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"A Different Mode" ACN Pod 133
827 Plays4 months ago
Connor, Punt & Tom look back at a summer of change (albeit not as much as we thought) and preview the new season - giving guarantees for Oxford (a). "If you hurry through long days, you will hurry through short years".
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Transcript
Introduction to the Norwich City Season Guide
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich Podcast, the hastily arranged, handy, helpful guide to the Norwich City 2024-25 season. Has Hoff, our hero, got you feeling hyper? Or more of a humble, here we go again. Connor and John will oxygenise some opinions. Opting to agree is non-obligatory.
00:00:40
Speaker
Connor, let's get started.
Player Departures: Expectations vs Reality
00:00:42
Speaker
What's the biggest surprise of the summer for you? I think the biggest surprise of the summer for me is probably that ah it took so long for one of the key players to go. I thought it would be quicker and that there would be more of them at this stage. And that's not to say as we sit here and as you said, you know, as you've said, it's Tuesday for a Wednesday that that it could all change by the time it's out. But um yeah, the the the surprise to me is that the squad probably doesn't look more different or at least a little bit more different than it does at this moment in time. And i I don't know, there hasn't been any rumors um of more outbounds other than there was a leads link which I actually heard today laughed off by someone in terms of where that ITK fan came from. Apparently there's been some nonsense come from that that source before. and You wouldn't rule anything out though. You were saying before we pressed record, there might still just about be something that shocks you before kickoff on Saturday.
Transfer Market Dynamics and Team Composition
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, quite probably wouldn't wouldn't surprise me. And as you know, and when you do the job that I do, it takes one message in one moment and everything changes, your day changes. So I never rule it out. But yeah, there's um I think it's fair to say probably quite a few plates spinning inwards and outwards at the moment. So it wouldn't surprise me if any of those plates, I don't know, would they fall off and smash or how how would that work? At what point would they stop spinning? Do you just manually stop them? At some point, they're going to stop spinning in in both directions, I would imagine. Well, actually, I love that as an analogy. and I think we should start pick start using that. So, Pont, did they smash the sour plate when it stops spinning or did they carefully put it down on a trestle table next to some undercooked barbecue food?
Financial Fair Play and Market Challenges
00:02:16
Speaker
Well, it depends what news outlets you trust, doesn't it? If we if we trust the boys at the Pinken and the I wouldn't want a bunch of clowns. Yeah, exactly. But.
00:02:26
Speaker
but The fee that that the pink allowed to have reported in a kind of north of twenty million with some add-ons. Fairly palatable especially i think in a market that is. Fairly stagnant at the moment like that i think the days with special financial fair play. those clubs that just can't afford to chuck money at it again, and especially as there's been sanctions in the Premier League this season last season, um it's changed the game a little bit. So the fact that we can get ideally north of 20 million for Gabriel Sarra,
00:02:58
Speaker
to me seems alright business you know pretty much par for the course if you believe you know Galatasaray's end and it's you know whatever it was 15.7 million euros years over 800 years you know with 2,700 different installments then, yeah, that that doesn't sound optimal at all. um But I think usually with these things, um the absolute truth is somewhere in the middle, isn't it? And it's just what range of of that it falls at. But I'd like to think the Norwich are getting north of 20 million quid and I think that's about right. um you know So I think we've probably, yeah, just safely and nestled that on the kitchen table, that particular plate, and it's it's all fine.
00:03:39
Speaker
I think, I think to go back to you, Connor, in your analogy, whether or not they've smashed that, that particular plate probably comes down with, you know, there's two plates on two sticks. There's an outgoing plate. What I don't think it's even a singular plate. Surely there's got to be, you've got to, you've got to bring two people into a place. So one who you maybe think is your banker and one who is the backup, because that's most of the goals and assists have just left the team. Yeah, agreed. And I think the sour replacement would would be sort more certain than that. i think I think they will go permanent with that. And I think others, and and they they do want others in that in that area, ah you know it's but it's been told to me that that versatility will will be a key one. So players who maybe can play as an eight, but also could go and play as a 10. Or wingers who maybe are capable of playing inside, or even playing up front. that that That seems to be the characteristic that they're favoring in terms of those. And I would expect, we've seen Callum Doyle confirm today,
00:04:34
Speaker
I think maybe a no criticism that's too strong but maybe a nag of mine over recent years is that they probably haven't used loans well enough for a club in the position that they are in terms of finances and they could use better use of that low market in a way that i have to work on dole so you know i know bobby clark's been been mentioned from liverpool i can see a lot of a lot of. of truth in that in terms of profile. I don't know about him specifically and that link specifically, but as a profile, it would add up. So, yeah, they'll look for a few in that area, I think, because it's hard at this moment. And for my sins, I've seen every minute of pre-season. It still does look... I'm so sorry, and we appreciate your service. Thank you. It still feels like a squad that's a little bit short in some areas for me. I guess that's probably part of what we're speaking about with the Sarah plate, whether it's smashed or whether they've chosen to take it off the stick that it was spinning on, they probably needed to get it done because of their financial position, but also because it now allows them to crack on with some other bits and pieces which I think need to get spinning pretty soon.
00:05:37
Speaker
we we We often have this, don't we? this ah There's some time to go in the the window and it it feels late because we're about to play our first meaningful match for points, but actually there's still a serious amount of time left to to get business done. So and it may well be that we we can't really, and well, definitely we won't be able to um make a ruling on whether or not we've got good value until half a season's worth of whoever the replacement is turning out for City. and Punt, what about you for for a surprise during this season? Anything you thought would happen that didn't and vice versa?
