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"Pretty Chipper" ACN POD 126
810 Plays9 months ago
Tom & Jon are joined by McG as they look back over 3 games against promotion race rivals (6 points from 9, who saw it coming), and look ahead to this weekend's FA Cup triumph over lowly struggling Liverpool.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Transfer Window Insights
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Knowledge podcast amongst a massive mess of emotions with such a mixture of performances and we're missing any melodrama in this transfer window.
Inconsistent Performance Analysis with Mcgee and Punt
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm joined by Mcgee and Punt to get at our recent up and down form. Mcgee, we traveled to Ellen Road on Wednesday night. Was it a good performance, bad result, bad result, bad performance or something in between the two? I think it
00:00:52
Speaker
something in between the two. I came away from the game feeling pretty chipper, partly because I thought we were going to have a bad time. I thought we were going to also have a bad time at the hands of Daniel Farka, which adds to the pain and grief.
Emotional Impact of the Ellen Road Game
00:01:06
Speaker
And also because we played badly and then they scored. And it felt like that was the floodgates opening. But
00:01:14
Speaker
I thought they studied the ship and there were some periods in the second half where they were absolutely scintillating in a similar way to some of the moves that we saw against West Brom at the weekend. So you know two games in a row really encouraging. At the same time I think that
00:01:34
Speaker
we kind of felt as positive as we did after the game because we only lost 1-0 to Daniel Fager's leads. So it's kind of the relative emotions. It definitely wasn't the performance of a team that is locked in and marching into the playoffs.
Remarkable Moments Against Leeds?
00:01:51
Speaker
There's still lots of work to be done. And I think that this weekend is going to knock the team back on its confidence.
00:02:02
Speaker
encouraging that we didn't get absolutely rinsed but no more than that. You didn't agree that there was any scintillating passages of play based on the grimace that you pulled when that word was used. You thought it was you know awful and embarrassment to the club not fit to wear the shirt. No no no I wouldn't go as far as that and I pretty much wholesale agree with with most things Matthew said there.
00:02:28
Speaker
The difficulty for me is it was I wonder how much it was Leeds allowing us to do that and then they exerted some control later on in the contest or whether it was us actually really asserting ourselves and looking
Leeds' Tactical Control and Team Performance
00:02:43
Speaker
good. Look we had a lot of the ball, a hell of a lot of the ball, I can't remember the timings but you're probably talking directly straight after half time up until 65-70 minutes something like that where
00:02:55
Speaker
Nunez was getting on the ball, we looked really fluid until we got anywhere near the final third and then it just felt like it was Jack Stacey in a crossing position was probably the most likely outlet and they did a really good job of either shutting him down or restricting the amount of bodies that we had available in the box to do anything with. I think
00:03:16
Speaker
Leeds did really well at keeping us at arm's length and Leeds are a really good side, like let's not dress this up.
Balancing Acts: Leeds vs West Brom
00:03:22
Speaker
Leeds have many fantastic players, they have a fantastic coach, they're incredibly well drilled. So there was definitely lots of positives to take from that performance and Daniel Farka came out post-match and said that's the best team that have visited Allen Road in the league this season. So you know that is a massive compliment and
00:03:42
Speaker
complete testament to the turnaround which none of us saw coming did we you know really let's be honest i'm sure we'll get into it it is complete testament to that turnaround but i just
Offensive Challenges and Opportunities
00:03:57
Speaker
What I'm struggling with, I think, is the word that we used after the West Brom performance, which I'm sure we'll get into because we haven't really got together to talk about many football games for a while. But it's the balance. And I think against Leeds, we didn't quite have it. And I think against West Brom, it was definitely there in spades. I mean, on the Leeds game, we had chances. I mean, they weren't as many numerous as we would like. A chance, I'd say.
00:04:26
Speaker
I mean, I think there were some opportunities created, but there was one particular chance that, you know, towards the end that Adam Ida had that you just think that that should have got us a point. I mean, that that should have been finished. I thought that was that was, you know, to me, that's the kind of chance that Adam Ida misses with regularity and is the knock on him that that he shook off with a fantastic finish.
