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246- Roasted chicken; with thyme, paprika & chlorine...
130 Plays21 days ago
Sounds appetising, right?! Many major UK supermarkets have stated this week that they'll never stock chlorinated chicken...others stay ominously silent. But does this news change anything for animals? And how can we use this story to better advocate on behalf of animals? As well as looking at this story, Richard, Mark & Ant dissect eight bits of news from the last 7 days in the vegan & animal rights space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
To help us keep improving the show, you can head over to https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL and make a small financial contribution towards our running costs. Only if you want to and can afford it of course ;)
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This week's stories:
https://www.fox6now.com/news/animal-rights-group-sues-ridglan-farms-seeking-legal-rights-beagles
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2026/01/27/protest-in-antwerp-against-cat-torture-networks-in-china/ (very upsetting details FYI)
https://www.farminguk.com/news/only-four-retailers-rule-out-chlorinated-chicken-as-shoppers-demand-clarity_67955.html
https://www.alliancemagazine.org/blog/india-launches-first-ever-animal-welfare-fund/
https://www.frontiersin.org/news/2026/02/03/cats-isotopic-fingerprint-fur-vegan
https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2026/01/oregon-animal-rights-initiative-aims-to-ban-hunting-fishing-slaughtering-of-livestock.html
https://www.drishani.com/books
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy82lk40wpo
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/is-livestock-farming-profitable-meat-income-environment/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Mark, Richard & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts' Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, if you're on the hunt for vegan and animal rights news, stop looking, you're in the right place. We're the Vegan News people, we're Enough of the Falafel and we've been doing this for the best part of three years now. Who is we? Well it's me, Anthony, it's Richard and it's Mark this week. We change our lineup each week just to keep things fresh but that's enough of the falafel.
00:00:21
Speaker
Let's get on with things and hear what's been going on in the news. So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Take your flat grown meat elsewhere.
00:00:35
Speaker
We're not doing that in the state of Florida. Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry. True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are.
00:00:46
Speaker
That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with things. What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice.
00:00:59
Speaker
As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:08
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city.
News Show Introduction and Weekly Highlights
00:01:10
Speaker
I don't have laser vision. everyone, you're listening to Mark. Welcome to the show and thank you for being here. Hello everyone, my name's Richard and what you're listening is our news show where we look through vegan and animal-dried news from the last week or so. But that's enough of the falafel, let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:32
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
Ridgeland Farms and Beagle Rights: Legal and Activist Actions
00:01:44
Speaker
Okay, we are starting off our news wrap in the US of A. I was listening to the very excellent Our Hen House podcast this week. They release three shows each week, all vegan and animal rights focused, and they do have quite a strong legal focus on a lot of their work. And it's a good job too, because it's something that I struggle with quite a lot. I listened to a great interview with Wayne Shung from Direct Action Everywhere and lots of other open rescue schemes. And that is what our first story is coming from. We reported back in July last year, 2025, that prosecutors in America agreed not to file criminal charges if Ridgeland Farms surrendered its breeding license by July the 1st and sold off its current stock of dogs. Yes, Ridgeland Farms, if you've forgotten, or this is the first time you've heard this, They breed beagles who then have experiments performed on them. Completely unnecessary. Lots of evidence pointing that this industry does not need to happen.
00:02:57
Speaker
But as I've said, really positive story in that they've said, no, you're you're not allowed to do this anymore. And you've got this lead time. However, however,
00:03:09
Speaker
this organization of animal rights activists are now suing Ridgeland Farms, basically saying that's not quickly enough. You need to rescue these dogs now. And what's interesting, Mark, is that they're doing so using habeas corpus. So they they're using basically the the same rights that a ah human would have to argue their case. It's ambitious. What your thoughts on it? Is it is it pie in the sky? that They're normally quite pragmatic.
00:03:38
Speaker
these sorts of rescues. So what seems to be happening here is that so original forums came ah on under the spotlight from animal rights activists for ah cruelly, cruelly treating their stock as they would see it, their property, i.e.
00:03:53
Speaker
their beagles. And they were they were ordered to close down and they have to close down by, I think, June or July of this year. So there're they're sort of getting it from both angles. They're getting legal prosecution from this group who want adults to be recognized as legal persons. And they're also coming under fire from direct action everywhere who want to move in straight away and are organizing to do so, to do a mass open rescue much sooner than the June or July date.
00:04:22
Speaker
So direct action everywhere wants to go in immediately and take all the beagles out of there and rehouse them before the June or July date when they have to be rehoused anyway. And the legal prosecution is saying that these these dogs should be recognised as persons, which is a thing that's happened over here with grade eight. So in in New Zealand, About four or five years ago, and great apes were granted ah legal personhood to stop any um animal experiments from happening against them. So it's no more legal to experiment on a great ape in this country here in New Zealand than it is a human.
Animal Personhood and Legal Status Debate
00:05:03
Speaker
Rivers and mountains also have personhood status here as well. So the Whanganui River, which is near where I live, which is a massive long river that stretches for about 200 kilometers down through the top of the North Island, is legally a person.
00:05:18
Speaker
So if you technically, if you abuse that river, then you are legally abusing a person. It doesn't stop the dairy industry from polluting this industry. I mean, sorry, this this ah this river. So ah in in practical terms, I'm not sure what it's actually achieving. But the theory behind it is that and humans...
00:05:41
Speaker
aren't only the the only legal people in law. So things like mountains and rivers and non-human animals like great apes have the same rights in law as humans do in this country. And that's what they're trying to do. That's that's what the legal side of this attack against original forms is trying to establish, that beagles have legal personhood.
00:06:03
Speaker
what ah Direct Action Everywhere are saying that even though the original forums are meant to close down by June or July within the next sort four or five months, that isn't soon enough. They are still being held against their will in essentially solitary confinement and they want to move in and are organizing to do so with students at the University of Wisconsin, I believe, to do a mass open rescue, which would be technically illegal.
00:06:30
Speaker
But it's the sort of thing that Direct Action Everywhere are are famous for, where they and go in ah and remove animals from places of abuse and then challenge the courts to prosecute them. And frequently, but not always, as in the case of Zoe Rosenberg recently, jury sides with Direct Action Everywhere and ah allow them to get off from the prosecution that they would otherwise suffer from, i.e. burglary or murder.
Innovative Activism in Animal Rights
00:06:56
Speaker
or theft so original farms are getting it from both sides thankfully they have over 2 000 dogs that they have basically captured in this building direct action everywhere i say that the the june or july date for them to be free isn't soon enough and they want to go in straight away so original farms are on their last legs whether direct action everywhere get their way and do a mass trespass and take i.e steal legally all all these animals or whether they or whether the legal side of it takes takes more precedence and the dogs are given the status of personhood and therefore set free on the basis of that. The future will sort of see. but and So original forms are on their way out. I think it leaves one mass breeding centre in the United States of dogs left, one or two left. So we we sort of see a similar thing happening with the NBR beagles.
00:07:48
Speaker
over here, which are an American-owned company, if you like. Vivisection and animal experimentation has never been on under the spotlight like this for a couple of decades. In the 1970s and 80s, there was huge pressure on that industry. It dissipated due to massive police surveillance and court suppression and activists getting sent to prison for years and years. it It's resurfaced again.
