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Veganuary 2026: Sam's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2025)
89 Plays11 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from the lovely Sam!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 130 directly https://zencastr.com/z/EG5Gxa_7
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Sam & Ant
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions.
Special Veganuary Episodes
00:00:17
Speaker
And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those so it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors we really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026
00:00:50
Speaker
Sam, thank you so much for joining
Sam's Early Vegetarian Influences
00:00:52
Speaker
us. we've ah We've met mere minutes ago, so I'm going to be learning about you and your vegan journey exactly the same speed as our listeners, which is really exciting. And we'll start things off how we always do on these episodes. And I'm going to ask you to go back as far as you can into the past and kind of almost with your detective glasses on, the first sort of tiniest little seed of possibility that one day in the future you might be sitting here as a vegan. How far can you trace it back? What was the first little sign?
00:01:30
Speaker
Well, um when I was born, my dad was a vegetarian. So ah so it goes quite back a long way. So I was sort of aware of vegetarianism. And ah my dad's sort of um attitude towards that.
00:01:44
Speaker
um And but I don't think my mum wasn't vegetarian. So we didn't. So he he must have eaten different foods to us. i think we, you know, was this fairly sort standard kind of dinners we were getting. This is back in the 70s, you know. So ah i think I went vegetarian for a while when I was about eight, I think.
00:02:07
Speaker
So something, obviously, I think he must I must have been listening to what he said, really.
Transition to Veganism in the 90s
00:02:12
Speaker
After that, i I became a bit of a sort of ah carnivore. and um And was just, ah so this was about sort of the age of about nine to, I went vegetarian when and i was 14.
00:02:26
Speaker
And so I was just eating lots of meat and didn't really, wasn't really thinking about it, but some something happened. I think trying to think, it's a long time ago. So i think probably i came across, you know, leaflets with the, you know, like not necessarily vegan, but kind of anti-visection leaflets, um that sort of stuff, probably from from town, you know, people, know,
00:02:54
Speaker
protesting in town and I think it's suddenly just I just thought you know what I can't do this it was like I suppose it sort of was like um you know I was maturing so was becoming an adult know at the age of 14 I said I was much becoming much more sort of politically aware mean you it wasn't like knew everything by any means but I was and I just thought this is there's something wrong about this you know so was became vegetarian and and um And I
Challenges of Social Settings
00:03:21
Speaker
stuck to it. And it it wasn't too hard. I was i was eating a lot of friends' houses. And they were they were quite um they were very accommodating.
00:03:30
Speaker
But it was ah when I was 20, went vegan. So i've I've been vegan like 32 years. Yeah. Wow. So it's quite hard to think back, you know, how how it was. But i remember um my wife. So I was with so i was with her then. We'd just got together. And she she decides to go vegan.
00:03:49
Speaker
And um I think literally a week later, I joined her. um and And I think it was just, you know, like when you'd been vegetarian for a while, don't, you know, back in, so this was, so this was being sort of, um let's think, 1992.
00:04:06
Speaker
you know, the idea that being vegetarian wasn't good enough was, it wasn't really on the radar. You know, a lot of people were vegetarian and they were quite happy with that. And they didn't really think much about it. And it, and it um and I think, you know,
00:04:19
Speaker
for me and my wife to become vegan, and it was quite a rare step, actually. it was quite, you know, there wasn't many people doing it. But I suddenly realised that there was this sort of connection between the milk industry and, you know, um and the meat industry.
Family and Cultural Influences
00:04:35
Speaker
I mean, basically, let you know, um I think then I stopped, because I think probably I was still wearing leather up to I mean, it was like one of those weird things that you could be vegetarian, but people still wearing leather and stuff. And you just wouldn't dream of doing that now, don't think. But it was a bit more.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's a bit more woolly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that word Yeah, yeah. Quite, quite a fitting, fitting adjective there. I'm i'm interested if we can go back a step to um have have you spoken to your dad about like why he was vegetarian? Because like vegetarian in the 70s, like that's that's very unusual, really. Yeah, I'm not really sure. I don't know what I'll have to ask him again. I mean, I'm sure i spoke to him about it. But, you know, it's one of those things that I mean, he's vegan now. So we just, you know, we're all like these old vegans that have just been doing it for years. We don't really talk about it much anymore. It's just a kind of a standard thing. And um and in fact, my mum is is um certainly vegetarian. She's and she's predominantly vegan a lot of the time. But.
00:05:33
Speaker
think she still has her moments or weaknesses with some things. but So I imagine he they just came out... They weren't exactly like proper hippies, you know, but they they came out of that kind of sort of seen I suppose and um I mean they had me when they were quite young so they got married at like 18 I think so they were sort like they were probably hippies until they were kind of launched into the the world of um you know being responsible parents now and everything so but he must have just got it from that time i suppose from the 60s really when there would have been
00:06:07
Speaker
vegetarians around and somehow i don't, yeah, I'll have
Commitment to Veganism
00:06:10
Speaker
to ask him. be true Yeah, yeah. Like you say, that sort of um atmosphere of challenging norms, I suppose, that that came with a lot of the kind of liberalism of the 60s. You can see how it could then lead into the food that you eat as well. But yeah, you' you'll have to ask him and and and get back to us. But yeah, that'd be interesting.