00:04:53
Speaker
away from home to win us the points showing pace and power and you go okay so maybe he can score score some difficult goals and pop up when you but
Striker Performance and Team Dynamics
00:05:01
Speaker
the fluffing of his lines and it might be that he doesn't play enough football, it might be because he knows in his heart of hearts, his third choice, and he's a confidence player, which he's said himself. But we can't have a striker on the bench or otherwise who has opportunities like that and doesn't score the goal. Do you think that's a really presentable chance to come back to that? Because I think he needs to make a really quick decision and then go with his left foot. But then I even think then on his left foot, it's a relatively
00:05:29
Speaker
It's not a massively high percentage chance and it just really interested me with the mood of the fanbase that Adam Ida got pelters for that and yet Gabi Sarah seemed to get off Scott 3 for shanking one from five yards.
00:05:43
Speaker
I thought he should have hit the target but that's what I was saying. We had opportunities in that game and I think that as a fan base you do carry and as humans you carry your bias into all of your views of what lens you're looking at things through.
00:06:01
Speaker
I haven't seen Sarah shank things from five yards. With the regularity that I've seen, Eden missed chances that I have seen Norwich strikers score. I haven't got to go back to
Sargent's Return and Goal-Scoring Decisions
00:06:13
Speaker
Chris Sutton. We've got one now in Sargent who has come back in really fine form in terms of a couple of very, very smooth finishes, really accomplished
00:06:23
Speaker
to your point, making early decisions, committing to it and hitting it with the force that means, okay, you could say keeper should do slightly better on the one that kind of bobbled under and went in. But the point was, he went, I'm going to play this low and I'm going to hit it really hard. And it was that decisiveness that caused it to be a goal instead of being saved around the post for a corner or whatever.
Team's Streaky Nature Under Wagner
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's completely fair to say that I think he's got a lot of the fan base to win round. And unfortunately, his
00:06:53
Speaker
his good performances and his good, you know, where he has contributed to goals have been so few and far between. He hasn't had, he hasn't had maybe the opportunity in minutes. And certainly it hasn't happened in terms of statistically for him to chip in with, you know, five goals in a 10, 12 game period that makes you go, Oh, okay, yeah, no, he can score, he can score with good frequency. And I thought we had,
00:07:18
Speaker
The big surprise for me was how much of the ball we had, because I don't know if you know this, but Daniel Fark used to be Norwich manager. So we have actually seen him quite a lot. And we've seen the way that his teams tend to set up when they're having a good season, which we can all agree leads are having. I don't ever remember us surrendering possession to another team, even that were kind of competing with us.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I don't believe that that would have been like a bend, don't break approach to giving us the ball for the, I think they would have wanted to get on top and dictate the tempo in the second half. And I don't think they were in, I don't think they were in total control of whether or not we scored. I think we missed opportunities. They did a good job of stifling how many opportunities you maybe want us to have had from an XG point of view versus the possession we had. But your point about Nunez, I thought he, he played almost there.
00:08:11
Speaker
He played sort of the Kenny role, if you like, in terms of dropping, dropping in between the two centre backs, recycling the ball and keeping us going side to side. I thought he did that really, really well. And I thought it was one of his better performances of the season, maybe again, because, you know, his, his fans would argue because he was that he was closer to the type of role that suits him. But I thought it was really heartening. And if you take it into, if you put, if you take it in context, because we did talk about this run of games last time we chatted on the pod.
00:08:40
Speaker
If you take it in the context of three teams that are going to be either in the playoffs or only narrowly miss out come May, six points and pretty much three performances where, okay, to your point, Matthew, they're not, they don't look like they're shoe inferred for Wembley.
00:08:56
Speaker
But we didn't crack the bed in any of the three, four, there were no 20 minute spells full of doom and gloom and moans. There was no period where we looked like we have a completely out of control and hanging on.
Sudden Team Transformation Mystery
00:09:10
Speaker
Now, did the other teams have chances? Yes, because it's the championship. And we rode our luck a little bit at 1-0 against West Brom. But the other team are allowed to try and score. That's going to happen.
00:09:22
Speaker
This is one of the things about David Wagner that we were told when he came in that he was quite streaky, that he'd had runs of 10 wins in 12 and then 13 losses in a row at one of his previous teams. But seeing it at Norwich is just bizarre. The team that went on the long run of just woe looked so fragile, so devoid of ideas,
00:09:49
Speaker
so anxious about even having the ball at their feet. And then without any kind of event or that bit of luck that got us a win and broke the spell, just out of nowhere, the last three games, they've been back to the old selves of how we were playing towards the beginning of the season.
