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240- Peaceful protest = jail time?
112 Plays13 days ago
A blow to the right to peaceful protest on behalf of animals this week, as the UK Parliament voted in favour of making any kind of protest at an animal testing site illegal. Whilst this is still to be confirmed as law, there is much to conisder on how this could affect some of the existing regular protests that take place on behalf of animals. As well as this story, Shane, Make, Kate & Ant dissect nine other bits of news from the last 7 days in the vegan & animal rights space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://protectthewild.substack.com/p/mps-approve-expansion-of-anti-protest
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/whole-milk-for-healthy-kids-act-trump-bill-non-dairy-school-meals/
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/the-body-shop-backtracks-on-its-vegan-promise/
https://sustainabilitymag.com/news/how-is-smurfit-westrocks-packaging-vegan-cruelty-free
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/474554/food-pyramid-dietary-guidelines-maha-protein?view_token=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpZCI6IkNKV2FuaWdweWkiLCJwIjoiL2Z1dHVyZS1wZXJmZWN0LzQ3NDU1NC9mb29kLXB5cmFtaWQtZGlldGFyeS1ndWlkZWxpbmVzLW1haGEtcHJvdGVpbiIsImV4cCI6MTc2OTM3NDMzNSwiaWF0IjoxNzY4MTY0NzM1fQ.mhnq6GeSaGseEjE1EeEpEiy89Tph1sBuCq-4LNRRUuM&utm_medium=gift-link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2026/01/14/marriott-protests-cage-free-eggs/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzY4MzY2ODAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzY5NzQ5MTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3NjgzNjY4MDAsImp0aSI6Ijg3NDg2ODdiLWNlOTQtNGZhMy04ODkyLTZiNjM2YmM5OWEwNiIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS90cmF2ZWwvMjAyNi8wMS8xNC9tYXJyaW90dC1wcm90ZXN0cy1jYWdlLWZyZWUtZWdncy8ifQ.LULSQLLOXk8mKYMV2JopHf3fZWizi45jLVmNJq4Id9Q&itid=gfta
https://www.facebook.com/AnimalRising/photos/%EF%B8%8F-not-guilty-%EF%B8%8Fjury-says-rescuing-beagles-is-not-a-crimefour-animal-rising-defend/1230746902494029/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8j3020kl04o
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/three-horses-killed-one-race-33208070
https://forgetfarmkind.com/
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Shane, Make, Kate & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts' Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, if you're looking for vegan and animal rights news, you are in the right place. This is enough of the falafel and we are the bringers of vegan and animal rights news and have been for the last three years or so. Hooray!
00:00:12
Speaker
Who are we? Well, I'm Anthony and joining me for this episode are Kate, Shane and Mark. But that's enough of the falafel because it's time for Vegan Week. So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble.
00:00:26
Speaker
That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Roaty. Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry.
00:00:37
Speaker
True education. younger generation are getting to know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with things. What is this?
00:00:48
Speaker
What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold. Any form of social
00:00:56
Speaker
As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
Vegan Perceptions and UK Protest Laws
00:01:05
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello there, lovely listeners. It's Kate with you here. I'm really delighted to be here with you and Thank you everyone for listening to the show. Hey everyone, this is Shane. If you're new to the podcast, this is our new show, Vegan Week, and this is where we look through last week's vegan and animal rights news. And hi everyone, this is Mark here from New Zealand, but that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on in the news this week.
00:01:39
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:53
Speaker
Okay, let's kick things off then. We are looking at Protect the Wilds sub-stack this week, and I'm afraid we're feeling sad when we're doing so because they have reported a news story that's been covered in lots of places. It's from the UK, specifically the UK Parliament, where members of Parliament have approved an expansion of anti-protest powers covering animal testing sites. If memory serves, we gave a bit of a teaser about of this a few weeks ago. It was mooted. We didn't know how the vote was going to go. And goodness me, 301 MPs voted for it, 110 voted against. So it reclassifies, quote, life sciences infrastructure. The sort of thing we're thinking of here is maybe like MBR beagles, anywhere that's kind of testing on animals or doing something where they're saying, look, this is providing essential medicine or something like that. It's all in the wording, all in the justification of it.
00:02:52
Speaker
If they can justify that that is what they are doing, the House of Commons has now voted to say, well, actually, they're part of key national infrastructure like roads, train stations, things like that, which basically means that your right to protest is nil basically whereas you can protest peacefully in the middle of a street that's not part of national infrastructure but it's saying doing so in near how near will people get away with i guess we'll find out but um it's coming with um jail sentences um fines and things like that it's kate it's it's i don't think it's possible to see this as anything other than a blow hopefully one that doesn't stop people
00:03:38
Speaker
speaking up for those poor animals in these facilities? Yeah, it's, yeah, unbelievable, really. i don't know. i think, unfortunately, it might act as a deterrent for some people, you know, not many people actually want to get arrested. So I can see it kind of Giving people pause for thought. Yeah, it's just so strange because you could even be on public land. The demonstration can be peaceful, but you might still get arrested.
00:04:09
Speaker
So, yeah and apparently the wording's very vague and very broad. And so it leaves it to interpretation by the state, by the police that are there as to whether they want to do something about it. So Protect the Wild have um put out a ah thing about it and explained about it. it's it's You can actually look up and see if your MP has voted for it or perhaps abstained, but it's actually got to go through the Lords first.
Critique on Animal Testing
00:04:41
Speaker
And so Protect the World and I think Animal Rising, there that they' they've linked to an email to the Lord so that you can send your own email ah asking them to refuse it.
00:04:55
Speaker
Because they do have a history, apparently, of rejecting laws that ah might erode civil liberties. So there's a template and you can do with that what you will send it as is, add your own little bits, change it all together, whatever you want to do.
00:05:12
Speaker
um it just makes no sense. And it's going against what the government have said they're going to do which is like, you know, start thinking about reducing and phasing out animal testing, which To be honest, is the, which makes so much sense because, you know, animal testing, it really, it doesn't work in so many cases, so many animals are so expensive as well compared to the other forms of testing, you know. It doesn't make any sense. you know And thought, who is it? ah The Alternatives to Lab Animals Journal, they analysed a whole load of loads and loads of drugs and animal testing had an extremely poor predictive value for human toxicity and um was comparable to what could be achieved by chance.
00:06:02
Speaker
which is rubbish, is useless. So, and they point out, as I think it was Animal Rising, they pointed out that um drugs that have passed toxicity testing on animals and been improved for human use,
00:06:18
Speaker
have had sometimes fatal consequences, one of which is very poignant to me, because it's one called Vioxx. And I was actually put on that drug when I first became really ill. It's an anti-inflammatory drug. And it gave me heart palpitations. And I just stopped it immediately.