00:06:31
Speaker
um I mean, it sounds to me like I mean, you you meet some people who go vegan or they kind of go through that transition and they're completely by themselves. Like they don't know anybody who's ever kind of challenged what they eat and and thought about it in a critical way. Like I'm assuming that coming to it, like the fact that you've mentioned your wife had started a few days before you decided, and obviously you've grown up with your dad being vegetarian. Do you think that made things a little easier? Yeah, undoubtedly, I suppose. um Especially yeah my dad being vegetarian. I mean, i just growing up with someone that had um sort of convictions and stuck stuck to these convictions, i think it was quite inferential, you know. so And the idea that that was, um ah you know, so ah possible thing. I mean, as as you say, I think a lot of people...
00:07:19
Speaker
can become vegetarian or vegan and the whole family goes into meltdown because, you know, they're just like, oh my God. You know, but I didn't really have that. And um and i was I was actually, I mean, at at that time, most of my friends were vegetarian and I have to say,
00:07:35
Speaker
To my horror, ah most most of them have gone back to being carnivores. and and i've Oh, wow. and they And quite a long time ago. And I found that quite shocking um because being vegan to me is ah is a you know a sacrifice I will never give up on. I mean, unless I was absolutely starving, it was a kind of you know world as a meltdown and i was at hunt to survive.
00:07:59
Speaker
ah don't don't really see why I would i would ever... eat animals or, you know,
Ethical Stance Against Meat and Dairy
00:08:05
Speaker
again. um Obviously, you know, there is a, um we're lucky to be in England who can do it. and Obviously, some parts of the world, it's not so easy to do.
00:08:16
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, I've sort of done quite a bit of travel and always managed to stay vegan, actually. And and a lot of the time it's just about feeding yourself, isn't it? I mean, that was that was the thing I think that made becoming vegan quite easy is that I was already cooking when I was younger. learned to cook at a young age.
00:08:33
Speaker
and um just making things like curries vegetable curry or vegetable chili or so it's just like you know i was making food anyway because it was i didn't have any money i was you know surviving off not a lot so we had i had to cook for myself anyway and that was easy and and and um you know like When I've been abroad, yeah we just avoid restaurants generally. It's not so bad now, in the last decade or so, but back in the 90s, you could be in a you know in something like France and you you literally couldn't find anything to eat, so you had to feed yourself. so But of course, you go in the shop, there's vegetables, tins of beans, rice. It's all there. It's always been there. So as long as you're you know self-sufficient, there's never been a problem. So yeah, making that...
00:09:17
Speaker
Transition was easy and um it's just the um the eating out thing was a bit of a problem. For you personally, like ah there were people in your life when you decided to go vegan that that have kind of challenged those norms of of how we eat, which you said were helpful. Nonetheless, like were there misgivings or any trepidation or worries that you had sort of at the outset? but No, not really. um Yeah, no, I mean, I think, you know i was absolutely determined to do it. I mean, to be honest, you know, for me, I'm utterly horrified by the meat and dairy, you know, industry, you know, the animal exploitating industry that we have. So it's it's not hard
Work Experience and Commitment
00:10:02
Speaker
for me to do that. You know, it's ah it's an easy sacrifice. You know, I'm passionate about it.
00:10:06
Speaker
um You know, ah um I hate to see violence against people or animals or You know, so it's just not hard to do. And it is quite, um yeah, I would rather be hungry than, know.
00:10:19
Speaker
And a lot of the time, you know, I have been hungry before when there's been nothing else to eat. I just thought, oh, well well, just be hungry, obviously. So, yeah, so it's not been that much of a problem. I mean, I remember, um you know, there were some times...
00:10:32
Speaker
There were some people that um would have cooked vegetarian. they They struggled a bit with veganism, but you know most people were quite sort of accommodating, really. i remember one time we i used to play in a band and we we were touring and were gigging in ah Europe and we were gigging in Germany. And this family that put us they didn't understand vegetarianism at all and just had this sort of massive meat spread and just eating crisps. ah which um you know like that yeah That was quite quite rare, really.
