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"The Half-Time Team Talk" ACN Pod #136
568 Plays6 days ago
Two gingers, one Punt. Jon, Ben & Connor drool over some last minute Carrow Road drama whilst trying to be sensible about the January transfer window that lies ahead...
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Transcript
Podcast Return and Hosts Introduction
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Along Come Nudge podcast, a rarely regular rant and roll it through the right royally run life of a Nudge fan. We're back after an extended winter break and there's a fair bit to catch up on. Join myself, Ben Ambrose, one of ACN's founding fathers, John Pund, and some random ginger bloke who writes for the paper, Connor Southwell.
00:00:43
Speaker
So gents, first and foremost, I want to say thank you very much for joining me and I want want to wish you both a very happy new year, a very, very happy new year indeed.
Norwich City Win Against Coventry
00:00:53
Speaker
I would feel like I have not done my duty as a Norwich City fan who is still riding that wave after the win against Coventry to not start off by asking before we get into, you know, ah a wonderful amount of of of things when it comes to all that's going on with Norwich City at the moment.
00:01:09
Speaker
I want to talk about that commentary when I want to talk about those two incredible goals for very different reasons. John, supporter, your views, are you still riding that wave or have you calmed down and you're perhaps looking at the game as a whole? I know Connor, maybe that'll be the the case for you, but for you, John, are you still very much riding that wave?
Challenges and New Start for Norwich City
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's actual moments for Norwich City fans have been few and far between over the last what, three years or however long it's been. I struggled to think of how long it's kind of been dirge. So as much as Jahanov Taurup's reign has been a breath of fresh air in terms of this stylistic change that the club are looking to implement.
00:01:51
Speaker
It's kind of, there hasn't been a moment. There hasn't been a, right, this is liftoff. There's been like, you know, brilliant wins and dominant wins, but there hasn't, you know, there hasn't been the kind of moments that punctuated. Yeah. I'm going to say it, that Farka season 18, 19, it felt very reminiscent of that. And when I got home, it was like, right, let's just consume all the content that's out there. Let's look at all the fan media. Let's look at everything that the pink and boys are doing. Let's look at.
00:02:20
Speaker
Coventry you know kind of fans accounts of it. Let's look at how salty Frank Lampard is. Let's just absolutely absorb everything that's gone on with that football match. And I can't remember the last time I did that. you know Look, I keep abreast of of everything. I'm a massive Norwich fan, but it's felt difficult to be invested to the levels perhaps that I ah had been when I was younger. And those kinds of moments make you feel like
Fan Engagement and Excitement
00:02:44
Speaker
that. Those kinds of moments are why you turn up at football matches.
00:02:47
Speaker
And it was brilliant that you know I turned to but turned when the second goal went in. And probably for the first time in a long time, I saw my 12-year-old daughter kind of flailing arms, absolutely. You know, kind of like, what the hell has just gone on? So, yeah, that is why you turn up, isn't it? that That's why we're Norwich fans. And that's why the Farcos season of 18-19 felt so absolutely incredible. And a That will stick with everyone. That will stick with Carrow Road for some, some time. So yeah, I'm just going to continue to drink it in um yes for anyone that wishes to tweet their long-term knowledge account, you know kind of with their videos of it or you know their take on it, send it to us because we love it.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm i'm not gonna lie and pretend that I haven't spent a lot of the past sort of two days rewatching those four minutes of, well, five minutes, I should say, of of added time with a yeah ah massive smile on
Norwich City's Future and Tactical Decisions
00:03:44
Speaker
my face. And one thing about Norwich is we're back in that stage, aren't we, of, look, we're we're building to something, the future is is bright. we you know I like to think it is quite bright, but people do make the counterpoint of, well, what about the here and now?
00:04:00
Speaker
And as you say, John, that moment of pure ecstasy, I think it is something that is sprinkled over this project by the footballing gods to say, look, if you keep buying into what you are being told to buy into, maybe not 95 winners every week, because you don't want that, because I don't think we live past the age of 30, 40, 50 between us.
00:04:23
Speaker
um but But I don't know, it was it was such a beautiful moment. and And Connor, this is such an interesting one because you've been covering Norwich now for for me, what feels like forever. Where does this rank in terms of your moments as a reporter? And obviously, you know, it's it's no secret, you're a Norwich City fan. In terms of being a reporter, where does it rank for you? Because you have to find that balance. And I'm sure there's been moments over the years, for example, I think, I can't remember if your first game was Manchester City. I think it was, wasn't it?
00:04:52
Speaker
and And I suppose back then your brain is like, oh my god, this is like just dream stuff happening in front of you. But as someone who is becoming more experienced in your role, where does that rank for you and how did you keep a lid on it?
00:05:06
Speaker
hu ah Well, yeah, it's it's it was it was something that I think was was probably more special because it felt so impossible when when that second goal went in. It just felt like the most unbelievable thing had just unfolded and to an extent it had because I think when, you know, Forsen and Kay Gordon appeared at the side of the pitch, I think there were a lot of people turning around with maybe an eyebrow raised and a shrug and going, what what are they trying to do here? but um Yeah, the manner of it, the first goal, obviously the second goal was it was unbelievable. But yeah, it was just delirium. and And like you say, I think there have been various elements and various times over my ah career so far doing this job five years now that I've i've experienced some
Memorable Reporting Experiences
00:05:47
Speaker
unbelievable moments. You mentioned Manchester City and you're and you're right, that was the first game and it was unbelievable. But to an extent, I can't really remember much of that because so much of it was around, you know, what do I do at this moment and how do I do this and and whatnot. So, you know, obviously then the,
00:06:00
Speaker
the promotion or the title-winning campaign, second one Daniel Farker was behind closed doors so a lot of that was without um supporters in so there was a surreal element to that so this probably ranks as a moment one one of the best for sure and I had quite a unique ah situation in it in that I was so sat next to a Coventry fan as it happened so um all all of all of that was incredible and yeah I think i've not heard cara road erupt like that for a very very very long time i can't remember the the last time i did um hear cara road erupt in in that manner with the yeah it just that that unity almost and i think you you have to tell yourself because you're right this this is building to something new and
00:06:41
Speaker
um The good moments are are almost getting Norwich through this season for me. they They are the ones that just give people enough to clinch to and and and to cling on to that actually maybe this is something worth buying into. So, um it was a really special moment. I'm really pleased to happen for a man called Forsen as well. I think that's a really nice story given his struggles and ah you know the fact he hadn't played in seven matches and there was a method to that madness as well in terms of chucking him onto the pitch. It wasn't just a hopeful right, who's on the bench and scrambling them on and getting as many attacking players on. It was a really well thought out tactical plan that they executed. and And that for me makes it all the more impressive, I think. So, yeah, all elements to it. The the moment, the situation that I was in, um all of that contributed it to being, yeah, really up there in terms of of the days I've had work in the job, probably rivalled by maybe the the win over Ipswich last season. um But actually in terms of a season, and I don't know if you boys feel the same, but
00:07:38
Speaker
I've actually found this one much more enjoyable than than last season even though Norwich were probably better as a team and higher in the league and going for for something a little bit different.