Unexpected Player Retentions
00:06:11
Speaker
I think Adam Ida still being in the building is ah is a massive surprise to me. I know Con has kind of mentioned that it surprises ah ah the the depth of outgoings, but I think that was specifically in reference to bigger players you know and more influential influential players leaving um the club. It's just not great for anyone. Is it you know in terms of this protracted saga that's going on with Celtic? Look, if we wanted to knuckle down on me and we want to keep him, those conversations need to be happening at Colney and just saying, look, we're not letting you out of the building. Ashley Barnes is injured. You know, you're going to be our striker at least until January. Get your head down, you know, and get your head screwed on. um Whether those conversations have happened or whether Norwich are still entertaining bids and would deal at, you know, I don't know, whatever the figure is, six, seven million or whatever John Hartson saying this evening, I don't know. But at the same time,
00:07:04
Speaker
we' We've been very used to Norwich getting a lot of their core business done quite quickly um you know in in previous transfer windows. This doesn't seem to be the case with Ben Napper. you know He went to Deadline Day with Sidney Van Hoydon, or maybe the day before Deadline Day with Sidney Van Hoydon. Thank goodness he did. quite exactly Can you imagine how the season would have turned out if we didn't know him? I know. In a parallel universe, he probably scores the winner in the playoff final. But that's maybe a distant parallel universe. and So I think that that is the biggest surprise for me. ah Contextually, I can see that Celtic don't want to pay probably any more than than five million um because that that won't necessarily represent value at their end. But Norwich are going to play hardball because of the length of contract. But I just I just thought it would be resolved by now and we could
00:07:51
Speaker
maybe move on from it either way, but actually it's got worse, hasn't it? You know, with Eda's behavior, with fans then booing him as he comes on for a friendly, which just seems absolutely mad to me that that that happens. And then, of course, he exacerbates the situation by not clapping the fans who have just booed him, which I think, you know, natural human reaction might be that you wouldn't be totally inclined to go and do that. But more reasonable heads might have advised you that just just stand there and, and you know, look conciliatory and and it'll be ah it'll
New Management and Transitional Challenges
00:08:20
Speaker
be all right. Keep your head down, mate. So yeah, i I think his is a saga that is not necessarily at Todd Cantwell proportions as yet, but who knows, it's got legs.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, there it there's a disappointment for me that that's not wrapped up either way, either in, and you know, we've he he comes out and says, this is the place for me, let's kick on, or i'm I'm definitely going and, you know, I almost at this point would prefer a formal transfer request, which is, which is, you know, ah broadcast to everyone and you you agree that's what's happening. I think It's in a transition season where we're transitioning transitioning from one manager to another, one background staff to another. um So many changes, you know ah you know a first kind of proper full foray for a for is for sporting director, et cetera. Those transitions need to happen, I feel, as as promptly as possible. It doesn't necessarily mean that it goes the way you want. I sometimes think it's better to get bad news early, it's better to fail fast, et cetera.
00:09:22
Speaker
and and if you know that look it's going to be bare bones this season, it's going to be very, it's going to be tons and tons of youth. um I do wonder whether or not and there would have been a couple more outgoings if we were, I think that's think that might be one of the kind of stepping stones. They always feel like we need to get him out and know how much we've got for him because you know to your point Connor, if and If we know who's in the building then we can be more confident in terms of setting up Shaping. You watched every precious minute of pre-season.
00:09:54
Speaker
it's it's hard to Even the most half full people who really believe in the project and have already fallen in love with the project, even they seem to be struggling to to kind of tell a story of of clear shape or definition to our play. Would you say that that's fair? Yeah, in part, I think there's but there's been good parts as well, which have which have been lost ah a little bit and they've been good moments. um I thought, you know, the second half against, against hof well, really from from a drinks break against Hoffenheim in about the 37th minute to the end, I thought they were pretty good. Albeit, contextually, Hoffenheim changed their entire team half time.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So so you have to you have to accept that. But yeah, there's theres been there's been good bits. I accept that the game on Saturday was was was not great. and And you're right. I think I've i've been. And and there have been people who who are willing to be very patient and and and wait for. And I'm probably willing to accept as well. that There's going to be some bumps in the road, particularly early on. But I think when when you concede, not not just concede three times in in the first 35 minutes or whatever it was, but it was the manner of the goals, just how they're all individual errors. Really, one one was a set piece, which was which was really poor, but but the two errors from the full backs. Okay. One is is's just science. so I think it's a little bit more, um yeah, there's there's more mitigating factors around that. But yeah, in in general, I think
00:11:12
Speaker
You can, or I certainly feel having watched all the preseason as we begin to look definitely to the run at the start of the season. It feels to me that August is going to be pretty tough and that they're going to concede some bad goals. um And it's going to be interesting to see how much patience and willingness there is to back the project at that stage.
Building Phase: Results and Belief
00:11:32
Speaker
And I think it was interesting you know, we speak to spoke to Janice Hoff tour up after the game on on Saturday. And it was a very interesting comment around the line of we need we need results whilst we're building. And I think that's probably true, because that is the only way that you retain belief in the project. Ultimately, is is by making sure you have enough results to keep people invested in it, because it's going go to be very difficult if they lose their opening 10 games for everyone to turn around and say, yeah, but don't worry, because in three months, the sky is going to be blue and the sun is going to be shining. And, ah you know, I don't want to get into sunlit uplands, but that sort of thing.