00:11:01
Speaker
Well, that's it, isn't it? Like those people often kind of go to that as a, oh my goodness, but what if this were to happen? But that's not every day, is it? You know, it might be once in a blue moon. your plate alone because It takes a long time to starve to death, I think. You can get some water, you're right.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Practical Transition to Veganism
00:11:22
Speaker
I'm interested. So you're speaking there of a conviction. Could you tell us a bit more about what was fueling that conviction because it's it sounds like it's sort of like animal ethics has been like at the core of things but like was there a specific sort of fact that you learned or or a piece of footage that you saw or something like that or or what was that fuel well um funnily enough so when I was 14 and I was vegetarian and um and I was known for being vegetarian in my school so i it was quite unusual so like um
00:11:54
Speaker
they were like oh this guy's vegetarian what an idiot or whatever and um we had um work experience uh where you get sent i don't know like a shop or whatever to to work and um for some reason some bright spark teacher thought um basically i was crap at maths but they thought i should go to an accounting department And the accounting department was in the local meat products place. So I thought, here's an opportunity to get inside knowledge of ah of a meat factory, you know, because it was um this HMP and Hayville meat products, huge pig processing place. So basically, I went into Abattoir, went to all the meat place and saw it all firsthand. And and that basically, you know, once I've seen all that,
00:12:41
Speaker
That was it, you know, because I've had the inside knowledge, you know, sort seen it with my own eyes. So, yeah. So, I mean, in a way, I could have probably moaned about at the time. I'm not going to meat product. You know, I'm a vegetarian. But I just thought, you know what, this is an opportunity to see what really goes on.
00:12:57
Speaker
And um yeah, so it's quite an eye opener. And was there a difference in terms of what you learnt with regards to like animals being killed for for meat versus, you know, a lot a lot of people when they've not looked into things or been educated, otherwise and they might think that, oh, well, what's wrong with drinking cow's milk or or eggs or things like that? Was there a kind of did did that experience fuel all abstinence from well no because when i was 14 yeah so the next six years i was only vegetarian and i became vegan at 20 and i think you know obviously um i just started to make the connections really i as i say i think the thing is in the sort of so that when i was 14 that was 86 most people were vegetarian really i mean being vegan you didn't really hear of it you know it wasn't really a thing so ah think um i can't you i'm just trying to think when did it
00:13:51
Speaker
come onto to my radar. I mean, when i you know when I went vegan, and my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time, we went vegan. I mean, we were the only vegans we knew. so that was, so it was like, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't a thing. And what's interesting, actually, is because we moved, another thing that happened is we moved to a cottage that was attached to it It was like a farm cottage. And they they used to, oh, what's it when they, oh, they, yeah when they get the, what's the word? When they take, have the cows,
00:14:19
Speaker
and um take the young off them ah wean them weaned you know that's what you know the farms they do they have mothers have the new cows they take the cows away and these cows were like in the shed behind our house and they would be crying for like a week solid all night all day just crying and remember you know we used to have to hear that all the time and it was just like there's your evidence that
Dietary Practices and Philosophies
00:14:44
Speaker
they are not happy animals, you know, it's just the cruelty. Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah. Gosh, gosh. Can we talk like practical details? So like you've, you've said already that what we're like, actually like plant-based food has always been available in, in shops and, and what have you, what,
00:15:01
Speaker
Was it just as as straightforward as kind of deciding, right, okay, we're we're both vegan now, so there are just certain aisles in the shop that we don't go down. Most aisles, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we'll we'll just make do... Or, like was there like, were there recipes you had to learn, or were there kind of...
00:15:20
Speaker
you know I know there are tales of you know at soy milk in tiny little tins in the 1980s that you had to cycle 50 miles to get to get one of. like what How were things practically at the start? I think probably even at that stage, if I was having milk, it was probably just in cereal. I don't really remember having a lot.
00:15:44
Speaker
When I went vegan, there was so it was a couple of years, I'd only just left home at 18. And my diet wasn't particularly varied. As you can imagine, i think I used to like buy like ready-made pizzas, you know like a lot of young people do and stuff. so it was So I was only really eating, I think, cheese and probably a bit of milk with cereal. But I think I was mostly eating toast. that wasn't fine I wasn't even buying milk.
00:16:06
Speaker
So they were the only two things I had to give up. So it wasn't really that, I don't, I mean, eggs, I wasn't eating, I don't think I was eating many eggs. It didn't seem that hard. It's not a big, you know, once you've gone vegetarian, milk, cheese and eggs is isn't much more, is it? I suppose. Yeah.
00:16:21
Speaker
as to mike tim makey There's something about like if you've never lived in a way where you're thinking critically about what you eat, the first time you do that, whether that is becoming vegetarian or vegan, or maybe like your doctor said, you need to exclude gluten or whatever it is, like that's difficult. But I think once you've lived that way for, I don't know, a number of weeks or number of months, Like you're used to just like thinking about what your meals are going to be. And then i ah i mean, you know, I can't understand why I would change to a different diet tomorrow. But if I did, then ah i don't know, like you'd probably adjust to it quite quickly, wouldn't you? Because you're just like, oh, that's OK. I think so. You know, I think, yeah, I mean, um I've always been really, well, particularly in my adult
00:17:12
Speaker
He is, you know, fascinated in healthy eating and just optimum health. So I'm just sort fascinated by um what you can do for your body, really. you know what you can You know, what you eat really makes a massive difference to your well-being, doesn't it? I mean, and if you if you get i mean if anything...
