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245- Bulletproof arguments & dodging social media bullets: Listener Mailbag v10.0
119 Plays25 days ago
How can you tell if someone is vegan? They'll refuse your dairy milk chocolate gift, or any other gifts that result from animal exploitation! We've got a whole range of correspondence from you fabulous listeners over the last couple of months, so here to sift through & respond to your messages are Dominic, Shane & Anthony.
We love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
In this discussion we mention the following article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjez98nylkqo
Aaaaaaand, we make reference to our new Ko-Fi page, where you can contribute to our efforts to make the pod even slicker for everyone to listen to: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Shane, Dominic & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello everybody! It is time for us to get out our letter opener and get stuck into your correspondence as we delve into our 10th ever listener mailbag show. My name is Dominic and for this episode of Vegan Talk I am also joined by Shane and Anthony.
00:00:24
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Brrr! protein take your lab roll meat elsewhere we're not doing that in the state of florida should they call the medium say hi sorry true education younger generation are getting to know how brutal these practices are that leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems i think you know what is this what kind of movie is this it's comedy gold maybe any form of social injustice has
00:00:57
Speaker
As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
Listener Feedback and Animal Cruelty
00:01:06
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everybody, Anthony here. Welcome to the show and thank you for being here. Like Dominic says, our 10th ever Mailbag episode. Goodness me, how exciting.
00:01:20
Speaker
Hey everyone, this is Shane. Welcome to Vegan Talk, which is our weekly discussion of more philosophical type issues related to veganism and animal rights. We have dozens and dozens of previous episodes of Vegan Talk available in your podcast feeds just waiting for you to listen. We most certainly do. So our listener mailbag shows are really important to us because if you've not listened to many of our shows before, we are a collective. We are a collective. We're not ah people who profess to be experts. We're just regular folks coming together and chatting. And we're aware that other people will have views or have or have critique. We haven't considered so it's brilliant as just a group of regular people to to get all views as as many views as we can in and uh shows like this are really brilliant for doing exactly just that we get emails we get comments over instagram and other social media things and i believe our first uh one for today is from someone on the instagram is that correct anthony
00:02:32
Speaker
Indeed, it is from Steve on the gram. Big up, Steve. He contacted us, oh, I reckon when we were definitely when we'd done under 10 episodes back in late 2023. And he's been back in touch a few months ago. He says, hi, guys, a couple of news stories here that caught my eye. The first one, well, they're both from the BBC. The first one was about a Canadian marine park that was threatening to kill 30 Beluga Whales. Now we did feature that story in the Vegan Week show that was sort of ah relative to the time that Steve contacted us. So thank you Steve for putting us in touch with that one. You can go back listeners into October's Vegan Week shows to listen to that one in more detail.
00:03:22
Speaker
The second one he sent us however was not necessarily a sort of timely news show. It was more of a general sort trend again from the BBC. We didn't feature it on a Vegan Week show because it was sort of a general story. However, this is the perfect space for it. So the headline is children could kill with catapults, farmers warn. And it's a big story on the BBC website talking about the fact that catapults, which I don't know whether all listeners will know what a catapult is. It's basically a sort of handheld device. Traditionally, it would have been a Y-shaped stick. and um And in Britain, we used to have a comic called The Beano. In fact, I think we probably still do. And there was a character called Dennis the Menace, who was this young tyrant who would have his catapult and he would be pinging things with it, a sort of Y-shaped stick. And between the two bits at the top of the Y, there'd be some elastic or something like that that would ping a bat.
00:04:21
Speaker
I don't know, a stone or something like that. And it's, I don't know, seems like quite ah a wholesome way of causing havoc. Shane's looking confused. So ah in in the US, we'd call that a slingshot. Slingshot.
Social Media and Advocacy Strategies
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah, because when I think of catapult, I think of like a big medieval war. A big trebuchet. Yeah, yeah. Yes. As far as I'm aware, it under 18s in the UK aren't en masse using trebuchets. But maybe that's another think piece that Steve might find for us on the BBC's website. But... This one is talking about catapults or yes, slingshots as they might be known in other parts of the world. And basically the sort of serious and sad part of this is um that they have been used not just against people. There's a rather sad story about ah a young man who was attacked with a a catapult. but also wildlife and indeed animals that are held captive in animal agriculture. Both both horrible in different ways, you know, preying on wildlife. That's that's horrible, isn't it?
