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'Circles' City 'Til We Die #3
843 Plays10 months ago
Welcome back to City 'Til We Die! Illness has prevented us (Ben) from content recently so there's plenty to catch up on. The agenda: 14 Years, going round in circles, 2023 (sorry) and winning not being good enough (yup.)
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Delay
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, welcome back to Along Come Norwich 4, episode 3 of City Till We Die. It's been a little while since we last made a video. I'm going to put my hands up and I'm going to say it's illness that's prevented that from happening, which is a shame because some interesting things have happened. However, I'm sure it's still sort of lingering in my voice, so I can only apologise. However, we are live tonight,
00:00:21
Speaker
for those watching live, make sure you get your comments in. For those who aren't watching live, you can still put your comments in, but we shall respond to them via the YouTube platform.
Mood Among Norwich Fans and Recent Experiences
00:00:30
Speaker
George Wilson joins me. I think, I don't know what the mood is at the moment amongst Norwich fans. I think it's kind of a bit samey, but for you, George, how are you feeling? Let's start with instead, how was your Christmas, and then maybe how you're feeling about Norwich City.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yeah, I had a good Christmas. First of all, thank you. Hope the same was for you. You had a good one yourself. And it wasn't really spoiled by the result on Boxing Day. To be honest, I didn't watch the game on Boxing Day. I wasn't that surprised by the result on Boxing Day. So I think the fact I wasn't expecting a lot probably helped because
00:01:18
Speaker
OK, we'd seen some improvement in results and definitely an improvement in mood. I've noticed how on the bottom of the screen you've got Derby dominance. And when I was reading that, as that countdown was playing, it was making me feel quite good because we've got to appreciate that weekend that we had when we got that result. And that has, I think, given everyone a lift. But yeah, even having said that, I think
00:01:48
Speaker
there wasn't too much surprise by that West Brom result because I don't know how much further we've come and how much we've improved. There have been improvements like the Kenny move to centre back has been one that has come up. I don't know your thoughts on that. Maybe we'll come to talk about that. But yeah, I think we're still a bit of a crossroads, aren't we?
Inconsistent Run and Unsatisfying Victories
00:02:18
Speaker
I don't know, maybe within a few days time after the Millwall and Southampton games, we'll be in a different place, who knows? I think the bizarre thing and I sort of...
00:02:29
Speaker
was jotting this down in my very brief notes that I have next to me. The bizarre thing is that since we last made a video, since I can't remember what the game was before, I think it was just after Cardiff where we dared to dabble in the world of optimism. Since then, Norwich have played eight times, four wins, two draws, two losses. Given the run of form that Norwich were in prior, we think, you know, okay, that cannot be that bad. In retrospect,
00:02:57
Speaker
Technically, it's not as bad, but as fans who watch the games and are trying to invest some belief and a lot of time into these players, you still aren't satisfied and it's bizarre typing
00:03:12
Speaker
unsatisfying victories it's bizarre typing winning isn't enough because that is the case for Norwich City at the moment and it's such a you know what's the word samey it is so samey it's insane how it's almost just a constant case of rinse and repeat you can pick a 1-0 Norwich loss and you can pick a 2-1 Norwich win and the characteristics of those games are consistent
00:03:37
Speaker
you probably couldn't from a brief description of the game decipher which one's which by maybe a light a light a late eda winner which is i i don't know if i've really felt like this is a norwich fan before we we kind of had it under dean smith but it's now been so long of this not being convinced by norwich city on the pitch it's just it makes my head spin and i think we contemplated the idea of a 2023 review but
00:04:07
Speaker
It's just quite a depressing year. So I think let's try and talk about some wins. You mentioned the Derby.
Derby Game Reflection
00:04:13
Speaker
I think let's start there. What were your thoughts because I went into it fully expecting a defeat, but not just a defeat, a heavy defeat for a 2-2 draw where I don't think in the second half Ipswich particularly deserved to win it. I felt very satisfied. No, I'm,
00:04:35
Speaker
with you completely. I went in not expecting anything from it. I think the first half, when that broad head chance, when he took it past, I think he took it past two of our defenders and was then one on one, when he put that wide, which I don't know what the view from the away end was. I was watching it on TV, but when he put that wide, you kind of, you did kind of think, could there be something here for us today? You know, they were,
00:05:05
Speaker
They were just showing signs, which they were nervous to a little bit. But then when it went 1-0 to them, I didn't think there was a way back for us. I think we were, well, not fortunate as much, but
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah we were fortunate to have a player like John Rowe on our side who could you know produce a couple of moments like he did because we didn't really create a great deal but to have someone as good as him and someone with the stones to
00:05:40
Speaker
producing that moment was important and I loved his celebrations etc but I think you're right in that when it went 2-2 in the second half what was there half an hour left on the clock and Ipswich were attacking attacking that end which I think is more raucous than the other end I mean I'm not too sure but yeah when it went 2-2
00:06:04
Speaker
I was fearing the worst because I thought having seen this team lead slip away and concede soft goals all season, I thought there's no way against an Ipswich team who have been flying that we're going to see this out.
