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248- Post Milk Generation? Too confusing. Ban it.
117 Plays13 days ago
The phrase 'Post Milk Generation' is such a confusing one, isn't it? What could it possibly mean? No wonder the UK Supreme Court has banned its use on oat milk- sorry, oat drink- cartons this week. Thank goodness: I nearly bought that carton of 'Oatly' thinking it was made of...cow secretions?!
As well as looking at the latest in plant-based semantics,Julie, Paul & Ant dissect eight other bits of news from the last week in the vegan & animal rights space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
To help us keep improving the show, you can head over to https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL and make a small financial contribution towards our running costs. Only if you want to and can afford it of course ;)
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This week's stories:
https://www.travelnews.ch/english-corner/31296-animal-rights-activists-criticize-tui-over-dolphin-attractions.html
https://themedialine.org/mideast-daily-news/massive-israeli-study-finds-vegan-babies-grow-just-fine-by-age-2/
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25846020.edinburgh-named-one-uks-best-cities-vegan-food/
https://www.gbnews.com/news/lincolnshire-news-theatre-showing-peppa-pig-stops-serving-bacon
https://www.marinelink.com/news/animal-welfare-groups-mark-start-calf-535562
https://news.fundsforngos.org/2026/02/11/nsw-government-increases-funding-to-12-8m-for-animal-welfare-enforcement/
https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2026/02/11/putting-animals-back-into-the-animal-welfare-act/
https://www.gbnews.com/news/uk/manchester-university-sued-because-pension-not-vegan
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/in oatly-supreme-court-milk-ruling/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Paul, Julie & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Vegan News Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone. Anthony's here. Paul's here. Julie's here. Why we're here? We're here for vegan news. Animal rights news. You know the deal. And if you don't know the deal, welcome for the very first time. But that is enough of the falafel. It is time for vegan week.
00:00:15
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used Brrr! Brody! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:27
Speaker
Should I call the media and say, hi,
Youth Awareness on Animal Cruelty
00:00:29
Speaker
sorry? True education. younger generation are getting to know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems of thinking.
00:00:39
Speaker
What is this? kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice has occurred. connection with another as long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:00:57
Speaker
cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision and hello everybody julie here welcome to the show and thank you very much for joining us Hello everyone, this is Paul, who has just realised he's forgotten to print out the main meeting notes, so I'm going to make this up as I go along. ah This is our vegan news show, where we look at ah yes good good look where we look at a number of articles that have happened over the week impacting animal rights and animal welfare news, and I'm hoping that's covered it.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, you just need to do the enough of the falafel bit, Paul. That's enough of the falafel. Let's listen to the news.
00:01:38
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:51
Speaker
Okay, folks, we are starting off with a little section called English Corner on travelnews.ch.
Debate on Dolphin Attractions and Activism
00:01:58
Speaker
The yeah very intelligent amongst you will know that CH means it's a Swiss news page. We've been getting quite a few Swiss news stories recently.
00:02:06
Speaker
But confusingly, it's talking about TUI, which I suppose is an international holiday company. The headline, animal rights activists criticise TUI over dolphin attractions. Yes, the TUI group is facing mounting pressure from a group of prominent scientists who I thought that was a particularly noteworthy point from this story. Scientists from Italy, England, the USA and New Zealand have used strong language to criticise the travel company's offerings, particularly around keeping animals like bottlenose dolphins in captivity. They say bottlenose dolphins have habitats of more than 100 square kilometres in the wild and dive to depths that no facility can replicate. The debate has been reignited by this letter, so says the news story.
00:02:58
Speaker
TUI have given an interesting response. They're arguing that only those who remain in business can improve conditions on the ground. They say, through ticket sales, we have influence over the tour operators. And they basically say that they're keeping their standards where they should be or or pressuring for standards to improve. Julie, this is an interesting one because that's not really the argument that the scientists are giving, it? No, they've missed the point. They have missed the point. I am afraid that Sebastian Ebel, Ebel, whatever, despite being the CEO of one of the largest tourism groups in the world... has missed the point.
00:03:41
Speaker
So, yes, we're not saying that, you know, the dolphins need better conditions and that that would be ensured by, a you know, him only patronising the best holiday resorts you know with the highest welfare for the dolphins. That's not what these scientists are saying. They are questioning the fact that these things should even exist because it's very clear that marine animals in captivity are unhealthy, unwell, completely stressed and you know, damaged by that experience. So yeah, he's missed the point of the argument entirely. It's an interesting one because I think it's one of these areas of animal exploitation where some quite otherwise well-meaning animal lovers can feel quite positive, you know, in that, ah but you know, we were on holiday and we went to this place and, that you know, my children swam with dolphins and they were all happy together and the dolphins were coming up to us and they were loving it and all the rest of it because they they don't understand how these animals are trained, how they're punished in their training and the horrible confined animals
00:05:07
Speaker
short, unhappy lives that they lead. So if you do have pals out there who are telling you about their wonderful holiday and their mutually enjoyable experience swimming with dolphins, please put them right that honestly, there is so much cruelty involved in this animal's lifestyle. You know, you've already mentioned, Anthony, about the shallowness of the water that they're forced to live in. It causes their skin problems because they can't dive deep down away from the hot sun, so they get sunburned and sunstroken ill. But yeah, it's just a horrible, unnatural environment for animals who very often wouldn't choose to be interacting with human beings at all and who can become very unwell from their interactions with humans. so And even swimming with wild dolphins does not get them off the hook because that can damage dolphins as well. Dolphins in the wild need to know to stay away from people and from boats and things to avoid themselves coming to harm and taming them is actually putting them in danger. Absolutely. Now, the statement that World Animal Protection are also giving in this article is very clear. They say wild animals don't belong in concrete tanks, but in the wild, they're weighing in as well with with an upcoming annual general meeting for TUI. So I think this is a campaign coming in in different fronts. Yes, they're going to attend. It's Tuesday this coming week.
00:06:37
Speaker
They're going to go to and the AGM for TUI. While we're here, I would like to say shout out to other holiday companies who have completely stopped organising trips to these so-called attractions. And if you want to see humanity at some of its worst in its relationship to um marine animals, you can read the reviews on a TUI website or on, a what's that site called? Trustpilot. Trustpilot.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah, people who have done a TUI holiday, because I i i thought, right, let let me try and book a dolphin a holiday. And I went on the TUI website and I looked at the reviews and some of the comments from some...
