Transcript
ACN : Welcome to the Long Come Knowledge Podcast, a knowingly nonchalant natter for Norwich nerds who need no necessary notifications to know there were no points for knowledge against North End. It's me and Punt today, let's get after it. Punt, what went wrong against Preston?
Jon: um We probably haven't got long enough to dissect this, have we mate? I think first things first, and I believe it has probably been lost by many in the post -match analysis, is I think Preston were really good off the ball, like really, really good off the ball and it clearly had done their homework, had created a shape which nullified a lot of of what we were trying to do. And then I think,
Jon: given that our midfield options were limited, and you know I'm sure we'll get into it in terms of, um you know after today's injury bulletin as well, it just felt like we didn't have the nails, we didn't have the experience, we didn't have the know -how to play through them. And the amount of times we went long when you know almost you were like, hang on, that's not that's not the way that we're gonna unpick the lock here. It just felt,
Jon: For the first time in a long time, I i was like, hang on, I can't really see what we're trying to do. Now, whether that's just a bad day at the office and know Saturday comes and you know and and actually we're we're well well drilled and we go back to our footballing principles like Johannes has indicated in today's press conference that we might, I'll be all for that. but It just, to me, it felt like there was a little bit of throw the plan out of the window. Let's go ah a bit more direct because we know that Preston are going to be more physical with us.
Jon: and they were. um But actually, anytime, you know, kind of I saw successful Norwich side swashbuckling, you know, footballing Norwich sides, you know, come up against thugs in the past, it's, we've always beaten them with our football, um you know, and yeah, you have to have a couple of people in there that are willing to put a foot in, but we've got those in the team, I kind of feel like it was more yeah It was an abandonment of ah of our principles, I think, and and it was a slight concern. And, you know, I'm fully behind Yohannes Offtoro, but it was a slight concern to me that he's kind of done that so early in his Norwich career.
ACN : It's interesting. i I don't think that... I think it was clear what he wanted them to do. I think it was clear how inept at executing it he was. The the the biggest half issue for me from Tuesday night was how and animated he was I mean during the second half it was it was horseshit what we were watching and it had been for most of the game and the two or three times we raised the tempo and and it literally was two or three it resulted in you know what was it one shot on target the whole night
ACN : that the two or three times we raised the temper in the first hour, we were through on goal. It was so stark what needed to happen to change. And yes, we were without Kenny and Nunez. and Presumably Nunez, he didn't feel could do a full 90. And that's why you know Wright got the nod.
ACN : But we we didn't have the ability to to to play out the way he wanted us to. And maybe it was a lack of confidence that that meant that we didn't want to play the ball with the kind of tempo you have to, to beat that kind of diligent press. So yes, Preston came to get 0 -0 and couldn't believe their luck that we gave them the goal after five minutes.
ACN : yet again, an example of a Sunday league level. I mean, the number of goals this season at Carrow Road where you just think they cannot believe that they're in front because we have conspired to give them that goal.
ACN : I mean, we're not conceding 18 -yard curlers into the top corner. We're not conceding well -worked possession goals where they've built from the back, put the ball around the back and tapped it. Do you know what I mean? We concede, oh, he's made a mistake.
Jon: Yeah, yeah.
ACN : Oh, now there's an overlay. Oh, he's called it back. Oh, he's knocked it in. That's how like the number of times we can see that Carol road where there's a change of possession within six or seven seconds before they score, right? It's an okay that comes with the possession game that he wants to play and uses a slightly higher risk, but On on Saturday, sorry on Tuesday my will come and Saturday in a minute on Tuesday. I felt that he ah He bottled leaving Josh on Uh, then blamed the data and the analytics. Now he said in the post -match press conference, and you'd already said on, on, on message before he said it to the, um, BBC Norfolk people.
ACN : ah know, if he gets an injury, if he gets, if he gets injured, then, and you know, then I'll i'll be in trouble. It's like, yeah, mate, but you could quite easily say, look, we we, we're supposed to be having a playoff push here. We need our, I mean, he actually had ah ah a slip in that interview saying our, but our top scorer, i I mean, you know, a really important scorer for us. so You know, clearly he's the guy that slip says it all. He's the guy that if we need a goal, he's the one person you want to have on the pitch. And he took him off. Like we were just starting to build some momentum. Could you not have said, look, five more minutes, six more minutes to see what we can get?
ACN : And then the the actual people he brought on, really bizarre, really bizarre, the order of the subs. And, and you know, Mohovah was having a really rough night after a fantastic start to his Norris City career, but he was playing badly and and looked tired and jaded. and So that would have been a more sensible change to had to happen sooner. Sorensen, other than one key pass, which which created an opportunity towards the end of the game, he and had a really weak game.
ACN : and and yeah with the other people that were on the bench. So like if he's shown anything like he's shown in the last 15 minutes on Tuesday, if he's shown any of that in training since he's been allowed to be here, what is he doing are keeping him back that long in the game? Because he was the one player who looked like he had urgency and tempo and drive. So to me, it was it was less about the tactical thing, because I do think you know i do think I know what half football looks like now.
ACN : Some of his decision making was questionable, but there's no getaway from it. That's the worst performance since Oxford, right? You can't disagree with that punt.
Jon: I think it was arguably worse than Oxford from you know and and that that is a you know I think it was yeah it was the worst for some time you know and I include David Wagner's brand of football in that.
ACN : Well, there you go there.