Player Signings and Manager Praise
00:07:47
Speaker
I've found it more enjoyable to cover, to write about, to watch and yeah all all of those elements were probably rolled into one in that five minute spell.
00:07:56
Speaker
And it was it was brilliant. And how do you keep a lid on it? Well, like everyone else, it's it's difficult. There's a sort of an unwritten press box rule that you don't really celebrate goals. You can sort of get away with a sort of fist pump under the table. So that's that's about as far as I got for for that second goal, really. I think I want to spell out for the for the listeners that we will be moving on past the Coventry game and we'll talk about signings. We'll talk about the Christmas period. we'll We'll cover all of that. But there are so many more interesting points that I think the Coventry game brings ah to so to sort of my attention and
00:08:29
Speaker
There's a couple that the one I want to start with, John, is Johannes Hofthorpe and his in-game tactical decisions, his substitutions and and how he sort of molds the team to how he wants them to play to that specific game. So he he clearly has no identity. And as Connor said, it's it's sort of, um it's created some really wonderful football to watch. I think of Watford, I think of the whole home game where Norwich just dominate, they create chances. And as sort of a football purist, I am one for how quickly can we get the ball from our goal to their goal, but on the floor. that That's how I like to see football being played. So going to Carrow this season has been an absolute joy. think one I think it's fair to say that one of the main points that was made about Thorup was his ability to adapt in-game. And I think when it comes to Norwich,
00:09:20
Speaker
It's been interesting that the guy's not been in the job for for long. Let's not get that wrong. But as you said, Connor, when, you know, and I'll speak for myself, when I saw Cade Gordon and Immanuel Forsen coming on, I was a bit like, hmm, I just don't know. Because with Forsen, he started off strangely, didn't he? Because he looked technically really good. But then very quickly, and and following quite a nasty injury, very quickly, he looked out of his depth. So in my brain, and with Cade Gordon, it's just been a bit of a weird ah ah we could talk about it for about 30 seconds and cover everything for Cade Gordon so he won't but and in my brain I was like hmm okay and the the reasonable logical side of my brain was saying okay but trust this idea that Thorp can make that in-game tactical shift that he needs to for you Jon does that sort of moment against Coventry all those moments because it was personnel and then it was system
00:10:13
Speaker
Does that sort of spell out to you that he he is good at it and that is reason to be hopeful for the future or it again is it this idea that perhaps it was just a commentary game? How do you feel about Thorp and how he deals with games whilst actually being in them?
Squad Challenges and Player Highlights
00:10:28
Speaker
I think it's really hard to assess Thorp's ability to change games over, if you know, if we look ah across the piece of of the season he hasn't really had a fully fit squad to choose from for quite some time. And I think I feel like he was influencing games to towards the start of the season. And then he basically had the whole midfield decimated, you know, Josh Sargent goes down, um you know, there's suspension, there's, you know, there's injury pretty much everywhere in the team. And that severely limits your options, you know, kind of there' there's been benches that you've looked at this season and gone,
00:11:04
Speaker
It doesn't really matter who we bring on. you know i'm I'm not sure that it's going to meaningfully change change the game. And that's no disrespect to to maybe the individuals on the bench. It's it's the collective strength on the bench that that's been the worry. So now that he has you know got getting towards you know kind of what what he might see see as you know more of ah an optimal squad, he's gone and changed it. you know And he's gone and changed it in a way which you know seemed tactically quite, you know, kind of out of the box in terms of, you know, shifting Kenny to, you know, the the three of, you know, kind of a defensive line, um you know, putting people out wide that you wouldn't necessarily associate there, you know, kind of loading, you know, kind of the 10 position almost, you know, so there was there was people there that that could pick up, um you know, the ball in pockets of space. So
00:11:54
Speaker
I think he probably can. And I think, you know, he's someone who he's already assembled a team around him of of analysts and, you know, and Glen Ritter's home and and Jack Wilshire. He seems to me to be the kind of person who's quite happy to collaborate, quite happy to listen to people around him, quite happy to to take guidance. You know, he's he's quite humble, doesn't feel like he knows it all.
00:12:16
Speaker
So I think the fact that all of that is in place leads me to the the position that he will be able to do it longer term and and it will be fine. I just wanted to touch on Forsen as well because I thought ah felt like camera which one of you boys said um it was a lovely moment.
00:12:32
Speaker
I don't know if you've watched the City View, you probably have, um you know, kind of the Norwich City's video that they put out with all the behind the scenes, but only when we win. um and it And it was really lovely that right at the end, just as like everyone's filing into the the changing rooms, pretty much the last person to file in is a Mancua force and he you know he's been lapping it up you know from everywhere.
00:12:56
Speaker
And there was a real warm kind of, wo like they, you could tell he was a properly popular member of the changing room and they were all just so happy for him. And I think it's those kinds of things that, but showed that show the personality of the, of the squad. And like how many, I know he's only tiny, but how many people were picking him up on the pitch afterwards as well? Brilliant. Like, loved it.
