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"Thief Of Joy" ACN Pod 108
79 Plays1 year ago
We react to the news that Deano/Deanie/Deansgate has left the club and we're in our second managerial search in as many years. Who's next, who don't we want, what the hell's going on out there?
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Transcript
Introduction & Managerial Change Discussion
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Knowledge podcast, a hastily arranged podcast to get a handle on the fact that it's finally happened. The epitome of, I'm sure he's a nice bloke, but has been harvested from the managerial field. Edie and John join me to discuss where next. John, last night was painful and it kind of felt like your old buddy Tom was going to be proved right.
00:00:47
Speaker
Hang on, you were going to be proved right. Yeah, I called it last last podcast. I said he may well be that he's already going to be let go. And then we find out after the next game. Yeah, no, I think they made the decision, didn't they? On the basis of last night, that was the first half.
00:01:01
Speaker
Genuinely, I thought was our worst 45 minutes of the season and that bar is extremely low. So the fact that we managed to limbo under it is ridiculous.
Team Strategy & Management Critique
00:01:12
Speaker
We were so disjointed. I mean, I've heard that we went to match Luton up and that's fine, but why should we ever be bothered with what Luton are employing in terms of formation when we've got the individuals that we have at the football club?
00:01:26
Speaker
It just screamed of panic, it screamed of this is the last throw of the dice, and it was.
00:01:33
Speaker
It was quite sad at the end. He kind of looked like a real beaten man and he'd given some of the quotes to Michael Bailey and I think, you know, I'm paraphrasing obviously, but he said something along the lines of, this is your hardest time in your managerial career. And he kind of went, yup. And then is it the hardest time in the whole of your football career? And just candidly, yep. He just felt, oh God, that is a man that needed to be put out of his misery.
00:01:57
Speaker
I didn't think the longer it went on today, the more I feared that we weren't going to do it, and Friday was going to be properly horrible if Blackburn wasn't horrible enough. But we have. It's the right move. We move on. I don't want the club to panic and do something daft and get someone in who might not be the right fit, because look, we did that last time.
00:02:24
Speaker
But at the same time, this season is getting away from us, isn't it? So it, you know, it has to be, I don't know, more haste, less speed, whatever it is, but it's, it's really, we shouldn't celebrate anyone losing their job, especially this time of year, but it's definitely the right outcome for, for Norwich City Football Club.
00:02:42
Speaker
Well, I prefaced the pod with it that, you know, he he's really more than most, I think he benefited from he's a nice bloke, but and, you know, I certainly felt the need to say that for every time we've asked for a change. The issue with the last night's performance performance doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence was that the players more than ever to me sound looked
00:03:11
Speaker
and had the air of a bunch of players who either don't understand the message, are tired of implementing the message, don't know what the message is.
Fan Influence & Club Decisions
00:03:20
Speaker
They really did look like a bunch of people who had just sort of turned up with their boots and shinies and asked for a game. There really didn't seem to be any kind of
00:03:30
Speaker
you know, nicely tied together movement. And when the away fans who are obviously going to be, they tend to be a distilled, you know, they're the stock, if you like. And this time of year, lots of people are reducing down stock and making turkey soup and all the rest of it. They are the kind of purest of the pure. If they are too, you know, it sounded from the effects mics, you know, we had some ACN correspondence there, but I wasn't personally there.
00:03:57
Speaker
From the effects of mics on Sky, it certainly sounded like it was seven out of 10 were singing quite loudly for the manager to go. There's nowhere to go, is there really? Really? From that? I mean, he said in his press conference, you know, I've turned around from here before and you think, well, you haven't. No manager has.
00:04:14
Speaker
Also, how are you going to turn it around if every time you've said stuff it's just insane? How do you expect it? How do you expect to get people to stop singing songs?
00:04:35
Speaker
that are not very complimentary about you, when you then grab the mic and then just sort of, I don't know, cut a diss track on a weekly basis about how, you know, we should just
00:04:52
Speaker
I don't know, are fans magical? I don't think fans, I think it's quite useful when fans do support and then that leads to potentially better results, but I don't think, like they're not Dementors. We can't sabotage a whole career arc. It's just the weirdest thing. It's like a CEO going, hi everyone, we've had a tough quarter, but you're all a bunch of lazy shits and it's just never going to work.
00:05:21
Speaker
And it's part and parcel of management to the point where it's in all those computer games. So even people that haven't done it for a living know this stuff. It's 101. So that's where I'm slightly puzzled. This is like clearly a man with such a profound lack of imagination that he has no idea what to do when people might be slightly critical of a lackluster showing.
00:05:49
Speaker
That is the one thing that I really wanted to make sure we covered though Edie with regards to the whole it being fans fault Mike my massive concern is that this is being Perceived by the people running the club Like BK8
00:06:10
Speaker
You know, is Web of viewing this as, I've now lost more money from my transfer budget because I'm having to pay off a manager and find wages for another manager because of them blooming fans not accepting what we're putting out there. I wonder if, do you think, John, there's any chance that Web has crossed these hands being forced by the fans?
00:06:35
Speaker
So Weber was quite clear, wasn't he, that it was a vocal minority on Twitter that piped up and then made sure that the BK8 deal was quashed. I don't, for any stretch of the imagination, think that that was true. And I think, you know, large swathes of our fan base for very good reasons that we covered on this podcast were wholesale against it.
