Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
She's Not Well
179 Plays2 years ago
We all know there's so much going on in the world at this moment. It's difficult to be feeling so many feelings all at the same time, and this episode speaks to Bianca's feelings about switching careers. The job hunt (on top of our state of the world) is causing your girl to crack, and we just wanted to talk to our closest friends about it. We love all of you, and appreciate everything you do for us, including just listening to a girl who needs you.
For 30% off your first three months at Zencastr, go to zencastr.com/pricing and enter promo code artpoptalk0.
To receive 2 months of fee-free investing from Vinovest, go to zen.ai/artpoptalk.
For all of Artpop Talk's resources, click HERE.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Art Pop Talk is excited to announce that the presenting sponsor of this podcast is Zencaster. Podcasting remotely can be challenging, but it doesn't have to be. Zencaster's all-in-one, web-based solution makes the process quick and painless, the way it should be.
00:00:19
Speaker
So you guys have heard me talk about that. When I edit our episodes, I always want it to be the best listening experience for you all. You know that I am obsessed with sound quality. I make it a top priority and Zencaster provides amazing sound quality and HD video.
00:00:35
Speaker
Not only does it make the editing process literally so easy for me, it is the most user friendly platform that we've used to record. Gianna and I have been using Zencaster even before they became a sponsor of this podcast because it is so accessible and that is what APT is all about.
00:00:53
Speaker
And it is the easiest platform for all of our guests to join as well. There is nothing to download. They just click the link that I send them and we get recording with no issues. Zencaster is all about making your podcasting experience easy and with everything from local recording to automatic post-productions in the tool,
00:01:13
Speaker
You don't have to leave your browser to get the episode done. We want you to have the same easy experience as we do for all of our podcasting and content needs. So if you go to zencaster.com slash pricing and enter
00:01:29
Speaker
promo code artpoptalk0, you'll get 30% off your first three months. zencaster.com, Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R.com slash pricing, promo code artpoptalk0. It is time to share your story.
Episode Introduction and Mental Health Focus
00:01:54
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Sad Girl Central Station. I'm Bianca. And I'm Gianna. Bianca, how you doing? Not well, bitch. Starting off on a real high note here. Not well. But today I am hoping that you and the Art Pop Tarts will be able to help me out for this week.
00:02:19
Speaker
Bianca, that is exactly what we are all here for. You know, we've arrived at Sad Girl Central Station before and there's no doubt that we will stop there again in the future. But for now, let's try to art pop talk our way around Sad Girl Town.
00:02:39
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Before we begin, I just wanted to offer a trigger warning for mental health before we get into today's episode. That is going to be what this episode is about today, along with career notes, job searching, and the mental toll that that is taking on me in particular. So just wanted to offer that before we get started.
00:03:04
Speaker
Hello, everybody. I just want to preface too. I feel like I have some sexy phlegm going on today and it's truly just because it's 7.30 in the goddamn morning. See, I feel like my voice is not sexy. It's like the cry voice because I've just been crying so much that my voice is hoarse and gross. I think.
00:03:35
Speaker
Honestly, I think our sense of humor is just like broken at this point too. Like, wow, my voice sounds so funny. Oh my God, I've been crying so much. Yuppers, that's where we're at.
00:03:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that truly, Bianca, I know that you have this picture later on down in the script of Rachel Green applying for jobs. She's like, you and your fear. In my head, all I can hear is, you're a funny guy Chandler. Her voice might be like, that's why I'm just approaching.
00:04:19
Speaker
everything in Sad Girl Town today? Well, you know what? I think we have the fear a little bit because we are doing this episode. We're not too scared to go for it. I'm too afraid. So, Bianca and everybody, we've decided to move forward with today's episode in a little bit of a different direction than originally planned.
00:04:48
Speaker
So we will get into everything we're going to talk about today here in a second, but here are kind of little highlights of what's going on and what we were originally going to do.
Adapting Episode Direction to Personal Lives
00:05:02
Speaker
So we were going to talk about me going to Greece. I am leaving tomorrow. But Bianca and I were talking last night about
00:05:14
Speaker
APT and just about how it's a medium of flexibility. You know, I was just telling Bianca that we don't have a lot of control in almost literally every other facet of our daily lives, but art pop talk is like the one medium that we do have control over and we want it to reflect what is going on in our life and have it be that guide for us.