00:06:36
Speaker
But unfortunately, it was associated in the States with 88,000 Sorry, heart attacks and 38,000 deaths, you know, and that was passed. And also things, common things like aspirin, paracetamol, they would not pass toxicity tests with animals because, you know, they're toxic to a lot of dog creatures, including dogs. Whereas they've become like totally vital to us now. So anyway, it's the load of nonsense. Yes. That's my opinion. Yeah. And thank you for for sharing that that sign of of hope in in that folk can contact the, it's the House of Lords, just in case any international listeners were thinking that... that actual Lords were being consulted. I mean, I suppose there are actual Lords in the House of Lords, um but yeah, there is something you can do. And I've followed the link now. And all I will say, international listeners, is if you went on Google maps and found UK postcode and address, and use that to submit an email yourself objecting, then there wouldn't be anything stopping you emailing the House of Lords. And it would look like you lived in the UK. I'm of course not advocating that. That would be hugely morally wrong. But it does seem you would be able to do that. And obviously, UK listeners, you could just put in your actual
Vegan Week: News and Controversies
00:07:58
Speaker
email. email address. So let's let's hope Sense is seen. And even if that does pass, I'm wondering whether if if there's a way of protesting without interfering in the day-to-day running of a facility, might that be seen as acceptable? We'll see. You will hear it first on Vegan Talk. Let's move on. I'm afraid it's another not so positive story. I so i saw a news article this week, which led me to this version of it from Vegan Food and Living. I can't remember where the original one was, but it said something like, this is the worst veganuary ever. And it was about the fact that the body shop are dropping their 100% vegan status just two years after they certified themselves as being vegan. In fact, I remember reporting it on the show. they They were less than open about which products have had animal products added to them, or rather which animal product containing products they've added to their line.
00:08:56
Speaker
The Vegan Society have done some digging and have have shared, it's either one or or two items, but another email has suggested that later on in the year, there might be several more than that.
00:09:10
Speaker
Mark, it's an interesting one, this, in that it's obviously not positive to see. Pragmatically, the vast majority of their products are still vegan, and we have to be careful measuring the progress of a social justice movement in capitalist terms.
00:09:27
Speaker
All of those things said, we'd rather the body shop be 100% vegan, wouldn't we? Oh, indeed. And for anyone anyone concerned out there as to who wants to know the exact products that are no longer vegan that the body shop are supplying, it's the Spa of the World Cuckoo Body Cream. I imagine you know that big because it's a personal favorite of yours, Mark. I used to use it all the time, no more.
00:09:49
Speaker
um And the hemp hand protector cream, and both of them contain either honey or some sort of milk, I think. So of all the products in the stores that they're that they're currently selling, those two are vegetarian but no longer vegan And I know this has really annoyed some people. I did see a blog from Dr. Corey Lee Ren, a well-known vegan and feminist activist in in in the UK, who is scathing about their capitulation to the bottom line. Personally, I don't use these things. but i I do get the disappointment. It is, I suppose, only two out of their entire range. As far as i understand, everything else is vegan.
00:10:35
Speaker
It is disappointing. But when you analyze capitalism and what drives capitalism, it's it's not surprising, I suppose. The original founder of the body shop, I think it's Anita Roddick is her name, sold the company many years ago and it's passed through a succession of different multinationals. I think it's now owned by L'Oreal, who are a barefaced capitalist company with as far as you know no real staunch vegan
00:11:06
Speaker
ah principles um their bottom line is making money bear in mind the bottom line is the top line and also the middle line there's only really one line when it comes to this if it's making money it's in if it's not out when you're when you when you're dealing with shit your hands get dirty i suppose is my sort of saying around all this uh they are capitalists they're out to make money it does seem odd that they're they're willing to sacrifice the the brand of being one hundred percent vegan for a mere two products that I'm sure they they could source elsewhere that would be vegan and wouldn't contain the honey or milk. So it does seem a little bit like to shoot themselves in the foot, but it's it it is disappointing. It doesn't mean it's the worst veganuary ever. I can think of other reasons, of ah more shocking ah and outrageous things being being done. it It is a shame, but and again, you're you're dealing with capitalists and and and this is how they act. and
00:11:57
Speaker
and So it it it isn't a big it isn't a big surprise to me. It is slightly disappointing though. Yeah, absolutely. I was working at Lush when the body shop was sold to L'Oreal in 2006. And I remember everyone at Lush being like, oh, well, this means we're much better now. um I'm on the article now and it does does say actually in 2017, L'Oreal sold the body shop to another company and now they've passed on to the latest private equity group. Doesn't that sound ethical? But it's, you know, it's like you say, Mark, it's about what the products are, isn't it? And what what a silly way to sell out. Yeah. I would say that that Lush are the only company that spring to mind that are really staunch vegans and was started by and it' still owned and controlled by two ex-Hunt Saboteurs. Mm-hmm.
00:12:46
Speaker
Not completely vegan, though. Not completely vegan. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yes. But ok but they yes, they do shout loudly about lots of things. And this that there does seem to be a difference there just in terms of who's owning the company and and some of the things it stands for. indeed.
00:13:04
Speaker
But yeah, they could do with being 100% vegan for sure. Right. Thank you for that one, Mark. that is That is super. And appreciate you reading a story about something that's not particularly close to home. Something that is close to home for Shane is our next story. So we've asked her to have a look at It comes from Vox.com. And the headline is, The New Food Pyramid is Lying to You. It's also a contradictory mess.
00:13:29
Speaker
Interesting headline, not a vegan source when you read the story. In fact, maybe many listeners will know this news already. I think I came across it in the last few days from ah a non-vegan source too. It's the fact that the US s health secretary and the in the In fact, the the federal dietary guidelines as a whole have been released in the last few days.
00:13:51
Speaker
They're released every five years. So this is it's interesting that that doesn't quite line up with presidential terms and things like that. It could it it could miss a term, but it's,
US Dietary Guidelines and Vegan Perspectives
00:14:02
Speaker
regrettably, it's not missed the ah make America great term. and Indeed, the make America healthy term, make America healthy again, sorry, Maha.
00:14:12
Speaker
is the latest acronym for this one. um I've had a look at it, Shane. There's an awful lot of ah animal products in that top left-hand corner, not exclusively, that they're not advocating a ah completely carnist diet, I suppose, or carnivore diet. But I think the main main headlines are that whole milk is is back in and a few other things. What's what's your take on this and particularly this article's slant on it, I suppose? So I will say that Vox is just, it's not a vegan news source, but they do have a lot of really good vegan coverage. Just taking a look at this food pyramid, it's jumbled. It's very hard to like look at it and understand what you're supposed to take away from it.
00:14:55
Speaker
But you're right. that protein foods and animal protein in particular really seem prominent. In the article, it says that there are plant-based options like beans, lentils, and nuts. And when I looked at it closely, I was like...
