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Veganuary 2026: Paul's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
90 Plays16 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from the brilliant, regular Falafeller, Paul!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 31 directly https://zencastr.com/z/8TMIdXtO
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Episode
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions. And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan.
Early Influences on Vegan Journeys
00:00:26
Speaker
And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those so it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors we really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026
00:00:50
Speaker
Paul, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really looking forward to to connecting. And we've we've known each other a little bit before, but the things that we're about to delve into, i low know little to nothing about. So it's ah I'm going to be in the same position as everybody else here. could Could you start things off by telling us a little bit about those first seeds of veganism or that that first glimmer that it might be something that might become part of your life, might be something that you might be interested in? Yeah, so I guess I'd have to step back probably to being reasonably young because my journey to veganism was the sort of classic slow and staggered view, I guess, really. So I was always brought up with pets, um always brought
00:01:37
Speaker
brought up questioning where what what animal meat was from when it was put on the table in front of me, apparently, according to my mother. So I think I always had that connection, I think, which is quite important between food on the plate and what it really was, you know, what it was before.
00:01:53
Speaker
From that point onwards, there was seed sown through various roots. I recall... being around about 15, I think. And if I remember rightly, I may have picked up a leaflet in my hometown then, which I think might have been animal aid. Struggling to remember back that far now, 35 years ago. And I think that probably got me thinking. And then I recall around that sort of time, there was of pivotal moment for me being with my friends in London, again, about 15, 16, I think.
00:02:25
Speaker
And everyone headed off to McDonald's or Burger King. And I just said, I'm i'm not i'm not going to go there. I'm going to go and get a go and get a sandwich you know so from some from somewhere else. And I think i remember that distinctly as a time when I sort of started to eschew red meat. So that was kind of the first step, I guess, really. from Yeah, I was just going to say, is is that something that you'd regularly be doing in terms of like, I don't know, stepping out of line or like going against the grain with things? Because to many people, that's quite a bold move.
00:02:55
Speaker
It is. And I would say certainly at that age, I was very much not that kind of person. I wasn't, I was, ah I was probably very much towing the kind of normal line. Like like most kids at that age, i would think I'd probably like to to fit in. So,
00:03:09
Speaker
it would That would be quite unusual for me, I think. and And I don't really remember feeling particularly uncomfortable about it. But yeah, it was probably one probably one of my very few moments where i did step out of the ah norm, to be honest, thinking about it.
00:03:21
Speaker
And was that because of the information that you'd learned through this leaflet or like you described at younger age being quite inquisitive, like questioning things? Yeah, i think it was ah I think it was a culmination of those things in that I'd got to the point where I'd reached a decision that I didn't want to eat red meat anymore and it was kind of it was it just felt the right thing to do. So i don't think I faced that sort of uncomfortableness if you're going to suddenly decide you're going to become, I don't know, like ah a goth or a punk or something like You're going to get into everyone else and you know you might get quite a lot of you know Obviously, naturally, you're going to get a lot of ribbing for that and lot of ah challenge.
Transitioning from Vegetarianism to Veganism
00:03:57
Speaker
so But i don't remember I don't remember feeling like that. i Obviously, memory can play tricks on you sometimes. and in a Whilst I think my friends would have probably given me some gentle ribbing, it wouldn't have been too too much, I don't think. And obviously, being in London, at a particular moment in time, I could just pop to somewhere else and get something. There was availability of an alternative at that moment in time. Yeah. So how did things progress from there?