00:12:03
Speaker
um So, yeah, I think I can understand why preseason, particularly that game on Saturday has has caused concern, but equally, I would say there's there's been some good bits in preseason. Actually, there was some good bits on Saturday because the opening 20 minutes was was really good, but it's been a little bit of a theme of that where they've started quite well and then dropped off a cliff. So, yeah. um I think we all like them to be going into the season in a bit of a different position in terms of squad, in terms of style of play, in terms of where they are generally. But, you know, as as John mapped out Ben Nappa and he's showing that with Callum Doyle, I don't think many clubs would be willing to wait a month, which Norwich have essentially from agreeing a deal to to get him in the building. But I think he he is willing to be patient and willing to
00:12:42
Speaker
move within a strategy and not be shaken from that, um even by events. So yeah, I think it's it's going to be really interesting to see how it all comes together. But but equally, I'm really intrigued by the fan reaction because I think after after Magdeburg, I was a little bit shocked by just how negative is the wrong word, but maybe how much concern there was about that particular game. Saturday, I totally got it because of the performance and I think that's natural. so Yeah, it's going to be tested and there's going to be bumps in the road and I'm not sure Norwich are where they would like to be or need to be at this moment in time. um So yeah, buckle up because I think there's going to be plenty of turbulence. Well, I mean, you mentioned conceding goals um in the early early stages and weve got new yeah we could have as many as three new defenders playing and in a back four and and aror almost and I would almost kind of hope for that to be honest based on who we've currently got available to us.
00:13:35
Speaker
um And you look at the the first two home games putting aside the Stevenage Cup game, and Blackburn and Sheffield United, you know, who's going to handle Key for More on the 24th of August at Carrow Road. and pun i I know that you, ah we haven't prodded since, and you know, since the Hoff announcement.
00:14:02
Speaker
you're You're keen to to fall in love again. You're keen for there to be a project again. I i fear for both Napa and Half, I fear for how little patience the fans are going to have. And I think they've already started to show that they're not willing to see a bit bigger picture unless there are those green shoots that you mentioned, Conor. So pun my my question to you is, and at what minute on the 17th of August when we are losing to Blackburn, when when do you think the boos start? I don't think they do. Like, come on, let's be realistic. I don't think the boos start against friendly. They were booed off in a friendly pun. Kind of. All right. I don't think there would be massively audible boos if, if, you know, kind of. Unless it was of Colchester Gunny's, you know, kind of first game in league one proportions. And then, you know, unless, unless it is that catastrophic and, you know, we have a ah competent goalkeeper, rather you know, rather and than that day, we didn't then I.
00:15:02
Speaker
I can't see it. But then you know maybe that's the internal optimist and in me that actually Norwich are doing something a little bit different. Norwich are taking a risk. And my kind of warped logic is Norwich never,
Strategic Risks and Patience in Renewal
00:15:17
Speaker
never, ever are successful when they play it safe. You know, the yeah the only time and I've referenced this sometimes and on the podcast in terms of maybe the last time that we spent big money on a player before Gabrielle Sarah. The only time we played it safe and did well, I thought, was the signing of someone like Dean Ashton, because it was like, actually, like he's just going to guarantee you goals. But
00:15:36
Speaker
This is a risk, it's an absolute risk, but yeah this is almost the Norwich way. this is This is the kind of thing that most fans were imploring the club to do during the really dour David Wagner, Dean Smith periods where actually it just felt wretched. And it's so it, I mean, without wishing to go all Keir Starmer, it feels like we need to go through a period of renewal. And look, it's not quite 14 years of Tory chaos, you know, kind of all however you want to badge it up. But
00:16:12
Speaker
Actually, the the country has been a bit broken and needs fixing. And the club felt like it's been a bit broken and needs fixing. And so I think we just we all need to understand that it's there's not going to be linear progress. It's not, you know, there needs people need to see stylistically where, you know, what we're um really kind of moving towards. But let's be frank, we haven't got the personnel to play you know, kind of quick zippy football out from the back if you've got Shane Duffy or Grant Hanley or you know, someone of that ilk at the back. So this is gonna, this is pretty gonna take three or four transfer windows to to get optimal results. This is going to take a hell of a lot of patience. um But I think what, what Norwich need to do
00:17:00
Speaker
and they probably need to do it quickly is actually people can forgive those defensive errors if there's a bit going forward and the thing that's that's kind of concerned me from preseason is there doesn't look like there's a coherent plan in terms of chance creation and this is you know Connor you'll be much more qualified to talk about this than me but actually anytime we've been successful it's almost been like a lump up to Johnny Rowan he'll get on the end of it and that's the bit that's really concerned me because actually when When Torup came in initially, he was like, well, we've done loads of work on the in possession and what we're going to do with the ball. And now we need to do a bit more about what we're going to do without the ball.
00:17:38
Speaker
I'd have expected, you know, stuff to to start to stick and and actually for our, you know, for hit for his philosophy in terms of chance creation to be a bit more, you know, kind of embedded. So I think if we can get that, if we can get a few goals, then people are willing to to kind of think about, right, well, what's around the corner and and this looks really good, but we've got to sharpen up on, you know, kind of other bits. I'm not sure. Yeah, did I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what happens come Saturday. But I think most people are willing to give it a bit of time.
