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Veganuary 2026: Luke's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
97 Plays15 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from occasional Falafeller, Luke!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 33 directly https://zencastr.com/z/5c8dskjX
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Luke & Ant
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions.
Special Veganuary Episodes
00:00:17
Speaker
And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those. So it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors. We really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026.
Luke's Vegan Journey Begins
00:00:54
Speaker
Luke, thank you so much for giving us your time today. Really interested to to hear about your vegan story. You've given me a couple of sentences in a Facebook Messenger conversation to sort of titillate me, but I don't know much more than that. So I'm really looking forward to to hearing about things. We'll start things off as as we often do in this series by you going as far back as you can to trace the start or the first signs that veganism might have been something that could feature in your life one day? How how far back can you trace it?
00:01:26
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, I'll probably start when maybe I was a little bit younger, and just sort of paint a picture of what it was like growing up. When I was younger, I was a really fussy eater.
00:01:38
Speaker
And when we had, you know, something like a Sunday roast, I would only eat the meat and maybe the mashed potato off the plate. And my parents would make me sit at the dinner table for what felt like hours until I ate all my vegetables.
00:01:55
Speaker
um I had to, well, I basically used to sneak off to the bathroom with pockets of cauliflower and flush it down the toilet just to get rid of it. I didn't really like to try new things. So as you can imagine, when I went vegan, my parents genuinely couldn't believe it, you know, sort of the polar opposite of what I used to be like.
00:02:16
Speaker
Again, when I was sort of growing up, i went fishing with my dad, um never really saw a problem with it. You know, my dad was always really careful when he was handling the fish. And once they've been reeled in, we have a quick look at the fish and then put them back in the pond and watch them swim off. So again, never really saw any problems with that. Typical kid used to love going to zoos, um fascinated by all the animals.
00:02:43
Speaker
um And then when I did eventually leave home and I can afford a membership. I got ah a Chester Zoo membership for a couple of years and I'd go just you know to watch the orangutans, the chimpanzees and you know all the great apes. and I used to look at them and and think, wow, you know these animals are just so much like I didn't really make that connection to how alien that environment must have been with you know crowds of people just staring at them through the glass. so
00:03:15
Speaker
I'd always say I was an animal lover. um you know I wouldn't ever want to hurt an animal, but at the same time, I never really made that connection that my lifestyle and choices did have you know effects on these on these animals.
Awakening to Animal Welfare
00:03:32
Speaker
I think probably the earliest trigger for me, maybe thinking of animals as sort of sentient beings was my wife and I went walking through the Lake Districts probably around 12 years ago, and we came across an abandoned lamb.
00:03:50
Speaker
and um the lamb was really weak and appeared malnourished because what normally happens with ewes when they give birth, they often give birth to twins and they don't always give enough time to one of them. They'll sort of look after the one that seems the strongest and the other one tends to get neglected.
00:04:11
Speaker
We somehow got hold of the local farmer. I can't remember how, but we managed to to to maybe speak somebody and they they contacted him. and he eventually turned up on his quad bike and scooped this little lamb up put it on his knee and then drove off and i thought you know we've done a really good thing there you know we've we've saved that lamb but then not realizing at the time he probably took it back to the farm and killed it so after this i just couldn't bring myself to to eat lamb i just couldn't imagine you know subjecting these babies which is essentially what they are don't know exploitation harm
00:04:49
Speaker
Um, so I guess that was probably the earliest trigger for me is, is when I stopped eating lamb and then maybe fast forward to 2019, 2022, sorry, 2020, like a lot of people during lockdown, we, we got a dog.
00:05:03
Speaker
I very, very quickly formed a really strong bond with him and, you know, quickly realized how intelligent he was and how I could read his emotions and he could read mine. And we had a really good connection.
00:05:19
Speaker
One night after work, I was scrolling through Instagram and one of my friends shared a story about beagle puppies being bred in a facility in Cambridgeshire that were bred for the vivisection industry.
