christian- That's where we work is part of the thing. Yeah, we need jobs, blah, blah, blah. What don't get is why would the fucking Christians jump on board with that message?
00:45:23
Speaker
It's the same confusion I have with why would the Christians jump on board with a guy like Trump? I don't want to talk about Trump, but why are you jumping on board with something that exploits God's creation?
00:45:36
Speaker
exploits it in a negative way. That is still so confounding. I don't think religion is religion anymore related to God. does It's more of a, I don't know, you call it ideology? or like It's more of a ah movement. type It's like less about God and worship than it is about ideology, lifestyle.
00:45:58
Speaker
ah like a ah len It's like a framework to look at the world. Yeah. and so how you make it yeah it's like a decision It's like a checklist of decisions. It's not necessarily tied to ah a real God or a God that anyone would like.
00:46:11
Speaker
right I don't know, but your expert you get people are in your life that are heavy handed about actual Bible interpretation or is it more like that's oh a lie, that's a lie, that's a lie, like related to God or they they put it through the lens of the Bible?
00:46:27
Speaker
my My father is all about the Bible. So any or any sort of philosophical, societal, cultural argument, the bible there are Bible verses that he feels support his ideas.
00:46:40
Speaker
And I just was like, what the fuck ever? um I don't see the connection. But this particular one, and I would think that environmentalism and Christianity would go handin hand in hand.
00:46:50
Speaker
And there's probably a version of environmentalism that people think I'm talking about That's the absurd level, and that's not. I'm just talking about a general desire to maintain the world we live in sustainably and to acknowledge truths.
00:47:08
Speaker
And that seems to have escaped evangelicals over the last 30 plus years. Don't get it How deep does it go though? So you have that heart. what i Whenever you say evangelical, I picture lunatics like immediately. People that you're like, it's not even worth talking to because you're not.
00:47:24
Speaker
But then like the average, don't know, you think it's like down the average Christian who's got, you know, that non-secular church that the guy has, they have like a bass player and and a band and the guy and and and like- I don't know, man. The cool church.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah. there' No, there's there's Christian light churches that ah that are probably fucking environmental nutbags and yeah i mean that's fine i just think that there's been some messaging on the the deep right call it the deep right that's really weird could you say there's been a shift though in the since the last election like did you feel like when biden was the president there was a push the other way or because i always feel like in the u.s like it's stuff starts to boil in the other direction always. So like when there was too much Obama as people on the right might think, then it, then they push us real hard to the right and anti, you know, anti environmental. And then now I'm wondering if there's that, I don't just don't see the energy the other way as much as there was like the rally cries or people like, damn it, we're going to kill, we're going to ruin the earth if we, if we don't stop this.
00:48:32
Speaker
It's just a message that hasn't worked, but like, I think it's, I think there have been more tactical moves and we'll give the Biden administration credit. Even though he was asleep at the wheel, he was fucking sleep at the wheel. No, we'll give him credit, dude, for the EV credits and some of the promotion of sustainable...
00:48:51
Speaker
ah jobs jobs in the sustain sustainability and and wind and solar, and a lot of red states have benefited from that. And this big, beautiful piece of shit is going to eliminate a lot of that or phase it out pretty quickly, and that's going to hurt red states.
00:49:06
Speaker
I'm wondering why, well, most of the people in those states are like, religious? Where's the rally cry for like, this doesn't make sense. God would want us to do sustainable work for our planet. I don't get, where's that message? it's just completely non-existent as far as I can tell.
00:49:25
Speaker
could i don't know if you had the conversation with him, but you mentioned your dad. Maybe he's a good like, what so what would, if you were like, why why would you not wanna encourage sustainable projects or I don't know, less plastic waste, waste what would be his like counter argument?
00:49:41
Speaker
Or would he be like, yeah, that's fine. Or would he be, he's like, no, that's not what God wants. Is it that cut and dry? No, I don't know that you know if you framed a specific project that benefit the community, he would have anything to say about it.
00:49:53
Speaker
I think he would have a lot to say about worshiping creation and it it being a slippery slope to losing your relationship with God. So all of a sudden you care more about protecting that mountain than you do about the ah good word.