00:07:24
Speaker
human beings in the loosest sense of the word, in relation to their experience with the dolphins, you'd think that they were just talking about putting their children on one of these mechanised machines outside a supermarket or something. Just absolutely horrible. What was it? Somebody said, oh yeah, it was worth us upgrading to two dolphins.
00:07:48
Speaker
So they paid extra for m two dolphins. Just horrible. Yes, indeed.
Vegan Campaigns Impact on Public Events
00:07:55
Speaker
That tells you almost all you need to know really there. But like you say, Julie, lots to celebrate in terms of folks getting the right message out there and seemingly doubling down on this campaign, which Hopefully, we'll be reporting more news on in the in the coming weeks in terms of more positive actions following that annual general meeting of TUI. Boo, TUI, booey, booey. Let's move on to the next story. Now, Pete, behind the curtain, listeners, Paul's been a bit concerned this week when I sent him the running order because I've i've given him...
00:08:27
Speaker
Two news stories from GB News or GBBs as we'll refer to them for the rest of the show. The first one, theatre showing Peppa Pig stop serving bacon after vegan outcry. I will say...
00:08:43
Speaker
but To give, no, I'm not going to give GB News credit. I thought this was ah less hyperbolic than I thought it might be. Let's hear the facts first. A Lincolnshire theatre, namely Grimsby Auditorium, has confirmed it will pull all pork products...
00:08:59
Speaker
from its cafe, but just during performances of Peppa Pig's Big Family Show. That is a stage production taking place on March the 3rd and March the 4th. So bacon sandwiches, sausage rolls, ham sandwiches and scotch eggs are normally on the menu. They will not be for those days. And crucially, they will be serving vegan ham alternatives. But um it's it's not, they've not just done this off their own bat. Peter have been behind this. And in fact, it seems, Paul, that they've managed this in another place too. I'm scrolling down the article and I, oh yes, here we are. Chichester Festival Theatre did the same thing in November. This was not during Peppa Pig though. It was during the run of The Three Little Pigs. Like I say, Paul, the wording of the article I thought was pretty moderate. It does mention some comments ah from social media, which are talking about wokery and blah, blah, blah, blah. blah
00:09:57
Speaker
But um we can take this as a win. Seems positive. Yeah, I'm assuming we're still friends, given you give me the two articles from GB News. But um yeah, yeah, this is um when I read through it, I kind of I guess I i read the headline and I thought, OK, it doesn't sound too clickbaity, but let's dive in and see what's actually in it. Expecting some kind of, you know, wokery kind of comments. But as you say, on balance, and I hate to admit it, it was it was a pretty fair article. And I'm i'm still thinking I missed something on that basis. But and it includes quite lengthy quotes from...
00:10:33
Speaker
pizza which come across as quite i don't think there's a lot to pick out from there that you know people be like oh little blow vegans woke type people etc what does come out as a bit daft are the comments that you that are quoted from social media because they are the classic oh i'm going to eat more pork or ham before i go to the show you know and that just looks really childish and stupid so if anything I hate to say it, I think it veers more towards supporting the position we'd expect.
00:11:02
Speaker
but It's left me very confused. But yeah, it's it's um it's an interesting one. Obviously, ultimately, this is maybe helping people think about the cognitive dissonance of kind of going to a show.
00:11:13
Speaker
bit bit like when we've had ah discussions before in the past about going to maybe like an an animal rehoming centre that does a meat barbecue or something like that. It's just it's just kind of to raise funds, for example, is a crazy sort set up.
00:11:25
Speaker
So really good on that front. And, you know, I mean, we've seen, can't remember if we've talked about this before in the past, but we've seen some kind of bigger events, haven't we, from pop stars like Morrissey and people like that, where they've asked for no meat to be served at the whole event. And you wonder if maybe, maybe this is very, maybe on the early starts of this sort of thing becoming like normal where artists or performances related to animals might start to see more of that thing which would be really good it's a it's a you know slow start perhaps so yeah um like you say pretty pretty um pretty positive ironically it's a children's show and it's only the silly comments from adults that come across as uh as daft really but yeah other than that pretty pretty positive i think Yeah, I mean, obviously, we could spend all of our lives picking apart comment sections on GB News or social media. But I mean, the general theme was like, oh, this is idiotic. This is woke or what have you. But I mean, whether or not it was a vegan thing, Surely it's understandable to say that a child doesn't want to be in a space where the main character is being eaten in front of them in real life. Surely that stands to reason that, you know, that doesn't even touch the sides of animal rights. I think that's a fairly straightforward argument, isn't it? You think so. Yeah, you think so. But I mean, it's the same as we've talked before about taking kids to fun days at race courses while horses are being raced to death around them. this kind of weird macabre sort juxtaposition that people are set up with, you know, in order to entertain kids, surround them with something that very not, very not, well, in our view, not entertaining.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, i I see this as a win-win, really, unless you're from the pig exploitation trade, in that I would have thought theatre-goers would just buy something else, so the theatre's not going to lose out on money. And just from an animal rights point of view, even if one person makes just a tiny temporary connection, and I'm sure it'll be more than one person, then that's that's a win from her for the animal's point of view. So well done, Peter, for that. persistent campaigning and glad to see it's not just in Grimsby that that has that's come to pass. Keep it up.
00:13:41
Speaker
Thank you very much. We are moving on to our third
Vegan Diets and Health Insights for Children
00:13:44
Speaker
story. This is a study, a massive study. This Israeli study tracked nearly 1.2 million infants I don't know necessarily that every single data point was used, but obviously that's a huge number of people as a potential source for this. And they were focusing on plant-based eating, as well as vegetarian eating and omnivorous eating. and seeing the impact that it has on very young children following this diet. So this is researchers from Ben Gurion University of the Negev and Israeli Health Ministries Nutrition Division.