00:04:17
Speaker
So from there, I think it was it was a gradual step up over the years for that. So and this is a game where my memory um my memory might be out slightly on some of the years, but I'll do my best to recall. i went to uni probably about the age of 19, and think it would have been around 19... or 20 years old that I decided to give up chicken and um again I remember i remember the last meal I had as chicken because I was cooking it and I dropped it on the floor when it went all over the the kitchen and floor to get to the pain of my mates and I thought oh that was it anyway then so and again like i think probably going to college there was a I was probably meeting more people who were of that sort of persuading so again probably it was easier with that sort of um know the typical college backdrop where you you do meet people who are i've got different ideas and are doing different things and so i suspect that probably made it easier for me to make that decision um again it was only chicken at that point i gave up and then i think i i think for some slightly bizarre reason i decided to carry on eating in turkey for maybe one more christmas or something like that and i'd i'd
00:05:28
Speaker
But maybe that was possibly not wanting to kind of have the whole family you know in inquisition about about that, which obviously did occur and kind of carried on for several years, although it's kind quite normal now. That was that was probably 2021. I remember I then didn't give up anything else to about the age of 26, I think, which is when I gave up fish and all shellfish and obviously giving up all other meat to to that point. And again, weirdly, I'd started just experimenting and eating other sort of types of fish around that time as well. But I think I'm trying to think what triggered that. I think it was just part of that journey where I thought, you know, I need to I need to do a bit more here. but Probably I've read some stuff about the the suffering of fish, I think. Again, probably some more leaflets. on
00:06:14
Speaker
By that point, I would have been a member of various groups, you know, as animal aid and petter and groups like that. So. probably that sort of stuff had started to make its mark a
Support Systems and Challenges
00:06:25
Speaker
bit more on me. Can I ask what what's your identity was with regards to these things at at this point, if if you if you can remember or indeed kind of put a put your finger on it? Because it's some what I'm hearing is like a a gradual gradual reduction of these things. yeah like Did that come with an identity label from your point of view or not? Yeah, I mean, very much so that, yeah, the as you'd expect. So, yeah, becoming vegetarian, pescetarian, obviously, and then vegetarian. I don't think pescetarian around that time, or maybe it was my ignorance, wasn't really thrown around too much as a label at that point. So I probably referred to myself as vegetarian that ate fish, which is fucks the hell out me normally with these tastes. But, you know, like I guess, I think, again, memory memory is um not my strongest facet these days, but I think I probably referred to myself as as that. And then, yeah, full on sort of vegetarian, obviously, once I'd given up fish. So up to that point, that was that was kind of the fairly standard labels, I guess, I used. And was the transition from vegetarian to vegan, did that happen in in similar ways, kind of like going a a product at a time, if if you like? Mm-hmm. No, actually, ah when I went vegan, I mean, it was a ah relatively, ah it wasn't an overnight thing, but i kind of tried various different products. But when I'm trying to think, actually, I think I, trying to think now, it was quite easy to give up eggs for me. With the milk side of stuff, I was fortunately seeing someone at the time who was vegan.
00:08:00
Speaker
And she helped me try lots of different vegan milks and until until I got used to them. And it took me about three months, I think, to get used to to east of them. And went through, mean, back then there was less choice, there was still choice. So probably went through about half a dozen different types of vegan milk. And some I found one I liked. I think it was cop one at the time. But yeah, she was really she was really important in in getting me to think. Taking that step that I think we see a lot as a challenge to veganism, which is people who are veggie.
00:08:26
Speaker
and you just don't make that step into veganism I still know a lot of people like that who still play back the usual well you know love cheese etc blah blah blah but yeah she was really good got me got me into that I'd arrived and she said i've got you got your cow pus in the um in the fridge if you want it and sort of uh But significantly for me, and I think this is an important part, and in terms of how I approach trying to help people go vegan or kind of embrace it, is she was very non-judgmental and quite gentle with kind of, not pushing, that sounds like sort of drug dealing, but it's kind of more like opening your eyes to the different products and trying them and making your own mind up. Because if you said, I really don't like that particular, you know, rice milk or something like that, but or I like this one. So it's kind of helping helping you reach that decision and finding the stuff that you like to to... support that move so what what that sounds like to me is that there's there's things going on in your life at that time that are helping you kind of be vegan ready if you like if you've got somebody that's that's able to support and give advice but not be judgmental like is that a fair assessment that you're Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. I think that's absolutely the case. And as i say, I think not only did it help me in my own journey to get there, but I guess, you know, um I've never really thought of it like this before, but I guess it probably formed way of engaging with people as well to try and get them because I guess you but yeah you can't help but go on your own life experience. Can you just sort of take that forward? And like I suppose if you think, well, this this helped me, then I'll try and take the same approach with other people.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah. Were there things that you were afraid of or reticent about it it at that stage nonetheless? Yeah, I guess i there was there was challenges for sure. You know, I had i remember having family members saying, oh, you're going to get ill. I mean, it wasn't things I i thought, know, I knew that was just, you know, a bit due to lack of information and understanding on their side. But there was, there was you know, I'd get some ribbing from from friends, colleagues, friends in general it was quite gentle ribbing and actually when it come down to it they totally understood and often would take me to one side well we'd speak to one side going ah fair play you actually i kind of get a commitment to it not for me but you know um fair play and all that other challenges yeah i mean the the stuff about you know the kind of practicalities of being in certain circumstances where you can't we weren't able to eat um was was a challenge sometimes um back in that back in that day
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Did you have other sort of things in mind there in terms of maybe like the kind of typical masculinity challenge around that sort of thing? I guess there's just with with any change in lifestyle or indeed any event that is kind of coming up for somebody, you will generally have a perceived anticipation of it as as to what it might be like ah and and and some of that will be eagerness and there'll be positive anticipation but also yeah there will be feelings of foreboding or worries or anxiety some of which end up not being the case at all but we can we can give ourselves a narrative can't we before engaging in something and it's it's sometimes interesting to compare notes on those I think
00:11:27
Speaker
did Did I worry that I might not see it through because of missing certain foods? Probably. But then that didn't find that particularly difficult in the end because I think I was lucky enough to be poop with someone the time who was a good cook. Lots better than me. And also lived in an area that had actually some good selection of vegan foods you could go out and eat, whether it was like pubs or stuff like that. So I think if I didn't have that, like, let's say I was in a, lived in the middle of nowhere with not much of other than a small, small sort of corner shop type thing. I think that wouldd have been a lot more difficult, but having access to larger cities, you know, eateries and, and, you know,
00:12:05
Speaker
starting to open your eyes about cooking a bit more yourself then that was that was a lot a lot easier yeah but you've you've talked about some things that were that were perhaps easier than you expected but was there anything that surprised you kind of in in either direction certainly as the time went on you know the kind of the i think the the fact that it opened up more i know a more imaginative relationship with food because i think before probably like most people my cuisine sort of choice was was I wouldn't say it's boring, but it's yeah most people probably didn't have many adventurous meals. And so starting to understand different ingredients and looking at different dishes and combinations of stuff was quite exciting. So I don't know, like investigating more Arabic food, for example, um that was that was really good. So I guess other than that, you the flip side of that fear about not finding enough to eat was like, actually, there's some really good stuff here i I might not have found for a while if I didn't didn't go down this road. Yeah, that's that's great, isn't it? It's like an an unexpected gift. Like what?