Season Challenges and Player Highlights
00:06:21
Speaker
But really, other than the gun save that he had to make, there was never a
00:06:26
Speaker
a moment of real panic when you thought they're going to get a third. It seems you know what are we two weeks on from the game but I do think my memories of that game are so much stronger than any other from this season almost because you kind of live through it a lot more and you know I was pacing my living room for a lot of it but yeah in general it was just
00:06:49
Speaker
relief at the final whistle and I was able to go into work on the Monday morning with a smile on my face and reminding all the Ipswich fans he told me they were going to batter us that they weren't quite that good. Yeah I think that game is possibly the only one in the run of eight that all logic goes out the window. I don't care about three points for me it was just about defending that honour because
00:07:17
Speaker
from our position and from my position I'll say it's just funny at this point. I know a lot of Ipswich fans were displeased with the result. I know a lot of Ipswich fans felt like they you know it was a foregone conclusion going into the game but it's just kind of funny at this point and and to be honest with you
00:07:39
Speaker
you've really got to clutch at any glimpses of enjoyment for what is a really boring season for Norwich, and that certainly is one. But in that run of eight games, and also a second point quickly, before we sort of, and I know we'll keep touching on it during the episode, but John Rowe, two goals, which is remarkable, and he really backed up his talk.
00:08:04
Speaker
really wasn't particularly present in the game. Not that I think anyone from an offensive point of view really was for Norwich, but it's impressive and the same goes for the Sheffield Wednesday game where he got his header at the back post. He wasn't really present in that game and he didn't look particularly fit.
Home vs Away Performance and Fan Positivity
00:08:24
Speaker
So to grab three goals in those two games is really impressive and he's not as red hot as what he was at the beginning of the season, however you can see those qualities kick in. The West Brom game was an example of when he can just nick the ball sometimes and cause a little bit of danger and he really does have that in his locker and I just desperately want to see a new coach get a lot more out of him but
00:08:51
Speaker
save that for a little bit later. Let's try and be positive for the time being. In those eight games, what are you picking out as reasons and things to hold on to in terms of, okay, yeah, Norwich are decent in this area or this player is particularly good at this thing. What are those things that you perhaps try to extract from those eight games? I think there are
00:09:20
Speaker
There are elements you can take from them. I think it's interesting that before I try and pick them apart, I think having not been to all of those eight, in fact, I think I've probably been to four of the eight.
00:09:38
Speaker
I think it would be interesting if you asked a supporter who was at the Bristol City away game, who else did we beat away from home? Cardiff, Cardiff you mentioned, who we beat just before we last recorded. I think if you were at
00:09:54
Speaker
the Cardiff game and you're at the Bristol City game and you've been at the home games, which, you know, we beat Sheffield Wednesday, we beat Huddersfield. I think if you've been at all four of those wins, I wonder if those people would feel more positive than we maybe feel, because I think if you've watched City really fight for a win away from home, you do get that positivity come through a lot more. I think in terms of the home wins we've seen,
00:10:23
Speaker
Huddersfield was probably the most convincing. And, um, I think second half in particular, that there were a lot of good individual performances. I think Sam McCallum, unlike the, uh, unlike in the, no, Sam McCallum performance in the first half of Ips, which was, I don't know where he was for a lot of it, but bar that I think he's been very good and was good when he came on. Um, and then,
00:10:52
Speaker
You've got Adam Edo who came off the bench in that Huddersfield game, who was pretty impressive too. But again, with him, I know you mentioned how he's maybe been mismanaged, and I think I can definitely agree with that in parts.
Kenny McLean's Defensive Role
00:11:07
Speaker
In terms of other positives you can take, interesting. Sheffield Wednesday, I'm trying to think back to that game.
00:11:16
Speaker
It's a difficult thing to think about because it was such a dull one. It was a really dull. Yeah. I think it was, I think, Gabby Zara scored and that made me happy. Yeah. I think the Kenny McLean move has been a really good one, to be honest. And I think it was one when he when he first did it ahead of the Bristol City game, you kind of thought, what is he thinking? Danny Bath, you know, on the bench, the recognised centre half.
00:11:46
Speaker
But yeah, but McLean hasn't really put a foot wrong there. I mean, I didn't watch the West Brom game. I don't know if he did anything wrong there. But from what I read, I don't think he did. Whether it's the long-term solution, I'm not sure. But I think Wagner does deserve praise for that. But yeah, I don't see it being something. I don't see us being sat here any year's time.
00:12:15
Speaker
Kenny's played the whole year at centre back, at least because I think he's got so much to offer further up the pitch as well. I think McLean at centre back has really highlighted his qualities as a footballer and I've blown hot and cold with Kenny McLean over his time at Norwich. And that sort of the theme I've noticed is that when we're in the championship, I really like him. When we're in the Premier League, he's not quite enough, but we're in the championship and we could be for a while. So let's focus on that.
00:12:43
Speaker
As a championship footballer, he's really good. He's an absolute engine, technically not too bad. He's playing in a team that should dominate, so he can try 50 of those crossfield balls and land five and everything be fine and dandy. But his little stint at centre back is just a real
00:13:05
Speaker
almost an indictment on the quality of the existing centre backs at Norwich and the recruitment struggles there have been because if you look at that in isolation you've got someone who's played as essentially a number eight for however many years at Norwich and done a pretty good job has just stepped back into centre back and is just as good as if not better than Ben Gibson, Shane Duffy, maybe not Grant Hanley as a defender
00:13:33
Speaker
Danny Bart, but again we haven't really seen much from him. You pick out this slightly smaller centre midfield and he really doesn't look at a place compared to who would be there in his place, which is just a bit like, okay well done Wagner for perhaps making that tweak and and whether it's worked to an extent.
New Era Speculation with Ben Nappa and Mark Atanasia
00:13:53
Speaker
Who knows, you know, because what is the standard there? Is it scraping the barrel and and you're saying, oh, it's all right. OK, but what's the long term plan or or has it been a raging success in David Wagner's opinion?