00:13:19
Speaker
it was quite a spectacle. And one thing I noticed is, as you know, much of Caro did is is when Thorp at full time ran onto the pitch, he was straight over to Forsen, embracing him saying whatever on earth it was he said to him, um which it was nice
Rebuilding Phase and Strategic Direction
00:13:34
Speaker
to see. And I think I don't want to sort of crap on David Wagner because he I think he tried to manufacture that kind of culture that kind of relationship with the fans it was just we I feel didn't really respond to it because of what was going on on the pitch and it was kind of this like well we've just seen what you've done for 95 minutes I feel reluctant to throw my arms in the air for it whereas what's happening at the moment and across this season then and again it's sort of
00:14:03
Speaker
you know built to this moment against Coventry it feels very natural and it feels like we're watching people who like playing together who are doing good things together you know equally doing some silly things but again you know we really are at almost the embryo stage of of of essentially rebuilding aren't we? Connor we are just over the hump and before we move on we're just over the hump in the season we're just over halfway what's your sort of um and please don't don't be too lengthy with this but what's your current assessment in terms of where Norwich City are at and and please you know throw footballers names into there who play for us this season speak about Thorpe maybe I don't know because it's such a weird thing to ask because I think
00:14:48
Speaker
for the most part, everyone kind of agrees. But in terms of where, from from your point of view, Norwich City are at the moment, how does that make you feel and and and maybe sort of spell out why you think Norwich are where they are?
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm quite happy with where Norwich are, to be honest. I think i think it's it's been the season that I kind of expected it being, which is quite up, quite quite down, a couple of bad runs, a couple of good runs, um some some good performances and and and a feeling that underpinning it all, you kind of get what they're trying to do and where they're trying to go and the type of players that they're trying to recruit.
00:15:18
Speaker
um I'm really impressed by Torup generally. I think the way he conducts himself, I think the coach that he is, you can see that there's a coach there with a very high ceiling. That's not to say he doesn't make mistakes and hasn't made mistakes because I think he has at various points this season, but I think that's okay too. And the same um way as talking about developing players, he's developing also. um So yeah, I think i'm I'm pretty pleased with it. I think the mistake that, not mistake, but I feel that maybe the comparison to last year which I get is natural because seasons are always compared to the one that went before them but to an extent to me that that doesn't necessarily feel like the right comparison to make to say well Norwich finished sixth and therefore they must equal or better that this year I think that's maybe the wrong um way to look at it because last season was ah so far removed from what they're trying to do this year in terms of it was short term it was a different strategy it was different people for
00:16:10
Speaker
a lot of it and it was geared towards getting up and there wasn't a lot of substance um beneath that. This year is is kind of its own individual thing I think and I think the analysis of the season becomes much better when you kind of detach it from what happened last year. um So I think once you do that and you appreciate where they are and what they're building and where they're trying to get to you can kind of see that actually it's it's okay and I think it's okay for Norwich to finish mid-table this year that's not to say that it's acceptable or it's where anyone wants to be but that's the that's not the case at all but I think considering where they're at with their squad where it's a mismatch of players from kind of different head coaches and different eras and
00:16:46
Speaker
where they're trying to get to with young talent and and and building all of that stuff. I think they're in an OK position. I think they they could be doing better. I think they'd want to be a little bit closer to the playoffs. And they are at this moment in time. Four points isn't a massive um tally outside of it. And they're closer to it than they were at this stage last season. Say, hey, who knows? but um I think for me it's just about seeing progress from the start of the season to the end of it and as we start here now um I'm seeing a better Norrie City team than I did at the start of the season and that for me is is progress and and success really and if we're talking again in May as seeing a Norrie City team that's made more progress under Torrup and some of these players, Cianat, Forsen, others who are beginning to look a lot more at home and at ease and the system's looking better
00:17:28
Speaker
that for me would constitute a successful first year. So yeah, I guess that's a long-winded way, Ben, of saying i'm I'm pretty happy and pretty content of where Noree City are right now. Yeah, I appreciate that. and And by your standards, that was very brief. So I appreciate that. ah John, progress.
00:17:45
Speaker
Norwich City have gotten Ashley Barnes and Christian Fashion Act off the books, potentially Grant Hanley as well, this window, your thoughts. I'm intrigued as to how hard you're going to go here on um Barnes and Fasten Act, because I feel like it could be quite easy too. But I'm just so keen on on your thoughts on two, just I want to say odd players, if you'd accept that.
00:18:13
Speaker
I thought you were going to go to something like Club Stalwart's. or not quite yeah um I've said it on this podcast many, many times. I didn't particularly agree with us signing Ashley Barnes. I thought it was it was a really weird transfer. I think it absolutely demonstrated where Norrie City whereas a club and how far that Stuart Weber had strayed from the path that he'd laid out to so any Norwich fan that would listen to him when he first joined the club. um And it was it was it was just it was almost getting into you know kind of the banter years. um and you know That's what it demonstrated to me. So the fact that he's gone, the fact that we've got those wages off the books is fabulous for me. I absolutely recognise that there is a debate to be had about the club's direction of travel.
00:19:04
Speaker
with how many strikers we need moving forward so it's all very well to say yeah Josh Sargent's coming back so that's fine but Josh Sargent hasn't been particularly fit for what about 18 months you know he's possibly hasn't been that fit since he's joined Nori City Football Club he you know he's um So, I think there is something in the, should we be looking at a um ah more short-term option to make sure that we're shored up? That said, who are you going to sign? you know Who's going to come in and and be happy to be second fiddle to to Josh Sargent, who's arguably you know within the top kind of three strikers in the championship?
00:19:42
Speaker
So it's a tricky one, but I think, you know, getting Barnes off the books, given that he is so far away from being a Johannes Hof Tourette player is very, very good. um Christian Fastenakt.
00:19:56
Speaker
I never really felt like we saw the best of Christian Fastenacz, and that's potentially because he was so injury-prone as well, and he was in and out of the the squad.
Injuries and Leadership Changes
00:20:05
Speaker
I feel like there might have been a bit of a sliding doors moment when, Connie, you might know, but I'm pretty sure he got injured in pre-season, or early on in the season. and And it kind of felt like he, did he even like start one of the early games or one of the first games? under ti you know Yeah. Well, he was, uh, well, maybe not, maybe not as famously as I thought, but he was the guy who replaced John Rowe and the o white yeah starting lineup and thats and then got injured off the back of that. Yeah. so But he's he was part of the plan, you know kind of or at least was was seen to you know possess something that that could add value to the club. It just doesn't work for him. So again, you'd have thought he's on fairly good money given that he came from a Champions League club. It's good to get him out of the door because he will not be part of the plans moving forward. We want to be more dynamic. We want to make sure that we've got more pace. He doesn't you know really possess any pace.