Jon: you know It was just a really, really poor day. Now, if that's repeated on Saturday, if that's repeated you know kind of in the round, it's a worry. but I don't know I've kind of ive I've still got a lot of faith in this coaching setup I've still got a lot of faith in the personnel that they've brought in and I think that what we might need to get used to as fans and I'll come on to decision -making and tactics in the moment, but there will be games where this happens and then we've got a lot of young players and there's there's plenty of mistakes and Borja's looking for a foul that isn't there and then, i you know, I mean, whatever happened with the centre backs after that, ah I don't know, but you know, you're right. We absolutely gifted them a goal that they had but had not earned and and then they had something to protect and then the match suddenly became became way more difficult. I think on the Sergeant issue,
Jon: people would quite rightly have lost their shit if he'd have stayed on for another 15 minutes, say, and he'd have, you know, pink his hammy would have pinged or, you know, his his ankle ligaments would have gone, you know, and he was maybe overstretching for something and he was tired. you I get the logic with Sarge. I can absolutely see it. And um I'm kind of broadly supportive of continuing to wrap him in cotton wool because we know that a Norwich Cityside without him is mid -table at best, if not worse. And and a Norwich Cityside with him should be top six. that If we had Sarge all season, i I really think we'd be we'd be safely in the top six at at this stage. So I think, you know, if you look at it in microcosm and go, if we were looking for a result, could we have kept to one another 10, 15 minutes and and perhaps squeeze something out? Yeah. If we're looking at it, ah you know, in terms of a longer term picture, then
Jon: I personally, I think he he made the right call. um And we don't have access to that data and analytics. He could have been totally fucked for for for all we know.
ACN : However, however, what I didn't like, what I didn't like is that he blamed, he said, oh, I'm going to get in trouble off the data lads.
Jon: Well, what I would say, this is what I'm coming on to, I think is, oh, okay.
ACN : If I do that, it's like, youre you no, no, no, no, no.
Jon: Well, yeah, but that's, english is English isn't the guy's first language, right?
ACN : You're the head coach. host no
ACN : He's better at it than you and me, but yeah.
Jon: Yeah, well, fair, but you know, so we're a lot of, ah so we're a lot of foreign knowledge managers.
ACN : Low bar.
Jon: But what, but what I do have an issue with is when he does come off, it is, I'd have been perfectly happy to go, right. Anti Cernach through the middle, but we'll, we'll, we'll load it with, you know, I don't know, Bohar in the 10, you know, kind of just behind, you're our sec, you know, kind of on the right, keep jobbing on the left.
Jon: We did kind of do a bastardization of this anyway, but what's Shane Duffy doing up there? But what yeah what is Shane Duffy doing?
ACN : But to be fair, that was right at the very end, but that was bonkers.
Jon: like but that is a complete like you know and And this wasn't like a five minutes from the end, we're going to you know we're going to lob it in and and hope for the best. This was, I don't know, a good 20 minutes before before it was, ah I mean, I just didn't, I could not get it.
Jon: I cannot fathom it to this day. But that to me felt desperate, absolutely desperate. um and And that's the decision that I would point to and go, that's just bizarre, totally bizarre. I mean, Shane Duffy, for me, has you know as much as he's had a really good season, he's been struggling in defense, I would say, for about the past four to six weeks. you know he's looked His distribution has been noted noticeably poorer.
ACN : So bad.
Jon: um a he was just He was just there to try and get his head on things and ah it didn't feel like to me that was the way that we were going to be able to to craft the goal. It it felt like you know look we've got you know we wanted to get Bohar in promising positions maybe on the edge of the box. We wanted to to probably get Urasek in positions where he can feed like ah not necessarily a hopeful whipped cross into the into the box, but you know one where he fizzes it along the six -yard box. Shane Duffy's not getting on the end of those. yeah and that That's the disappointment for me is that, again, I've come back to a slight abandonment of principles, um which Torup has talked about in the presser today. and you know cu I'm glad that he did, and I'm glad that he was quizzed on it.
Jon: But I think we need to see a real footballing display on Saturday um to get get people back on side with what he's doing. Because it it was the first time in a while where I was like, actually, there's there quite a few people that that are disgruntled that wouldn't necessarily be be so after. you But the the manner of the defeat was so poor.
ACN : Having said that, I actually thought the atmosphere for how bad the football was, I actually thought the atmosphere was pretty positive. So I was in the Barkley and the and ah drum and those that went with the drum was was relatively consistent.
ACN : And I've heard Cara Road a lot quieter and a lot more disgruntled than that when we when we've been 1 -0 up with Dean Smith or 2 -1 up with David Wagner, right?
Jon: Mm hmm.
Jon: Yeah, yeah.
ACN : like
Jon: Hmm.
ACN : yeah and and I was talking about this on the way home and and from the game. the ah that's weve we've to we yeah We started out about fan engagement and about um creating atmosphere at the club. That was the whole point of an on -come knowledge years ago.
ACN : and um we've We've always talked about what comes first, the performance or the all the all the noise. yeah know Do we have to lift them? Do they have to lift us? I thought Tuesday was actually a perfect example of the hangover. Well, that's a negative connotation. Like the late the the sort of the the compound effect of, well, actually we have recently at Carrow seen some really good football. We've seen a plan. We've seen logic. We've seen five goals against ones the other day. I mean, we've seen we've seen the good bits. We've seen late comeback. We've seen late comebacks regularly.
ACN : you know late equalizer late winners go Coventry QPR you know we've seen that good stuff and as a result you're now giving us our absolute you know dog dog's mess of a performance but we are going to keep banging our drum and we are going to keep getting on the edge of our seat when we go forward and and hope for the best that actually there is going to be a goal out of nothing because actually you have earned that in the previous performances to your point on we now need good we now need a footballing performance at heart I think probably more important as we've always said from an from a performance point of view it has to come at home to affect the home atmosphere but I think youre right like the point is they're all like okay we stayed with you and I thought Hoff was very good with with with Chris Gorham when asked the question that it was you know there's disgruntledment at the final we saw like it was a short it was a short um
Jon: yeah yeah yeah
ACN : It was a short boo, and most of it was at the ref, which we'll come onto in a second. and But the there was a boo, and I thought Hoff handled that brilliantly, which was that, yeah, it wasn't good enough, and they want us to they want us to win, and and they're completely within their rights to do it.