00:06:55
Speaker
there's no way he can think that that's a vocal minority, not judging by the amount of supporters that turned at home against Blackburn and the amount of supporters, as you've just said, that we heard on television. But also, we can slate Stuart Weber, we can talk about whether there's more of a pervasive culture at the football club, which means that there's more introspection and they're ignoring the noise and all of the rest of it. But
00:07:24
Speaker
We know, and we have spoken to him, and lots of people have spoken to Stuart Weber, he knows football, he knows what's going on in front of his eyes, and he's got his coaching badges, he's got a UA for a
Club Management & Future Planning
00:07:34
Speaker
pro A license, I think. This man knows how football works and what needs to happen and when it needs to happen.
00:07:41
Speaker
And the fact that people are almost saying, oh, well, you know, Webber, not Sacking Smith will be him flicking the V's at the fans because, you know, this is almost his final hurrah. I just couldn't buy. And the reason I say that is because I think this is this is shit. Webber's legacy like this is.
00:07:57
Speaker
Again, we kind of talked about the fact that his legacy might be judged on the Dean Smith appointment. His legacy is definitely going to be judged on the next appointment because if he gets this one wrong, it has to be the end of him at this football club and it's the end of something
00:08:13
Speaker
really great that he built, you know, and Maddie McKenzie has written a absolutely brilliant piece that's gone live on the Oncoming Knowledge website, probably about three hours ago, was it Edie? Something like that. You popped it up. Two hours ago, cheers. Which talked about this and talked about the fact it's only been four years, almost to the day, since we, you know, there was that three-nil comeback draw against Nottingham Forest and how we felt like
00:08:40
Speaker
anything was possible at that point and we were riding the crest of a wave and it was all about building the momentum and but actually we were all together and that's what the club needs to recognize now is fuck what's gone on in the past like it doesn't matter what i don't know we said you know on this podcast or archen said on the front page of their newspapers or
00:09:02
Speaker
I don't know. Any other journalists might have said about any other manager or sporting director at this football club. They need us all in the same boat now. They need us all on the journey. They need us to be together with them. And I think they'll get that on Friday. I think they'll get that at Carrow Road because you always get that after a manager has gone. There's almost this sense of renewal, sense of maybe people might now renew their season ticket as well based off this. So I think
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think there is something worrying and it wasn't just Dean Smith, but I think that let's be frank, the whole brilliance of... Don't mention that name when we're in the moment of the manager. No, that's definitely not on the bookies list. Let's not be frank. Yeah, but the whole brilliance of what we did
00:09:51
Speaker
was faced you know kind of you know the figurehead for that was Daniel Farka and the charm offensive that he did with the fans and the media and obviously there was a brand of football as well but actually we need to be talked to again now we need
00:10:07
Speaker
just need to know what the plan is and you know I don't I genuinely don't care right if if Stuart Weber came out and said you know we're gonna be way more pragmatic because we think that can get us out of the championship with this squad and you might not like it as much actually it's gonna be much better and fit for purpose in the Premier League
00:10:23
Speaker
I might not agree with that, but I'll get on board with it and that they need to talk to us now. They need to tell us what they're doing. They need to tell us what they're thinking. And I just hope that this is a watershed moment and they start doing that and they ditch this almost
00:10:38
Speaker
I don't know. Dean Smith's culture possibly was part of it, like this kind of lads, lads, lads culture. And I say this because Dean Smith had a nickname for everyone. And, you know, I mean, Shaky, AJ, Nacho, he's just chucking them out. Every press conference was just this weird like, oh, look, it's me and the boys against the world. That has to stop now. And we need to get on with doing the serious business of putting a football club together again.
00:11:03
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I haven't got any proper nicknames, Punnalicious, but the two things that I would bring, I want to bring up that John has just said. Firstly, on the Web side of things to not make the change before the World Cup and then make it after two performances that are almost well, three, three performances, really, that are almost identical straight after the World Cup. And then we basically have your hand forced.
00:11:30
Speaker
that now, Shirley, from Weber's point of view, looks like a really bad miscalculation to have given, to have not taken that time at your leisure. They could have taken four weeks before even appointing someone, and they still would have had a week with the lads before the AJ and Nacho and all the other nicknames. So on the one side of things, personally, I think that looks
00:11:54
Speaker
bad from Webber's point of view. He's almost had to admit that I was wrong, I should have let him go earlier. And the second thing is, do you think that what Ponce just said about it doesn't matter if it's a more direct style of football, if that's what we're told, or if it's more agricultural and we'll come to candidates in a minute, would we not, as the fans that have said your football is excrement, would we not be
00:12:20
Speaker
proving Dean right that actually it's just personal. He said in his press conference last night after the looting game, you know, I can't help where I come from, I can't help my accent. I can't hear what I look like, I can't help my accent. I don't really remember anyone having an issue with your accent or what you look like. Farka hardly spoke with a pure Norfolk lilt. I'm not sure that was ever sung from the terraces.
00:12:44
Speaker
He's clearly made it and feels and I totally get why you'd feel very personal if someone's singing your name and saying you're rubbish at your job. But on that side of things, if we then are accepting of agricultural football, don't we then seem like, well, what were you complaining about with Smith?