00:08:11
Speaker
And it's great to see that happening. And original farms either way will will be gone by summer at the latest. Absolutely. And like you said, there is still a couple of other breeders, one of which is significantly bigger, I'm i'm sorry to say.
00:08:26
Speaker
but But the real cutting edge techniques of of activism and campaigning that's being used here, I think is really exciting. And just from a social justice point of view, you know, that's what...
00:08:40
Speaker
we need a world where beings who are being abused and exploited in this horrible way. I mean, these dogs are having experiments performed on them without anesthesia, painful experiments. You know, we we need, that's where we need the cutting edge, the the brave, clever minds. You know, that's where entrepreneurial brains need to be used, i I would argue, rather than, you know, for capitalist gain. So fantastic to see that. We had a similar case in Spain, I don't know if you remember, a few years back called Vivotecnia, a place where they do animal experiments with all kinds of animals.
00:09:16
Speaker
And unfortunately, the outcome was not very good. um There was an undercover investigation where they realized the appalling conditions in which these animals are kept alive. And it brought a lot of attention on the media and there was kind of big demonstrations. Unfortunately, apart from raising awareness, nothing really happened. I mean, theoretically, they got a big um fine for what they were doing, but nothing changed. But I think...
00:09:46
Speaker
In that case, at least people did realize, you know, what's going on behind the scenes, behind closed doors, which um Spain obviously is in a different place at the moment when it comes to animal experimentation, veganism and all this. But I think people were quite shocked of what happens behind doors.
India's Animal Welfare Fund and Corporate Responsibility
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's an ever evolving picture, isn't it? And and actually, perhaps the most important thing for activists is to continue to be pushing the envelope. So in Spain, that might look like a case where you lose quite significantly, but you're ah you're raising awareness nonetheless. In America, it seems like there's there's more progress at the moment, but still really cutting edge stuff. I mentioned the the use of entrepreneurs putting together things for social justice. That is what is happening in India in a roundabout way. We have done an episode where we've spoken. about open philanthropy and just generally the idea of very rich people giving their money towards animal rights. That's sort of what is happening here, though I'm going to be pedantic with my semantics um in that the headline says India launches its first animal welfare fund. It's to the tune of 140 million rupees. which is about one and a half million US dollars. So this is the Upadhyaya Foundation, a family philanthropy. The Poold Funds brings together a range of institutions, including the consultancy firm, an India animal fund, Mailer Foundation, the local network group, Caring Friends, and Coefficient Giving, which is a philanthropic advisory firm. and funders said that the initial financing would address funding gaps, so places where there really should be funding and there just simply isn't. And this article from Alliance Magazine reports that animal welfare has been chronically underfunded and accounts for just one and a half percent of India's corporate social responsible funding. It was announced just over a week ago as we record at the India Animal Welfare Forum in Mumbai, which is a forum convening together India's lawmakers, philanthropists, NGOs, and animal welfare experts.
00:12:10
Speaker
Richard, we could be skeptical of the term welfare as as vegans. However, if there's one and a half million US dollars just lying around,
00:12:23
Speaker
Sounds like it might incrementally improve outcomes for animals, even if it's not targeted at a longer term vegan message. Or am I being too harsh there? No, you're not at all being too harsh. I mean, when you see the total economy of India, 1.5 million is a drop in the ocean.
00:12:45
Speaker
It's really not very significant. And I'm a bit sceptical here because one of the things is, um if I remember correctly, every corporation nowadays needs to have, if it's public, what's called an ESG, environmental and social responsibility.
00:13:01
Speaker
Now, more than... I mean, despite the fact that it's very good news that they have this initiative and obviously people need to start doing these things just to raise awareness. I think it comes down to all those big investing corporations, call it BlackRock, call it Vanguard, all these, where really they should be putting the money where there's a very strong ESG policy for companies.
00:13:26
Speaker
And really not investing in the ones that do not provide a responsible path. Because at the end of the day, there's where the money is. And the money is like, okay, we think Microsoft will do well. Let's put money and people's pension funds and all this.
00:13:44
Speaker
So if if there was a shift in terms of investing from all these corporations, which at the end of the day, they they manage billions and even trillions of dollars and just saying, okay, which companies really adhere to and a proper ESG? and not funding the ones that underperform in in that those regards.
00:14:09
Speaker
But yes, it is good news, but I still see it in the ocean. Yeah, of course. However, that you know there might be cumulatively more drops in the ocean over time in that... this news article links to another story that happened just at the turn of the year reporting on india's highest court e the supreme court who ruled that corporate social responsibility must include protections for biodiversity and wild life which they're citing as a ah huge legal intervention. So it it it seems like the dial is turning more towards that. So perhaps we'll see more of these drops in the ocean add together. And um I mean, you know, we've been skeptical here about, well, That amount of money is not huge in the in the scheme of things. And if, you know, some of it is going towards animal welfare, prioritising animal welfare policy, which, yeah, it's improving outcomes for for some animals now. But, I mean, some of it is is going towards human wildlife conflict and legal issues. That's what we've previously been talking about. So, you know, it could be going to cutting edge stuff that could really change the landscape. So,
00:15:18
Speaker
fingers crossed let's hope so our next story i will say i found particularly upsetting obviously all of our listeners will will have different sensibilities but yeah i feel inclined to give a bit of a warning for this one because it was some new hideousness that i had not heard of comes to us from the animal reader The headline, Protest in Antwerp against Cat Torture Networks in China. Antwerp, a Belgian city, there was protest a week ago, as we record, raising awareness about organised cat torture networks in China, organised by Antwerp.
00:15:56
Speaker
a group called feline guardians they call themselves an international animal rights group focused on stopping severe animal abuse and that is definitely what this is the details i will give a broad outline so these networks as in the abuse networks work like an online business so they use social media payment systems and private chat groups to grow their audience Some members even pay to watch live torture or request specific acts. I mean, the mind boggles as to what leads somebody to be in a position where that is something that interests them or is driving them as an outlet for their disposable income. Activists say China plays a central role because the country does not have a national animal cruelty law and this legal gap allows this kind of extreme abuse to continue with basically little risk of punishment. So, it i mean, it seems like, Mark, that the aim of this protest is to firstly raise awareness of it, because I imagine most people are not aware that these horrid things are going on, and to point to
00:17:07
Speaker
a way that that could be improved. It it seems like it's just a a big legal loophole in China that's allowing this to happen. Yeah, sure. So China has a very ah convoluted relationship with
China's Legal Loopholes and Animal Rights Protests
00:17:21
Speaker
non-human animals. The far left if if China can be can still be considered to be communist society. Communism, from my experience with it, from talking with Marxists and communists in Europe, they have never had any interest in animal rights. And and this reflects the situation in China where they would consider animal rights or the notion of struggling for that to be, at very best, a distraction from the class struggle and to be a joke.