00:14:05
Speaker
We don't know, but it is a real reflection of Norwich City's really poor recruitment in that area and letting Andrew Amabamadele go. I'm not going to sit here and say it was a mistake because financially it was pivotal to the club, but it's hard to look at it as a fan and just understand where any of it is going.
00:14:31
Speaker
I guess the caveat to that is this new era that lies ahead for Norwich. You've got Ben Nappa and you've got hopefully more involvement from Mark Atanasia. You've got this, what I'm assuming is plan being formed. This new look Norwich, how drastic that changes, we don't know. That's sort of the thing to clutch on to. And as we sit here and talk about if Kenny McLean's a good centre back, that's what's keeping me sane, not whether he is a good centre back or not.
00:15:00
Speaker
But I do agree that, you know, as far as decisions go made by David Wagner, that is, Maclay and the Centre back is...
00:15:08
Speaker
meh i can um i can tolerate that um i'm just sort of looking at the games here and and i think i'd like to pick out Preston in my opinion as the worst one which is controversial because you've got Watford in there you've got a fantastic collapse and and we'll touch on Watford but for me Preston was the worst because Preston came to Coward Road they rolled over and they said beat us they said do what you want play how you like we're not going to try anything
00:15:38
Speaker
No offence to Preston fans. I'm sorry you had to watch that performance. That is what happened. Categorically that is what happened. Norwich City did absolutely nothing about it. And watching that as a season ticket holder, having paid my fairly decent whack for the month, I was sat there just quite cold wondering
00:16:03
Speaker
What, why, why is any of this happening? Because on the front foot, we were blunt, on the back, well, we weren't even on the back foot at any point in the game. There was no plan, there was none of this occasional, what's the word, like patterns of play occurring. Because sometimes it happens in these games, Norwich can just remind you that they've got some really good footballers who can play some good stuff. That gets sprinkled in there occasionally. But for me- I think it happened once in that game, didn't it?
00:16:29
Speaker
Do you think so? The little sprinkle when it was played through to Sarah and that then created the Gibbs charts. Oh yeah. That was the only one. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, no. That kind of illustrates what it was. That was the only time we saw it.
00:16:46
Speaker
yeah I think my brain has done a great job of blocking out how Liam Gibbs could have won us that game but in the heat of the moment you think oh for god's sake Gibbs you look back on it no less than sort of a minute later and think yeah that's not his fault that's just a substitute missing one chance where millions more should have been created but you have Watford in there as well we had planned to do some content after Watford but I sent you the cowardly message of I'm gonna have to postpone and
00:17:12
Speaker
And my goodness, what a game that was. What was it? Two early girls, that strike from Huang. It goes off with an injury. Norwich capitulate immediately. George, talk to me about that and perhaps how that fits into the larger picture. I think Watford was almost... You had the capitulation, but I think what was the worst part about that night was how we...
00:17:40
Speaker
how we didn't respond after capitulating. There was like zero, it felt like zero effort to try and turn it back our way. It was like, you know, we'd had the lead, we blew it. And then, yeah, there was just no reaction to it. It was like the acceptance that
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, we haven't got the guts in us. I think the fact that since then we've seen a response has been good. And I think it's interesting the statistics around Ashley Barnes is when he starts, the points per game is so much larger. Because I know a lot of people have been critical of Barnes. And I can understand that because I think in terms of
00:18:32
Speaker
what he brings. He is a lot slower than an Adam Ida or a Sergeant, but he is that leader and I think people do forget that at times. But in terms of Watford, yeah, it was
00:18:50
Speaker
that was pretty depressing. And I think that was alongside maybe alongside the Blackburn defeat, which came what, a few weeks earlier?
David Wagner's Position and Team Improvements
00:18:59
Speaker
Those are probably the two games where the most calls for Wagner to go have come and the people have been most expectant to find the club statement. And then obviously to add to that, was it that same week? Was it the following night or the night after when they had the AGM and, you know,
00:19:20
Speaker
we were we were kind of told that um well not that everything was okay but yeah i can't actually remember which game it was i think it was i think i think it was i think it was that i think it was that midweek um or it or it might have been the monday before first of december yeah it was before the bristol city game just after the oneford one yeah um so that those
00:19:45
Speaker
Those two mixed in together wasn't brilliant. But then, I suppose, the results have come since. So that is what has saved Wagner. I think the other thing you asked me, which positives could I pick out? And I didn't mention him initially, but he's come to me since. And it maybe is silly to be mentioning now immediately after West Brom. But I think Boya Signs has been, has to be mentioned
00:20:15
Speaker
as a positive overall, because in that Sheffield Wednesday game, for example, he was kind of, he was the difference maker, he looked really fresh, he scored that brilliant goal. And there was, there was the Barnes goal, which he set up almost entirely on his own. Obviously, he had a
00:20:36
Speaker
Well, I don't know whether you can call it a moment of madness because I have a feeling that there was a bit of miscommunication there with him kind of only adjusting to the league. There's no disputing that it was a red card and he deserved to be sent off. But I think if you're looking at the last month when signs has come into the team, we look so much better with him in the team than without him because, you know,
00:21:04
Speaker
I think we've mentioned it before he's just so ineffective and I think I've said this to you while we haven't been recording but I'm not looking forward to seeing him in the team tomorrow at Millwall because I just think you just know what you're going to get with him hopefully he surprises me but yeah I've gone on a tangent there but sign's very good Watford wasn't at all
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's, it's, it's just all quite disappointing. Um, we've had a comment, St. John on X saying the results paper at the cracks is awful. Yeah, pretty much. That's the podcast. Um,
00:21:45
Speaker
podcasting in that shell. An interesting comment which will leave me on to something I want to talk about from Alexis Butler. It says, is it time to find a more prolific player up front than Adam Eda or Ashley Barnes? Club turnover was positive for this year. Surely there is money to spend in January. That comment, let's break into two halves. Second half, I don't want to talk about finances. And no, that's not what that means basically. The first half is interesting and
00:22:16
Speaker
I think Adam Eda at Norwich City, and I did put a little tweet out, a little stroppy tweet saying that I think he's been woefully managed.