00:13:03
Speaker
do you not think it's a bit weird to come to Norfolk and accuse people of having a go at you for your accent and appearance? Like no one in this county has a leg to stand on and that's why we're so nice to each other. That's why I failed to sort of comprehend how he came up with that. I thought that was a real magnifico though that he sort of
00:13:25
Speaker
said that to me that was so clearly that oh wow you are seeing this as it's you against Norfolk and the people rather than you know honestly mate you genuinely seem lovely you just don't seem to fit your football doesn't fit I don't like what you're producing for the money I pay I don't care if you speak purely in Peruvian
00:13:49
Speaker
I think there, I mean, there's such a thing in a workplace as too much support, which is, I think this is what's happened here in that he's had too much support in that he hasn't had any constructive criticism from his end, clearly, he's had a death of, like,
00:14:07
Speaker
of steering seemingly and I think what he has had is don't worry mate they're all up you know what they're like they're all up against you they're us against them like you know the usual but that's where this kind of zoning on personal details I think it's just like that doesn't come from anywhere unless you've already been talked into a place where a victimhood
00:14:28
Speaker
But I think because of said lack of imagination, Mr. Smith was saying the quiet bits out loud. He,
Managerial Candidates & Financial Concerns
00:14:39
Speaker
I don't think, was suited for politics and the politics of the situation because I don't think he had the wiles and the wit
00:14:51
Speaker
to actually translate what he was hearing into a public way of saying things and I think it caused catastrophe. As Maddie has pointed out in her article, it's really ridiculously unusual for any football manager to say the things that were said and come out of it seemingly with no repercussions.
00:15:14
Speaker
So that's where it feels a little bit to me like there's a second game going on. We don't know what the game is. We don't know what the rules are. We don't know what the goals are. But in terms of the timing of everything that's happened, I would not be surprised if there's all sorts of like, it's got to be something around the business side of things with obviously like our new American pals and things like that.
00:15:40
Speaker
I've no idea what is going on but the weird timing just makes it feel like this is less to do with football than we'd like. Do you think there is any chance coming on to runners and riders that we get an American coach or a coach that has been very successful in America or do you think it's too early and the stake currently owned is too small for that to be on the radar?
00:16:04
Speaker
I don't think that would be anywhere near our radar, would it? And I think that everything that we've read about the Atanasios thus far has been that they will trust.
00:16:16
Speaker
they will put their trust in, much like Delia and Michael, they will put their trust in who they choose to run their football club to make the right decisions. And they may bring a blending of strategies with what the Milwaukee Brewers do, but I think that will be much more around the commercial aspects of the football club and maybe some data insights and that kind of stuff. But I actually think they're going to say, right, you know your football,
00:16:40
Speaker
go and pick your head coach and we're not going to interfere in that. And I just hope, I mean, look, I said about it in the last podcast that the Dean Smith slash Frank Lampard slash whoever else it was that we were courting for the last head coach appointment.
00:16:57
Speaker
that reeked off. We now want to behave like a Crystal Palace or a Brighton or a Burnley before they were relegated or a Southampton. We want to act like a Premier League club that has serious aspirations of finishing 12th next season or whatever.
00:17:12
Speaker
I think we need to stop acting like that. We need to start acting like Norrie Titty Football Club again and actually appoint a manager who fits in with our ethos and our values and what we want as a football club. I don't know how many of the runners and riders fit into that. I have just looked at the bookie shortlist.
00:17:32
Speaker
Maybe a couple that, you know, might just get me slightly excited. Who am I missing from this list? Scott Parker, Hassan Hootle, Diesh Robbins, Martin Wilder, Gerard Ishmael. Knudsen. Knudsen. I'm missing anyone else? I'm sure there will be lots.
00:17:54
Speaker
No, but I mean, am I missing any that you think could seriously be considered? That we know of again, bearing in mind that it... Yeah. Did you say Mark Robbins? Yeah, I did, yeah. There's a huge possibility that it is an unknown.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is a really huge possibility that is an unknown. Yeah, yeah, of course. In coaching circles, hopefully you'd think it's someone that has been on the radar for... Well, almost for me, almost a dream is, here is Bobby Bobson. Didn't want to go with a random thing that didn't sound anger sized. Do you mean Dax and Bob Nut?
00:18:26
Speaker
Dax and Bob Nutt, or Willie Wingnutt. And as soon as it's a point, and maybe they've been assistant coach, really, really successful at Ajax or Porto or whatever, and basically at the point of it being announced, all of a sudden
00:18:43
Speaker
the football journalists that you follow for Insight and are interested, and you've always read interesting articles for, start saying, oh, that's an interesting call. I didn't think he considered or she had considered being a head coach before, but oh, wow, coaching credentials are this, this, this. These players got better. The players that are now in the Premier League were all coached by this person, blah, blah, blah. Like that, that to me is the absolute perfect move and the sort of one that
00:19:08
Speaker
when we fell in love with Webbers, the Webolution, that was the sort of pick that we thought, we're always going to get managers like this. This is what Webber does. He finds someone that is not on the radar of the masses, but comes with, and isn't proven, but comes with a good
00:19:26
Speaker
Kind of rap sheet that would suggest actually that really does make sense why that would work that for me would make me the most excited what someone I've never heard of and Basically as soon as it happens people I respect in football
00:19:41
Speaker
uh basically tell me this is why you're an idiot for not having heard of them um so that's that's the one thing i mean some of those some of those names you have to bear in mind the compensation side of things you know i just i can't i personally cannot see us taking anyone who has got any compensation in their contract and that's one of the reasons i suggested perhaps someone on the coaching staff who isn't currently a head coach
00:20:07
Speaker
you know, because maybe there's a loophole there where they don't happen to have the same compensation factor in that they had coached us. Because I just like I can't I can't see looking at how broke we are and how much of a gamble it would be to to make up either make up 12 points or to gamble in the playoffs, which is obviously, you know, two bad refereeing decisions. You can do nothing about away from, you know, however brilliant you are, how good the manager is. There's nothing you can do. You're out. That's the end of that.
