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Veganuary 2026: Anthony's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
92 Plays12 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from ever-present Falafeller, Anthony!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 90 directly https://zencastr.com/z/pejfLMds
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Veganuary 2026
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions. And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those so it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors we really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026
00:00:50
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the Going
Anthony's Early Influences Toward Veganism
00:00:52
Speaker
Vegan show. Six months ago we spoke to 10 vegans about their experiences of going vegan but there was one person that we didn't get around to chatting to.
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm Paul and joining me for this episode is Anthony but that's enough of the falafel, it's time for Going Vegan. So Anthony, we've known each other for a fairly long time, but it's probably fair to say I probably don't know a lot about how you went vegan, so this will be very interesting for me. So perhaps you can start off with a a sort of fundamental question then. So what was the what were the first signs that veganism might be something that would potentially be part of your life? it depends how far back you want to go and sort of how, uh, infinitesimally small kind of that that those first seeds might be. Um, I mean, when, when I was growing up, my mum wasn't very keen on cooking meat. So we would have, uh, things like corn, um, and stuff like that, just, just as part of our diet. I mean, none of us were sort of specifically, um, or dogmatically avoiding and any foodstuffs, but I think because of, of,
00:01:54
Speaker
her preference to not cook much meat um or any meat indeed, and that would be part of our diet. So kind of having alternatives to meat was was quite normal. and that's it That said, we did still consume animal products. When I was what would it be, eight or nine years old? That's when theyre the BSE scare happened. So yeah from from that period, we we stopped having beef. I still had fruit pastels, which I remember some people pointing out to me was, well, you know, You could still get BSE from a fruit pastel. But anyway, so in that sense, like in my childhood, like avoiding some animal products wasn't completely foreign, but that was as far as it went. I seem to remember this the sort of vanity in me, and it is going to come out, I think, in this conversation but um I seem to remember in sixth form when I was sort 17 or 18 thinking it might make me seem like I'm a more interesting person if I said I was vegetarian so I think I might have said that to one or two friends but i don't actually remember following through with it at all um I just thought that that might make me a bit quirky and interesting that's interesting isn't it because I suppose some people uh might think that being a veggie vegan might be
00:03:18
Speaker
Difficult. So yeah, I think I probably thought slightly different to that. But that's an interesting interesting interesting way to think of it. Yeah, I don't know where it came from, that that thought. I think just some sort of desperate attempt to have some sort of personality perhaps. But um when that the first sort of like conscious um choice to to really avoid animal products and came when I went to university.
University Reflections and Choices
00:03:39
Speaker
It all started with a lie, Paul. I i was in catered halls at university, so ah meals were cooked for me in in that first year. And I remember going down on one of the first first few days um and seeing these horrible mass-produced greasy sausages that looked absolutely disgusting. um And then next to them,
00:04:02
Speaker
i'm on a separate tray was this beautiful um array of stuffed peppers with like couscous and bits of feta cheese and herbs and things like that. They like they look like a piece of art. And i just said, oh, can I have but you know one of one of the stuffed peppers? And they said, oh, they're for the vegetarians. like Are you vegetarian? we We can't give you that unless you're vegetarian. Otherwise, the vegetarians don't have enough food. you know they They all get used up before the veggies have come down for dinner. um And I just on the spot just lied and just said, Oh, I am. I'm vegetarian.
00:04:35
Speaker
um vegetarian. and you know I think I was feeling homesick, didn't want to have like a horrible greasy sausage. So i I got that and obviously I then needed to keep that up, which which wasn't a problem because i was I was surrounded by people I didn't know. the vegetarian options looked really delicious and and were really delicious. um and And so it was yeah it was just a straightforward thing to do. And yeah, the food was nice. I mean, sometimes hindsight gives us ah a sort of rose-tinted narrative. to these things. But i I do remember a few people asking me, oh, so so why are you vegetarian then, Anthony? So that obviously I kind of needed to come up with a ah reason as to why I was eating this way. And I just sort of said, oh, I just think it's wrong to to kill animals. ah to to eat food when we don't need to. And the the more I said it, the more I started to think, actually, that's, that's, that might be a point. Well, yeah, yeah, genuinely. So over that first year of university, it sort of became more and more part of my identity and there became more and more opportunities. um I guess it was, you know, part of
00:05:43
Speaker
entering into adult life, if if you like, and having more autonomy over your choices, the more I liked... i think I, ah if I'm being completely honest, I liked the identity of being somebody that makes conscious choices. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but That was more important to me than any injustice or anything like that, um if I'm being completely transparent. And I think it's one of those where...