Adam Eda's Development
00:22:26
Speaker
In his time at Norwich, I think it was his competitive debut for Norwich. I think it was like QPR, not QPR, sorry, Crystal Palace in the prem at home, came off the bench, made a cameo, looked quite bright.
00:22:40
Speaker
And then it was Preston that followed a month or so later. Exactly. And you think of then and now and you have this period of Adam Ida being part of the picture, however big his role in that picture, you know, that's that's up to, you know, that's the subjective, subjective matter. But he's gone full circle because he started as this player with the blueprints to be a wonderful footballer. He's powerful. He's quick.
00:23:08
Speaker
He loves to get his head down and run with the ball. It's not too bad of a finisher. And you look at this very raw talent and you felt excitement in a period where Norwich had a great coach with a reputation for developing young players. You had this board behind him that had maintained the image of, look, we're promoting young players, et cetera, et cetera. It was all quite exciting.
00:23:33
Speaker
and then it went from that to we got relegated and he sort of fluffed his chances really through a couple of red cards but also he was unlucky with injury and injury played him for quite a while and and then it became a case of last season and this season being
00:23:50
Speaker
Well, not so much this season, but last season being well, he's not taking his chances. He's had some some good goals, good opportunities, but he's ballooned them and and frustration started being towards him directly because we were panicking about moving on from team Pookie and Josh Sargent perhaps wasn't as good as what we were hoping. So it then became frustrating towards Adam media and the spotlight went on to Josh Sargent as he progressed. But now Sargent has been out injured and Eda has been playing and Norwich City under David Wagner continue to stall.
00:24:19
Speaker
it's a bit like, oh, hang on a minute. He's actually not that bad. And in games, for example, the Huddersfield game, as you said, he came off the bench and he was really impactful. A game that he should have been starting absolutely after that shift he put in against Ipswich, because no one really had a presence in that game, but he was there. You know, I hate saying it, because it makes me cringe saying it, but like he was doing the running, he was doing the leg work. Yeah, he was good at the shift. It's top class punditry. He put in a shift, but that is,
00:24:47
Speaker
That was what was needed at Ipswich though, wasn't it? He didn't need to be technically brilliant, but he did need to put himself about, and that's what he did.
Forward Line Potential
00:24:57
Speaker
He won a few headers, he was... Yeah, I think putting in a shift in that instance for that game is what was expected, so I don't think it sounds like silly analysis from you to say it. I think that is exactly what he did.
00:25:13
Speaker
he has these moments in games where he will just play up, he'll just remind you that he's really good and he'll like shove someone off the ball and cut inside and put it across and it's like okay yeah I see you, I know you're a decent player but we're now back at that point of actually he is quite an exciting prospect he's got a contract where we don't have to think about it basically
00:25:37
Speaker
And he's maintained that blueprint of all those qualities that could make him a prolific championship goal scorer. And we're here again with an Orange City team that can't seem to match his needs. Now, I don't believe in
00:25:59
Speaker
building round a player that's always been something that's been tossed around in football is that this idea of building your squad around a player that's never a good idea build it round a style of player that suits start of player sure um but like for example we had bwendir it was all about building around bwendir no that's that's not how you should do it that's not how i view this adamida situation but we're now back at square one with eda
00:26:22
Speaker
where he's young by the way he's still very young he's very exciting and he seems to keep scoring goals in a really poor team but not just goals really important goals and i'm really going on a passionate tangent here but one thing
00:26:37
Speaker
I tend to bear in mind and try to bear in mind is Timu Puki for Norwich needed a lot of chances to score the amount of goals he did by no means do I think either will necessarily get close to that immediately
00:26:53
Speaker
but Adam Ida is feeling off scraps and yeah he has missed some sitters but there is only chances in games. If you cast your mind back and think back to Mupuki and the amount of times that he scored a brace but could have had a hat trick
00:27:08
Speaker
you know, you lose your hairs due to stress like we almost did at the time. The amount of times that that guy scored two, but could have had three or four is wild. But he was playing in a team that constantly supplied chances, even in the Premier League, where his animator is quite the opposite. And that setup still applies for Josh Sargent. Josh Sargent played for Norwich when they had that brief streak and Sargent's return will prove however quickly he's integrated back in. His return will prove his quality.
00:27:38
Speaker
and it will prove whether he was just in a good run of form or whether he has grown as a player and is a lot better.
Squad Depth Concerns
00:27:45
Speaker
But I kind of want to just get off my chest about either said John on X again says put in a shift, but he's held up playing. He's a lot of work. I don't think it's hard to play is that bad. He seems to drift that wide a lot, but that's because he's a player who wants the ball and he has to do that to get involved in the game. Otherwise he is literally running around like headless chicken. I think there's been big questions over his.