00:13:03
Speaker
What? um What have been your your favourite findings on on that subject? You mentioned Arabic food. Yeah, Arabic food, big fan of Arabic food. I think, you know, finding that, you know, if you're lucky and you've got a Chinese takeaway that does mock meats, I'm a big fan of mock meats. I know it's not, it's kind of a bit of a divided opinion in the vegan community. I'm a big fan of it. It's a good transition thing to have out there for non-vegans.
00:13:23
Speaker
finding that was out there, finding that some of those are really good. That was that was that was great because I thought, this is close to it. and You and I know stuff's getting really, really close, dangerously close sometimes, you're kind having to question it. yeah But you think, well, i'm not I'm not missing anything here. I'm eating something that is close enough to me that I'm enjoying it, but obviously not causing animal suffering. And so it's a no-brainer, you know, at the end of the day. So, yeah, that was that was ah that was that was a surprise. I think in terms of, um I guess I did what i just so deep worry, just going back to the original point about what it might mean for health. I mean, I was not particularly, at that point in time, probably not particularly active, but did think, well, am I going to, might, might feel a bit tired, might have to look at taking vitamins and stuff like that. And, but that didn't really pan out anyway. So that was, that, that was good. And, you know, as you, as you know, sort of later years, I've obviously taken up doing more long distance running, which I never did when I was younger and I'm doing now and even into my first marathon next year. So it certainly not held me back on that front, on that front. Yeah, sounds like it's just been full of
Community Dynamics and Misconceptions
00:14:25
Speaker
lots of unexpected, pleasant surprises for you. Yeah, yeah. And I think also, well, maybe another good one to touch on, if you're happy to stay on that for a little bit longer, is people that you meet. So that's been generally very good. So, you know, in the early days, I met people that were involved in, again, through sort of the person seen, met some, you know, hunts abs and people that were quite active and
00:14:50
Speaker
found them fascinating and we really interesting interesting characters a lot of them yeah um very kind of like kind of felt like very much like a punk movement i suppose to some degree and but flip side of that obviously there were some people that um wouldn't necessarily be my cup of tea should we say so there's you know as we as many community and movement there's a range of people there's some great people and some i've met some fantastic people and made friends with some fantastic people that again i wouldn't have met if i didn't go down that journey so i'm really grateful for that and compassionate people. But yeah, there's some as well that you think don't do the movement any kind of particularly or or just ah aren't my kind of people at the end of the day. and We're not all meant to get on with each other, everyone, but yeah, some of them have been an interesting characters. Yeah, I think we we could probably
00:15:36
Speaker
safely say that it's um if you're hearing complete evangelism from somebody that every yeah that all vegan food is great or that all vegans are amazing then that there's somebody probably not being completely honest there or or possibly being so won over by it all that they're not necessarily seeing things straight because that's Absolutely, yeah. And that's the thing, isn't it? I think it's kind of having that realistic view. I mean, I think the people that I naturally saw as friends in the movement tended to be of the same approach to veganism. So they were sort of progressive vegans who were quite practical, passionate, but practical, if you like, really not not kind of evangelistic because, you as I say,
00:16:18
Speaker
That didn't get me to be vegan, you know, and spoke to people over the years have been vegan. And, you know, the message I keep hearing is I was nearly put off being vegan because people were just aggressive or kind of setting the bar too high or expecting perfection overnight. And it's just a crazy... Yes. I've got bit background in psychology, which you might not know, but change, change people's attitude, social change, point me to the amount of times it happens overnight and you just tell someone to do something and they do It doesn't happen. It takes time, takes coercion a little bit and you've got to be on a journey. So yeah, it's all rolled into that, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, my own personal vegan journey has involved times, particularly in the early years when wasn't sticking to it 100%, not for prolonged periods, but I think similar to what you were referring to with... turkey at christmas dinner and things like that just a few occasions where i've not wanted to rock the boat too much or i've not not had the social tools to know how to say no to something is that something you've experienced to to start with it is i think i mean i was pretty good though i think once i decided something sticking to it although and where i slipped up okay i'm i'm i'm trying to remember
