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"He Is A Gesticulator" ACN Pod 134
900 Plays4 months ago
Jon & Tom cover a huge week at NCFC Towers, including Jonny Rowe, Oxford (A), Idah, Stevenage (H), new signings, outgoings, guarantees for Blackburn (H) and, of course the Delia & Michael news.
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Transcript
Welcome and Recent Events
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich Podcast, a weather-beaten whistle-stop wonder through the wild week at our wonderful Norwich City. It's just me and Punt today, so let's get after it.
Johnny Rowe's Controversy and Career Impact
00:00:32
Speaker
A week is a long time in football, so let's take it one revelation at a time. Firstly, it's Saturday morning and the news that Johnny Rois decided to flush any chance of a long-lasting relationship with Norwich fans down an Oxford toilet. Punt, it wasn't the right way to start the season, was it?
00:00:49
Speaker
Um, no, clearly you just have to wonder how premeditated that was because it just felt massively deliberate from the people that are advising him.
00:01:02
Speaker
Look, I think, you know, from Johnny Rowe's perspective, what is he, 21 years old or, you know, kind of around about that age, if if I hark back to some of the stupid stuff that my mates had done around that age, we've all made ill-advised decisions. Unfortunately for Jonathan Rowe, it is in the public domain and it is something that I don't think football fans are going to forgive particularly easily because it was just so bad to go to your head coach on the morning of a game when you've trained throughout pre-season you've been prolific in terms of you know goal scoring form throughout pre-season and it's been really clear that unless the right offer comes in he's going to be a big part of the plans. I just can't fathom why anyone, anyone at all involved in the professional game would think
00:01:51
Speaker
That's a good idea. And you know even if and we've heard loads of noises about Roe wanting maybe to angle for a move for for some time, and that's why contract negotiations last season weren't particularly fruitful. But even if that is in the back of his mind, the optics around it to any interested party to say, well, if this is when you're agitating for a move, this is how you're going to behave.
00:02:17
Speaker
Just you know that's not great, is it? Because most clubs now do their due diligence in terms of like you know what kind of a human being are we signing. That can't be brilliant for for any prospective buyer.
Norwich City's Team Culture and Player Behavior
00:02:31
Speaker
It's daft. I do wonder now, the club are in a really difficult position in so much as I think they've played it correctly. I think they've played it really, really well in terms of making sure that he doesn't affect the culture of the group right now, and he's been ostracized into the 21s. That is definitely the right move until the 1st of September, but it's just such a long road back for him. And if he is still in the building, because we are going to dig our heels in around Fi, and we have to, you know, we have to do that on a point of principle almost.
00:03:01
Speaker
um Is this just going to overshadow everything that Torrup's trying to do in terms of culture? And he was really clear about the fact that the culture is fairly stinky right now.
00:03:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think that you're right that they can't allow a fee to seem like it was lower than Marce might have got him for because he was kicking up a stink. The precedent has to be set that if you behave like a dickhead, then that doesn't mean you get a move. If you agitate for a move by taking yourself out of the matchday squad on the morning of a game,
00:03:41
Speaker
And to be honest, it's completely irrelevant of whether or not there was a conversation had and it was decided on both parties that his head
Season Reflections and Strategy Adjustments
00:03:50
Speaker
wasn't right. That doesn't matter. to that That doesn't affect the point that you're making, that when you consider the overall cerebral part of the game, um if if your if your head is not strong enough to not have your head turned by transfer speculation,
00:04:06
Speaker
and especially a club like Marseille who are also a selling club, you know much more successful than Norwich, much higher up the European football pyramid than Norwich, but still a stepping stone to larger clubs. and So therefore if he does what they would hope he would do and rip it up there,
00:04:21
Speaker
um then it's very likely that they will um and they'll be in a similar situation where Champions League clubs of a higher stature than Marseille will come knocking, meaning that that maybe he his head won't be in the right place to play for them. So know is it was a really, really disappointing start to what had been a season that actually It's been incredibly quiet, really, other than the Sarah news. and The change all happened kind of at the end of the the previous season, and it kind of felt that that all happened, and it felt like it was part of saying goodbye to the previous season. and It had been a fairly quiet, uneventful preseason. No results that made you think, oh my goodness me, we're going to get relegated. No results that made you think Crikey, we're going to get promoted. Lots of mitigating things, Copper America, Sarge, Cordoba being slightly injured.
00:05:12
Speaker
et cetera, et cetera. That's all kind of bythe by the To start the day with the team news being he's in the squad. He's not in the squad. And by the way, it's not because of an offer that's met our evaluation. It's because he didn't want to play. Who knows what tone that set.
00:05:29
Speaker
I think going forward there isn't a way back for him for this transfer window. I think they have to try and move him on. There is a precedent for a player falling out of favour and still becoming a Hall of Famer. Where's Houlihan?
00:05:47
Speaker
you know, transfer request, Chisholm's Club, etc. That was forgotten when incredible and output on the pitch followed it up for you know a number of months and years afterwards. so But in this transfer window, I really do think because of where we're at as a club at the moment, we need turnover, we need new players in, we need fresh blood. A a fit and firing Johnny Rowe makes this football team better. like No doubt about that. However,
00:06:16
Speaker
If he's already got to the point where he can't concentrate on a game against what should be a beatable opponent and should be a bunch of players that wouldn't that would never get picked in a team ahead of him, if he can't lick his lips at that and think, hey, I'm going to put another 500 grand on my transfer fee today by scoring that trick against this slot,
00:06:34
Speaker
If his mindset's not there, then I worry that if the the fee doesn't go through, and and and we we don't actually get rid of him in the in the summer, how do you integrate him back into the team? Because then whoever does then play, whether it be Elliott Miles or Forsythe or um Science and Fastenact who I thought was poor on Saturday, we'll come to that in a minute.