00:05:22
Speaker
yeah Using the animals that are in animal ag as sort of sitting ducks. seems almost a a bit more, I don't know, sadist or or something like that, but horrible stuff. Steve draws attention to the fact that there's an interesting paragraph in this article that claimed social media companies say that they do not allow animal abuse, cruelty, neglect, or other forms of animal exploitation and remove content that causes distress or harm to animals. The article was basically saying some people have have videoed themselves firing these catapults at animals and and they're posting it on social media. The social media companies are saying, no, no, no, we wouldn't allow anything like that. But Steve points out that this is clearly rubbish considering the massive volume of videos showing hunting, fishing, quote, processing of carcasses, zoos, horse riding, etc. And he mentions that the article also mentions angling, which, of course, is ah another very upsetting form of animal exploitation. You've got fish being asphyxiated. So thank you for sending that story in, Steve. And we've put a link for listeners in the show notes. is a double-edged sword the uh censoring of social media isn't it because certainly people from ah standpoint of wanting to show um how bad things are for animals in certain situations have had
00:06:53
Speaker
their campaigning cut down, haven't they? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Shane, I wonder if you have a similar perspective to me. I often have an initial reaction when I see things like this.
00:07:05
Speaker
I almost feel an anger that people are focusing on this rather than... the I mean, that's not to downplay the poor animals that are subject to catapult or slingshot attacks, but it it pales into a insignificance compared to what's happening in animal ag. But...
00:07:22
Speaker
there's still there's still an angle for us to take isn't there as vegans I suppose yeah I mean I think there's some value in calling it out first of all you can report it like if on Facebook I know they have a reporting mechanism I will say I've reported things and then I'll get a response that says no we've investigated this you know 30 seconds later they've investigated it and that's fine I don't advocate for getting in arguments on social media I think that's a waste of time But if you can comment on something and then walk away and just ignore responses that you're going to get, then, and and I've learned to do that.
00:07:57
Speaker
I always say something like, you know, this is animal abuse or animals are not entertainment. And, Even though that may have no effect. I know that if I see something like, I don't know, horse riding or something, or one time I, I, there's a, I was on TikTok and there was this woman who's ah um trying to sell eyelashes and she was putting them on her cat. And I was like, oh my God. And I just commented, this is animal abuse. And you know, then she blocked me. But you know what, everybody who likes that post, I get a, it likes my comment. I get a notification. They like that comment. And for months and months and months, I've been getting notifications. So I feel like when people look at the comments and they maybe see somebody say, this is animal abuse, then I know when I see that I feel supported. So maybe it also makes them feel supported. Like, Oh, okay. I I'm thinking this is wrong. And yeah, other people agree with me too. But again, you got to just make the comment and walk away. You don't,
00:08:49
Speaker
Don't waste your time getting into an argument that's not going to change anybody's mind on social media. I think you're absolutely right, Shane, in terms of like the power it has for those watching. um I mentioned in a news show that we did a few weeks ago that um a lot of my local communities, Facebook groups, the villages and stuff, that the one that I live in and the one I used to live in are both very rural. And there's a lot of hunt chats going on at the moment with people. trail hunting being about to be banned, hopefully, in the UK. And I've got to be honest, I don't have the balls to to comment on it. I don't feel safe enough or that ah that I want to engage with that. But there is somebody in the small village that I used to live in who will go out there. And despite 10 comments of people saying, oh, great to see the hunt out, he will say, no, it's not.
00:09:39
Speaker
it's It's awful. It's terrible, blah, blah, blah. And I love seeing his stuff in there and I'll like it, you know, but I don't feel like I can do anything more. it and then, right. i agree 100%. So he feels supported and then, you know, that's your little of... That's should, shouldn't I? You could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the fact that...
00:09:56
Speaker
we done We've done bigger ah podcasts ah on Flaffle before about looking after our mental health, looking after our well-being. And if there's one thing that's guaranteed to attack your mental health, it's the comments. any social media section, it comes to animal lives. So I do think it's a good thing to contribute in a positive way. If there was one thing to cut out to look after your mental wellness, I would say commenting on a load of people who are frothing at the bit with their very, very, very firm opinions on social media.
Vegan Arguments and Effective Communication
00:10:34
Speaker
Keyboard warriors, that's where people are feeling they're most confident, isn't it? So I think that
00:10:39
Speaker
ah It is a good thing. And again, I, like you were saying, Shane, I do sometimes like comment and then walk away, think, well, I don't need to get into this cycle of like, but please see my point of view. Just being like the person you describe at me and being a positive view, that in itself is a good thing, but really understandable. We could do other things if that isn't something with which we're able to engage with.