00:50:10
Speaker
and you And you're like, it's the same thing. Worshiping God, protecting the mountain is the same thing. Yeah, that's ah that's God created it just like you. And that's where the whole dominion thing is confusing to me. And I don't read the Bible, so people should know that. i don't fucking read pieces of it, but I don't like study it so they can come on a podcast and sound super educated like Ezra fucking Klein or some bullshit. No, i just I just find this to be an incongruency that is quite funny.
00:50:37
Speaker
I mean, we should read it. We should read the Bible. We should read it on air for the next 10 podcast episodes. I bet we get big numbers. Verse twelve one and Joseph said... that That interpretation of the Bible stuff, I don't know, but there's like... I mean, I guess you got to do it if you're if that's your business, religion, but it's like people's people's interpretation of it sometimes, it's like, it's crazy.
00:51:00
Speaker
It's like and Matthew said, but yeah, in Corinthians, you're like, but and they'll pick out like five words. Yeah, it'll be like, that's that's really what he meant, huh? Have you talked to a lot of preachers or or priests?
00:51:13
Speaker
No. mean, have you? Okay, because I've talked to a lot of like, not a lot, but I'd say a good two handfuls of like pastor type people. Fucking, it's like creep alert, creep alert.
00:51:25
Speaker
Like, do you want this fucking guy interpreting the Bible for you? Yeah, and that there's a that's the issue dude. It's like that and that might be what's what these people are I mean, I'm taking this outside of the realm of evan Evangelic people and stuff but like I think that's what people what's gotten kind of killed the environmental movement a little bit is the same thing like the people are interpreting the Bible most people are like that's a lunatic.
00:51:52
Speaker
Why would I why would I listen to this fucking guy who's telling me what Like these those are not normal people usually that get into that. But then the environmentalists, the tree hugger, the guy who's walking around in college town selling Sierra Club.
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah, they went overboard and and ah in a lot of ways that just the fear mongering around climate change, even if it's semi justified or justified completely. Even though it's real.
00:52:16
Speaker
It doesn't, it didn't land because it's like, and people are like, well, what do you want me to do? that That message didn't stick in the same way. So you you now see the media talks about it in a much more logical way.
00:52:29
Speaker
There's not that same fervor. And I think that was probably a mistake. But I get that there was passion about Just like Christians are passionate about the good word and they evangelize all over the world.
00:52:41
Speaker
You can see why people who care about the environment talk about it. But you know we're fucking crazy, dude, when you've got millions and millions of people that go and watch that Joel.
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah. this but Again, back to I don't care about this stuff is like, are you going to waste your time talking to somebody that listens to that guy? And there's millions of Americans that probably think he's great.
00:53:02
Speaker
Are you going to fucking, are you going to convince one of them or waste any time on those people? I'll talk to him because it's fun. I'll talk you But it's like, I got no, i got no I mean, I just don't have any need to to be like, well, I can i get your point on Joel's words.
00:53:21
Speaker
What's his name? I keep on going to college with an Ornstein who's Jewish. It's probably not Ornstein. I think it's Olstein. Olstein, yeah. The Southern. Yeah, he's got a Jewish last name. And the prosperity and all this nonsense.
00:53:33
Speaker
But no like this is why the Christians think they're persecuted because we're coming on here talking about a group of people, whether they're all, you know, they operate the same way, which we know that they don't, but there there does seem to be a trend for them to kind of share the same beliefs about most cultural things.
00:53:51
Speaker
But who's more persecuting than hardcore Christian people? They're they're the worst. Exactly. They're the worst. They're so, they want to exclude anybody doesn't believe. They call people non-believers. When's the last time you your average alcoholic Catholic from the Midwest is fucking preaching to anyone?
00:54:08
Speaker
<unk>s like Dude, I know. It's something about the evangelical group of fucking weirdo Joel Osteen fucks. But it's that's what their stupid country was founded on, dude. that It was like that religious freedom for lunatics to move to the new world and start up cults.
