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Episode 2: Canadian True Crime
51 Plays4 years ago
It's episode 2! And it's time for some Canucks who are f**ked up. Kelsey covers the story of a guy you don't want to accept ANY free drinks from (and that's saying something coming from me!) After that, Alanna covers her first "monster". We promise you'll never look at a tv antenna the same again. You know how TVs used to have antennas for reception? .....no? Then you are not old enough to listen to this podcast. Sorry. Trigger warning, it's a nasty one. So crack open a cold one, because you are gonna need it for Canadian True Crime.
linktr.ee/castlesandcryptids Website: castlesandcryptidspod.squarespace.com
Tags: Allan Legere, Monster of the Miramichi, Gilbert Paul Jordan, Boozing Barber, The Alcohol Murders
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Castles and Cryptids' Podcast
00:00:20
Speaker
you are listening to castles and cryptids where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic
00:00:27
Speaker
as well.
Canadian True Crime Focus in Episode Two
00:00:35
Speaker
This is episode two of Castles and Cryptids and we are going to today to Canadian True Crime. A couple of Canadian girls sharing some Canadian True Crime. Up north, don't you know? How about it? How about today?
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm going east with mine. Mine's west. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. We're going to like kind of the hometown murder or as my favorite murder would say. Yeah. Yeah. Mine's far west. How far? B.C.? Okay. Okay. That's British Columbia for those of you. Throw some geography at ya.
00:01:27
Speaker
Oh, geography sounds good. Yeah. So I will be first this week.
The Infamous Case of Gilbert Paul Jordan
00:01:35
Speaker
And mine's a little bit shorter. Sure. Yeah, not too short, though. But I am covering Gilbert Paul Jordan. He has two nicknames. So his crimes are called the alcohol murders. And he has also been called the boozing barber.
00:01:57
Speaker
Oh, no. Not great. Okay. So this is the alcohol. So from lack of alcohol. No, an abundance of alcohol. Oh, okay. Yeah, too much alcohol.
00:02:21
Speaker
All right. So just a quick overview here. He is attributed to have approximately between eight and 10 victims and murders took place. Yeah, he's a serial killer. Murders took place from 1965 to 1987. So. Oh, that's before we were born. Yeah, a little bit of back in the history. Not too far, though.
00:02:53
Speaker
I haven't heard of him. I hadn't either at all, but I found kind of the same information over and over again. There isn't much else I could find other than pretty much what I put in here and I'm going to tell you guys. Sounds good. So Jordan was born December 12th, 1931 in Vancouver, BC, so super West.
00:03:19
Speaker
Oh wow, my best friend growing up's birthday is December 12th. She's a Sagittarius. Well, hopefully, they're usually, yeah, hopefully she wasn't born in 1931 though. I don't think so. So his family members described from a young age that he had a bad temper and had kind of a Jekyll and Hyde personality.
00:03:42
Speaker
And the reason why I picked him is he is attributed as the first Canadian to use alcohol as a murder weapon. And he's the first person in the world to be put on trial for homicide with alcohol consumption as the murder weapon. What? Alcohol consumption. Yeah. Interesting. So they were like,
00:04:10
Speaker
like alcohol poisoning is what we call it. I have a little bit of information on that we'll get to in a bit. Yeah.
Jordan's Methods and Victims
00:04:20
Speaker
Okay. So a little bit of background on Jordan here. He is a lifelong criminal. He was in and out of prison for multiple different types of crimes. And one of his stints in prison, he learned how to be a barber.
00:04:36
Speaker
His main criminal record started when he was in his early 20s in 1952 with the convictions of rape and decent assault, abduction of a five-year-old Indigenous girl that was found in his car, hit and run, own multiple drunk driving.
00:04:59
Speaker
Was the girl alive? Yeah. So she was just abducted. He actually was never charged with anything for abducting this five-year-old indigenous girl. That doesn't surprise me. He was actually not charged with really anything. They got him on very little, which is horrific, considering he has like a 30-year crime spree.
00:05:30
Speaker
Oh, great, great. So he was, yeah, he was also an avid drunk driving person, including being charged with drunk driving twice in one day. Oh, good lord. They didn't know he was arrested. I think back then they didn't impound your vehicle or anything. You probably just got a ticket.
00:05:59
Speaker
And he was also charged with car theft. Okay, that makes sense. I'm getting a picture here. So he's a dropout. He was believed to be an alcohol starting by the age 16. And then this is kind of dates back about that time his parents actually got a divorce.
00:06:24
Speaker
Um, so that's believed to what caused him to drop out and, um, become relying on alcohol so heavily. I mean, sounds familiar, but you don't have to go that far down that road. He goes far. He goes real far.
00:06:43
Speaker
Whoa. All right. You can do it. Don't do what this gentleman did at all. We were watching something the other day. I don't know if it was Forensic Files. I love Forensic Files, don't get me wrong. But it was just like, and her parents were divorced. So
00:07:06
Speaker
they obviously didn't pay attention to her, but she did kill her father. So I was like, obviously something was wrong there, but don't blame it all. Anyway, continue. So later on, uh, probably in his early twenties when he was in and out of prison. So he's described as having a ravenous appetite for booze and drunken sex. So
00:07:34
Speaker
Great descriptor there. Jordan is also, I don't know at what point in his life this is from. I'd say probably before he was in prison and one of the stints, and actually his crimes were found out. So Jordan was known for drinking more than 50 ounces of vodka each day, which equates to almost two full water bottles of vodka.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Okay. In New Brunswick, we called a court. There's like a 26-ounceer, I want to say. Yeah, so you drink two of those. That's a lot. A vodka, straight vodka. Okay. I do feel better about myself now than my mom.
00:08:23
Speaker
So his main target for crimes were Indigenous prostitutes in downtown Vancouver. So what happened is he regularly paid them to drink with him or to have sex with them, obviously. So after his stint in prison where he learned how to be a barber, he had actually received money around this time from a family member that passed away. So he got quite a large inheritance. He bought a barber shop.
00:08:53
Speaker
This is how he was able to pay these women to drink with him as well as have sex with him. And then he also started paying for a multitude of cheap hotel rooms or hourly hotel rooms. So he would take the women back to the barbershop to drink with him or back to hotel rooms. Oh, one question. Do we know where he's on?
00:09:19
Speaker
It sounds a whole lot like the Demon Barber of Fleet Street, but in Vancouver. It could be the Demon Barber of Robson, perhaps. I don't know. I don't. Oh, they do actually. I have the address. So his barbershop was at 2503 Kingsway. I don't have the address.
00:09:46
Speaker
We have a Kingsman here. Yeah but this was in, yeah this is not in Alberta though. Whoops, triangulating my address again. Okay well but yeah there's some very seedy parts in and around Vancouver. Yeah this was downtown. So downtown always has seedy areas and downtown anywhere. Lots of homeless people there very like you know
00:10:14
Speaker
would think almost, you know, it's like the LA of the Canadian West Coast. And so once his victims passed out, he would typically force and pour more alcohol down their throats, eventually killing them. And unfortunately, he did also often rape his victims as they died. So. Oh, yeah.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, both our guys are assholes this week. If you look him up, he just looks like a creep. He just looks like his picture just makes sense with everything you learn about him. His face looks like he did all these things. Yeah, we'll have to post some pics of him.
00:11:04
Speaker
So some information about alcohol poisoning. So death by alcohol poisoning occurs typically at 0.4. The legal limit for driving, at least in Canada here, is 0.08. Correct. So the states anyway. So chugging approximately 12 beers results in a blood alcohol level of 0.3. So again, alcohol poisoning is 0.4.
00:11:34
Speaker
So the point when a person usually blacks out is point three. So to die of alcohol poisoning, the victim has to drink a lot of alcohol very fast. No kidding. I mean, you hear of, yeah, people going to the hospital for it, but like, yeah, you, that's really serious to actually be killed. Yeah. So.
00:12:04
Speaker
because you'd normally pass out before you can ingest enough. And so I see how he's like pushing it over the edge by then pouring more into their mouths. That's bad. So.
Legal Proceedings and Systemic Issues
00:12:19
Speaker
Just ruining the alcohol just some more. Is this an intervention? It's not. I picked this and then I was like, oh God, I'm gonna talk about alcohol for like 40 minutes.
00:12:33
Speaker
Alcohol poisoning. Here's how I tell you the facts. All right. We're cool. We're cool. You can pick up your wine again. So, uh, Gilbert Paul Jordan, his name wasn't always that his name was actually Paul Elise, Elsie. I'm not sure how that's pronounced. So, uh, I don't know what year it is exactly.
00:13:03
Speaker
I don't have it in my notes, but he did actually legally change his name to last name to Jordan. Um, and the application was approved. This is after one of the first murders he committed. Yeah. So he was worried about it being traced back to him and he did legally change his name. Because of the murder.