00:11:06
Speaker
There's plenty of other positive things we can do. But I love that that thought of you you're almost just dropping a grenade and walking off, aren't you? And and just saying, right, I'm putting this in. And and I would, for me, if I feel like I can try to bring that into my activism or or routine or whatever, It has to be a rule like comment and then don't go back, never go back because that's, that could be a ah vortex of despair. Of course, it could be wonderful opportunities. You might find someone else who replies and says, oh, I agree.
00:11:39
Speaker
Or someone that says, oh, you've changed my mind. But, The chances are that won't happen publicly. So so having that rule of of don't go back and revisit it might might be quite a safe one. And if somebody's comment is something like, mmm, bacon, which is often the case, isn't it? Like that that level. Then all the people who think that's hilarious are just going to think it's hilarious.
00:12:00
Speaker
And actually, there will be people who see your positive comment that you've left and then walked away and then see the mmm, bacon. bacon. or do benefits to like you know strengthening our argument i think sometimes we could be all like the need to argue against these really stupid really like mean really unintelligent opinions but actually they're they're doing their own job of being like well you know if you're a reasonable person what side of the debate do you want to be on
00:12:33
Speaker
Okay, well thanks to Steve for that message. We have another one that kind of falls in line with what we were just talking about, and this is from a listener who would prefer to remain anonymous. And he or she writes, Hi guys, I'd be interested to hear if you have any bulletproof arguments in favor of veganism.
00:12:50
Speaker
So often i get flustered on the spot and I'm frustrated that I'm not doing my life choices or the animals justice by my poor choice of words. Obviously, ideally, we'd all give different responses in different situations, but I feel like a basic retort to the most objections or why questions would be a helpful starting point. I think we've got to go to Dominic for put poor people with a poor choice of words worried about that. that We've got to go to the poet, surely.
00:13:19
Speaker
You know what? I'm a person who, you know, like so many of us, ah um um i'm I'm now at a stage where I'm 46. When I was in my 20s, I had such social anxiety and that's what led me into writing poetry. And Anthony's been kind enough to share my vegan poetry on previous shows. And even if you're not a poet, I think going and crafting your own response, your own words that are right for you and then having them locked, loaded, ready to get out. I think it's a really helpful thing that certainly, and I was writing a poem, you know, my poem, The Myth of Protein, it's because so many people have been really negative and come out with really ill-informed, ignorant attitudes. Well, where do you get your protein? And I had been left speechless and unprepared and like, oh, that that surely should have been an easy win for me, an easy win for veganism, but I didn't have myself prepared. So I just went away and wrote my own response. So, um yeah, if someone asks, where do you get your protein? Play them my myth of protein.
00:14:28
Speaker
Or, like I say, you know, take the attitude I took and just, you know, pick it is good, you know, just thinking, well, this is something I know I get asked, so I am going to prepare my reply. And mind the replies I give will be different depending on different situations. Like, for example, the reply I give if we're sat... at a dinner table where people are currently eating meat dishes. Let's say I've been asked out on a work stew where I've got no control over that. The kind of confrontation I give to people who are in the middle of a meal is different to what I would give if we were walking down the street. Well, I can just relate to this, this, the person who wrote in, because I'm like that I get, I'm not good at speaking extemporaneously. And I get flustered when I'm put in um like a confrontational situation. So I would just say to the person that first of all, just i just take the pressure off.
00:15:23
Speaker
Okay. You can just take your cue from other social justice movements who've just taken the stance of, you know, it's not my job to educate you. So, you know, As a vegan, it's not your job to educate meat eaters, and you do not ever, ever have to justify your choice not to eat vegan anymore. So maybe just taking a little bit of the pressure off, like, you know, I have to be this model vegan, or I have to say the right thing for to to represent veganism might help take the pressure off.
00:15:52
Speaker
Then I will also say that, I don't know, 90 to 98% of people who ask me why I'm vegan are not really interested in why I'm vegan. Maybe they're just curious or they just say it because they don't know, they weren't expecting me to say that.
00:16:10
Speaker
And so here's my general response that I think you could take and it would be easy for you to remember in the moment. And this is not original to me. I either read it somewhere or i heard it um somewhere, but this is what I say when someone says to me, when I say I'm vegan, they say, Oh, why? And I just say, i learned about the cruelty inflicted on animals we eat.