00:06:10
Speaker
you're doing the right thing. So that's like a nice bonus. But I liked the fact that kind of, I was, you know, making a, being seen to make a stand, being seen to to make conscious choices. And I'd say probably in terms of firmly being vegetarian,
00:06:27
Speaker
that that process took about a year. So, yeah, I think that was the the kind of first seeds of, like, being able to make a choice that... in this that That first ah choice wasn't a compromise. it was I was very definitely choosing the better food option in saying I was vegetarian. But, but you know, so socially it can be difficult, can't it, to to label yourself as different and and things like that. um So that was the first kind of...
00:06:57
Speaker
test that that might be an okay thing to do and you know with with a few exceptions where you know someone might have cooked me something or whatever I broadly stuck to it and um and it was okay so that those were the first seeds but but veganism came came a bit later Yeah, yeah. So you were it was kind of almost accidental vegetarian and he kind of kind of stuck with it then by the sounds of things, which is which is yeah fine, isn't it? But it's kind of kind of quite a interesting way. And I suppose the main question here is, did you ever meet the yeah the the the the person who you starved? uh no no well i i tried i haven't thought of that paul um i mean i'm going to give myself the benefit of the doubt and say like if if i was in that situation now like i'd you know if the last vegan option goes like i won't starve i'd just have you know a bland chips and salad dinner but No, I like to think that they were, you know, factoring in to a broad proportion of of of people that might be vegetarian. But no, I hadn't thought of that. yeah
00:08:05
Speaker
I'm sure they had a quick text, Joe. I'm sure they would. It would be fine. It be fine. um So, yes, you talked about that of first step towards vegetarianism. And I think a lot of us, including me, have kind of the journey has been that gradual one from ah vegetarianism to veganism.
00:08:20
Speaker
um But what about, what was the catalyst that led you to first trying to be
Vegan Conversations at Lush
00:08:25
Speaker
vegan? um i I remember this was probably my second or third year of university. i worked I worked at a Lush cosmetic shop during university. So there was lots of, um i don't know, animal rights dialogue going on. Lush is still not 100% vegan, but you know, a lot of its products are and it it makes a big deal over No animal testing and and stuff like that. um And I remember it at one point thinking it would be good and doable to to try and be vegan with regards to the cosmetics that I used, which seems like a really odd, silly step. But I remember I worked with a vegan at Lush and this was back in like 2007 so quite quite rare um and I said to her oh I've i've decided I'm going to be vegan with regards to my um cosmetics but I'm not going do with my food because that's unhealthy um ah based on something that a food tech teacher had told me when I was ah like in year six when I was 11 years old um
00:09:24
Speaker
And, you know, she came back at me and was like, that's actually a load of rubbish. um And I thought no more of it. And I think sort of as I left university, my my vegetarianism became more and more strict. So it would it would include clothing. um I started to look into certain cheeses um weren't vegetarian, like if they they were using rennet, like a cow's stomach lining, I believe it is. um So I'd look into more things like that. But but it it didn't that there was no kind of progress towards veganism or even thought of it at all, actually, until one day my my partner at the time said, oh, there's um there's a vegan festival in in Wolverhampton. it was It was just a one-day thing. i don't know if you ever went to it, Paul. it Yeah, it was one of my is one of my early days. of going In fact, I think it was the first vegan fair went to, Wolverhampton, because it was a very...
00:10:18
Speaker
Certainly was one of the big ones, wasn't it, I think, back in the day? It absolutely was. It was brilliant, like grassroots, no no nothing commercial about it, and really accessible. And that was part of the the reason, actually, we we chose to go, because the sort of little flyer or ad and that my partner had seen said um It was one pound entry and you got a free goodie bag. So we were like, well, this is this is a great day out. you know I'm giving such a great impression of myself here. um but But we went along and we we were both vegetarian at the time, I should say. um My partner at the time um wasn't when we met, but and she'd started to eat vegetarian just to eat the same as me. And and It's sort of gone from there. um And we went along and um I remember watching a video in one of the, I don't know if you ever went to one of the the talks, Paul, at the at the Civic Hall in Wolverhampton. There's this is really narrow room.