00:15:12
Speaker
enlarging the picture. think I saw some nuts. I think I saw like a can of green beans, but I don't know about any other. kind i I didn't see lentils, but I don't know. So um they really, the plant-based proteins they are very subservient to the animal proteins which is strange because the scientific panel that advises the dietary guidelines recommends that Americans eat more plant-based protein. So this is actually going against that. And I don't, this wasn't in the article, but I also think that this was not the time when this had to be released. I think that RFK Jr., who's a health secretary of health and human services, released this just because he wanted to. i don't think it was actually scheduled to be released. So as far as veganism, the guidelines do talk about veganism and they were pretty hostile toward it.
00:16:06
Speaker
um They went on and on about nutrient shortfalls that a vegan diet and a vegetarian diet would contain. And um really they didn't have any support for that. So my general takeaway is that this is kind of all vibes and very little science. There's contradictory advice given,
00:16:24
Speaker
like They will say you should limit saturated fat, but then it says, well, eat more red meat, full fat dairy, and cook with butter and beef tallow, and all of those are high in saturated fat.
00:16:36
Speaker
And also, it's it's just, it's not so much as policy as like a culture war document because it says, quote, we will end the war on protein. This is in the the guidelines. And it also says we will end the war on saturated fats.
00:16:54
Speaker
So apparently there are some wars over the dietary guidelines. I don't know how this is possibly a policy. Yeah. And ah it's very tempting. I think a lot of people have said, oh, but nobody pays attention to these guidelines anyway. And I mean, that's true to some extent.
00:17:12
Speaker
But the food that served at public schools and what children are taught in younger, the lower grades is going to be based on this because I know my own child came home, you know, whenever it was a different policy, but she had to learn about it.
00:17:27
Speaker
The military, their food is is based on this. And then also like public hospitals, what they are served and and they're what the people in their cafeterias, the meal planning is based on this. So this it's not nothing, even though we kind of look at it and think this is just ridiculous. How can they take this seriously? But people will have to take it seriously.
00:17:48
Speaker
Yeah. I love the description of it being on vibes. I think the whole administration is based on vibes, isn't it? It's really interesting. The administration, the courts, it's all vibes, no law. Yeah, yeah. I think i think it's really funny the way they ad to have an an inverted pyramid to symbolize all this.
00:18:06
Speaker
If you've ever tried building a pyramid, building them upside down, the causes collapse. Yeah, I would have thought that's that's the whole point of it of a pyramid is like it's, you know, it's got structure, you've got your basic things on the bottom and what have you. Yeah, you look at that and you just like, what am I meant to do with that? Especially if I'm reducing saturated fat and whilst cooking with beef tallow. um I just want to say something very, very quickly.
00:18:31
Speaker
The protein thing is interesting and this is not a vegan or animal rights point per se, although people's obsession with protein If we can counter that with some facts and some science, I think that does do animals some good in the long run. I was astounded to see the recommendations. It was almost double what you need. So my understanding of what you need...
00:18:54
Speaker
is three quarters of a gram of protein for every kilogram of your body mass. yeah So if I weigh 100 kilograms, then i would need 75 grams of protein a day. They're suggesting something like 1.25 grams to 1.5 grams per kilogram of body mass. So it's like it's nearly, well, it is double if you take the upper range of that And I don't know whether that's just to support US producers who are producing meat and and therefore that's where people are getting their protein from or or whatever. But like, unless the science has changed in the last few years, since I saw those figures, that's that's wildly dangerous, really. Like too much protein. and Unless everyone is becoming like an Olympic weightlifter, like that's dangerous to have that much protein. The science hasn't changed, but the science wasn't uppermost in the drafting of this document. You don't say.
00:19:57
Speaker
i just want to compliment them on their their signage, really. It's just, you know, ah i don't know. What is it? i I find it hilarious when they're holding up a board like that with the... It's just so old school. and Yeah, it is. It's got real like 1960s vibes, hasn't
Non-Dairy Milk in Schools Bill
00:20:15
Speaker
it?
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. It's so weird. Maybe that's when America... That's probably not by accident because, you know, we're making America healthy again. Like apparently the sixty s was when it was healthy. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe someone can email in and tell us. There's good news from this bill, though, in that, and we put a link in this separate story that we've asked Kate to look at separately, from greenqueen.com. I'd recommend their site. We get a lot of good stuff from there. The headline, new Trump bill expands access to non-dairy milk in US school meals. So not quite the the food pyramid story, but definitely in the same ballpark. Definitely the same part of the world. So although they've put whole milk back at the center of this US food policy and and everything like that, and despite the fact that that is a U-turn in schools in that in the Obama era, full fat and 2% milk was prohibited um as part of the school lunch program.
00:21:14
Speaker
There is a new bit to to a bill basically saying that schools shall offer students a variety of fluid milk. That's always been the case, but this includes non-dairy beverages that are nutritionally equivalent to fluid milk and meet the nutritional standards established by the secretary. I mean, that's going to be all plant-based milk. So I've never seen a carton of plant-based milk that doesn't top everything up so that it's nutritionally equivalent for all the good bits of dairy milk. However, It's also saying that you don't need to have a doctor's note to get this. So previously, my understanding, and Shane, you could correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you'd need a doctor's note saying my child's at this child is lactose intolerant. So they need this. Right, that's correct. Yeah. Whereas now your parent can just say...
00:22:07
Speaker
their lactose intolerant, they need a different thing. I don't know if you can say they're vegan, so give them some soy milk, but actually it's saying it requires them to serve these alternatives to students with disabilities based on a note from their parents. So I don't know whether they're ethical considerations are there, but either way, like at least vegan families or plant-based families can say, oh, he's allergic to it. So you need to give him oat milk or soy milk or what have you.
00:22:34
Speaker
Either way, that's really good news, Kate, I reckon. Yeah, it sounds amazing because, um i mean, again, Shane will be able to to elucidate how this bumps up against the the what we've just been talking about, the DATI guidelines, because this is a separate framework.
00:22:51
Speaker
thing It's a bill that has been passed through both the House and now the Senate due to tireless campaigning from several hardworking organisations, including Switch for Good, Animal Wellness Action and centre for a humane economy. And they've been working very closely with um inside politicians and hurrah hurrah for success. We hope so. I don't know, you know, like I say, whether the Darche guidelines will have some influence on it at all. I don't know. i think for vegan children, from what I can tell, it is going to make it much easier for them to access non-dairy milk as well, because, you know, I think it's moving all those bureaucratic sort hurdles from them as well.
00:23:47
Speaker
Although it may take a while to roll out because i not and you know some school districts, I'm not what you call them, may take a while to kind of roll them out. So hope there aren't any you know proper slow coaches there that don't want to do it because they're a really heavy dairy area or something. I don't know. whether that will happen. But, and yeah, so unfortunately also children are going to be offered the full fat milk variety as well as the 2% calf's milk variety. And apparently students must be offered milk as one of their components of a school meal, reimbursable school meal, but they're not required to take it. Shane, is that right? so
00:24:38
Speaker
If they get the school lunch that is offered, now you do not have to get your lunch at school, okay? But it's it's a reduced price. And then if there is a low income student, then that's like their free lunch. And yes, if they go through that line, they are required to take a milk. They don't have to drink the milk.