00:05:34
Speaker
it It sort of hooked me. I sort of started reading into, you know, what happens to these dogs and in animal testing in this country. I sort of looked at my dog and thought, wow, I could never imagine subjecting him to that sort of pain and misery.
00:05:50
Speaker
And suddenly became really interested in sort of animal rights. And ah quickly joined a ah group of people who were ah again it's you know against vivisection and against animal testing, you know came quite heavily involved with the campaign and obviously surrounded myself with other animal rights activists.
Activism and Diet Transition
00:06:09
Speaker
And it sort of stemmed from them, I guess.
00:06:11
Speaker
Was that specifically the Camp Beagle group or was that a wider sort of anti-vivisection group? Yeah, I mean, it was originally Camp Beagle and then it sort of, you could call it it sort of stemmed off into other areas as well. Yeah, other groups. Yeah, yeah. It it can quickly, I mean, the the nature of these things is this as soon as you sort of open one box it it then leads to several others doesn't it i'm I'm interested into how you're seeing yourself in this in this transition that you're talking about because that you've described a point am I right in understanding about 10 years ago where you've stopped eating lamb yeah are you seeing yourself in a slightly different way there or you or were you how is that being conveyed to other people like presumably at some point you're having to say to somebody or like I don't eat lamb or is it is it just like when you're making the decision, you're when you're able to make the decision, you're choosing not to eat it. Is that something that's featuring at all? Or is that does that come much, much later?
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, so I never really told people that I didn't specifically eat lamb. It wasn't a case of you know being against that in a sense. It was just my decision if I was in a restaurant and lamb was on the menu, I would never pick it.
00:07:20
Speaker
yeah But I never really had a a really strong sort of opposition to other people doing it. I just thought it was, yeah, I guess I thought it was maybe morally wrong from my point of view, but based on the experience that I'd had with this land that at the time I thought I had saved.
00:07:36
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, when I got involved with this anti-vivisection campaign, I was saying to myself, and it was a bit of ah a weird one because for a long time i was battling against my sort of subconscious, is it a subconscious? Maybe there's a voice in the back of my head where it was saying, you know, you're a little bit of a hypocrite here because On one hand, you know you're advocating and trying to you know liberate these animals from these well prisons, essentially, where they're just tools for an industry.
00:08:12
Speaker
But then on the other hand, you're paying for other animals, farm animals, to suffer and die just because you want to eat them. um And I was somebody who, maybe a little bit off tangent, but I was somebody who at every single meal, I would have animal products. I would have steak and egg for breakfast every single day.
00:08:34
Speaker
i would have you know dairy protein yogurts. I would have chicken and rice for my lunch. I'd then have you know, a dairy protein shake in the afternoon, I'd have some other animal protein for tea. And this was for probably five or six years where it was heavily based on eating animal products.
00:08:52
Speaker
So, you know, I was definitely not somebody who was vegetarian or or could even entertain that sort of lifestyle. You know, i was a fussy eater. i I could only really manage with animal foods. So, yeah, I mean, I guess I was a little bit of a hypocrite when I joined the animal rights movement because, as you can imagine, most people are vegan or at the very least vegetarian.
00:09:15
Speaker
um And I'd never told them that I still ate meat. Yeah, and I was going to say, was that challenged at all? Or or does is that something that doesn't necessarily need to come up in the conversation?
00:09:26
Speaker
um Well, i remember being on a Zoom call with the guys in my team and we had a discussion with, you may or may not have heard of him, a guy called Dr. Andre Manesh.
00:09:36
Speaker
I don't know them by name. No, he he's basically, ah um he's a guy who's been in the industry for a long time and He's an animal rights activist, but also a scientist. And he he helped shut down MBR acres in Italy. So he's a huge advocate for you know liberating animals from vivisection.
