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Veganuary 2026: Carlos' Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
88 Plays18 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from the brilliant, regular Falafeller, Carlos!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 29 directly https://zencastr.com/z/_XIBkTfa
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Carlos & Ant
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Falafel Collective
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions.
Special Episodes for Veganuary 2026
00:00:17
Speaker
And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those. So it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors. We really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026.
Carlos' Journey to Vegetarianism
00:00:54
Speaker
Carlos, thank you so much for your time. i'm really, really grateful that you you've given us your time to to come on the Going Vegan show today. And we don't know each other at all. So this is this is going to be fascinating to glean an insight into your vegan journey. Let's go back as far as you want to go then.
00:01:11
Speaker
What's the first sign that that you can detect that you might have been interested in veganism or animal rights or abstaining from using animal products, what's the very first sign that that was maybe part of your life or or might be one day?
00:01:28
Speaker
Well, i'm i'm I'm fully vegan now and I've been fully vegan for ah over 10 years by now, but I was a vegetarian first. And um I would say that the reason, i mean, it was always like on the back of my mind that I was doing something wrong.
00:01:46
Speaker
but it seemed completely impossible. We're talking in the 2000s, by the way. It seemed completely impossible going vegan or even vegetarian at the time because there was so little choice and so little options. And it just felt kind of an insurmountable obstacle to do it, um which I now recognize as being very lazy and very, ah you know, not not engaged enough with my principles and values. But at the time, it that's what it felt. And, you know,
00:02:13
Speaker
I can only apologize by continuing to be vegan. Anyway, I was working for ah for one of the big tech companies in London, and um they had free food in-house. In fact, they're famous for that, this company. And um they always had a vegan, sorry, a ve a vegetarian option that was always there.
00:02:34
Speaker
So this was free. you know You went to the cafeteria, you picked you or lunch. There were always vegetarian options. And I started out of curiosity eating the vegetarian option. It got to a point you know where it was basically, okay, I only eat vegetarian while at work.
00:02:50
Speaker
When I go home, I mostly eat vegetarian. I might as well just go vegetarian, full stop. And I did that on the 1st of January, 2010. So this was we ah before Veganuary, but it was sort of a New Year's resolution. No, I mean, it it was completely New Year's resolution.
00:03:09
Speaker
All my peers, you know, doubted that I was going to stick with it. But, you know, here we are, I guess. And and then I kind escalated that by going, you know, by becoming a vegan.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Can I ask then, Carlos, because this this is fascinating, because there's a lot of parallels there with with my own journey in terms of coming to vegetarianism. Slight difference in that i i it was when I went to university and I was really grossed out by the meat options. So I started lying and saying I was vegetarian at the cafeteria. But that yeah, it it kind of started in that that one location. What was it that was drawing you to to do that? was it Was it ethics or just the ah what the food looked like? Or what what made you choose the vegetarian option at work? I think it was curiosity.
00:03:56
Speaker
But I think I had become a vegetarian and a vegan person. way before I actually ah started acting on it. I think my mind had made up that that ah decision.
00:04:10
Speaker
It's just that it took my actual actions to catch up to what what I had decided already. And then it would have been animal ethics for sure. Yeah. and And so is it kind of like the the practicalities had to catch up or had to be in place for for those those morals to be translated into actions? Is that that's what I'm hearing?
00:04:30
Speaker
Yes, and also um a sort of laziness of changing my ways in the same way that, I don't know, if somebody is giving up smoking, they might really want to give up smoking, but they just have, for example, ah this habit of when they're getting stressed at work, they step outside to smoke a cigarette, right? Yeah, yeah. and and then you know this kind of Removing this function or this habit from their lives is is is perhaps much harder than stopping smoking. and And in my case, it was, I had all this, you know, all the recipes I knew used meat or or dairy or eggs and And, you know, kind of all the the restaurants I knew and recommended and all the dishes I like, you know all kind of the every I had built my ah say diet completely around being an omnivore.
00:05:21
Speaker
It was just kind of laziness, a mix of laziness and and fear of change, which a lot of people have, I guess. And I certainly used to have a lot of it. You're you're being very reflective and also you know very self-critical, which I i think is good to do sometimes, isn't it? But, you know, judgment-free place here, Carlos. I think I'm going to jump the gun here a bit, but ah i actually do ah vegan outreach in the streets of, in the streets, in the filthy streets of London. No, they're they're actually quite clean. um And there are a lots of vegan options on those on those streets of London, actually. No, I do outreach. So I'm used to hearing people make arguments for not going vegan. that that Before I could engage with those people, you know, kind of real life people there telling me they will never go vegan, I had to do a lot of self-reflection so I could fight those arguments in myself. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
So that's, I think, where the self-reflection comes from. Yeah, well, very very sensible thing to do too. So let's pick the journey back up then. So as far as I've understood it, 1st of January 2010, New Year's resolution is not just to be vegetarian at work, but to try and translate that to to all areas of your life. I've got that correct so far, yeah?