00:17:47
Speaker
really so china has never had a national set of legislation prohibiting forms of animal abuse the way you might have in ah in other parts of the world in the uk or in ireland or or in the eu and so on i think it's got one law one vague law that prohibits uh certain acts against wildlife other than that really anything goes you know um So it is it it is it's a very disturbing thing to to to read about. I'd never imagined in my wildest dreams that people would be so cruel as to buy or to watch it live, watch
00:18:24
Speaker
cat torture live on their screens and ask for certain things to be done to these cats as it was happening. It reminds me actually, I remember growing up, I grew up in the 80s and 90s and there was a thing called crush videos where you could buy videos of and small animals like lizards and frogs being crushed underfoot by people's boots.
00:18:49
Speaker
And it was just did this odd sexual fetish type thing. the the The human mind is a very bizarre thing. I do remember reading once when I was looking into the anti-slavery movement in the UK back in the 19th century, when you had anti-slavery activists that would give speeches around Britain and explaining the the cruelties details of the cruelties that were meted out to slaves.
00:19:14
Speaker
And there was a regular, a tiny but regular section of the audience in the cities that they would go to, who they discovered were coming along to hear about these cruelties and getting off on it.
00:19:27
Speaker
Not to be appalled by it and to act against it, but they were getting a sexual buzz out of hearing about how badly people were being treated in the slave trade. So it's nothing new. I suppose. It is bizarre, obviously, ah particularly to people like us. But ah the reason it's happening in China is that China is technologically very advanced and sort of allows this thing to take place. And it is very poor or no laws that prohibit against it. And the general consensus in society is that concern towards animals is is bizarre.
00:19:59
Speaker
really. So it it is it is a very strange thing to be reading about. I think the the demonstration in Antwerp is designed to embarrass the Chinese on the public stage, to force them to do something about it, not on an animal rights sort of angle but on ah economic trade and a PR sort of thing. So if if that's how they go about it, if if if there's a bit of success from that, then brilliant. But it is very disturbing thing to read. And I can't imagine the mind of someone who would who would pave to to watch this sort of stuff and into and to consider it to be entertainment.
00:20:34
Speaker
and It just shows that we were work cut out for us, really. At the most extreme end of the spectrum, you you have this sort of behavior going on. To be honest, it's it's in essence, it's not dissimilar to badger baiting or to fox hunting in in some regards. So it's not like it's exclusive to the Chinese. It isn't the Chinese. it's It's an internet thing. So it's people from all around the world who are logging on to Chinese servers. China, as I say, has a convoluted relationship with ah veganism, vegetarianism and animal rights.
00:21:04
Speaker
Over 50% of all the the the meat analogs, the the vegan meat alternatives, sold on the planet or sold in China. Right. So half of that entire global business is in China. There is a big market for cruelty free produce.
00:21:22
Speaker
And when I was living in Oakland, there was a chain of shops called Blissful, which was exclusively Chinese run and Chinese products that they were selling with the head stickers that they stuck on in in English to explain the ingredients and which was vegetarian and vegan. But there is a strong Buddhist, Taoist and Confucianist element in Chinese society, some of which supports food.
Cultural Perspectives on Cats and Dietary Debates
00:21:44
Speaker
cruelty-free living. So in the same way as in India, you'd have the Ahimsa sort of movement, which is ah no harm. In Taoism and Buddhism, there is a ah strain of those religions that believe that you shouldn't cause any harm to any living being, in including animals. So there is a lot of people in China who are behind the the notions of animal rights. It just isn't very well organized. You have a one-party dictatorship, And it's Marxist, Leninist, Maoist, Xi Jinping thought, right? And it's all about the class struggle. And it's they very little concern about the environment or animals, particularly animal rights. So it's fantastic that there is this group, Feline Guardians, who, I mean, they're not just a ah little tin pot group. Like they've they've got this news covered on the BBC, right? Like, you know, they're they're doing really good work. And um it's, you know, that if you follow the link in the show notes, we will put a link to their website where you can take action. You can sign petitions. You can you can give them financial support. There are other ways you can advocate on on behalf of these animals. So it's, um yeah, that they're doing really good work against the stream there. Yeah, and it it is bizarre that that it's cats.
00:23:00
Speaker
I wonder if there's other animals that that are abused in a similar way. Cats have occupied ah many places in society throughout the world. In France, in the Middle Ages, there was cat burning festivals where they would round up hundreds of cats and put them into like a wicker man type of cage and set them alight. And it wasn't just a fringe interest. Royalty, kings and queens of France would go along to watch mass cat burnings. In Egypt, there they were considered to be semi-divine.
00:23:30
Speaker
So ah cats have had it in for them one way or the other for a long, long time. And I wonder if there's something particular in Chinese culture or in history that targets cats specifically the way they used to be in Europe.
00:23:43
Speaker
um i don't know I don't know much about Chinese society at all, so I'm just throwing out the speculations here. But it is it is um interesting that it's specific to cats here. Do ah do dogs suffer similar abuse or frogs or birds? you know it's it's It's weird, right? Indeed. And the mystery about cats continues with our next story from the scientific journal Frontiers. Are cats vegan meat eaters?
00:24:11
Speaker
There's an interesting headline. Study finds why isotopic fingerprint of cat fur could trick us into thinking that way.
00:24:22
Speaker
Richard's had his work cut out reading this one. My take of this, Richard, I'll be i'll be interested if we reach the same conclusion here, is that researchers have been looking at cat fur and it looks similar. there's that When you break it down, the tiny little isotopes and things like that, there are things that make it look like they're plant-based.
00:24:45
Speaker
They're obviously not in the but majority of cases, but it looks that way based on the tiny little molecules and things like that. Was that your understanding of this story? I had to read the story twice, if I'm honest, and I do not... Just twice? That's that's impressive. Yeah. I gave up by the third time, if I'm honest. No, obviously I do not have a PhD in biology.
00:25:09
Speaker
it's It's a bit like what my take was, are we trying to just find a definitive answer saying, yes, they're vegan, no, they're not vegan, by analysing and trying to find a black or white definition? And I was like...
00:25:23
Speaker
Well, in my experience, there's plant-based food for cats, which I buy, and my cats are extremely healthy. They're getting older, as me, but they're healthy. And I don't know if sometimes beyond the um academic interest of finding out an answer to a particular question... We lose the broader picture sometimes. And obviously, I'm i no biologist, but availability in nature would suggest that cats in nature, what they do is probably, you know, they hunt or they eat animals.
00:25:59
Speaker
But what strikes me, and maybe I'm deviating a bit from the news story, but if we are analyzing if they might be vegan or not, ah For me, the the main point we should start is, does it make sense for a cat the size, you know, not very big cat, to eat beef?
00:26:17
Speaker
Maybe we should answer these questions before, because usually when people feed their cats with non-vegan food, they usually... by big animals that they wouldn't hunt anyway so it for me it's like okay probably we should i mean i am happy about this study you know finding out that oh maybe they are not 100 of large carnivores but that's how ah our brain works right human brain it's like we we want to
00:26:49
Speaker
find definite categories for things that maybe are not black or white and um my cats are very healthy they eat ami benebo which are the the mainstream say vegan cat foods available and they're really healthy i mean that that's my take on it i don't know if anyone has any other thing yeah Well, I mean, that would always be my first point of advocacy on behalf of cats when confronted with somebody or somebodies who think that cats are this phrase, obligate carnivores, and so they should be fed the carcasses of other dead animals would be to point to the many cats that I know you
00:27:35
Speaker
that follow a plant-based diet and seem to be happy and healthy and it's fine. I wouldn't lead in with this study that said, well, did you know that actually the isotopes of fur do make it look like they're plant-based eaters, even though actually, you know, naturally they do seem to be carnivores. However, It it is a a fringe bit of evidence that adds to, i wouldn't say the confusion, it just dispels the seemingly universally held thought that they have to eat meat.