00:24:58
Speaker
So like my daughter, i she's never gotten this school lunch. i mean I mean, maybe if she wanted to, she did, but don't know. She didn't drink the milk. She doesn't like milk. And then I often work at like my, she's in high school now and I often work, we have like a little school store at the high school that raises money and the kids come during lunch and can buy like crackers or, you know, fruit or whatever. And- we don't eat we We don't sell milk. you know They all want like coffee or Gatorade or whatever. So yeah, it's going to be for kids who have to get the school lunch or want to get it because their parents didn't pack them a lunch, but they don't have to drink the milk.
00:25:34
Speaker
Thank you for that. But about half the kids, 30 million school kids, and about half of them have a lactose intolerance because especially kids of colour, highest in the Asian community, 90% of kids who are of Asian origin, you know, they they have a lactose intolerance. And so they can't have it. That's a real social injustice, isn't it? And anyway, who should be drinking it anyhow, beyond the age of five, you know, milk, full stop. So 30% is thrown unopened into the bin. There's like millions and millions of gallons, which is just poured, you know, it's been opened and not drank, poured
Vegan Packaging Innovations
00:26:16
Speaker
down the drains. Just think of the number of cows lives that is each year just just being exploited, living lives of misery for drink for milk that is never even consumed, for goodness sake. And do the dairy industry care?
00:26:31
Speaker
No, because so long as they get to sell their product, they don't care whether it it's drunk or not. at All they're interested is in the bottom line, isn't it? So let's face it. so um I do wonder, will this have an effect on the dairy industry? Because, you know, i guess they're still going to be subsidized. is it Is it like a little bit of a slippery slope now for them? This is something that is, you know, don't know. don't know. don't think it will change anything for them because they're already... providing the milk for the school lunches. I mean, the the government is subsidizing them the meat in the dairy industry so much, just through even just through school lunches because of what they're providing. So, I mean, the little bit of soy milk or whatever that they're going to have, I don't think that's going to make much difference. But I i mean, I've gone to lunch like at an elementary school where a lot of kids do, you know, get the school lunch. And yeah, it's just they all just throw the carton of milk unopened away and that they can't take it back and reserve it. So it's it's sad. My hope is for the for the long term there. And I do see this as a positive in that. Yes, of course, we need it to be made easier to be vegan for those that want to be and follow plant based diets for those that want to.
00:27:48
Speaker
but also the more normal it becomes to see a carton of something that is not dairy milk being used in its place. It it just plants a seed, doesn't it it? It shows that it's possible. It shows that some people don't live that way. So it's just attacking very slowly that normalization of consuming dairy secretions.
00:28:11
Speaker
But yeah, no, thank you for that one, both. And um we'll move away from the US ah Department of Agriculture pyramid now. I just zoomed into it. I think I did see a bottle of Gatorade on there, actually, Shane. um But we need to move on to to more good news. I know that Mark is delighted about this story because he has been looking for, a you know, he's lost his hand cream recently. Because that's been had beeswax and lanolin added to it. But the good news is he can now get vegan cardboard boxes, which I know is a big, big weight on his mind. Smurf It Westrock have come to his aid. They have released this week the first, well, they are the first packaging company to be certified by the Vegan Society. um They seem to be coinciding this with Veganry judging by the press release, although maybe sustainabilitymag.com have inserted that bit in. You might be wondering, listeners, what is it in a cardboard box that might not be vegan? um Well, Smurfit West Rock talk about the fact that the packaging products come from a vegan conscious supply chain. So the paper, the glue, the starch and inks are sourced from eco-conscious supplies, as well as obviously not containing any animal products. And it's interesting this, Mark, I mean, you know, I suppose we can turn anything into news really, but the the more you read down this, you say that, oh, actually 49% of shoppers are willing to pay more for sustainable packaging. I mean, decisions that businesses make have huge ramifications. You know, what if one business changes a product or a part of its supply chain or whatever, that can have an impact much greater than one person deciding to do something. So yeah, Is this bigger news or is this is this just filler? So we gave you another story to talk about. When I was reading it the first, I was thinking this is really niche progress. I'd never ever in my, I think, four decades of being vegan and an activist ever considered that the packaging that my
00:30:22
Speaker
things were arriving in could be anything other than just cardboard. And they were, I never gave a second thought to whether there was vegan ingredients in a cardboard box, but what it does do is it represents a growing ecosystem in the commercial world of vegan of pure vegan products so the item inside the box is vegan the box itself is vegan and how could a box not be vegan it's when the glue could be animal sourced and the ink could be based on shellac and if you're wondering what shellac is it's a secretion made by certain types of beetles and they secreted onto trees and then this is scraped off and mixed with alcohol to create ink It's been going on for thousands of years. And now they have a vegan ink stores. And you get tattoos also offering vegan ink in their tatt in their tattoo partners. It may seem a very, as I say, a very niche area of concern. But as I say, it does represent a growing commercial
00:31:19
Speaker
sort of 100% vegan delivery to type of process. So it's what it represents more more than the the actuality itself. It's good news amongst all the other bad news in the world. This is good news and it is and it is a step forward and and it does mean that that people in commerce are thinking of this about this and they are responding to the statistics that you were quoting there, Anthony, where more and more people are are prepared to to pay slightly more for packaging or anything else that ah that that that reflects their values. So it's positive and hats off to Smurfit Westrocks. Yeah, packaging.
00:31:55
Speaker
So, yeah, good on Smurfit Westrocks for paying attention to this sort of detail. Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of products that having a big vegan logo on could make a big difference, I would have thought a big cardboard box, like that's that's great, isn't it? I don't want a tiny little bit of string that's tying something up to go vegan. and And well, of course, I want it to go vegan. But like, You can't really write the word vegan on there, but like a load of boxes stacked up next to one of them that say the word vegan. Surely the more we see the word um in our day-to-day lives, that the the better for the animals in the long run. So
Marriott's Cage-Free Egg Pledge
00:32:33
Speaker
yeah, we'll definitely take this one.
00:32:35
Speaker
We'll move on to our last story before we look at picks of the week. This one is from the Washington Post, the world's largest hotel chain that is Marriott Hotels. I imagine most listeners have heard of Marriott Hotels, even if they've not stayed in one. They are ruffling feathers apparently by failing to pledge to use only cage-free eggs. Well,
00:33:01
Speaker
why Why is that a news story? You might be wondering. Well, they did set some animal welfare goals and basically bunch of animal activists have said, you set these goals and you're falling short of them. There's a great picture of somebody dressed up in a chicken's outfit from head to toe, which Yeah, it looks like it was very warm and they've got bilingual signs basically saying, Marriott, don't turn a blind eye to animal suffering, go cage free. Shane, you've had a look at this one.