00:05:41
Speaker
So we decided to switch things up today and we know that you guys literally won't mind because I think you love it when we also go rogue. Yeah, speaking to your point, John, about how
00:05:58
Speaker
We want APT to function as a reflection of honesty and how we are feeling and how we are seeing the world in a present moment. You have spoken before about the struggles you were going through last year and how you continue to navigate those circumstances as they're part of your everyday life, but to start us off, can you
00:06:21
Speaker
talk a little bit about the idea of faking it, that you've pushed through on the show. And I think it's important, you know, we always want to put our best foot forward for all of the listeners because we want to be here for you as much as you are here for us. And I think that this is really going to help us guide how our conversation moves forward in terms of putting on a brave face and how
00:06:44
Speaker
women in particular feel like they must do that in many aspects of their life. Like women are always just constantly pushing through at every level.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I think like just kind of falling trapped to that line of thinking, I feel as though in the beginning, honestly, APT just kind of became an extension of that because this is something that Bianca and I love. It's something that we consider to be our work. And I don't like referring to APT as a side hustle either, because I feel like that's super demeaning to the work that
00:07:20
Speaker
we do just because I don't make my primary living off of it. In the start of APT2, I think we were really trying to navigate what we wanted to do with this platform, but more importantly, what we felt like
00:07:36
Speaker
we got from other platforms, what we felt like we didn't, what was important to us. And that big thing was consistency. We wanted to make sure that we were providing you guys with an episode once every week. And if we were going to take a week off, that was like a very serious discussion. I do not talk about it that much on the podcast because it is still very fresh and I am
00:08:01
Speaker
starting to get more comfortable talking about it.
Bianca's Health Journey and Career Challenges
00:08:05
Speaker
But our pop talk started like right at the cusp of graduation. And for everybody, 2020 spring was the pandemic. But 2020 spring for me was when I got diagnosed with chronic illness. And that is also the time I started our pop talk. And so I am going to just like take a minute for like snaps for Gianna because that's fucking a lot.
00:08:32
Speaker
Snaps for Gianna. I'm snapping in the mic and I don't care because it's my show. Sorry, that was annoying. What are we at? A poetry reading? What is this song story? Poetry. Poetry. Poetry. A plus, plus, plus. Yeah, we are broken for sure. What's the compass and the stock and this thing that tells time?
00:09:04
Speaker
And even when I just kind of go back and listen to some episodes, and even in listening to those episodes in the moment, I can just very much tell that I'm not even trying. I can't even get through Chitty Chaddy.
00:09:23
Speaker
because mentally I'm just very much not in a good place. This is also the time when I was unemployed for three months after graduation and had to move back home. And so that was just completely draining. And yeah, it's just not fun. But also it was either that or I was in complete physical pain. So it's just not fun. And at the time I wish that
00:09:53
Speaker
I would have taken it upon myself to not put pressure on myself for something like Art Pop Talk, which is a platform that I created that I have control over and have a listener base of people who are very genuine and want to listen to a podcast that is genuine and they want that honesty and transparency.
00:10:17
Speaker
And so I hope in the future to be able to talk about chronic pain more. That's not what we're here to talk about today. But I don't want us to bullshit through an episode anymore. I don't want us to bullshit
00:10:36
Speaker
chitty chatty. If one of us is not in a good mood or if I am in pain that day, perhaps, I might just tell you guys I'm in a much better place pain-wise. I have a job now. I know that in past episodes, guys, I've had four different jobs in the pandemic and it's fun to joke about.
Job Searching During the Pandemic
00:10:58
Speaker
If it is a running joke that you guys have picked up on, but that's
00:11:03
Speaker
It's also seriously no joke at the same time. It's very difficult. I do not want us to fake it through an episode. When Bianca was talking about this last night, I was just like, it does not feel right to do a happy cheery episode about Gianna going to Greece. That's still fine. That's still going to happen. I'm going to talk to you guys about my trip when I get back and we can talk about those fun things.
00:11:28
Speaker
Um, but more things right now are pressing in the moment and I don't want to put Bianca through what I put myself through. You know what I mean? And I was telling Jenna last night, I just really appreciate that. And you know, whenever we're talking.
00:11:46
Speaker
I felt a certain sense of guilt because I knew that Gianna had pushed through so much whenever we were first getting off the ground when we had really built up a listener base. And it was hard to talk about not being consistent with you guys when that is what we had built so much of the startup of APT round and Gianna really just blew me away with all of her strength and
00:12:13
Speaker
pushing through every single episode to give that to you guys. And while that's still an incredible and amazing thing that she did, now I'm feeling guilty for being in a similar situation, but obviously a different place than Gianna was dealing with different types of things, but mentally being in a similar situation. And
00:12:41
Speaker
It's like we were talking last night, I don't know, is it my turn to kind of push through these circumstances? How should we navigate this? And Gianna was just an incredible partner and co-host and said, you know what, let's break it down. Let's really talk about this because it is our platform. We made ABT and although we love the listeners and you guys are as much a part of this show as we are, we do have the flexibility to talk about
00:13:10
Speaker
what we want. And we're best when we're authentic. And that's what we're trying to work through today, but still keep the same type of content. Obviously, we're going to get into that is so very much art related, and it is going to be relatable to a lot of the art pop tarts. But nevertheless, it does feel like somewhat of a departure, because Gianna has spent so much of the first year of APT
00:13:35
Speaker
doing that every single week for the episode. I just wrote in our script, you might notice that our script is maybe quite dribbled today. It might be a different type of layout than the usual. I just wrote how the turntables, because that's exactly how I'm feeling. They have turned
00:13:56
Speaker
Quite quickly, I feel like in my head, the exact scene from Friends, right? Giana's saying I put this little picture here where Rachel, in one scene, says, you have no idea how good it feels to never make coffee for someone again. It's the episode where Rachel quits.