00:14:23
Speaker
They examined 10 years of child health records from 2014 to 2023, and they were looking at white length and head circumference from birth through age two in these children. So basically look and see if you follow a certain diet, what impact does it have on those very basic measurements? And basically the summary is ah not a lot of difference. There was one early flag, as they call it, infants in vegan households, they're interchanging the word vegan with plant-based there, but Let's just go with it because that's their quote. Infants in vegan households were more likely to be underweight in the first 60 days of life, yet that gap faded over time and was no longer statistically meaningful by 24 months, i.e. two years. So stunting rates, as they've called them, they were low in every group. 3.1% for omnivores, 3.4% for vegetarians, 3.9% for vegans slash plant-based dieters. So a tiny difference, but what um statisticians would call ah not a meaningful or not a statistically significant difference. Obviously, Julie, animal rights is is more than just the diet that you follow. But in terms of
00:15:40
Speaker
people who are choosing to start families and thinking, goodness, is it safe for me to to do this? That's a huge number of children that they've based this data on, admittedly just from one part of the world. But that's giving you the assurance you need, I would have thought, isn't it? It's it's not making a difference. with Absolutely, absolutely. And there are very few nicer phrases out there, I think, than vegan babies.
00:16:08
Speaker
So shout out to everybody out there listening who has a wee vegan baby listening alongside as well. Nothing nicer. So yes, I think I'm not surprised at all by this. And I think these wee babies that are a bit lighter up until the first 60 days of life, are they underweight or just naturally a bit lighter but still perfectly healthy just at that particular
00:16:42
Speaker
life stage. Because I don't think bigger is always better if you're a wee baby necessarily. And bigger as early as possible isn't, I don't think, a good thing. 25% of children in the UK are overweight or obese by the time they start school.
00:16:58
Speaker
And being overweight and rapidly gaining weight and when you're a wee baby is apparently linked with a higher risk of obesity in later life, as well as a higher risk of asthma and cardiovascular disease. so And childhood obesity is on the rise, we're told. So I think that these wee vegan babies are going to be you know in a very strong position, not just equal to their peers, but actually in better nick when they're older and to when they're little babies. I think it is a terrible thought that so many children, including me when I was little, are given dead bodies to eat when they don't know what they're eating and they can't make an informed choice. So I think if you were going to make a decision on behalf of a little person who who can't give consent either way, you would err on the side of
00:17:55
Speaker
something healthy and plant-based and peaceful until they were old enough to say well actually I really want to eat meat you know because what yeah I just think that would be the nicest way around obviously to do it but for anybody to raise children even if you aren't vegan yourself. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's it's the epitome of forcing your opinions down someone's throat is is making them eat animal products when, like you say, they they're not able to process where that has come from. And in fact, I think Logan, a lovely now teenage interviewee of a couple of years ago said as much, you know, actually anyone saying to me that I'm having a vegan diet forced upon me. No, it's everyone else who's having animal products forced upon them.
00:18:43
Speaker
Well said. And um yeah, great to see this study with so many people showing such a a positive outcome. So that's great. We're going to move on to a story about Brittany Ferries and regular listeners to the show might already know where this is touching. from it is the start of calf season, according to this story, from Marine Link. So this is from a ah shipping perspective, but they're nonetheless reporting on this story that is affecting animals. Unweaned calves are... are being transported from Ireland to France. But NGOs, including Compassion in World Farming, Four Paws, Well Farm and Ethical Farming Ireland, are planning a media storm to make people aware of the animal welfare issues.
NGO Campaigns for Animal Welfare
00:19:31
Speaker
And just to outline those now for folk that aren't aware. So these very young animals, undweaned calves, by the time they have made this journey across the ocean from Ireland to France, The calves have gone for over 18
00:19:47
Speaker
without food. They often are then transported on from France by road and to places like the Netherlands, Spain and Poland where their journeys can last up to 80 hours. And in fact, um if any of our listeners regularly go onto the Animal Readers website, we use a lot of their stories. They seem to be putting a particular campaign on live export at the moment. In a survey released last month, 83% of EU citizens expressed concern about the transport of very young and unweaned animals, with only 22% convinced that current protections were adequate.
00:20:25
Speaker
Paul, we've seen in the last story the impact that carefully curated media and and marketing and advertising and campaigning can have.
00:20:38
Speaker
We've got a hope that Compassion in World Farming and and the other organisations have got similarly sharp PR media clause as as Peter so they can really make an impact with this this media campaign. Yeah, and I think like their last story as well, there's a pattern, isn't there, here? Because Tui, as mentioned, recall and and um I'm happy to be corrected here but I think they're pretty much in terms of our UK main operators they're the only one left that doing the dolphin trips for want of a better phrase I certainly remember c hearing about Virgin and another one can't remember like the big players no longer doing it I guess similar to this I i i assume because it doesn't actually say that perhaps Brittany Ferries and Irish Ferries are
00:21:21
Speaker
um the only ones continuing to do this is that if anyone knows any different but I think when you've got like one player left doing something and it was the same for airlines carrying monkeys wasn't it I think it's like was it Mauritius Air someone like that it it's kind of like the last one you need to kind of focus on because there's always going to be one organisation without any morals who's willing to kind of take the take the money for it And and that's perhaps perhaps what you need to focus on to say, hey, look, everyone else has stopped doing this.
00:21:46
Speaker
These are the bad guys. you need to um you know You need to give it up. And then the industry ah or the opportunity to do that dies, unless they can convince someone else to to pick it up. So yeah, won't reflect well for Brittany Ferries and Irish Ferries.
00:22:00
Speaker
Interesting that, like you say, that this is, ah I guess, like a shipping publication. So, you know, one one would assume fairly neutral. I don't know. I mean, I suppose a lot of there is a lot of business to be made from this of stuff. So perhaps perhaps there is an interest. But, yes yeah, I think you've covered the main so salient points in terms of the 18 hours without. food and i think we all know how we feel after eight, without 18 hours of food. yes Yeah, then the the massive journeys that follow via other transport, all just so someone can sort of satiate their palate with something we don't need. It was, I'll jump in, Paul. it um it
00:22:33
Speaker
We reported in late September that Stena line had announced they were going to stop yeah live export um a similar route island to France. and So like you say, it's it's interesting that you've got one company saying we're not going to do this anymore. Another company saying, well, we don't care. We're going to continue doing it. And I wonder whether that could be a line for these activists to take in in terms of highlighting to the wider public, well, did you know that, you know, Brittany Ferries are ah saying that this is acceptable, but Stenner Line don't seem to think so. And, you know, it could affect their bottom line in more ways than one, couldn't they, highlighting that? And I guess we need to put it in the context of the other um changes that have been made to live animals exports around the whole of the United Kingdom as well. Contextually, this could appear to be, lagging behind immediate media neighbours as well. So you've got that sort of slant on it as well, I think. Yeah, interesting stuff and definitely one that we'll continue to report on the developments of. It's definitely not the last we'll hear from this one. Thank you for that one, Paul. Well, before we hear Julie's pick for the week, we've we've snuck one other story in for Julie to comment on. This is from The Herald, which is a Scottish publication, and they're proudly saying that Edinburgh is named as one of the UK's best cities, for vegan
Vegan Options and Criteria Evaluations
00:23:54
Speaker
food. We felt this was an important addendum to the show, seeing as when we featured in our quiz episode over the holidays in December, that Edinburgh didn't appear in, I think it was Happy Cow's top 25 cities in the world for for vegan food. But they're saying the only cities in the UK ranking higher than Edinburgh are London and Bristol. So third best in the UK. But I was wondering, Julie...