00:16:30
Speaker
And I decided I don't want to be part of that cruelty. That's it. I learned about the cruelty inflicted on animals we eat, and I don't want to be part of that cruelty.
Educational Insights on Industry Cruelty
00:16:39
Speaker
And most of the time, there's not a whole lot people are going to say in response to that. um You know, what are they going to say? There's not cruelty? Yeah, maybe. But, you know, most likely they're going to say something like, oh, well, where do you get your protein? And if you don't have Dominic's poem ready, I just say something like plants have protein.
00:16:59
Speaker
Where do you get your Right. You know, like, let's have a conversation. Okay, plants have protein, where do you get your fiber? Because plants do have protein. And it's hard to memorize a whole list of all the protein values in every plant. But you can just say plants have protein, where do you get your fiber? You know, and then if they're like, well, plants have protein, say, well, what do you think cows and gorillas and elephants eat?
00:17:18
Speaker
Now, if you really, if you start having this conversation and you get the sense that this is one of those 2% of people that are actually interested in what you're talking about, maybe they sincerely ask you about the cruelty or they seem open to a conversation, then this is a time then where you can do some education. And so this is where you could have...
00:17:38
Speaker
Maybe one or two industries that you could mention if you want to talk about cruelty. I think the dairy industry is ah really easy to talk about because you can talk about how the babies are taken away from the mothers, how the cows are forcibly impregnated, how you know male calle calves are turned into veal. you That's interesting.
00:17:54
Speaker
That's something that I think is easy to talk about. You don't have to memorize statistics, anything like that. You can also talk about like broiler chickens. That's something that I think most everybody eats chicken. So you can talk about how the chicks are dying at like six weeks old. They're still babies, how they've been bred so that they're, you know, since people prize the breast meat, that their breasts are too heavy for their body, that they're in constant pain. So those are real easy things I think that you can bring up if you get to a conversation with somebody who actually cares. that Those are my suggestions.
00:18:23
Speaker
Definitely. I'm going to add to that. and My additions aren't as good as Shane's. What Shane has just said is absolutely fantastic. I know sometimes i felt that any confrontation feels like it's going to go downhill. So if in doubt, I'm just positive, just positive. Someone's like, oh, why are you vegan? scott I really love it.
00:18:44
Speaker
And that is a surprising reaction because people are expecting they're picking a sore. They're going to like rile you. and And I just speak in really positive terms. And, you know, if they're like, oh, but isn't it unhealthy? Do you like lack protein? or I'm sorry.
00:19:01
Speaker
Well, no. Yeah, there's loads of healthy vegans, isn't there? Just really short, really positive answers. And if I do say anything confrontational and I'm talking, I'll say this is the response to everyone saying it's a really really really likely to result in a massive argument and I don't have the energy for that I might just say in it in a kind tone of voice well you know we know how bad animal suffering is don't we so try and word it in a way that I'm like including them even if they go like um no no it isn't though it isn't I'm like no but it is you know just like in a really like trying to
00:19:38
Speaker
Word it like we're all in agreement and be a bit manipulative. But you don't even have to argue. You can just say, well, I learned about the cruelty and I i don't want to be part of it. And so then it's just saying, well, I'm not, look because I think a lot of times people are upset because they feel like you're judging them.
00:19:54
Speaker
or they start to have this internal um bad feeling about what they're doing. And so then you just say, well, I learned about it. Like, I don't need to educate you about this. I learned about it and I don't want to be part of that. I mean, and then of course, an implication is you seem like you do want to be part of it, but that's for them to work out. Absolutely. I'd i'd like to contribute two things um to this. I think it's a great question question from this listener. My first is, um I think very often we think when we're having a conversation or when somebody ah says something or fires something at us, that it's the start of like a tennis rally and that we need to hit the ball back as it's coming to us. Like we need to take a quick swipe and we need to We need to hit it back at exactly the right time and get it over. And when i've when I've swung and missed or swung and sort of clicked it and it's sort of dribbled back towards the net in in the past, that's that's how it's felt because I felt pressured. But to continue that tennis ball analogy, you could just let the ball fly past you and then calmly walk over, pick it up, have a think.
00:20:58
Speaker
and then hit it back. um And to kind of translate that into human conversation needs, your response doesn't have to be at the same pace or immediately from the person who's asking it. You could take a breath And just think and say, hmm, that's an interesting question. Whether the question is why you vegan or where do you get your protein or, well, why is greyhound racing cruel? Or one that flustered me in my first few months of being vegan was, well, what's wrong with honey?