00:14:17
Speaker
And then it cuts to her in the next scene having to learn how to make coffee for her new boss. And the difference here is that I have no boss and no prospects. And then I just wrote, isn't that funny?
00:14:36
Speaker
And it's just wild because in my head I feel as though it was last week where I was saying, oh, isn't it interesting how I may never work for a museum again, I'm out of a job trying to be grateful for the situation that I'm in, trying to turn, you know, lemons into lemonade here. It's great that I have a little bit of time off, not by choice, but I'm going to take what I can get.
00:14:58
Speaker
Fuck that. That mentality has not been working. And I definitely was trying to feel that gratitude a few weeks ago when I was talking about ending my job at the museum, but realizing that that's not really where I want to be. I was just trying to make better circumstances out of the one I was in. And now that that got us here.
00:15:29
Speaker
So Bianca, just walk us through it. Start to finish wherever the beginning is, wherever we are today. Here's the thing. I don't want this episode to just sound like I'm complaining because that doesn't feel... We all need to complain every now and then. We all have that right to complain about what's bothering us. I don't want this to come across as though I'm just being whiny and nagging, complaining,
00:15:58
Speaker
to the art pop tarts. But one, I wanna talk about these frustrations because like Gianna said, this is our platform and we wanna be honest with you guys about how I'm doing. Two, I think a lot of people are going through very similar frustrations, either trying to find a job or are working through a career change. So many people right now are making that transition in their lives from one industry to the other, really taking
00:16:27
Speaker
in what they want out of a job search. And that is the happy part of this situation. What media coverage and Instagram and podcasts and everyone in that circle isn't talking about is how miserable making that change actually is. Three, no part of this job hunt is fun and
00:16:53
Speaker
I don't necessarily think that our pop talk is going to change that. Like with one episode, we are not going to change the lives in the job market. But I know that I might feel better hearing from someone else that they're not alone and just feeling so completely broken down and stripped away by the way that the system is working.
00:17:19
Speaker
This is not a new concept. Gianna and I are extremely aware that employment systems are racist and sexist and ageist and ableist and all bullshit for so many people. And just like every other system and institution that we talk about here on this podcast, but at this moment, that is what I am going through.
Systemic Employment Issues
00:17:45
Speaker
That is what I am experiencing. So we are going to talk about it.
00:17:49
Speaker
right after this break. Fine wine has long been a cornerstone of wealth generation and preservation. The problem? Historically, it's been reserved for the ultra wealthy. VinoVest is changing that. If you know us, one, you know that your two Italian co-hosts come from a wine loving and wine making family. And two, you know that making smart financial decisions, especially for women, is really important to how we think about money on this podcast.
00:18:18
Speaker
I was amazed at how easy it was to get started in diversifying your investment portfolio. Getting into investing or growing your portfolio can be intimidating when you're new to the game. Wine has one third the volatility of the stock market and has outperformed the global equities market over the past 30 years, with 10.6% annualized returns, proving that the returns can be as robust as your favorite red.
00:18:44
Speaker
VinoVest makes it easy to acquire new investments equipped with a team of world-class sommeliers who evaluate wine and determine which ones will gain value over time. You own the wines in your portfolio outright. You can buy, sell, and even drink them whenever you want. Go to zen.ai slash artpoptalk to receive two months of fee-free investing.
00:19:08
Speaker
Be sure to mention that Art Pop Talk is helping you save on two months of management fees. It's time to start investing with VinoVest today. All right, welcome back, everyone.
Networking and Career Aspirations
00:19:24
Speaker
Gianna, this is not another ad, but I want to shout out Bumble BFF because I hung out with some truly amazing women from Bumble BFF last night. And yesterday, during the day, I had pretty much a breakdown with Gianna on the phone. And then I went to a friend's house for dinner and wine last night. And let me tell you,
00:19:53
Speaker
Bumble BFF has truly brought the most amazing women into my life and they were just so supportive and this is maybe the second or third time I've hung out with some of them and just being able to talk to them like I'm talking to the listeners right now
00:20:14
Speaker
really lifted my spirits and made me feel valuable for the first time in a long time. And Bumble BFF really has also been an amazing networking tool. And just in terms of not necessarily networking in terms of, oh, I work at this institution. Let me see who I can talk to and things like that. Not trying to necessarily get an in at any of these women's places of work, but just in terms of offering resume help.
00:20:43
Speaker
offering interview practices, offering tips on how to land a job or search for a job. These women are truly so incredible and they were so helpful last night. And it's actually for me, Jen, I don't know if you've switched to any of the other modes on Bumble, but for me, Bumble BFF has actually been more helpful in terms of
00:21:07
Speaker
job and career advice or networking than the bumble biz mode has been for me. When I entered the bumble biz mode, it's for networking, but I did not see one single woman on the bumble biz mode, not a one. And it's perfectly fine, but it's mostly men being like, oh yeah, I'm working on my music looking for producer here in Boston. It's like, we are not.
