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Veganuary 2026: Julie's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
104 Plays22 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from the brilliant, regular Falafeller, Julie!
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 25 directly https://zencastr.com/z/QGpQQo0p
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Mission
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions.
Special Episodes for Veganuary 2026
00:00:17
Speaker
And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those. So it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors. We really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026.
Julie's Early Animal Connection and Vegan Seed Planting
00:01:01
Speaker
Julie, thank you so much for joining us today. Really, really looking forward to to having a chat with you and and hearing bit more about your vegan story, how you got into all of this. So maybe if we start off at the very beginning or maybe even before the beginning, were there any signs before you decided to become vegan? Was there anything that kind of led up to it or some seeds sort of earlier on in the journey that ultimately proved pivotal for you? I think I've always loved animals since I was tiny.
00:01:36
Speaker
i didn't have pets when I was young because we lived close to a busy road, but I was always really drawn to animals, always really loved them. And when I was 12, so this is because I'm 54 now.
Influence of 'The Animals Film' and Early Vegetarianism
00:01:51
Speaker
and When I was 12, so back in the, I think, 81, there was a program on television called The Animals Film on BBC Two. My sister and I watched that. um So after seeing that, I completely stopped eating meat and fish, and I became a bit obsessed with
00:02:16
Speaker
the anti-vivisection movement. You don't hear the word vivisection much these days, but that was the buzzword then. So I was not vegan, but i that was the seeds being planted, I think. That was the start of it. And can I ask, how did that feel at the time and how did that go down in terms of those around you? Like how how sort of vegetarian ready, I guess, was your situation then?
Family's Reaction to Vegetarianism and Personal Conviction
00:02:42
Speaker
Not at all. Really not at all. Let me think. My mum said, well, that's fine, but I'm not making two different meals. You can make your own tea. and That's what we call in Scotland, not your dinner. but You can make your own tea.
00:02:59
Speaker
um My dad, I think, insisted, I don't know if i even went, but my dad said that he would tell our family doctor to talk some sense into me. and People at school thought I was really strange as well and kind of, you know, came at me with bits of meat on a fork under my face and, thought you know, did all that daft stuff. So, yeah, there was quite a lot of pushback. Yeah, and and how did you receive that at the time? Like, you're 12 years old at the time. That's that's quite a lot, isn't it?
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, and it's an age where you don't like being different and you like to fit in. And I had already moved school to, you know, to a different school in a different part of Scotland and was already an outsider. So, yeah, it was a little bit tough, I think. But I was i was pretty clear...
00:03:57
Speaker
then, I mean, the whole vegan thing wasn't coming to my mind, but certainly the not wanting meat and everything, I couldn't have possibly gone back on that decision then. It really yucked me out, the thought of eating, things like that.
Initial Disconnect with Dairy and Leather
00:04:16
Speaker
But I was still wearing leather and those, you know, and and consuming dairy products then and not seeing an issue. I don't know what the animals film had to say about that because it's too long ago, I can't remember. But the whole meat and flesh thing, you know, was really freaking me out then. Yeah, so there's two things I want to ask on that. I mean, firstly, how did you cope then? Because you've said that it was it was difficult. Like, what was it that got you through?
00:04:46
Speaker
don't know. I just really just did not want to eat that stuff anymore. it really turned my stomach. So I didn't really need to use a lot of willpower, and which is just as well. I don't think I'm a human being that has a whole lot of that, really. and So it wasn't a discipline thing. It wasn't a willpower. It was a real yuck factor having seen, you know, pictures of what happens in slaughterhouses and making connections that I had not made before. So that got me
Dietary Independence and Simple Meals
00:05:20
Speaker
through. i didn't really mind making my own tea.
00:05:24
Speaker
and I had a fairly laissez-faire upbringing anyway. And for me, lemon curd pieces and cornflakes.
00:05:34
Speaker
wear my tea for a few years, which is not healthy at all. But I didn't know any different at the time. And actually it was quite liberating. I just thought, well, I'm doing it my way. You know, I'm doing my thing and I seem to be perfectly healthy on it. And I wasn't really worried too much, you know. Absolutely. And so you've kind of touched on the second question I was going to ask there, which was what were the details in in this film that you saw that were so compelling? Do you know, it's too long I can't remember.