00:54:23
Speaker
It's like, that's that's the US. s Purity. Cynicism alert. It's true. And then we're all we're all an extension of that. And once you get that hardcore like in that direction, you have people rebel against it. And then it's like,
00:54:36
Speaker
calm down. Like then all of a sudden everyone's got to be like, you know, there's a lot of people here that are they almost everybody grew up Catholic and like everyone, almost a hundred percent. There's a lot of people that don't, that most people actually, they just kind of get away from it, but they'll still like, you know, baptize their kids and they'll still like celebrate Christmas and celebrate as baby Jesus being born, not as the day of Santa, but,
00:55:00
Speaker
but they're not really practicing, but they also don't go insane like the in the other direction or anything. They're just like, it's just running in the background. No one's freaking out about it. Everything has to get too fucking hardcore in the US.
00:55:12
Speaker
It does, because it's it because that freedom thing that you said does come to play so much. Think about the threat because of the logic of paganism, their version of paganism. Which is what all their religions are founded on. yeah even well Even the Catholic schedule calendar is based on mostly pagan holidays.
00:55:32
Speaker
great Yeah, great. Okay, you've heard. You should say that to your dad. The Native Americans, right? They worship the things that gave them life, right? The buffalo and yeah whatever.
00:55:44
Speaker
That's logical. to If you were going to direct your spiritual and energy to anything, you could argue you know the ocean might be a good place. Man, it provides so much life. Or are the river next to your house, the mountain.
00:55:59
Speaker
You can see that why Christianity might be threatened by that. Because there is logic, especially as the environmental problems problems get more prominent and and especially as science improves to where we can... explain more things. The big bang theory was a huge threat.
00:56:13
Speaker
The big bang theory to me is just as mysterious and could be tied to creation as easily as their 5,000 year Adam and Eve nonsense.
00:56:25
Speaker
I don't see a huge conflict there. I mean, you know, science and Christianity, I think can go together or science and religion. Right. It makes sense that there were some two people started this whole whole thing. If, uh,
00:56:38
Speaker
Darwinism people think we evolved from apes. So there's still like some some very, only a few apes started this whole thing and then we expanded with but time, right? Exactly. And then why couldn't that be God's plan?
00:56:51
Speaker
why Why doesn't that make sense? So I have a problem with that. We have such a ah distance between science and and religion these days. Well, they they might need they might get, I just can't believe the energy and like the personality it takes to get, I've seen it too. My my wife had it has an aunt that's like went real hardcore, even to the point of telling her that,
00:57:14
Speaker
She's basically going to hell because her she was a descendant of Cain and Abel and those two brothers or something like that. Like, where just like, yeah, you're kind of fucked because you're a dark-skinned person or something like that.
00:57:26
Speaker
What? Yeah, but she was in a she's in a religious group probably like kind of similar what your dad's in. But these are people that they were not doing well in society. Like she was she was probably like, she was doing fine, but like a partier and you know, pretty vain and and like his headless plexus surgery. And it's like, there's, I don't know if there's another way for them to like live normal. Like, you you know, you mentioned your, your, maybe your dad got there.
00:57:53
Speaker
Maybe in some ways it was good for him. Like he yeah for sure changed his life a little bit. So for some people, it's like, they they have no, they listen to message. Like they're, they're crazy.
00:58:04
Speaker
It could have been, yeah it could have been anything like, but they could they got into that, you know? but But I'm like, who who does that happen to? and like How do you spend that much energy? I mean, in a way, I'm like, it's impressive that you have that strong and belief in anything. like We always mention that i'm I'm not non-committal to anything.
00:58:20
Speaker
like I can't even imagine that they commit that hard. even like Rastas, dude, like Rastafarianism, they like the the people, what they believe in that Hale Selassie was the reincarnation of God, this like Ethiopian guy that they really oversaw like some horrible things in Ethiopia, famine, and all this terrible crap and was basically just like any other monarch, monarchy.
00:58:42
Speaker
Like I can't imagine how hes help people get that into something and how they just have this blind faith. It's like, it's kind of impressive to me. Do you think like really, really religious people are are more stupid?
00:58:53
Speaker
Well, it seems like- Less questioning. ah Or they're like, they have more passion for life than me or something. That's the other way. They either dumber or or, and then there's the other things like they had no choice.
00:59:04
Speaker
Like if they don't go all in on something, they're they're a druggie out on the street or they're whatever. They have terrible life. They're abusive. Who knows what they're fucking doing? But like, there's that. But yeah you basically think they're dumber.