00:21:37
Speaker
going to network. Interesting. That to say, last night I feel is one of the first times where the concept of women supporting women was a very real and tangible thing that didn't feel like a phrase for commercialism.
00:21:57
Speaker
You know what I mean? And although I have so many incredible women in my life, I have amazing family and friends. This was, I mean, not that they're strangers anymore, but we have not hung out very often. You know, we have not known each other for a very long time.
00:22:13
Speaker
and to feel supported in that way by a group of women here in Boston who are working so hard on their careers and a few of them just started new jobs. Some of them have recently moved to Boston for jobs. It was just really amazing and really lifted my spirits from where I was at last time I talked to Gianna yesterday.
00:22:36
Speaker
Well, I think that that is so great for a lot of different reason. I also feel like maybe part of the reason why that may be hit so different is because you are finding a community of women where you live. I can be as supportive as I want, but the reality is I'm not there with you. People need people.
00:22:58
Speaker
real people and There's nothing wrong with not lizard people not lizard people or virtual people you need real people and it's really hard moving to a new place not knowing anyone and I know that you're gonna talk about this in a second, but about really why you move to Boston and also I think like I am really interested and I really love talking just about like partnered relationships and just being really
00:23:28
Speaker
transparent about those operations just because, I don't know, partnerships are really hard and also adult friendships are just really hard. I think making that
00:23:49
Speaker
transition with your partner. It's just like a whole other beast. I don't know. It's all fine. It can be great, but it's also just hard. Yeah. We found out in early September that Andrew got his job in Boston. Since September, I have been applying for jobs, not necessarily at the same rate,
00:24:15
Speaker
at first because I was still employed at that time. But, you know, since September, it has been a steady stream of applications until maybe Thanksgiving or so when I really kind of went to town on them. And, you know, last June we talked with Onyx Montes about how we feel the lifespan of an art historian is that you major in art history and then eventually you can't sustain it and you move on to something else.
00:24:43
Speaker
Now that I am in that moving on stage, it by far has been the hardest part of all of this, which may seem obvious, I suppose, but
00:24:59
Speaker
The transition is taking a much harder toll on me than I thought it was going to at first. I started out really positively knowing that my time in the museum world was coming to a close. I don't necessarily feel comfortable in the museum world anymore.
00:25:16
Speaker
I am looking for an opportunity that is going to allow me to grow in a career. And I can't remember if we've talked about this on the show or not, or just with you, Gianna, but I want to get promoted at some point in my life. And I didn't know that, I didn't know when I was studying art history, when I entered the job force, that if I stayed in museums, that was not going to be a possibility for me.
00:25:47
Speaker
there is not a lot of upward mobility in the museum realm. Of course we've talked about this, you guys know I do not have a PhD, I'm not planning on getting a PhD in art history at that point, but there would be very, even if I did, there would be so little opportunity to move upward in the museum
00:26:08
Speaker
realm and taking a look at the past two years at my job in a museum, knowing that's not where I want to stay, really figuring out how we want to proceed with a long-term career. That's just not where I want to be anymore. I want the opportunity to grow and do other things. And the stagnant placement of someone who studied art history, who doesn't have a PhD,
00:26:35
Speaker
is just not what I want. And there's nothing wrong with that. And if you're listening to this, I want you to know that you don't have to feel guilty about that. And again, that's another concept that we've talked about before is
00:26:49
Speaker
in the art world being so incredibly grateful for what you have been given, being grateful for that unpaid internship, being grateful for your job that undervalues you either in the workforce, monetarily, so on and so forth. And for a long time, I felt guilty about that. My opportunity at the museum was such a great opportunity. I should take it and be so grateful and all this stuff. And while I am, my job brought me to Andrew. It brought me here to Boston.
00:27:19
Speaker
It has given me a lot. There have been so many silver linings about my job working remotely, being able to do APT with Gianna. I don't have to be grateful that it didn't give me certain things, which now I'm looking for in another field. So I am at this point where I'm applying for a lot of different things and
00:27:45
Speaker
I'm getting so desperate that yes, I am applying for jobs at museums. Haven't gotten any responses from there either. So it's like, you know, people might think, why don't you just, if you're having so much trouble, why don't you just try to apply for museum positions? Why don't you just try to apply for stuff in your field? Because it's fucking mentally draining. It is, it is not easy. Like, oh my God, I hate that so much. And when you're,
00:28:14
Speaker
just constantly feeling rejected. I also just want to like, when that point comes when you do get offered a job, it's like this hold that they also have on you that's like, I'm finally telling you yes, somebody wants you. Also, how are you going to say no to that too? It's just a totally abusive relationship.