00:33:35
Speaker
The article reports on on a protest that happened in Philadelphia just before Christmas. And I mean, we've got to say kudos to activists for for taking note of this pledge and saying, Oi, you said you'd do this and you haven't. Like, good for them.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, they have a worldwide protest against Marriott because even though they had pledged that by the end of 2025, they pledged this twice in both 2013 and 2018, that they would, all the eggs at their facilities would be cage-free.
00:34:06
Speaker
They were not even close to realizing that goal. Apparently, of the Marriott managed properties, 40% of those in the world were serving cage-free eggs and 92% in the US.
00:34:18
Speaker
So the activists are, I think, rightly pointing out that this is just an example of corporate greed and greenwashing. It looks like Marriott probably wanted to look good when they made this pledge. And this was back in 2013 when a lot of other companies were making similar pledges.
00:34:36
Speaker
But now that they are arguing, oh, it's it's too hard to do this because they say that they had so much loss of revenue during the pandemic. And that also, as we all know, there's a bird flu pandemic going around and that's raising egg prices. And so they're saying it's making cage-free too expensive.
00:34:55
Speaker
But the activists are not going to let up the pressure. They're tired of waiting and they want Marriott to fulfill their commitment. And so they are saying they're going to protest until the pledges are met. Now, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, does not support cage-free or conventional egg production. And they're quoted in the article as saying that both of them cause abominable suffering to chickens.
00:35:20
Speaker
So i'm kind of inclined to agree with PETA on this one. Yeah, absolutely. It's good to get the headline. It's good to draw attention to to what's, you know, people falling short of of what they're promised. Well, not people. It's it's a business, isn't it? you know And yes, there is that slight, it's not a contradiction, is it? But it's ah is not looking at the long-term future for for chickens if they're just killed and farmed in ah in a different way. Yeah, I agree that this is probably greenwashing.
00:35:52
Speaker
yes And then they've kind of gotten caught up in it and now they're being called out on it and um it didn't go the way they thought it was going to go. But this is the danger with these really long term goals, isn't it? We've commented on the on the show before. So often these welfare pledges are, oh, this is going to end 13 years time. there's a very good chance that people are going to forget about it or they're going to keep putting it off or what have you. Whereas perhaps if it was more urgent, they were they would actually see it through. But yeah, good on these activists for not letting up whether or not we approve of free range eggs or not. We're going to take a quick break now. And then when we come back, we are going to look at Kate and Shane
00:36:39
Speaker
and Mark's pick for the week. We are looking at beagle rescuers being found not guilty in a trial. We're looking at vets under pressure. And unfortunately, we're looking at a very sad race meet.
00:36:54
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
00:37:14
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. going spell it all for you. Zencaster is Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R.com and then a forward slash and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen and then week.
00:37:36
Speaker
zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week. And then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on. Yeah, yeah, you get the person dressed up as a chicken to do that.
00:37:49
Speaker
Oh!
00:37:54
Speaker
Right. We have just been in the break talking about the ah best way to disrupt a hotel and we decided it was dressed up as a chicken. That was the best way to do it. um But more more on that in another episode. We told you we were going to talk about picks for the week. We're going to come to Kate's
Animal Rights Activism and Legal Outcomes
00:38:10
Speaker
first. And Kate, this is really good news. We have got Not Guilty... verdicts in a animal testing burglary trial there's loads of not guilties going on at the moment we've seen them in uh seeing them in the grand national and this time it's it's to do with the mbr beagles do you want to tell us some more about this kate and why it's your pick for the week Yeah, this is really helpful. Some Animal Rising defendants. This time it was four people, part of a group of perhaps up to about 20 people, I think. They have had their trial. They've been found not guilty of burglary. Altogether,
00:38:51
Speaker
between them all they rescued about 18 puppies who were all going to be either sent to a laboratory to have hideous tests done on them or they were apparently they harvest their organs at this disgusting place and drain their blood anyway they There's footage if you want to go see it. It's really amazing, quite inspiring. These people, they they got in, they handed the puppies over the fences. It's really facty factory farming for dogs.
00:39:26
Speaker
And then at the end of it all, they did get caught up with the security staff, but they handed themselves in. Those that had run away were the dogs. They came back. they all handed themselves in because it's termed open rescue. They were all wearing bright pink t-shirts saying, put animal testing on trial. So they actually wanted to get arrested. That was their aim. This is the second trial. The first trial, unfortunately, i think it was about five people, they were found guilty of burglary.
00:40:04
Speaker
And thank you to Shane, who who sent an article by Wayne Husing, who said that he thought that they perhaps lost because they based their arguments on facts rather than saying that animal testing didn't work. Whereas this second trial, um what they did was tell stories, tell of their sense of injustice, how they love animals, tell of some of the stories about, you know, one guy who worked in Ukraine with rescued dogs. And apparently some of the jury actually cried when hearing this and seeing some of the footage that they were allowed to show, which was the rescued dogs, I believe. And they were acquitted 100%. Everybody found them not guilty of blu burglary. And the summing up, I think, oh, the the prosecution, I mean, really, they they kind of, they shot themselves in their foot in the foot because they actually compared the dogs to cans of beans and, you know, i e that their commodity, their property, and more or less said, suck it up, you know, it's the law. Whereas the defence in their closing arguments provided the jury with a route to acquit. and They said you must look for dishonesty in their actions because that is the only factor this case on depends upon. If you cannot find dishonesty and therefore believe the defendants acted honestly, you must acquit. I mean, all their tools that they use, they were fluorescent pink, you know, they were they they were calm. They were saying, yeah, don't worry, we're going to hand ourselves in. They were, you know, if that they were completely upfront about what they were doing.
00:41:55
Speaker
And hooray, hooray, they they've been acquitted. And there is, I believe, there's one more trial going to happen. So just got to cross fingers that this trial also shows that the public are, they're on the side of rescuing these animals. They believe that they deserve freedom. and the the the first guys, apparently that they're awaiting their sentence. So we don't know what's going to happen to them yet So how different two trials? Same judge, apparently. same judge. So yeah, good news. Good news.