Wagner's Coaching Style and Team Adaptability
00:10:07
Speaker
I don't think you can just put that down to injuries. I don't think that Josh Sargent on his own is so magical and so brilliant
00:10:14
Speaker
that he's the thing that has resolved this. I think it's just really, really bizarre. It's like watching two different teams. They've been so much more confident. They were confident with the ball against Leeds. Yes, they lacked that sort of move that would unlock the Leeds defence to create the really, really good chances. But it wasn't like they were scared to have the ball.
00:10:40
Speaker
And West Brom was enjoyable. I can't remember the last time I really enjoyed watching Norwich. It's been weeks and weeks and weeks. I've absolutely no idea. Wagner is a very, very
Critique of Wagner's Promises vs Reality
00:10:54
Speaker
strange manager. Well, that was the point. I mean, I was talking to a colleague of mine over in the German team at the firm I worked for, a huge football fan. And when he's been over, I've taken him to kind of London away games for Nodge.
00:11:07
Speaker
And, and, you know, he was saying, you know, you're looking forward to the big game at weekend. I said, obviously not. And we'll come onto today's news as well. We're recording this on Friday. Um, but, you know, I was, we were talking about, you know, his Newenburg, his team and their performances and they've got Hanover this weekend. And, and I was talking about if you were to try and describe, you know, David Wagner's football or the current Norwich city's team football.
00:11:32
Speaker
You know, well, we press really high. We also sit off and we do a lot of wing play, but we also really like to kind of thread balls through the middle intricately. And we'll quite often recycle from the back. And you know, one of our sentiment fields would drop in between the back two and receive the ball and play a little passes, but then we'll also launch it long. You know, all of those things are true all at the same time. I mean, it must be baffling punt to be a Norwich City player and to be like, so we're basically, we're doing all the tactics today then are we Gaffer?
00:12:02
Speaker
We're playing the entire book today. It's really, really confusing, though. I mean, from what both of you have just said, to work out what David Wagner's team is and what David Wagner's Norwich City has ever been. And I've seen people make comparisons to the Dean Smith era in terms of how it felt and the drudgery and the
00:12:26
Speaker
And I think some of those are fair when it's really stodgy because what Wagner has promised when he came in this football club was, you know, high press, exciting, attacking football with players that are fitter than any other in the championship.
Speculating Team's Future Under Wagner?
00:12:43
Speaker
And, you know, they will be really well drilled and they'll know what the plan is and they'll be able to execute.
00:12:49
Speaker
I don't think any of those things are true. I don't think we're the fittest squad in the championship. I don't think we have a good plan. I don't think we play with high intensity. I don't think we play particularly exciting football. So I think what he's done is, and this is almost what Stuart Weber did when he kind of got to the, fuck, you know, when are we going to have a podcast where I don't mention Stuart Weber? But like it's, it's almost like when Stuart Weber got to the Premier League,
00:13:12
Speaker
He almost kind of, again, he crapped himself and kind of went, right, well, we need to do something different. And I think David Wagner has maybe had so many
00:13:24
Speaker
don't necessarily want to call them failures, but I don't know how else to dress it up. But he's had so much underperformance as a head coach that he's had to regress to this, I don't know what it is, genuinely just don't know what I'm watching sometimes. And it feels, and this is why I compare it to the Dean Smith era, it feels very much like
00:13:45
Speaker
often the results had happened in spite of the coaching and because of individuals rather than anything else. And it feels like maybe that corner has been turned a little bit. And I just don't know whether it's completely down to Wagner or whether it's down to, you know, we'd heard that there had been some kind of meeting between the players and the coaching staff, which was meant to arrest the kind of defensive slide that was happening.
00:14:10
Speaker
but it feels like last few games we've been way more balanced as a team and yeah still don't know really what we are but it feels a little bit more long-term and it kind of it got me thinking the other day right so the noises that we've heard are
00:14:30
Speaker
and like many people here and whether they're true or not, nobody really knows. But the noises are, well, Ben Knapp has kind of got someone in mind and that might be in the summer and he can't get them out, him or her right now. And actually, this is all a bit temporary and it does feel a bit temporary. I think everyone is on that page that it feels massively temporary.
00:14:49
Speaker
But what about if David Wagner suddenly stumbles upon a formula where we do look like a balanced football team? What actually happens then? What about if we do scrape into fifth or sixth and then we miss out in the playoffs and we're a championship side again?
Ben Napper's Role in Transfer Strategy
00:15:03
Speaker
Where do we go next? And there's so many voids to fill at the moment. And I think there's a vacuum.