00:28:08
Speaker
You know, it's it's just another thing that you can throw in there, but it wouldn't be top of my list to... um to to put I mean, I'm interested as to why this study has happened. I'm i'm assuming that either there's there's somebody who's vegan holding the purse strings of a an institute that does does testing on these things, or it's just something that's incidentally been found and they've they've looked at these...
00:28:37
Speaker
He's looked at these isotope levels and gone, hmm, that's interesting. That's really... that That makes it look like they're vegan or vegetarian or something. i wasn't expecting that. And it happens to have just been turned into a headline. But, yeah, it's a niche one. And, and you know, these...
00:28:57
Speaker
These things always start off as niche, don't they? Sort of incidental things, and then we can choose where to put the emphasis on them ourselves, can't we? But yes, you don't have to feed cats dead animals, people. Important point to make. Let's stress that.
00:29:14
Speaker
We haven't reported any stories from Farming UK this week. Let's put that right now.
Chlorinated Chicken Controversy in UK Trade
00:29:21
Speaker
Only four retailers rule out chlorinated chicken as shoppers demand clarity.
00:29:28
Speaker
Lovely bit of Farming Weekly. Hyper, sorry, Farming UK Hyper Bowl. There, seven of the UK's largest supermarkets have responded to calls from more than 100,000 shoppers, apparently, to rule out selling chlorinated chicken, although only a minority have given an outright guarantee. That's the lead of this article. There is a campaign group called 38 Degrees. They contacted 11 major UK retailers amid this
00:30:00
Speaker
debate that is apparently going on i suppose it's going on because the media is making it going on and i suppose a few farmers are getting involved too about these us uk trade negotiations in the us you can chlorinate your chicken after you've slaughtered it and feathered it and there's some nice sort of jingoism from the UK producer point of view saying, oh, no, we wouldn't do anything terrible like that. Oh, isn't this awful? Oh, this just shows why UK dead animals are better than dead animals from the US. We shouldn't be buying those. And they're trying to stir up this war of words and saying, oh, well, will you promise not to buy this hideous chlorinated chicken? And Aldi, Asda, Co-op and Waitrose, they responded with information
00:30:52
Speaker
guarantees. Three other supermarkets, Iceland, Morrisons and Sainsbury's, say that they don't sell this kind of chicken, the chlorinated chicken, and they've got no plans to do so. But they didn't actually say, we'll neff will never do that. Tesco, Marks & Spencers, Lidl, Anacardo, they all failed to respond by this deadline set by campaigners, although Tesco and Lidl have since responded sort of afterwards with their own PR, basically saying, we don't do that at the moment, we're not stocking anything like that. But again, I didn't read anything that said we absolutely never will in the future.
00:31:35
Speaker
Mark, my feeling reading this was it in a weird way, a chicken doesn't care once it's dead, whether it's carcass gets chlorinated or not. So in a sense,
00:31:47
Speaker
In and of this story, this is not an improvement or a decline in outcomes for animals, but it does rather give an insight into how much people do or do not care about these things. And I i sniffed quite a lot of ambivalence really here about what happens to people's dead animal products.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah, so so what so what what you've got to bear in mind here is that capitalists, these corporations are giving vague sorts of, not even promises, that's the it's the wrong word. So four of them said that they wouldn't they would never sell this stuff.
00:32:25
Speaker
And some have said that they have no plans to do so in the future. Never trust these guys. As soon as the attention goes somewhere else, like there's been so many examples of this recently and back in the past as well. there's an issue and these ah companies sort of respond favorably towards what the consumer consensus seems to be going towards at the time. As soon as attention shifts towards something else, they will turn their backs on this, like cage-free eggs and so on so forth. You're absolutely right, Mark. that there's There's no way that like Tesco is is changing its policy on this and going, right, we need to get hold of that petition and get people's email addresses just to let them know, you know, express preference for us not to stock these things. We're just letting you know that we're we're going back on that. And we thought you'd you'd want to have an informed decision.
00:33:15
Speaker
Absolutely not. That is laughable. Or they'll they'll kick it further down the road and say, we we plan to introduce these changes in 2037 or something like that. Somewhere suitably vague enough so that people will have completely forgotten about it. it And then they'll turn their backs. So never trust these bastards. There there is the bottom line. There is only one line and and that's profit. If it makes profit, they'll sell it. If it doesn't, they won't. There is no bottom line. There is a line and that line is profit. And if it makes profit, they're into it. If it doesn't, they aren't. Now, the the risks of chlorinated chicken in terms because of beyond the animal rights sort of issue, there there are so many risks involved with with this. the the The science that I've been reading about, and I will call up the quote here if I can do that quickly without losing attention. um it said something along the lines of uh recent studies suggest that there is no uh human health impact in the immediate term to eating chlorinated chicken right so read into that suggest immediate term okay now uh chlorinated chicken when when you mix chlorine
00:34:21
Speaker
with organic matter, i.e. dead animal flesh, in this case, dead birds, it produces a chemical called something like trisomething methane. I forget the exact, it's TMD or something like that. And that has been shown to cause cancer in the long term in humans right so it isn't just the chlorine it's chlorine being added into this mix of all the antibiotics and onto a piece of organic flesh in this case and it it it mixes in with all of these things and produces uh chemicals that if they're eaten frequently enough can and will cause cancer in humans and also when you have massive factory farms that are uh dealing in chlorine based liquids And the wash off from that as it goes into the environment and into the river systems is massive as well. So there is follow on effect. It isn't just the impacts on human health.
00:35:21
Speaker
and It's the impacts on the environment as factory farms are hosed down and the effluent and all the rest of it goes into seeps into the ground and then into the water systems around it. It kills all the fish and promotes algae bloom and water.
00:35:35
Speaker
all of this sort of stuff. So it's it's one more part of the evil nature of this industry where they really couldn't give a flying one about the the animals, about your health, about the environment. It's all about immediate profit.
00:35:48
Speaker
The reason why chlorinated chicken is so popular in the United States is because it covers up a multitude of other malpractices and unhygienic practices that go on inevitably in mass produced factory farms. So it's it's putting ah on a shoddy plaster over a multitude of other problems in order to It kills off some of the bacteria like the E. coli and the campi and all the rest of it, but it presents its own problems. It doesn't solve any problem. This is a is a product that has been promoted to the UK by the Trump administration. So that in itself should ring massive alarm bells. Trump has given his staff of approval for this to happen. That in itself should be a massive red flag for everyone concerned about their own health. And you're right, Ant, it doesn't make any difference to the chicken. It's been turned into a carcass at this point. It's been washed in a chlorine rinse.