00:09:54
Speaker
I remember being on a Zoom call and somebody brought up the subject of veganism and how we can get more vegans engaged with anti-vivisection campaigns. And I was just sat on this Zoom call thinking,
00:10:05
Speaker
I'm not even vegan. I'm not even vegetarian. I just kept mouth shut. I didn't tell anybody. Yeah. um And I think what probably helped me go towards veganism was surrounding myself with other like-minded people who were against the exploitation of animals. And Maybe I, as I said earlier, saw myself as a little bit of a hypocrite and then changed. I mean, sometimes i think we all live ah with elements of contradiction in our lives, don't we? I think there's ah a trope or a meme, if you like, that goes around vegan circles. in terms of us sort of saying, oh, you know, all this cognitive dissonance that meat eaters have. but But we all have cognitive dissonance in our lives. We all have things where we we silence that little voice in our head because actually very often life doesn't allow us to completely line everything up, all of our actions with our beliefs. Yes, if we're vegan, we might feel like we're we're doing that with a big proportion of our life, but I guarantee there'll be some contradiction in there for everybody. So I think we have to be real with that. And it's, I think that's what's really valuable having this conversation with you.
00:11:11
Speaker
it was it a case that you were, don't want to dwell on it too long, Luke, because there's far more for us to talk about. But is there a case that you you're feeling like you're, you're doing some good by being involved in this anti vivisection community?
00:11:26
Speaker
And actually, that's where you're, you're putting your
Community Support and Challenges
00:11:28
Speaker
energy. So that's kind of almost justifying or meaning that you're you're not addressing those areas, those other areas of your life? Yeah, I mean, at that time, I thought I was doing a really good thing. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, nobody would agree that animal cruelty is acceptable, but then we all pay for it, you know, three times a day when we have a meal.
00:11:47
Speaker
yeah um And I think over time, I sort of learned that I was a hypocrite because i was obviously trying to help animals in laboratories, but... Well, you were. Well, yeah, I guess I was, but... You were helping them. Yeah. Yeah, but then, you know, was advocating, as you said, this cognitive dissonance where i was advocating for one group of animals whilst exploiting another.
00:12:10
Speaker
You know, whilst I was eating all these animal products over time, you know, I couldn't eat a chicken breast without cutting it up into tiny pieces because I just didn't want to associate it with an animal.
00:12:22
Speaker
You know, i i enjoyed the taste, obviously, but at the same time, i didn't really enjoy the meal because I sort of made this connection of what it was. And I did slowly cut back on what types of animals I was eating. You know, I'd cut out red meat first. I don't know why, but I just stopped eating red meat.
00:12:43
Speaker
And then eventually i cut out chicken. And then I cut out fish. And then very quickly after I cut out fish, I learned about the egg and dairy industry and then cut those out. And I was vegan. And did did you say it was being surrounded by vegans that that sort of had a big a big sort of catalyst on that?
00:13:02
Speaker
I think that helped because most people, not all of them, but most people in the animal rights movement are vegans. And obviously, if you're friends with them on social media, you know they will share videos and pictures of vegans.
00:13:19
Speaker
or even you know news stories about animals that have been exploited and suffering in different industries so you you do very very quickly learn about those other industries which you would probably wouldn't learn about if you weren't in those circles so i think that i think that did help but it also helped when I realized that I was a hypocrite, because like i said, I've said a few times that, you know, I was advocating for a group of animals whilst paying for the exploitation and murder of others. And that just didn't sit right with me. And then over time, I eventually changed. But the frustrating thing is, is when I advocate for veganism now, and I think most vegans would probably agree, is that
00:14:01
Speaker
you want people to go vegan overnight. You see it so clearly, but in reality that doesn't happen. yeah You know, most people transition slowly.