00:17:29
Speaker
Being vegan is quite a small part of how we now sort of um work out our meals because we p apply all
Beyond Diet: Ethical Challenges
00:17:38
Speaker
these other rules. I mean, like, for example, we do the kind of like... um ah can't remember what it's cool but it's a type type of fasting where you, you fill your food into like, you know, is it 10 hours or something? and then you've got, you know, 14 hours of not eating anything. We do that sort of thing. And then there's all the sort of other little supplements that you can get into. And yeah. And in the past, I've tried all sorts of different things. I mean, there's food combining. I do all that. So food combined, food, food for my blood group, which is interesting. So when I've been an A,
00:18:10
Speaker
I should be vegetarian. my you know For Rachel, I have a disadvantage of being an O, and she should be a meat-easer. But you know you find the balance. so but But for me, you know naturally, I should be a vegetarian anyway, so that's quite easy. um But yeah, we take into consideration all these different different things anyway so i mean obviously as a ve vegan you're always checking the ingredients know that's one thing is that you go you go into a supermarket most things you can't eat and if you can eat it your checking the the ingredients but that's it it's changed so much i mean 10 in 10 years but it's all junk food isn't it that's the thing well this the stuff that's that's marketed as being vegan as as you've said like there's there's always been pulses and grains and nuts and seeds and fruits and vegetables like that but they're They're not so sexy to advertise, are they? and Like we've talked a lot about food there almost exclusively, but like in in terms of like clothing and and other other elements of living a vegan lifestyle, what sort of bits of learning did you have to do along the way and and kind of what practicalities were involved there? Well, again, so, I mean, early on, I think, you know, one of the things that switched me on to becoming vegan was the anti-vivisection sort of, you know, like um pressure groups.
00:19:30
Speaker
So straight away, I was trying to avoid or was avoiding, ah you know, like pharmaceuticals or cosmetics. ah I'm not that use many cosmetics, but, you know, just and and luckily, you know, there were companies that were sort of, you anti-animal testing whether they were vegan at the time i see i mean it's just what was available because you know they had you had the body shop and the body shop isn't isn't too bad it got it's got better it got better over the time but then you know you could say that it's actually a lot of chemicals in their stuff so it wasn't very natural as well but you had to take that into consideration but but um so it's anti-vissectionist stuff and then and i think um
00:20:11
Speaker
And then it was like vegetarian shoes in Brighton that started selling. And they were probably one the first, I mean, before that I was, you know, wearing like canvas shoes and stuff, but I mean, I didn't know about the glues. They weren't being marketed as vegan shoes. It's just that you looked at and thought, well, there's no leather there.
00:20:28
Speaker
I'll take a punt with it. And obviously when um vegetarian shoes came along, then suddenly you had, you know, bonafide sort of vegan stuff. So you could go, okay, I'll buy that. And and then of course, since then,
00:20:40
Speaker
loads of other companies doing fabulous stuff. Um, and, uh, same with, um, you know, wool. I mean, it's quite easy, you know, to, to avoid wool because I suppose the, um, the man-made fibers got better, but i mean, I've, I've always had a slight, i mean, I have a battle now with sort of all the oil based clothing I wear, you know, because that's not ideal either. So ah being vegan and with with the environmental impact of it, you know, it's like, um,
00:21:09
Speaker
It's hard
Complexities of Ethical Living
00:21:11
Speaker
balance. In fact, i can't say i have balanced it because I'm always going... It's a bit like having a cat and having to... I mean, we get the most ethical cat food we can buy and um then it you know doesn't work out expensive like a lot of people worry because they literally eat every every bit of it. they day is and um But even then, you know it's not it's not ideal. I can't i can't really...
00:21:34
Speaker
justify it even though you know i don't really need to have a cat but it's nice to have a cat it's not it's not a perfect world so you just have to kind of you know and then of course um the glues in products and all the sort of other stuff that you can't you know if i want to say you know i'm just looking at my hi-fi speakers for example yeah i don't know what's in those you know what kind of glues used and all that sort of thing so And and you don't get a vegan speaker you know or vegan high five. Well, I think there's something quite handy about the fact that like we eat, let's say, for your argument's sake, three times a day like because of laws with regards to allergies and and listing ingredients and things like that.
00:22:13
Speaker
ah think it's relatively speaking quite straightforward to get to the end of a day and be like i am as near as damn it sure i've not consumed any animal products then and and so we can kind of like give ourselves that label of like oh i've you know i've done that whereas like you say every other element of life it's it's quite difficult to do but it's it In a sense, I think that works in veganism's favour because there's a bit of it that you can pretty much nail. Whereas if you think of sort of zero waste living or plastic free living or, you know, being environmental, like it's very difficult to kind of come up with an absolute way of saying like, yes, today I did it. And that's just something you kind of have to make peace with. Yeah. I mean, I do get some people, don't you, I suppose, that have um kind of small holdings and they have their own animals and they're looking after them, but then they, they you know, slaughter them at some point, presumably as humanely as possible, you know, because they, but but that that, I mean, you know, I have a like a friend who's predominantly vegan, but will shoot pheasants, you know, now and then, look good just wild pheasants. and and i And I think, well, that's not, you know, I can't really knock it, you know, I mean, because I'm not necessarily anti-death, I'm anti-suffering.
