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"Dribbling Spaghetti" ACN Pod 131
816 Plays8 months ago
Edie, Jon & Tom look ahead to Leeds (h) & (a), discuss Wagner's future, and engage in some early speculation on squad refreshing as the window hurtles towards its grand opening. But for which league will we be recruiting? (We think we know).
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Knowledge podcast. A plentiful plutocracy of plagiarism as we plunge a plethora of playoff platitudes at your ear holes. Johnny P and EDM are both with me for this one.
Football Managers as Dogs: A Humorous Take
00:00:34
Speaker
ED, do we need to start by saying fair play to David Wagner?
00:00:39
Speaker
Hello, yes. Well, yes. But isn't that just weird that we're just sort of kind of patting the little pooch on the noggin and saying, you did good, buddy. It's just a very football, is it? You tried your best. Yes. It's better than we were. He has pulled us out of a bit of a hole. But I don't know.
00:01:07
Speaker
We need a kind of XL bully that can get the fangs out and go, nah, and he's more of a kind of... He's injured. Ashley Barnes is injured. He's about as XL bully as we get, isn't he? But we need a managerial XL bully, I think, rather than someone that just looks like, just always a little bit scared in his eyes. Like he's got these huge dark eyes, which are really cute.
00:01:34
Speaker
But, and that would get him picked up at the dog pound. You definitely adopt him first, but like, is he going to perhaps be a safe pair of kind of like, you know, bullish hands for what comes next? Okay. Manages as dogs. ED is down at the local dog pound. You've decided it's time to adopt her.
00:01:54
Speaker
They're not puppies. These are sort of rescue dogs, two, two and a half, three, but relatively well trained, you hope. Think in terms of dog terms, Gary Rowett, Daniel Farker, David Wagner, and Eddie Howe. They're the dogs that are left in their kind of rescue home. Who are you taking home? Who are you adopting?
00:02:18
Speaker
It's a tricky one because they're so generic, aren't they? Like none of those dogs would guard a trap house successfully and that's what I'd be looking for, managerial-y. Not Rowet? You don't think Gary Rowet's got a bit of ankle bite in him? Ankle bite? Yeah, but you want someone that's going to like spot a jacula. Someone that probably like the Daily Mail would start a campaign against.
00:02:41
Speaker
I think Gary Rowett would hate a postman. He would definitely be a posty buddy. What about you? Which of those managers, if they were dogs, do you think you'd take home? Not Gary Rowett. Gary Rowett seems to hate everyone, and I don't know why. Can I just share with you very quickly though, because you just mentioned Ashley Barnes, and it just popped into my head whilst you mentioned Ashley Barnes.
00:03:05
Speaker
my eldest child commented that he is going bald disgracefully, which he is. But she likened, she went, she went, dad, his hair looks like, you know, when you bite into a cream egg and then you've got all the chocolatey bits just kind of like just there, just kind of, and he was like, just looks like that. I was like, yeah, it really does. Like he looks like the top of a cream egg that you've just bitten into. Anyway, if Ashley Barnes is listening to this, I'm sorry, but shave your head, mate.
Performance and Humorous Anecdotes
00:03:32
Speaker
What were the options again?
00:03:34
Speaker
And Gary Rower, who we've thought you don't seem to be impressed with, he's done a very good job. I think they have like mid table points per game, like under his shoes here. I didn't realize that actually Cole was on the coaching staff there. That completely, I was watching it on Saturday and suddenly realized
00:03:53
Speaker
and quite a laugh look a lot like Ashley Cole and then I saw the AC on his on his breast and realized oh he was um anyway so it's him David Wagner um Daniel Farker and Eddie Howe because Eddie Howe was to me he's like a sort of thick golden retriever sort of stupid lab sort of character sort of basic dog yeah and basic in a lot of ways you know that might you know about my disdain for Eddie Howe I think that's why you've thrown it into the mix to be fair
00:04:20
Speaker
Daniel, it wasn't that. It's the fact that I was just thinking who's a bit like dogs and they're the people I think are like dogs. I think I immediately thought sort of yellowy lab and Eddie Howe first name came to mind.
00:04:34
Speaker
Daniel Farka's hair, if it was blonder, would remind me of like Dougal from the Magic Roundabout, you know, that kind of lovely center parting and then just kind of flops. One of those Tibetan guard dogs where the kind of underbite comes out. Well, yeah, we've got one of them. It's Laza Rapso. Yeah. Could you ask your eldest what she thinks about
00:04:57
Speaker
how Daniel Farka is going board, because he's obviously got a board spot right on the top towards the back, but he's currently obviously able to grow, he's follically gifted around most of the rest of the follicles. So I'd be interested, which confectionery, I mean, we are off, we were off piece early here, which confectionery is, so come back for the kind of the recap pod we do
Promotion Ambitions and Emotional Stakes
00:05:20
Speaker
after the play. I want to know what she thinks about that.
00:05:23
Speaker
I'll make sure that's the sole topic of conversation on the way to Carrow Road on Sunday. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd just take Farka out of them not because it's Daniel Farka, isn't it? And you know, we won't cast any dispersions about his private life or anything on this pod like, you know, other people might be at the moment. Cool. Okay. So Edie, what was all that carry on on Saturday then? Why, why did we not bother at all and seem so satisfied too?