00:06:04
Speaker
But I think it was just that I think it showed you inside slaughterhouses um and I had never seen that or really given it a lot of thought. I think it was that and I think I was just making the connection between the animals that I love and you know, the the obvious ones like horses and dogs and, you know, the animals that we kind of are exposed to growing up and the fact that other animals existed that I didn't really have contact with, but they deserve the same right to a happy life and a peaceful existence as these other ones where it was a bit more obvious to me. You know, I didn't want to be somebody who loved horses and yet thought that it was okay to cow kill cows.
00:06:54
Speaker
You know that? Yeah, absolutely. So take us from your adolescence then up to thinking about veganism, veganism coming on the radar. How did
Gradual Shift to Veganism and Developed Compassion
00:07:04
Speaker
that happen? Well, I think that it sort of happened, different aspects of veganism crept in gradually. But I think what happened for me was i like most people, I imagine, faced quite a lot of adversity in life, experienced quite a lot of loss, and I experienced suffering myself personally.
00:07:30
Speaker
And I also witnessed other people close to me suffering. And that, I think, developed my compassion muscle quite a bit. um so And it gave me a really strong sense of justice, which I've absolutely maintained. So I've been working for 37 years now.
00:07:53
Speaker
And every job I've done and every piece of voluntary work, and I've done loads, has all been about helping people, about addressing injustice, you know, that or alleviating suffering in all its forms. So that's a big thing for me. I'm really moved by suffering in a big, big way.
00:08:15
Speaker
So it was a very natural progression for me to, as I got older and learned a bit more about how the world works.
00:08:27
Speaker
Obviously, I, along the way, learned about about animal use and exploitation and naturally, as a peace-loving person, wanted to distance myself from that.
Realizing Alignment with Vegan Principles
00:08:41
Speaker
The final piece of the puzzle did not fall into place though until I was over 40 and and I was on Facebook and there was a little video on there by a lovely writer called Wrenhurst and she's got a video on there, I think it's still there, about why horse riding is not vegan.
00:09:06
Speaker
So I wasn't identifying myself as a vegan then. I was just someone who tried to act in accordance with my own principles. But I hate labels and I'm a bit of a rebel. I used to be a bit of a punk when I was younger. So I really didn't want a label. I was not a badge-wearing person at all. And I didn't like getting typecast or pigeonholed at all. But I saw this little video about why... And I thought, what?
00:09:33
Speaker
Horserine, what? you know I didn't make the links, but I saw this little video or and it really encapsulated what veganism was all about.
00:09:43
Speaker
and And it's so an awkward thing for your podcast in a way, but I didn't then decide to be vegan. I realized I was. So I was already kind of doing it.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I thought, this is the word for what I am doing. But you've got to remember from the, I left home at the age of 17. And I've not had a television set since. So I'm a little bit unconventional. So perhaps some of the, you know, education that could have come my way. you know, has not done so. But, you know, shout out to Facebook, really. so that it was that that was the final piece for me, was the thing about horse riding and what that argument encapsulated. That's that's fascinating that you sort of just had this realisation that there's this word that describes what you're doing. I mean, i i in many, many ways, I completely agree with what you're saying about labels. I think particularly in quite polemic times that we have at the moment, we're actually labeling people as vegan and not vegan. And, you know, pretty much any cause or argument, you can put people in in two or more different camps, can't you? And it it it can drive people away. It's often not a helpful thing. There can be positives for for using the label vegan as well, but in terms of people asking, well, what does that mean? And then it's a good opportunity to explain. But That's great. I love that. I love that. i love that way of coming to it. So when you realise there's that this word that describes what you're doing, is that is that literally it? or is Or is there any element there of thinking, oh, well, actually, I'm still using animals in in this way? or Or is it literally just, a oh, okay, I'll call myself this now then? How
Dairy Industry Realization and Lifestyle Reflection
00:11:31
Speaker
does that work? Well, I think...
00:11:33
Speaker
There was one aspect of behaviour change that I had to consciously make. And that was that for several years, again, doing voluntary work with the riding for the Disabled Association, believe it or not, you know, using horses, la la.