Jon: Yeah, yeah.
ACN : i I'm incredibly fond of him. I think... He is he's a great fit for who we want to be, where we want to be.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Napa has made some fantastic signings. We are going to have to take, you know, like Schwartau, very, very poor on Tuesday, but overall has looked fantastic.
ACN : Mahovo, very poor on Tuesday. Overall looks like an incredible sign that if we spent a million
Jon: Yeah, I didn't agree with that. I thought Mahova was all right on Tuesday night. I thought, you know, I think he, I thought he was okay.
ACN : No, he was poor Tuesday. ah that yeah you it's hard to find some It's hard to find someone who wasn't. And also, i'm i is it but if you compare Mahovo is was has ah is off the back of one of the, I mean, dare we so dare we say it from comparison, but almost Max Ehren's levels of coming in the team and you just assume like behaving like a senior pro who's always been there.
Jon: Kellan was great. Kellan Fisher was great.
Jon: Yeah, yeah, he looks, he looks like an adult as well. That's straight away. Like, you know, like it.
ACN : Exactly. He's, he's the he's the last, I mean, that's the last fullback that's come in the team at that sort of age and just, and you've just gone, Oh, holy moly.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Like he is, he's done. He's ready. Like, where's he, why is he blocking play?
Jon: Hmm.
ACN : But that's my thing on, um, Dura Sec, you're our sec. However, we're going to get settled on saying his name. You hear it differently in different places. Um, that was the thing that I took out of the game.
Jon: Well, I pink and boys went with your ass. They're coming.
ACN : Well, they may well do. and But he he he looks the business. So I loved the fact that he did in within 45, 50 seconds, he took on and beat a man, which Dobbin, who I think, again, has had a very positive start to his Norwich career, um and looks like he's got a bit more of a foot pulling out to come oriented brain than O 'Neal.
ACN : um which is an incredibly polite way of putting it, um but you know what I mean.
Jon: Yes, I do.
ACN : he ah He did what Dobbin had failed to do all night. All night, Dobbin had been thinking about going outside and then bottling it and cutting him. And I know that's mostly his way anyway. Durocek immediately held up pause, pause, pause, then dived to the byline and cut a ball back, which a which someone should have been on the end of, because it was obvious where the ball was going to go, right?
ACN : No one was gambling. Tzaj would have scored that if he was on the pitch. i And i so that that was the positive for me, that it's yet another signing that, okay, it's a tiny sample sign of size, but it's another signing of NAPA. It's another, you know, Mahovo is another young person that Hoff is thrown on there, and you've just gone,
ACN : these two lads, Nappa and Hoff, they know a player. like They know a player. They know it when a young guy is is worth trusting. And that's just incredibly exciting for us as football fans. like over the cup like We've said it before, and ah to be fair, I think it's one of the only things we've been consistent on.
ACN : for an on -come knowledge is if if if they're either one of our own or their youth even if they're youth that we sort of borrowed and nicked off loot and or they've borrowed their youth that we've nicked off you know some from further climbs young players we will give the time of day to and we would rather just fall short trying to play the right way and doing it with younger players i And that feels like exactly where we're at right now. We're trying to play a brand of football that you really do want to watch. Sometimes it's too slow because of kind cause of confidence and because of the way the other team is set up, because they are allowed to try and stop us playing. That is part of the game. And and and not having the right people available, like not having Kelly, not having Nunes first half.
ACN : you know, sometimes that's going to happen. And other times we're going to score five and we're going to play some fantastic stuff. And there have been times this season under half where we have looked like we're going to score every time we go forward. And the other opposing coach has not had an answer to it. And I can't help but feel like next year when Swartow's a bit older, Cernach is a bit more comfortable. I can't help but feel that next year we're going to be seeing more of those performances than not.
Jon: Yeah, I mean, I would absolutely echo most of that. And I think, you know, like it's yeah yeah, I mean, there's there's no dressing up, um you know, and I think we've both been scathing enough that we we can probably kind of start to move past that now.
ACN : But Tuesday was shit.
Jon: um i would I would just temper the Urasek praise a little bit because you and I sat here after we'd just watched Amankwa Forsen's first game in a Norwich City shirt and we were effusive in our praise and he maybe hasn't lived up to um the promise of those early performances. So I hope that that player is there. I hope you know with wingers you know they can be incredibly sketchy in terms of their form.
Jon: and he was against tired legs so ah I'd like to think that he will bring those levels of performance if he's a starter but we don't know that yet and there probably was a reason why he he wasn't in and around it earlier on that you know kind of Tora knows that there will be a period of adjustment.
Jon: He wasn't a starter for Slavia Prague when when he left as far as I understand it so you know this is a lad who probably
ACN : Yeah, but they're better than us.
Jon: Yes, but I guess my point was, you know, kind of so this was just feeding into that is he'd been training on his own for three or four weeks or whatever it was. He hadn't been starting games.
Jon: He probably wasn't Matt Sharp, um you know, and and actually maybe we are going to be looking at 15, 20 minute cameos.
ACN : Yes, fair enough.
Jon: If he looks good in those, you know, you kind of elongate those and and until he's ready to to start a game of championship football. But the point that you make
ACN : But pun, I don't go to football to to be logical and scientific. We know this. I go to football for those moments. And there was actually a really good piece in the local press this week about about moments, not trophies.