00:15:12
Speaker
And we need someone to fill that. And it feels like it's Ben Nappa post transfer window telling us actually what the plan is. So it's interesting that watching both your faces, one of you shook your head and one of you nodded. So I don't see like I don't understand why I don't understand Ben Nappa. I don't understand. But we haven't heard from him. So it's really easy not to understand him. It seems it seems bonkers.
00:15:41
Speaker
He, cause he's not playing the, he's not playing the, I'll be, I'll be present and visible just after a win card or, um, you know, I'll time this conversation, you know, with the, with the media, right. So that it's just after something positive has occurred or, um, in the lead up to a game where we really need to galvanize a fan base. He's not doing any, not hitting any of those notes. Um, we've had that one interview.
00:16:10
Speaker
where it was stock answers, right, at the start. And then since then, nothing, like how long has this audit taken? I mean, is he checking, is he doing like, pat testing on all the plug sockets and monitors, like in a carried offices? Like, what's he doing here? Like, it's, I really don't
00:16:29
Speaker
and i've now got a vision of him going around doing pat tested on everyone's machine but like i don't he does look a little bit like an electrician though i'll give you that yeah yeah i mean i can't i don't get the point of him like he's he's not come on you get the point of him you get the point of the role i get the point well no but this is it compared to the previous incarnation
00:16:50
Speaker
He seems so different. He's so quiet. There was a picture of him at the recent game looking cross and talking to an unknown person. Brilliant. Thanks for that. Great caption. Good work, sub-editor. But if he's not going to say anything, if he's not going to contribute, we haven't signed anyone. Let's get on to that. Do you think, to your point, then, that he's got someone in mind
00:17:14
Speaker
Is that why we're not making an effort to strengthen the squad? Because he doesn't want to get any more Wagner players in because he thinks he's going to have to get a boatload of people in for the new guy.
00:17:23
Speaker
I mean, it'd be awkward, wouldn't it? If we start signing players that aren't for David Wagner. I don't know. But I don't know. Then it comes back to the principle of, you know, something that the football club were keen to impress upon fans, you know, not so long ago was that head coaches would be
Leadership Communication and Fan Engagement
00:17:39
Speaker
interchangeable. And actually the sporting director would lead the direction of the football club and that would sign players. That could be less true.
00:17:46
Speaker
It couldn't be less true with this particular head coach, but the principle in my mind is actually quite sound. Good football is a good football and if you're playing football in a certain way, look, you know, players are adaptable and can change. I think the ship sailed on that when they appointed Dean Smith after Sacking Daniel Farley. But it's not to say that we can't course correct under new leadership. Well, we could and what I'd want to know is, do they want to?
00:18:16
Speaker
This is a thing like, you know, remember when we talked about Dean Smith having such a bad relationship with the fans and people would say, well, it's not his job to be he's not in charge of comms. But actually, I think in football leadership, and especially a club like Norwich with our fans, that is part of leadership. Yeah. Norwich fans, I think more than a lot of other clubs are patient and they are understanding if they understand what is being attempted.
00:18:45
Speaker
I think people would be giving Ben Knapper a lot more leeway if we had some sort of sense of what he was attempting to do. Now, it's not in his job description to reassure us and communicate with us and to try and reduce the number of whinges below 20%.
Fan Disconnection and Rising Costs
00:19:02
Speaker
but it actually does help him do his job it's not in his job description but it is an important part of football leadership nowadays and the fact that we've had literally nothing from him at all i think is quite damaging and i think that hurts uh the team because it it means that fans are less willing to be vocal and supportive and patient um because we just don't know where they're going the idea that we
00:19:27
Speaker
to think that we might not be bringing in players to strengthen the team because Wagner might not be being sacked but he might be staying till the end of the season is just is nuts. We need to hear from Ben Naper and understand what the plan is even if
00:19:39
Speaker
The plan doesn't mean that we're going to be brilliant for the rest of this year and smash the playoffs and go on. He still needs to talk to us. Even if all he's doing is listing off all the keyboards that failed the pack test. I think he's been spending time with the keyboards. It's the veg patch that's taking his time. Yeah, well, I mean, he's busy time of year getting the bulbs in. I don't really... They're not veg.