00:23:26
Speaker
you know what mean? So, ah so, if those animals have been in the wild and and they don't know they're going to die, and they do, you know, in a way I can sort of stomach that a lot better than I, by far, than obviously the,
00:23:41
Speaker
you know factory farming and stuff like that there's definitely a continuum isn't there and i suppose yeah but so like obviously there i think there are some people that are doing zero waste and they're you know and they're kind of um and they have to use some animal products to do that but if they're you know i don't know it's a that balance isn't it at the moment i can't stomach it you know it makes me um i don't if i don't need to ah don't want to hurt animals and and my way of managing it is i don't buy many clothes i make the clothes i've got last years and years i mean i think i've had this top i'm wearing in like probably like 15 years you know still going you know so i just make sure i make everything last as long as possible and if i get things for free as well i'm quite into that whole kind of getting stuff you know if it comes my way for nothing or going through skips they call it skip licking don't know when you go yeah yeah
00:24:36
Speaker
its and stuff and I mean, I've always lived like that. thought try and you know um recycle and reuse and and i make the best of what I've got. yeah when When we were talking about those, um I'll call them grey areas or or areas where you're not necessarily...
00:24:53
Speaker
you're not necessarily able to live 100% vegan or to know that you are. That's the first time in our conversation where you didn't seem like really upbeat and positive. Is that side of things like the hardest bit of being
Personal Activism Choices
00:25:08
Speaker
vegan for you? Or is there another element of things like, i don't know, social occasions or stuff like that that, that kind of is the hardest bit from your point of view? I think, um so, i mean, i do, you know, that kind of, um yeah, trying to, I suppose it's a dichotomy, isn't it, where you're trying to sort of, um that's the right word, isn't it, where you're trying to, you know, you can't really find the the right balance. And I just have to accept that. I mean, life's not perfect. I think the other area I feel is a weakness being vegan is I'm not i'm not a protester. You know I don't go out. I mean, I know some vegans will go out on on the streets and have the placards and stuff. And and I'm not, I don't feel...
00:25:46
Speaker
ah ah worry I worry about confrontation. I don't like confrontation. ah don't And I don't want to get involved in confrontation, really. And I worry that I get really angry people. That's the other thing.
00:25:57
Speaker
Because I am really passionate about it. And if people you know push my buttons, um I don't want to get into that sort of confrontation. So I find that's my... I wish I was more proactive in fighting the vegan cause.
00:26:14
Speaker
That said, I mean, ah ah ah I'm a poet these days and I've been doing gigs and I do throw in poems about being vegan. And um and and I suppose that's doing my some sort of part.
00:26:26
Speaker
But um I don't know about you. Do you do go on the protest and stuff? I mean, I have done. i have done. that it different points, sort of my my activism, if you like, has taken different forms and been a sort of different...
00:26:42
Speaker
proportion of my life, I suppose. So, you know, there was a ah period where, you know, I was running two vegan businesses and so I was living and breathing, you know, that kind of active side of things. Whereas now I would say, aside from just occasional conversations with people like this podcast is quite compartmentalised and that's, that's my activism. But yeah, I've, um, that they can be, they can be hit and miss. Like i really have enjoyed a lot of activism in terms as As in like going out on the street activism in terms of conversations with with people as part of big groups or protests and things like that. But they're very, in my experience anyway, they're very dependent on who's involved with them and kind of how...
00:27:31
Speaker
what the numbers of people and and how kind of much dopamine you get back from them. And ah and obviously like being vegan is in a sense ah a selfless thing, isn't it like You're not doing it for yourself, ah generally speaking.
Health Benefits and Societal Attitudes
00:27:46
Speaker
But like, I'm not a martyr and I don't know many people who are, who could just, you know, go out thanklessly day after day and and kind of not get anything back from it. I feel like you need to feel like you're getting some kind of engagement back or some kind of response or you're winning a campaign. So a a lot of it depends on that, doesn't it? I think, um I mean, one of Rachel's, she's so she um she does a lot of park runs. She's part of the sort of vegan runner.
00:28:12
Speaker
you know, i joined that sort group and they have meetups and she's met a guy who's a doctor who lives nearby and he's, um, he he will go into town with and and have you know like um lots of really horrific pictures, put them put them out. and um he And so she said to him, you know like don't you worry about the kind of, or you know how does it bother you if people are, because a lot of people will you know throw burgers at him and you know give him abuse. And he says, though, but for every like three people that do that, there'll be one person who'll come and I didn't realise this was going on. I'm i'm going vegan or vegetarian or whatever.
00:28:48
Speaker
And so that's why he does it. And he and he also said that um because he's a doctor, he just comes up against a lot of, you know, unhappy patients anyway, he deals with a lot of stressful stuff and just finds it like it doesn't bother him.
00:29:02
Speaker
Which I think, you know, it' I mean, it's it's very inspiring, you know, and I think, People that do that, I think it's an amazing thing. i mean, i have I sort of feel, in a way, i'd i'd i mean, I'd love to see a day when people weren't eating animals, but I i don't think it's going to happen, which is sort of sad. if i If I was going to have ah my horrible side takes some delight in the fact of the, ah as the knowledge comes out, the like processed meats cause disease and all this sort of thing.