00:28:41
Speaker
And to the fact that you have to spend so much time and energy and let's all be real, you have to fake it so hard in an interview. You have to put on a good face. Bianca was just telling me about one of... I think it was a job recruiter. It wasn't even an interview. She didn't show up for your meeting. And then you have to hop on with her the next day and be like, oh no, it's fine. And you have to be the bigger person. It's not fine and it's not easy. The fact that we have to...
00:29:12
Speaker
fake it, sit through, put on a good face. I mean, you were just left totally and completely exhausted after that. And to apply for a job that you know you're not gonna get, oh my gosh, I can just, I feel that, I know that. It's horrible. Yeah, exactly. Museums do not want me and that is okay because I don't necessarily want them
00:29:40
Speaker
back, but even so, you get in this mode where it's like, I'm just going to apply. And people around town, they tell you, or colleagues tell you, people try to give you advice, oh, why don't you just apply at the MFA? Great, I'll get right on that. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. It's natural to give advice that you're comfortable giving that is comfortable for people to offer.
00:30:06
Speaker
It is just excruciating to, again, be so stripped down where it's like, this is the level that I'm at. I don't even want this job. I don't agree with this institution's practices, but I'm so desperate. And this is a thing that I have at one point in my life felt comfort in. I'll just see where it goes. And you know what, turns out it goes nowhere because museums have no interest in hiring me because I don't have a PhD. When I left,
00:30:34
Speaker
My job came to an end. I didn't choose to leave. My two-year contract was up. I obviously don't live in that location anymore. It makes sense.
00:30:47
Speaker
My position ended, my former colleagues were saying to me, oh my gosh, the job market is so great right now. Everyone is hiring. You're going to find something so soon. And while that may be true, that piece of advice, again, is so natural for people to offer and I'm by no means
00:31:05
Speaker
saying I'm unappreciative for the people who are putting effort into me, telling me it's going to be okay, giving me advice because I do appreciate that. And it does mean that they care. People who give me that advice means they care. But it's almost like women's art Wednesday is going to laugh at me, but it reminds me of last week when they were like, okay, this is an easy question.
00:31:27
Speaker
And then we get it wrong. And it's like, oh, everyone is hiring, except you can't find a job. No, right. It's like they're just dangling like the bait in front of me and then they just take it away. Right. So the only piece of advice, I suppose I don't even know if this is advice, just, you know, piece of goodwill is
00:31:50
Speaker
the sentiment that everyone is hiring right now, surely you'll get a job at some point. And it's like, surely I will. But that has yet to be seen.
Emotional Impact of Job Rejections
00:32:01
Speaker
And I have a certain skill set and an educational background. And while I might not be looking at museums specifically coming from art history, I have a
00:32:14
Speaker
gamut of strong transferable skills that I know will fit into another role outside of museums. All that being said, I am cracking and I feel like I am resulting back to this mindset of just take what you can get. Just take what you can get because that is what the art world has kind of
00:32:36
Speaker
instilled in me so while I know in my head you have so many projects that you have worked on that aren't your thesis I am starting to feel so desperate and everyone keeps saying everyone's hiring everyone's hiring well I I am just trying to apply for anything and everything that things I don't even want or that I know wouldn't make me happy or that I know wouldn't offer me the
00:33:03
Speaker
things that I just said I wanted out of a career. And at this point, I just, I mean, it's, it's well over 200 applications, I feel like it might be over 300 applications that I've put in at this time. And that, that number, and receiving rejection after rejection, you know, it never feels good for anyone. And
00:33:29
Speaker
There are so many people who go through this all the time, but we've just accepted it as that's part of the deal. When you're looking for a new job, that's part of the deal. You're going to get far more no's than you are yes's. It's just wearing on me the constant rejection. I've been on seven interviews in this past week alone. I mean, that's what my weeks are looking like. It's just interview prep, interview prep,
00:33:56
Speaker
interview prep one thing after the other seven interviews in this one week. And when you get to that stage, you put in so many applications, a lot of the times it's a no, but when you get that glimmer of a yes, we'd like to interview you.
00:34:14
Speaker
You want to feel good for a second, but I'm also starting to guard myself. And it's hard for me to get excited about those yeses that people want to give me. Even the yeses that I'm getting aren't necessarily the ones that were maybe a top priority for me. Like if I applied for an application, one that I really feel I would be an amazing person for this job, but those aren't the interviews that I'm getting most of the time. It's kind of the ones that I'm like less excited about.
00:34:43
Speaker
And I was talking to a few friends about this and Gianna, I want to get your take on it too because what I am starting to get that has been a lot more common is this idea of, oh, you're such a creative person. I don't think you would be right for this role. And I just, okay. Ooh, deep breath. When I am in interviews,
00:35:11
Speaker
I am picking up on the same kind of idea where the person interviewing me will say, oh my gosh, you're such a creative person. Are you sure you want to give that up to be in this role? Or you seem like such a creative person.