00:06:56
Speaker
And how do you then say all would you done everything exactly as we've asked you to turn up on time ah but actually this lads now gonna come back into training in case he's clearly better than you so even though he doesn't want to be here and if what no he doesn't want to be here he's now he's now got the you know the the number twenty seven sure instead of you ever i think that's really tricky i think it really is now it's now best for all parties.
00:07:17
Speaker
even if we have to take a million off
Transfer Talks and Club Culture
00:07:19
Speaker
what we said we were going to have. But what do you reckon that number is? What what do you think is the walk away price for Norwich in terms of, you know, for for if it if for Ida it's eight and a half, and let's say they they said nine and they've gone down to eight and a half, it's got to be what, 12, 14 for Johnny?
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, ah the noises that the EDP lads kind of indicated was that when they came in, when Leeds came in with a derisory, would you even entertain seven that that it was kind of will double it? um Yeah, you'd think maybe 1314 might be a number where and you know, that doesn't necessarily have to be the initial fee, you know, it could be like 10, 11, 12, and then it's structured with bonuses and add ons and all the rest of it. I think you're right, though, that that actually this might chip away a million or two.
00:08:07
Speaker
ah at Rose Fee purely because clubs are going to know that he's acted in that way. And if they are still keen, and that is a big if, I think, you know, because we've we've only heard of Leeds and Marseille that might have but some kind of interest. But they're they're then going to think, well, actually, could we just be a bit cheekier with the offer? Could we just push it? Because it's obvious to anyone, you know, observing the football club from from outside in that you know The manager is is actively saying in post-match press conferences, we need to change the culture and we can't have players um acting in in this way. And you know as much as he's not necessarily referencing Johnny Rowe completely, and there are you know other senior figures within the dressing room that that he's maybe thinking about as well, he's definitely making you know kind of some kind of barbed towards Rowe as part of that.
00:09:02
Speaker
and the club has to be seen to be putting the club above everyone else, you know, kind of, and and the culture. The thing for me is, I think that what this is perhaps suggestive of is that if we go back to Wagner's tenure, Wagner seemed really popular with the players and a bit more like one off the lads. And, you know, there was almost this like Huddersfield Collective wasn't there as well, you know, it so it was all it was all a bit, you know, kind of jobs for the boys and and all of that.
00:09:29
Speaker
So he possibly he rode the success, if we want to call it that, in terms of getting into the playoffs ah you know off the back of his popularity with the players and and keeping that dressing room together. That was clearly built on sand. So you know now if we if we want to do like real root and branch stuff and and build proper foundations, it's going to take a a hell of a lot of time and possibly a whole lot of spending money.
00:09:57
Speaker
Well, let's try and stick chronologically if we can. So the Oxford game... what I mean the Oxford game... And it wasn't a game. ah From what I saw, Oxford looked like relegation candidates to me, incredibly basic. um The two goals were Sunday league goals. and It drove me up the wall. the I wanted a ticket, desperately
Team Tactics and Recent Matches
00:10:25
Speaker
wanted a ticket, it couldn't get one, didn't have enough away visits last year to be in the top tier. That is fair.
00:10:33
Speaker
glad i couldn't go because it would have been fuming but it did mean that i had to listen to the co-coms on sky saying that's not just a long pump forward no that's a really no it's a fucking long pump forward that is a long hump forward hoping that either handi makes an error and or you get a lucky bounce. And then the second ball, oh, that's a pinpoint crossing. No, it was headed away. It was headed down to an unmarked player. They're two Sunday league goals. The fact that we've then conceded another three Sunday league goals, although the third one really was quite unlucky on Tuesday. The second one's a foul.
00:11:08
Speaker
oh cany Well, I mean, that the point is it's lumping balls in the box and lumping balls long. They're the fight they're the the five goals that have been conceded this season so far are from long lumps. Now, we get you get lots of that in the championship. I thought Oxford were incredibly ah motivated, enthusiastic, fit, keen, well-drilled from a this is what we do point of view.
00:11:29
Speaker
but my goodness me we caused them no problems and we only needed to get into first and a half gear in passing to suddenly be through and create and and and be on the edges of their box. You know it it was the very few times we strung past us together and actually played with any kind of tempo which was very few and far between we sliced through them in no time and a couple of better Choices in the first half science taking a shot when he should have squared it and and I can't remember who the other one was But there was another one where sergeant was the more obvious Pass when a shot was taken on couple of two and might both been science to be fair That could easily have been very different and and and all the rest of it but I am willing to give for up a complete pass on that in that he was he must have been thrown through a loop in terms of
00:12:14
Speaker
team strategy, how we were planning on getting the ball forward, what we would have worked on all week in training. and You know, that that is a fascinating blessing. I'm sure he tried his best. ah Technically astute player has propped up with a couple of goals in the last couple of years. I'm sure he's lovely. He's a long way is a lot lower in terms of ceiling, of impact on a game than a Johnny Row is. And he fundamentally changes the way that we're capable of playing. So I give Thor a pass on that. Moving to the Steve in this game, which we watched a few seats away from each other, because we obviously can't sit next to each other.
00:12:57
Speaker
and i I would have sat next to you, but our children sat in the middle, so it's fine. That's because our children get on with each other a lot better than we do. and But but and they they were they they felt more like a different team on Tuesday.
00:13:15
Speaker
And I know a lot of that was because the personnel was different, but it did feel more like a different team on Tuesday, even with that same midfield ah than it did on Saturday. Do you agree? It felt a bit more like, okay, this might be the start of someone trying to play differently.