00:20:01
Speaker
You probably could eat him. I don't really feel an affinity with the bloke. He's got such an enormous role at my football club. In theory, he's the top football guy at the thing I spend more monthly than almost anything else. He's very close behind my mortgage, how much it costs my two season tickets in the South stand. It is painfully expensive to go and watch football. To your point, Matthew, about enjoying my prom,
00:20:30
Speaker
that is the least that's the first time for ages i haven't walked away from cara road with my lad really conscious that i've just dropped 50 odd quid on on that afternoon do you know i mean like that's the first time i haven't gone we've both paid 26 pounds to watch that um
00:20:50
Speaker
because it's been such a waste of an hour and a half to two hours of our time sitting in the cold. Whereas actually, you thought, well, you know, you got me on the edge of the seat, road did some great
Norwich City’s Identity Crisis
00:21:00
Speaker
stuff, Sarah did some great stuff, Kenny did some great stuff, you know, everyone other than Gibson at the back looked competent, you know, I thought it was I thought it was it was it was excellent all around, I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. And
00:21:11
Speaker
We're getting towards season ticket time. There's a lot of conversations between fans around, you know, are you going to renew? Are you going, I mean, say some lads, I'd say lads, gentlemen, around me who have been going for a very long time. And I really do think even during West Brom half time when it had been decent in the first half, they're saying, I don't know, might need to move to a cheaper bit of the ground.
00:21:37
Speaker
you know, might, might give up because it's relatively easy to get a casual ticket. You know, if we're going to be in a championship for another season, unless we are in the top two or three, you can, you can usually pick, if you don't mind, especially if you don't mind where you sit, you can basically pick up a ticket practically every game. So why commit to the, to the week in week out or the every couple of weeks, whatever, you know, payment when everything's so expensive. It's that's that with that in mind,
00:22:06
Speaker
This is why I'm expecting to hear from Napa. I'm expecting to hear why should I be signing myself up for another big outlay financially.
00:22:16
Speaker
when actually I can follow it on a stream pretty easily. The boring games are just as boring on a stream as they are in real life. The atmosphere was better at West Brom, brilliant to have the drum back, but it was better in the most part because we were off the back of beating a playoff hopeful and we started the game positively. It makes a huge difference.
00:22:40
Speaker
I mean surely the comms, you know, you know, it's the manager's job to a degree. Wagner is liked, loathed, loved in various degrees, feels like the fan base is really split on him. But Nappa, no one cares about because he doesn't say anything. Surely we're going to get something from the club between now and season ticket time. I think just to go back to Wagner, I think most people are actually quite
00:23:10
Speaker
united on him in so much as they really like him as a human but actually they everyone's kind of like nah he's he's not going to be for us longer term but i think the the point around season ticket renewals is is absolutely pertinent because look i don't i don't renew my season ticket because i expect neuro city to be in the top two or the top six of the championship i renew my season ticket and have done so for however many years
00:23:34
Speaker
30
Transparency and Re-engagement with Fans
00:23:35
Speaker
odd because this is a community football club that you feel part of that you feel together when you're there and when it's really brilliant at Norwich regardless of whether we're top of the league or you know middle of the championship or wherever you feel part of something and I've increasingly
00:23:55
Speaker
felt less of a part of that over the last 18 months to two years. And I think some of that is the way in which the football club has communicated with its supporters. And that doesn't have to be Ben Napper. That doesn't have to be Zoe Weber. That doesn't have to be any of the exec committee. It can be how the football club does things on social media. It can be how the football club engages with supporters in different ways. I wouldn't pin this on Ben Napper. Ben Napper has been thrust into a position
00:24:22
Speaker
where Stuart Weber was an excellent communicator in many forms. He was also a really poor communicator in some forms as well and chose really bad turns of phrases that will forever haunt his career at Norwich. But actually he was effective at getting messages across and he was present. And like no other sporting director across
00:24:50
Speaker
probably most of Europe, I would have thought, you know, he was, he made himself available. He understood how important that was. So I'm not expecting Ben Nappa to be the next Stuart Weber in that regard. But what I am expecting is that he should get a clear steer from people within the football club who know how to do comms, if they know how to do comms effectively, you know, and they appointed professionals to do that, to tell him that actually he needs to communicate with supporters.
00:25:18
Speaker
We are, as I understand it, we are still paying a consultant to do PR for the football club. You know, who was, who came in under, when Stuart Weller was there, he should be telling Ben Napper that he needs to get out in front of this. So I don't blame Napper. I blame the people that maybe are advising him. And it is really important now that we don't, not necessarily hear from Ben Napper, but we hear from people at the club.