00:36:44
Speaker
That alone, the the description there alone, okay, it's it's it's diluted chlorine rinse, but chlorine chlorine was used as a poison gas in World War in its purest form. It's not something you keep on your spice rack to just generally add to your food when you're cooking it, is it? Or something add into your potpourri for the essence of smell of chlorine. It's just this, it's such a perverse, mad, insane way of producing food.
00:37:09
Speaker
And it's been passed off as, ah oh, it's just a bit of chlorine. You know, what what are what are you worried about? if there's There's so many impacts on your health and the environment and the the people offering it to you.
00:37:20
Speaker
that this orange man with the wig on is offering you? Something that I would say about this one is that I think if you gave people two choices, you want the chlorinated or the non-chlorinated, they're always going to choose the latter.
00:37:34
Speaker
But I think that the kind of more important position for us to take with our advocacy on behalf of animals here is... If you can have a conversation with somebody about this and their standpoint is, oh, no, I wouldn't buy that or no, that that's why I shop at Waitrose or one of these other the providers that have said they're not going to.
00:37:57
Speaker
The next stage of the conversation is, oh, OK, so you're you're interested in what happens to the animals that that you consume. Like what other facts about animal agriculture inform your practices?
00:38:11
Speaker
You know, what other things do you enjoy? avoid then what are the things do you know about that goes on because actually this is one that's making the headlines because it's about trade it's about the uk trying to keep its own animal ag products going in favor of us s ones it's not actually about saying we need to lift the lid on animal ag and all the things that go on in it it's not about that it's about jingoism and and getting more money But if we can turn the conversation into, oh, you're repulsed by the idea of chickens being bathed in chlorine. Well, that's interesting. Should we talk about some more things that go on in animal ag? Because if you're interested in that and that's putting you off buying certain things, you might be interested to hear this. Did you know that animals are killed generally when they're still babies? Does that interest you? What about the conditions that they live in? What about, you know what I mean? Because
00:39:06
Speaker
People do care. It's just normally kept under wraps. And because of these capitalist reasons, this particular aspect is getting the spotlight on it. But we can use this as an opportunity to shine the spotlight in different places, I think.
00:39:21
Speaker
I just wanted to add to that interest of pharmaceuticals, because they probably first sell the stuff to the agriculture, the the factory farms, you know, all these big corporations, and after they treat the humans, so it's a win-win situation for them. Yeah, absolutely. Goodness me. As sad as it is. Double whammy, right?
00:39:43
Speaker
They've got it all going on, a finger in each pie. Goodness me. It's fine. We're fighting back. We're fighting back. Don't despair, everybody. including in Oregon, where there is an animal rights initiative aiming to ban hunting, fishing, and the slaughtering of livestock.
Radical Animal Rights Proposals in Oregon
00:40:01
Speaker
That sounds absolute pie in the sky. Surely this can't be the case. Well, interestingly, interestingly,
00:40:10
Speaker
about 75%, no, nearly 80% of the signatures that needs to be gathered in order for this to be added to the ballot box. i don't know whether listeners are aware of this, but in in many US states, you can vote on specific issues at the ballot box either every year or when there's an election. if it's deemed important enough. And one way it's deemed important enough is if there have been enough signatures collected saying this is something that needs to be put, ah basically had a ah referendum on in our state. And in Oregon, there is Initiative Petition 28, which would remove many exemptions from current Oregon and animal cruelty laws to protect more animals from abuse, neglect, and killing. They've got just over 100,000 signatures and they, no, sorry, they need just over 100,000 and they've got 80,000 so far. So, and and they've got till July to get there. So as wacky as this seems, I mean, I'm saying wacky from the point of view of a non-vegan, obviously from an animal rights point of view,
00:41:24
Speaker
We would thoroughly back an initiative that's aiming to ban hunting, fishing, and the slaughtering of livestock. But it's not far off getting to a position where people can choose which box they're going to tick.
00:41:36
Speaker
Richard, the fact is that probably even if it does get to a ah referendum and people are ah voting on it later this year, can't see it going through, but are there nonetheless positives from this story? Yes, there are.
00:41:52
Speaker
Just the fact that there's this initiative and the people might be able to, you know, give their opinion on should we ban phishing, hunting and all this i think it's absolutely brilliant yes we might not get there it might not get passed but nevertheless nonetheless you know i wish other places could have a similar a similar vote or proposal um And again, as before, I'm looking through it that through the lenses of Spain.
00:42:22
Speaker
And if you someone told me if i'm five years from now, there would be an initiative where people could give their opinion whether we should ban hunting or fishing in Spain.
00:42:35
Speaker
I wouldn't believe it. I would be in tears of joy just thinking that people will be given this opportunity, you know. So, yeah, we don't know the outcome.
00:42:46
Speaker
It might not get through, most probably, you know. it it might be tough to get it through, but think it's amazing. And and talks about the shift in perception that people have nowadays or are starting to have. versus certain things you know it's like spain with bullfighting the younger generations are starting to understand that it's it's not about a cultural tradition it's about the cruelty that you put on animals and bulls in this case and that's why they're moving away from it so i think Yes, I can only see positives, yeah to be honest. Yeah, absolutely. I wondered whether they had taken things too far, including livestock farming in that it's almost effectively saying, well, animal ag wouldn't be allowed. and i Yeah, but you might fall short if not. no i have goldbeard yeah no i understand it and i understand as well that if you're passionate about this and putting a lot of work into it then you you don't want to compromise your ask do you but i mean it does seem like in oregon there is a lot of hunting and fishing too despite being very progressive in in many other ways so i i think the main thing is like you say richard the fact that people are even talking about this is is progress Yeah, to where I concur, I think it's amazing that it's even been proposed. But tactically, it's it's very good to set up a radical flank to make the moderate flank seem even more moderate. So you establish a radical edge like this proposal, it will be shut down.
00:44:21
Speaker
But it means that when something not as radical comes along, it seems a lot more moderate than it would have been if that radical flank hadn't been there in the first place. So it's clever long-term politics. Yeah, and and actually I'm i'm looking um amongst other places that at this being reported on a Facebook page, which has the the benefit or the the curse of the comments section. And it's just getting people imagining a world where there's not animal, like there's not hunting, there's not fishing. And most people are being hyperbolic about it, saying, we'd all die. Oh, there'd be nothing to do. People would lose their jobs.
00:44:58
Speaker
But they're starting to imagine it So we're job well done there. As far as I'm aware... campaigning in this way doesn't have to cost thousands and thousands of dollars. You know, you're just putting an idea out there and saying, let's talk about this. Let's discuss this. So well done those for doing so. Well, listeners, you if you're looking at the timestamp on our podcast, you'll realize this is the the latest we've ever got to the pick of the week section, which means we've had lots to talk about. And we've got Mark and Richard's picks of the week coming up next so there's even more juicy stories to discuss we're talking about a new book and a new scandal goodness me as well as producing these audio based shows our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show this is AI generated so it might not always be 100% correct but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show
00:45:59
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. going to spell it all for you.
00:46:14
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:46:25
Speaker
and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:46:32
Speaker
Right, Mark, do you want to start us off? You're talking books. Listeners, you might not know, Mark himself is an author, has produced a fantastic book, and her his pick of the week this week is focusing on another book that's coming out, Surviving Burnout in Vegan Activism. Tell us some more about this, Mark. Why is this your pick?