00:35:27
Speaker
Why do you want to switch to marketing? Oh, you're such a creative person. I don't think that you'll fit in here as if creativity is non-existent in something that doesn't reside in an art space. And the thing that's really getting me about that is on the job descriptions,
00:35:48
Speaker
must have a creative mindset, must be a creative person looking for someone with a creative ability to do this, would love a creative person to bring new ideas and projects to the table. That is where my creativity lies. And
00:36:04
Speaker
I know that it is my responsibility as the person presenting my skill set to an interviewer to say, you know, yes, I have a creative background, but this is how my creative skills can be used to manage this project or so on and so forth. What I'm getting frustrated by is the notion that my creative background in art history to other people is meaning studio work.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yes, I can talk through that and explain with people, you know, my skill set lies here, here, and here, so on and so forth. I can spin my quote unquote creative background to work to my advantage.
00:36:40
Speaker
However, I find it wildly fascinating that my background was in art history for a reason. I went into art history because I am not the creator. I am the researcher. I am the analyst. I am the person who likes to do the looking, not the person who likes to do the creating. And so there's this
00:37:04
Speaker
very interesting consensus among the people who are interviewing me that my background in art or at an art museum means that I am this kind of all-encompassing creator when my skill set is different. And yes, again, I am using that to my advantage. We can talk through that. I have a responsibility to share
00:37:32
Speaker
what's actually happening with the person who is interviewing me. But nonetheless, the job description is like, oh, you're such a creative person, you're not right for this role. And so, you know, I was kind of thinking, Gianna, we should maybe talk about how that seems to be an
00:37:48
Speaker
interesting detriment right now and you have a little story about something kind of somewhere. I don't know if you want to share. You know the funny thing about the situation that you are alluding to is because that was for a design coordinator job. That was for an artist job. Oh my God.
00:38:10
Speaker
Where to begin with this one? I applied for a job a year ago at the anthropology in Oklahoma City and a girlfriend of mine actually works for the anthropology and she's actually moving to Seattle to continue to work for this company. I have some serious qualms with anthropology as a company with it being just a religious affiliated company.
00:38:40
Speaker
Whatever, like this was a job opening that had something to do with art and it was also get this sculptural. Like I would be like building really elaborate sets for storefronts, something that is super creative. Let's be real, like the anthropology store works for a reason.
00:38:56
Speaker
because it's cute. And in my interview, they actually put me through a lot. It was kind of a pretty rigorous interview. I met with two women first who worked in the store and then I had a different interview with a gentleman who was kind of like, he was a design coordinator, but almost like for like the entire anthropology like franchise. It seemed like I think he worked for a store
00:39:26
Speaker
But he had been with the company for such a long time that he gets to kind of help make decisions about what the stores actually create. So a question that I got and how that works is you actually don't have a lot of creative freedom. Like you have to make what, you know, we tell you to make.
00:39:44
Speaker
And that was truly, honestly, 100% fine with me. I just wanted, it was a job that I would kind of be working by myself. I, at the time, believed that I was still working at the assisted living community with people with dementia, not up my alley. That was a hard, hard job that I was not.
00:40:10
Speaker
equipped for and did not have training for so I could work by myself. I explicitly and just kept repeating that like I'm really just looking to you know get my hands dirty and just be able to make things. Here are some examples of me like doing commissions for other people like I am very comfortable with making artwork for other purposes but also let me tell you why I'm interested
00:40:37
Speaker
in the store concept that anthropology has created. Here I am talking about things also with these two women about just creating interdisciplinary spaces, creating
Gianna's Job Application Experiences
00:40:50
Speaker
spaces that are inclusive, which also, let's be real, is even some bullshit in itself because anthropology is really not an inclusive storefront just with the price point alone.
00:41:04
Speaker
But I think there is truth to the way that art is inviting and how that brings people in and how visually the space is inclusive, like company politics wise and price range wise and diversity wise, it's not. And then with my part two interview, I remember talking to this guy over Zoom, a really casual conversation. He was even working on a
00:41:29
Speaker
Project with cyanotypes, which is basically like prints found in nature where you print with the Sun I had just written a piece at 21 City Museum Hotel about an exhibition on cyanotypes and I'm a printmaker like all really good talking points and then we had a really chill conversation about Art pop talk and he was telling me about like horror and I was telling him about like these episodes that we've done on Halloween and monster theory and like what's your favorite horror movie just having a casual conversation and
00:41:59
Speaker
I would also just like to bring up that a woman who is the interviewee, I think I'm very good at turning on and off my switch, which is something
00:42:13
Speaker
that sucks, but it's something that I've had to learn how to do. I am just very, very aware of people's social skills, what their comfortability is, how are they talking, and how do I reciprocate that to make them feel more comfortable with me? I am painfully aware of that.