00:13:29
Speaker
Because he was seen with these women, he was like known to frequent these bars, known to hang around these women, leave with them, pay them for sex. I suppose this is kind of pre DNA testing if it's if you went until 1987. So he's like, I would change my name. Exactly.
00:13:54
Speaker
Of course, because a lot of these women were prostitutes and were indigenous as well. The deaths were largely ignored by police and ruled typically just as alcohol poisoning because that's what it was. So they weren't believed necessarily to be like foul play. Yeah. So that's a problem here.
00:14:20
Speaker
So Jordan was first convicted of manslaughter in 1988 with the death of Vanessa Lee Buckner. She was found murdered in the hotel room after a night of drinking with Jordan. And approximately a month later, Edna Shade was found in another hotel and Jordan's fingerprints were found at this scene and he was linked to another death. And at this time, the police placed him under surveillance.
00:14:52
Speaker
Okay, so the he officially after the second death that he's associated with, he's placed under surveillance, obviously, like witnesses said, Yeah, they left together things like that. Okay, okay. But they can't exactly need like, gotcha concrete proof that he is causing this to happen. So there is a multitude of police intervening
00:15:20
Speaker
during attempted murders. So police intervened during a later attempted murder after witnessing him pouring alcohol down a woman's throat. You think that it, yeah, witnessing him. So they did have him under surveillance. And I'll talk a bit more about that in a little bit, because that was not fun. And in my opinion, they
00:15:46
Speaker
decided to keep going after getting more and more evidence against him instead of actually just going based on what they already had. They were endangering these women as well. Yeah. Oh, okay. So during trial, the Crown provided evidence that Jordan was linked to at least six other deaths of Aboriginal women as well as evidence that he had been following women at the time of their death. So
00:16:15
Speaker
Just to remind everybody, alcohol poisoning occurs at 0.4. So the deaths that the crown provided evidence for, for the death of Mary Johnson, November 30th, 1980, her blood alcohol level was 0.34. There's Barbara Paul, September 11th, 1981, her blood alcohol level was 0.41.
00:16:43
Speaker
Mary John's July 30th, 1982. This was at his barbershop. Her blood alcohol level was 0.76. So almost twice the amount of alcohol poisoning. Is that right? That's more alcohol than blood? That's 76%
00:17:10
Speaker
I actually don't know how that works. I didn't look that part up. That's insane though. Like okay, I get what you're saying with the .4. Yeah, it's not even the worst one by far.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, 0.8 you're driving drunk, 0.08 rather. So the fourth one was Patricia Thomas, December 15th, 1984. Her blood alcohol was 0.51. There was Patricia Andrew, June 28th, 1985. Her blood alcohol was 0.79. And last attributed to him was Vera Harry.
00:17:55
Speaker
November 19th in 1986, her blood alcohol was 0.04. So that was actually severely low considering the other ones. So she would have even been able to drive.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure like that one is attributed to him. There wasn't a lot of information about the specifics of these women's like individual interactions with him. Okay. Yeah, there might not be more of that story ones that were
00:18:36
Speaker
I listed those six are what was attributed to him after the fact. So these weren't the ones that the police were monitoring because they had already occurred at the time he was convicted. So the one that caused him to be convicted is October 12th, 1987, Vanessa Lee Buckner was found naked on the floor of a Niagara hotel after a night of drinking with Jordan.
00:19:01
Speaker
Court records describe Ms. Buckner's death as a result of Jordan supplying a lethal amount of liquor to a female alcoholic who died as a result. There is a little bit of back and forth about what her background is. So some things stated that she was an upstanding citizen. They have no idea why she was out drinking with him or would have been drinking because that's not what she did.
00:19:28
Speaker
Other things state that she had recently lost custody of her newborn baby who had been born with a drug dependency. So it's like wildly from one end to the other, what kind of lifestyle she had. But regardless, she died. So hers is, in my opinion, the most tragic. So she was described as an alcoholic
00:19:58
Speaker
and a taker of various kinds of drugs. Again, I don't know how accurate that is. So when she died, her blood alcohol level was 0.91. And again, 0.4 will kill you. And she was at 0.91, which is more than twice the amount needed to kill a person.
00:20:29
Speaker
So during trials, the court would hear that Jordan poisoned her, sexually assaulted her, and left her to die, and witnessed while he was leaving the room that black fluid was oozing out of her mouth and nose. Yeah, I don't want to picture that fluid, but that sounds awful. I don't even understand how he got that.
00:20:59
Speaker
So he, it kind of does. They talk about it a little bit. So they pretty much like the police in the end kind of like barged into one multiple of the hotel rooms while these were happening and they were listening from other rooms.
00:21:21
Speaker
and let this continue to happen. So they kept recording audio of him. They were planting bugs in the room so that they could build their case. Yeah. So they took way too long to intervene in this. So the last four and the four that he started being surveilled during
00:21:50
Speaker
all occurred in one week. So yeah, so he started escalating. The last few had been occurring over the span of six years from one to the other. So over six years, six women, and then the other four he's associated with, bringing the total to 10, they believe, happened in six days. So there is,
00:22:19
Speaker
So a month after Vanessa Lee Buckner's death, another woman, Edna Shade, was found dead in another hotel, and Jordan's fingerprints were found and linked to Miss Buckner's death. So after they became aware of those two deaths, they placed him under surveillance. So at that time, they only knew about these two deaths. So
00:22:40
Speaker
The police intervened before the deaths of Rosemary Wilson on November 20th, 1987 at the Baltimore Hotel. Her blood alcohol level was at 0.52. There's Verna Chartrand, November 21st, 1987 at the Pacific Hotel. Her blood alcohol level was 0.43. Sheila Joel.
00:23:05
Speaker
On November 25th, 1987 at the Rainbow Hotel, her blood alcohol level is unknown. And Mabel Wilson on November 26th, 1987 at the Pacific Hotel, her blood alcohol level was also unknown. Yeah. Oh, I wonder what that means.
00:23:27
Speaker
That's insane. Yeah, I just feel bad that these four women, like obviously after they knew he had been associated and he was linked to the deaths of these two women. So I feel like after the first two were intervened during, they shouldn't have had to have the other two women. But thankfully, these were all intervened before these women died. So they know for sure six women he killed. So Rosemary, Verna, Sheila and Mabel, he did not kill.
00:24:01
Speaker
Okay, so how like, how many were the police watching for? That's what I got a little confused about. Like they were. So they were pretty much just following him to see what he was doing. And over the course of the week, they had to intervene four times. Wow. Yeah, he's busy. So
00:24:31
Speaker
That's fine. Thanks. Yeah, six is too many in a week, buddy. But if you think about it, it's actually quite surprising that like anything was ever necessarily done about it, because in the end, it would be very easy to write all of these off as
00:25:02
Speaker
just alcohol poisoning because that's exactly what they appear to be and that's exactly what they were. Like you wouldn't necessarily know that there was like foul play. For homicide. Except for, yeah, I guess if you were not so inclined, if there wasn't anything suspicious to make you want to test their blood alcohol level. So during the surveillance of him and the intervention of these four women,
00:25:31
Speaker
Um, there is surveillance audio recorded by police outside of the hotel and Jordan is heard saying, and I quote, have a drink down the hatch, baby 20 bucks. If you drink it right now, see if you're a real woman, finish that drink, finish that drink down the hatch, hurry right down.
00:25:50
Speaker
You need another drink. I'll give you 50 bucks. If you can take it, I'll give you 10, 20, $50, whatever you want. Come on. I want to see if you can get it all down. You get it down or you get it right down. I'll give you 50 bucks and the 13 bucks. I'll give you 50 bucks. I told you that if you finish that, I'll give you $75. Finish your drink. I'll give you $20. Yeah. How easy.
00:26:19
Speaker
I mean, he sounds gross, but at the same time, you're drunk, he's offering money. It's like, it's easy money. Like, here, take that shot. I'll give you 10 bucks. Like, okay. And I have to keep into fact that these women, almost all of them were alcoholic. So somebody paying you to drink, like, as an alcoholic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he knew where to get them.
00:26:48
Speaker
So in court, when he was asked to give a statement, what he did say is that all these women were on their last legs, and that he didn't give a damn who he was with, and that we're all dying sooner or later. So he had no remorse or anything for killing these women. Yes.
00:27:15
Speaker
So Jordan was charged with manslaughter for the death of Vanessa Buckner. He was not charged with a single other death, which I find horrible. Like, so sorry, two deaths total? No, he's known to have killed eight women. What was like, sorry, he was charged or convicted with how many?
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, he was only ever charged with one murder. He was charged with some of his other things like the vehicle thefts and stuff from his criminal past, but nothing else for these murders, only ever one. That's pathetic. They knew about. And they intervened on four of them. So you could have had attempted four times.