00:13:32
Speaker
um Really difficult to judge given that Stevenage were pretty terrible but yeah and in terms of their technical ability. But you know look they roughhoused us and they really wanted to to get into us and see what we were made of and and I felt like Norwich kind of stood up one to the physical challenge in that regard which I think you know if we're going to play more technically this season is important that we're able to do.
00:13:54
Speaker
but two we didn't get we didn't get drawn into to anything daft you know we didn't bite as a result of that so i think that's that's good but stevenish we're we're really really basic um oxford were.
00:14:09
Speaker
pretty average. um But I think, actually, look, if we if I just go back to Oxford for a moment, I think there's mitigation in terms of felt like a moment for them, the commentators were at pains to say it again and again and again, like, you know, it's their first match in the the second tier for whatever it was, 25 years, um or 26 years, whatever um that number was.
00:14:28
Speaker
And it felt like a moment for them. So it's almost like the momentum that they had went into that game. And although Norwich could have been better, actually, I thought Oxford played some okay stuff. And I think that they nullified some of what we were trying to do relatively well. So they they clearly had a look at us in pre-season. With Stevenage, we had, well, not 90 minutes, but we had, you know, kind of a fortune from the start.
00:14:54
Speaker
looks like a real player but actually looks like the you know and unless not you know because we were saying this about Marcelino Nunez after a couple of games you know kind of for a while back but he does look like a hell of a player it does look like his his ability to take the ball on the half turn just get helps Norwich quicken the play through the you know through the pitch because there's not many players who do that effectively at championship level, but you know he he clearly looks like someone who's his ability is and on the ball is is why he was earmarked as someone who should be part of our midfield.
00:15:27
Speaker
I quite like, if we're going to play three in that midfield, I quite like the balance that all three of those individuals in terms of Kenny, Marcelino and Forsen bring us, and there's a left footer in there. um So as much as he said that he usually plays on the right-hand side of midfield, you know he looked fairly adept on the left-hand side. i think fur I know we're not going to look forward to Saturday yet, but I think that the two matches, if you just put them in in contrast,
00:15:55
Speaker
What it does for me is it highlights the challenge for Torup and the immediate challenge for Torup because we really struggled with crosses into the box on Tuesday night.
00:16:07
Speaker
the immediate way that you would say you could counteract that is to put someone like Shane Duffy or Grant Hanley into the side. However, we looked way better playing out from the back and some of our positive play was the ability to break the pair press from either like, you know, big diagonal from Jaden Warner or actually Jaden Warner or Brad Hills being a bit more brave on the ball and being able to play out of defense and then actually set none years away who was able to then, you know, play a meaningful pass to someone in the channel and and then bang, we're away and we've scored.
00:16:36
Speaker
um or you know get set Kenny aside and and then you know he he's um you know he's done something effective as well. like Our ability to be able to play through like that into midfielders so that midfielders aren't taking the ball where they're back to goal, they're not having to drop deep to to receive the ball, they are actually you know kind of front-facing when they're on the ball, is massively important to the way that Norwich plays. But it looks like we can only achieve that, and certainly in the the immediate term,
00:17:03
Speaker
If we're playing a Warner or maybe a Hills, Warner looked a bit more technically adept to me. um However, there's going to be deficiencies in terms of balls coming into the box and at championship level. that's a problem, you know, because you will have big strong lumps who are going to want to put their head on it. So it probably for me, it has to be a combination of a big strong lump and a ball player. And I think it might be that Torup immediately anyway, and I think Torup and Ben Nappa may, you know, kind of not necessarily this window, but maybe next, maybe looking at identifying other targets that can can do a bit of both rather than having one that can do one um and the other that can do the other.
00:17:42
Speaker
um But yeah, that for me, the two matches, and they're you know looking at them in their entirety, that's what stuck out to me as as the immediate cause for concern. I think it was less an issue balls into the box once
Player Development and Performance
00:17:57
Speaker
they were there and more of an issue in terms of how you balance being able to play out and reduce that in stopping the balls coming into the box. I mean, we both on Tuesday and on Saturday, it was too easy to Set yourself roll the ball out of your feet and then play exactly the type of ball into the box You want to there wasn't enough pressure on it and whether that's force and having to be used to being ah Narrow midfielder that then has to come out and double up whether that has to just be people getting more used to oh I'm used to having Callum Doyle behind me or I'm used to having Jack Stacy behind me because they haven't played in that combination or with those players before and That might help but and i I just having seen Norwich with Hills and Warner and having seen Norwich with Hanley and Duffy, I mean I know which Norwich I would prefer to watch and and and yes results are important and results will keep Thorpe's job ultimately.
00:18:52
Speaker
um I would rather see youth fail and learn from those mistakes than see people who we already know the ceiling of fail and I'd rather us fail through trying to play out. So that the goal you mentioned where Warner did a ah kind of drag back croif turn on the edge of the ah penalty box, which then meant that he'd he was able to play the ball through to Kenny, who was then able to play Stacy in and Stacy did what he doesn't do very often.
00:19:24
Speaker
he played a first time ball across for Hernandez to crash home and Stacey not putting the ball in straight away is if Thorpe can fix anything with him his play or not not fixed because he's you know he's been he's actually had had a very good first season I thought if he could enhance him and coach him in any way, it would be, if you are going, if the end result is going to be a ball in, play it as soon as you can, you know, before, us because Sargent will benefit from that. and But yeah, I mean, a word on Hernandez, you know, there was a sword, a pink in headline of it was being a riposte from being left out of the 25 or whatever on.
00:20:00
Speaker
and on Saturday. I think he was, everyone else had a reason to be in the team. Who's left who can play up front because we really can want to try and get through this game without having to play Sarge if we can. O'Nell, do you fancy go? I mean, he he's not ah he's not a realistic ah alternative to Sarge, is he?