00:29:31
Speaker
A kind of part of me thinks, well, there you go, you know, you're getting more, The animals are getting their revenge, aren't they? You know, I know it's not a very pleasant way to think, but, um you know, it's, it's not good for
Advice for New Vegans
00:29:42
Speaker
you. I mean, it's becoming quite apparent that it's not, you know, it's not good for you. Maybe, maybe in small amounts, it's all okay. certainly dairy seems to be like 100% totally bad for you and anyone that says otherwise obviously isn't paying attention to research, you know, but. So i'm I'm going to make some assumptions here that if you've been vegan since like the early 90s, you've seen a lot of people kind of come through the come through the vegan system, if you like, and and and tried it and maybe some have not stuck with it and and others have. for For those who are listening who are
00:30:18
Speaker
early on in their journey or thinking about starting it, what sort of tips would you give in terms of do's but also don'ts? Because you can learn a lot from seeing people go about things the wrong way um and know to avoid that, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think... um What tends to happen with people that have... So most people I knew, haven't known loads of vegan... Most vegans, I think, stay vegan because they're a bit more hardcore, I think. But it's the vegetarians that seem to slip back. And i think what seems to happen with them that they suddenly get a bit ill, maybe, or or they get really into fitness and they think, I need meat for protein.
00:30:59
Speaker
Or I'm ill. My doctor said, oh, you should be eating meat. You're not getting... And they and i just think that's the that's the um the only way to go ah to sort themselves out. And and um and without, you know, if with a little bit of research, you find out that if you want protein, hemp is the best form of protein there is.
00:31:20
Speaker
um You know, it has all the amino acids, no other food does. and um And there's loads of, you know, really successful athletes and bodybuilders that are just yeah vegan. um and And of course, um if you're ill, there's I mean, there's ah loads of other ways to get your vitamins and other things, you know, that you might be lacking if you're unwell you know so so i think that's when most people have gone back for i've observed you know it's like they've been told they're feeling a bit run down or whatever they think oh i just need some meat and that'll sort me out and i think actually sometimes it has helped them you know because they do feel better but personally i just think there's probably another way you could have got the like the eye and the deficient you know you were missing or
00:32:04
Speaker
whatever. You don't have to go down the back to eating meat. and And I think as well is that for me, you know, if you're, if you're really serious about it, it's a sacrifice. So, you know, you're sacrificing, know,
00:32:16
Speaker
if you, if there is the argument that, um, you know, meat is good for you and it's, it's better for your health. Well, I'm sacrificing all that because I'm not going to kill animals for myself being self, not going be a selfish asshole, basically. Yeah. I mean, so, so you've got to, if you've got that conviction, you'll just, you'll just put up with if, you know, if that is the case, I don't, I mean, I feel amazing. I'm 52. I feel bloody amazing. um And um certainly, you know, like I gave up drinking two and a half years ago, and that's when I started to really feel amazing. So maybe look at other areas of your lifestyle. You know, if you're you're drinking, even if you're drinking tiny amounts, it's going to really affect your health.
00:32:56
Speaker
So look at those sort of areas instead of thinking, oh, i just need to become a carnivore again.
Reflections on the Vegan Journey
00:33:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. is there Out of interest, Sam, is there anything like if you could turn back the clock that you would go about differently with regards to your own vegan journey?
00:33:11
Speaker
I don't think so. i mean, i think i think it's all gone pretty well. we I didn't have any, you know, and my conviction never left me. So i didn't have any wobbles. Certainly didn't have any and wobbles. I mean, sometimes, you know, I've accidentally eaten.
00:33:29
Speaker
I mean, it wasn't even that long ago I accidentally ate some chicken. i mean, that's mad, isn't it? I had some friends who were vegetarian who bought these sort of Indian nibbles, you know, and I just assumed they'd checked them out. And I was eating this thing and I was actually thinking, oh, this is nice. And then. i was like, hang on a minute, that tastes like really meat, it and it actually was, you know. But, you know, I didn't give because I didn't like it. I think some people, like my wife, she she hates the taste of fish and meat. and she she it was it I mean, I didn't give it up because I didn't like it. I did like it, you know. but
00:34:00
Speaker
And, I mean, and there's been times even now when, you know, if we give cat some fish or something, a tin of fish, I actually think, oh, do you know what, I could eat that. But it's like, I mean, obviously I'm not going to eat.
00:34:12
Speaker
so um So, yeah. So I don't think there has been any problems, really. I think it's it's always been all right. And um and and you just um find a way, especially abroad, you just find a way of, you know, sort of um of ah circumnavigating the problem. We basically just don't eat out in restaurants. I mean, that certainly used to be impossible to do.