00:05:47
Speaker
You know, why we, do you think we, do you think it's as cynical as we really fancied, we really fancied sixth place. He really fancied, he thought that from what he's seen in the games where we've been outplayed against leads so far this season, he thought, yeah, but the third time will be different because we seem to be playing to lose.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's been the story so far. So many times, the kind of little explanation afterwards has been, well, you know, we didn't want to knock our pens out for this one. And so it wouldn't surprise me if that's the case. And I'm kind of secretly in agreement that that might be a good strategy. I mean,
00:06:27
Speaker
It's like if we want to develop a long-term campaign, maybe that's the way that we do it, rather than just running at everything screaming and then falling over and breaking our ankles. Well, I'm glad I don't want to break their ankles. Speaking of injuries, though, punt surely, Johnny Rose starts Sunday against Leeds.
00:06:52
Speaker
Okay, if I look at the body of evidence of Johnny Rowe's performances since he's come out from injury, no, not for me. I think he would be best served as a bench weapon and to strike fear into Lee's heart. But has he really, apart from that Preston game where he came on and there was a really presentable 25 minute cameo where I wonder whether he was getting through on adrenaline alone,
00:07:17
Speaker
Has he come on and affected a game and looked dangerous and being the Johnny Rowe that he was pre-injury? Absolutely not. And I think if you're looking at it on form, should he be anywhere near the starting 11? No.
Player Positions and Midfield Control
00:07:31
Speaker
I'm hoping Fasten Act is fit because then that allows Nunez to obviously play in his more natural position and Sarah to play in the 10, which I think is probably as strong as we can get right now.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yes, Sarah out wide was not enjoyable at all and it was really disappointing. I don't think that in of itself is an issue though. It's the fact that Marceline and Nunez had to be kind of shifted into the 10, which then just left us without a degree of control in the middle of the park. That was the main issue for me.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yes, with Sorensen I thought I had a really poor game and I think he played himself out of the team on Sunday. Was it just tiredness from New Baby or was he actually injured? No, I think there was a knock and I think they're probably in the business of last game of the season, we're kind of in the playoffs. They're not going to risk players. It might have been one of those situations whereby if we'd have needed the points, he'd have been in. But yeah, I think they expect him to be fit for Sunday.
00:08:29
Speaker
I mean, I was having a look at the Leeds news to see whether or not, because they had three relatively important players that were injury doubts coming out of their last game of the season. But unfortunately, it seems like they're all going to be fit. So Daniel James and Patrick Bamford are expected to be available. And also Somerville, they were sort of talking down how bad the outcome was after the game.
00:08:56
Speaker
Not having Somerville, I think, is the biggest impact based on having watched them this season. He's one who is going to be in the Premier League, you would think, irrelevant of how Leeds' campaign finishes.
00:09:09
Speaker
Edie, going back to what we were saying about wanting to finish six
Season's Drama and Future Hopes
00:09:12
Speaker
and play Leeds, whilst they've not lost at Coward Road in six years, they've also failed the last five times they've been in the playoffs. Their fans are not keen at all, so maybe of the four teams, well, obviously we can't play ourselves, of the three teams, maybe they're the ones we wanted? I think so, but also doesn't it feel like there's sort of an element of fate woven through this season? And it's kind of part of this epic
00:09:38
Speaker
10-part HBO drama that's actually Jan and Farka's story. I think our main character era is over and we're the context rather than the protagonist. That's an interesting take. I think he's obviously had the Russia
00:09:58
Speaker
experience would have been an interesting episode. I mean, that would have been, that's the sort of thing where maybe that's the episode that people who aren't a huge fan of the series talk about. Oh, no, but that was really well done. And that might be, that might be an art episode that happens in the woods or that weird one of the last of us, which was about two characters. They're only in it for that sort of tiny thing, like the episode three or whatever it was. Yeah, but there's your Emmys. Yeah. Well, this is it. Yeah. And if you've played the game, like it's brilliant backstory anyway. Okay. That's a different podcast.
00:10:27
Speaker
Okay, not one I've listened to. So, Pun, so you're saying that we're going to go effectively as we were, but Sorensen for Fastenact on Sunday, right? Yeah, that is what I'm saying. And what is your current feeling around, a really simple answer. Irrelevant of how likely you think the outcome is, do you even want to get promoted?
00:10:53
Speaker
Ooh, that's the, yeah, I was having this discussion the other day with a couple of people. Okay, I would love to be promoted.
00:11:02
Speaker
for the looks on my children's faces when we go and win at Wembley and you have that. Everyone remembers what it feels like when we were at Wembley and the whole squad are parading the pitch and Alex Neal was right in front of us, fist pumping and then he had the trophy and he's just going bananas and it was just the end of a remarkable ride.
00:11:23
Speaker
like my kids haven't had that yet. I've had that and I think, you know, I could live with the fact that we wouldn't be in the Premier League and it would all be fine because we all know what the Premier League brings. But football is about moments, right? Football is
00:11:39
Speaker
that's what you remember. So I will remember way more the 90 minutes at Wembley and the Jerome and the Redmond and all the rest of it than I will the season that ensued and the Stephen Naismith and all the rest of the nonsense that we had to put up with.
00:12:00
Speaker
So I think, would I like to be promoted? Yes. But then would I almost like to be promoted and then, you know, go into some different league where we, we could be way more competitive and, you know, we could just drop the top six out of the premier league and, and, you know, make it a level playing field. That would be my, my ideal answer because football's broken.