00:18:12
Speaker
i think I think people will, the club and Hoff and the atmosphere for that Blackburn game could really do with ah with ah an attacking midfield or striking option signing but before but before that game. mean The Oxford game, ah the tickets were were snapped up straight away. i I was hoping that it would come down to my category and it didn't. and You know, it's very small ground, not much capacity. You would imagine that unless it is um full of 6-0 proportions, that's going to be a fair yeah that's going to be a fairly patient crowd. They go, you know, because it is the people who went 10 times or more last year, they took the whole lot of the tickets and they will therefore, um you would imagine, be a bit more seasoned in terms of this this might this might not might might not go well immediately, let's be patient with the the lads, maybe they've run up and down a bit.
00:19:06
Speaker
Stevenage likewise, you get people sitting in random seats, it's not going to be that many people go, et cetera. If we got a win against Oxford, that would bump the numbers up a bit. and so So really the the the first kind of litmus test of patience and Hof's reaction from the the fans is going to be that Blackburn game because there'll be far more people who are, you know you know, that's where you're going to see all the season ticket holders in the stands where they're going to be for the rest of the season. And and you know that that's going to be the the first kind of his his first ah understanding of the Karate atmosphere.
00:19:39
Speaker
I just feel, don't you Connor, that going into that game, if if we're unveiling someone or someone's making their debut or there's someone, even the frisson of someone on the bench, like I remember being at Fulham away in the cup and science being on the bench for the first time and last season, and because he got injured in the preseason and and so we had to wait to see him. Even though we weren't exactly putting up any trees in the league and we were losing in the game, that that gave you something to be positive about and and it just go, oh, well, hang on. No, this might be a world beat on the bench. We haven't seen him yet. and And I just feel like the club could really do with that because yes, Cordoba, we needed someone with that profile. Doyle, we needed someone with that profile. Chisenny.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, I've ah you've've got on a phonetic sheet yet. I've been trying to practice it because it should be easier to say it's croissant. So those lads, we need all of them. Not many people get defenders on the back of their shirt. you know that that's not That isn't going to inspire things. So I just hope that your that your' and you're tweeting hashtag no circus next week about ah attacking incoming. Any chance? Yeah, they they want a winger. They want a number 10. I think, as I said, it will be probably a player who maybe can do both. It might be an eight who can go and play as a 10. It might be a wide option that can go and play as a 10, whatever. But ah they they definitely they definitely they definitely want one. It's definitely on their list. But again, it's
00:21:04
Speaker
is about priorities and I think actually if you look at the way they've attacked it left-sided centre back Ben Gibson left he was the only one they had probably was a priority and then two left backs in the door with Doyle obviously who can you can cover that that left centre back row where he'll probably play on Saturday actually um so I can understand why they've gone about it in that way and and and now as we said because of Sarah probably likely because of John Rowe as well that they're going to need at least one in that position. So yeah, I think there is that that possibility. And I think, ah you know, there's definitely some truth in in what you say, because in many ways, this is the best and and worst time in the season because we don't know anything. And so it's it's easy then to to fill that void with whatever you like, fill it with dread, you can fill it with with anxiety, you can fill it with optimism, enthusiasm, whatever. But
00:21:48
Speaker
um and and largely that is reactive to what your club is doing at at that period. So I'm sure if you polled a lot of Norwich fans on Sunday night it would would have been supremely negative. I'm sure if you polled them tonight after Callum Doyle was was unveiled it would be a lot more positive. So I think you you're definitely right and I think largely in terms of of the project that for me has been a really interesting point because and and I sort of thought we we would get here but Throughout preseason, I've sensed a growing and it will be interesting to see if this carries on to the season, but I don't want to use the word narrative because that that makes it sound more like a conspiracy than it is. But I think there is a ah view increasingly that that, you know, because there's been so much focus on youth that Grant Hanley,
Implementing New Styles: Tough Decisions
00:22:26
Speaker
Kenny McLean, Shane Duffy, these these type of senior players are are coming under a bit more scrutiny now than they would, um which I think is is is is really interesting. And it will be interesting to see if that if that goes further. But
00:22:39
Speaker
It goes to the wider point that I think, partly the patience element that you spoke about, if Norridge are four games in and it's Grant Hanley and Shane Duffy trying to play a ball out from the back, I think everyone is probably entitled to shrug their shoulders and go, well, hang on, what's what's changed here really? You've given a guy who's trying to play a certain way and you've not given him the tools to do it. So I can understand in in that circumstance, but equally, I think if you were tore up, and this is where I'd flip it to to the different angle, He is already having to fight a lot of battles. He's trying to implement the style of play. He's trying to assess a squad. He probably doesn't need those battles with senior players at this moment in time as well. It's such a massive um period fit for him personally that you don't want to go around sort of sticking two fingers up at experienced players who have a lot of kudos in in the dressing room. so
00:23:22
Speaker
um that is interesting as well. and And that will sort of tell to the patients because I think that is a battle that he's going to have to, that he's going to come at some point. He's going to make a, have to make a decision, I think at some stage about whether um one of those experienced lads drops out. But yeah, to to link back to your your your question that I think there will be attacking players arrive. But it again, equal, I think Norwich are in a different mode now. I think they are willing to be patient. They are willing to, if it needs to go to deadline day it or go to deadline day, but only on the players that they've identified, it won't be a reactive move on a deadline day to get someone who suddenly become available for a fee that's, that's ridiculous. and And, you know, I was, i was you know.