00:28:15
Speaker
Well, yeah, exactly. That doesn't make like a sense. So during the court proceedings, Jordan was examined by a Dr. Tiber Berzerndi. And he was described as having antisocial personality and a person whose conduct was maladjusted in terms of social behavior with a disregard for the rights of others, which often results in unlawful activities.
00:28:45
Speaker
He was also described as being very manipulative during the court proceedings. Yeah. So with the money that he inherited from the death of that family member, he was able to invest that into the stock market. And actually his investment ended up paying off so that he accumulated him even more money, which enabled him to... Sorry.
00:29:15
Speaker
pay for his lawyer and the hotel rooms he was constantly paying for. Like I said, six or four, four of them in six days. Like, yeah. Right. No, I was just gonna say I dropped my phone. Sorry. I didn't know if you heard it. I screamed.
00:29:40
Speaker
That's, oh. Yeah. So as well as paying these prostitutes for sex or to binge drink with him, that's also where he got the money for that. And according to his statement in court, he claims that he had approximately sex with approximately 200 women a year. So he's just a gross man. And he had to pay people to drink with him and keep him company.
00:30:07
Speaker
And he kept the company solely of other alcoholics as sober people, wouldn't go out with him and wanted nothing to do with him. So his first victim was later revealed to have happened.
00:30:25
Speaker
at least a decade before the others. So in 1965, Ivy Rose or Doreen was found in a Vancouver hotel room with a blood alcohol level of 0.51. He was not charged with this death or attached to it originally during the court proceedings, but it was later revealed that that was the first victim.
00:30:52
Speaker
Jordan filed an appeal and was released from prison in 1994. So he actually pretty much served hardly anything for these. So he was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 1988. He filed an appeal and it was later reduced to nine years. He filed another appeal and he was released in 1994. So he served six years.
00:31:22
Speaker
So one year for each of the deaths. Yeah, that seems fair hey. So I'm just gonna go right cry. So the reason he was able to file his appeal and be released from prison in 1994 is that a crown cited that he was not told specifically that it was illegal to pour alcohol down a woman's throat.
00:31:53
Speaker
and that he should not remain in prison. Cause he didn't know that was illegal. Well, his own lawyer. I mean, don't even, don't even answer that. So after serving six years, he was released on probation, which restricted him to Vancouver Island. He was later really, uh, arrested multiple
Post-Release Life and Legacy of Jordan
00:32:18
Speaker
times for violating probation orders to stay on Vancouver Island.
00:32:26
Speaker
They don't want him. You're trying to shiv him away. And he just keeps coming back. So he did make another. We actually put him. Yeah, put him wherever they filmed alone on Vancouver Island, like where there's nobody around. And it's breezy on a winter. Just make his own island. Yeah. Yeah. They say a man is not an island, but you should. He should be an island.
00:32:57
Speaker
In 2000, he attempted to change his name again. So he had already changed it after the first one, which was the 1965 Ivy Rose. So that's when he changed his name.
00:33:12
Speaker
on the first time. Yeah. So he attempted to change his name again in the year 2000 to Paul Pierce, but was unable to after he submitted his application and BC authorities were notified of this application and they closed a loophole and began to require a criminal background check before you could change your name. Once he became aware of this background check, he did withdraw his application to change his name.
00:33:44
Speaker
Okay, so he's still known. Yeah, Gilbert Paul Jordan. So in 2002, he was arrested for another breach of probation after being found drinking in the presence of a woman while in possession of alcohol. So that was one of his requirements of probation. So he was sentenced to 15 months in jail and three years probation and strict conditions.
00:34:09
Speaker
Two years later, he was arrested again for violating his probation after being found in a hotel in Saskatchewan drinking with a long-term resident to the hotel and alcoholic who was later taken to hospital by a friend and employee, hotel employee after finding her because she was quite unconscious. He was later acquitted of the charges during this 2004 arrest. He was acquitted in 2005
00:34:38
Speaker
And upon release to the public, a warning was released. So the warning read, Jordan Gilbert, Paul, age 73 is the subject of this alert. Jordan is 175 centimeters or five foot nine tall and weighs 79 kilograms or 174 pounds. He is partially bald with gray hair and a gray to goatee. He has blue eyes and wears glasses. Jordan is currently in the Victoria area, but has no fixed address.
00:35:07
Speaker
Jordan has a significant criminal record, including manslaughter and indecent assault of a female. He uses alcohol to lure his victims. Jordan's target victim group is adult females. Jordan is subject to court ordered conditions, including abstain from the consumption of alcohol, not to be in the company of any female persons of any place where alcohol is either being consumed or possessed by that person and
00:35:34
Speaker
All I have really after that is that he died in 2006 at the age of 74. So after this arrest in acquittal in 2005, we don't really know what happens between 2005 and 2006, but dude was 74 when he died. Right? So that's my case. That's Gilbert P. Jordan, AKA the Boozing Barber.
00:36:00
Speaker
the first Canadian to use alcohol as a murder weapon and the first person in the world to be put on trial for death by alcohol consumption. It's so gross. Just like the image of him paying these women to have sex with him and then paying them to drink until they passed out and then
00:36:30
Speaker
pouring more alcohol down their throats, which killed them, and then raping them pretty much as they died by alcohol poisoning. But was it always his motive? It seemed like he just got off on the killing them in that way too, which is just... I think there's... We'll think about it if he did state that he in his mind had sex with about 200 women a year. So if he's doing this,
00:36:59
Speaker
on a virtually almost daily basis and for sure every second day for approximately what he, his first victim was in 1965, but the first deaths that they figured out later started in 1980. So that's 15 years he was possibly doing this before they ever really knew
00:37:29
Speaker
So there could be many, many more. Or these could be just the one-offs that it happened to that had this happened to them that they died as a result. Because there could be many, many more that this exact thing happened to them. They just didn't die. And it wasn't reported because they were alcoholics, prostitutes, and indigenous women in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:58
Speaker
just lucky to be alive at that point, poor things. Yeah, I had never heard of him either. Remember what it's called? No, it's the monster of... It's okay, it's in New Brunswick town. It's the monster of the mirror machine.
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah, I almost said Monster of Mitsubishi. Oh, that has a similar brain. Yeah, like the Monster of Mitsubishi cars. Oh, speaking of the Monster of Miramichi, everyone else that is like hasn't been there kind of thing seems to pronounce it like
00:38:48
Speaker
I don't know, sometimes like they're the monster of Miramashi, the monster of Miramichi, like it, it looks like it could be, it's spelled in that it could be pronounced any number of different ways almost, but it's in New Brunswick. So I'm like, yeah, it's Miramichi. I think it's probably, uh, uh, you know, like a native name, like the, we, we get the Mac and the map down there. Yeah. So.
00:39:19
Speaker
Uh, the monster of Miramichi. Alan Joseph Legere was born on Friday the 13th of February, 1948 in Chatham, New Brunswick, a small town along the Miramichi River. Friday the 13th? That's never good. Just to set the tone.
00:39:42
Speaker
He was raised by his mother and his biological father Leonard Como was kind of a, you know, a deadbeat dad. He wasn't really in the picture. He left when Alan was very young. So they were kind of poor, probably as a consequence. And, you know, as a consequence to that, he was teased and bullied a bit. But other than that, like he didn't really have a bad childhood, in my opinion, to be honest, like,
00:40:10
Speaker
your parents are divorced. Okay, like, you know, you don't have the best toys, like, whatever. Yeah, my, my guy, he's like, alcoholism was tied back to his parents being divorced, which I yeah, it's just, I don't know. Not all divorced children. What does that they say? Not all men, not all divorced children. But
00:40:40
Speaker
As I heard on another podcast, I was listening to another Canadian true crime podcast called Dark Poutine. And they said he did share a room. Yeah, I listened to their podcast. It was really good. They did have some details on it that I was like, wow, I liked listening to other podcasts to get details too because articles only have so much. Yeah.
00:41:08
Speaker
And they said he shared a room with his sisters and he would actually like jerk off or masturbate while he was in the room or looking at them, which is not super gross. Yeah, not something I wish I'd heard again. Yeah, incest. Just, he's gross. Yeah.
00:41:33
Speaker
Um, so that was just like, they gave a little bit of background or it was to give a little background on his, like he has a child or as a teenager, but so raised or born in 1948. And then we all fast forward to June 22nd, 1986 in a town called Black River Bridge, New Brunswick. Alan Legere is 38 years old and he and his two buddies decide to get up to some shit that night.