00:11:49
Speaker
I was very much in touch with the farming community as a result of doing that particular work. And I was specifically in touch with a farmer who services the the kind of organic milk and dairy product scene. And I was lulled into a very false sense of security that that stuff was okay. And I believed that for years.
00:12:20
Speaker
And when I really thought it through and discovered the truth behind that scenario, yes, that was that was a really conscious, conscious decision. Again, I think that came before the whole, right, I better explain myself as a vegan now because I am doing it. But again, I i hesitate even now to label myself in that way because Sometimes when I am out and about with the wider population, they will say things like, oh, do you want some of this, Julie? And then they'll say, oh no, you you're not allowed that because you are vegan. And I will say, depending on how much I like them um or whatever, how gentle I will be, But I will just say something like, well, it's not a question of being allowed it. I don't want it, but thank you for even thinking of it. But I do not want it in any way because I don't want to consume something that comes from animal use or abuse. i It's kind of the other way around.
00:13:28
Speaker
Because I am against animal abuse, I am seen as being vegan. I'm not. wanting to be vegan and wanting that label and I want to be in the vegan club so I better not, oh, I'd love that cheese but i better not have it, you know. So I don't have those struggles. I can understand the people who do it the other way around, who see the moral argument for a change in their behaviour and want to embody that, want to embrace it and want that to be part of who they are
00:14:04
Speaker
but they're not there and they have to make a change in their behavior and it's an effort and it requires some kind of discipline. And I think for the people who manage to do it that way round, total respect. but I will be upfront and honest and say that once I knew what I was buying into, what I was spending my money on, what I was being duped into supporting, how much that did not align with who I see myself as being, I couldn't stop fast enough.
00:14:39
Speaker
I did not have to do baby steps, anything, I will admit, just because I wanted to distance myself immediately. I wanted to backdate my distancing, never mind anything else, just because it was so out of alignment with what I truly believe in and want to be part of my life and my consumption and where my money is going, you know? Absolutely. It's sounding to me, please, please correct me if if I'm misinterpreting or mishearing, Julie, but it it feels to me like your identity is so wrapped up in being compassionate and just and and living those things out in your life and in your actions.
00:15:27
Speaker
In a sense, I don't know how useful the word vegan is, really, because yes, it can describe things to an extent, but actually sometimes, I mean, it's it's a useful phrase, i I feel, a useful word, but actually sometimes it can sound a bit dogmatic, I think. And it it just suggests a rule book that that we're following, which doesn't then necessarily carry the gravitas of the meaning behind it. And and hearing what you're saying here it feels very much like the meaning is is the important thing, look far far less than the the label, the term, the the rules, if you like. Yeah, absolutely. And on the flip side as well, there is a real satisfaction and enjoyment for me that when I go to the supermarket, then
00:16:19
Speaker
And I am putting all this stuff because I'm a huge eater and I'm really passionate about food. And I know it's not just about what you eat, but it's kind of a big part of it.
00:16:30
Speaker
But when I fill my trolley up, I love the fact I am making big spaces I mean, I really make some big spaces in those supermarket shelves. and um Or, you know, I've got a farm shop, organic farm shop down the road where i live and all that. So, you know, I can burn through one of those boxes that are meant to feed a family for a week in about two days.
00:16:55
Speaker
And I make big spaces when I shop for food. And those spaces get refilled with things that are, you know, not linked to animal abuse. And I get a lot out of that. I love that. I enjoy buying things that that support that vibe. I just, I get a lot of satisfaction from that.
00:17:20
Speaker
So it isn't anything about deprivation for me. It's all about enjoying contributing to a peaceful way of life i'm really enjoying hearing you talk about it got say um if we if we get practical then because i think a lot of people's experience is that once you get some momentum behind you a vegan lifestyle can be very straightforward and become second nature and almost effortless or or possibly even effortless But very often when making lifestyle changes, whether it's to do with food or exercise or habits or whatever, those first few steps can be quite difficult.
Practical Challenges of Vegan Lifestyle
00:18:01
Speaker
And I'm wondering to what extent you found that I'm hearing a really strong, compelling ethic behind what you're doing that's helping your reasons for doing it. But that doesn't necessarily always obliterate any practical difficulties. You're absolutely right.