00:11:15
Speaker
like Yeah. You could fit like four chairs in a row, but it went back about 50 seats. Yeah, i remember I remember the room. Yeah, I do remember. Yeah, yeah. So ah um we watched this sort of introduction to veganism video that was one of the talks that was on offer. There was loads of stalls and stuff being sold, but um we we went to this um this video and and it was presented by the late Benjamin Zephaniah. And it was it was just basically showing why actually just being vegetarian doesn't prevent you being involved in the death of of innocent sentient beings. you know So we'd learn of, for some reason, the the dairy industry, that the atrocities of that didn't really stick with me till
00:11:57
Speaker
at least being vegan for two or three years. um But it was the male chicks that ah that are ground up or killed in other ways, you know, just after 24 hours, more or less, just for the for the crime of being a boy, um they don't get to live. And kind of came out of that. And we we both said, well, let's let's give this a go because I think we both still had sort of um dietary reservations, if you like, ah sort of concerned that it it might not
Eye-opening Vegan Festival Experience
00:12:26
Speaker
be healthy. to be vegan. um And I'd say the people around us at the vegan festival, um some of which look very healthy and some of which didn't, to be honest. So I think there was there was a little element of like,
00:12:39
Speaker
ah from an ideological point of view, we'd like to give this a go, but you know we're not committing to it wholesale. And that was that was um November 2010.
00:12:50
Speaker
And I've been giving it a go since. Indeed, she has been giving it a go since. And we've we we've both both been been vegan ever since. so that's That's great. I mean, what a what a person to listen to, to start with. Obviously, sadly, we've passed away recently. But I guess from what I'm hearing, it's kind of the...
00:13:06
Speaker
the the the moral argument was was kind of pretty established at that point, but it was just the kind of reservation about through um through through maybe an awareness about how it might impact health, I guess. So is that yeah a fair summary? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and that, That remained, i would say, for the first six months of of being vegan, actually, of of trying it. um We both did lose a bit of weight and then rapidly put it back on once you find the sort of cheat vegan food. I mean, back in those days, there there wasn't the huge array of...
00:13:42
Speaker
you know, vegan products that there are now in in terms of, you know, intentionally designed things, obviously fruit and vegetables and pulses and things still existed, but you couldn't get vegan dairy milk or, or vegan junk food from the freezer or whatever. Um, but as soon as you find out that, oh, bourbon biscuits are actually secretly vegan, then yeah, the weight went straight back on again. And, um,
00:14:04
Speaker
yeah so once we found that neither of us were wasting away um those concerns went but but they were there for the first three to six months of being vegan i would i would say yeah and did i mean i just going along with my own thoughts i think i think we might have even talked about this before in the past but yeah there were certainly concerns from outside parties as well about the health you know kind of certainly i remember my my mother being concerned really like oh i've it's going to be bad for you that kind of thing it's kind of so you had those well i had those outside influences as well that were maybe questioning my own um concerns don't know if you did you have that as well or was it i'm not sure i i did actually from ah from a nutrition point of view i i do remember somebody actually i was um i've worked on summer camps since i was 17 years old and shortly after going vegan like i say this was when people really hadn't heard of it in in uh was probably early 2011, this one. But I remember the caterer for this summer camp
Social Challenges of Being Vegan
00:15:00
Speaker
that I was working on being really worried about me. And like every meal was just full of nuts. She was just putting cashew nuts in everything because she thought I wasn't going to get any protein. But but other than that, I think ah the main objections, and and there were objections, were ideological and that's stupid. And I remember, you know, so somebody laughing at me again on on a summer camp actually, somebody laughing at me when I was trying to give my reason for why I didn't eat honey. And I i i was kind of like, well, we've not really asked permission from the bees, have we? Like, we've we've not got their consent. We're just taking it. And they were just, I and i mean, i think a lot of vegans are the same. what
00:15:42
Speaker
when we When we're new to the lifestyle, we're not necessarily the most verbose and and brilliant at explaining these things. And there are ah certain turns of phrases that will not necessarily do the argument justice. um And so I probably did say something like,
00:15:59
Speaker
ah well, we've not asked the bees permission and that they just found this ridiculously funny. um So it was more those objections, I think. Yeah, and yeah, I think it's a very good observation. of the ex you you can't You can't be expert from day one and people will question you from day one and it takes time to build up your, well, even your own kind of specific nuances of the arguments that you favour as well as building up that kind of repository of information. So yeah, yeah. So we talked about this sort of i say the sort health concerns. Is there any other sort of trepidation worries in launching into veganism other than that?
00:16:32
Speaker
I don't think so. i think it it helped that there were two of us in the in the household um who were who were doing it together at the same time. um So that was that was helpful. That said, I mean, we didn't know another vegan.
00:16:47
Speaker
It was probably another year till we met another vegan. And then probably another three years until we met a second vegan. So that helped. I think I i really remember a concern and it was it was more my partner's concern. I would say that that that we would just waste away, that we would just like lose weight and then continue losing weight and and until there was nothing left of us. But other than that, no. And I think that's.