00:46:52
Speaker
Okay, so i I chose this book. It's called ah Choosing Compassion, Surviving Burnout and Vegan actors in vegan Activism by Dr. Ishani Rao, who was born in Spain, but is a practicing GP in Bristol, the United Kingdom. And she has written, I haven't read the book. I hadn't heard about it before before until Ant sent me the link about it. I've had a look through the the sort of general idea of the book. And I think...
00:47:18
Speaker
So the the reason i I chose it is because it's it's an often overlooked element of vegan rights activism. It was it was referred to as Vistopia by a previous United States author who came came up with the term Vistopia. And it is described as it was coined by um a psychologist in the US called Claire Mann. She's a vegan activist. And it describes the existential crisis of vegans who witnessed the systemic cruelty of animals. So it's essentially it's it's discussing how you survive and keep mentally and physically fit in a world that isn't designed for you or your beliefs, at least not yet. So how how do we as vegans engage with in a positive way for us and for the people around us in a world that is so set against our beliefs? um
00:48:09
Speaker
I would imagine that the early anti-slavery activists in the 18th, 19th century had a similar sort of and predicament where they were living in a world that was so grossly cruel towards their fellow humans. And the whole industry, in fact, entire countries were were built on human slavery and the barbarity and the violence that inevitably comes along with enslaving other humans. human beings. Human slavery was technically outlawed in 1802 in the UK, in 1822 in the British Empire. It still went on for many more decades. It still goes on, of course, but by and large it is seen as a pariah if someone enslaves other people these days. It's big news.
00:48:53
Speaker
and The person is is usually a psychopath and they're sent to prison for a long, long time. we We can only hope for a world where people who abuse animals in similar ways are also regarded as psychopaths and it's them who are the extreme rather than us who are considered the extreme. I wanted i chose it as my pick of the week because it is something that I often think about. I do find it hard at times, some sometimes very hard to engage with the world around me in a normal, if you like, way. considering the amount of abuse and the tolerance of abuse that goes on. The hardest thing I've found about being vegan ever since I went vegan isn't the lack of availability of food, although that can be a hassle at times. It's increasingly not a hassle these days. It's and engaging with people who you otherwise love, who participate willingly in the most gross cruelty towards animals.
00:49:45
Speaker
And I have to stop my tongue so often so I don't get too voracious about this. It's a hard one, really. It's a hard one, right? so So you're dealing with people who, in in every other aspect of their lives, are caring, rational human beings who love their pets, their companion animals, who consider themselves to be animal lovers and pay other people to commit the most grotesque acts against human against non-human animals.
00:50:16
Speaker
multiple times a day. and If I go off on one, I can be really offensive and alienate people around me just by pointing out what they are doing, not by having go at them or screaming or cursing at them, but just by pointing out in a calm, rational way,
00:50:34
Speaker
what they are doing, and what they're paying for. And the recipient usually gets highly offended about what I'm saying. I've lost friendships around this. I know what I'm like. So I just avoid the topic completely with my immediate friends and family. There there is no other way. If I start debating on it, I will go into one big time and I find it hard to restrain myself. I find it hard to think of why I should restrain myself. And this is what this book is sort of addressing. How how do you stay sane?
00:51:03
Speaker
in an insane world. in during During the Vietnam War, you would entire platoons of US soldiers who were addicted to heroin when they were fighting the war in Vietnam. As soon as they were sent back home to the United States, they stopped taking heroin. And when they were investigated about this by psychologists, because typically a heroin junkie finds it extremely hard to give up heroin once an addict, always an addict, typically because they've suffered abuse in their childhood. But these entire tens of hundreds of thousands of US s soldiers, as soon as they changed their environment and went back home normality, they had no interest in taking heroin. They took heroin, extreme sedative and narcotic, in an abnormal society, or they they were thrust into an abnormal situation and they were taking a drug, not because they had suffered abuse or trauma previous in their childhood, but because they were trying to stay sane in an insane world. And that's what they said to their psychologists. How did you stop taking heroin straight away? As soon as you came back, you had no more interest in it because I no longer had to negotiate an insane environment.
00:52:10
Speaker
So i sort of I resonated with that. I was watching a documentary on YouTube wrote recently about this, and I can resonate with this. um I don't take heroin. How do we as sane, compassionate, caring human beings operate in a world that we i certainly consider to be insane at least when it comes to this issue so i really resonate with the notion of of dystopianism and this book uh addresses this she she is actually and i must call up the details of this uh dr ishnai is giving a talk in bristol in the vegan india
00:52:50
Speaker
restaurant in bristol city on march the 5th at 7 p.m till 9 p.m and she's um doing sort of like i'm not sure it's a book launch but she's talking and taking a q and a around this uh topic so anyone any fellow vegans in bristol i would advise you to get along to vegan india restaurant i think it's on glossesha road in bristol and engage with this because it's very important. How do you avoid burnout as an activist? That's by staying positive, by hanging out with other vegans, and action is an antidote to despair. It's one of the big themes of my book that you mentioned, Anthony. Action, direct action, or any other action, is a really good antidote to the despair that we will feel as people who care about animals living in a society that really doesn't care about animals, that acts viciously, despite the fact that it says it does. So you're dealing with two things at the same time. You're dealing with people and a society that that say they care and then act in a completely contradictory way and then attack you for being extreme. yeah yeah this is yeah And this goes on year after year, decade after decade throughout your life as ah as a vegan. How do you deal with this? And it's important that people like Dr. Ishne and the dystopian idea are given a prominent place in our thinking because we do need to negotiate our way around this and this book. Yeah, yeah. war help Rich, ah do I remember right that you were sharing details of a course with me a couple years ago that was about dystopia? Have I made that up? um
00:54:20
Speaker
No, you've not made it up, but probably the process of retrieving the information from the memory wasn't there. No, Vistopia is a book which I read and I have a copy at home, very good, from Clare Mann. The courses I did were from Melanie Joy, which has something called SIVA, which is the Center for Effective Vegan Advocacy, I think. it is. They work you through how to communicate as well as how to be resilient. Great respect for Melanie Joy and for Claremont and anyone that's looking into communication and resilience because it's a big part of what we need, especially when we sometimes you can feel so isolated, so living in matrix in a way where you you see and I totally...
00:55:12
Speaker
agree with what Mark said because sometimes you you talk to family friends people that you know have you know love for animals in terms of their pets and by every standard they are great people but there's that last step of how how do you communicate the fact that they're paying for the people to commit the most atrocious things things to animals and it's hard conversation or even as mark said sometimes you you just can't have that conversation because it's it's it goes nowhere and it just creates that resentment like oh i don't no longer want to see rich and have a conversation with him because he'll always be reminding me of my cognitive dissonance if that makes sense
00:56:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The inconvenient truth. Well, it it seems like Dr. Ishani Rao it is putting a lot of their work into not just this book, but also practical things that that you can do and and places that you can come together with other vegans, with other activists. So I'd i'd recommend following the link in the show notes and and looking through her website at things. Interestingly, just a final point, I note that the book is printed with using vegan inks.