00:18:18
Speaker
It's one thing what you choose to do in your own home, but when you're in a workplace or when you are out with friends or when you're far from home and there are limited catering facilities or shopping opportunities or whatever, then yes, there can be, i think in my early days, I can definitely remember feeling a bit awkward or a bit kind of like I was a bit of a nuisance or whatever. The other thing I've got to cope with on top of that, which is is a worse thing to have to work around when it comes to food, is that I am utterly intolerant and allergic or something. have a terrible reaction to everything that is an allium. Okay, give us some ah context because I'm not sure, Ryan, I know what you mean. Oh, okay. So I cannot eat an onion, a leek, a bit of garlic or anything in that family without becoming really super duper unwell. Oh, gosh. And there's
00:19:26
Speaker
onions in everything. So yeah, adding not having anything that comes from animals into that mix when it comes to eating out and all the rest of it is challenging.
00:19:39
Speaker
Definitely that. And there is this temptation, I think, to try and make everything really easy for anybody who is inviting you to eat with them, perhaps, or you know, something like that, there there is that always was that urge not to be a burden or a nuisance or anything like that. So yeah, that the struggle is real. Yeah. and Wow. So I mean, how have you overcome that? Like, how' do how do you work with that? Like in a pragmatic way? um I think the people who know me well and love me are used to me by now and I am someone who carries food with them everywhere I go.
00:20:22
Speaker
um Which is really handy though because if anybody is ever, if I'm ever out with somebody and they, like if we're out a big long walk or something, somebody gets a bit peckish or feels a bit lightheaded, They know who to ask. They know who is carrying the scran. I've always got food on me. So there is that. And yeah, I think I just, I just work around it. And I'm not, I'm pretty self-sufficient. And sometimes if I am really going into a very determinedly carnist environment. Christmas dinners are quite you know an obvious example. So one of the Christmas nights out that I am doing this year, I'm actually not going for the meal because it's just a shame for the restaurant because they've got a set menu and it's very meat based on all the rest. So I'm just going to turn up like I did last year
00:21:16
Speaker
And just do the dancing. That's it. I just show up and I just dance all night. So I don't need to worry about the sit down meal or whatever. And I'm in. That's the best bit anyway, really, isn't Exactly.
00:21:29
Speaker
When you were talking about your adolescence and kind of coming to vegetarianism, you were saying that the the environment around you wasn't necessarily the ideal one for for for that transition to happen.
00:21:42
Speaker
As you've got older and and switched more to a vegan way of living, has that got easier with age in terms of obstacles around you and and barriers there are to overcome or things being, I mean, I call it vegan ready. Like, I don't know if you were Growing up in Brighton and and already had vegan parents, like you're in the most vegan ready position I could imagine. Does does that make any sense at all? Yes, absolutely. i live in East Lothian, in Scotland.
00:22:11
Speaker
And it's a predominantly farming county and it's not particularly progressive. It's lovely. I love it. But it's not progressive. My nearest city is Edinburgh. It's a little more so. But East Lothian is, it yeah, it's quite an old-fashioned place. So...
00:22:31
Speaker
There are no vegan cafes or restaurants whatsoever in the whole county that I live in. So I don't have a terribly vegan friendly environment to be in whatsoever.
Social Dynamics and Planting Seeds of Veganism
00:22:45
Speaker
But what about those around you? So yeah, facilities is one thing. yeah But then social social group, family, like that's that's another layer of it, isn't it? Well, I'm the only vegan in my family and among my friends, the the main vegans I know, and I don't think any of them, hardly any of them live in East Lothian. They would be more Edinburgh.
00:23:08
Speaker
based i would say thinking about it so no don't have a lot of peer support but i am really lucky in that i do have a lot of lovely friends who are very sympathetic and supportive and they do that funny thing where when they're with me they kind of act vegan and they don't eat animals in front of me And they are very willing to chime along with my views and they're very sympathetic.