Jon: ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
ACN : And it was actually illustrated, funnily enough, by Forsen's kind of heroics. and you know That's that gets me to that gets me to care road again, but we lost one nil But I think I want to see him again and I want to see Fisher again And I want to see my hobo again see how he develops and I want to see if ah right one more one more thing We do need to cover sorry before we move on from Tuesday, but it's like
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Can we please talk about Angus Gunn and the standing with his foot on the ball? Doesn't matter if we're 0 -0, doesn't matter if we're 3 -0 down, doesn't matter if we're 2 -0 up. The standing with his foot on the ball for no discernible reason, when there is no movement and there's no there isn't any patterns of play he's waiting to emerge, he's just stood there and everyone else has stood there. Discuss.
Jon: I think he's waiting for someone to come onto him, isn't he? It's clearly a deliberate tactic to bring someone on whether I'd want him to be shifting the ball about a little bit more and and looking to maybe play a bounce pass and and you know move the press around a bit before you try and play through it. ah den I don't know, but there's clearly a reason why he he does it. More of concern to me is, because because actually I think there's been but Angus Gunn has not, I think it's good that you've brought up Gunny. He has not been the goalkeeper this season that but we've perhaps become accustomed to. And that's probably the reason why, you know given his wages as well, that it feels like we're not going to offer him a new deal. And and this is you know the this is his Norwich swan song. um But I was kind of getting to a point we with Angus whereby
Jon: I thought we've been we've been so incredibly lucky with a lot of fantastic goalkeepers at this football club that our our bar is quite high, right? You know, kind of like, forget about the Theocletus and, you know, kind of Simon Tracy's of the world.
Jon: Actually, we've we've been lucky. We've had great goalkeepers at Norwich. So our standards are there. And I just, and George Long was so pony um as well that, you know,
ACN : He is awful.
Jon: Yeah. um But I kind of got to a point where I was like, I think everyone's really down on Angus and I think we might really miss him when he's gone because he is a really capable operator at this level.
Jon: And regardless of whether he's been at like, you know, 78 % this season, there's some rumors that he's had some personal issues, you know, and maybe, ah you know, ah ah a move will, will absolutely, you know, kind of suit him down to the ground now.
Jon: I think, I think we might miss him. But, but, but, but.
ACN : Are people down on his shot stopping, though?
Jon: Well, ah ah for me I haven't seen the goal back on Tuesday, but it felt like it went straight through. So I'm i'm not sure.
ACN : Yeah, no, that wasn't great.
Jon: like ah
ACN : that was I was right behind it.
Jon: what
ACN : That wasn't great. But i I don't, I personally, I was not in any way, I'm not in any way down on him as a guy.
ACN : At this level, he is he would get into, I mean, again, I watched championship football a lot, couldn't tell you the names of a lot of the goalkeepers off the top of my head. I don't watch a lot of championship football and think, holy moly, I wish that goalkeeper played for us, for example.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Like he is a really, really, really strong top 10 at least championship goalkeeper. And I'd imagine if he was available,
Jon: Oh, I'd say he's higher than that. Yeah.
ACN : Well, I'm just being as conservative as possible. I'm trying not to um'm trying to not do that thing that most championship, and to be fair, league one and two fans do, massively over -hype the bias you've got towards you.
Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jon: Yeah, sure.
ACN : Ah, he's the best midfielder in the league. So how many midfielders in the league do you watch regularly?
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : But like, you know, he is, he's a really, really, we've seen a lot of and second flight football. So we have seen a lot of goalkeepers. And I don't think he's miles below, ruddy miles below. And, you know, some of the really good operators we've had at this level, the distribution thing, that's, that's the only thing I wanted to pull up that when it's, when it's, when it's orderly piecing the crowd off, what are you doing?
Jon: And I think this season it's got worse.
ACN : Who is, who is, to your point about playing a bounce pass or maybe rolling it to the left and then sliding to the right a little bit and to kind of move things around, which might, which we which might open up, it might open up and someone to then make a run.
Jon: Chacha slide after that.
ACN : It doesn't help that then when he does finally hit it long, it tends to be toilet the passes that he's making as well.
Jon: Yeah, yeah, I mean his direct balls and his his clipped balls have been really poor.
ACN : um Like Duffy, like Duffy keeps giving the ball away. Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : and so but i don't i don't I would be particularly fearful of what comes. like We've seen what we might have. like McGovern, bless him. Apparently a nice lad by all accounts. He was nice to us. that Well, the one time I met him, he was nice to me. But i mean like we've seen what McGovern looks like. We've seen what job being holy mo George, moly, George.
ACN : Again, I met him on um on Saturday. He is a very handsome young man, incredibly polite, really friendly. I don't want him to be our first choice goalkeeper.
ACN : I want him to have a very happy career.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : and i'm want I'm happy for him to be number two. He's great in the Carabao Cup and he's a lot better in the goal than lots and lots of humans are. I don't think he's as good as Angus Gunn. I don't think he is a goalkeeper that would be likely to win promotion via the playoffs or any other team in a second.
ACN : I just don't think he's quite there at the moment.
Jon: Yeah, yeah.
ACN : So wi we then have an absolute lottery of who, like, do you promote one of the young lads? Like, we've got, you know, we've got a couple of great academy products that are out on loan, et cetera. Like, it feels like a bit of a risk to try and promote one of them, but you can't go into a season expecting George Long to be your number one. You can't.
Jon: it It was interesting that the, to the goalkeeper coach, I forget his name, Tony Roberts, something like that, um gave an interview recently.
ACN : He looks like a Tony.
Jon: Yeah, yeah, ah yeah let's just call him Tony for the you know for the purposes of this exercise. And Tony said um he saw Vincente Reyes potentially look you know being as a starting option down the line.