00:42:35
Speaker
So especially in a place like anthropology, that is a storefront that has a more chill dynamic. I was very, very careful in to make sure that I was like also being kind of funny and smiley. And, you know, I didn't wear a blazer in my interview. I wore like a super trendy dress. And then, you know, long story short, I didn't get this job. And because a girlfriend of mine works there, you know, afterwards I kind of met up with her and
00:43:03
Speaker
I was like, do you have any inside scoop? Because I asked for feedback and of course I didn't get that from them. And they told her that they thought that I was too serious. And that just like fucked with me.
00:43:19
Speaker
It just really fucked with me. That was the most unhelpful thing ever. I wish I just didn't know and then I didn't ask because I know that that's bullshit. What really happened is even with me being minutely aware of their social practices, how to respond to that, dress in a way that is very trendy, less professional,
00:43:43
Speaker
you know, talk about my practices and doing commission work. What really happened was my diction and my language and talking about art concepts that I find interesting went over their head. They did not understand the concepts that I was talking about. And that was also kind of a hard pill for me to swallow because I think
00:44:08
Speaker
that I would have perhaps gotten that job and some other jobs, like this is not an isolating situation.
00:44:14
Speaker
if I were to have dumbed myself down. And that's an interesting part of the job market that I feel as though we don't talk about a lot. I feel like I've been caught in between a rock and a hard place when it comes to applying for jobs because I am either just under qualified or I'm too serious or I'm over qualified.
00:44:40
Speaker
And that's been a thing that has been explicitly communicated to me, is that you are overqualified for this position. I don't know what to do with that.
00:44:52
Speaker
Oh, sorry. No, go ahead. No, no, no. It's just like I'm just I'm at a loss for words. Yeah, that is something that I have also started to experience in a few interviews. It hasn't happened too much, thankfully, but there was a role that I had asked to to interview for. And I actually thought I would be a fantastic match for this position.
00:45:18
Speaker
And the, you know, the HR manager, the first round, they call me and we're talking on the phone. And he really, I don't use this term lightly, but he was gaslighting the hell out of this interview.
00:45:34
Speaker
And was, you know, we're talking through my experience. He asked me why I'm interested in this job. We have to go through the whole thing of why I'm switching realms. I am not switching skill sets. I am looking for a job in a different place with my applied skill set.
00:45:52
Speaker
And so I'm talking about that, talking about my experience in certain projects that would match this role well. He starts talking to me, you know, he asked me about my salary range. I offer him my salary range that has been comparable with every other institution that I'm applying for. Many institutions have not had a problem with my salary range that I'm asking for. And he says, well, you know,
00:46:18
Speaker
this position really requires this, this, and this. I'm like, you know, we just talked about that. We just talked about how my experience is comparable to those things. And he's like, so, you know, you're really looking at the very, very bottom of this salary range that we're offering, which is lower than the range that I proposed that's comparable with other institutions who are interviewing me.
00:46:44
Speaker
So because of my switching fields, people, and really it's kind of been men, and I'm not saying that, you know, the men interviewing me have a choice, I guess, in
00:46:59
Speaker
in what their company is offering in the salary range. I'm not trying to make that wide assumption, but it is notable that they're telling me because I am looking for a job in a different place that my salary is bumped lower significantly.
00:47:16
Speaker
significantly. I mean, it is, we're looking not higher than what I was making at the Trout Gallery. And given my years of grown experience, I should be moving upward in salary, not staying at the same type of level, but because I'm transferring fields, and that's what they kind of see it as.
00:47:39
Speaker
It's a complete departure. And I'm entering at a new level like intern level that, you know, I'm not worthy of this, this pay grade. So, you know, I do just feel like and in my situation too, it's just like truly
00:47:55
Speaker
The job interview game is like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. And when I got this note of being serious, like that really threw me off for my next interview. And I was, I remember I was applying for a museum position and I hung up the phone and just cried because I was like, they can't see me. They can't see my face. This is just a phone call. And I hate having interviews that are just a phone call. And I was being too
00:48:22
Speaker
too funny and you just totally get in such a head about it. I just think also this episode was not about giving helpful advice. This episode was about just relaying our experiences. Maybe there wasn't something that was super tangible or constructive that came out of this, but I hope that you guys are... It's just nice to be able to have a moment where you can be like, oh my God, I experienced that and you can just
00:48:51
Speaker
commiserate on your own end and not have to provide a solution. And so maybe when we come back, if we get some feedback from the art poptarts, maybe we will have some solutions and we can hear other stories. But
Sharing Experiences Without Solutions
00:49:05
Speaker
right now, we just needed to put the thoughts that were going on in our brains into a document and put that into a podcast.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, and even so, like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I hope that our discussion and maybe you might take it as kind of a rant. I hope that it at least encourages people to talk about that in between area, because the in between of quote unquote, switching fields, changing up your career,
00:49:43
Speaker
It's not okay, but it's something that I am trying to work through. And I think that a lot of other people must be going through the same thing because we're seeing it everywhere, right? Millennials, Gen Zers are quitting their jobs to work on a farm and we're doing this and you're quitting to move here and we're really taking stock of what we want out of life. And while all of that is true and great, and I hope it is working for the better, working in favor of people's livelihoods,
00:50:12
Speaker
This in-between spot sucks. That's what I needed to get out of sitting here today. Jenna, I don't want to end in Sad Girl Town. I would like to leave and go to Greece with you. Can you just tell us a little bit more about what's happening with you these next few weeks and then we'll give a programming update for our schedule?