00:17:12
Speaker
That's partly because veganism has really helped me stand in my own boots and and be okay with who I am and and kind of stand up for myself and and and and things like that. But before then, i'd i'd already been a male working with children. Like my degree was education studies. Like I was the only boy out of 50 other students on the course. Same with working at Lush.
00:17:39
Speaker
So like I've been used to being slightly different to those around me. So I think the social side, don't get me wrong. I hate, I hate the social awkwardness from veganism. Like I really do. And, and I've got better at dealing with it, but I still, if there's a way of me avoiding conflict, I mean, you know, I i choose to do my activism through a podcast where people aren't going to talk back to me. um So like, I really don't like the social awkwardness side of it. So, I'm i'm okay with being different. And i think I was kind of well prepared for that going into being vegan. I think that would have been my only other kind of concern if if nothing else in my life had kind of had led me to be a bit different to those around me.
00:18:25
Speaker
prior to that, I think that would have been something I'd be really worried about. But I think because I i had been and and because um my my partner at the time was doing it with me, then i think that kind of stopped any of those problems being too big. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, that sounds ah interesting. I say, having that person around to support and and kind of share that with is, is like I imagine, was was really useful. um So just going back very very slightly then. So in terms of the first few weeks of being vegan, did you, do you ever recall anything from from that, whether it was kind of like other challenges, funny stories, et cetera, or kind of, you know, yeah, lack of awareness and kind of trying to navigate your way through the whole situation?
Surprises and Adaptation in Early Veganism
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. i i remember coming out of that video presentation with ah the Benjamin Zephaniah film, um going downstairs to a s stall that was giving out free samples of the best vegan cheese at the time and nearly changing my mind on the spot. It was the absolute worst thing that that could have followed that really compelling video. And that moral argument was, oh, my God. I mean, as a vegetarian, I ate quite a lot of cheese, but but like I was still fine with with ah with ditching it and it. And in fact, you know, we did eat the the animal products that were still in our house. You know, there was still half a block of cheese that I had in sandwiches for the next few days. I also remember, you'll know the Holland and Barrett that I'm talking about, Paul, at the top of Meal Cheapen Street, which...
00:20:01
Speaker
several several years later i I opened a vegan cafe at the bottom of that street but I remember going into that Holland and Barrett a couple of days after being at that vegan festival deciding to to try being vegan and thinking right I definitely saw vegan chocolate ah at that vegan festival didn't think to buy any let's get some in the house now that that'll be good that'll be reassuring and i I didn't read the labels carefully enough or I didn't appreciate what the different substitutes were. So I got a carob bar.
00:20:32
Speaker
know if you've ever had carob, Paul. yeah yeah And I genuinely nearly cried um standing in Mealcheap and Street. I just, you know, took off a ah ah row of chocolate. put it in my mouth and ate it. it i'm I'm really sorry, fans of carob. I found it to be absolutely disgusting. I've avoided it like the plague ever since. And I just thought, oh my God, like, is this what my life has become? This is now the closest thing to chocolate I will ever have ever again. So there was definitely some some frantic recipe searching. And yeah, I remember making lots of like little energy balls with
00:21:14
Speaker
cocoa powder are in and and and stuff like that so just to kind of give some reassurance that there would be some nice sweet chocolate tasting thing i mean i'm sure if i'd have picked up the bar next to the carob um plamil used to do loads yeah yeah they were only weren't they yet And I think I went for the Plamel, but I went for the Carib one instead of their sort of milk chocolate old alternative. But anyway, so that kind of reassurance needed to happen. But i I think, I mean, I've kind of always been like since since um since my second year of university where I had to cook for myself, I've always felt comfortable so long as I've got, you know, seven meals in a week. that can get me by. I'm not really fussed by what they are or or how much variety there is. So that side of things was always okay. I've mentioned the kind of concern that that myself and my partner at the time would would waste away. But other than that, it was it was really the the social encounters that were that were tricky, actually. And I don't think I've ever worked in a
00:22:21
Speaker
particularly hostile environment or had really toxic friendships or or horrible ah family members or whatever. But nonetheless, you know when you're vegan, living in a non-vegan world, um particularly in late 2010, early 2011, like there were lots of questions to field and and lots of explaining as well i mean i don't you remember that when you went vegan paul i don't think that's a thing that that vegans these days or new vegans anyway have to go through because i think that there might be misconceptions of what veganism is you're not having to explain it and i think though it's good to be able to educate people, that's a lovely opportunity. There's part of me that kind of feels like you' you're having to justify yourself. Whereas like for me, I just like to be able to say, I'm vegan, deal with it. Look it up if you want.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like, can we all get get back to our lives? Which I know is not great for animal advocacy, but sometimes you just want to be like, look, I'm vegan. Like that's just, just deal with it. There we go. Can we crack on with the meal and have a chat? yeah yeah Yeah. No, I totally, yeah, I totally had that. And it's, I don't know, sit down with a new group of people to eat and then um ah you i would personally as you do probably just would try and probably avoid saying i'm vegan because sometimes you're just knackered and tired and like i don't really want to have the conversation now and then it starts and you go don't know what questions are coming up next we're gonna have to talk about this and it's it's like kind of like like say it's not a cop out as sometimes it's something i can't always be on top form to