00:23:41
Speaker
But what they do when they're not in my presence, you know, is a whole other story. but yeah Can I ask how you find that? It's difficult because I kind of love these people, but I don't love what they do. And I always hope that they will join the dots and make the connections that I And and i think it I think it will happen. And certainly there are some people who I think I have worn away at them that they've made that change. The other kind of ambassadors that I have on my side, and I mentioned this when we were communicating prior to this, I have some little sheet
00:24:27
Speaker
within my care who are living their best life and who will not be going to an abattoir and a lot of my friends have come to visit them and spend time with them and when i describe my relationship with these little beings and the lifestyle i'm trying to give them I it's not ideal. They're in a field. They're fenced in. you know So in a way, they they don't have their freedom, but they have their life and they have safety and they aren't going to go for slaughter. And they will not have lambs that are taken away from them. They won't have lambs. So when some of my friends have just spent time with me and my sheep and got to hear about
00:25:13
Speaker
the relationship that I can have with these little beings, which is one of total equality and it's not subordination or use in any way, that again, that is a good example. It kind of plants the seeds because when people hear that I have sheep in my care, I don't say I own them, they're not mine, but in a sense, you know, traditionally speaking, they are. But the the the next question I always always get is, what have you got them for? What do you use them for?
00:25:43
Speaker
Do you hear them? Do you do you have them for a having a laugh? And I just say, no, they're taken out of all of that stuff. And that gets people talking. So there are a lot of people who are on side with me. And I think they are inching their way towards some kind of change. Yeah, well, of course they will be. And in terms of, it kind of comes around full circle to the question I've asked you in terms of like how how vegan ready or how vegan supportive is your environment? Well, you're increasing the vegan readiness and vegan supportiveness of those around you, aren't aren't you? So it's you know it's is's just about lowering those barriers and and being there just so that when people are on there on the precipice of veganism, they can they can have a friendly nudge over the edge. And I do, I keep it friendly and not... confrontational where possible it's really hard though because people frustrate me with their o you know cheese
00:26:50
Speaker
it's not awful
00:26:54
Speaker
That really compelling argument. Oh, jeez. I get impatient with the people who are so interested in their taste buds when, you know, innocent lives are at stake. But I...
Approach to Vegan Advocacy and Identity Concerns
00:27:09
Speaker
If they're even just having the conversation and telling me what their stumbling block is, that is better than just blanking it and not even having that conversation. So...
00:27:22
Speaker
I have all the time in the world and all the hope and excitement. If anybody wants to talk to me about veganism, i always let them start the conversation. i don't start those conversations. But people know, I think, that they can have that conversation with me and not get shamed about anything that they are doing or not doing.
00:27:46
Speaker
But I'm just so excited at the thought that they will join those dots. yeah absolutely can i ask you some questions about using the vegan label and as identifying as as a vegan um there's been a point where you've decided to do that isn't there did you have any trepidation towards doing that is there anything you were fearful of of doing that or making you question whether you should do it i think i didn't want to be confused with some people who probably just exist in my head, I might have made them up, I don't know if they even exist, but um I kind of worry that there might be people out there that I might be thought of as being who just think that something's a bit trendy and jump on that bandwagon and do Donald Watson a massive disservice, you know, and
00:28:42
Speaker
They just are using that label to impress people or to just to be really shallow about it or to embrace, well, not embrace, not the right word, but to call themselves vegan when what they are doing is becoming part-time plant-based because it's better for their sinuses or something like that. I just didn't, you know, I didn't want to be muddled up with the people for whom it isn't real just because it means so much to me.
00:29:18
Speaker
And because I've kind of seen people who were very badge-wearing vegans who didn't seem 100% about it or who were more caught up with the identity and the label and the the social aspect of that. Good luck to them on that one, by the way. but you know, and and I just thought, um I'm just not somebody who does that about anything, really. So, yeah, that there was a bit of hesitancy on my part to be vegan out loud, but i overcame that.
00:29:59
Speaker
by thinking to myself, because it matters so much, if there's any opportunity for people to know that that's what I am and talk to me about it and be persuaded themselves, it's worth my discomfort, definitely.
00:30:16
Speaker
And there was a point as well where, and you'll know this, where I joined Vegan Runners as well. And kind of within my locality back in the day sort of became a bit inspirational to people who you know wanted to take up running but that was a double-edged thing because some people were attracted to the whole vegan thing getting muddled up with plant-based nests if you see what I mean and and I felt that my
00:30:52
Speaker
success was being held up as a, oh, well, if you if you give up, and I don't like that word, you know, if you deprive yourself of eating animal stuff, you'll be a better runner, you know, or whatever. And i'm that's not the message I wanted to give out at all. But there was one occasion where I won a little race in Glasgow in Scotland at little 10K, you know, outright. It was a women's race. so It was all women. But I won it outright and ended up, you know, being interviewed.