00:17:38
Speaker
wasn't through choice but like most people i had errors as in like you know getting served the wrong thing and then halfway through eating thinking christ this isn't this isn't what it was you know i'd go at uni yeah getting served some kind of chicken pie or something i'd eaten half before i realized you know and and same with a few beers on the night out and you've gone in to get something and they've given you the wrong thing so that certainly happened to me i mean don't know about you but i can't remember if it was last year i'm sure i've made make
Resources for Vegan Growth
00:18:05
Speaker
mistakes recently but I don't get hung up about it I just think mistakes being made confusion and whatever you you you kind of action man eagle eyes pretty good at it now at spotting it or smelling it and um but sometimes it's going to you can slip up inadvertently and you just have to kind of not get too hit up about that and move on well yeah I don't really see what the alternative is really it's it's well no and and though we can sort of make jest about you know
00:18:33
Speaker
losing your vegan card and and and things like yeah that, that that's not the point of the the movement or the, intention at all is it it's it's certainly it's about the long term and it's about trying to do your best that's all we can do isn't it yeah absolutely it's not about you know the whole external perception that veganism is it's it's about trying to be perfect yeah obviously we know that's not the case and any i think anything we do that supports that view is should be avoided you know it's good to kind of be honest about mistakes and and say you know yeah i
00:19:06
Speaker
um I might not people are going to go really drive a car so you can't accept insects when you drive and along saying with I'm not trying to be perfect it's about know the definition is as as far as is practically possible as all know but that's that's kind of I think the being a humble and a sort of honest and and person about it really yeah absolutely so in terms of in terms of trying our best like things at our disposal that can help and tools and resources what have been the most useful to you and i I'm going to make ah an assumption here that that may have changed over time there will have been some resources or some approaches or some tools that in those first few days weeks months were were a lot more useful than they need to be now because you're it's far more ingrained yeah i mean i think probably going back to the time i was certainly in those early days we didn't have the internet wasn't wasn't a thing so you didn't have that out there which is a great tool for for people now but there wasn't that so it would have been i think it would have been making connections with people that made you think and having those kind of direct conversations there would have been membership of groups about mine predominantly to start with being around
00:20:21
Speaker
animal welfare it would have been the sort traditional ones um you know even like RSPCA type stuff and and getting that subsequent message which is you know if you care about animals but you know why are you eating them kind of thing so yeah those would have been ah key things probably being part of groups as well because I guess I guess I was I my movement to veganism was before there was too many sort of you know documentaries internet things like that which probably would have influenced younger people so not so much of that for me but the time those sort of things come along yes i've watched them and some of them have been great but they're more i i look at those more as i wonder if these are a good tool for other people now um yeah but as opposed to yeah am i assessing them as a
00:21:06
Speaker
a tool for for kind of spreading the spreading the word so to speak what i think it i think that's part of it is that actually it's it's not just where you are on your own journey it's the it's the availability of other resources so my first year of being vegan for example like sauce mix was an incredible resource yeah now i mean just just for nostalgia's sake i did happen to make my own a a a few weeks ago but you can't buy it anymore because it's just not needed anymore because there are other resources and there are other products out there and so it's also partly the age that we're living in what what would what would you say in 2024 are like the biggest and most useful resources for you being vegan day to day
00:21:51
Speaker
For me, obviously, being vegan already, then i'm kind of looking at things like, directly for me, like so recipe-based stuff, for example, or the sort of information or whether it's TV or film, stuff that sometimes reinforces or reminds you sometimes why you're vegan. um you know I think that's useful. I think that's probably not something we've not touched on as whilst you are vegan. Sometimes it helps to kind of step back and remember why you're doing it. That's quite a helpful thing to just kind of go, I'm still happy. you This is the right decision. I'm doing the right thing.