00:23:58
Speaker
heard Ben Nappa speak and I think the way that they're working at the moment, there's good players, there's there's good players who cost too much money and there's good players who are available on good money and they want probably the third option of those and that means that you have to be you have to wait sometimes and like Doyle where someone may be from Premier League club and there's always that fear when a deal isn't done, someone comes and slaps 15 million pounds on on the table, someone well everything changes but there might be a moment where that doesn't happen in the club. Go, do you know what? You can have him. You can take him for a season. And and that's where probably that patience pays off. And it won't always pay off. There'll be moments where they're patient and they lose a player because of it. But I think that is probably better than and being reactive to things. So yeah, we'll definitely see attacking players arrive, the quantity of which will probably depend on those that go. um
00:24:41
Speaker
And if we're looking at John row and maybe some others, then yeah, they're they're definitely going to need some options. So, um, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll see, but there's still what three weeks of the winter, three weeks of the window left. It'd be nice to get some sleep at some point. Dear me. The, um, just interested on, on that point you mentioned, do you think Doyle might go straight in and start left center back on Saturday? Yeah, but ah main mainly because of Cordoba's fitness. And i I don't really see it. It's like, sorry, I can't remember who tweeted it, but someone tweeted about Jakob Surinson playing that. It's a bit like when managers used to put Wes Houlihan on the left. It feels like it should work and everything about it, you know, you can play and it feels like you can defend, but you put him in there, it just doesn't quite work for whatever reason.
00:25:24
Speaker
um ah So yeah, I think they'll want because of the way that he tries to build up and the left back inverts that left side centre back basically becomes the middle of a free and so their ball progression is so important and that's that's why they've signed Doyle because of his ability on the ball but his ability to do that in a left back role but if Cordova is not at a place where he can start then yeah I think you'd have to put Doyle in because just for the style of play and the ball progression and you know this links a little bit to to what John was saying earlier about chance creation I think that is partially come because one of the major frustrations for them and and and probably for everyone watching pre-season is the fact that you know Cordova's played what 15 minutes they haven't had Callum Doyle they haven't had those sort of ball progresses in those deeper areas that should hopefully connect their their play a little bit better so I think for the style of play and for
00:26:09
Speaker
ah the balance of the team you'd want a natural left footer there and if Cordova's not fit and Doyle can play then and you know he's been playing all preseason at Manchester City it's a role that he has played before other clubs I think you could you could chuck him in there without any real danger if I'm honest. He's also played plenty of football you know he it's not like it's the it's not his first his first trip out on loan or what have you um so he's played plenty of men's football and and Oxford will be full of vim and vigour and full of momentum from from promotion, but you know it's we're not a away at the Blades. you know we're not you know He's not going up to to visit you know one of the the bigger teams in the division, so so you would hope that he would would have the confidence from his last appearances being against, what is it, AC Milan and Chelsea, he probably should fancy himself against Oxford.
00:26:58
Speaker
So what's your prediction then, and Punt, for the for the midfield? Who do you think will start on Saturday?
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's an excellent question. Thank you. And I'm really struggling with it because I think Liam Gibb starting on Saturday. I just don't think it worked and I don't think he's dynamic enough or technically adept enough at this stage two to be a starter for Norwich City Football Club. Now, I'd love him to prove me wrong. I'd love him to to come to the fore and really absolutely smash it this season. But I don't know, like he kind of suffers from not really having a position lockdown. He suffers maybe from
00:27:45
Speaker
just not quite being, you know, kind of actually dynamic enough, I think, to to do it. And that that is a criticism that can be levelled at other midfielders at the club as well. You know, Connor mentioned Jakob Sooneson and, you know, he's kind of been primarily deployed in defensive roles. But again, if we looked at him in in the centre of the park, you know is he again Is he going to be a starter? We don't seem to have those. They're the only man that I think is you know absolutely 100% nailed on, guaranteed, is Marcelino Nunez. I love the guy and I really hope that he comes to the fore and he starts to fill parts of what Gabrielle Sarah brought to the to the team. um but Beyond that, I'm not sure. Connor, I know you've seen all of pre-season.
00:28:30
Speaker
Torrup has predominantly deployed a 433, is that about right? And there hasn't really been a sitter. Kenny, like the the gate the the minutes that I've seen, Kenny McLean's been like almost out of muscle memory, dropping back as you know as part of a third centre back. Now, is that direction from Torrop or is it just that Kenny's been so drilled and used to it from last season that that you know he goes and does that and he's he's almost performing those quarterback duties again? I don't want him there. I think he he needs to be, he's very good at pointing, isn't he? you know So he needs to be pointing and in the centre of the park and marshalling people.
00:29:06
Speaker
um So I think, yeah, to answer your question, Thomas, um Kenny and Marcelino, but beyond that, I don't know. And I think we really need additions quite quickly in that area of the park.