VAR Effectiveness Debate
00:12:21
Speaker
Um, you know, so you've going back to the moment, you have to take the moments when they're presented to you.
00:12:26
Speaker
So you're basically taking a moment knowing that every moment then comes with an asterisk the following season, because every goal you score, you then can't celebrate it until VAR finishes ruining football. Yeah, yeah, essentially. But I just wonder with VAR, though, whether the tide has started to turn so much that we might just see the back of it in the next two, three years. It's just everyone hates it, like apart from the referees that administer it. Well, and Sky TV. Yeah, I mean,
00:12:56
Speaker
You say everyone hates it, the armchair fans of the big teams, which is what the Premier League care about more than anything, what Sky care about more than anything, they only hate it when it goes against their team. They all think, they all got, and it makes me laugh because they're ridiculous bunches, ridiculous way to like football in my opinion, which I've said many times before, but anyway.
00:13:22
Speaker
They all have got like VAR versions of all of the other team's names. So, you know, like Arsenal fans refer to Liverpool as Liverpool and, you know, Liverpool fans refer to Arsenal as VAR. They all think that they are the most hard done by and that's their only kind of issue with it.
00:13:40
Speaker
They don't actually have anywhere near as much issue with being in the ground because they're hardly ever in the ground, the overwhelming majority of those fans. And because that is actually the audience that they care most about because that drives subscriptions, I can't...
00:13:55
Speaker
I don't think it's ever going to go away. What I'm hoping for is that we might get to a point where they put a time limit on it or they make tweaks to the game with regards to, you know, they already made a concession in terms of drawing lines, you know, in the build, you know, so we didn't see the lines during the building. They, you know, the closest we can get to a fix, I think, or the most realistic things
League Expectations and Strategies
00:14:17
Speaker
I hope for is that they give the VAR assistance 30 seconds
00:14:23
Speaker
And if it's not clear and obvious in that 30 seconds, that is the on field decision stands. And, and because I was, I was watching some football at the weekend, like that decision that Kai Havert's the penalty.
00:14:36
Speaker
and the Arsenal got where it was you could easily see it either way easily. But I think I think the referee didn't give it. I think the referee waved it away and then they changed it to a panic. I think it was that way around. But the point is it was minutes went by. Now I'm sitting on the sofa watching it. I'm not in the ground. I'm not got absolutely no interest in either team. I'd rather Arsenal win it probably just for a change. But, you know, no stake in any of it. So as in win the Premier League, you know, say what?
00:15:06
Speaker
The. It annoyed me, even as an armchair fan, that was just like, well, we're just watching the same replay from the same angle. It's not even like we're going through each angle one at a time. It was several minutes of watching the same angle, getting no closer to any objectivity or any real clarity, because it's just going to be one bloke's call. But that bloke is sitting in, you know, a port cabin outside or in whatever the name of the place and George's park or wherever they do it. So if all we're doing is moving it from one bloke's opinion, but he gets to watch it 10 times.
00:15:34
Speaker
from the one bloke's opinion, he was actually on the grass.
00:15:37
Speaker
We haven't gained anything. We only gained something if you set it to a 30 second timer so that if it's absolutely egregious and you're gonna be hauled over the coals for this, because it's so obviously incorrect, like that time when the ball went past the goal and they thought it went in, that sort of ridiculous element or someone's punched someone in the face just off camera or whatever, 100% that should be called out. But you see that on the first replay and you immediately cut it down. And that effectively means that you can,
00:16:05
Speaker
You've only got to wait just a few seconds until you celebrate. But do you? But do you? Because do they then have to call the ref and make sure the on-field ref is still happy with it? Well, this is the thing. I think the calling the ref over is another thing they can just get rid of. It's an inevitability as soon as they call him or her over. I think I've seen it once where they've gone over and gone, no, no, no, I don't agree. I think I was right first time. I think I've seen that once. And so based on that statistical probability,
00:16:34
Speaker
It's then an even bigger call for the ref to make to say, no, no, I'm going to overrule VAR and stick with my on-field decision. So as far as I'm concerned, they can just do away with that screen on the side because everyone knows as soon as they jog over, all the decisions going to go the opposite way to what's just been given. So in that scenario, just do it like cricket and just say, look, if the third match official says it's that, then it's that, the end. Rugby third match official. What's the TV one? Just TV umpire in it in cricket. Yeah. Anyway.
00:17:03
Speaker
Edie, do you want to get promoted or not? No. It's a really quick one. So there's so much going on, like Ipswich having their promotion, like just let them have their moment right now. Let them go and get that sudden shock of cold water that we've experienced all these seasons.
00:17:22
Speaker
I think it's time to take a step back, let Nappa build what he needs to build in relative. The more scrutiny these people get, the harder it's going to be to build something for the future. So I think it's probably time, this is going to be the season, it's the full field rotation system. This is the year that the field is fallow.
00:17:45
Speaker
Maybe it's time for Delia to just sort of quietly hand over some more reins of power. Maybe it's time for some kinds of less personal decisions to be made and just to build some football on a kind of more professional level. Can I add to that point, Edie? Something I was thinking about with regards to Napa and that is not necessarily professional or long term.