00:42:00
Speaker
He and Podmatchit and Scott Curtis are outside of a mom-and-pop grocery store that is closed for the evening. It was owned by an elderly couple, John and Mary Glenn Denning, who are getting ready for bed. They had just closed up their shop for the night. So the trio, they cut the power to the shop and then they broke in. They were going after the safe that they knew was on the premises, but
00:42:27
Speaker
They severely beat John first and then Mary was sexually assaulted and knocked out. They hit John in the head with a rock from his own yard. They hit up the couple safe and then they fled the scene. But at this point, Mary regained consciousness and discovered John was dead from his injuries. He was so badly beaten that all his fingers were broken and he was wrapped in a cord from their own clock radio.
00:42:56
Speaker
This being that time where you have clock radios. Yeah, it's really bad. Just awful. There was like an actual boot print on his face and a shirt knotted around his neck. And he stuck like a warning. It's bad. Mary dragged herself upstairs to the phone to dial for help. Um, they had tried to cut the phone line basically.
00:43:25
Speaker
but they hadn't cut all the right cords. So she was able to dial 911 and was barely alive at this point. She hadn't recognized any of her trackers. Yeah. So the police didn't really have any leads to go on either. The cops received an anonymous tip. Free individuals had been spotted with a safe. And these men's turned out to be taught these men's
00:43:52
Speaker
These men's. These men's ease. Oh, no. These tampons. And the third man they did know the cops knew Alan Legere.
00:44:22
Speaker
Alan had been in trouble over the years, mostly like minor crimes, you know, no major felonies, but he was known to be violent. He was on their radar for sure. As you know, you are if you're kind of an asshole. Driving home tonight, I said, like, my friend Caitlin drives home with me because we work together and live in the same neighborhood. Then I was like,
00:44:49
Speaker
At first I start reading this, it's like written on the back of a Jeep or a minivan or whatever. And you're like, oh, this is like a decal that you can buy. But it says like, Jesus loves you. But I was like, oh. And then I was like, but everyone thinks you're an asshole. I was expecting that. Lovely. My mom's favorite thing ever was
00:45:19
Speaker
I can't remember where it was, if it was after my parents moved here, or if it was when my mom still lived in Manitoba, but there was a church that was near a Safeway. And if I remember correctly, there was the church sign
00:45:42
Speaker
because they were in like the same area. So the church signs had like Jesus saves you, and then Safeway signs had Safeway saves you more. And I just think of that every time I think of those signs, Jesus saves you, Safeway saves you more. Safeway saves you more.
00:46:11
Speaker
It's great. Oh, it is. It is. I love that. I don't know. Yeah, there's, there's the save on more, the, you know, buy for less. And then I don't know if it was the Simpsons or actually shopping with my mother trying to call it like the, the try and save. That might be the Simpsons. I'm not confusing it. I always used to go safely. It's safe, but it's a way.
00:46:38
Speaker
I don't know why. It was just like it's it's safe, but it's away from home. So it's safe away. They can't be a little pricey. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We only shop here before the superstore opened in in my town.
00:46:58
Speaker
We sound like little babushkas, but like, damn, the superstar, the super store is not a, a little farmer's market either. Like it is always busy. Holy shit. No, it's like if you went into Walmart, but Walmart actually had good produce and a good meat department. That's what superstore is. Like you couldn't eat a grocery shop at Walmart. Like you couldn't eat a grocery shop at Walmart. It's, it's shit. It's terrible. Like.
00:47:29
Speaker
You know, even though they do, they are trying to be a superstore quote unquote right now with all the produce and yeah, all the, the only ones that actually have like a good selection are the super center, like Walmart's here. I remember buying some hamburger and then my mom was here visiting and then it's like, where did you get that hamburger cooked up weird? And I was like, well, that's,
00:47:56
Speaker
We got that at the Walmart. Oh, yeah. It was like, I'm sorry. I know I went in there one time because I wanted to buy a pre-made sandwich. And I looked around every aisle because I thought, hey, like they have a deli department. They have probably like at least like a ham and cheese sandwich I can just grab and eat. And they do not have pre-made sandwiches in Walmart. No, no.
00:48:23
Speaker
No, they don't have anything fresh, I would venture to say. Yeah, it was like stupid. I can buy a dozen sugar cookies and all these muffins, but I can't buy a fucking sandwich. Right, but they're trying to call themselves a superstore, like, oh, you can buy all your groceries here. No. It's like, no. You can buy house cheap juice, and we can keep bacon wrapped in butter.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah, you can buy like household items and stuff there, but you can't do a proper, yeah, proper grocery shop. No. It's nice. There's a dollar ammo like just down the way from my local Walmart. Whoo. Yeah. I like dollar stores. Yeah. Yeah. Well, better value. Yeah. Hold on. I just dropped a headphone on the floor and I don't know where it went.
00:49:23
Speaker
It just popped out of my ear. Okay. Here we are. Oh no. We, we, we deep railed a bit. I'm branching up on Walmart. Back on track. Who is that? I watched Masked Singer. I don't know if you do. Oh my God. It started again last night. No, my parents watch all that. I don't want it. Okay. But even the beginning is fun. They start with that, um,
00:49:52
Speaker
Oh, God, I want to say it's a law and order. No, it's a blue all you. That's what they start with the beginning song. That was from. It's from. Oh, I almost said CSI Miami, but that was. That's something like that.
00:50:21
Speaker
Anyway, it totally fits, right? Because they're always guessing people. Yeah. With the math. That's a good show. I know. OK, we're going to get through this.
00:50:32
Speaker
They were called in about Todd Hatchett, Scott Curtis, and Alan Legere. Alan had been in trouble over the years, mostly minor crimes, but he was known to be pretty violent. They arrested the men and asked Alan to provide a DNA sample, which he attempted to refuse, but the cops were like, no, you have to. So they cut samples from his head and his beard hair. It was a match the DNA found at the scene of the Glen Dannings Market.
00:51:03
Speaker
So the two other three were left in a holding cell together and they were both making all sorts of incriminating remarks to each other that confirmed they were involved. Kind of thing in like canaries. Yeah. But I mean, justice system not always smooth. So I would say needless to say they were all three convicted, but it, you know, at least they were all convicted. Yeah, for sure.
00:51:34
Speaker
No, but it was funny because how they were like, no, we don't know how we came across this like stolen goods or money from a safe like someone gave it to us, we swear. Yeah, don't know nothing. They just tried to plead really dumb. Um, Alan was eventually sentenced to life with the possibility of parole in 18 years.
00:52:02
Speaker
or without the possibility of parole for 18 years. Scott Curtis and Todd Matchett both pled guilty and were given life without the possibility of parole for 16 years. They were both in their late teens at the time, and Alan was quite a bit older, like in his 30s, so he was considered the ringleader. He did get a little bit of a longer sentence, but only slightly. Yeah, exactly.
00:52:29
Speaker
He was brought to the maximum security penitentiary in Renu, New Brunswick. According to the Canadian encyclopedia.ca, the prison administrators were not informed that during his trial for the Glen Denning murder, Legere had successfully picked open his handcuffs in a failed escape attempt, which I thought was interesting. It's like a magician. It might be pertinent information to note.
00:52:58
Speaker
Mr. Alan Legere Houdini. Yeah. Put him in a straight jacket. It's good to know what you've got on your hands, I would say. Yeah. However, he was just kept in a segregation unit.
00:53:15
Speaker
He was friendly with his guards. There was a warden, Don Wheaton, and he was later quoted to have said he had sort of a jackal and Hyde personality. So like, I guess he could be nice when he wanted to. Yeah, my guy was described the same way by his family. Really? Yeah, saying he had a jackal and Hyde personality like he could flip and everything. It's
00:53:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of almost the scariest because you're like, could anyone I know just gonna be able to flip at any time? Yeah, maybe. Not cool. Just watch out for that.
00:54:00
Speaker
So back to Al and Legere, he thought the cops were out to get him, but he also thought they were stupid. He didn't deserve to be in jail. They were suckers, you know, the whole classic shebang. Yeah. So everybody's not but mine. Oh, exactly. No, I couldn't possibly be an asshole. I couldn't possibly have murdered those people. Yeah, I know. Some people are just weirdly like, it's like Ed Kemper.
00:54:28
Speaker
I was listening to, um, strange brew today, which is another Canadian podcast. I was telling you about, uh, talking about Kevin and they had a little clip of him and I don't know. They didn't mention like, you know, we watched him on that, the show with my, my favorite.
00:54:48
Speaker
absolutely portrayed by I believe it's Cameron Britton, the actor, but he is also in the Umbrella Academy. He's a fantastic actor. Okay, that's how they noted him on like IMDb or whatever it was. But yeah, seeing that I was like, what you should be talking about Mine Hunters or
00:55:10
Speaker
And they mentioned Mind Hunters, but maybe not Manhunter, because he was also in that show, which was hella good too. And he was a good guy, preventing a bomb attack, just to be on the opposite side. Oh, he's so good. Yeah, he's just starting his career too. I'm looking forward to seeing him in more things. He's good at doing the character.