00:24:22
Speaker
So the criteria they're using here, they say, oh, London's the best because there's a total of 678 vegan and vegan-friendly eateries with five-plus reviews. And they're they're talking about places that have vegan options. Now, would you say that it's vegan-friendly to have vegan options?
00:24:44
Speaker
Or I'm thinking, but you personally, you might have a similar opinion to me. If you're sitting next to someone chewing down on a steak, I'm not sure how vegan friendly that is. Am I being too grumpy there? and No, not at all. And also, if you are a restaurant and you do not have a vegan option, then you must be serving wall-to-wall meat and fish then, because you could go to somewhere and just have like chips that are...
00:25:13
Speaker
cooked in their own little place and i mean um not in with the other meaty stuff so um if you can't go into an eating establishment and order a green salad without bits of dead body in it you know you that there's there's trouble somewhere so this is just a story about nothing basically i went on the sixth car hire website to try and find the actual study i couldn't find it anywhere So I don't know where they're getting this from. I don't know what their agenda is, what they're trying to promote about Edinburgh. But there was also northern city that was, was it Manchester, was the best northern city. So they're kind of just giving out prizes to anybody they fancy. And I recommend that if you go to Google or your favourite search engine and just put in vegan restaurants in Edinburgh, have a look at the dismal array tiny that i call it an array it's not an array at all look at the dismal collection of mainly vegetarian restaurants that come up not even that google's google is awful for searching vegan restaurants because you'll get something that comes out like a steak place or something some and that's usually because someone says there are no vegan options here as far as the search engine's concerned If he says it's shit, it comes up. I know, know. But, you know, as someone who only lives sort of 12 or 13 miles away from Edinburgh, take it from me, there are not many places and there are very, very few that are fully vegan anywhere our capital. Have you been to Nova Pizza? Yes. I love that place, man. It's a lovely, beautiful place. I love it. Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I did have their biggest pizza and I finished it with ease, Paul. Absolutely. Despite people doubting that I was going to manage that and iron up bits of my pizza. I was like, no, no, no. i I'll take this from here. Yeah, Julie's silencing the doubters.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's, so um it did come across as, um yeah, there's a very clever SEO person working for or on behalf of Sixth. And they've decided that, oh, well, if you've got the word vegan, it does well in search terms. So ah let's do that and pair it with Edinburgh and pair it with our company. And that'll do some good either that or there's a ah you know an executive in the company that is vegan and is just tenuously linking it to anything to do with them but no I think they want you to they think that maybe vegan is a trendy thing to hop on to and they would like you to hire one of their cars in England and drive all the way to Edinburgh looking for this multitude of wonderful restaurants Yes, indeed. I'm sorry, a lot of them that were wonderful and there was a few not many, but a few have closed down in the last 10 years. We've lost a lot of them.
00:28:15
Speaker
good to Good to have this inside line, Julie. Thank you for that insight. Our last story before we hear picks of the week is focusing on New South Wales in Australia.
Animal Welfare Enforcement Developments
00:28:27
Speaker
And the government is increasing funding to 12.8 million Australian dollars for animal welfare enforcement. and This is an interesting one. We've given Paul this one for a reason because you've spoken a few times in the past, Paul, talking about the RSPCA in the UK and the fact that it's not centrally funded and people treat it like it's an emergency service or a police force or so or something like that but it's not receiving that central funding but it does seem like in Australia not only are they getting funding but it's it's increased slightly for context listeners and I'm only going to translate this into UK pounds but one Aussie dollar is fifty p So sort of half that number for the equivalent in ah in Great British Pounds. And I suppose it's about the same for dollars, isn't it? So let's say six and a bit million pounds or the equivalent. They say that this money is going to be used to strengthen enforcement and compliance activities aimed at better protecting cats, dogs, livestock, and other animals across the the state. It's a small increase, Paul. It looks like $300,000 Aussie dollars increase from last year. But I mean, it's it's got to be a good outcome for animals if if those who are inspecting and and kind of advocating on certain elements of animals' well-being have got more funding to do so, right?
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you you don't know what the net result is, I guess, and in terms of performance against that. But yeah, on on paper, more money equals hopefully better better outcomes. I guess this um reminded me, because we've had a a so few similar stories recently, haven't we? i'm trying to I was trying to remember where, i can't remember if it was the Philippines or somewhere else, where we saw a lot of governments announcing more funding being made available for various welfare and animal-related, whether it was laws or whether it was for activities or or enforcement like here. um Was it the Philippines or have I remembered that wrongly?
00:30:22
Speaker
It was Taiwan, wasn't it? was Taiwan. i'm sure there There have been several countries that have upped things, whether it's legislation yeah or and or funding. Yeah. So, I mean, like said, includes a lot of good stuff in there, like leaving dogs in hot cars, which I guess in New South Wales, you know, with the heat over there is a massive thing. Banning prong collars. A lot of this, of you read through it and you thought, I'd have thought some of this stuff might already have been there. But OK, if it's not.
00:30:48
Speaker
put it in there, that's great. you know So that's that's kind of, maybe maybe they're a little bit lagging behind, but it it was it was good from that perspective. And as you say, i guess one of the things we know about in this country is the ah RSPCA, even if you do look at the centrally funded bit, which um ah sort of supports the officers side of things, you know generally speaking, there's only really a small handful, maybe two or three officers covering a massive area so in terms of the UK sorry to overseas ah people that might not understand this in terms like West Mercy region you know there'll be about two or three people covering that and hundreds of calls coming through and you know they can only get through so much um so I guess you know if you could put more people out there to enforce and investigate that's a good thing you know ah so yeah You could say this is good for the money, but I mean, there's maybe an argument that says, should the money be going towards maybe addressing issues more at the start? So promoting more of a vegan diet, for example, or perhaps even some labeling and that is a bit more um truthful for products. ah He says trying to create a link to a later story, obviously. But and yeah, so I think it's um's it's good, but um I think, you know, it's not a panacea. It's not going to fix everything at the end of the day. Yeah, I'd be interested to see the difference between the amount of funds that an organisation like the RSPCA gets if it's if it initially receives multi-million pound injection from the state.