00:29:20
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's it's got to be it's got to be Kenny, it's it's got to be Marcelino, because it seems to not to not start those two in your first competitive game almost seems like you're sending a message or you're almost trying to make a point, and because they're they're clearly the most capable of what we've got left after Saba in the middle of the park. and then if it's the 4-3-3 then yeah what what do you think, how does he lead the linecon? I mean it's Rowan Sainz as the two the two wide players, Sarge up top.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. But again, going back to the creativity point. It's going to be decided it in the middle, isn't it? is you can't you can't we don't We don't have the personnel to play 4-3-3 in that way. No, it it wouldn't. but And again, he trialled this at the at the early pre-season, but kind of moved moved away from it a little bit. and And there was, again, some flashes of good signs, but but also some stuff that that wasn't particularly great. but Borja Sainz in in the middle I think is an interesting point because I think if you if you have Nunez and and McLean and I think you probably have license with the third one to go and play a little bit higher and I think the way that that particularly the left side operates because of what I've spoken about predominantly how they want to tuck a left back in and then you have a wider option as your winger and then that third central midfielder could almost go and push and be a 10 and go and support Josh Sargent in a sense and
00:30:41
Speaker
those sort of spaces I think is where Borja Sainz drifts into naturally anyway. He wants to think about how many times he scored that goal where he cut inside on his right and looked to bend it. So I think in possession of it. I'd love to see him as a 10 Connor. I mean not necessarily in the way that we have played as a formation previously but in the way that Emi used to be. Taking up the spaces between defence and midfield and then taking up the spaces between midfield and attack. ah i I would love to see him float up and down in middle middle of the pitch, but to to um to Punt's point a though, he wasn't kind about the pointing um to to my dear Kenny. He is very good at pointing though, um amongst other things he's wonderful at.
00:31:21
Speaker
ah They're just going to get in each other's way. it's so it's i would love yeah Sorry to butt in, but i mean i I would really love to see him have a run in the team as you are a 10, you play just off-sarge and make things happen and then see what room that gives yourself where. Or you have him as the forward wide player of the three and then to your point you have two in the middle and you have to have Gibbs going backwards and forwards and he almost becomes a bit of a 10. Yeah, like i agreed. And I think what that would do if you, if you played science in the middle would then allow you to get Kamara on the left. And I think one of the, not bug bears, but I mean, I've spoken to a few sort of Pompey people about, about Kamara and. messin So Messino in league one last season played a very similar so certainly in buildup to the way Norwich want to play with a three and then a two and then a five.
00:32:07
Speaker
um That's right, isn't it? Yeah. um And Kamara was the right-sided option in that, but they they played it the other way. So they had the the right back tuck in and the right winger was was the wide option. And and that left in 1v1 quite a lot with a full back. And so it's been a little bit odd to me that Norwich haven't tried him in that left role, which is basically the same role that he was doing at Portsmouth. Instead, he's been kind of in this right role where he's had to drift in and play in sort of inside spaces, which isn't where necessarily his strength was. So I think if you put science in that position, you could then push Kamara out, but Again, I'm with John, really, I think if you did that, you would then need some sort of resilience and structure in midfield that I'm not quite sure they have the personnel for at the moment. And it's interesting, you you look at what Torup wants to do. It's very similar to what Maresca did at Leicester last year in terms of the way they played in possession. And really crucial to that was was Harry Winx and the role that he played. And it wasn't necessarily particularly flashy. it was And he got a lot of stick for it, really. A lot of it was playing the ball sideways rather than forwards. But he was almost a a metronomic figure.
00:33:05
Speaker
Norwich don't really have a player like that in in my opinion at the moment. And again, this is where I think the midfield is is one of the more interesting points because they've got a lot of players, but probably very few players that actually feel like they profile well in a tour up team. um It feels like the the eights need to be a little bit more energetic that they've got. They haven't really got a six in probably, you know, when we think of a six, we think of the Alex 30 mile, but they haven't probably haven't got a ball playing six either. So yeah, I think that that is the bit for me that feels like they they need some more bodies in. um And that's probably what the sour money will allow them to do go out and maybe get a couple of options who probably fit that a little bit better.
Midfield Needs: The Harry Winx Role
00:33:40
Speaker
Well, to the winks point, we also don't have a jewsby Hall, you know, we because effectively you've you've to to enable a player to to be metronomic from side to side and just keep things moving and never really worry about progressing besides and ah getting ready for the switch or getting ready for the run. The number of Leicester highlights I saw, which involved jewsby Hall dropping deep, receiving the ball and then driving forward, then all of a sudden it's gone from side to side passing to getting involved the ball forward quickly. that That transition seemed to be seemed to be that the 10 seconds before so many Leicester goal highlights that I saw. and you know like say So maybe that is a science thing that he can do. um He doesn't necessarily have the range of passing. him We haven't seen him and in the right areas of the pitch maybe to see his range of passing.
00:34:28
Speaker
um So, Pun, ah in terms of in terms of Saturday, who's the who's the player that you're most looking forward to seeing how they take on, that you that you think you're likely to see? Don't pick an absolutely crazy oddball suggestion. yeah Of the players that are likely to start or have meaningful minutes, who who are you most looking forward to going in right? I want to have a look at you and actually see what we've got here. I, if you'd have asked me before pre-season, I'd have said Abu Kamara was probably the one that I was looking forward to seeing the most, purely based on the fact that, you know, it seems like the suggestions, whether he ripped it up at Pompey after a little bit of an inauspicious start, but, you know, he, he started to learn their, their,
00:35:12
Speaker
the way that they were playing. And he was always kind of used as a striker for us, wasn't he? You know, it it was almost seen as, you know, AK 47 and he was going to come through and and you know kind of be a bit of a gold machine because that's where he played as a central forward um in the the youth teams. But actually he found a niche out wide. He found a way to score goals. And it felt like he might be the successor to to John Rowe if if John Rowe was going to go out of the building. But preseason has almost felt like he's been pushed to the side and haven't been able to accommodate as many minutes for him as they'd they'd have liked. So I think I'd probably say someone like Callum Doyle purely on the basis that actually, you know, he's fresh, he's new, he's got pedigree um and he should bring something to to the team that actually, you know in terms of technical ability, we we probably didn't have as much of that, you know, in defence as we'd have wanted to last season. so That's a fucking in polite way of putting it.