00:55:38
Speaker
Well, no, and he's like, like I say, he's going to be a young guy. Uh, I think he's in like his mid to late thirties. He used to teach like special needs students. That's adorable. Um, where did I derail on that one? He thought the guards were suckers. Yeah.
00:56:11
Speaker
So, sorry, Al Legere wanted to trick people. He would appear to have these ear infections, but he was causing them himself by poking himself in the ear with sharp, sharp objects. That sounds really painful. He was committed, I'm telling you.
00:56:34
Speaker
They would take him for treatment to various hospitals and out clinics, you know, where they could, like, cause they couldn't deal with it in a hospital at the prison. And they took them somewhere, like, yeah, to the Moncton hospital in the winter of 1988. There was no incident. He was on his best behavior. You know, they fixed him up, he came back. Okay.
00:56:58
Speaker
But by May 3rd, 1989, he had another appointment scheduled with a specialist at the Moncton Hospital. The two guards took him, Bob Haslett and Robert Winters, and they came to pick him up around 7.30 in the morning on his cell. He was in the bathroom. They had to kind of wait. There was like an intercom system, I think.
00:57:21
Speaker
And he came out, but then was like, oh no, I forgot my pen and I need to do my crossword. So we had to go back to his cell. Cause you know, I mean, I would need my book if I was having to go wait in the doctor's office. I don't know. Can't just sit there and be alone with your thoughts. No. How dare we not be continuously entertained.
00:57:52
Speaker
Oh, always, always. And people would be like, you are reading a big ass book everywhere I see you, even when I'm still smoke cigarettes and I'd be like outside in the rain, like reading a big book. I'm like, yeah. And, and then you're like, you're into something like TikTok and it entertains you five seconds at a time. And that's a whole other dangerous endeavor. I don't like the shortness of those.
00:58:22
Speaker
I never did that. I don't do TikTok. I never did Vine. It's... Oh, I heard about Vine after it happened. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm getting clued into things. I feel like an older generation when I have a younger child. Makes me feel like an old fart. All right. May 3rd.
00:58:51
Speaker
1989. I don't really remember this. I do remember the name though. Let me tell you, growing up, I heard the name Al Legere and it's like, okay, I've heard that name. You know what I mean? Like you're like the same way you heard like OJ Simpson or something. Yeah. Like a local story. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so he had this appointment scheduled with the specialist because of his ear infections. So this was at the Moncton hospital.
00:59:21
Speaker
uh his two guards took him he was in the bathroom because he said he had to pee once he got there he has his crossword pen you know he's all set to go yeah or sorry yeah they got him out of the bathroom yes guy he's always in the bathroom um they didn't search him with a metal detector but they kind of patted him down as he came back out of his cell after he had his little bathroom break
00:59:48
Speaker
he had on his person exactly a ballpoint pen and two cigars in their little individual plastic cases. Um, these guards seemed to know that Alan Legere didn't smoke or they probably wouldn't thought that was kind of odd. Yeah. They cuff him in his leg shaft shackles in his handcuffs and the two guards and a driver named Doug Sweeney, Swayze rather, took him for the hour and 45 minute drive to the Moncie hospital.
01:00:18
Speaker
Doug Sweezy, the driver, stayed in the car while the other three went into the building when they got there. No one else noticed that one of the cigars wrappers lay on the floor because he had two cigars in his pocket. Oh, this guy, I mean, has a bladder problem because once he gets into the hospital, he has to use the bathroom again.
01:00:45
Speaker
Yes, it was an hour and a half later. I mean, to be honest, I'd probably have to pee. If I'd had a drink in the car, having had some drunken road trips to Moncton myself. Yeah. But Winters, one of the guards took him to the bathroom, the other guy went to check him in with the paperwork at the front desk kind of thing.
01:01:10
Speaker
After a few minutes, Alan Legere yells out to Winters like, can I get some more toilet paper? So Winters goes off to reception to find some. Seconds later, Legere sprints off, like he takes off out of the bathroom. He's no longer shackled and he's running straight for the door. Winters far behind, but he's on his heels. But they were not suspecting this. Like he just kind of came out of nowhere. They didn't think he could get it.
01:01:38
Speaker
out of his shackles for one thing. He's yelling for winter not to follow him and he's got some sort of makeshift knife or jagged piece of metal in his hands from what winters can see. It turns out to be an actual fact, a piece of the TV antenna from Legere's room that he had broken off and stuffed up his butt. Would have been an uncomfortable hour and a half car ride.
01:02:09
Speaker
And if you get bad reception, well then you're fucked. He has hidden a piece also in the other cigar packet, I think that didn't end up on the floor. Outside, the driver, Doug Sweezy, sees Alan getting away and tries to give chafe, but Alan brandishes his weapon and takes a swipe at Doug and gets away from him.
01:02:37
Speaker
He then flags down or cost a lady in her car trying to get out of the hospital parking lot and he basically carjacks her. But she's still in the car driving and this woman Peggy Olive, she was eventually released unharmed. That's good. He had said to her, do as I tell you, and you won't be harmed. Yeah, I mean,
01:03:00
Speaker
We'll see. I wouldn't say that he's completely a decent person though. Oh, not at all. But at least that was. So he let this, he let her go. He carjacked her, got a car, get it, get out of the hospital, let her go. He's got the car. He's on the lam. A series of robberies, car theft, assault, you know, all fall after this. Yeah. But
01:03:28
Speaker
He wouldn't be caught for another 201 days in the Miramichi region. So there was error everywhere. Yeah, that's a long time. It's so long. COVID long. COVID's longer now, officially, as of yesterday. Thanks. So long. What to do? No. Your startup podcast.
01:03:58
Speaker
A pandemic podcast, baby. Yeah. Exactly. 25 days after he escaped on the 28th of May, police were called to the home of Annie Flamm in the town of Tatum. This was Legere's hometown, actually. It's now a neighborhood in the town of Mary Machine. So Annie Flamm, 75 years old, and her sister
01:04:26
Speaker
In-law, sorry, 61 owned a local grocery store. Smoke was noticed at their residence at around 3 a.m. by an off-duty firefighter, I believe. When the police arrived, the entire upper portion of the house was already on fire. Nina was found semi-conscious at the foot of the stairwell, and Annie was eventually found in her bedroom. She was unfortunately dead from it.
01:04:55
Speaker
for injuries. They had both been beaten and raped. It's terrible. Nina. So terrible. She was able to talk to police though. Excuse me. And Nina said, a man claiming to be named Gerald demanded $3,000. And if she had complied, he said he wouldn't hurt her. This didn't really turn out to be true.
01:05:20
Speaker
He asked her about a safe, which she insisted she didn't have and he attacked and raped her anyway. He was also badly burned when they found her and Annie's body was found in her bed with a broken jaw among her other injuries. That was Nina's sister. And so he's just basically on a rampage. Um,
01:05:44
Speaker
There were a lot of good sources that I had listened to. And I remember a man mentioned Dark Poutine or Dark Poutine. They had pointed out that ironically, this day that this happened was when his original appeal for the Glenn Dennings murder was actually scheduled. But he wasn't there yet. As he was on the limb. Oh, he's not. Yeah.
01:06:13
Speaker
Oh, like they tried this new angle, right? There was a surviving victim, Nina Flamm. They had played her tapes of some men's voices, including Alan's, but she was unable to confirm the perpetrator's voice. Some cops thought it might not be LeGere, but most of them were convinced it actually still was him. Yeah, it seems pretty similar. There wasn't a lot. Yeah.
01:06:42
Speaker
Exactly. Everyone was like, the MO is like exactly the same thing, right? Thank you. And yeah, and just not something they were used to at all. It's like a quiet, you know what I mean? Kind of reason. The fire investigation team that came out, they determined the fire was set basically to cover the crime.
01:07:09
Speaker
they were able to retrieve DNA samples in the form of hair and semen. But at this time, however, DNA testing was still quite new to criminal investigations. And the first Canadian testing facility was not actually open at this time. At this point, the RCMP took over and noticed the similarities between the cases that they had been investigating. Like you said, like they're like grocery store asking you to save, rape, beaten.
01:07:42
Speaker
Yeah, Sherlock would be all over that. So yeah, he was still the prime suspect, obviously. On June 2, a pair of glasses that were identical to the ones Leger had been known to been wearing when he had escaped were found by a contractor in Chatham on like a landscaping property. Or sorry, they were found a site he was landscaping, not far from a home where a burglar had recently been chased away. So
01:08:11
Speaker
He wasn't laying completely low. He was being noticed a little bit, I would say. It's not identified. Crime stoppers, which most Canadians were familiar with, it's just like, they're gonna offer a reward if you have any information, right? So they offered a reward of $2,000 for any tips leading to his arrest, basically.