00:34:33
Speaker
And um nowadays, I think it's a lot lot easier, isn't it? I mean, everyone... pretty much knows what vegan is. Even like you say, the greatest thing of all is the allergy to dairy products. You know, that basically, you can just, i mean, even sometimes we've said,
00:34:49
Speaker
we we're allergic to dairy products and they're like, hey, take it bloody seriously then. yeah Do you know what I You get your own frying pan that way, don't you? Yeah, exactly, exactly. So so um I think, you know, in a way, just cheat and just say stuff like that if you want to make sure you're going to be treated with respect, you know.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I'm i'm interested, like, it's obviously a hypothetical, but, like, if you – if you had the sort of mental realizations that you did when you were were younger, if let's say you had been born 30 years later and that was happening now, like the the context of 2025, you think your journey would have...
Veganism in the Modern Context
00:35:26
Speaker
like the do you think your journey would have look different. I'm just thinking like when you mentioned like vegetarian shoes, so I was kind of remembering like, yeah, those like niche shops that you'd have to travel miles to get to. And like, in a sense, that was impractical. Like in a sense, I wonder whether it kind of,
00:35:44
Speaker
deepened our conviction that we had to like go out of our way whereas you know if now it's just one click and you get it delivered to your door um it's it's great in one regard and then maybe there is downsides too i ah i wonder what your journey would have looked like if it started in 2025 well i mean i think you know there is definitely um more of a support network isn't there there's more i mean you know if you want um if you want to find out information about but animal products and health and stuff, it's there, you know, you can find it, can't you? And I think, yeah, years ago, you know, that that has been the key thing. I think, you know, from my whole, you know, how health advice in general has changed in in my adult life, just and learning new things all the time. um And it would be bit by bit, but you're drifting, you know, you'd hear about a book,
00:36:34
Speaker
you'd go and buy that, but you weren't going to find it online. You'd you know you'd find, you'd hear this book, oh, that looks interesting. And then you read it and you'd be, you know, suddenly you've got to incorporate a load of new things into your diet. And um and I think actually you can't probably do it all at once anyway. It'd be too too much, you know, but I mean, and I'm still fine-tuning even now, you know, like you find out,
00:36:57
Speaker
You know, you just find out things. I mean, catplla for example, calcium is really bad for you, isn't it? I mean, did you know that? No, go on. Well, so, so um I mean, the latest research is suggesting that calcium supplements cause heart attack. Right. Gosh. know So that's a new thing. So, I mean, i you know, I hadn't taken loads of calcium, but I had been taken a bit.
00:37:15
Speaker
here and there and then suddenly it's like really not advised at all so yeah because of the new research is that in its supplement form as opposed to like in being in leafy greens oh yeah and that's all right yeah yeah in supplement form yeah of course so um yes that sort of thing it's always changing isn't it evolving and you know and i'm sure it will continue to evolve but it there definitely seems uh within the sort of health industry the really kind of hardcore health industry they are so anti-dairy products i mean for you know
00:37:45
Speaker
and um not so much meat and fish, but definitely dairy. So that's ah you know, even if you've got no ethical reason to give it up, and you you know, they think it's um it seems to be really bad for you. So yeah, I just think that would be the difference, isn't it? It's just information, access to
Cultural and Philosophical Reflections
00:38:02
Speaker
information. And um and I think, you know, even things like the the vegan runners at parkruns, you know, they they have these kind of meetups and they get together and, you know, we went out on a Christmas dinner recently which is, you know, amazing to go to a vegan pub with like, you know, 30 other vegans and have a completely vegan meal, you know. So I mean, that, you know, would have been unheard of. But um yeah, so in that way, you can get that support, I think. Yeah. What a time to be alive, eh?
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's not too bad. I mean, yeah. Do you think veganism is declining a bit? I don't know. yeah Because I think it had a bit of a peak, didn't it? and And lot people were trying it and was in the media and, you know, everyone seemed to love it. It was like, obviously, a bit of a fad and,
00:38:42
Speaker
And um hopefully some people will start with it. i think I think there's so many different things going on. It's difficult to say. So like if you measure it in a kind of like consumerist capitalist way, there are naturally going to be people who see that there's a buck to be made. They'll launch a substandard product. It doesn't go very well.
00:39:01
Speaker
um And then they recall it. And so, you know, we've seen a lot of stuff in the new news in the last 12 months. I'm saying, oh, look at all these companies that have recalled vegan products. It's like, look, all the companies that have recalled non-vegan products. Like, but like anyway, so there's that side of it.
00:39:16
Speaker
I think there might be something in terms of like, part me wonders whether with the information age, is there, was there a group of people that, who all it took was to learn a few bits of information about animal ethics, and then they went vegan.
00:39:30
Speaker
But like that group of people have now gone vegan. So now we're getting the wave of people who... actually the thing that's turning them vegan is maybe their health or their concern about the environment or weather. But maybe that's a bit, it's not like it's a lesser reason, but maybe it's less compelling for you to stick with it.
00:39:51
Speaker
Whereas perhaps like, you know, 20 years ago, if you wanted to be vegan, you had to bloody really want to be vegan. Whereas I i don't want to I don't want to say that people are flaky now or anything like that.