00:14:12
Speaker
So it's about planting seeds and making people wake up. And I'm obviously glad I did. So what I'm hearing from you, Luke, is that there's, there's parts of your lifestyle in terms of the food that you're, that you eat. that in a sense is is quite an obstacle, that's quite a change to go from eating such an animal derived, rich animal derived diets to one that completely excludes it. But then on the other hand, you do have a community that is sort of very vegan ready.
00:14:43
Speaker
if you like, in terms of the support that they can offer or the role models or what have you. what what What about the rest of your life? Would you say that that offered things that made a vegan transition pretty straightforward or with were there other significant obstacles that you that you needed to overcome? Not really, no. So once I learned about the egg and dairy industry, I didn't even dwell on that. It was like, right, I'm done with that now.
00:15:06
Speaker
And again, I like these products. you know Everyone always says the same thing. It's not the fact we don't like the taste of something. It's just in the back of your mind, you know what you're doing is wrong. So for me, it was actually pretty easy, to be honest with you. Once I'd made my mind up, that was it.
00:15:21
Speaker
It wasn't a case of me trying to drag this process out as long as possible. I guess it helped that when I went vegan, my wife went vegan. I think that would have made it maybe a little bit tricky. Some people may be able to work around it, but I think that would be an obstacle for some people. Is she sort of going on this metaphorical journey with you in terms of like she's hearing about the stuff that you're doing with the anti-vivisection? You know, she's got a dog at the same time or is it slightly different?
00:15:49
Speaker
um So she she wasn't necessarily involved in the anti-vivisection campaign, although she did you know i I spoke about it and she sort of looked into it and occasionally helped out. I mean, she's a bit more of a foodie than I am. So you know maybe she found the vegan transition a little bit harder.
00:16:06
Speaker
As a lot of people always say, cheese is the hardest thing to give up and it was for her. But yeah, yeah she she went along with it with me. Yeah, I think that made it a little bit easier.
00:16:18
Speaker
i think that one of the challenges that a lot of people will come across is if you haven't got a a network of people or a circle of people who share the same beliefs as you and the same morals as you, then obviously that can be quite hard to navigate because you're constantly questioning yourself then.
00:16:38
Speaker
You're constantly questioning what you're doing is right. And obviously you're getting a lot of opposition to that. you know We live in a carnish world and being a vegan isn't easy or it's not always easy.
00:16:49
Speaker
So I think it's good to have a good network of people who share the same ideology as you, you know whether that be through an animal rights campaign, you know group ah join a group of people who are campaigning for animals or whether you do like, don't know, a vegan running club or or whatever, just try and find like-minded people who can support you and talk to you and and help you if you need them. Yeah, it can make the world of difference, can't it it? It sounds to me like once you've, you've talked about eliminating different sort of animal food groups, if you like, once you get to that egg and dairy stage, that's, that's sort of it. That's when you're, you're having this resolution, like, right, and I need to, need to just do this now. And and and what I'm hearing is ah a large amount of resolve there that you're you're sort of very determined. Were there nonetheless things that you were a bit fearful of or concerns that you had about making that transition? and
Mindset Shift and Enjoyment
00:17:43
Speaker
Not really, no. I mean, again, I go back to the point when i was younger, was a really fussy eater. So even that didn't put me off. I was just in the back of my mind, I thought, as long as I'm not contributing to this industry,
00:17:55
Speaker
I don't care. You know, I'll happily not necessarily give these things up because you're not really giving them up. You're just not taking something that doesn't belong to you. um Really good point. Really good point. It's not, easy you don't, you don't, when you go vegan, you don't give things up.
00:18:10
Speaker
it's not a case of giving these things up it's um a lot of people see it that way but it's not it's not about you i don't know i think if you if you've got strong morals and ethics then they should be the driving force force behind it and for me you know in the back of my mind i was always thinking about these animals and you know if i have to quote unquote give up these products and so be it i'll just make do with something else but you know again i used to eat a lot of animal protein and that's what all my meals were centered around. So I went from that to, you know, eating plant-based protein and found it incredibly easy.