00:20:17
Speaker
No, bless him. a lot We all love on L4 non-footballing reasons. um And a few footballing reasons. The blustery winger who's the little engine that could, his attitude on the pitch is that does get people on side as well. I don't think you'll ever get to the levels of I think it's worth saying, you the levels of O&L love that there is in ah at Norah City, you could never get that purely through Bantz. It is because he has given his all again and again and again. Yeah, and I think that's that's application, isn't it, rather than actual technical ability. But but yes, yeah, you're right. you know And and you know look, the fact that he takes you into the dressing room in his, whatever it's called, Cuban Baller, is it? you Like the YouTube videos and all of that kind of stuff. And and you see,
00:21:06
Speaker
his personality. And actually, like if you meet the guy, you know, like my daughter met him um quite recently, couldn't have been, you know, kind of nicer, just comes across as as a very, very good human. um Yeah, he's never going to be a striker, is he? Bless him. But I was really pleased for him that actually that I don't know. like Is that the maybe a really fitting way that we he should just sign off his career and we we should look to move him on because I think Torrup is sending signals now and we can get into maybe the Grant Hanley signal a little bit later but Torrup sending signals.
00:21:41
Speaker
him on but not being part of the 18 when Johnny Rose not even part of the 18 and you need maybe identify the on L in terms of like pure running and energy is as close to Johnny row as anyone else in the in the squad certainly not in terms of the way in which you can shift the ball and and technical stuff but you know actually effort um on else the closest It just says to me that there's not a future for him at this football club. And as you've quite rightly identified, well, there was no one else to play up top because he was off to Celtic. So, you know, actually, I don't know, do you fancy a run out? I'd maybe just see if we can move him on now. And it would be a lovely, lovely way for him to to send things off.
00:22:24
Speaker
It just feels to me like there's a real changing of the guard. And as I said, the Hanley thing, it's it's just, that felt seismic to me that you hook your skipper after, I don't know how long it was, but like between 60 and 65 minutes, wasn't it? Well, looking at his face, it felt seismic to him. I mean, yeah i have and i mean he looked absolutely shell-shot. It cannot have happened to him before. um And he did let himself. Without an injury. And I think, you know, as I said to you on Tuesday night,
00:22:54
Speaker
it felt like that was his Russell Martin moment here in terms of club captain. The Millwall away, yeah. probably Yeah, the Millwall away. Like, you know, he will. Exactly. And, ah you know, whether it's like, you know, now him and Duffy that will, we you know, almost be labeled as culpable for for that performance.
00:23:11
Speaker
I don't know. But it then so you know it surprised me that he was on the bench on Tuesday, but then when he didn't come on as a result, when you'd pretty much given everyone else minutes in in positions, you know even if it was just Doyle came on at centre back and then shifted to left back and then Duffy came on and then you know there was other movement in there and the defensive. um in a kind of four I was just like, I think he's done. And I think if the club got a reasonable offer for Hanley, they'd try and shift him on.
00:23:38
Speaker
um and And actually, Hanley, probably out of the two, if you look at Hanley and Duffy, Duffy's going nowhere with two years on whatever wages he's on. Whereas Hanley, if there was, I don't know, say, maybe it's too big, too big a club in terms of, you know, profile at the moment, but say like a Coventry came in for Grant Hanley and said, like, we can pay you 15 grand a week and we'll give you a three year deal. Pretty feel like a good move for the lad. You know, he's got you. tim To me, it feels like he goes Scotland or nowhere.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. It could be that he's off to Rangers and that's his destiny and actually that would probably be a Rangers. Which one would he be? I think he's Rangers over Celtic, isn't he? I don't care. That's why they're covering it. They will pick a team. Kenny was Rangers, so part of me thinks that I can see any more Rangers.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah, he definitely looks a bit more rangers than Celtic, yeah, just on a physical appearance, yeah. i think if we I think it would be Scotland or nowhere, because in Scotland he would be received more, you feel like he would always have he'd have a bit more clout up there wages-wise maybe, obviously, but the wages aren't as high in Scotland.
00:24:40
Speaker
But, um, yeah, i I don't know.
Club Ownership and Management Changes
00:24:43
Speaker
I feel like if he was going to spend that more as a positive thing that oh I want to finish my career in Scotland rather than yeah and ah Oh, shit. I'm now playing in Coventry for goodness sake. But sometimes it's aware that this moment. be Yeah, I mean, but it's sometimes it's where the money goes as well, isn't it? But it would be a strange echo again of Russell Martin if he ended up at Rangers, given that Russ ended up there you know immediately after the the fuck of fall out.
00:25:07
Speaker
Well, so let's just pick up on a few of you because you just mentioned Doyle there. We've we've we've had some new incoming and we've we've seen a little bit of him. So for some we just touched on there. I mean, you yeah know you mentioned Nunez who i I would say we've've we've been proving right to recognize his talent as soon as he came but I mean maybe we thought he was gonna especially after the whole free kick and what have you we we thought maybe oh we was heralding son miliano brand yeah we thought he was be as good as Simon but I mean he has obviously been a terrific sighting but um the Forsen looks maybe even more exciting ah just because of how
00:25:47
Speaker
little we've got of that type of player. I mean, he he the that the speed with which he moves the ball, the number of fouls that he has already won in in ah in just under a game and a half. and ah by ah Well, the ball is this side. Oh no, the ball's the other side of my foot now and you had to pull me down. I mean, he he is his he's so slight And his center of gravity is so low that he he twists and turns and gets out of spaces. And playing out against the press, I think that that is a really good option for for whether he's on the right or the left and it's Doyle or it's Stacey or whoever, ah giving him the ball to to shift and and and get us out of tight spaces. He he looks like exactly what we needed there. Well, him and Nunez are excellent at that. And like yeah that's not Kenny's strength. like you know Kenny has other things that but he's all right at. But pointing.