00:20:54
Speaker
um we want he doesn't really he's He's almost an attack in. Jakob Sรธrensen, in terms of technically quite adept, not dynamic in the slightest, does everything quite slowly. um And that's not really where I think Norwich need to be moving forward. So yeah, good to get them off the books. Hanley's a weird one. I think ah Again, I'd be really pleased if if we managed to get him out. What I worry about now is, and what seems to have been maybe evident in the recent run, where we've struggled to pick up points is it's another leader out of the door. And that dressing room looks to me like, you know, with the exception of probably Kenny McLean, Shane Duffy,
00:21:40
Speaker
are there any natural leaders there that you know you go, well, he's captain material. um I'm not so sure. And you know in any good side, you're probably looking at three, four, five different people. you You could look at them and go, well, yeah, you can give them the armband quite easily. I don't see that at Norwich at the moment. Maybe Angus, but again, you know kind of that's probably a conversation to be had about whether he's going to be here longer term, because it doesn't seem like he is.
00:22:04
Speaker
So I think that' that's the bit for me is that into this transfer window, I don't necessarily think that but we can buy leadership and it looks like that's not the type of profile of, or that's not the profile of player that Norwich are in the market for, but it's it's a gap. And I think it's something that that we may need to consider longer term.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think just a couple of comments from me in terms of Barnes and Fastenac, the interesting thing about them is the fact that they went back to the clubs they came from. I think that kind of speaks to the fact that ah They should never have happened, if you know what I mean. Ashley Barnes, I'm totally with you, um John, and in terms of, yeah, you should never have signed for Norwich City. Whoever wants to sign Ashley Barnes, I don't care, do what you want, but but our football club should never have been signing players like, or more specifically, Ashley Barnes. um That was just like a period of, as you described it as the banter era, that definitely could have been where Norwich City went.
00:23:02
Speaker
um I don't think they don't think we did, but it was bizarre. And i I sort of copy and paste that point to Fasten Act, who I think was a bit better at football than Ashley Barnes. But for me, utterly pointless. Just the whole thing was a complete waste of time. But we we do have the beauty of hindsight. Grant Hanley, for me,
00:23:20
Speaker
ah Again, I agree that it's good to get him off the books in terms of of those wages and and freeing up that sort of financial um ability to to perhaps sign someone else or you know several other people. But I do want to comment on the fact that I think he was a really good servant for Norwich. I think he did a lot of good for Norwich in terms of his ability on the ball.
00:23:42
Speaker
bit clumsy at times but I think the guy was was scapegoated at various periods. I always thought he was just a really solid defender. He was he was one of those people who who very rarely lost a header and he was weirdly quick as well sort of in his prime for Norwich. He sort of s scooted along the ground and and would get to balls that you wouldn't expect him to get to. and I'm grateful for him. My my feelings towards Fastenax and Barnes won't deter me from the fact that I am very grateful to Grant Hanley and and and the guys saw some well two championship title winning seasons for Nour actually. Let's not forget that and he played a
00:24:18
Speaker
I feel like a key role is probably a bit generous, but a fairly important role in in both campaigns to a degree. And I just want to kind of say thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm not going to go and describe them as a Norwich City legend, but I do think that as a signing, yeah, really good, really happy. And it will be sad to say bye. But we've we've got a value for money from from Grant Howley. Absolutely. You could confidently say that, you know, I mean, I ah think it was in the region of about two million quid, wasn't it, that we spent on him maybe a little bit more. but He's absolutely paid that back to the club. It's just, again, he doesn't look like a Janus Hoth Tourette player. And given the injury that that he sustained, you know, in terms of an Achilles rupture, you're never going to be the same player in terms of, you know, your your your ability to to run as fast, you know, his pace will have gone. And and as you quite rightly highlight, Ben, that was one of his main attributes, you know, as much as it was deceptive, he was.
00:25:09
Speaker
usually, you know, one of the quickest players at the club. um So he could get himself out of jail sometimes. And I just don't, I mean, you know, his turning circle is is quite wide.
00:25:20
Speaker
um
00:25:22
Speaker
That's a very, that's a very, yeah that's a diplomatic way to put it. it's's It's kind of crazy, isn't it, when you when you see players and their careers when they spend, because you spent a good amount of time here at Norwich, isn't it? Well, I think it was 2017, yeah. He was signed as the kind of... Oh, shit. Oh, shit. um Russell Martin and Marcel Franca aren't going to be sent back to Nari City, so we need another one, yeah. That is a... What a name, that is. Marcel Franca. Oh, unbelievable. Connor, let's talk about incomings then. I'm not going to make you crap, slash, repeat what we've just said about those three players. um In terms of incomings,
00:26:00
Speaker
The latest one is the activation of the claws that soar. And please put me right on the spot. What what is his like preferred name? Is it Ben Slimani? Anis Slimani? Ben Anis Slimani. So so we we were told it's Anis Ben Slimani. Yeah, you say all three, basically. Because I've i've heard various sort renditions across various commentators on Sky Sports. and At Cara Road, I think it's been said differently a couple of times. I'm just like, I don't understand what to say. So we'll say Slimani, which fit for I think for most Norwich City fans is a fairly positive thing. There is kind of this narrative and and I'm also guilty of it in terms of this idea that he's a bit injury prone. But we were talking before we started recording about perhaps that being a bit of a false narrative. So I just want to get your thoughts on Slimani signing for Norwich and perhaps why that narrative isn't as accurate as as one might think.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, very quickly. I mean, I've got nothing to add on Barnes, really, on what what you lad said. But I do i do have a stat, which I told Ben earlier, um to to be fair, which is that Stephen Naismith scored one more goal for Nouri City than Ashley Barnes did. And he played one game fewer. So i men clearly, there is ah there is a big fee to wrap around Naismith as well and and a hell of a lot of context behind that. but It's interesting nonetheless, maybe on on how those players are remembered, considering what is very, very shy. Both shy. I think Barnes has got one more assist than Naismith, so hey, yeah there you go. um Yeah, look, Slimani, I think he has, yeah, it is a bit of a false narrative, I think, and I think it's one that, it's weird, sometimes players can can kind of get stuck with this a little bit. I think it's a combination of a few things. The fact that
00:27:43
Speaker
He arrived at Norwich with a bit of it, or he had a hamstring injury at at Sheffield United, then joined Norwich, hasn't really had a pre-season, didn't really shake that off. Then Torup sort of made some comments about him needing to sort of prove his fitness levels, but I think that was more in terms of adjusting to the intensity of of championship football and free game weeks and that kind of thing. and showing that he's durable to that but actually you you look at his career so far he's played over 200 games at the age of 23 that's more than Marceline Nunez has played and he's a year older. um I'm sure there are other players as well he's played more than but I don't have time to go through the whole notion and compare that was just one ah and he's he's been pretty available as well. I think he's only missed four games with a hamstring injury
00:28:27
Speaker
And the one he picked up at Luton was a contact injury by all accounts, which, you know, that that's not to do with a player's fitness. That's just luck a lot of the time. And Carlton Morris, if Carlton Morris does you at a corner, I think most of us would probably feel it, to be honest, such is that the unit that that man is. So, um yeah, I think that's a little bit of an unfair label that he's been he's been attached with.