00:25:41
Speaker
about what the vision is, that can be Delia and Michael, that can be Mark Hatanasio, that can be Zoe Webber, that can be Neil Adams as technical director, Ben Nappa, a little bit of everything. But there is definitely a void right now. And if they want people to start renewing season tickets, it won't be based on results alone. I can tell you that people, regardless of the results over the last three or four games, the disconnection that people have felt
00:26:11
Speaker
is very real and it isn't going to be a few positive results that will rectify that. It needs to start with a more conciliatory tone, I think, before people will get back on board with things. Yeah, it's interesting, you know, you talk about the kind of cons and stuff coming out of the club. It has felt to me that there has actually been less
00:26:35
Speaker
in quantity. Like, there doesn't seem to have been as many kind of behind the scenes videos, clips of, you know, I know that they have kind of the match day, and whatever it's called city view, or whatever it's called. And, but, you know, I just think that going back, you know, even during Dean Smith's time, and just, you know, when you just said, Matthew, do you remember we used to sit here and talk about Dean Smith, I had forgotten that that was the thing that I we used to have to look at each other on the internet and talk about that man, heavens above that was dark. But the
00:27:06
Speaker
Do you agree? Is it just me? Is it my algorithm's not thinking that I want to watch an orange content? I feel like in the last few years, the social team and there seem to have been a lot more stuff around the club from Colney.
00:27:22
Speaker
Q&A's with players and little quizzes and little bits for social and stuff that just sort of made you think about knowledge in between games and thought about them as humans a bit more. Whereas it really seems to be press conference game highlights, that's your luck at the moment.
00:27:38
Speaker
Yeah, the vibes have definitely changed in the last couple of years. And I think that's partly results, partly the developing abrasiveness
Liverpool Match Preview and Predictions
00:27:50
Speaker
between particularly Stuart Weber, but others in the club and the fan base. I think that obviously Dean Smith was a catastrophe on the field and off the field for the club. I was thinking at the weekend how
00:28:05
Speaker
In many ways, the last time I've been completely unambiguously, totally joyful about being an orange fan was walking away from the FA Cup game where we beat Spurs on penalties. After that, we had locked down. We didn't get to see the winning the championship again. When we all got back in, we were getting stuffed out of the Premier League. Faka got sacked. Dean Smith came in. It really hasn't been quite the same since.
00:28:34
Speaker
that's manifesting itself in just fewer joyful moments. But I also wonder whether the quite high level of turnover that they've had at the staff level at the club.
00:28:46
Speaker
you know there was a period where there was almost a week didn't go by where there'd be a linked in announcement of someone leaving and getting a new job and and so on and i wonder if they've just got that they've lost some of that cohesion and and some of that kind of uh plan internally but it doesn't help all of it doesn't help obviously results are the number one but that glue that uh uh cemented fans and the club and made being an orange fan
00:29:14
Speaker
that little bit of fun is definitely, definitely gone. Okay. Well, let's, speaking of having no fun, let's talk about 2.30 on Sunday. So Mr. Clark has run out of energy.
00:29:27
Speaker
So he can't be Liverpool manager after this season. So he's going to walk out after the double that they're going to win. Which double, we'll see, is it going to be the two cups, as in the two domestic cups? I think that's probably most likely. So they're four to one to win the whole thing. We're 16 to one just to win the game on Sunday. So with that in mind, I think it's probably likely that we lose.
00:29:56
Speaker
What do you think will do team selection wise punt? I mean, I think Matthew hit the nail on the head. This could easily be, I mean, along come Norwich in terms of yet again, there's a big piece of managing news that galvanises the fan base before Norwich. I remember a Ryan Giggs led Man United team scoring four could have had 30 when we turned up just in time for that game.
00:30:17
Speaker
So, you know, a big kind of swell of love and feeling and gratitude from Anfield to Klopp on Sunday. Do you basically just play a B team except that you're going to get annihilated and hope that it doesn't knock the confidence of your first team players? No, I kind of think we have to have a semblance of consistency to this. And I guess he will use it as an exercise to put fitness into some players. I don't know.
00:30:46
Speaker
Grant Hanley's actual current state. I haven't listened to any press conferences recently, but is he anywhere near fitness? Will he get minutes? You'd probably look at someone like Lungi, maybe getting some minutes. But aside from that, actually, we've started to settle on a lineup which feels like it might be somewhere near our best once everyone is fit.
00:31:08
Speaker
Why change that too much? I don't think we should bother. We're not going to have a game until the following Saturday. So it's not like there's a midweek and we need to recover. Just go for it. This is a Liverpool that's not going to have Mo Salah in the team, probably isn't going to have Trent there. I think Annie Robertson has only just come back from injury. They've got a couple of others out or who are at least struggling or maybe just about to return from injury.