00:36:07
Speaker
Well, what an understatement. We didn't quite have the ability to play beautifully out from the back last year or the year before. I think Ben Gibson and Demi Yannoulis were underrated in that regard. I would say Demi Yannoulis' ability to break lines and Ben Gibson's range of passing out from the back was a bit better than lots of people would have suggested. However, it does feel like um we may have upgraded in the left back department over the summer. so I'll give you the Gibson seems like a nice bloke. How's that? We'll agree to meet in the middle on that one. well And then we can just ah agree that Kenny is good at pointing you know and that's about it. He is brilliant at pointing and so many other things besides. I'm looking forward to seeing Kenny lagu' and canny like Can we just go back to that? I don't think Kenny McLean is brilliant at
00:36:56
Speaker
anything apart from pointing. I think he's competent at a lot of things and that's what makes me a very good player. He's the best passer in the squad. He was the best passer in the squad last year. No, not consistently. I'm not having that. Connor, you can settle the debate. it said It's 50-50, so you have to cast your vote. Who's the better one about pass at Nunez or Kenny?
00:37:21
Speaker
um i i would and It's a really difficult debate. I would i instinctively id lean towards Nunez, but again, i'm I'm with you. I think Kenny does do a lot of stuff well. Okay. Well, that's all we've got time for. And that's it. This is the final podcast. ah Right. Let's get to some, um, let's get to some predictions for the season. Then, um, Connor, just tell me where we're going to finish. That's all I want. I just want an exact position none at all between this. but I want an exact position. Where are we going to finish this season?
00:37:55
Speaker
am i allowed to provide contacts or as long as it's a specific number you can provide contact like yeah i'll give you i'll give you ah a specific number but i wanted to to say because a lot of people have have asked me this midtable is not a number corneror no i promise i'll give you a number in an actual position but a lot of people have asked me how you think how you going to finish and and by and large i have said As long as it is at no stage in the season, somewhere near the relegation zone, I don't think it matters that much because of everything that we've we've spoken about. um So I think they'll have a slow start, a really slow start. I think they will get better from January.
00:38:33
Speaker
ah or the second half of the season and I think they'll finish quite strong and I don't think it will be too dissimilar from let's say the seasons that Bristol City or Swansea had last season where theirs was due to a managerial change but I actually think Norwich's will be because of time and maybe because of of personnel. and So my sort of view on, I'm answering a different question but what is success this season? I think As long as we we end it in a position where we're saying Norwich look better now than they did at the start, I think that is probably progress to head into year two of this project.
Season Forecast: Aiming for Improvements
00:39:04
Speaker
So with that in mind, I i think they'll finish 13th. I was one off what I predicted you were going to say. I thought you were going to say 12. John, same question and context is is is welcome.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think for all of the reasons that that Connor has outlined that progress and style and patterns of play, that's what we need to see. like we we don't you know Obviously, you need results. They're a necessity for for other reasons, but we need to see progress. We need to see something that's developing because we have taken that risk. and you know Look, we've gone for someone who but we've gone for two people really that that have got absolute pedigree in ah in a different country but they don't know the rigours of the championship and I actually was you know kind of feel free to plug it here but I thought you guys you and Pat had an excellent chat with with Glen Riddertome you know in in terms of their experience and the fact that their eyes were pretty open that a 46 game season in the championship is going to be new and different and bring unique challenges that
00:40:07
Speaker
that actually they're not necessarily completely prepared for and they're gonna have to learn on the job. So I think is it's gonna be... a massive period of renewal, as I've said before, and I think what the club needs to do, and they've started it in fairness. you know Ben Nappa spoke at a fans forum that I was at, at the at the forum, run by BBC Radio Norfolk, and I thought Ben Nappa spoke incredibly well. Johannes Hautorop spoke incredibly well there, and it felt like the club were starting to get the messaging right again about right what does this season look like.
00:40:42
Speaker
And actually for anyone who hasn't listened to it, the but put down on the guy who raises concerns about Alameda was absolutely fantastic because it it just showed that we've got proper football people at the club. So I think if Ben Nappa can start to do a bit more of that, I know he's doing that a bit later this week, you know, with um the Canaries Trust and Connor, Connor, again, you may wish to plug that later on in the podcast. um Then I think positionally, it doesn't really matter, but I will be a little bit more optimistic. I think we'll start to get it right in the second half of the season. And I'm going to plump for a late charge into ninth. Ooh.
00:41:24
Speaker
and when when your late charge gets you to ninth that sort of suggests that um yeah i did build it up and it might be oh finish fifth but no well no no late late charge tonight could actually be a really positive thing because if your late charge takes you to ninth that means you'll probably it's got to early march and it's clearly not going to happen and then you start to play and the way you really really want to because you're not playing short-term is in this is the game that we really need to win you start to just go let's go on lads we're in you know thirteenth and were and and and we're eleven points adrift so let's just play and and then we end up with four wins of the last seven or something like that and we build as momentum.