Jon: I can't think, I cannot think that the club are you know, have that in their plans next season, you know, that that long and rare to the two that it feels like they'll go into the market.
Jon: I've heard the pink and boys make noises that they would probably they'd look to go domestically into the market as well. That means we're going to have to probably pay a fee and then and then it's just, you know, kind of all.
Jon: Do you think you're going to do better than Angus come?
ACN : He's 21. He's 21, Reyes.
Jon: Yeah, but I mean, he's played League One football.
ACN : He's not unheard of, is it?
Jon: It's not unheard of, but he hasn't absolutely ripped it up.
ACN : Yeah, but if, like, they say...
Jon: And, you know, like, I dunno, it would surprise me. it It feels like he's, he's a fair way away from, you know, as you say, being a ah top six, but but all right.
ACN : Oh, he's not. He's 20. No, he's 21.
Jon: Well, you know, 12 months
ACN : It was It was 19th November 2003. So he's he's just turned 21, right? Yeah, he's just turned 21. Like, but the thing is, I get, it's another example where he will get more, he will get more rope than if we, than a George Long.
ACN : George Long, you know, he joined us in, and because he's grown up,
Jon: Yeah, maybe. I don't know if you do as a goalkeeper. ah don't i don't I'm not so sure. And and actually, if if he struggles, if he he does look cool, if he but he struggles from playing, it if he if he struggled playing out from the back.
ACN : Reyes looks cool.
Jon: And I think that's it, right? Like, you know, if we if we come to it, I think we're probably going to have a goalkeeper who isn't as good a shot stopper as Angus Gunn. Isn't, you know, as well rounded a goalkeeper as Angus Gunn is.
Jon: But what we need, I think, it is is way more important for where Norwich City ah have pivoted towards this season is someone who's really, really good with his feet. And and and that's what I would like to see.
ACN : Should we just put newness in goal for bounce?
Jon: I mean, ah probably someone a little taller would be nice.
ACN : He'd be so good at just... ah can Can you imagine him just pinging though? It'd be amazing. or yeah Well no, goalkeepers do a lot pointing.
Jon: Oh.
ACN : Kenny. There's loads of pointing in goalkeeping.
Jon: and
Jon: ah Look, I know you wish to prolong Kenny McLean's Norwich City career for as long as possible, but you know like it was um
ACN : ah I tell you what, the the lads on Tuesday that replaced him made him look like fucking Zidane. Like he he was, he was a miss on Tuesday.
Jon: It was, I think that you made that point in the group chat and and I, um for me, it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't in the absence of Kenny.
ACN : Cause it's accurate.
Jon: It was the absence of a Hindi midfield. Slimani was awful, but probably the worst game I've seen him have.
ACN : Yeah, he was.
Jon: Right.
ACN : Yeah. I like him though. He's another one who I think he's a good, he's a good champion fielder.
Jon: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, this is just a collectively, you know, bad performance. But Jacob Wright came in, everyone was quite excited about, you know, seeing him.
ACN : Everyone had an off night.
Jon: And I thought, you know, there was a couple of really promising passes that he played early on in the game and I said, okay, he looks okay. But Technically, he looks like a you know really good footballer.
Jon: He wasn't occupying the same positions and picking up. you know He wasn't making himself available for passes or picking it up off the defence anywhere near as much as a Nunez or a McLean would do.
ACN : No.
Jon: and And I think that was the problem is we were struggling to connect the dots. And if you haven't got a function in midfield, then then the whole system falls apart.
ACN : Can I tell you something that I worry about?
Jon: and And that's where we were out on Tuesday night.
ACN : Something I worry about that people will laugh at me for because I know I'm a Homer and a Stan for Kenny. You talk about being worried about the drop -off from Angus.
ACN : I worry about the post -Kenny era. I worry that
Jon: That.
ACN : Listen, hear me out.
Jon: Mate, crack on.
ACN : Hear me out.
ACN : I i i worry, I worry that he is the going to be the next teddy.
Jon: Oh fuck off.
ACN : That it takes us years to replace him.
Jon: Oh mate.
ACN : Because Nunez can't do it without him. Nunez is nowhere near as good.
Jon: Nunez will be gone in the summer, I think. Nunez will be gone in the summer.
ACN : Well, quite possibly.
Jon: And and I think Nunez is is matt is nuia can do it, I think, in terms of the the template.
ACN : quite possibly but when ah he
ACN : he was poor but he had He was poor, but his leg was hanging off. So, fair enough.
Jon: Yeah, so that's fair.
ACN : He was poor last night, but his leg was hanging off.
Jon: But I think he fits the template. I think Nunez fits the Torup template way better than Kenny does, because Nunez is really comfortable in tight pockets of space.
ACN : But do you see my point, though? Do you see my point, though? Do you see my point, though, that if we lose Nunez and Kenny gets older and doesn't isn't as able to get either perform at the same level or moves on,
Jon: then then that's an issue that we need to address. But but but but but but wait I think Wright looks like he's that kind of player, but Wright was thrust into a situation where, well, we've got an op we've got an option to buy.
ACN : it like we but It's so hard to get players who can genuinely spray the ball around like that. But he's not ours. But he's not ours. He's a lone player.
Jon: We've got an option to buy him in the summer. So if if he looks really good between now and you know in mid -May, we can have him for five million quid.
ACN : Hmm.
Jon: and And let's face it, well, we I think Norwich, I've got five million quid.
ACN : I ain't got five million quid.
Jon: you know when norwi This is the thing, with in the Atanasio era, we we are spreading around those kind of those kind of transfer fees we with some regularity. And we probably will sell a Nunez and a science in the summer.