00:18:46
Speaker
You can basically substitute all your favorite meals with plant-based foods and I enjoy them. You know, I enjoy plant-based foods now. I never did, but I do now. And I never thought I'd ever say that.
00:18:58
Speaker
and And that's the thing with with vegan journeys, I think, is that they they rarely pan out exactly as we would have thought with with foresight. You know, there are always surprises along the way. I mean, you you mentioned at the very start of our conversation that think you were saying your parents would never believe that this would be something you would do given you know how you used to eat. What what was the response of of others around you when you presumably at some point you've you're telling people, right, I'm vegan now. What was their response? Yeah, so I think this is probably one of the hardest things for some people. um You know, it's not actually difficult talking to a non-vegan who you don't know about veganism.
00:19:38
Speaker
It's harder to talk to people you do know and people you do care about because when you don't necessarily get the response you'd expect from them, where they don't necessarily share the same compassion as you for animals, it can be incredibly frustrating. You know, people that you love and care about not necessarily caring as much as you do about animals, you know, you try and educate them, you try and talk to them about these things and you sort of hit a brick wall. I mean, my parents are definitely people you'd class ethical and people who I'd say do like animals, you know, um but they just can't make that connection to veganism.
00:20:21
Speaker
It's, some it is frustrating. But you know they were supportive. you know For example, we yeah we went away at Christmas and most of the meals that we had were were vegan. you know Everyone ate vegan pretty much. right yeah yeah ah mom My dad and my younger brother had turkey with christmas but with have a Christmas dinner, but the rest of you know all the meals we had were were pretty much all vegan. so um you know They make the effort. My in-laws, they buy us vegan treats. you know If they're in the supermarket whatever they'll and they see some vegan product, they'll go, oh, I'll buy that for Luke and Lila. And um yeah, i mean, that's nice. That's thoughtful. So it's um it's frustrating, but they deal with it.
00:21:04
Speaker
And actually, that's a relatively positive response. Like you say, really would you you'd you'd want somebody to come hear the argument and then completely you know jump in with with feet first to to live their life in the same way but actually like what can happen is a even more extreme example of of what you're describing there where somebody really takes umbrage with the fact that you're you're basically particularly with parents you're almost saying by definition of being vegan that that
00:21:36
Speaker
moral code that you raised me with, I'm now questioning, I'm challenging and I'm saying actually it wasn't as moral as it could have been. and so I think parents in particular can give the the strongest rebuke sometimes because it feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth for them. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I've i've heard that before as well. um And it's absolutely right. You know, you're basically going against everything that they taught you is is right. And you're questioning the morals that they've set you as a person. So with parents, you know, I think they can take it maybe
00:22:08
Speaker
a little bit more personally than friends, for example. But yes yeah, i mean, they have been supportive. Obviously, a lot of questions. I had a lot of debates in the early days with them. My mum's a vegetarian, but she just she's one of these people who just uses that silly argument, I can't give up cheese.
00:22:22
Speaker
You know, it's frustrating, but it is what it is. um but What about others around you, Luke, like in terms of friends, work colleagues, things like that? as What's the reception been like? I moved to Manchester about 12 or 13 years ago.
00:22:37
Speaker
So most of my friends, well, I had to make new friends basically when I moved here. And I've always been a bit of an introvert. So I don't need a massive group of friends like some people do. The friends that I had here were basically friends through my wife, if that makes sense. So I inherited her friends. yeah um And a couple of them were already vegan.