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah, definitely pointing. um But actually those two... Speaking of, sorry, just on that point, ah Doyle is a pointer. Doyle did some solid pointing. But also Doyle did some almost... But Doyle was quite good with the football. Yeah, almost some kind of pulling his pulling his hands down his face, like shock. I mean, there was he looked he on at Oxford he... do you really look like something for what on earth if i joined here he is a gesticulator yeah yeah so anyway yeah you can do carry on so we got new years and i so i i i agree new years and new years in force on either side of kenny i like that he went no come on we we need to get this this trio playing and get some confidence into them
00:27:18
Speaker
after half an hour, yes, that you can only play what's in front of you. And Stevens didn't offer any great shakes in the middle of the park. I think that might have been just what we needed to to give the confidence to those three that you know what, we can probably create some chances as a three even in the championship. I know we're playing league one tonight. So yeah, that was positive.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. and And I think like, you know, as I said on the last pod, I think this is this season could well be the emergence of Marcelino Nunez. I really hope it is but because he just comes across as a good character and someone who loves playing the game and is a good friend. Edie Mullen describes him, you know, a happy, lovely boy. So happy, lovely boy. yeah You just you just want to see things happen for him. But going back to Doyle,
00:28:01
Speaker
It just looks really good with the ball, doesn't it? And I think, you know, we were kind of throwing in all the defensive mix. When Chris Sennes fit, he's doing all the left-sided centre back until, you know, Cordoba is, is you know, because it like he feels a bit broken. And you know with Cordoba, I know there's chat that he might be in the mix for Saturday, but he's had 15 minutes of preseason and a bit of Copa America. Like, you can't can't expect the lad to to be starting or playing anything meaningfully. Like, is it?
00:28:30
Speaker
I don't know, is it Doyle and you know kind of and and maybe another? you know Maybe it could be Doyle and Warner or it could be Doyle and and Hills. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it was Doyle and Hills. um i dis thought Did you think like Hills was better than Warner on Tuesday? Because I thought Warner was better with the ball. i did think was I thought Warner did slightly more with the ball, but some of that I think was situational just of when he when he received the ball in his ability to yeah I don't know maybe, I don't think Hills was maybe just in as many positions where he needed to do something that impressed you with the ball. I didn't see any issues with the ball at his feet. He pinged a couple of lovely balls out out wide. and i thought he was I thought he looked like ah he looked like a player. like He looked like he belonged and he was ready to go and and he didn't give me
00:29:18
Speaker
any of the impressions of you who was playing the cup game. like he He really did handle himself really well. I thought he made some a couple of mrco made a couple of naive decisions when he could have got rid when he tried to play out, but I kind of liked what he was trying to do, even to to an extent, even his own goal.
00:29:37
Speaker
I liked his leadership. to try and get anyway yeah i felt like he he think it was that I think he got outmuscled a few times and he didn't look as big and as imposing as as a central defender as maybe when I'd seen him on the telly. and i was like actually I thought he was ah not necessarily a lump, but you know it must you know there there was a bit of an imposing figure. He didn't look like that kind of six foot four, you know, kind of bricks.
Game Highlights and Player Insights
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's more athletic. I mean, he's more not necessarily playing the ball, but more of a stones style. Big lad, you know, big, big, big and big and athletic and big. I want to look definitely he ah for me. Warner looked the better technical player. And again, you know, it's what Torup is is going to place emphasis on, isn't it? You know, and I thought the withdrawal of Warner and maybe give him a rest. I was like, is that with a view to to Saturday? Because I think he's got the full 90, didn't he? The own goal was like,
00:30:27
Speaker
two or three minutes before time. Yeah, and that was only because he was just like, well, this is going to go down the corridor of uncertainty. Yeah, he had to throw a leg at it. Yeah, there's there's no culpability there. And again, you know, like as much as, you know, we're highlighting the the defensive frailties and and there were a few with balls being thrown in the box. If Kenny doesn't get bundled over and that goal doesn't get scored and then we, I don't know, go four, one up.
00:30:51
Speaker
And then hills, you know, it doesn't have that unfortunate incident. No one's worrying about the defensive performance. Are they really, you know, that, so I don't, and I don't know if, um, if that game finishes three, one or four, one, I don't think there's anyone that's even, it's going called that didn't destroy school. I didn't tell the story of the game. We were all like, like no, we we were all over you the whole game. You had a couple of breakaways and a couple of lumps in the box and you got lucky on a couple of them.
00:31:15
Speaker
like let's not let's have it right we would I mean they missed a sitter in the first half they're number 10 I think um should should have nicked should have nicked and got gone one that up um because I we do look like it's too easy to get to the byline and and ba buzz it in like that that is something they're gonna have to work on but to that point and we'll move on from from Stevenage um because we actually spent more time talking about cup football than league football at the moment but i ah I was really pleased in Forsen, and a few people have picked this up, in the Forsen post-match conference. he needs to get He needs to do a deal with some chewing gum, by the way. He seems like a rapid chewer. He needs to get an endorsement deal. I liked that Forsen said, at the end of that in in interview, ah you know you know he was asked about, you know is the manager happier with the with the result, or have you just been in there? Is the atmosphere better in in the change room or something? he said
00:32:05
Speaker
and he sort of face-dropped and went, no, no, we we've been told off that that that was well but below the standards they were expecting. We shouldn't be conceding those goals. And I thought, good, that's right. so I it's very, very early days, but and despite it being a win against a very poor League One team and a loss against...