00:32:22
Speaker
does that then limit how much people are willing to donate just random members of the public? where Whereas, you know, the the RSPCA in the UK, if it is predominantly or exclusively donations based, I wonder whether you get more money that way. I mean...
00:32:39
Speaker
I'm not saying that one is right, but in terms of the the net result in the end. But then I suppose you do have things like the Air Ambulance in the UK, who I'm part of a group that will regularly do collections for the Air Ambulance. And you would have thought that that would receive some central funds as well. But yeah, we're we're veering away from speak about animal rights here. But some yeah, how these organisations are funded is interesting. Animal ambulances is something I'm very interested in, but that's another story. In a vegan world, it would be something that... the Yes, didn't it? For sure. i
00:33:11
Speaker
I'm pleased that this funding has continued and indeed increased, despite the fact that the New South Wales Minister for Agriculture's surname is Moriarty. I was picturing a very sinister person who would be doing all sorts of horrible things. But yes, it seems seems that they're not as cruel-hearted as the Sherlock Holmes villain. Anyway, that's
Podcast Accessibility and Legal Discussions on Veganism
00:33:32
Speaker
enough tangents. We're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we're hearing Julie and Paul's picks for the week. Julie has gone for an incredibly complex, difficult, multi-layered. It's quite dry. It's it's the animal welfare act. Oh, it's so deep. And Paul has got a story from GBBs. As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show.
00:33:58
Speaker
This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless, we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
00:34:10
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. I'm going to spell it all for you. Zencaster is Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R dot com, then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week.
00:34:32
Speaker
Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week. and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:34:45
Speaker
Right, come on then, Julie, we're going to need all the time we can get on this one. This is from the UK Human Rights blog. Not come across this before, I was glad to come across it. who Yeah, it's some deep stuff, but it seems like the League Against Cruel Sports are stepping up and presenting a letter to DEFRA, the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, calling them to pull their finger out, basically. Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
So it's not time the League Against Cruel Sports on their own. It's them in conjunction with the Animal Law Foundation. Thank you. And I suspect they'll be taking the lead on this because they are very clever, wonderful vegan lawyers sticking up for animals and seeing where things need to change for them in terms of the law. So the context is this. If anybody can think back to 2006 when Tony Blair was our, well he wasn't mine but you know it was the Prime Minister in his third lot of being in office and just trying to get stuff done before he retired basically. He put out this Animal Welfare Act and
00:35:58
Speaker
And this is the thing. So this is, you know, 20 years old now, this legislation. And it was that act that mandated these five welfare requirements that people kind of know quite well. the A suitable environment, a proper diet, whatever that is, and the ability to exhibit normal behaviour, appropriate housing with or apart from others. and protection from pain, suffering, injury, and disease. So this was for animals who are sort of normally, there's a funny definition, but normally sort of under the control of humans. So it didn't cover wild animals and it didn't cover the wee people in the sea, like wee crabs and lobsters and those folk. It was, you know, basically what you might call domesticated animals. So that's the kind of context. it's It's talking about that legislation. And really, I mean, and I'm not clever, but right off the bat, if those requirements were absolutely enforced and everything...
00:37:17
Speaker
where you know factory farming would score an absolute zero on all five of those how can that still be a thing and mega farms there's a thousand of them in the UK and most of them have sprung up since 2006 so how is that happening if we've got this legislation so anyway That's the kind of context background.
00:37:43
Speaker
But what the Animal Law Foundation and League Against Cruel Sports have done is they've written a letter. It's been also signed by 38 different animal welfare and animal rights organisations. And they would like a better interpretation of the Act's commitments and they would like some regulations so that you could actually do a bit of enforcing it and actually you know get this law working as it should work. And it would also support the UK government's more recent animal welfare strategy, which was just last year, wasn't it? So you could deliver the commitments of that strategy. It wasn't a great strategy, but it was something using this 2006 legislation. So that's what they would like to happen. And they've asked for a meeting with DEFRA because obviously, you know, we've had this legislation for 20 years and things have changed a bit for animals, but not a lot. And my own reading of the situation, for what it's worth my uninformed opinion, is that this legislation that we have in place at the moment, it's intended to keep certain animals that humans choose, it's intended to keep them alive and free from disease so that they'll be fit to consume when humans decide that their lives should end and they transport them to slaughter them.
00:39:17
Speaker
It's not about animal welfare for the animal's sake. It's just about making sure that their wee dead bodies are useful, you know, and that they are able to be transported so they can be killed, so they can be used as commodities. That's how i see when you look at the very scant number of regulations that exist, it is about controlling diseases that would affect the marketability of that poor animal as ah as a carcass or a piece of meat. it's It's not about the animal themselves, which is why wild animals aren't involved because you don't make money out of them.
00:39:56
Speaker
Yes. I mean, i understand that somebody writing this Animal Welfare Act or indeed trying to execute it to to the letter or close to the letter, I understand the the reticence at...
00:40:14
Speaker
trying to dismantle animal agriculture or anything like that. Like that's that's obviously a a big undertaking and I can understand why a government or or an official would say, oh gosh, let's let's not do that. However, like you say, Julie, since 2006, there's been plenty of new things coming into place, whether they be mega farms, whether they be, you know, whatever it is.
00:40:39
Speaker
where you could just point to this and say, well, no, there's this act that says we're not doing that anymore. So I think at the very least, that should be something that should be happening. And and it's I think it's fantastic that these things are being pointed out in terms of like, well, let's remove these exclusions for certain species and and and things like that. But it's It's kind of, it's like the the hunting act, isn't it? it's It's one thing having it in place and then it's another thing actually enforcing it. It's just very, very frustrating anything to do with the law and animals because it's just always on the side of the humans. It's also human-centric. The problems that the Animal Law Foundation and the League Against Cruel Sports are going to sort of come up against is that DEFRA themselves don't make the decisions about animal welfare. They're not responsible for animal welfare. It's the animal plant
00:41:39
Speaker
Health Agency, Animal Plant owner horse animal plant and Health Agency, AFA I call it. They are on the side of farmers and animal ag and they are the ones who make these products.