00:22:26
Speaker
And you know if I can have interactions with people whereby I can push this to some gender degree and and get them interested, then all the better. Yeah, I think, you know, obviously eateries, you're going out, restaurants, great. I eat out a lot, as you know yourself. So travelling around the country, going to different restaurants, seeing what they're offering. Seeing the amazing food that's out there now and the different you know different cultures of food. Brilliant. It's great for me. Some of those are obviously more actively involved in some of the pushing of message, like if it's, I don't know, say Unity Diner or something like that in London. So, yeah, those are those are really useful. But i I still have, I still get all the kind of membership um magazines through and electronically or
00:23:08
Speaker
by by post but I ah do tend to kind of look at them and and um probably more skinner than these days um I'm interested in some certain articles but if it's stuff about you know starting to go vegan. i might have a read of it just to see what people are saying but it's obviously not, I don't feel the need to look at it. The other thing as well is ah I do know some vegans now who are on the internet a lot of say on Facebook and they still subject themselves to a lot of the kind of graphic videos and I think that can not only impact mental health but I have said to these people, this is just my view,
00:23:43
Speaker
I don't think you need to do this. You've chosen to be vegan already. ah you don't You don't need to beat yourself up, make yourself feel guilty by watching this stuff. It's upsetting. You've made a decision to know not support that. ah ah yeah I don't see the benefit personally in watching that again. that's kind of We've already gone past that point. yeah That's just my token, though. Can I seek some clarification then? Because I thought that's what you were referring to a moment ago when you were saying it's quite useful to kind of reaffirm why you're doing it. In my head, I was naturally thinking of you re-watching some some graphic footage or some documentaries. Not so much that. No, not documentaries, but um not not i would I personally try to avoid that because I do find it upsetting like most people. And and um yeah, I do watch bot stuff stuff with it in, but you know it can be... difficult i probably veer now more towards the sort of stuff like looking at science sort of stuff looking at maybe like sport science with it you there's kind of world health organization studies so yeah more of a more of a kind of medical scientific approach i guess maybe really now um it's kind of where i'm at but yeah not to say i don't see any of that stuff at all now but i i'm just conscious that i don't think it's gonna that in itself is gonna
00:24:56
Speaker
reaffirm it that that's kind of so set in my mind that that's kind of wrong that's that's never going to change you know and i've I've been lucky enough, I guess, that I don't think I've ever kind of fallen off the wagon and I can't ever see me doing that. So i've you know I'm not sort of blowing my own trumpet there really. It just feels like I couldn't yeah couldn't do that. I couldn't ever go back. because It would just be, i just can't comprehend it to some degree. Yeah, I couldn't necessarily pinpoint exactly when it was, but there's set it's certainly been the case for me for a number of years that I simply can't imagine not being vegan. I don' i don't know how I'd do it.
00:25:33
Speaker
I don't know how I'd do being non-vegan. And that obviously wasn't the case at the start. There were practical things and emotional things and social things and dietary things to get used to. But there does come a point, I think, for a lot of people where It's just like, well, there's no need to go back now. And actually, like it's just automatic carrying on the way that I am. Yeah, would be like it would be like someone saying, are going to vote Tory or something like that? It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. So it's like, yeah, I just couldn't comprehend it. So it's so slightly random question for you now.
00:26:13
Speaker
What? difficulties are there about being vegan that you think people don't talk about very much i think we've touched on one of those things which is community it is a double-edged sword i think you know you you can get a lot of support and find some good people there but you can you can find that there's um things in those communities that are actively against promoting veganism as i say by setting the bars do i putting new people in the position where they just go i'll stop this this is too this is sanctimonious kind of view and that's kind of what I feel quite tuned into that feel like you've reached a good point for yourself I'm kind of more interested in know I know I'm not going to go back but it's kind of like I speak to people now saying oh yeah I was really interested in you know they've had a lot of veggies you know they're like I tried to get information about it joined a local group on Facebook had some good conversations with people and then you know couple of people were just really laying into me about honest questions and we know the sort of questions you know people will say
00:27:12
Speaker
what's wrong what's wrong with honey? And they're asking they're asking out of wanting to understand. They're not asking in a kind of why why don't you eat it? But
Advice for New Vegans
00:27:20
Speaker
people are quite... um The triggered, I think, aren't they some respects for these sort of questions and need to be engaging with these people as a help as a helpful person, not a kind of critical person. Well, it's very difficult sometimes to pick up tone in just written text on on something like Facebook. so So you can assume that somebody's asking it in a sarcastic way or ah a toxic way. and And they're absolutely not, but it's... Yeah, yeah, no, you're right.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think we' we've all been there in terms of like, you know, misinterpreted text messages or or emails or, you know, whether it's work or personal, whatever, and misinterpretation can lead to all sorts of things. So, yeah, absolutely agree with that. i think, I mean...