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, I should also say that I'm a very extreme person when it comes to resolutions. so So in my head, there was no trying. It was, I'm a vegetarian, that's it. I'll be a vegetarian until I die. And if I'm not, I'll be i'll beat myself up every day until I go back to being a vegetarian. So i that's a bit how kind of how i my brain works. yeah And so when I became a vegetarian, that was it. but Maybe that's why i took it took so long, because I knew...
00:07:01
Speaker
Once I had taken that step, i could never I would never allow myself to break it. Yeah, just and true I understand. So to come on, we we shouldn't get too sidetracked, but give us give us some give us a few more resolutions that you've made that you've you've ah been really ardent and steadfast at. Well, I've i've gone teetotal this year.
00:07:20
Speaker
oh wow. Great. Yeah. So I was already pretty much not drinking barely anything, really. So I just said, ah just ah just just just you know sign sign it just sign it. Just sign your name in the teetotal list and be done just be done with it. Just stop pretending that you you you should you drink sometimes because you don't. Yeah.
00:07:41
Speaker
Wow. but But it's hard when you when you make resolutions like this. It's hard to make them because then you I knew on that first day of 2010, I knew that was it. You know, I would not. I mean, and and I can you look, I was um I was a meat eater for what, 33 years, 33, 33 years. yeah Yeah. So that means, um you know, I had accumulated a a lot of good memories of non-vegetarian, non-vegan food. and And then to make that call just to go, okay, I will never have like my beloved X, Y, Z yeah dishes. Yeah.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. So come on then. Let's pick up the journey from, from there to deciding that veganism was something that yeah would be part of your life. How did
Transition to Veganism Influences
00:08:28
Speaker
that go? Yeah, so around that time, i adopted the dog from ah from a rescue. So you can see that kind of this idea about animal rights and doing kind of the right thing with animals was already kind of taken hold in several aspects of my life. yeah And um so I adopted this dog from a rescue. And I had had a dog before.
00:08:50
Speaker
But I never had the kind of relationship with a dog that I've had with this dog in particular, who um who was pretty much like ah a human human child in a dog suit. So they were there were you know we had like ah a tremendous bond. And um at the time, you know because i I was working and coming to London to work, et cetera, so I needed to get a dog walker.
00:09:13
Speaker
and And this dog, Walker, happened to be a vegan. And she has she's one of those lucky people who've been a vegan since they were ah teenagers. Oh, wow. So she was pretty much ah a hardcore vegan. I mean, I shouldn't say hardcore vegan because then I'm a hardcore vegan too. and are Aren't we all vegans? Hardcore in a way. I mean, as seen from outside. Yeah. Yeah. Quite extreme. And um so, yeah, so she was a hardcore vegan. And and she knew was I was a vegetarian.
00:09:42
Speaker
And every time she talked to me, she kept pushing this vegan idea. She was really annoying. and um But i i I knew she was right, right? I knew i knew ultimately least she was right. and um And she kept stressing this idea that there was nothing different about the animals I was, um in this case, exploiting, in in this case, for as part of the dairy industry, as part of the egg industry. There was not no difference in their capacity for suffering for those animals compared to this dog I loved so much, which I had totally made part of my family and which I consider to be like a a human in some ways. Did she pick you out as somebody that's like receptive to the message or was she doing that to all her clients? Yeah.
00:10:30
Speaker
I think she picked me out because I was already vegetarian and, and you know, she kept sending me vegan propaganda. And like I kept kind of, I did watch things which I, these days I would not watch again unless I have to. Yeah. um But... After a while, there
00:10:50
Speaker
there was so much pressure and and and then the floodgates just opened and then it was, okay, now I'm a vegan, now I'm an activist, you know and i'm now I'm the annoying vegan. Yeah. Yeah, I should say, like, when I when i became a vegetarian, i I didn't have any single family member or acquaintance who were vegetarians, for example. So that made it harder, I think.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yes. um yeah And later, when I became a vegan, she was the only vegan I knew. Yes. Which made it easier in that sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. so when you're deciding to become vegan, is that just a one day you're saying, right, today's the day then or something that you're thinking, okay, I think this might be something I need to do. I'm going to need to build up to this. How did that happen?