00:18:16
Speaker
it will force short-termism into Napa's plans. So this is the thing that I think undid Weber. It was the fact that he and Farka got to the Premier League too quickly, and it meant that all of a sudden they were forced into maybe not having, they probably didn't have the depth of scouting and the depth of plan
00:18:40
Speaker
that they had maybe a year or two hence. They maybe wanted a couple of their players to be a couple of years older by the time they got there in terms of the youth team. They're expecting Max to be a bit more developed. They're expecting Todd to be a bit more developed, et cetera. And therefore, maybe they had to rush it a bit. And when we know that a team of the size of Norwich, we have to hit on 90% of our transfers. They need to be basically first teamers, or we're not going to stay up.
00:19:08
Speaker
I very much hope that Ipswich lose every single week.
Ipswich Town's Future and Fanbase Expectations
00:19:14
Speaker
We've got a question, haven't we, from the listener questions pump. Might as well hit that now as it's relevant with regards to watching them, what was it, lift or qualify for a European conference or something?
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, this is from our friend Matthew McGregor. Can the panel predict how sick they'll feel when it's which qualify for the Europa Conference next season? And I kind of think they're going to do all right. I think they're going to stay up and I'm happy to be proven massively wrong on that. Oh, you know, I'd be ecstatic to see them fail and have a record low points all and all the rest of it. But I think you're facing that on there. I mean, if you look at if you look at the momentum Burnley had
00:19:54
Speaker
Look at the momentum that's like, if you look at the three that are at the bottom, if it wasn't for the points deductions, the three teams that went up would have already. Oh, they'd be completely cut adrift. And it's nothing more than like almost self-protectionism that, you know, maybe it's going to happen. But actually there is a part of me and there was a part of me that thought,
00:20:13
Speaker
Luton might do a bit better and they would probably do the best out of the three promoted teams. I just think Kieran McKenna is an exceptional coach. There's no getting away from that because the players... No, I don't think so. I've seen his team totally not show up in the biggest game of their season, of their fans' lives. I think that's psychology. And I don't know if he showed them. I think it's important being a coach.
00:20:36
Speaker
I don't know if he failed them or whether those players just weren't potentially prepared for that occasion in the way that they should be. Well, that's a good point. But what I would say is that everything that I've seen this season when I've seen them in any games apart from the Derby or most games apart from the Derby, they've looked like an exceptionally coached football team and we can't get away from that.
00:21:03
Speaker
coupled with Ipswich's American pension fund or wherever their money's coming from, I think are going to invest. Because actually, to chuck a bit of money at it and to get a Premier League club that's been there for a couple of seasons is much more of a decent exit strategy in terms of their investment than it is if they come straight back down to the championship. And I think this would happen under the Atanasios as well. I think the next time Norwich get promoted, we will throw a bit more money at it because it's just
00:21:33
Speaker
wiser from a longer term investment style. I think Ipswich are going to follow suit. But what I think they will do well, like they did this summer, is they will probably put not necessarily bigger money, but smart money into smart players. And I think McKenna is absolutely kind of home and hosed in terms of being able to develop those players. He's proven it already. And that's why I think they might do all right.
00:22:01
Speaker
Actually, the style of football that they play and the quality of players that they have should not be Premier League ready. Daniel Farker found that out in the most spectacular of failures in that first season. But I don't know, there's just a niggling feeling that the momentum factor and the almost looks really easy to draw parallels with Paul Lambert and what he did in terms of successive promotions. But we were fucking brilliant when we went up under him.
00:22:25
Speaker
They don't have though. They don't have a seasoned supporter base like Norwich has a supporter base that has decades of experience and pragmatism and they know to be able to handle
00:22:40
Speaker
Now, if you look at, I don't know what the proportion of new fans is. Some have suggested it's like 15,000 new fans in Ipswich. By and large, from what I've seen waiting on the train station at Ipswich to change trains, very young, very, shall we say, not very seasoned or experienced young men. Or intelligent. Maybe. I did see some breathing through mouths. Of course you did.
00:23:08
Speaker
And perhaps thicker than as usual. I think maybe some vegetables might come in handy. But anyway, yeah, I was just watching them having a big scrap against Millwall on the platform and I was very impressed. I don't think anyone was the winner there. Apart from me. Football was the winner.
00:23:26
Speaker
it. But yeah, so these, these are new fans, they might even be kind of new to football itself. They're all full of piss and vinegar. They've had a lovely time walking around as I saw on Saturday, walking around Norwich going, you know, that sort of thing.
00:23:46
Speaker
they are absolutely not prepared for what happens next because they're like the shiniest of Arsenal fans or, you know, they're now been conditioned to expect a lovely easy ride and it's going to be the biggest culture shock ever for thousands of Britain supporters. Effectively, that's going to have a psychological kind of weight to it. I still think that if Arsenal didn't choke and give away Brentford,
00:24:15
Speaker
didn't fail so badly in that first game, Brentford's first game against Arsenal, because they'll put Scum against someone big and shiny, probably be the Friday night game, depends who else comes up maybe through the playoffs, maybe if leads go up they might put leads on.
00:24:28
Speaker
I think I put them against Liverpool. It's which Liverpool? It's always Liverpool. It's all well and good with your momentum, but the issue with momentum punt, unless you get really lucky, Brentford got so lucky at the start of their campaign. They played a series of teams who started really badly, so they were able to maintain some momentum and build some belief.