00:28:07
Speaker
first touch in the past, but I do think this season he is slightly improved on that from what I've seen. I get the feeling he has really put the work in and I do think we've seen improvements this year. Don't get me wrong, I think Sergeant, when he gets back, will
00:28:30
Speaker
will rightly come back in and become the main number nine. The concern for me is more, or the concern for Ida for me is that when they're all fit, we're gonna have four strikers playing for a maximum of two spaces in the team. Huang I think has improved and is proving himself to be more of an option to us, but you do wonder,
00:28:57
Speaker
how many opportunities Ida is going to get. Particularly when you say Wagner has been quite happy to leave him on the bench on occasion even while Sargent has been out. So I think we shall see how it plays out but I'm not sure how many starts he's going to be getting.
00:29:18
Speaker
I think Wang for me I've written off in the sense of I don't think he's that bad as a footballer it's just he was a panic loan in a season for me that's that's redundant in terms of going for promotion if we were pushing for promotion I'd want whoever was going to get us promoted on the pitch but again the roots of that kind of campaign need to be
Ashley Barnes' Role in Attack
00:29:43
Speaker
everything going forwards essentially whereas that that isn't the case at the moment so for me a lone player in the mix who we obviously aren't going to sign in a season where my definition of a successful season is very different to Norwich is in terms of don't think I really want us to get promoted I want us to start building again Wang for me is is not part of that but we let's talk about Ashley Barnes because he made an interesting point you said Josh Sargent will rightfully take his place
00:30:12
Speaker
let's not, you know, okay, Huang does exist and he can't be part of this, but Ashley Barnes, Josh Sargent animator. We've seen the Ashley Barnes, Josh Sargent thing work. Do you try that again if you're David Wagner or do you perhaps look for a little bit of longevity and in this season of building
00:30:35
Speaker
do you go for Ida and Sargent? Because we've seen, I think we've seen Ida and Sargent. No, we've seen Ida and Pookie before, which I think for a game was good when Norwich beat Everton at home in the Premier League a couple of seasons ago. I think he played with all three, didn't he? Dean Smith. I think, yeah, he went Ida, Sargent, Pookie with, yeah, Pookie through the middle, which, like you say, was like a, it was a two game thing. And then I think it was,
00:31:00
Speaker
Was it Iida who got injured and then? I think it worked for one game and then didn't work the second game and then that was it. Yeah. There was that one night in Watford. I don't know. I think I think. What you said, I think he will go back to. To Sergeant and Barnes initially, yeah, but I think. I think there's definitely an argument for for going with either because as you said.
00:31:30
Speaker
the difference he made against Huddersfield was a big one because that had been a, I mean, the first half against Huddersfield, not to keep going back specifically to games, but sitting there at halftime in the Huddersfield game was just, you wondered, you wondered why we,
00:31:54
Speaker
have bothered going because it was just there was no no penetration against it similarly to the to the Preston game but it but it did improve like I say it just kind of it was a better performance but you came out of it thinking how does Phil put hopeless there and we've kind of we've played okay but
00:32:19
Speaker
haven't torn them apart like we maybe would have done years ago, but maybe that's the problem as well, is that we, I don't think it's a problem, but we've just become so used to seeing City teams in the Championship score two and then score two more before the end, whereas now we're kind of just
00:32:39
Speaker
scoring one and then looking to see it out from there. It's a different approach to what it was like with Farka, isn't it? But then it's a different group of players as well, so it's going to be the way.
00:32:50
Speaker
I did see something that said, I can't remember which game it was now, it must be within the last three, but there was that comparison to Farkas first title winning season that said, we've scored 41 goals this season, which at this point of that season was the same, which makes you want to bang your head against brick wall because this team can score goals.
Analyzing Attacking Potential
00:33:12
Speaker
and it can score some really good goals as well which again that element of trying to be positive leads me to well the quality is there and there are enough players in that squad that could perhaps flirt with promotion but and there's a great article from NCFC analysis
00:33:35
Speaker
on the pink and my mom was blanking on the pink and then there's a wonderful article that he posted it was either today or yesterday a real like tactical breakdown of Wagner and it wasn't really even an attack on him it was just pointing things out and and it made you think Jesus this is almost chaos on the pitch at times and this team wants to score goals what is it
00:33:58
Speaker
I think twice that we failed to score. Once at home against Leicester, which fair enough, they are basically a Premier League team playing in the Championship and then that Preston game. They're the only two times Norwich City have failed to score and
00:34:13
Speaker
you look at the other games. Oh and West Brom as well now. Oh and West Brom sorry yeah wow okay that was sorry. I've got it right in front of me but also thank you Brain for blocking that one out. But you look at those games and like for example um I can
00:34:28
Speaker
I think it was the second goal against Sheffield Wednesday, the Ashley Barnes goal that came from that Sarah ball. Like Norwich can score some really good goals. And Sarah is a great example of, there is that quality there, bought her signs again. We spoke about him earlier, didn't we? Really good player. He's not just like the Kyle Lafferty syndrome type of good, where he's just better than what we've got.
00:34:52
Speaker
sort of watch me think, oh hang on a minute, you're actually really good. And I think just to talk about him quickly, his blueprint as a footballer for me has been outlined immediately in his three starts for Norwich.
Boya Signs' Contributions
00:35:06
Speaker
You've got a player who technically superior to anyone in a yellow and green shirt in that kind of position anyway. He can just sort of drift past players, take really neat touches and what I liked
00:35:19
Speaker
Ironically, I think it was in the West Brom game quite early on, was when he had the ball and he had to turn back towards his own goal, but then he turned back and he managed to find space to then play it forward. And I'm like, oh, my God, I've not seen that for so long, which really is bottom of the barrel stuff for me. But you've got that kind of player, you've got someone who's got a very hot head, I think is the the diplomatic way to put it. And that peaked
00:35:49
Speaker
obviously in the West Brom game with his red card in the Sheffield Wednesday game. The thing I immediately noticed was he was going after Craig Dawson, not Craig Dawson. What's his name? Cameron Dawson. Cameron Dawson, definitely not Craig Dawson in goal. Dawson in goal. He was just going after him from corners, which I was like, okay, clearly this is the kind of play you are. And that was really emphasized in the Sheffield Wednesday game. He's a play who needs to be given the ball.