00:11:37
Speaker
I think, ah well, vegetarianism was a New Year's Day resolution. And as I told you, I've i've got a very kind of determined, let's call it determined personality, where if I decide I'm going to do something, I do it. And now But with veganism, it was more, I started avoiding dairy. I started buying plant-based milks. I started avoiding buying leather leather items or other kind of obvious animal product items.
00:12:06
Speaker
And then one day I just said, ah i'm I'm a vegan now. yeah you have been vegan I've been a vegan for a few months and I didn't even kind of made that resolution. It was just kind of, I just went, okay, let's face it. You know, you're a vegan now.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You just look in the mirror one day and that's it. Yeah. You yeah you wake up in the morning and you're one of them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. so So does that, in a sense, mean that there's more time to a to adjust to it? And there's kind of less trepidation and less fear than if you're kind of saying, right, I'm going to do it on this day, then you've kind of got time to build up fear and worries about some of the negatives? Or or did you still have those those concerns about what it might be like, or things that could go wrong, or what people might say? I think by the time i recognized myself as being a vegan, i had already left all those fears behind. i was ready.
00:13:02
Speaker
i was ready. I mean, i I know there's a lot of, look, I want to spread the vegan message as far and wide as possible. And I told you I do vegan outreach. so I'm trying to multiply the number of vegans in the world.
00:13:15
Speaker
But at the same time, i have no illusions. It's much easier not being a vegan in a life. life I mean, if if your consciousness can consciousness can can support it, of course. Yeah. um because Because right now it would be impossible. I mean, it would be terrible for me and very costly in mental terms and psychological terms to not be vegan. Yes. But if if if if someone has no qualms about not being a vegan, then life is definitely much easier.
00:13:44
Speaker
So I have no illusions about that. But um yeah, ah in my mind, there was no turning back. but then yeah can of Can I ask, you you you said by the time you went vegan, like those those fears and and worries um ah had more or less gone. What were those worries? I mean, you've spoken there about practicalities. Were there other concerns or or things that you had a bit of trepidation about?
00:14:10
Speaker
Well, at the time I i was with a partner and um she jumped from being an omnivore to being a vegan straight away. wow And i um I had some reservations if she could ah if she could make that jump because she was definitely far more fond of some animal products than I ever was.
00:14:31
Speaker
yeah uh eventually she did go back to being uh what's it called pescatarian yeah which uh to me is kind of ah a bit of a nonsense term but anyway yeah uh and a non-vegan to me just just vegans and non-vegans and uh yeah Yeah, so she she did go back because I don't think she ah had the the right kind of motivation to go vegan. So one of my fears at the time was that she was going to go vegan and then that would make our household a vegan household where we make our all of our purchases and where we spend our money and the decisions we make related to veganism and and to kind of that those ethics.
00:15:07
Speaker
And then I was afraid, I was i was ah actually was afraid she would go back and then that would be a huge disruptor in our relationship as well. And that it proved to be true. Yeah. It's it's like you like you say, aside from the the sense of moral justice that we can derive from knowing that we're living our life in the most compassionate and and harm-free way, actually being vegan in 2024 is not straightforward. And there's all manner of of difficulties. And you know people will often on the surface look at practical difficulties, maybe health things like that but those social social challenges are huge aren't they or they they certainly can be if if you're living in a vegan commune then maybe it's not a problem but actually for most of us those those social challenges are are real aren't they and it's it's important to address them Yeah, I'll give you um a perfect example of that. ah So obviously I'm, a you know, vegan, do activism. I, you know, i to me, the i would turn the world vegan if I could. I'm certainly trying one one conversation at a time, I guess. Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker
But, um and, you know, coming on this podcast and trying to contribute to vegan awareness. But for example, I went to i started a new job in September and I went to Geneva as part of this new job like for a week. It was a remote job, so I would stay in London, but I had to do that first week. And I went there and the whole team was there, like this whole HR team that I was part of. And there were maybe 15 of us. Would you believe that in in those 15, there was nobody who had they even met a vegan before in their lives? You were like an exhibit. Yeah, yeah. So I felt like, well, freak's not the right word, but I felt i felt that there there wasn't even like a basis of conversation to be had about that.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It went it went way way beyond way beyond, okay, let's book a restaurant where Carlos can actually eat something. It went way beyond that. you know It was kind of ah ah just yet the the grounding of the ethics was, there wasn't even like a common ground that I could explain it with.