00:31:29
Speaker
And, you know, of course, the whole topic of veganism came up. And I didn't want it to be about that in way because I'm not trying to sell a lifestyle because if people are struggling with veganism, the struggles they're having is because they're thinking about them.
Aligning Advocacy with Genuine Values
00:31:49
Speaker
and not about the animals. And so you don't get them off the track of thinking about them by selling it, by saying, oh, but you'll you'll be slimmer or fitter or whatever.
00:32:01
Speaker
These things are almost unfortunate side effects. They will be slimmer and fitter and healthier. But I don't want to sell it on that because... yeah If something else comes along in their life that they also believe will make them slimmer and fitter and healthier, but involves animal cruelty, back to that, they'll go for that too. Because you haven't got them off the me, me, me mindset.
00:32:29
Speaker
And you have to drop that, I think. Otherwise, you're never going to last. Yeah, absolutely. Has anything surprised you along this journey of avoiding animal use in in in your life? that I think there are a lot of preconceptions that people have and things they will assume will be the case, things they're assuming that they will feel or think or have happened to them when they when they try and make this compassionate choice. Or it like you say, it might be made for for other reasons that end up not being borne out or pleasant surprises end up happening. have you experienced things that were not as you would have expected beforehand? and The pleasant surprise that I've had is that when you seek out products that don't involve animal abuse, you inevitably find companies, people and products that are lovely in us all sorts of other ways. So that if you are, for instance, looking at
00:33:32
Speaker
products that aren't tested on animals, you know, toiletries or something like that. When you find those things, they're not just that. They are ethical in all sorts of other ways. And you just find that you are supporting companies that are just nice in all sorts of other ways. And the people that you are then in contact with are people that you feel really good about spending your money with. and It does tend to bring you into a sort of retail environment that has strong ethics in lots of ways and into smaller businesses and not great big huge organizations and things. So I think it makes the whole being a consumer experience really, really enjoyable.
00:34:25
Speaker
It doesn't need to make it more expensive. Sometimes it's the opposite. But you do come into contact with humans that just make you feel happy to deal with, and who are kind of living in their own integrity. So you get better stuff out of it and you get like a a double benefit.
00:34:50
Speaker
So when Christmas comes along, For me, I make an absolute point of anything I buy as a gift is always something that is free from animal abuse and, if possible, supporting an animal charity or something like that.
00:35:07
Speaker
And it's a beautiful gift as well and it's it's carefully chosen for the person. So it just gives another element, you know, because otherwise, probably back in the day, years and years ago, I would be thinking, oh, dear Christmas shopping, you know, it's a bit of a chore. And why am I buying, you know, all this stuff for people who can they don't really need it or whatever. But now the whole thing becomes really interesting and exciting for me. because I know I'm supporting good causes and I'm buying lovely things for people so that's been the pleasant sort of surprise and i think the whole process of buying stuff that doesn't isn't linked with animal abuse is really easy now with the internet and there's much more to choose from there there are far more opportunities to purchase day-to-day things so Really, it's it's enjoyable. it's um It's a nice search to do now. So that's but I think that's a real positive. Yeah. It strikes me that you've cached the whole journey that you've gone on through the lens of being justice and and compassionate minded and and and driven. It strikes me that coming into contact with others who who share that worldview, if you like, is is something that's really important to you. Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
But don't get me wrong. When I do come into contact with people who are out-and-out carnists, I still have friends and acquaintances who are that, absolutely, especially because I do have sheep in my care, so I have to interface with farming people, you know, quite regularly who are openly, you know, opposed to veganism and all the rest of it. But I enjoy hearing their point of view.
00:37:00
Speaker
And I enjoy having conversations with them. And I actually really enjoy when people challenge me on what I believe and what I stand for. I love that. I love a good debate. Well, it's I mean, it's great, isn't it? In a sense, you can't lose, I think, when you you go down the the road of of debating or kind of. entertaining different possibilities because you either find a new way of approaching life, which is which is great, or you feel really reaffirmed in in in what you do believe and you've tested it out by kind of having conversations with other other people is is my take on that sort of thing.