00:23:50
Speaker
make the best arguments or say the best things, you know, and you and you want, you want to do it justice, don't you really? When you you kind of warmed up. i really I think it's, I think it's about being human and like people that have met me will know that I'm a very proud vegan. Like I use the word um quite a lot. My, my wardrobe it consists entirely of of t-shirts that point to the fact that I'm vegan, that I'm, you know, pro animal rights, that I avoid animal products. And, but, but that kind of thing is like, that's of my choosing. That's the time, the manner, the tone of my choosing. And um don't get me wrong. Like ah ah I'll do my best if it's put upon me at a time that's not of my choosing or whatever. um
00:24:30
Speaker
and I'll do my best, but like, yeah, as as human beings, it, it's exhausting if if you're constantly having questions ah about that and, and to justify yourself. Yeah. Yeah. To kind of feel like you just have to justify your And you know, it's being vegan is, is about animals. And like, we we do have to remember that and we do have to examine our privilege. if If the hardest thing that happens to us in a day is that someone is bringing up the fact that we're vegan um and we're having a conversation about it at a time that's not of our choosing.
00:24:59
Speaker
That's probably quite a good day really, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but still, it can be
Discovering Accidental Vegan Foods
00:25:05
Speaker
draining. So, um yeah, i'd I'd say they were that and chocolate being naff and cheese being absolutely inedible in in those early days. that They were the main challenges. Okay. So, yeah, so there did anything else surprise you about going vegan? I mean, definitely. And I i like to think that I can still be surprised in in a in a positive way and but maybe maybe not so positive a way. But I would say throughout the the time that I've been vegan, it's it's coming up on 14 years now, there's been lots of surprises, um almost universally beyond.
00:25:42
Speaker
positive actually. i think I think the only negative, which is one that we all kind of have to, is across we all have to bear, is is the fact that loved ones, family, friends, people we respect, upon hearing the same information that we have heard that's compelled us to to try to be vegan and to live that lifestyle, doesn't always compel others, no matter how much we love them and how much we respect them. So I think that's been the only sort of negative surprise. um I'm trying to think of some sort of early surprises. I suppose that the amount of foods that are accidentally vegan was was an immediate positive surprise and and yeah reassuring that I didn't continually lose weight and I could to top up my yeah top up my calories with bourbon biscuits whenever was. And some brands of apple pie, but not not all, was the case in late 2010. I seem to remember. I've lost that knowledge now, but I had a catalogue-style memory of which brands of of apple pie were were fine and which weren't for some reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've lost that now. Apple pie is is not on my menu so frequently. So yeah, that that was a surprise.
00:26:56
Speaker
I can't think of anything else like ah within those first six months of being vegan that that that surprised me. um But since then, there have have been overwhelmingly positive surprises. Just just to the community and the the range of people um that that you can meet, um connect with, learn from. that That's fantastic. I mean, i I know this to be the case for... for countless vegans but the that the kind of social circles and individuals that you um come across that perhaps you would not if you weren't vegan it is wonderful like what an absolute bonus and and sometimes that's that needs sort of a proactive stance from yourself in in terms of i don't know going on to facebook groups or going to to meetups of of activism or you know
00:27:48
Speaker
vegan picnics or or whatever it is. Sometimes it's a proactive thing. And other times it's just like, oh, oh, you're vegan. You know, if you're at a work buffet or something um or a training course or something um and you find out someone else is vegan, you you have an immediate way of connecting with somebody that you perhaps otherwise wouldn't have done. And then you find out, like, as is the case in 99% of the time, if there's someone else who's choosing to avoid um animal exploitation um in the early 21st century, they're probably a decent person as well. And you find that there's loads more things that connect you and you're really grateful for for having got to know them better. So I think that side of things is is a fantastic bonus. Do you still get the thing where you meet someone vegan unexpectedly and want to give them a hug and go, yes.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm i'm struggling to think of the last time it happened, but it it it definitely happened. Like every year it will happen several times without intention. And and like as as listeners might know, like i've I've had periods in my life where I've ran of a vegan business and and known hundreds of and hundreds of vegans at any one time. And and that's a brilliant bonus too. But actually,
00:29:01
Speaker
You don't need to do that to come across brilliant, like-minded people as a vegan. And I will say as well, I mean, ah people who aren't yet vegan ah get a lot of flack, sometimes justifiably, sometimes unjustifiably. You know, we very few of us were born vegan. But actually, a lot of the people who aren't yet vegan that I've come across and I've met and and had conversations with,
00:29:29
Speaker
that has been a result of me being vegan. That's a really nice thing too. So we've we've spoken earlier on in this conversation about potentially undesirable conversations that come up as a result of you saying you're vegan.