00:28:46
Speaker
In terms of the deal itself, I think the numbers on it are favorable to Norwich, 1.2 million for a 23-year-old who's ah an international footballer, who's played over 100 games in in the Super League or in Denmark, who's played Premier League football, albeit very briefly, for for Sheffield United. And actually, who before this injury, I thought we were beginning to see a real consistency of performance from and quality of performance from. I think Don't get me wrong, I think there clearly are issues around um maybe his his durability in in matches and whether he can go full 90 consistently. um and Those are probably bigger questions that we need to see over a bigger period, but I do think coming back from this injury, whenever that is, and hopefully as soon as possible in in in the next month or so,
00:29:28
Speaker
But I do think generally with a full preseason, with a fair wind, I think he could become a really good, useful player for Norwich. And that's not necessarily as someone who starts every game, but someone who impacts games in in in moments. I think he's added a ah really nice physicality to Norwich's midfield compared to some of the the options that they've got in there. And I think he's he's just a tidy footballer and and one that clearly Yohannesoft-Taurup knows really well. and you know we saw Farka do this, didn't we, in terms of you bring players that you know that that know your philosophy, that know your style, because they're so important for sort setting the culture. and And if you have more of them, Marconnez is another, and you can drop them in, then there's no need to be where you are with some of the younger guys, where there's a period of adaptation. These are the guys that can be dropped in and and are ready to go, because they don't have to learn a system, a ah new country. um So I think he's really valuable in in in that thing as well. I i don't see Norwich making out famous last words, but
00:30:20
Speaker
You don't see Norwich really losing out on on this type of fee. I mean, you mentioned value for money. I think if, if Slimani was fit for 20 games a season, really, and you got real quality out of him, then at 1.2 million quid, I think that's in in this day and age, are a really good sort of value for money as as to where they're at. So um yeah, makes, makes a lot of sense for me. And um I think he'll be a, he'll be a good player for Norwich who desperately wanted to come in the summer. He's desperate to stay. um And I think he's probably shown enough of his qualities in the first half of the season to make that deal permanent.
00:30:50
Speaker
That potential fee then is such an interesting one because with Norwich City, I mean, for all of my time supporting them, but especially, you know, post Stuart Weber arriving, the idea of spending over a million pounds on a player is like, oh um my God, we've spent over a million pounds on a player. But if you've seen Samane play,
00:31:11
Speaker
which we all have that just it does seem like an absolute bargain and and as you say Connor I think I agree in terms of this idea that he is not at the peak of his powers and his role in this squad very much seems like he he's going to be someone who who needs to come off in the 65th minute as you say because he might not have the legs and that's just the type of player he is you saw with Daniel Farkas first promotion season that Norwich had that kind of rotation of four, didn't they? They had Teti, Rancic, Tribal, Leitner, where they were all really good players operating in a similar era ah a area you know with a certain very high pedigree. so
00:31:50
Speaker
With Thorup, he's not quite had the opportunity to just rotate through quality midfielders. As you said earlier, John, it's been makeshift. How do we adapt and improvise and how do we almost survive at times, which has been, again, as it always is, just fascinating to watch. In terms of other incomings, John, I'm just going to read directly from from Tom's
Player Development and Team Potential
00:32:11
Speaker
notes. Don't be the house self signed for Norwich.
00:32:14
Speaker
your thoughts on on on Lewis Dobbin. He had an interesting couple of moments against Coventry didn't he, where my my preconception was based off Twitter because I am under 25 years old and i'm I'm very sorry that's just the sort of person I am, but I read a few things about West Brom fans sort of saying he's not great and one comment really stuck with me which he looks like he's won a lottery ah competition to to be able to to play professional football and in my brain I'm thinking oh god is it one of those again where he's being signed to do a job perhaps not even do a job a bit like Cade Gordon and there was a couple of dodgy touches when he came on
00:32:52
Speaker
But there were also some, I think it was, oh which goal was it before? I think it was just before the first goal where he had that little link up with someone and the term was was magical. Are you excited for for Dobbin to play for Norwich?
00:33:05
Speaker
Uh, excited would probably be overstating it, but I think, I think Torup spoke really, really well in the press conference about why they'd signed him. I think I can't remember the questions, John, weren't they? Yeah. it Well, that's it. That's it, mate. Yeah. It was Paddy was there, wasn't he? Um, no, but it was, it was clearly put to him, you know, look, his output hasn't been great. You know, there's been no goals, no assists, you know, kind of a, you've, you've got him, you know, he's available for a reason.