00:20:36
Speaker
So I don't know. I can't I can't consider seriously any candidate that is currently in work. Do you think that there is any chance that you do that there's money down the back of the sofa? Maybe that's something that Attanasio helps us out with.
00:20:51
Speaker
That's potentially a thing, but I just think it's important this time around that I think one of the reasons behind this whole debacle is that we're slightly the victim of somebody who feels like we were a compensation prize or a step down or that kind of wounded pride thing. I think we were basically subjected to somebody's wounded pride.
00:21:15
Speaker
for quite some time. It'd be nice to have someone with some aspiration and some hunger. If there is money then awesome, but like what if there was bonuses to do with better performance as opposed to bonuses that reward showing up?
00:21:36
Speaker
I don't know. Well, bonus for showing up to wage, isn't it? Basically.
Player Performance & Coaching Methods
00:21:40
Speaker
Well, no, I mean, you know, like the whole Billy Gilmour thing, like just just the ridiculousness of just wasting whatever was happening there, because clearly there was some sort of if he doesn't get played X times, then it's X amount more. That's all coming out in a book or a podcast or interview in a couple of years time from someone, isn't it? I mean, you just
00:22:00
Speaker
you cannot put the pieces together and make the jigsaw there. There's a couple of things that, either it's a business agreement, a contractual thing, there was something going, you know, new pictures of Smith. That's in your head now. But another game, another game happening that we don't know about.
00:22:18
Speaker
There's so much talk that has nothing to do with performance. Dean Smith going, oh, how do I, you know, oh, you know, I'm doing all right, I think. I believe that I'm good. And it's like, well, every week there are results that will let you know how well you're performing. It's quite simple.
00:22:34
Speaker
I mean, you mentioned Wounded Pride there. I actually think from a fan base point of view, to loop back to what Pun said at the start of the conversation, I think some of the animosity from the fans is that Wounded Pride as well. I say we used to be like it went on for years. It was a three and a bit year sort of run with a, maybe you call it a four and a bit year run with about six months of misery.
00:23:02
Speaker
But for the huge majority of that, we were really proud of our team because we played football in a way that we knew that even those that hated us knew deep down, you'd love to be part of this. You would love to be bouncing on a Saturday like we are. You would love to play the football we play. You would love to have the unsung heroes, the chip on the shoulder.
00:23:23
Speaker
Team to root like that that is what everything is great about football. We're not doing it with loads of money You know, we couldn't be knocked by anyone, you know, we hadn't spent our way to success or any of that stuff it was what a fantastic project to be involved in and I do I think there is an element of
00:23:40
Speaker
We now feel like also Rans, where we've spent money and it hasn't done any good. We've kind of left behind the characteristics. And part of me wishes that Farka hadn't abandoned his principles almost, because you almost feel like, even he would have been sacked if it didn't work.
00:24:03
Speaker
Either way, if he didn't get the results in the Premier League, but I just feel like from the point where he stopped playing FARC ball. We've as a fan base of sort of that. That's almost where the disconnect started. We're just like, well, hang on. You told us that we were always going to play the same way. And that was what we were bought into. And you told us whoever the coach was, we were going to play the same way. And now the coach, the coach is the same. And we've stopped playing that way. And they even placed us with another guy who keeps telling us that we're wrong and keeps telling us that actually we've got the most shots. We've had the most assists.
00:24:33
Speaker
and so what was key to the commentary last night was um your boy Mick McCarthy at the start of the game had I get the impression he might have seen one maybe two Norwich games maybe that he's covered
00:24:49
Speaker
clearly hasn't watched a lot of Norwich because he was reading he sounded like a Dean Smith press conference he was reading out our possession stats and so yeah they seem pretty disgruntled and that's a bit harsh on Dean and if something early doesn't happen for him then they'll turn on Dean and poor old Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean
00:25:03
Speaker
We're mates, we're mates. And then after about half an hour, he was going, quite an origin terror, weren't they? Why can't they string two passes together? You know, all they've had is that one shot, which was from miles and miles away. And then in the press conference afterwards, that shot from Sara, which you shouldn't really have taken on, and Pookie, by the way, was crossed across and turned around and shouted at him for taking on such a long shot.
00:25:28
Speaker
Dean Smith read that out as there are a couple of great chances. No, it wasn't. He's kind of bigging up of distant shots on goal that don't trouble the goalkeeper, or very much. He is so cup half full over his team's output.
00:25:45
Speaker
that took it to your point Edie, it's unhelpful if no one else at the club is saying Dean mate these chances are crap. By all means if you want to gee up the players after a defeat say that in there to say now come on you created some stuff boys we weren't that far away etc if you need to say that fine but to publicly come out and make out like Norwich are effectively saying we want the second third best team in the league we're really not
00:26:11
Speaker
And what he needs to be doing as well, I mean, well, I say needs to be doing, that's not a thing now, but you just see in when he was going, oh, the abuse the lads are getting, oh, it's terrible. And nobody said a word against them. It's all been to him. It just shows really that he's just sort of
00:26:30
Speaker
filtering what he's being told. Yeah. Well, I said this on the last podcast. He's applying it himself. Yeah. My biggest, my biggest concern with leaving it too long was that he, he basically said what I've just said to the lads in there is talking about how he knows us against them and they're getting, they're getting pelters and no, they're not.