00:28:02
Speaker
you you alluded to it earlier on some of the product um in general stuff is really good now but i think we all know so maybe early early days something like the cheese and people would say to you i can't go vegan because i don't like the cheese and i'd say have to say yeah and i know it tastes like shit but and you know when um you probably used to do sort of vegan stores and stuff like that and you'd go and get your free samples and you'd usually get loads of samples from the companies, the stuff that you thought, I don't want to give this away because people don't like this, it's a rank. And you'd want the really kind of deluxe stuff that people wouldn't want to give away, but you're like, I want to give the quality stuff away so people will like it. And so I think's being honest about what's good and not. So I have conversations with people at work and,
00:28:47
Speaker
They'll say, oh, yeah, but vegan cheese or, I don't know, um or this mock meat or whatever, or like vegan egg. And I'll say, yeah, it's not quite there yet, but there's some really interesting stuff coming out. And, you know, I think we're not far away and it's kind of lots of money going into it. And give it five years, I think we'll be there.
00:29:01
Speaker
But to just sort of say to people, oh, it's all wonderful. I mean, that's just... i think you're disingenuous then and you create a view that you know vegans are just gonna be your people um well lie about this stuff will be to be positive about everything when it's not so and if you want people to kind of join in with you that you've got to got to say to them well i don't like this particular one myself but i'm quite keen on this one maybe like this one well i mean that the impact could be huge if you if you recommended a product that's really not very good it really could put someone off i i had that experience with cheese and with chocolate, the first vegan cheese, first vegan chocolate I had really, really was bad. And going from vegetarian, like I was still very used to those things. It it didn't sway me, but you know, it it there was I wobbled, you know, I wasn't 100% sure. Yeah, no, I think that's, it was definitely, you know, that was um one of the things doing the stalls. In fact, we got to the point with with the sort of local group where we would go and buy stuff ourselves rather than, it because I mean, back in the day, you'd get a lot of samples through, but as things became more popular, um I think the companies felt less inclined to,
00:30:10
Speaker
try and engage with local groups and i get that because it's cost as well so you kind of would end up going to holland and barrett as it was back in the day and say well what's the what's the premium stuff and can we cut out really small yeah kind of give it away know put that put that stuff to the front of the you know the store and get people to to try it um because you would get people come along even well veggies and vegans saying oh i'm still trying to find the the sort of golden chalice of a decent cheese and we say wow have you tried this you know it's kind of a yeah so is there still stuff that you you wouldn't recommend because i think it's just as important to know that yeah there's still products that i don't list put your products i don't like or don't rate i mean i'm like i won't say names because i don't think fair no no do it well i think you should well i know, there's stuff like, you know, the cheese-ly stuff and the old-school cheese-ly stuff, which tastes a bit like old socks. But but some some of the i mean some of the new stuff that's come out, I mean, I like to try it. As i say, I like the mock meats. And I've tried some of the new, shall we say, premium, expensive kind of mock meats.
00:31:06
Speaker
And they're good. But as I've said quite openly to people, this is really nice. And, like, you might have your juicy marbles kind of steak and it might be um whatever it is in. waitress is about 10 quid or something isn't it's expensive which is again is a potentially off-putting factor to people but I'd go and say if you want something that go and get the Vivera steaks from Tesco for like three quid because personally I think they're just as good if you want that kind of experience but again that's my that's my taste palette and you know but Yeah, but I think, like you say, that honesty is really important there. And yeah, I completely agree with you. The um the Juicy Marbles, for for my taste, is not seven pounds better than the Vivera. The one time I've tried it, ah it did happen to be reduced to about three pounds in Waitrose. Yeah, I did say to someone, I said, I'm going to have that, but it's going to be it's goingnna have to be a yellow label job, that one. It's sort of...
00:31:59
Speaker
no way I'm going to... Because, you know, i mean there is that um thing we have to fight at the moment still, isn't there, that I still hear it now for people going, well, you know's you know, times are hard veganism is expensive. And you go, well, he it's as expensive as you want to make it, as it is if you don if you want to go and buy premium products and go to M&S and stuff and buy the...