Navigating Social Situations as a Vegan
00:37:38
Speaker
Slight sidetrack now, despite my own drive to to avoid animal use and and and live my life by a strong moral code with regards to that, there have been times, particularly at the start of my vegan journey, where I wasn't able to stick to it 100%.
00:37:57
Speaker
Generally speaking, if I was at somebody's house or somebody's made me something, I didn't have the the nerve to challenge it, or I didn't have the tools to kind of preempt it beforehand, which I've i've learned is the best way of kind of preventing it before it happens.
00:38:13
Speaker
Have you found it to be something that once you've set your mind to it, you're able to completely stick to, or have there been pitfalls along the way? I haven't had pitfalls along the way.
00:38:23
Speaker
I wonder though, if it was kind of made easier in a perverse kind of way because of the whole alliums thing, you know, the the onions, leeks and garlic in terms of food, because I have to just absolutely exclude myself from so many offerings and mainstream things food wise that I'm so practiced at that.
00:38:47
Speaker
In a way, it made it more difficult. In some ways, it made it more easy. But in terms of other things, you know, occasionally, i like the other day I was in Marks and Spencer's wanting to buy a nice warm jumper for winter and I saw what I really liked and I always checked the label and it was like 8% wool and I thought, damn, you know, but there's that.
00:39:12
Speaker
But, you know, I draw that line. I just think, Nope, it's not happening. So things like that occasionally, but I know, I absolutely know, I just need to keep looking and there will be something even nicer just around the corner.
00:39:28
Speaker
So I mean, I don't worry. So no, I don't want to sound like I am setting a standard that's going to be tricky for people who do struggle but no I'm i'm pretty resolute really and and again I've done this with no willpower I'm not a willpower person I really am not you know but that if there is a reason for something then absolutely for sure.
Marketing and Perceptions of Veganism's Ease
00:39:55
Speaker
What things in in the vegan sphere, in the vegan world, do you think people aren't talking about enough or difficulties or issues or challenges with the the way of living your life that way or the way that the vegan movement conducts itself? Like what do people need to talk about more, do you think? i think maybe that there might be too much emphasis on I know it seems a bit odd but people want it to be easy and it's not necessarily going to be that convenience and your conscience they don't always you know match up and the whole definition of integrity
00:40:37
Speaker
for example, is about living your values even when it is uncomfortable, not terribly convenient or whatever. That's the whole thing about integrity, isn't it? So if people are expecting this change to be easy and then it becomes not easy for them, then they think that something's wrong.
00:41:00
Speaker
And then they think maybe I'll just give up because I can't do this. But if we kind of let people know, don't expect easy, you know, because things that are really worthwhile aren't necessarily easy. Being somebody with integrity isn't easy. Being compassionate is definitely not easy.
00:41:20
Speaker
You know, the definition of compassion is meeting suffering with love. So when you meet suffering, it's easier much easier to just turn your back on it and think, oh, I don't want to watch that. I don't want to see that. I don't want to think about that because then I'll identify with it and it will make me feel bad or whatever. So to be compassionate, you have to be willing to suffer along with another person or being. So we can't make this easy, really, for people. We've just got to prepare people for the fact it might be, it might feel a bit of a struggle. But shout out to the people who are, and then when they find it easier than they expect, then great, you know?
00:42:09
Speaker
Yeah, but there's there's a world of difference there, isn't there? There's... um There's something being easier than you thought it would be. And then there's only doing something if it is easy and convenient. And as as you were speaking there, I was thinking, well, why why is it that people do want it to be easy? And i two things came to mind. One is... I think capitalism and its marketing is all driven towards solving problems, making things more convenient. So that's that's the rhetoric that we have all around us, is companies selling their products and services on the basis of,
00:42:44
Speaker
it being easy or or this is gonna make life so much easier and better for you. So I think that's one part of it. And I wonder whether the other part is a ah desperation for those of us who really want the world to be more compassionate and more vegan for want of a better phrase. And we really want that to happen as quickly as possible.