00:26:48
Speaker
I appreciate that it could seem, I think this is one of the points that McDennis made, that Gibson might feel like they're getting on his back if he's passing back to Gunn. But in the same game, they were singing Gunn's name lots. They sang Gunn's name loads last night. They sang Pokey's name after the goal and there was chants of USA, at times there was O'Nell's song. There's been loads of player encouragement.
00:27:11
Speaker
Maybe we'd sing songs about Nunes if he was ever on the pitch. Maybe we'd sing songs about Campbell if he was ever anywhere near the squad. I mean, the guy has had so many opportunities to try and curry faith with the fans, to go on national radio and say, I know it's important, but I'm not Daniel.
00:27:32
Speaker
You've accepted that it's important. You then have had to reluctantly answer questions about it. But you don't put the local boy in who's creative.
00:27:42
Speaker
you don't put Nunez in and say, even if you don't rate the lad, you put him in because you go, look, I'm trying to be more creative. You know, you have a weird sort of three centre backs, three centre, there's not often you have three centre backs and three centre forwards in the same 11 at any point. Well, that was my worry is that for the last two games, the tactic has been just throw on as many forwards as we can, and none of them really, let's be fair, had any kind of creative element to them or, you know, we're going to play a slide rule pass or
00:28:10
Speaker
or, you know, say to Pookie, get on the shoulder, because I'll find you. It was Ben Gibson that found Pookie, you know, kind of playing on the shoulder and it will brilliant ball. Yeah. And he's one of Ben Gibson's strengths, but he shouldn't have to step into midfield and do that. You're quite right. You know, why isn't.
00:28:26
Speaker
Why aren't the likes of Marcelino Nunez or Todd Campbell in the team to do that? Well, yes, and you know that I'm a Dal fanboy. Todd, look, something's happening. He's either out in January and this is just a holding pattern until that's the case or he's done something again to suggest that his head's not in the right place because
00:28:50
Speaker
It's just a whole other level of weirdness. Has anyone said be in the right place during this? Yeah, I get that. But at the same time, my point is, if you are a manager, the automatic compensation of having your whole contract paid out that all managers have,
00:29:09
Speaker
is probably the reason Todd Cantwell isn't in the team. Nunez isn't in the team. Because effectively, if you look at it like this, Smith goes, I don't want to get the sack because I like coaching football. He's probably his hobby as well as his career. So he wants to keep the job as long as he can. But at the same time, he's not going to go against whatever the
00:29:30
Speaker
goodness principles he has and basically throw us a bone in terms of give us a number 10 or two, give us try and create some creativity and bring in a camp well or whatever or if there has been a spat or whatever and it isn't just that he's tired or whatever crap we've been given then he hasn't managed to find a way of bringing Todd back into the fold because actually if you get Todd playing
Motivation & Managerial Interviews
00:29:55
Speaker
He could win the league for us. He could be. He hasn't got any ceiling, I don't think, in terms of technical ability. I don't think anyone would argue that. But again, we've said this time and time again in the Smith era, in both the Premier League and the Championship, particularly clear in the Championship, we have seen most of this squad rip this league apart.
00:30:15
Speaker
And none of them have got, I mean, I would include Pookie in this. None of them have got older to the extent where you go, yeah, but he's 37. Do you know what I mean? Pookie's game wasn't based on blistering pace. No one's got shorter. No one can't control the ball anymore. It's not walking football. There's not a bell in the ball. It's the same players playing the same positions mostly.
00:30:39
Speaker
And so where do you look? You can only look at the coaching staff. When that many players have regressed, it starts to look into application which plays a huge enthusiasm and motivation and has a huge connection with decision making. Because if you are motivated to follow through the message that's being given to you, you are more likely to make the decision that you think your superior forward slash line manager forward slash football coach wants you to do because you believe the outcomes will come.
00:31:03
Speaker
And too often you see players making increased mistakes and those mistakes get reduced when there is a new messaging that is actually bought into and believed. We need a motivational coach, a coach who clearly knows how to get a tune out of players. We also need someone who knows how to beat a low block. If they can't demonstrate that in an interview with the higher ups, if they can't demonstrate how will you progress the ball up the pitch,
00:31:32
Speaker
You know, to weber, presumably, we'll ask football-y sorts of questions like this. Is that genuinely a thing that you think that these interviews happen and they ask questions like normal job interviews? Because I've always just been of the assumption that people get headhunted and they can see a coach's style of football and it's just like, all right, I want you, let's sit down and have a chat. OK, OK, so they might not ask the question.
00:31:55
Speaker
they might not answer the question and get they might not have dealing with Michael and Mark Atanasio in like a in like the dome. Can you give me an example when like you know I just can't imagine that getting asked in a job when you felt with conflicting deadlines but the point is like I do think that it may well be that part of the interview yes is done on web or watching tape and can basically see oh okay we've just played x team we couldn't get through their press
00:32:22
Speaker
Let's see this same coach play that team if it was someone from the champion, like a Robins or whatever. Or Wilder to a certain degree. Well Wilder's result is get someone to run down the wing very fastly with it or just kick it. No, no, he's tactically, you're not giving him enough credit mate there. I don't think. Talk to the fans of the club he was just at.
00:32:45
Speaker
I'll talk to Sheffield United fans and I think they're extremely complimentary about his tactical now. They can't string a sentence together, can they? I'm sure all the Blades fans that listen to us will now be absolutely apoplectic. If I found out that one Blades fan listens to the podcast, I'd end it easily. So, right, Edie, I would like a concise, succinct answer to the following question.