00:32:18
Speaker
quite ridiculously priced stuff, then fine. If you've got the money for it, fair enough. But, you know, I'm i'm tight. So I kind of like, I like a bargain. So I'm i'm kind of looking for the sort of mid-range stuff. And I'm a massive convert to Aldi over the last few years because I think they've been winning winning in the kind of Christmas food thing, certainly hands down for the last few years and, you know, quite excited about what they're going to come up with now as compared to say the more premium supermarkets who have maybe taken their foot off the gas a little bit maybe or asking a big wedge for when people don't want to necessarily spend like 15 quid on something so yeah it's uh definitely honesty and pointing people in the right direction and and and not not being um not being elitist about it as well you know kind of oh yes you must you must have the best stuff from waitrose or whatever it's like find find the range As you know yourself, you're on these stores, you'll meet people that have got different different tastes, different financial situations, um time, all that sort of stuff. So you need be able to have conversations with them where you can talk about quick food, um premium food, ah budget food, um easy to make food, um food for kids, food for fussy eaters, um you know food for people who've got other allergies intolerances as well you need to consider. There's all that to think about, isn't there? Yeah, absolutely. And it's set and the the great thing is that all of those groups of people can can be catered for, but in different ways. yeah yeah
00:33:45
Speaker
Okay, so if we can talk just generally to somebody, if if let's say somebody comes up to you now, ah start of 2024 and says, Paul, i've I've been reading some stuff online. or my my friend has been talking to me and I'd like to try veganism, what would be the first things that you'd say to them or the top tips you'd want to give them? I'd say that sounds amazing. That's really, that's really great. um I'd probably say what sort of stuff have you been reading or looking at? Because I want to understand what their motive was, because it's maybe dangerous to assume that people are thinking the same way as you in terms of, you know, they yeah are they interested in
00:34:24
Speaker
animal welfare because some people that's a kind of side bonus isn't it i think for vegan and for them that they might be more interested in thinking if i eat vegan i think it will be better for the planet might be more healthy for example so you've got you've got to tap into what their motivation is because if you start talking not on that level you're probably not going to engage with them or it's not what they want to hear if they said i i am i'm training i want to kind of eat healthy vegan food and you have to switch your mind to that so Yeah, you have to know your audience, I guess, is the first thing, isn't it? Yeah, I know I would be wanting to what challenges they think they might have. So if they're scared or worried about...
00:35:02
Speaker
cooking at home or or something like that or how how it might be difficult to have conversations with say partners or parents or that kind of thing or going away that kind of thing then to try and deal with the kind of immediate blockers that they might have whatever they are um it could be that they you know they go i'll give with a partner eats meat you know and and kind of i'm not sure how that's going to work and try and try and help them think through how they might be able to make that change but you know maintain that relationship for example so that kind of thing um and then yeah I'd be trying to make them aware of any information that was out there rather than me kind of just
00:35:39
Speaker
espousing everything is kind of like if they want sources of information on a particular area is I think one of the things that you can put completely at now is kind of knowing where to point people for certain stuff so you know I would be kind of just using my knowledge for that to try and point them in the right direction whether it's joining groups or looking at certain areas or certain studies that kind of thing really That's the great thing of experience though, isn't it? Is that your your knowledge only accumulates. you never for like You never like unlearn stuff. You never get worse at this. So over time, you're constantly going to know more and more places for information, more and more places for inspiration. it only gets better, doesn't it? Yeah. And I think know when you're either doing the stools or like when we did, you might remember we did the
00:36:23
Speaker
big vegan fairs in Worcester, you know, where we attracted like three and a thousand people, which back in the day was amazing. You know, you don't necessarily need those things so much now, but it was great back in the day.
Evolving Vegan Advocacy Methods
00:36:33
Speaker
And um I always remember, so you'd have maybe three or four of you on the stall and you'd have like maybe...
00:36:39
Speaker
Someone a bit older who was a bit more old school, animal rights, and then you'd have someone who's a bit younger. And if someone would come up with a question, if you didn't know, you you almost had the sort of a panel of expertise and you'd go, right, her I know this person's a better cook than me she's yeah So you'd go, hmm, what do you think we could, what would you use for this kind of making this cake or something like that? So you're kind of great. You put your minds together and you could, it wasn't really a question you can you couldn't respond to. was great. You know, always had ah a, very rarely stuck for kind of an answer to help people out.
00:37:09
Speaker
and not a vegan hive mind yeah exactly yeah it's a brainstorm thing so that was really good i mean i enjoyed that imparting information and people leaving that conversation whether it's either to go and buy a new product or try somewhere to eat or go and look at something and read something and you know leaving with a kind of all right yeah i'm heading off now and you think i've set them off maybe in the right direction you know i'm not not going to change them overnight or anything but maybe i've helped them you know that's that's that's that's a good thing Yeah, nice feeling, isn't it?
00:37:37
Speaker
Hypothetical question for you now. Let's let's imagine that your your journey to veganism has sort of culminated in 2024, the start of this year. How do you think that that journey would be different if it was starting now? I think it would be easier. i think, obviously, as we said before, the sources of information would be different and greater. flip side of that is that, to some degree, when you think about the internet, one of its positives and negatives is the amount of information out there. you know and the and the
00:38:12
Speaker
and the accuracy and the credibility and the way it's sort of presented is a flip side isn't it because it can be negative as well as as positive I don't think it would have changed my I don't think I'd have changed my journey in it being gradual I know very few people that have gone vegan overnight from being meat eaters I can think of a think of maybe a less than what could count on one hand and and and more power to them and great, but it's not, I don't think it's the usual way of doing things.