00:33:31
Speaker
um You know, he was sent back for a reason and Torrope spoke really well about what they'd seen in him and what he could potentially bring to the squad. And, you know, it wasn't necessarily about right at that top end, of it although that's where he plays, you know, it wasn't necessarily about goals and assists. It was about the positions that he can take up and the positions that he can get Norwich into, you know, as as a direct result of his running because short of on El Hernandez, we haven't really got anyone, you know, kind of who's a natural pacey runner, you know, sciences is one of those players who he's going to try and beat for, you know, through sheer will and skill. But, you know, apart from that, you know, that we haven't got those, that kind of type of player and an on El kind of gets to a point where
00:34:15
Speaker
Well, output is the question mark around around him again as well, isn't it? Although brilliant to see him get an assist on Saturday. Would you say you noticed that against Coventry then? Because when both on Elle and Dublin were on the pitch, I felt like, oh my god, this is the first time that we've kind of had pace on on both sides of the pitch. We were going at them, you know, we were absolutely yeah ah going at them. And look, you know, they'd retreated back into their shells, you know, kind of they were protecting what they had. and And quite rightly so, you know, we'd expect Norwich to do the same. But um i'm I think what I'm pleased about, you know and it's it's a wider point, is Norwich have a plan. Norwich really seem to have you know a thought-out transfer strategy where who we're bringing in is going to fit you know where we want to get to as a football club, and it hadn't felt like that for quite some time. It was it was almost you know kind of just
00:35:05
Speaker
just shooting fish in a barrel, but you know that's not the case anymore. um nor Norwich and Ben, you I think that Ben Nappa needs to take a lot of credit for this. the you know There's a very clear goal um and and that's that's what gives me confidence moving forward. I would like to see another winger, I think, to supplement that or another forward to supplement that. And I know there's been talk about there the lad from Slavia Prague. Is it Eurosec or it's something like that? I'm going to butcher his name. But anyway, um you know, and that seems like it's for money. You know, Ben, you you talk about um getting excited when we we saw players over a million pounds. I mean, you know, all right I know that we've We've had significant outgoings in terms of you know Sarah and Adam Ida and Jonathan Rowe, but you know we've signed players for eight and a half million quid this summer, and we might be signing another player for six million euros. you know kindy they ah That's kind of what gets you excited, isn't it? when you When you haven't heard their name and you're spending a bit of a fee on them, um you know you you can only get excited about left field signings from from you know kind of weird places in and Europe. So um yeah, it's the plan that excites me, not necessarily the individuals.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's nice to feel like that again, isn't it? It's nice to, to we're all looking in the same direction. We're all, I think, pulling in the same direction as well. So it's nice to have that sort of harmony of of look, let's buy into something, as I keep saying. And you mentioned, you know, this idea of of, do we need an extra forward? Would you like one? We've got one returning fairly imminently, which raises two points.
00:36:46
Speaker
his return, full stop, Josh Sargent, but two, Ante Sernacz and how he's filled that role and and the opportunity that was presented to him because Sernacz is an interesting one because technically I think he's brilliant. I think is a really i think he's just really good at football, if that makes sense.
00:37:04
Speaker
but and he's a very very young man playing in a foreign country in a very very arguably the toughest league in well definitely in the country possibly one of the tougher leagues in you know Europe the world whatever the championship is a beast that will swallow you whole in terms of seeing that same corner that's where I want to start what's your assessment on on him full stop and and we're not going to totally judge him we're not going to write him and we're not going to do any of that nonsense but he's played up front enough times to get an idea of of where he's at what are your thoughts and potentially how does that make you feel about Asajj return
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think almost the the problem with seeing that is the fear, isn't it? Because I think if we we were talking about a player that Norwich hadn't spent eight and a half million quid on, then I think maybe the the view of him and the feeling around him would be significantly different. and And that's harsh on him really, because that's something that he doesn't really have any control why he doesn't have any control over whatsoever. That's just a ah price that two clubs um agree for him and and he doesn't get any say whatsoever. It's then up to him, obviously, if he if he takes the move and the financials around that. I think it's easy to forget how incredibly young he is. I mean, he's he's literally only just turned 21 in the last but month or so. He's is's younger than Callum Doyle. He's younger than Lewis Dobbin. He's younger than a Manquil Forson. He's younger than than Liam Gibbs. If you want to play that game, he's even younger than Jayden Warner, Tony Springett, you know, a couple of of these guys. He is a very, very young man. And I think that you're right. The technical skill set that he has is is not in doubt. I think for me,
00:38:36
Speaker
ah particularly over the last couple of games, I just think he's looked absolutely knackered, if I'm honest. um I think he's he's looked fatigued and that's probably inevitable given the amount of football that he's been exposed to because Josh Sargent's been out, but equally the intensity of of what has been a pretty hectic festive period. um Of course, he came on a luten probably earlier than anyone expected because of Slim Arnie's injury. So um he's not really had probably much rest and much luck within that. I think there's a really talented player in there and I could see at some point him absolutely exploding, um to be honest, in terms of output and goals. I think for him, it's it's a little bit more development in terms of probably the work off the ball um and mostly his positioning and some of the runs he makes. I think he's quite static at times. I thought he struggled against ah a back free on Saturday and was just kind of a yard off it in terms of his position at points.
00:39:27
Speaker
But there's there's clearly a ah very technically gifted, talented player. The club bought him as a striker, so this idea that he's he's not, I guess, he is is interesting. he' you know and and We saw Sargent suffer this to an extent, where there's such a good player playing up front, and you almost have to favour their development in terms of getting them lots of minutes whilst they're young to develop them, rather than perhaps their position. So it might not be until Sargent moves on that Norwich really see the best of anti-Cienats.
00:39:52
Speaker
I like him i like what i've seen i think yeah as i said there's there's areas that clearly need development i think they will develop with time he's only six months into what is his second country in 18 months he obviously spent a year in Poland as well and the first half of his of his time at Raquel was was quite slow as well so there are some parallels there so Yeah, all ah all all in all, I think there is a talent there. I think it's just about time. And as I said, the problem is when someone when a team like Norwich spend eight and a half million quid on a player, a lot of fans think, right, this is someone who's who's here for the is you know ready and he's going to be dropped in and score a load of score 20 goals in the championship. And that's not the reality. He is an investment um as he's forcing, you know, so I wouldn't necessarily pay attention to their fees to an extent. I remember there being a lot of similar conversations around Josh Sargent, whether Norrie City overpaid for him. And
00:40:41
Speaker
now that looks like an absolute steal doesn't it in in terms of the business they did so I think actually for him it's it's it's not about this season it's about next season and maybe even the season after that and then definitely the season after that so um yeah the the foundations are there I think for a pretty talented player it's just about coaching and time and adaptation and probably bulking up a little bit as well like like Sargent has for me.
00:41:03
Speaker
Well, over the past, I'd say 10 years, maybe slightly more, the bar for eight and a half million pound strikers is very, very low. um So I think that plays in his favor. He's very quick as well, seeing that. I think he's... You mentioned his off the ball game and how that needs to improve. The the one thing I always notice and that I think is a product of some coaching is he's gone from just not going for headers at all to he will now stare directly at the centre back and run at them and then just give a foul away.