Jon: I don't want us to sell Marcelino. I maintain, I think he is our most important player along with Sarge in terms of you know being up there this season. but Do we really want to be part of the top six conversation?
Jon: Because it would be way too early for us to so even entertain getting promoted.
ACN : do you think it Do you think medium term, do you think it would have been more positive for us, for science not to have got injured, to have kept scoring and to have been sold for massive fee?
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : that that And that's the reason we missed the playoffs rather than just slight ineptitude and being the reason we missed the playoffs, right?
Jon: 100%.
Jon: Yeah. And then let's face it, science has been nowhere near his levels.
ACN : And then we can all, and then Hof.
Jon: as he really, you know, pre -pre -suspension and then, I mean, God, that goal just.
ACN : No, no.
ACN : Well look, that's what caused the suspension. What caused the suspension was the build up of frustration. He'd been getting ratia and ratia and ratia. And like you said about begging for free kicks, there's always been a little bit of that to his game.
ACN : But now he is, he is every time he is on the deck, every time he loses possession, or even whenever possession changes hands,
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : He is ah is set on his ass appealing to the referee. And referees have enough of it.
Jon: yeah
ACN : Right, let's get on to the referee. That referee was dog's mess. That is one of the worst refereeing performances I've seen at Carroll Road.
ACN : There is no way that he was not leaning into and and penalizing Norwich players because either the crowd was getting on his back or because he thought he was clever and he could see things other people couldn't see. There was one, and there was one altercation where he could have booked Duffy apparently for those people who couldn't be bothered to go to the game watch on the stream. I was told by one of those plastic people.
ACN : and But other than that, other than that, it's just a dig at one individual. and Other than that, and ah um but we all have reasons we can't go sometimes.
Jon: All right.
ACN : Other than that, I thought he got pretty much every single decision that was even 70 -30 in our favour, he went Preston's way. He was diabolical.
Jon: All right.
ACN : And he was call it and it was just missing so much in their favor.
Jon: so
ACN : And what and the real issue for that, and the reason Hoff was so cross with it, and Karen Doyle, I heard his interview afterwards, was so cross with it, was it's not as much of an issue in a game between two teams with a similar approach to football.
ACN : But when you are playing a team whose sole raison d 'etre is stopping the game as often as possible, and that's their only hope in getting a result, the the the ref is playing into it and and just buying every dive with bar three or four particularly obvious ones, which he didn't book. He didn't penalize them and book them early enough for time wasting, which they were doing from the 15th minute. it was it was just an app it was ah It was exactly the type of refereeing performance that makes me think there are there are there is no There's no getting away from it.
ACN : There are some referees who genuinely enjoy deciding that they're gonna penalize one team more and then lean into it as a pantomime villain and they love it. Because why else would you deliberately make decisions that are so clearly 50 -50 consistently the wrong way?
ACN : It's against human nature.
Jon: Um, I, I don't, okay. So I agree with you on some points. I disagree with you on others. I don't want to go full defensive referees.
ACN : That's the podcast description.
Jon: I see. Yeah, exactly. Let's yeah that's just assist in our bio. Um, I don't want to go full Mick Dennis, no one wants to go full Mick Dennis when it comes to referees because he is so staunch in his defence of them that and you it becomes painful sometimes but you know Mick if you're listening I am kind of sorry for saying that.
Jon: um I think the referee was bad. I think he's bad both ways. I think he was really bad both ways. And I think if you look, you know, I think I agree with your point that he let them get away with time wasting. I think that's every referee in the division, you know, really would would probably have sat on that and not dealt with it. And until they did, when he he booked the goalkeeper and I can't, I can't think that he booked many more of their players for time wasting. He did, he did buy it when players were injured, you know, he,
Jon: yeah or where it were fainting that they were injured. um Can I just say though?
ACN : but also didn't didn't make them go off at the nearest thing. They were allowed to go off and walk really slowly.
Jon: No, no. Well, the substitutions as well, I thought he he should have like just pointed them up. you know there was a lot I think they made a substitution when there was maybe like a throw in or a corner and in their box and a you he let them kind of walk all the way off to the dugout rather than just exit the pitch. I don't know what the current laws are around that, by the way, and that that might now be permitted. um But yeah he wasn't hurrying the game up and I completely agree with you on that front. In terms of the decision making,
Jon: I don't know. I think he was just bad both ways. He was it just wasn't a great referee. um you know and And I would hope that he's nowhere near our games moving forward. But I don't think he was blatantly biased and you know almost can you know contriving against Norwich. I just just think he was crap. I think that's that's all there was to it.
ACN : Like I say, that that's the problem though. When a referee's performance is that bad, that it genuinely makes you think and this is an example of a referee who doesn't understand the flow of a game, that doesn't understand
Jon: Hmm.
ACN : Football, like when you've got a team who want to play football and you've got a team who want to kick it long and go down the wings and cross it in for their big glad and elbow and and kick and push and like, this has been happening since what, the 70s?
Jon: Yeah. Yes.
ACN : You've got to teams teams you want to kick people up in the air and be attritional and you've got teams you want to try and play football. And whenever those two teams come together, it's even more important that the ref maintains the pace of play.
ACN : It's even more important that the ref doesn't add to the bittiness of the game because that aids one team so much more than the other. And I think that's why probably the perception is that the decision making was more wrong than it maybe was. Because you go, oh, and there's another reason the game has stopped. You're almost more frustrated about the fact the game has stopped and the fact that they've given a a foul to the other team. You may well go, look, if this was a free -flowing game, I probably would say, yes, you have caught him from behind. That probably is a foul.
ACN : However, it's the case that, oh, yet again, they've fallen over and you've stopped it. It's because actually I'm actually pissed off about the fact that they're taking so long over everything and you're not doing anything.