00:41:54
Speaker
decisions. So, you know, these people aren't around the table. DEFRA are in touch with 34 agencies and public bodies that are sort of make up DEFRA. They're like a big thing, you know, a big multi-armed thing, creature. And none of the ARMS of DEFRA have animal well-being as part of their remit at all.
00:42:22
Speaker
It's all about industry and, you know, that that. There is nobody... These people are having to beg for a meeting, but actually there should be. If AFA has a responsibility for animal welfare, they should be consulting, they should be asking for meetings themselves with animal welfare organisations. Animal welfare organisations shouldn't have to beg for their time and attention.
00:42:48
Speaker
That is one thing. And the other thing, and I don't want to put a downer on any of this, but the legislation that we've got at the moment, yes, it doesn't have enough regulations attached to it and they don't have anything like an animal welfare focus, as we would understand it, never mind anything to do with animal rights.
00:43:06
Speaker
But also, even if we did have better legislation, which is what these two organisations are asking for, it's enforcement that is a real biggie of a problem.
00:43:17
Speaker
So in Scotland, we have only one full-time equivalent post for over a thousand farms for carrying out just even one inspection in the course of a year. So even if you had great legislation, who's going to enforce it? You know, that's the tricky bit, isn't it? that There just needs to be a whole different model, I think, for the people who unfortunately make that hideous choice to exploit and kill animals for a living, that they're allowed to go on and carry on their business
00:43:50
Speaker
until somebody inspects them and and you know stops them doing something absolutely heinous. And when you look at the m Animal Law Foundation's website, how few inspections are carried out and how few enforcements are actually followed up on. and how many you know i mean it just The numbers get so tiny, it's ridiculous. So I'm afraid farmers are just allowed free reign to do more or less what they like to animals. So it's not a very happy... story but I think just because things are like the way they are just now and it's not nice obviously it's not positive it doesn't mean that things will always have to be that way definitely not and the first step to getting things different is to know what's going on and to know what's wrong with what's going on and this
00:44:43
Speaker
piece of work by the League Against Cruel Sports and the Animal Law Foundation has definitely, definitely done that. So shout out to them. It's a great piece of work and the Animal Law Foundation website is a really, really interesting source of information if you want to know a bit more about what they are about and what they do. They do amazing work.
00:45:04
Speaker
And it's very easy to to stay in touch with their their work as well. There's a big old button that says stay in touch, stay updated on their website and you can donate to their work as well. So follow the links in the show notes to hear more from those good people too. Thank you for that one, Julie.
00:45:22
Speaker
Now, Paul, I used to think being sued meant that you'd lost work. But I've read through this story a few times and it it shows what I'm learning that suing and being sued, it just means there's that there's been a a case held, doesn't it? Because the headline for your pick of the week is university sued by staff member because his pension isn't vegan. But the worker or the ex-worker hasn't won this case, have they? Are you able to tell us some more? I think some facts about the story first is important before we discuss the ah the ah morality and and and wider themes here. Yeah, so what we have here is ex-staff member who has attempted to sue University of Manchester and the relevant pension-related organisation for essentially not offering vegan pensions. So most companies, as people know, for but default pension and as i think we've discussed i don't think i was on the show but we've discussed before about there isn't essentially a vegan pension out there at the moment in the uk certainly um there are better pensions but um there's not a whole vegan pension and so the guy was essentially saying here you know you've not given me the option veganism is a protected characteristic you're not essentially honoring that um and also stated the provision of a Sharia compliant pension as an example where a protected characteristic was being honoured from a pension provision. So that's kind of the background to it. Interestingly, i think this is slightly more clickbaity. The headline has vegan in capital letters and the old anything to do with Sharia gets the old gammons.
00:47:09
Speaker
Techie done it straight away, like kind of, oh, what's going on here? So I think that was... But it is relevant. It is relevant to the case that's been made. So to be clear, it is relevant to talk about. It's not just some kind of GB News nonsense to sort of chuck it in there. What it did remind me of, and I'm sure you're both familiar with it, was that there was a quite a landmark case that I think was significant for establishing ethical veganism as a potential a belief was... um And I can never say this guy's second name properly, don't think... but Jordi... I think it's Casamandjara, but I'm not sure. Casamandjara, thank you. I even scribbled it down wrong, but let's call him Jordi. And ironically, because we've just been talking about Lax, he took Lax to court on the basis of them not providing a vegan a vegan pension and the and the fact that he was let go for raising objections to this um and essentially was appealing against that ah dismissal
00:48:05
Speaker
um as a result of that. ah He actually won his case there um and actually Lax ended up changing their default pension. Although again, as I mentioned before, I suspect that's just to a more a more ethical pension, but not a vegan pension. So they've obviously had to take action as well. In this case,
00:48:24
Speaker
However, as ah you alluded to earlier on, this guy didn't win this case. He attempted to sue and the a finding of this case was that via a tribunal was that there was no ah there was no basis for a win. So essentially the case I think was thrown out and the judge in question also interestingly said that the university couldn't change its default pension, which I think is wrong because because given that lax case we talked about, so that's quite interesting. i'm I'm sure they would have referred back to this lax case, but it isn't mentioned. so And also I think probably where the guy... shot himself in the foot was that he himself said that there isn't actually an ethical pension scheme out there to to go to so I think they've just jumped on that and gone we've already you've already kind of said we can't go to something, it doesn't exist so what do you expect us to do sort of thing so I think he's
00:49:20
Speaker
I don't know if that was intentional, whether he was just trying to use it to draw attention to it it. It doesn't become very clear when you read through the article, but essentially he's he's lost and yeah not as successful as Jordi was with his case with Lacks.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, earlier on in the show, Paul, you covered a story where Peter's activism had got involved and very often they will be making asks of organisations or people that they never expect to be successful.