00:24:50
Speaker
their games are much further apart, so therefore you stew on a bad result a lot more. So if you're not used to that as a fan base, if you're not used to that as a set of players, that can be, or coaches, that can be really tricky. And if they are the Friday night or the Saturday lunchtime game or the Saturday evening game against Liverpool and they lose four in an Anfield, of which there's absolutely no, there's no shame in that happening to Everton, obviously not recently, or West Ham or anyone else, anyone can get taken apart at Liverpool, right? So they go to City and Harlan scores four goals against them,
00:25:20
Speaker
or Arsenal come to their place and don't actually choke and actually do do a proper performance and smash them three nil. All of a sudden you've then got maybe 10 days until you get the opportunity to play again and other than like a league cup game. So that momentum can disappear very, very quickly if they don't get lucky and get one of the teams they get given on and off day at the start of the season. So I don't think I personally think Leicester are the only team who I would say taking pragmatism and worry and self protection out of it.
00:25:48
Speaker
I just think based on data and based on, you know, statistics and what's happened recently and particularly the most recent year, I, I've listed to me are the only ones with the spending power to, to properly revamp their squad in a way that means that their lights do it. The advantage perhaps that they, that you could say Phil forgot is that, um, because they were at the top for quite a long time and the promotion is likely for quite a long time, maybe they can have had.
00:26:14
Speaker
maybe their focus has been on transfer window recruitment for the Premier League for a bit longer than a team who were in between sixth and eighth for a long period of time and then had a last burst up there kind of thing. But the idea that they are still going to be in the same pot as we were in that
00:26:39
Speaker
they are going to have to really hit lucky with a lot of their transfers. Um, because that, that team is a bunch of people similar, similar in a way to the Lambert era. There's a bunch of people playing above themselves chip on their shoulder, come up a couple of couple of performances. There's so many similarities. Uh, I haven't seen anything. Um, that suggests that he's as good a coach or any better coach, certainly than Lambert was at the best at the moment, you could say is they're the same because they've done the same thing.
00:27:07
Speaker
And then Lambert got found out and then went to another couple of clubs and got found out there as well. We'll see. But I mean, to me, it's got nothing to do with scum, whether we go up, like I'm really pleased that they cannot beat us this year. That was, as I said, on the previous pod, I love that the best, the best season of their lives for most of these sort of young shiny knob beds that you were referring to Edie, um, the best season in their lives, the best they've been for a quarter of a century. And they still can't beat us.
00:27:36
Speaker
I love that. Like, I love that win for us. I personally was having this conversation too yesterday. I was on a work trip and I was talking to Spurs fan and a couple of other people in Premier League fans. And they were surprised when I said, oh, Chelsea fan was the other guy. And they were surprised when I said, yeah, I'd be really happy to lose with dignity over two legs to leads because I don't, I don't want to lose at Wembley because of that moment element. You know, if we're going to make it to Wembley, obviously I'll be there with my lad as well.
00:28:05
Speaker
I don't want to cry in nine-year-old and I don't want to be upset myself and disappointed. Crying 39-year-old as well, I'd say, mate, yeah. I'll be 40 because it's on my 40th birthday. And? Yeah, so I will be in my... I'll be in my very, very, very late 30s that day. But yeah, I don't want to go to Wembley and lose because I've got... I've currently got 100% record at Wembley. Unfortunately, I haven't got 100% record in playoff finals, as you know, obviously. You know, one for two.
00:28:33
Speaker
So if I, I, I almost think that that is the, again, think of myself protectionism, maybe a two, one win, a two, one win, and then a three, one loss over the two legs. I can, I can both see that happening. And I also think that in the long run, that might be where we need to be to your point, Edie, it just means it now because right.
Norwich City's Rebuild and Financial Strategy
00:28:55
Speaker
Okay. Got some old boys who are moving on.
00:28:58
Speaker
We need to hire some of you guys. We're probably going to get some cash from a couple of people who are going to move on, but we'll cover that on the next pod. So it's a time to do a bit of a rebuild. It's a bit of a reset. Parachute payments gone. It's into a new era. Nappa will have well expected to be dealing with building a squad with no parachute payments. You're not going to take that job expecting or putting all of your hopes on this season, us going up, especially where the time you took over is, you know, we're in terminal, right? So yeah, I'm totally comfortable.
00:29:27
Speaker
Should we do some more listening questions, Pump? Yeah, we can do a couple more. Hang on. I've got to find them now. Two seconds. There's one that I saw that was...
00:29:41
Speaker
predicting our first team 11 for next season, which I think is a really good question. So Phil, the roaming Anglian on Twitter says, can the panel please give a guaranteed starting 11 for the first match of next season? Is he going to come for us if it doesn't come to fruition? Yeah, it's Phil. He always comes for us. He keeps receipts.
00:30:03
Speaker
I just, I want to see Sargent. I want to see him stay with us. I love him. He loves us. He's so on our wavelength. And we kind of did a little bit of an Alex Ferguson with him, didn't we? We got him like all settled down nice and early, all comfortable. He's definitely one of us. And yeah, I think that's definitely some of the more like attractive, successful goal scorers.
00:30:32
Speaker
obviously our South American buddies. Will they stay with us? It'd be lovely if they did, but it just feels like they're not quite as embedded, apart from, of course, Hernandez. Yeah. I mean, are we going to say that
00:30:49
Speaker
So I think you need to have two answers. If we go up, then I'm expecting at least six different faces in the starting lineup for next season. Can we keep all our good ones? I think you do. I think you're able to. I agree. I just think it's interesting. Because of contract status, there's enough time on Sarah and Johnny's contracts that actually we can be pretty bullish on that.
00:31:17
Speaker
and also know that we've got January if need be, and then obviously that the fire sale happens when you get the inevitable eradication.