00:43:05
Speaker
So we want to lower the bar for people and say, look, you can do it, you can do it, I promise it will be a walk in the park. just because, A, we want other people to accompany us, it's it's not nice feeling lonely, but also we want to to end that suffering for animals. So we want people to get to it as quickly as possible and saying it'll be easy is is a natural way to do it, isn't it? But like you say, in integrity is the most important thing. Kind of along those lines,
00:43:32
Speaker
Do you think your your journey towards veganism and and compassionate living, do you do you think it would have been different if instead of watching that video in 1981, you watched it in 2024?
Speculating on a Modern Vegan Journey
00:43:45
Speaker
Imagine starting that journey then. I mean, you can you can either imagine yourself at your current age or imagine yourself as a 12-year-old in 2024. Would it have been different? Yeah, absolutely. And it's hard for me to imagine...
00:43:59
Speaker
And it's hard for me to imagine what life I would have led up until that point, if you see what I mean, because it's just been such a kind of inbuilt thing with me. But yeah, to try and put myself in the shoes of someone as an adult coming to this concept now and maybe testing the water veganuary and all that.
00:44:22
Speaker
It is, it's a real stretch for my mind to try and put myself in that person's shoes. Because I suppose for me, the connections are really obvious about, you know, animal abuse and slaughter and speciesism and all of that, because it's really become, you know, quite big news. And it's There's lots of films and books and things that I actually haven't read or watched because I don't feel the need particularly. Not that they're not interesting, but I kind of
00:44:58
Speaker
you know, the argument's been made for me. So I don't know. i can't get into the mind of that too easily. But I do honestly think that having been presented with the facts and seeing them, I would just have the same reaction. and Just, I want to be distanced. I want to be distanced from that as quickly as possible. And if I was coming to it later in life, I think it would even want to be faster.
00:45:28
Speaker
for me, if you know what I mean. The one thing that I have seen that I think is a really powerful piece of advocacy and there are no words to this at all, but just the trailer for that film Dominion, I think is incredible. And when I watch it, I always, you know, it it really brings up strong emotions in me. And I do think I can't be close to that. I don't want anything to do with that. I want to be as far away from that industry and that behaviour and the consumption that fuels the demand for that as is possible. So I can't, it's hard for me to imagine anybody watching that and not feeling the same. whatever age they are, whatever part, you know, that plays in their wider life or whatever. But yeah, it's it's a tough one. Potentially another tough imaginative time travel journey for you now. If you could go back to the beginning and go through it all again, would you go about
Encouragement for New Vegans and Ethical Alignment
00:46:34
Speaker
anything differently? I would become 100% vegan, for want of a better word, at the age of zero.
00:46:43
Speaker
LAUGHTER I would absolutely, as soon as I could make my own choices about what i was wearing, eating, buying, getting bought for me, any of those things, they would have to be things that did not support violence against animals. Nice and straightforward. last Last question then, Julie. There'll be people listening to this now who are on the precipice of veganism or they've decided to give it a go.
00:47:15
Speaker
or they're wondering whether they should, or maybe maybe they've they've been trying it for a little while and it's starting to become part of their identity. what What would you say to people in that position? You've got a lot of happiness coming your way. If nothing else in any day that you spend where you are not buying into that industry and those forms of cruelty, you are contributing so positively to the world. It's something to be happy about at the saddest times. So it's something to be celebrated about yourself every day that you manage to do it and who would not want that. So it's ah just a brilliant thing.
00:47:58
Speaker
It really is. It will bring you peace of mind. There is nothing better than having a belief and having your actions line up and just getting ah rid of all the cognitive dissonance that comes from being duped into supporting something that clearly isn't, you know, in line with your own values. So shout out to the people making the change.
00:48:27
Speaker
Huge vegan love for all of that. And it it you will get there, absolutely. And you will not regret it. And you will very likely just think, not that there's any value and you can't change the past, but you'll think, I'm glad I'm doing this now. And, you know, I wouldn't have liked to have left this any later than I have. Amazing.
00:48:51
Speaker
Julie, thank you so very much. Thank you.
00:49:04
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplatt.com.
00:49:19
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:49:45
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course,
00:50:06
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:50:21
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.