00:36:17
Speaker
I think he'll only do so much to come and get it because systematically he's meant to like sort of go out here and do whatever David Wagner wants his wingers to do, I don't know, ask on Hernandez, but he needs the ball at his feet and when he had the ball at his feet he was really, really good and again finishes
00:36:38
Speaker
for his two goals sublime you know that that one against Sheffield Wednesday the first one was like okay you know you hear you've made your mark but the Huddersfield one composure and a really good bit of technique to sort of knuckle the ball essentially over um
00:36:55
Speaker
Maxwell I think it is in goal for Huddersfield. On a random note, he was really nice to the fans during the game because I sit just behind the goal. He was joking with the fans and after the game we turned round and went, have a good Christmas everyone. I was like, that's me. This is probably how football should be.
00:37:14
Speaker
Given the nature. It maybe says a lot about Huddersfield's position that he's the keeper. No, it doesn't at all. I'm sure it's just a lovely chat. If he'd done it up the other end with the away fans in his ear, well, he probably wouldn't have. If Roy Keane was his manager, I'm not sure he'd be too happy to hear that. Yeah, he'd have been dropped immediately, perhaps even then.
00:37:37
Speaker
even let go but yeah like signs is really good. Again a shining light in what was the depressing season and he's played three games for god's sake like this is how desperate we are for something and that red card
Impact of Language Barrier on Boya Signs
00:37:52
Speaker
I'll give it a little bit of air time in the sense of it was a second yellow card. We know the rules, but I can just let it go in the sense of English isn't his first language. We should forgive him for that. We should forgive him for the fact that
00:38:09
Speaker
I think the giving the yellow card for that is a pathetic attempt at trying to get more respect given to the officials because you still see players multiple times in games mouthing f off to the ref like that is second nature to the players at this point and it's like every time I see it I'm just like
00:38:31
Speaker
If you gave a yellow card, even if you introduced sin bins, if you introduced sin bins or gave a yellow card every time that happened, very quickly players would stop swearing at you. You'd have that period where you start here,
00:38:46
Speaker
you know, whatever the standard of telling a ref to F off is now, and you start giving yellow cards every time you'll get up here before you get back down here, but you will get down here very quickly. So that frustrates me that he got sent off for that. But for the rest of the game, you just see players mouthing F off to the ref. That was my frustration. And the worrying thing, maybe it isn't worrying, but I imagine you probably saw this article as well. I think it was,
00:39:12
Speaker
who was saying, you know, Wagner's got to decide, is he gonna let it slide or is he kind of gonna punish signs like Farka did with Jollis when he took the penalty against Liverpool? When I read that, I think it was a fair point that Paddy was making, but the first thing I thought was, please God, no, don't risk it going that way, I suppose.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think he should be... It's not a punishable offence when it feels like there's more to it than signs being really ignorant. I just think if they were to do that and to lead him down the wrong path, it would be so wrong. I think he's going to miss this Millwall game. Then for that Southampton game, we need to see him back in the 11.
00:40:10
Speaker
forget easing him in, forget leaving him out for a bit and bringing him back in. He needs to be back in the mix because we've, as we've already spoken about already, he's better than the other options we've got in those positions. Him and Rowe need to be those two players. Yeah, I think that was a column, I think that was a column, sorry, just to clear Pat's name, because I didn't know that at all. No, no. Yeah, I'm not accusing him.
00:40:36
Speaker
I'm not accusing Paddy or anyone. I think it was Paddy I'd seen who had shared it and it kind of just got me thinking. Yeah, I did say that and I sort of looked at it and I was like
00:40:48
Speaker
while we're giving this air time, like there are much bigger things going on at Norwich City. And I guess, you know, it's looking for another angle in terms of things to talk about. But yeah, really good player, very exciting. Definitely one to fit that creative windier mould, as opposed to literally, obviously, like,
00:41:16
Speaker
physical attribute wise, he's quite similar to Buendia, small, not particularly quick, has this kind of like, I don't know how to describe it, but like, when he's running, it's almost like he doesn't run forward. It's like he's sort of on the diagonal and his legs sort of go like that. I really can't explain it. I'd have to physically get up and show you, which I'm not going to do.
00:41:39
Speaker
but like Buendia was a bit more physical in the sense if he could use his body a bit better I don't think that signs is... It might come with signs though because I think we did see some development in definitely Buendia's upper body and his time at the
Frontline Capabilities and Striker Combinations
00:41:54
Speaker
club. But like again it's like if you actually look at Norwich's front line when it's fully fit and it's no such thing as a fully fit squad in England is there
00:42:06
Speaker
But you have Johnny Rowe who is having an amazing season for a player who I don't think has been particularly great since the beginning of the season. I love him to pieces and he scored some great goals and he's a very clever footballer.