Ownership Transition and Club Future
00:32:24
Speaker
ah I reckon a bottom four, bottom five championship team. I like the cut of the jib of Thorpe so far and and so far that the the the players they've bought in, I'm a big fan of. and um' i'm Just to pick up again, going chronologically,
00:32:41
Speaker
We obviously found out about Michael and Delia, but I want to just leave that slightly to the end. I want to pick up on the Eda thing because we obviously knew that Eda was going to be off by the fact that he wasn't in the Stevenist squad. i'm ah It's fantastic business. that's That's really good money. If we get it in two or three gyps and drabs, I think that's really good.
00:33:00
Speaker
I do have a concern that Napa so far hasn't signed anyone good up front. He's only signed one forward player. But he was so bad that I think it's worth it. That was almost with a reaction to Ida going out kind of last minute and then we needed to... I think an agent chucked Van Hooy Donka at Napa and he was like, oh well.
00:33:26
Speaker
He's better than nothing. I mean, you know, there there was talk that they wanted Wang back, wasn't there? Which, you know, again, you know, the no dickheads rule and all that kind of stuff. we We could talk about that endlessly. But we've we've done that to death on previous podcasts.
00:33:40
Speaker
Well, we are um ah we we are definitely in the market for Stryker. We're recording this Thursday lunchtime and the and the press conference for Blackburn is is ongoing at the moment and they basically confirmed now that and they're in the market for lots of different options. They won't have signed anyone in the next 48 hours.
00:33:58
Speaker
and But yeah, it's he's going to be Sargent on Saturday as long as he doesn't pick up an injury. and But that is that's absolutely key. It's an opportunity and for a new hero.
00:34:13
Speaker
um ah it's ah It's an opportunity for someone to come in and challenge and Sarge and perhaps b play alongside Sarge. Johannes has confirmed in today's press conference that there has been MLS interest in Josh, but you know that window is closed so hes he's not going there. So if you know that was mainly where the interest was coming from, maybe you know maybe he does stay.
00:34:36
Speaker
You feel like it would be, it would we could really do with with Sarge getting off off the mark on on Saturday and and feeling like there's at least goals from from one source. Who knows, maybe maybe maybe Hernandez does get a run out ah up top for the last 10 minutes on on Saturday, because you feel like Sarge has got to be wrapped in cotton wool at every opportunity at this point, right?
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah, um it's a concern that Ashley Barnes is the backup and Ashley Barnes, I don't even know what the status is of his injury, but you know, he's definitely in the next few weeks out, you know, at the very least, you know, there doesn't seem to be any talker of a return for him. And actually, he just doesn't feel like a turret player, does he? You know, really, in in terms of I think you're going to need to be a bit more agile and and mobile to to playing in a Tourette team. I worry about Josh Sargent because the there was plenty of noise over the summer that they were still managing his injury and managing his ankle and and you know for the national team as well that that seemed to be ah a source of concern.
00:35:37
Speaker
So we are literally, right now we have one striker which what you know is maybe 80-90% fit. And I know a lot of footballers are probably only ever 80-90% fit, but there is the spectre of that ankle injury you know always hanging over him.
00:35:52
Speaker
So yeah, you're right. I mean, wrap him in cotton wool, you know, if we're 2-0 up or 2-0 down on Saturday, you know, and we yeah we have to, you know, we have to um withdraw. Well, 2-0 down and you take Sargent off, that'll go down well. yeah But, you know, maybe that is that we, you know, we have to protect him, you know. Yeah, and I get that. Well, he's just said, he's just said again in his conference that Cordoba will be um around the team on on Saturday, both him and Chris Enny have been in full training. so Well, what we were told with Cordoba was he was not he wasn't injured on on Tuesday. He just didn't have enough minutes in his legs and and they're prioritizing the league. So it may well be that he does start and and maybe it'll be Cordoba and Duffy. We'll see. it'd be interesting to see Crisseni because he's got, you know, I think he
00:36:40
Speaker
He looks like a really interesting signing and if he's if he's technical and ball playing that will really help us from building out from um From both full backs because we know that Jack Stacy can progress us up the pitch really fast So I'm I'm excited to see him and I would I would I would you know we will obviously grade the transfer business at the end of the window when we know for sure who's here and who isn't but So far, I feel like we're doing everything that we could be asked of, asked of us. And one of the listening questions that came in was about ah rail seating. So whilst we're on, Stephen, as you get, we really are going to focus on this meaningless cup competition we won't be in because Palace will knock us out in a couple of weeks um in the next round. ah Rail seating. but How do you think it looked? We haven't sat in it yet because we weren't in in our seats in the park that we will be on Saturday.
00:37:29
Speaker
So what did you think any comments? Oh, we're both in their upper Berkeley now, aren't we? So yes, I know but we would have we would have a better bird's-eye view Oh, we'd have a better view of the rail see and i'd be able to see what people were liking it from you know from Tuesday We weren't Tuesday. We weren't we couldn't really see it just look like bars across the seats I didn't hear anything from anyone who was there in those seats positive or negative.
00:37:50
Speaker
I think it was ah for me, people that had been at the Lioness' game and some preseason friendlies had received it quite well. um I think there was, I don't know whether the club missed an opportunity. I know that just putting the bars in um and then not changing the seating and not changing the concrete in the stand was a quick way to get around that support or safety aspect of of the whole of the Barkley and the whole of the snake pit, basically standing for the whole game.
00:38:15
Speaker
But the the you know the science around this is actually if you have all of the supporters standing, um if you change you know the kind of the layout of the stand, you can get more fans in. Now, whether that's a cost benefit down the line or how many years it would take to realize that.
00:38:29
Speaker
I don't know, but it's a brilliant move by the club, really pleased that they've done it. um you know they They made enough noise about doing it and then didn't progress it you know over the last five to six years, but they have finally done it. And what you can say is it is part of a wider picture in terms of they believe will will help generate better atmosphere. But I think what it does What it does demonstrate is that they are the club is committed and I think the Lion and Castle demonstrates this as well. The club is committed to investing in the infrastructure around Carrow Road and it needs it because there are some areas that are looking quite tired.