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah. It was really odd. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. and yeah So, to to even sorry, even so it's still very hard. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. and And we can get used to our immediate surroundings, whether that's our our family, our our workplace, our social circles in in the one geographical location that we're at. We can get used to that, but just make a slight shift at all. And it can be completely different in the next town, a different a different friendship group or whatever, can't it? I mean, you touched on that earlier, Carlos, and you said that, I feel like you said that when you decided to become vegetarian, there was nobody around you in in a similar situation.
Support Systems in Veganism
00:18:09
Speaker
Whereas when you made the vegan transition, there's a few more, I don't know, there's there's people or there's there's people you know, or or what what difference do you think it makes to to kind of how vegan ready you are from your experience?
00:18:25
Speaker
to have at least one other person that you can relate to, chat to, vent to? I think it's super important. I almost feel like ah we we should have like a a vegan buddy system like they have in, let's say, the 12-step program. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
where you have like ah in ah like a sort of accountability partner or so I don't know what what the term they use in 12-step program, but sort of a mentor perhaps, you know, somebody that you can um ask questions or um vent, know,
00:18:57
Speaker
and move One thing I find very funny, actually, because, you know, as vegans aren't just kind of this dark door very du personalities of very gloomy personalities, always concerned about all the suffering in the world and whatnot.
00:19:12
Speaker
I think there's some very funny stuff about being a vegan. And to me, one of the funniest is when people think I'm like the like a vegan priest. And what what i mean what what do I mean by this? It's like, you you know, you go to, like, for example, when I was in Geneva, right? So, you know, we're at the dinner table. There's like 15 of us. I'm the only vegan. And then everybody feels compelled to confess their sins, right? Yeah. That's what I mean by the vegan priest. you know They come to me and say, oh, I would go vegan, but I have this, this, this, and this problem. I would go vegan, but my children really like meat.
00:19:49
Speaker
um Or I would go vegan, but I have this condition that I can't go vegan. Or I would go vegan, but you know I'm Greek and we eat a lot of meat in Greece. it it's ah It's like being a a priest. you know they They all come to you to confess your sins, which I find it absolutely hilarious. um it's I mean, I didn't ask. you know i didn't ask I'm i'm just sitting just sitting there having my vegan option and chatting about other stuff.
00:20:14
Speaker
it's they It's they who feel, I think they feel guilty ultimately. right Yes, I think that's that's probably a big part of it for a lot of people, isn't it? Yeah, so this mentor thing would be great because the mentor could say, it's all right, son. It's all right, daughter. It's all right, sister. You know you you you ate ah you at a Greek yogurt with dairy in it by mistake. Tomorrow is another day. You can go vegan tomorrow again. you know yeah Yeah, exactly. I mean, if we can, I know that the a vegetarian transition is different in in in several ways, but you've experienced that transition without that buddy or mentor to to go vegetarian. What helped you get through that? Because that that was though it was vegetarian, it was nonetheless a successful transition, but you didn't have anyone around you as a mentor or buddy or what have you. So what what helped there?
00:21:10
Speaker
I think being stubborn and um because i I had told like everybody I knew I was going to go vegetarian. And then I, whenever I felt like I wanted to go back and look, I'm a, I'm a huge fan of things like smoked salmon, for example, which these days actually there's a very very good vegan option from a squeaky bean. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it in the shops this week. Yeah, but but back then there wasn't. So i every time I thought about breaking the vegetarianism, I thought about all those people I told I was going to go vegetarian and they said I couldn't make it. And then I thought, no, yeah yeah I'm going to prove you wrong. I will continue to be vegetarian. It doesn't matter that nobody's nobody's eat nobody's checking what I'm eating in the in the privacy of my kitchen.
00:21:56
Speaker
It doesn't matter. you know I know if i if i have gone if I failed, so I'm going to prove them wrong. and yeah yeah so that kind of stubbornness i guess yeah well it's like a peer accountability isn't it really that you're you're giving yourself there it's very yeah rather so what was then the reaction of those around you when you've when you've said that you're going to to make these changes i mean focus on veganism if if you can but if you want to use examples from vegetarianism then go for it too I think most people just want to know why, because to them, it sounds like a ah huge a huge punishment I was doing to myself.
00:22:34
Speaker
You know, like, oh, you're going vegan, but why? You know, why why why would you do that to yourself? You know, you're you're restricting your options. You're making your life harder. Why would you do that? You know, life's hard enough already. Why are you making it even harder on yourself? So ah ah most of the questions were around that, I think, why I was doing it. And what's what's your response there? I don't mean, what do you say to them as a response to that question, but like, how do you feel when you're getting these questions? Because for some people, it can be really irritating. um I think those, when you get those questions, I think it's always a good opportunity to do a bit of vegan propaganda itself. Because essentially people are asking you, why have you gone vegan? Which also means, why should I go vegan?