00:31:37
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe if Klopp does rotate, as Wagner has implored him to do, this might be one of those times where we could actually beat Liverpool. And as Matthew and I were discussing before we started recording, it has been quite some time since we have actually beaten Liverpool. And I think Matthew maybe has some excellent statistics around all of that. Go on, McGee. Well, I did do some flicking through the stat books during the period where you are traditionally late to log on.
00:32:07
Speaker
And we last beat Liverpool 30 years ago and in the 18 games we've played them since. We've won obviously zero, but we've lost 16 of those 18.
Management Style Comparisons and Stability Reflection
00:32:18
Speaker
We've only drawn twice in 30 years. What I'm hearing there is consistency. We are absolutely consistent. But it does add to the kind of a long-term Norwich vibes. That's why I'm going, so that's why I'm gonna keep telling myself that
00:32:36
Speaker
it's not purely a sense of dreaded duty that is pushing me to go to this game. But also, you know, I'd say we've got a one in 100 chance of winning the game, rather than a one in 16 chance. So those odds are pretty good. But obviously, it'd be very, very special. The last time we beat Liverpool was on the last day of the Cop
00:32:55
Speaker
And the entire day was wholly built around the cringy magic of Liverpool. Aren't they amazing? All these people that stand on a cop, aren't they wonderful? What a bunch of great scousers they are. And we beat them and ruined their day. And last time we beat them was the last day of the cop. Maybe we'll beat them on the last day of the clock.
00:33:19
Speaker
Nice, but it's not Seneca's last day, but I see what you did. It's not his last day. Yeah, it's worth it for the time. That cuts across the line, so I hope you'll like that. Why not get in the way of a good pun? I'm really glad that I've done Anfield because it means I never have to do it again. I experienced something extremely unwelcoming, unpleasant fans outside Anfield from the home support.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, I've done that. I don't have to go again. Brilliant. Unless the universe sort of freezes over and they become a bad team and we become a good team, only then would I consider going back there again. It's also just too far. It's very far if you've already been. Yeah, on the kind of history punt, can you
00:34:05
Speaker
Come on, give us a bit of, get on your soapbox and give us some tabitha. I mean, tell us why. Why can Mcgee travel that way in expectation? Why is it going to be different this time?
00:34:18
Speaker
Really? You're actually asking me to find some reasons why we might win this football match. No, I've, I've genuinely like, got nothing. Like, look, this is an excellent Liverpool squad with an excellent coach, with some absolute fabulous players. He is quite tired. Yeah. But you know, being head coach of Liverpool Football Club for however long it is, is it nine seasons, something like that? Feels like 90.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah, I know you're not a fan of Mr. Klopp, but he's steeped himself in that city. He's got what it is to be a scouser. He understands that football club. And I think, you know, being coach of that football club is all consuming and would take it out of anyone. So the fact that he stuck it for that long.
00:35:05
Speaker
is incredible, like genuinely incredible. And I think probably won't happen again for a fair amount of time. And I think Liverpool will be all the poorer for it. Do you think, on that point, do you think that is what they are? Do you think that's where all the sadness from Liverpool fans today is? Do you think it is that they've seen what kind of vacuum can open up after a rapper? After they had someone good, there is a period of
00:35:34
Speaker
You know, they've seen what's happened at United. I mean, they're still looking after likewise, had to wake a long time till Arteta. It'll be the David Moyes effect all over again, won't it? You know, kind of, and actually United are still struggling and will probably go on stumbling because their football club is horrendously managed. But Klopp, very much like Daniel Farker did here, you know, actually
00:35:58
Speaker
got very quickly what it was to live in that city you know even just stupid little references about you know kind of purple wheelie bins you know kind of just throwing those out in press conferences because that's completely synonymous with with Liverpool but it just goes so far with supporters and you know bringing that full circle
00:36:17
Speaker
David Wagner was really good at that, you know, when he first joined this football club and did a lot of things right, you know, kind of actually turning up to a community event, turning up to, you
Podcast Wrap-up and Final Thoughts
00:36:27
Speaker
know, women's games, you know, kind of where he was gracious enough to have loads of photos with with loads of supporters, just interacting with people like City Elite when, you know, when they just started off the drumming like, you know, he obviously learned, well, maybe he hadn't learned it from clock, but he, you know, he'd identified that that had been something that that would have been incredibly useful in buying him time.