00:39:10
Speaker
So let's get to Sir Michael and Dame Delia because and it obviously was confirmed this year this year it was this year it was confirmed this week and that ah they will be passing the torch becoming life presidents and I thought that some of the detail of that that came out um after the the initial kind of initial announcement and it became kind of clearer late Tuesday and more so on Wednesday, the fact that they are not taking ah any cash ah or any guarantee of any cash in order to you change from director to print life presidents and to and you know no no longer become majority shareholders is actually something
00:39:54
Speaker
that they foreshadowed in a ah conversation they had with us. and So we had the we had the benefit of sitting down with them a few years ago in in formerly of this parish Lorny's sitting room. ah We each baked Delia a cake and she liked Lorny's the best. Sitting room. shamm but What the fuck? Living room, boy. You can't say sitting room. Can't I? What's wrong with sitting room? All right, let's just park around. Lounge.
00:40:21
Speaker
but Anyway, fine. You're in the lounge, and Delia liked Lorny's cakes the most, and that was annoying for all of us. No, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not what happened. She refused to judge them.
00:40:33
Speaker
And then Lorny lournie tried to claim the victory. okay yeah so Which is very very on brand for Lorny. So you see Lorny winning things. anyway and Revisionism. Yeah, Lorn Visionism, LR. and So anyway, the reason I mention it was because of a line that and the then ah media empire runner at the club, Joe Ferrari, made us take out a particular piece of audio, which we actually said at the time, shows them in a really, really good light.
00:41:02
Speaker
and John, do you want to just share what they told us that night? Yeah. And I think you look we're not we're not betraying any confidence now because actually I think the the reason that that Joe and may even be listening to this, so hello, Joe, if you are. um But you know the reason that he he made us take it out was that he felt in his experience that he didn't want to jeopardize the financial position of the football club. But essentially what Delia and Michael came out and said, I think it was Delia actually, wasn't it, is was that they really liked what the um
00:41:33
Speaker
the wolves owner um had done in terms of selling the football club on to someone with a bit more financial might for just a pound. And and they very much felt like that you know if they if they could let the club go for next to nothing, um to the right person or the right group of people, then they would. And if it was in the best interest of the football club, but then they would. And essentially, for me, that is the decision that they've made right now. They were always true to their word in in that regard. There might have been but really ill-fated interviews that ah for some reason usually ended up in the Times newspaper, um you know, around the fact that
00:42:17
Speaker
You know, they wouldn't entertain offers or that they weren't open to investment, but actually they said it on the podcast. I listened back to it, um you know, kind of earlier this week and once the announcement had been made. I listened back to our conversation and they said on the podcast that actually they were always open to investment and they were always open to conversations and they had actively had those in the past.
00:42:38
Speaker
But they had stopped that because that you know the right person or people hadn't presented themselves. And that what they would do subsequently is they would leave it to, you know, and it was then Stuart and Zoe Weber, I think Ben Kenzel was the club, but they said, look, we'll leave it to them now. We'll leave it to the people running the club. And if they get approaches in terms of investors, that if if those people that we've chosen to run our football club think that it's a good idea, if they will bring it to us and we will entertain it.
00:43:06
Speaker
And let's be frank, that is exactly what's happened. They've remained completely true to their word. They have not financially benefited from this football club. club um you know In fact, you know they they've written off money that they've put into this football club. And although you know they both have considerable wealth in relative terms, you know it's not from a football ownership point of view. So the fact that they probably could have sold on their shares for tens of millions of pounds, because you know I've seen people suggest that you know this deal maybe values the football club at somewhere between 75 and 100 million quid you know that they could have financially benefited and then they could have just walked off and i don't think anyone could really have blamed them if they'd have pocketed you know 40 50 million you know that is the game um
00:43:50
Speaker
you know So the fact that they haven't, I think, just is the measure of the humans that they are. And we can have really long conversations about you know kind of whether they had deep enough pockets and whether they were too idealistic for the modern game and you know all of those bits. And some of those conversations are really, really valid. um you know And I think there was the the people among us who wanted to have considered debate around that actually had some really good conversations around it.
00:44:16
Speaker
But I'd much rather have someone who's idealistic at the top of your football club actually striving to be you know kind of sustainable and self-financing and all the rest of it than the absolute nonsense that had gone on in the game and and you know owned by Arab states and you know kind of and conglomerates and all the rest of it. you know i was I was proud of the fact that our football club um was owned in the way that it was.
00:44:41
Speaker
I get why it has to shift now. I get that the the game is changing. I still think that people expecting seismic change in terms of the way in which our financial model is working might be surprised, especially if you know people we've spoken to who know a bit about the way in which they're the Atanasio group had had kind of run the Milwaukee Brewers, the investment was in infrastructure, it wasn't into playing stuff. And you know although that investment may yield more money for the football club to invest in playing stuff, we're not going to be spending tens of millions of pounds on on strikers anytime soon. But I think you know if we if we
00:45:20
Speaker
looking at this and just and just going like what's our immediate reaction for me this is this is completely this completely demonstrates that they are both very good humans and you know have whatever opinion you want about them in terms of you know their ownership and and the mistakes that they made and the and the absolute joy that they brought to some people as well in terms of you know what the football club achieved under their stewardship but the way that they've bowed out is is with complete grace and says a lot about them Yeah, yeah. So I think we, I can't add to that at all or disagree with any of it and you've perfectly articulated what I think needs needs to be um the legacy really that it's looked back on from their time in the club, which is they didn't have as deeper a pockets as ah would have been optimal, but they had deeper pockets than anyone else who was stood up to save the club when it needed saving.