00:23:19
Speaker
Or why should I even put that option in the kind of realm of possibilities of my life? yeah So I like to have ah good replies for that. So I could say, for example, look, the world is, ah you know, there's a lot of stuff going wrong, you know,
00:23:34
Speaker
bad in the world, a lot of evil in the world and and suffering, a lot of animal suffering. There's a lot of animal suffering we can do very little about. Like, for example, and this, I think, is a huge blind spot for vegans, by the way, which is wild wild animal suffering. yeah you know there's you know there's the animal There are the animals who live within our sphere of influence, and then there's lots of animals. The majority of animals live completely outside of our sphere of influence, even though we affect their environments and and so on, um but not always. And and I say, look, there's all you know there's all this suffering in the world, you know predation, starvation, you know all these things that cause create you know sentient creatures to suffer. but and and we And we can't do anything about it, right? And then there's all this human suffering. We can't do anything about it. you know We can protest, but some you know often it does nothing. And there's even things we don't we know nothing we we don't even know what's going on
00:24:27
Speaker
But within the small realm of things we can affect in the world, this is one thing we can affect, right? yeah and and any And if we can, you know, ah deprive ourselves a little bit to remove this evil and suffering from the world, and this is within our grasp, within what we can do, we should do it.
00:24:48
Speaker
that that That to me is is is what kind of got me over the line into v veganism and what I tell people. No, I like that. I really, really like that. it's's It's so easy to feel impotent about all the evil in the world and and and suffering and things that go badly for people and animals. and And we have so little say in those things. But for the for the animal that was butchered to be put on my plate...
00:25:14
Speaker
I can say something about it. I can do something about it that will have an immediate impact. And and and therefore, I should do it. I mean, to me, that that's kind of black and white, as black and white as this world can get. No, I like that. And I i think um i think there's a lot of similarities between how I i view things as well there. It's a nice tangible thing to wrestle with, really, isn't it? In terms of when you've eaten vegan for for a little while, whether it's a few weeks, few months, few years, you choose. But what surprised you about the experience? Because
Community and Lifestyle Benefits
00:25:48
Speaker
I'd i'd be astounded if it's gone exactly as you thought it would have done.
00:25:52
Speaker
No, absolutely not. Yeah, things that surprised me. It surprised me how easy it is in the end and to have this kind of moral codes you use for your actions. And when I say easy, I don't mean, I really want sausages. And now there's so many varieties of sausage. I mean, like as a day-to-day thing, you know, that kind of guides your actions. I find it, well, maybe it's because I'm biased because I've been so long But that's a reality that I think in the moment of somebody making that switch, understandably, people can't see very far into the future when they're faced with a change in their lifestyle. But the reality is, I'm pretty much sure that every vegan I know who's been vegan past a few years gets to a point where it becomes harder to not be vegan. It's just autopilot. Yeah, yeah, be very strange. It'd be much harder to not be vegan because then I have to shift all these reactions I have in my brain to certain things. I'll tell you something that's surprising. I'm surprised how fun cooking Yeah.
00:27:05
Speaker
and And how almost anything can be made to be tasty if you learn how to properly prepare it and cook it and how much variety the the there is in terms of vegetables and fruits and legumes and pulses and and so on.
00:27:21
Speaker
Honestly, ah I was surprised and there were things I would never tried or I kind of only tried when they were mixed, chopped and mixed into so other things like cauliflower, for example. You know, that was there was not on my radar of vegetables or cabbage.
00:27:35
Speaker
yeah But, you know, the human history has like a a thousand and one ways to ca cabbage. and um and it's and And to me, that but that was kind of a ah realm of possibilities again opened. instead of So my world, instead of becoming smaller, it became bigger, I think, with veganism.
00:27:53
Speaker
yeah and yeah And I'll tell you another surprising thing, the camaraderie and friendship between vegans. It's great. Yeah, yeah. what where Where do you think that comes from? Why is that? Are we just really nice people? Well, there's ah there's a common ground of kindness and consideration. And I've, well, knock on wood, but I've rarely not got along with a vegan person. Because on on some level, you both believe in something that is, and I'm going to say it because it's vegan podcast, that is good.
00:28:25
Speaker
You both believe in something that is good. You have some principles and those principles are absolutely sound. I have no doubts about them. And if I'm a if i'm in a strange city and I find a local vegan restaurant or vegan hangout place, you know what I mean? And I go there, i know I can start talking with anybody in that place, and I'm going to make at least one friend that day. Yes. i'm i'm i'm This has proven to be correct every single time, and and it's never failed me. you know and and And I don't think meat eaters can say the same.