Jon: Mm.
ACN : You're not clever enough not even clever. You're not aware enough of football generally to know that's the that's the that's the kind of game that they're playing and they are playing you for full referee and you're an idiot for thinking anything else other than that.
ACN : So less let's go forwards then. Let's look at Hulk. and Nunez isn't going to be available. ah Kenny looks like he's not going to be available. So presumably, what, we go lungy and right in the middle of the park, do you think?
Jon: Yeah, my Conde's isn't available either. And I'm... Lungi was so bad that I wouldn't want him anywhere near a start as it stands.
ACN : He was.
Jon: That being said, I thought he had a really good game when he actually started... I forget what the game was. The game before Derby. Watford, maybe. I thought he was... Whenever he started, I thought he had a really good 90 minutes and it was probably his his best in an orange shirt that I'd seen for some time.
Jon: um But, but, but, but, but.
ACN : Well, look, they're in the, but they're in the bottom three for a reason.
Jon: Yeah. um How I'd be tempted to drop Choitel back in there. ah you know I know you you were very down on him ah but on on you know on Tuesday.
Jon: um I'm not as down on him, you know, kind of from Tuesday night's performance. I think there is a player in him. I think
ACN : Oh, agree.
Jon: He just is so easy on the eye in terms of the way he he does things. He sees things probably a little bit quicker than than your average championship footballer. And I think if you can get the right people around him, he's going to be a wonderful asset for this football club. I mean, you know, he's 19 years old.
Jon: And ah mean he started a phenomenal amount of games and and had quite a lot of impact in in some games as well. So of all the signings, I might actually be the most excited about what Choateau might bring down the line because I ah just think with another 12 months coaching in him from from someone like Torup and Ridda's home, I think he could be an exceptional, exceptional player for us.
Jon: And might be one of those ones that we signed for two million quid and you know, we end up selling for lots of millions, lots of millions.
ACN : like a Madison.
Jon: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
ACN : Yeah, I i mean, he's he's not, he's not even, um he's not, and he's not 19 for another three and a half months.
Jon: Um.
Jon: Was he not, he's still 18. Okay. So that's, that's ridiculous.
ACN : No, he's May. he's the It's the end end of the season. He turns 19.
Jon: Oh, I think someone else had said that, yeah.
ACN : Yeah, and and he's played 27 games for us already. um And yeah it's already been said by the coaching team, so it's not even um conjecture or hypothesizing whether they did not expect him to play approaching 30 games.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : you know that That wasn't the plan.
Jon: Yeah,
ACN : and And so he's better than they thought he was going to be. And we've had shit injury luck than we thought we were going to have. And it's a combination of those two things. um Now I like as I said when I said they before on Tuesday and same as my over I don't think they were good on Tuesday, but I but they have the Forson you said, you know, we got don't get too excited about your set because we got you know for some we were very excited about I still think forces an absolute player at this level, but I do think that he needs a
Jon: He could be, yeah.
ACN : No, i know i've i've seen I've seen enough in in flashes to show that if you could, a bit like when you have players like, um ah who's who's your boy who went on loan to Birmingham, really fast left winger, who Stuart Weber said was stupid.
ACN : and Polish lad.
Jon: Oh, Poetta. He's now, Poetta, he's now Oxford, yeah.
ACN : but ha pua yeah
ACN : Yeah, so he's an example of where you can see his physical attributes, but very rarely did he leave a mark on a game to make you think, no, no, no, as a player there, we just have to find a way of unlocking it.
ACN : I think, I think Forsen has on three or four occasions, okay, most of them were at the start of the season.
Jon: Hmm.
ACN : And yes, there was that one brilliant cameo. He he has got such technical ability. He is like a, like, a reef of, a sheaf of grass in the wind. Like he is, like he is so thin. He needs to bulk up over the summer and maybe, you know, the extra strength and conditioning of a year in, in, in championship football will bring him back stronger next year. Again, really young, right? International quality player. He's a real player. Short, fantastic signing. Mark Conders, who we just mentioned briefly.
ACN : like the fact that we we miss so much a player who was walking around on the street like training you know training in the park or whatever it's unreal how how beneficial he's been to this football club um and i'm really i mean i'm already looking forward to seeing him in orchard again and he's such a good player um you know the napper and hoff know how to find a player and they know how to find a young player and they don't care how old they are throwing them in and getting them playing
Jon: Mm.
ACN : which sort of makes me think maybe, you know, going back to our goalkeeper thing, maybe it is, right? Maybe they go, we're going to accept a year and a half of bumpy performance because we think he's got it in him if we trust him and we keep playing him even when he throws it in his own goal. We trust him that he's going to become, you know, an international level goalkeeper. So we're going to have ah a year of roughness because this is a draft and developed style.
ACN : you know, team, this is a bring him in young and build him up and sell him. And we're going to do that model, but we're going to really lean into it. And if we're going to keep on earth in people like Schwartzauer and that are likely to go on for big money going ahead, then fair enough.
ACN : What's your, what's your mid -season sort of, um, opinion of, of Siena? Cause obviously we have seen a lot of him.
Jon: yes and again you know i think he's i think he's someone that a bit like schwa tao and you know and toro said this as well hasn't he like he's he's played more games than we expected he we wanted him to kind of be playing to um you know bench for one and you know and so on and so on and
ACN : What, where are you now on him?
Jon: I really like the raw material that is there. And it's clear that, you know, we've, we've signed a player with, with massive potential and one that, you know, he's eight and a half million quid.
Jon: Um, historically Norwich don't do well signing strikers for eight and a half million quid, you know, if Ricky Van Walspinkle or Stephen Naismith tells you anything, but let's put that to one side.