00:56:31
Speaker
10% of profits are donated to various animal rights charities and the book's not of available to buy on Amazon to align with her values. That's an interesting one too. Thank you for that one, Mark.
00:56:42
Speaker
Real food for thought there. And yeah, I would recommend Vegan India on Gloucester Road in Bristol. I've been a couple of times and it's it's fantastic if you've grown up like me enjoying and yeah would it's is just like you sort of stereotypical british indian restaurant but everything's vegan um yeah including the fact that the bill is sometimes quite confusing and you're wondering how they've managed to uh reach the amount that they've ended up at but no great food and well worth a visit Rich, let's go over to your pick for the week. A scandal just mere metres from your front door in South Wales. Chicken in many school dinners is imported from China and Thailand. Whatever next? Was this your pick for the week? Well, it's um my pick of the week because I think it highlights many things that I'll talk about now. But just to give a summary of the article, the BBC reported on statistics released by the Countryside Alliance.
00:57:42
Speaker
And basically what it says is that shows that a large proportion of chicken served in school meals across Wales is imported from very distant countries, particularly China, Thailand, Brazil and so on.
00:57:57
Speaker
Now, in certain councils, and I want to give some specific numbers... Nearly 90 to 99% of chicken used in school dinners comes from these import sources rather than from the UK or Welsh producers.
00:58:11
Speaker
Now, astonishingly, and we'll come back to it, Mirthititfil, 99.35% from Thailand and China.
00:58:23
Speaker
Conwy, Thailand and Brazil 94%, Cofili nearly 90%, although it says 0% since September 2025. Bale of Glamorgan, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff, the list goes on and on with decreasing percentage, but still. Now,
00:58:42
Speaker
Only a small handful of councils, such as Anglesey and Bridgen, can confirm all the school meal chicken is sourced from British producers. ah This has triggered concerns from parents, farmers, local groups, who argue that importing poultry from thousands of miles away makes little sense for food security, animal welfare, climate impact and support from local agriculture.
00:59:07
Speaker
Obviously, special especially given from Wales Home, farming sector. Now, the Welsh Government has responded by pledging to boost local food sourcing and work with councils and suppliers shorten supply change amidst increased public sector spending on Welsh-produced food. Now,
00:59:28
Speaker
dig a little deep into this the most astonishing fact okay that really it it it puzzled me is merth is the highest one with 99.35 you do do you know what merth is known for it's known for its slaughterhouse You know, now i'm I'm not saying buy from them. I'm not saying this, but that it it really astonishes me the fact that there's a slaughterhouse in Merthyr and they buy chicken from China.
01:00:03
Speaker
And it's, it it's, there's so many things that are wrong here, starting with the fact that why should we serve chicken to children? Okay. Obviously, that's the main concern. But it makes me laugh because when I had the cafe, many people would come to me and probably, you know, 90% of my customer base were not vegan. They just happened to like what we were serving. Yeah.
01:00:27
Speaker
But there are things like we we... Even if people buy, bought local chicken, they're probably fed with Brazilian soy, you know. So it doesn't really matter where you're buying from. It needs to be the whole chain. And I read a study that shows that even if the UK wanted, it could not provide food, local grown food, to feed all the factory farmed animals...
01:00:55
Speaker
that are consumed in the UK. So if we're going to be serious about it, and I'm not even putting animal rights here, I'm not even putting animal concerns from a vegan point of view, even if you want it, you could not feed all the locally grown animals with UK soil. So there's so many things wrong here. I don't know if anyone wants to add something. Well, I mean, i would say it it seems a huge coincidence that the amount of chicken coming from Thailand here, and I would imagine that there is a catering company that happens to get its chicken from Thailand, that all of the schools in all of these counties and districts are...
01:01:43
Speaker
are using isn't it and it's not just each individual council's going oh well let's look through the catalogue oh that that chicken looks nice or what have you they're all just going for like a big food provider like bid fest or 3663 and and that's how it's happening isn't it that the fact that um in keredigion i mean one of the loveliest places in the uk that that that coastline by Cardigan Bay. They don't know where their chicken's coming from. The the the the whole thing smacks off, we don't care, we don't care. it's It's feeding people's children as well. Like we're we're so far removed, we're we're happy to just solicit someone to just shove the carcass of a dead animal. We don't know where it's come from. We don't care. We probably don't even know that that's what it is. It's just a sort of amorphous blob that's in a pie or something like that that's going in someone's mouth. And it's like just being a bit more informed and intentional about our behavior. I know that's quite a privileged thing to say. I appreciate some people haven't got the time to you know read packets and search things and what have you. But that there's an easier, gentler way. And it's it's not that difficult, actually. So I wanted to add to that. it's that This is my particular particular view.
01:03:11
Speaker
Even though it is very important for schools to transition to a plan-based environment, Predominant food, and I say predominant because obviously it would be difficult to do it overnight. So gains need to be made in terms of making sure that schools increase their plan-based offerings, increase the amount, ah the days being offered until we transition.
01:03:34
Speaker
I would say that it's also very important. it It wouldn't make sense in my mind, the fact that now schools get it all right. And after you see these same children getting out of school, going to the local McDonald's or KFC and all these places and eating, you don't even know where that's sourced from.
01:03:53
Speaker
So I just wanted to put that in terms of perspective that it's obviously schools, it is the place where kids learn and they get the habits and all this, but it's also from um the parents' point of view also to make sure that what what they eat, plant-based, you know, and on all this, but... Yeah, it's about probably a broader problem where chickens come from and why should it come and why, you know, why are you feeding them chickens?
01:04:23
Speaker
Yeah, it it does seem like, i mean, you mentioned at the top there, Rich, about the Countryside Alliance who have pushed forward this um this research and these reports, then paired with the fact that on Farming UK, we've got stories saying, don't buy that US chicken. They're doing ah they're doing an effective job of scaremongering animal ag anywhere but the UK. It's doubly insidious with the kind of xenophobic tilt on it, as as well as the fact it's animals being exploited. Just to quickly add to that, because I know short on time, the the dairy industry in New Zealand feeds its cows largely the palm kernel extract, which they import from Indonesia.
01:05:08
Speaker
to feed to the cows in New Zealand. So they aren't all grass-fed. They're actually fed from bits of the rainforest. So Indonesia cuts down rainforest to grow palm, which is turned into palm oil, and the the bits that are left over from selling the palm oil kernels are imported to New Zealand to feed to dairy cows here.
01:05:31
Speaker
along with the b12 and all the antibiotics that they're given as well so the whole thing is really fucked up the whole industry is globally just screwed up i mean it couldn't be more screwed up if you if you imagined it you know indeed i reckon welsh parents packed lunches plant-based easy easy you'll be fine yeah exactly thank you for that story richard Right, we've got time for one last story, but before we do so, we're gonna invite you to share your opinions.
01:06:04
Speaker
Firstly, on social media, Shane is doing a cracking job with our social media at the moment, so we are back live again on Facebook. and Instagram, so you can contact us there. And you can send us an email, enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com is the place to find us.