00:31:24
Speaker
Um, the, yeah, but the other thing is, uh, if we're in the championship, I can see Gabby staying. I, I, yeah, I can, because he signed to a championship team. You know, it's not like they signed to a premier league team and then got relegated and he's like, Oh, I don't know. He is playing, he is playing in one of Europe's big five leagues next season. I wouldn't hold it against him in the slightest.
00:31:52
Speaker
I just I know it's given us an extra season but that and that's part of it to your point Edie I think he's part I love his vibe but I don't know who knows what he knows how settled he's in the air etc and but I can see him staying with us depending on sort of to your point John
00:32:12
Speaker
the right team coming in for him. I don't think that he is going to go just because it's the Bundesliga or just because it's the Premier League. I don't think it'd be Premier League or La Liga. I don't think that's where he'll end up. I don't think he will want to go and sit on the bench. He's just he's been an ever present, right? Him and Kenny. Incredible. I don't think he sits on the bench for probably 17 teams in Spain. I think I don't think he sits on the bench for 12 teams in the Premier League. 12 for half.
00:32:40
Speaker
He's that good. Let's be honest, his output has been better than that James Madison season. All right, he's not quite... How much do we get from him then? So he goes to the bottom 12 of the Premier League, what do we get from him? And that is, I think, the only thing that could not necessarily save us because actually there is a necessity to sell if we see the championship.
00:33:02
Speaker
but it's the size of fee because clubs aren't spending that much money anymore. You know, there's the fines that, not the fines, you know, the points deductions that Evan and the Nighting Forest of the World have experienced has probably sent a
Transfer Speculations and Impact
00:33:17
Speaker
bit of a shock. And I know they're going to potentially reconsider their financial fair play stuff for next season, but I just don't know if there'll be the clubs splashing the cash. And I wonder whether, whilst I think it should be upwards, you know, any fee for Gabrielle Sarah, I should start with a three.
00:33:32
Speaker
I think it'll probably be more in the realms of 20 to 25 because that will be the money that's on the table. I can see him going for 20 to 25. I don't think there's anyone buying players who are unproven at that top level for that amount. Yeah, but he's really good. Well, he is. I mean, he's incredible. And I feel similar to him. He's obviously had a really difficult season with injuries.
00:33:54
Speaker
Um, I mean, imagine, imagine losing any brand new, the whole season and still having the best season you've had still be, I still be an amazing European place team anyway. Um, yeah, I, I feel like Emmy though. I don't think we've seen his ceiling cause he's obviously got so much better now he's, you know, got into English football and got into the game.
00:34:13
Speaker
He's been roughed up, he's been kicked up in the air, he can mix it, he can be your set-piece guy, he can, from both the setting up and also from a conversion point of view, he's good in the air, he's strong, he's physical, good at tracking back, he can play in the 10, he can play in the six. Yeah, you're right, he probably should have a three in front of it and in the years gone past he would be. If we could get 22 or 20 rising to 25 with appearances, I think they have to take it.
00:34:43
Speaker
because you can build a championship squad
00:34:57
Speaker
Marquis doing finger-in-the-air quote marks, Marquis style championship signings of six, seven million. You can buy two or three, six, seven million players there, which makes a huge difference. Do you reckon that's going to be Ben Nappa's style? That's the thing that we're yet to really see, aren't we? I hope not. And the point is he will have to be that style if we go to the Premier League. So he will be forced into having to pay that kind of money because you can't, we've seen it ourselves, you can't spend 500 grand and expect that player to do it for 15 to 20 games in the Premier League at a decent level.
00:35:27
Speaker
You know, free transfers are complete lottery. You know, you tend to get one or two who are towards the end of their careers and coming over because they haven't played in a Premier League yet and they'd like to tick that off. So, you know, you might get lucky with that, but I don't know. There's so many factors that I think are out of control. I like the value for money I get out of being a championship season ticket holder. Like, I like how many games I get, the lack of VAR,
00:35:54
Speaker
the slightly more community feel that there just is a championship league clubs. To your point, Edie, on the first start at 11 and staying in the championship, if we do stay in the championship, I can see Sergeant staying.
00:36:05
Speaker
because you've got the likes of Armstrong, the guy's name I can't say from Blackburn, there are some shinier striking options who have scored more. He's an infielder, I think, the Blackburn lad, isn't he? He's still top scorer, isn't he? Yeah, they've been playing him as a false nine. So against Leicester, he was basically like left up front because he scored those two breakaway goals. But yeah, the point is there are other players, Shay Adams, that there's other sort of names that I think would probably be higher on people's list. And we might just about keep hold of him.
00:36:35
Speaker
if to your point about getting him settled and him being a lovely young boy, he might be happy enough that he's not going to push for it. I think psychologically, if you look at the beginning of his career with us that first season, I think it takes a lot for him to kind of just acclimatise and then basically like what he does translates into like what the team around him are doing.
00:36:59
Speaker
I think he would know that. I think there would definitely be some nerves about going and playing for another team when actually this could be another championship season that could lead to a solid Premier League ascendance. And also from a USA point of view, he needs games, right? Like he is a starting striker potentially for the Americans. He can't risk being on the bench in the Premier League. You're not because there will be other players who will be able to make a name for themselves.