00:22:56
Speaker
when they went vegan i didn't really think anything of it i didn't really again make any connection there but since we went vegan they've been really supportive um so yeah the there's only one other vegan in my office who i get on quite well with and he's been vegan for a sort six or seven years he never really brought it up but i knew he was vegan so i can talk to him but everyone everyone else is a typical carnist you know they ask questions and things but you know I can't see them ever going vegan to be honest can I ask then Luke so I'm really glad that we're having this conversation especially because your vegan transition is relatively recent so actually in terms of relevance to listeners there's a there's potentially a lot of things in your context that are even more relatable
00:23:41
Speaker
than somebody who went vegan 52 years ago, for example. What what have been the the things that you would say have helped your transition to to changing what you're eating and changing that lifestyle the most? Okay, so yeah, I mean, one of the main things was obviously educate yourself on different
Education and Health Benefits
00:23:59
Speaker
parts of the industry. So what happens to animals?
00:24:02
Speaker
And then i also found vegan YouTube channels like Airplane Ed, Joey Carbstrong, carnism debunked who you know all go through the different arguments against veganism so for example if you get into a conversation with someone and you know they try and make out like what you're doing is is wrong then at least you've got a sensible answer to give them so for example if somebody says to you oh i don't really see the point in going vegan because
00:24:33
Speaker
vegans kill more animals in crop harvesting, to a person who isn't educated on how to answer that, you may start questioning yourself and think, well, yeah, maybe veganism isn't actually helping animals, when in actual fact, that argument is just appealing to hypocrisy and is a load of nonsense.
00:24:51
Speaker
So I think learning the The vegan arguments, um educating yourself on you know statistics, that obviously helped a lot. Obviously joining groups with other like-minded people who share the same ideology as you so that you've got a support network if you ever want to talk to somebody.
00:25:09
Speaker
think those things helped. In terms of... the diet side of things. Again, we we found that quite easy. So we enjoyed making curries. So rather than having chicken in a curry, we'd have chip pea and lentils and we'd just basically swap out all our favorite foods with plant-based ones. So we found that quite easy. I think that's really reassuring to to hear because I think a lot of people will assume I mean, particularly if I can say from your case, you've described, you know, quite how many animal products you're consuming to to swap that out for a lot of people would fill them with a lot of foreboding, but actually,
00:25:47
Speaker
once once you do it like human beings are incredibly adaptable aren't they and actually you know you you can completely change the way that you eat the way that you live where you live your life lifestyle like we really adapt quite well don't we like it's it's not the end of the world at all yeah definitely yeah i mean i it was not even a shock to the system so when i eventually said to myself right i'm not eating egg and dairy anymore. i wasn't like, what am im going to eat?
00:26:15
Speaker
You know, I just immediately just got on with it. And it's not even like we used all those transition foods. So we don't really eat many fake meats, you know, things like that. So we we mainly eat or we try to mainly whole plant foods. So it's, you know, really healthy stuff.
00:26:32
Speaker
I used to get like joint problems, you know, like my joints would ache, sort of my shoulders would ache a lot. and i don't really get any of that now it might be a pure you know complete coincidence but i think i know dairy is a bit of an inflammatory food so whether it's the fact i've cut out dairy and i don't get these aches and pains like i used to but you know i ah genuinely feel healthier and um i mean i'm only 33 but like i want to look after my body you know i don't want to get into old age with horrible diseases and things. And, you know, if we just look at the science behind a plant based diet, it's amazing what it can do for your body. So, you know, even if you go into veganism based on you know, the consequence of being vegan is being healthier, then great, just
00:27:21
Speaker
Do it for that. Can I ask then, do you think the how how straightforward the the food transition has been? Has that been the biggest surprise for you of your vegan journey? Have there been there been other other positive surprises or negative surprises for that matter that that have jumped out at you? Yeah. I mean, again, ah from somebody who was a fussy eater, i i didn't really struggle.
00:27:46
Speaker
There was always something for me to eat. and We managed to, again, as i said, base substitute all of our normal foods and meals that we had with plant-based ones. And it just wasn't difficult. I think the hardest thing is living in a non-vegan world when you know how oppressive humans are to animals.