00:33:10
Speaker
I would like a guarantee, because as you know, we don't do predictions on this podcast. We only do guarantees. Please guarantee who the next Norris City manager is and when he or she or they will be appointed.
00:33:20
Speaker
I can't do that because I want it to be someone I've never heard of. Well, that's fine. I will accept and never heard of, but you will need to give me some kind of background as to why you haven't heard of them. We haven't heard of them because they're completely left field. They deal with just complete and utter madness, but in a way that actually translates to a collective
00:33:46
Speaker
direction being assumed. They are completely clear about what it is that they want to see and completely clear about indicating to their team how the team must go about delivering it. There is none of this
00:34:04
Speaker
Simple man gets the benefit of the doubt, nonsense anymore, there must be proof and data. However, it's creative and it has imagination and it is probably just weird enough
00:34:22
Speaker
That's what we need. And probably, yeah, someone who English is not their first language. And so they can unite all of our players who don't have English as a first language in a kind of camaraderie of, you know, let's do some, let's jump off the edge of a swimming pool with an inflatable unicorn kind of bonding, which we know works out pretty well.
00:34:46
Speaker
The more I listened to that, apart from the start and end of it, I was thinking Marcelo Bielsa. I was thinking Bielsa as well, which we can't afford. No, we definitely can't afford his wages, but all of the bits that you said in the middle, Edie, I was like, yeah, Bielsa would do that. Well, I was just thinking anything like that lends itself to another set of all the
00:35:10
Speaker
I now can't think of a two syllable country. What's the two syllable thing that's the same as Germans? It's hard on the spot. Austria? Well, that's three, but it's the same as Germans. Or you're thinking Sweden? What do you want? Holland? They hate the Germans.
00:35:26
Speaker
Well, no, because you can't sing all the Hollands. You can't sing all the Sweden. John, all the Belgians. I want a Belgian page. All the Belgians, so many Belgians. I mean, you know, I'm just thinking it's another. That's your first. Your first go to is song lyrics and meter and merch. Is that what you're saying? Well, he was just thinking past before. Why do you think I asked so many questions? I'm sure I'm sure the less I speak, the more credence our podcast has. And come on, what is your mate? You talk for half the podcast.
00:35:55
Speaker
We've got guarantees from ED. ED's put the money where the Mullen is. Come on, your turn. Okay, there's what I would like and then there's what I think might happen. I think there might be a hybrid of the two that we could settle on. So what I want is a left field pick. I think
00:36:18
Speaker
Knudsen is still left field enough and the fact that his football sounds like high press, high energy, which is, look, we were told they were the players that we were recruiting this summer were the ones to deploy that particular strategy. He might be someone who we could get in relatively cheaply because, let's be honest, he's at a Norwegian club. His contract shouldn't be as such that he's on massive wages. So I think he's gettable.
00:36:46
Speaker
Why is he not left already? If he's so brilliant and his name comes up, why is someone else not gone and got him? He's been touted. Maybe he's happy where he is. Maybe he just loves life. There might be a bit of that. Why is he going to come then if he's so happy? Because Alex Tettie is going to have a word with him and tell him how brilliant Norwich is. As his compatriot, he's just going to say, look, Kitchill, I think that's how you say his first name.
00:37:09
Speaker
That's the one. I don't think that will happen. So if you're looking for guarantees, I think the hybrid of that, and this would potentially have been my second choice, it would still fit into the Weber mold of, oh, let's kind of act like we're a Premier League football club, and that would be Haas and Hootle. Purely because, one, I think his teams always look like they have a plan, but two,
00:37:35
Speaker
teams tend to go on runs so they're they're really sketchy in terms of like maybe losing six in a row and then winning like nine in a row winning a really good run now to get us out of this shite so i think he's someone who teams always look like they've got a plan i think they do under harsh noodle
00:37:54
Speaker
I think having I mean I'm just again and I haven't really focused on I haven't really focused on on that because I haven't been thinking that we might get a Ralph team anytime soon but I've always had the impression with his Southampton kind of era was because of the streaky element of it that if things go well they win if things don't go that's what I mean I can't I couldn't describe to you
00:38:18
Speaker
Hassan Hootle football in the same way that I could describe Tugray and Potter. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, it isn't largely possession based, but there's quite a lot of energy and thought behind it, I think. And that's where I think it might chime with Norwich. And actually, he's worked with a director of football and that seems to have, you know, up until... It works well enough for a period of seasons.
Systemic Issues & Transparency Demands
00:38:39
Speaker
I think that's the thing. He has enough of a body of work to go, all right, he could be worth a punt.
00:38:45
Speaker
And he might be available from a, actually, I want to get back to football very quickly. He's had enough of a break. Longer than a week. Do you, though, think there is room and oxygen enough for everything we've spoken about?
00:39:03
Speaker
current circumstances though. Do you genuinely think like someone else could come in and do a good job or do you think like I'm really genuinely worried that like what we're actually seeing is
00:39:16
Speaker
a whole organization that is very, very bad at periods of losing to the point where it just goes into a death spiral. Well, there does seem to be... Look, we're friends with people who create content professionally, not like this. Are we? Not like this nonsense. He says we because he knows all the important people.
00:39:39
Speaker
No, I was referring to you and I, having some people tell us things that are along the lines of the way the club is dealing with them alludes to this. It's more than just that I wrote this one thing or I said that one thing on the podcast, if you see what I mean, or I said this one thing in my article or put this one thing on the front of my paper. You know, we've had you know, we've had Connor a couple of times recently talk about the fact that
00:40:08
Speaker
They have tried to move forward. Excuse me. They've tried to move forward. They've tried to.