00:42:23
Speaker
but he's not really hit the heights at all since the beginning of the season. You've got him, you've got signs, you've got Sargent who I will back until the day I die, you've got Ida who we've spoken about, you've got Ashley Barnes, Championship veteran. I don't think he's very good, but I think
00:42:42
Speaker
he is an interesting part of a front line and supports this point. But you look at that and you think, okay, that combined with a Norwich City team that likes to score goals, Gabby Sarr again, eases that pressure. He likes to score goals. So they are almost coming from midfield. I mean, from one player, sure. Plus Norwich's mild aerial threat from set pieces, which we never really have had before. You think, okay,
David Varkner's Coaching Approach
00:43:12
Speaker
Let's see how XYZ develops, but it all comes back to David Varkner. It all comes back to poor man management. It comes back to poor substitutes. The fact that you have, what was it? It was at the West Brom game where you had on El Canandez and Pojeta coming on. 18 months ago, if not less, we were trying our very best to get rid of these players because they weren't good enough.
00:43:38
Speaker
Now all of a sudden they're coming on to change a game and to try and win a game. And what is, you know, from an orange seat perspective being labeled as an attempt for the playoffs. So, you know, smash your head against brick wall. I think that's the only way you can approach that because yeah, it's utterly, utterly bizarre. On the West Brom subs as well. A lot's been said about these. I don't know how you were following the game, but I was, um,
00:44:07
Speaker
in the car on the way back from somewhere at halftime when I saw the tweets with photos of Hanley warming up. He was stripped off and ready to go. So we basically knew it was going to be Hanley coming on. And given the red had happened, I was kind of like, yeah, fair enough, put Hanley on an extra body. Then 10 minutes later got in and saw he'd made two subs and brought another center half on and take a row off. Even from not watching the game, that just felt
00:44:35
Speaker
like too much for half time because there's clinging on and then there's you know going to flat five at the back for half the game. I know the goal came what five minutes in but the idea that we were going to be able to stick that out for the whole half is just crazy and it with a with a back five I don't know what the thinking was there. It was just naive and I think it was a man resigned to
00:45:03
Speaker
just accepting that that game was was over. Yeah, but it was hilarious that I think was it two minutes into the second half after this systematic change.
00:45:15
Speaker
It blew up in his face immediately. I think the goal came from across, didn't it? And Norwich's game plan for that day, and I think maybe for Ipswich as well, and we've seen it throughout the season, is with this high-risk, high-reward football, David Wagner thinks he's playing. Your fallbacks are very high up, and Sam McCallum especially, Jesus Christ, that man will just be nowhere near where he should be defensively. But you have your high fallbacks, which allows your wingers to put the ball in.
00:45:45
Speaker
um and I think he put a lot of faith in that back line to essentially combat the crosses which I mean there's a logic to it you can you can see it okay force them to cross the ball have three big centre backs to head the ball away well you can see two minutes into making that change
00:46:03
Speaker
It really is just like, yeah, things are not going your way at all. And for the record, I paid a tenner for that match. And that is the last time I pay a tenner to stream Norwich. It was because... Go on.
00:46:19
Speaker
I think tomorrow's the same, isn't it? If you're not going to the game, then it's not even on the red button. Are they offering a tenner again for me all? I think when it's not Saturday 3pm, it'll be a tenner every time, but I might have to bully a friend of mine or someone I know to pay for it, and then I'll force my way into their property to watch it. That's a joke, just in case that's...
00:46:43
Speaker
yeah that was clear enough it was yeah yeah do you know with my tone i'm thinking hang on a minute maybe i will actually um but yeah it's it's just like it's so dull and i don't know like i hear the question like well how can it be this bad
00:47:04
Speaker
Norwich winning and that form we're on, you know, let's go full circle in the pod. That form we were on before those, that was it four wins in eight or two draws, which is, you know, on paper, a decent return for a team sitting with table in the championship. Before that run, when things were bleak, you'd have taken this run, you know, points wise, but to be sat here after it.
00:47:29
Speaker
with a player you're getting quite excited about suspended against a team away from home that are just going to beat you up, you're back to just no hope at all. And an interesting thing for me, and I think this is where perhaps we'll try and wrap up
00:47:45
Speaker
the Norwich account likes posting matches against teams and highlights against the teams we're playing from from previous season and they chose Gabby Sarra's goal last season and I was thinking okay David Wagner was in charge the squad wasn't too different what really was the difference but like you look at sort of the and they're not minute details but like you had Max Ahrens in right back as opposed to Jack Stacey, Max Ahrens a really exciting footballer who had hit his ceiling at Norwich compared to Jack Stacey who
00:48:13
Speaker
was on a free and it's trying to prove everyone wrong. That immediately is one
Comparing Past and Present Performances
00:48:18
Speaker
play. You had Pookie on the pitch as well. You had an in-form Gabby Sara. You had a bunch, I think maybe Sargent was playing, but you had a bunch of factors that actually contextually squad-wise.
00:48:30
Speaker
quite different. You had a bit more of a settled defence. It would have been Hanley and Gibson playing, I think. Yeah, I think Sorensen played on that. Sorensen scored, yeah. No, it might have been Hanley and Gibson. I think Sorensen was in the middle behind.
00:48:46
Speaker
behind Sarah and McLean. It's interesting you bring the game up because I was kind of thinking, I know we're not going to go over it too much, but thinking back over 2023 and I think that meal wall away game was probably
00:49:01
Speaker
the most excited I felt coming away from a ground about this team, because I think that was the fourth win in five. It took us into the playoffs above Millwall. OK, we still had 10 games left. But when a win like that against a rival takes you into the playoffs, you start to dream, don't you? And I think people were walking home and saying, oh, Wagner has taken us to Wembley, whatever.