00:28:06
Speaker
You know, that's probably the hardest thing to live with each day, you know, um I think vegans make up something like 1% of the population. So we are a tiny minority. you know There's a thing called, I think it's Vistopia, something like that. Yeah, that's right. It's like the trauma for vegans living in a non-vegan world. you know We have to deal with a lot of trauma you know by educating ourselves on these industries and And by putting up with a lot of stick from non-vegans and it it can be hard. It can be really stressful and sometimes you can feel lonely. But again, I think if you find a network of people who you know can support you when you maybe feel a little bit down or or when you need help, then that makes it a lot easier.
00:28:51
Speaker
And is that for for you, is that network of people say like an online community that you, that you chat to, or is it groups that you are going out doing things with? Like what form does that take for you? Yeah. So um little bit of both. So obviously with the anti-vivisection stuff, um it's definitely been a bit of both.
00:29:10
Speaker
um Obviously, you know, you're talking to these people on a regular basis and, you know, you you might do outreach and things. And then also, I'm currently my first season of Huntsabbing.
Direct Action and Support for Others
00:29:24
Speaker
So taking direct action against people who go out killing wildlife. So that's quite stressful, um quite traumatic. But, you know, you you again, within a group of people who very passionate, very supportive and it it massively helps.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah, golly. So that's, tell tell us a bit about that in terms of, you've touched on how how it feels and um what that involves, but yeah, it's not something I've ever experienced. and Yeah, so ah again, I think I learned about fox hunting in this country through friends within the animal rights movement. um A lot of them shared footage and and information online about it. And it sort of sparked my interest. I mean, I thought Fox on it ended 20 years ago when the band came into play, but it didn't.
00:30:13
Speaker
So I contacted my local Huntsab group Well, actually, before I contacted them, I used to, you know, comment on their posts, you know, wish them support, send them donations for fuel so they can, you know, keep going out to try and stop these people killing animals. And then one day I did message my local group and they said they were going to do like a recruitment drive in the near future. So I said, oh, great. Just let me know when and I'll pop in and and have a chat.
00:30:40
Speaker
And they did one in Manchester. So I went down, listened to what they had to say, and they didn't try and make it out to be sunshine and rainbows. you know They were very brutally honest about what happens. You know you go out,
00:30:54
Speaker
you know, you're subject to incredible violence and aggression from people, you know, people who will try and run you over or ride ride their horses into you or come up to you and and start punching you. You know, they were very, very clear of what happens. And, but at the same time, they were said it's incredibly rewarding. So, you know, I joined them and, um,
00:31:17
Speaker
Say it's my first season, i've probably been out 10 or 11 times. It's great. you know Great group of people who you know you all trust each other. And you all share the same goal and that's to save animals. So that's really rewarding. Wow.
00:31:33
Speaker
Well, that sounds fabulous. We're we're hoping to feature ah a special edition of Vegan Talk in February covering hunting and and sabbing because it it could get a lot more coverage than it it seems to in in both both mainstream but also vegan media. um a lot of the time. So yeah, I'm hoping to learn lots more about it, but it it it seems to be something, like you say, it's it's the season for it at at the moment, isn't it? yeah um So yeah, lots to learn there and fabulous that that so many people are are involved in it. Can I ask Luke, you've you've been vegan for for a year or so, before that you've been involved in in animal rights and your your vegan transition is is quite fresh in a sense.
00:32:18
Speaker
Obviously, lots of different people come towards veganism and and need different things depending on their situation and depending on the people they are. There's lots of support that is out there for people making that that journey. Could you put your finger on anything that you think...
00:32:36
Speaker
the community could do a bit better to support people who were going through that transition? I don't really know because i was somebody who went out of my way to try and educate myself on it. So I would read into the different industries and and learn as much as I could. I obviously joined...