ACN : Night.
Jon: Um, yeah, it looks like. He could be a diamond in the rough, and he needs 18 months, two years at this level, a bit like Sarge had. you know And look, the the similarities to Sarge, apart from Bundesliga pedigree, are massive. you know a like A lad who's been played out, he probably thinks he's a nine, being played out on the right, then being given a little bit of a go at a nine, does OK, gets a couple of goals, but then maybe goes off the boil. like you know This observation has been made before, but
Jon: I think there is someone there that but can do it and can do it at this level. Does he put himself about enough? Does he anticipate where the ball's going enough? Absolutely not. Will that come with experience like you've got to hope so? and We hoped that for Adam Ida and then you know he didn't get the run of games that perhaps he needed to to develop at this level.
Jon: but Cernach is getting the game time. it's just it's now It's up to him, isn't it? It's it's whether he can he can take on what he needs to in terms of the information that the coaches are giving them, that he can continue with his development.
Jon: It feels like he needs a goal again pretty soon. And you know and and then, you know, ah because he he looks short on confidence as well.
ACN : Yeah.
Jon: um you know And we kind of, as well with with science being out, we've kind of had to to flog him a little bit. You know, he's been, you know, he's again, he's played more than they anticipated, like I said previously.
Jon: But no, I think he'll come good. I think I'm pretty confident with him.
ACN : OK, well, it's overwhelming. It's overwhelmingly positive in terms of what we've done in um yeah know the previous transfer window and so far so good in terms of what we've seen in the brief glimpses of this yeah know most recent transfer window.
Jon: Hmm.
ACN : um And in terms of a season of transition, which we all knew it was going to be, and I think we have had way more thrills than spills. ah We've scored more goals at home than we thought we would, ah for sure. And we are way more in touch with the top six than I thought we would be um in terms of being, you know, we were in it on Tuesday at times before, you know, other results went against us and, and you know, we we couldn't manage to do anything about it.
ACN : So, you know, or in the last couple of games at least. So, you know, we are within a couple of results of the playoffs and whilst we remain within a couple of results of the playoffs, Hoff has done what he, the best he possibly can with, let's have it right, and an insane combination of injuries and suspensions, and way more to deal with than, you know, you would like in your first season because they're not
Jon: and spats as well.
ACN : well yeah this is it so it's not just um you know there's been off the field stuff there's been uh injuries there's been suspensions and also two key players and key senior players in terms of the off and on the field stuff so you know he has had a lot to deal with and and i love the way he conducts himself personally i actually And I actually think that um I'd like him to be a bit more animated on game day. I like him to be a bit more animated on the side of the pitch. he Doesn't seem to be, doesn't really ride the highs and lows as much as I want a football manager to. However, I do like his answers and maybe, you know, you can't have it both ways. You can't have someone who runs hot and cold and then gives a really erudite, you know, well -spoken, you know, logical, you know, interview afterwards.
ACN : and yeah know because otherwise they they probably do end up running and raving and and saying nonsense. and um So it's massively overwhelmingly positive for for as far as I'm concerned. and Let's move to some some guarantees then for Hull. It's the next game. It's coming up on Saturday. um I would like a guaranteed score line against a third from bottom Hull and a guaranteed score for Norwich City, please.
Jon: I don't want to be negative. I think we might draw. um Okay, so I think we're going to draw. I think we're going to draw 1 -1. I think Shane Duffy is going to score off his arse. Butts. And here's the butts.
Jon: I think we will put in an exceptionally good footballing performance and create lots of situations. Maybe not capitalize on them but it'll get everyone kind of in a good mood again because it's like actually we can we can see that they've learned and they've adapted and this is where we're going again. So that'll be me. One more.
ACN : Okay. Three nil Norwich Sintz brace in the first nine minutes, a goal on three minutes, a goal on nine minutes. Um, and then it's a pedestrian performance for the rest of the time, keeping the ball easily. Every time they try and push us too much, we hit them on the counter ah attack. And that's how we get our third goal, which is anti -sonats on the 67th minute.
Jon: Oh, I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.
ACN : nice, wouldn't it? couple A couple of, a couple of sciences to get him to chill the F out when it comes to and asking for fouls every three minutes.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Anti Cernets to top up his confidence and clearly he's very popular in the squad as well. So that'd be nicely celebrated. And it means that the, the, the, the, the boys, the girls, the days, the thems that make the the trip up to East riding.
ACN : Is that, is it aset still called that, you know, where the whole is?
Jon: No idea, mate.
ACN : yeah east yorkshire east riding of yorkshire hang on i'm gonna have to google it now and i think it's i think it's called the east riding of yorkshire i mean i can't have imagine made that up that is too bonk yes it's a ceremonial county well i don't care it's right at the end people no one's listening still here yeah it is in the east riding yorkshire um so uh anyway that those that make the long journey up there
Jon: this is great content
ACN : a third away goal at 67 you've then got 24 minutes of just singing through the whole song catalog you know all no all jeopardy's gone and you've just got 20 minutes of just bouncing up and down and and singing all the way through the in fact even though it's febri i'd probably go you know five huckabees you know just go through you can literally go through them all let's go through let's let's go score three goals against the scum let's just go through the whole catalog
Jon: um I like it.
ACN : Which can happen if you're through the lump.
Jon: Let's do that.
ACN : If you're through the lump, you can do it.
Jon: Yeah.
ACN : Right, it's lovely to see you, lovely to speak to you. and If you are making that trip to the east riding or you know nearby, um do ah go safely now.
Jon: YouTuber.
ACN : and And of course, we'll be back with you at some and period of time. Who knows how long it'll be. We're we're not particularly reliable. Mind how you go.