00:37:28
Speaker
And so he will get picked for and he's proven that if he's scoring for Norwich, he will get picked in the championship. He will get picked for the USA team. That is obviously going to be a big factor next season going into the World Cup following the following year. So I think the more players, the more like dream players that stay with us into next season, if we don't get promoted, that's a sign that Napa will have made reassurances to them.
00:37:53
Speaker
that point towards change. I don't think he's going to set any of them down and say, look, we're going to carry on with David Wagner. I'm going to carry on doing what we did before. Yeah, that's the whole chat, isn't it? They're not going to hang around for that. Do you think that he will? Do you think that he needs to get to Wembley? Do you think he's already done enough to still be the manager in August? Whatever happens, you know, lose three nil, three nil, you know, over this coming week,
00:38:24
Speaker
do you think he's still, so I'll do one each. So coming to you first punt, he loses three nil, three nil or two nil, three nil. Basically it wasn't really competitive at any point and we don't make it to Wembley. Is he still the manager in August? Has he already done enough? I think it depends what Ben Nappa wants Norwich City to be.
00:38:45
Speaker
I thought it was really interesting that this is going way off on tangent, but Norwich have recently advertised for head coach for the women's team. There was no chat about any kind of investment in that team. It was very much an expectation that the coach
00:39:01
Speaker
would get that team up and would get them promoted with a core of homegrown players. And I think that's Ben Nappa's first real move with the women set up. And I wonder whether there's an element of that being replicated within the men's as well. Because look, we know that's the aspiration. That's always been the aspiration for the football club that the youth team would serve the first team and that would fund us as a football club. If Ben Nappa has been brought in with that remit,
00:39:30
Speaker
There is absolutely zero chance that if we don't get promoted, that David Wagner is the head coach because he's proven it already this season. He is so reticent to bloody, you know, youth team products. All right, you can look, you can go, oh, look, I've given Ken a bow his debut or Finley Welsh or whatever, but it was tokenism, like with three, four nil up or losing four, one, you know, when you chuck on these lads. It was like when you get Johnny Depp on stage with your bands to play guitar. So come on, Johnny.
00:39:58
Speaker
But, you know, it was just, you know, so look, he's not having these youth team players. You've got the likes of, you know, kind of Hills, Abu Kamara, you know, who are maybe going to come back. And Hills, I think, is one of the ones that's been really underrated and has had a terrific season from everything that you hear. So,
00:40:21
Speaker
If we're going to be that football club, David Wagner cannot be our head coach. If we're going to be a football club in the Premier League, and we had this conversation on the pod, I don't know, probably about six or seven pods ago about would Wagner's football potentially be a bit more short term, but possibly a bit more successful in the Premier League than Daniel Farkas. I don't know. Maybe it's an experiment that is worth persisting with purely on the basis that even if we stayed up for like one season under Wagner, actually the financial
00:40:49
Speaker
The financials involved in that just means that, you know, it's almost a no-brainer for the football club. So we're at a really, the point that you make, Edie, about the rebuild and Napa being able to quietly do that. I kind of really hope that that is the outcome and that he is able to shape this into the football club that he wants it to be. We've got to go under the radar for a bit. But I think Wagner's toast, if we don't go up, I don't think.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah there's the the mob boss Vincent Gigante who escaped the FBI for years while all of his peers were arrested and banged up for life but just like he just went under the radar he just used to go to a restaurant in his pyjamas and they'd be like that feeble old man he's not a mob boss like that's gotta be our year.
00:41:36
Speaker
of just building up our crime empire while the people around us just see us acting feebly and dribbling spaghetti and that's absolutely fine. Just quietly going about our business and then it might be we can tap in to the Premier League after, might be it's which tap out and then all of natural balance and order can be restored.
00:41:58
Speaker
So what you're saying essentially is if in the director's box next season, we see Ben Napper and his dressing gown with a big cigar on that might be on
Playoff Predictions and Strategies
00:42:05
Speaker
the right. Just a big sports direct mug.
00:42:07
Speaker
So, what do you reckon, Edie? You think, so he, partner said, if we lose, he thinks he's gone. If we knock out Leeds, and they have the sixth playoff defeat in a row, and we are playing Saints, probably. I really don't think West Brom are all that. I don't know if Southampton are all that, mate.
00:42:33
Speaker
Well, well, anyway, point is, we lose to Southampton in this, because we all agree, if he takes us up, there's no conversation, of course, he's going to be the manager. However, you know, we're not Watford. However, if we fail on Wembley Way, does he keep his job
00:42:53
Speaker
think there's going to be a very, if they do get rid of him and it's very likely, I don't think there is any appetite for a kind of Mardi flounce type sacking which I think we did very badly and have suffered from. I think hopefully grown-ups and
00:43:14
Speaker
sort of level heads will prevail and it might not necessarily be related to that particular moment that a sacking occurs. It's probably like everything gets tied up one way or another and then over time a very quiet announcement that somebody's heading off. I think he, so it's interesting listening to you both. I think he is already assured to be in the dugout in August. I don't think there's any chance that they, with the parachute payments going
00:43:44
Speaker
I don't think they sign up for another eight months of paying his wages.
00:43:49
Speaker
and paying another manager at the same time. But do you think like his public comments, like the squad not being deep enough, like was almost like open signs of defiance towards the sporting director, like which, you know, those comments have been made by him and are on record. Yeah, I just I just don't see how that ends particularly well. And you know, like rumors that you hear, you know, that we spoke to coaches, you know, kind of around December, January time, there's Will Steele, I think has been put out there as one that that we might have been looking at.