00:29:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you're you're probably right there. Yeah, you're probably right. um Just to talk, I don't know, ah maybe a bit more superficially or or practically. um What sort of top tips would you give to somebody just like quick things that you've learned or from your experience, either yourself or from your observation of other people making a vegan transition or deciding that that's the lifestyle they want? What what like quick tips could you you just dish out to somebody from from your own or others experience? if you
00:29:33
Speaker
Even if you believe you are in an area with no vegans, you're probably wrong. You're probably in an area with a bunch of vegans who all think they're the only vegan in the village.
00:29:45
Speaker
ah So I would say if you're in an area where there's like where they're like no vegan meetups, ah start organizing them and they will come out of the woodwork. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. This doesn't apply so much to me because I'm kind of just outside London. So I have um lots of kind of vegan people around me, I guess. Yeah. And and a few establish you know establishments and places where you can hang out. And I do go into London for vegan meetups. But I would say kind of get vegan friends. You know, vegans ah vegans are interested in in there being more vegans in the world because that that makes what they're doing even more more effective in terms of changing the world. So if you if you go to, ah let's say, vegan meetup, you find a vegan meetup, you show up.
00:30:28
Speaker
And maybe you're feeling self-conscious. You're like, okay, but I ate a steak last night or whatever, or, you know, bacon for this morning. And you're feeling, if you're transitioning, you might be feeling self-conscious about those things. But if you go there and you say, look, i'm I'm thinking of going vegan and I just wanted to, you know, to meet a few vegans and ask for tips. And so, look, that that person is going to get a really, well, a warm welcome yes to the community. And, you know, people might judge you. They might not judge you. It doesn't matter. Effectively, what they will try to do is try to make a transition as easy as possible. Yeah, absolutely. So so that's my top tip. The other top tip would be learn how to cook. Yes. Yeah. but but yeah
00:31:13
Speaker
Well, it's ah it's a good thing to know anyway, isn't it? Yeah, it's that that's a good kind of general becoming an adult kind of tip. But, you know, just learn how to cook because often you'll um you know you you might be in the supermarket and you might see something exotic in the produce section you've never seen before.
00:31:31
Speaker
And you might go, okay, I want to give this a go, right? And if you were perhaps an omnivore, you might go, oh, but there's all this other stuff in the supermarket I can buy. But when you're kind of in a vegan mindset, you're kind of looking for these kind of ah expanding your horizons, which you might think are small because they're you know you've excluded so much from your diet, right? And then you you look you know you find like a vegetable you never cooked before and you go, okay, I want to give this a go. you know And that you know who knows, maybe that that will be a big revelation. Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. keeping Keeping an open mind is, ah yeah I think, isn't it? Well, it it leads to many opportunities. um
Challenges in Social Settings
00:32:11
Speaker
In terms of times when your veganism has been challenged or your resolve has been challenged or it's been harder to be vegan in certain situations for you, what like what have those situations been? Like, for example, for me, it's never the smell of bacon or, or, the thought of a cheese pizza or anything like that. It's it's social situations where I don't want to offend somebody who's offered me something they've they've made, for example. That is is what, in the early days, challenged my veganism. And on a couple of occasions, I would ah would just eat it because out of embarrassment. What have been the the biggest challenges for you and individually? um
00:32:54
Speaker
That's a good question. um Well, I've definitely been in in ah in social situations where, you know, so i'm i'm i'm I'm Portuguese. I was born in Portugal and I came to the UK in 2006. So for me, grilled fish is is something that's always been part of my life. You know, it's like um like a staple food, which is kind of probably inconceivable for most Brits um to grill fish and then kind of pick apart the bones and the skin and and all that stuff. um
00:33:24
Speaker
But, ah you know, that's thiss kind of how i grew up. and and and And I certainly kind of, when I've gone back to Portugal, it's much better now. But in the early days of going back to Portugal, you know, people would invite me because they hadn't seen me for a year or two years. They would invite me to their house and they would be having like a barbecue.
00:33:42
Speaker
And they would not have taken me into account. Yes. And were literally making my favorite food. Yes. from back in the day and I was hungry and you know yeah you you you we're we're not ourselves when we're hungry yeah yeah yeah so so those situations are hard and then of course the the other situation are those items which are very hard to shop still for a vegan option which and this is because to me veganism is something that we can fail and then we can come back Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, it doesn't mean we didn't, we went vegan for an hour off, off veganism for an hour and then back. It's just veganism is, it has a lot of failure in in my view. And then, you know, it's failure, but then coming back and and coming back, you know, for example, try buying a vegan car. It's really hard because somewhere some there's ah a leather.