00:29:42
Speaker
I'd say I've had at least as many, if not more positive conversations with people when that the subject of veganism comes up and and got to know really lovely people ah as a result too. and And a few of them have gone vegan, which is even better, isn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And so in your journey of becoming vegan and, and ah you know,
00:30:04
Speaker
going through the years.
Reflections on 14 Years of Veganism
00:30:05
Speaker
Did you stick to 100% or did you have some wobbles like, you know, and some of us have done, whether they're accidental or otherwise? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. um i I think when people say, oh I'm 95% vegan or I'm 99% vegan, a lot of us will scoff at that. I have i have tried to be vegan upwards of 99% of the time. There have been times in the last 14 years where I've intentionally chosen to not tell somebody that the thing that they have lovingly cooked me does actually contain ah Worcestershire sauce and and therefore has anchovies in it or whatever. And i'm I would say in pretty much every case, I would stick by that decision because I don't i don't think I'd go as far as saying...
00:30:54
Speaker
if I had conflict with that dear friend or that elderly relative or whatever, that would then be the end of my veganism. It would, you know, the wheels would fall off and I'd go back to chomping steak. That's not the case at all. But I know that I've been very much vegan for 14 years and and will continue to be for the rest of my life. i'm I'm certain. I'm as certain of that as I can be certain of anything else in this world.
00:31:19
Speaker
That works for me. that's That's something that, I mean, gosh, in the last five years, how many occasions have there been where that's been the case? I think of maybe one or or two occasions where where i've I've knowingly eating something that that somebody's cooked me and I've just thought, oh, do you know what? Right now is is not the right time. It's not the, it's gonna cause a lot of lot of issues to bring it up. So that has been pretty much the only exceptions. The the main one that, um the main exception for the first five or six years that I called myself vegan, my mum continues to lovingly knit socks for me. She knits jumpers. She's incredibly talented. at knitting and for the first five or six years of me being vegan I didn't want to say to her please stop doing this um because I don't want to be wearing wool and and part of that was probably the fact that in my mind wool was at the less exploitative end of the continuum I don't necessarily believe that now but
00:32:22
Speaker
It felt easier to rationalise than, you know, ah ah a bolt gun going through ah a cow's head or whatever. And obviously these industries are all intertwined. You know, there's no such thing as a by-product. But I'm happy to say we've we've now reached a situation where through a series of conversations that have been very amicable, um she now has... ah alternatives to sheep's wool um that are plant-based um and do not involve animals and so I still get to have lovely socks she gets to knit them for me and and in fact her I i don't really want to speak for her but her own journey has has led her to to trying being vegan and she is now as a as plant-based and as vegan as as as she's able to be which is uh yeah up upwards of 90 95 so so that's great too excellent excellent so i mean is there anything that you think you know reflecting back on the years anything you wish you'd done differently at all i mean that that's one where i i sort of wish i'd i'd had the courage to have a conversation sooner with with my mum and and i i think and any instance where you're knowingly or unknowingly
00:33:31
Speaker
using an animal product, consuming an animal product, if it's possible to rewind and and just to to say to somebody before arriving, you know, I'm vegan or, you know, did if you need any help with making dinner or anything like that. And then that, phrase I mean, my nan, bless her, what a lovely, impressive woman she is. She's 95, still going strong. I had a jacket potato with beans at her house once because she knew I was vegan. So started eating was like, these beans taste a bit funny, Nan. Like what's going on there? And she's like, oh, don't worry. i I took the pork sausages out.