00:36:47
Speaker
And it did. But to come back to point around, you know, find some reasons why we could win this football match.
00:36:53
Speaker
purely the along-come nourishness of it, you know, and the fact that Klopp has just made this announcement is the only reason that I could find to do it because, you know, based on statistics or squads available or, you know, anything else, you know, Liverpool C team should, should roll over our first team relatively simply. Um, so it is going to take a freak of nature and let's see, I don't know. I'm, I won't even be watching it on television. I think it's that much of a,
00:37:22
Speaker
a procession, I will probably choose to go and watch narratively women who are playing actonians up the nest this Sunday. Well, my current plan is to turn off at 2-0.
00:37:34
Speaker
Um, so I will, um, I will give it 28 minutes and probably something. Oh, really? Oh, okay. I need to cancel my three o'clock appointment and I thought I'd be able to get there in time. No, I will, uh, you know, it's one of those things again, talking to my buddy today about it. Um, when, when you are in such expectant mode of being annihilated, if at halftime, somehow it's nil and nil because the bar has been hit three times, they've had an offside goal or whatever.
00:38:02
Speaker
and somehow we're still in it, then yeah, all of a sudden you think, oh, maybe it is one of those days.
00:38:09
Speaker
No, I just prefer to protect myself by going into games like this with just the pure expectation of losing. And then it's not a disappointment because you just think, well, we shouldn't win. It would be malpractice for Liverpool to allow us to win. There are some upsets where you can sort of read it in the tea leaves and see theoretically why it should happen.
00:38:37
Speaker
I don't bet on football. If I bet on football, I would put, is it Newport County going to Man United? I would put, if I had to put a fiver somewhere of my own money, it would be on Man United losing to a team, you know, two leagues different than it would be us to beat Liverpool. Because this is just, we lose to Liverpool. To your point on, so was it 16 out of 18? This is what we do. We're brilliant at it.
00:39:05
Speaker
So let's have a score prediction to wrap up. Punt, what is it going to be? You can give me one for the women's team against Actonians, and you can give me one for Norwich Liverpool. Lovely. I will say that it will be 4-0 on both fronts, but in favor of Norwich up at the nest, and Liverpool will dispatch us fairly easily. I would think, because I know you like very specific things, I think we will be 3-0 down within the first half an hour.
00:39:35
Speaker
And, um, and then we will put in a creditable display and perhaps, you know, just be able to come away with, Oh, look, we only lost the second half one nil and didn't we play well and, you know, create a couple of decent chances. But actually that will very much be because Liverpool weren't that bothered anymore. Do you think clock would tell his team once it gets to four, please don't embarrass my mate.
00:39:57
Speaker
I mean, he might start making changes at that point, you know, just to have mercy on us. Give the physio right out. But he will blood some kids, won't he? You know, there's no doubt about it. There will be some youth products on show from Liverpool, but you know, some of them have been exceptionally well nurtured and you know, that is a footballing city that has loads of... It will be worth 35 million in two years time.
00:40:21
Speaker
Exactly. All right, you're going Matthew, all credit to you, you crazy boy. What are you going to say the guaranteed score is going to be? Yeah, I mean, to be fair, it's actually only down the road from where I live. So it's closer for me to get to Anfield than it used to be for me to get from setford to Carrow Road. So it's not a big old poke for me.
00:40:43
Speaker
I think this is the fact you're going to be there in real life. Something to do, get me out of the house. I first started having a season ticket in the early 90s when we beat Liverpool three times in two seasons. So I'm much more optimistic because of that formative experience. So I'm going to say that we're only going to lose 4-1. I think we will be 4-0 down at half time and Klopp will tell them to go easy and score a goal.
00:41:12
Speaker
Give it a rest. I think Josh Sargent will score an absolute banger, a pukiesque ball threaded through by Sarah in front of the Norwich goal, in front of the Norwich fans and we'll go home.
00:41:26
Speaker
pretty happy with not being excessively humiliated. Well, that is an adjective, not very good English. As you can tell, anyone who's listened to 126 of these punts said creditable. And I think if anyone is using the word creditable come half past five Sunday evening, then I'll take that. And I think we're going to win 2-1.
00:41:51
Speaker
and we will continue our march to FA Cup glory. Thank you for your time, pun, it's been wonderful seeing your face. Matthew, I hope you have a fantastic time on Sunday. And you, listener, enjoy ITV's finest, finest coverage of football. Mind how you go.