00:41:38
Speaker
I'm like come on you've got to master the art that that Grant Holt perfected the knowledge of not looking at them but clattering them that that is a fine art in the championship that that can be mastered and I look forward to to giving him the time to do that. um In terms of the Sarge return then John is that where does that leave you with your expectation for the rest of the season because I think it was almost this time last year wasn't it where we were all just sort of you know twiddling our thumbs going oh god I really miss Josh Sarge and and his return Again, I don't think he was fully fit. As you mentioned earlier, he never looked fully sharp, but it did then spark something in Norwich. So do you look at him as an individual who's going to come back and have this great big impact on the squad, or do you just see it as another body in a position where we're quite light at the moment? um As I think I mentioned before, he's probably in the top three strikers in the championship. If not, you know, and I've heard Connor describe me before as, you know, probably the most complete number nine and in the championship.
00:42:38
Speaker
He is someone that will have been on, and well, it's definitely on, um you know, many Premier League clubs radar in in terms of, you know, the player that he is because of the physical attributes that he has. And those physical attributes are absolutely what Norwich have a missing. You know, you've just talked about anti Cernax defects.
00:42:59
Speaker
Josh Sargent can do those all, you know, kind of, he's in an absolute rough house when he wants to be, you know, he he's really considered in terms of the runs that he makes now. And, you know, kind of, and he can actually make his own goals. And and I think that's the thing for me is that. I thought about this the other day had Marcelino Nunez not got injured and has had Josh Sargent not got injured. Where would Norwich actually be in the table right now? You know, if we, if we'd have had, you know, say 20 games out of the both of them and 20 league games out of the both of them by now, I think we'd be top six. I think, I think we'd be comfortably top six right now and and be having different conversations about what the season holds.
00:43:38
Speaker
So his fitness, Marcelino Nunez, who for me right now is Nori City's most important player, you know, their fit their respective fitness levels are probably going to be key to to where we end up. But now I'm super excited about it because We've been leaning on Baja science for, you know, all season pretty much. And he's just run out of gas right now and he's starting to make some pretty poor decisions. And he's starting to do things that he wouldn't have done a couple of months ago, possibly out of desperation, possibly because he's got, you know, two or three players marking him at any one time.
00:44:12
Speaker
He needs a hand and Josh Sargent has absolutely proved that he is an excellent foil for science. So the two of them together in the championship, you know, it could be the recipe to, or it could be the springboard really to propel us to what could be, you know, really great season. Um, but yeah, we've just got to be careful with the lad and that's the problem, isn't it? You know, I think he came in after what probably, I mean, he'd probably been out a little bit longer, hadn't he last season. I think it was from that Huddersfield game right up until maybe just before or just after Christmas when he returned against Southampton, was it, Conor? Am I dreaming that? Yeah. When he got the equaliser. So he'd been out longer last season, but he still hit the ground like a steam train and really added value quite quickly.
00:44:59
Speaker
I just want people to temper their expectations and and hope that because of the style of football that
Season Comparison and Key Players
00:45:06
Speaker
Torrott plays and it is a bit more, you know, kind of in terms of um the press that the forwards are expected to do sometimes when the team's fully functioning.
00:45:16
Speaker
just just want to make sure that we're careful with him because if we can nurture him back into, you know, ah as a starting player over the next two or three weeks that can, you know, he's consistently playing 60 and then maybe 70 and then maybe 80 and then 90 minutes regularly. um Yeah, it could be really good again.
00:45:34
Speaker
It's interesting because, again, <unk>ve we've always got to compare to last season because, as you said, Connor, it's the nature of of football. Where Norwich were this time last year, ah did you say Connor was in a worse position? or and i think I think we're two points better off this season than we were last year. Something like that. It's a point or two, isn't it?
00:45:54
Speaker
1.2 places I think yeah, it does it does sort of suggest that well, there's plenty of football to be played or any halfway through the season there's there's no reason that Norwich City can't go and kick on and You know when you look at just the table have a similar finish However, this time it feels like we've built towards that or we're building towards that whereas last season let's just get Sergeant back and hope that he can work his magic. And for the record, you know, myself, I'm um really excited to have just Sergeant back. I think he's absolutely brilliant. He is probably, in terms of, like it's it's I don't know if it's niche or not, it's it's slightly weird, but as a dribbler as and and a striker, I think he's arguably technically one of the the better strikers I've seen play for Norwich in my time. I think on the ball, he's absolutely superb. I do genuinely think the worst part of his game
00:46:42
Speaker
is the finishing and he he has this weird like weird technique he hits the ball with. I think he is just and I'm definitely ripping the quote from someone but I've always thought it he is so clearly the product of the American college system where they are just like ruthless athletes they are so athletic they're so quick they're so physical arguably to an extent where he will do himself harm but I don't know just such a such a joy to watch and also it has nothing to do with the fact that he's ginger I promise you absolutely nothing to do with that
00:47:17
Speaker
um we've We've definitely strayed too far beyond the Christmas return and I want to wrap things up by looking forward. John, I think you've kind of given your your monologue on on where Norwich are potentially going and and and why there is reason to to be excited. Was there anything you wanted to add and any sort of lingering points that you want to get out there before we um we say goodbye?
00:47:39
Speaker
Uh, not massively. No, I think it's, it's just Marcellino, isn't it? and And for me, the worry right now is that Norwich haven't got him tied down to a longer term contract because I think it's contractual status. I'm not sure if there's any options involved, but 2026, I think is when it expires. Um, if we get to the summer and he hasn't signed something, I think we may be have to cash in if that lad wants out and that Look, we shouldn't be reliant on one player, but he just feels ready-made for Johannes Hofthorup and what he wants to do. and
00:48:14
Speaker
The player of the season trophy, Barry Butler, is almost decided ah you know as it stands. you know it's It's going to be Boerhear Sainz. But as I said a moment ago, Marcelino is the player who makes us tick. And I think it was Chrissie Gorham that said not so long back is when Marcelino Nunez plays well, Norwich play well. And I think that's absolutely succinctly put. So wrap him in cotton wool when he's he's not playing and get that man a new contract.
00:48:39
Speaker
um John, how are you going to feel when in that top three ballhouse signs comes first, Nina second, how are you going to feel when Shane Duffy comes third? Interesting. Um, he's been really good, isn't he? He's been really, he's been really, really good. And, um, I really didn't see that coming. Um, and I don't think Shane Duffy saw it coming and I don't think you had a soft tour up, saw it coming. He's looked, you know, for all the off the field stuff. And, you know, I've had my say about that. And ah I still feel he probably should have been sacked at the time, but he wasn't, and he's got his head down and he's playing really good football and he's actually looking almost like.