01:08:37
Speaker
So tips were pouring in, but we're kind of all over the place. People claim to have seen him in Fredericton, New Brunswick, or even as far away as Toronto, Ontario. So sometimes it kind of almost like hinders the case as much as that's it.
01:08:55
Speaker
I was listening. There was something on Netflix. What is it? The Innocent Project, I think it is. They have a series that's pretty interesting. And one of the things they talked about was the fact that when police release information asking for the public's help, or if you've seen this person,
01:09:19
Speaker
Once you've seen that picture, your mind actually pretty much invents similarities between other people you've seen and that person. And it more often than not leads to hundreds or if not thousands of false sightings. Whereas if they didn't say anything, they could have possible leads. More often than not, it actually hinders an investigation.
01:09:50
Speaker
Like it's not the witnesses fault I know I remember just watching brain games and
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, they do that thing where they like show will playing basketball and they're like, tell them how many times someone passes the ball. And then afterwards, they're like, they literally saw this in brain games. I don't know if it's somewhere else. And they're like, Did you see the gorilla? And you're like, what gorilla if you weren't paying attention, and then otherwise, if you maybe seen it before or something, you're like, yeah, when you're trying to count the passes, somebody like was dressed in a gorilla suit and came out. And like, just nobody else noticed that because
01:10:26
Speaker
you're framed or trying to look for another thing specifically. So you're like, basically almost putting blinders onto everything else. Like, Oh, they actually have a name for it about like what happens to the public when you like ask for help and then they start sending information. And it's like an actual known, like pretty much like mental disorder that people end up developing. It's like over helpfulness or something, but it has like an actual,
01:10:55
Speaker
name. So after the second murder of the shopkeepers, the police were highlighting Legere. They were like, okay, he's he's pretty prime suspect. Did I say how a pair of glasses that look like his were found on a landscaping site in Chatham? Does that happen? Oh, yeah, police thought he was still in the mayor machine. And
01:11:26
Speaker
September, 30th of September in Newcastle, New Brunswick, a man named Morrissey Doran, age 70, confronted an intruder in his home. He was shot in the back by this intruder, but he did survive. Surprisingly. Shot in the back. Yeah, and he was 70. Yeah.
01:11:52
Speaker
I think it was some sort of a rifle too, like a buckshot or something, which I don't know, it just wasn't great. It could have been walking away with serious injuries. Exactly. Yeah, this guy is just like bad news. He attacked another senior couple, like another senior couple in Newcastle. They were assaulted by an armed man.
01:12:18
Speaker
on October 12, or sorry, that was the next day after this guy was shot in the back, the 70 year old. That was September 30. So on October 12, they throw this year's plea deal, because he wasn't even there to hold up his appeal. He was on the lambs adding more things. On October 14. You can't try him, but we're still trying to get him. Don't worry.
01:12:48
Speaker
All right, on October 14th at 735 a.m. a volunteer firefighter in Newcastle noticed smoke was coming from a home nearby to his residence. This was the home of sisters Linda and Donna Dostney. They were 41 and 45 years old. They had lived on a dark unlit kind of corner of the street in a town called Newcastle, New Brunswick.
01:13:14
Speaker
I think I said that. Sorry. There were no street lamps on the street in this corner. So it was really dark. Alan was lying in my backyard. Linda was walking home from like meeting up with her friend for coffee, right? Kind of in the evening, but still like she'd just been out with a friend. But he was lying in her backyard. So
01:13:39
Speaker
Her friend leaves her at the beginning of Linda's street. Leger sneaks up on her from behind in the backyard, or comes up to her in the driveway, probably, sorry, and clocks her right in the face. Leger ended up ripping out Linda's earring in the attack. He was that violent, she struggled, but he horribly beat her until a blood vessel ended up rupturing in her brain. He dragged her inside, he threw her on the bed,
01:14:10
Speaker
slashed at her throat and stabbed her repeatedly. And both her jaws ended up broken. Honestly, the both of us were both so kind of brutalized, unfortunately, that I wouldn't be surprised if I got a little confused about one injuries to the other because they were both kind of horribly attacked, unfortunately.
01:14:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? You read a couple of different accounts and it's like, okay, this happened to this one, this happened to this one. It's just not good either way. And yeah, I mean, that's not the point of their lives kind of thing to me. It's just like, oh, it's bad. So Donna was also tortured and vomited and choked to death.
01:15:02
Speaker
So Legere lit a fire in the house to cover his tracks and tried to destroy the evidence. A witness was later said to have seen a man jumping up and down trying to kind of keep warm near the Dauphinie's house. They didn't notice the fire at this time that they saw the man. Legere then went back inside to light the house, war on fire. It wasn't burning enough for him.
01:15:26
Speaker
He lit like five more fires and it was actually the smoke inhalation that killed Linda. So it's so bad. Both women's bodies were recovered from the home. Like Donna was tucked kind of neatly into her bed, which was one of the more gross aspects of the entire case. I thought like just tucking him into bed. Yeah, that's weird.
01:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they're all beaten and raped too. Don't get me wrong, that sucks. But he's just like, a few different accounts I heard that I thought they heard that he had tucked a few different victims like into bed and it was just like, no. Yeah, that seems like a really weird thing to do. It is, it's kind of, I don't know, like the serial killers that are upset with their moms and
01:16:27
Speaker
do weird shit like Dr. Mom said. Ed Camper. Yeah, those who don't know Edmond Camper. Exactly. If you have a strong stomach, you can look him up. He's, in my opinion, one of the most fascinating serial killers out there. Like according to reports, he's, he's like has a genius level IQ.
01:16:55
Speaker
He's been so psychoanalyzed from such a young age that he actually, while in prison currently, assists other doctors in analyzing other patients. Like that's how smart he is. He's trusted with this. And he's also
01:17:17
Speaker
I can't believe he's still alive and he's forgetting that from the TV shows and stuff. He actually has been up for the role and recommended to be released many, many times. And every single one of those times that he's been up for release, he himself has been the one that has declined to allow himself to be released.
01:17:38
Speaker
So everybody around him keeps trying to free him. And he tells them pretty much flat out, if you release me, I'm just gonna kill again to end up back here. I want to be here. I don't want to kill anybody else. So you have to keep me here. And he's I think I was just hearing who he like, called himself in the confession. Like if he hadn't have been like,
01:18:05
Speaker
I am the killer. Yeah, I wouldn't have caught it. So is that not what happened? Yeah, he used to watch a cop procedural show. I can't remember what show it was. He was obsessed with it. He actually, when he was younger, he tried to become a cop, but they actually said that he was too tall. Um, when in reality, it most likely was that he, um,
01:18:32
Speaker
a combination of that and not being able to pass a physical test because he is on the heavier side because he just is so tall. I think he's close to like, close to like seven feet tall. Like he is extremely tall. And he weighs like 280 pounds. Could even be this.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, so he committed all these. Yeah, very tall. Yeah, very tall. He committed all these crimes and everything. And the last one that he did, he pretty much went on the run. And each city and town that he passed through, he kept looking in his rearview mirror, like waiting for somebody to be behind him.
01:19:17
Speaker
And because he had wanted to be a cop so badly, he had befriended a bunch of cops in a local bar and he used to talk about cop business. He used to find out like who they were looking into for the crimes that he had committed or if anybody had noticed.
01:19:34
Speaker
Um, so he actually knew like personally a lot of cops. So he kept thinking, okay, they're going to figure it out. It's me. They're going to figure it out. Somebody's got to figure it out. And when nobody did, he actually got frustrated that nobody was paying attention to him. Yeah. So he ended up going just on a pay phone and ended up confessing and being like, yo, like I killed these people. I'm here. Come get me. Um, because he didn't want to keep killing. He was tired of it.
01:20:03
Speaker
Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Like you can sometimes hit people over the head with a confession, but if it weren't for false confessions, then, you know, those ones would be totally cut and dry and really easy to take. But there's all like false confessions and all these different things that muddy the waters. See that interesting thing.
01:20:26
Speaker
about him is he's actually um has been interviewed many times from prison there's actually cool documentaries you can watch on youtube interviews with him he literally sits there and just describes like he's describing the plot of a movie to you they played
01:20:45
Speaker
On the podcast, I was listening to him. I was like, that sounds like him from Minehunter. I was like, the actor did a really good job. Yeah, I think it is. He pretty much like sat there and like mirroraged like the interviews that they completed with him and pretty much like got because he does speak like he's like a doctor talking about something. Like he's very analytical. He talks about something as if it didn't happen to him personally, as if he's completely detached from it.
01:21:12
Speaker
But in this he's talking about like cutting off his mom's head and like fucking her neck hole and stuff. And because his mom had been complaining that because of him, she wasn't having sex with anybody. So he murdered his mom and then cut off her head and had sex with her head. Um, and then said, okay, now you've had sex.