00:42:33
Speaker
There's a couple of things I wanted to say about this one. One was the fact that this is, as you've mentioned, it's trial by jury, which I think several of the comments on the Facebook reporting that we looked at from Animal Rising commented on that, which said, kind of separate from animal rights but actually because animal rights ends up involving the legal system it's just a nudge to that actually that that's arguably going to give better outcomes for animals if deep down we all care about animals then having a representative group of people just everyday people
00:43:09
Speaker
reaching a verdict. Arguably, you're more likely to get a pro-animal one. I don't know. Maybe that's another point to discuss. um And the other one, I would just recommend Folk, if you go into Animal Rising's social media or a lot of other similar organisations, they've got this testimony from all I can describe as the tallest male-looking of the four um who were acquitted. um And he talks about his experience of of being in the dock and and And basically, as you say, Kate, how how he went about providing his testimony and and it was just being really honest about what what happened. But i'd well recommend giving that a watch. It's only a couple of minutes long. So the the first trial was against with us against with a jury as well, but it did turn out against actually, sadly. But how interesting that they learned from that. So... But just to say that, um so this company MBR that's based and MBR b Beagle, Acres, sorry. Yeah, it's Beagle Dogs and it's an American company. Apparently I didn't know that. They did have a breeding facility in Italy.
00:44:21
Speaker
which was shut down. it had roughly 3,000 dogs that were rehomed. and And that was after 2012 undercover investigation that revealed criminally poor conditions and treatment of dogs at their site. Three senior employees received prison time. And in the period of 2008 to over 6,000 dogs died at that facility. So although that is horrible, it would it's brilliant that that facility was shut down. And so i guess it gives the activists hope that it can be shut down in the UK as well. So let's hope so. Yeah. and And let's hope the first story that you reported on in this week's show doesn't interfere with that. And that if it's ever it's cited as being part of national infrastructure, oh that makes an open rescue a very different proposition. But I think we will find out how that changes things in the near future, because there's a lot of committed people who are campaigning very actively. against MBR Acres. Not too far from where you live, eh, Kate?
Veterinary Practices and Animal Care
00:45:33
Speaker
No. Thank you for that one. Right, let's move on to Shane's pick of the week. Shane, you're talking about UK vets.
00:45:40
Speaker
Why? What's the deal with UK vets at the moment? Well, they are under corporate pressure to increase their revenue, according to the BBC News. And i I chose this article because it's a little bit close to home for me right now. One of the cats that lives with me, her name is Mickey and she's 13. She's been losing weight over the last year.
00:45:59
Speaker
And so I've had her into the vet a lot and she's just recently had to get x-rays. ah She has to get an ultrasound coming up. there are The vet is afraid it might be cancer. So we're going to be very soon looking at how much money we can afford to pay for treatments.
00:46:13
Speaker
But my vet is an independent practice. And this article is detailing more about how corporate investors have been buying up independent practices in the UK and then demanding that the vets, what I would say, upsell blood work, x-rays, ultrasounds. And the evidence for this is that the BBC reported that prices charged by UK vets rose by 63% just between 2016 and 2023.
00:46:41
Speaker
just between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty three And then they also spoke to an anonymous vet who works for the UK's largest vet provider, IVC Evidentia. And they said the company has introduced a new monitoring system that encourages vets to offer pet owners costly tests and treatment options.
00:47:02
Speaker
um They also detailed how six large veterinary groups control 60% of the UK pet market. And um if you're wondering if the practice you use is one of those, these are Linnaeus, Medivet, Vet Partners, CVS Group, Pets at Home, and IVC Evidentia.
00:47:22
Speaker
So I think what we're seeing here is the same kind of consolidation that we're seeing in other industries. Anthony, earlier in the episode, you mentioned private equity firms. This might be a case of that, but I know in the United States, private equity firms have been buying up a lot of affordable housing in areas and then raising the rents so that middle-income people cannot afford to live there. There's also been situations where nursing homes have been bought and then they start cutting corners and so that the care becomes substandard. And just personally, I've seen it in the dance competition world, which I am unfortunately part of, where
00:47:58
Speaker
You used to have these dance competitions that were all independent. They keep their same name, but there's a ah group that comes in and buys them all up. And then they start raising prices and people pay the prices. So of course they keep raising prices.
00:48:12
Speaker
um So this was a great article. It had a lot of personal anecdotes that, you know, people feel like they're being ripped off. And so I think it's just important that if you feel that way, shop around and try to find a vet that you feel that you can trust. I mean, it's it's so insidious, isn't it? And like you can be for or against capitalism, but like that there need to be some things that are safeguarded from its clutches and different countries in different parts of the world We'll have different sort of stances on that, I i suppose. But if if we value animals, then, you know, that their care needs to have integrity, doesn't it? Not not just like, oh, well, upsell them some blood work and yeah, we'll we'll be on our way. It's it's horrid. when When you own a pet and if they become ill, especially as they get older, it becomes really hard. if you If you haven't got that much money to to cut, you feel so guilty. You think, oh gosh, this whatever is going to cost £2,000, £3,000, £4,000.
00:49:17
Speaker
I love my pet and the vet here wants to provide the best care. I'm going to have to scrimp and save or else, or I can't really afford that. And then you feel so guilty if you, if you think, oh, maybe I've got to have my, my pet put to sleep, my, my lovely animal put to sleep. I mean, You feel guilty. you don't want to lose your lovely your lovely companion animal. It's just so difficult. Yeah, it's it's a really hard choice and it's just so unfair that this is happening.
00:49:49
Speaker
And also, I just wanted to say that, you know, and knowing one or two vets on the inside, vegan vets, you know, a lot of these companies also own massive meat dog pet food, meaty pet food companies as well. And so they are really pushing meat based diets for for dogs, cats, etc. They are not and a lot of vets just from their education, they're not, you know, they're not very knowledgeable on plant based diets. I'm hoping to educate mine a bit more.
00:50:26
Speaker
But um yeah, so but so that's also a massive issue is is the fact that they they they're so entwined with all these meat pet food companies. I think talking about how how they're taking advantage of people who are in a vulnerable situation, because when you go into a ah the veterinarian end office and your animal is sick, or they tell you something is wrong, and then you're thinking, you know, that's a point when when you're very vulnerable because whatever they suggest, you might be willing to pay whatever that is. And that's what some of these people in the article were talking about, how they would do anything because they love their companion animal. And um then they felt taken advantage of.
00:51:05
Speaker
So i guess the government is calling for more transparency. I think that's kind of vague. I'm not sure what that means, but um they're calling for more transparency and pricing.
Ethical Issues in Horse Racing
00:51:14
Speaker
Interesting to see how that one develops. Thank you for that one, Shane. Mark, you've been very patient there.
00:51:22
Speaker
We're going to come to your pick of the week now. It comes from a place not too far from me. I'm right on the Welsh border here in Shropshire. And it sounds like a very bad day at the races at Kempton Park recently. Sure is. It's mass murder, basically. So at these races, there was three horses killed at one single race.