00:21:29
Speaker
And at the time I didn't know. That was the truth. I didn't know what was wrong with honey, but I had this gut instinct and this general umbrella term of of veganism that told me not to consume honey, but I didn't really know why. And my response in the end was a kind of fumbled, well, we didn't really ask permission from the bees, did we? Which got laughed at.
00:21:51
Speaker
And partly, ah well, wholly, I think that's because of my delivery, because I'd felt flustered into giving a quick response. Whereas I think if I felt confident enough to take a breath and go, that's an interesting question. I probably used to think that too. Maybe I still do think, well, what's, what's wrong with honey?
00:22:09
Speaker
So I think taking a breath and taking your time is the first thing. The second thing that I think covers a lot of veganism and animal rights is one of presumption. So what I like about living as a vegan is I'm not presuming that any animal is okay alone.
00:22:28
Speaker
with my use of them and their bodies and their lives. So I might think, well, that horse looks fine with that person riding on it looks like they're enjoying themselves, stretching their legs.
00:22:41
Speaker
Oh, it looks like that sheep is actually quite overgrown and it's probably quite grateful that I'm taking the, or that person's taking the wool off it. They're all based on presumptions because we don't have a a shared intricate language where there are some bits of language we can share in terms of body language and noises and things, but a lot of it is would still be based on assumption. So by being vegan, I'm not making assumptions in the same way that I might see a patch of land that's sort of near someone else's house. And I might think, well, I'm going to build myself a nice little garden there without asking the person who also seems to live nearby, whether they mind. And I might just say, well, it's not affecting you. And I'm deciding on that person's behalf. I realize I'm i'm i'm very painstakingly covering what the word assumption means here, but I think that's what veganism doesn't do. And you could say, well, we're making assumptions that plants don't mind and what have you.
00:23:37
Speaker
Fine, okay, we can talk about central nervous systems and things. But I think for me, a lot of veganism boils boils down to not making assumptions on what an animal is okay with or not. And so I've been living trying to not make those assumptions and I seem to be okay.
00:23:55
Speaker
I've not keeled over or died or what have you. So for me, our listener asks, you know do you have ah a bulletproof response or a response that you give most of the time? I think
Positive Impact and Confrontation Responses
00:24:06
Speaker
if and when I am questioned on these things, that's quite a nice way of framing it. But I also really like Dominic and Shane's too. And I guess all of our listeners will have different ones too, but Yes, thank you for the question, listener. That's a nice one.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah, final thing I'd say to that listener as well. Don't beat yourself too much. You know, being vegan, you're doing a fantastic thing. You're not doing the animals a disservice. You're not doing yourselves a disservice. I'd like to link back to the... ah comment from Steve on on Instagram about like, ah you know, we were discussing how effective is it to get in the comment session where you can transfer all of that. um Well, how effective is it sometimes not to be negative, but if you give the perfect response, to an ardent meat eater, it still might be like boinging off bulletproof armour, you know. If you give the most articulate, best words ever, they could choose not to hear. And what you are doing is you are being vegan. So whatever you do or don't say, you are doing a really brilliant thing. So well done you for that.
00:25:11
Speaker
All right, we'll move on to another listener. We've got a message from Kim. Hello, Kim. Cheers for getting in touch with us, Kim. Kim has said, a question for your next listener, mailbag episode. What is the worst non-vegan gift? that you have ever been gifted? ah that is a question. That is question. We've got Shane contributed from the US think maybe the US s and the UK are quite similar in this regard, but there's such a culture of manners. There's such a, you know, this sort of cliche of like, oh, don't rock the boat, don't rock the boat. And yeah, i have certainly been given presents that are made of, wool or made of leather and this kind of links into the previous question I'll be honest with you I'll be honest when I've been given a gift that's been well intended it hasn't been sent as some kind of you know passive aggressive dig at my stance it's just you know
00:26:19
Speaker
I usually haven't flagged. Oh, well, actually, I wouldn't wear this jumper. I've just like, you know, taken it to the charity shop. Depending on the person, maybe sometime afterwards, I might have had a conversation. Maybe I haven't. I haven't like unwrapped a woolen jumper and gone, what is this monstrosity? How dare ah you confront me with such an abomination? I haven't said that. I haven't said that. What about you, Anthony? What non-vegan gifts have you been on the receiving end of?