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I leave tomorrow, but I'm actually flying into Philly. I'm going to see the fam for a little bit, and then I'm going to go to New York, and then I'm going to go to Greece. So it's a whole planes, trains, and automobile situation. But I'm going with cousin of APT, Juliana Poro.
00:51:00
Speaker
and aunt of APT, Rita Martucci. That'll be really fun and lovely and I'm super excited. Honestly, I just really like this trip was supposed to happen when I graduated. I'm honestly very glad that it got postponed because health-wise, I just wouldn't have been able to enjoy it. I don't think it would be great. I think also
00:51:24
Speaker
Just because for the sake of sharing more mental health updates, this trip is kind of a big deal for me just because it's the first time I'll be traveling abroad with a pre-existing condition. I'm a little bit nervous about it, but I also think it's going to be good and I'm not worried, worried about it. It's just a milestone for me.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'll say about that. When we get back, I have a great episode already worked out for you guys about some of the spots that I'll be hitting up in Athens and in Santorini and in Crete. I'm so jealous you're going to Crete. Please take all the pictures of the palace at Nasus. I'm so jealous that you're going to be in Crete. Yeah, and then also,
00:52:15
Speaker
I'm going to the off season, folks. It's going to be a little chilly, so this will be the historical educational trip that our parents thought we went on in college. You know what I mean? This is a trip that Rick Steves is going
Listener Engagement and Comfort Recommendations
00:52:30
Speaker
to give you. Hey, I watched the Rick Steves.
00:52:32
Speaker
Oh, I know you did. Because we watched Rick Steves before we went on. I fucking love Rick Steves. What a wholesome, beautiful human being. I just love him so much. I love his voice, everything about him. He brings me so much joy. Hi, I'm Rick Steves.
00:52:52
Speaker
If you guys are having a bad day after this, go put on some Rick Steves. It's on Hulu. I might do that. You shouldn't do it. That sounds nice. That sounds lovely. Gianna, quick question for you. Are you going to be able to share videos, Instagrams? Are you going to update your story for APT while you're on the trip because I'm just going to save for myself?
00:53:12
Speaker
I would appreciate it. Of course, of course. I will take some cute photos for you guys if you want to follow me on Instagram, but then I might post some cute and little historical
00:53:24
Speaker
updates for you. I do want to talk about when we get back in Santorini, very Pinterest-y photo that everybody takes with the three blue domes, which are actually facades of some churches. I'll be excited to talk about that social media moment and the history behind it, but I will take that picture and I will be like, stay tuned. Did you take it? I was going to ask you.
00:53:49
Speaker
Definitely. When we were there at the three blue domes, we saw a wedding take place and there was a couple on top of one of the blue domes and this bride in her gorgeous dress, which we may also be talking about whenever we come back as well. For programming updates, next week on March 8th,
00:54:14
Speaker
We are going to be off. We are counting it as spring break. So no episode next Tuesday, March 8th. Then on March 15th, Gianna will have just gotten back from her trip. So we are going to release an episode, but it is going to be a reissue of a previous episode, something to celebrate Women's History Month. Happy Women's History Month, everyone.
00:54:39
Speaker
So maybe you've heard that episode before, maybe you're a new listener and it'll be a nice opportunity for you to revisit some old content. So we will be back with a brand new episode on March 22nd when Gianna is back and we are going to talk about all things Greece trip.
00:54:56
Speaker
It will be a Rick Steves episode for the books. Stay tuned on APT. Gianna is going to, like she said, be posting a few updates from Greece, so we'll be able to see a little bit of her travels there.
00:55:10
Speaker
Thank you all so much for listening to this episode. I really appreciate it and I appreciate you, Gianna. Thank you for letting me work through some of my feelings live on air. It really means a lot to me. And if any of you are going through the same thing, please reach out. I would love to just sit down and connect with you. I would love to do interview prep with you. I would love to swap resumes with people, look at cover letters.
00:55:38
Speaker
That is something that the women last night who I met with offered, you know, without a doubt, just doing these incredible kind things. And I want to reciprocate that. I know that is what APT is built off of supporting each other, supporting people who are in a similar place.
00:55:58
Speaker
And so just let me know if you want to talk, if you have thoughts, if you have thoughts about this episode, let us know. Email us at artpoptalk at gmail.com, dms on social media at artpoptalk. And with that, Gianna, have an amazing vacation. It is so deserved. You have worked so hard and I'm so excited to hear all about your trip.
00:56:23
Speaker
No episode next week, a reissue on the 15th. And we will be back on Tuesday, March 22nd. Bye everyone. Bye everyone. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci Fink. And me, Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrienne Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.