00:51:43
Speaker
And the British Horse Racing Authority, the BHA, are launching an investigation into this sort of body count. What really struck me about the article was the lack of awareness and the victim shifting almost on the on the part of the people who, quote unquote, own. Alex Ferguson and was destined for greater things and injured his shoulder when he was trying to take a jump and apparently hot had to be put down humanely of course with the euthanization I do recall a friend of mine going to a similar type of horse racing Galway in the west of Ireland and a horse there breaking his leg and they simply put sort of a but a bunch of blankets a bunch of guys stood around the injured horse lying prone on the ground with them in the head and it was as callous as that and the way they talk about this this tragedy really it's as if they they had nothing to do with it they say things like it's a sad day when you lose horses like that it's hard on the whole team it's a big kick in the teeth for everyone the owners the poor girl who looks after him you hate to see that happen with no reference to the impact that they're training and the way they push these animals beyond their capabilities to take these massive jumps that they wouldn't do in the wild naturally
00:53:13
Speaker
And then the inevitable happens, like they injure or they break a bone, and then they just kill the poor animal. And it's like as if they just lost a pair of glasses or or they can't find where their shoes are or something. The flippancy and the lack of importance around this, it was it was it was sort of embarrassing to read. here's Here's another quote from the British Horse Racing Authority um where they say, sorry, I'm just going to find it here.
00:53:38
Speaker
British Horse Racing Authority issued a statement saying, at this stage, there does not to be any common factor that can be attributed to these three incidents of three horses dying in one race with each of the injuries. I can think of one. I yeah i can think of one, yeah. They were all horses racing against their own will. There was only one common factor, and it's you guys. And it's just this... this i sure of if it's if it's famed or if it's real but this lack of awareness about what they're doing and the way they all feel sad about the killing this of this animal as if they had nothing to to ah do with it. There's no real sense of the gravitas of this at all. It it makes me sick really sort of read their the flippancy is appalling. But it's almost like we should feel sad for the them. For them. Because a know the girl who takes care of the horse, it's not about the horse being killed that we should feel sad for. It's about their loss and their sad feelings about it. Yeah, no, it was terrible. The the attitude that they had toward towards towards these animals was really appalling.
00:54:38
Speaker
And it's as disgusting as the attitude that fox hunters have. had, have, when I was sabbing over in the UK many years ago, i was sort all about them.
00:54:51
Speaker
And they had no real, and and and it reflected their attitude about themselves and the animals that they mistreating, that if something bad happens to their property, which is how they see these things, it it it hits them.
00:55:04
Speaker
It hits their pockets and it makes them feel sad, as if they're the ones who are being euthanized to death by ah you know a vet, again, vets are playing a poant role in the animal abuse system here. And it's it's it's really appalling, the attitude that they have towards and the atoms that they abuse and that they make money from is appalling and this should be up in the dog I found it really interesting that, I mean, that this is this could be studied. if you if you were If there was a university course or a school course or something on speciesism or carnism what have you, this would be a really interesting article to study because actually a lot of the things are contradictory. So there you've've you've mentioned, Mark, that that the fact that we're looking at animals as property and it's a really objectifying thing. But then in the next sentence almost, that they're talking about the horses like they are their colleagues or like they're consenting yeah sports players. um You know, oh, he's won a grade one and he had a big future. There's no doubt about that. but well, no, he didn't have a big future. Like he wasn't going to retire off these winnings from this race. He was just going to be doing it again and again, again. He doesn't know if he's won.
00:56:24
Speaker
You know, you know what what an absurd thing to say. Like it's all through your eyes that he's got a big future. You as his owner, as his trainer, as his rider, you've got a great future that through using him, exploiting him. But like he he's not going, oh, I'll be on match of the day later talking about this. Oh, I'm going to probably going to get a sponsorship deal from Adidas off the back of this win. What a nonsense. So that there's there's all manner of mental gymnastics and delusion going on. It's bizarre. there's a There's a quote in here from one of people involved saying, he's a big, bold horse who attacks his fences. And those horses, when they do that, can end up having a bad fall. They attack those fences because they're
00:57:05
Speaker
forced into doing that because they're equipped and abused if they don't. they Again, and to back up what you saying, it's as if the horse was a willing, knowing, conscious participant in this abuse.
00:57:16
Speaker
He isn't. He's forced into that position because he's making lots of money for his so-called owners. And the way they portray this, it's as if he's an equal. He's not. He's a piece of property. He's a piece of meat to them. He's a money-making machine. And as soon as he can't do that anymore, he is killed.
00:57:32
Speaker
He's been described there as almost reckless, you know, like, no, you know, he's wanted to that tackle a bit too heavy, really. He should know better. His managers told him different. It's like, no, no, you've made him do that. what What utter nonsense. Yeah, I was just going to add to it. was just as a the quote, you know, he was a bright talent who was fresh and happy doing his work. every day often playing around and expressing himself. He loved his job and I'm so sad for his Heart of South Syndicate, who are the most wonderful group of people.
00:58:05
Speaker
mean, blah! Sympathy for the syndicate. There's a phrase you don't often hear. um I'm coming to this recording just off the back of protesting outside a greyhound racing track. And one of the fellow protesters was holding a placard that says one dog dies every three days, as in like, if you take the number of deaths over a year that averages out as one every three days. Of course, that's not the reality. It doesn't happen like that. And but part of me is thinking like this investigation is obviously nonsense. It's obviously humane washing or or what have you. But that the fact is, the way that statistics work, there is going to be a day with an industry that this that is this dangerous, there is going to be a day where three horses die on the same day. I'd be surprised if they do find that there was anything about the conditions or the course or anything. that led to it. It's just the way that the odds are stacked up in the same way that there could be a ah horse racing meet tomorrow and no horses happen to die on that day. That doesn't mean it's any less dangerous on that day. These are just the odds and it's it's just maths. So I think, ah I mean, they're just doing their PR, aren't they? But it's it's quite disingenuous to say, oh, well, if three horses died on one day, that that there must be something bad about that
00:59:25
Speaker
a that those conditions it can't possibly be the support as a whole but we can't expect any any different from that industry no thank you for that one mark that certainly got us talking and indeed we very much like the sound of you lovely listeners talking too i've had a couple of lovely emails this week as well as reading some comments that some of you have left on spotify which you can do on each episode on Spotify. So we love hearing from you. Email is probably the most direct way to get in touch. So going play some music now and tell you our email address and why we like hearing from you.
01:00:02
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
01:00:21
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Okay, we're not going to feature any more stories necessarily this week, but we did want to bring a couple things to your attention. We mentioned in a show, oh, was it was a couple weeks ago, Shane? I think it was with yourself and Dominic when we were looking at Farm Kind and the Forget Veganuary campaign, I seem to remember.
01:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, i think it was two weeks ago. Yeah, well, Carlos, wonderful Carlos that many of you know listening, sent us a link to a website that is called forgetfarmkind.com.
Veganuary and Anti-Vegan Campaigns
01:00:59
Speaker
And I'm not going to summarize all of it, but it is a wonderful bit of tongue in cheek backlash against the Farmkind campaign and their forget veganuary. Shane, Kate, Mark, any of you click through to this and have a look at this? What what did you think? yeah I thought it was very Gen Z coded because it was had like a lot of curse words and insults and um that seems like really trendy for like maybe a younger audience. It seems kind of like it's trying to be really cool, I guess. I don't know, maybe I'm just old and I'm like, all oh no, curse words.