00:26:53
Speaker
um My wife got some woolly socks from someone this Christmas who that they they know that she's vegan, um but they kind of overlook that. But and neither neither of us have ever received anything like,
00:27:09
Speaker
horrific I think the worst situation I can imagine though, or remember, sorry, comes back to what you were saying, Dominic, about kind of politeness and social awkwardness, which was when I was ah a primary school teacher and I had a year six class. So they're age 10, 11. And i had.
00:27:27
Speaker
told them that I was vegan. And at Christmas time, you you know, you often get ah gifts as ah a teacher in in a school in in the UK at Christmas time. And about two thirds of the children whose families had got me a gift had got me something vegan.
00:27:45
Speaker
and about a third didn't. And I think that was just because it's a last minute, oh, quick, it's the last day of term, get your teacher, look, give him that chocolate bar or what have you. And I would have erred on the side of Dominic and and said something along the lines of,
00:28:00
Speaker
Thank you. i'm I'm really touched that you've chosen to get me a gift. That makes me feel really happy. Thank you. That will be enjoyed. I tend to use a passive voice. If somebody gives me something, I will say that will be enjoyed very much because I'll give it to someone who who will enjoy it.
00:28:17
Speaker
I won't eat it or use it myself. But there were children in the class. No, it's all children. I knew there was a story. Like I would have been 10 or 11 and go, Mr.
00:28:30
Speaker
He doesn't have chocolate. He doesn't have anything. And that the look on these poor children who, you know, that that they were just trying. And so i it's weird, but but me being me, I just kind of said, no no no no, no, no,
Handling Non-Vegan Gifts and Holiday Etiquette
00:28:45
Speaker
it's fine. It's fine. That's fine. That's a lovely gift. And i'm I'm really grateful that you've... that you've given me that it's it's fine so yeah i mean i will say i'm most inspired like i i'm sure julie and richard have both given examples of where they've been given gifts and and they've sort of refused them in in a friendly way in a polite way and used it as an opportunity to advocate i i've i've very rarely if ever felt comfortable doing that but that we've all of us have got our own sensibilities and what have you what about you shane I'm just still feeling so bad for those poor little children. i know oh i know. I think it's wonderful that you, ah that two thirds of your gifts were vegan though. That's, that's amazing.
00:29:28
Speaker
um I've never really been given anything, you know, horrific or or terrible. I mean, I had a neighbor who they moved in and it was like Chinese new year. Um, and they brought me, um, I'm not Chinese, but they are, they, they brought me, uh, like a little gift basket. And, um, there were apples and things, but then I think there were a few items that maybe had like milk in it. And so, um, you know, I just tossed those out, but I said, thank you. And then my brother, a couple of years ago, he's, he lives in Michigan and he brought me some, um, local Michigan honey, but I think he just didn't understand that honey wasn't vegan. I don't think he was trying. So, you know, I just said, thank you. And, you know, he had carried it all the way from Michigan here. So it's the thought that counts.
00:30:10
Speaker
It can sometimes be a really nice opportunity to advocate on behalf of animals or just the phenomenon of veganism to repurpose a gift. So when Alex and I moved into our house um a few months ago, it was a new house. And so the the the the builders gave a a hamper of of things to everyone moving in. and Which I'd rather they hadn't. I'd rather we just paid them a bit less money for our house. But anyway, one of the 10 things in there was vegan. Everything else contained some form of animal exploitation. But it was a really nice opportunity, A, for us to get to know our neighbours because it gave us a reason to knock on their door. and say, hi, we're Anthony and Alex. We've moved in next door or at number whatever. we We're both vegan, so we don't use animal products, but the builders have given this hamper and we wondered if you wanted a couple of these things. Now you could say, well, that's that's soliciting animal exploitation or what have you.
00:31:07
Speaker
But it's it's a good way of us both getting the fact that we're vegan into the conversation early on. A, so that they don't accidentally buy us a Christmas present in a few weeks time that contains an animal product. But it gets it out there that, oh, two of your neighbours are vegan.
00:31:21
Speaker
Oh, that's interesting, isn't it? Maybe you wouldn't think that in a rural Shropshire village or what have you. So I think it can be a nice way of saying, oh, look, I'm vegan. And this is a very nice, friendly way of me telling you that. Though you do fall into the trap of the how do you know if someone is vegan, they'll tell you. um Well, these same neighbors who had given me that basket when they first moved in, just, um I don't know, like six months ago, they had remodeled their um house and invited all the neighbors to come over for like a little luncheon. So at that point, then I did say, well, I just want you to know that I'm vegan, you know, because...