00:34:32
Speaker
There's leather being used for something. It might not be the seats. It might be the fast the thing that fastens the seat belts or some other bit under the the chassis or whatever, you know, or some glue used somewhere. Yeah.
00:34:47
Speaker
Those things are are ah kind of really, really difficult. And for example, I play electric guitar and now there there are quite a few options. But when I went to vegan, there were no vegan straps for guitars.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah. if if Everything had at least that little piece of leather where it connects to the guitar with the hooks. It was really, really hard or getting like a decent vegan belt back in the day. You had those horrendous... cork ones yeah that didn't bend properly and kind of cracked when they got too dry. i mean, that there's still lot quite lots but lots of things where it's hard to make a um good choice. Look, it's hard enough already. And sometimes you just need to to realize that you've you've tried everything you could to make a good choice. And sometimes you just have to to realize you're going to be you're going to contribute slightly to the exploitation.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. but but then But then you do that and then immediately afterwards you're back on the hardcore veganism. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's not a vegan world yet, is it? So ah yeah that's going to be an occupational hazard. I feel like we've, I'm really enjoying this conversation. I feel like we're going to lots of areas that the other other interviews we've had we we haven't gone into. I'm still gonna ask this question.
00:36:01
Speaker
what What is it that you think that in terms of supporting people becoming vegan and staying vegan, that there's there's lots of resources out there that are really helpful.
Promoting Veganism and Outreach
00:36:13
Speaker
So it's Veganuary at the moment. So you go on Veganuary's website, loads of recipes, loads, you know, there's lots of support in many ways.
00:36:21
Speaker
But there's also cracks in the provision and in the support that we're able to provide either new vegans or people who've been vegan a long time, things that we don't talk about or we don't give enough support to currently in the vegan movement. What what would you say, from your point of view, are those important?
00:36:39
Speaker
um blind spots for us at the moment? Good question. I think we can still keep building the story around veganism more and more and more.
00:36:51
Speaker
I think it does get diluted. i think I think, for example, things like health. ah Fair enough. Look, in general, vegans are healthier than then people who eat a varied diet. But I've been around nutrition for long enough that I i could be as healthy as an omnivore as I am as a vegan. right I know enough about nutrition and and such things. And I think the the story needs to to be told more around animal exploitation. It just needs to be repeated more in animal suffering. I think that's the the main story.
00:37:27
Speaker
And I think that story needs to be repeated. and also the other story, which is the one I was talking about now, the story that... Veganism is a journey full of failure, which that which doesn't mean that you stop being a vegan. It doesn't mean you you can't go back to being a vegan or you you know you you can just keep going. I think just kind of building those narratives and awareness around those narratives. Some of the vegan actions I see, they...
00:37:54
Speaker
they you know they sometimes are I think they're too provocative and they're not compassionate enough. I think we should extend the compassion we show to animals as vegans. We should extend that compassion into the human animals who are not vegan and and treat them kindly and understand that some of them...
00:38:15
Speaker
Some of them might already be on the journey, even though they might be eating a bacon sandwich right in front of you or you know buying a leather purse in front of you. they They might already be on the journey. They just they just need to kind of, ah sure, they can be challenged, but we we should we should be also compassionate towards them.
00:38:35
Speaker
Wise words you've spoken there. Thank you. couple of questions to finish off then, both slightly hypothetical. Do you think you would have found it easier if your vegan or vegetarian, you choose, journey started now in 2004? Do you think it's easier?
00:38:52
Speaker
yeah Yes. Why is that? Yes. because ah there are just more vegans around and there's a there are a lot more choices in terms of products and options and i think instead of wondering about things like smoked salmon will i ever eat smoked salmon again i like the taste so much uh i could have just gone oh there's a let me try this variant and then yes that would have made absolutely easier i mean it's easier now and in two A year will be easier, and five years even easier, in ten years even easier, yeah and and so on and so forth. Although ultimately, until the majority of the population is vegan, it will always be harder than not.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yes. Do you think there's anything that's harder now than when you went vegan? Only if you're the kind of person who wants to be part of a little exclusive club. You like to feel very special.
00:39:45
Speaker
but yeah You like to feel very, very special about being a vegan because now you might find that it's not so special and you might go to work or school or university and and there's like all these other vegans around and you might just go, oh.