00:34:07
Speaker
um So it's one of those cans of like sausages and beans. So I think there are certain instances where, even with the best will in the world. Like who's going to preempt that unless I say to my nan, no, I'm cooking every single time. I won't allow you to cook for me. But there there have been instances where, ah yeah, a bit of um a bit of hindsight means that things could have been done a different way. I think vegan activism is is a brilliant thing and it's not something that I started for for the first few years of of being vegan. I think that's quite typical but gosh I didn't regret it once I started doing it so so doing that for longer would have been great. Obviously going vegan sooner would have been great. um It's always the classic isn't it I think you know the kind of I have done it sooner yeah. I would have loved to have been able to do it sooner. I would be interested to know how easy it would be for an 18 year old boy going to university, living by himself in 2005 in Exeter, living vegan. I'm sure it'd be possible. I mean, I worked with someone who was the same age as me and she managed it. So yeah, I'm not making excuses myself. I would, I really would have loved to have been vegan as as soon as I was able to to be so. and And I'm, I'm still glad it was as early as it was. But other than that, no, I mean, ah like, as as you know, Paul, and as I've alluded to, like, I started a vegan business, which was was brilliant for the for the five years that I was able to do that. I kind of wish I did that sooner too, but ah big because of the the positive impact it had, and it was exhausting, but it was enjoyable at the time. Again, like, the context of it, I mean, you know, you live in Worcester so you can uh you can give me your opinion but like I don't know whether such a ah cafe would have survived um if it had been started five years prior maybe it would with good business sense it might have done who who knows yeah I think it's uh yeah I think because there were a couple of uh was it Baja that's did Baja start before your one and Baja started about a year after us oh it was right yeah because I mean that I mean that kind of suggested to me that maybe the market wasn't there in Worcester for more than you know more than one um now we've got now we've got a few places that are entirely vegan or big big on being vegan which is which is good and it feels like that's feels relatively stable but i mean you'll know this more than me i think the restaurant industry such a nightmare to join and keep things operating in these days you're seeing
00:36:43
Speaker
all sorts of restaurants closing in regularly at the moment through the cost of urban food and electric, but it's, it's, yeah, I mean, I would have loved to have had a business similar to myself actually and tried to invest in one early days, but, um,
00:36:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard. okay Yeah, yeah. i I don't think I have any significant regrets. I think just the the positive benefits that I've derived from from being vegan and and activism that I've engaged with whilst being vegan. Like the the sooner I could have done those, that the the better. But i'm I'm still really grateful that I've i've taken them on and and started that journey when I happened. Yeah. So, what I mean, what do you think your journey, vegan journey would have looked like if it had started to later on? So so if it started now, what do you think that would have panned out? Gosh, well, I don't think I don't think I would have been nearly in tears stood outside Holland and Barrett having eaten carob. I don't I don't don't even know whether Plamil still do that that product anymore.
00:37:45
Speaker
it's It's really interesting. We we we started this conversation ah touching on my my vanity and thinking that being vegetarian would make me more interesting. It's a very interesting thought experiment of, I don't know why i wouldn't have been vegan before now in this scenario of like if my journey had started now. And I i think like id identity is like a really important part of of, I know it's important for everybody, but I'm i'm very introspective with regards to my own identity. identity, it's quite pathetic, really. But like in terms of like I really like that I've come to veganism like ahead of the curve. And in fact, anyone coming to veganism now is still ahead of the curve, regrettably. But I um i think I'd miss feeling as special as I felt, if I'm being completely honest, in in terms of the food and stuff like that was...
00:38:33
Speaker
that was never a massive problem. Maybe I wouldn't be as good at cooking like as i and that because you you had to be. And my first wife, who I've i've mentioned a few times, like she she did most of the cooking. She's skilled up on most of the of the cooking from scratch, which which we had to. But I i certainly learned a lot of skills through necessity of there not being pre-made vegan things. But I like like to think i'd I'd still want to do a lot of lot of cooking. Maybe it'd be, maybe it'd be a hardcore, uh, raw fruitarian or something like that. Just to be different. I think, I think I'm not sure is the kind of cop-out answer, but what I can say is I'm really grateful that I went vegan. when i did i've I've mentioned some silly vain reasons of like, oh, I like to be special. I like to be ahead of the curve. But actually, you know what? There's a lot to be said for um really testing your ethics, really testing your commitment and how important something is to you from an ideological point of view. Like there was no, I could have flaked and easily, you know, flip flopped and gone, gone back to being vegetarian or whatever, because it was too hard. So it really, really tested that commitment and resolve. And I'm really grateful for that. And I do think that is um something that perhaps people going vegan now, they, they, they,
00:39:54
Speaker
because it is a bit easier, it perhaps doesn't really test that commitment and resolve. And and'm I'm not saying people weak-willed or anything like that. that's That's not the message I'm giving, I guess.