00:31:57
Speaker
and You don't want to go to somebody's house and then they're having you for a lunch and then you say, oh, I can't eat anything. So especially in their culture, I know that it's very rude to refuse food. And they said, oh, oh, no thank you for letting me know. That's no problem. They had so many vegan options that there was no way I could possibly eat them all. And they then they were like, hey, take this home with you. And um so, you know, that they were very, very accommodating and understanding. And now they know.
00:32:25
Speaker
And we we speak often on this podcast about how we are a collective of just a group of folks. We're not professing to be experts on anything, including social etiquette. In fact, I will go as far as I'm probably the worst person to ask about any form of correct social etiquette. So we're certainly not saying, we yeah are the committee of vegans who say that if get given a war jumper, you must do this. We're just saying our own. personal reactions as individuals. And as Anthony mentioned, we've got other contributors to this, like Mark and Julie, who whose reactions would be very different to ours. So yeah, it's an interesting one. It's an interesting
Listener Contributions and Closing Remarks
00:33:07
Speaker
one. I think we've got one more readout, haven't we? We've got someone, we've got one from Daisy. Have you got that one there, Shae? So Daisy writes, Dear Anthony and the EOTF team, Just wanted to say thank you for all your hard work on the podcast this year. I've really enjoyed listening.
00:33:28
Speaker
Particularly enjoyed the Christmas message episode released today. And thank you for all the Christmas gift ideas. I was waiting to hear if there would be a way to send the podcast a Christmas gift, but you didn't mention it. So please could you let us know what would be the best way to contribute a small gift, maybe a donation for some new podcast equipment or Zencaster subscription.
00:33:50
Speaker
Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. So I'm going to give that over to Anthony to answer. Yes, indeed. And thank you, Daisy, for that message. And thank you, everyone that tuned into that ah lovely Christmas message episode back in December. So thank you for the sentiment, Daisy, for for contributing ah a small gift to the podcast. Our running costs are very, very low. They're even lower now because I've managed to find a way of reducing that subscription cost quite significantly without getting into too much detail. And so basically what what we're going to do is between us recording this episode now and this episode being published, a few of us are having a bit of an online get together just to decide a few things about the podcast in the next 12 months and what have you. So I'm going to put that to the team. And by the time this episode comes out, there will be some details in the show notes of how and where and whether you can give a small ah gift. and Obviously, any listeners are welcome to do so and we'll make sure it's for for a good cause. But just to stress that it's certainly not ah a prerequisite for anyone listening. Like we're we're all very happy. happy doing what we do and we don't do it for any sort of financial contingency or any anything like that. So um that's a lovely thought and we'll we'll put some we'll put some attention to it and get back to you by the time this episode is published. I hope that's not too woolly an answer, Daisy. and listeners. But yes, we very much appreciated the message. I especially appreciated your message because it it came out just a couple days before Christmas, which was a lovely time to receive that sentiment. So thank you for that one. Yeah, thank you indeed. And thank you, Anthony, for that reaction. Thank you, Shane, for your contributions. And big thank you all the listeners for listening. It's brilliant whenever anybody shares their opinions or questions or any reason they want to get in touch with us. So ah we're going to let you know how you can do exactly that if you would like to get in touch.
00:36:02
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:36:22
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Well, thank you, Anthony, and thank you, Shane. ah We do love a review, and we love a comment, and we love a share. So if you feel like doing any or all of those things, please do.
00:36:41
Speaker
Indeed. Now, the next one of our shows will be coming out on Monday, the 9th of February. That will be with myself and Mark and the OG podfather, Richard. He's making a guest appearance. We're going to be covering the last seven days worth of vegan. and animal rights news. So tune into that one. And if you haven't been listening over January, I just want to point out over January, we released all of our going vegan episodes. So there's kind of 18 bonus episodes that we did release them in 2024 and 2025, but um they were so good. We've re-released them in Veganuary. So lots of people's individual stories of going vegan and and all of that is there for you to enjoy.
00:37:23
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Anthony and Dominic for all your contributions, and thanks again to everyone for listening. This is Shane, and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:37:41
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:37:55
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:38:22
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and, of course,
00:38:43
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:38:57
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.