00:59:17
Speaker
Well, there's a good book that's pretty compelling by this guy, Sam Harris. There is good book. Oh, yes, there is. It's called The Bible. No, it's about free will. It's an hour long. ah Check it out on Spotify. just It's a listen.
00:59:30
Speaker
But it just talks about... ah and Let me write that down, buddy. Sam Harris? What's called? Free Will. I'll listen to it on my way to surfing, and i don't even have to drive that far. The oceans have risen risen so much.
00:59:44
Speaker
Anyway, he talks to just about the the factors in actual decision-making. you know There's this idea that we have free will that because we just consciously choose a lot of things. Well, he tries to explain that, no, there's deep unconscious thought that we can't explain their life experience, and ah togen genetics is a big part of it. that that All of that influences the causal nature of you choosing to do something.
01:00:10
Speaker
And so that people take a lot of credit for like, I'm choosing to be a Christian. and Well, you had that shit pounded in your fucking brain while you were growing up.
01:00:21
Speaker
Right. There's a whole host of things that lead us to be who we are. And I think when we, what I took out of it is, he didn't say any of this, but I took out like, way a man, it makes me a little more empathetic for the passionate Christian who I ultimately think is kind of stupid, but they didn't have a choice. Like you said, they didn't have a choice to like,
01:00:41
Speaker
get so hung up on this shit. It's like the religious lottery though. Like, you know, you look at someone who's a devout Jew, for example, when they grew up in that environment and they're pretty comfortable in it, they were born into it in a lot of ways.
01:00:54
Speaker
I guess you weren't really born into anything, but when you are, it's like, it's hard. Like you weren't born into a straight up Catholic family or Jewish family or Muslim, right?
01:01:06
Speaker
and When you were young. I wonder how powerful my specific genetics are. and And I wonder if I would have railed against that regardless or questioned it deeply. Because of the Cherokee Indian?
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, because the Cherokee gave me the paganism. But I give this argument to to my dad or to other people, this whole idea of eternal salvation in the Christian religion.
01:01:29
Speaker
What happens to a guy who was born in Iraq or Malaysia or whatever and born into a Muslim family and grows up to... worship the quran and believe muslim uh doctrine and in a sense they believe that you know jesus is not the son of god which by virtue of that belief you're not going to get into heaven according to christianity and so that guy having been born into just a different country automatically he automatically burns in hell for eternity that's hard to it's hard to reconcile
01:02:06
Speaker
It's also pretty, what's crazy is like, we'll listen to like, even like Iranian fundamentalist Islamic leaders and their death to the US, death to Israel.
01:02:16
Speaker
By the way, they should fucking stop that. but But like their message is the same as your dad's in a way. Or my wife's aunt. or You know, like theirs is just like, it's just flipped, right?
01:02:29
Speaker
Like they're going to get saved and all the all the heathens and in Israel Babylon or whatever are gonna are gonna perish. The infidels. Like, it's just the same.
01:02:41
Speaker
It's fucking weird, dude. It's so weird. i guess the I guess the idea, like, maybe maybe some of it is, like, we think religion should be more about love. And maybe they're like, no, that's not what it is.
01:02:53
Speaker
And because of that, that's why you have these these bad messages. Or not bad, but it's a different different thing. That could be. They could be right. I don't know. mean, I know there's like weird things in life. Like, you know, like most of the time you got to go through some pain to have some success.
01:03:08
Speaker
Life is hard. You know that sacrifice is always a thing that gets you places. And those are all like basic, basic religious messages that are rooted in all different types of religion. But then humans come in and push it to a to a point where you're like, what the hell are you talking about?
01:03:23
Speaker
I'm a PLS. I just got baptized. Now I hate the motherfucking coral reefs. I just got baptized.
01:03:35
Speaker
Now I think bicycles are for fat. just got baptized. Now I got invest in oil and gas or just got baptized Now I think global warming is a scam I am a Christian, understand?
01:03:50
Speaker
The planet is on fire, I don't give a damn Bring on the rapture, bring on the rapture Mother Earth's my bitch, Mother Earth's my bitch