01:06:21
Speaker
I've said that, I'm now going to play a jingle that tells you all about that, but it's Julian Dominic, so it's more persuasive. Here we go. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
01:06:36
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
01:06:48
Speaker
go on send us a message today enough of the falafel at gmail.com okay one last story this relates to several stories that we've commented on this week it brings it together and it's a hopeful vision comes from greenqueen.com.hk i'd recommend you visiting there site if you're into your vegan and animal rights news because they do a lot of good stuff. The headline, livestock farmers could earn more money by producing less meat.
01:07:23
Speaker
That is a headline that piqued my interest. Some research by the British think tank Green Alliance suggested that the best way for meat farmers to make more money could be to produce less meat.
01:07:38
Speaker
The basic payment scheme is a provision that basically subsidises animal ag farms. It's set to end in 2027 when it will be replaced by the UK's environmental land management schemes. I'm talking UK here. There is also a review of EU subsidies.
01:08:00
Speaker
going on in the not too distant future as well. And it puts into focus the fact that, for example, in the UK, 58% of people have made some effort to eat less meat The intake of red meat has fallen by 8% over the last two decades.
01:08:18
Speaker
Beef and lamb production have made a loss since 2000. So all of these things amount to the fact that regular reviews do need to have happen for these subsidies, these funds. And this this study by the think tank Green Alliance is suggesting, in short, that that reducing meat production could make space literally in many cases for more profitable activities whether that be green energy you know ah wind farms and things like that in the space ecotourism b&bs things like that we're not going to spend a huge amount of time talking about it richard if i come to you first that's a really positive vision isn't it even if it's a
01:09:05
Speaker
a speculative one can you see local farms selling up their cows and um putting some wind turbines or a a nice cozy bed and breakfast is that the vision of the future you could imagine don't know i mean if if i'm very very positive and do a big effort to be very positive and a really changing world it would be really nice to see them reduce or completely stop with animal farming and maybe replacing by nutritious crops and maybe, you know, animal sanctuaries for the victims of the meat trade. And so newer generations can have an idea of what humans were capable of doing in the past and to make sure it never happens again. But I guess the first the first place in my mind to stop is subsidising something that really, using taxpayer money to subsidise something think that's deficitarian in terms of economic terms. um Because as much as I would like change to be from ethical and moral standpoint, it's more likely, in my view, to happen because it's no longer economic economically sustainable rather than morally right. But... Have I gone to on a tangent there, Anthony? we've We've never known that on this podcast at all. No. What a thought.
01:10:30
Speaker
Mark, this when I read this, we were discussing off air, there doesn't seem to be a sort of tangible rubber stamp from a a government or anything like that saying that they would definitely do this. But it's it's kind of reports like this that... are perhaps most likely to influence folk to to make such decisions? Do you hold out much hope that this could happen? It's it's high time it did. So essentially, for all your listeners out there, the ah the animal agriculture is so economically inefficient that it would not survive in the free market if it wasn't for animals.
01:11:06
Speaker
economic union subsidies that are given out in the form of the commonun common agricultural policy, the CAP, which has been in existence since the 1950s. And it exists solely to provide animal agriculture with free money in order for it to survive. If that free money was withdrawn, these so-called businesses, they are businesses, they're recipients of free money, they are charities. it would collapse in five minutes. It is ironic that the Jeremy Clarksons of this world who bang on about hands off the stage, just leave me do what I want to do and free market. and is Isn't capitalism great? These people would not survive for one day in the real world if it wasn't for all the free money that they were given by the taxpayers of Europe.
01:11:54
Speaker
That's how inefficient animal agriculture is. For every 10 pounds of grain that you feed to a cow, you get one pound of beef back. That is not an economically viable proposition. So the only way that they can survive is if they're given free money from taxpayers, including vegans and vegetarians, in order to survive. So there is a wonderfully illuminative research piece done by a guy know called James O'Donovan, a fellow Corkman like myself, ah He is a research network member of the Vegan Society of Ireland, and he did an in-depth study about all of this on farms in Cork, which is a county in the south of Ireland, and he analysed how much
01:12:36
Speaker
Various aspects of the animal agricultural system depend on free money from the taxpayer in order to survive. Let me say this again. Animal agriculture is not only ecologically unsustainable, it has never been money. What's the word money? Economically. Economically sustainable. It never has been. It never can be. It demands way too much and gives way too little in return. It cannot survive in the so-called free market at all. And as I say, it is very ironic because the typical demograph of these people is very much the right wing and they're very much into the free market and being allowed to do exactly what they they want to do with so-called their land. If they didn't get this free money, they are the biggest receivers of charitable money on this planet and have been for decades and decades. Very few people know this.
01:13:26
Speaker
But every seven years, the common agricultural policy meet behind closed doors and they decide on how much more billions that they will give to these. I wouldn't call it an an industry. the The animal agricultural industry is not an industry. It is a charity. It is the biggest charity on this planet. It can only survive with the free money it gets. Now, there is a move to move away from animal agriculture as the demand for meat and dairy subsides.
01:13:52
Speaker
in Europe. and there There are green think tanks, and which is what what this article is all about, that want to see a shift away from giving farmers money to uneconomically produce food that fewer and fewer people want and move that towards ecologically sustainable initiatives. The Green Tripartite Initiative in Denmark is the leading example of this. So anyone interested in what I'm talking about, keying these keywords into Google, green tripartite initiative,
01:14:24
Speaker
common agricultural policy. And it will explain everything that I'm talking about. James O'Donovan has done a wonderful analysis of all of this. And that's where you need to go to to understand how much these people parasite off society and the economy in order to provide food that is unhealthy and ecologically devastating. Indeed. And and like you say, Mark, it's great that there are organizations working towards just raising awareness of this, putting together hard data reports and things like that. For my money, it's it's um too much too soon to expect this to just completely switch. But like the story we were talking about in Oregon, the fact that people are being prompted to imagine a world where these things can happen. Even if it's too much for them to imagine, it starts a conversation, doesn't it? Which is is what we need to be doing to to be shifting things. So well done, the the green think tank, green alliance, and the folk involved in producing this story.
01:15:26
Speaker
So that's the last of our stories. And if you're still with us, we're we're rather assuming you might have been enjoying the show. Either that or you're compiling some sort of sinister report on the three of us and you're going to use it for malevolent means. But I choose to believe that you've been enjoying the show. In which case, there are some things you might want to know. We're on Ko-Fi now. That is a platform where you can, if you wish, give us a small financial donation. It does not come to any of us individually. It's just going into the Enough of the Falafel project. So it would do things like improve our sound quality by getting new microphones or things like that. So there's a link in the show notes where you can become either a recurring donor or a one-off one, off one or or, and, or you can just tell people about us. And here's some more information about that from the wonderful Carlos and Kate.
01:16:23
Speaker
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Speaker
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01:17:00
Speaker
Thank you everyone for listening. The next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out will be The Going Vegan show available from Thursday 12th of February with Shane and Anthony.
01:17:13
Speaker
Shane's Going Vegan story. And that's enough of the Falafel for this episode. Thank you Anthony and thank you Richard for your contributions. Thanks everyone for listening to this rather prolonged episode of ah Vegan News. I've been Mark and you've been listening to The Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:17:34
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
01:17:44
Speaker
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01:18:15
Speaker
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01:18:36
Speaker
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Speaker
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