00:49:55
Speaker
And I wonder whether this could arguably be seen in a similar way. Perhaps the ex-employee of University of Manchester knew that they weren't going to win the case. And maybe this is just the first step in highlighting the fact that there isn't such a thing as a vegan pension. I mean, I've employed lots of people um previously as a business owner. And so I was vaguely aware that there's no such thing as a vegan pension. i've obviously got the great privilege of working on this show with you guys. And episode 162, listeners, is your bank account or pension. suitable for vegans we tapped into richard's considerable knowledge of all things finance and obviously being a very committed <unk> vegan too he's he's a good person to talk to about these things but were it not for those two things i don't think i would have been aware so you could argue this is uh you know this is reaching gb news and other such outlets
00:50:55
Speaker
Maybe it's a clever thing or is it just someone, I mean, it's very easy to call a tribunal. You just you just say, right, I want a tribunal. I've forgotten the name of the government organisation now that you contact, but it's it's a very... they can't.
00:51:10
Speaker
ah like yeah Yeah. And all you've got to do is just hold your nerve and say, yeah, I want to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Persist, persist, persist. And eventually you'll get your, you know, your day at court or or or however it happens. So maybe it's just a particularly persistent person. Do you have a hunch, Paul or Julie? Is it? Yeah, I think you're probably i think you're probably right. um I mean, the guy could be a chancer, or or if he's if he's just kind of thinking you might get some money out of it, but it's it's quite a big thing to expect to win that. So I so i expect, like you say, it's more a case of drawing attention to... And I think there's a really interesting quote near the end from the judge, Rachel Barker, in this case. And she says, the worker told me that the key point in this case was not statistical evidence or legal argument, but the morality of the issue, which, you know, fair enough, I think we get. And he she says, I told him, and I repeat here for the record, that this is not the primary consideration. The tribunal must apply the law.
00:52:08
Speaker
as it currently stand stands, and not as a work worker may wish it to. So for me, that is a classic case of showing that the law is not the same as morals. And I think, you know, we've seen through how many stories that that's the case, you know, ah they are two very different things, often to our bemusement, I think.
00:52:29
Speaker
m Yes, yes, indeed. Another very clear example of if there is ah an entrepreneur out there who's ah interested in setting up a vegan pension fund. I mean, there's there's various, as as we have covered in episode 162. There are lots of different ways you can invest your money as an ah alternative to a pension, but there's not a green-stickered vegan society-approved pension scheme at present.
00:52:57
Speaker
Can I just highlight a very funny thing I've noticed on GB News? You know, you have news stories have their sections of like types of reporting. On here, this story is like, across the UK, news, Manchester, north-west of England, woke madness. Ha! That is a GB News categorisation of news, Woke Madness. Perhaps we better rename the podcast.
00:53:19
Speaker
Who knows? Right, well thank you for that one, Paul. So listeners, you've heard Julie and Paul's Pick for the Weeks. We are always really keen to hear from you. You can get in touch with us really easy these days. Our Facebook, our Instagram, they are live. You're getting loads of posts, particularly on Facebook. We're trying to get most of the stories that we cover during the week's Vegan Week episode. We're trying to get them in the following week up as Facebook posts too, so you can very easily click through, read the stories.
00:53:50
Speaker
Do add your comments to those because we're always looking for things to discuss in our mailbag shows and we just like hearing from you anyway. The old traditional ways exist too. When I say old traditional ways, we won't be accepting written letters as lovely as that would be. Yeah, yeah, ah definitely not with a feather quill. But you can send us an email and that might be better if you want to send us a longer message. But short emails are also welcome. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com is the email address. But let's hear Julie and Dominic tell you about it too. They'll be more persuasive. Here we go.
00:54:23
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas what helps shape the show.
00:54:42
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, one last story then for this week's news. You might have seen this one, listeners. It's been one of those that's made its way into lots of different places. We're covering it from veganfoodandliving.com, but you'll get it in lots of places too, including Juliet Galatly's Facebook page, I think is where I first saw it this week. Oatly loses its post-milk generation battle and it's bad news for vegan brands. So yes, it's another story where semantics of products and can you call it milk? Are you allowed to call that beef jerky, et cetera, et cetera. It's the latest swing in the needle. And yes, it is going away from a plant-based company. So this is a UK Supreme Court ruling, Oatly's famous slogan, post milk generation. Basically, they've said, well, that doesn't make it clear enough that it's completely free from dairy. It could just be low in dairy. Again, it is that, oh, consumers could be confused. None of these cases ever seem to get together a focus group. and ask people whether they're confused. It's all protecting people from possibly being confused in a shop once. The Oatly brand argued very vigorously on this. They were saying, well, no, post milk generation, it describes a group of consumers. It's not describing the product itself, but the court
00:56:15
Speaker
disagreed. They said the wording was too oblique and, as I said earlier, failed to clarify whether the drink was truly milk-free or simply low in dairy. Where this comes from, it was a 2013 um that has remained post-Brexit, which strictly reserves terms like milk, butter and cheese for animal-derived products. Oatly have not missed an opportunity to put lots of PR after The event too, Brian Carroll, their general manager for the UK and Ireland, when speaking to the BBC, said that this decision creates unnecessary confusion and an uneven playing field that solely benefits Big Dairy.
00:56:59
Speaker
Julie, do you think Oatly are actually sad about this or is this just more PR, it gets them in the headlines more? I don't know whether they're sad about it or not. I think it was a great slogan.
00:57:11
Speaker
I think it was a really interesting angle and selling point, you know, that people couldn't feel kind of too threatened by, but it was just like, you know...
00:57:22
Speaker
implying that consuming cow's milk should be consigned to history which we would all agree with so they're probably a bit sad to lose that wonderful bit of marketing because they probably paid a lot of money for someone to come up with that but it's getting a lot of publicity now which is always good and it's making them look clever and it's making the people who are banning it and from being used look really freaking daft. If they can't tell the difference between naming something, called you know, identifying something as milk And identifying something as being not milk at all and being something that is instead of as a progressive in development beyond milk, you know, like beyond burgers or whatever. um yeah i just yeah words fail me it's good publicity for them and yes it does make them look i i don't know if i was even aware of that description of only post milk generation you know that bit of advertising but i've certainly i'm aware of it now so yeah good on them they'll be totally fine i think Yeah. And I suppose, Paul, there's nothing to stop them putting it on T-shirts and it being all over their social media. I i assume it's just on the packaging of the actual food that they can't use that phrase. But as as as hashtags and buzz phrases go, it it it still can be used. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I've i've been quite um actively following this story on one of our favourite groups, Farming UK, which And it happened to post a few comments on there because I i was interested to see what the general view was there. Because i in summary, I think all Dairy yeah UK have done here is spend a load of dosh.