00:42:03
Speaker
And I think to your point Connor, thank you obviously for answering a different question to you were asked and and they'll love more of that in the forum. The success is very much that. We we want to be progressed. You've both referenced either patterns of play or um a style of play. i The thing I miss the most about my beloved Norwich City over the last few seasons is and and knowing what I'm going to get. and I mean, obviously you never know what the result is going to be, but just knowing, oh, this is, this is fuckball, you know, and and this is, this is how we play. And this is our identity. And some people will tease us for it. Some people will be jealous of it. It will frustrate some people.
00:42:51
Speaker
We'll have snide songs sung about it by chef which united and You know there will but just knowing and being able to just see ah right He's gonna do that which means he's gonna do that He's gonna run round there and then that happens and I know that happens because we created three chances like that last week And that that is that is, if we are in a position where we are able to articulate, and Connor, you know, you do a fantastic job, and I mean people who are not ah football journalists and sports journalists for a living, if, you know, idiots like me and Pun are able to articulate, you know, a half side does this, Norwich play like this, ah, I think hope we sign him in the summer because he'll help the way we do this.
00:43:32
Speaker
if If that is clear enough for us to get, I think we will be so much further forward. um And so i yeah I agree that from a success point of view, that that's where we need to get to. and Let's have a guarantee for for Saturday, please. and So you know how it works, guaranteed score and a guaranteed scorer. Connor, as the guest, it's you first. ive I've said, I've said a tough start a few times. I think that I think they might lose Saturday, actually. um So I'm, I'm, I'm edging towards a two on the feet and I'm going to go Marcelino Nunez. It's the goal scorer. Oh, the best passer at the club. Okay. Uh, punt with a pass punt. Um, I think ay we will, we will draw one, one. And I think Shema Suav Poitheta might score a goal.
00:44:19
Speaker
Wow. Okay. ah If anyone had that in your sweepstake of guarantees, then and well done. Well, that would be interesting. We have had other interesting open opening day scores we've gone into. Didn't he score on his Norwich debut as well? Or am I going mad? ah He scored on his Birmingham debut alone, didn't he? Did he go, was it Birmingham he went online? I think he scored on his Norwich debut. He scored against Preston, didn't he? Two holes. He absolutely scuffed it into the corner for memory. So maybe he's got Pettidridge scoring on his debut. I want to look it up now. I'm not going to. Rather than record a podcast of three middle aged blokes looking up things on the internet. Connor's not middle aged by the way. Connor's a child. no you know i know As soon as I started saying, I just thought I can't lump him in with us. or i might be bit I might not to get morbid, but I might be middle aged. You don't know no goodness say but and So yes, tell us about your forum that's coming up, please, Connor, and any other activity because you have been peddling some lovely words and some lovely talk in over the summer, which I've certainly enjoyed imbibing. What's coming up in the world of Connor and the pink lads?
00:45:27
Speaker
Yes. Thank you very much. Yeah. Well, Thursday night I am as John beautifully referenced. I mean, he's basically done all my plugging for me really, but I'm hosting an event for the Canary's trust with Ben Nappa. So that's going to be nice. I think tickets are free. You can go to the Canary's trust channels and yeah, come and join us. I'm sure there'll be stuff ah or interesting stuff that we find to talk about. It's an interesting time of year. So um yeah. And obviously you can put your questions to him as well. It's a bit of a Q and a style, so I won't have to do all the work, which is good on that. And as for the pink and it's ah yeah back on the treadmill we'll call it with the the season you you get sort of Yeah, it's a bit of a treadmill. It's a press conference game press conference game. and it's It's a bit like that. and We love it So yeah, we'll be every game. I don't know if I'll be every game this year, but we'll be at every game
00:46:10
Speaker
I did every game last year, which was has aged me significantly. um So yeah, it's ah back to the back to the usual stuff. You have to go to a few games to catch up with punt. What time is the – what time are you leaving for Oxford Saturday? or we're we're very late to side us with that, but it's goingnna it's going to be early. it's' It's one of those awkward ones that's on the cusp of being an overnighter, but probably just the right side. So it's going to be, I think, about seven, probably. Hang on, what constitutes an overnighter for the Pinkham boys? Because Oxford's not far, is it? Vibes, isn't it?
00:46:43
Speaker
let's see if he but What the nightlife is like? To to to be to to be fair. ah yeah Spoons is legendary in the place we're playing. We look up local restaurants. If there's none, then it'll be a one day. But I think the fact this is midday probably makes it a little bit easier. but Well, to be fair, if it wasn't mid-day, it wouldn't be ah overnight. But um but yeah, that's ah it's different different remits, different time of the season, what the calendar's like. If you've got long away games coming up, or whatever, that might dictate it. So yeah, there's there's loads of different variants that go into it, but we don't think about it that much, really.
00:47:18
Speaker
OK, well, ah thank you so much for joining us, Connor, and giving you a pontification. I hope it really goes well at the forum and you get some really good interest in takes. Hopefully, you may be allude to um some incomings that we can get excited about. Punt, I acknowledge you exist, and I'm looking forward to another season of wittering on a load of old nonsense with you. ah Listener, whether or not you are enjoying the game on a big screen on Saturday or swearing at terrible performance on a dodgy stream, fine, there you go.