01:21:36
Speaker
So, and he's explaining this as if he's like sitting there telling you about a comedy movie. He's just sitting there like detached from it, like emotionless. That is insane. You're right. I've heard some of the audio clips and you're just like, Oh, you do talk about it. Like it's a movie where most of us are de-sensitized because we've seen a movie. Yeah. Like he sits there and he's
01:22:01
Speaker
He's like, yeah, if I was to analyze somebody that committed these crimes, I would tell you that they're this, this, and this. He's not telling you I'm this, this, and this. He's telling you if somebody committed these crimes, they would be this, this, and this. But he's fascinating. He loves to talk about these crimes. He doesn't do interviews anymore, but when he was getting interviewed, he got interviewed by
01:22:27
Speaker
uh the criminal justice unit of the FBI that actually coined the term serial killer um so like if you've watched vine hunters you know all this he gets interviewed in that he's actually one of the main ones that starts this whole thing about them being interviewed he also like yeah he also was in the same facility that Charles Manson was in um and when they went there before they went to interview Charles Manson they interviewed they
01:22:57
Speaker
went and stopped by to visit Edmund and asked, oh, do you know anything about Charles? We should stay away from her. And he pretty much just said, don't make fun of his height. That's all he really had to say, that he was a short dude and don't make fun of it. Oh. Oh, I've heard some creepy things about him. I can talk about him a lot. Yeah, I'm sure we'll do a whole.
01:23:29
Speaker
We'll do an episode about Edmund Kemper for sure because I could talk about him for hours. It's crazy. Right. Okay. So yeah, second set of grocery store owners that have been attacked by this year. Yes. The RCMP that came to investigate said they could see the 10 fingerprints
01:23:56
Speaker
like bloody fingerprints being dragged down the walls. You could see them sliding down the back of the door. So Vincent Poissonnier of Moncton RCMP said the place looked like it had been ransacked as if Leger was not looking for something to steal, but more to do with being mad, being upset, being totally out of control. So yeah, he thought it was kind of like a outrage at this point.
01:24:27
Speaker
Excuse me. Everyone's kind of terrified. More officers are called in after these murders, including the emergency response team from Ottawa. Yeah, people are terrified. There's never been anything like this before that they know of. And people were used to me being able to not lock their doors, not anymore. So they're just freaking out. The police and the RCMP comb the riverside up and down the mirror machine.
01:24:58
Speaker
They knew he hadn't actually gone far from where he grew up, I guess. Kind of weird. Because you'd think he could just disappear off to somewhere else. But he never chose to. He just didn't. Halloween was actually canceled that year. I think that's the first year. It was canceled for a second time because of COVID. Anything would actually make that happen.
01:25:28
Speaker
I think it was, I do think, but although they were, yeah, I went to visit my mom in the Atlantic bubble of the East Coast, Canada during the COVID and they were like pretty staunch, like pretty stringent. Well, who are you? Where are you from? Oh yeah, yeah. Stay in your house. It's like, yeah, I'm social distancing. I'm not even near you. I'm wearing a mask and whatever. I'm staying with my mom like,
01:25:56
Speaker
24-7, and they were still like, uh-huh. Like, OK. OK. So Halloween was canceled. In early fall of that year, the RCMP lab for DNA analysis finally opened in Ottawa. Legere's hair was actually tested amongst some of the first samples to be processed.
01:26:23
Speaker
It matched demon samples from both Nina Flamm and Linda Dofny. So they then at least knew he was responsible for those killings. But he still wasn't caught. So the terror reaches a tipping point when the next death occurs. People are turning naturally to their communities and kind of to their faith to carry them through this difficult time.
01:26:51
Speaker
parishioners turned to their clergy for comfort. Every Sunday, Father James Smith provides such comfort to his block. He is very much a well-loved, kind-hearted pillar of the community. He's literally a father figure to the young kids, not just a father. On November 16th, his congregation was gathered for the regular 7 p.m. Mass. But by 715, Father Smith was still nowhere to be found.
01:27:21
Speaker
They grew worried. So two parishioners went over to the nearby rectory to check on him. What they saw would haunt them for the rest of their lives. There was blood everywhere, signs of struggle. Dun dun dun. I know. I don't know how to pause. How do we do that? It's just a journey though. I don't even know why. I can't even imagine why this would happen.
01:27:52
Speaker
Uh, Father Smith's main cause he sucks. What's that? Alan Langero sucks, not the. Yeah. I know. Like there's a, quite a direct like drugs or something, but I just, I'm not even sure with this guy. Um, so they found Father Smith's body, unfortunately.
01:28:19
Speaker
lying in a bloody heap near a wall safe of his. So earlier that day, Father Smith had heard a noise in his home and he'd gone to investigate. There was a ladder up against the building of the house, so he went down to investigate and saw a door open in the rectory. As soon as he entered the rectory, Legere then attacked him. He demanded for Father Smith to show him to the safe.
01:28:45
Speaker
When Father Smith insisted there was no money, the knife came out. He slashed, punched, and kicked him as he tied the man up to a chair. He slashed his face. He untied him, strangled the priest, and ultimately the man then choked on his own body. He at one point must have jumped on Father Smith's body because he had broken ribs and boot prints on him.
01:29:15
Speaker
Just kind of not fathomable almost. It doesn't matter what religion you are, like how can you be that depraved? I don't know. At this point, Alan hung out. He snacked on some shit in the fridge. He put some bread bags on his wet feet. You know how you do when you got the wet shoes sometimes in Canada.
01:29:45
Speaker
I get it, I understood it, but I didn't like him still. He even answered the phone at one point when someone called and he answered like, wrong number. At 6 p.m., they're actually giving the press conference about the slangs in New Brunswick. At 6.45, Leger hotwires the priest's car and heads to a train station.
01:30:13
Speaker
So after he killed Father Smith, he took his car. So at 745, a VA rail agent sells a ticket to Montreal to a suspicious character who wouldn't look him in the face or the eyes. But he bought the ticket. So Panic! is kind of reaching a rafting point in New Brunswick.
01:30:36
Speaker
especially in the Marimachi region. So kids weren't allowed to play like in the streets on their, like in their yard. Everyone was just kind of like, no, you don't go to the house if you can avoid it. On, no, yeah, it's not good. On November 17th, my brother's birthday, no. 1989.
01:31:01
Speaker
at 2.25 a.m. in Riviere de Lube, Quebec, not far from the border to New Brunswick, the plainclothes officers caught up with the train to Montreal. So they boarded the train to search for Legere, so they had heard about the suspicious character buying this ticket that wouldn't look them in the eye. So, yeah, they're on the case. They have a basic description
01:31:30
Speaker
Passenger 30 matched the description rather the best. Although he didn't look to be the 200 pounds, they thought, you know, Leger was supposed to be at the time of his escape. They were also looking for a tattoo of a star and eagle head on his right forearm and an eagle on his right bicep. So they asked the passenger on the train to roll up his right sleeve and he didn't have any tattoos on them.
01:32:01
Speaker
So they let the train go. There had actually been a mistake in the description. No. They checked the wrong arm. Yeah. He was supposed to have a tattoo on his left arm that they were looking for. That's why you checked both. Exactly.
01:32:23
Speaker
It seems like a movie. A person's got two arms. If you're looking for a tattoo on an arm, check their arms, check their legs. Doesn't that seem the most prudent course of action? For me it does. Is that the guy? Oh, yeah. You're not looking for somebody that stole $5. This dude's out there raping and murdering people. Take the effort.
01:32:54
Speaker
check both arms. Oh, yeah, exactly. No, they seem to have no concept of like, define them. So they let the train go in Montreal.
01:33:15
Speaker
He used a fake name still, and he checked into the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. He later ordered new glasses because his, you know, were old or whatever, and he sold some jewelry that he had stolen like to a pawn shop. So he was doing it for a while, I think in Quebec.
01:33:41
Speaker
Uh, but one week later on November 23rd in St. John, a cab driver named Ron Bumkey noticed a man was flagging him down. The guy said like, I missed my train. I need to ride to Moncton. Rob calls dispatch to get the fare. It's going to be like a long distance thing. Sounds like it's going to be about a hundred dollars.
01:34:05
Speaker
Ron then hears the man say, tell them you have the money, you're going to Moncton, and he sticks a rifle in Rob's rib. He says, don't try anything, I'll shoot at the first sign of police. Ron contemplates crashing into a transport truck. He knows exactly who he must be dealing with. Ron must make some indication of his thought, but they eventually end up fighting for control of the wheel.
01:34:34
Speaker
Sorry, this puts them into a ditch, but they are unharmed. So Legere is then furious with
The Capture of Legere: A Dramatic Pursuit
01:34:41
Speaker
Ron. He threatens to kill Ron, but ultimately ends up flagging down another driver in an SUV. Unbeknownst to Legere, it belongs to off-duty RCMP officer, Michelle Mercer. He orders her to take them to Moncton, but they realize they will need to fuel up first. Yeah.