00:49:28
Speaker
and then we just nose dive from there. So it feels interesting that that's where we finish the year is going back there. They're not in the mix with the playoffs by any means, but it still doesn't feel like a guaranteed win tomorrow night. It feels like it could go anyway. Yeah, that's exactly it, George.
Current Season Struggles and Consistency Issues
00:49:52
Speaker
It's difficult. I've said that so many times in these videos recently. It's difficult.
00:49:59
Speaker
because there really is quite little to clutch on to. And there are a lot of things that we know need, not reform, but tweaking. And a big part of that is the head coach and direction and vision and all these things. But we're caught in limbo, aren't we? We're going round in, and let's reference the title of this video, we're going round in circles.
00:50:25
Speaker
which is the quality of this league with, you know, alongside the quality of our squad suggests we aren't going to get relegated. We did get a bit worried at one point, didn't we? But we shouldn't get relegated. I don't know. But also I've ever been that worried about it, to be honest. True. But it made for a nice video, didn't it? It made for a nice video title. But come on, George, as a joner, you've got to have that mindset. You've got to have that what sounds the best mindset. But like that's true.
00:50:54
Speaker
It's like, you know, if we win two games, all of a sudden we're up there. This league, it blows my mind. It really, yeah, it does blow my mind. I think I've run out of desire to talk about Norwich, possibly forever. But let's remember, you know, football's sick of cool. What is it? Swings around about it. You know, things come and go.
00:51:25
Speaker
it will get better again. Weirdly enough, I actually am almost excited for this next chapter once they chop Wagner. And I think you'll probably see it at the season, to be honest. I think Ben Napper is biding his time. And this isn't informed. These aren't informed opinions. These are just me speculating based off my hopes for what it's worth. But yeah, it's difficult.
Speculating Norwich City's Future
00:51:54
Speaker
the only sort of thing that could happen next to make anything worse, I think, would be if season ticket prices went up or something. At that point, I would then, well, pay it and turn up. But yeah, I'd still be very upset. It's going to be a pretty key announcement, though, isn't it? And in terms of the timing when it comes as well, I don't know. It's normally around February-March time, isn't it? I don't know the fixtures in that part of the season well enough. But yeah.
00:52:24
Speaker
A lot will depend on how how we're doing at that time and how we all feel about Wagner then if he's still in the job. Yeah, yeah. I think also for the record, pardon me, I think it was a Preston game was the most empty I've seen Cara Road. These figures of attendance is a total nonsense. What was it like?
00:52:41
Speaker
said at the Huddersfield Game. It said 25, didn't they? It said just over 26,000 at the Huddersfield Game. I think it was better at Huddersfield, wasn't it? You're right. I think it was, but it wasn't 26,000. It was not 26,000. Preston was crazy. Preston, so I sit in the river end, lower river end, quite near the front, on the right of the post, and I looked to my left and saw
00:53:02
Speaker
What is parallel to the snake pit? What is that side even called? Not the Wents and the Thorpe, is it? The Thorpe, yeah. We'll call it the Rabbits, then. It was basically empty. The amount of yellow seats that I saw was insane. I don't think it's like strike action, per se. I think a lot of people are quite apathetic about it, and they're a bit like, eh.
00:53:32
Speaker
So yeah, we'll see if that causes any panic, which then forces decisions. We'll see what happens. Um, but for me, that's everything that I'd like to talk about. Is there anything else for you or are we happy to snip it there and pray for better times? No massive points to make for me. I just think the, the Southampton game is one I'm really not looking forward to mainly because, um, when we last had Russell Martin, um,
00:54:01
Speaker
which was earlier this year, they ripped us apart. That was a Swansea team who, you know, have not pulled up any trees really. They played us off the park and Saints are going to turn up scoring so many goals. You know, they're going to be full of confidence. We don't know how it's going to go at Millwall, but yeah, I am quite worried about how the Saints game is going to go.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm terrified. I would be there. Me and my better half are going up to Manchester to celebrate New Year's, so I will do my very best. Probably better off there, aren't you? Yeah, do you know what? I remember the days of when I used to be crushed if I couldn't go to the football. I remember the days of I could not miss the football, where it's now, it's like, eh, we'll just watch the highlights and see how many chances we spooned alongside how many soft girls we conceded. Last thing, Robin Frost makes a great point.
00:54:58
Speaker
Didn't pick for Saints for three months. Yep, Hernandez not scored in over three seasons. Yep, that's a state of play. I don't want to talk about that. Thank you all very much for watching, whether you watch live or whether you're watching or listening even. If you want to rate the episode on YouTube, leave a thumbs up and a comment. Spotify, I think there's like a little green star system. Apple Podcasts, which most of you guys listen on
00:55:25
Speaker
I don't know how you rate that, but I'll find out. I think it might be stars on there as well. I think it's stars on there as well. Um, any of that would be appreciated if you don't want to. Yeah, fair enough. Um, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Hopefully next year we'll have some positive things to talk about. We'll be doing lots more of these live streams. George, anything else to plug any, any particular pieces coming up for you with, with perhaps the women or.
00:55:50
Speaker
The women are back next weekend on the 7th. I don't think there's going to be any any pieces immediately, but yeah, they're back on the 7th. I'm going to Millball tomorrow night, even though the trains are at the Swanee time. I'm quite looking forward to it, to be honest. We've had a few good results down there, down the years, haven't we? I know we had the horrible one with Farka when he first started, but I'm hoping
00:56:17
Speaker
You know, that one is an anomaly and we can carry on a fairly good recent record at the end, but we'll see. Well, my fingers are crossed for you. I'll be watching in one way or another. Thank you all again very much for watching. And until next time, we'll see you again very, very soon.