00:40:14
Speaker
and organize a Thor ring and all the rest of it. And it doesn't necessarily seem like that is the only problem that like to your point, things seem to run a bit deeper in terms of problems. And there seems to be in some of the articles around there being a wider problem at the football club. And I think we will hate to hear that. And part of that, again, is just the fact that we haven't really heard much about
00:40:38
Speaker
the off-the-field direction as much as we have in recent four or five years. Like the at-and-at-the-o thing, there was some stuff around that. But that's what I mean. So that's what I'm trying to say about communicating a plan. If they come out and they communicate. And I don't necessarily want to watch shite football. I think I'll clarify my comments. I want to watch effective football.
00:41:03
Speaker
and I'm talking more like you know Paul Lambert days where we could go front to back quite quickly and we could be more direct but actually we could still pass the ball and we had technicians in our team and you know we were largely similar under Alex Neil weren't we we played some really good football but you know we could do the the nasty stuff and we could you know battle it out with any team I just but what I want is for someone from the football club to front up and just say
00:41:28
Speaker
This is the current trajectory. This is the current plan. This is what you can expect in the next two seasons, 18 months, five years, whatever it might be. We've had none of it for some time. And you can do choreographed YouTube videos, which generally land quite badly anyway.
00:41:44
Speaker
Fuck me, where is the scrutiny? We need proper journalists and that can include fan media or it doesn't have to include professional media outlets, but we need proper scrutiny on the people that are coming out and are making noises about what's going to happen because it doesn't feel like they're talking to fans in an educated way where their message is going to land in the way that they think that it might land.
00:42:12
Speaker
Looking at the runners and riders from a betting point of view, there are very few that would, would really get me excited. So the shortest odds is Scott Parker. I can't see that he would want to, to take the job. Um, because I don't think unless, unless there was some American investment around the corner in January that they're keeping quiet. And maybe that's why they thought they could keep.
00:42:38
Speaker
keep limping until January because don't worry Dean you're going to get some new players in January kind of thing. Unless he was told that I can't see him coming. You know you then got Russ who I think with the way that the toxic atmosphere between players and
00:42:54
Speaker
between fans and the staff at the moment now is not the time that I think would be sensible for someone who there is still a section of the fan base that have crossed with a couple of back passes because they're idiots. Sean Dyche, I just can't sign up for Sean Dyche. I completely accept that Sean Dyche might get Norwich promoted. I completely accept that Sean Dyche might keep Norwich up once.
00:43:20
Speaker
No, thanks. I mean, I might fall for the wins and like you say, the effective football and maybe I can grow to love that and I'll do my best if he is appointed.
00:43:30
Speaker
But my goodness me, that's a that's a hell of a change. And again, you'd have to go back to Weber and say, sorry, we're going to what? We're going to have the same style of football with the coaches. And you dice it within one manager change. We're now to dice. And that's why they have to communicate. There's been a rip up of the of the rulebook because there has hasn't their Faka ditches plan. And then they brought in Smith, who was way more pragmatic than peak Faka. There's definitely been a ripping up of of what the strategy is. They just haven't told us.
00:43:59
Speaker
And they either don't know what it is anymore, and they're floundering, which is highly possible, or they're just choosing not to tell us. And neither of those things are any good to anyone.
00:44:11
Speaker
How would you feel about Robin's ED? Because I think it would be different for him. So he's eight to one at the moment. You think about, so he's only like fourth or fifth favorite at the moment. You would think from a compensation point of view, you might be able to get him because Coventry's in such a sorry state off the field.
00:44:36
Speaker
So maybe they haven't checked the contract properly. And also, I wonder if the fact that he's not had the resources before that he would have with Norwich, maybe he would be able to kick on another gear. So that's why he might be really willing to come. Can I just say one thing about Mark Robbins? And I can't remember if I've said it on this podcast before.
00:45:00
Speaker
But my favorite fact about Mark Robbins is he gave an interview to, when he was playing for Norwich, he gave an interview to Shoot Magazine, for those of you that will remember Shoot Magazine back in the day. And in it, he was asked, he was asked,
00:45:14
Speaker
Who is your hero? And he answered it with John Major. Now, that either says that he's a massive Tory and very weird that his hero is the current prime minister or that he's an absolute evil genius. And he was trying to freak out a number of 12 year old boys who bought shoot magazine. So I don't know, you know, like I might have issues with either. Sorry, Edie, I'll throw it to you now and you can tell me what you think about Robin's.
00:45:43
Speaker
I don't think we should have, I think we are run by a bunch of people who cannot take their eyes off their peers and their colleagues and the wider network of British football. I just don't think anyone should come from
00:46:00
Speaker
British football or Scottish football or Welsh football. But you know what I mean. It's like the comparison is the thief of joy and there has to be an end to comparison. It's like they've got to do the equivalent of deleting their Instagram apps so that their mental health can recover.
00:46:20
Speaker
Like, I don't want there to be any more of this kind of, oh, but you did this here and you did that there and you have not had a particularly good season at Coventry. And then are you going to have a season here? I don't want to actually have any mirrors other than mirrors held up to the town of Norwich to focus on the city of Norwich. But, you know, it needs to
00:46:50
Speaker
there needs to be a focus on us rather than constantly staring at other clubs and looking at what they do and how they do it and why it's okay that we can do it if so and so does it. And it just doesn't feel confident or creative. It just it just feels like it just almost like a kind of haunted club haunted by hundreds of other football professionals
00:47:19
Speaker
So this is why I'm just absolutely fixated on somebody coming in from outside that world who can just basically start with a blank slate. That's a good point. Do things the way they want to do it and stop making comparisons. That's a really good point. It's crippled us.