00:40:03
Speaker
It's just the kind of what has drawn people towards it. If it wasn't as compelling in the first place, then it's your your your journey is maybe going to be a bit more of a back and forth one rather than an absolute, no, from this day forth, I will never consume that again. So I think there might be a bit of that going on, but it's hard to tell. We need a census, don't we, every year? Yeah. No, I mean, I think you're right. I think, you know, some people, you know, I've just...
00:40:29
Speaker
I've always been very emotionally sensitive, you know, and, um and I feel things in a very deep way. So, you know, to see animals suffering really pisses me off. You know, I don't like it at It makes me really angry. There's no two ways about it.
00:40:44
Speaker
And, and I, and I think some people just don't think, feel things, I mean, you know, on that deeper level. And I don't think, you know, it's necessarily always helpful to feel things on that deeper level because, you know, I, I find the, the,
00:40:58
Speaker
uh what goes on in the world quite torturous you know so i'm always sort of in a semi sort of tortured state you know like um i've never feel 100 happy you know i mean i am you know happy but i do so you know the suffering that goes on the world people and animals and everything destruction and environment you know the whole lot is just making me go ah yeah but i think like lot people at the same time I'm into Buddhism as well. So I find that but the philosophy of Buddhism is very helpful because it's just this whole kind of idea that there's loads of things that are out of your control. you know And I think when you really understand that, you can kind of start to, I don't know, just have to, in a way, as an acceptance of the way humanity is. you know Humanity is a broad church. And, um you know, one end you've got psychopaths and at the other end you've got like very sensitive people and then this mishmash in between. And I think a lot of people probably have more psychopath in than they realise, you know. And um unfortunately, there's nothing, you know, if you're a psychopath, you're born that way. You know there's nothing you can really do about it.
Growth and Activism through Poetry
00:42:01
Speaker
So, so you know, I think um probably...
00:42:06
Speaker
in a survival sort of way, it's not that helpful to be really sensitive, you know, like they but bit a bit the harder you are, the more maybe successful you are and as a species, you know, there's all these things you have to consider. doesn't, Yeah, I can't, you know, so great it's all grey areas, I think. That's what I've learned and you know from Buddhism and as I've grown older, that is there's no answers. You know, i used to be very idealistic when was younger and I'm very realistic now. and and And unfortunately, realism comes with a bit of pain, I think, you know.
00:42:37
Speaker
it's not that pretty sometimes but yeah absolutely sam it's been really really lovely hearing you speak and and and getting to know you a bit more particularly with regards to your vegan journey did you want to finish by speaking a poem i could say the poem yeah so i'll read it it's um so basically it's poem ah so this is about a um a friend of mine who um who was vegetarian and then and then he he got into um into ah bike racing like a mountain bike racing and decided he needed to meet me again to be be better and um and he was also the singer in um in uh the band i played in so i was playing a hardcore punk band he was the singer and um and he was always sort of like um oh yeah you know i'd give him a hard time about it because he was one of those sort of people i really some people that went
00:43:33
Speaker
back to eating meat from vegetarianism, I could sort of understand they weren't that committed. He always seemed to be very committed. So was very upset at the fact that he he had changed. I couldn't understand it. So I'd give him a hard time and he and he would kind of welcome it. and um And one day I thought the ultimate ah the ultimate sort of um getting back at him, the ultimate revenge would be to write to write a song about him, what an arsehole is, and get him to sing it.
00:43:58
Speaker
so So this is a poem about that. ah show it It's called Ode to Jay. um So Jay the vegetarian suddenly announced that he had been eating meat again because he needed more protein. I wanted to convey my vegan feelings of dismay. So I wrote a s Saki song and I called it Ode to Jay.
00:44:17
Speaker
So here I present to you the very lyrics that I wrote. They are brutal in their revenge and they grab Jay by the throat. But the party don't end here and I'll tell you the best bit. He was the vocalist in the band so he'd have to fucking sing it.
00:44:32
Speaker
Here's the lyrics. I went back to eating flesh. I gave up on the animal rights. I put it to the back of my mind and now i'm eating flesh all the time. Meat is good for the environment. The chemicals in meat are good for you. The animals don't suffer much. It makes some people very rich.
00:44:49
Speaker
Sam gives me a hard time. Always talks his vegan shit. I used to agree with what he said, but now it just makes me laugh. Eating meat is just so easy. Everywhere I go, it's there.
00:45:02
Speaker
The industry once made me angry, but now I'm too selfish to fucking care. So fair play to Jay. He took it on the chin, but he's still not a vegetarian. But by writing this poem, the vegan revenge is ongoing. There you go. Amazing.
00:45:18
Speaker
i love it. I love it. He did used to sing it. He used to sing it in the band and um it was great. Every time we did it, I i thought it was very funny. That's amazing. Sam, thank you again so much for your time. It's been absolutely brilliant. get to it getting Thank you. Nice to meet you.
00:45:38
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
Conclusion and Promotion
00:45:49
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:45:53
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:46:19
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:46:40
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:46:55
Speaker
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