01:01:36
Speaker
but I don't think I'm the audience. and I'm old. I'm old, but I still loved it. It's like, yes, this is exactly what I want to say to people. Just grow up, honestly. you know um it made me laugh. It kind of, I don't know, it kind of vented some of my frustrations. So i don't know. if it's i would love to know if it actually work.
01:02:03
Speaker
give somebody a little boot you know the backside to to think about veganism i don't know how you would find that out does it work that's the thing does it work or does it just make perhaps people like us feel better i don't know i don't think there's anything wrong with that latter one though kate like it it We don't like seeing things like the the ridiculous farm kind campaign where they're saying, oh we're going to get some competitive eaters to eat animal products all day. But don't worry, they're raising money to support animal ag being a bit less cruel or whatever. Like that takes a toll on us. So having a website that we can play a game, I've just played a game called, can you avoid going vegan without sounding like an idiot? And you drag this little character across the screen and you have to dodge, dodge little speech bubbles saying humans are superior. Animals don't understand morality. Most people eat meat and you've got to dodge all these excuses. And then at the end of the game, it tells you like how many animals were slaughtered during your stupid thing. So like, It is a bit educational, but it's fun. it's It's satire. I think making us feel better is a reasonable outcome, even if that's the only one.
01:03:16
Speaker
What do you think, Mark? I think so so it's reacting, obviously, to the resignation of one of the Veganuary Coordinator at left recently, and is now having you go at veganuary as a concept and saying that rather than avoiding paying for animal suffering we we we should simply to to donate to causes that help animals and farms it's it's so bizarre and her reasoning is i mean it's it's like so something out of viz comic right it's so obviously stupid without any foundation i sort of wonder has she been bought off by the meat industry to come out with this stuff and this is the best excuse she could give without actually saying
01:03:59
Speaker
i've now dropped my whole interest in veganism i'm being paid by some sort of corporation to react against it and i need to come up with some significant reason as to why that's happening rather than saying i've taken a bribe so i'm saying that so her quote there's a quote from her here in gb news but uh she is saying you can only stop eating the amount of meat you currently eat so your impact is capped there's no theoretical limits to the good you can do by donating of course there's a limit to the good you can do you only have so much money so from the very get-go it's just it's it's ridiculous and it's really odd it must be quite embarrassing for the people who knew were in the veganuary campaign the veganuary it's it's it comes from for a lot of criticism about the baby steps and all that and people saying that only babies need baby steps and grow up and just just just take on board the moral outrage of what you're
01:04:52
Speaker
paying for and become vegan twelve months a year rather than but than than one month a year. I must say that Veganuary is probably one of the most successful social change movements possibly ever in terms of its speed.
01:05:05
Speaker
and It's introduced millions of people to vegan eating. whether they're continuing it on through February through to December or not, is anyone's guess. I suppose a certain percentage will, a certain percentage won't, but the very fact that it's helping to normalize veganism amongst the populace is a huge thing because the normalization of this issue is one of the big, huge problems we have.
01:05:27
Speaker
It's not the availability of vegan food. It's not the arguments that we present. It's people feeling that they're standing up or they're being left out out by being vegan. So this is and a very good analysis of veganuary in the Phoenix Project or Project Phoenix, I forget what it's called, about this saying that it's it's an invitation to people who wouldn't normally be interested in veganism. They say that when we when we as vegans try and encourage other people to go vegan, what's off-putting to those people is that theyre they think that they have to adopt the identity
01:06:03
Speaker
of being vegan and they're scared of that and there's a lot of truth in that there's a lot of psychological human truth in that statement so by making it more attractive and ostensibly temporary rather than a permanent change it introduces this thing it normalizes it and allows people to continue being vegan which a lot of them will throughout the year so as i say that this this reaction this farm kind thing is laughable i'm surprised that therere saying this with a straight face it is so stupid that that you think that you you can't do both that you can't be vegan
01:06:36
Speaker
um donate money to animal welfare chares or to the animal liberation front or whoever you wanted to make money to you can chew gum and walk at the same time it's it's a ridiculous proposition it's laughable and as i say it's it's it comes straight out of the pages of viz if you don't know what viz is it's a great comic that satirizes the news and a bit like the onion over in the united states but it's in more of a comic format and it satirizes as the hypocrisy and stupidity of a lot of walkers on a society. So it's like straight out of the pages of that.
01:07:06
Speaker
I have to say, i did have a little thought that perhaps, I mean, they did get a huge amount of press coverage with all of this, as you said, you know, as TV news and all the rest. But I did wonder, you know,
01:07:19
Speaker
Is it kind of a sneaky way to get people to you know, who are real carnivores, you know, to like, yeah, it's kind of a chink in their armour that, oh, yeah, factory farming is abhorrent. Yes, it's, a you know, and it might be the first time they've ever allowed that thought through their skull. I did wonder if maybe this is just, I don't know, not no idea, make just ah an initial stab. I don't know. I think we could spend all day trying to ah guess the motivations of it. But um yeah, the the fact that um they've appeared on the GB News does does rather say everything that you need
Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
01:08:01
Speaker
to know. I heard a brilliant nickname for GB News.
01:08:05
Speaker
Some listeners might not know what GB News is or what it stands for. It's very right wing and very dumbed down, I would say. And the nickname was GBBs, which I loved. We've got a ah TV channel. in the UK called CBeebies that is aimed at about 18 month old children. and So I really like that nickname.
01:08:25
Speaker
Anyway, we have come to the end of our time together. We do hope that you've enjoyed the show. We always ask at the end of the show if there is a little something you could do in exchange. And here comes a nice little list of them.
01:08:38
Speaker
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01:09:04
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. Thanks, everybody, for listening.
01:09:15
Speaker
We really appreciate you. um Thank you, Shane. You're amazing. Thank you, Mark. You're brilliant. And thanks, Anthony. You're not bad either, Kate. Thank you. Sorry.
01:09:28
Speaker
And if you can't get enough of us, that is no problem because our vegan talk shows drop on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays this month. These episodes feature everyday vegans telling their journeys to veganism.
01:09:43
Speaker
The next Vegan Talk episode is coming out on Thursday, January 22nd with Aunt Carlos and Kate, and they will be discussing the ethics of feeding companion animals a plant-based diet or not And if that is still not enough of the falafel for you, you can check out our news review of the year and our big vegan quiz of the year. Those dropped at the end of 2025. They are episodes for the news review and episode for the big vegan quiz. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you to Shane, Anthony, and Kate for your contributions.
01:10:24
Speaker
Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been and remain Mark, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:10:36
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsflap.com.
01:10:50
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:11:17
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:11:38
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from