00:46:17
Speaker
And they made on balance more good decisions than bad. And they appointed people who made more decisions good than bad um on on balance. and the And the amount of joy, you that's the word you you used, you know just the amount of joy that has been propagated by that football club whilst they've been in charge of it for the best part of three decades.
00:46:41
Speaker
um is is thanks to them studying the ship and making sure that the rocky times were actually less rocky than, you know, talk about highs and lows, our lows have not been anything like as dramatic as the likes of Pompey, and you know, the likes of these clubs that have dropped like a stone through the divisions, the likes of Derby, you know, there hasn't been points deductions, there hasn't been court cases, you know, with with dodgy dealings. and We haven't had to, you know, the couple of times we've had to distance ourselves from you know unsavory headlines you have felt like that is a long way away from the ownership of the club that the one thing i'd say also is that i'm from last night at a tenacio point of view that's the legacy that they've now got to follow so they've been they they have bought a football club and for a decent amount of money.
00:47:28
Speaker
but not at a premium. you know They have bought a football club and not inherited debt. They've bought a football club on the basis where, yes, they've spent money to to enable it to be turned into shares, but cash flow wise, there are now not ongoing. Mick Dennis was excellent on this, covering this, and and the Canary's Trust news that was very clear on this as well. you know Our cash flow is better than it was last week. Obviously, it hasn't been ratified. It's got to go through the panels and you vote with three, blah, bla blah, blah.
00:47:57
Speaker
as ah As it stands and as it's due to be voted in AGM e etc the um the cash flow is better so whilst we don't suddenly have 20 million pounds to go and sign um a replacement for Adam Eda, we can make football investment decisions based on our model not based on the debt we've got.
Fan Engagement and Match Predictions
00:48:17
Speaker
And that that is a that is an incredible position to to pick up the club, go through promotions, win some trophies, and bring those parades and that joy to to the to the football club and to leave it in a position where the cash flow is better, the infrastructure is better than when they picked it up. What more could we have asked for three decades ago when when and they picked up the keys? God bless them.
00:48:46
Speaker
guarantees for Saturday. Let's round off on exactly the score and the exact scorers or scorer if we're only going to win one now. Go on, pump. Can I just say something before we get on to Saturday? And it's only because we have been asked um a little bit about this on social media, but other people have messaged me and gone, oh, what's going on there, boy?
00:49:07
Speaker
um And that is around the colour of the nets at Carrow Road. So I only noticed that the colour of the nets at Carrow Road on Tuesday were white and not yellow and green like they have been for the past few seasons after the engagement piece that we did with the football club. I don't know, maybe like three or four years ago when Ben Kenser was there and and kind of initiated that. And I can genuinely say that was one of the things that fans have engaged with the long-term knowledge with the most. it It felt like a really fun thing to do anyway and you know not necessarily like really detail heavy.
00:49:41
Speaker
um But you know it it felt like it was reminiscent of another era when you started talking about colored gold nets. So we didn't know that it was happening. I just wanted to to put that out there into into the world um because we have been asked about it. And um apparently it is for footballing reasons. And the they the football department are looking at whether the players prefer the white nets or whether they would want the green and yellow ones back. I'm a little bit skeptical as to whether the players have had any shouting it but that is the official club line in case anyone is interested and I can see by the face you're making Thomas that you know that that you may share the same levels of skepticism as as I do but you know look whatever I think um what it does demonstrate to me though is that actually it's always the football club is always more fun to be a part of when you talk to supporters and ask them to be involved in decision making and that's what that decision was about
00:50:37
Speaker
It wasn't about whether the yellow and green stripes, the nets were white or the nets were yellow. It was about the fact that You asked to read oh you know the football club and and along come Norwich's facilitators, asked a really simple question and got a brilliant response because of that, because people felt involved and attached to their football club. And we talk about legacies and atanasios and and you know kind of what they they need to do moving forward. And I would say that you know if the new ownership model can make us feel more attached to our football club, then that's one of the markers of success for me.
00:51:16
Speaker
But now you want stuff about Blackburn, don't you? What goals are going to go into those white nets on Saturday? they Oh, so I actually think, as although Blackburn have started like a steam train, it's pre-season, not pre-season, sorry, it's the start of the season. There's always some funny old results, um you know, in the first couple of games. And I wonder whether Torup has had enough of a look at the personnel to start getting a tune out of some of them. um I think we're going to go and do a win and it's going to be 2-0.
00:51:46
Speaker
Uh, and Joshua Sargent is going to get a brace. Oh, that would be pretty good. Wouldn't it? Um, I see your two nil and I raise you for one tonight.
00:52:00
Speaker
yeah Can't see us getting a clean sheet the way we've defended first 180 minutes. Can't see it, but I can see a score in four. That's what I see a clean sheet more than anything, just because it's, you know, no one else is coming. I can see a really happy bouncing Carrow Road at five to five on Saturday. And if we do, if we do a win, I know Torrib isn't immediately like going to do any kind of support away because that would be daft after like just one win. But would you reckon he's gotten his locker for when we start building momentum?
00:52:32
Speaker
I don't know. He sort of meandered around the pitch a bit and on Tuesday. It'd be interesting to see. It depends on the the manner of it, but I mean... He's quite serious, isn't he? Yeah. almost all Almost all managers have got some form of thing, whether it's a fist pump or a wave or a something. Not a big fan of the fist pump, but let's see where he's going anyway.
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, let's hope it's a relevant question. Let's hope we get the answer, even if the answer is, oh, he just claps a bit from the centre circle. Let's hope we find out. No, that's very Dean Smith. We don't want that. We've covered ever so much in these 50 odd minutes. ah Thanks for listening. And wherever and however you follow the game on Saturday, my day you go.