00:49:16
Speaker
prime, you know, kind of peer low in terms of his passing ability sometimes as well. You know, he, he has really, really stepped up to the plate. And I think if, if the Barry Butler was being decided now, I think he should be in the top three. I think that's, that's completely legitimate. It is a thought I had on Saturday.
00:49:35
Speaker
I was like, oh, I think he's been a top three player this season. And that was like, again, we did this whole us this time last year. If you just, you know, I think I would have thought I would gone fully insane if that thought had occurred to my mind last year that oh in a year's time, you'll love Shane Duffy. um Just one more thing to add. And I want to do this whilst Thomas Parley isn't on the podcast.
00:49:57
Speaker
um don't think but I don't think we're gonna miss Kenny, like, if he has to dip out. And I know that that same's mad when he's been out for such a long period of time and we've struggled, but I actually think he's been...
00:50:08
Speaker
quite off the pace in the last two or three games. And um he's made quite he made quite a few mistakes on Saturday and he made quite a few mistakes um a couple of games previously. and It was almost like he was um quite wasteful in possession. um So yeah, i think I think if we build on an axis of Slimani and Nunez, I'd be quite happy with that.
00:50:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's weird with Kenny quickly, isn't it? Because I watched the the latest on the, is it on the ball? No, not on the ball. c view yeah fine things yeah City Whatever the documentary is, where Jack Wilshire was, he actually said one of the first things that Thorp sort of gave to him was look how good and how important Kenny McLean is. so In my mind, I always bear that in mind.
00:50:55
Speaker
But I completely agree. I think he's been a bit clumsy, but also he, I think he seems to be shouldering a slightly different responsibility where he he almost is a focal point of this Norwich City team where I think he's great. I think he has been great. You know, there have probably been an equal amount of times where I want to slap him in the face as to where I want to, you know, kiss him on the cheek. I think he's been shoehorned into being a defensive midfielder when he's not really a defensive midfielder. And I think that's the issue. that isn't Yeah. Yeah. and And that's the, so for me, you know, look, he's absolutely a valuable part of the, the midfield kind of maybe five that we'll end up with that, that might rotate in a three, you know, if we're talking about, you know, like you said,
00:51:32
Speaker
earlier Ben about, you know, the way in which Farka dipped players in and out, dependent on opposition. I just don't think he's a DM. And, you know, and and i I think that, I mean, how old is he now? He's got to be over 30, you know, 31, 32. So he's getting towards the back end of his career. And I just don't think he is what he was. And I don't think he suits the Tourette system, as well as perhaps some of the other players that we've signed.
00:52:01
Speaker
Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens in in regards to that. Southwell, anything to add in terms of the direction of Norwich City and and perhaps, I don't know, a rallying cry. Tell us all it's going to be all right. ah No, not really. I enjoyed the conversation on Duffy. I think if you'd have been in Austria ah for pre-season when he got overlooked, when Cordoba and Kellan Fischer dropped out of the friendly against Hoffenheim because of injury and illness and the subsequent anger that he had, I don't think anyone would have anticipated that he'd become ah the player at this stage of the season who's played more minutes than anyone else under the Jana Salf-Torup.
00:52:35
Speaker
I think it's been a little bit of a surprise for everybody. And, you know, I, you know, I grew with John, I think in terms of if you'd have polled Norwich fans coming out of the away and the Ellen road after that playoff semi-final defeat. And the question was, do you want Duffy to stay? Yes or no. I think about 10 people, um maybe with their last name being Duffy would have said yes. I think otherwise it would have been fairly conclusive.
00:52:56
Speaker
but it's a credit to to him how hard he's worked, how willing he's been to work as well because he was he was well down the pecking order in pre-season looking up and I think most professionals 32 with the career behind him that he's got would have gone nah don't fancy this and would have wouldve gone somewhere else and the fact that he's rolled his sleeves up and actually fought You know, actually, I'm going to prove why I should be in this team and that I'm good enough and I can play on the ball. And I think there was always an outside chance. You know, people were talking about, oh you know, he played on the Grand Potter, but he did that for, I think, for about eight games. um So there was always a chance that maybe he could do it. But I think how well he's done it and how consistently he's done it, I think he's probably surprised everyone.
00:53:33
Speaker
um As for Norwich generally, no, not really. i think I think there's going to be more sort down points as well throughout the the second half of this season and and up points as well. I mean, Norwich is next to league games as Sheffield United and leads away, so that might be a sobering um return to to reality. But I think now it's just kind of wanting to see more progress and wanting to see this style of play over I don't know, 20 odd more games and seeing how far they can get with it and how good they can get with it. Because when it's been really good, it's outplayed Burnley for 45 minutes. It's outplayed Sunderland for 45 minutes. Well, the next challenge is can they do it for 60? Can they do it for 90? And when we get to that stage, I think that's when um we'll be in a position to talk about Norrie City and
Upcoming Matches and Conclusion
00:54:14
Speaker
promotion. I don't think we're quite there yet. but
00:54:16
Speaker
hey it's a nice problem to have and as John said I think if if Sargent can come back and they can get a good run and they've got some some favorable home games I can't take the stat because Chris Gorham told me it and I think it's something along the lines if they've got eight teams in the bottom half to play at Carrow Road um between now and the end of the season and they've basically got to go to every one of the top teams away so it might be quite similar to last year where they have a pretty good home record and a pretty dire away record but we'll see so no I'm excited and seeing how it all pans out and if the first half of the season has anything to go by then it certainly won't be dull. I was going to say yeah it should certainly be very uh yeah fascinating interesting scary joyful to watch chaps it's been an absolute pleasure I've really enjoyed
00:55:01
Speaker
talking about in our city with a genuine smile on my face for the first time in, well, since Saturday, really. um Thank you all very much for listening. Leave your your ratings and your thoughts and your comments across social media um on the podcasting platforms. Have you so wish to do it? I'm sure we will all be back in your ears. Once again, Mr. Pun's got his hand up.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to say, like, for for anyone that's getting excited that Tom Parsley has left the podcast, you know, he is he is purely a one-week absentee and he will be back, you know, before long. But but we're very pleased that Ben Ambrose is going to be a more regular feature of the pod now. And you are one of, I think, three people to be very pleased about that. So I will hold that very dearly to my heart. Again, thank you all very much for listening and we'll see you again very soon.