00:47:37
Speaker
Diesch is going to come with a they hated my previous set of football. I'm going to have to try and get my lads to play something either win really quickly and effectively quickly. Otherwise I going to be on me for the start of play straight away. Likewise, Park is going to come with people who have got problems with how bad Bournemouth were at times in the Premier League. So he's going to have to get over the year. Well, you've just come down again.
00:47:57
Speaker
Robins you never had a budget this size and you know, you gave an article to shoot magazine Etc. Etc. So, you know Gareth Ainsworth, you know, he's the sort of person who eventually you think someone like he'll get a chance a slightly bigger club than we can but I feel like it's a again
00:48:17
Speaker
That's an more extreme version of the Robin thing. He's never had money to spend, really. He's never dealt with the big or medium boys. So will his tactics work in that way? So I think almost from how toxic it's got, the distrust that has built up now, the lack of communications built up now, I'm with you that the more left field it is, the most vehement critics. Well, not the really stupid ones, but
00:48:47
Speaker
the most vehement critics will have to kind of go, Oh, okay. Well, I don't know anything about this person. So I can't, I, I haven't got a kind of pithy tweet. I can fire off about where they failed. Cause I don't, I need to get on Wikipedia first. And that might really help reboot kind of fuzzy logic, turn it off and turn it on again. The manager and fans relationship, because if there's any former relationship that already lingers there, there might be, you know, for example, wilder.
00:49:13
Speaker
maybe 10, 15, 20% of the fan base are going to be anti him before he even gets the ball kicked. You know, the sort of pulecy, dicey style of football are all going to have people's backs up before they've started. Now that's not necessarily fair, but if we haven't got anything to call upon as experienced, then maybe we can dream that things are going to be better.
00:49:33
Speaker
So what's your final thoughts, Punt, in terms of how long we need to spend on it? When's your prediction for when this might happen, given all of your contacts within the game? Yeah, all none of them.
00:49:49
Speaker
um the ones that don't reply they want the ones where all your telephone numbers just none of them respond no it's i i would say that it seems quite clear from the messages the club have put out that they are going to take the next couple of games they're going to take the next week look you know is the fa cup match against blackburn important to the club in the wider scheme of things absolutely not so you know they we have a window of a couple of weeks where
00:50:15
Speaker
they should be getting their houses in order whether you know kind of Weber and and Neil Adams have this fabled shortlist that he talked about before and he's got a list of you know kind of four or five managers or head coaches that are ready to go we're gonna see aren't we we're gonna find out but
00:50:32
Speaker
I'm quite happy based on everything that both of you guys have said, if we go random, if we go left field, if we go into some obscure league, but there's someone who's coaching data points suggest that they are absolutely ripping it up because that's where Alex Neal came from. He was managing Hamilton Academicals, Hamilton Academicals, and it was only because David McNally had those numbers that they took a look at him and looked what happened.
00:50:59
Speaker
Well, the thing that just popped into my head was we've now got this South American connection, both from a scouting network, which we've spoken about previously, and this Brazilian club link up. So quite possibly there is someone ripping it up in that league that
00:51:18
Speaker
playing great football, if only they had better resources. I mean, to me, that is the profile I want. All of the data points suggest that when someone takes a chance on them and they've got players with the extra speed, the extra both of thought and ability, imagine what they could do with resources. I think that's the easiest narrative to buy into.
00:51:45
Speaker
to build huge momentum within the fanbase and to get it to be really positive and yeah I still as I have done throughout this season maintain that this squad is comfortably good enough to finish in the top two of this division and deployed correctly
00:52:04
Speaker
I still, even 12 points off, even with another couple of games to come, I still think it's doable. I don't think it will happen because I don't think we'll act quickly enough. I don't currently have confidence we'll get the right person because I'm going off the most recent appointment and how bad that was. But I do think it's doable for one of two teams to fall apart.
00:52:31
Speaker
that are currently there, because I've seen it happen before, and I do think it's possible for us to amass enough points, two points a game, to keep them honest. What I think is most likely is, and I've said this all along as well, I think probably, if it wasn't for the fans turning and making it so unpleasant to actually go to Carrow Road or go to a game, Smith probably would have got us in the playoffs, probably, just because the league is so bad,
00:52:55
Speaker
If he didn't have the negativity around it, I still think that the squad almost inspired him. But going back to what I said earlier, maybe they just so fed up with him. They have started underperforming because they want him out, too. It'd be interesting to see how many social media posts there are saying, thanks, boss. Thanks, Gaffer. You know, you've taught me so much. You've brought me so far because there wasn't a profile that didn't have a gushing, personal, tailored, customized message with relevant. And I know he hasn't had as long with them, but he's had every year.
00:53:25
Speaker
with most of them, it would be interesting to see if they are conspicuous by their absence. AJ is going to be all over that mate.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah, quite. I mean, I'd need to follow him to see that, but yeah, okay. Thank you, Edie, for giving us your guarantees. I'm looking forward to them playing out. I acknowledge you exist. We'll see what happens. Goodness knows when we're next getting together around the microphones because you never know. They might already have someone up their sleeve because they've been working on it since after the Blackberry game, and they might be appointed tomorrow lunchtime. Or we'll see you after a couple of games to talk about the fact that we still don't know who it is. Mind, here you go.