00:44:20
Speaker
No, the Cuesta stuff as well. Unless it was massively agent talk, we were talking to coaches kind of around the turn of the year. I just don't see a world where if we don't get promoted where he's still here. I think we've moved on since then. But who else is out there? Who's better?
00:44:44
Speaker
Well, I think that's a key factor. You have to make do with what you can do. The question, the question element I think is a potential because I think that's where you would think with Nappa, he would feel he's got enough of a known quantity there that he feels comfortable doing it. But since those reports came out and since those conversations took place,
00:45:05
Speaker
Norwich have been on a really, really good run of mostly performances, but definitely results. And I don't know, I just, I personally can't see it. I hear the logic, but
00:45:20
Speaker
I know he doesn't feel like the sort of club that almost wants to have a reputation as getting in the playoffs when you were miles off it, uh, the turn of the year, isn't good enough. Do you see what I mean? But the massive, I do. I absolutely see that. And the fact that we've stuck with him this season and that we've made the playoffs is, is to be admired, but let, you know, I thought it was lunacy at the time, but it is to be admired. Like now we are where we are. But.
00:45:43
Speaker
Norwich need to cultivate a reputation of being a team that will, you know, if you go there as a 17, 18-year-old, if you're hand plucked from, you know, an academy that, you know, maybe Luton, for example, like Max Jamal, that there will be a pathway into the first team, that there will be a pathway for your progression that you will, you know, you will move on to a better club. We know when the time's right. So if Norwich want to market themselves as that team, you know, that step in stone and, you know, the finances that come around that for Norwich,
00:46:12
Speaker
are significant based on the, you know, the Aaron's Lewis, Godfrey, you know, kind of sales that we've made before. If we want to be that football club, we cannot be that football club with David Wagner at the helm. So it's a real pick and moment. Unless that's the ultimatum. Unless who you want to be. It might be that that's the ultimatum in the summer. They might be the conversation if they don't go up. It almost felt like it was the ultimatum, but he had to come in and play us.
00:46:38
Speaker
stuff that we hear is it doesn't really rate any of the youngsters and actually there's there's no evidence to back up the fact that he rates any of the current crop you know so unless he thinks abby camaro is brilliant brad hills is brilliant jonathan tomkinson might come back and and do something you know jayden mourner when he had a few cameos before tomkinson but unless he thinks that and he's like right here are four or five lads that i can integrate quickly then i just don't see how it is viable and given the fact that we will be selling
00:47:07
Speaker
probably two of Roe, Sarah, Gunn, Sargent.
00:47:12
Speaker
I really want Gunn to stay. It's so nice having a settled goalie and you just think it's just fantastic. One of the best keepers in the league. But it is two of those four, isn't it? Not if we go up, but I don't think we'll go up. So speaking of which, I think we need to round off with guarantees here. I want, and because it's a playoff period, I need two. So I want a guaranteed scoreline ED on Sunday and then a guaranteed scoreline for the returning on Thursday at Ellen Road.
00:47:43
Speaker
got this sort of drawer failing. Mm hmm. We got a pen Zoe. Yeah, just it's, it's gonna go like, it's gonna be a grind and then obviously drama. But it's like, this is all about us versus Leeds. And it's just, we've never quite kind of because there's all sorts of like hidden sort of subsurface emotions at play.
00:48:12
Speaker
We've lost John. Yeah, John's dropped off. He's obviously so worried about his guarantee that he dare and give it to the audience. I think we will nick it in the first leg, but they will nick it better in the second leg. I think that I don't like underlights Thursday night out on the road.
00:48:30
Speaker
We were a bit cowed by that occasion because we played in midweek, so a similar occasion when we played in the way during the season. I think we nick it at home and we have a good day, which would be nice. John talked about moments early. We have a nice moment where we go into the end of the first leg, 2-1 up maybe. But I think they're too strong for us at the end of the road. We know Varka's teams play to the final whistle. Varkan's teams tend to drop off a bit towards the final whistle.
00:48:59
Speaker
I'll be really interested to see how he sets out if we try and attack him and really go for it and play like a proper home team.
00:49:08
Speaker
That's what I want to see. What I don't want is for us to play them the way we tried to play them twice already this season, which is sort of just sit back and say, you've got to break this down. We cut for 180 minutes. You can't play like that. You've got to try and go and get your goals in your home leg and then have a lead to defend. And I think we can do it in the home leg, but I think they'll have too much. The home leg, we will score at like the third or fourth minute. Yes, that's what I mean. I can see it being quite a tight game at home, which we nick.
00:49:34
Speaker
by one goal, maybe two, one. Equalizer at like 73, 74 minutes for Leeds, then pens. Well, up in Leeds, that we're saying. Their fans are worried about the fact that playoffs is bogey time for them. They have suffered in the playoffs. And whereas our lot, I've got a fairly clean slate. It's fresh to all of our lot. We don't really have that hanging over us. We've not done it much.
00:50:01
Speaker
No, we did it, we sort of, we've won and done and it was fine. But look, we'll see what the weekend brings. I am very, very hopeful that we have some brilliant moments on Sunday and that it is an enjoyable send off at Carrow Road because the last game, the last league game of the season was such a damp squib really. So let's hope that it is a really, really walkers fantastic atmosphere. And whatever happens, we'll review it on the next pod.
00:50:31
Speaker
Do you mind how you go?