01:34:59
Speaker
Gotta get some, yeah. Hold on, I need some Red Bull and I need some chips, maybe some sunflower seeds. Road trip food. Oh, what about some all dressed? So yummy. They got a few up. So this top of the Irving gas station.
01:35:27
Speaker
He takes the keys out of the ignition. He pumps the gas and he heads in to actually pay for the gas, which I found astonishing. Considering he's like asking people for money and robbing people. Yeah. And then he is going to pay for gas. I mean, he's got his own set of codes. Yeah. He's, he's courteous only in the situation of going on a road trip with somebody.
01:35:57
Speaker
He is the hound. What is it the hound on Game of Thrones does? Because he like, he'll kill people, but he sure as shit won't like steal from them or something. I can't remember exactly. I don't remember either. I'll have all your chickens. No. Yeah. So, Alan Shearer goes into pay. Michelle, they
01:36:22
Speaker
RCMP officer reveals to Ron that she has a second set of keys for her SUV, for her vehicle. They decide this might be a chance, then they take off. Yeah. They're like, we're doing it. So Legere is obliged to flag down yet another vehicle if he wants to get anywhere. He's pissed. But this time, he flags down like 18 wheel moving trucks.
01:36:52
Speaker
is my understanding. So like tractor trailers, like a semi truck. Yeah. Someone said like, okay, like a moving van and then on whatever podcast I was listening to, like, no, like it's not like a van. It's like a giant, like a semi trailer. Yeah. Like he tells the next thing he does is tells the driver to ditch the tractor trailer, like get rid of the trailer, which is,
01:37:18
Speaker
Like, we're too big. Now he thinks. We'll flag down a different vehicle. We'll flag down that vehicle. Was there smart cars in 1989? Anyway. They end up down a small lane. The trucker says, oh, sorry. There was plenty of witnesses that saw the hijacking of the tractor trailer.
01:37:48
Speaker
So the police were ready to spring and this, the tractor or the truck was spotted lumbering down a two lane country road. Someone calls it in a suspicious. The RCMP was able to get on their tail, you know, slow chase ensues. Yeah, I don't know. They end up down like a small lane. The truckers like, I can't go any further. There's nothing I can do. There's no room. So Lucia is like, okay, get out, get out.
01:38:19
Speaker
So he gets out of the cab, he yells, it's him, it's Al Legere, he's got a gun. Police are on the truck, they're armed to the teeth. One had an M16, I know it's a cool gun, because Pat said it's his favorite, and he was in the army. But, you know, armed to the teeth for Canadian police, let me tell you, an allergist comes up to the truck and says, you know, he's got his hands in the air, he's saying,
01:38:49
Speaker
I'm all right, I'm okay, you got me. I'm all right, just in case you guys were wondering. Just in case you cared, you guys all pointing guns at me just in case you cared, I'm okay. He throws the gun on the ground away from him and he's apprehended with no further violence.
Legere's Trial and DNA Evidence Impact
01:39:12
Speaker
Once he's brought to trial, Allen's arguments included
01:39:15
Speaker
You guys have had a year to learn about this DNA stuff. My lawyer has not. It's not fair. This fangled DNA. It's really my fun and I don't like it. It's fangled. Yeah, it's fangled DNA. But it was a little confusing because when I first read it, I thought they said he was like the first example of a conviction.
01:39:45
Speaker
at this point, but he was he was one of the first is what I've decided from what I've read. Okay, like using DNA evidence. He was one of the first convictions in Canada. Yeah, it said that DNA in, you know, 1989 at this point had hadn't been used to convict but had been used to exonerate innocent people.
01:40:10
Speaker
But then I looked a little further because I, yeah, I was still a little confused after the various sources and, you know, read and listened to for the podcast. So I got a little bit of history, if you want it. Yeah. OttawaCitizen.com blah, blah, blah. They said the first forensic use of DNA occurred in England in 1983.
01:40:36
Speaker
when samples from a murder and sexual assault exonerated the main suspect in the case. Three years later, DNA from a second murder was taken at times and convicted a different man. In Canada, DNA was first used in 1987, so that would have been two years before the capture of Leger. Yeah, in the case of the spandex rapist, quote unquote,
01:41:05
Speaker
who had attacked seven women in Edmonton. The Spandexers? Oh, those sounds are gross. And it's in Edmonton, too. Oh my god. I don't even want to let this happen. I don't think we have to cover that. Ew. I don't want to talk exclusively about Spandex. Really, I could go really well with the, have you ever heard of the Lululemon murders? I was just going to say Spandex makes me think of Lululemon.
01:41:35
Speaker
That's fucked up too. Or you do the guy that did the Dexter killings or whatever and I mentioned, I think you reminded me about that. Oh, definitely. Yeah, that one's like, it is kind of like out of a TV show. Because yeah, he like murdered people in his garage.
01:41:57
Speaker
Yeah. He wishes he was in a TV show or a movie. And that's why he told people he was like in a movie. I'm just creating a movie. If you hear any. It's like, okay, buddy. Just making the worst movie ever. Well, I don't know anything about the spandex rapist. Let's we'll have to, I guess, save that one. Sorry. Yeah. We can cover that one. Uh, but that was the first time DNA was used in 1987.
01:42:26
Speaker
However, the sample available for testing proved too small to give a viable result or a reliable result. And the suspect was acquitted. Although it says the man was convicted 20 years later when DNA linked him to a separate sexual assault occult. A separate sexual assault cold case in Calgary
01:42:55
Speaker
I'm sorry, there was a lot of C's in the end of that sentence. Yeah. So, oh, I guess the first according to this site, the first conviction in Canada occurred in Ottawa 1989, when 32 year old Paul McNally pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a 68 year old woman or her new Edinburgh home. And they used fingerprinting genetic fingerprinting.
01:43:26
Speaker
So yeah, that was what I found out. I was like, so although Wikipedia says it's the first use of DNA profiling in Canada to lead to a conviction, it's among the first in Canada. Basically- Maybe for a conviction, because the other, you said that spandex guy was acquitted. He was. Because it wasn't enough. So that might be why. Because maybe some people were like convicted of these, but they were later acquitted.
01:43:54
Speaker
but he was the first one that was like convicted and stayed convicted. I think so, like hard convicted. Cause, yeah. Cause something about the 1989 case, 68 year old woman, I think that was maybe one of the very first in Canada. But as I noted, technically the DNA in the Allan Legere case,
01:44:21
Speaker
from New Brunswick was collected before the Ottawa case, but he was on the run for so long. Yeah. Like his trial was in 1990. And this one fiction was 89. So it was very close. Um, so yeah, obviously he was convicted 19 or sorry.
Legere's Sentencing and Parole Denial
01:44:43
Speaker
His trial was in 1990. I was convicted 1991. Life
01:44:49
Speaker
without the possibility of parole until 25 years or however you say that. In 2015, he was moved from New Brunswick to the Edmonton maximum security prison. Oh god, no, don't tell me that. Yeah, so people were scared because he got moved here and they thought he was gonna fuck us all up in Edmonton. Tell me he's dead.
01:45:16
Speaker
He is 73, like three. And he's just been denied parole again in January of 2021. He gave random answers in his parole interview. When asked if he considers himself violent or a sexual offender, he said no. A board member asked if he takes responsibility for causing the deaths of the four victims slain when he was a fugitive. I was present, but I wasn't the only one, he said. I was found guilty, but they don't have it right.
01:45:46
Speaker
He blames an accomplice. Sure. An accomplice like fellow road tripper that followed you through to Montreal. The devil on his shoulder. An addendum to that article about his parole hearing here just recently. When asked about his sexual violence tendencies, Legere said female prison employees aren't afraid of him. I'm not like that, he said.
01:46:15
Speaker
Agar said that contrary to what Leger was saying, there have been issues with female staff, including his fixation on some staff to whom he sent poetry and hand-making. It seems you do have to, she said. And that's my case. I love it. So the next, I'm very excited for too, because we're gonna go ahead with our next one.
Teaser for Next Episode: Cursed Objects
01:46:43
Speaker
Our episode is going to be about cursed objects. Yeah. So like we said before, we're going back and forth. So true crimes every second episode. True crime. We do love our true crime and we love our mysterious, supernatural and paranormal. And we're also working on our Patreon. We'll let you know if there's an actual date or anything like that.
01:47:09
Speaker
Yeah, we have a placeholder worth thinking about putting up a poll maybe to see what kind of content people are interested in So that we can figure out what we want to do for that. Yeah, we want to do what you guys want to see Yeah, so let us know I'm excited for your cursed. Oh, but yeah
01:47:42
Speaker
All right, till next time. Bye bye.