00:40:01
Speaker
It's not cool anymore. I had that experience. I've ran a vegan cafe in a vegan restaurant and there was little element when opening both that you would get some customers coming in who didn't quite know how to eat in a cafe or restaurant where they weren't the special ones anymore. they were kind of having the special menu or that you know they needed to speak to the chef to get a special meal made for them and yeah you've got to say yeah we're all like that here mate you're not special anymore i'm afraid really okay final question then for you carlos again a hypothetical one if you could go back to the start of your vegan journey and not necessarily do it all again but go about it with your knowledge now would you do anything differently
00:40:48
Speaker
Only in the way I treat myself. I would tell myself to be kinder to myself, ah you know, with the with the failures and with the things that didn't go ah so well. I would just tell, you're going mess up.
00:41:01
Speaker
It's fine. It's fine. You're going mess up and then you recognize you messed up and then you do it correctly next time. That's it. Yeah. That's only thing. Oh, oh, I would tell myself to get involved in vegan activism earlier.
00:41:13
Speaker
yeah tell us Tell us about the activism you do then, because there's ah there's a whole swathe of what is activism and what you know people regard as activism, um and it can be different for different people. what's What do you engage with and why do you like it? Yeah, so I do ah the one I mentioned, which is vegan outreach.
00:41:31
Speaker
That's us in the middle of this the streets. Two people or more stand up with screens, holding screens, and they show images of factory farming and other kind of... ah animal exploitation involving humans, of course, a humans doing the exploiting. And um and then the others ah the others in the group, they hang around. And when we see that somebody is looking at those screens and being perhaps shocked by the images or reflecting, On the images, we approach and we start the conversation using the, what's it called, the Socratic method of kind of asking questions and trying to lead people to the, let's say, the vegan conclusion that that the this is an those are examples of exploitation that they're paying money for or contributing to in some fashion and that they could make the choice to not contribute to that. So it's basically just a conversation. In fact, I'm going to do it. Well, I don't know when this podcast going to but I'm going to do it this Saturday.
00:42:32
Speaker
yeah So two days from the recording. Yeah. Yeah. So in in Leicester Square in London. So very lots of people. Yeah. Lots lots of people. And and yeah how does that feel when you're doing that?
00:42:45
Speaker
Ah, it feels great. It feels great. It feels great because we so often do things in our lives which we're not completely sure of that they're contributing to a better world or not, or if we're just doing it because we get a paid in the end or we feel, I don't know, ah proud of it or or vain about it or something. But this thing, I'm absolutely sure. i'm If I can if i so go there for four hours and I can...
00:43:11
Speaker
plant a few seeds about veganism in a few heads. And if, you know, one of those people becomes a vegan, that's, you know, that's amazing. That would be amazing. You know, that's that's literally thousands of animals saved, right? Yeah. and And probably a much happier, more at peace human. Hopefully. So that's one that's the the softer side of the activism I do. And then um I do direct action, let's call it. I'm a hunt saboteur. Great. um So I sab with ah North London Hunt Sabs and we try to monitor and disrupt fox hunting.
00:43:47
Speaker
Wow. Which i i I said the other was soft. This is hard because it involves very cold weather, lots of muds covering like between 15 and 25 kilometers in a day on foot, um being abused by hunt stewards and terrier men, often seeing horrendous things being done to animals in front of our very own eyes. You know, it is what it is, you know. yeah I can't not do it.
00:44:14
Speaker
No, absolutely. And hopefully you're going to be joining us on an episode of the pod to to discuss this in a bit more detail too. Hopefully. Yeah. Fantastic. Cool. Carlos, it's been fabulous talking to you and and and listening to your vegan journey. It's really, really been been wonderful. If we can, I'd like to leave with ah another 30 second hypothetical example. We're going to imagine that we're in a lift and the lift door has just opened and someone who is doing veganuary right now,
00:44:44
Speaker
has walked in and they're traveling to the third floor, let's say. So you've got 30 seconds in the lift with them and they've said, oh, Carlos, you're vegan. I'm doing veganuary.
00:44:56
Speaker
You've got 30 seconds in the lift with them. What are you going to say? I'm going to say it's great that you're ah ah trying out Veganuary. i also became a vegan as a sort of Year's resolution in a way. And I've never gone back. I felt so much better physically, mentally, psychologically. It was like a huge relief for me. And I hope it feels like a huge relief for you as well.
00:45:17
Speaker
If you ever have any questions, any doubts, you need some reassurance or tips, here's my number, email, just my contact. Just just reach out first before you panic or or you feel that you can't do it because you definitely can.
00:45:30
Speaker
Awesome. Carlos, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.
00:45:44
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com.
00:45:58
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
00:46:25
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world week.
00:46:49
Speaker
week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from