00:32:56
Speaker
for example, of this anti-vivisection group who, you know, they were very knowledgeable and they helped me learn about it. And then I would follow pages on, them sorry, channels on YouTube, ah like Earthly Ned, for example, is amazing because he's got a playlist of short videos, you know, three or four minutes on,
00:33:14
Speaker
what happens to dairy cows, what happens to chickens, what happens to pigs, you know, so it breaks down all these different sort of rights violations so that you can learn really easily. And then on YouTube as well, there's different channels for fitness. So if you're somebody you who's into running or weightlifting and you want to do that vegan, then, know, they'll tell you about different meals to prep, to get your protein, to get your carbs, to get your fats, you You know, there's a a vegan channel for everything. So I think, you know, if I went vegan 20 years ago, I think it'd be probably a lot harder than it is now because with modern technology, we can access all this information so easily. So I think we've got it, in a sense, quite lucky. with With a couple of exceptions.
00:33:58
Speaker
things are things are always getting easier i mean there's a ah fun little fun little rhyme that is new level new devil which i i quite like that sort of says that even if things are getting easier or even if you're kind of progressing at something there's going to be new challenges and i think that is the same with veganism but generally speaking i think it's it's getting easier that that said then do you think it sounds like ah a key turning point for you was was living with a dog um if that had happened i don't know shortly after you rescued a sheep or at least felt like you'd rescued a sheep at the time. Do you think that that vegan journey would have started then would the practicalities and the the culture of 10 years ago that's not as vegan friendly, let's say, do do you think that might have prevented that or what do you think?
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point. So i don't know really. i mean, when I got Arnie, he we we formed a really strong bond really quickly. um You know, we we we treat him like a child.
00:34:59
Speaker
You know, he he's like a baby to us. And for people who don't have dogs, they probably don't understand what that's like. But, you know, when you've got a dog who, you know, you care so much about, it's it's probably a bit more easy to understand. But I don't know, maybe, maybe um if we got him 10, 11, 12 years ago after the incident with the lamb,
00:35:21
Speaker
maybe I would have thought about it a lot earlier. Because I definitely think he was a big trigger in me going towards veganism, or at least animal rights, because I could relate to him as a sentient being.
00:35:37
Speaker
You know, he made me wake up to the fact, you know, these animals aren't just soulless drones, you know, they have feelings and they have wants. And yeah, he sort of woke me up to that and made me realize. So, yeah, he definitely helped a lot. Well, I guess guess we never know with these things. And, you know, life's a funny old thing and goes in in many different ways, doesn't it? But... um Yeah. So to finish off with Luke, there's going to be people listening who are thinking about becoming vegan or they've just started their journey.
00:36:13
Speaker
What would you say if they were sat down in front of you now? I would probably say to them just to do their research on where their food comes from.
00:36:23
Speaker
Actually look into these marketing labels. Look at what actually free range means. You know, look at what RSPCA assured is. Look what red tractor assurances are.
00:36:37
Speaker
Look at what grass fed actually means. It's all nonsense. It's just me. It exists purely to make you sleep better at night about eating those products. I mean, that was one of the big things for me when I learned about these assurance schemes and these labels that were on products.
00:36:53
Speaker
I couldn't believe that I'd been conned for 30 odd years of my life. if you If you are somebody who classes themselves as an animal lover or somebody who is against cruelty or oppression, the only way is to be vegan. it it' Again, when I try and advocate for veganism, I want people to become vegan there and then, but in reality, it doesn't happen.
00:37:19
Speaker
eaten these people have got to make the decision themselves but do your research actually look into it just try and align your your actions with your morals because nobody agrees of animal cruelty but you're paying for animals to suffer three times a day for an arbitrary meal you know that you forget about within a week it's it's it's really not it's not difficult luke thank you so much for your time it's been brilliant to speak and um i know that lots of people will have will have found that really valuable so thank you Yeah, thanks for having me on.
00:37:49
Speaker
Thank you very
00:38:01
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production.
Podcast Production and Listener Invitation
00:38:04
Speaker
We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:38:16
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:38:42
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:39:03
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:39:18
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.