00:40:05
Speaker
like i I don't know if you remember, Paul, like going to vegan festivals in the early days and things like that. It it felt almost quite punk and like off-grid community sort of thing. like You really had to want it, and that felt really special. That really deepened that...
00:40:21
Speaker
that identity and community and and sense of purpose, I think as well. You know, i don't think you could really be a casual vegan in 2011. Like you had to be, you know, um a card carrying member of the vegan society and wearing your badge all day long and and and stuff like that. So I'm really grateful that I got to be part of that. And I think if I come to veganism now, I don't know how much I would have felt that. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I think I i can, I think I'd agree with that myself.
00:40:51
Speaker
um Okay, so ah last question then before we yeah wrap up. So what advice would you give others considering the vegan lifestyle?
Encouragement for Others to Try Veganism
00:41:00
Speaker
I'm going to quote something I saw on Lewis Hamilton's ah Instagram the other day, which was something, or maybe it was plant-based news reposting him, but it's something along the lines of um everyone that he knows who is vegan says that it's like the best decision that they've ever made. And I don't have a need to rank the decisions that I've made in my life from from best to worst. I can I can definitely tell you some at the bottom. but um in In terms of the ones at the top, I don't feel a need to say veganism was the best. veganism was the third best or whatever.
00:41:37
Speaker
The fact is it's up there and I don't know anybody who has gone vegan who would say otherwise. Like people almost universally say it is is the best if not one of the best decisions that they've made. Now, obviously, that's a bit of a self-selecting sample, because if you ask somebody who's not vegan anymore, they're not going to say it's the best decision they ever made. But I think there's a lot to be said for trying something. And I think in life, we're where a lot of us are very worried about trying something and it not sticking, trying something and failing at it, wasting our time trying something or whatever. Do know what mean? Like it it's some at some point, we're all going end up in a box in the ground or burnt to ashes. Is it really going to hurt that much to just try something? And i'm not I'm not just talking about veganism there and anything. Like so long as there aren't repercussions that are permanent from your trying something, you know, I wouldn't advocate trying Russian roulette. There's quite serious consequences if you don't like it. But actually, like trying veganism for a week, for a month, for a day, I really don't see what harm it's it's going to cause. And I know lot of people who through some some influence of myself, I won't say it was a majority influence, but through some influence, have gone vegan and have stuck with it. And I know a few people who've who've gone vegan and then they've maybe backtracked a little bit, but you know what, they're still eating a lot more plants and a lot fewer animals than than they were in the first place. And it's always come from just trying it. And i think there are a better worded resources than than I'm going to give now um and better scientific information and nutrition guidance than than I have off the top of my head. So the resources are out there. We live in this wonderful information age that has its downsides, but you know what, there's a huge amount of of information at your fingertips that you can find. And and people are part of that resource too. And I think something we try to try to do on and Enough of the Falafel and and specifically this Going Vegan series shows that actually there's there's loads of different ways that you can successfully live a life that's avoiding exploiting animals um for the sake of your own life. and There's lots of different ways to do that. And I want people to be able to to do that 100% and as close to it as possible and to be proud that they're doing so and identify as vegan because I think that's a really important part of activism too. But you know however people do people do it, the kind of bottom line is, i was I was thinking about this the other day in terms of like,
00:44:29
Speaker
People saying that veganism doesn't make a difference. So it's, you know, animals are still going to be slaughtered just because I choose not to um eat steak tonight. That's not actually saved a cow. There are these websites where you can sort of calculate how many animals you've saved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, that that it's a nice idea, but it's not technically true, is it?
00:44:49
Speaker
However, what you can definitely say is if you definitely haven't eaten an animal product, you definitely haven't sent a message to a supermarket that you want them to have a ah trade relationship with a farm that involves an animal being exploited. You've definitely not done that. So whilst we can say it's, you know, you're not directly affecting things, there's ah there's a negative thing that you're definitely not doing. And that's an incredibly powerful thing. So To summarise that slight tangential waffle there, I would say anyone considering it, please just try it.
00:45:27
Speaker
Just try it. Like, I really don't think anything bad is going to come from trying it. And if you have an open mind, I think there's all sorts of positives that that can come from it. So are give it a go, eh?
00:45:40
Speaker
That's a great great message, yeah. like Life is short and shorter for the animals if we don't help them, I think. that's yeah Absolutely.
00:45:51
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com.
00:46:06
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:46:32
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course,
00:46:53
Speaker
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00:47:08
Speaker
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