00:59:17
Speaker
And yeah, you would have had to spend some dosh as well. So, you know, but and and to gain what? Absolutely nothing. As far as I can see, all they've done is, I think, protected a word that is increasingly seen as dirty.
00:59:31
Speaker
like white boy this if you think if ah If anyone thinks that as a result of this, that you know if the if the goal was to reduce oat milk sales and increase dairy milk sales, I can't see anyone going, my word, ah I didn't realise this and I must start consuming ah really cruel cruel ah products instead. um it's It's crazy. Also, Oatly, I think for the last... I think it's maybe since about... might be as recent as 2005. I might be wrong on that date.
00:59:59
Speaker
All their oats, certainly for the UK sales, come from UK farmers. So you've got arable farmers out there who... supporting, you know, supporting this product. So it doesn't seem like a very, um yeah, it doesn't seem like a very ah united farming front as ah as an approach to story. Yeah, crazy stuff, really. um I don't, as I say, I don't honestly see what they're going gain from it. In a way, I really hope that they continue down this line because we've talked a lot before, haven't we, about labelling and we've talked about what's happening in Europe and other countries about the same thing and with meat. And I really flipping hope they go down that line because I think they're going to, it's going to be a case of careful what you wish for, because when it comes down to it, if we start having a level playing field and say, okay, everyone, let's talk about how this product's produced. Let's talk honestly about that. You're in the shit then. So bring it on. yeah So I say brilliant.
01:00:53
Speaker
Yes. Quite literally. and i think they I think their strategy, I think their strategists are absolute morons. I mean, If they're sitting around like with party poppers going, really, guys, I mean, I'm i'm not a marketer, but it's short term victory for no real benefit. I mean, they, delete well, not very clever, I don't think. No, I have a couple of points to make on this one. Firstly, in terms of confusion, somebody with a real high value.
01:01:22
Speaker
gluten sensitivity you know like a celiac will obviously need to know whether something is a oat based milk drink or a dairy based milk drink somebody with that kind of sensitivity is gonna be checking really carefully they're not just gonna have a carefree look at a carton and be like oh i think i saw the word milk on there yeah i'll put that down my down my neck. You're you're going to be more careful. Think of vegans in shops, you know, we're careful. We we know how to scan ingredients. and So it's it's not like they're obscuring the facts on these cartons of milk or their custard or what have you. Like it's it it does say what is in there if you actually look at the ingredients, which like I say, as vegans, we all know how to find the ingredients of something.
01:02:09
Speaker
So that that's the first thing I think even if there's the the only people being confused are the people who don't actually care what they're consuming because they're just willy-nilly picking things up, putting in their basket, consuming it. Oh, I didn't taste exactly how I thought. Oh yeah, nevermind. So I don't really see that it's an issue if indeed that has ever happened. We've we've questioned on this pod before whether anyone has ever been confused by this.
01:02:36
Speaker
But there was a ah ah point that they they make. So the ruling raises eyebrows when one considers the long-standing exceptions allowed by the European Commission.
01:02:46
Speaker
Products like coconut milk and peanut butter have been granted a pass because they are considered traditional and well understood by consumers. Now, for me, like surely the first day that peanut butter was released, there would have been some confusion. Or there would have been people going, oh, so it doesn't have butter in it. I remember as of as a vegan in 2011 saying to people, oh, I can have peanut butter. And they're going, oh, really? It doesn't have butter in It's just peanuts, is it? Oh, okay. So at some point, peanut butter confused people. At some point, maybe the phrase coconut milk. I had a few people go, oh, is it coconut sand milk or whatever? Right. But like, it was fine. As far as I'm aware, no one died. And now people understand what peanut butter is in the same way that people understand what oat milk is. They do know. They know it's not from a cow. They know that you're not doing some sort of invasive procedure to an oat groat.
01:03:46
Speaker
People can learn new things. You know, we're we're listening to this on ah on, you know, maybe your MP3 player on your phone, or we've learned how to use new technologies. is but We are quite good at adapting as humans. So i I think we can cope with a slight semantic shift. But of course, this isn't about ah this isn't about reason and and rationality, is it? It's about re protecting itself. In future advertising for dairy products, will the dairy industry have to make it really, really clear that their stuff comes out of cow's udders in case people think it's oat made or, you what I mean? Will it work the other way that they they won't be able to do the same saying, oh, you know this is the real stuff. This this really does come out of a cow's udder.
01:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, include the somatic cell count on there and antibiotics. Like, let's list all those things on the ingredients. Yeah, yeah. yeah The other um thing here, my mate who I run with, ah he's not vegan, but he works, funny enough, he works in the chemical industry and does a lot of stuff with emulsifiers and things like that, which are quite a lot of, big part of, I think, of first some of the non-dairy products.
01:04:58
Speaker
drinks but he was saying milk of magnesia you know it's a long-standing um medical thing that everyone understands he's just play that back i mean that's that's quite obviously not milk and it's milk of magnesia maybe it'll be classed under that same classification you said that and he goes oh everyone everyone understands that that's been around i want to see you the dairy uk take on big pharma see i pick the bones out of that so well not literally that's a that's not a vegan phrase is it but you know what mean no no quite and i definitely don't fancy having any of saint john's wart that sounds disgusting doesn't it that's literally what it is um right well that brings us to the end of our final story from this week and if you're still listening there's a good chance that you appreciate and value what we do you may know this already they've
01:05:45
Speaker
there for, but we've got a Ko-Fi page. The link is in the show notes. If you're at all interested and in a position to be able to contribute financially to what we do, it goes towards buying things like microphones and useful stuff that you will feel the benefit from. So if that is a tool of interest, then do follow the link to that. And we do also ask every single show if you can share us and like us and recommend us to people. So let's hear some some of that persuasion, but to music.
01:06:16
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:06:42
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:06:52
Speaker
Thank you everyone for listening. The next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out will be Vegan Talk, available from Thursday the 19th of February. And that will be with Shane, Kate, Mark and Anthony. And part of that will be reviewing The End of Medicine, which is a film. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode.
01:07:13
Speaker
Thank you to Anthony and Paul for your contributions. Thanks again to everybody for listening. I've been Julie and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:07:33
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:07:48
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:08:14
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:08:35
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from