00:38:40
Speaker
um And so I don't, I don't, I don't think I would, it's not like I would think there's more stuff out there now that would change the way that happened And I'm pretty sure I'd go through a similar sort of journey, trying out different things, joining different groups. i I suspect now played a reasonable part in and kind of promoting the local scene, working with other people. And now, you know, for for various reasons, we're kind of more just like an online Facebook sort of presence. We don't sort do so much stuff. And that's partly because of time and various other things, but partly because the there's less there's less immediate need for it now.
Reflections and Lessons Learned
00:39:14
Speaker
And the return on putting all the effort in because doing those fairs,
00:39:18
Speaker
it's like eight months planning it was bloody hard work for yeah four or five of you and yeah you'd finish and you'd feel brilliant it was great but a lot of the things that i think the vegan movement do are often done without reviewing what the if it's efficient is it is it is it good use of time you know so so you can go and post a thousand leaflets and congratulate yourself about how brilliant that is but if no one's really read them then you're wasting your time so yeah absolutely well you you've kind of dipped into my last question there which which if you could go back to to the start of your journey again and and do it again is there anything you'd do differently ah ah If I'm being honest, I probably would have liked to have gone vegan overnight only because, you know, when you get to being kind of full vegan, you think I could have saved a few more animals, kind of wouldn't have been involved in the industry so much. So, yeah so, yeah, I guess ideal world that might be might might be the case. um
00:40:13
Speaker
yeah one thing I wish I had done I wish ah I wish I'd kind of invested more in sort of sort of ah maybe some vegan businesses or vegan products because I was always saying how great these things were and it was the future and everything like that if I had I'd kind of put my money where my mouth was just so I've invested in some of these things although I've done it now and it's not necessarily worked out but I would have probably liked to have been more on the cutting edge of that and having the the kind of having the kahunas to kind of do that sort of thing. I toyed with what I did actually um back in the day. I looked at investing in a vegan restaurant as a sort of side investment.
00:40:46
Speaker
Didn't happen in the end but a good job I didn't because that didn't work out but So I dabbled with those sort of things. It was like, you know, obviously I was on the board for the Veedan Society for a little while. that was a That was an interesting experience for not always good reasons and didn't get to make some of the changes i wanted to make there. So, yeah, I would probably play that slightly differently. We've not spoken about running. i kind of want to hear about i want to hear about your marathon. yeah Well, yeah, that's i mean that's that's something I'm a bit worried about, if you want to about this. So, yeah, I've entered into the Edinburgh Marathon next year, um which is in May.
00:41:23
Speaker
it's a hot one, isn't it? Yeah, and then I've entered the 30K around elland Valley Rider in March, not far away now, just to see how I can kind of do it. But I've never run more than half a marathon, and even... when I run them now my my legs feel dead so I'm I'm worried and want to know that my legs can carry me that far um but I've got looking to look into sort of doing more uh scientific things around gelling and and i eating the night before a bit more and and uh like looking at um stuff to deal with salt loss that kind of thing so I need to need to up my ante a bit on that I think really so um This is something I feel I can give some advice on from experience, yeah having having done lots of marathons. I would say in your training, ah particularly the long runs, slow down.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, i' I'm pretty pretty good at that. Bye bye. And yeah, just just make sure you're you're doing a long run every week because you you simply can't cut corners on that. And I think if you if you do it with enough build up,
00:42:28
Speaker
this is This is turning into a running podcast now, which is is is fine. um Yeah, if you, with enough enough build-up, so several months build-up before your target race, if you're once a week doing a long run, it really doesn't matter how slow you go. Like, you can walk bits of it if you're concerned. But, like, the the miles in your legs won't lie.
00:42:48
Speaker
yeah And that's that's going to get you there 90% of the time. Like you say, there's there's other factors in in terms of hydration and fueling. Mm-hmm. medical conditions and all that a lot but generally speaking if you've done the miles no matter at what speed will you be wearing the the vegan runners vest or running for a different course I have to say um um I do run with the vegan runners locally I started recently but um the vegan runners top I've got have to say isn't that comfortable so I tend to wear other ones yeah I've got one of the older ones and I probably need to buy one of the new ones, but it's a bit, so's ah the old stitch on the inside doesn't favour the nipples, should we say. So, um yeah, I need to look at But, you know, honestly, I've never run races for, particularly for courses, I've always just done them for me. so cool call call it selfish but i'm i'm kind of there for doing it um just kind of for self i guess for self gratification to some degree so uh yeah neither i guess is the answer to your question well i think uh getting out there and uh making yourself feel good is gonna ultimately benefit the animals anyway and if you've got a if you've got a slightly uncomfortable vegan runner's vest that you put on from time to time that's an added bonus too paul thank you so much for your time it's been a real pleasure and um Yeah, I know that that will have been very helpful to a lot of people.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:44:05
Speaker
Great stuff. Thank you.
00:44:14
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:44:29
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:44:55
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:45:16
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:45:31
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.